Today's guest is an expert on nutrition,
longevity, and preventing deadly
diseases.
>> If we compare men 50 years ago to men
now, they have 50% lower sperm count and
they have up to 30% lower testosterone
levels.
>> Early in her research career, she
discovered she carries a gene that
triples her risk of Alzheimer's,
sparking an obsession with how genetics,
diet, and chemicals decide how fast we
age and how soon we die. 100% of the
semen samples from the men had
microplastics in them. They're in the
kidneys, they're in liver, they're in
the heart, they're in the brain, they're
in the testicles, they're everywhere.
>> Now, she's the go-to scientist Joe Rogan
Huberman and half of Silicon Valley call
when they want to know what's actually
going to make them live longer.
>> Your body is really resilient. You just
have to give it the right tools and do
the right things to make it resilient.
>> In this episode, we'll expose the
chemicals quietly castrating American
men. Explore why testosterone and sperm
counts are collapsing and investigate
whether the modern world is genuinely
poisoning us or the problem is the
choices we make every single day. Do you
fear that your grandkids will be
infertile?
>> I don't know that I necessarily fear
that they're going to be infertile, but
I kind of do.
>> Dr. Rhonda Patrick, welcome to the Jack
Neil podcast.
>> Nice to be here. Thank you so much.
>> Yeah, it's great having you here. Um, a
good place to start, Rhonda, the data on
Gen Z men is pretty terrifying. Uh, and
before we get into what are the actual
habits and factors causing the decline
in young men's health, I want to
understand some of the statistics. So,
biologically speaking, do you think
we're raising the least masculine
generation of men?
Well, I mean, masculinity obviously
encompasses a lot of things,
psychological factors. If we're just
looking at pure biology, if we're
looking at hormones, testosterone,
you know, we're looking at fertility,
sperm production, I would say those end
points do not look good. So if we
compare men 50 years ago to men now,
generally on average they have 50% lower
sperm count than men 50 years ago and
they have up to 30% lower testosterone
levels than men 40 to 50 years ago. That
to me is concerning.
And like I said, I don't know that
that's the definition of masculinity,
but certainly um when it comes to
biology, it's an important factor. And I
guess um on the sperm count portion, you
said sperm counts are down 50% over the
last 50 years.
In 2024, researchers, they were studying
dogs and they found microlastics in 100%
of the testicles that they tested.
Then they thought, well, if it's in
dogs, it's probably in men as well. Did
they find microplastics in men's
testicles?
>> There have been a couple of studies. is
one study out of China in 2024
that sampled I think it was around 40
men and 100% of the semen samples from
the men had microplastics in them. There
was another study that was a little bit
smaller in the US and that was biopsies
of of testicles. For whatever reason,
men were going in and getting a biopsy
and 100% of those samples of the
testicles uh also had microplastics in
them. So, so microplastics are making
their way to reproductive organs.
They're making their way they're in
they're being incorporated into sperm
and semen and they're affecting the
structure, the function, the number of
sperm in in men. So, it's it is a bit of
a problem. I guess just gut instinct
when you hear there's microplastics in
mensemen is like that's probably not
good but like why is it actually bad?
So like I mentioned um microplastics
themselves are disrupting you know the
the function of sperm. They're
disrupting the shape of them. Um, I
mean, if you can imagine a tiny tiny
little plastic fragment, um, it's
probably not going to be a good thing
for what's called the morphology, the
shape of the sperm, the motility, it's
able ability ability to move, which you
need uh for a sperm to meet an egg,
right? It needs to be able to move a
long distance and do it well. Um, it
also isn't good for making sperm. So the
plastics themselves are disrupting sperm
function, disrupting sperm production,
but the chemicals that are in those
microplastics are probably what I think
is even more concerning when it comes to
affecting sperm. So these are chemicals
that many people have probably heard of.
For example, bisphenols, bisphenol, a
BPA or the replacement. I do quotes
because you'll see oftentimes different
products marketed as BPA free and you
might think, "Oh, this is healthier."
Turns out it's just replaced with
another type of bisphenol, BPS, which is
as dangerous, if not more, than BPA.
Another very dangerous plastic chemical
is phalates, phth, you know. So, L a
t-salates.
Um, these chemicals are what are known
as endocrine disrupting chemicals, EDCs.
Endocrine disrupting chemicals.
Sometimes they're called endocrine
disrupting hormones. They are disrupting
hormones including testosterone
by a variety of ways. One, they can
mimic hormones. Um, two, they can
disrupt the ability of hormones to
function. So, hormones have to bind to
receptors and they will block that from
happening. And three, they can actually
disrupt the actual production of the
hormones. So they can do any or all of
these. And what happens is things like
BPA and phalates are in everything and
we can talk about this from our water to
our food to the air we breathe
everything. And when they make their way
into things like you know semen and
other organs, um they are they are
disrupting testosterone. There's studies
showing for example men with the highest
levels of phalates. So phalates are
something that you'll find in foods that
have been packaged in plastic. They're
found in just our personal hygiene
products. Everything from shaving cream,
lotions, shampoos, like all that stuff.
Okay. So men that have the highest level
of phalates have 20% lower testosterone
level than men with the lowest level of
phalates. And then BPA also has been
shown to affect sperm. And when when I
say testosterone, testosterone is very
important to make sperm, right? So when
you lower testosterone, it's going to
have the downstream effect of also
lowering your sperm count, right? So
these things are very related. And so I
think those are two big problems when it
comes to your question was how are
microplastics disrupting, you know,
sperm production? And it's the plastics
themselves and it's the chemicals that
come along with them. And I guess too,
is it possible that men are passing
microplastics to women through sex?
>> Well, microplastics are in semen and so,
you know, that is getting obviously
passed along to women. But there's no
evidence that that's being like absorbed
into women and getting into their
circulation. And that's the real concern
is like when you're actually just
ingesting them, it gets into your
circulation getting into other organs.
What is happening though is that when
when the semen you know when the sperm
is you know meeting an egg like you have
those classic and those chemicals there
right so it is disrupting one you know
you might not even get a fertile embryo
like all that the whole process of
reproduction is has been shown to be
impaired by microplastics so it's not
necessarily like the concern I have for
women's exposure to them it's the food
and everything and the water and the air
we're breathing all that stuff that's
their big concern but Um there's no real
study that has looked at oh what are the
consequences and there's not a study
that I've seen that's looked at that
>> and presumably women would also have
these microplastics and perhaps they're
I don't know the exact term but like
ovarian fluids like perhaps
>> they're in ovaries um the microplastics
have been found in almost every single
organ in the human body from ovaries
they get to the placenta they're in the
kidneys they're in liver they're in the
heart they're in the brain they're in
testicles they're everywhere they're in
they're in all of our organs. It's it's
a it's a concern. Um and it's just it's
a ubiquitous problem because plastics
are everywhere and we we don't see these
microplastics and nanoplastics. We
don't, you know, really see the
chemicals, but but they're there and
we're breathing them in and we're
ingesting them and they're getting into
our body and they're sort of doing this
insidious damage over time, right? That
something that you can't look in the
mirror and see, but it's going on inside
your body and that's what makes it so
insidious. It's, you know, it's
accumulating with time and you don't
really know what's happening.
>> Outside of the plastics, uh, and the
chemicals that they're passing along,
are there other things destroying men's
fertility right now? Random question
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code Jack Neil. But anyway, guys, back
to the podcast. Are there other things
destroying men's fertility right now?
Yeah, I think there's a lot of things
that have been evidence-based to be
shown to disrupt, you know, testosterone
levels and also sperm production and
sperm function. I would say aside from
endocrine disrupting chemicals of which
we've talked about plastic chemicals,
there's also another category which
would be the insecticides, pesticides.
These are things that are sprayed onto
our crops um so that we can grow large
amounts of food to feed a big population
of people. So the one that's probably
the most associated with lowering sperm
number is what what's officially called
Roundup um glyphosate. So these organo
phosphates are have been shown in
multiple studies to be um disrupting
hormone production and sperm production
as well. But aside from that, so those
are the endocrine disrupting chemicals.
Obesity. Obesity is a big factor and the
numbers are quite staggering in terms of
how much obesity rates have risen over
the past, you know, 50 years, 60 years.
And so if you if you look between 1990
and 2021, obesity rates in children and
adolescence have dramatically grown. So
in children, obesity rates have risen by
about 40%
since 1990. And for adolescents in boys
it's about it rose about 46% and in
girls about 50%. So you know obesity is
now a big problem starting in childhood
not in like your 40s or 50s right
obesity
causes damage to sperm in many many
ways. one it's you hor it's creating
hormones things like estrogen that are
disrupting you know sperm production
testosterone production all these
feedback loops that happen inflammation
oxidative stress these things also
damage sperm DNA there's a lot of heat
that's generated too in the in the
scrotum area and that's also a problem
um so I would say obesity is another
major major player in this story in
terms of of you know sperm sperm count
and quality going down over the last you
know few decades and the other thing
would also be I do mention heat
exposure. So doing I've talked a lot
about the benefits of deliberate heat
exposure like using a sauna or a hot
tub. That is something that does tank
sperm number and also their their
structure and motility. Um because in
order to make sperm you have to have a
lower temperature in that scrotum area
than it has to be lower than your core
body temperature. And when that switch
gets flipped um you start to basically
you're not making as many sperm. But it
is reversible. It goes back to normal
once you take away the heat stress after
about 2 to 3 months. And studies have
shown that as well. Also, another factor
I think unfortunately is exogenous
anabolic steroid use, you know. So,
people that are using exogenous
testosterone, anabolic steroids, um, men
that are using that, that also, as you
I'm sure know, tanks your production of
testosterone in the testes, your natural
production, your indogenous production
of it. It can be reversible. Um, it's
not always. So, unfortunately, like some
men that are using it, they may not ever
have normal sperm production again, um,
their sperm may not be as good quality.
So, while you might hear that it is a
reversible phenomena, it may not always
be. And I think that's also a part of
the story because, you know, younger
people are using exogenous, you know,
hormones and steroids. And so, something
to consider as well. Um, so those are
some of the factors, you know, that I
think are are playing a role. A big one
really is the endocrine disrupting
chemicals and the obesity. I think those
are the two top top things that are
playing a role.
>> That's interesting because I mean
there's been a rise in I'm sure you've
seen it uh online this trend of looks
maxing and a big part of it that's being
discussed is the usage of TRT and
peptides. And I've sat down with a few
of these guys on the podcast and I asked
them like, "Do you are you currently
infertile?" And they're like, "Yes." And
I'm like, "Do you have like a problem
with that?" And they're just like,
"Well, it's temporary." Is that accurate
that it's just temporary until they get
off of the dosages they're doing or
what's like the real science there?
>> I think the real science is it could be
temporary, but it's like it's like a
Russian roulette. Are you going to be
the one that it's not? also like what
dose are you doing? How long are you
doing it for? Like there's a lot of
factors that play into that it's
temporary
>> answer. And if you don't know all the
factors that are important for it to
just be temporary like maybe you only
can be doing it for like a few months if
you do it. I mean there's there's and
then what dose you're doing, right? So
like those things need to be part of the
equation if you don't want it to be a
permanent thing. And again, people are
different. People respond to to drugs
differently. They respond to diet
differently. They respond to vitamins
differently. Right? So keep that in mind
as well. Like this this is you are
taking a chance here with your future
fertility if you are going to be doing
this looks maxing which I mean don't do
it. That's ridiculous honestly. You know
like if you're a young guy first of all
if you're a young guy your testosterone
should be fine. It should be good. And
there are things that you can do and we
can talk about that to to kind of help
optimize that to the degree that's like
normal.
>> Um, like why why do you have to start
taking testosterone? Like you want to
get cut, you want to like I I don't
know, you know, it's it's it is there
there could be a pretty significant
trade-off. And if you think just because
you read online that it's temporary,
again, like it's not always, you know,
so are you going to be the person that
it's temporary or are you going to be
one that's not temporary? We'll uh
discuss later in this interview some of
your uh remedies and recommendations for
like boosting testosterone with what
we're given. But um yeah, it is really
fascinating because I mean their
argument is we can't even reproduce to
begin with unless we look good. And we
there's so many different chemical
disruptors to make our testosterone uh
low that we might as well go on peptides
TRT to uh look more masculine, you know.
But, uh, I do want to ask, since the
average 18-year-old today has the
testosterone of a 60-year-old man in the
1980s,
why do young men today have such low
testosterone levels? And what are the
stats there? And maybe what are some of
the things that don't apply to sperm
count that apply to this?
>> I do think the same things that are
causing the sperm to go down are the
same things causing testosterone to go
down in in that. I think one of the
major drivers is in particular I think
it's it's the phalates in these plastics
that are being ingested and um I say
that because you know there's even
evidence that a pregnant woman when
she's pregnant and she's exposed to
phalates whether it's from her lotions
and creams or she's eating you know
foods almost all like you go to the
butcher and you get meat and it's like
plastic's like around it like it's
vacuum sealed And you can't escape it.
Like it's everywhere. It's in your food.
It's on top of our vegetables. You you
know like so um you you know women that
have higher levels of those phalates
while they're pregnant, the phalates are
getting across the placenta and they're
going into the developing fetus and into
the testes and they're disrupting
testosterone production early early in
development and that's affecting the
sexual development of men. So it's
causing what's called hypospadia. Do you
know what that is? where like the
urethra slit on a on a on a man's like
penis is like further back. Um so it's
kind of like it's not it's it's
basically not, you know, up front
enough. So it affects it affects the
ability of sperm to like be able to like
be shot out and go like it's going to
affect future fertility basically. Um
the other thing it's doing is it's
causing unescended testicles which is
now pretty common in boys. That also
affects um fertility as well as
testosterone production. What are un
just
>> so basically your testicles um you know
unescended means they're not coming down
so one of them will like kind of stay up
and when that happens it's inside uh
it's inside more and so it's it's being
exposed to a higher temperature instead
of coming down where it's cooler and so
if that doesn't get corrected and even
if it does get corrected there still
could be some loss in you know
testosterone production and fertility.
So all this is to say that e that the
the phalates and these plastic chemicals
are affecting testosterone starting
early in life. they continue they
continue on and so men that are being
exposed to it I already cited this study
you know these men with higher phalate
levels have 20% lower testosterone and
this is like a big wide raging you know
and age range study young men old men
across the board it's affecting everyone
you know even young men so um that's
another thing that I again I think these
plastic chemicals are really big you
know play a really big role in that the
other thing that also people
underestimate is sleep. And I know a lot
a lot of young people, you know, I mean,
they they're night owls. They stay up.
They're they want to work. They want to
be efficient, productive, maybe they
party, all the above. And so, they're
not getting the at least seven hours of
quality sleep per night, which is really
the minimum of what you need. There was
a study showing that young men, these
were college students that that got 5
hours of sleep for a week, their
testosterone levels like dropped by like
15%. You know, after one week. So,
prioritizing sleep like I think people
are not getting enough sleep. That's
also playing a role. Refined sugar and
ultrarocessed foods is another thing
that's playing a role in decreasing
testosterone levels. So, again, this
comes back to and it's all tangled in
with the obesity equation, right? Okay?
Like cuz when you're eating a lot of
ultrarocessed foods and a lot of refined
sugars, it leads to obesity, right? So
there was um a study looking at young
men given a really large bolus of of
sugar, refined like added sugar, 75
grams. It's kind of like donut and a
Coke or Big Mac and a Coke or something
like there a lot a lot of sugar, right?
But it it tanked their testosterone by
like 20% like within a couple of hours.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Just one dosage.
>> Just one dose. Now it goes back up, but
like okay, you're eating sugar
throughout the day all day every day,
right? Like it's gonna start to
>> adjust your baseline. Yeah.
>> Right. That's going to be your new
baseline. It's going to be lower. You're
going to have lower testosterone levels.
Right. So I think that's another and I'm
now rattling off things that are
contributing. I think again a really big
factor here is unfortunately the
endocrine disrupting chemicals and at
the top of the list phalates and BPA.
But um you know there's the obesity
equation also plays a role in
testosterone. And then you know the
sleep and the refined sugar are pretty
big ones as well. And those are some of
the main I'd say lifestyle factors that
are I think playing a role in people
having in men having lower testosterone.
>> H I've heard you talk about grip
strength before. Uh like what can you
tell about a person by their grip
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But anyway, guys, back to the podcast.
What can you tell about a person by
their grip strength? Why is that such an
important indicator? Yeah. I mean, so I
mean, testosterone is doing a lot, it's
a hormone in men and it does a lot of
things and one of it things that it's
important is in muscle muscle mass and
muscle strength, right? Grip strength is
often a proxy for your overall muscle
strength in other parts of the body as
well. And um, interestingly, it's also
used as a way to gauge whether or not
like you're going to have functional
independence as you age. So you can do
you can do everyday activities without
needing help, right? So it's an
important marker of like functional
independence. And then also some studies
have looked at grip strength as a proxy
for your overall mortality. In fact,
there was one study, a large study that
was done that showed people with the
lowest grip strength had a 70% higher
all cause mortality than people with a
higher grip strength. So again going
back to that like functional
independence, overall muscle strength,
the grip strength is used as a marker
for your overall health status and even
can predict, you know, somewhat like if
you're going to die early.
>> Studies show that young men today have
significantly weaker grip strength than
the same age group did decades ago. Uh
like is this the statistically weakest
generation of men today? And what are
the stats on that?
Yeah, it's an interesting question
because,
you know, decades ago
men were doing a lot more with their
hands, you know, they were they were
carrying things more, right? So, you're
you're walking places, you're carrying
groceries. Now, we have grocery carts.
Now, we have Instacart. You don't even
have to get off your couch. We used to
carry men used to carry babies and kids
before all these strollers. I mean
tools, water, you know, we used to do
that. We used to practice that grip
strength, right? A lot of times carrying
things, physical labor. I mean, if you
look at if you look at the I would say
private sector because the military
you're still doing a lot of physical
type of labor, right? But the private
sector back in like the 1950s
over 50% of jobs were required manual
physical labor like you were physically
doing things. Now in 2026, it's like
less than 20%. So we have created this
environment for men and women that is
it's basically facilitated our not
having to get up and do any work right
we sit in front of a screen we you know
we're at our computer we're sitting down
most of the day we're not walking around
I mean you know decades ago men were
walking to work they were walking to the
store they were moving around all day
they were doing short bouts of what I
called exercise snacks just you you
know, naturally throughout their life
and, you know, they were carrying wood
and and they were doing farming and
doing things around the house and so
like they just were constantly moving
and we don't do that now. And I think
now we have like we've we we have to,
you know, go to the gym to get that sort
of physical activity that men used to
get throughout the day. And if you're
not going to the gym, which a large
percentage of men and women don't, then
you are going to have a weaker grip
strength. you're going to have you're
going to have overall lower muscle mass,
overall lower muscle strength because
you're not using your muscles. You have
to use your muscles. Um, and so you can
recreate some of that. I mean, you
should be doing resistance training at
minimum twice, two to four times a week,
things like deadlifts, right? I mean,
farmer carry, like you want to do hangs,
like you want to you want to work that
grip strength like you would be carrying
something, right? Rocking. Um, you want
to also get your aerobic exercise, like
you want to walk around, particularly
after meals. I would say do exercise
snacks. You get up and do some body
weight squats. I mean, there's studies
showing that you do 10 body weight
squats every 45 minutes throughout like
a 7-hour work day. And that's better at
improving your glucose regulation than
going on a 30-minute walk. So, get up
and do 10 body. Like, how easy is that?
You know,
>> right? That's much easier than a walk.
Why? Why is that? because you're you're
doing you're putting more stress. It's
more of a vigorous type of exercise. And
when that happens, you produce your body
produces something called lactate. And
lactate causes these transporters on
your muscle to bring the glucose in
better.
>> That's one of the reasons why. So, so
doing something more like doing a quick
exercise snack like a one minute, two
minute like sprint up the stairs is like
better than going for like a longer
walk. And so that's again there's this
whole like vigorous exercise is is
really underappreciated in terms of its
metabolic not only metabolic benefits
particularly metabolic but also brain
overall mortality like there's so many
things and it's like you can be more
efficient. You just have to like the
whole thing is like exercise is good
because you're stressing your body and
so the stronger the stressor which is
the case when you're doing something
more vigorous whether it's body
weightight squats, weighted squats, you
know, versus walking the adaptations
that your body has to deal with that
stress is what's the benefit, right? So
your body is like, "Oh my gosh, this is
like stressful. I mean, my my lungs are
like mo like working hard. My heart's
working hard. My muscles are working
hard. I better like get those things
stronger so that the next time I see
this kind of stress, I'm better at
dealing with it, right? So those are the
adaptations and I that's a very general
way of explaining it. But the whole
point is that it's like the stress is
stronger, therefore the adaptations are
better and that's why when you go a
little bit harder, you're going to have
a better effect.
>> So I'm guessing you're not the biggest
fan of like slow long cardio in
comparison to short bouts like a HIT
workout.
>> I mean walking is better than sitting,
right? But like the really low intensity
kind of stuff, like if you're jogging,
if you're doing that kind of cardio, I
think that's considered more vigorous.
Like because you're you're jogging,
that's that is still like a pretty
strong stress. It's the walking, the
10,000 steps. I'm like, okay, the 10,000
steps is better than no steps. It's
better than sitting. Okay, I'll I'll say
that. But if we're going to like if
we're going to aim to achieve something,
why don't we try to like go for the
right thing, right? I would say 10
minutes of a vigorous intensity workout
is better than 10,000 steps.
>> Data data is clear
>> if you don't feel it like it's probably
not working that well.
>> It Yeah. And you feel it after 10
minutes of like a hit workout. You'll
feel you'll feel great. You'll be
smarter. And there's studies showing it
too. H.
>> So, I mean, all this is to say that
men, you know, 50, 60 years ago, they
were doing they were getting resistance
training, like a low grade of it
throughout the day, every day, right?
And so, that's probably why their grip
strength was stronger because now in
order to have a grip strength, you have
to work it. Like, you have to we've
engineered this problem where we need to
go to the gym, we need to do deadlifts,
we need to do hang, right? We need to
hang, we need to like do pull-ups,
chin-ups, whatever. Um but but men
didn't have to do that like 50 years
ago. They were doing it. They were
carrying stuff. They were they were
doing it throughout.
>> They literally didn't go to the gym.
That's like a new modern invention.
>> They didn't have to they didn't have to
go to the gym. Like we we've now created
this environment where we don't have to
move. Like we work from home. We can
order our food that's delivered to us. I
mean you literally don't have to move.
Like you could pro I'm sure someone on
YouTube's going to do this experiment
where they're like I'm just going to sit
I'm literally going to be bed rest and
just sit and like have everything just
delivered to me because that's that's
how life is now. We have we have made it
where things are a lot easier luxuries
whatever. But at the end of the day we
also have these new problems where we
have to like go out and move because
it's so important for our health.
>> And then on the I've heard this study
reference before. I can't remember if
it's you that had said it, but it's
something along the lines of the amount
of skeletal muscle in someone's body is
a good determinant for like all cause
mortality. Is there something along
those lines?
>> Yeah, muscle mass also is very important
for looking at all cause mortality. Mass
and strength both, right? And so, you
know, there's some studies that that
will show the more muscle mass you have,
I mean, you could have up to an 80 70 to
80% lower all cause mortality. And and
that really does have to do with
protecting against frailty, right? I
mean, because when you once you are
frail, it's like the start of the
decline. And anyone that has an older
grandparent or great-grandparent or, you
know, parent, you've probably seen that
where it's like one fall and then it's
just spiral down, right? Spiral down.
And so, more muscle mass, you know, more
muscle strength, you're going to be less
likely to fall. You're going to be less
you're going to be more independent.
you're going to be less frail and so and
so you're going to you're going to you
know be be more robust as you you know
charge through the through the last
decade of your life. So muscle mass is
very important and so is strength and
they do decline with age you know
especially as you start to hit older age
like 65 really starts to accelerate. So
the more you can bank into your muscle
mass and strength earlier the better
because then you're going to be pulling
from it anyways. you might as well bank
as much as you can so that you you know
>> and the easiest time to build it is I
don't know ages 16 to 30 I or ages 16 to
25 I'm guessing uh and it's actually
pretty resilient like how much you can
hold the mass I think they did a study
it was like they took athletes who had a
physique and had them only work out once
a week and they were able to maintain it
pretty well
>> so that age range you do like peak
muscle mass is happening and it is
easier to gain muscle mass and you can
get away with more.
>> So, yes, that is that's a true
statement. But I don't want to I don't
want to ignore the fact that you can you
can still add muscle
>> at any age, right?
>> And even more strength. Like there was a
study in 90year-olds where you can
actually add muscle strength better than
muscle mass. um the study in
90-year-olds where they were doing
resistance training I don't remember how
many times a week but they were able to
increase their strength by like 90%.
>> And this was after just like a couple of
weeks. So that's like I mean incredible
right for someone that's 90. It's never
too late. If you're listening to this
show and you're you know in your 20s
like yeah get after it like this is the
time like this is like it's it's going
to be the best and easiest right now.
Um, but but don't be discouraged like as
you hit 30, 35, 40, you can still do it.
And I'm still gaining muscle mass and
strength and um so
>> as far as cancer, uh cancer in people
under 50 is rising every year. Colon
cancer in young men, uh breast cancer in
young women. Why would we be getting
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But anyway, back to the podcast. Why
would we be getting cancer younger now
than before?
>> Yes, cancer, boys. It's scary. Like,
it's the one it's the it's the it's the
disease that you really want to try and
prevent as much as you can because once
you have it, it's particularly because
it's usually caught later. You don't
know you have it. It's one of those
things where they're just growing inside
you. So this cancer in at a at a younger
age I have a lot of
ideas why I think cancer is happening
you know earlier and in younger people
and I think they're pretty
evidence-based. I'm going to I'm going
to go back to the obesity
you know answer because again you know
children are are obese adolescence are
obese. talking about, you know, 40% of
children or no for there an increase 40%
over, you know, back in like the 1990s.
So, you're having inflammation and
you're having, you know, oxidative
stress and all these things that are
causing cancer happening not in your 40s
or 50s now are happening when you're a
child. Um, obesity is associated with 13
different types of cancer and 40% of all
new cancer diagnoses in the United
States each year are attributed to
obesity. That's like half like half of
all of cancers right now are attributed
to being obese. That's a lot. So when
you think about obesity um happening now
in children what's happening is your the
inflammation and the oxidative stress
what that means is it's able to damage
your DNA and for the most part cancer is
an age- related disease there are some
genetics that can lead to childhood
cancers but by and large cancer hits at
like 50 60 70 80 right like it's an a
it's an age- related disease that's most
of the time when you're getting cancer
except for now it's happening in our 50s
um and that is because you know you get
damage and it happens but it might not
be in the right part of a gene that can
cause cancer. So it's kind of a
statistics game. It happens and then as
it keeps happening year after year after
year after year after day after day
after day, right? Eventually it's going
to happen in the right part of the
genome where a cancer cell crops up. And
even then when it's one cancer cell, not
a big problem because we have our first
line of defense which is our immune
system. Our immune system recognizes
this cell. Hey, this is not a normal
cell and it kills it. M
>> the problem is is that obesity what
happens is not only does it increase the
things that damage and initiate the
cancer it it increases growth factors
like insulin IGF-1 hormones estrogen you
know this is very obviously relevant for
breast cancer um these growth factors
and hormones allow cancer cells to
survive even when they otherwise maybe
would die and obesity suppresses the
immune system. So what you have going on
here is like the perfect storm for
cancer and it's starting earlier in life
right and that eventually that perfect
storm one of those tumor cells is going
to slip through it's going to make it
it's going to survive and then it
divides and it makes two more and those
two divide and it's exponential growth
and then you get you know over five six
years you have you have you know a
breast tumor you have a colon cancer
tumor so obesity I think is is a big big
driver of why younger people are getting
cancer Now the other thing is diet and
it's also very diet and obesity are very
much intertwined right because you can
eat a very poor diet and it can lead to
obesity. So diet ultrarocessed foods
high refined sugar you know added sugar
foods these these types of foods are
also playing a role in colon cancer in
particular. Um, so you know there are
studies showing things like if you're
eating processed meats, there's things
in meats, nitrites that can form
nitrosamines. They damage colon cells
and you know they're carcinogenic
basically. If you're, you know, eating
all these ultra processed foods which
takes away the fiber. So the food
matrix, if you're eating a whole food,
you know, even if it's like cheese, like
when you think of fiber, you always
think of like vegetables, but like food
matrix is in whole foods. And young
people are not eating enough of fruits
and vegetables. They're not eating
enough whole grains like quinoa,
amarith, buckwheat, you know that oats.
Um 95% of Americans don't meet like the
fiber intake, which is like it's like 14
grams per thousand calories you take in.
Why is that important? Why is fiber
important? It's probably one of there's
pro it's probably one of one of the most
wellstudied macronutrients in terms of
preventing colon cancer. There's so much
evidence like you can't ignore it. Um,
fiber does a lot of things. One, it
moves stuff through you quicker. So,
when you have chemicals in your food
like nitrites or heteroscyclic amines,
like those are found in meats that are
charred. So, if you char booral your
meat and that blackened taste, you know,
that some people like, there's something
in that called heteroscyclic amines,
which are carcinogenic. When you eat
that food, it sits in your gut. When it
sits in your gut in the colon, it
damages it. it can cause that mutation
that can lead to cancer, right? Fiber
moves stuff through you quicker. So,
it's not sitting around in your gut and
like being able to damage those cells.
It's getting it out. It's like in and
out, in out, right? The other thing is
there's different types of fiber. So,
there's insoluble fiber, which is moving
it through you, and then there's soluble
fiber or what's now called fermentable
fiber. That type of fiber is it's
basically fuel for the gut bacteria in
your colon, the gut microbiome. A lot of
beneficial bacteria will eat that
soluble fiber and they form a viscous
like coating around the gut. It prevents
those chemicals. It's like a barrier.
It's like a wall. It's preventing the
chemicals from being able to physically
damage your colon cells. The other thing
it does is it prevents your colon from
being able to absorb microplastics and
nanoplastics. Fiber is one of the best
defenses we have against absorbing both
microplastics and nanoplastics. So, it's
really um important for helping us
prevent a lot of the damage that's being
done by these toxins, these chemicals,
whether it's plastics or, you know, some
of these things that are in our
ultrarocessed foods from damaging our
colon. And so, I think that diet also is
a really important factor here. Alcohol
is another one, especially when it comes
to um breast cancer and also colon
cancer, but but breast cancer in
particular. So a woman's lifetime risk
for breast cancer on average is one in
eight. So if you have eight women in a
room, one of those women is going to be
diagnosed with breast cancer within her
lifetime.
>> If you add obesity into the mix, that's
going to increase the chances to like
one in six. You add in alcohol, you're
going even up, right? So all these
factors, they compound, you know, and
you if you start out with a one in eight
chance, like by golly, you better be
doing everything you can to lower your
breast cancer risk, not increase it. And
so obesity, losing weight is the biggest
thing. You know, not consuming a lot of
alcohol also really, really important
when it comes to lowering your risk for
breast cancer. So I think those are
three important I would say diet,
lifestyle factors that are playing a
role in younger people getting cancer
earlier and earlier.
>> You said increasing fiber leads to you
being more resilient against uh some of
these different toxins going in your
body. like what are the main I guess
foods that people are not eating to have
proper fiber intake and then how much
fiber should they be getting?
>> Fiber
again there's multiple types of it. So
if you're just wanting the kind of
insoluble fiber that moves stuff through
you quickly which does also play a role
in preventing your body from absorbing
plastics but also you know chemicals
from being able to damage your colon
that's found in like every fruit and
vegetable and whole grain. Okay. I would
say fruit and vegetables are great.
Whole grains are like oats really really
good. The the the fermentable fiber is
really something unique to fruit. Skins
of berries, um mushrooms,
onions, artichokes, oats,
resistant starch like green bananas or
potatoes that are cooked and then
cooled. This is like you're getting this
fermentable type of fiber that is a very
different type of than just the move
stuff through you make you poop kind of
fiber, right? This is the stuff that's
feeding the gut bacteria and making that
gel, that viscous gel. And so you want
to you want to be eating berries, you
want to be eating mushrooms, you want to
be eating like artichoke or onion,
garlic, you want to be eating m um oats,
you want to quinoa, you know, like those
sorts of things have the fermentable
type of fiber. You know, the other thing
that that's doing is when the gut
bacteria are eating, I say eating,
they're fermenting it, right? Not only
is it making a viscous, you know,
barrier in your gut, it these these
bacteria are like little chemical
factories or like little pharmaceutical
factories inside your gut and they're
making compounds called shortchain fatty
acids. Things like butyrate, things like
acetate, propionate. These things are
getting into your circulation and they
are acting as signaling molecules to the
rest of your body. It's a way it's a way
for the bacteria in your gut. It's so
interesting like these bacteria in your
gut can communicate with other organs in
your body including the immune cells.
And so what happens is when your when
the gut is is fermenting these and
making these short- chain fatty acids,
it's causing your immune cells to make a
very specific type um of immune cells.
First, it's causing them to make T-
regulatory cells. These are cells that
are very important for preventing
autoimmune disease. You know, preventing
your your body from attacking its own
tissue. And the other thing they're
doing is it's causing your immune system
to make cytotoxic tea lymphosytes. These
are killing cancer cells. So again,
fiber is at this is at the core for
helping you prevent colon cancer. So
through many different ways and another
way is that it's actually increasing the
production of a type of immune cell that
kills cancer cells. So you ask how much
fiber to get. It's like literally it's
about, you know, the men and women
differ based on their body weight. It's
also, you can think about it based on
how many calories you consume. So you're
supposed to get 14 grams for every,000
calories you consume. I think on average
like you know 25 to 30 gram is a good
place to be
>> and people are not getting that. So
>> the common expression is uh an apple a
day keeps the doctor away. What would be
your fruit that you would recommend?
>> Apples are great. The p pectin so the
skin of fruits. I mentioned skin. I only
mentioned berries but apples is also
another skin that has the fermentable
type of fiber as well. And mine would be
blueberries. Mine would be blueberries.
And we talk about why I'm like obsessed
with blueberries. But
>> I'd love to talk about that. I do want
to ask like why do you think maybe this
is I don't have the data to support this
but at least in my life and the guys I
know they're not eating fruit like why
do you think people aren't eating fruit
as much anymore? Um because me
personally like I when I was younger I
was able to eat fruit without like any
type of averse reaction but uh then like
I don't know makes my mouth itchy now
and I hear about all these pesticides in
it like uh I'm just kind of I've been
told things about the carnivore diet and
just eating steak and guys don't need
fruit because when they were uh in the
olden days they would just hunt animals
and women would pick berries. Like I I
hear that kind of sentiment like why do
you think guys aren't eating fruit?
>> I think I I think all those reasons. I
think people people are scared of fruit
because they they think that it has too
much sugar and they don't realize that
the fruit is very different than added
sugar because it has the food matrix. It
slows the glucose response. It also has
a lot of beneficial compounds. So many.
It has micronutrients like vitamins and
minerals, but it has these polyphenols
and flavonols and like all these
compounds we haven't even discovered yet
that are like doing beneficial things
like improving cognition. I mean,
literally. So, um I I think that it's
it's unfortunate that people aren't
eating fruit. Fruit is good for you and
like eat seasonally. Like that that was
also something that people if if you
want to eat like your ancestors, like
that's that's what was done too, right?
Like guys were eating fruit. I mean,
give me a break. Um, the carnivore diet
I think has become popular. Men love
meat, you know, they love meat. So,
like, of course, you're going to want to
like find a justification in your brain
to like eat more meat and only eat meat.
Like, give me a break. Like, who? Yeah.
And, um, you know, restrictive diets
when you go from like a standard
American diet or like, you know,
restrictive diets can really help. And
that is a very, very restrictive diet.
One, you're going to eat fewer calories.
There's going to be benefits in that in
and of itself. And that's just anyone
that tries to argue otherwise it's just
not true. You you you're going to
calorie restrict when you're eating just
meat. Like you just can't eat as much.
Like you're not eating as much, right?
It's not as diverse. Um is it good long
term like 10 years down the road? I
don't think so. You're going to you're
going to have micronutrient
insufficiencies and deficiencies and
that will accelerate aging. Like that's
something I studied in my posttock.
There's magnesium like there's not like
you're not going to get magnesium from
from muscle meat. Now, maybe if you
started doing organ meat, you'll get a
little bit more diverse, but still
you're not going to get enough of a lot
of these really important
micronutrients. So,
>> I view it as the most effective way to
have an elimination diet and figure out
like what are the actual factors that I
have food sensitivities to, um, but like
I want to ask with all the pesticides
and different things in our fruit and
vegetables, like where do you where do
you get fruit at?
>> Yeah. So unfortunately, especially
conventionally grown
vegetables and fruit, they're they have
not only pesticides, but they have
forever chemicals. Like these are
chemicals that are staying around in our
body for quite a while. Um years, not
just, you know, like BPA has a pretty
quick halflife. Like you're excreting it
every few hours, but you're constantly
exposed to it. So it is a concern. The
pesticides are a concern. Obviously like
organic is better, but you still have to
wash the vegetable. You have to wash it
really good and that does help. What
also helps give me peace of mind is
there are so many long-term
observational studies looking at people
eating fruits and vegetables. I mean
countless indefensible thousands and
thousands and hundreds of thousands of
them, okay? showing that people that eat
fruits and vegetables have a lower all-c
cause mortality, lower cardiovascular
mortality, lower cancer, everything,
lower Alzheimer's disease, like if it
was so bad and and this is like, you
know, pesticides have been around for a
while now. So, we're talking we're
talking, you know, at least like even in
like starting back in what was it like
the 1960s when they had when they had
the DDT. They've they've like phased out
and like come in with new ones, you
know, but like at the end of the day
like there's nothing there's nothing but
benefits. nothing but benefits. Now,
you'll maybe find this one study that
some carnival dug up and it's like so
what?
Like you can't counter like literally
hundreds of thousands of studies like
showing benefits and then so that that
does help with like it's like well if it
was so bad and that is because the fiber
it is like like is because the
polyphenols is because the
micronutrients because there's so many
beneficial things in these you know
fruits and vegetables that are happening
that it outweighs the negative amount of
like the little bit of pesticide That's
that's really like my you know my take
on it. Um so you know that's that's the
way I view it. I think that it's
overwhelming in terms of like the
benefits.
>> And before we get into some things like
daily habits for people to avoid. I just
want to understand a little bit more
about you. Like what would you say is
the most important part of your
backstory to understand why you care
about people living long, healthy, happy
lives?
>> That's an interesting question. Um, for
me, I know
that there's quite a few habits and
lifestyle factors that people can do
that they're not doing that can have an
outsized effect on their health and
their well-being. And for example,
vitamin D deficiency insufficiency,
70% of the US population. Omega-3 fatty
acids, 90% of the US population, you
know, magnesium, 50% of the population.
These are easy things that when I say
easy, people can take a supplement. It
doesn't get easier than taking a pill.
Not a lot of effort. I'm not asking you
to go to the gym, although I do ask you
to go to the gym. I'm just saying I know
that small habits, these little small
habits can lower your risk for, you
know, Alzheimer's disease, dementia,
cardiovascular disease by quite a lot.
It can, you know, lower your all-c cause
mortality. We're talking 5-year increase
in life expectancy, like things like
this, you know. So, it's frustrating
that this information is out there in a
in a time where we have access to so
much information so easily, so readily,
and yet people are still not doing it.
They're still not they don't have the
information. And so, to me, it's like,
well, I want them to have that
information. Like, that's that's huge.
That's huge. Um, so that's a big I think
a big driver for me. And it's still, and
I've been talking about this for 10
years, and still it's like we still have
these, you know, rampant insufficiencies
in some of these important vitamins and
minerals. And that's just the start of
it. Like there's so many things that can
be done to improve the way you age, to
lower your disease risk, and but also to
improve your your cognitive function and
your well-being and your mental health,
make you feel better, like to give you
more energy. So, I mean, all these
things are important, right? If you had
that information, why wouldn't you want
to share it? Was there a deficiency that
maybe you had uh that maybe you solved
and had a big big impact on your life or
maybe like a close family member had
that you were like, "Oh, you just need
an iron supplement." And you just saw it
made all the world of a difference. I
think omega omega-3 fatty acids were one
where I mean it's I've I've seen changes
in family members in their in their
blood biomarkers and it's just like
night and day. I mean doctors are also
just like keep doing what you're doing.
Um, so I think that was a big one. And
also not only for blood biomarkers, but
um, my dad has Parkinson's and I got him
on omega-3 years and I mean he's had it
he's had it for about nine years now and
really hasn't progressed much. And I had
I immediately got him on a really high
dose of omega-3 and his neurologist is
like keep doing what you're doing
because this is amazing. And so I think
that also is a a big you know
reinforcing I would say factor that hey
these things make a difference in and
not only preventing disease but like
slowing disease pro progression
particularly when it's a bad disease
like Parkinson's.
>> And then on the omega-3 uh would you say
that the average omega-3 supplement that
someone has in their cabinet is
effective?
Um, so omega-3, unfortunately,
supplements in general are a pretty bad
it's it's not regulated. It's not FDA
regulated. People are just kind of
making stuff and, you know, it it may
not have enough omega-3 in there. It may
not be good quality.
>> Do you think they should be?
>> I
I go back and forth on this. I don't
really want I don't think I want them to
be regular. I don't want to have to like
get a prescription for it for sure. like
I want to just go get my vitamin C and
all that. So, I do like that I can just
have that freedom, but it would be nice
to have a middle ground where it's like,
hey, you can't just like go produce
these things in China and have a bunch
of heavy metals and cadmium and like no
active ingredient in it. Like, I feel
like there should be some like
repercussions. There's not. There's not.
I mean, so that that I, you know, I
think that I'd like to see some kind of
middle ground area where that we have
some some more, but we have third-party
testing and that's what I use. So, the
omega-3s in the cabinet, not ideal. You
want them refrigerated because you want
to you want to lower the oxidation.
Omega-3s are very prone to oxidation.
Being exposed to oxygen can cause them
to be damaged and cause them to be um
oxidized. You don't want to really
consume oxidized lipids, oxidized fat.
But um so you want to get put it in the
fridge instead of the cabinet, but also
want to make sure that you're getting a
good quality supplement. So you want to
look for third-party testing and making
sure that they have the amounts of
omega-3 that says on the nutrition facts
because by and large people don't have
those amounts and uh you want to make
sure it's not, you know, it doesn't have
a bunch of contaminating factors like
mercury, PCBs, right? So and and
third-party testing exists and you can
find good quality supplements. You just
have to look up the third party testing
and say, "Oh, these brands have been
have passed the test." Right? I I like I
like to use a um Consumer Lab. Consumer
Lab I don't have any affiliation with
them, but they're basically like you pay
a yearly fee. I don't remember how much
it is, but they they third party test
everything from protein supplements to,
you know, regular fish oil supplements
to tea, everything. So like anything
you're going to be consuming, they do
they go off and they go out and get all
these like supplements out of the
grocery store shelf and test it and say,
"Hey, is this really legit?" So it's
nice. It's nice to have that data.
>> Yeah, it's really fascinating. I'm kind
of rethinking that we talked about
methylene blue before this podcast and
I'm like it'd probably be more
efficacious if I put it in the
refrigerator, right? Since it's
antioxidative.
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't know that
methylene blue I don't Yeah, I mean,
>> but there are some things that have to
be like in different temperature
environments.
>> I would say that that omega-3 is unique
because it really does have it really
it's very prone to oxidation. So, that
would be one that really should be
refrigerated. But um the methylene blue
probably already in and of itself is
antioxidative. So it's like probably a
little more protected if it's not in the
refrigerator.
>> But then the question is where's your
source of methylene blue? What's in it?
Because none of this stuff is reg. And
that's the problem with these peptides.
I there's so much hype now. Um and my
biggest concern isn't that they don't
work. I mean peptides work if it's legit
a legit peptide. The problem is like 99%
of all these peptides are being sourced
in like China and you know they're full
of all sorts of contaminants. There have
been some studies looking at that. So
unless you're like getting a GLP1 from
like a physician that there's a couple
of compoundingies in the US that are
making you know GLP1s for like some of
the big guys but like all these like BPC
157 and all the repair and Wolverine and
all that like these are this is like the
wild west man. This is like um the
concern is like what are you injecting?
You know what are you injecting?
But it's the age-old problem. It's the
same problem with supplements. There's
so many studies out there now showing
that supplements, you know, a large
percentage of them don't contain the
active component of what's said on the
nutrition facts or they have a little
bit too little. Some of them have too
much like melatonin. Some melatonin
supplements have like a hundred times
more than what's said on the nut. Can
you imagine like like giving that to a
kid or something? It's got 100 times
more melatonin. It's just not
>> I believe that because I've taken
melatonin and some days like I felt like
I slept for two days, you know?
>> Froggy when you wake up and you're just
like what?
>> Right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I believe it's it's
more e like effective to uh like micro
dose melatonin too, right?
>> Yeah. You don't want a really large dose
of melatonin for that reason where like
you're it's hard to clear it from your
system.
>> You know, you're going to wake up really
groggy. So, so doing doing you know I I
you know it's some some researchers will
say less than 3 milligrams. I think 3
milligrams is fine, but you you know
some there was at least one study
showing like the microgram range, but
there's a lot of studies that have
looked at 3 milligrams and that's been
pretty good. So, we have colon cancer
rising 3% every year. Testosterone
dropping 1% every year. Uh based on grip
strength, we're raising the weakest
generation of men in history, and their
sperm counts are down 50% over the last
50 years.
Aside from a few of the things we've
talked about, just big picture, if a guy
is listening to this right now and wants
to fight back, what are some everyday
items quietly poisoning young men?
>> Everyday items quietly poisoning young
men? I mean,
water, food, air. I mean, those are
everything.
>> Your phone. Yeah.
>> Um, yeah. So I think unfortunately
the water is a big source of some of I
mean if we're talking about
microplastics and associated chemicals
it's coming from water and it's coming
from our food and um it's coming from
the air we breathe and so things that
you know to consider I mean do you want
to hear solutions or do you want to talk
about that later? I think
I would say if your question is just
identifying what they are.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious of what they all
are because I I'm actually not sure how
air is bad and like how you would even
optimize for that. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, water, microplastics,
nanoplastics, chemicals,
pharmaceuticals, you know, we got all
sorts of stuff in our water, right? So,
and that's that's like a big source of
of microplastics and stuff in our in our
system. So, that would be one getting a
water filter. A reverse osmosis water
filter is great. Any activated carbon
water filter is good to be honest. um to
food, right? So, we're the more
ultrarocessed and processed foods you
eat, the more you're getting a lot of
these plastic chemicals, particularly if
you're eating out, if you're having to
go because the food is being put into
plastic hot, that's dramatically
increasing the breakdown of
microplastics and their chemicals into
your food. In fact, there was a study
showing that like heating up food or or
beverages causes like 50fold more
plastic chemicals to go into the the
food and beverage. And it's the same the
same with microplastics. So, Whole
Foods, cook your own food. You know, I I
don't I don't know how else to say that.
To go coffees, big big big source.
People going out and getting their
coffee to go. Plastic cups. You may
think, "Oh, it's in a paper cup." No,
it's lined with plastic. So, you're
putting this hot beverage into that
plastic and it's again, you're drinking
plast microplastics and you're drinking
um you know, the chemicals.
>> What if you're just drinking like an
iced coffee? Is that okay? Have you
watched them make the iced coffee? If
they don't put the ice in first, I would
I mean, so essentially the shot of
espresso goes into the plastic cup.
>> If you have a bunch of ice there to
buffer it, it's a little better, right?
But yeah, it's you're still getting the
iced. It's better than getting hot,
right?
>> It's better if you're like you need to
get your coffee, you're on the go,
you're traveling, for sure. Even on a
cold day, I would say if you can't drink
it in the mug or bring your own mug,
which is often what I do. Do I bring my
own? Like I'll bring like a Yeti mug and
have them make it. Most of the time
they'll do it. Sometimes they're like,
"Can't do that. I got to do the I got to
pour it from here to there." And I'm
like, "That defeats the purpose."
>> You bring a Yeti to Starbucks.
>> I do.
>> I I do. I bring it with me. I travel in
the airport. I bring it to the airport.
I have them make my, you know, latte or
whatever in most of the time they'll do
it. Like I said, certain businesses,
it's kind of random. I don't know if
it's the people working there. They're
like, I don't want to deal with this.
You know, I don't know. Po possibly. But
I do. I bring my own my own my own uh
Yeti mug because I it's like I can't do
it. Like it's like a pro like all I can
think about is I'm drinking plastic and
like BPA, right? So, um that's another
thing I think people aren't realizing is
slowly like poisoning them. And then
again, all the foods and to- go foods
you're not thinking about like that
stuff is hot. It's going into your it's
going into your food. Anything that's
acidic or spicy in a plastic container.
So salad dressing in those little
plastic containers or your condiments
that are in plastic. If you get hot
sauce or ketchup, it's full of plastic
and they're chemicals. Like this is
stuff people aren't thinking about, but
it's there because the acidity is doing
kind of what heat does. It's causing it
to leech into the to your condiments. So
that's another thing. I mean, not to
drive you crazy, but like you know, it
is something to think about.
>> Do you bring your own sauces when you go
out? I usually am just not using the
sauce or um like I like to I when I buy
my own condiments I get for I go for the
glass, you know? So it's like glass and
salsa, glass and the ketchup. Like
Primal Kitchen makes a lot of nice and
they have a lot of glass um things.
>> Um sometimes I'll just like deal with
it. I'm like, "All right, just live this
once. You're going to like you got to
live life." I like I want this dressing
on my salad or whatever. Uh if I'm on a
long flight, but um oftentimes I'll just
pass on it because I'm like, "Oh, it's
like full of plastic."
>> Right. I remember the sentiment about
>> So you I I do want to close the loop
really quick. You said water.
>> Food.
>> Yeah. Water, food, air. So what's air?
Yeah.
>> Air. Yes. So we are breathing in tons of
microplastics. And this can can segue if
you want to talk about the brain and
microplastics in the brain. This is why
I think they're in there majority reason
why. Um so
plastics are our whole like environment
is like made of plastic, right? I mean
plastic is like you I'm sure this even
table that seems to be wood. I mean
plastic is on our couches. It's you know
tires that are driving on the the
highway and the road. It's not just
rubber. It's plastic polymers mixed in
there. The friction is making
microplastics in the air. Carpet,
upholstery, clothing, um, everything.
You know, you wash your clothes and then
you turn on the dryer. All those clothes
are made of plastic polymers and it's
going into the air. So, particularly in
urban environments, there's particulate
matter. You've heard of that air
pollution, plastic particles are in that
particulate matter. So, we are breathing
them in all all the time. And, and the
more of the urban the environment, the
more you're breathing it in. So, um, I
have hepailters like in every room in my
house to filter out the air and the
microplastics. And that's a a solution
at least while you're at home where
you're sleeping and you want to, you
know, you're spending a lot of time at
home, you want to be able to filter that
air out.
>> But, um, people aren't realizing that.
And then, you know, clothing, all these
clothing that we're wearing, I would say
that's less of a concern. Although, some
of the athletic clothing, you're
sweating in it. your the chemicals from
the plastic are like you know you do
absorb especially when you're hot when
you heat yourself it opens up your pores
to take in stuff better. There's a
dermal barrier. So the majority of
you know these toxic chemicals like
plastic chemicals are getting in our
body because orally we're we're inhaling
it. Inhaling it essentially bypasses the
bloodb brain barrier. It goes like
straight. It's like a straight gateway
to our brain essentially which is why a
lot of drugs are delivered like I worked
at a a children's cancer like St.
Children's Research Hospital which is
pediatric cancer and the big problem
with you know a lot of these like brain
cancers like leoplast or medoblasto that
like kids will get is you can't get the
drugs the cancer drugs to their brain
because of the bloodb brain barrier and
so you know the bypass for that is like
we're going to make drugs that you
inhale you breathe it in because it gets
into the brain right so we're breathing
in these plastic particles guess what
it's getting into the brain
>> and so um
>> that's another thing and the clothing I
mentioned I be like less like not as
much of a concern but it's still
something I would say to answer your
question that you know quietly poisoning
you um would be that as well
>> the water portion
a lot I I remember hearing this
sentiment about like there's plastic in
the water and it's lowering your
testosterone and my solution was uh like
drink out of I I think I had a reverse
osmosis filter for a bit and and I saw
some counter thing that was like, uh,
this isn't as nutritious as typical
water. Uh, so I got vitamins put in it.
It's like, it's still not good enough.
So, we've just opted for drinking like
glass water bottles, like a can of
water, uh, occasionally plastic water
bottles, but is that pretty much just as
bad as drinking tap water in your view?
>> So, aluminum cans are lined with
plastic,
>> right? and that plastic is leeching into
that water or beverage and that's
definitely not a great thing. Same with
plastic. So plast drinking water out of
plastic bottles, you know, because these
bottles they're like they're going
they're on ships to get here. They're on
you know you know these big trucks and
it's hot and like who know like the
temperature is right. You get it cold
when you're like getting it from the
store but it wasn't always cold you
know. So the these there's plastic in
them. In fact, there you do drink you
get more plastic particles from drinking
out of the plastic bottle than you do
from from um tap water. But there's a
lot in tap water. Reverse osmosis.
I mean, it is it is better. It's better.
You can add minerals back. You can take
a mineral supplement, which is what I
do. That's the biggest concern. If
you're eating a diverse diet, if you're
on a carnivore diet, yeah, okay, like
you're not getting enough. But like if
you're eating a diverse diet and you're
taking like a like a multivitamin, a lot
of those trace elements and stuff are in
those as well. So, I would say reverse
osmosis is is the king when it comes to
to drinking water because you're getting
rid of the nanoplastics, you're getting
rid of all the chemicals, you're getting
rid of all that stuff. Forever
chemicals, the PAS, they're in tap
water. So, that is um I would say the
gold standard. And yeah,
>> did they find microplastics in glass
water bottles?
>> Yes. So, microplastics are also in glass
water bottles as well. I know it was so
heartbreaking for me. But um and it
wasn't actually the first study to show
that. There's I did a deep dive into
that. There's other studies showing that
as well. It comes it's coming from the
paint on the lids.
>> So there's paint on the lids and during
the manufacturing and bottling of it. I
mean, you know, all these little things
are like we can't see them, but they're
like coming off and getting into the
water.
The saving grace for me is that the
studies have looked at the size of the
microplastics and compared them to like
microplastics in water coming from a
plastic water bottle. The size is bigger
from the glass bottle because it's
coming from paint than the plastic
bottle which is coming from the plastic
itself. And that makes a big difference
in the ability of your gut to absorb it.
So it's it's actually you actually don't
absorb all the microplastics that that
are getting into your gut. a small
fraction of them actually. And the more
fiber you eat, guess what? Less you're
absorbing. Um, the bigger the plastic
particle, the less likely you your gut
is going to absorb it. It's the smaller
particles, the nanoplastics, which is
what you'll find in plastic water
bottles that are really easily getting
across these gut epithelial cells and
the barrier that they make. So, size
matters. And I do think that um is
something. And I so when I'm traveling I
do still when I get to my hotel one of
the first things I do is I instacart
glass water from glass because I can't I
just can't drink out of plastic. It's
really hard for me to drink. Um I I
don't have like I have some I know some
people that really have gone far and
they're like when they're traveling they
get all their water from fruit. Like
there like I can't do that. Like I'm not
that extreme. Like I will drink out of a
plastic bottle if I have to but I prefer
not to.
>> Right. But glass water overall better
than tap water you would say?
>> Um I would say yeah.
>> Okay. Interesting.
>> Yeah. But particularly, you know, it
depends on where you're at too. Like
>> you know, I spent six years living in
Memphis, Tennessee. They have these
really great aquifer like natural filter
system there. The tap water there is
actually pretty clean, right?
>> So, let me let me modify my statement
and say it depends. If we're talking
about Southern California, yes,
definitely better. If we're talking
about somewhere with somewhere that has
a nice natural aquifer that's filtering
water naturally through the ground, um
maybe maybe better to drink that than
than the glass certainly, but then the
plastic.
>> Does sleeping next to your phone kill
your sperm?
>> I've been really interested in this
question, not only sperm, but just like
is it going to give you brain cancer?
Right. Um and
I I would say the no. I would say no.
But I would also say only because I
would caveat it because we're we're now
in the year 2026. And so I let's let's
look at what the data shows. Okay. The
probably the best evidence that has
linked
mobile phones to sperm count was this
really big study out of Switzerland.
Have you seen this study?
>> Okay. There's a very large study out of
Switzerland and it looked at mobile
phone use and sperm count and it found
that guys men that use their phone 20
times a day had like you know 20% lower
sperm count than men that use their
phones less than once a week. First of
all, who uses their phone less than once
a week? Like I want to know
>> probably high testosterone people
>> like Right. Yeah. But um so that was the
main finding from that study. That study
then went on to look at location of the
phone.
>> So like if your if the phone was in the
trouser like did that affect sperm
count? It did not. It it it was just
having like using the mobile phone a lot
like having it like around you a lot. So
it wasn't like location really mattered.
Um but then it went on to even compare
2G to 3G like to 5G, right? No, actually
it only compared 2G to 3G to I think
maybe 4G.
>> And what what was found in that study
was that it was really the 2G that was
causing the the that was associated with
the low sperm count. As they went up to
like the 3G, they weren't seeing any
effect on sperm count. And um there have
been follow-up studies now that have
also looked at that and some some in
cell culture studies where they take
sperm semen put it in a like petri dish
expose it to 2G they expose it to 3G or
5G and then they look and see how it
affects you know morphology and function
and all these things. And it turns out
that because as we like went up to 5G,
the radio frequency and like that sort
of transmission is much more efficient
instead of like constantly searching and
searching and searching. It's really
quick at getting it. And so you're
you're the sperm are not being exposed
to that radio frequency as much, right?
That EMF um radiation uh radio frequency
as much. And so I think now 5G is much
better than the 4G. And in fact, there's
even studies that have found that if you
look at like the year 2000 to like 2006
or something like that where it was 2G,
like that's where you see the big sperm
count drop. But then like as it gets to
like 3G, 4G, you're not seeing the same
effects. So it's a bit nuanced. I think
to be careful, it's best to probably not
sleep with your phone right next to you.
I mean, these days the problem is no one
has a landline and so if there's an
emergency, you want to be able to answer
that call. So maybe like have your phone
on but maybe like far from you and have,
you know, your call list with the
emergency numbers that can punch through
or whatever. Or just get a landline.
There are landlines now that you can get
um that you can have a contact list.
Like I I have a kid and so like this is
like a big thing that there's like like
a tin can phone where like we have all
the the classmates um where it's like
you have a it's a landline and the
classmates are on your you know you have
a contact list and no one can call that
to your phone unless they're on your
list. You can always call 911 but you no
one can there's no spammers, no
predators, like no none of that can
happen. And so that's kind of cool as
well. I think that it doesn't have to be
just kids that use them. I think adults
can get them too because then you can
only have people on your contact list
that can call you in the middle of the
night and they're probably not going to
call you in the middle of the night
unless there's an emergency. Um my point
is that I do think it's better to be on
the safe side. I'm not convinced that
there's still not an effect. Um but I do
think it's a bit nuanced where it's like
now oh there was this robust effect
particularly when it was 2G. So we have
to kind of like keep that in our
perspective here where you know there's
a difference now right like we're not
it's like our transmission is much more
efficient right and that's kind of part
of the problem where it's like
constantly putting out that signal and
that's the damaging signal right
>> right I'm kind of I I want to understand
this so me personally I sleep with my
phone on airplane mode uh because I can
tell a difference if there's like some
frequency or something moving like I I I
just sleep better Um, like you could ask
my wife. I'm like, "Uh, hey, is your
phone on airplane mode?" And she's like,
"No." I'm like, "Okay, can you turn
airplane mode on? Like I can't sleep."
Um, and like works very well. Maybe
that's just my experience, but like how
does the 2G 5G, you're saying that since
the networks are faster and the
frequencies transmit faster and they
don't have to keep searching that that's
>> better for you? Like I'm I'm kind of
confused on that. Yeah, it's it's
basically you're not being exposed to it
as much, right? When it immediately
finds the it's not like transmitting
that signal like like hitting your brain
or your testicles, right? It's like it
picks it up efficiently. Does that mean
there's no effect? No, it doesn't. It
doesn't mean that. I'm just saying I
don't think it's as bad as the 2G was. I
think you know you know people that are
using those Bluetooths and things that
are like always like constantly
next to their brain.
>> Do you wear AirPods?
>> I do sometimes and I have to like go
back to like the old school. I just
haven't I just haven't cuz I got a new
phone. My other phone I my older phone I
was plugging in I was plugging in the
the old like earphones but now I have to
get the new ones because the the plug-in
thing is different, right, for the new
iPhone. Um, but yeah, I don't wear
AirPods a lot. I wear them occasionally
like like on a 25 minute run, you know,
where it's like I and it's like very I I
don't wear them a lot. I don't think you
should wear them a lot. I do kind of
worry a little bit because it's just
right next to your brain. But again,
this is all like it's all the un like we
don't have enough data on it. I think I
think the data that has linked mobile
phones to sperm, a lot of it is is
coming from that 2G era where they're
looking they're looking back at like the
2000s and and you know, so but that
doesn't mean I don't think there's no
concern at all. I just think it might
not be as bad as it was.
>> Now, we discussed hot tubs uh and how
those can lower men's sperm count. Uh,
do you think weed is killing young men's
fertility?
>> I know for a fact that tobacco smoke
does, which is interesting because our
grandparents were probably smoking a lot
back in the day and yet our the sperm is
still lower now. Um, there's a few I
think it's more nuanced with cannabis to
be honest. I I have come across studies
over the, you know, years and like the
stuff just kind of comes to my radar. I
like to read new studies when I'm
drinking coffee in the morning.
There's studies I've come across from
like in like the fertility clinics
looking at like infertility problems and
stuff and it seems like there is an
association with cannabis use and like
sperm morphology.
>> It's not as clear, but I would say for
someone that's wanting to conceive,
definitely cut that out.
>> Definitely cut that out. Um,
if I were to just go on opinion here,
because again the data is very nuanced
and we don't have enough of it, I think
it's probably affecting sperm.
>> We've talked about plastics, but I want
to understand a different type of
plastic. I What is black plastic and why
is it so dangerous?
>> Black plastic? Well, it's dark. It's
black. Um, black plastic is something
that came on my radar,
I don't know, probably like year and a
half, two, two years ago maybe. And it
came on my radar from like this study
that was talking about how black plastic
has all these flame retardants in it.
Flame retardants are carcinogenic. Um,
it's something that firemen are
unfortunately exposed to a lot. And
the reason these black plastics have
flame retardants in them is because
they're often made from recycled
electronics. Electronics, flame
retardants are added to electronics to
prevent fires, right? And so when you
have I mean it's a great thing to
recycle, of course, great for the
environment, but when you're recycling
electronics and then putting it into
like plastic that's going to be used for
food or for cooking, then that's a whole
other problem, right? We don't want to
be consuming carcinogens. We don't want
to be consuming flame retardants. And um
you'll see, you know, everything from
plastic
utensils like forks and stuff like, you
know, that people have at birthday
parties or parties. The bigger problem
here is the cooking utensils, the black
spatulas, the black spoons, things that
are going to be heated up because when
you heat up, it's the it's the it's the
same common denominator with everything.
when you heat it, you're going to, you
know, leech the plastics and the
chemicals into your food or whatever
you're consuming much more, right? Um,
the other problem is, and this really
was like a bad like moment for me
because I had eaten so many rotisserie
chickens in my life, but like when you
order those rotiss, you think you're
eating healthy, like I'm getting like,
you know, nice good piece of protein.
The bottom of that chicken's like black
plastic, thin black plastic, and the
chickens put in it hot. So you're
talking about like not only getting
microplastics but the the brminated
chemicals. The brminated chemicals are
the flame retardants which are
carcinogenic. So that um is a problem.
Now the study had identified the levels
of these brominated chemicals that were
getting into food. It has now been
retracted like they they had
overestimated. So, but it's still a high
amount and that's why I'm not citing the
amount anymore because now it's not
actually um it's been retracted in terms
of like that number. They did a
statistical error, but um
>> was that recently?
>> Yeah. But the point is is that is that
it's the these plastics still have
these, you know, brominated chemicals in
them. And the only, you know, the only
thing is is that maybe it's not 30 to 40
times as much as safe, but maybe it's
like 20 or 15, you know, whatever the
number is, like if you're daily
consuming this stuff, if you're using
black spatulas and you're eating to- go
food that has black plastic and it's
being heated up, that's a lot of
exposures. you know, it adds up. So,
it's something that I'm still very
concerned about and I think that it's
time to phase it out, honestly. You
know, like we have all this information
now. The problem is it's cheap. The
black plastic is like cheap. Like I I
I've talked to like some people that are
um you know, friends with restaurant
owners, like some friends of mine that
have friends that are restaurant owners
and like they are trying to convince
them to stop using it and they're like,
"No, it's cheaper."
>> So, they're incentivized to use it. So,
black plastics are derived from like
recycled electronics. And then I should
really know the answer to this. My dad
used to work at a plastic bottle factory
when I was younger. Uh, but like what
are normal plastics derived from?
>> Um, I mean, well, plastics are made from
some of these. They're polymers.
Sometimes they're made from recycled
things. Not all plastics are recycled.
Um, but they're they're made from it's a
variety of different things, right? I
mean, there's so many different types of
plastic polymers, but that's what's
making up plastics themselves. Um, and
if you're just asking like if some if
some of the other plastics are recycled,
they are. Like these water bottles, the
thin flimsy ones like they're made from
and unfortunately recycled plastic is is
less stable. Um, and so it's like
leeching more plastics easier. So, it's
good for the environment, not great for
us.
>> Recycled plastic is less stable.
>> Yeah. Like you know that flimsy plastic
water bottle. Like
>> that's interesting because I guess since
the invention of plastic, we would just
see more and more recycled plastic over
time. So, it just gets weaker and
weaker. That's interesting.
>> Yeah.
>> The flimsy plastic is the worst. It's
like the one that's like leeching
everything.
>> How about styrofoam?
>> Styrofoam also has chemicals. I think it
might even have some some of the forever
chemicals on it. It's not good.
Especially putting hot liquid into it,
>> right? Interesting.
>> Yeah. All that stuff. I mean,
>> is there one statistic you've seen about
plastic? Like, have you mapped out maybe
um just since we started using plastic
to all the different ways that end our
life quicker? Like, have you looked at
anything like that?
>> I mean, these studies are really it's
like a growing field. And I think the
thing that is the statistic that was
most compelling to me is the the
microplastics in the brain that so there
was a study out of Brazil and they
looked at a variety of different organs.
All of them had plastics in them but the
brain had 10 to 20 times more plastic
particles than any other organ. And to
me it was completely shocking because I
know that we have this thing called the
bloodb brain barrier to protect our
brain from this very thing right from
chemicals and toxins and all sorts of
stuff getting in there. And so that was
a very shocking statistic and also very
eyeopening I think piece of data because
um it really highlights how this is a
problem. The plastic is ubiquitous. It's
getting into our body and it's getting
into our brains. And that same study
also looked at post-mortem, so people
that had died, people that had died and
had Alzheimer's disease, and it looked
at people that died that did not have
Alzheimer's disease. And it found that
people that had Alzheimer's disease,
when they did biopsies of their brain,
they had like 10 times more
microplastics in their brain than people
that did not have Alzheimer's disease.
And we also know from many studies that
air pollution is probably now I would
say one of the like top environmental
causes of Alzheimer's disease. Air
pollution being particulate matter.
There have been studies out of Mexico
City where air pollution is really bad.
They're finding amaloid beta plaques.
This is like this is supposed to be
happening when you're like old and it's
associated with it's a pathological
feature of Alzheimer's disease. It's
disrupting the synapses. you know, the
connection between neurons. It's how
neurons like form a memory. It's how
they're talking to each other, right?
It's disrupting those. They're finding
it in the brains of babies. So, babies
that have died for whatever reason,
unfortunately, postmortem, they've found
amaloid plaques in these brains, you
know, of babies living in Mexico City
where air pollution is bad. It's crazy.
So, um, getting back to that story, you
know, we're breathing in these plastics
and I think that that is why we have 10
to 20 times more plastic in our brain
than we do in any other organ because
there's two ways to get there. One,
nanoplastics that get through our gut,
get into circulation. Nanoplastics can
get across the brain, bloodb brain
barrier, but then we have this whole
other way of breathing. No one's shown
this. It's kind of just a theory, and
I'm sure someone's going to show it.
makes perfect sense, you know. So, we've
got two ways to get it into our brain.
And I think, you know, knowing just
knowing what we know, there have been
studies in animals looking at
microplastics in the brain. What are
they doing? They're causing
inflammation. Plastic in your brain.
It's causing inflammation. Inflammation
is a known driver. It's called
neuroinflammation. It's a known driver
of Alzheimer's disease, of dementia. And
so when you're having this lowgrade
starting as a baby plastic in your brain
and it's just you know decade after
decade after decade like that stuff's
going to add up right it's going to
accelerate the the you know Alzheimer's
disease it's going to accelerate brain
aging it's going to it also affects you
know neuroinflammation affects mood it's
it's also involved in depression I mean
there have been studies showing that you
can literally like just inject a healthy
normal young person with bacteria like
not not even bacteria but like the outer
membrane of bacteria. It's called
endotoxin. It's something that we
release into our bloodstream when our we
have gut permeability or leaky gut as
it's called. Um and you can cause
depressive symptoms in a normal person
compared to injecting them with just
like a saline placebo control. So we
know inflammation like just acutely can
cause depressive symptoms. And so you
don't want to have that chronic
neuroinflammation going on because not
only is it accelerating brain aging, not
only is it, you know, making you have a
higher risk of age related, you know,
neurodeenerative diseases, but it's
affecting your mood, it's also affecting
cognition. When you have inflammation
going on, guess what? You're not sharp.
>> That inflammation is a huge energy sync.
like whatever energy is going on like
that's why when you're sick like you're
so tired because like activation of your
immune system the activation of your
immune system requires a ton of energy
and so it's being triaged to that
activation to fight off the pathogen
like your body wants you to survive and
not die right and so the energy is being
triaged away from your brain and it's
going to activate your immune system the
same thing is happening you know when
you have low-grade chronic inflammation
going on and it is kind of like this
cause of what people call brain fog
brain fog uh in my opinion is it's like
chronic lowright inflammation that
people have
>> and that's caused by excess uh visceral
fat tissue.
>> It's caused by excess fat, obesity,
visceral fat. It's caused by, you know,
eating tons of refined sugar, gut
permeability causes inflammation, you
know, it's caused by poor diet. It's
caused by microplastics. It's caused by
not getting enough sleep. So many things
can can lead to inflammation. Yeah. So
that's that's like what's causing my
brain fog. It's like oh my gosh, where
do we start? Right? I mean, there's so
many things that can be causing it. This
chronic inflammation is a is a it's a
big pro being sedentary, you know,
sedentary and obesity like these things,
particularly the visceral fat and
because it's really really increasing
those inflammatory cytoines.
>> Let me know if I'm getting this right.
I'm trying to understand. But so
essentially like eating a donut lowers
your testosterone theoretically. Uh like
these small one-time uh habits aren't
that bad for you, but it's just when you
develop them consistently, like
everything stacks up and then just
having excess fat or having
microplastics. Like are those
microplastics flushing out of your body
or are we just having them so
consistently that eventually they stay?
Like it seems like there's short-term
problems that hurt you, then there's
habits that build that keep you in that
lowered state, and then there's like
long-term storage of excess fat and
visceral fat that just cause long-term
damage. Like, as far as the plastics go,
are they cycling out?
>> You're thinking about this, right? Um,
let me start with your sugar question,
but yes, when you eat like 75 grams of
sugar, testosterone goes down like 20
25%. It's transient. It'll go back up.
You're right. If you're like having a
donut once and you're cheating,
whatever, you know, it's the it's the
habit. It's like the daily like then
you're also eating your cookies and then
you're also like all the ultrarocessed
foods and all the all that adds up.
Microplastics when it comes to
microplastics they bioaccumulate. They
there's no once they get into
circulation there's no point of return.
There's no way out. They don't get
excreted. They accumulate. They
bioaccumulate.
Chemicals the chemicals associated. So
these microplastics are
bad for multiple reasons. one is they
themselves are causing inflammation and
that's the problem with the bio
acccumulation because they're going to
continue to do that. Um the second
problem is the chemicals that are on
them that are in them, right? They're
they're also damaging things, but those
do get excreted. They get excreted
through urine um or feces depending on
which chemical we're talking about. BPA
goes through urine forever chemicals go
stay a lot longer they go through feces
but um so so you do excrete those
chemicals but the plastics themselves
they stay um for now the best way we can
defend ourselves against them I think is
one doing the reverse osmosis filter the
the air filter trying to limit our
intake of food that's in all the plastic
because that stuff is you think you're
getting this great salad it's like in
the plastic and the plastic's like
shedding adding particles. Now, you
know, maybe you go to the grocery store
and you get a plastic, you're traveling,
whatever, you get the plastic salad.
Okay, it's probably not been in that
plastic for that long, so maybe not the
worst thing, right? It's the hot food,
the hot food and plastic for sure. Try
to eliminate that as much as possible.
So you want to try to eliminate like
drinking water out of a plastic bottle
like all those things we talked about
but also I think the fiber because you
if you are getting it like you want to
like give your body like the best chance
it has to not absorbing it because
that's where you really can make a
difference once it's in the system once
it's in the blood.
I mean there's some people wanting to do
you know plasma exchange and all that
but like we don't really know how much
that makes a big difference and it's
constantly getting into your blood. How
many times are you going to do that?
Okay, one day great. Tomorrow you wake
up and like the next day and then you're
being exposed to plastics constantly.
>> I guess the goal is to make yourself
just as resilient as possible and you
don't see it as like, oh, just do this
fast and that will get rid of it, right?
>> I I love how you said that. Make
yourself as resilient as possible
because your body is really resilient.
You just have to give it the right tools
and do the right things to make it
resilient. Like for example, the fiber,
right? Like if you are eating the fiber,
you're not going to be absorbing as many
microplastics or nanoplastics. Um if
you're eating broccoli or broccoli
sprouts or cruciferous vegetables like,
you know, cabbage or kale or
cauliflower, bok choy, all that family
that has a chemical in it that gets
converted into something called
sulfurophane
that is able to help increase the
excretion of some of these chemicals,
benzene for one, and air pollution. I
think BPA
um because it's the same the same
enzymes that are involved in excreting
benzene also are involved in BPA and so
you know studies have shown that
sulfuropane does excrete the benzene. I
just think that needs to be shown. So um
I think that if you give your body the
right nutrients and you do the right
things. I mean exercise you're causing
the whole thing of you know part of
exercise is that you're causing
inflammation and oxidative stress
because you're working your body and
your body adapts and it upregulates you.
You've got hundreds of genes that are
anti-inflammatory and antioxidant way
more than taking methylene blue. Like
that is pales in comparison to what your
body can do in terms of antioxidant
capacity. Glutathione is the most
beneficial antioxidant in the brain and
body and you know exercise can help
activate that. Sulfurophane also does
that as well. So if you if you're doing
these things you'll have your body is is
making and activating all these
beneficial anti-inflammatory and
antioxidant pathways because it dealt
with that inflammation and and that
oxidative stress that you generated from
exercise. But it also stays active for
like days, you know, 48 hours or so.
Like so like you're you're protected for
a period of time and so you can make
your body more resilient the more you
give yourself the right foods and the
more that you engage in the right
activities and stay away from things
that like excessive alcohol drinking,
binge drinking, you know that's a
terrible thing for colon cancer as well.
try to do the try to, you know, engage
in the right habits and that's going to
make you more resilient because guess
what? Like we are going to be exposed to
this stuff constantly. Like you're
talking about, well, maybe I should do
the carnivore diet because like all the
vegetables and fruits are full of
pesticides. That's the wrong way to
think about it. You know what? These
fruits and vegetables have the compounds
that activate glutathione. They activate
our stress response pathways. We like
evolved eating them. And and in in fact
like these there's many different I'm
talking about sulfurophin as one example
because it activates a master pathway in
our body called NRF2 which activates
detoxification enzymes. When you eat you
know broccoli or broccoli sprouts even
better. It has 100 times more of this
compound I'm talking about um the
precursor to make sulfurophane. It's
called glucaraphin.
It is the strongest dietary activator of
this pathway that activates phase 2
detoxification enzymes that make your
body detoxify benzene, acryine, I think
BPA, um heterosyclic amines. There
studies showing that people that eat a
bunch of charred meat, they have a lower
colon cancer incidence if they also eat
broccoli. If they don't, they have a
higher one. It's negating some of the
bad effects of like charring your meat
because the phase 2 toxification
enzymes. The other thing it does is it
deactivates something in our body called
phase one biotansformation enzymes.
These are the enzymes that convert these
like procarcinogens into carcinogens in
our gut in our body. And you want that
not active, right? And so when you eat
the right foods, like our body can
handle stress, like our body is strong
and resilient. We just have to give it
the tools and and and you know, put the
stress on it that we're supposed to.
that comes from eating a diverse diet
full of plant phyitochemicals. The
phyitochemicals doing a lot of great
things in the body. Exercising, right?
Like that's something that we talked
about. You used to we used to do it just
part of life. Now we have to make time
for it. Like it's non-negotiable. Like
you want to be resilient because you
can't eliminate plastic. It's not going
to happen. Like it's just impossible,
right? But you can do what you can to
like lower and minimize your risk, but
you can also do the things to make you
more resilient. And so I love like you
you got me on my like thing. I love that
you said resilient because I I think
that that's the takehome here is that we
are resilient. We just have to give our
body the right tools to um make it
resilient.
>> Yeah. I think that we're taught at least
uh I don't know just in school nutrition
class and commercials. I mean, that's
pretty much the average person's uh
health education, like that it's not
about resilience and like it's just like
eat your fruits and vegetables and don't
think about it. Uh, and then people hear
this negative sentiment about fruits and
vegetables, so they just turn away from
it completely and they never get the
resilience portion. Uh, I can say at
least in my own life, like I struggle
with an allergy to fruits and
vegetables, something called oral
allergy syndrome. Uh, and when I took I
think I drink
uh a friend of mine. He's like an
intense carnivore. He was like, "Well,
Jack, it's because you're not drinking
um enough raw milk. You're not eating
like raw uh meat." Something like that.
And I did try raw milk and then I ate
fruit and it had way less of a bad
effect. So, I know that this is a very
real phenomenon. Uh I'm just curious of
your thoughts on raw milk in general,
though.
>> Well, I mean, you're getting a lot of
different probiotics in there. So it's
like a lot of allergies originate in the
gut, right? I mentioned that the gut is
responsible for making something called
T- regulatory cells like like these
things all play a role in allergies in
autoimmune disease. Like so there's a
big big correlation between allergies
and gut health. And so if you're giving
yourself the probiotics and the
beneficial bacteria and stuff in
something like raw milk, there's other
sources of of that as well. then it
makes sense that you would have less of
an allergic response because you're
really just supplying your gut with the
right bacteria um so that it's now able
to ferment that vegetables and those
things in the right way, right? You're
you're giving it the right bacteria that
maybe wasn't there. And I guess when I
was a child as well, uh like children
are often more resilient in general to a
lot of different things. Uh well, I mean
I I guess there's the case that people
say that they grow out of certain
allergies and then there's the case
where people Yeah. So,
>> it goes either way. It It goes either
way. I mean, some people do grow out of
some allergies, but um as as a an adult,
you know, gets older and their gut, if
they have poor gut health and gut
permeability, allergies can form because
the gut permeability is essentially
allowing them to form. So, it can go
both ways. But I think, you know, the
thing with fruit and vegetables is that
people think about it as I've made a
case for fiber and I think that I don't
even think that the carnivore people are
thinking they they think fiber is just
about like making you poop and it's
really not. It's really not. It's a like
you're literally like pro protecting
your your body from absorbing all these
chemicals and like microplastics and
stuff like the viscous stuff that's made
like you're not getting that with meat.
You're not.
>> Fiber is the thing that makes you full
as well, right?
>> It is satiating. Yes, it is satiating.
And I'm saying fiber. There's different
types. We talked about it, right? But
also when people think about fruits and
vegetables, they only think about the
vitamins and minerals. It's the
phytochemicals.
Those are the things that I'm talking
about. This is the sulfurophane, the
resveratrol, the curcumin. These are
things I'm just mentioning ones that
people have heard about. There's I mean
literally thousands and thousands and
thousands of them. So many we haven't
even identified. Ones that we have
identified. I mean it's they are
activating genetic pathways in our body
like we were meant. There are gene
sequences of DNA that have been
identified like little short like 12
repeats of like nucleotides that get
active when you eat certain
phyitochemicals. Like that's amazing.
It's amazing. And it's like the fact
that we have a sequence like it's got to
be in a certain sequence and they're in
all these different pathways that are
involved in making stem cells in
increasing autophagy, the clearing out
of stuff in our body in you know
inflammatory
antioxidant everything that's part of
what I would say resilience right stress
response the response to stress
adaptations to stress right we have like
these g these genes have this very
specific sequence in them antioxidant
response element it's called and it's
like a very specific sequence of DNA
that's activated by things like
polyphenols and blueberries by
sulfurophane and cruciferates vegetables
um by like some of these compounds in
like you know turmeric and root fruit
root vegetables and stuff um it's it's
found in like citrus I mean it it makes
sense right like we're supposed to eat
these things it's activating genetic
pathways in our body they're meant to be
turned on and um you know blueberries
there's study there's so many now
randomized control trials that have
tested blueberry powder to like placebo
powder and literally like a cup of
blueberries a day improves cognitive
performance. It It improves processing
speed, memory. I mean, and this is like
how easy is it to eat a cup of blue I
Blueberries are so good. They're so
good. They're low sugar, low glycemic.
They've got the fermentable fiber in it
and they have the polyphenols. Like, you
just can't lose like they have
everything. They have everything and
they make me feel better when I when I
like it's affecting my mood as well. So,
I love to eat blueberries. Just don't
eat them. Don't mix them with bananas.
Bananas have a compound in them that
break down polyphenols. So, you won't it
won't be as effective. Which is funny
because like nearly every smoothie place
like on the planet when you get a
blueberry smoothie, it's like got a
banana in it.
>> So,
>> so blueberries make you smarter. Yes.
>> Bananas make you dumber or they cancel?
>> No, they just they they break down the
polyphenols. So, they're not making you
they're not working as good, right?
>> There. Yeah. they're just not working as
good because it's the poly, you want the
polyphenol to be intact. You don't want
it to be broken down because then it's
not going to work. But it's the
polyphenol that's activating those
genetic pathways. It activates one in
the brain called brain drive neurotropic
factor BDNF. The same thing that
exercise increases, particularly
vigorous intensity exercise. And so, you
know, BDNF is essentially um it's it's
doing so much. One, it's causing new
neurons to grow in your hippocampus, the
part of your brain involved in learning
and memory. It's it's involved in
something called neuroplasticity. So
neuroplasticity is very high when you're
younger and it goes down as you get
older. And it's essentially the ability
of your brain to adapt to a changing
environment. And you know, changing
environments are happening. When we
think about changing environments, we're
probably thinking about Yeah. I mean,
like, you know, now we're in this it's
very different than it was 10 years ago.
And yes, that's a changing environment,
but also like a dayto-day like our
biology inside what's going on.
Sometimes you eat that donut. There's an
environmental change in the brain. Your
brain has to adapt to it, right?
>> And so it's very like it's involved in
um in that. It's involved in learning,
in memory, in syninnapse formation, in
long-term potenti everything involved in
cognition. So um the fact that
blueberries can increase that like a cup
of blueberries is pretty, I would say,
powerful. It's pretty powerful. Exercise
does it too, but you got to put in the
work. Are there any foods that reliably
boost your testosterone?
>> Foods that boost testosterone?
Yes. So,
I would say at the top of the list would
be oysters or shellfish. Um, foods that
are high in zinc. Zinc is required to
make testosterone.
Um, only about 15% of the population
doesn't get enough zinc. So, it's not
like like half the population, but it's
enough. I mean, there have been studies
showing that, for example, men that are
that do have low zinc to start with,
when they supplement with like 30 30 or
40 grams of zinc a day for a couple of
weeks, they can double their
testosterone levels. So, it's not if
you're already getting enough zinc,
you know, maybe it's not going to make
the hugest effect, but that would be a
food. Also, keep in mind, you don't want
to like mega dose zinc. when you start
to get over like 40 milligrams a day, it
disrupts the zinc copper ratio and it
can deplete copper and that is not good.
So, you don't want to like mega dose on
zinc every day because you want to make
sure you're having the right amount. You
want to make sure it's not depleting
your zinc. So, that's also important to
keep in mind. I would say another food
that might increase testosterone would
be
fatty oily fish like salmon mackerel
because it has vitamin D in it but even
better would be supplementing with
vitamin D because there's not I wouldn't
say enough of it in the fish but you
asked me about foods so um vitamin D is
also very important vitamin D gets
converted into a steroid hormone like
testosterone estrogen or steroid
hormones vitamin D also gets converted
into one of those so it's very important
for many different biological processes
is regulating over a thousand genes.
Some of those genes are involved in
testosterone production. So, if you're
not getting enough vitamin D, you're not
going to be making testosterone
efficiently. And there are also studies
showing that people that are vitamin D
def men that are vitamin D deficient,
when they supplement the vitamin D, they
can raise their testosterone levels to a
um higher level. I don't remember off
the top of my head the number. Um so,
that would be another consideration. And
then I would also add in that for foods
I would say that dark leafy greens
because or almonds or oats anything that
has a lot of magnesium magnesium half
the population US population doesn't get
enough magnesium. Magnesium is required
for those vitamin D dependent you know
enzymes to make vitamin D into the
steroid hormone. So what happens is this
cascading effect. If you don't have
enough magnesium, but you're taking
vitamin D, you're not going to be
converting that D3 into the hormone, the
vitamin D hormone without the magnesium.
It's not going to be doing it
efficiently. So, you need both. And so,
magnesium is something that's found in
dark leafy greens because magnesium is
at the center of a chlorophyll molecule.
Chlorophyll give plants their green
color. So, it's kind of an easy way to
think about magnesium. And that's why
people are not getting enough magnesium
is because nobody's eating directly for
greens anymore. No one's eating that.
Um, another food I would say I would say
do not go low fat and actually like even
um eating a nice a nice amount of
saturated fat is good because saturated
fat is a precursor to make cholesterol
in the body and cholesterol is needed to
make steroid hormones including
testosterone. So a good I would say a
good kind of saturated fat if you can
tolerate it and you're not lactose
intolerant would be whole fat yogurt.
really good source because you're
getting also probiotics in there. It's
good for the gut. Cheese is another one.
Um, cheese has a food matrix. In fact,
there's studies that have compared
cheese to butter, which is also a
saturated fat. And cheese does not raise
LDL like butter does because it has a
food matrix. Yet again, that food matrix
is very important. When you remove it,
it's processing foods a bit. And so,
it's it's important to have that food
matrix. And so I think that would be
another food that um would be important
to consume
>> would be fat and particularly saturated
fat. I guess when we think about the
8020 here of like cognitive function and
living a long time uh would you say it's
food 80%
um exercise 20% and then when you think
of testosterone is that also food 80% uh
exercise 20%.
>> I would say no that's incorrect. I would
say I would say that exercise is the
king when it comes to cognition,
preserving cognition and also aging well
and and and lowering all cause mortality
and mortality from cancer,
cardiovascular disease, neurogenic
disease, like every disease. Exercise is
the king. It forgives a lot of sins to
be honest. It forgives even poor sleep.
You can there's studies showing that
people that you know sleep fewer than
seven hours a week they have a higher
all cause mortality than people sleeping
normal seven to nine hours unless they
exercise they can get away with sleeping
fewer than seven hours a week and still
have the same mortality risk or rate as
yeah exercise is so powerful so powerful
um food is important you can't you can't
you know exercise your way out of
obesity
it's very I mean like you don't burn a
lot of calorie you're not exercising to
burn calories. You're exercising for the
adaptations in your heart, in your
lungs, um in your brain, right? I mean,
you can reverse aging in your brain and
heart. It's amazing. So, you're
exercising for those adaptations, but
the food is important because obesity
and obesity does accelerate the aging
process. It accelerates everything. You
know, you're going to get diseases
earlier for everything, right? Um
so, I think they're both important. I
don't know that I would say food is 80
and exercise 20, though. I think I think
it's more like I think Yeah. It's It's
more like 50 50 40 60 exercise being the
most important.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Huh.
>> Yeah.
>> And I I I guess I'm saying as well uh
maybe we should say deficiencies versus
exercise like would you say Jack
supplement with these five supplements
or would you say Jack workout for 45
minutes?
I would say
workout is still the key. Really?
>> Yeah. Workout is
it should be a part of your personal
hygiene. It is it is like the most
powerful
thing that we you can do to improve the
way you age and the way and your mood
and your brain function everything like
Yeah. It's there's nothing more
powerful. You're never going to pill it
up. It's it's it's it's in it's it's
changing. I mean, there was one study
Mike Snider's lab out of Stanford.
You're changing like 500 different genes
like just with a one workout. And that's
just genes like you're ch your heart,
your lungs, I mean so many things. Your
muscles, your brain, everything's
working and everything's adapting and
it's it's really, you know, you're
getting blood flow to your eyes. It's
improving eye health. You're getting
blood flow to your brain. Like all that
stuff is happening. So I would say that
exercise is really the most important
and powerful thing you can do for
anything. When it comes to testosterone,
um resistance training is important. You
can increase testosterone by you know
doing exercise even even like a short
bout of highintensity you know interval
training workout. But I would say um
ultimately yeah your foods import are
important there. You have to get the
zinc very important. Um eating the fat
you have to have you have to make
cholesterol. Your body makes
cholesterol, but you have to give it the
precursors to make and that's saturated
fat. So you this whole low-fat diet is
good for you. Like that was a lie.
>> That was a lie.
>> Big big lie. Um
>> do you think fasted exercise is also a
lie?
>> Fasted exercise is nuanced. It depends.
So it depends on how what type of
exercise and how long the exercise is
and what and what you're looking for.
What's the output? So, for example, if
you're if you're wanting to have better
adaptations in your mitochondria, those
are the energy producing cells in mo
most of your body, right? Um, sorry,
energy producing organels in the cells
in most of your body. Um, if you
exercise fasted, you get better
adaptations. It's going to happen more
powerfully. But, you know, you're going
to take a performance hit. So, you can't
like go for a run longer than an hour
and you're going to take a big
performance hit. So, I would say that
like if you're doing a short 20 minute,
30 minute run, you could burn more fat
and get better adaptation. Studies have
shown this doing it fasted. If you're
wanting to do weight training, you don't
really necessarily want to fast. You'll
probably get a performance hit. But, um,
you know, if you are doing intermittent
fasting and the only time you're working
out in the morning is in the morning, if
you can train, it's not a big deal, I
would say you could just do like a
little protein shake or something that's
not like super high calorie. But um I
don't know that you you know if your
goal is to lose more fat you will you
will burn more fat if you're if you're
training well fasted if you're
particularly aerobic exercise but again
it's all nuance and it depends on the
outcome you're looking for right
>> when the big lie is to exercise to lose
weight and lose fat for sure.
>> Yes
>> it is for building muscle and to feel
good. It's exercise is for causing your
lungs to like adapt better so that your
like V2 max and your cardio risk rate of
fitness improves. It's to make your
heart um you know not shrink and not get
stiffer with age. It's to make your
brain make more synapses and work better
and protect against you know
neurogenerative disease. It's to make
your muscles you know gain muscle mass
and strength. It's so your immune system
your immune system changes as you you
exercise. So that you exercise because
you are fundamentally changing your
biology in a beneficial way to make you
age better in every possible way and
feel better in the now acutely. I mean
it doesn't get better than that. Like
it's like the best thing you could do
for both right now and there's no tra
the trade-off is good, right? It's not
like you most of the time you're doing
something chewing your nicotine gum or
taking a zen and you want to cognitively
be sharp. there might be a trade-off,
right? With the exercise that the the
whole thing is like it's making you it's
actually improving cognition. It's been
shown 10 minutes of a, you know, short
intense workout improves cognition. Um,
it it actually improved cognition by
like 14% just after 10 minutes and
you're getting the long-term health
benefits, right? So, it's a win-win. As
far as exercise in your workouts that
you prefer, you've talked about a
protocol that reverses cardiac aging. Uh
what's a 45minute workout you can do
that'll make your heart 20 years younger
over time?
>> A 45minute workout done maybe five to
six times a week. All right, let's talk
about this.
um
you can reverse the aging of your heart
and it's it's very very powerful. So
there was a study done by Ben Lavine at
UT Southwest in Dallas and um he took
50-year-olds that basically didn't go to
the gym, didn't exercise, but they
didn't have any disease. Put them on a
pretty intense exercise workout program
for two years. And this was compared to
a you know placebo group, sham control
group. These guys were they thought they
were getting a treatment. Um, so they
were doing like stretching, yoga, they
did a little bit of resistance training,
but enough to just like make them think
they were getting the active treatment,
right? Placebo is very important because
the placebo effect is very real. You can
change your biology. So, this two-year
program was progressive. It wasn't like
starting out day one, we're going to
exercise 5 hours a week, even though
you've never worked out, right? Like,
you can't do that. So, it was
progressive. They worked their way up.
After about 6 months, most of these
adults that were 50 years old were
exercising about 5 hours a week. And the
majority of this exercise they were
doing like 30 minutes of jogging a day
they were doing um once or twice a week
they were doing a highintensity interval
training workout called the Norwegian
4x4. It's basically four minutes of
going on a stationary cycle as hard as
you can and maintain that pace for four
minutes. So you're not going all out and
it's depends on the person's fitness
level, right? So like some people
they're they're as hard as they can go
for 4 minutes and maintain is different
right than another person's. But the
point is they're pushing it throughout
that four minutes and then they rest for
3 minutes and they repeat that four
times. Rest and recover. So they're
going very very light. They're letting
their heart rate come down. So they were
doing that. They started out doing it
one time a week and then they went up to
two times a week. They were doing that
and they also did some resistance
training. But by and large a lot of
their workouts were more in the intense.
They were doing more vigorous intensity
exercise and after two years the
structure
of their heart had reversed by 20 years.
The aging of their heart had reversed by
20 years. So their 52y old hearts look
like 32-year-old hearts in terms of the
structure. And that's very important
because um as you age your hearts your
heart shrinks and it gets stiffer with
age and that affects your cardiovascular
disease risk. It also affects the
ability for you to work out. So, um,
they were able to essentially reverse
that aging by 20 years in just two
years. And that's incredible. Um, pretty
sure most the people that did that
program are still doing it because it's
a very big motivator to hear that you
reversed the aging of your heart by 20
years in just two years. And um so I
would say the workout protocol is
essentially you know you want to be
doing at least you know about 30 minutes
of of some kind of like cardiovascular
aerobic exercise where you are you're
moving fast. So jogging is considered
even moving fast faster than walking
right you're getting your heart rate up.
Some cases you could be 70% max heart
rate, maybe 80%, right, for 30 minutes,
five times a week. And then in addition
to that, you're doing at least one time
a week a more intense workout, a high
intensity interval training workout,
like a Norwegian 4x4 type of workout.
>> One time a week you said?
>> Yeah. Um, they started out they were
doing one time a week and they were also
doing two. It was like mixed in. So I
would say at least once a week would be
good. If you could do twice a week,
better. Um, I do that kind of thing, you
know, twice a week.
um that would be something to consider.
And then they were doing some resistance
training because you have to have your
muscle mass and strength as well. But
and that was like, you know, pretty
minimal. I think it was just twice a
week they were doing doing some like
30-minute bout of resistance training.
So like an hour an hour a week. I want
to ask about the like it seems as though
to me that everyone's chasing the next
longevity trend and
a lot of people are missing the
fundamentals, don't get me wrong. Uh but
like I look at Brian Johnson's $2
million protocol, uh peptides, cold
plunges, uh red light therapy.
If you could only do one thing to extend
your lifespan, what would it be?
>> It would be none of those for sure.
>> I guess outside of outside of exercise
and eating right, what would it be?
>> Oh, it would be it would be deliberate
heat exposure.
>> Sauna.
Yeah. So,
cold plunging
doesn't really have a lot of longevity
benefits. It makes you feel good,
increases norepinephrine. It may brown
some of your fat if you stay in long
enough that could have a metabolic
benefit but really negligible when it
comes to weight loss. And so deliberate
heat exposure from like saunas while it
does transiently kill your sperm count
um it's very beneficial for the heart
and for the brain. So um it's mimicking
moderate intensity exercise and it's
additive with exercise. So there's
studies showing that if you if you do
exercise, aerobic exercise, and then add
a sauna after that compared to just
exercising alone, you improve your B2
max even better and a variety of other
like blood pressure is improved even
better. Lipids are improved. So you're
improving a lot of parameters involved
in cardiovascular health um by adding
just 15 minutes of a hot sauna after
your your aerobic exercise. And then
there are also studies showing that
adding it after a resistance resistance
training workout seems to also increase
proteins in the muscle that are involved
in anabolic signaling. So that study
didn't directly measure like lean body
mass or muscle mass, but they measured
like proteins that are known to be
involved in increasing muscle
hypertrophy. And so um and then there's
just so much evidence coming out of
Finland where you know a lot of the
sauna researchers are doing research
because you know saunas are ubiquitous
in Finland. almost everyone has one at
home and there's also public saunas that
are very, you know, accessible for
people. Just studies showing that using
the sauna,
you know, four to seven times a week
lowers the risk of sudden cardiac death
by like 63%. Um, people that use it four
to seven times a week have a 50% lower
cardiovascular related mortality, a 40%
lower all-c cause mortality, 66% lower
chance of dementia compared to people
using it one time a week. I mean, and
then there's all these like intervention
studies that have come in and said,
"Hey, yeah, and the biomarkers are also
changing in the right direction." As I
mentioned, V2 max is going up.
Cardiorespiratory fitness is one of the
best markers for longevity. Um, people
that, you know, have the highest
cardiorespiratory fitness have a 5-year
increased life expectancy compared to
people with a low cardiorespiratory
fitness. And on top of that, if you have
a high cardiorespiratory fitness, having
an elite one still gives you a 20% lower
all cause mortality compared to those
with the with a high. So there's really
like you just there doesn't seem to be a
limit, right?
>> Does it boost HGH?
>> Yes. Yeah. So again, um it is a type of
stress like exercise stresses the body.
Thermal stress is a type of stress um
particularly heat stress. And so so
doing a sauna and depending on like the
protocol, so the more stressful it is,
the more growth hormone boosting effect
you'll get. So, for example, if you go
in, if you go in the sauna for like, you
know, 20 minutes, get out, rest for five
minutes, then go back in for another 20
minutes, like that's going to boost it
even more than just doing once, right?
So, there there are studies that have
pushed the limits on that. Like they're
they're like repeating repeating
repeating bouts of it and like you can
get up to like a six-fold increase, but
that's like really I wouldn't I wouldn't
go there. It's like a lot of stress,
thermal stress from the sauna. They were
doing it like over and over and over
again the same day. There's also, this
is what a friend told me. Uh, I've been
to Finland and it seemed to be the case
just at least anecdotally, like there's
a lot of bald guys or guys with male
pattern baldness in Finland. Uh, and
some people argue it's because of the
increase in the HGH from the sauna use.
Like, does that
>> I don't know. That's weird. That doesn't
I
>> Does HGH cause baldness?
>> I don't know anything about that. I have
no
>> I have nothing in my brain is connecting
growth hormone to baldness. But I've
never looked into that.
>> There's also things about like uh
jiu-jitsu fighters also have a higher
rate of uh baldness and then just people
with higher testosterone in general,
higher HGH levels like lead to baldness.
And I mean that scares me a bit, but at
the same time it's just like I think
people with high testosterone are doing
jiu-jitsu. Like it's kind of one of
those correlative causal things.
>> Yeah. And also um there's also things to
consider like in Finland it's a very you
know genetically
contained population right and they have
certain genes like in Finland they have
a very high level of ApoE4 alles so they
have a high you know risk of
cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's
disease even though they have a lot of
do a lot of son use there so there could
be some other gene that they're is like
related to you know male pattern
baldness that they have like that's also
a consideration
>> there's like these sorts of studies like
it's too like well it could be a million
other things as well.
>> Well, you think there's very few
trade-offs at the end of the day with
the song.
>> I think the biggest trade-off is the
sperm and and it and it but it's
completely reversible. Like studies have
shown that that you know it's it's like
it's totally reversible. So if you are
wanting to conceive like you have to
stop doing the sauna or like hot tubs
like months before at least 3 months
before it's just necessary but if you're
not then you know or if you've already
had kids you know it's not it's not a
really big issue. It doesn't lower
testosterone
>> sus there are shown to boost it.
>> Not really.
>> Yeah. Not really.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Growth hormone. Yes.
I'm curious too with uh some of these
different protocols like you've been on
Joe Rogan's podcast you said 10 times.
Uh you've been on Chris Williamson's
show, Steven Parlet's show. Uh when
these guys text you after you're done
filming, like what's a common question
they ask you or like what are some
things that they're looking into and
you're like, "Oh, maybe like this is
good, this is good. Are you sending them
stuff?" That kind of
>> I mean I would say over the years it's
been a variety of things. everything
from sauna, heat exposure to cold
exposure. Does cold exposure blunt, you
know, muscle adaptations, exercise
adaptations? Um, yes, it does. Um,
particularly like muscle hypertrophy if
you do it around resistance training.
Um, questions about improving cognitive
function, like what are some things I
can do, you know, to to to make myself
smarter that's not going to like have a
trade-off, a bad trade-off? Mhm.
>> Is carnivore diet really good long term?
Is it healthy long term? My conclusion
was
>> we don't really know. Uh I don't think
so, but that's a that's a another
question that's definitely come around.
>> What do you think of Brian Johnson's
diet?
>> His diet?
>> Mhm.
>> Um he's like mostly vegetarian, right?
>> Right.
>> Yeah. I mean I I think that
it's hard to do it right.
uh if you are obsessed like he is and
are really probably facidious about
making sure you're getting the right
amounts of all the amino acids, you
know, then it might work. I mean,
there's now enough evidence showing that
like vegetarians and vegans can gain
enough muscle mass. A lot of times they
have to end up supplementing, but I
think I think it's like easier to just
eat some, you know, animal protein, you
know, some meat. Most people need a
balanced diet, not just strictly
carnivore, strictly uh vegetarian, not
strictly just supplements. That makes
sense to me.
>> Yeah. I I tried a I tried vegetarian
diet when I was actually vegan. I tried
that like I don't know how it was like a
long time ago. I lasted like I don't
know how many months, maybe like five
months, less than six months. I my hair
was like falling out. my my hair was
falling out and and I've always had like
really thick hair and I like the having
that thick hair and I just was like I'm
done. I'm done. Um and I was I was
experimenting with it because I was
worried about cancer and like you know
IGF-1 and all that stuff and then I just
like dove deep into it and realized that
the problem isn't the meat consumption.
The problem are the other habits that go
along with it. Because yes, you can if
you're eating a lot of animal protein
have a lot you can increase something
called IGF-1 which is increased in
response to protein intake particularly
protein that is from animals. IGF-1 will
allow cancer cells to grow grow even
when a die signal is around. So it's
like one of those things like obesity.
Obesity increases IGF-1 as well. But if
you are not obese, if you are
exercising, if you're not drinking
excessive alcohol, if you're not
smoking, if you have if you don't have
any of these considered like unhealthy
lifestyle factors, then you have the
same cancer incidence as veget
vegetarians. You have the same all-c
cause mortality as vegetarians. And for
the me realizing that was like, "Thank
God I could eat meat," you know, because
um you see a lot of these studies that
kind of scare you and they go, "Eating
meat's like smoking, you know, four
packs of cigarettes a day. I I don't
know, four pack packs a week or
whatever." Like it's something where
it's like it's like as bad as smoking.
And um
I I know I've talked about omega-3 in
that in that in that case, but not
having enough omega-3, but like in this
incident, it was very clear that was
only the case if people were had one of
those unhealthy lifestyle factors along
with eating meat. So they were obese,
they were smoking, they were doing
drinking excessive alcohol or they were
totally sedentary. Like you don't want
to be like a couch potato and just
eating a carnivore diet,
>> right?
>> You don't.
>> It seems like everything is poison. And
to reiterate the point uh that we agreed
on earlier, it's just about consuming
stuff that might have tiny bits of
poison in it. Making yourself more
resilient overall as far as like making
yourself more uh resilient, more able to
not get sick, live longer, uh better
cognition. Like what is the one
deficiency women have that men usually
don't? Oh, well that would obviously be
iron. I mean, and that is
it is a problem. I mean, your immune you
need you need iron. Your red blood cells
need iron. Um,
I would say females that are working out
even have more of a deficiency because
you do lose more iron also through like
hemolyis and stuff like red blood cells
like will die and lice and so you lose
more iron that way. Iron is important
for immune function for the brain. It's
really important for the brain. Myelin
making myelin myelin is the sort of
white fatty substance that coats axons.
So it's really important for electrical
signals signals to go fast, right? So
processing speed. So iron would be one
and in fact um iron would be would be
something that women should really focus
on. Of course eating red meat is the
best dietary source of iron and not a
lot of women are eating enough red meat.
I think particularly the premenopausal
women. Once you hit menopause, then your
iron like it's not a concern anymore.
You're kind of like in the in the dude
category, right? Like you don't need to
be concerned about supplementing with
iron or you know really trying to focus
on getting enough iron from your diet.
>> So dumb male question. Uh like is it
simply because women don't eat the same
amount of meat that men do? Plus like
your period would make you low in iron.
ministration is the big reason for it.
Yeah, you're losing a lot of iron each
month that you know men are not it's not
happening to men and it's not happening
to women that are in menopause. So like
that category of women they're iron is
not a problem for them. They're not like
deficient in iron. They're the same as
men because they're not menrating. So
the biggest cause of iron deficiency in
women is menration and they're not
realizing it because they're not getting
iron tested every month and so they're
just eating normal. And really what they
should be doing is during particularly
during that time is they should be
eating a lot of red meat during that
week. Um if not supplementing I
supplement.
>> That's fascinating that like you would
assume that men need more meat for some
reason and women would need more fruits
but it seems like it's complete
opposite. It is. And in fact, men should
not supplement with iron. And in fact,
that's like a really bad thing because
when you when you are someone that has
enough iron and you're supplementing
with iron, you can free iron is very
reactive. It's it's like a reactive
oxygen species thing. So, it's it's
damaging things and it can get in the
brain and like free iron is associated
with Alzheimer's disease. So, like you
don't want to be just all willy-nilly
like dosing the iron. um it can be it
can be harmful particularly like again
in men and post-menopausal women that
aren't losing a lot of iron through
blood. Now you know some men even like
have there's a very I would say pretty
common gene variation
um hemocchromattosis where they
basically are more susceptible to iron
overload. So you're like you're actually
getting more iron and people with that
sometimes even have to donate blood to
like get rid of the iron. Um, and again,
like unless you did a genetic test or
get your iron levels measured, you
wouldn't really know you have that, but
it is pretty common. I mean, I've seen
quite a few people have that.
>> This might be too political, so I'll cut
it out if you'd like me to, but like,
do you think birth control is affecting
women's iron levels? Like, why is why
are women struggling with iron so much
these days?
I mean, I don't I know I know that oral
con you're talking about oral
contraceptive. Are you talking about
like IUDs or all forms of
>> I guess typically like oral?
>> Yeah. When I hear the word birth
control, I think about oral
contraceptive. Yeah. So, I know there
are God, it's been so long since I've
looked into that in terms of like it it
affecting um some vitamin. I know B6 I
think it also affects like like like it
was B6 I think that got was lower
>> um somehow I don't remember exactly how
it's been so long since I've read that I
don't remember how it affected iron um
but
um you know the thing is is that it also
can affect like hormones too right like
there there are some long-term
consequences with with oral
contraceptives
>> I wanted to ask you about placebo Bo,
how does taking a daily multivitamin
make you smarter? Is it just placebo?
>> No, it's not. In fact, it's been
compared to placebo. So,
I think 10 years ago, this big study
came out and it was like talking about
how multivitamins are useless. Not only
are they useless, they're harmful and
nobody should be taking them and it's
just expensive urine. And um back then I
was like fighting those studies and I
was fighting them, fighting them,
fighting them. And then 10 years come
around full circle now there's like
large randomized control trials
comparing multivitamin use to a placebo.
And what do we know? We know well in
older adults that are given a
multivitamin. It was actually a standard
Centrum silver multivitamin like the
most like cheap available multivitamin
that you find in any store. They were
given it for three years and after that
three years a battery of tests were done
on cognitive function and also like
things were looked at in the brain
looking at brain aging and it turns out
after taking that multivitamin for 3
years they had lowered their global
brain aging by 2.1 years compared to
those given the placebo and they had
lowered episodic brain aging. So
episodic memory is the kind of memory
that's involved in remembering
experiences, you know, like experiences
that you're having. And so they lowered
this episodic brain aging by almost 5
years. It was 4.9 years compared to
placebo. And these were three large
randomized control trials that were
done. They're called the Cosmo studies.
Well, just recently, like a couple of
months ago, another arm of this Cosmo
studies came out looking at
multivitamins. This was a two-year
study. So individuals were given the the
multivitamin for two years and then or a
placebo and they looked at biological
age. So they looked at these epigenetic
you know aging tests and found that that
taking the multivitamin
essentially it slowed epigenetic aging
by about 5.7 months. And you might go
doesn't sound like a lot like I don't
care about. But you have to realize that
that was two years it did that. And so
you take that vitamin for two years and
then two more and then two more and then
two more and two more and two. It adds
up that 5.7 months is going to keep
going, right? Doubling and doubling.
Right. So you're
>> So you age 25% slower.
>> Slower. Yeah.
>> Exactly. And so I think that you know
it's globally affecting aging and it's
also affecting the aging of the brain.
And why is that? Well, because
multivitamins are filling the nutrient
gaps, the micronutrient, the vitamin and
mineral gaps that we're not getting from
our diet. And that was the whole point
that I'd argued 10 years ago talked
about why, you know, what these vitamins
and minerals are doing in the body and
how they're affecting aging and that how
we're not getting enough of them from
our diet. And it makes sense that you
would, you know, get benefits by taking
a a vitamin and mineral supplement to
fill those gaps. And so, um, I think
that I'm I feel vindicated in a way as
well, but it's it's the easiest thing
that you can do to protect your brain
and to to help yourself age, right? I
mean, is take a multivitamin. I have
everyone on my family taking it. Like
from my kid to like my parents, right?
Like everyone's taking a multivitamin
because nobody can eat the perfect diet.
It's really hard. It's really hard.
>> Another one that you were the first
person I ever heard talk about this uh
is that you said something along the
lines of you said creatine can actually
make you smarter and that people aren't
taking enough creatine for it to be
effective. Can you tell me a little bit
about that?
>> Yeah, I became really interested in
creatine
a few years ago when I started getting
serious about resistance training and so
I was looking into the studies and said,
"Okay, what dose do I need to take for
muscle?" Right? I wanted to basically
what creatine is doing. So creatine is
stored as phosphod creatine. It's
basically helps your body make energy
and replace the energy quicker, right?
So you're making energy quicker and and
so when you're working out, you're using
a lot of energy and so you want to
replace that energy quick, right? And so
what creatine does is it increases your
exercise volume so you can do more work.
It's not growing your muscles bigger
like protein does, right? It's just you
can do more work and that work that
you're doing can then increase your
muscle mass and strength, right? And so
it turns out that every study that I
came across, it was like five grams a
day was really essential for that was
like the limit for muscle. Like once you
reach that five grams over the course of
about 3 to four weeks, you saturate your
muscles. Now you might remember some of
these studies back in the day. They do
these loading studies. they load you up
with 20 grams and then they give you the
five because the studies aren't going to
be 3 to four weeks long. But if you're
just a normal everyday person taking
five grams a day and you've been doing
that for 3 to four weeks, your muscles
are saturated, meaning like they've
gotten all they can take in. And so, um,
that's where I was at. I was taking five
grams a day and then I started to really
come across these studies that would,
you know, talk about creatine going into
the brain. creatine seems to be helping
with, you know, effect, you know, sleep
deprivation. And then it was like, what
is going on? So, I started to dive into
this research and then I had Dr. Darren
Cando on my podcast. He's a pretty great
researcher at the University of Regina
um in Canada and I like dove in and it
was very clear that creatine is not only
important for energy, you know,
replacing energy in the muscles, it's
doing it in other tissues as well,
including the brain. And um so what
studies have found is that muscles are
very greedy and when you take in five
grams that five grams is predominantly
going into your muscle particularly if
you're working out right if you're not
working out the creatine you know it's
not really going to make your muscles
bigger
once you get up to 10 grams there was a
study out of Germany showing that 10
grams now you start to get spill over
into the brain because your muscles are
satisfied is starting to get into the
brain the study in Germany found that
like creatine levels were increasing in
the brain
um after supplementing with 10 grams.
And then other studies started to come
out looking at when the brain is
stressed, when it's under stress, like
sleep deprivation. So people that were
deprived of sleep for 24 hours, when
they were supplementing with a high dose
of creatine, um when I say high dose, it
was based on their weight, but
ultimately it was somewhere between 20
to 25 grams that they took. M
>> they were able to not only
you know perform better than they would
have you know if they were sleep
deprived so they also were performing
better than their baseline level before
they were sleep deprived which was
crazy. Um it was a very small study.
Nonetheless other studies have come out
looking at other types of stress on
their brain. So one being dementia, mild
cognitive decline. Those people that are
given 10 or even 20 grams a day for a
period of time, I don't remember few
weeks, they also perform better on
cognitive tests as well. So
other studies again showing like I if
you're if you're stressing the brain and
there's another sleep deprivation study
but ultimately the take-home here is
that if your brain is stressed it needs
more creatine and giving it more
creatine because the energy right stress
is very energy consuming and so you want
to be able to replace that energy
quicker. You make creatine in your brain
but you're only making like 1 to two
grams and when you're stressed like
you're going to need more than that,
right? The same goes when you're
stressing your muscles with force, with
work, working out, you need to make more
energy. Um, my rationale is like we live
in a world now where there's lots of
ways to stress your brain. There's
financial stress, emotional stress,
relationship stress, I mean, work
stress, right? I mean, there's there's
sleep deprivation, all that stuff. So I
sort of and this is totally my
extrapolation of you know the the the
data that actually are stressing the
brain. I feel like my brain's constantly
being stressed all the time like with
work with learning. I mean it's very
cognitive de demand when you're trying
to learn a bunch of science being a mom
being a wife like there's a lot of
things going on right and traveling and
sleep. So my baseline now for creatine
is 10 grams because I want it to get
into the brain and it could be totally
placebo but I feel the 10 grams I don't
get that energy slump like in the
afternoon later part of the day that I
used to get like I'm just going even
kill throughout the day and I if I don't
have my 10 grams I notice it it could be
placebo where I'm like I didn't get that
you know who knows it's working it's
working right and it's so and it
>> have you tried a higher dosage than 10.
>> Yeah. And so when I travel and um I am
or or if I don't get enough sleep, when
I'm traveling, I usually don't get
enough sleep. When I'm going to other
time zones, definitely don't get enough
sleep. I go up to 20 sometimes even 25
grams. And like I went to China
recently, completely different part of
the world, right? And I had to like the
next day, the next morning after I
arrived in the evening and then the next
day I had to give a talk. I mean, you
got to be on game. you got to be ready,
right? Um, and so I did I did my 20
grams and it seems to help with my jet
lag and help me like be able to be me
mentally, you know, cognizant and
functioning peak
>> again. It could be placebo where I'm
thinking I'm just going to get it and
that's fine because creatine is pretty
safe and I don't do 20 grams every day.
I do it in certain situations. So yes, I
do go above 10 grams. My baseline is
usually 10 and there's only certain
scenarios like if I'm sleep deprived or
I'm traveling when I go up to more than
that but it it seems to work for me and
you know it's like I said safe and I
feel like if it's placebo it's fine. I
don't think it's placebo but I'm just
I'm just saying that it could be. Since
we're close to the end of the interview,
uh I do want to ask you because like my
sister uh is a researcher
neuropharmacology, neuroscience, I am
I've had a lot of people on this podcast
that are super of the scientific mind.
Uh then some people that are super like
spiritual in essence, I guess, if you
want to uh divide those two groups a
bit.
What is your take on just like
what is placebo? How important is it?
Like how do you think about some of this
stuff spiritually? Do you consider that?
Just kind of open the floor to you on
just like your takes on uh like is it
all really just let me look at the data
or is there other factors that you
consider? Yeah, I think that there's I
do look at evidence for sure, but you
the the the mind is very powerful and
there is enough evidence now showing
that
>> where placebo effect is a very real
thing. You can change your immune
system. You can make dopamine, produce
dopamine, that changes your immune
system. Immune system changes can change
a lot of other things going on in the
body that are beneficial. And so you can
really have a beneficial effect if you
believe something is going to be
positive. And some people are very
there's even genes that are associated
with the placebo effect. There are
people that have those rosecolored
glasses on. They see the positive in
things. They're more able to to
experience that placebo effect. And and
and it is it does it does change your
biology. There's also something called
the noibo effect which is the opposite
of the placebo effect. And there have
been studies showing that as real
phenomena as well. And that is where you
think something negative is going to
happen to you and you can actually make
it happen. You can increase pain. You
can like those things can happen. So um
and there are genes also associated with
that. And that would be the pessimistic
kind of personality, right? So if you if
you think you have a gluten sensitivity
and you're given a food that you think
has gluten in it, but it doesn't, you
can make yourself have pain, distension,
bloating even though there's no gluten
in it. Right? It's a very real
phenomenon. there's there's studies on
it when it comes to spirituality.
I mean, that's a whole other
question versus placebo. And you know,
as someone I was raised Catholic, went
to Catholic school for gosh, like I
mean, all through elementary and all
through high school, right? And um kind
of drifted away, became very analytical.
And you know, there there are moments of
like I spent a lot of time in graduate
school
looking at mitochondria under electron
microscopes at the very like fundamental
level looking at them under you know
microscopes and how just learning
everything I could about them and just
like all the proteins that are made and
the more I started to learn about it
it's like this is like crazy system and
then you start to look how like you know
other animals have similar things like
that there's this common template and
you know there are moments where like I
remember just going this this is like so
complicated like it can't be random
can't be random um but it wasn't until I
became a mom that I really kind of found
God again and for me you know for a lot
of people spirituality can be a lot of
things it can be God it can be another
type of experience um but I don't know
if that's the question you were asking
me um but it is uh I think you know
finding finding I think spirituality and
um you know Like you can you can think
maybe like God did this for me. Like
that's something people do think and I
think that can be related to
a placebo effect as well where you're
they can be related. I think when you
think this powerful thing is happening
to you and you think it's good, you can
make it happen. And maybe that's how
it's supposed to be. Like I don't know.
It's pretty awesome. I think so. Um but
yeah, back to the spirituality thing,
you know, I think that for me, I the
more the more I learn
and the more I observe and know about
the complexity of the human body, um I
go back to to God and um that for me is
my my spirituality.
>> I think that was great. Um it it is
fascinating to me cuz as you were
talking about the fruit and just like
how many like genes uh fruit unlocks. I
don't know if that's the right termage,
but like I was like, "Wow, this sounds
way more complex and intelligent than
just like a pill that someone would
take, you know, like just what's in an
apple, you know?" Um,
>> it's it's really crazy when you start
like the mo more you start to learn
about it,
>> you you realize like you mean vitamin D
that we make from the sun
>> has like that in and it of itself have
this sequence of DNA that only
recognizes vitamin D well the hormone
that vitamin D gets converted into right
and it's very it's it's just like wow
this very it's a very specific sequence
of DNA that you know these all these
different genes get turned on by that
one you know vitamin D stereo roid
hormone
>> and or again you this food that you take
in
>> it's like wow this like pathway gets
activated it's a very specific sequence
of it's like very
>> it's just so crazy um and it to me it's
just like wow how can this all be like
by chance you know
>> you said that when you had uh your son
you turn toward God a little bit
>> when you think about everything with
screens sleep microplastics
hormones, pesticides.
What scares you the most about the next
10 years for young men?
>> Well, I think I'm I'm scared of the
endocrine disrupting chemicals and their
effects on hormones and, you know,
particularly during development. I think
it's a very sensitive time. I'm I'm
concerned about the effect on fertility,
but I'm also very concerned about
screens and um their effects on mental
health and it's it's I think it's kind
of like the new smoking. I mean like
kids, it's really really bad the social
media screen time. I mean it's like this
it's almost like the ultrarocessed
foods, you know, where it's like hyper
stimulating. you know, we have these
hyper palatable foods that taste really
good and they're like activating all
these reward pathways and you know, I
mean, like they're habit forming and
addictive and in ways that we don't even
understand. And the same goes with these
screens. I mean, like they're like
they're so addicting and they're
stimulating things and um it it's it's
kind of scary for many reasons. one, I
think, you know, socialization and like
being able to talk to people and like if
you see if you see like young people
now, they're always on their phone.
Always, you know, even when they're like
with a friend with their friends,
they'll be sitting there with their
friends. Like I remember like when I
would go to the mall with my friends
like we were talking we were talking we
were making up games and playing and
like now you go to the mall like when I
go shopping and I see these like young
adolesccents they're all on like they're
so they're all on social media whether
it's Tik Tok or Instagram I don't know
what it is but they're like just sitting
there in a group not even talking to
each other and that's that's a little
concerning to me. And then there's the
problem with like comparison and social
comparison and depression and all these
things are now showing up and like
particularly girls adolescent girls are
very prone to it. But there's studies
showing that if you can delay like a
phone like a child from having a phone
like the longer you wait like the better
the better they perform cognitively like
later in life the better like emotional
stable they are less depression they
have. I mean there's so many different
benefits mental health benefits. Um, so
those are the two things that I think I
think about the most, but I also think
about how resilient humans are. And
going back to that, like I feel like,
you know, we are really resilient. We do
adapt and I think we will I like to have
that optimistic sort of look on well,
we'll find a way. You know, we're going
to I think we'll figure it out. um
whether or not it's like like I talked
about these like phones that a lot of
the moms are doing and you know going
back to like the old days where we would
talk on a phone and you know it was in
the kitchen so the parents could like
hear and you you know it was you you
were talking to people um it wasn't like
a screen and all the social problems
that can happen you know aren't
exacerbated because you're like like
looking at someone's social life on a on
a screen right and also you're like more
nice to people like you're like it's so
easy to be mean to people when you're
making a comment and you don't see them,
you don't know that they're a real
person. You don't like have empathy.
Like it's so it's hard. Most people like
when they like look into the eyes of
someone else like I'm looking at you
right now. I feel empathy, right? Like
I'm trying to imagine how you feel
>> and and you just don't get that feeling
when you're looking at a screen, right?
Even if it's someone you know and you're
looking at a video or whatever, like you
don't feel that empathy. You don't you
don't relate to them, right? And so I
feel like um that's another thing that
concerns me too is just like like not
like losing empathy. We're just like
we're all interacting with the with the
screen, right? And not
>> and we see all this negativity as well
and that almost trains our behavior.
It's like oh this is how people treat
each other, you know, tons of hate
comments like this is normalized,
>> right? And I mean that's I mean the
whole then there's a whole other problem
with the algorithm, the nasty algorithm,
right? where it's like of course a
company that has a site that you know
social media or whatever the site is,
they want to keep you on it, right? I
mean that's their that's their goal. So
algorithms are going to make it where
it's going to be something sensational.
Usually things that are sensational are
things that are negative unfortunately.
So that again polarizing and I do feel
like we live in a lot more polarizing
world than when I was a kid. Like I
don't remember people having so much
animosity towards each other for their
different beliefs and stuff because
people do have different beliefs like
and I think that's okay as long as
you're not like wanting to harm someone,
you know? I mean it's okay to have
different political views and and it
doesn't feel like it's okay now in this
in this world. Like it's it's it's I
think a big byproduct of our digital
world that we live in, right? our our
digital I don't even know what to call
it, but it's like we've like we like
have these digital like lives now,
right? like especially us like we're on
you we're on social media and YouTube
and um it's part of our business but you
know everyone else is also on there and
so like they have their lives in real
life and then they have their digital
lives and and so I I I just think that
that digital life has really polarized a
lot of a lot of things and um it's
unfortunate because happiness is also
really important for your well-being
today tomorrow but also for your
well-being and your longevity and the
way you age later in life. And um I
think we should probably focus a lot
more on on how to be happy and how to
appreciate
the little things in life and the things
that we do that maybe aren't like that
rewarding but still important and to
appreciate the people that are in our
lives that are our friends, our family.
Um and just knowing that at the end of
the day like life goes on, life life
goes fast. Um, any parent knows that
because you watch your kid like we all
look the same for like a while, but your
kid like they change rapidly year to
year. And so it really is eye opening as
a parent. You start to see how quick
life goes. And everyone says, "Oh, it
goes so quick." Um, you've probably even
heard that even though you're not a
parent. Um, and and so you start to
realize that life goes quick and these
friendships, if I don't if I don't put
in effort, if I don't put work in,
they're going to go away. And you know,
when you get old, like you don't want to
be alone. Like that's like that's the
worst thing, you know, and so having
social relationships and being happy is
a very important part of all the things
that we've been talking about today like
living a healthy life and that's
something we didn't talk about. I do
think it's important to realize, you
know, there's all these studies of the
blue zones and the the populations of
people that live the longest and they
have these great social networks and
these great social um connections and
they're out, you know, with their
relatives and with their friends and and
that is the opposite of being on a
screen and um we're going in that
opposite direction. And I think that,
you know, especially for Gen Gen Z and
like younger people that are have grown
up with it, like literally like you've
grown up with this digital life, right?
look at the phones and social media and
um that whole that whole world. I think
it's important to to to realize that
the dopamine that you feel when you look
into someone's eyes, like the the
endorphins, the touch, like holding
hands, like like these are important
feelings and they're important things
for humans. Um and and so we should try
to take time to to have relationships in
real life and do things with people and
put our phones away um and enjoy the
time with them because there will come a
day when you look back and you don't
want to regret, right? Like I spent so
much time worrying about the social
media things and all that stuff and I
neglected the the people that are the
most meaningful and that I cared about
and that cared about me, right? So
anyways, that was kind of a sidetrack
rant, but I do think it's important just
for young people to to kind of realize
that I think that screen time, as we
call it, um you know, the social media
life, it's it's it's really um kind of
toxic.
I say that with like a business that
like is like relies on it, but I think
that I honestly think that I would love
people to get off
>> take take breaks and get off social
media and get off their screens as much
as possible and and try to interact with
like your friends and your family like
experiences. There's nothing more
rewarding and nothing that's going to
make you happier than experiences with
the people that you love, right? So
>> I think we'll definitely see a big
divide in society of people that kind of
go toward more what you're saying like
kind of rejecting phones a bit, spending
more time with people uh rejecting like
modernity and then we'll see some people
maybe the other half lean fully into it
uh and go deeper down that rabbit hole.
An interesting study I saw last night uh
and I don't mean to be political by
saying this. like 60% of liberal women
said that uh politics was like the
number one factor they considered when
choosing a partner. Um it's really
interesting. I don't remember the exact
stats, but there's definitely a higher
amount of men that uh consider
themselves conservative and a higher
amount of women that consider themselves
progressive. But like ultimately if that
is told like if it's told to people you
want to have similar beliefs to the
person you're with and then men and
women have completely different beliefs
like just kind of leads to people not
having kids and having families. Um
>> I think the bigger problem is the way
people date now comes down it it this is
part of that equation which is the
swiping dating apps and because you're
looking for characteristics. What are
their what do they look like? What are
their views? Right? But when you like
when I was like dating this none of this
existed. I mean like you had to like go
out and meet people and it's not like
that's not the first thing that you're
thinking about someone's political views
or like any of those things that you're
swiping and like looking at right as on
the list of things to consider to date.
And I say this as I've never used a
dating app so like maybe I'm not even
communicating this right but you get the
gist of what I'm saying. Um, what I'm
saying is that I think that when you
again when you're like when you meet
someone and you're in person with them,
let's say you're at a bar, whatever. Um,
you know, like the first thing you're
question you're going to ask them isn't
going to be like, "Are you Republican or
Democrat?" Like, right? No. No. You're
going to talk to them. You're going to
get to know them. You're going to be
like, "What are common?" Let's let's not
focus on the like, "What are our common
denominators?" Like, "Oh, you surf. I
like to surf." Like, "Oh, you know, like
you like to play tennis. I play tennis."
Right? You're going to like find things.
Oh, you like science? I love science.
Like you're going to
>> you're looking for the green flags, not
avoiding the red flags.
>> And then and also like when you meet a
person, you start to get a feeling for
their who they are, their personality.
You either like have a chemistry or you
don't. And if you have a chemistry,
guess what? Like sometimes you even like
I know couples that are opposite
political beliefs and they're totally
happy. So it's not like the only it
doesn't have to be the only deciding
factor, right? And I just the point I
wanted to make was I think that again
getting away from the screens in every
possible way including and if not even
more important in like finding finding a
mate, finding someone that you're going
to, you know, date and eventually maybe
marry. I mean, if we could just get away
from those dating apps, I think I mean I
I mean I know people there's great
stories too, right? Of course, like
always. But but um there can be it it
can be a filter in the wrong way, right?
Okay. And you'll never you'll never know
if you don't get out and talk to the
person and see who they are.
>> I think that's very important. Um I
wanted to ask when you think about where
everything is going.
Is it is this like a legitimate fear?
Like do you fear that your grandkids
will be infertile?
>> I I don't know that I necessarily fear
that they're going to be infertile, but
I kind of do, if that makes sense. I
think um about
predominantly I think about the effects
of these plastic chemicals like phalates
in particular on on men and even in like
on a developing baby right when you're
just like a fetus inside of your
mother's like you know uterus like the
the fact that that those chemicals are
having such a profound effect on sexual
development even then which can then
lead to infertility when you're adult is
scary. So, it's like, wow. Like, the
decisions that you make when you're
pregnant and not even knowing, it's not
even decisions you make, just not even
knowing that the decisions you're making
are affecting your your developing baby
is scary because because these chemicals
like phalates are so ubiquitous
everywhere. And um there are animal
studies showing that like some of these
chemicals can have generational effects.
No human studies showing that. But going
back to the phalates because that's the
studies showing are so powerful that you
can your mother your mother exposes you
to it not even knowingly right while
you're in her belly and then you end up
being infertile because of that. Like
that's terrifying. So that worries me,
you know, that worries me a lot, I
think.
>> So
it's generational
and does it increase generationally?
>> Animal studies have found that you can
expose pregnant
like female mice to these plastic
chemicals like phalates and it can then
be transmitted not only to that
generation but the next.
There's no evidence of that in humans.
And so, um, it could like there could be
some it's changing like DNA
epigenetically that's going to be
transmitted to the next generation,
which is kind of what's been shown in
animals and in rodents. So, it's
possible that it's also happening like
that in humans. We don't have evidence
of it, but we do have evidence for sure
that it's happening like you yourself
aren't making that decision. like your
mother is exposing you while you're a
young boy and um that's going to affect
your your your fertility later in life.
Even if you make all the right
decisions, you might be, you know, you
might have really low fertility or might
be infertile. Women, girls that are
developing in their in their mother's
womb, you have you make all the eggs
that you have for life when you're in
there, right? So, whatever you're
exposed to in there is going to affect
those eggs. And that's also something to
consider because if there's epigenetic
changes happening, in other words, it's
not mutating the DNA itself. It's like
the things that are sitting on top of
the DNA like methylation, right, that
are changing. Some of those things can
get transmitted to next generation. Some
of those epigenetic marks can stay. Um,
but you know, other factors can affect
that as well. Obesity, like there's been
there have been studies showing that,
you know, obese in mice for sure it
happens like you obesity can affect like
the next generation. So, not only not if
you're if if an obese father mouse has a
female daughter mouse, that daughter
mouse can then have another mouse that
has like, you know, type 2 diabetes and
things like that even without being
exposed to like highfat, high sugar
diets. So, um those transgenerational
effects happen in mice. In humans, we
know that at least sperm DNA, if you
look at sperm DNA from like obese men,
there's all kinds of genes that are
affected that affect like metabolic
health, brain function, things like
that. And if those same men go on a like
weight loss or like they have beriatric
surgery, the genes change back. So, it's
definitely affecting, you know, obesity
and things like that are also affecting
sperm. Same with these endocrine
disrupting chemicals. Um, so yeah, I am
concerned that I mean I'm I'm concerned
for my son. I'm concerned for the future
generations that, you know, I'm like, I
know a lot of people like millennials,
friends of mine that that have to do IVF
that have done IVF to have a baby. Like,
it's already affecting, you know, my
generation of of people where they're
they're not able to have they're having
problems, infertility problems are so
common.
>> Is there a dark side of IVF that people
aren't really talking about? I know that
for women like a lot of the hormones
they have to take there it it doesn't
come without a risk you know so like
ovarian cancer breast cancer risk goes
up a little bit so I would say yeah
there's definitely a trade-off
>> and then I guess like if you had to like
if you were going to do a fertility
protocol what would be the things that
you would make sure to include and make
sure to cut out like both men and women
>> so for first of all I would start way
before conception
like epigenetic stuff is real as I just
mentioned right so if you're obese first
thing you have to do try to lose weight
I mean that's ideal okay um exercise
also changes epigenetic things in a
positive way so you want to really make
sure you're exercising and you want to
probably start this like I mean ideally
years before but at least a year I would
say would be would be a good starting
point and then you want to bank up on
all these micronutrients too. You want
to make sure you're getting like
magnesium, folate, very important for
women. You want to be supplementing with
the prenatal for like a year before you
know consum this is all ideal. Okay,
this is the ideal situation. I'm not
saying that you can't. I mean, humans
are resilient. So, if you haven't done
that, don't freak out. Um, prenatal also
has like a lot of the methylolate which
is really important for um a lot of
preventing neurotrics
as well. So um both both couples again
weight loss exercise women we're adding
in the prenatal we are going to try to
stop like as like eliminate and reduce
as much as we can the plastic chemicals.
So you want to get the reverse osmosis
water filter. You want to make sure
you're not drinking out of the cans a
lot or the plastic water bottles a lot.
All the hot stuff, hot food, everything
we talked about hot food and the you
know plastic stuff. Um receipts. You
don't want to handle receipts a lot. Um
particularly particularly when you are
pregnant and that is because these
receipts are coated with BPA bisphenol
A. That's the white powdery stuff on the
receipt. It's thermal paper. And so when
heat is exposed with the BPA, it causes
the the printing. So it's it's not
actual ink. It's BPA. It's just coated
on there. And it increases BPA. It gets
absorbed through your skin. Particularly
if you have any lotion or cream on
before handling it, then it's like a
hundfold more absorbed into your skin.
And people that are handling receipts on
a daily basis, if you're a cashier
register, please, please, please wear
nitro gloves. You are getting exposed to
a very high amount of BPA on these
receipts. Um, and so nitro gloves
protect you from that. Latex does not.
>> Would you get a shower filter as well?
shower filter I would say less important
like you're not
>> it's
yeah I would to we're talking optimal
here but if we're talking about the
hierarchy here I would say like and
you're on a budget water filter that
you're drinking top for sure but yeah I
would I would you you could go go there
because you know some of these chemicals
can be absorbed through the skin it's
not the heat if you're doing like a hot
shower that will increase the absorption
more, but it it's it's more it's minimal
compared to what ingesting is doing for
sure. Um, and then I would definitely
try to eat whole foods. Prioritize the
whole foods and get, you know, lower the
the ultrarocessed foods. Anything in a
package like the chips and the all that
stuff, all the ultrarocessed foods, the
cereals and all that stuff. And then um
try to get a lot of the greens and the
fruits and the blueberries, like all
that stuff. Like this is like setting
your epigenetics up for good, right?
>> Alcohol consumption. I would I would
stop I would try to stop like at least 6
months, like no alcohol, 6 months before
conceiving. Um that would be ideal. I
would say like 4 months is fine. Um both
men and women. And then as you're
starting to conceive, then you want to
like cut the coffee down. Caffeine can
can um affect early early implantation.
So you won't even know that you're
having like a spontaneous mis
miscarriage because it's like so early.
So you want to cut down, cut out
caffeine, both men and women. And do
everything else that I'm saying, the
vitamins, fish oil, magnesium,
multivitamin. Um, make sure you're
taking all the prenatal multivitamin for
the guy, prenatal for the girl. Um,
and definitely the fish oil for both as
well. And for men, I would also be
adding some zinc
and I would add vitamin C. I would add
um ubiquininal for sperm health,
mitochondrial health. NAD, you could do
nicotide, ribbocide, not while you're
pregnant, but like for sperm health.
This is the guy for for sperm health.
Anything that improves mitochondrial
function is going to improve your your
sperm. Um,
>> very briefly, do people who have kids
live longer?
>> Yes. Um, there are studies showing that
people that have kids live longer and in
fact even women that that breastfeed,
the more times they breastfeed, the
lower their their breast cancer and
ovarian cancer risk goes down. So quite
beneficial for women to to not only have
a baby but to breastfeed them.
>> Questions here. Uh
one I just wanted to ask you and this is
something
I I kind of came to when researching
your stuff. She's very health consscious
as well. And I was, does it ever concern
you like the no SIBO effect with all
these uh different health experts and
maybe you speaking on YouTube as well
that like
uh I'm telling people that something is
bad so and they're not going to take
action on it, but when they do it
they're going to think it's more bad so
they're going to have like more negative
consequences. Like do you ever think
about that? I do try to give positive
takehomes along with the negative for
sure because yeah I do worry about that.
I know that it's not good to just like
tell everyone all this negative stuff
like you need positive and there is
positive even with the plastic chemicals
right like you can we can excrete them
we can increase their excretion by
eating things like cruciferous
vegetables lowering our exposure to them
I mean so just knowing exercise all
these things they have beneficial
effects they even have beneficial
effects on all that stuff right because
you're just you're increasing everything
good all the it's stress response
pathways like your body is able to
handle stress better and that's why you
want to give yourself the beneficial
type of stress because we're going to be
exposed to all kinds of stress
constantly. So the the more resilient
you are, the better you can handle it.
And so I think that's a positive
takehome is that you can handle these
stresses. Um don't freak out so much
about it. Try to do what you can
minimize your exposure to some of the
chemicals, plastic chemicals and
plastics and things like that. But just
know that that even if you are exposed
to them, like we're pretty resilient and
and if you're doing the right things
like exercise, like you are able to
handle stress better. Your body's like
able to do it. And if you're eating the
right, you know, foods like some of
these vegetables and and polyphenols,
that's also activating a lot of these
beneficial pathways that are detoxifying
things more readily, faster, right? So
you're getting rid of them faster. So,
um I think that's the positive note here
is that like you your bodies are so
great at like you can detoxify things.
You can um fight off, you know,
inflammation and oxidative stress and
you know, you just have to uh give your
body the right tools to do it. And I
think that's the underlying theme and
message I'm trying to communicate.
>> I think as well when people watch health
podcasts, they should really be
conscious of like I'm not going to just
watch Dr. Rhonda, tell me that all these
things are poison and not take any
action on it. You know, like they have
to actually see uh like, okay, let me
double check. Is she right about this?
Okay, then let me actually do it. And
otherwise, I probably shouldn't watch
the podcast if I'm not in the mood to
take action about my health, you know?
Um
>> cuz I think a lot of people watch these
things and they just make themselves
anxious. Uh and they kind of have that
uh no SIBO effect without actually doing
the things. But
>> right,
>> overall I think everything in this
podcast is super helpful so far though.
Uh but for the young man listening right
now who feels nervous about his health
and doesn't know where to start, if you
could just give him one piece of advice
for his health, what would it be?
>> One piece of advice.
I mean,
I think if you're
eating a diverse diet with vegetables
and fruits and healthy meats, lean
meats, and you're exercising and getting
enough sleep,
you're doing it right. I think I think,
you know, that's all the other stuff is
just added. I think it's really
really about that. It really is about
the fundamentals.
>> Great. Well, and then I'll just add this
to what's the worst piece of health
advice you've ever received?
>> When I was in graduate school, I was
very stressed out. And
if you're under if you're undergoing
psychological stress, that affects your
gut. It actually causes gut
permeability.
>> I didn't know it at the time, but I was
getting all these like gut problems
where I was getting like bloating and
distension and pain and and like it was
just like I didn't I thought I had IBS.
I didn't know what was going on. So, I
went to see doctors and they couldn't
figure out. It didn't seem like I had
any of those things. Um, I even had like
an endoscopy where they were like
looking at my colon, nothing. Right. And
I think the worst piece of advice I got
was we can't figure out why you're
having gut pain or gut problems. Um, but
you could take an SSRI or you can take
an anti-convulsant and that'll help with
it. And I was like, absolutely not. No,
I'm not going to take an
antid-depressant or an anticvulsant,
which is going to help with the pain in
my gut. And then I figured out it was
stress and really kind of dialed in my
diet better. Uh, and it went away.
Thankfully, I didn't get on SSRIs, but
that was the worst advice I'd got.
Yeah, I I really do think that the whole
like commit to walking on a treadmill
for one minute thing uh or five minutes
or doing a squat uh doing a few squats,
putting on your clothes to the gym, just
the small steps. I think that's always
super powerful. And I think something
people miss too is like if you're not
working out regularly now, you're
practically committing
to being out of shape for the rest of
your life. you know because it is
something that you have to maintain
daily and if you do decide to take SSRIs
like you are committing to doing that
for life instead of trying something
else first you know um I I really don't
think people think about the long-term
consequences of these things but
>> and also like I'm sure a lot of most
people brush their teeth every day
>> right
>> like why do they brush their teeth they
don't want cavities they don't want
their like
>> you don't want to get you know
periodontitis and things like that
Right? Like it is absolutely the same
with exercise. Like you absolutely
should be exercising every day just like
a personal h part of your personal
hygiene like brushing your teeth because
you don't want to get cardiovascular
disease. You don't want to get upper
respiratory tract infections that are
going to kill you. You don't want to get
Alzheimer's disease or cancer. Like that
is why you exercise is not to lose
weight because you don't want to get
those diseases like cavities. I would
take a cavity way over getting cancer,
right? And yet you brush your teeth
every day and not exercise every day.
Think about that. Think about it. And it
doesn't even have to be much. It doesn't
have to be much. Like 10 minutes a day.
There are studies showing that people
that do three minutes of like about of
exercise three times a day. Like when I
say about like moving fast, like running
up the stairs, sprinting up the stairs,
you know, running around chasing your
grandkid or your kid playing tag,
whatever. If they do that three times a
day, so a total of nine minutes a day,
they have a 40% lower all-c cause
mortality and a 50% lower um
cardiovascular related mortality and a
40% lower cancer related mortality. Um
even in people that don't identify
themselves as being exercisers, so
they're like, "Well, I don't go to the
gym. No, I'm not an exerciser." Even
those people get those benefits. So, it
doesn't take much. And really, it should
be a part of the personal hygiene like
like everyone that I know that brushes
their teeth and so many people that I
know that don't exercise every day. Like
do something like do something. And
those moments that you do add up like
you know like I have a kid. I run around
and play soccer sometimes. I'll I have a
puppy. I'll like run around and chase
the puppy and do frisbee and like those
moments all count. They all add up and
they count. So don't don't don't ignore
like those moments of like getting your
heart rate up.
Well, everyone, uh, this has been your
guest, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. This is the
Jack Neil podcast. Where can people find
you? Um, I have a YouTube channel. I'm
I've got a podcast on YouTube called
Found My Fitness where I talk about all
these things and interview guests that
are experts in the field of nutrition,
fitness, mental health, well, you know,
physical um fitness, everything from,
you know, aging to mental well-being and
brain function. So, they can find me
there. Found my fitness.
>> What's one episode that people will want
to watch after watching this one if they
made it this far? I think a good episode
would be the one on creatine with Dr.
Darren Kandow is a really good one or
the one with Dr. Ben Lavine on the kind
of exercise you need to reverse heart
aging and reverse aging in general.
Those are two really good episodes.
>> Perfect. Well, see you guys.