Here's 10 years of therapy summarized in
one minute. Number one, no one is coming
to save you. Being a functioning adult
means realizing you are responsible for
everything in your life, even if it
wasn't your fault. Number two, strong
boundaries make for good relationships.
Weak boundaries make drama. Number
three, many of your problems don't get
fixed. You just learn how to live
despite them. Number four, your mind
lies to you all the time. It will tell
you that the world is ending when it's
not. That a mistake is fatal when it's
not. That everyone is thinking about you
and laughing about you when they're not.
Learn how to tell your mind to shut the
[ __ ] up. Number five, stop trying to
convince people to like you. The right
people won't need to be convinced, and
everyone else is just going to get very
annoyed. Number six, sometimes the best
thing you can do is let a dream die. No
one likes to hear that, but it's true.
And number seven, only a few people in
your life are going to matter in the
long run. when you find them, treat them
right, make time for them, keep them
close, and be grateful.
>> You know, is sometimes when I when I put
together stuff like that, I I I'm
like hearing you read that back to me,
like the the thought that comes to mind
is like, how is this not taught in
schools? Like, how how are we just how
is this not just
>> discover this at 34,
>> right? Like, why why do people have to
listen to podcasts all day to like hear
some of this stuff? Um I I
it just seems so fundamental, you know,
but it it is interesting. One of the
things one of the things that
my perspective has shifted, you know,
I've been doing this for 17 years.
>> Too long. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. A long
time. Um,
and when I look at at things that I've
I've either changed my mind about or
changed my perspective on through over
the course of my career, I think one of
the big ones is that, you know, early in
my career, I I I really thought it was
all about just like ideas, information,
knowledge, right? It's like finding
there's like a few pieces of key
knowledge that if you can kind of figure
it out, if you can dig through enough
psych studies and find the application,
like it's just going to be a key that
unlocks all these areas of your life.
And I think if you are a consumer of
personal growth advice, like that the
experience you have often feels that
way.
>> But I don't think that's true. I think
actually what is true is that there are
just certain concepts, ideas,
um, principles that are
pretty obvious and we all kind of
already know them, but we we lose it's
it's extremely difficult to keep them in
front of our face y
>> through day-to-day life. And so we need
we need rituals and reminders
consistently. And I actually think that
for most of human history, I think
religion was that mechanism of those
reminders to like keep people like, hey,
nobody's like you're responsible for
this. Hey, treat people well. That
person matters, you know, like let go of
the the small stuff.
>> Um,
but I think in in our modern our modern
world, you know, it's people most people
are losing that. And so you're you're
almost seeing this like reinvention of
those rituals
online through like what you and I do
through podcasts and Instagram and
YouTube and all this stuff
>> of and and I do it as well, right? It's
like I've got my shows and and I've got
the channels I follow and the people I
follow and it's like they
it's it's not that any individual piece
of information is like changing my life,
unlocking this whole area of my life.
It's just like, oh yeah, it's a good
reminder.
>> That's so true. I think because the
modern world is filled with novelty,
anything that we've seen before, we
don't usually want to hear again. Yeah.
You think, "Well, I already know that."
Even if you don't, even if there's 10
things that you basically just need to
hear over and over again.
What you need to do, I think, is play
the game of novelty whilst just
redelivering the same core message. And
that's going to be anti-imetic and
wholly unimpressive to people. This is
the [ __ ] clean your room thing again.
This is the tell the truth thing again.
Oh, neediness is it? And you go, okay,
well, I can
lie to you and create this sort of
fugazi gaslight thing where I say this
new thing is the big unlock,
>> right?
>> Or I can just try to repackage stuff
that is the existing concept. So it
satisfies your desire for novelty and my
own desire for novelty whilst
reinforcing the principle that is most
accurate. And that's really I think what
a lot of the game is now. And you we
were talking before we got started. I
think that very very dense information
like consumption and overoptimization is
kind of dead in the water. And
the alternative is
reminding people stuff that they already
know in a manner that just you know how
the Ebing house forgetting curve works
like it's space repetition. It's why
flash cards and stuff work like that.
>> Um
>> basically you need that but with novelty
added in so that people are just
regularly reminded.
>> Oh yeah I I just need to like go for a
walk and sleep more.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh right. Yeah. I just I
probably need to say how I feel to my
partner when something upsets me.
>> I I've started one way I think about it
sometimes is that a lot of this advice
it's almost like having a fire
extinguisher in the room,
>> you know, like it's it's you've probably
had the experience where, you know,
maybe you read something
five years ago and you're like, "Yeah,
it's obvious. I I I know that." And then
something happens in your life, right?
It's like you get dumped or like
somebody dies or you move across the
world and you're like suddenly you're
like, "Oh my god, I need this so badly
that I did that."
>> Well, one of the most embarrassing
things is to realize that the problem
you're facing was solved by something
that you learned long ago.
>> Yes. But didn't appreciate.
>> And Yeah. And then and then have to now
go and relearn. Yeah. You're like,
"Fuck." or that you're now facing a
problem that you faced in the past and
that you not only learn something but a
specific type of pain that both me and
you do. You go, "Oh, I wrote about this.
>> I [ __ ] wrote this thing,
>> dude. Tell me about it. Tell me about
it."
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I I had uh speaking of like, you
know, ascending the mountain and
struggling to deal with fame, you know,
when my book took took off, um you know,
I went into a real identity crisis. I
think I've talked to you about this
before on the show, but you know, I had
that that first year or two when my book
was number one everywhere. It was like
just all these crazy things happening.
Um, I felt super disoriented and like
very lost and kind of went through a
little bit of a depression. Became like
>> I got everything I ever wanted and it
made me depressed.
>> Yeah, pretty much. And like massive
imposttor syndrome for for a period of
time and started started saying yes to a
bunch of things I didn't want to say yes
to. Right. And so then I ended up in
this situation where I'm like, I feel
trapped in my own career. I'm like
obligated to do all these things for
these people that I don't really want to
be doing. Um I'm like stressed all the
time. I'm anxious. My health's going to
[ __ ] And and it it's
>> I'm fat.
>> And I'm fat on top of everything else.
Uh
just to add insult to injury.
>> [ __ ] fat. And uh
and it's so funny cuz I I remember um
when I was doing my film um you know it
was that we were doing a film on the
subtle not giving a [ __ ] and I hadn't
really read the book since I wrote it
and um so I went back I'm like well I
should probably read my book again. So,
I went back and I read, this was like
2018, 2019. I went back and it was like
all the [ __ ] I just I've been spending
the last two years dealing with. It was
like in my own book and I'm like, I'm
I'm [ __ ] all of this up. I'm like,
I'm saying yes to things that I don't
care about. I'm like overloading my life
with all these distractions. I'm like
not standing up for myself. I've like
lost clarity on what I value. Like just
like chapter by chapter by chapter, I'm
choosing the wrong struggles. And I I
just I
>> It was rough. It was really rough. I
like I had to really have like a a
heart-to-heart with myself of like,
dude, what get it together, man.
>> Yeah, it's like it's like personal
growth groundhog day where
uh one thing that I think is is kind of
important. I I understand how you can
say, hey, look, there's a small bucket
of principles, overoptimization,
thinking about your life too much, all
of these things like they you're
majoring in the minors, etc., etc. Mhm.
>> That is true once you've been through
it.
>> Yes. It is not true before you've been
through it.
>> Breaking the rules of the game before
you've learned how to play the game is
not breaking the rules of the game and
being an innovator or being some
essentialized distiller of cool stuff.
>> It's playing a different game. And this
is why I highly recommend that people
become totally obsessed with personal
development and productivity and David
Allen's Getting Things Done and James
Clear's Atomic Habits and Morgan's The
Psychology of Money and The Subtle Art
of Not Giving a [ __ ] for like probably
between
three and six years. And then once
you've done that, you can sort of get
your black belt, put it on, and go,
"Okay, yeah, 95% of that was packaging.
Here are the bits that really matter,
and I'm now going to spend the rest of
time trying to just maintain that
momentum and not over complicate stuff."
And maybe once a year there'll be a
novel insight which is genuinely
principled and fundamental that I just
didn't know yet. But you can't get to
that level without having gone through
the first bit. And maybe it's just the
case that the world of everybody went
through the same holy [ __ ] like this is
novel, but talking about like choosing
your struggles appropriately or even
neediness and stuff like that. That was
novel when it happened, but that area of
cognitive real estate, that territory's
now been, you know, when you play a a
video game and the map's all fogged out.
>> Yeah. And then after you've played it
for a while, the areas get opened up.
It's like, well, that area is opened up
now. So assuming that you've gone
through this process. Previously, it was
kind of like um uh humans were moving at
the same level that technology
developed.
>> Yeah.
>> But if you start doing personal
development now, there's so much
technology that you can speedrun all the
way up to the top. Whereas for us, it's
like, wow, telling the truth is
something this is revolutionary. Not
that I've just discovered it, but it's
just been said.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. This is this is groundbreaking
research, but because there's so much to
go through and maybe it's just the case
that the era that we're in had a
formative hockey curve like J-shaped
thing where wow, there's a [ __ ] ton
of insight that's repackaged ancient
wisdom for a secular world that's
distilled down into good language that's
memorable.
>> I should I'm learning this as it goes
and a new book and a new book and a new
book. Now we're at the stage where much
of that territory that's important has
been captured.
>> Yes.
>> And now because everybody kind of
started the race whether you were but 18
or 28 or 48 everybody started it kind of
at the same time and Peterson comes
along and you and James D and you go oh
wow like that's that's now all been
done. Everybody has a degree of personal
development fatigue, but that's not true
if you're starting your journey. If
you're like, "Hey, I'm I'm a fat piece
of [ __ ] and I'm 25 and I've never done
any of this." It's like lock in for the
next 6 years.
>> Yes,
>> absolutely. And then and then it is very
much after that is it is just about
maintaining the practice.
>> Correct.
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