You'd had to sign some NDAs about a lot
of this information.
>> Yes. Some of the things I can loosely
talk about like seeing a UFO on the
ranch is common place.
[music]
>> You had alluded to government
involvement uh limited government
involvement or at least interest still
in the ranch. Have you have you
witnessed any of that?
>> They told me when I started they said,
"Hey, just be aware um it's possible
[music] that you know you might have the
government listening to your phone calls
or check or checking your emails." So,
just be careful what you say. [music] We
get our phones hacked while we're on the
ranch. You'll just be sitting there and
all a sudden something opens up your
phone. It's like going through
everything. Oh, yeah. That happens to
everybody on the ranch.
>> But I do also think that some of the big
stuff is held back on a on a more
governmental level.
>> Do you think there's like national
security implications?
>> Yeah, absolutely. Really? Absolutely.
>> So, you're saying that the phenomenon is
obviously aware on subconscious level.
It [music] behaves that way
>> of what your intention is
>> and it knows ahead of time.
On daylight cameras, a UFO shows up.
There's a cow in the shade underneath
and buckles [music] and dies. UFO goes
away. They brought me in, I don't know,
a few weeks, a month later. And that
thing had contorted in what we call the
dinosaur death [music] post. Normally a
mammal when they die, they go into the
fetal position. We found [music] a skunk
and it looked like a taxonermy skunk. We
documented it there for 3 years. [music]
>> It was untouched. It didn't rot. It
didn't disintegrate
>> for 3 years.
>> 3 years. Is that Is that That's
impossible. That's impossible. [music]
>> From from your own personal knowledge
and your own personal speculation.
What's in the mesa?
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Welcome, Ben Woodruff. So, Ben, you've
been part of the sort of skinwalker uh
legacy as far as the television show
goes, but also behind the scenes doing a
lot of the biological testing. Yes.
>> Um namely experiments with birds as well
and just looking at the land. I mean,
we're going to talk about so many
different facets of this fascinating
geographical area that's been enigmatic
to say the least, and that I I think so
many people are really invested in.
Partially, I think mainly due to the
television series, but also uh the
books, the lore, the stories, the the
hitchhiker effect, the cattle
mutilations, the the tie to to Bob
Bigalow, the you know, there's so much
history here. This is a a mecca or at
least another sort of Bermuda Triangle
in the UFO sphere. Uh so I want to thank
you for coming all the way down from
Utah today and welcome.
>> Absolutely. Thanks for having me. It's a
pleasure to be out.
>> Great. I can't wait to get into some of
this stuff. I I I've been biting my
tongue. We went out for breakfast this
morning and I was I was, you know, kind
of like pulling my punches. I didn't
want to, you know, I didn't want to get
through all the things that I wanted to
ask you. But for viewers at home that
might be sort of introduced to this
topic uh perhaps a little more recently
can you give us a general sort of
gestalt on what is skinwalker ranch?
>> So I guess oh you would say it's an area
of high strangeness but that's pretty
nebulous term. So it has a history going
back thousands of years. the native
people in the land there, the Native
American tribes going way back, uh, have
a rich history of very anomalous things
from portals opening up to, you know,
skinw walkers themselves. The term
skinwalker is um, actually a Navajo
term, Da, the Navajo tribe, the Da
tribe. And it is kind of come to evolve
to be a broader thing. Anything weird,
anything strange, anything anomalous,
oh, it's a skinwalker. But that's not
the origins of it. But the ranch itself
has had since ancient times, it's had
strange things. It's had prehistoric
animals appearing, which doesn't I'm
just reporting what's been said. It's
had, you know, UFOs um and well
documented at least since the 1990s, but
um people even much earlier going back
all kinds of strange things. You know,
like I said, portals opening up,
>> poltergeist activity,
>> poltergeist, ghost, cattle mutilations,
um, and beings, people seeing beings and
hearing voices, speaking many different
languages. Uh, so a wide range of
things. And then the government got
involved in the '90s and has really been
involved ever since. Um, they're not
officially now, but they still are.
Well, so in involved they were involved
initially with NIDS or you know the
scientists that were there looking at it
namely you know you had Bob Bigalow, you
had Hal Put Off, you had a lot of these
sort of heavy hitters in this area
looking at this place um buying the farm
first of all or the property off of the
the the family who had it there
previously who had all these anomalous
things happen to them and then out of
interest, you know, Bob I Bigalow I
think was funded uh for this or Yeah,
partially funded. Yeah,
>> partially funded.
>> Yeah, partially funded. There was some
Senator Harry Reid got some funding for
it and so it was researched, you know,
by the government. Government
contracted. Um, and then eventually they
took over completely. Uh, the Shermans
were still living on the ranch at first
and eventually the government completely
took over through the '9s and early
2000s. And there's a lot of things that
you know people who were on those early
teams they allude to but I think there's
a lot that we the current team have not
been told. So um and but all the
information back then it was all analog.
It was like our ability to capture data
has exponentially grown since and so the
what we're doing now I think far exceeds
what was done back then. I I don't know
because we don't have all of that data.
But from the sound of it, you know, I
mean, if you're just having VHS that
you're recording things with compared to
now, you know, where we have, you know,
everything from mass spectrometers to,
you know, LAR that we can shoot through
things and drones. I mean, uh, you know,
digital footage. It's incredible what
we're capturing now. Do you think that
there is some some merit to capturing it
in an analog way, though? because it
seems like the phenomenon itself messes
with things that are digital. I think it
does, but I I I hate saying this, but I
I I have to say it. The the ranch
operates as if it is self-aware, as if
it has a consciousness. Maybe it does.
Even if it doesn't, it operates that
way. Kind of like genetics. Genes
operate as though we say, "Oh, this is
the genetic motivation." Well, genes, as
far as we know, don't have a motivation,
but they operate in the way that they
do. So we phrase it, the ranch, whether
it's actually self-aware or not, it
operates as though it appears to be.
>> And what I see is that during the
Bigalow era, it was kind of given a
little friction and then it kind of died
down and then during this new era, it
gave friction at first and we gave
friction back and some rough things
happened in the beginning and then it
was kind of like, okay, all right, fine.
I'm going to teach you. It's like the
phenomenon is like, I'm going to teach
you. I'm going to mess with your digital
devices, but learn from that and then do
a better experiment. It's almost like
it's a trickster spirit, like a
trickster energy, but it's trying to
teach you and move the ball forward.
It's almost like you're you idiots are
you keep coming back?
>> All right. Okay. I'm going to teach you
some things. So, to, you know, to to any
skeptical person out there, this sounds
like a lot of woo woo stuff.
initially when you hear this stuff
coming from someone like yourself,
>> you know, you know, you have clear a
clear history in studying biology and
paleontology and all this stuff to hear
someone like you of your caliber say,
"Oh, but there's like a trickster energy
that that does sound a little woo to
people out there." What's an example
that you can give that's like a concrete
like, oh, here's just one of many
that'll help you understand what I'm
trying to say. Um, as far as
some the ranch seems to give you what
you want. If you come in there with a
lot of bravado, people get attacked. Uh,
people collapse, people fall over. Uh,
you know, people get their heart
attacked, people get their mind
attacked. But if you come in and just
kind of have an attitude of like, I'd
like to learn, then it seems the
phenomenon will show you what your field
of science wants. Now, I I understand
you could say the opposite. You could
say, well, that's your field of science,
so of course you're going to notice
those kind of things. I I'm aware of
that, but even factoring that in, it
seems to show you that. Um,
>> so it's like amplifying what's already
in your mind kind of thing.
>> Like it it's aware and it will show you.
It will bring you like for me, dead
stuff. anytime I'm going to come on the
ranch, I dead animals are going to give
you so much information. And you know,
we we even had one time where the
producer of the show and I walked out
when I just showed up and there was two
dead quail sitting right in front of us
and we're both laughing. We're like,
"Uh, okay, Ben showed up. Here's dead
quail." Both of them, the beaks open up
like this, right? Both of them had the
front the upper mandible bashed in, but
the lower mandible was still in place,
which if they ran into something, those
would both be broken. They were dead.
They sat on the ground all week, summer
heat. They were 2 feet away. I've got
footage of this. 2 feet away from a fire
antill. The fire ants wouldn't touch it
and they stayed floppy for for that
whole week. So, we ended up freezing
them. And so, it's like, well, Ben's
here. Here's dead animals. That's what
you always want. Here's some fresh dead
animals for you.
>> You know, there's something deeply
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let's talk about dead animals since
we're going here because this is uh
pretty fascinating. Obviously, there are
plenty thousands
thousands upon thousands I I would
probably even estimate tens of thousands
of cases of like cattle mutilation
across North America. It's it's a
problem for a lot of farmers in Canada
as well. And um especially, you know, in
these sort of local or these sort of
isolated areas, there there seems to be
a lot of this happening. Not strictly
cattle.
>> Uh it sometimes can, you know, go into
horses or like other, you know, mammals.
>> Um but Skinwalker Ranch is known
primarily for the cattle mutilations.
>> Yeah. When we're talking about cattle
mutilations to to anyone that's out
there, there's obviously some anomalous
things that happen or that happened to
the animal that cause, you know, sort of
concern, which is the unexplained boring
of, you know, [snorts] its genitals or
the lack of blood or the lack of
struggle even. But then like you said,
just the sort of lack of rigor mortise
or or or the the way that they decompose
and the way that animals are sort of
uninterested
>> in a carcass, which is obviously very
interesting to to animals normally.
>> Yeah.
>> Um what out of all of those symptoms,
what have you observed there? Have you
seen all of these things firsthand?
>> Yes. Uh my my first time, so I'll talk
about the small stuff and then the
cattle me part. Yeah. So my first day
coming on the ranch, we pull up and at
the gate I look over and there's a dead
rabbit sitting there and I thought,
"Okay." And in those days I was nervous
to take photos and document cuz it was I
was very cautious about things and now I
film everything. So I snapped a few
pictures and every day coming back um it
was still there and we checked it.
Floppy, no ants, no gastrointestinal
swelling, you know, no bloating, uh no
no scavengers bothered it, no ants, no
flies, nothing. It didn't smell. And um
I was there I don't know like 3, four or
five days that week, that first week.
And then the last day I went, it was
gone. And it was all sand near it. No
tracks, nothing, nothing had scavenged.
It was just gone. Uh that same first
week, we found a skunk. And it looked
like a taxer skunk. It looked like it
was happy. It was just like this dead
skunk. We documented it there for 3
years. It was untouched. It didn't rot.
It didn't disintegrate. It smelled a
little bit like a skunk, but no rot
stink. And then finally
>> for 3 years.
>> 3 years. And so finally Eric Bard and I
>> Is that Is that
>> That's impossible. That's impossible.
You have decomposers. When you die, you
have internal bacteria that starts to
You're like, "Oh, I'm not getting a food
source anymore." So it starts to eat
your stomach lining off gasing and
that's where you get the bloating. But
you also have external decomposers that
start to break you down. None of that
happened. And so Eric Bart and I said,
"Well, it's been 3 years. Let's film a
little blurb on it." So him and I, just
on his phone, we filmed a thing of it
and turned it over and examined it. The
next day, we came out. It was gone. And
in its place was a perfectly decomposed
like arm of like probably like a prairie
dog, like a a large large rodent, not a
skunk. And a chunk of that skunk fur was
wedged up on the side of the old ruins
of the homestead, too. there almost like
it's like oh you think I can't decompose
blam here's a decomposed hand and here's
a little you know and nobody else you
can't get on the ranch you can't just
drive on we were the only ones there was
just Eric and I so did Eric in the
middle of the night go and get rid of
the skunk and put a prairie dog leg
there and put wedge this thing up there
um so what we found is that small
animals don't decompose rigamortis
doesn't set in they never bloat um if
they're in the water they will but if
they're on And they don't they just stay
floppy. And
>> this is all animals without exception.
All small animals without exception.
>> Birds. I've birds and mammals and one
frog. Um we've had weird things with a
fish, too, which that that's that's
that's a separate issue, too. But um but
yeah, so so small animals, if you're
like coyote sized or smaller, if you die
on the ranch, you don't decompose. We've
had some things uh like we had a bird
called an oral and they brought me this
oral and it was the legs you got skin
and scales on the legs right and when we
did a necropsy open it up there was just
gaps and I'll I'll send you a picture a
drawing I did and it was just like bone
empty bone empty bone empty down the
whole leg it was just just chunks
missing that bird would not be alive if
that was the case and there were just
these gaps of marrow of
>> Yeah. Just like No, no tendon, muscle or
bone. And then tendon, muscle, and bone.
No tendon, muscle.
>> Everything was But the leg Yeah. The
skin and the scales on the outside were
there. And so we open it up and it's
like that's impossible. And no
decomposer would do that.
>> No dermested beetles wouldn't do that,
you know, because tendon and bone, you
know, it doesn't make sense. So I that
one was that one messed me up. So,
another one we found on the ranch, a
starling. And I think this was on the TV
show. And this starling was squishy and
stayed that way for like months. It's a
bird. It's a It's a little bird. It's um
it's in the Mina family. They're from
Europe. People brought them over. Okay.
>> Um and you know, they're about the size
like a you know, robin, bigger than a
sparrow, but it was squishy to the
touch. Stayed that way forever. So, I
took it off the ranch. Once it was off
the ranch, it started to decompose. And
the skull looked like it had blown up
from the inside. And Eric pointed that
out. He's like, "There looks like some
sort sort of energetic thing that popped
out." Well, in the skull, I was It
started to smell at home. Never did on
the ranch. So, is it because it's on the
ranch that doesn't decompose? Well, all
these weird bubbles started to form. It
looked like a metallic bubble and they
would it was almost like a Yeah, like a
bubble would start to and I got tweezers
and I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to grab
this." Pop. It pops. No residue. And I'm
like, "Oh, that's strange. Another one
forms." And and they kept forming and
finally I'm like, "Every time this is
popping, nobody's going to believe me."
So, I snapped a few photos and I'll I'll
show you some photos of that, too. But I
was like, I don't know what that stuff
was, but it didn't happen until this
dead bird was taken off the ranch. But
before that, even when it was fresh off
the ranch, squishy and floppy. It's
insane.
>> That's I mean, that's definitely insane.
Um, I want to I want to just interject
with uh something that maybe I should
have said at the beginning, but there
you know, when you reached out to me,
you were kind of uh pretty happy that
you were able to talk about some of
these things because previously um there
had been you'd had to sign some NDAs
about a lot of this information.
>> Yes. due to the nature of uh because
they might be using it in future seasons
or you know it's it's proprietary you
know information that you were hired and
you were um but is there so now that
you're released of this
>> partially released of some of that
information
um there is still information that you
can't talk about
>> absolutely
>> is that information that you can't talk
about related to just like breakthrough
findings and science and and or is it
related to more like proprietary info or
is it related to security?
>> It's more of security and things that
we've witnessed. Um the things that I've
gotten permission to talk about, there's
a lot that I can't talk about in my
fields
>> that you can't
>> cannot. Okay.
>> And there's a lot that I that I cannot
that are in other people's fields who
have been on the ranch that we've
witnessed. Um and even just some of the
things like some of the things I can
loosely talk about like seeing a UFO on
the ranch is common place. I mean, I've
got footage that one day, and I did ask
Brandon if I could talk about this one,
but we were filming at the end of the
day, and we had been in the river.
Everybody was exhausted. I mean, it was
it was like a million degrees all day,
humid, and we were just all dead. It's
the middle of the night, and we all have
to drive like a half an hour to get back
into town. And um I I look over, I'm
like, "You guys, there's there's a UFO."
And I'm talking to the film crew. Do you
guys want to film this?
>> What do you What do you mean by UFO? It
it came over a big bright orb, not
distant, like big enough, way bigger
than a star or the space station or
something bigger than that. Um, and it
came over and um to the west from from
the west and it came over and it was
kind of like
hovering, you know, being in place,
moving. And I'm like, "You guys, you
want to film that?" And they're like,
"No, we're just" I'm like, "I I you
know, I mean, UFO." And they're like,
"Ah, it's okay." So I I grabbed a couple
shots and grabbed a little footage of
it. It's like it's that common place on
the ranch to have something come over.
And so usually they only document it.
And I mean it's always documented like
there's cameras 24/7. U but as far as
the boots on the ground if if it's not
part of an experiment it might not get
the attention it deserves.
>> So you saying that there's like this
whole catalog of anomalous UAP footage
that they're not releasing?
>> It just hasn't been gone through. hasn't
been gone through. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And
so now they have like the Skinwalker
Ranch insiders where people can help,
you know, can sign up and can help go
through some of the footage real time.
Um, which has been kind of nice because
people will find stuff and then they'll
bring it up to some of us on the team
and say, "What do you think about this?"
So, because there's just so much going
on.
>> You you had alluded to government
involvement uh limited government
involvement or at least interest still
in the ranch. Have you have you
witnessed any of that? Uh they told me
when I first started they said hey
officially the government isn't
officially involved but they are still
interested both behind the scenes and in
front of the scenes and you know Travis
Taylor is was on the UAP task force and
it's like and he even reported some of
the anomalies back to the government
broken NDA because of this might be a
national security issue. So, but they
told me when I started, they said, "Hey,
just be aware. Um, it's possible that,
you know, you might have the government
listening to your phone calls or check
or checking your emails. So, just be
careful what you say. Um, you know,
follow your NDAs that you've signed."
Um, so they were casual about it. That
wasn't like a threat or a warning, but
they said, you know, and we've seen on
the ranch, I mean, the government will
fly over. The government has done grids.
We've seen with airplanes over the ranch
and
>> helicopters. Helicopters coming in.
Yeah. and and Blackhawk helicopters
coming in and then even when you have
congressmen in Utah trying to follow up
on it can't get direct answers. It's
like you should be able to get direct
answer about that. Do you think Brandon
is involved at that level? Like I mean
obviously he you know he owns the place
he's got a lot of money. Um do you think
someone like him would be regularly
debriefing some faction of the
government? He he tells them he is he
Brandon is the coolest guy on earth. He
is so he is such an awesome guy and he's
sincere. He's he's intelligent and he
works his butt off more than anybody I
know. He's actually passionate about
real estate like legitimately so.
>> He's a mogul in that field
>> and he and he loves it. It's not about
money. He loves doing that. And so this
is his side thing that it's like I want
answers and he really wants answers. And
so he has really done a lot of
networking getting certain government
officials together and like look hey we
need to be paying attention to this. we
need to be addressing this. So, he's
briefed people. I know he has, and he's
been instrumental in trying to move this
conversation forward, which I have the
maddest respect for. I mean, that was at
the potential risk of his career, you
know,
>> or or or more.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know,
>> do you think though that like the
involvement of the government is a
net positive or a net negative? because
it depends. You know, there are two
sides to this. Some parts of the
government seem like they can't wait to
talk about it,
>> but then you hear about the CD under
side that kind of covers everything up.
>> Yeah.
>> Um do do you see a concern there?
>> I had there might be I mean, we get our
phones hacked while we're on the ranch.
You'll just be sitting there and all a
sudden something opens up your phone.
It's like going through everything. Oh
yeah, that happens to everybody on the
ranch. And some people it ruins their
phones. I've had my iPhone hacked twice.
I've never had it. But is that the
phenomenon or is that our government? Is
that another government? I don't know.
We've had audio things happen where
we're just sitting there and all of a
sudden you hear like a double echo
coming back over all around the room and
it's like it's like, okay, well clearly
somebody's tapping in and recording.
Maybe it's like the NSA kind of thing. I
don't know. Um and maybe it's the
phenomenon doing it. I don't know that.
[sighs and gasps] But I I I think the
the government I don't know for sure.
This is speculation. I I get the
impression that, you know, the
government did a lot of work in the '90s
and now that Brandon's here and trying
to do work and is answering to the
government and getting the government
involved, I think the government's like,
well, hey, let's just from the
sidelines, let them do the work.
>> Sure. Yeah. Just costing us nothing.
>> Yeah. Good point. Okay. Let's get back
to some of the stuff you are allowed to
talk about. Okay. um and some of these
more bizarre cases involving mammals.
So, we've gone through the fowl, we've
gone through the rabbit.
What's what's next on this channel?
>> So, cattle um the cattle are so cattle
mutilations.
>> Well, before we get to cattle, like
we're working our way up. All right.
>> There was a wolf.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um so [clears throat]
that Well, there involves a cow, too.
Um, so, um, so [snorts]
on daylight cameras, a UFO on on what we
call the path of the skinwalker. This
north a south running line where all
these anomalous things always happen
along this fence line. UFO shows up.
There's a cow in the shade underneath
and buckles and dies. UFO goes away.
This is season one of the TV show. It's
like, why aren't we talking about this
all the time? They brought me in, I
don't know, a few weeks, a month later,
and that thing had contorted in what we
call the dinosaur death post. Normally a
mammal when they die, they go into the
fetal position. You know, they the
tendons dry out this way. This thing
went spiraled all crazy. Um, so they
brought me out and I found that
something had bit with its tooth through
one of the ribs and I took that rib and
measured it and it matched up to either
a dire wolf or a jaguar. I checked a
whole bunch of teeth. Now, it doesn't
mean that's what it is, but I just said,
"Okay, it doesn't match a regular wolf.
Doesn't match coyote. Doesn't match
>> bigger than a regular wolf.
>> Bigger than regular wolf." And I took a
rib and went and tested through and and
took the next rib over and tested like
bite force and even with a black bear
tooth and even that it shattered. So
whatever it was had a lot of power
because normally carnivores if they're
going to bite a rib they use their
mullers and they bite off a side to get
the marrow and they'll chomp chomp
chomp. They don't use front canines.
They that's going to break them. So it
bits clean through poked it right
through made a concordial fracture. And
so from that we had this thought, oh it
could, you know, probably not a
direwolf, but okay. But then people even
from the Sherman era in the '90s claimed
that they had seen these big giant
wolves and that they had attacked things
and, you know, had attacked the dogs on
the ranch and stuff.
>> It was the original sort of depiction of
a skinw walker itself was like this half
man, halfwolf type.
>> Yeah. Like shape shifter kind of thing.
Yeah. This big giant wolves. And on the
ranch, same thing. They were telling me
like in the '9s there was more of there
was a couple stories of kind of like
dinosaur like things like velociaptor
type things that people said but there
was a lot more of mammals and they said
oh yeah there's like a there's a dino
beaver they said they saw and they were
laughing about it. I'm like well what do
you mean like a beaver like you know
like 300 lb and I said well we had those
here during the ice age 10,000 years ago
and I had brought out a skull and showed
them. I'm like here it is. It's
casteries. This is giant. They're like,
"Wait, that was actually real?" It's
like, "Yes." So the question, so a lot
of these things that people were seeing
seem to be ice age animals, which is the
time right before us. We're still coming
out of the ice age. So it's like, okay,
well, did you see, you know, uh, is
there a portal opening up that's letting
these things through? So with the wolf,
um, they were going along the river
doing totally different experiment, and
they found that it's it's painful to
watch. They found this this thing and it
it it had rotted properly even though it
a wolf thing a canine for a canine had
massive fangs oversized fangs and they
said uh we ought to get this for Ben but
it stinks so bad let's just hack off the
jaw and bring it to Ben. So they showed
it to me and I'm like oh my gosh I'm
like go get the rest of it. Um and they
went to get the rest of it. Most of it,
the skull would wash down river. They
got me the rest of the skeleton that
they could get. But the jaw, I'm like,
the number of teeth it has and the size
and shape and the robustness matches a
dire wolf. That doesn't mean that's what
it is. But that's
>> Yeah, we have a big wolf on our hands.
>> Big wolf on our hands that shouldn't be
here. And
>> did that match up to the bite marks?
>> Uh, it did. It did. It was the same
size, same shape. And so we're like,
well, we can do a DNA test. So, we sent
a a um DNA sample which to send the
tooth to Colossal Bioscience, which is
the leading, you know, uh genetics lab
in the world right now. They're the ones
bringing back
>> the direwolf.
>> Mhm. Yeah. And they're working on
bringing back mammoths and stuff.
>> Sure.
>> And so they they and they have like
every canine in the world. C
>> When was this?
Three years ago, maybe four. I don't
know.
>> Okay. You weren't responsible for them
bringing back the direwolf.
>> Not that I know of. [laughter]
Not that I know of.
You given them you gave them the DNA.
>> Yeah. They they say they have said that
they have some other sources that it
came from. So So you know, who knows,
right?
>> [laughter]
>> So, but when this when it came back, the
results came back and this was it was
funny cuz we were filming our response
to it and we had the whole team on on it
was like a big old call and Brandon was
on and all of us were yelling and
fighting and swearing not at each other
but at science. We were angry about
science about this and like the
producers are like we should have just
used this instead cuz this was like the
most entertaining TV we've seen cuz we
were so mad about. So the results came
back and basically uh 90 89% basically
90% of it is a non-existent wolf
species. So the remaining 10%
is um Eurasian greywolf and Greenland
greywolf. Those do not live in Utah.
Those are not in the United States.
Though that alone should be a story,
right? What's a Greenland? They're
separated.
>> Yeah, that alone is anomalous.
>> So why are they there? But Colossal
said, and I think they're trying to save
their professionalism. They said, "Well,
from this we can, you know, confidently
declare this as being a greywolf." And
I'm like, 10% of it is a greywolf. What
about the other 90%? 90% is the bulk of
it. If your dog was 10% Chihuahua and
the rest of it was wolf, you would say
this is a wolf, right? You wouldn't say
this is a Chihuahua. You know, it's like
90% of this is a new wolf. Um, and they
put it on their list and they just put
it down as mystery.
>> They didn't want to declare it.
>> They didn't want to call it a direwolf.
They didn't want to call it anything
else. And they they they even they have
like every cane. They even have Papo and
singing dogs genetically sequenced.
>> And then fast forward a few years later,
they're making a direwolf.
>> Now they're making a direwolf. Yeah.
>> Seems a little suspicious.
>> It's It's suspicious. They they they say
it's from some other sources, but um I
don't I don't know because I'm on that
end of things.
>> That's But I mean, that's a massive
coincidence.
>> Yeah, it it's at least noteworthy. If
nothing else, it's it's no
>> definitely noteworthy. And again, the
fact if you're saying this is just a
greywolf, but only 10% of the DNA is a
greywolf and it's greywolves that
shouldn't be in Utah, you know, so what
is this 90% what is this other wolf?
That
>> I mean, isn't that even more exciting
than it being a direwolf?
>> Especially for them to go, oh no, it's
not a direwolf.
>> And then they immediately make a
direwolf.
>> It's suspicious.
>> I mean, that suspicious to me to me
would raise a few flags for sure.
>> Uh, okay. All right. Well, that's I mean
incredibly anomalous and seems
substantial and important.
>> Mhm.
>> Um and yet,
>> you know, still not sufficient to say,
oh, this is, you know, like we don't
have we don't have any any uh provenence
of this like where where do they come
from? Is this a one-off somehow that
survived? Is it a portal like you said?
Is it, you know, um there's there's a
lot of these speculative
uh questions that occur around these
anomalies that
>> seem to go unanswered.
>> Yes.
>> All right. Moving forward, we we now go
to cattle, I guess, cuz we I mean, this
is kind of related. It bit into one of
these. Now, the cattle that it bit into,
the cow that it bit into,
>> that was the one that got killed by the
>> UFO.
Yeah. On camera. And and this this
footage exists. Have I seen this? Okay,
I've probably seen this.
>> Season one. Season one.
>> Um
>> and it's so far back so many other
things happened. People are like, "Oh,
yeah. Wait, yeah, this did happen." See
a UFO hover over a cow and kill it. It's
like that's big. And but we've had other
cattle, too. Like the the if you ever
watch the show, there's this calf. And
earlier in the day, it was fine. Uh
Thomas Winterton saw it running around.
It was fine with all the other calves.
And then all of a sudden all the cattle
just including its mother all back away
on either side and it's running around
in circles going crazy. And normally if
that happens a mother is going to come
along and like hey I'm here for you.
What's going on? And even the mother
backed away. And um its eyes had wided
over it. It its brain had been like
scrambled. They got it off the ranch.
It's permanently blind now but it's
okay. It's healthy. It's recovered. But
they said it looked like something
energetically had affected its brain,
you know, like radiation of the brain or
something.
>> Not mad cow disease or anything.
>> No, they tested they tested for
everything they could and they said it's
healthy once they got it off the ranch
and it was healthier earlier in the day
and all of a sudden just running around
in circles.
So this other this other cow that that
um had come up dead because of you know
after
>> the UFO had appeared and it sort of fell
over and it was all contorted. Did it uh
exhibit the same symptoms as some of the
other smaller mammals in terms of like
decomposing?
>> Uh no with one exception. It seems like
big animals do decompose. Like if we
find a dead elk or a dead cow on the
ranch, normally there's cattle that are
mutilated on the ranch, but then you
have the occasional cow that just seems
to die. They do normally seem to
decompose normally. The one that the UFO
seemed to have killed that one, it did
decompose normally except for there were
no dermested beetles. So once you get to
a certain level of decomposition,
>> yeah, I don't care.
>> Small insects will take take control.
You put a chicken bone in your yard and
within a week you're going to have
domestic beetles that show up out of
nowhere. There were no domestic beetles
and there was some species of green
shiny decomposing beetle that I had not
until I researched it known that that
species existed in Utah. But no dermests
and there's dermestids on the ranch.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> they would just avoid it. Yeah.
>> As well as I guess any other small
critter.
>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. So it it seems like it
did break down like the gastrointestinal
[clears throat] bacteria did break that
thing down but the spine just the
tendons just contorted it in these weird
and again we in paleontology and
paleobiology call that the dinosaur
death pose but the cow did that
perfectly just like ah it's it's wild
looking you see it I'll I'll send you
pictures
>> when you say a dinosaur death pose is
that because of the fossils that we see
of these like
>> Yeah. Yeah. So the the tendons on
dinosaurs and birds they con when when
the tendons start to dry on birds and
dinosaurs they contort this way. Mammals
contort in the fetal position.
>> I see.
>> And the this cow contorted like a
dinosaur.
>> Like a bird. Yeah. Like a bird.
>> Strange. What do you think? What do you
speculate uh a human body would look
like if it had a decomposed and
skinwalker? And if
>> perhaps one already has, you know, but
obviously there's, you know, ancient
burial grounds around there.
>> But what what would your suspicion be?
>> Um, I don't know. But my question is, do
these things do these things because
they're on the ranch or because they're
from the ranch?
>> I see.
>> So, what I want to do a test of is like
I don't bring out like a fryer chicken
and put it out there and see how does
that decompose
>> and then bring one from there and have
it die somewhere else.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Has that not been done? Have
you guys not uh imported any dead bodies
into the ranch? I feel like that's like
an oversight. I feel like you guys
should be
>> It's more just busy. Um just normally
that's on the list of things to do.
That's been on the list for 3 years, but
that is something we want to do some
on-site. Um same thing with some
mushroom um experiments. We're going to
do growing mycelium on there and
different things and microbes, you know,
take microbes on the ranch, grow them
off, take off the ranch, grow them on.
Uh, but it's just so busy, you know,
when they and and when they're doing the
filming, you know, we're usually focused
on big end things and so it's just
finding time to fit the small stuff in,
>> I suppose. Yeah, it's exciting and
there's a lot of things to do. A lot of
hands in the pot as well, you know, from
again from people studying the science,
the physics, the archaeology, the the
landscape, the I mean there's there's
lots to there's lots to look at.
>> Mhm. Um, in terms of animals, there are
some other anomalous uh stories. Uh, one
that you sort of told me over breakfast
about a falcon.
>> Mhm.
>> Can you tell me about that?
>> You know, I always find it funny when
people get worried about secret
government files while simultaneously
they post their entire lives online for
free. And meanwhile, there are companies
out there that know your home address,
where you live, your phone number, your
relatives, and and even past addresses
and relationships. And those companies,
they're data brokers. Their whole
business is collecting your personal
information and selling it quietly and
constantly. Not the cool kind of
mysterious hacker in a basement, but
more like spreadsheets full of your life
getting passed around like trading
cards. That's why I use Incogn. Secogni
contacts data brokers on your behalf and
requests that your personal information
be removed from their databases. So
instead of you trying to hunt these
companies down like some type of digital
bounty hunter and Cognney handles that
request and keeps following up, which is
great [music] because I already spent
enough time going down rabbit holes
online. I don't need a side quest trying
to remove my phone number from 47
websites. If you want to take back some
control over your data, go to
incogn.com/eria52
and use code area52 to save 60% on an
annual plan because your privacy should
not be declassified. Yeah. So, we wanted
to bring some bioindicator species and
we're very cautious about this and some
people immediately attack and say, "How
dare you bring animals onto the ranch?"
And that's dangerous. It's like, well,
humans are animals and we're on the
ranch and there's wild animals on the
ranch, too. So in one sense it's sixes.
We're all at risk, right? But we're very
cautious about it. Uh so first I brought
on owls. I brought a great horn owl and
some barn owls and they would see owls
have threedimensional hearing. Their
ears, one's pointed up, one's pointed
down. These things aren't the ears. The
ears are openings under the feathers.
And they have so they have
three-dimensional hearing. We'd bring
them on the ranch and they'd
bob and they just like they're focusing
in on things that were not there. when
we're out in the helicopter field and
the uh the east field, they would just
like and we just documented them seeing
things. So, I'm going to bring an owl
out again this year. Uh then we said,
well, let's try flying some falcons. So,
we brought out a couple paragan falcons
and they each had on a radio transmitter
and a three-dimensional GPS transmitter.
So, two different totally different ways
of measuring things. So, we first went
and we're like, let's fly through the
triangle. So Eric and I went up on the
hill and there the triangle is this
anomalous zone on the ranch where crazy
things happen. So I had my friend down
below calling the falcon in. And while
Eric and I were on the hill, the 3D GPS
says we're bouncing up in the air and
jumping all over the place and we're
just standing there and so it's already
wigging out. When the bird flew through
the triangle, as it went through the
triangle, the radio transmitter
flared up both times. And then once the
bird was on the ground, my buddy was
picking it up. It said that he was like
spock in fast motion, you know, just
like and he was just sitting there. So
we did that twice. I thought, "Okay,
that's kind of weird. Let's go to the
eastfield." So we went to the eastfield.
We start flying the Falcon. It's flying
up. It's doing good. We're like, "Okay,
this is interesting. Let's uh call it
back down. It comes back down and we
have a lure. It's like a fake bird. You
swing around, you put it on the ground,
the bird lands and you go pick him up.
So my buddy does that and right as it
gets by the ground, it freaks out. It's
like ah and it kind of like panics every
time and goes back up a bit, goes to
come back down. Something on the ground
was repelling it. It was something
repulsed it from going down. So it
freaked out. It started going up, going
up, going up. and got to about 800 feet
and the GPS blips start missing. It's
like beep beep beep beep beep and and
keeps going up, keeps going up. We're
filming, the TV crew is filming and all
a sudden the bird disappears. We're
like, my buddy's like, "My falcon,
where'd it go?" And then on the GPS, it
reappears over the triangle, which is
about a mile away. And so we go running
over there.
>> How long of a time between
immediately?
>> Impossible.
>> Impossible. And now the and when it
disappeared, no GPS, no radio signal.
The second it reappears, the uh radio
transmitter is working 100% correctly.
We can see the bird. Radio transmitter
is working. The GPS is now mirroring the
bird's motions, but it's in the wrong
place.
>> It's in the wrong place. And when we got
the bird back and pulled up the data, it
says the bird went through the mesa.
>> Whoa. which is impossible. And it's
important to note if you follow this
stuff, if you watch the TV show where
the bird went in the mesa, we have at
night a a white orb that goes into the
mesa at that same spot. And there's
another season where Brandon's flying in
the helicopter at sunset, still
daylight, and a white orb comes out of
the mesa below him. That is the same
place where the falcon went in and where
the falcon reappeared. So, you got to
piece those things together. Maybe
they're related, maybe they're not. The
falcon 100% fine. It was kind of like,
oh, a little alarmed, but it was fine,
healthy. Birds alive and happy today,
still being flown. That's incredible.
But that's impossible. They didn't put
it on the show just because they
sometimes you'll put it later on in the
season or you'll put it in the next
season and like, oh, I was this season.
But there were some people in those
shots that aren't on the show anymore
and so like, oh, well, now we can't do
this. And I'm like, this is really
important.
>> Yeah. should still be released. You
don't have access to that footage.
>> I I have access to the GPS. I have the
GPS data, which I have I'm I bet I can
get permission to share that, but I
haven't been given permission. I But I
have I got Brandon gave me permission to
share this story because I'm like, this
needs to be out there. If it's never
going to be on the show, the world needs
to know that.
>> I mean, a teleporting bird is quite
substantial, especially if you got it on
camera disappearing and then reappearing
elsewhere. You know, as a magician, I
would uh you know, obviously, oh, it's
just two identical birds, [laughter]
>> you know, it's the old twin trick, the
old prestige illusion.
>> Well, and we had we also had when those
of us cuz I was filming with my c Eric
Bard was holding my phone and filming
and a lot of us were hand filming and I
I know a I don't remember who else's,
but I know for sure my camera while it
was filming just shut off and battery
100% dead. And I know a couple other
people were having issues while they
were filming it right before the bird
disappeared. So
>> yeah, that seems to be part for the
course there as well. It's just like
phones scrambled like you said or
uncharging or just shutting off or not
working.
>> Yeah,
>> that's Yeah, very very strange. What are
some of the other things that you were
not allowed to talk about previously?
Um, [clears throat]
I mean, one of the one of the ones is
there's there seems to be a jaguar on
the ranch and we filmed it also. Um,
which this brings up a lot of different
points. So, jaguars were they ranged all
the way to Canada during the ice age.
People think of a jaguar as being
tropical or desert, uh, but they used to
range all the way up north. And
supposedly regular jaguars and the ice
age jaguar, which both lived at the same
time, now we only have the one
supposedly. They shouldn't really be any
further north than like Arizona. Um,
barely, right? But we started seeing on
the ranch, Utah is in a 25-y year
drought. Um, it's just prey populations,
animal populations are rock bottom. And
all of the sudden on the ranch, all the
populations started to explode. um
feeasants, quail, magpies, ground
squirrels, prairie dogs, jack rabbits,
cottontails, turkeys just started to
explode, which suggests that a carnivore
that eats them like a coyote is being
kicked out. And um we started to find
these giant cat prints, which we just
assumed, oh, it's a big cougar, you
know, something like that. Um, but then
we started also have scat samples uh
that we took and they had coyote guard
hairs in them and raccoons. So something
is killing and eating coyotes and
killing and eating raccoons. Now wolves
don't eat coyotes, they kill them. It's
kind of like you wouldn't eat a
chimpanzeee. That would seem weird.
We're too closely related. It's kind of
like it's eating a cousin, right? Wolves
kill coyotes, but they don't eat them.
Whatever this is doing, it's killing and
eating coyotes and killing and eating
raccoons and hunting from the water.
It's going along the the little river
there, which jaguars do. And then um we
had uh the uh Caleb on the head of
security there. He uh one of his friends
just off the ranch filmed and I've got
this footage of black jaguar and it's
shiny. It's reflective. And I've gone to
the site and checked the size and shape
of all the bush there and everything.
It's like it's a daytime black jaguar
just off the ranch. And it's like, okay,
is this this it? Is this the big cat?
Um, you would and people have said,
well, if that's the case, okay, is this
just a jaguar that's moved up north,
really far north, or is this a portal
opening up from the past? Is it a modern
jaguar? Is it a prehistoric jaguar?
Don't know. But it's that that should be
far bigger news. And I I don't know why,
but that is not catching. People are not
talking about that. And it's like
>> even if
>> Well, because we have Jaguars.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's
>> unfortun Unfortunately,
>> you know, you could take a Bengal tiger
>> Mhm.
>> and and just drop it in central London
and or you know what I mean? And people
would be like, "Wow, it's just
somebody's pay."
>> You know, it it it wouldn't um the
significance of it wouldn't resonate
with most people, I think. And that and
I think that's part of the issue with a
lot of the scientific approach to the
phenomenon itself because
>> in a vacuum individually whether it's
through geology, paleontology, ancient
architecture, uh physics like all of
these individual platforms
will showcase highly anomalous and
seemingly groundbreaking truths.
But to the general lay audience,
it'll just seem like semantics or or or
like, oh, it's this is just their jargon
and it's not really relatable or
translatable to the general populace,
which is why, you know, I would I think
they want to see a flying saucer. They
want to see, you know, a little green
man or whatever.
>> Um, but
>> well, yeah. I mean, I always tell people
I'm like, "Hey, if a UFO comes over and
lands and a little alien gets out and
says, "Hi, that's earthshattering, but
it's not more profound than if you have
decomposition halted, almost like the
animal is suspended in time. It's like
if you have no internal gastrointestinal
bacteria doing anything, no external
bacteria doing anything, rigamortis not
setting in, no scavengers bothering it,
that is breaking the known laws of
nature and of physics. A UFO coming and
saying hi is more amazing, but it's not
more profound. You're not breaking
anything. That's just whoa, right? You
know, but yet I would I would rather see
that. But this over here is actually far
stranger,
>> more significant.
>> Yeah. I mean it just it's we don't see
it that way but that's how it actually
is.
>> So like it's interesting too to think
about this just because the the
decomposition like you said right there
something stuck with me that that it's
paused almost like it's suspended in
time.
>> Does that not also affect the living?
>> We don't know. We have seen issues with
time happen. Um that has been documented
on the ranch and even on the show. Um
small differentiations in time. uh that
definitely have happened. There's kind
of like a bubble over the ranch. They
they called it the cone and then the
dome and now they call it the bubble. So
there's a region it's not quite a mile
wide and it's not it doesn't stay. It
kind of moves a little, you know, give
or take 20 ft on either side. But what's
really weird about this is for example
like little things like ants. Who cares
about ants? But yeah, these are
bioindicator species. Outside of the
bubble, antills normal. It's high piled
up silica. Get rid of all the organics.
Get rid of the dust. It's only silica.
So, it's a big old solar panel. Warm up
the colony at sunrise. Inside they make
this I'll send you pictures. Inside it's
this stupid thing. It's not It's got
grass all around it. And in it, it's not
even an ant colony. It doesn't look like
an ant colony at all. And it would not
allow them to warm up. And on the
border, the ants are going crazy. They
attack you. If you are on, we we put uh
posts all around the border of this
bubble and we were just there and these
ants started attacking us and we filmed
them. They're just running around in
circles like in this big of an area.
They're just like
it's like they're going crazy. They're
not harvesting. They're not defending or
attacking. They're just going around in
circles like their brains are being
fried. And so we're like, uh, let's
let's get away from this area because if
this is happening to them, what's
happening to us being right here?
>> Absolutely. Dude, that was my next
question is like, isn't that what you
guys are doing too? [laughter]
>> Kind of going around in circles trying
to measure this stuff, you know, like
>> it is it is interesting when you're like
whatever it is you're measuring seems to
be changing.
>> Mhm.
>> Um, you know, there's there's always
that sort of philosophical question or
even deeply scientific question of, you
know, can anything truly is anything
truly measurable? you know, because if
it knows it's being observed, if it's
conscious on some level, then what
you're getting is, you know, it's a
skew. It's not
>> Yeah.
>> Um, perfect. So, do do you think that
there's any merit to measuring anything
at all there? Like, I mean, because it
feels like it's just always appealing to
you got to have something. You got to
have some sort of language and and math
and measurements are kind of the
language of science. Uh what we've seen
is that all all the religious folk are
using scientific terms and all the
scientists are using religious terms
because none of us have a vocabulary to
describe this stuff. Like if we say,
"Hey, a portal." You're going to picture
Rick and Morty, right? Worm a portal
opens up. But that's we're just that's a
term that we all know and that's
actually a clunky term. What is this?
Some of these port these portals that
happen on the triangle, they seem to not
just be point A to point B, you know,
when we're measuring them with these
different instruments. It's like I is it
coming through time? Is it coming
through space? What is this? We don't
know. So portal is a clunky term. It's a
good term because you get the general
idea, but we don't know what it is. But
we got to have something. And so I agree
the phenomenon is always one step ahead
of us. And sometimes it's it's
tricksterish or occasionally mean and
occasionally it even attacks people. But
it also will kind of lead you along
like, "Hey, look over here. I'm going to
teach you a little more. Oh, good job,
little monkey. You you learn. I'm going
to teach you a little more." Um, but you
have to you have to have something. And
so it may be, oh, okay, like I said,
okay, small animals don't decompose. Big
animals do decompose. If you're in the
water, you do seem to decompose.
>> That's measurable. That's I've I've put
those ground rules on. They might not
apply at all. Maybe it's just random.
Maybe that's just what I found in
certain instances and maybe it doesn't
apply elsewhere. But I'm just trying to
make a framework. That's what we're
trying to do. It's it's
>> seems like that's the toughest thing to
do there.
>> Because even creating a framework based
on what we already know doesn't seem to
be working.
>> Yeah. Because we grew up with certain
rules, rules of nature, rules of
physics, and they don't seem to apply
there. So what are the rules then? You
you don't know. Oh, and how do you take
a measurement if you say, "Okay, this is
this is 10 in long." Well, if an inch
isn't actually an inch, and sometimes an
inch is 3 in, it's like, what are you
talking about? It doesn't make sense.
So, you that's what it's like.
>> So,
from from your own personal knowledge
and your own personal speculation,
what's in the mesa?
>> Uh, is that something you can talk
about?
>> I can't talk much about it. Um, I can
talk some about what's on the show. It
doesn't make sense. Well, I will say
this. I think I'm okay. I I'm I think
I'm okay to say this. If you watch the
if you go if you go on Google Earth and
Google Maps and look over the years and
if you watch the show, so I'm just
sharing what you should be able to see
publicly. The mesa is that area is
sinking in on itself and has been
steadily. If when you look at it like
first season, it's almost that section
is pretty normal and where the thing is
in the mesa seems to be moving in and
noticeably. So watch from season one
until now and you'll be like, "Oh gee."
>> And that's been discussed.
>> I don't think it's been discussed on the
show, but all of us but all of us are
like, "Um, what's going on here?"
>> [clears throat]
>> It's it's
>> it it seems to be moving in in that area
>> cuz the messes definitely seems to be
like the crux of of a lot of this
activity and obviously also a giant
uh accelerator for you know the
phenomenon but also for ratings like I
mean let's be honest like I mean the
mystery stays alive people tune in every
week they want to see what happens
what's in the mesa what percentage of
that hype is related ated to uh the show
wanting to have another season versus
man there's genuinely something here
that we're really interested in but we
don't have the capacity to get in there
like what it's it's it's 100% legitimate
I think um we people default to what
they picture in the head like I said you
know if you say portal you picture Rick
and Morty and you it's a visual you get
right and I've seen I'll I'll tell you
later on if you want I'll tell you a
story where I saw a portal um and we
witnessed it Um, same thing. If you say
there's something in the mesa, what do
you probably picture? A UFO? Probably
picture some saucer in there and we just
got to get to it. Well, whatever is
going on there is more abstract. We
found uh material that we can
deconstruct under radiation and then
rebuilds itself. That's impossible. We
found green leaves dating back to the
eosene, which is impossible. And then
you take them out and they dry out. It's
like, okay, that's what are you doing
hundreds of feet down in a mesa? They
found ceramics with uh um atomic
layering, you know, amazing material. I
don't I'm not privy to a lot of that. I
know a lot of that is coming out soon.
Some of the materials they found in the
mesa, but they also found like I think a
penny deep in the mesa. What's that?
Were people down there in the past? I
think it was like 1920s or 1930s,4s,
something like that. Penny they found in
there deep in the mesa. How can that be
there? Who put it there? Was it there?
Was the messa Did it used to be open or
is there that have something to do with
time or is that the phenomenon showing
us something
>> or some type of like by by the sound of
this it it sounds like there might be
some type of uh mine
>> or something down there like I mean if
it's collapsing in on itself that would
make sense. A penny would make sense.
>> Yeah. So what whatever's going on there
it [sighs] it I think it's more
abstract. I think we want the visual of
there is an object in the mesa. We got
to get to it. whatever is happening
there and the things coming out of it. I
think it's more abstract than that. I
mean, it could just be simply, yeah,
UFOs there, you know, some craft crash
in there a long time. It could be
absolutely, but I think we default to
that because
>> we're drawn to the unknown, but we don't
want the we don't want a nebulous
answer.
>> We want here's the unknown and here's
the known. It's a craft cuz it just
like, you know, as as an outsider
looking in, you know, we're familiar
with uh you know, there's a show on TV
called um it's uh what was it? Not Skull
Island, but
>> oh uh Oak Island.
>> Oak Island. There you go. It's in Canada
as well. I should know this.
>> Uh but the secret of Oak Island. And it
it feels like they keep leading you on
every season. You're just like, we're
not we're going to get it. We're going
to get it. And like the more I watch
Skinwalker, the more I get this feeling
now that I'm like, can't we just like
get in there? Can't we just, you know,
we we have it seems like we have the
financial resources to get this done. Um
but then, you know, the machinery starts
breaking down or like the the technology
starts going haywire. It always feels
like a convenient sort of uh thing that
happens that protects this area. and
convenient in the sense that like this
is also the area that people want to see
on TV. So you understand my uh slight
frustration not not I'm still
entertained by it thoroughly but there
is there is this feeling and I think a
lot of people also feel that to a
certain extent. Um
>> what part of that for you is completely
true that yeah there is that
>> factor here where we just want to you
know film a TV show and we have to be
careful or no there's just no way of
getting in there like what is that? So
um among the people who are on the show
and among the different scientists, the
people on the team, we get frustrated
because first of all the amount of shows
they put on, you can't show all that
happens. Uh a lot of times the editors
>> there's just too much.
>> There's too much. And a lot of times the
editors will pick and choose and they'll
say, so it's not the team, it's the
editors will say, "Well, hey, we think
this over here makes for compelling TV."
And it's like, but this thing that
doesn't seem like again, it's a lack of
decomposition, time being frozen, um,
desert trumpet plants growing in
whackadoodle ways in certain areas. Some
of these things that have happened.
We've I Okay, I can only because they
might use some point. We caught a flying
mammal on camera that doesn't exist. And
I'll just say that much. It's like I I
did ask Brandon to be able to say that
much, but they might use it, but it's
like that's huge. Why aren't we saying
that? Well, because some of these things
are more compelling and they're going to
draw people in more and it's like
>> a flying mammal.
>> Mammal. The powered flight. No, no. Um,
no. Not a bat. Not a flying squirrel.
>> Yeah.
>> Flying mammal.
>> I'm running out of options here.
>> Doesn't exist. Long face, long weird
curled in whiskers. Almost like a
bentong. If you ever see those curled in
whiskers, long tail, not a web tail. And
we've Yeah. So, I probably shouldn't say
more than that, but
we've got it documented. So, keep after
us. If if if they don't if they don't
let us put that in the show, then then
let's then I'll say, "Hey, Brandon, can
we pretty please get this information
out there?" Um, because if you know,
>> but it seems like scientific discovery
is then taking a backseat to
>> on the show, but not on the actual
investigation.
>> No, but Okay. So you guys are
investigating it year round
>> in in in in a really formal and
professional capacity. You're just not
releasing that information,
>> correct? And um I and some of it I mean
there's some of it's just barely off the
ranch cuz the whole you basin where
Skinwalker Ranch is it's almost like a
funnel and like the the most happens on
the ranch but that whole basin is weird.
People are seeing UFOs all the time.
People were seeing weird shape shifting
things, but it seems to the epicenter is
the wrench. And I mean, um, uh, Caleb
and Nathan had me come out, you know, a
few weeks ago to check out this cow that
died and wasn't decomposing and we no
bloating and we were documenting it was
just barely off the ranch and it was
healthy and just died. And they're like,
was this and nothing no scavengers would
touch it. So we put game cameras up on
it and nothing was bothering it. We had
a raven come up and like and a coyote
came up to it and and ran off. Don't
know what that means, but I mean these
kind of things aren't going to end up in
the show. That one was just barely off
the ranch.
>> So,
>> uh there's so much year round that's
happening there and the the Skinwalker
Rancher Insiders that helps, you know,
where we can year round have people keep
an eyes on campus.
>> True.
>> But there Yeah, there's a lot that just
probably will never come out.
>> What's something that you would do
differently if you were in charge of all
this? Not, and I'm not saying that in a
way that like you know better than
anybody, but I'm just I'm I'm curious
about like where your head's at. What
would you prioritize?
>> Um I would I would say let's make a list
of what we do know or the Okay, we
here's the known rules of the universe.
Here's what we think the rules on the
ranch. Like I told you the thing about
decomposition.
>> Yes.
>> What do we think the rules are? And
let's test what we think the new rules
are. you know, let and each of our
fields, let's go through and say, let's,
you know, specify some new experiments
to test whether or not these new
perceived rules are the rules. Um,
that's that's what I would do. That's
what I would focus on. Um, you know,
maybe not on camera, but, you know,
that's that's where I'd put my effort.
Yeah, because it seems like that's
pretty substantial in in
terms of just specifically the
decomposition
>> or the I guess halting of decomposition
or or or slowing down whatever whatever
that is.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> could essentially be very beneficial
>> for studying things. Oh yeah. you know,
if if we had the ability to mummify
things in a way that preserved their
organs
>> um and didn't necessarily destroy the
tissue,
>> uh I feel like that would be a
breakthrough for paleontology, for
biology, for all types and even perhaps,
you know, answering some of the
questions on you know um the
preservation of youth or the longevity
of our own lifespans like I mean it
feels related.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is, you know, we
should have a better understanding of it
because it's not just it's internal and
external.
>> Mhm. Wow.
>> And other life forms. Again, if
scavengers coming up are like deterred.
Yeah. What's what's doing that? So, and
and we we we the cattle mutilations,
too. It's like I was so skeptical of
cattle mutilations growing up. You know,
I've heard about them my whole life. Um,
but then as I've started uh both on the
ranch and as I've talked with other
people in other cases and uh MUON has a
really good record of them and they've
helped me and I've gone out to some of
these sites. It's like there actually is
something to this. I did not want to
admit that. I'm admitting that. Not all
of them.
>> Yeah.
>> But there absolutely is something to it.
Why? Why cattle? And we the joke is I
don't know if you remember um the Star
Trek where they went back to get the
whales. There's a Star Trek episode
where they go back in time. There's this
probe that comes from space and it's
shooting this this beam at the Earth and
it's like causing all this chaos in
these oceans and they turn out well it's
actually it's trying to communicate with
whales but we've made whales extinct. So
they go back in time and bring some
whales back and and like Spock says, if
we were to assume that this message was
meant for humans, that shows our
arrogance because maybe it's for another
life form. And it was it was for whales,
right? So who knows? Maybe cattle or
what matter. Maybe maybe aliens are
coming from somewhere they don't care
about us, but they're curious about
cattle.
>> Yeah. People in India would be
>> would be right about a lot of things in
that case.
>> Yeah. which I don't say that's what it
is, but I'm just saying you got to be
open to the possibility you're wrong and
you should listen. Not every theory
>> is going to be equal value, but it is
valuable to hear it, even if it's wrong.
>> The boine is a sacred animal in many
cultures. It also is one of the only uh
species that we're sort of compatible
with on in like uh I believe like the
plasma or something something to do with
the blood
>> like boine blood especially uh
>> I think fetuses
>> um and I'm not a biologist by in any in
any by any means but I I've read that
there are some similarities there as
well as even
um the the sort of tallow how it's like
it's good for For us, it's it our skin
recognizes it as our own. And so, like,
there's there's all this like overlap
between us and and boine that seems to
uh seems to be related.
>> And if that's the case, then, you know,
>> it it I don't know. It makes for
interesting speculation. I I had a guest
in here recently that was talking about,
you know, his alleged um alien
abductions and he was then sort of
deferring to the the idea
>> that they feed on blood somehow
[clears throat] like but um is it's
consumed not orally but like
>> like absorbing it.
>> Exactly. Like they sit in these vats or
whatever. Um, and that
it would it would make sense that their
blood would be sort of compatible if we
are
>> related to these species that are taking
these cows or whatever it is or taking
their blood. But the the desanguination
is just I think the most bizarre part of
all this because there's never even in
winter
>> that's what like blew my mind.
>> Yeah.
>> I live in Canada, we get a lot of snow.
I take a piss in the snow. you're going
to see it,
>> right? Let alone if a a drop of blood
touches the snow. These things have no
blood in them. And there's no blood
around them, no tracks leading up or
going to or from them. No struggle.
They're just dead on their side,
>> you know, with these holes bored in them
and with no blood left. Like, what are
you supposed to make of that, you know?
>> Yeah. Like, how how do you frame that in
a way that makes any sense? And I think
hearing way out there theories is
important because even if it's wrong,
it's going to get you to think outside
of your mindset and then you're going to
make the real connection of what it is
over here. So I think it's good to hear
all these things. They're thought
experiments even if you don't agree with
it or you think, "Oh, this is crazy."
Sure,
>> but tell me anyways because I want the
thought experience cuz it's going to
it's going to get your mind going
because we we work in these bubbles, you
know, and and you need somebody to think
outside of the box and to share a
different perspective to help you make
new perspectives that are different than
the perspective they're sharing.
>> Correct. And I don't I don't I don't
have a working theory on what the cattle
mutilation thing is. Again, my brain
goes to, you know, 1990s UFO
picking up a cow and, you know, that's
the visual I get. Same thing you say
portal, bam, Rick and Morty appears in
my head.
>> Well, whatever it is, the phenomenon is
real. It's verifiable. Not every case
is, but it absolutely is. Um, what is
it? I don't know. I, you know, and I I
feel like my theories are painfully
lacking on what it could, what what
their hypothesis,
>> their hypothesis. And you know, of
course, the brain goes to, you know, a
nonhuman intelligence, but it could be
something totally abstract that we don't
even know,
>> right?
>> Absolutely could.
>> Could be some other primitive life form
that that is intelligent in its own
right, but that has nothing to do with
our type of
>> Yeah.
>> you know, intelligence.
>> Uh that's so fascinating. I'm very
fascinated by all this in terms of um
other biological anomalies that occur on
the ranch.
>> What else sticks out to you? I know you
mentioned something about plants. Is
there any, you know, flora?
>> So, so one of the things we found
there's a region we call it the runway
and it just the plants grow in what
looks like a runway. We don't understand
it. And there's a plant, it's called
golden hairy aster. It's kind of wild
name there, but it's this plant that
grows there. And what we found is on
either side of this runway, it was
growing normal. And in the runway, it
was the leaves were growing. It it
looked like they had been radiated. They
look they looked all like withered and
like so when when radiation hits a life
form, it mutates the cells. And you
know, a cell is just, you know,
reproduce reproduce. And if you're get
the wrong code, you start growing. You
become Yeah. And erratic. So they were
doing that and I thought well could
would the acidity and the alkalinity be
different and so we said well it should
be in the ground. So we took samples
from the ground from these plants and
checked them uh the plants themselves
and in the ground and we did find a
difference in the alkalinity and the
acidity based off of in the runway
versus on either side of it. We did find
that
>> right beside it.
>> Mhm. And we wanted to we didn't we we
want to go back and do this. I want to
also test for like isopods and and you
know um small arthropods in the ground
and see are they growing differently.
Are they affected by this? Um there's
one plant that I love this plant. It's
called a desert trumpet plant. It's in
the buckwheat family. If you research
it, you're going to get a lot of
misinformation because it grows in these
weird bulbs. And there's this this one
guy like in the 70s wrote and said, "Oh,
this wasp burrows a hole and then it
goes and grows that way." That's not why
it grows that way. They do that after
the fact. But it's such a strange and
specific plant that Star Trek based an
alien life form off of it. It's a really
cool plant, but it grows in a
mathematically perfect way. Uh I I wrote
up the formula for the growth, like if
you were going to code it into a
computer and replicate it.
>> And on this one part of the ranch, it
would grow the first stage normal, go to
the second stage normal, and the last
stage it went like totally crazy. and
the next year they did not. And so if
the So plants grow in stages and so the
assumption is that there was an
energetic event that happened kind of
like with this golden aster something
happened that year at this one growth
stage. Something did it and that's the
same field that the falcon disappeared
on and then reappear over the triangle.
So
>> you know so the plants are telling us
things too. The plants are if you look
and listen to what they're saying, the
plants are the arthropods are the frogs
are on the ranch. You know, I told we
talked about the magpie nest. Yeah. That
built or was that
>> I think we talked about that breakfast
if you want to go back to that cuz I
thought that was really interesting.
>> So on that north south the path of the
skinwalker that goes
>> let's let's lay the land here a little
bit. The path of the skinw walker what
is that exactly and why is that an
important place? So without getting too
much into politics and again every tribe
is going to share their history through
their own voice, but the general uh what
is told is that in the past the Ute
tribe and the Navajo tribe, the Da had
some beef and had some bad things happen
between them. And so the Navajo cursed
the Ute with the path of the Skinwalker
that goes from the south from Navajo
land up north to the Ute reservation
which runs right through Skinwalker
Ranch and along a very specific path.
And the ranch has a fence line going
along that path. And there's
petetroglyphs on this path. It's a very
specific thing. It's not just loosely
the path of the skinwalker. It's
literally
>> Have you walked this path?
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Anything weird happened to you?
>> Constantly. I mean, that's where that's
where Yeah. That's where we lots of
cattle mutilations have happened there.
If you watch the show, the big hole
through the tree happened there. And
[clears throat] the magpies. Magpies
build a really specific nest. They make
a um like a clay nest like a robin and
then they make a stick nest around it
with walls and a ceiling and a front
door. It's very specific, very
recognizable. And on this path in this
tree right next to it, they build it,
but they build it wrong. Like their
orientation is wrong, their under axis
is wrong. And so the eggs fall out and
they lay more eggs. The eggs fall out.
They lay more eggs and they do it every
year. They'll build a new nest. Same
thing. And it's all crooked and the eggs
keep falling out. So happens again and
again and again every single time. And
>> what do compasses? Do they act up in
that area as well or there?
>> Yes. Um
>> so there does seem to be like a
geomagnetic anomaly there.
>> Yeah. But the weird thing is like a
regular compass will about half the time
be messed up there and half the time it
works. But if you have a digital compass
on your phone, the anomaly is like, "Oh,
really?"
>> [laughter]
>> and it'll like spin it and make it just
do all kinds of crazy things. Meanwhile,
you have a real compass and it's like,
"Okay, I'm messing with you a little."
But if it's digital, it has a heyday. It
goes wild. Absolutely wild.
>> That's so silly cuz this should not be
related.
>> Yeah. What does digital have to do with
it?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Whoa. Okay. So, this
I mean this is so this makes me want to
go out there. Um, do you ever think do
like if I if I went there, do you think
they would they would give me a tour
>> if you if if we connected with with
Brandon? Um,
>> yeah, I have his phone number.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You
>> we've spoken maybe a year ago cuz um uh
I have some friends out in Utah as well
and and they know Brandon and they're
putting me in touch and whatnot, but I
know he's a busy guy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's he's really cool and if
you can get him and he's busy, you know,
he he'd probably be open to that. He's
It's not just like open for business,
but you know, but he loves to help
people get a get a beat on it and
understand and help push this
information out there. So, I I think
he'd be very open to it.
>> Yeah, it'd be interesting. I'd be
interested. There is the you know the
one concern that the audience keeps
bringing up with with this stuff as well
as friends who talk to me about it is
this hitchhiker effect
>> and that is this this idea that by
visiting this place you are then opening
yourself up to the phenomenon in a way
that will follow you
>> uh back to back to your home. Have you
experienced the hitchhiker effect?
>> I am one of the only people who has not
and I'm grateful for that. just about
everybody who's who I know of who's like
the the main team on the ranch, you
know, there's there's other contractors
that maybe come like once a season kind
of thing, but but um the just about
everybody I know has had some sort of a
skin uh some sort of a hitchhiker effect
happen to them and I haven't. I've had I
think more strange things happen to me
on the ranch kind of in the paranormal
kind of more of like in the ghostly type
stuff than most people have that I've
talked to. But off the ranch, I've had
basically nothing.
>> What's your explanation for that? What
makes you immune?
>> I I'm not I don't know. I don't know. I
don't I'm I come in really wanting to
understand very much. So, I don't come
in as a believer, but as a it's like,
hey, there's something here. I want to
understand it. And I very very much want
to understand it. And that I mean,
that's what I love about it. For me,
when I had this opportunity, I jumped at
it because I thought I don't want an
anecdotal story. I want to know
firsthand. I want my own photos, my own
data that I And for anybody else now,
it's anecdotal to them. I'm sorry. And
if you don't believe me, I don't care.
That's fine. I salute you. Great. You
don't believe me? Fine. But I'm sharing
I'm just sharing the experiences. Take
it as you will and do what you want with
it. I am just reporting back cuz I've
been grateful for this opportunity and I
want to share as much of it as I'm
allowed to. And I want other minds on
it. I want other people because I mean,
think about it. I'm making assumptions
that might not be connected. They might
have not a jaguar might be totally
unrelated. It might just be
coincidental. If there's a jaguar
running around up there, that could be a
totally unrelated thing. And Ben the
biologist says, "Oh, this is connected."
Maybe it's not.
>> And so having other people talking about
this and and questioning it is good. So
you think your open-mindedness is
warding off this hitchhiker effect to
some extent?
>> I think well I think it is instead it is
toning down the trickster element. I
think it I I I've had a lot of
experiences some of them I don't share
publicly that seem to be like it's
trying to show me and teach me. I' I've
had more teaching moments. I think um I
think a lot of the people have come in
with healthy skepticism. A lot of them
have no background in this kind of
stuff. You know, it's a it's just like
raw regular science and and and so
they're just highly skeptical, which is
good. Well, I always say don't don't be
a skeptic, be skeptical. A skeptic is a
predetermined. I don't believe Yeah.
Say, uh show me the evidence and let me
make my ass. That's good. It's hard to
be skeptical, but I think there's so
many people who come in so brash and and
they don't they want to don't want to be
made a fool. I don't care to be a fool.
If I'm wrong, oh, I was wrong. Okay,
let's recalibrate. I don't mind being
wrong. I don't I don't mind that. And
so, I've had a lot of instances where
kind of the trickster element. I I think
among everybody there, my phone has been
hacked in the least. I think it's only
happened twice. It was like the first
season there. That's so crazy to me that
your phone's been hacked in twice and
it's happened the least.
>> Yeah. Yeah. People have to have to
replace their phones.
>> If I'm going there with my phone there,
you're saying there's a 100% chance that
my phone will act up.
>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. It especially
>> I would document the hell out of my
phone.
>> Yeah. Get a second phone and film it.
>> Exactly. Or a camera, not a phone, to
film my phone cuz that'll act up too.
>> Yeah. But Yeah. And some people it ruins
their phone completely and scramble it
and they have to get a new one. Um and
so you know so you're saying that the
phenomenon is obviously aware
on some conscious level.
>> It behaves that way
>> of what your intention is
>> and it knows ahead of time
>> and so what do you mean it knows ahead
of time?
>> It it it's it somehow it can anticipate.
If you're going to do an experiment it
knows what the experiment's going to be.
Do you ever have things that happened to
you before going to Skinwalker Ranch
that are sort of in hindsight you go,
"Oh, it was preparing me or it was
showing me or it was telling me
something?"
>> There's been things that that might just
be synchronicity. It might be you're
seeing what you want to see and I can't
rule that out. But there's some things
where like I'll meet somebody or have a
conversation ahead of time and then I
get to the ranch and
>> it'll feel just totally synchronous
>> lines up which that could just be
coincidence.
>> Could be also like a synchronicity
generator happening type thing. Like I
mean I wouldn't completely put it past
like if we're also delving into this
sort of paranormal or transdimensional
you know hypothesis then you know the
idea that synchronicities might also be
enhanced in and around this place I
think would be fair to say.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, okay. So,
the best I'm trying to in my head I'm
trying to like build up armor here for
for you know an eventual trek to this
area and I might you know I I think I do
have a a healthy balance of u skepticism
but open-mindedness and and um
>> this is actually helping me uh prepare
because I hear about these stories and
although you know part of me wants to
chalk it up to
confirmation bias
to, you know, a suggestion cuz
suggestion is very powerful as well.
Like if um if you're completely against
being hypnotized and you're like, I
don't believe in hypnosis and you'll
never hypnotize me.
>> And then which you're right, you won't
be able to. But then if your best friend
who you've known since you were a child,
I hypnotized them in front of you,
>> something in the back of your mind in
your subconscious changes. Yeah. You
might still say, "Well, he's just, you
know, in on it, or you'll never get me."
But something fundamentally changes to
where now you're able to being
hypnotized.
>> Yeah.
>> And and so
>> I I think about that a lot when this
hitchhiker effect occurs and you have
these skeptics going in these staunch
sort of debunkers and they're the ones
who seem to be affected the most
>> and attacked. I I don't like saying it.
I mean, because I I love everybody who's
everybody I've met out there who works
both both the the people doing the
research and people doing security and
even the film crew, you know, I've
worked with film crews on other projects
and it's like there's always some drama,
right? Zero drama. These are good
people. They're sincere. A lot of them
are skeptical, too, but they're like,
"Hey, we're just going to film this and
document this." Good people. But I have
seen that if if you if you So, if you go
to the ranch, go with a teach me. just
come with that attitude. Be like, "Hey,
I'm I'm skeptical. I'm not a skeptic. I
just want to learn. I want to
experience. I want to feel. And I
understand. I might have a little
confirmation bias that might be kind of
leading me on. I'm aware of that, but
still teach me and it'll show you
things." Um, but if you and like me, I
mean, that's always been my attitude,
right? But like this is the portal
story.
>> Sure. Yeah. Let's get into this.
>> But this is one of those ones where I
kind of questioned it and what happened.
It was kind of interesting. So, um me
and uh one of my friends, Charlie, we
were there and we it was night time and
we said, "Let's go do some
astrophotography." And it's great night,
Milky Way out. So, we went over to this
area. Um and we put up our cameras,
start taking pictures. And this isn't
important, but I I share this is part of
the story. All of a sudden, we heard
something going along the creek. And you
know, maybe it was just a coyote or
raccoon, but all the frogs and crickets
stopped, stopped, stop, and we got this
kind of creepy feeling. Great. Who cares
about feelings? Feelings. But anyways,
that kind of creeped us out for a bit,
but then it went away and that feeling
got away. It went back to normal. We got
all these great photos. We're having a
good time. And I said, "You know what,
Charlie? Sometimes this ranch is really
creepy feeling. And sometimes, like
right now, it just feels like a regular
beautiful old ranch in northern Utah."
He's like, "Yeah, I know what you mean.
Like right now, it's just a cool,
beautiful place at night." And the
second we both said that, we hear a
sound and it's if you shoot a 22 bullet
across the desert, that
>> and also if you've ever been on a frozen
lake, that
that breaking sound. It was those two
sounds.
>> You're pretty good at those sounds, by
the [laughter] way. is is those two
sounds together and we both turn to it
and we look over in about 8 9 ft up I
don't know like 20 30 ft away we see and
it had already started we see an
expansion ring coming out now it was lit
but it was not self-elilluminating if it
was like it was expanding out so fast
horizontally that if you've ever seen
like explosions in slow motion where the
shock wave that comes first will
sometimes compress and make water vapor.
Okay,
>> that's what it was. It was a water vapor
ring from the speed of it coming out and
it was illuminated by the stars. Like it
was it l it wasn't light. It wasn't
producing light, but it was reflecting
the star light out. And we look and we
just see this and we're like and it was
and it probably was about 8 9 10 feet
out when we looked over and it got to
about 40 feet and we said, "Oh, let's
let's get out of here." So, we packed up
our stuff and we start walking towards
uh Homestead 1 and the command center
right next to each other. We're going
towards them and all of a sudden the
command center, the lights go
and go off and then go back on. And Tom
came out and he's like, "Hey, I was
looking for you guys. You guys okay?"
And we said, "Yeah, the power just went
out." He's like, "What do you mean? I
was in the ranch house. Power didn't go
out." Like, "No, it went off in the
command center." He said, "That's
impossible. They're on the same breaker.
If one goes off, they both go off. And
we're like, we just saw this. And so, I
don't know what to make of that, but I
kind of take it to mean that the ranch
was like, "Oh, yeah, just a normal
ranch, huh? You know better than this.
You experienced too much already. How
dare you say that? I'll show you."
>> Maybe that's not it. Maybe it's totally
unrelated.
>> Some explosion out there, some weird EMP
bomb or I don't even know.
>> But whatever whatever it was, I mean,
the timing was immediate.
>> Mhm. and it that sound and just that
expansion um and it it I don't think it
was the same thing but you understand in
the Bigalow era that you know they they
documented
uh vertical portals and things coming
through them so I don't know if that's
the same thing but
>> in hindsight would you go towards it
>> I would have now yeah
>> yeah if you told me hey you're about to
see this and go towards it I would have
um but I was too spooked at the time it
it shocked me too much. Um, there's
things like that on
>> I would have probably had the same
reaction like, "Let's get the hell out
of here."
>> In hindsight, you go, "God, should have
walked towards it."
>> Well, same thing. We'll hear voices on
the ranch and usually you walk away from
them.
>> Um, sometimes walk towards them.
>> What kind of voices?
>> Well, my first one, this was this is at
Homestead. This Homestead 3. It's the
far west end of the ranch. And, um, Tom
and Candace, this is my first time
there, and they're taking me on a tour
around. And, uh, there's a Native
American medicine man there with us. and
he was blessing the dog who lives there
who had been attacked the week earlier.
And I'm like, "What did it get attacked
by?" And they're like, "Dog, wolf
thing." I'm like, "What? You going to
give me more than that?" But I was just
getting to know them. I didn't know him
yet. So, I didn't press it. Um, so that
medicine man came to give the dog a
blessing. He was in a cone. And so then
they were showing me
>> the medicine man or the dog?
>> The the medicine man was giving the dog
a blessing. [laughter]
>> The cone was on the dog.
>> The cone was on the dog. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And so they took me out. And so
we're showing homestead one, homestead
two, and homestead three. And uh I was I
don't know like 30 ft away from them and
and and they were showing me some stuff.
And then I I walked away and I was
looking out there and I was just and I
started hearing voices that sounded
Native American. I I know some ute. And
I when I was 18, I was adopted by the
Kick Cherokee tribe. I speak a little
bit of Cherokee. Cherokee is not a Utah
tribe in any way, shape, or form. But I
start hearing these voices and I'm
leaning leaning in and I started
speaking Cherokee at it in just like
it's my default. It's nothing to do with
you language, but I'm like and those
voices were like and they're like it was
almost like they heard me and couldn't
see me and started like oh what is this
and what is these voices? And so I just
like kind of like listening, trying to
strain in and Candace goes, "Ben, Ben,
Ben." And I'm like, "Yeah." Well, and
she's like, "Are you okay?" I'm like,
"Yeah." And I told her what happened.
I'm like, "Why? Why were you so
worried?" And apparently the week
before, somebody had been sitting
standing in that exact same spot and had
been looking the same direction, had
gone catatonic, and collapsed and had to
be taken off the ranch. And so they were
thinking that's what was happening to
me. wasn't. But those were the first
voices I heard on the ranch.
>> Yeah. Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> If I if I if I witnessed you just
starting to speak Cherokee into a dark
void, I would also be [laughter]
concerned.
>> Well, and then like my first night on
the ranch, um this is kind of and again
this is anecdotal story. So, but I mean
this I'm I'm sharing what happened. If
you don't believe me, that is fine. You
have your right not to believe me. So,
um at the time Eric wasn't living on the
ranch. she was coming on and off. And so
I was in the main bedroom in the command
center and I'm like, "This is kind of
weird. You don't have internet working
there on your phone, even though it's
really close to civilization." And I was
like, "Okay." So I'm not really
connected to the outside world. I'm
alone in this house. Everybody else is
in Tom and Candace's house. So I have
the lights on in the bedroom and I'm
like feeling a little creeped out, just
feeling a little vulnerable. So, I'm
leaning over on my side and I'm just
like looking at pictures from the day at
the phone and I got the the blankets
pulled up on me and all of a sudden I
feel something. I look down and the
blankets are getting pulled off. Not
like falling off. These are like really
coarse, crappy material blankets, not
like soft, you know, silky stuff. And
it's like something is pulling them off
and it goes almost all the way off the
bed. And I'm like, "Nope, nope, nope."
So, I grab them and I pull it back up.
I'm like, "I I just got to ignore this.
I can't acknowledge this. And so I'm
still looking at my phone again and it
starts happening again and they pull
almost all the way off and I'm like I
literally don't have the brain length
waiting to get handle this. So I bundled
them in my legs and like and I'm like no
there's 100% on the bed. Nothing's
hanging off the bed. It's in you're
taking me off if you're taking these
blankets off. And I just turned on like
a an audio book and slept with the
lights on cuz I'm like
>> Yeah. Too freaked out. Yeah.
>> That's one of the scariest things ever.
>> Yeah. first. [laughter]
Oh my god.
>> Yeah. So, all the rest of the nights I'm
like, I need to sleep over here with you
guys
>> in the in the in the ranch house. And
that was even worse because they it was
so hot. They had the door open and they
had guns by every door. They Tom and
Candace made that ranch house beautiful.
It was like a beautiful hippie place. It
had like prisms and all the windows and
stuff. When the when it was sunset,
they're like, "It's rainbow o'lock." But
they had guns by every door because
things they're like, "Yeah, something
came in and attacked the dog from the
door." So the screen door's there, the
door's open. I'm sleeping on an air
mattress in there with these guns. And
I'm like
>> pretty vulnerable.
>> I don't like this.
>> Yeah. Wow.
>> Yeah. It's it's it's so weird. It's so
weird because it it's so creepy, but
it's so beautiful. It seems sometimes so
malicious, and sometimes it's just,
"Hey, come and learn come and learn
things." What's your conviction level
like before uh and after? Are are you
like did you go in thinking, "Oh,
there's something here." And you left
thinking, "Oh, there's definitely
something here." Or were you like, "I
don't really know what to expect." And
now you're 100% in. Like where's your
conviction on a percentage level of the
phenomenon being absolutely real that
something is interacting with you? Um,
so going into it, I think I I was maybe
30%, maybe 40%, I thought people think
it's up here and I think they've
inflamed it up. I think it's probably
there's some weirdness going on. It's
probably around here and people have
people like a good story.
>> Yeah. It's a healthy way to think.
>> Yeah. And but now having been on the
ranch 100% 500%. I mean, it's And the
thing that pisses me off scientifically
is it makes zero sense if you said, "Oh,
here's a place where people see Bigfoot
a lot. I don't know if Bigfoot's real or
not. I've seen Bigfoot and I don't know
if Bigfoot's real." Okay, but if you
just said that, or here's a place where
we saw a UFO. Cool. But what does that
have to do with prehistoric animals
coming through portals? What does that
have to do with cattle mutations? What
does it have to do with decomposition
not happening? These things should not
overlap. They're weird enough as they
are. They shouldn't overlap and they do.
And I can verify that for myself. So, if
nobody believes me, that's fine. I know
for myself cuz I've experienced it 100%.
And I've seen some of the greatest
scientists I've ever had a chance to
work with also see this firsthand and
see it like make them scratch their
heads and some of them get attacked, you
know. What's the most important
discovery during your time there
>> that you think even outside of yourself
uh that that was made while you were
there? I h I that's that's a tough one
because is it more about what is prof I
mean I think the fact that we've got
UFOs on camera you know killing a cow
that that's not the most important but I
think that's pretty lowhanging fruit
>> you know it's like UFO killed a cow cow
spirals and goes wackadoodle and then a
direwolf or something bites through its
bone I mean it's just an odd chain of
things um I think there's a lot of
medical physical meta metaphysical
things. Um, the fact that there's there
does genuinely seem to be portals. The
fact that you had lasers stopped. I
mean, that that's maybe the fields of
science that I'm not in version of the
the decomposition thing. It's like
shooting a laser at the sky and having
it stop or having it split or go into
four directions randomly. That's it's a
laser. It goes only one direction unless
you bend it. um that bubble, whatever
that dome, that bubble is, it's real.
We've dropped things down and had things
kind of bounce off of it. We've had
drones, you know, when you have the
border of it, drones that are trying to
do a grid pattern, and I I've filmed it
with my phone. This thing is like boom,
and it's like it ran into a wall and
it's like, and then it has to go back to
home base and recalibrate and then go
through it. Um, rockets. You had rockets
that, you know, once they hit that go,
and we've had rockets when they come
down and they hit that zone and they
stay, oh, I'm going to sit in one place
for 30 seconds on a parachute and then
and then go over. Um, we've dropped uh
GPS things in cans out of the helicopter
and they seem to bounce off it. Uh, I
don't understand what it is, but
whatever it is, it's really important.
Um the triangle seems to be kind of the
center of it.
>> Um whatever that is, whatever that zone
is. And you know, we see things going
underground.
>> But but I mean I and I think on my end,
you know, watching a falcon go through a
portal and come out the other side.
That's that's pretty wild.
>> That's pretty wild. I will I will give
you that.
Um yeah, all of this seems to be really
it's hard to put it into one category
and I think that's probably why you know
like you said it's pretty frustrating
scientifically.
Um, you know, some of this stuff behaves
like, oh, it was radiated. Like if you
look at the plant life, like you said,
like, oh, okay, there does seem to be
some correlation here with radiation,
whether that's some type of beam
striking down, whether it's something in
the earth that is there that is causing,
you know, is radiating uh that area. you
know, that that could also make sense
perhaps of some of the species being a
little different, you know, because if
you're mutating cells at a level where
you you can see, you know, plants be
different, then obviously that might
also be true for whatever's living
there, it might have evolved differently
than other predators in that neighboring
area. When we found it on on the elk on
the ranch on the game cameras, they have
spots that correlate with almost like if
you if you took like a a dental uh uh uh
x-ray
>> and put it right up at their face and
left it on for an hour and then what it
does to the skin and what it does to the
hair. Um spots on them doing that. We've
documented that. But the strange thing
is is a lot of times when you have these
spiked radiation levels come back four
hours later it's back to normal and h no
>> yeah radiation should just be there
>> for another half million years
>> and it doesn't and how so is that an
issue with the instruments was the a
phenomenon like messing with your
instruments to make you think there was
a spike or did you actually have
transient radiating that's impossible
but is that what happened? We don't
know, but the plants definitely do seem
to act like it. And again, some of the
animals we found, you know, with some of
the deer and some of the elk,
>> we've also found
>> or or whatever's causing this has
similar symptoms to being radiated.
Maybe it's some other type of force that
we're not familiar with.
>> Correct.
>> You know, that would I think make some
sense.
>> Yeah. And and again, some of the animals
we see, you know, could they just be
enlarged? we found on the game cameras a
giant raccoon that's got way longer
legs. Everybody thought they're like,
"Is this a bear?" And they thought it
was a black bear. I'm like, "No." And it
has this really stumpy tail. And I
showed everybody the pictures. I'm like,
"Again, during the ice age, we had this
giant raccoon called Chapel Millennia."
And I'm like, okay, is this I'm not
saying it is, but if you had like
radiation, could this be just a regular
raccoon that got radiated and this
somehow changed to more of a cancerous
type growth and and more bulbous back
and longer legs and this super stumpy
tail. Um, but it looked just like, you
know, again, if you see this, if you're
not if you know biology, but you don't
know paleontology, then you don't make
this jump. And it's like, well, okay, we
had giant 300 lb beavers, you know,
castrodites. We had giant raccoons, you
know, chaplania that lived alongside the
regular ones. Yeah, they didn't turn
into this. These are these lived at the
same time. These are gone. We had giant
jaguars and regular jaguars. The big
ones are supposedly gone. Had direwolves
and greywolves. Direwolves are gone, you
know, but they lived side by side.
>> And so, you got to make that connection.
Um, the ecosystems of North America are
not intact. I mean, we should have
mammoths and camels and sloths and all
these things alongside elk and moose and
deer and turkeys and all these things.
>> Pretty compelling. Pretty interesting. I
can't wait to get some actual, you know,
4K imagery of like one of these things
just showing up or or even better yet a
body.
>> Yeah. you know, that would be that would
be the day because I think, you know,
something like that then becomes an
international
>> Mhm.
>> Um uh I mean it becomes big news in in
every regard and not just in the sort of
alien, paranormal, UFO regards, but like
more of so of like, hey, there are
things happening on this earth that are
>> apparently natural, apparently, you
know, tied to some event that is
creating these little pockets. Yeah.
>> Um, here I mean that that itself is is
equally as fascinating as
extraterrestrials to me.
>> It really is. You know, it might not
capture your imagination as much, but I
mean like we whatever this wolf thing
is, you know, we have a good chunk of
the body. We have the jaw. We have the
DNA sequenced and it's been compared by
the most extensive genetics lab on Earth
at the moment by every other K9 on the
planet and all the different dog breeds,
too. And it doesn't match any of them.
And this is tangible evidence. I got it
sitting in my house. You know, the jaws
sitting in
>> my house.
>> Do you a picture of that?
>> Yeah. Yeah. And also, I forgot to
mention this. I Let me make sure I get
you pictures of these, too. This is
another This is This is another weird
thing. See, there's little things like
this that are actually big that these
are big stories, but I forget because
there's it's been years. There's been so
many things. So that jaw I I cleaned it
off and then I let dermested beetles at
home. Uh clean it off further and then I
took it back to the ranch. So I had it
in a in like a little Tupperware, a
little Rubbermaid container, no lid,
just paper towels. You know, it's about
this deep. And uh so I show up at the
ranch and they said, "Hey, come on and
have lunch." And I'm like, "I'm going to
leave this outside." So when you're
walking up the stairs to the trailer,
there's a little table right there. I
set it on that table. People are walking
in and out past it. I was in there
eating lunch for maybe 10 minutes, 12
minutes, and when I came back out, it's
covered all over with lacerations,
deep incisions. Now, some people are
like, "Could it have been a rodent?"
They're not doubled up. They're
individual lacerations, and it's sitting
in the exact position when I set it
down.
>> It's not like somebody picked it up, cut
it, and then put it back in all around
it.
deep, deep, deep incisions. And I asked
around like, "Did anybody touch this?" I
mean, did anybody notice anything? No.
And like 10 to 12 minutes eating lunch,
people walking past it, and somehow it's
covered with lacerations. Like
>> noticeable.
>> No. Oh, yeah. I'll I'll send you
pictures. They
>> You would have noticed that these
weren't.
>> Absolutely. Like you would have to like
you'd have to do this with a Dremel or
to to do these
>> to do these into the raw bone and have
them look like this. You would have had
to have done it when the bone was still
fresh,
>> right? Or else it would have cracked.
>> Yeah. And so somehow these are that way.
And I got pictures of the jaw before and
and after. And it's like, how did this
happen? I have no idea. But deep deep
deep these big old lacerations like
something just all over even on the side
everywhere in all around it.
>> Bizarre just happened in those 10 to 12
minutes.
>> So abstract
>> and Yeah. I What? What's the point of
that? Yeah. Why would something do that?
What does it mean? What is it saying? Is
it saying anything? How could it happen?
I don't know
>> what um so you know the one thing that I
I am sort of leaning towards more of now
and you know you touched on this a
little bit. You said as we're as we're
looking at things and as this pendulum
swings, you know, we get into science
and now we're looking at religion,
spirituality. We get too far into
religion, spirituality, we're looking at
the scientific explanation. And there's
this
>> there's this eb and flow of of uh these
two worlds. U but something which is
more on the spiritual side and something
that perhaps being a a skeptic myself or
skeptical
>> um I've you know now as my pendulum is
swinging back towards this idea of okay
there's there's something perhaps tying
the spiritual world into you know the
scientific world. Um, at the heart of
that are these Native American First
Nations indigenous tribes. These these
tribes that are that have been here for
a very long time that seem to be at the
very root
>> in terms of not only um their sort of uh
but for the most part their lore.
They're, you know, they talk about star
people. They talk about all these things
that we find in so many different
religions and that we're looking at now
in the sky. We're seeing a lot of these
anomalous, you know, UAP activity, but
we're kind of echoing in our own
language what they were saying. And so
>> I think they have so many answers
>> uh for us. Um, being someone who was
adopted by a Cherokee, um,
>> what do you make of that? Do you do you
do you put stock into that as well?
>> I I definitely do. Especially the, um,
tribes in southwestern United States,
northwestern Mexico all the way up to
Navajo and Ute, which is, you know,
Skinwalker Ranch would be the
norththeastern range of that. those
people, their stories, their legends,
there's something to it and there's
something connecting to some of these
paranormal phenomenon and it seems very
legitimate. The more and more I study it
and the more and more I learn about it,
the more I very much very much see
something with it. And you see that with
ancient peoples, you can put it
everywhere like the the in Australia,
the Aborigines, the if you look up the
Wanjina figures, it's like that just
they just look like gray aliens and
people say, "Well, they're water
spirits." It's like you put a gray next
to them and it's like this is literally
the same thing and they're all over and
those are like 10 12,000 year old
paintings. So, um, the tribes here,
absolutely, there's stories. There's a
story with one of the eastern tribes,
one of the, um, eastern hardwood forest
tribes, and they have a a legend of that
there was a child that one of the beings
from the sky world came down, fell in
love with a woman, and they had a child
together, and they said, "Okay, you uh
have to take care of this child, and
don't ever strike the child. If you
strike the child, then Skywoman's going
to take her back and this child's going
to live back with the the father and the
people he came from. And it's this whole
story and they still uh but the grandma
did like scold the child and you know
gave him a whack and so they took him
away. And even if that's legend, a
legend can be based off of something.
And so the people today, they still all
will have these ceremonies where they
cry and and give mourn and sorrow for
this uh sky child that was taken back up
to live with the with this rain spirit
that you know took him up. So you you
might just be making an incorrect
connection, but you're also stupid if
you dismiss it. It's like listen to the
legend and let it percolate. Think about
it. It's like, okay, this is gives me a
greater worldview and maybe we can make
some connections of understanding. Do
you think they're do you think they know
more than they're letting on? Because I
know that a lot of these communities are
very tight-knit as well in that, you
know, they don't just give information
freely to outsiders who are who are
coming in. And that's just what and you
have to even if you wanted to tell a
story, you'd have to get approval from
like the elders or like the chief or
like whatever it is, you'd have to go to
the community and be like, can I tell
this story? Can I give them this
information? So, do you think there's
still a lot that they're
>> kind of keeping secret? I think that in
general, loosely in general, yes, with
all the tribes, but very specifically
southwest tribes and southwest United
States, northwestern Mexico, we in
archaeology, we call it the southwest
northwest region. Those people
absolutely have things that they, you
know, and occasionally you'll get them
to explain a little, allude to it. And
again, they're using terms that,
you know, you know, are are mythological
in the vocabulary, but it's very much
very literal and how they and when when
they'll leak some of it out and tell you
a little bit, it's like, oh, that's
exactly fits in with this or that that
we see in some of these events. And
[clears throat] it lines up. You know,
the the timelines aren't perfect. Uh,
you know, oral histories or oral
histories. They're not going to be
perfect. They're going to change a bit.
And what you end up with is you have
primordial time. So like if I said when
was Jesus born? That's a historical
question. Whether Jesus or not was real,
it's a historical question. If I say
when was Zeus born or when was Horus
born, that's not that's that's
primordial time. That's time before
time. And that's when these legends take
place. They could be, you know, the
future, the past a million years ago, 10
years ago in in the stories. They're
told that way just like when was Zeus
born? It doesn't matter. It's an it's
and that's how these stories are. But
they have truth in them. They have deep
truth in them. And it is true that
there's a lot that is especially in
those southwest northwest tribes. There
is a lot that only occasionally gets
leaked out. And when it does, you're
like, wait.
>> Yeah. And that might be the reason why
Skinwalker Ranch is so interesting
because it is where science and
spirituality intersects. We're talking
about these ancient tribes that there's,
you know, burial grounds there. There's
curses. There's these legend and lore
that's present in this area. And now we
have the world's leading scientists, the
world's government, like the the
biggest, you know, militarized
government in the world
>> turning their attentions to this, you
know,
>> tribal land here that's sacred. And now
we're finally like the pendulum seems to
have met in the middle here at
Skinwalker Ranch.
>> Yeah.
>> And um it's interesting to see what'll
come from that. But I do feel in my gut
that as long as we measure with the
instruments that we're familiar with,
we'll only get undetermined answers.
>> And then that we'll have to start, you
know, adapting the other way and look
inwards and have these other um these
other ways of measuring things. Mhm.
Well, and you have to you it's okay to
be skeptical, right? Um and it's okay to
say, "Show me the evidence," but it's
like if you see some evidence, you it
does you don't have to have a
conclusion, but you at least have to
acknowledge this is some evidence, you
know, like when the the rabbi did the
prayer on the ranch and all of a sudden
all at Homestead to all of the colors
start the the thermal imaging cameras
just changed everything. or when they
brought that tribe out and they did a
drum circle there and all of a sudden
like these orbs were coming into the
mesa on camera. It's like,
>> okay, I don't know what that means, but
you have to at least say this is a thing
that happened. I'm going to put it in my
brain and I'm going to factor it in.
Don't just dismiss it, you know? And we
may not know what it means. And just
because you don't know what it means,
that's okay. You don't have to be like,
"Therefore, it's stupid." No, don't
dismiss it. just log it in there and
keep that as part of the information.
>> Should get people to do like some
Iawaska ceremonies there or something.
>> Feel like you'd probably get some
interesting
>> I think they need to I think they and I
wonder if that may have happened um
>> off camera [laughter] with without me
around. Um I know
>> Eric and I really want to do a lot of
experiments growing mushrooms and also
have people psilocybin and Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'm I' mean I'd be down to
experiment with that as well. I think
that would be like a heck of a place
where you get tuned in to some, you
know, wild frequencies.
>> Yeah, I think it would. I think I think
it should be done. Yeah, it should be
done in a controlled setting, you know,
dose set and setting. Have it be very
safe and have people there to make sure
it's done well and right, but also to
make sure it's not too clinical to be
like, hey, we're open to learning. We
want to learn. We got people here to
make sure it's safe. But I
>> using locals perhaps in their own
methods and you know
>> I think it would be really really wise
and
>> that would be an episode of Skinwalker
I'd love to watch. I'll tell you that
right now.
>> That would be great actually. That would
be incredible.
>> If Brandon if if you're listening and
you ever need uh somebody to help set it
up, I'd be more than happy to to throw
my name in the hat.
>> Um Ben, I'm going to grab uh I'm going
to turn turn this camera on back here.
We got some questions from the audience
that I'd love to ask you.
>> Sounds great.
>> All right. All right. So, if you're a
member here at Area 52, you get access
to a lot of perks. One of the main perks
here that a lot of people seem to like
is the possibility of asking our guests
a question. So, I inform them 24 hours
ahead, uh, usually 24 hours. And, uh,
and they get to ask us some questions
and then I cherrypick from those. And
often, I'll tell you, collectively,
>> their questions are better than mine. I
mean there, you know, bunch of really
interesting, intelligent people coming
together asking questions.
>> It's it's it's the greatest way to ask
the best questions.
>> Um, so I encourage you guys to do that
if you are a part of the membership
already.
All right, here we go.
Interesting question here by Michelle
LP.
>> [sighs]
>> So, this question asks, "Is there video
evidence of active portals at the ranch
that is being suppressed?"
Um, I don't know if it's being
suppressed, but I think suppressed seems
kind of nefarious. Uh, I know there is
footage from the Bigalow era and I
believe we have footage now. I mean,
there's things we have seen with the
bubble um that have shown that. Um, I
believe that things have been documented
currently that might not be in
circulation. Um, but I think suppressed
is
more of a nefarious term that I would
would use, but I think it's there's some
that it's being held
>> classified. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Uh do you think that
because I mean you you have we've
documented you know with LAR and with
different scans we have absolutely
verified you know portals you know
through that triangle area. We've
absolutely had that's been made public.
So I think there's more to it than that.
Uh but and I know the bigo era stuff has
not all come out.
>> Do you think it will eventually or is
that just cuz it's government? I don't
think for 50 years. Probably not. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You're probably right. Okay,
good question, Michelle. We got another
one here
by Perry here. He says, "If you had the
ultimate evidence, uh, biological or
otherwise, to whom would you present
it?"
>> Uh, the greatest number of people
possible. whatever would be the greatest
way to get it out there to the world
>> right here on Area 52. [laughter]
>> Yeah, that's what I want as many people
I don't want to I don't want to guard
the information. I want people I want
other minds thinking about it, people to
be aware, talking, discussing, and all
of us collectively to move forward and
move upward and and get new thinking on
it. Do you think there's any that any of
that scientific evidence is currently
being withheld because of the filming of
the show? Do you think that any of that
should be made public?
>> I think some Yeah, some there's some
things that are just um anecdotally held
back just as like okay well maybe we're
going to put this in later season and
that's I mean that's why I want to be
here is to get some of this out. Um, so
yeah, some of it for very simple and not
not very important reasons are held
back, but I do also think that some of
the big stuff is held back on a on a
more governmental level.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Because we're not all there all
the time. There there's nobody's there
all the time. It's somewhat
compartmentalized. And so depending on
what experiments are happening, what
days, some of the really big stuff
doesn't come out till later. And I've
had people behind the scenes tell me
that some of the stuff maybe doesn't
come out fully at all yet. and some of
the bigger more I don't want to say
scary but more profound things um they
kind of sit on and process like what
what do we do with this information? So
um so some of it again just for basic
filming reasons but some of the things
happen because again this is a year
round thing.
>> Do you think there's like national
security implications?
>> Yeah, absolutely. [clears throat]
Really? Absolutely. Yeah. 100 100% are
100% are you even see some of that on
the show? you'll see snippets that show
that. But yeah, there's absolutely I
mean the the first season Travis had to
break his NDAs to tell the Department of
Defense like, "Hey, uh there might be
getting hacked here by either foreign
entities or foreign governments and I
got to break this NDA and say so there's
absolutely things that are held back."
100% are.
>> Wow. Interesting. I'll be excited to
hopefully find out what that is one day.
Maybe in person. Mhm.
>> All right.
probably something we touched on, but
says, "While working on the ranch, was
there a fundamental biological theory
that you felt was challenged?" And I
mean, this is by Thomas Tom 10. Uh, I
would assume decomposition being, you
know, the big one, but was there a
specific theory that you felt was being
challenged? I think the the big yeah the
biggest one is the tonomy you know the
the the the science of decomposition um
both you know I mean that even goes back
to paleontological times ancient times
um yeah that would be the big thing of
how things decompose and what happens
postmortem you know the cow contorting
into the dinosaur death pose that's also
a taffanomical scientific thing that is
being challenged the way the t you know
way tendons and ligaments attach and the
way they dry out it's a it's a cut and
dry way you can only fit a puzzle in a
certain way. That should not have
happened and it seemed oh the cow
spiral, you know. So that the tonomy of
the ranch absolutely challenged and also
the existence of animals that shouldn't
be there. That's another biological
presence that absolutely challenges my
my understanding of the modern world.
Have you found any
uh clues into the study of the tissue
that might answer some of that some of
those questions?
>> Uh no, it just seems all frozen. Um
>> what do you mean frozen?
>> That any tissue samples we've checked,
it's like it's dead. It's like it's
frozen in time, but then it should be
decomposing. If you have cells that are
no longer moving, they're not, you know,
>> there's no indicators telling you why
it's not decomposing.
>> Yeah. external bacteria as well is not
chomping on it. So the cells themselves
are not and the external bacteria is not
>> and critters aren't either. And there's
nothing
>> there's nothing that tells you why that
is. There's no chemical. There's no
radiation. There's no
>> Nope.
>> There's nothing.
>> There's nothing. There's no presence of
anything.
>> Makes no sense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And again, and a scavenger
shouldn't know. A scavenger should come
along and say, "Here's something I'm
gonna take."
>> Yeah.
>> Why does it What is it sensing it?
>> Yeah. that when we see them on camera,
when we have cameras on them, then
they're like, "Huh?" They kind of like
back away. There's something about it.
There's something that repulses them.
>> Something that they see that we can't
see or feel or sense.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow. It's interesting. It just shows you
how much we don't know.
>> Mhm.
Um
>> Okay. This last question here by
Majestiff 12.
What's the biggest misconception the
public has about what's actually
happening there?
>> Um, I think I think the perception is
you you go there. Well, you know, I
would have said originally that, hey,
all this stuff is happening all the time
and that, you know, there's always UFOs
and all stuff. Um, and I would say no,
it's more staggered. But that's actually
not true because the longer I've been
there and long as these longer these uh
Brandon Fugal era experience have gone
on, it has amped up. It has there's I've
never been to the ranch where something
has not happened.
>> How long do you go for when you go
there?
>> Um, I mean it might be a day, it might
be a week.
>> Oh, and still.
>> Yeah.
>> Even a day.
>> Every every single time I go there,
there's always something. Every day that
I go there, there's something that
happens. there's always something uh
something that we pick up an experiment
that there's always something strange.
Uh it always delivers for me. Um, I know
other PE, but I mean I'm I'm looking
too, you know, I'm coming at this from a
biological and a paleontological
approach, which is different where if
you're I don't know, like if you're
doing security, your job is to protect
the people, make sure people are safe.
And so
things still happen to them, too, you
know, and their phones are still getting
hacked as well. But I there has never
been a time that I've been on the ranch
where I haven't had several things
happen 100% of the time.
>> Wow.
Very interesting indeed. Ben, if people
want to get in touch with you or if they
want to ask you questions or if they
want to look at some of your work, like
what's the best way to do that?
>> So, the the best way is I run several
YouTube channels. Uh the best ones, uh
are um Desert Lore, which I teach all
kinds of ancient history into exploring
and archaeology, stuff like that. And uh
Ben Woodruff Falconry, and that's not
just falconry, it's all kinds of things.
And then at the Hutchings Museum, I run
that YouTube channel. Uh, you can also
find me on Facebook. Um, and I always
say if you can't get a hold of me, just
keep after me till you do. I'm super
busy and uh and scatterbrain, so just
keep after me till you reach me.
>> Well, you've been a pleasure and a joy
and and a really really um you've been
just great at answering these questions
for me and and obviously I think putting
me over the edge, peing my curiosity
about Skinwalker Ranch, just just that
much more were uh maybe the push that I
needed to uh to investigate this for
myself one day.
>> Yeah, we got to get you out there.
>> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you. I
appreciate the offer and I appreciate
you coming here and sharing all this
with us.
>> Absolutely. Thanks for having me out.
>> Thanks.
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Heat. Heat. N.