Who are you? How do you describe what
you do for work? It's so hard, but uh if
the if I'm talking to somebody that's
boring, I'll just tell them I teach
psychology stuff. But if I want to get
into it, I'll I'll say, you know, I I
teach uh all everything from
brainwashing to interrogation, uh
applied on yourself and other people.
And most of what I do is train sales
teams on nowadays. So, it sales has
gotten really addicted to this stuff.
Uh but I've studied neuroscience for a
long time.
And I spent my life trying to figure out
how the brain works and how to shift
human behavior. Not just like to get
someone to confess to something in an
interrogation, but how do we modify our
own behavior and and what are the
mechanics that make that possible?
Do you think we're living in the most
psychologically manipulated era in human
history? Yes.
Hands down.
But I mean, you go to ancient Rome, some
some [ __ ] would happen and they would
say, "Hey, do the do the lion fighting
thing with the guy. Let's distract
everybody." So, I I don't think it's
new. I think it's a lot more pervasive,
though. Is that because of it being
facilitated through technology, or is
that because of a requirement for
control? What's the motivation for that?
I think the
I I just the digital media. If you think
about what is the number one fear of
human beings? Like, every psychology
class talks about it. It's the public
speaking.
But it's never public speaking. It's I I
don't want to be judged. I don't want to
be ostracized cuz our in our brain
that's 200,000 years old.
Uh getting kicked out of a tribe means
I'm dead. Not going to have sex, I won't
have babies, and I'm going to die.
It's it's a mortal fear uh of dying.
But if you go back to the 1980s, um
if I did something stupid in high school
or even as an adult,
I have to worry about 30 or 40 people
judging me and maybe,
you know, really kind of kicking me out
of a social group. And now, with social
media, you've got to worry about five or
10 million.
So, the consequences of doing something
wrong
are
unbelievably exponentially increased,
uh which has made us
a whole different society, which we
could get into. And this is the origin
of this pandemic of loneliness that
we're in right now. Um where everybody
will agree that we're at
pandemic levels of loneliness, and
nobody
you don't hear anyone saying, "I'm
lonely."
>> [gasps]
>> Which is
a a deeper root of this exact problem.
What's happening then?
You ever study French philosopher, this
guy named Sartre?
I've
read [snorts] a little bit of his stuff,
but like just single quotes. He had this
play it was called Sartre's Hell,
where three people are locked in a room,
basically like this. And it's a play.
But the room's not totally locked. Every
couple hours the door opens and you can
leave if you want to. And nobody leaves.
And they're all desperate to be seen a
certain way by someone else. So, this
one guy, he
um I'm paraphrasing, but he wants to be
seen as a good person.
So, he asks asks this woman there,
"Please tell me I'm a good person.
Please."
And she says, "Yeah, you're a good
person." But he knows she doesn't mean
it. So, he stays. The door opens, nobody
leaves, and they stay because they're
waiting for this confirmation from other
people who they are.
And in this world today,
with how performative and artificial
everybody has become, so that I've got
to show my best self, I've got to hide
shame, I've got to conceal all this
guilt and stuff that people carry
around,
>> [cough and clears throat]
>> the reason that somebody can feel lonely
in a room full of people, and I'm not
just talking about on Facebook, I'm
saying like in a real room full of
people, is because no matter how many
times your friends come over and pat you
on the back and say, "Oh, Chris, we did
you did a great job. We love you. You're
you're a great guy."
Your spouse might say, "Oh, we we love
you and you're you're a great person."
In the back of your mind, you know
you're faking it and you know that none
of them really like the real you.
And you get at the end of the day, and
I'm not saying this is you, but at the
end of the day, you're lonely in a in a
room of 150, 200 people
because you know that none of them know
you.
And you haven't ever really been seen
by anybody. Mhm.
So,
increased fear of judgement because of
social media equals increased
performance
equals I'm wearing a costume
almost all the time and nobody has ever
seen me, nobody really knows me. So,
even if they claim to like me, in the
back of my brain, there's this little
reminder mechanism that says
they don't like the real me.
And nobody ever has. Nobody's ever seen
me. Mhm.
So,
this is my opinion, but I think that's
the root of our
of the pandemic that we're in right now
of loneliness.
Like, we're more connected than ever and
more performative than ever at the same
time. So, we we can't really connect.
Our brains are wired for 120, 130 person
tribe.
And we we start getting over that and we
have massive issues.
It's interesting that a lot of the time
the
person has been subsumed by the persona.
The role that people are playing.
>> Yeah.
But the persona is incapable of
receiving love, it can only receive
praise at best.
And it feels like a pat on the back. The
same as people don't love Chris
Hemsworth, they love Thor.
They don't love Russell Crowe, they love
Gladiator. So,
how can you be surprised if you don't
genuinely existentially feel the
connection with your pursuits and your
successes and
the people around you.
You know that they're just applauding
the role that you play as opposed to
seeing who you are truly. Yeah.
Have you seen the movie Pig with
Nicholas Cage? No. You got to watch
that. Even if you watch this one scene,
it's like 5 minutes long. Nicholas Cage
plays this guy who's just
kind of had enough and he stopped
performing forever. Like he doesn't
care.
Uh he's not mean or anything. Just
doesn't perform. And he goes to this
restaurant, he's a famous chef and he's
exiled and stuff.
And this chef is just pretending to be a
certain type of person so that his
restaurant is more successful.
And Nicholas Cage just basically says,
"None of this is real.
You're not real, which means they're not
real and none of this everything's fake.
Everything here is completely fake.
And you're going to wake up every day
and there's going to be less of you and
less of you until there's nothing left
that you will ever recognize again."
>> [gasps]
>> And it it's this massive awakening scene
for this guy and it's beautiful. And I
think when people watch it, they assume,
"Oh, I'm in I'm in the Nick Cage role."
>> Yeah. Mhm. Uh and maybe sometimes in our
life we are, but I think in other times
we need to be
kind of shaken awake and somebody grabs
our little camera and changes our camera
angle to look at a situation
differently.
I want to be woken up like that in every
possible way.
Um
and I think that's that's what we all
need.
Is brainwashing real? What's true and
false about
that?
Brainwashing is absolutely real. There's
a four-step process
and it spells out the word fear.
Um it's focus,
emotion,
agitation, and repetition.
So, if we start with focus,
this is me routinely breaking what you
are predicting to be what's going to
happen next over and over and over in a
massive amount. One or two times, this
is what triggers a mammal brain our
mammal brain and a dog.
You're walking down a pathway in the
woods and a stick breaks behind a tree.
You're like, what
was that? You're not worried about
anything else. So, the fastest way to
generate human focus or mammal focus is
novelty. Some
genuine thing happens that you didn't
expect. So, that's the first. That's
what we generate mass amount of focus.
And then it's emotion.
And with emotion, there's some there's
an old hypnosis technique that came that
became popular in the '50s. This guy
named Dr. Milton Erickson popularized
this thing called fractionation.
So, if you
And
you'll be familiar with like Channel 4
and Derren Brown. I know a lot of
Americans aren't, but he he's kind of a
there's no American
equivalent of Derren Brown. Oz maybe the
closest? Pullman? Yeah. Oz Pullman,
yeah.
So, they figured out like if I pull
somebody down in hypnosis and then take
them gently out of it, when I put them
right back down in. So, this is in quick
succession. I take you out of hypnosis
and then I put you back into hypnosis
again, you'll go deeper every time.
And there's no such thing as depth in
hypnosis. What they essentially mean is
you'll have more GABA. You know what
GABA is? It's a neurotransmitter in your
system like the safety chemical.
And you'll also have
a higher degree of theta wave brain
state.
And if I could just keep going up and
then back down and up and then back
down, you're deeper and deeper and
deeper in a hole every single time.
So, if you look at your feed, anybody
out there, you open whatever feed you
want on any whatever app you're thinking
of right now. You kind of scroll through
your feed, you're going to see stuff
that kind of brings you back up, but
only for a second or two.
And then it's fear and scarcity.
And it follows the thing of getting your
focus,
showing you an authority figure telling
you something threatening, making you
fearful of judgment of a tribe, and then
making you emotional, and then bringing
you back up, and then back down in that
cycle. So, it's focus, authority, tribe,
and emotion. You'll see it in your feed,
guaranteed.
And you don't even need to
You don't even need to scroll for like 5
minutes. You'll see it right away.
And then it'll be like one little thing
to kind of bring you up like um
one of those videos where the people are
like, "Oh, we just found this baby deer
on our porch one day, and we decided to
bottle-feed him and raise him." And
then, you know, it's like a a fast cut
to where like he's a giant deer like
sleeping in the kids' bed or something,
and he's like a family member now.
It's like a heartwarming video that that
feels and I I love watching those.
But it feels great, and then bam, they
pull you back down again into the cycle.
But what you'll notice after you see
that fear video at the end of the focus,
authority, tribe, and emotion, right at
the end of that, they're either going to
A, bring you up, or B, show you an ad.
I've never heard anybody talk about this
before, but you can absolutely see it.
And I'm not immune. Like I've bought
stupid [ __ ] on Instagram like anybody
else. Knowing about this like doesn't
get you vaccinated against manipulation.
I bought the dumbest [ __ ] in the world
on Instagram.
It just means I'm a I'm a good
well-informed victim of this stuff.
But that's the the core of brainwashing
is focus, emotion. That's the
fractionation part of up and down.
Then agitation. So, this is doing
something to where the mammalian brain
recognizes this is a different
environment than I was expecting. Not a
thing that's happening.
So, now the landscape is changing. The
oil prices are going up. This big thing
is happening. There's a shortage of some
critical resource.
And then repetition.
So, if it's in
a
detainee environment, if the massive
focus is them being woken up in the
middle of the night over and over by
strobe lights and loud sounds, cold
water, that kind of stuff, then the
emotion, the entire time you're sitting
there in your prison cell or whatever,
uh I've got every photo your family's
ever posted on the internet playing on a
slideshow using a projector on the wall.
So, focus, emotion, then agitation.
Something is extremely disrupting to
your ability to predict the future.
That's agitation, and then repetition,
the cycle begins again.
And you can kind of do whatever you
want. That That process creates a blank
slate in people, and that's like the
That's like the baseline
formula of of how brainwashing works.
And that is exactly what social media is
using.
Yes, but I think a lot of people think,
"Oh, there's some
dark conference table, dudes smoking
cigars, like, how do How can we How can
we really mess these people up?" I don't
think it's that at all. I think it's
just an algorithm that's rewarding
what's creating the most revenue.
So, like, showing you an ad for
shoes is way easier after you watch the
little baby deer video, or after I make
you think that the water supplies get
being destabilized.
So,
I think it's just
an algorithm. I think there's many other
things where there's people involved in
manipulating the public. I don't think
that social media is doing that on
purpose. That That one piece of it.
The piece that I do absolutely think is
being done on purpose
is if you're on the left and you open
your feed, you're going to be shown the
dumbest piece of [ __ ] idiots on the
other side that they could possibly
find.
And if you're on the right, you're going
to be seeing the exact same thing about
people on the left.
And at the number one goal being you and
in the deepest part of your mind, you
cannot help but make a permanent
judgment about reality of those people
are effing crazy. All of them are crazy.
I can't trust them. I can't listen to
them.
And this is a a campaign that I think is
called engineered division.
And if I can get people fighting
horizontally, they're not going to look
up. If I can get somebody destabilized
and kind of
at ends at odds with each other, you're
not your ability to think critically is
reduced by like 50%. This is massive and
they've shown this in many studies.
And
just getting someone destabilized in
that way where they're kind of fighting
each other, they're distrustful of their
neighbors, they're 10 times more easy to
manipulate.
So, if you think of like how our brain
works, if you're falling off a cliff,
your arms and legs are going to flail
all over the place. They're moving
everywhere.
The first solid object that touches your
body, you're going to
like instinctively grab onto it. Even if
it's a thorn bush or barbed wire, you'll
you'll grab it.
So, when it when a population is
destabilized
and something clear and logical is
presented, something like a prepackaged
enemy,
I'll just leave that there.
is given to you,
it you're 10 times more likely to accept
it.
Because it's clear, it's prepackaged,
and it's easy to follow.
And humans do not ever follow like the
best leader in in a situation. They
follow the most followable.
And there's a big difference between
those things.
Um So, destabilization that would be
step number one. And and two Chinese
intelligence officers wrote a paper on
this.
Uh it's called I think it's called
unrestricted warfare. It's been
translated into English. And they use a
hypothetical country
that really looks like the United States
uh in this paper.
But they talk about this asymmetric
warfare
and how we have to get them fighting
each other. We have to make them
distrustful of each other and we
destabilize the government from the
inside cuz we can't
we can't win a terrestrial war with
these people.
Uh and they they all of this is just
written out there. You could buy this
probably on Amazon for like three or
four bucks. The this translated book.
It's probably online, too.
But it's very it's very open that it's
not just like it's not like
the normal bad guys that you hear about.
These are foreign state actors that are
doing some of this stuff. We just had a
former mayor of a city
in California, I believe, that
that was proven to be a operative for
China.
A mayor.
And
it So, I I think people are thinking
like there's some
ancient rich family,
uh you know, in the depths of some cave
somewhere plotting the destruction of
the world. I think it's just countries
that hate each other and greedy, selfish
companies.
Um
and maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but
if you're watching the news and you
don't hear nuance,
you are being manipulated.
Cuz you're they're giving you a message
there's here's the enemy.
Here's how to feel about what you're
watching on the news, and here's exactly
what's happening, and they'll tell you
that this this and this all these three
things happened. They'll never tell you
how they're connected. They'll act like
everything's a separate story.
So,
uh I think there's an agenda. I I won't
pretend I I'd be a fool to say that I I
can understand or know the end game of
any of this stuff. Mhm. That was a
long-ass answer to your question.
>> [laughter]
>> What makes a leader followable?
Yeah.
Uh there are
authority first, the perception of
authority.
And we trust, in order, there are five
things that make us trust another human
being.
Uh first is confidence.
So, the person is doesn't have any
reservations. They're talking clearly.
They're speaking in a way that I can
clearly understand. They're not using
academic language.
Uh which is why most presidents the
president who has speaks at a lower
grade level is I think like 35% more
likely to win a debate.
>> [snorts]
>> So, that makes them followable, right?
Confidence and literacy like it's clear
clear to understand them. They're very
confident.
Next is discipline.
And I don't mean that this the person is
like making videos of themselves waking
up and like, "Hey, here's my morning
routine."
But, I mean like we can see discipline
on people. We can see somebody that has
self-control and discipline and that
starts coming through. We get we can
pick up on that.
And then leadership. And for good for
good or bad, there's cult leaders that
have all these problem or all these
qualities, too.
Uh gratitude and enjoyment.
The gratitude just being like I'm
thankful for what's happening right now
in the moment. My I'm emotionally
stable. I'm easy to follow.
But, we're not really going into all
that. Our brain's shortcut is that we
follow someone who is
probably loudest, clearest, and has no
hesitation in their behavior. So, our
brains are trained to look for micro
hesitations and automatically give us a
little gut feeling of oh, I shouldn't
trust that person. So, micro hesitations
are the fastest way to destroy
authority.
In both of those scenarios that you just
described,
the world being chaotic, difficult,
and confusing,
and something being offered up as order.
In
one example, it's an enemy that's
prepackaged.
There's order. Why is this going bad? It
could be a million reasons or it could
be that group over there.
And the same thing for leaders,
I don't understand what's going to
happen. We've got all of these different
directions that we could go down. Don't
worry.
All of that chaos doesn't need to be
worried about because I have the order
and I can wrangle this system to bring
it to bear. Yeah.
For better or worse. And that's what
happens.
And if you just the way that I describe
this very simply
is the process is to
close down a machine
or close close everything down
build pressure inside of it and then
decide where the pressure is going to
release.
So, it's a it's a controlled release of
pressure that's been being built up on
purpose.
And sometimes that is like the pressure
is some relief. Like we have this
national thing that's happening and the
pressure release is chosen at a certain
point. And there's a lot of uh people
that say you like track the money. If
you track pressure, like financial
pressure, economic pressure uh shipping
and trade pressure, oil uh shipping
around the world, tracking the pressure
is always more
revealing from an intelligence
perspective than tracking the money.
This pressure's going to show you like
it has to have a release valve
somewhere. And nine times out of 10
there's
there is a person or group of people
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What's the outcome you think that those
people want?
Like
like the they? Yeah, the they. If there
is
part of this is social media algorithms
have reverse-engineered the way that
humans' brains work, because it's a very
simple algorithm. It's super simple. And
the fact that it's simple is why it's so
effective, because if you started to put
constraints on it, you would be trying
to predict the best way to get the
outcome that you want. The best way to
get the outcome that you want is to just
let it optimize for that outcome and
reverse-engineer however it got that.
>> Yeah. That's why we can complain all we
want about the algorithms, but even the
engineers, you open up the black box of
YouTube, you open up the black box of
TikTok,
they don't know what's happening inside
of that. There is no knowing about
what's happening inside of that. This is
just recursive algorithms training
itself. Yeah. Interestingly, the coolest
thing I learned about this is from
Stuart Russell, guy that wrote the
textbook on AI, so up until probably
2020 when the transformer technology and
LLMs came along. It may still be the
case. I know he's still talking about
this a lot. I think his textbook had
been translated into 100 languages. So,
it was it was used around the world. It
was the canonical textbook for AI,
Stuart Russell. He wrote this book
called Human Compatible.
He's talking about computers, humans,
some psychology, a lot of AI and and and
computer science.
He said that there's two ways that
algorithms can become better at
predicting what it is that you're going
to click on.
The first one is serving you content
which is more akin to something that you
want to press, right? Like if you all
that you're trying to optimize is CTR
and watch time, basically, which is kind
of every every algorithm now.
>> [gasps]
>> I can just better predict what it is
that you want and give you that.
The other side is I can nudge your
preferences to make them easier to
predict.
So, it's a bidirectional relationship.
And it's not like anybody told the black
box algorithm to go and do this, but
over time it knows, "Hey, if I walk
people down this sequence of steps." And
this is where I think the truth about
pipelines and radicalization comes
along. But, it's not necessarily
radicalization to an extreme of one
particular world view, it's an extreme
of predictability.
Yeah. And this bidirectional
relationship between becoming better at
working out what you want to click and
becoming better at making you more
predictable to work out your
preferences, Yeah. that is really I
mean, it's when he told me about it,
it blew my mind. It's one of the most
mind-blowing things that I've ever
heard. Dude, I I've got to read this
because [ __ ] spectacular, eh?
When when I teach uh like persuasion and
influence, I'm actually here in in town
today teaching. I was I've been on stage
all morning uh doing a
like a seminar You need a new title.
That's what you need. Yeah.
So, when I teach, I what I'm telling
people is your first goal is being able
to engineer and build the perfect
client.
So, I'm I'm make the person the perfect
recipient for what I need to give them.
Mhm.
So, if I know the outcome is I need you
to click on baby deer videos,
I'm going to engineer the [ __ ] out of
that to where I'm not going to like just
start showing them to you. I'm going to
make you the perfect recipient
before I start shifting your behavior.
So, the the way that I
typically describe this is if you learn
persuasion, interrogation, sales,
whatever it is,
they're going to teach you how to
engineer outcomes because people are
obsessed with the outcome.
But, I argue that if you're good, what
you engineer are conditions.
And if I can engineer the right
conditions, I can get you to do
anything. Mhm. Anything.
And just as an example just of how
powerful conditions and context are,
I think it was in the 1940s,
this uh like stage hypnotist guy
is doing like a comedy club thing, you
know, where like, "Oh, the guy next to
you farted and it smells really bad.
You're on a roller coaster now." And
there's like all of this stuff where
there's like
10 or 15 people up on stage.
>> [gasps]
[snorts]
>> And then a part of the show is, "All
right, all of you are cops.
You got called to a party. Everybody in
the audience is a party right now.
And the more the audience laughs, the
more you're going to get upset."
So,
they get up and they're not allowed to
leave the stage, so they're all kind of
yelling like pretending like these kids
are like a house party or something.
Then he's like, "Oh, one of them's got a
gun. He's going to take you down." And
one of these guys on the stage is an
off-duty police officer uh carrying a
weapon, starts firing in into the crowd,
a real gun.
>> [gasps]
>> Um and I think one person was in I don't
know I don't know if he died, but
it shot a real gun into a crowd.
The cop was a good person,
well-meaning,
just wanted to go out with his wife, uh
you know, for an evening.
>> [snorts]
>> But context can dictate your behavior no
matter what.
Like we're going to
probably both you and I, not together,
but we will get naked by the end of the
day, both of us. But
the day is young.
The day is young.
We're going to get into a shower, get
into a bath, whatever.
Um
but we're not like as we're standing in
front of the shower, we're not like,
"Oh, I don't know if I should." We're
just we just get naked, right?
So context
context tells us what's allowed.
So if I can modify context, I can get
you to do anything. Mhm.
All I have to do is it's a PCP formula.
I change your perception about the
situation that's going on.
Then I say, "Yeah, since you're viewing
this differently, it's actually this
situation where people are trying to do
X."
Or I reframe this as someone is a a
complete threat. But I've changed your
perception of what's possible to do.
Then the con- uh the context is so a
some person is a threat.
And they're they are a mortal Now I say
the word mortal. They're a mortal
threat. So I've changed the category.
And if I shift category and context,
that changes what you think you're
allowed to do and what you're not
allowed to do.
Does that make sense?
So like if I if I'm in a perfect world,
the only question, like if you're really
good at this stuff, like a lot of these
systems are
what is the context
where the behavior I want you to do is
automatic?
What is the context? So if I can make
you believe that you're in a shooting
range and you're actually standing in a
bar, you're going to your behavior is
going to be very different.
So what you're what you're really seeing
over time is a is a drift of perception
and then context. So with this PCP,
perception, context, and permission.
Permission is that final thing that
says, "Oh, in this context I'm I'm
completely allowed to do this and it
makes perfect sense."
So a lot of what we're seeing is context
engineering.
So
if if you look at the Milgram
experiment, which I think a lot of
people are familiar with, essentially
some they proved that you people will
shock strangers what they think is to
death in about 47 minutes.
At a 70% success rate or
failure rate, whatever you want to call
that.
Um but they didn't have a script.
There wasn't some magic sales script
where they where they brought them in
and they had the right words to say in
the in the magic hypnosis guy that comes
in there. It's just a dude in a lab
coat.
And all they did in the Milgram
experiment is engineer the conditions
that make it okay. The context made made
that shocking behavior uh permissible.
You mentioned there about people
or
technologies that are unbelievably good
at manipulating behavior.
When it comes to seeing operators,
people,
who's the most effective behavioral
manipulator that you've ever seen
operate in front of you?
I can't say names. Uh the guy is uh
I think he's still active, but um
he could get
pretty much any but any do anything, but
he shifted the context. So what the the
task that I gave him is go into this
social very social environment. There's
like a band playing and it's like a bar,
like a pub.
>> This is a real thing. Yeah.
And I said, "I want you to have someone
let's say laid out on the floor
thinking that they're just completely
unconscious in like 7 minutes.
And I didn't I couldn't hear anything
that was being said and he
did it. He did it within like 3 4
minutes.
And
I asked him I said, "What did you do?"
He's like, "Oh, I just told her I was a
hypnotherapist and I asked what she
wanted to how she wanted to change her
life and she was really really excited
that she wanted more discipline and I
just told her I would give her more
discipline and it's really easy.
So, he shifted the context to her being
helped instead of controlled. Mhm. Um
and
and made it okay for her to be laying on
the floor and made everything okay just
cuz he shifted the context.
Um
it's the same in interrogation rooms to
where the context shifts and there's
like a five-step protocol that people
use to make someone confess to a crime.
And if you really examine what the
protocol is, it's just a massive shift
in context and perception. What's the
protocol?
You ready? Yes.
So, it's a socialize, minimize,
rationalize, and project.
>> [clears throat]
>> Is that not four?
Yeah, it's four steps and then there's
an alternative question at the end. Is
it this or this?
So,
just like name a name a crime that's not
gross that we can actually talk about.
Anything you want like stolen money.
>> Texting while driving.
Okay, texting while Well, they're not
going to be in an interrogation room.
Okay, yeah, cool. Uh uh uh um
smuggling arms. Okay, smuggling arms.
Great. All right, so the first step
would be social.
>> [ __ ] interrogation room for texting
while driving.
>> [laughter]
>> There's just armies of interrogators up
and down the United States highways.
Okay. It was it might solve the problem.
Okay, so
smuggling arms.
So, you're talking to this person and
you decided that it's time to shift into
interrogation. The beginning of an
interrogation is called interview
process and that the shift is called the
confrontation.
So, the confrontation uh
is basically just where you tell them
like you're that they're lying, but you
don't do it in a way that hurts their
ego.
Uh so, I might say something like,
"Chris,
I appreciate you, and I just want you to
know I've been doing this a really long
time. I've I've talked to a lot of
people.
And if there's if there's one thing I
know for sure, it's when I'm not getting
the full story.
And I don't think I'm getting the full
story here."
And then I go right into the socialize
part of this thing.
And when I say socialize, it's basically
people will understand. So, the line is,
"I think at the end of the day,
um
you did this because you're a good
person. And I'm going to explain why.
And I've talked to a lot of bad people,
and I know you're not a bad person. And
I think when people see all the steps
that led up to you getting wrapped up in
this that they're going to understand.
Then minimize.
And like I said, I don't think you're a
bad guy.
And And to be honest, I deal with bad
people all the time, and people that
have done way worse stuff than this.
I've seen people that have done way
worse than this get completely over it.
So, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not
Nobody's accusing you of being some mass
murderer or something like that. This is
not the same thing.
Then it's rationalize.
I know you came from a a poor village.
I know that you had a really tough
background, and I know that you're a
good person.
And I'm not saying whether or not you
were doing this to pay for it, but I
know that your aunt has several hundred
thousand dollars in medical bills that
she's needed to pay.
Now, I project.
So, now project is basically it's not
your fault.
And
I think anybody that was handed your
conditions and your life would have
probably made the same choices that you
did.
And
there's I know a lot of times these arms
smuggling rings will use threats and
pressure to get someone into the unit.
So, if that happened to you, I just want
you to know that's something that I want
to know about so I know that you didn't
like deliberately decide to do this.
And then we move into the alternative
question.
And I'll say, "So, Chris,
what I'm really trying to find out here
is
were you doing this just to make a bunch
of money and then go buy a bunch of
drugs and live in some other country or
you really like trying to help one of
your family members?
Cuz I know these guys have been talking
to you and I've looked into you as well
and it doesn't look like you're a bad
person.
So, now it's an alternative question of
are you a piece of crap or did you try
to do something good for your family?
So, that's
>> Both of them are admissions of guilt,
though.
Yeah. Yeah. We're just trying to find
out the reason that this happened.
You're not. You're trying to find out an
admission of guilt. Yes. Yes. But in the
in the conversation we're trying to find
out the reason it happened.
>> [snorts]
>> So, we're going for the admission of
guilt because the the first part of the
interrogation we there's like a long
series of questions we ask and based on
those responses, if they respond a
certain way to each question,
then we move towards the
uh confession methodology. Mhm.
So, they're and they're basic questions
like um
if if I if there was a robbery or in
some neighborhood here
uh can I say the city that we're in? Of
course. Okay. So, let's say like
two blocks away and maybe yeah, two
blocks from here there's a neighborhood
in Austin
and there's a there's a neighborhood
there and let's say you robbed a house.
One of those questions to determine how
guilty you are is one of my favorite
questions in the world. It's called the
bait question.
And it basically says
um let's let's imagine you did this. I
want to put you in the mindset so you
can understand the question.
Let's say you you
stole a bike out of this person's garage
a couple days ago.
I called you up and was like, "Hey, I
think you might have seen something
that's going to help us in the case.
Could you please come in here and talk
to us about the about the case?"
You come in
and I say, "Chris, dude, thank you for
for coming in.
Uh
this is important to us. We've got
officers out there that they've been
working all through the night uh
collecting evidence and stuff. I just
want to ask you one question and
you seem like a really good guy. So, I
want you to think really carefully
before you answer this.
Is there any reason
whatsoever that one of the neighbors
would have a Ring doorbell camera
that shows your vehicle in that area?
So, now you're confronted with a dilemma
of
if I say no and he whoops out a video,
now I'm a liar and they probably know
that I did this.
If I say yes, I'm at I'm placing myself
at the scene of the crime, right?
And the cool thing is that someone who's
innocent would be like, "Nope."
And you'd be instantly they would have
no hesitation, they'd have tons of
confidence of, "Nope, there's absolutely
no reason."
So, that's one of those those kind of
setup questions. And another one
>> of whether you've got the Ring doorbell
footage or not. Yes, and I don't say
that I have it.
Is there any reason why? Yes. Is there
any reason that one of the officers
would have received some Ring
doorbell or some doorbell video camera
footage that shows your vehicle in that
area?
Not you do anything bad.
Um and another one is an another great
question. I can't reveal all these, but
another great question is called the
punishment question.
And this works on kids.
It works on adults, it doesn't matter.
And it's just a few words long.
I would say,
"What do you think should happen to the
person that did this?"
And you'll always get amazing answers.
I'll give you my kids' example.
>> [laughter]
>> And this is from when they were
uh 7 and 8, give or take.
I came home from work in like my camo uh
uniform.
And we had a white living room rug, and
there's like a little cardboard thing of
chocolate milk just like sitting on its
side, and there's like a little pool of
chocolate milk on the carpet.
And they're both playing the Xbox. The
milk's like right there, a few feet
away. I was like, "What What the hell?
Guys?"
They're like, "Oh, I don't know."
And I was like, "Did you guys do this?"
And they're like, "Nope." And I said,
"All right, William, kitchen, Charlotte,
dining room."
[ __ ] prisoner Prisoner's dilemma.
Yeah.
>> [laughter]
>> And I went over to um
Charlotte.
Yeah, it was Charlotte. And I said,
"Charlotte, what do you think should
happen to the person that did this?"
And she goes, "Spankings, grounded, no
more Xbox, can't play with the friends,
no more sleepovers, can't eat in the
living room anymore." It just goes on
and on. And I was like, "Okay. All
right."
>> It's a kids' equivalent of capital
punishment. Yeah, and I was like,
"Damn."
So, I went to William, and I said,
"Will, what do you think should happen
to the person that did this?" And he
goes, "Uh maybe no more chocolate milk
in the living room?"
And there we go. I had I had my guy.
Really quick. Have you ever seen those
videos of when there's three dogs in the
house, and one of them's ripped the [ __ ]
out of a a
couch or something, and two of them are
just sort of looking like this, and the
other one's got his face up against the
wall? Yeah. [laughter]
It is so good.
I want to see dog interrogation videos,
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so when it comes to
building rapport,
what are the techniques that elite
negotiators use to create rapport
quickly?
Uh number one is making an admission
that other people might be embarrassed
about.
Of some of having a fault of some kind
or being insecure about something.
Revealing something. Yeah. Uh just being
something that's honest and true. So
it's it resonates.
What would be an example?
Um
It It would depend on the situation, but
I might say something like, you know,
>> Like bike stolen. Let's stay with that.
With the stolen bike or the arms,
whichever you want. Well, yeah. So
you're talking about interrogation room
rapport? Yeah. Oh, okay, that's
different. Well, actually, stick with
the normal rapport and then we'll go
back to interrogation room.
>> Yeah. So normal rapport, the admission
might be
um you know, I was
I was so like in my own head. I was so
afraid to be open around other people
and I kind of like wore a mask for the
like 10, 15 years of my life until I
realized like it's it's not a big deal
as I think it is. I'm not a big deal as
I I I thought I was.
And just saying something that other
people really wouldn't and being honest
about it is one of the one of the
fastest ways to make trust start
happening in a conversation because just
people are so fake that that is somehow
rare now.
And and that's that's why I think
podcasts where there's a genuine dude on
there get more views than CNN.
I think Rogan's got more views than CNN.
Um but at the end of the day
that's one of the fastest ways to do it.
Uh another one of the fastest ways to do
it in in this world is to have ignorance
and fascination about something that you
pride yourself in knowing a lot about.
So like if you're an electrical engineer
or something or
you know, some you're maybe you wire
podcast studios for a living. I'd be
like, "God, that's that's always
fascinated me with all that stuff. I
don't think I could do that if I
if I tried for a year. I'm just not
inclined to do that, but it's still
fascinating."
That's one of the fastest ways to
absolutely do that.
And
I think I do think rapport is a little
bit overrated.
I think it at the end of the day
having contagious confidence to where
that your confidence is high enough
where the other person feels confident
is so much more effective and rapport is
a byproduct of that. Mhm. So I always
try to think like, "What is upstream of
the thing that I want?"
So if I want this as my desired end
state
what are all the things that needed to
happen to make this just an automatic
byproduct of what I want at at the end
of the day?
And one of the things that we found out
over these years is it in an
interrogation room or in some business
setting, it doesn't actually matter is
this level of confidence without any
hierarchy or status.
And the the biggest mistake that most
people make is like if I say the word
confidence, you're going to think more
than who?
Or higher than or less less confidence
than.
Uh and that hierarchy thinking is the
fastest way to collapse any kind of
skill in human beings because it pushes
your awareness back behind your eyes.
And I think when you're it if your
awareness is in front of your eyes,
people can really really feel that.
And one metaphor I use to talk about
this a lot is if I could go on a slight
rant here.
If you went into like we're in Austin,
so there's probably a piano store
somewhere. Like let's say you and I went
into like a big ass piano store.
And they've got this big grand piano
there. And
I go up to the piano and I smash down
the middle key really hard, which is a
C.
It's going to send out this frequency
through the entire store.
And the C string on every other piano is
going to start resonating like crazy.
But it's only that string is going to
vibrate.
It's cuz it's tuned to that frequency,
right? It's not going to vibrate any
other strings except for C. The same
thing works for tuning forks.
So when I
teach this stuff, it's
that humans work almost exactly the same
way.
And one of the phrases that I teach is
wherever you're speaking from is where
you're going to speak to in other
people. Where you speak from, you will
speak to.
So if we're in a conversation and I'm
worried about hierarchy and status,
I'm I'm plucking that same chord in in
the person I'm speaking to.
Is it that comes through. If I'm very
confident and not insecure confidence,
posturing uh kind of stuff.
Um
that's going to trigger confidence in
the other person.
So true confidence is really contagious.
And the other confidence like where you
can tell somebody's like read 15 of
those LinkedIn articles like oh how to
display CEO level confidence.
Make solid eye contact, firm handshake,
pat somebody on the arm, use their name,
that kind of [ __ ]
Um
genuine confidence makes other people
confident.
Absolutely.
And having enough confidence to share
without ever
viewing it in in the lens of hierarchy
and status is the fastest way to like
this whatever people call charisma. I
think it's the fastest route.
How do you think about appearing
confident in a room?
Can you rephrase that?
What are the component parts of
appearing confident to somebody?
Well, what we're really doing like if
you read one of those articles about
like how confident people command a room
and all that there's YouTube videos all
all day long for that stuff.
What I think they're made of
is they're studying
the symptoms of confidence.
So, if I wrap you in a heating blanket
and squirt water in your nose it does
not give you COVID
but it gives you a couple of symptoms,
right?
It it doesn't work in reverse all the
time. So, what I think a lot of those
people that train online is
they're they see somebody who's
genuinely confident and like oh what are
they doing with their body? They're
standing up straight.
Uh they're speaking from their
diaphragm. They're doing all of these
things. They they use hand gestures like
this.
And then okay they're like okay let's
make an Excel spreadsheet out of this.
We're going to figure this [ __ ] out.
Like all right, how how wide was the
hand gesture? Like let me check it's 36
inches. Yeah, it was 36.
So, then we train somebody to do this
with their hands at 36 inches and
they've got social anxiety and
they're going to look like an idiot.
It's not going to look congruent. It's
It's to feel like whoa what's going on
with this guy?"
So, I think our culture is just obsessed
with symptoms in general. Like, I want
the Ferrari and the yacht
and I don't want the bank account. I
mean, I I want the symptoms of being
wealthy. I want to show people that I
have symptoms of wealth.
But, if you if you look at the cause of
confidence and
I think my definition of confidence is
way different than what you'll read
online, but
I think confidence is two elements.
Number one,
it is a willingness to receive social
injury.
I'm willing to be socially injured.
Mhm.
Number two,
it is a generalized or or kind of a
fuzzy
belief that things are going to work out
okay.
Things are going to be okay.
So, that social injury is typically why
people can't feel confident. So, it's
social injury or permission. I don't
have permission to be like that here. If
I make 50K a year, I'm not going to be
confident walking into that Hermes
Hermes
whatever, Louis Vuitton luggage
>> Not a shopping yeah. uh place.
>> [laughter]
>> A [ __ ] Gucci. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Whatever.
And the confidence comes from like
permission. I don't have permission to
be here. They can tell that I'm not from
here. So, that's a role-based
permission.
But, if you're willing to receive social
injury, you're totally fine with it. You
have a generalized expectation that
things are going to be okay. That is the
first step to like really feeling
confident and completely eliminating
hierarchy and status from your mental
thoughts forever, for the rest of your
life. I think is the best way. Because
it's not related to how you and somebody
else interact. It's within you. Yeah,
absolutely. I feel like this is going to
go okay. And if social rejection does
come my way,
I'm fine with it.
>> Yeah, it's a social injury and I'm
that's okay. It might hurt. Mhm. I'm not
saying I'm immune to any of it. It might
hurt, but I'm okay. I'm happy to receive
it.
What do you make of Trump's behavior?
How do you analyze him as a
communicator?
Uh he's fabulous communicator.
I think he speaks at a I think a seventh
grade level.
A lot of good leaders speak at a low
level. I think Obama was seventh or
eighth grade level as well.
But why do they do that?
Because they will become more
followable.
Like exactly what we're talking about
with authority and why we follow
authority figures in in times of
distress.
And [snorts]
I think he's
a communicator that is obviously
self-serving,
self-fulfilling.
And people call him a narcissist, that's
which is a a diagnostic term for
insurance companies, which is why that
was invented.
But uh you say whatever you want, but
he is I think he's a great communicator.
I think he gets the point across.
He's just he's
very idiosyncratic. He's weird. He does
stuff that other people don't do. He
breaks from a lot of the norms.
Um
but the communication is effective. Why
is it effective though? Like how does he
get so much attention? Well, one, he's
kind of loud, but number two, it's
novelty.
We talked like novelty massively
generates focus in human beings. And
he's like a novelty master.
He's a magician of novelty.
So [gasps]
he's the dude when it comes to that. And
he
is not the clearest communicator
when it comes to like long vision and
plans and stuff like that, but he says
things that are followable. He has ideas
that are very easy to follow.
Man, Shane Gillis did a bit about him
talking about Baghdadi when Baghdadi
Have you seen it?
It's one of the best videos on YouTube.
But it it was just hilarious how simply
it was absolutely simple how he
communicated everything and it painted a
picture in your head. Yeah.
Uh and he did it in a way that didn't
have to use a literary, flowery, poetry
language and all of that, but it put a
very clear picture in your head when he
said that stuff.
>> [snorts]
>> It's interesting to think about how
distinctive
someone's voice is. And it's
it's typical that a lot of people that
have massive cultural influence have a
distinctive If you can do an impression
of someone,
probably a good indication they've got
quite a distinctive voice. Yeah. Can do
an impression of Jordan Peterson
quite easily. Yeah.
>> Very distinctive voice.
Can do an impression of Andrew Tate
quite easily. Yeah.
>> Very distinctive voice distinctive
distinctive speaking cadence,
repetition,
this Russell Brand. Unnecessarily
verbose and articulate. Yeah.
>> Sort of meandering sentences.
Listicle style. With Trump, sort of
punchy thing. Uh superfluous
restatement of the past point
with embellishment and a little bit of
bravado.
Uh
Obama, staccato.
Very sharp.
Yeah. Well, it's this. And then it's
this. Yeah.
Uh you know, just I I think that there's
something to be said about a signature
style.
Sometimes, much of the time, maybe most
of the time,
the impressions that someone does about
another person typically not that
flattering. And not Most impressions
aren't done to pay a compliment to
someone. Yeah.
But if someone can do an impression of
you easily,
you kind of own an area of verbal real
estate.
I have this. If you do that, like is
that [ __ ] Kermit the Frog or Jordan
Peterson? I can't work it out, but it's
one of them.
Yeah. I know it's one of them in there.
And if you do a Trump, even a bad Trump
impression, I know that's Trump.
Actually, that's a good judge of how
effective someone is as a rhetorician
and of having a distinctive and
signature style of speaking.
How easily can someone do an impression
of you?
How far away from the way that you speak
can I do an impression and the person
I'm saying it to still understand the
person that I'm doing it about? Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? That's a cool rule
of thumb. Yeah, and it's like the the
novelty aspect and the the uniqueness of
the voice.
>> Distinctiveness is a huge part, I think.
>> It's like the facial features are to a
caricature artist.
You know, like I all these individual
weird unique things about the face and
I'm going to exaggerate them for a
caricature.
I guess the same same kind of thing. And
that voice is like a a good trademark.
You If you have that unique voice, it's
it's fantastic for a trademark.
>> This is why I need to get 11 Labs to
give me my voice back. Yeah.
I'm on a campaign I'm on a crusade
against 11 Labs. They stole They stole
my voice. They stole my voice and now
everyone's using it in ads.
Uh
>> Oh, I've got I have at least two AI
channels of me popping up every day on
YouTube. It's unbelievable with my name.
Okay, that's different. That's slightly
different.
Uh
Oh, they're using your voice likeness.
Yeah. So
[ __ ]
They have a go-to British voice called
Archer and this has been around for a
while now. It's It's just trained on me.
It's been trained on me.
Uh it's got the same verbal ticks that I
have from the specific area in the
northeast of the UK that I'm from. It's
got glottal stops in certain words. It's
got the U sound words, yours.
Bizarre little idiosyncrasies and
phonetic idioms that I've got and
it's [ __ ] me and I
at some point in future I'm going to
shout at someone. The CEO was in Qatar
while I was there giving a speech. Oh,
it's one of the one of the C-suite was
there in Qatar and
I got stopped talking to the dude the
new CEO of Qatar Airways and I had this
thing in front of me and it was connect
with the guy that might be able to give
me a discount on flights on Qatar
Airways. I'll go and shout at the dude
from 11 Labs and like uh
uh
I'll take the flights. It's like deal or
no deal.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, that's good.
You want me to play it? Uh oh yeah,
yeah, [ __ ] play it. Like watch watch
this thing. Jay, you're a expert in
communication. Oh, yeah. Listen to this.
Massive searches, more than 200 million
dollars spent and on March 8th, 2026,
Ocean Infinity officially called off
their last search. The CEO, Oliver
Plunkett, essentially admitted what no
one in the official investigation wanted
to say. Maybe the plane simply isn't
where we've been looking. But one man
wasn't surprised. A journalist named
Jeff Wise had been saying exactly Your
th's.
When you say the th, it's very unique.
And it's got your th's.
>> I've also got a slight lisp that I work
against and it's got that too. So,
whoever the AI is, they [ __ ]
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You're talking there about building
confidence, but I'm interested in what
behaviors instantly reveal insecurity.
You mentioned micro pauses as one that
maybe not insecurity, but authority
and trustworthiness, perhaps? Yeah. What
are the behaviors that reveal
insecurity? So, when it comes to
insecurity,
let's go mammalian and then human. So,
the mammalian
uh fear response or insecurity response
is a reduced arm swing,
incomplete movements.
So, like I'm going to reach for this,
I'm going to stop, and then kind of
continue doing it, and then
the movements aren't completed. You'll
see a lot of that kind of stuff.
>> Mhm.
And you'll see reduced eye contact in a
downward motion, and biggest of all,
you're going to see the body moving or
staying in areas that protect arteries.
This means you'll see a lot less of
this. You'll see the humerus kind of sit
in a little bit closer to the body while
they're talking, so that the brachial
artery is protected. You'll see the
shoulders a little bit up in in social
situations, they'll stay a little
higher, their head coming down a little
bit
uh protecting the carotid arteries.
You'll see the arms in front of their
body like this. Sometimes, this is
called the fig leaf gesture,
um, named by Allan Pease. Cuz it's
covering the genitals.
>> Covering, yeah. Uh, interesting. But
it's also protecting the femoral
arteries at the same time.
And men are more likely to do that.
Women are more likely to wrap a single
arm around the abdomen like this while
they're talking during, like if they're
insecure. And this is protecting the
uterus area.
And
there are studies on this. I've no idea
who did the studies, but uh, this is
originally written about by a guy named
Desmond Morris, uh, who who just, I
think, died in the last month or two. He
was in his 90s, but he's like the first
researcher who wrote a book about really
observing humans as if they were
animals. Like what How do their How do
their body move? And
uh, so the book was called Naked Ape.
They're like us, and like the hairless
monkey.
And he studied He was like this savant
at human behavior.
But anyway, like when you're looking at
the insecure behaviors,
and you if you're looking at two people,
what you really want to look at,
especially if there's two people, is
which person needs something more from
the other person, and which person is
reacting to the other person.
The one thing Man, I'm hesitant to
reveal this.
The one thing
that I teach, uh, a lot of these venture
capital people, they'll they'll get
pitched a lot.
Uh, I've never been to one of the
pitches. I've been on the pitching side
quite a bit over the last 6 months, so I
know what this feels like.
>> The one thing that I teach them to look
for is what's called lip compression.
And we tend to do this at at times when
we
are we are withholding a little bit of
information, or we're withholding an
emotion.
So like you imagine like if your friend
started a new job and you're like, "Hey
dude, how's how's the new job?" And he
goes, "OH, IT'S GREAT."
>> [laughter]
>> SO
THAT LIP COMPRESSION IS WITHHOLDING.
So what I teach them to do is
watch for the compression. The moment
you see it, just rewind. What were they
just talking about right before you see
it? How's the financials in the
business?
>> Yeah. Says, "Oh, all the financials are
great. We've we've projected out a good
thing for the next couple of quarters."
And you'll see that just that little lip
compression is Is that lip compression
I'm always interested in why that
particular
expression or feature
is associated with that particular
motive or leak? What is it? Is it
It's It's our first way of withholding.
It's our first way to hold in milk.
Um like a tongue jut like after someone
tells a lie, they like there's something
call the tongue jut, that's very common,
like this.
This is our first no. It's a way to
force a nipple out of the mouth.
Uh and these are theories of Desmond
Morris's as well.
Um like this is our first way of
withholding
and keeping milk in the mouth and our
first no is pushing our our tongue out.
Or pursing our lips a little bit.
What? That's sick. Is that not cool?
Yeah. Is that not cool? It's kind of
amazing. Sorry, I'm enthralled in the
conversation. Is this not Are people
more bored usually? Because this is
boring. Okay, good. Yeah, I'm maybe I
expect you to be bored. It's boring to
me cuz I've been looking at it for like
10, 15
>> I'm British. You have to remember, you
have to filter it through the British
whatever this is. Yeah. Yeah. So that
That's our first no.
So tongue out of the mouth
that tongue jut is our first no.
There's a difference though between a
tongue sticking out really quick and
then a tongue licking the lips. Mhm. So
a tongue licking the lips is is called a
hygienic gesture.
So it's made to make somebody
more attractive. So, a hygienic gesture
might be me sitting up a little
straighter, like pulling my shirt down,
like rubbing lint off, licking my lips.
All those gestures that are made to look
us more attractive, those you want to
look for before someone starts talking.
So, if they know a topic's coming up,
like, all right, next we're going to get
into financials, and then you see
hygienic gestures before they start
talking.
So, typically you'll see hygienic
gestures so that they're improving their
appearance before the delivery of
something that might be questionable.
Mhm. You're trying to stack the deck in
their favor. Yeah. And there's no
behavior for deception. None.
There's no behavior for deception. What
does that mean? There is no behavior
that's like, this is deception. None.
Zero.
What we're measuring with behavior is A,
stress,
and B, changes.
Like, somebody says, oh, someone tapping
their finger all the time, uh or tapping
their finger means that they're
stressed, and that means they're lying.
That's That's total [ __ ] Absolute
[ __ ]
So, if I just tap my finger all day
long, what you need to look for is when
I stop.
>> I was going to say, you're just a finger
tapper. Yes. Yes. So, your first thing
that you need to do, like, and people
study body language a lot, and I could
save you 15 years of studying body
language. The only thing that you need
to get good at is detecting change.
And then learn a few little facial
things, or a few little tricks, but
you get really good at detecting a
change. This is the same as doing a
polygraph. They have to get a baseline
first.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And what you're doing is a
visual equivalent. Is that a fair
assessment?
>> Yeah. Visual and verbal uh equivalent of
all that.
>> What's the cadence that this person
speaks at? What's the volume that this
person speaks at?
>> Yeah. Or if they've been talking about
their kid that's missing on the news,
uh like, he's great, he's great, he's
great. And then all of a sudden they
say, how how do you think he's doing?
And they start using past tense words
all of a sudden
to describe their child who they think
or they're trying to say is currently
alive.
Uh and they're using past they shift
from present tense to past tense. He is
a good kid. He was a good kid. Like
those like shifts in tense and language
use are are really important.
And
when it comes to behavior there's none
for deception. You got to look for
change context.
So like
somebody says, "Oh, well his arms went
into his torso." I'll be like, "Well,
did it get colder? Did someone open a
door and it's 50° in the room?"
So context is really important.
>> Was he hungry?
Yeah.
>> [snorts]
>> And then clusters. So like one behavior
is not
that much to like if if you're in
something that's high stakes, you want
to look for a mountain of behaviors.
So like his breathing rate increased, we
had pupil dilation, he licked his lips,
and he was tapping his finger that he
did hadn't done before, and his language
shifted.
He started becoming more He lost his
verbal fluency. So he's more hesitant in
his language and stuff. We're like we we
typically want to see a stack of of many
different things. And in in body
language
I don't know why uh
I got obsessed with it for a while. I'm
really not. I'm kind of over it, but
in body language you deal in likelihood.
It's like a meteorologist.
It's not like yes, it's definitely going
to rain at 3:15 p.m. today.
We're looking at here's historical stuff
that's happened.
Here's something that's happening now.
Here's a likelihood that something will
happen.
Is there a reliable way that stress
changes your behavior?
Yes.
And what do you mean by that?
You begin to get stressed about
something Yeah. while we're
communicating. Yeah.
Some idiosyncratic there's a baseline
and then there's deviations from the
baseline.
>> Yeah. But presumably there are also some
relatively common patterns that happen
across everybody regardless of whether
they're a finger tapper or a foot tapper
or a neck scratcher. Yeah.
So, the the most common thing that you
want to look for is what stress does, it
we have a little cortisol that comes up,
but if if it's real stress, the person's
also going to have a little dump of
epinephrine, which is adrenaline.
And when the body says, "Whoa, you know,
there's a little too much adrenaline
here. I need to burn some of this [ __ ]
off." It's going to move like the you'll
see their foot you'll see their body
move because their foot's tapping a lot
or you'll see
like some part of their body they'll
think, "Oh yeah, I was just tapping my
foot cuz it's convenient." But the what
their body's doing is burning off excess
adrenaline because of the stress.
>> Yeah. So, right when you see like
someone start burning off stress, the
stress started like 10 15 seconds before
that.
That's interesting.
This thing has occurred.
Epinephrine's increased.
I need to burn this off. Movement.
>> Yeah. Frequent quick moving movement.
Yeah.
And a lot of people do it through
stiffness, too. So, you'll see someone
go from rigid and I can I can burn it
off like this. Like I'm I'm going to my
body gets more rigid, my posture and
everything. The stress makes
>> actively tensing as opposed to just
being still. Yeah. Right. From stillness
to stiffness, maybe.
>> That's interesting. Just go back to Can
you recap the
behaviors that
display insecurity again?
Yeah, so protecting arteries is number
one. And this is brachial, carotid,
femoral. And this arm wrap that uh
you'll see more likely
in women of wrapping like a single arm
like this.
Uh protecting the uterus.
And incomplete gestures. So, someone
makes a gesture, they don't complete it,
and then they kind of stop or they it's
interrupted.
>> Yeah. Interrupted gestures. What's going
on then?
It's self-doubt. Like, am I allowed to
do this? Is do I have permission to do
this? Is this going to make me look
weird? How am I being perceived? It's so
it's a lot of like people that are
insecure experiencing insecurity. It's
about self-perception. Like how am how
is Chris perceiving me?
Does he like me? Is there something
wrong? Am I being judged right now? So
and maybe I need
maybe it was too fast. Maybe I did this
thing weirdly. Maybe I need to slow
down. Can I grab this thing right now?
Not open. Can I open it on a podcast?
It's got a loud ass thing next to a
microphone. All of that kind of stuff.
I've been wondering
I've been wondering this whole time.
Um and that is the same presumably as
the micro pauses when it comes to words
communication.
Am I okay to say this thing? I'm unsure.
I've got more processing power. I guess
there's more going on than just that. Um
uncertainty about what I'm saying, how
I'm going to say it, where am I going
next, what did I just say, how is this
couched in broader context of what I've
been saying throughout this entire
conversation.
>> Yeah, it's a lot more self-management.
And if you're wanting to spot insecurity
changes, watch for someone in a
conversation that their lips have been
parted the whole time.
And all of a sudden they're like, oh
yeah.
And they close their lips and they stay
closed a little bit. So that's another
one. So if you're seeing a little bit a
tiny bit of stress behavior and then
their lips close when they're normally
just if we're really interested in
something our lips part just a little
bit.
Uh and then when we experience a little
bit of stress, we'll have lip closure
again.
I remember seeing a
image of someone doing the
holding gesture.
That thing.
And it was described it's a very British
thing to do. I don't know whether you're
aware of this. So there's something in
the UK called chavs. Chavs are a little
bit like Hicks or rednecks. Sort of um
antisocial behavior. That's not to
dismiss Hicks and rednecks. Many of them
There's some of them in this room. But
uh Yeah, I've been to Stoke-on-Trent.
The The Okay, that city
That city If that city was a person,
that person would be a chav. Yeah.
[laughter]
Yeah.
Um
that uh antisocial behavior thing is was
was a meme in the UK probably until the
early 2010s and that and then it kind of
stopped and it doesn't really exist
anymore.
And it was a meme of someone saying,
"The face that I make when I walk past a
grandmother walking her small dog in the
street to show her that I'm not a chav
or a threat."
And I've noticed
I bet there's a German word to describe
exactly that entire phrase.
>> Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. The Schadenfreude equivalent
of of whatever it is. There's one of my
favorite It's a Zugrubna, which is
the frustration that migratory birds
feel when they are prevented from
migrating.
Of course there's a word for that.
>> [laughter]
>> German's so good, dude. Must be a
nightmare to learn. Um
but yeah, is that's
Actually, that would be a good example.
What are some of the reliable body
language signals, behaviors that people
put across when they're not a threat?
Oh, you'll see more open palms.
Okay. Uh and typically at navel height.
Navel height. And this comes from a
friend of mine, Mark Bowden,
uh body language expert. Uh we have a
show called The Behavior Panel. Have you
heard of this on YouTube?
Uh it's four of us, four uh body
language dudes. Nerds, yeah.
>> what it is.
Um
and
all of us just nerd out on body
language, but we'll take every week
we'll take video
and break it down. Police body cam
video, celebrity video,
parents saying their kids missing and
we'll be like, "Uh
their kid might not be missing." And
like, well I love this [ __ ] dude.
>> And we'll break down
this is I'm going to be watching this
for the next few weeks. This is my sort
of stuff. Yeah, it was like we were just
doing it during COVID for fun and then
we like
had a million subscribers in short order
and then it was fun for all of us so we
just kept doing it.
What was your question there?
Non-threatening behavior because grandma
walking down the street doing the
Yeah. That thing. And this you know they
they did research on that in New York.
Uh and they called it like right after
9/11
these researchers noticed that you New
York New Yorkers would greet each other
like this like
Mhm. And they called it a shared grief
expression.
Cuz New Yorkers don't talk to each other
anyway so they're like
like that. Uh it was the first time that
thing really had a good name.
>> like two New Yorkers kissing. Yeah.
>> That's about as intimate as New York as
can get.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Mark Bowden has this thing called
the truth plane
where when we make these gestures that
are open palmed and we're speaking to
somebody and it's kind of at navel belly
button height.
>> Mhm. Something Trump does quite a lot, I
think.
>> Yeah.
And it it makes somebody more likely to
trust what we're saying.
Um and so like when when I'm saying like
exposing palms means that somebody's a
little bit more trustworthy. Mhm.
I don't mean like, "Hey, what's up?"
Like that like they've got their hands
>> Yeah, super cult leader. This he calls
this the ecstatic plane and this is the
truth plane down here.
And he's got some great names for a lot
of these. There's a there's a rare
number of occasions where your hands
should be above your shoulders. Very
rare. And he's probably Mark's I bet
Mark has a list. I don't know what it
is.
>> yeah.
But the other ones are just smoothness
of movement and is the person performing
or just being?
And that doesn't mean they're bad or
they're deceptive or anything one of the
first things I look at when I meet a
person is are they
are they in front of their eyes or kind
of just jammed back here wondering
what's going on, wondering how they're
being perceived. Like are they present
in what's going on?
So when I train people that's one of the
big things is like just pulling their
awareness out in front of their eyes so
they can they're
a lot more present. They're here. Yeah.
>> [snorts]
>> What about early warning signs that
somebody is a threat
or may have aggression?
It's so hard to predict, especially if
somebody's trying to hide it.
The
I train law enforcement in some of these
and it's still very hard to predict.
That we that we talked about four
different types. There's c o p e. It's
concealment, oxygenation, preparation,
and expenditure. Like they're trying to
burn off energy.
And in the concealment aspect, you
really want someone who is concealing
their intention. So right before some
kind of violent action takes place,
they'll break eye contact but keep you
in peripheral vision for a prolonged
period of time.
And the second piece of that is you'll
see a dominant foot withdrawal.
Even if they're not going to punch you,
you're going to see broken eye contact
and dominant shoulder either start
moving away or dominant foot going back.
Um and then it's kind of blading the
body but getting kind of prepared for an
attack.
And in America what we teach the police
is it like no one can draw a weapon from
concealment without making a 90-degree
angle with your body.
So like if you're not seeing 90-degree
angles, they're not going to they can't
get a weapon.
>> what you mean. So like if I have a Show
me where I've got a weapon, anywhere you
like.
Oh, right in the front.
>> So I'm hit 90 degrees just reaching for
the for the weapon, right? So if I'm if
I'm talking to somebody who's standing
there and I'm a police officer and I see
someone quickly move to a 90-degree
position, I need to be very focused on
what's going on. It doesn't mean they're
drawing a weapon, but you cannot draw a
weapon from concealment without this 90°
phenomenon. Mhm. Mhm.
One of my favorite insights about
blading is from Robin Dunbar, and he has
this book called Friends.
A cool thing that you can do the next
time that you're a party is look at the
angle of the feet of men talking to each
other and of women talking to each
other. Women talk perpendicular.
They talk 180°.
>> Yeah. Feet to feet, straight on. Men
talk at about 120°. They blade. It's
more shoulder to shoulder. And if you're
a guy,
just try the next time that you're
talking to someone, ideally someone that
you don't know super well, maybe someone
that you just met,
rotate yourself around
to 180° and go straight on, and
you'll begin to feel this strange spider
crawling tickling up, because typically
the only time that men would have
squared up to each other as if they were
about to fight. Especially if you're
close.
Like if your distance is like 2 or 3 ft,
and then you have like head-on stuff.
This is why they put bars or mirrors up
in bars in the in the old West. So men
could talk to each other and they were
side by side, but you could still see
them in the mirror.
>> That's interesting.
>> And it would it reduced the bar fights
and stuff.
Why because you wouldn't misconstrue
something that someone had just said?
Yeah, so they're not facing each other
at all. Mhm. But you and I could be
sitting here side to side by side and
look at each other's faces in the mirror
and have a full on conversation. There's
no no threatening. So we're both aligned
facing the same direction.
>> [clears throat]
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interesting the levels of intimacy that
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There are certain styles of therapy that
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And there's a men's sheds initiative
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Uh Australians
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they got a two times multiplier for
putting those two things together. So,
instead of they tried We're going to
have the Also, if you think about AA
also
largely shoulder to shoulder, although
you can go across, but the across is
further away than the shoulder. So, you
have intimacy plus directness. But with
the men's sheds thing, they
I don't realize, but if they got guys
together to do something with the front
of their brain because
John's broken his lawnmower,
but Chris has got the good wrench,
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hammer, or whatever.
And before long, we'd be talking about
the fact that
John's marriage is breaking down, or
that he doesn't have a good relationship
with his kid, or whatever it might be,
but it was
the synopsis was men relate shoulder to
shoulder, women relate face to face.
And
it's interesting. It's interesting. What
What that's a good one. What other sex
differences are there in communication?
What are the biggest ones? You mentioned
that women cover up like this. Certainly
the face-to-face versus
shoulder-to-shoulder thing seems pretty
massive. Yeah. What are some of the
other interesting ones?
Uh what
There's two big ones. You know, men will
most often like reach for the stomach
during times of uncertainty. So, just
kind of scratching or adjusting. You've
seen the guys on the beach that are like
like how you know, somebody looking at
me, they'll kind of lean back and like
scratching right here like this. Like
this is all like the
like a pacifier for us. Oh. A little
pacifying behavior.
And women during the same like period of
stress,
since stress builds up heat,
and most women have this long hair over
their neck, it builds up a heat back
here. So, you'll see women reach back
and lift the hair over their neck for
just a second to ventilate that area.
And they'll do it unconsciously.
>> Mhm.
Uh so, those are two big ones that we
see.
>> you think the men's stomach thing is?
What What's going on there? I've no
idea. Soothing behavior. I've no Oh,
it's Yeah, it's a self-soothing
behavior, but I I don't know the origin
of it or some what it's trying to
>> Evolutionary thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh
Have you seen footage of Wade Wilson in
on the stand? This is the Deadpool
killer. No. Okay, I'm going to This is
cool. You haven't seen this one, maybe.
Yeah. Jerry, can you just pull up um
Deadpool killer sentencing?
>> Is this from the movie Deadpool? No. So,
this guy's called Wade Wilson.
And there's a great You would love this.
You You guys should actually do If
you're still doing the reaction thing,
it would be cool for you guys to do a
reaction to the Netflix series that's
just come out. It's called Worst X Ever.
And a lot of it at least the two
episodes that I saw last week, Wade
Wilson's the first one, and the
character Deadpool, Ryan Reynolds'
character, his real name is Wade Wilson.
Yeah, here we go. Here we go. And it
would be only further broken if it took
Wade's last breath.
That broken system owes Christine and it
owes Diane and it owes their families
and it owes our family. So one thing
that you'll see, especially in men,
when you'll see this in women, too,
sometimes, but you'll see it in men is
we we talked about like arteries,
when we want to show defiance and and
and that I'm I'm not scared of you. Like
if we're about to get in a fight and
I'll be like, "What?"
You show your neck. Yeah, so we'll like
expose the arteries. Look, you'll see
the arms come out like this.
>> scared of you.
>> Yeah, so like I'm exposing arteries and
we see that in
>> Neck open. Yeah, leaning back. So this
is almost like a a display of absolute
lack of fear.
>> Dismissiveness.
>> All right, let's keep going.
Mr. Wilson.
I think we would rest.
All right. So the doctor just asked that
you colloquially the defendant to ensure
that he doesn't want to speak at this
hearing.
>> Well, Mr. Wilson, you have an
opportunity just like during any of the
other phases of Well, let me just finish
real quick. Any of the other phases
during the case,
uh if you want to address the court, uh
I would permit you to do that,
obviously. You know, everything's
recorded, uh but uh you would have that
opportunity if you wish. No one can
prevent you from addressing the court if
you wish to
and uh no one can make you address the
court if you don't want to. So it is a
decision that's solely left up to you if
you want to address the court or not.
>> Not today. Later, when I come back, I
will. Today? All right, pause that.
Okay.
So what you saw like right before he was
talking, you saw the lip licking. Mhm.
>> That's the hygienic gesture to improve
his appearance there.
>> Mhm. Mhm. Uh you didn't see him lean
forward or anything. He's trying to
maintain some kind of control in the
situation. He probably thrives on a lot
of autonomy and and just knowing that
he's kind of self-governing a little
bit.
You didn't see him blinking at all
during that process. One of the
interesting things about blinking is
and I don't talk about uh body language
anymore on podcasts. I usually talk
about DMT and and all that kind of
stuff, but
>> Yeah.
That's episode two. Episode two.
So,
blinking is one of the most reliable
body language indicators
ever studied. And it's cool because we
spend our time looking at people's eyes
throughout our conversation.
Um
let me show you this one like just a
badass trick. I think it's badass.
The average blinks per minute of human
beings in conversation is around 15,
give or take.
15 blinks a minute.
If we are in a uh situation that is
stressful,
without even noticing it, our blink rate
can go up to like 85, 90. And we don't
even notice that our blinking has
changed.
It's insane.
Like when I took like the math portion
of my SATs, I suck at math, so I was I
was probably at like a 90.
But what happens when our
our body gets focused in on something
that's important,
and we're watching a movie that's super
interesting, our blink rate, without
noticing, can go down to like a two.
So, stress increases how often we blink,
and it's not relaxation that that lowers
it, it's focus.
So, if you see these uh psychopaths that
are doing these interviews like Manson,
and they're just doing this to the
interviewer, and his eyes are open the
whole time, and he doesn't blink at all
the whole time,
>> Mhm.
that's focus, not relaxation. Those are
very different things.
Uh like when I watched the movie
Interstellar,
my one of my favorite movies, I probably
>> My favorite movie of all time. Mine,
too.
I I probably blinked three or four
times.
>> [laughter]
>> It's a long movie, too. It is. Like
three and a half hour movie. I own the
uh Tesseract from that movie that was
built by uh uh Kip Thorne.
What do you mean?
>> I'll have to send you a photo of it.
Like a the model that they used for the
Tesseract of the the movie.
>> Bookcase?
No, no. Like the entire Tesseract is
like you can use binoculars and look
down into this thing for like 30 miles.
I'll send you a picture of it. Unreal.
Well, I I so interesting, let me you
weren't expecting this, Love Island
reference.
Um
Interstellar came out just before I went
on this reality TV show and while I was
on there, I was desperately trying to
hold on
to anyone that wanted to talk about
nerdy [ __ ] with me. I managed to grab
one of the other cast members and go and
have a conversation with him and I
remember I was talking about the real
science of Interstellar cuz Kip Thorne
released that book.
He was the consultant physicist on it
and then
uh Brian Cox did his live show
and the background of Brian Cox's live
show was made by the same people that
modeled Gargantua.
That was the black hole. So, that's a
real fully appropriately modeled using
physics of the world and the universe
Yeah. black hole and I went to go and
see him after I got back with uh in
Leeds and it was the coolest thing. I
just remember that that really sticks
with me the fact I was trying to have
this conversation from memory about the
physics of Interstellar as a non-physics
person that's only seen Interstellar
once. And I remember whoever's listening
on this is someone listening to your mic
24 hours a day when you do these reality
TV shows and I remember thinking whoever
Do you have a poor bastard has been
cursed with listening to me try and
like
card memory my way through this physics
lesson is uh
destined for for challenges.
So, you're miked up all all day? 24
hours, yeah. And if you get up and go to
the bathroom in the middle of the night,
they want to
they want you to put your mic on. So,
you have a little
uh necklace kind of like this, but it's
made of
elastic and then a battery pack in your
pocket. There's a little wire that runs
up and over.
>> farted into them on purpose cuz you know
>> These guys did all sorts. Yeah, it's
fine. Yeah, I mean you'll just whisper
stuff cuz you know that you're you're
being listened to 24 hours a day and
there's one person on each audio
channel. So, these guys are on
>> Oh, you have one human dedicated to your
mic.
>> Exactly. Yeah, on 8-hour shifts. 1 2 3 1
2 3 1 2 3 rotating. And I came out to
the 3 weeks in and that was the end of
my my time there. Was this like a
Survivor? I'm sorry, I didn't know.
Imagine Survivor but for [ __ ] boys.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh that's basically what it is. It's
Navy SEAL Hell Week for people who you
don't want your daughter to get married
to. Okay.
>> And um
I came out and had these two guys come
up to me. They said, "Chris, you you you
don't know us. You don't know who we
are. Um but we've been listening to you
8 hours a day for the last 3 weeks. And
I just wanted to ask, what was the name
of that book about the physics thing to
do with the
to do to do with the movie that you were
listening to?" I was like, "Fuck, like
that was I wasn't on camera." I mean,
you're always on camera, but I would
there was just some wanky conversation
between me and Jordan, one of the other
guys. And I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] you
really were listening
throughout the whole thing." Cuz for the
rest of it I'm talking about, you know,
[ __ ] But uh the one time I had an
interesting conversation guys were like,
"What the [ __ ] is the name of the book?
Was it Kip Thorne? Is that the guy that
did the thing?" So, yeah, pretty cool.
The fact that we have this
insight into how other people behave
through their eyes, especially given
that that's where we're typically
looking,
is I suppose the problem is
in order to be a good detector of
body language, eye movement,
you need to not only
be doing your part of the communication
and thinking about what you're
projecting,
but you also need to be doing the
detecting thing at the same time. So,
it's twice as hard. Now, for the most
part, I think
you I don't know whether an untrained
person would pay that much attention,
conscious attention, to how
their interlocutor is behaving unless
they were to do with something out of
the ordinary. Like, if I do this, you're
like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing?"
Yeah. But, if my breath rate increases
or my blink rate changes or whatever,
beyond the subperceptible, instinctive,
just something is going on sense that I
might have,
training that in requires double the
RAM.
I'm not just projecting, I'm now
detecting, too. It does for a minute.
So, that's why I teach people to just do
one or two things at a time.
And if you're just an everyday guy and
you're not in hostage negotiations all
the time, you only need about three or
four things to look for.
And you only need to learn them one at a
time.
And when I'm like watching somebody's
blink rate, I'm not I'm not sitting
there like, "Oh, Chris's blink rate is
now a 33, noted."
Uh it's just every once in a while I'll
check in on that.
And if you're a good conversationalist,
your goal should be can I lower our
blink rate? If we start our conversation
and I'm interesting to you, my goal
should be like, "Oh, I'm I'm watching
your blink rate go down over time."
But, if you're talking to somebody,
let's say you're in sales, and you see
all of a sudden you mention the terms of
the agreement, you mention the the APR
uh interest or something, and you see
blink rate go up,
now now it's a beneficial item.
If you're watching somebody pitch you
and you're in some private capital firm,
whatever they call it,
um and you're seeing blink rate at the
moment of discussion of finances or
moment they're they're discussing
uh how many prospective customers
they're going to have or something like
that, those those are important data
points. But, if you're on a date,
change the subject.
Mhm.
They were engaged. Now, they're a little
bit more uncomfortable. Yeah, and then
something stressed them out. Maybe you
talked about one thing and then some
unrelated thing popped up in their head,
which happens to all of us.
>> Mhm. Just change the topic.
>> They got distracted. Yeah. Yeah, but
also that means that you're maybe not
being as engaging as you could do.
>> Exactly. Yeah. You're either I don't
like what you're talking about or I
don't care what you're talking about,
but either way it'd be good to bring
them back in.
What are the uh
biggest misconceptions
that we have about reading others, some
of the
falsehoods, lies about human behavior?
I think number one is
is that there's one behavior that means
one thing all the time. There's a few
exceptions, like blink rate.
Uh is it is a difference? But then
somebody's like, "Oh, what if I have
asthma?" Well, like then you then it
won't be a change or it'll be your
baseline. What does asthma have to do
with your blink rate?
>> Like allergies and stuff.
>> Okay.
Right.
>> So, like if if they're blinking fast the
whole time, then who cares? Then that's
your baseline.
Uh so, there's a few very very few
exceptions, but when you hear like this
means that somebody's being deceptive
that cuz they scratch their nose or
something like that, I think that's one
of the biggest misconceptions.
I think
another is is certainty.
People like you'll hear body language
experts all the time like absolutely
this person's lying. You can tell
because he did this and this at the same
time.
Like I
I feel irresponsible ever saying that
like
my eyeballs are more accurate than a uh
like a polygraph.
That seems silly to me. Uh so, I think
it's it's a likelihood game. And I think
we should be honest that it's a
likelihood game. No matter how good you
are
uh we I don't think any behavior expert
in the world can still uh spot a
psychopath.
Even though there's all this training on
out there on how to do that kind of
stuff. Why?
The The signals are hidden.
They have spent a lifetime honing
composure and
>> deception.
>> And And deceiving uh just being
deceptive with their face and their
expressions and their breathing and all
that kind of stuff. Most of the time
doing it unconsciously. And presumably
Yeah, exactly. Presumably that would be
so idiosyncratic for that one person as
well.
Where did that psychopathy come from?
What are their patterns? What are they
trying to hide? What have been their
experiences in the past? And what have
been their tells? And then what have
been their compensations for their tells
that now result in this behavior? Yeah.
And you know what? I want to bring up.
Jared, can you
search on YouTube
Danny Trejo t r e j o
uh Charles Manson. So, this is a clip
from The Pardon. This is interesting for
you given that you talked about drugs.
This interesting uh around hypnosis. So,
Danny Trejo, the Hollywood actor with
the massive chest tattoo, big sort of
cholo dude.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Machete, that
guy. Um he Isn't he like a really nice
guy in real life?
>> Sickest dude. Sickest dude. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I had a great conversation with
him a few years ago.
So, you met Charles Manson in prison,
didn't you? What was that story? Can you
tell us that?
>> County jail.
In the county jail. But let me tell you
Charlie wasn't the guy
>> that you saw on the TV specials. All
right? He was a a
Oh God, he was like 5'4" 5'5". Little
scrawny
He was
poor, kind of like a bum, really. He He
had a He had a a a string for a belt. He
tied his pants with a string cuz he
couldn't afford a belt. You know, and
and and everybody else we dressed
you know, cool iron our pants and and uh
and so the
some of the prisoners were going to take
advantage of him cuz they'd take
advantage of anybody that's small. And
uh we found out that he could hypnotize
you. So, we
we let him sleep in front of our cell
to to
you know, to make sure that nobody'd
hurt him and
and uh he got us loaded on weed.
And and three of the guys in the cell,
everybody else had like six guys in
their cell. We only had three cuz
we were special.
>> [laughter]
>> I had two killers with me. So, so
so uh and then uh
and then he got us loaded on weed and I
said, "Well, get us loaded on
[clears throat] heroin." So, the three
of us tried to get loaded. He got two of
us loaded on heroin. One guy just woke
up and afterwards I asked him, "How come
How come you couldn't do him?" And he
said, Never did it before.
>> "Did you ever get loaded on heroin?" He
said, "No. Well, your mind doesn't know
how to work."
Do you understand? Your mind doesn't
know how to react. So, if I tell you to
do something
while you're hypnotized and you haven't
done it before or you don't know how to
do it,
uh
you'll just wake up.
And that's what would kept happening.
So, yeah, he hypnotized Danny [ __ ]
Trejo
>> [laughter]
>> and his two cellmates. But one of the
dudes hadn't done
heroin before. And Danny goes on to say
that when you do heroin, apparently you
throw up. It's quite likely that you're
going to throw up at some point. And
Danny and the other guy that had done it
threw up. And the dude that hadn't
didn't.
Yeah, this is a thing. This is a real
thing.
Uh for some things, like
I absolute and I
I'm a hypnotist uh and that was just
part of learning all of this brain
stuff.
Went to many different hypnosis schools
and trainings and stuff.
I don't I don't think that you could do
it with like mushrooms
or LSD
or anything like that because it's a
such a brain connective and massively
immersive experience.
>> Mhm. It's too complex to replicate.
Yeah, like if
alcohol, you could get someone drunk
very easily
on hypnosis.
Heroin, maybe like you're kind of
creating some of that euphoria.
Um
but initially you want to create the the
negative conditions of
the thing first.
Uh so your body believes that it's
possible and your brain's easier at
connecting or at making bad [ __ ] happen
anyway.
>> Like vomiting. Yeah.
It's way easier for your brain to
default to negative. This is why your
ancestors would always
uh confuse a
a bear for a rock and not a rock for a
bear a bear.
Maybe the other way around, but
so you get the negative thing first and
then your brain's like, "Wow, this is
really easy." Then once you do that,
you're like, "This time you're not going
to have this negative thing, but you
have all the other positive benefits of
this." There's a guy in the 1980s. I
can't remember his name.
Maybe I think it was Marshall Silver.
But I think it was him. Uh but there was
this program called drug of choice
uh where you could order a audio tape
and you
you could order like the marijuana audio
tape. And if you've ever done it before,
like it would kind of recreate that
experience of that drug. I've never
tried it or anything, but it absolutely
is possible.
Going back to the deception detecting
stuff, what's the best way to get the
truth out of someone quickly?
What in what situation?
Normal conversation between you and
someone that you think is being
deceptive. It's cordial. You're not
going to do anything too nefarious.
How do you get the truth out of someone?
Socialize, minimize, rationalize, and
project.
We say, "Chris, look,
I know that I I think everybody's going
to understand if if something happened,
I think everybody's going to understand,
and I promise you it's not a big deal to
me." That's minimize. "And it makes
perfect sense. Everything lined up the
way it did, and [ __ ] happened the way it
did. It's not a big deal. And frankly,
it wasn't your fault. These people kind
of put this in front of you, or this
thing happened, or you downloaded that
app, and you didn't know what it was.
And I think everything's completely
fine. But the one thing that's always
been important to you and me is our
friendship."
"And I don't want to lose that."
And then
hopefully, you ask him ask him the
question again.
At the end of that.
I wonder what it is.
At each stage, I'm trying to think about
if if it was me, what I'm trying to hold
on to.
What it is that I'm grasping for. And I
think part of it is
it feels like
treading water and someone throwing you
a lifeline, so that you're not alone,
and the
discomfort and the loss.
The confusion of trying to hold this
thing together. Someone sees.
Someone sees why I did this thing. Yeah.
And it's not that big of a deal anyway.
If I am to admit it.
But that they're with me. I think a lot
of it is around
I'm not going to have to bear this
burden alone anymore. Yeah.
Trying to sort of feel what comes up as
you're
Yeah. role playing this big scenario.
Yeah, those are the big Those are the
four reasons that your brain will kind
of resist telling
the truth. Mhm.
People won't understand. This is a huge
deal. It doesn't make sense why I did
this, and it's all my fault.
So, I just want to alleviate those four
things.
>> Yes. Yes. As fast as possible. Yes. The
alleviation.
Why can't people relax? What's the truth
about emotional debt?
I've heard you talk about this. Dude,
this is a big one.
I think
this goes back to what we talked about
in the very beginning with people
carrying around shame and
everybody thinks that they're the only
one.
If we're really really honest with
ourselves, like we walk around every
day, we have this we conceal shame
because there are a lot of institutions
that are around today that have
made shame into an institution.
Like social enforcement and shame. Mhm.
And
everyone thinks it's just me. I'm the
only one hiding the [ __ ] from everybody
else. If I if I start becoming real,
everyone everyone's going to leave me.
I'm going to be abandoned by my friends.
I'm going to get outcast and judged. I
have to keep hiding this.
And everyone thinks it's just them.
The cool thing is that it's literally
100% of people. It's every single human
being
is out there carrying the exact same
[ __ ] as you. And they all think it's
just them.
That's the it's saddening, but I think
it's beautiful at the same time that we
all we we really do share a lot more in
common, especially with the things that
we hide from each other
than more than a lot of us would be
willing to admit.
So, when we encounter like emotional
debt,
this is typically when I'm a little kid,
what are the patterns I had to develop
to earn friends and keep friends, to
feel safe, or to attain some kind of
social rewards, like appreciation or
love or something like that.
So, if something in my childhood made
one of those three things happen,
friends, safety, and rewards.
Then that that the brain says, "Oh, this
worked. I'm going to make an app out of
this shit." So, your brain makes an app
and says, "I know exactly how to produce
this thing, so I'm going to make an app,
and I'm going to run that app all the
time." So, for the first couple years,
it's an app that you're consciously
clicking on in social situations.
By the time you're like probably 12 or
13, that's solidified in
your behavior.
And then fast forward, you've got a
34-year-old woman working in an office
who had to kiss some bully's ass in
middle school, and that's all she does
as an adult. Mhm.
So,
uh we carry all these little childhood
things without knowing it, like we just
this loaded childhood backpack. It's
gone from being an app to being source
code. Yeah, it beautifully said. Yes.
And we carry it into adulthood without
knowing.
And we don't You can look at just about
any adult in the world and say, you
know, if we went back in time, what did
you do to do friends, safety, and
rewards back in childhood?
And
then you say, "Oh, you came to me for
help with this XYZ thing.
Look at your 8-year-old self. Let's go
back in time and take a look at him."
Mhm.
Um and then you're like,
"Oh, wow. That's it. I mean, that's all
I was trying to do."
And
that is emotional debt. And every time
we're not
dealing with a lot of that stuff
directly, every time we hide it from
someone else, we're withdrawing from
account, and we're we're kind of
overdrafting everything in our life.
So,
concealment is is one of the most
exhausting
cognitively exhausting things that there
is when when it comes to human behavior.
Concealment is more mentally taxing than
doing calculus.
Like just trying to act like you've got
your [ __ ] together
uh in a social situation like faking it
hard is harder than calculus to our
brains. So
I mean, [ __ ] That's
it sucks uh that I mean, a lot of us are
paying this emotional debt.
And
I think that's it. It's like the costume
is heavy. The the costumes that we're
wearing are just getting heavier and
heavier because we keep adding stuff on
it. And a lot of us by the time we hit
18, 19 years old, uh we're like a
decorator crab.
You know, I've kind of You know what a
decorator crab is? Mhm. Can we bring up
a picture of a decorator crab?
So, these crabs will go around their
whole life and find [ __ ] on the beach
and like stick it and like glue it onto
the their shells somehow. It's
protection? Ornaments? Maybe
distraction. Maybe like a mating
ornament. I don't know why they do it.
>> [snorts]
>> Yeah, and they'll decorate their bodies
with all kinds of crazy stuff.
Okay, they do that by hand and it's not
part of their body at all.
>> So, that looks like it's picked up sea
urchin spikes maybe
>> And stuck it on somehow.
>> Yeah,
go back.
>> the search and go one to the right of
that image. Right there.
That guy found some Fruit Loops or
something down there on the on the
ocean.
So, they just stick little barnacles and
stuff all over their body. And we're
kind of like this. We we we go through
life and we're like, you know what? I'm
going to that guy did this one thing to
protect himself. I'm going to I'm going
to stick that on. So, we're walking
around with all of this stuff on us
that's not us at all. It's not me.
Uh and then we go back to that thing
that we originally talked about. It's
like
I have to go my whole life knowing that
no one's ever known me.
And that sucks.
And that's emotional
How do you advise people to process
emotions so that it doesn't get
deposited into the bank account or used
to withdraw from the bank account? I
think physicality is the best. There's a
guy, his name is Dr. David Berceli, and
he invented this thing called trauma
discovered this thing called trauma
release exercise.
Or
it's been known that we go into these
things called neurogenic tremors all the
time.
Uh where our body looks like kind of
like a little seizure where there's
little tremors going through your body.
But if you watch like a polar bear get
tranquilized by some researcher and they
and they it's like a paralytic a
tranquilizer. The polar bear is like
laid out on the ground and but he's
conscious.
Like you imagine that how terrifying
that's like worse than an alien
abduction. That's like an alien and
abduction for us.
So
this polar bear goes through trauma and
what is the first thing that happens to
the the anesthesia thing starts wearing
off and his body goes into these
convulsions and shaking movements and
big breaths and it's all completely
autonomic. He's not really consciously
controlling any of it. He's just letting
his body do what it does.
Squirrels do the same thing.
After an impala gets bit by a tiger
>> I've seen zebras do the same thing.
Yeah, zebras
um and Robert Sapolsky wrote a book
about a lot of this stuff but how nature
knows what to do. It doesn't suppress
healing mechanisms. It's called Why
Zebras Don't Get Ulcers.
And
but they figured out that humans
suppress this this tremor mechanism.
Why do you think that is? To avoid being
seen as strange by the people around us?
That this is a
indication of weakness? That I was
bothered. Yeah, I think you hit the nail
perfectly on the head there. Like
there's some weird if I jiggle around on
the floor in front of the tribe, they're
going to think I'm sick. What if they
throw me over the cliff like old Jimmy
last year when he was sick, you know?
>> Well, if nothing else, even if they
correctly identify it, they don't think
that you've got leprosy or you've gone
insane, what they do know is that your
capacity has been breached.
Yeah, your nervous system's ability to
withstand this was
taken over the edge.
You You have a clock just so you were
over clocked by somebody else, which is
an indication of weakness. Yeah. It's so
true.
But he basically he's not teaching you a
technique, he's just helping you to find
the switch in your body that you've been
suppressing like your entire life.
And
we had to do it after a deployment
that I was I did 20 years in the
military. So I
did a bunch of deployments.
But one of these deployments we came
back it was rough.
But we had to go through this trauma
releasing exercise it's a different
under a different brand name like
than this Dr. Bercelli.
But it was
maybe the most profound emotional
transformation I've ever made in my life
other than psychedelics.
It's unbelievable. And it's your body
knows how to do it. Every mammal on
earth does this automatically.
And it is life changing and it's free.
It's totally free. You go on YouTube and
learn how to do it and it's it's
unbelievable. And it's every mammal does
it and during this lady's presentation
to us when we got back from the
deployment
she says raise your hand if you've ever
seen a depressed squirrel.
>> [laughter]
>> Or a zebra. Like a zebra doesn't get bit
by a croc and go back to his tribe like
guys had a [ __ ] day. And I need to curl
up under that tree for like nine days
and people need to bring me food. That
doesn't happen.
Like they're somehow they're over stuff
a lot quicker than we get over stuff.
Even though we make more meaning about
the situation than that than the zebras
do. How do you come to think about the
role of shame in people's lives?
I think shame has been institutionalized
on purpose
by many different uh places and we learn
as we're little kids like if I feel
shame about something
I need to conceal it and I've learned a
new part of me
that I can wall off and I don't need to
show anybody.
So if I'm ashamed about anything it
doesn't make shame doesn't make you a
good person.
And I think a lot of people think that
if I feel ashamed about something that
makes me moral that makes me good as a
human being. It doesn't it just ruins
your life. It doesn't make you a good
person.
London interesting thing
from Rob Henderson
what
a book that he was reading taught
somebody's guilt
seems to be proportional to their
perceived likelihood of being caught.
Wait. Someone's guilt The amount of
guilt that you feel tends to be
proportional to how likely you perceive
it that you're going to be caught for
whatever you're guilty about.
>> Wow. That's really good.
>> Isn't that fascinating?
>> Yeah. That our level of guilt for
something that we know we can't be
caught for is so much less. Now
obviously there's a the scales have a a
bunch of different things going on here.
So on one side there might be the
severity of what you did. You know, you
could uh kill somebody and immediately
get them watch them be eaten by an
alligator whole or a python or something
and you go well there's no chance but
it's such a a huge transgression of what
your typical behavior would be that
that's something that you would take
very badly or you can have something
that's much smaller
but has a much higher likelihood of
getting caught.
You know, you threw chewing gum down but
you threw it down right at the teacher's
feet and you don't know if he saw or not
and that would be a big deal. And then
there's a sort of everything in between
that. Those are the two That's the
spectrum of crime by the way. There's
chewing gum and killing killing someone.
That's that's the that's those are the
two ends. The Overton window of crime.
And
I I just loved that idea that the level
of guilt that we feel
about anything that we've done
you it's not just the severity of
whatever it is. It's not just your
conscious consciousness coming in saying
like you that was not your best self
speaking or acting or whatever.
How likely is it that I think that I'm
going to be caught? And as that gets
closer and closer and closer
your level of guilt increases. Yeah. Uh
I you know I was thinking about
with the Epstein files, the day that the
Epstein files came out
Yeah. What?
Uh we saw a lot of people get real quiet
while they were waiting
to see what was released. Mhm.
Well, if you think about
what that day must have been like for
those people
horrible. You you
certainly not going to chalk it up if
you're a zebra you're going home and
telling your your your family I had a
[ __ ] day today. I got the equivalent of
bit on the ass by an alligator but I it
happened in the court of public opinion.
Uh however
in some ways the um concealment
tax that was being paid. You know your
name's in them.
You know your name's in them. You know
that there are being
investigations and releases are
happening
and yeah, I mean you could hope This is
something else I was having this
conversation last night.
You don't need karma to deliver
spiritual justice. Right? All that is is
someone repeating their patterns and
behaviors enough times until reality
finally gives them what they deserve.
So, imagine that you're a bad person.
You treat most people that you interact
with poorly.
You screw them over in one form or
another maybe the same way maybe in
different ways.
The only way that you make it to the end
of your life
without
that coming to the surface is by
basically beating the odds.
Yeah. You've stacked the deck against
yourself, and what you're hoping is that
you can somehow sort of, you know,
tiptoe Captain Sparrow to dance your way
through this minefield and avoid all of
the different tripwires and get to the
other side.
>> And
[ __ ] I did it.
>> Yeah. And then you die, or whatever. Um
that
sense that a lot of people have of "That
person [ __ ] That just deserts. Like
the how the how the Like how is nobody
cottoned on to this thing that I think
that I see about this person?" And maybe
you're right. Let's assume that you're
right about your character assessment
about this person that they're a bad
person and that they're stuff should
have gone into them.
What someone is doing is basically
stacking against the the deck against
themselves, but presuming that you've
got a relatively functioning
conscience,
that concealment burden is going to
start to stack up and stack up and stack
up, and especially if you know that
there's an investigation coming and that
people are getting closer and that maybe
the guilt da da da da da da da da da da
da da da da da da
So, yeah, some people Sure, they are
bad people who make it to the end of
their life without having been rumbled.
But the only way that they did that was
basically through luck. They fluked
their way through this lop
to make it to the end of Which is rare.
Most people end up getting what they
deserve.
>> My my mentor used to call that the their
that person's safe is full.
Mhm.
>> Like they've locked up a whole lot of
stuff, you know, it's just it's ready to
bust open.
>> Mhm. And they're easier to get to
confess, they're easier to do all kinds
of stuff cuz their safe is so full.
That's concealment burden is high. Yeah.
Level of emotional stress, ambient
emotional stress also high.
>> And the need to release that pressure.
Mhm. The release valve thing. Yeah. And
that's that's not even the economic
pressure around the world. That's the
emotional pressure inside. So, and we
get to choose the release valve form.
>> Mhm.
How's
what we've spoken about to do with shame
and childhood patterns related to the
trauma triangle? Is that all wrapped up
inside of that?
I think I think it might be. I don't
know. I don't think we know [ __ ] about
consciousness and all that. There's so
many people who have so much certainty
that I would be embarrassed showing that
level of certainty about oh, this is
exactly how the brain works. I studied
neuroscience for 9 years. We have zero
clue how the brain works. We don't know
where memories are stored. We don't even
know what they're made of.
And and like they're doing all these
experiments now that showing that
consciousness might be non-local.
I think you've had a few people on.
Panpsychists. Yeah. Yeah. Um
it it it just looks like it starts
that's starting to explain a whole lot
of stuff that we were calling anomalies
that it just might not be an anomaly.
And Rupert Sheldrake is is one of these
guys.
>> Friend of the show? Yeah.
Dude,
I love that guy so much.
>> Morphic resonance is such a [ __ ] cool
idea, man. Like it's What's interesting
to me stuff like the Danny Trejo thing
is a good example of that, but that's
story-based. Right? Stories stick with
you for a good while. If you hear about
a dude that was a famous cult leader and
a guy that's a famous movie actor
being in jail together wearing a rope
around his waist getting loaded on
heroin through hypnosis. I you I'll I'm
I'll forget my children's names before I
forget that, right? On my deathbed.
>> Yeah. Um
but the Sheldrake thing with the morphic
resonance that
dogs are able to detect when their
owners are coming home even when they
alter the vehicle and the time and the
mode of transport and the person and
they go to the window, the
Did you see the one about um is it s-
starlings dunking their heads into glass
milk bottles. Did you ever learn this
one? No. This is [ __ ] crazy. Let me
hear it. So, um, there was a type of
bird
that existed
I want to say in in the UK during World
War II.
Uh, before World War II.
And
the
glass milk bottles that would be put out
by the milkman
on everyone's front doorstep. Did that
ever happen in the US? Oh, yeah. I think
before my
>> have a milkman? Yeah. Okay, that exists.
Okay, I I have a Dude, I don't know
about this country. It's like 3 seconds
old. You know what I mean? I want to I
want a millennia old country like mine.
Anyway, I like this place. I spent too
much time in a Costco this morning. And
there was a glass bottle that you would
leave out and it would have a foil lid
and the foil coloring on the lid would
be
semi-skimmed, full fat, gold top,
whatever. And, um, birds had realized
that they could pierce the foil cuz it's
only thin and they could stick their
beaks in and they could drink the top
filtering of this thing. Uh, and you
would often, apparently, because if
you've ever put your finger into a
Corona to shove a lime down, weird sort
of
[ __ ] I'm stuck. Like, you really need
to wiggle it to get it out. And a lot of
the time people would arrive at the
front doorstep and just see an upended
bird.
It's not like a Molotov cocktail, but
it's got a sparrow sticking out the top
of [ __ ] light this.
Um, and then during World War II
all of that stopped
because of the Battle of Britain and the
blackout, there were no milk
deliveries. So, that meant that all of
the birds
had stopped to learn this thing.
For generations of birds
had stopped to learn this thing.
And then when it came back, it had taken
a a long time for this to be developed
and they'd done a a
analysis of this. Rupert's guys have
done a statistical analysis of this.
And uh
as soon as the
milkman began doing it again,
immediately a generation of birds that
had never seen a milkman and never seen
milk bottles started doing it straight
away. And you've seen this stuff where
they teach
mice to solve a maze in LA and mice that
are in New York are able to solve the
maze more quickly.
>> Yeah.
It [snorts] which is insane. There's a
10-year-old boy in Japan, 10 years old,
that was the first in the world, and
this is recently, maybe this year,
proved that a a butterfly retains the
memory of its ancestors.
And a butterfly memory also survives
caterpillar
metamorphosis. Because it's fully
liquidized. Right. A caterpillar going
to a a butterfly is completely
liquidized. Yeah. Yeah. And and and the
memory goes through not just
generations, but goes through the entire
chrysalis phase of butterfly, whatever
that's called, transformation.
>> How did the 10-year-old boy prove it?
Lavender.
So, when they're caterpillars,
he gives them a tiny little shock. Uh
but the boy was so kind that he shocked
them on his own arm,
so he could feel it, too, like with the
caterpillars, cuz he didn't want to give
them too much shocking.
But he exposes them to lavender and a
shock at the same time, over and over
and over.
I know, three times a day, maybe, per
caterpillar. Little electric shock?
Yeah, but it's like a a large, like a
TENS unit pad, but it's like that big. I
saw it, and he put it on his arm, and he
gently folded over it, cuz he didn't
want to hurt the caterpillar. Yeah.
You know, he considered them as friends.
It's not like this modern scientists who
are just, yeah, let's torture his ass.
Um so, this is Pavlovian stuff.
>> And then, when they become butterflies,
he builds this tube that's a Y shape, so
they fly down this thing, and they've
got this fork in the road
with sugar water at the end of both, and
one of them has a little cotton ball
that has lavender on it.
Uh and they he proved that
these butterflies that have that he had
trained, the caterpillar, went straight
off to the right away from the the
lavender because they had it associated
with negative memory, and their children
did the same
thing. Or their offspring did the exact
same thing.
And
have you read Irreducible Suble?
What? Federico Faggin? What's that? Uh
it's just it's kind of an argument
against materialist reductionism.
Okay. And And you're familiar with the
concept of It's basically like if
there's a
let's say like Chris, let's go
understand music. We're going to go
understand music. We have 500 years to
figure this out. So, we go to the
Philharmonic, and all the instruments
are out there.
We're like, you know what we're going to
do first? Let's chop this cello over
there into 6,000 pieces and study it for
10 years under a microscope. Hm.
And we understand music zero.
But we've broken everything down into
its tiny little parts, and then finally
somebody says, "We've had a massive
breakthrough. We found the sheet music
in the front of the orchestra."
And then the lead scientist is like,
"Good. Cut it up.
Put it under the microscope."
And then we we're like, "The sheet music
makes the music. So, of course we can
just put it under the microscope, and I
don't know why, but this music looks
like paper.
It doesn't look like music. So,
the argument is like if we keep just
breaking things down into elements,
we're missing the
the the substance of of what's really
there.
You familiar with Daniel
Schmachtenberger? Do you know who that
is?
>> No. It's a surname that you don't
forget. He's been on the show twice now,
and he's got great talk on emergence.
I'm going to send it to you. It's a
little bit It's very dense, actually.
Um
I fell in love with this guy's thinking.
He's been a good friend ever since. Um,
but
he's got this idea, basically, which is
kind of basic, right? That there can be
combinations of things that allow
properties to emerge that individually
do not. Right? You know this if you put
um
sodium in water or whatever, and you get
a particular like an interesting
reaction.
But the same thing is true
with regards to what you're saying here,
that analyzing things in isolation don't
explain what happens when they come
together.
And the inverse of this, which I first
heard from him, but then Naval reused,
was human beings locally reverse
entropy.
Locally reverse entropy. The entire
universe
aiming toward entropy,
and we locally reverse it for a brief
time. Yeah. Ultimately, the universe is
going to win, right? The battle is ours,
but the war is always going to be
theirs. Yeah. It's
I just love that I love that idea. I
love the idea that we locally reverse
entropy. It's really cool.
>> And it's beautiful. And it's I mean,
it's like somebody studying DMT
and saying, "Oh, yeah, it activates a
receptor on your 5-HT2A
serotonin receptor." Like, "Yeah, yeah,
that's what's made our ancestors see the
exact same thing for 4,500 years." And
that's what creates the entities, you
know.
It's silly to think that we can really
comprehend everything. We can't even
define or understand consciousness.
And we're like, "Oh, yeah, it's a it's a
receptor activator. It's a receptor
agonist."
And I just think that there's way too
much certainty
about this stuff. We need more
scientists just finishing a few
sentences with as far as we know.
Mhm. If we just had that, a little bit
more of of as far as we know,
uh I think science would advance a lot
faster because it's it's it's dogmatic
at this point. I want to talk about the
DMT stuff. I feel like there's
a million things to get into that we
haven't, but
let's let's let's bring this one into
land here cuz this has been really
really fascinating. What's this new show
where you told your team if we don't get
death threats within the first 6 months,
we're not doing our job?
So, I uh
the origin of this is
I took an Adderall one morning.
Great start to a day. And uh
Go on. I got distracted doing some work
and I was like, "Shit, I didn't take an
Adderall." And I took another one.
Which I I've never done. Is it my brain
was not prepared for this.
And I also uh do a a little daily
microdose action.
And
all that mixed together and I was just
sitting there at my desk typing or going
through emails or something. I was like,
"You know what?"
Randomly, I was like, "I need to start a
TV station."
Uh, and I did. That does sound like the
sort of thing someone who's taken two
tabs of Adderall and some mushrooms
would come up with.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. And I was like, "You know what? I
could beat Fox. I could beat I could
beat mainstream news."
So, we
built and own a television studio now
and we have a daily news show that's
about to start coming out. Maybe by the
time this is released, we'll have a
video out.
Um, it's called Station 1 on YouTube. We
have
one or two videos out, but we're going
to start daily news.
And we're also going to every every day
you'll get the news, but you'll also get
how everything that you're you're being
shown as different stories are actually
connected. All of the sciops layers with
actual registers and receipts for every
single thing of how the news is being
uh used to frame a narrative. Uh, all of
that will be made public. And then every
single day on the news, we'll tell you
in the next 70 72 hours, here's what to
look out for. If you see these three
words in a bill that Congress passes at
like 2:00 a.m., you need to watch out
for this thing. If this oil company
invests in this one thing in the next
four days, you need to watch out for
this. This is probably going to happen.
So every single day it should feel
and we follow the format of the
president's daily beat brief from the
director of the CIA.
And that's the daily news. It's like the
president's daily brief, exact format.
Uh and I think it's going to be good. I
think people are going to like it and
there's no narrative. There's no left
and right uh politics, which doesn't
really exist.
Uh
And I think it's I think it's going to
be pretty cool. Thank you. Chase Hughes,
ladies and gentlemen. Chase, you're a
awesome man. I'm looking forward to
speaking to you next time. Me, too.
Thanks, Chris. All right. See you next
time, everyone.
Dude,
[ __ ] crushed it. So good.
Appreciate it, bro.
Thank you very much for tuning in. If
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