Are you threatened by the [ __ ] maxing
movement?
>> Have you heard about this? It's
>> a great question, dude.
That's a good question.
>> Looks right at me. Yeah. Yes. Do you
>> Let me answer that the way I think you
intended it. Yes. I am personally
offended.
Threat upreat
>> I'm [ __ ] maxing today. Like is that
what you think?
>> [ __ ] maxing.
>> All right.
>> It's awesome.
>> No, I actually What is this?
>> I heard of look maxing. Yeah,
>> there's looks maxing. Then there's a guy
who does what's called [ __ ] maxing,
which is was popularized by, of all
people, Mark Andre, who's easily one of
the smartest people I've ever met. Know
Mark real well. Um, he's a big fan of
[ __ ] maxing. [ __ ] maxing is this guy
on the internet who
>> what you want to explain?
>> Oh, I'm living. So, you know, with all
the stuff about get up in the morning
and, you know, do this and do that and,
you know, when you have a problem or all
the kind of stuff that that, you know,
Chris covers, you know, like about
emerging dynamics of male female
relationships and self-perception and
philosophy and he interviews like, you
know, real thinkers and they have
British accents and that kind of thing.
This guy sits in his backyard is
basically a farm and he does this thing
that he calls [ __ ] maxing, which is
where you basically just don't think
about [ __ ] at all. You just do what
needs to be done. And if something
bothers you, you just ignore it. Wait,
is this the the the CEO that is like I
don't sell.
>> So Mark Andre came on the Davidson.
Yeah. So Mark Andre started Netscape,
>> right?
>> And now he has A16Z which is one of the
you know biggest investment firms in uh
in the Bay Area and all over the world
frankly. And he
came on the David Senro podcast which
used which is a guy who also does the
founders podcast. David Senro podcast
incidentally put out by SICOM. We loved
the founders podcast. So we brought
Senra over and he brought Mark Andre on
and Mark Andre said he used the words
these are not my words. He said
>> um great men of history did not sit
around thinking about their thoughts and
introspecting you know like
introspection is not what we need to be
doing. We need more action less
introspection. Actually Dana White kind
of doubled down on this recently
>> saying that he's not he he um is not a
fan of people men talking about their
emotional challenges publicly. you know
that it's like get up, go to war, make
money for your family, you know, sort of
the old school kind of stoicism thing.
So the the Mark Andre thing
>> mobilized a big discussion online on X
in particular. One sort of angle of
attack that he opened was all right,
here's a billionaire who doesn't like
introspection and you know and and I
know Mark very well. He's not a
sociopath. He's not he's a very very
kind person. I know his family. He's an
incredible human being at many levels.
I'm going to catch a lot of [ __ ] for
saying that, but that's the truth. if
you actually know him. All right.
>> And now he's [ __ ]
>> Now he then made a plug for [ __ ]
maxing. He was like, "Hey, there's this
guy on the internet who basically
doesn't say [ __ ] at all. He just says
just handle your business. Do what you
need to do and stop thinking about
things so much. Don't ruminate so much."
And
>> he said he was a big fan of this [ __ ]
max. So building off looks Max.
>> And then that caught
>> some momentum.
>> And so now the big thing is
introspection. Like should we
introspection? we think about and
reflect on who we are and what's
challenging us and Dana was basically
saying hey listen a lot I think the
point Dana was trying to make was that
men's mental health while critical right
suicide rates are way up like we all
acknowledge that he made a very good
point which is often times getting into
action and doing things as opposed to
being online and thinking about your
problems and rumination is a very
dangerous place to be.
>> Yeah. So he said, "Get up and work and
provide for your family." And but it
when he and Mark said these things, it
came across as a little bit dismissive
of the idea that emotions are relevant.
And I do think, you know, they have a a
point in the sense that I think we need
to balance out some of what we've been
hearing a lot of over the last few
years, which is that we need to think
about every aspect of self, every
aspect, you know, like, oh, too much
therapy is not not good.
>> Yeah. if you spend your time just like
thinking and not doing. So, cuz it feels
like that's kind of the the note behind
the note, right? Is like if you just sit
and introspect and think and you just
sit in like I feel this way and you
never actually take action, then you're
just literally not doing anything. But I
think there's kind of levels to like I
think it's good to to be introspective
to a degree. check in with yourself, you
know, express how you feel, but don't
just sit there and say, "This is how I
feel," and then don't do anything.
>> Yeah. I mean, there's a there's a kind
of a larger
>> perhaps deeper discussion around like to
what and Mark Andre has said this as
well, like people who've tended to
accomplish a lot of great things often
times have some pretty rough edges.
>> Yeah. I grew up in the town where Steve
Jobs was around. He used to come in and
get rollerblade wheels at the skateboard
shop where I worked and like he was kind
of a rough edge guy. He didn't wear
shoes and you know and he wanted what he
wanted he wanted then he was known for
yelling at people. He drive 95 miles per
like you 90 this guy just yeah likes to
drive fast you know he got you know and
so there was this there was this time up
until phones with cameras thank you
Steve Jobs there was this time up until
phones with cameras where people were
kind of celebrated for being big
personalities with some rough edges
>> but for the great things that they did.
Now it's there's a movement largely from
the left of like hey you know everything
needs to be rather tempered right you
can't be a big personality unless you're
perfect in every dimension and if you
look I mean historically you look at any
public figure now like you're going to
find as you said there's that dark and
light those and Mark's whole thing is
those things go hand inand like great
CEOs oftentimes have some strong
disagreeableness they rate high
disagreeableness um they're
conscientious
Right. But they also are kind of high
friction people. But some of the like
you know Mark and you're like this is
good. But some really high achievers
historically even now men let's say that
are really high achievers that get a lot
of things done and have accomplished a
lot are also like from many people's
accounts like terrible people. You know
some
>> I guess the question is how close are
those people to the actual person you
know
>> that are saying that?
>> Yeah. I mean I think right now there's a
lot of hatred of billionaires. Sure.
>> And look, I was born and raised in in
Silicon Valley. So
>> going big is like a thing. Like you my
friends got into skateboarding in the
barrier like they weren't thinking about
bu becoming billionaires, but like the
embarcoder of plaza in the early 90s.
Those guys like started big companies.
They went big. Rob Derick, he's from you
know Midwest, but then came out shows
and then like ridiculous.
>> I mean I have no beef with him.
>> Big going big is is a theme in tech,
right? Yeah. Um, and everyone uses these
platforms and everyone hates these
people, but I don't know. I'm I know
some of these people. I'm not like super
close with them. Yeah, I I like Mark. I
trust Mark. I like the other Mark. I
trust that Mark, too. Um, I know, you
know, various folks at at who run these
big companies. And
>> do I think they're perfect? No. No. Of
course. Um, but I could listen, if I
were start talking about Nobel Prize
winners, past and present,
>> man, the men and the women, very
complicated people. like you want to do
a deep dive on the complications of
science funding like look up Jonas Sulk
and who he married and getting money and
then the work that he was able to do by
virtue of his marital relations and
things. I'm not saying he used his wife
to make
>> married for funding.
>> Many there's many examples of this in
science. You know, money fuels science.
You can do more science with it.
>> Got to love some science.
>> So, there's a lot of interesting and
it's not sorted. It's just over it's
>> they're still humans.
>> Yeah. You know, so anyway,
>> but if you've got constant CCTV cuz
there's a phone camera within two yards
of you everywhere on the planet,
>> those rough edges look a bit more harsh
when they're scrutinized. Is that what
you're saying?
>> Yeah. I mean, I have this whole opinion,
this purely opinion now about what
cameras have done to sort of what we
need in order to really make a
strong assumption about somebody. So, in
the like in the past, you could just
say, hey, this person like I don't like
them based on one thing they said and
and you're entitled to do that. But I
think two things have happened in the
last couple of years that have
completely transformed like what our
expectation is about how rumor matches
up with reality, at least for me. One
would be, and this is an unfortunate,
it's a bad incident, right? Would be
the, you know, there was all this
speculation about Diddy and these Diddy
parties, right? And everyone expected
like at some point there's going to be a
video. Guess what? There was never
actually a video aired, right? But there
was a video of him beating up this
woman.
>> That sort of raised the threshold for
what people need to see in order to be
like, "Okay, that actually happened."
Okay. The other one was this Coldplay
concert thing. Like that Coldplay
concert where the couple got caught
cheating or whatever, like whatever the
context of their backdrop or the
relationship was totally uninteresting
to me, but you could not have created
this was like opera, right? They're at a
concert. They're cheating. The guy goes,
"Oh, look at these two lovers, right?
The guy is not just any sketch from one
of your literally like a sketch."
>> There's this moment where they're in the
like, "Oh, that's us."
>> Then there's this moment where they're
like, "Oh shit." [ __ ] So it went from
kind of like delight to shock in shame
and then so we got to witness the whole
arc. Now I wasn't interested in that but
the whole world jumped on that because
it's like the human drama playing out in
real time. So now when somebody goes,
"Oh, I heard that this woman had a kid
with this guy. I don't even know their
their names. You guys probably do, you
know, and she named her kid after this
guy and like oh it it it has this kind
of lowlevel like whatever. what happened
between Justin Baldon and Blake Lively
and this and that and it's sort of like
>> yeah where's the video show me the video
or this people don't people and so the
press can go back and forth and back and
forth and people kind of pick their
camps
>> but I think real things being captured
on real video has set the st like not
standard um low standard high threshold
>> and so I think that's changed so now if
somebody goes oh yeah these guys are you
know sociopaths you go show me the data
for sociopathic people actually now need
to see data it's not sufficient that
somebody write some little thing about
one little thing. They need to see the
video.
>> The video is what what actually shifts
people's mind. So if people are saying,
"Hey, this billionaire founder, this
billionaire founder, this billionaire,
these guys are terrible people."
>> Right. Right.
>> How are they terrible people?
>> Yeah.
>> Show me them being terrible people. I
want to see it, but I just don't see
evidence of it. So I think it's just
turning to chatter and I think it's just
going to turn to fog and then I think
it's going to just go away.
>> Well, yeah. I think a lot of it differs
though. Depends who it is. There's
different billionaires doing different
stuff. So, but I I agree. If someone
just has a billion bucks, I wouldn't
hate them just because it's like you
shouldn't have that much.
>> You're busy and you're doing well. I
think it's very easy to get upset with
other people cuz it's a lot easier than
like getting up and doing something like
[ __ ] maxing is hard.
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