I don't think I'm going to say all of it
because there's some stuff that is is
really crazy.
If you and I were starting to go do
talks and we start talking about Jesus
and aliens in the same talk, we're going
to go from here to here real fast.
[music] You know, tying this back to Bob
Lazar, there's also a Jesus connection
there.
>> It's crazy. Exactly.
>> Which is wild. you know, the blue
documents. He read that Jesus was some
type of hybrid.
>> And there was a vial in there this thick
[music] on religion the way it was
written cuz he remembered how Bob said
that it was written. It [music] says,
"The Christian God as you know him
doesn't [music] exist."
The police officer was there telling me
that I had to go meet [music] with a
woman because she there's a little girl
there that's her daughter that is not
from here. She gets in the car and she
says to me, "I [music] was taken up in a
ship one time and they introduced me to
a little girl." She said, "Tonight at
11:11, a craft will fly over this house.
It appeared
out of nowhere and flew right over the
house."
I had tears [music] in my eyes. And just
looks at me super calm and says, "I am
likely [music] to be the reincarnation
of the daughter of Mary Magdalene and
Jesus. [music]
I had an experience when I was a kid
back in June 22, 1980. And I remember
the day because it was right after the
release of the Empire Strikes Back. Uh
and the kids and I were all we were
young [music] kids standing in in
Anchorage, Alaska up near Elmenorf Air
Force Base and all of a sudden a large
floating object came floating in over
the downtown Anchorage area. Everybody
in the city could definitely see it. And
the weird thing about it is when it came
[music] in, all of the wires were on the
fencing and the telephone poles and
stuff started vibrating. And we all
turned and looked at it and it was just
sitting over the city and it was the
size of a like a super dome. It was
massive and it had multiple lights in
the middle like two two two domes one on
top split in half and one on the bottom
glowing orange and then colored lights
in the middle and then two jets took off
from Elmenorf Air Force Base and it shot
out over Cook Inlet and vanished [music]
instantly and then the you know the next
day one of the kids couldn't talk to us
because his dad was Air Force security
and he said that we made him see that
and then the parents and him moved
But it made the news that night and I
remember cuz it was a weatherman who
moved to Portland and he definitely was
on the news and they were making fun of
him on the news that night because he
had seen it also and there was hundreds
of phone calls and complaining about it.
>> Congratulations.
>> Thank you.
>> Congratulations as for the Bazar story.
Full circle moment here.
>> Crazy.
>> You were here. You were one of our first
guests. Not not here, but
>> yeah, just in the other set.
>> Yeah.
>> One of our first guests in the podcast
ever.
>> Came back. We did the whole deep dive.
>> That's right.
>> As you were making S4, the Bobar story
>> and you know, that's where we got to
sort of hang out. I got to see your spot
and all this stuff.
>> And uh here you are. It's it's now May.
The movie's out. It's been out. It's
been widely wellreceived.
I mean, you were on Rogan. crushing it.
Everything about this movie is amazing.
And then you go on Rotten Tomatoes and
you've got like the highest rating I've
ever seen on Rotten Tomatoes by
audience. It's insane.
>> It's crazy.
>> How does this feel?
>> It It feels surreal. That's the only way
I could I could say it just feels
surreal. It feels great to be here with
you, by the way, because for me it's
like
>> for me it's been a journey. It's a life
journey for me, right? And so when I
when I was coming here today, I was
like, I got to say something to Chris
because if I have to pull if I have to
look back at this in my life in memory
one day and be like, oh, I did that. You
know, I have to also appreciate there
was a lot of ups and downs, but you were
part of that up in the process. You got
into you came into uh our project in
2023.
I got to meet you in 2023. you reached
out on Instagram and I got to meet you
and you came to the office at the first
time and we were showing you some of the
VR stuff and I remember that and I was
going through a really rough time at
that time. So I remember that very very
like specifically and I look back at
those videos and I'm like wow it it it's
so much stuff happened.
So much stuff happened and I got to say
your friendship is possibly up there
with like so when I say what's the ups
out of all this journey well you're
right up there as a friend and I have to
say that because if there's if there's
one thing that I have to say and my
whole team says and my mom says is thank
you Chris Ramsey. Of course. It's my
pleasure and I wouldn't have it any
other way. Um, I appreciate you and your
team and your mother, Franka, if you're
listening.
>> She's the best.
>> She's the best. She makes the best
pastries I've ever [snorts] had.
>> Um, well, I got to say I got to say
second best cuz my mom makes pastries
and if she's listening to this, she'd be
really angry at that. So, you're going
to get in trouble. Yeah.
>> Um, they should share recipes though.
>> They should. They [laughter] really
should. I'd love to see them baking.
>> Yeah. My my German mother, your Italian
mother. That would be so
>> You don't get better pastries in the
world
>> for real. That's like
>> we gota do that
>> then. Yeah, I I I would think like some
Swiss chocolate tier
>> would be up there with them.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> but yeah, it's it's been an amazing
journey.
>> Uh I've you know, we [snorts] spoke
every day pretty much.
>> Oh yeah.
>> In the last like two three years, right?
We we've been speaking daily.
>> Um I'm aware of a lot of the things that
went on behind the scenes and the delays
of this movie. uh the just all sorts of
interference we'll call it.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know it's such a massive task to
undertake not only making a documentary
but the hoops and things you have to go
through it can really wear you down even
outside of the UFO space. I mean just
making a film and having it go through
these separate corporate entities these
you know you have to file things you
have to submit things it's takes so much
time and that time guess what you're
paying people it's costing money
>> how much are you in do you think like
conservatively in this project out of
your own pocket
>> 2 million [snorts]
>> So $2 million out of your own pocket
>> because you had a you have a business
>> um where you you know did a whole bunch
of stuff before this that had nothing to
do nothing to do with this for a long
time. And I mean, it's been like a for
me it's been an incredible
return to school. Like I went back to
school. It it it like I'm 51. I just
turned 51 3 days ago and I
>> Happy birthday.
>> Thank you. Um I started this in 2021
and did not know what I was going to get
myself into. I thought I was just going
to make a model where I know what I'm
doing. I I would be able to make a model
with my eyes closed and my hands tied
behind my back and I'd still make a
great model, but I didn't know what the
hell I was doing in 3D and graphics and
VFX and film and interviews and camera
equipment and audio. And I watch you put
this together and I'm going like, I
still have a lot to learn. And and
people are saying I'm a filmmaker. I am
not. I am an embryionic
film making. I'm in the embryionic stage
of film making learning. Okay. So, I'm
still learning. I'm still very very
grounded. Uh I know how to make I if I
had to do it again, I would probably be
able to shave off two years, okay, off
the production. So if I had to do that
again, I could I could certainly
accelerate it. Um but I would have to
have the technology that we have now to
make two years happen faster, you know?
>> Yeah. Cuz now with everything that's out
there, I mean, this movies like these
are going to be easier and easier to
make.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> But undeniable. But one thing that you
can't recreate, you know, is the time
spent with Bob.
>> Oh, yeah. I mean, that's priceless,
>> you know, that's um and Bob was here,
you know, and he talked a little bit
about his,
you know, one of the reasons that he
wanted to do this was
the fear that he has, a real fear of not
remembering this stuff.
>> Yeah. It's it's
>> it's an insecurity he has. Um, and
rightfully so because, you know, it's
one of the reasons why he is reluctant
to talk about it because he knows that
if he trips up anywhere on the story,
uh, that people will just focus there. I
I think that fear comes from not because
he can't remember. I think he I don't
even call it fear. I think it's PTSD.
It's if he doesn't remember something,
he knows it's going to be a wave of
attacks
that is just, you know, just because he
didn't remember something. And so I
think it's PTSD. So he worries, you
know, he's like, "Wait, what are we
talking about today?" You know, today
we're talking about the craft. Oh, okay.
The hanger. Oh, okay. You know, like
things like that he remembered. But if I
said, uh, how far do you think the doors
were from the hill by the Papoose
Mountain Range? He's like, "Okay, hold
on." Uh, because he he has to remember
that, you know, if he wants to make that
accurate. So, he was there was times
where he was extremely comfortable and
there was times where he was extremely
uncomfortable because he's like, I don't
know if I remember that. And then I
started testing myself when it came to
that because you know you eventually I
start everybody everybody if if if
there's anything that people do when
they attack the Bob Lazar story is he
didn't remember it. He didn't say it
like this and whatever
>> and I started pretending that I was Bob
Lazar and people would start asking me
questions about my high school.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's like
>> exactly
>> you know it's like what was the color of
your locker?
>> I don't remember.
>> People are are are rightfully skeptical.
Um, but you also have to with the same
stroke
>> be a little bit forgiving for, you know,
uh, memory.
>> Okay, I want to wrap up on Bob here for
a second. If you haven't watched us for
the Bob Bazar story, you're living under
a rock.
>> Go watch it on Amazon or go to we are
not alone.com. This is uh Luigi's brand
new platform where he he'll be bringing
not only behind the scenes, completely
unedited interviews and so many more
things around the documentary that just
came out, but also uh new stories or old
stories that you haven't seen before. Uh
movies from different production
companies, different directors. It's a
brand new venture. I think it's so great
because it's it's kind of like the
Netflix of like UFO stuff is what you're
trying to create. I love the we are not
alone.com. I think it's a wanna it's a
great you know brand. Uh I think it's
really great and you know in this day
and age it's it's getting harder and
harder to sift through all of the
archival stuff. I know there's a guy
online that Eyes on Cinema.
>> He does a really great job of just
uploading everything and everything he
finds, right? And you find him, he's got
a whole bunch of stuff. Uh, but for all
the stuff that you can't find now,
you're gonna find a lot of that over on
Wana. So, definitely want to check it
out. Um, but I want to get past all that
right now because I want to talk about
something that the audience might not be
clued in on. And the fact that you, sir,
were um, an investigator for Muon.
>> I was
>> for a very long time. you were
>> the youngest and we've mentioned this on
the podcast, you know, that probably got
a lot less views back in the day when we
were starting this channel out, but you
were
>> like the youngest Muon member.
>> Yeah. Talk to me about it.
>> That was back in 19 I I I still struggle
to know if it was 1987 or 88. I do think
it was 87 because I remember Golf Breeze
was 87. So, I remember it specifically
because of that cuz it was an active
case when I became a member of Muon. Uh,
at the time I made an I I went to
[clears throat] I went to Platsburg, New
York with my mom, my grandmother, my
sister. We used to go there from
Montreal to go shopping. And it was the
first time I found anything about like
flying saucers, like any uh printed
material on UFOs. I didn't find anything
in Montreal. So, I I I freaked out. I
was like, "Oh my god, there's UFO
stuff." And it was Muon. And it was a,
you know, become a member application.
Of course, it was you have to manually
fill that out. put a stamp, send it out,
and it was in Texas. And then I remember
receiving in the in the mail. I was
looking out for it all the time. Every
time the mail came home, I was like, "Do
I have any mail?" My mom's like, "What
the hell are you doing?"
>> What could you possibly be expecting in
the mail?
>> Exactly. Right. So, I remember
>> How old were you again?
>> Uh 12 or 13, something like that. And I
was I remember the letter. I I still
have it somewhere. And it had a letter
with the card. It's like a little card
that and u at the time I didn't know it
says what's your specialty in my
application. The only thing I could
think of that was ref that would be
pertinent to that was I knew a lot about
astronomy although I was I was a kid I
was reading a lot about astronomy. So I
wrote astronomy on the application. So
the card comes in and it's my name and
it says specialty astronomy and then you
know I'm a member and it was signed by
Walt Andress and they had a letter and
then the letter which Walt Andress was
the director says you are officially the
youngest member of Muon in the world and
I was like it it it intimidated me
because I was like oh no what what did I
get myself into? Now you have a job.
>> Yeah. Like what do I have to do now? Cuz
then I'm like do I really know enough
about astronomy? Yeah, [laughter] of
course not.
>> You know what I mean? So I was like,
what am I going to do? So it made me
hurry up and read more. The the muon
journals and the the they they would
send out stuff in the mail. I I I still
have all the
>> the symposium stuff.
>> Yeah, the symposium stuff. And I I still
have all that stuff. And I was reading I
was and then in those magazines or in
those printed materials you would find
ways to go get other printed materials
like other companies or other material
magazines. So then I started buying that
stuff and whatever money I had I spent
on that stuff when I was a kid. So my
mom would always come in my room in
summer. I was always reading about
astronomy because I thought it was going
to help and UFOs and she thought like
just go outside and play you know like
and I was like I I did I still got to
learn this cuz I was summer I didn't
have homework so I could just spend all
my time on that and I was a complete
geek so that was my life and eventually
got to a point where I became very
familiar with a lot of case I bought a
lot of books in fact you have a lot of
books here that I remember reading that
I can't find anymore. So, I must have
lost them throughout the years. But the
Aztec uh book, the Sakoro stuff, the
obviously Roswell,
>> Billy Myers,
>> Billy, Billy Meyer stuff actually I only
read
>> recently.
>> No. Yeah, I read recently, but the Billy
Meyer stuff I had heard of through Jacqu
Valet. I remember cuz he was de
debunking it. So I remember reading
about Billy Meyer through Jacqu Valet
because I had some Jacqu Valet stuff as
well and they were just there was no
pictures in these books, man. It was a
lot of text and the Gulf Breeze case,
right? And so I was reading a lot. I was
really trying to read as much as I could
because I thought one day they're gonna
call me and my head is one day they're
going to call me and they'll need me and
I need to
>> they're going to call upon my services
as the astronomer
>> because I was completely oblivious to
the fact that all I am is a member.
Yeah.
>> Right. But I made it into like I have a
responsibility
>> of course.
>> You know what I mean? So, and I did that
and then eventually uh I mean years went
by and I went from love I I I've always
loved the topic but I started hating the
topic not because of it but because of
the way people were treating me because
of it. So you have to remember this is
late 80s early 90s and UFOs were super
not cool laughable especially if you
looked into crashes UFOs were like you
have to also consider a lot of people
would say yeah I saw something in the
sky it's different than if you say yeah
the government has a crashed craft and
they have alien bodies and they're
>> even today
>> even today so you know that was insane
to a lot of people and so I started
realizing
I'm not getting popular because of this.
There's a lot of people not wanting to
hang out with me because I I or PE I
remember couple of friends of mine who
did become friends of mine, but they you
know when you would bring you new
friends in your room, you know what I
mean? And you want to show your friends
like, "Ah, check out I got this
baseball, you know, whatever." It was
more like guys coming into my room going
like, "Dude, what's with all the UFO
books?" you know, and like I had I would
go into magazines, cut out like Close
Encounter movie pictures, put them on
the wall, and it's all alien stuff. I
didn't have
>> Mine was like Jennifer Love Hewitt.
[laughter]
>> Well, I had Limp Biscuit.
>> Mine was like a lot of UFO
>> Just like Stanton Friedman. [laughter]
>> I was like completely into that. So,
they thought, "What what the are
you doing?" And you know, and and so for
me, and then I had a telescope, so I
tried to make the telescope cool and be
like, I'll show you guys what this does
at night. You know, I would show them
Jupiter or something. And they were
like, oh yeah, okay, that's cool. But
that's it. It wouldn't go beyond it.
Even astronomy or space or the, you
know, was not cool. Yeah. So, I had to
kind of choose who to say this to. And
it became more and more of a social
problem. And I eventually had to start
hiding. I was like a closet UFO lover
cuz I was like, I couldn't tell people
because it was always causing me
problems. So, I decided and I tell you
this all the time. I'm like, it's so
surreal that I live in a world now where
we become friends because of the topic
and we're not hated or not judged. Well,
we are still judged, but from different
people or different reasons, but it's
accepted.
>> Yeah. There's a whole pocket of people
that are incredibly accepting of this
stuff. And the people that aren't
>> are so busy doing other things now that
they don't waste time being like, "That
stuff ain't real." They're just kind of
like, "Well, I like this. You like
that."
>> Exactly.
>> Okay. So be it.
>> And you're not I'm not getting the the
long, you know, analyzing me if I'm
normal look from people anymore,
>> which is a big deal.
>> Yeah. Like when was your head injury?
>> Well, most people would always,
especially, you know, obviously if I
talk about family, friends, or people
that were closer, they would always
worry, you know, like, oh, they would be
like, so how are you? You know, how's
everything? You're still looking into
that stuff. So it it was never like, oh,
it's interesting. It's more like are you
out of it, you know? Are you okay now?
Yeah. Are you okay? You better, you
know. Yeah. So, I remember when I It's
hilarious cuz I remember when I started
stepping away publicly from it. And I
say that because again, I'm going to go
back real fast. When I first started
with Muon, there was a a Muan Quebec
group here. It was a Muon group in
Montreal. And I would go to it and I
would, you know, want to find out what
people are talking about. 99% of the
people that were there were all
white-haired people. Okay. There was
very few young people involved.
>> Still now.
>> Yeah. Still now. Absolutely. I mean,
there's uh You're right. Yeah. It's it's
still
>> I don't think it's gotten any younger,
but it's definitely seems that way if
you listen to videos and watch, you
know, but it's still majority and you
know, old white guy thing is
>> it really was and still is. And so I
remember that one of the first things I
have ever did that was like an in I call
it my investigation because I was proud
at that time is I wrote a letter to Ed
Walters, the guy who took pictures at of
at of G Breeze. Yeah. The guy who who
had all those experiences in G Breeze,
Florida. And I never thought that he was
going to write me back, but I thought,
let me try. And I had read his book and
I had read all the the information, the
Muon uh journal, all all that. and he
wrote me back and he sent me a videotape
of him talking to me, a video of the
actual craft in the air. And I got all
excited because I'm like, "Oh my god."
Again, excited and intimidated cuz I'm
like, "What if I have to present
something now?" I always thought
[laughter] that this was going to be
like, "Am I ready for this type of
thing?"
>> Yeah. Imposter syndrome.
>> Yeah. So, I ended up going to this Muon
organ uh thing one night. It was in
Verdon if I if I remember in in
Montreal. And uh for anybody who knows,
Verdon is like still Verdon. It's like
in the middle of nowhere. And I went out
there. My dad drove me there. He walks
in because he's not like what what are
you doing? You know, like I had all this
I had the book. I had all these papers
with me and I was presenting
>> on stage.
>> How old are you?
>> 13. You know what I mean? So I was super
nervous and I'm like, you know, my dad
was there just to for me to know that
there was somebody there in case I just
panicked I could just go go away. So I
presented something on Golf Breeze and I
remember people impressed with the fact
that I was so young doing that and it it
gave me a boost that oh this is this is
like I'm not being laughed at there. I
wasn't being laughed at right so that
was a big deal but as soon as I left
that I was being laughed at in any every
other circle. So
>> I decided to kind of step away publicly.
I always kept very close to the topic. I
would read about it, but not in front of
girls or girlfriends or friends anymore
because I I took down all the weird
pictures in my room and I started
putting up like I had fighter jets and
stuff like make it it was still related
to the military but it was cool, you
know.
>> And then from that I started uh you know
really diving deeper
and I didn't get I wasn't investigating
anything. I was just researching or
reading about it updating myself. had to
started having, you know, a normal life
and, you know, got into college and got
work and all that and uh then eventually
started wanting to get really back into
it. Suddenly it just was like, okay, it
was still not cool, but I wanted to get
back into it. Like when I say get back
into it is I'm going to be talking about
this. I'm going to tell people I can't
tonight because I have to go to do that
or I'm doing this and
>> and the stigma everything came back like
everything was just again I was like gez
you know like it's it's not evolving
there's nothing good happening about
this
>> during the '9s too
>> it was bad
>> it was anytime you heard of an
experiencer or a sighting it was widely
mocked in streamlined legacy media Yeah.
Via talk shows. Absolutely. You know,
where whether it's Oprah or Ricky Lake
or Mory Povich or Jenny Jones or, you
know, you name it. [snorts]
>> You would always have these stories and
it would be considered so fringe and out
there almost like a freak show.
>> Yeah.
>> Is how people were treated. And they
were also called that. you know, it it
was really uh you know, it's like one of
these shows where they bring on, you
know, the goth children and then the
parents who, you know, and like, oh, my
daughter's into Satanism and that type
of stuff. Like, that's how it
[clears throat] was all treated.
>> So, and then in the newspaper, it wasn't
mentioned at all. It was only mentioned
in these sort of spoofy
>> news, you know, media tabloid things.
And let's not forget there were a lot of
fake UFO sightings or fake cases which
added fuel to that fire. So
>> it was a lot easier back then I think to
muddy the waters
>> and and the National Inquirer which was
like the number one you know publication
that you would see in in some in some
grocery stores for had pictures of
Hillary Clinton holding an alien baby.
>> Yeah. Or bat boy. So that just killed
all credibility of anything that had to
do with the topic. So I was always uh
like I was always facing that and it
became really annoying. But I I stuck
with it regardless. And I glad I did
regardless of all the the hate or the
the judgments and all that and
eventually got into the investigative
parts of Muon.
>> So talk to me about that. How does one
become an investigator at that time? So,
what's that like? Oh, didn't see you
there. I was shaving. You want to know
what's insane?
Buying razor blades. Follow me on this.
You walk into the pharmacy, and suddenly
you're spending $40 because your razor
cartridges are apparently handcrafted by
NASA engineers. Meanwhile, the blade
dulls immediately, clogs halfway through
your shave, and your neck looks like you
tried shaving with a cheese grater.
That's why I switched to Harry's Plus.
First thing I noticed, this handle,
solid metal, weighted, actually feels
good in your hand. It's not cheap
plastic, and the shave is just as
smooth. The pivot follows your face
naturally, and the blades are refined
and honed at three different angles, so
you don't get that awful tugging
feeling. The spacing between helps
prevent clogging, which honestly used to
drive me insane. And now there's aloe
and vitamin E in the strip, so your skin
feels good after, which is important.
You spend half your life in close-ups
talking about UFOs. I could probably use
a shave right about now, honestly. And
maybe you could, too. You can get the
Harry's Plus trial set for just $10 at
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You get the razor, a fiveblade
cartridge, shave gel, and a travel
cover. If you don't love it, Harry's
will make it right. Again,
harrys.com/eraf52
for the $10 trial set. Let them know we
sent you.
>> And it's important. I I highlight this
because if you think about, you know,
when you hear an investigator, right,
you you assume, oh, if somebody has the
title of investigator, that means they
they have a lot of experience and they
that that wasn't really the case at the
very beginning or even now when it comes
to some of the muon investigators
because it's it's just like a month or
two of learning a it's like a they call
it a a field guide or something like
that. So you have to you have to buy it
or you you would buy it at the time with
with Mopan to read through it, learn.
It's really interesting information by
the way. It's very good. It teaches you
how to not, you know, the
misidentifications of Venus or or or
constellations or stars or the moon and
looking at, you know, air aircraft
landing lights, the horizon, how to
measure height and altitude of things
and really interesting stuff. and
clearly how to go about an investigation
if somebody sees something, what not to
ask them, how to ask them certain
questions, to not lead them on, excuse
[clears throat] me. So, I learned a lot.
I did that and I and I did an exam and
you have to have I if I remember
correctly, you have to have like 80% or
more in order for you to pass to become
a field investigator. So I passed. I I I
had done the work and I a lot of the
stuff I had already kind of figured out
prior. So I became an official field
investigator. I remember when that
happened to me how
I found that to be easy
and I remember that kind of bothered me
>> disappointing you.
>> Yeah. because I was like I don't feel
like I have invest I I'm not a field
invest like I I I was already a field
investigator but I never investigated
anything in the field so I found that to
be a little easy
>> like the bar was too low.
>> Yeah. And that kind of threw me off a
little bit but regardless I I still did
what I had to do. So I did start working
in some and and you know when you become
a field investigation investigator for
muon in my case muon Canada because I'm
we're in Canada you're essentially
either uh going to be sent cases from
the head office where they receive
somebody calls in they there's a case it
happens to be in your territory you're
available they've already vetted it they
send it to you there's a system call
CMS. In that CMS system, there's all the
information on that. The person who
called said, "This happened to me." All
right, you have to do a follow-up. You
have to call that person and and do all
that. So, I did that and it was it was
organized. It's well done. Uh and
basically started getting my feet wet in
investigations, right? And it's it's
well organized yet very um lax because
everybody does this on their own time.
Nobody is paid to do all
>> it's all um uh how do you say that? Uh
how do you say that in in English? It's
it's it's
>> um
>> that word.
>> Yeah. Why are we forgetting this word?
>> Why are we forgetting? So it's a really
weird thing. It's when you just give
your time.
>> [laughter]
>> What's that word?
>> Hold on. I'm blanking.
>> I'm blanking completely. It it people do
this at the hospital. They they they
[laughter]
>> Everybody's going, "That's the word."
And we're forgetting that word.
>> Hold on.
>> Yeah. It's like when you're you're
>> blanking here.
>> What the hell? It's like when you you
are a uh you're offering your services
for free or you're you're
>> volunteering. volunteering.
>> Okay, so let's start let's start that
over again. [laughter]
>> Roll it back. Okay, so there's nobody
getting paid for this, right? It's
volunteer work, right? So basically
[laughter] as as a as as a volunteer, if
you're really interested, you put a lot
of hours, but there's people that are
volunteers that have families or
whatever. So they're not always on on
time. So it sometimes made it kind of a
fragmented process in investigating a
case if you're not in charge of the
investigation. Mhm. So it kind of made
me want to make myself more pertinent to
the organization and I started becoming
a little bit more aware of how it was
being managed and how how things were
being done so that maybe I could
contribute a little bit of my experience
in life and making it better and not
just investigating UFOs but also the the
the logistical process and how we should
go about it. Now again I'm I'm I'm
speaking on some of my experiences.
There are th hundreds if not thousands
of muon organizations across the whole
world now. It's become much bigger than
it was when I when I joined and there's
you know regional offices and they have
all their investigators and some of them
are incredible. I mean, some of them are
doing unbelievable work, but then
there's also the new investigators that
come in like I was at a certain point
and you have to also train them.
Although they passed, it doesn't mean
that they pass the logic test of when
there's something going on. So, a lot of
a lot of muon investigations
turned out to be very conventional,
nonextraterrestrial.
>> What percentage? I would say 90% more if
not more. So there's a lot of that
>> and I get that from just receiving I'm
sure you do as well.
>> Um you know videos and photos and cases.
>> Yeah.
>> I get sent things where
to like 95 to all the way up to 99%.
>> I have an explanation. And this isn't me
simply
>> uh brushing something off. I'm not
dismissing anything based on just a bias
or anything. I'm literally going, "Oh,
that's Starlink."
>> Yeah.
>> Or that is Venus. Or that seems to be
some, you know, this when did this
happen? Oh, July 4th.
>> Okay. It probably some Chinese lanterns
or like there's all these different, you
know, drones now are a big problem for
this as well as, you know, satellites,
re-entering of uh rockets and
>> and whatnot. But I think for me, the
most difficult part in all of that is
breaking that news to people because
they don't want to hear it. And I
understand that they don't because that
was a canon event that changed how they
feel fundamentally about something. It
might have sparked their interest in
UFOs and now they consider themselves to
have had an experience. That's right.
>> And if I go, well, that experience was a
re-entry of a 2013 rocket from China.
They go, "No, it wasn't." Yeah.
>> Cuz that's not real to me. You know,
>> and so I would have a hard time with
that. How did you deal with that? That
was exactly what I Well, first of all, I
was personally trying to avoid that as
an investigator. So, first and foremost,
there's there's Okay. Well, there's two
layers to it. First is as an
investigator, if if the CMS system is
sending me a case, obviously, they've
already vetted part of it. It got to me,
I'm reaching out to the to the witness.
The witness believes they saw something.
If 99 or like you say, you're right.
It's between 95 and 99% of the time I
could explain it away with something
conventional.
If I do that, I'm kind of like making
them feel like they're they're they're
illegitimate.
>> illegitimate. That kind of sucks for
them, but it's the reality. So, I can't
not do that. That was for a long time
what was happening to me where I did I
did by the way get cases that were not
illegitimate but most of the time they
were. But what happened after that is I
became the national director for
investigations of muon in Canada. So I
was I was running all investigations.
Now what that means is I'm not running
investigations where I'm dealing with
the witnesses. I am managing the
investigators who are investigating the
witnesses and the accounts. The
investigators
sometimes want to have a case.
So, you're not only dealing with having
to tell the witness that was just Venus,
but now you're also dealing with an
investigator who just passed the field
guide exam and you're telling them, "No,
that was just Venus." No, what do you
mean? you know, it's they saw something
and it's like, no, they didn't. And so,
you're getting into that. And that's
where I I thought, wow, we really need
uh a lot more uh training. And it and
keep in mind, it is much better now
because information is easier to to get
now. And but I'm I'm talking a few years
back
>> and it's still volunteer work. So,
there's so much you can ask people to go
through. So, I kind of was the party
pooper in a lot of cases where a lot of
times I'd be like, "No, that's just
that." Or or or
let's face it, to all the people who've
seen a light in the sky and they believe
that it was not terrestrial,
do you have a picture of it? No. Do you
have a video of it? No. But it moved
really radically. Yeah. Okay.
>> Or they have a video of it and they say
it moved really radically right before
the video or right after the video.
Exactly. A lot of that.
>> A lot of that.
>> Yeah. Which again could be
>> could be.
>> It's not what we're looking at.
>> But what happens with that is if you're
hearing about it, you know, like that
like now it's cool. But as a as a
director, I was read I was receiving
like 30 a day. So it gets gets a to a
point where you're just like and and I
have a job by the way while I'm doing
this. So it got to a point where it's
like yeah okay well what can we do with
this? Just mark it as unknown and and
move on. I see.
>> Yeah, but what if we I should maybe go
out on the field to do what? What are
you going to go do? Well, talk to the
witness about what? What are you going
to go do? You're going to go talk to a
witness who's going to tell you they saw
a light in the sky and that's it. Well,
if you want to do that, you can, but
it's it's not going to make that light
in the sky turn into a landing uh
an object with landing gear. It's going
to nothing's going to happen. So, it
gets to a point where it was getting
really repetitive for me and I was
feeling that my experience in all of it
and I I kind of squeezed every ounce of
what I wanted out of all this and I knew
that I could contribute differently to
the field. I didn't and again I am not
dismissing Muon. I am not dismissing all
the field investigators. I think they're
amazing that they even do this.
>> It just there is and I'm sure they feel
that to a certain extent what you're
saying now.
>> It's a reality.
>> But that's part of it.
>> It's part of it.
>> You know, some and and some people can
take that and like the redundancy would
also kill me. I think just to of like,
you know, and and for every thousand
cases that they are explainable, there
might be a couple Yeah.
>> that are just mindblowing.
>> You do it because of those.
>> Exactly.
>> That's exactly why you do it. And I did
got I sorry I did get to work on a
couple of really amazing cases which I
to this day consider to be as valid as
any of the biggest cases that we've ever
heard of, but they're just not popular
because
>> I want I want to get into some of those.
>> Yeah. Well, absolutely.
>> This is where it gets juicy.
>> Oh, there's some juicy ones 100%. So,
you know, between our friendship and the
discussions we've had, you've shared so
many like really interesting cases and
stories with me of, you know, personal
friends who've become or people who've
become friends over the years, uh, and
their encounters
are make for just like the most
compelling story.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Would you would you want to talk about
some of those?
>> I mean, it sure. I mean, it depends on
which ones. There's there's a few
obviously I've I've touched
>> uh cases where it's only light in the
sky.
>> Yeah.
>> All the way to
>> uh a being in my house. So it goes
really there's a big
>> Would you would you be open to talking
about like how you met like Sarah?
>> Yeah.
>> And Emily and like all that stuff
>> that that's crazy stuff.
>> It's so crazy.
>> So there has to be like a like a
disclaimer, right? Please like
[laughter]
>> while you're editing this, it's when
Luigi does this, you know, there's a big
disclaimer. Uh
>> yeah, this this sounds skitso.
>> Yeah. And and that's actually it's it's
really interesting that we're going to
touch this because what got me to take a
step away from muon
investigations, daily UFO
investigations, was monotony and
repetitive stuff that I didn't really
feel was uh I I I wasn't contributing
properly to the field to the field.
After that, I started working on cases
that were worth investigating and cases
and people that had incredible things
happen to them. That also started a
journey for me that got me to meet a lot
of amazing people. I got to work closely
with some of the best. I was uh trained
by David Jacobs for two years personally
on alien abductions and alien
encounters. that David Jacobs is
considered one of the best uh was
considered one of the best in the field.
He's no longer active but definitely was
worked alongside also with Don Dandere
for a little bit of time. I got to meet
a lot of great people and I learned a
lot throughout the years and I tried to
apply my experience all the years of
learning about this about this this
phenomenon which by the way the
phenomenon has it's multi-layered. It's
not one thing, you know, it's many
different things. And that got me to be
uh curious not no longer about the nuts
and bolts, the light in the sky or
object I've seen or whether it's
triangular, circular, oblong, tic tac
shape, whatever the shapes are, it's an
object in the sky. I believe they exist.
I know they exist. I'm not going to use
the word believe. I know they exist. So
there are objects that have been flying
in the in the skies of the earth for
many many years, decades if not
centuries or even millennia, who knows,
that do not perform the same way our
conventional aircrafts perform. They
outmaneuver anything we could possibly
do. So there's no question there is a
nuts andbolts
uh variable in there. I was interested I
got to a point where I was interested in
okay there is a nuts andbolts reality
here. Who's running them?
That's that is the question that you
have to ask if you're not going to
you're not just going to go, "Oh,
they're drones." Well, yeah, if they're
drones, somebody's running the drone.
It's who's flying them? So, that got me
super curious. And I guess I guess
that's that's like the secondary rabbit
hole. There's the first rabbit hole and
then there's the secondary rabbit hole
is when who's who's flying them?
>> That's like, you know, that slide at an
aqua park that you just go super fast
and end up, you know, that's how
>> I remember because when I was 13, I took
my first girlfriend to one of those
parks and her top came off.
>> And that was a that was a canon event in
my life, [laughter] I will say. So I
remember those slides very well.
>> Yeah. So you know what I'm talking
about.
>> It was a big moment for me.
>> Yeah. So those
>> not as big for her. It was a very bad
moment for her. Huge for me.
>> Terrible for her.
>> I can [laughter] imagine. So that was
the second rabbit hole and that thing
was deep and very scary because it it no
longer had and all the this is where I'm
going to get into it. And again it's
like the disclaimer.
I did not expect these things to happen.
What I'm gonna report, what I'm going to
tell you is all I was doing is reporting
the facts that I'm getting or
information that I'm getting. How it
happened, why it happened. I have no
idea. So, it's it's it's one of those
things where you just have to look back
at this and say and and as I was
investigating a lot of these really
crazy cases,
I would consult with David Jacobs, with
Don Dandere, both of which would always
tell me, "Relax,
take it, put it in a in a filing drawer,
close it, don't overthink it, and move
on." And I'd be like, "But hold on. It's
we know do that because if you start
overinking
you're not going to find an answer.
You're going to go crazy because it's
crazy. And you also have to think maybe
there's something else that you need to
know or we need to know that can make
sense of it and it we haven't figured
that out yet. So I always stayed very
grounded and I was trained by some of
the most grounded people in in in the
field.
And that was something that I considered
to be like the most important
uh part of my training was always stay
grounded. Do not
jump to conclusions. Do not make this uh
an unknown. Do not turn it into an
extraterrestrial
or interdimensional
uh investigation.
everything could be explained away
conventionally. So keep that as your
primary directive, which is kind of a
shitty thing when you're trying to
investigate somebody who's expect who's
actually lived something really out of
the ordinary and you're almost forcing
conventional explanation because you
don't want to fall into that rabbit
hole.
>> You want to test them.
>> You want to also test them. And so I
would be uh I was always the one I'm
always still am but the one who would be
like
skeptical open but skeptical. And I and
it pissed a lot of people off by the way
cuz a lot of people who had let's say
they're they're they're friends with
somebody and they're there just to
support them would get angry at me for
not believing.
>> Yeah. or or even raising skepticism a
little bit.
>> Yeah. Which you had to do.
>> I have to.
>> Yeah.
>> Because otherwise everything is is
insane. So I I had an opportunity to uh
meet with a police officer. This is a
big story that I hope is going to get
covered in great detail
uh hopefully through you.
And uh I was actually So here's how this
all started. I was in Montreal. I got
invited to a a talk that Don Dandere was
doing at Concordia University, sorry, at
McGill University in Montreal. And it
was about flying saucers. And I thought
that I want to go see. I want to go see
a a a professor of psychology at the
University of McGill in Montreal talk
about flying saucers at McGill. I want
to be there because this is a big deal.
You're talking to a guy who was getting
made fun of if you just said flying
saucers, you know. So, I went and I went
with a friend of mine and he uh he still
is a federal police officer for the
RCMP. Came with me, I'll never forget.
And he was he was curious as well. So,
we're sitting there and we're watching
Don talk and there was a pause in the in
the in the talk. It was really
interesting. There was a lot of people.
It was full room, full auditorium, and
there's a pause. So, we're all waiting
and I'm just sitting there. We're
waiting and this guy comes up to me and
uh says, "Are you Luigi?" And I was just
like, "Uh,
yeah." I I found it to be so odd cuz
never met him. I don't know how he knew
I was Luigi in this crowd. He kind of
picked came right at me. And so, my
friend is like wondering, you know, the
hell is this all about? and he says,
"Uh, somebody with the Montreal Police
Department would like to talk to you."
That was a weird intro because now my
friend who's a cop looks looking at me
going, "What did you do?" And I'm like,
"I [laughter] don't know what the
is going on." I said, "Okay, dude. What
are you talking about?" So, he says, "I
know this is weird. Here's my phone
number. Whatever. I want I want to talk
to you. We need to talk." So, I
eventually entertained this because if
the if the police wants to talk to me, I
want to know why right away. And it was
an officer from the SPVM, the Montreal
Police Department, who had been the
officer on the call for the um
>> Cavendish Mall,
>> the Caendish Mall sighting in Montreal
in 2010, which was, by the way, a very
big sighting. It was cited by multiple
people in the middle of the night and he
was the officer that was there. So I
said, "Oh, I'm really interested. That's
cool. I'd love to meet him." So we
arranged to meet at this cafe in front
of Concordia University in downtown
Montreal. He showed up dressed in his
uniform. I was there. I was there
[cough]
and [clears throat] he has an envelope
with him and and sits down with me and
he says, "I'm" He was very uh you know,
wanted to make sure I was okay because
he's like, "First of all, who's this
guy?" you know, and and he wants to find
out if I'm I'm a legitimate person to
talk to. So, he explains to me he was
the guy. And uh and then he says, "I
have something else to share." I said,
"Okay." He says, "Well, we have a
witness who um has a picture of one of
these." And I thought, "Oh, picture of a
craft, you know, a picture of
something." I said, "Okay." You know, I
wasn't again I I'd seen so many that I I
was like maybe he's excited about it.
It's one of those little dots on a on a
black picture.
So he said I said, "You have a picture
of a of a of a craft." He goes, "No, we
have a picture of a being."
And I thought, "Okay, no, it's coming
from a cop. It's not coming from
anybody." So I was like, "Okay." and he
said, "Uh, we have multiple pictures and
uh we cannot figure out what it is and
we've it's been in the uh it's been in a
drawer at the police station for 3
years." So, basically, all right, I'm
interested. I I'm What's it about? He
says, "I don't have them here. Uh but I
can share them with you, but you have to
sign something that you're not going to
distribute them. these are not you're
not allowed to distribute these. And I
said, "What does it look like?" And I'll
never forget, he goes, "It's not a dog."
And I'm like, "Okay." [laughter]
You know, cuz I mean, I don't know how
he didn't I don't think he knew how to
express what this thing was.
>> And I said, "Okay." He goes, "Well, it's
not a human being, but it's also not a
dog."
>> And I thought, "Okay." And he goes,
"Strange way to describe it."
>> Yeah. That that's the way he presented
it. So I'm like, "Okay." So, uh, he
finally sends me the and to sign
something. He finally sends me the the
pictures and he said, "When you receive
them, you'll need to call me cuz I'll
need to explain them to you." So, long
story short, I got these pictures, a lot
of them.
Some of them show a Doberman King dog in
the images.
>> Yeah.
>> That's not the dog he That's not Yeah.
the being. There is a Doberman dog in
the in the event, but it's a woman in
Montreal who uh was woken up in the
middle of the night at around 1:15 1:30
a.m. in uh an apartment building on the
14th floor and her dog, the Doberman
King, made a sound. She woke up. There
was a they the her door frame to go into
the hallway had been broken into a week
prior because they had forgotten their
keys in the apartment. So there was a
tiny little gap where you can actually
see from the interior of the apartment
out in the hallway. So she goes out
there, the dog is there and it's
paralyzed it in her living room or in
her hallway. And she thought the dog was
having a stroke cuz she it was
completely immobile with its ears up as
if it's on alert, but it's it's like
paralyzed. So she takes she snaps
pictures of the of the dog, but the dog
is looking at the door. So, she's
thinking maybe there's somebody at
outside in the hallway. It's an
apartment building. So, she peaks in
that little opening and she sees a
shadow moving. So, she thought, "Oh
there's somebody there." And I
guess to her, there shouldn't have been.
So, she grabs her cell phone and aligns
her camera on the on the iPhone. This is
back in 2010, in January in 2010. So,
iPhones were not that good, by the way.
So, you know, for everybody who are
going to eventually see this that this
is not today's cameras, but you see it
clearly. Anyway, she snaps multiple
pictures of what she said was a
a creature that was standing that was
about 3t tall and very very skinny with
a big head and big black eyes. and its
arms were positioned like this, like a
like a praying mantis or like a bird, I
guess,
and it freaked her out obviously. So
those pictures when when I got the
explanation from the cop and I'm looking
at them and I finally see it, it was the
biggest, oh my god moment that I had
ever experienced in all the years that I
have ever worked in this. I thought if
this is real, holy That was a a
really interesting moment. And there's
five consecutive images that are really
solid. And that that was freaking that
that freaked me out. So now fast forward
a little bit of time. I get a call from
uh did I get a call? Yeah. No, in the
CMS.
I'm I'm Muon at the time. I I was
actually still at Muon. No, I just
remembered I was still at Muon. I get a
It was somebody who had experienced an
abduction. No, I wasn't at Muon. They
called me because I knew about
abductions and if somebody had something
happen to them in abductions and they
reached out to me. I get the phone. I
got the phone number to call. There's a
woman who is originally from Great
Britain. She was living in Quebec. Her
name is Sarah and she had been abducted
and she was living in Valdal which is
about 8 hours north of here in the
middle of nowhere. And I thought, what a
weird scenario. Woman from Great Britain
here in Valdal. So,
I I read the case and I said, "Let me
call." I didn't even want to make the
call, but let me call. And I And this
was right around the same time I'd
received these pictures. She said she I
call her boyfriend answers the phone. I
start talking with him. And he says,
"You know, she's very reluctant in
talking about it. She's scared,
whatever." and he said on the call,
"There's one thing though that she
doesn't want to talk about is because
apparently one of these beings the way
its arms was positioned looked like a
praying mantis." [snorts]
And [clears throat] I remember thinking,
"Oh, that's that's interesting." I I
just said that in my head. I didn't say,
"Yeah, yeah, that's, you know," I just
said, "Yeah, that's interesting."
And I said, "Uh, okay. What else can she
say about it?" She said, "Well, uh," he
said, "Well, it was very skinny, big
head, black eyes, and the arms were like
this." And he said, "Let me email you
her drawing."
And so she he emailed me her drawing
while we're on the call. And I get the
drawing. And the drawing was almost the
same thing as what I saw in a picture.
>> Now, I've seen the drawing and the
picture.
>> It's I mean, it's like it's a What the
is going on?
>> Yeah. You go, "Oh,
>> okay.
>> That's the same.
>> It's the same thing."
So that was a huge So at that moment he
said you're probably not going to
believe this. She's saying you're not
going to believe and I said actually I
find this very interesting and I and I I
I I'm interested in more. She
immediately grabbed the phone and said
who is this man on the phone who
believes me? I said hi. She says I'm I'm
Sarah. I'm the one who's, you know, ex
been going through all this stuff. And
why did you say that? I said, well, I
said, because I don't think that it's
that crazy. I said, it's possible.
Uh, so she, I guess, thought I was worth
talking to because I wasn't immediately
discrediting the possibility that this
is a thing. Long story short, I got to
meet her. Um, I got to meet her about a
month later. We communicated and I said,
"Look, I'm oftent times in the
Laurentians north of Montreal because
I'm investigating another case." And she
because she was uh in Valdor, I was
trying to see if we could meet I I'm not
going to say halfway. She had still they
still had a long road, but I wanted to
try to get them to come a little less
all the way. I didn't want them to come
all the way to Montreal. It's a long
drive. So, she came with her boyfriend.
It was in September. I don't remember
exactly the date, but it was I think I
believe it was early September and
August. I was there with a bunch of
friends at that I'm I'm really
abbreviating the story, but at that on
that day, I was with uh Benoame, who was
a a a case I was stud I was
investigating in northern Quebec of
black triangular crafts. he had take a
picture and was in the front page of the
newspaper. He it was at his house. There
was uh the cop who who had introduced me
to this these pictures. There was other
friends of mine that were there who
wanted to kind of expand on this on this
woman who had seen a creature that
seemed like what was in that picture.
The reason why the cop was interested is
because I called him to say there's a
woman who's basically claimed showed me
a drawing that matches. So he said, "Oh,
I'm just curious to see if this is all
hearsay." He actually came to to see if
it could just all be debunked really
quickly. Don Donary also came. Now this
woman, this is where it gets really
crazy. This is where the story goes. Oh
my god. The are you talking about?
So everybody's got to get ready.
Disclaimer, disclaimer. Okay, this
happened. So she's explaining her story
at the table. We're all there and she
says a lot of things.
I don't think I'm going to say all of it
because there's some stuff that is is
really crazy. Some stuff.
>> I mean, I'm I'm open to crazy. You did
the disclaimer hands.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The disclaimer is out. It's
out.
>> You gave us the disclaimer. The Luigi
disclaimer hands.
>> Disclaimer. So people I don't you know
I'm just relaying
>> cuz this might be this crazy the crazy
details I think are what some people out
there will go whoa and they're going to
make connections that we've never made
before.
>> That that's where I think could be. So
again the disclaimers out. I'm just
relaying information but it it gets
really serious after a while.
She she shows us all these drawings
she's made and she says, "I've been
abducted since I was a little girl. I
lived in uh England all my life." She
said they would come in my room all the
time when I was a little girl. They were
tall uh she called them tall white
people. They were all dressed in white,
very very tall. She says they were
almost tall to the ceiling of the of the
room and they were humanl looking but
extremely tall and they were always in
the room. They were always there when
she was a little girl. So she she
thought that was normal because that
would happen to her all the time.
She thought everybody has these tall
people in their house. It's like a
normal thing. Obviously if that's all
you're seeing maybe it's normal.
But at night, she would have these
little beings, these guys, like these
little grays. She drew them, that would
come and hurt her in her tummy. she said
to the point where she asked her mother
as a little girl if her mother could sew
buttons on the bottom of her shirt and
make holes on the top of her pants so
that she could button the sweater to her
pants so that these beings couldn't
access her tummy. That's the little
girl's thinking of how to protect
herself from them touching her there.
And she says they would always hurt my
stomach. like I was always getting pain
in my tummy, which was the first time
I'd ever heard of that, which I found
interesting that she she brought that up
like that. And she says, "My mom
[snorts] did that for me because she
felt it made me sleep better cuz I would
fall asleep knowing that I was
protected, whatever." Which is kind of a
normal thing if a kid is scared of
something.
>> And but they would always be there. And
she said they came back many, many
times. I don't know why. There was never
an explanation. They would just appear
in her room. She wouldn't remember what
was going on, but she would remember
being in pain in her stomach. And this
went on for years.
Eventually, she moved away from Great
Britain. She had well, actually, she
didn't move away. She was traveling a
lot. She went to Cambodia. She went to
Germany. She went to uh she went to
Israel. She traveled quite a bit. And uh
so again, disclaimer,
you should have like an Area 52 red
light appear on this moment. So she went
to Israel and walked all the way near
the Palestinian border. This is going
back like 200, [clears throat]
>> I don't know, 2010, 2011,
you know, and said that uh she wanted to
cross over into Palestine. It was
closed. there was all these soldiers
there and all that stuff. And she said
there was a man who showed up
and this man said to her, she said he
was kind of a a younger guy who walked
up to her. It's as if she said, "It's as
if no one saw him."
And said to her, "Her beauty is like a
palm tree in the desert on a starry
night." Something like that, but it was
like more poetic than that. And he
finished it finished it by saying,
"Sarah Tamar, daughter of mine."
And she found that to be very, very
bizarre. She turned around to see if
anybody was watching this and he was
gone and found that to be
really weird because Sarah Tamar,
daughter of mine. She said he said it
like I was his daughter.
>> That was her name.
>> Sarah's no Tamar is not her name. Like
Sarah, yes, is her name, but Tamar, she
didn't know what the hell that was. So,
I found that to be very interesting
because she she found it to be very
interesting. So, she's explaining all
this to us and we're all listening to
this story.
She's explaining that she had been
abducted or or had seen these beings,
not abducted, but has seen these beings
all her life and then this happened to
her when she was a a little older.
She then proceeds to say to all of us, I
will now start telling you things that
will for sure make you think that I am
not worthy of your belief or worthy of
of your trust. You will no longer
believe me. And she said, "There is some
link to religion
and these beings, something to do with
Jesus and these beings." Clearly, I had
heard that in the past. It wasn't new to
me. To everybody else, it was very new
and a very awkward moment because I
could sense the room froze up and it
kind of went from interest interested to
give me a break. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. Like we understand what type of
person you are now.
>> Exactly. And I I [clears throat]
understood
I I thought I understood where this was
headed and I was kind of
disappointed myself. And I'm being very
transparent here. As soon as people tell
me stuff like that, whether it's
possible or not, I tend to not go in
that direction because I'm like,
it's just it's it's too ideological.
It's too weird.
>> It's dogmatic. I don't want to touch it.
So, she she had warned us and then said
that and I thought, "Okay." And she
looked at us and I'll never forget it.
She said, "It's okay. I will make you
believe it." No, no, sorry. She says,
"No, you will believe me if I do one
thing." And we said, "Okay, what?" She
says, "Tonight at 11:11, I know this is
very t like it's cheesy to say that for
some people. It's like, oh my god, 111."
She said that. She said, "Tonight at
11:11,
a craft will fly over this house." Now,
when she said that, I knew it was over.
I was like, "That's it. She's she's
she's insane." You know, everybody's
obviously whatever. So, that kind of
changed the whole vibe that day cuz
everybody just kind of went like
whatever. Okay. And and I'll I I'll
admit me too. I I was just like, "Oh
this is gonna be awkward tonight because
we were we were approach it was I think
it was like 700 p.m. when she said it
and we were going to about to all eat. I
I remember Beno was going to make a
barbecue and then we were going to just
hang out and you have this elephant in
the room
>> and now you have this Yeah. You have
this moment where it's like ah god like
now we have to keep talking.
>> Yeah. Yeah, Luigi invited us here
because,
>> you know, it's like
>> and now we got this like religious
person like
>> it was getting weird and
>> really weird and and I and I for anybody
listening, believe me, I I was as
weirded out as everybody and I was like,
"This is not going to go in the right
direction."
>> Regardless,
that night we finished eating. We're
out. We're outside it in St. Adolf. It's
beautiful. It's It's actually not too
far from the It's in the Laurentian
where the mountains are. It's it's
beautiful area. So, we're outside. The
sky is beautiful. It's clear, starry
night. And we're all talking and there
was this girl Jenny there. Jenny's a
friend of ours. Uh Jenny is is also a
dancer for Silk D. She's an incredible
artist and she she just came along to
spend the day. And so, she was just not
a neither a believer or disbeliever. She
was just like, I can't wait for 11-11.
So, she was the one who was keeping that
going. Sarah wasn't even paying
attention to it. I certainly was because
I'm like, I gotta I gotta kind of pop
the bubble.
>> That exactly.
And my friend Lisa was there. You've met
Lisa. Uh there's a whole story about
Lisa. Uh and uh
so while we were waiting, it was it must
have been like 10:50 p.m. like 10 10 to
11 in the at night.
Sarah says she looks at Lisa
and I know this is going to sound really
corny to a lot of people but this is
again a disclaimer. This is I'm just
reporting. She's looks at Lisa and says
she's O negative blood type, isn't she?
And Lisa doesn't speak English. So Lisa
looks and goes, "What did she say?" I
said, "You're you're I didn't I didn't
tell her you're O negative." I said, "Do
you know what your blood type is?" And
she goes, "Yeah, I'm O negative." and
she said it in French and I thought,
"Okay." So, [laughter] I basically I
said I told Lisa, "Did you tell her that
earlier?" She's like, "No, what a weird
question." Like, she was like, "Why are
you asking me about my blood type?" So,
I said to Sarah, I said, "Yeah, yeah,
she she's a she's she's a O negative."
She goes, "I I knew that." And then she
pointed out, who did she point to? It
was another person that was there. I
can't remember. And she said, "He's O
negative as well." And that person knew
English and said, "Yeah, I am." And it
was just like, "All right." And I said,
"Who else is O negative here?" And
nobody was.
And I I thought that was weird. You got
to admit that's
>> Yeah. It's an interesting parlor trick.
>> Just a as a magician as a magician,
right? Like I'm like that's not
something we were thinking of.
>> No, definitely. That's a very personal
piece of information, too.
>> Yeah. And she, you know, it was like two
for two. And then there's a So then it
we're we're outside, we're talking and
Jenny screams, "Guys, it's 1110."
So obviously it I got a little nervous
cuz I'm like, "H, [sighs] this is going
to be so awkward."
And she was Sarah was there. Her
boyfriend was there. She It was It was
getting cool. The air was getting
colder. So, she came close to me and
linked my arm and got really close to me
and I it was actually uh awkward because
her boyfriend is there and I'm I mean
there's no Why did she just do that,
right? But he didn't mind. But I I it
was just like not something not socially
normal cuz she came very like she was
really cuddling with me. You don't
usually do that, you know? [snorts] So I
I'm I got her there and I'm looking and
Jenny goes, "It's 11:11." So she she
screams cuz she was looking at the time.
So we all look up obviously and and I'm
thinking, "Wow, not only is this going
to be awkward, but she's next to me and
she's being all cuddly. So how am I
going to break this to her?"
>> Yeah. Be like, "Ah, you know, like you
were wrong.
>> Wrong time zone."
And may may God strike me dead. May the
aliens strike me dead. Where may the
universe strike me dead. I am telling
you the truth here. And we were nine
people that night. We were all looking
up and a craft appeared out of nowhere.
I swear to you it did. It was a black
craft that ca was like perfectly in our
line of sight. It came into existence.
It didn't come from the horizon. It
appeared
out of nowhere and flew right over the
house.
I swear to you. And I remember I I mean
I've done this for many years. I was
completely
like no words.
>> What kind of craft was this?
>> It was black. It was a it some some of
us said looked like a triangle. I didn't
see as a perfect triangle, but it was it
it wasn't it wasn't round.
>> It did not have um like it it wasn't it
wasn't uh um what do you call that? Not
a like a long
wasn't a cigar shape. It wasn't a a a
disc shape. It looked like an like a in
between a black triangular craft and
something that had I would almost call
it like like uh energetic
features on its sides. So, I couldn't
tell if it was its body or if it had
something on its sides, but it had like
a point to it and it just went and it
had some orange light on it and it went
right over us. And I I'll never forget
Jenny who was all excited but also in
shock went like, "Oh my god." Like she
was just like, "That just happened." The
cop who was there literally in French
Canadian, so for the French people that
are listening, went tab, knack, man,
like he freaked out. He goes, "What the
was that?" Like it happened. And
Sarah,
she's right next to me and just looks at
me super calm and says, "Aren't they
funny? They got a sense of humor."
And and and so now to me it's like am I
losing my mind or did this just happen?
And if this just happened, what is she
talking about that they have a sense of
humor?
What the hell is going on? So that was a
big deal for me because I experienced
it. Now we were nine people who
experienced it. If it was just me and
her, I would have a lot of trouble cuz I
would say maybe she drugged me. But we
were nine people. And to this day, if
you rounded up all of us here at the on
the skiff and all of us would tell, they
would all tell you the exact same story.
So we were nine people. I mean, we
saw it, right? So that was a
reality that happened. It wasn't
something that was told to me. It wasn't
something that I had to listen to as an
investigator or through an investig. I
saw it.
>> She predicted it.
>> She predicted it at the exact moment. I
mean, that's a if it was absolute pure
luck.
>> No, I I'm ruling that out right now.
>> But, but I'm saying this because there's
going to be some skeptics out there, you
know, and I'll say, "Okay,
>> well, it doesn't explain for it
appearing out of nowhere."
>> No.
>> Um,
okay. Now, that's incredible. That's an
incredible blew my mind. That's an
incredible story.
>> Yeah.
>> But that's only the beginning.
>> That was only the beginning. [laughter]
>> Strap in. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is where
>> disclaimers. Disclaimers. This is where
it goes from red alert to fullon red
bombs exploding to alert you. Okay. So,
obviously I was like, "What the hell is
this?" this and and she I'll never
forget when we all said bye to each
other. She hugged me and she says, "You
still don't believe me, do you?" I said,
"No, I'm not." She goes, "It's okay. I
understand that." And and and she was
cool with it. She was very confident, by
the way. She gets in the car, we leave,
we all leave. And and all all of us kind
of talked about it for the few days that
followed be like, "What the hell was
that?" that like I mean that it it I I
saw it. I saw it. I saw it with my own
eyes. There's just no way that was a
normal thing. I saw something that I
cannot explain. I investigated UFOs for
years. I don't know what that was. I
can't describe it to you. I don't know
what aircraft that was. It was a a a
solid object that flew over us. And it
did exactly what she said it was going
to do at 11-11. Now,
she calls me uh to say that she was
moving back to England, that her and her
boyfriend had not worked out, mostly
because she had to go back to England
and he was not going to move there. So,
it wasn't like a bad breakup, but it was
kind of like she's moving back to
England. And I said, "Well, hey, that's
a that's interesting." I go, "Are you
going to be flying out from the Montreal
airport?" Cuz she has to the only way to
go back to England. She goes, "Yeah." I
said, "Well, why don't you come to my
place for a for a day and I'll show you
around Montreal? We'll we'll have a get
together with some of the people that
you had met." She's like, "That would be
nice."
[clears throat] So, I did. So, we did.
So, she comes to Montreal and instead of
staying one day, she decided to stay two
days because of the I remember she took
uh I believe it was a bus that brought
her to Montreal. So, I I got her at the
Greyhound station and the timing of the
bus to the timing of her flight. I said,
"Why don't you just come the day
before?" Well, I have a guest room. Stay
in the guest room, whatever. That's what
she did. The day she arrived, she's in
my house and she's a very interesting
person. She sits there and she's in the
kitchen and she she's having tea cuz
she's from Great Britain. I made I made
her tea and she said, "There's an energy
of a cat in your house." And I I don't
have cats. And I said, "Well, I I don't
know why you say that. I never had a cat
before. I never wanted a cat cuz I'm
allergic to cats. She says, "No, there's
an energy of a cat in this house." And I
said, "Well, I'm sorry, Sarah, but
there's there's no cats." She goes, "No,
no, you're wrong. You're really wrong."
And I said, "No, I'm really not wrong."
It was, by the way, it was October, so
it it was like about a month after.
So, she's insisting there's a cat energy
in my house. And I'm and I again
thinking to myself,
[sighs]
she's really pushing all my buttons cuz
it's like one, she's saying things.
Okay, I saw this thing. So there it it
was a struggle between me being
completely grounded going, "What the
is she talking about?" And I saw
this thing when she said it. So it's
it's a struggle that was happening
inside of me. And I was being very nice
to her and I said, "All right, whatever.
Sure." What? And she looked at me, she
goes, "You still don't believe me, do
you?" She goes, "You'll see." And she's
just again very confident.
And she says, "Where did that picture
got get taken? You know, the of the of
the creature." And I told her, I said,
"Well, it's this building. Can you bring
me there?" "Sure, let's go." So, we went
there. She wanted to go there. We go to
the building. Now, it's just an
apartment building, so there's nothing
going on. There's no like it's not like
there's an alien portal in there. It's
like it's just an apartment building.
There's nothing going on. It's boring.
It's you're not going to see anything.
So, we went all the way upstairs. We got
in. We got to the 14th floor. We go to
that apartment door and she's just
standing there and she's like, "Yeah."
She goes, "This is where it happened." I
said, "Yeah." And that's it. That Okay,
get back in the car. And as we're
driving, I go in front of the uh St.
Joseph's Oratory in Montreal, which is a
gigantic church. And I just happened to
go there. And she looked at it and she
goes, "Oh, that's beautiful." I said,
and I thought in my head, "Oh, that's a
cool place to show her because we're
right here cuz she's never been in
Montreal and it's a beautiful view up
there." I said, "Well, actually, you
know what? Let me show you something cuz
you could drive up there and you get to
see the whole city. It's a beautiful
view." So, I said, "Let's go look at the
view." So I I bring her up there and she
goes, "Let's go inside really fast." And
now anybody who's ever been there, it's
a ginormous church. The the the church
is gigantic. And as we walked in,
she grabbed me again under my arm. And
there was never any uh like, "Oh, she
wants to do date me or any." It was
never like that. She was just like that.
And she holds on and she looks and she
goes, "That's how big it is inside the
ships. That's how big they are." And I
remember thinking, "Okay, that's
interesting." You know, but I I didn't
make much of it. We get to in front of
the altar. Now, at the altar, there's
there's a a big cross with Jesus
crucified. It's made out of wood, and
there's the Holy Mary, there's Virgin
Mary, and there's uh Mary Magdalene.
They're both praying, looking up. Okay,
I'm not a practicing Catholic, nor am I
a practicing Christian. I just went in
there because it's beautiful building.
And so,
this is where Area 52 has to put a
massive disclaimer. This is the biggest
disclaimer in the history of
disclaimers. Okay.
>> Okay. And she says to me, she goes, "I'm
going to tell you now and for sure
you're not going to want to talk to me
anymore." And I thought okay what what
you know
[clears throat]
please don't jud people do not judge me
this I'm just relaying a story and the
reason why I'm saying it because of
what's going to follow
she says
I am likely to be the reincarnation
of the daughter of Mary Magdalene and
Jesus
now regardless of the fact that I saw
craft and regardless less of everything.
At this point, I did not believe her.
And I I have to be honest. I have to be
honest. I didn't believe her. In fact, I
ultra didn't believe her. I really
thought that was a coincidence. I got
scammed into something. This person is
is delusional. This is what's going on
in my in my mind. If I don't say that
and got if I don't say that, I'm lying
because that's exactly what I was
thinking.
And she says, "You don't believe me?"
And I said, "Well,
I don't know if I believe you." She
says,
"Well, I want to explain something to
you, but I'm going to explain it to you
in the car." Now, that night, I was
organizing a dinner at my house. So, I
had Don Dandere, his wife that passed
away, but she was going to come as well.
all the people that were up there with
us who had vis seen this and some other
friends that were all going to come for
dinner at my house. She gets in the car
and she says to me, "I was taken up in a
ship one time and they introduced me to
a little girl.
I was in a room and there was a woman
that was that looked like a human but
not 100%
was a normal
humanlooking woman but thinning hair
didn't look 100% human who was holding a
baby and there was a gray with her
and the human hands over the baby this
little girl to her just going like this
and
Sarah's going I don't know why you're
giving me this baby she says because
this is your baby
you have to name her And Sarah says,
"No, no, this is not my baby. I don't
want to name her. I don't want anything
to do with her. She's telling me this."
And they they they were forced they were
like insisting. So she picks up this
little girl and she's holding her and
she's got blue eyes, curly hair,
and they said, "You need to name her.
You need to give her a name."
And the name So she ends up saying the
name. She says, "I'm going to call her
Lily."
And gives back the baby. So, this is in
the car and she says to me,
"I have a little girl that is somewhere
up there and I don't know where she is."
Now, as a person who investigated
abductions or encounters before, this is
not the first time that I hear that
somebody's had a baby, that they've kept
the baby. This is a very common thing
for anybody who is familiar with this.
That's not that uncommon. Although it
sounds pretty crazy, it's not uncommon.
So, I found that interesting, but I'm
also thinking maybe she knows about
that. Maybe she's read about that. Maybe
she's using that as a cover or another
story on top of because she just told me
that she's the daughter of Mary
Magdalene and Jesus. That kind of ruined
everything else that she could tell me.
Yeah. So, we're driving and I remember
the time and I I had to cook dinner. So,
I said, "Look, when I get home, I'm
going to just ask you, you know, make
yourself at home. I'll give you a a
glass of wine if you want, but I got to
prepare dinner. There's a lot of people
coming over." No problem. As I got home,
Lisa was there. And Lisa is French
Canadian. She's she's There's a video of
me with her that came out a long time
ago. And I I I certainly do believe that
Lisa has some type of link to something
very strange. Her mother just recently
passed, by the way. I I found out that
her mom passed away just recently, which
was terrible. And so she's going through
that. And uh and because her mother had
been abducted and all that stuff.
So Lisa's there. She's at the front
door. She was early. So I was like, "Oh,
good." But in my head, I'm thinking, you
can't even hang out with each other
because she speaks French and she speaks
English and neither, you know, they're
not going to be able to communicate
well. So, I'm in the kitchen starting to
cook and they're in the living room and
I and I kid you not, I don't know what
was going on, but I was preparing food
and I could hear Lisa speaking French
and Sarah answering in English
coherently to what Lisa had said and
vice versa, as if they were speaking the
same language.
And I was like I remember going what
what is it? What is going on? Because I
know Lisa doesn't understand English.
I've tried to speak in English to her.
It wasn't it. So I was like how how is
that happening? So I turned around and I
said, "Are you guys talking to each
other?" And Sarah goes, "Don't worry
about it. Don't worry about it. Just
keep cooking." So I was like, it was
just weird. Everybody's going to think
I'm insane, but I'm just relaying what I
experience here. Everybody starts
showing up. We have an amazing night.
Everybody's there. We And I I'll never
forget Vera, uh, Don Dandere's wife,
who's also gone, she passed away,
brought me a big bouquet of lilies, not
knowing, right? So, I put these liies in
a in a in a in a like a flower pot vase.
>> We have dinner.
May the the police officer was there
and he was he I forgot to mention that
for the about two weeks prior to him
prior to this evening between the time
we had seen that craft appear and this
dinner he kept calling me telling me
that I absolutely had to go meet with a
woman in the southshore of Montreal
because she there's a little girl there
that's her utter that is not from here.
And I'm like I I didn't have time for
it. Okay, this is exactly what was
happening to me. I was going through a I
was doing a lot of things. I was
working. I didn't have time for it. And
I kept telling him, I know, I know, but
I can't. I don't have time. And he kept
insisting, trust me, you have to meet
her. Why? I don't know.
So, we're all having dinner.
Everything's beautiful.
The next day, Sarah's leaving. So, next
morning, I have to drive her to the
airport.
Everybody starts leaving. It was like
past midnight. Bye-bye. Bye. Everybody's
hugging. Okay. Take care. Now, it's just
Sarah, me, Lisa, and my cousin who's
there still. It's like almost 1:00 in
the morning. We're talking and the phone
my phone rings and I'm like, "It's
late." I go I go, "Maybe somebody forgot
something." I go to and it's him. The
cop calls me. Hey, Kamasa. How are you?
You know, I'm good.
He says, "Look, I wanted to do that all
night, but I couldn't I couldn't do it.
I have to ask you to do me a favor and
can you ask something? Can you ask Sarah
something?" I said, "Sure. Can you ask
her if the name Lily means anything to
her?" Now, Sarah had not mentioned this
to anybody. She had only said it to me
in the car.
And I remember going,
I didn't say that right away to him. So
I said, hold on. So I call her, she
comes and I said, Sarah. Now I knew the
answer, but I had to pretend that I
didn't know. So I I put him on speaker
and I said, Sarah, he's asking if the
name Lily means anything to you. And she
looks at me. She goes, "Yes, of course.
I told you today." I said, 'I know, but
tell him. She says, 'What do you want me
to tell him? Yes. She says, 'Yes, that's
my daughter in space.
And he goes, "Uh, Luigi, take me off
speaker." So, I get him off speaker and
I'm going I'm talking to him and she
goes, she goes, "Do you need you still
need me?" And I and I looked at her and
I said, "So, so so so that story holds,
right?"
And she get kind of got not mad, but she
goes, "Hold on." She goes to the guest
room. She had brought her binder with
all her drawings. And she pulled out the
drawing she made of Lily, which I could
share so you could show. And I and and I
have this drawing. And I said to him, I
said, "Hold on a second. I'm going to do
I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going
to send you something." So, while I snap
a picture of that drawing and I'm about
to text him,
he texts me a picture of a little girl.
Now, that I cannot share because I don't
have the right to do that.
I swear to Well, you'll you'll you've
seen it. They are an identical match.
The drawing and the picture are
identical. Identical. It's the same
person.
And I remember going to him. I sent him
the drawing. He doesn't see that I sent
him the drawing because he sent it and
took the phone, put it up on his ear.
So, he doesn't know that I just texted
him a picture.
And I'm looking at it and I go, "Dude,
is that the little girl that you've been
asking me to?" He goes, "Yes, and I
can't talk about it more." And I said,
"But what's her name?" He says, "Her
name is Lily."
Now, that blew me away because he kept
saying, "She's not from here." Blah,
blah, blah. And again, disclaimers, this
this is weird. This is all very strange
stuff. Like, you cannot make this stuff
up. They didn't know each other. Nobody
knew each other. There's there's no way
these this was a coordinated, you know,
attack on my, you know, investigative
skills or knowledge of this phen. This
was weird. So, I'm looking at this
going, "What the fuck?" So, I Sarah's
right next to me and I have the picture
of the little girl and I just go,
"Sarah, do you know?" I didn't finish
saying, "Do you know?" She went [gasps]
like, she screamed and she goes, "Oh my
god, that's her. Where is she?" And I'm
like, "What do you mean?" She goes,
"That's her. That is 100% her. Where is
this little girl?" She freaked out and I
I got goosebumps. I'm like, "Well, hold
on a second." She goes, "No, no, no, no,
no." She goes, "There's something I
never told you." I said, "What?" She
goes, "I have to tell you something.
This is really freaking me." She's she's
got tears in her eyes now. My cousin and
Lisa hear this. They run cuz they're
they hear her screaming and she's crying
and she's like, "That is her." Now, the
cop is on the phone going, "Is she
saying that she knows this little girl?"
And then I said, "Check your phone." And
he checks his phone and he stops the
car. He goes, "Oh, dude, I just pulled
over." He goes, "What the is this
drawing?" I said, "It's the drawing she
made of this little girl that she met on
a spaceship."
And she said, and he said, "There's no
way." I go, "Yeah." He goes,
"What's going on?" Cuz you you if you
see them together, they're identical.
There's no way that could have been just
some magical
>> You're a magician. There's no That's a
pretty big magic trick. If that's a
magic trick.
>> I mean, it's it's uh
it's well beyond a conventional
coincidence.
>> Yeah.
>> Um you know, so now it goes into
territory where you got to start to
>> Yeah.
>> maybe think, oh, maybe there is
something here. I that that's that was
that was hard for me to like completely
ignore because I'm looking at images now
that are like matching
>> and once again you're confronted with
this really bizarre reality that she had
presented about her lineage alleged
lineage
>> and and that is about to get confirmed
>> and so let's hear it. So,
so again, you know, disclaimers. And so
we hang up the phone. She starts crying.
She says, "I never told you this, but
the reason why I chose to come to Quebec
was not just because of my boyfriend is
I was in Germany on a hike." And she
said, "On my hike in a German forest."
She said, "I asked them, where do I find
her?"
And she goes, "I looked down on my
hiking boots." And she goes, "You know
those little flags that you put in a
cocktail drink? They have like it's like
a it's like a toothpick with a flag on
it." She goes, "There was a little
Canadian flag stuck in my hiking boot in
the middle of a forest in Germany." And
so she said, "I have to go to Canada."
That's what made her come to Canada.
Which is really weird. So again, is that
true? That's what she said, right? But
it's still interesting.
So the next day she leaves and she
leaves reluctant. She doesn't want to
leave, but she leaves cuz she wants to
meet this little girl. Now, I don't have
any information. So, I clearly call him
back.
And he says, "Look, I'm not really
supposed to tell you who she is. And the
mother doesn't want anybody know to know
who she is. The mother is very very uh,
you know, wants to keep this uh
confidential." [snorts]
So, I said, "No problem." I said, "But
it's still very interesting. I want to
Is there a way to? He says, "Let me see
if I can make you speak to her friend,
the mom's friend." So, I get invited
maybe a day or two after this to go and
meet with her mom's friend. Her mom's
friend knew nothing. Nothing about
Sarah, nothing about me, nothing about
anybody. She He just said, "Somebody
would like to talk to you. Is it okay?"
And she was like, "What?" So when I I
remember when I arrived at her place,
she was like very confused. Who are you
and why are you here? And I said, "It's
so awkward. I just have questions about
a friend of yours." So I don't have
questions for you. I said, "I'm I'm
being told that so and so doesn't want
to talk with anybody about her
daughter." And as soon as I I said that,
she goes, "Oh, you're talking about
Lily." Okay. Like she knew.
And I thought, okay. I said, I want to
tell you who I am. I said, I'm a guy
who's done a lot of work in the past
investigating weird phenomena.
I'm,
you know, got to know him who's a police
officer who got me these pictures. She
knew about the pictures. He had
explained to her. Uh, it's the only
thing she knew about is his link to me
was these pictures.
and her husband is there. And uh I said,
"Look,
there's this woman I got to meet. It's
very It's confusing me. It's I'm
struggling with it. So, I'm going to
tell you something that absolutely is
going to freak you out and make you not
It's going to It's going to put more
questions than answers in your head."
But I have to say it. This woman came up
to me and said that she was the daughter
of Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ. And
the woman went [gasps]
like that. And I was like, "Why did you
just react like that?"
And she says, "Keep going." I said, "No,
no, no, no.
I'm not gonna keep going. Why did you
just react like that?"
And she looks at her husband and there
was like a long pause in the kitchen and
she looks at me and she says her mother
was introduced to her daughter on a
spaceship and it was Jesus who
introduced her to her daughter
and she doesn't talk about anything else
but Mary Magdalene all the time.
Even the cop was like, "Hey, what?"
Like, it was just this weird.
This is the thing, the thing that I
believed the the least out of the whole
story. And here is this sudden,
what the did you just say?
She says, "I'm not allowed to get into
it. I can tell you that there's
something special about the little girl
and that the mother met her on a
spaceship.
That's all I know. And that she's
obsessed with Mary Magdalene. Now,
that's a lot to take in. Okay, it's a
lot to take in because now I'm meeting
another person. The the the cop clearly
didn't say anything. I I if he did, bad
on him. I really don't think so. Cuz he
was really shocked when when she even
her husband turned around like what the
hell are you talking about? Like what
what's going on? It was a real and I
could see her her she's very emotional
and she was protective of her friend and
her friend's daughter. I said, "Look,
I get it. I don't want to impose any
more on your lives. I don't want to. I
don't have uh any urgent need to do
anything. So, I apologize. I don't want
you to bother the mother. Whatever. It's
to it's unfortunate cuz I would I would
have certain I certainly would have
questions for her. She says she doesn't
want to talk to anybody. I don't think
she's going to talk to you. Okay, fine.
We exchanged phone numbers and and
contact and I left.
This sat with me for maybe like 2 3
weeks. I I'll I'll I I was like, "What
am I doing with this?" And Sarah was
calling me and I didn't want to say to
Sarah. Sarah called me. I didn't want to
say to Sarah, "I met a woman who knows
her and she keeps talking about M." Cuz
if I say that, it's going to make Sarah
either be more delusional or if it's
real, completely drive her nuts. I don't
I didn't want to instigate more. And I
was investigating. So, I'm at the same
time being very cautious what I'm saying
to who to also figure out how is this
information getting out there cuz I'm,
you know, again, I'm thinking the only
way for her to know is if the cop would
have said something. I really didn't
think he did that because he genuinely
didn't look to me like the person who
did that. And he hadn't shared the
pictures, by the way. Yeah, I forgot to
mention he never shared the pictures
because he was like, I don't want to.
It's not It's not up to me. It's not my
little girl. It's not I don't want to do
that. I feel He was even feeling weird
having the pictures.
So did I. By the way, because at this
point, it's not my little girl. It's It
has nothing to do with me, but what the
is going on?
I get um so I get a call
out of the blue from the same guy who
had come up to me at McGill University
that day when Don Dandere was talking
and I was sitting next to my cop friend.
That same guy calls me and he says, "I
need you to meet somebody in downtown
Montreal if you have time. She's been
abducted and she's going through a lot
of trauma." At that moment, I'll never
forget. And I told him, I said, "Dude, I
am I am busy. I've got a lot of stuff
going on. I don't think I can take
another case right now." He's like, "You
really need to. You really, really
need." He He kept saying, "You really
need to."
So, long story short, I agreed to it on
a Saturday morning 10:00. I go to
downtown Montreal and there's a
restaurant there uh that was uh like a
it's like an old house. So, there's like
multiple floors and on the very top
floor there's a a book room. There's
like only books. So, he said, "Meet us
up there." So, I went all the way
upstairs and I walk into this room. It's
it's me, him, the owner of the
restaurant, and this girl. Now, this
girl has got her back to me, and she's
reading. She's looking at the books.
She's young. So, nobody knows anybody
really. I I guess he knew that they I
had to get introduced. So, she turns
around, she says, "Oh, hello."
And uh I should just make a quick pause.
that week that during that week I kept
seeing I know this is going to sound
really cheesy and corny but I kept
seeing 444 on my phone every day I kept
seeing 444 and I I started
screenshotting it cuz I'm like why am I
always seeing this it was just a number
that kept appearing so I just I remember
screenshotting 444 had no meaning to me
but I just remember doing that that week
so anyway it's side note it's important
so she turns around she's nice young
girl. She introduces herself. Her name
is Emily. Not Emily Trim. Another Emily.
And I Nice to meet you. We sit down and
we say, "Why don't we do an
introduction?" So, it starts off with
me. Hi, I'm so and so and I've been
doing this for a long time. Then it goes
to the guy who in who's invited me and
then the owner of the restaurant and
then he gets to her.
And again, disclaimer, this I'm
reporting what happened. She said to me,
"My name is Emily and I have been
visited by them on multiple occasions. I
am not from Montreal, but I was told to
come to Montreal."
And she looked right at me like at that
moment. And she says, "And I want to
start by saying that 444 is very
important."
And I was told to come to Montreal
because there's a little girl here
called Lily and her mother's Sarah and
she's the daughter of Mary Magdalene.
I swear that's what she said. And I I'll
never forget I had tears in my eyes and
I was like
there was no way. And the guy who
invited me, he looks at me and I said,
"Guys, if you could just leave the room
for a second."
And and she said, "Yes, please. Please
leave the room." And they left the room.
And it was just me and her. And she
looked at me and she goes, "You know
her, don't you? Tell me you know her."
I said, "Who are you?" Like I I was so
like it was such a weird thing and I
thought, "Who are you? Like how do you
know this?" She goes, "I knew you knew.
I knew you saw 444, right?" And I said,
"What the are you talking about?
I cannot explain that, Chris.
I have done
hundreds if not thousands of reports of
these things in my life. I've worked
closely with Emily Trim, who was a a
witness at the Ariel Primary School.
I've I know Lisel Field from Ariel
Primary Primary School. I now know
Emily's brother, Paul, who was also a
witness. I've worked with abductees here
in in Quebec, multiple cases. I've met
people from all over the world. I got
trained by David Jacobs on abductions
and encounters. I got I got trained by
Don Dandere on how to speak the
psychology, perceptive psychology of
this phenomenon. I am extremely
grounded. I do not mix religion with
aliens. I try not to. I'm extremely uh
how do you say that in in English? But
I'm I'm very grounded and very
methodical.
I don't jump to conclusions. I hate
jumping to conclusions.
That's impossible.
That was impossible.
There's no way she could have known that
unless it was a gigantic coordinated
thing.
For what?
For what? Like what's the what's the end
goal here? Let's say they all
coordinated. Let's say Sarah is friends
with Emily. And let's say this guy who
had called me his friends and they're
all trying to like create some some scam
or some fake story for what? What's the
goal? Nobody. What's the goal? Now, I
can also confirm
the So, right after this,
I'm going to fast forward. I finally
convince the mother of Lily to speak to
me through her that woman, the friend.
Finally,
this happened in 2015.
I'll never forget. I think it was close
to my birthday. So, it was around this
time.
She finally accepts to talk to me on the
phone and I call her. She answers the
phone.
She's she speaks French
and uh we start talking. Now again, it's
really important. I did not relay this
information to the cop.
Her friend didn't know this whole thing
with this other Emily. I'm not telling
anybody. This is very these are
closeknit circles here. Okay.
So the mother
I asked her I said look I am really in
an uncomfortable position here. I have
to talk about your daughter and I don't
want to make you think that I want to
know too much about your daughter cuz I
cannot I cannot even imagine how you
must be suspicious of this this stranger
this man who's asking you about your
young daughter. It's 100% strange. So, I
understand if you don't want to talk
about it, but I'm hoping that you can
elaborate a little bit about why your
friend says it's possible that she's not
from here.
And she says to me,
I was brought in I was brought I was
taken I was brought onto a spaceship. I
said, "How do you how do you know it was
a spaceship?" She says, "I don't know,
but I know it was a spaceship. It wasn't
made. It wasn't a place that I
recognized from Earth. I was in a room
with lots of women. It was a round room,
and there were other women sitting in
the room with me. And these women all
looked like they were shut off." She
said they didn't look like they were
awake. They their eyes were open, but
they looked like robots, like they were
not activated.
And she says, "Jesus, I met Jesus. He
came into the room and said to me, you
are about to become a mother and I will
introduce you to your child." He left
the room and the little girl ran into
the room and said, "Mama, mama jael li
mommy mommy. My name is Lily." And she
says, "That's how I met her on a ship.
And I was returned and I was impregnated
by my husband and I had her and she
ended up looking identical to the little
girl I saw on the ship.
Everything I just said throughout this
whole story doesn't make any sense.
But there's no way these f these pieces
of information should make connections.
If if all of this is completely
nonsensical,
why does it start connecting dots?
Why is it? And then I also eventually
sorry I forgot to say I also asked her,
do you believe in are you a Catholic?
Are you Christian? you know and she says
not practicing she says but I do feel a
connection to Mary Magdalene
I don't know why and she kept saying I
feel a connection to Mary Magdalene but
I don't know why she goes so I have I
have a lot of thoughts about her she
wasn't a she's not a crazy woman by the
way but oh by the way I I eventually did
meet her years later I not only met her
spoke to her husband her husband is a
billionaire
by the way who's very wealthy man very
very wealthy okay uh they you know you
would very protective of their kids
which is normal completely normal you
met the kid
>> I met her one time I met believe it or
not out of all places I met her in a
church I met her in a church cuz it was
a Christmas um not a Christmas sorry
yeah it was a Christmas event here in in
the Laurentians here. And yeah, here I
met her here in the Laurentians and I
was going to meet the mother and when I
when I finally saw the mother cuz I had
seen a picture of her. I recognized her.
I walked up to her and boom, she shows
up. The little girl shows up and I was
just like her eyes are so
beautiful. It's just blue blue. Like
super blue eyes. And the little girl
looked at me and just turned around and
ran away. I didn't even want to talk to
her cuz I was like, I do not want the
mom to ever feel
>> Yeah. So weird.
>> It's so weird. So I I did not even
address her. I only address the mother
cuz for me it was super critical that I
do not there's a boundary there and I'm
not going to go beyond it.
>> Yeah. And I I remember meeting her, very
nice woman, very very sweet,
French Canadian.
Uh and ironically,
she was born in the ex and raised in the
exact same place where Lisa was raised,
which is very far away from here.
>> Lisa, whose mother was abducted?
>> Yeah. Very far away from here, north of
Quebec.
Lisa, who's also 6'3.
>> Yeah. 63.
>> Blonde, blue eyes.
>> Yeah.
>> Bombshell woman.
>> Absolutely. She doesn't. She she she had
met Travis Walton. Travis said she looks
identical to what what he had seen.
>> Exactly. Yeah. So, this story, this
story of this little girl, Lily, the
story of Sarah, the now things obviously
continued and progressed. I wanted to
get to the bottom of it.
And it's so interesting. And I'm going
to say something else that again, it's
crazy. When my father passed away,
my dad died in 2008.
And when my dad died, uh I had a dream
of of him. The night the night after he
died, I dreamt of my dad.
And I remember I was at a in my dream, I
was sitting down at a chair on a chair
and my legs were crossed. And I remember
looking to my right and I and I saw
somebody arriving here to my left. And I
looked up and it was him
and he was in a suit and he looked in he
looked younger. He looked in great
health. He looked incredible but he
looked uh he gave me a look of very it
was a very uh it was a very meaningful
look. He didn't look happy. He looked at
me like uh like my dad would have looked
at me when I was younger with basically
saying you still have a lot to learn.
That was the look. That's what I got
from his look was there's still a lot
you have to learn. So I stood up. I
remember thinking cuz I in my dream I
knew he had died. So he's there. I stood
up and on his left here it it was a
piece of masking tape. You know this
painters tape, the beige painters tape
on his black suit and it was a piece of
masking tape and it was written with a
black marker
13.90.
Chris, I I I went bananas after that
dream trying to figure out what that
was. I I went absolutely
bananas. I wanted to know what is 113.9
or 113.90. What is that? I spent
this was while all this was going on. I
was always thinking and I've always had
that in the back of my mind. I I used to
have that in the back of my mind. Every
single day that I was I would wake up,
my dad showed me a number. It means
something
>> to me. It was like that means something.
What is it? Is it a radio station? Is
it, you know, what is it? And it was
never clear. And so
Sarah calls from Great Britain, says,
"I'm going to be going to the United
States. I have to go see a friend of
mine in uh New Jersey." And I thought,
"Oh, that's not too far away."
She says, "Would you like to come to see
me?" And I and I said,"Id love to." So I
called Emily and I said,"Emily,
there's a woman.
Would you like to come with me? We'll
go." It was a bed and breakfast. They
were staying in New Jersey at a bed and
breakfast. And I said, "Let's do." She
says, "Let's go." So it was so it was
like a I don't like made that those
decisions in an hour, right?
Sarah arrived in New Jersey. She was
staying with a friend of her, well, a
friend at an Airbnb with a friend of
hers.
And Emily and I arrived. And so she
meets Emily and this is, "How are you?
How are you?" We're sitting there
and um this is really strange.
Emily had some type of
really good friendly connection with
Sarah. So they were always laughing and
talking and they got really got along.
[clears throat and cough] This guy Ken
get in his truck and he goes and and uh
Sarah goes, "Hey Luigi," she goes, "You
like crystals, don't you?" Cuz I I
collect expensive crystals. And I said,
"Yeah, you remember that?" Cuz she had
come to my house and she had seen some.
And she says, "There's a crystal cave
not too far away." Ken told me and we
could go there and there's like a bunch
of crystals. And I thought, "A crystal
cave? How in how weird is that?" I said,
"Let's do it. Let's go." Nothing else to
do.
It was a a snow. It was some snow out.
So, we get in the truck and we're
driving. And on our way there, Dude, I
can't make this up. I go, "Where is
it, by the way? Where's the crystal
cave?
Oh. Oh, it's in Bethlehem, New Jersey.
[laughter]
Wait, wait, wait. I swear to God. I
swear. But wait. I'm like,
right. So, I'm like, you guys are all
putting on a show. It's like,
it's in Bethlehem, New Jersey. I go,
you're kidding, right? And and he goes,
no, why? Because for him, he lives
there. He's like, it's just a name. And
Sarah, she's in the front seat, turns
around and she goes, "You find that
funny, don't you?" And I'm like, "Shut
up." You know, like I I was I I was
joking around with her. So, we're in the
truck and it's a it's a good half an
hour from where we were to get there.
And I suddenly bring up the fact that
I've been for for the longest time
trying to figure out what this 113.9
means. And I'm talking to Emily in the
back seat going, "Yeah, this is
something that I've always been curious
about." And Sarah just turns around and
says, "Oh, I know what it is. Do you
want to know?" And I'm like, "I [sighs]
hate you." [laughter]
Cuz if it's going to make sense, it's
going to really piss. It was starting to
piss me off.
She says, "It's in the Bible." I never I
never had thought about the Bible. And
I'm like, "The Bible?" She goes, "Psalms
113.9. Read it. it it talks about you
and I thought what like none of
everything was like I'm in a dream so I
I googled it obviously anybody could
Google it it's he who gives house he who
cares for barren women
that have children not by men like the
Virgin Mary is a barren
H. And I found that interesting cuz I'm
like, every time I used to do abduction
cases, it's women who either got
impregnated or had these these fetuses
taken away from them, but they weren't
having these kids with their husbands.
>> Wow.
>> Which I found really weird. So, and I
said, and I looked at her and I said,
"You remember a a a verse like a the
Psalms, you know?" She goes, "Of
course." I know all of it. It's just a
weird thing. So, we finally get off. The
exit to go to Bethlehem was I took a
picture of it. I have it somewhere. It's
uh Virgin Mary exit.
I swear to you, I can't make this
up. So, that was my trip to go see Sarah
in New Jersey. Okay. So, obviously,
you know, I I went back. I met with Don
Dandere and I said, "Look, this is
insane. Is Don, Don, sit down." I said,
"Don, this is not normal." And he says,
"You need to start writing all this down
for real because there there's always
coincidences in life, but this seems
like there's just too many." So,
>> I'd agree. So if you think about stories
in all my in all my career as
investigating the this phenomena
that is by far the one that had so many
pieces that made no sense to me
>> but it doesn't end there.
>> No it doesn't.
>> What happened to Sarah?
>> H well so well Sarah is gone.
I uh I was in communic so she went back
to Great Britain.
She lived on a place she lived on Holy
Island. It's a place called Holy Island
in Great Britain.
>> Go figure.
>> Yeah. Isn't that crazy? And uh I was in
communication with her almost every 3 4
days. We would talk. We would at least
write each other, call each other,
whatever.
And about maybe a month or two before I
lost complete contact with her, I had a
weird dream. I I I thought it was a
dream and apparently in in the night I
wrote gibberish on a text message to her
and I sent her the text. The next
morning she wrote me. She says, "What
the hell did you write me?" And I said,
"I never wrote you." She goes, "Go look
at your text." And I look at the text
and I it was you know when you send like
a long it was just me pressing anything
and I sent it to her in the middle of
the night. I don't know why I did that.
It was just a weird thing that I that
happened and I thought oh I must have I
don't know why I maybe I hit a button or
something but it's like a long text like
that and it was just anything. It was
there was no spaces. It was just
letters. a lot of letters and she said,
"I don't feel safe anymore. I don't I
don't know what will happen with all
that everything that's happened." She
goes, "I'm very sad about that. I never
got to meet Lily because regardless of
the fact that we did connect with the
mom, the mom had what wanted nothing to
do with that." And I understand
completely understand that. And so did
Sarah, by the way. Yeah. So did Sarah.
So she was never angry. She was just sad
that it never happened. She never got
angry. And uh
there was somebody uh I remember Emily
actually Emily the Emily that uh that
got became friends with us. This girl
that had been abducted and Emily Trim.
We were all hanging out together.
And I'll never forget, we were all in
Montreal together and we got word that
Sarah was being threatened. Somebody was
was threatening Sarah.
Uh some crazy person. I don't know what
happened.
And she said, "I'm going to try my best
to uh lay low."
And I thought, "Okay, well, let's let's
stay in touch." And I, you know, let me
you you reach out to me. I never heard
back from her ever again. I reached out
to people on Holy Island. Very small, by
the way. I Nobody has ever been able to
give me her information or what what
happened to Sarah. I knew her address.
Nobody ever saw her again. So, she she
vanished. There was also
she was Wasn't she um
Were there like strange men? Yeah.
Looking for her? Uh yeah. So I was going
to bring it up, but yeah. Oh, so yeah,
that's uh that happened
that happened before
I met her in Quebec
or Yeah, it was right before I met her
in Quebec. When she was on her way to
Quebec, she landed in New York City
flying to North America. The plane
landed in New York. From New York, she
was going to come to Quebec, which is
not far.
She ended up staying in New York for a
day and she was at Grand Central Station
and she was sitting there with her
luggage
and she said two men came close to her
and said what did they she said one of
them had a ring a big giant mason sign
you know the the masons. So she
recognized that on his hand and he just
stopped, looked at her and said
something like, "We know who you are. We
know why you're here."
And she was like, "I don't I don't know
who you are. I don't I don't want to
know anything about you." Like she she's
she's you know, you're in a you're in a
train station. A guys are talking to a
girl. Most of the women will just be
like, "Fuck off. Leave me alone."
But she said they were very weird like
like they were aware of who she was.
They it wasn't like they were trying to
take her, but she she said they they
they knew me. They knew who I was and I
was there to go up to Quebec. And that
they were saying, "We know who you are.
We know where like basically we know
where you're going." And that was it.
That was if I remember correctly, that
was the interaction with these guys. She
had another interaction when she was on
Holy Island where there was a a a man
and another guy in a car. So there was
two people, one in a car and one outside
that were following her all the time,
but she said they didn't look like they
belonged on Holy Island. Didn't look
like people from there. So she had
mentioned that to me a few times and she
was worried about it. I don't know. I
don't know what to make out what to make
of it.
There's a lot I'm not giving you I'm not
saying in the story because it's a if I
start elaborating on everything she
described to me over the the course of
time that I knew her and all the all the
drawings that she had made for me and
all the the information. It's it's
enormous. Okay. The reason why I did
this is the first time I'm sharing this
by the way and and it's with you. So, I
I I really, you know, I know you're
going to have the right disclaimers out
for this, but
I I will never I'll never I'll never
believe that that was just coincidence.
I'll never believe that that was just
some type of random
interaction with people.
I don't know what happened. I don't know
what it is. I don't I don't pretend to
know what it is, but I can say this.
It's probably the reason why I left
the field permanently
because after that and after losing my
friend Emily
with this which is the aerial case, I
didn't want to investigate this anymore.
I got I got enough out of this field
that I said
I'm just going to tell stories now. I'm
going to make the stories come to life.
I don't I'm never I don't think we're
ever going to get to an answer on these
things. I don't think I don't think the
government is going to give us an answer
on the nuts and bolts and I don't think
that the aliens are going to give us an
answer as to why Mary Magdalene fits
into the picture. I don't think we're
going to get that. In fact, I have to
say one I forgot to say one thing out of
this story.
After I met with
the mother, the friend of the mother of
Lily, I had gone to Toronto to see Emily
Trim.
Emily had no idea at all that I was
working on at all. Absolutely zero. And
I went to her house. She lived in
Atobbico at the time. And I went to pick
her up, Emily Trim from Rua, Zimbabwe,
and I'll never forget, she walked, she
she climbs into the front seat and we
were super happy to see her. I have
pictures of that night with her. I
really miss Emily.
And she brought her diary with her in
the car. It was a red book.
And I remember asking her, "What's
that?" She goes, "Oh, it's my diary." I
said, "Why did you bring it in the car?"
She goes, "Cuz I wanted you to read it."
It was okay.
I appreciate that because she says, "You
always ask me questions. If you read my
diary, you'll you'll have some answers
to a lot of things cuz I write a lot in
it. It's very personal."
And I said to her, I said, "Can I can I
see it?" And she says, "Absolutely." and
she opened the page. I'll never forget I
I hope her mother still has it. She
opened the book and in big black like
she wrote it with a black marker and she
wrote it super big on both pages. She
went on both pages without knowing
anything. She wrote Mary Magdalene on
both pages.
And I looked at her and I remember
saying, "Why did you write that?" She
says, "Because it has everything to do
with that."
So,
>> it's like some Da Vinci code.
>> I I mean, it's so
>> It's so wild.
>> It's It Exactly.
>> Um, you know, it was interesting once
you told me too that you went to the
Vatican.
>> Yeah.
>> And the picture you took.
>> Yes. I thought that was just such an
interesting like extra connection that
you could never have made.
>> In 2015, I went to the Vatican with
Sarah.
>> And that's where you're originally from
too. This is where from Rome.
>> Your mom's from Italy.
>> I used to go to the Vatican on Sundays.
Yeah. Okay. Like that was my grand my
grandfather would take me to church on
Sunday. It would be the Vatican. Yeah.
Okay. So, I was familiar with the
Vatican and I wanted to go back cuz it's
beautiful regardless of whether we
practice or not and regardless of the
fact that I don't agree that they should
have gold ceilings at the Vatican. Okay,
there's a lot of people that could
benefit from that, but it's still
beautiful. So, I I went uh to the
Vatican in 2015. Uh there was a se
there's a section that is no longer
accessible to the public. I went back in
2019 and they've closed it off. It's no
longer accept. They made a wall. You
can't even see where I'm talking about
now. And on the left side, if you go
into the basilica on the left side, you
have to walk a w. It used to be a place
where they had it uh corded off there.
These uh you know those like little red
ropes,
>> ropes and stuff,
>> but you can go, you have to wait. And
there was a section uh there's all these
guard the guards are dressed in black
suits. They look like the men in black.
And in the Vatican, everybody's dressed
in a black suit and the men in black are
at the Vatican. I'm kidding. So
[laughter] wouldn't surprise me.
>> That's what Yeah, it wouldn't surprise
me either. But they're all there and
you're It says no photo about a hundred
time like a hundred places. Like if if
you don't understand that, you're insane
cuz they they repeat it to you so many
times before you go to that area. So,
and then they're also telling you
they're not only it's written, but
they're also saying no photo. No photo.
Like they keep they going right in your
face. So, okay, I get it. No photo. So,
it's an area and I could I'll share the
picture so you could put it up. And
there's the um there's a gold there's an
altar. It's a small altar. There's
chairs
and uh there's a gold I don't know if
you want to call it like a a container
or something. It's a pretty big one. And
inside there there's the bones of one of
the apostles. Okay. And right on the
wall there's a painting of Jesus Christ
holding a baby
and a bouquet of liies, lily flowers.
And there's a halo around over the head
of around the head of Jesus and on the
head of the child
in Christianity. Have everybody verify
this.
A ha a halo above everybody's heads like
the saints and the all these people is
yellow. The only person who has a white
halo is Jesus Christ.
He and the child had a white halo.
>> What did the child look like?
>> It looked like Lily. [laughter]
Okay.
And
I asked the guard there. I said in
Italian, I said, "Who's the baby?"
And the guard looked at me and he says,
"It's not a baby."
I said, "Well, who's the child?" "It's
not a child." Like in a in a in a It's
not a child. like he knew like it's not
a child. And I said in Italian, I said,
"Well, what is it?" He says, "Just a
representation of hope. Keep walking."
Like in a very rude way.
So I took a picture
when they said not to.
Because why would you paint a child in
Jesus's hands, arms, sorry, and make
that a representation of hope?
Why would you do that? What what is what
told you that that's what that is?
>> And what do the liies signify?
>> And what do the liies signify? And why
at that specific location in the church
>> were there so many guards and no
pictures allowed? I snuck a picture with
my phone. It's not like I took my
camera. I I took a picture because I
don't ever tell me not to take a picture
cuz I'm going to take a picture. You
know, that's just the way I am. So, but
it it meant something to me. And the
fact that it has a that the little kid
has a white halo,
it it it means something. Especially in
in Christianity, a white halo is only
supposed to be for Jesus.
>> Have you looked into what the lily could
signify?
>> I remembered. I did. Uh I'm trying to
remember, but not there. It there it is
repeated.
>> Should we look it up real quick?
>> Sure, look it up.
>> I'd be interested right now.
>> Absolutely. I mean, it's a it it's got I
don't have my phone here with me, so
um
the lily flowers.
It's a really interesting
in Christianity. Okay, we'll see here.
Powerful symbol in Christianity tied to
purity, innocence, and divine grace.
The white lily, especially the Madonna
lily. [laughter]
Madonna.
>> Madonna. Isn't that interesting?
>> Yeah.
Is strongly associated with purity,
which is why it's often linked to Virgin
Mary. [snorts]
>> In religious art, it reinforces her
sinless and immaculate nature.
>> Uh, in depictions of the enunciation,
the angel Gabriel is often shown holding
a lily when he appears to Mary. The
flower symbolized the purity of Christ's
conception.
>> Huh. Three, the resurrection and hope.
The Easter lily is widely used in
churches during Easter. Its trumpet
shape uh in bright white color symbolize
the resurrection of Jesus, new life and
spiritual birth. And four, holiness and
divine beauty. Lily imagery is sometimes
connected to teachings of Jesus Christ.
For example, when he speaks about the
liies of the field, Matthew 6:28,
highlighting God's provision and natural
beauty without human striving.
>> So purity, divine favor, resurrection,
spiritual beauty.
>> Interesting.
>> It is. I mean
>> it is
>> you know if you were looking for a
rabbit hole you found one like this is
>> that is the ultimate rabbit hole.
>> It is so this is very Da Vinci Codeesque
I will say
>> absolutely and that's why that's why I
became
um that's why it became such a big part
of my life at that time.
>> Yeah. And it was also I couldn't
[laughter] I'm gonna say this and get
get grabbed for it, but I don't think I
could ever have beaten that as a case.
>> Yeah.
>> So I I I stopped.
>> Yeah. I I just walked away and I thought
if if ever there's something to this if
there is something to this if there is
which possible [sighs and gasps]
then we are not just dealing with some
type of extraterrestrial faction or some
extraterrestrial civilization.
There's something that is integrally
related to our belief systems to our to
our maybe they created a belief system.
Maybe they're integral to it. Maybe
there's something else that we need to
be unafraid of talking about in order to
connect the dots. Maybe that's why
religion is is kept so far away from
this research because if you do, you
start becoming criticized the same way I
used to get criticized in the 80s. If I
if we both of us, you're you're very
become prominent person in this and I
just made a film now, but other than
that, I'm no longer as active as I used
to be. And if you and I were starting to
go do talks and we start talking about
Jesus and aliens in the same talk, we're
going to go from here to here real fast.
No matter how open the conversation is
and no matter how less judgmental
society has become, that's kind of a
>> there's a taboo.
>> There's a taboo.
>> And especially and like I'm I'm pretty
agnostic when it comes to this stuff
like and I know you uh you are pretty
much as well. Like it's it's more of
like the I don't know.
>> And I'm happy to just listen. Um, but
you know, tying this back to Bob Lazar,
there's also a Jesus connection there.
>> It's crazy. Exactly.
>> Which is wild. You know, the blue
documents, he read that Jesus was some
type of hybrid or something.
>> Absolutely. And we had a conversation
about that. He doesn't didn't absolutely
did not want me to put any of that in
the in the film because in in the story
of Bob Lazar, Bob was given access to a
bunch of folders that were inside the
briefing room. And there was a book a
book a file in there this thick on
religion. And Gene Huff covered that a
lot in in my interviews and you're going
to see that on our we are not alone
channel. But Gene Huff says the way it
was written cuz he remembered how Bob
said that it was written. It says the
Christian God as you know him doesn't
exist.
Not that the Christian God doesn't
exist. the Christian God as you know
him.
>> Those words are important.
>> Yeah,
>> that's how it was written. Now, is that
all fake in is is that all, you know,
some information to derail the story of
Bob Lazar to to derail him, make him
believe all sorts of very possible.
That's why we didn't put it in there.
Bob said, "Don't put any of this stuff
in there. Maybe it's all bullshit."
Yeah. You know, and and so on. And so, I
was very careful about that.
>> Gene Huff keeps talking about it,
though.
>> Yeah. different if Bob was like
introduced to a guy claiming to be Jesus
and then he would talk about it because
then Bob would be like no there was a
guy said he was the name of Jesus
>> right but you know that's not
>> just like he worked in a craft he's like
I'll talk about that cuz I could touch
it but
>> but that was not the case
>> so there's a whole book about you know
uh I also have
>> I did not think we'd be talking about
Bob Lazar and Jesus [laughter] by the
way before we started this podcast
>> Bob is gonna find out about this and
call me he's gonna be like we need to
talk.
>> Keep my name out of your mouth.
>> But there was a there was also a
conversation with Bob. Well, not not
with Bob. Well, yeah, with Bob about
those documents. Something to do and it
was also with Gan Huff. Gene Huff
remembers a lot of it because when Bob
used to go home would tell Jean all this
stuff. Jean's a Jean's a is a historical
record in human form. Like that guy
remembers what he ate on December 22nd,
1974. Like he's incredibly accurate with
he's super super smart guy. And Jean
remembers everything. And he said, you
know, they they were talking about the
fact that Jesus was left here was was
Yeah. It was it was something about
>> So left behind or
>> left behind with somebody else. And and
in the process of me making this film, I
had the opportunity and the the honor,
not just that, cuz it was a privilege to
meet with them and talk with them, to
meet with Lane Kek, who was the
hypnotist who hypnotized Bob Lazar after
all this happened right after right
after we're talking April April of 1989.
So this was like I mean right there. And
uh Bob did a few sessions with him. And
the reason why he did that, excuse
[clears throat] me, the reason why he
had done that was because he said, "I
just he just wanted to see if the if the
regressions could clarify more memory."
I mean, [clears throat] he said, "I was
shown so much stuff that I couldn't
remember everything," which is normal,
obviously. So Lane did those
regressions, took notes, handwritten
notes at the time. And when I had uh
when I interviewed Lane Kek, who by the
way is an incredible person, wonderful
man, very thankful that he participated,
we were not able to put him in the film,
but there will be an episode that's
going to follow with Lane and all the
information that he provided to us. And
he said, "I have all the original notes
that I have never shown anybody."
I was really curious and I said, "Do you
have them on hand?" He says, "I do." He
says, "If Bob gives me permission, I
will share them with you and you would
be the very first person I ever share
them with." So I said, "I'll I'll of
course I'll ask Bob." So I commit I
connected them back together. They
hadn't talked in a long time. So they
were super happy just to connect.
Bob said, "No problem. You could give
them all to Luigi." He just said asked
me. He says, "Look," he goes, "There's a
couple of things in there that are not
to be put." Obviously, he's getting
hypnotized private stuff of his life and
whatever in those docu
it's it's it's actually uh unethical to
do so. So, I'm not going to do something
like that unless they say, "Sure, go
ahead." And I would always need both of
them to vet it cuz it's Bob's life plus
it's Lane's work. So, it's not But I got
to read them. I I think I even shared
some with you. And there's information
about about Jesus and and who he is and
where it comes from and why he was left
here. And I mean,
>> it's very strange.
>> It's very strange.
>> It's very strange.
>> And why would it be in government
documents? Yeah.
>> So,
who knows?
>> Yeah.
>> Who knows? You know,
>> I don't know. But I'm having fun trying
to figure it out.
>> Oh, [laughter]
>> you know what I mean? Yeah.
>> I
>> getting to the answer I feel would would
just like it's kind of like the um in
the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, a
book by Douglas Adams, there's this
machine that they use to punish people.
It's called the total perspective
vortex. And what it does is that it puts
you in perspective of how small,
infantessimately small you are compared
to the vastness of the universe. And you
start to comprehend it.
>> And the fact that you comprehend it
literally drives you crazy. And it like
blows your mind. Literally blows your
mind. You become completely useless. And
I feel like the answer might be akin to
the total perspective vortex. And so I I
you know although the pursuit of it I
think is healthy I think uh the most
unhealthy thing is probably finding out
what it is. I mean, I I think so. And I
in fact, it it it's it's almost similar
to what my dad told me at a certain
point before he passed. And I remember I
went and visit him and he he he he was
in a hospital, but he he sat up and
looked at me and he says, "I've learned
so many things in this life
that I've learned that I haven't learned
anything yet."
And he says, "I understood." Sorry, cuz
I'm saying it from Italian. I've
understood so many things in this life
that I've understood that I haven't
understood anything yet.
>> Which is yeah very circle very full
circle you know
>> that is uh that is some good good
philosophy some healthy
>> philosophy that he had there at the end
of his life.
>> Yeah.
>> All right Luigi we're going to take some
questions from the audience. I mean
>> let's go.
>> First of all hey before we do that thank
you for sharing all that. Oh, it's first
time.
>> It's the It's like the second time I've
heard this story in full.
>> Yeah.
>> And um
>> it blows my mind. And it's one of those
things that like when you hear,
you know, there is a small faction of
sort of
skeptical individuals who will pick
apart every single little thing.
>> Oh, they will.
>> And and that's okay. We need those
people in life. Um, and there are people
that are going to go the other way and
completely take it as some dogma.
>> Yeah.
>> And
>> both are dangerous.
>> Both are dangerous. And I think both
should be approached in in, you know,
similar skeptical ways. And, you know,
we just kind of have to find the middle
ground here. But regardless of any of
that, it's such a cool story.
>> It is.
>> It's the coolest story.
>> It is because
>> because now we have another question.
And I think that's what makes it a cool
story. Not because we have some type of
answer or because we have a puzzle
piece, but because now we have another
question. And a question is exciting.
That's that's why I love this stuff. Not
for the answers. The answers are
>> That's the expansion.
>> Yes. I I I say this to people and they
take it the wrong way. Answers are
inconsequential. They will not fulfill
you. They will not give you what you
desire. What will give you what you
desire is the ability to ask a new
question. And that is so vital in a
space that feels saturated, that feels
sort of overdone. A new question
>> is gold and it's just it's so
invigorating. And so, thank you for
sharing that.
>> Speaking of new questions, I'm going to
go turn on this camera.
>> Okay. from Obi-Wan Kenobi.
>> Obi-Wan,
>> is there a lesserknown UFO/abduction
case that you feel has been overlooked
or is worthy of greater scrutiny?
>> It's a good question.
>> Mhm.
>> Do you feel like there's one that the
public eye might be aware of? I think
Well, I mean, abduction,
I know that you're a big fan of the Gulf
Breeze stuff. We touched on that a
little bit. Do you think that that
merits a second look?
>> Yes, 100%.
>> 100%. There's no question in my mind it
merits a second look.
>> What gives you that impression?
>> Uh there was just too many uh people in
Gulf Breeze that had seen the craft uh
flying around there in 1987 8889. There
was just too many people. And if there
were not so many people in G Breeze that
would have seen that craft, I would have
said maybe it is a hoax. Maybe he did
make it all up. It does look like
superimposed images in some cases. So,
you know, I remember that case very very
well. Uh Bruce Mcabe uh I remember at
the time Bruce Makabe is no longer with
us uh had investigated the images and
the one image of that craft low to the
ground near the road. He had determined
deemed it 100% authentic. He was very
serious about that. I remember that and
that had gotten my attention. In
addition to that image, there were I
think two to 300 people in Gulf Breeze
who who seen saw the craft. You can't
make that up. You can't invent two 300
people. There's not going to be a
nobody's going to believe that you were
you managed to do that unless it's a
film. Okay? Unless you're filming and
they're all actors and they all got paid
and they're, you know, non
non-disclosure agreements and I mean
that's not what happened.
>> There's also video.
>> There is. I have I have one.
>> There's like Yeah, but there's also
daytime videos.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I have one video the
original
>> the nighttime one. It's
>> I saw that one.
>> It's solid. It's a solid video.
>> It is solid. And the the daytime one too
of the one just taking off.
>> Absolutely.
>> It's one of my favorite videos.
>> Yeah. That's why I say we need to find
Ed Walters the lot. I haven't heard from
him anymore and I would love a deeper
dive in uh Gulf Breeze. I'd love
>> road trip to Florida.
>> Oh, absolutely. I'm down anytime. I for
that. I'm down 100%.
>> Yeah, I could I could I could use
vacation.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Here. [clears throat]
Okay.
It's a good question.
by not quite human. Is there any aspect
of the phenomena that you've co that
you've uncovered that you think is vital
for people to understand?
Any aspect of the phenomena that you've
uncovered that you think is vital for
people to understand?
>> Uh yes. So I think one of the things
that is extremely vital depending on
what part of we're looking at and if
we're going to talk about
if we're going to talk about the beings
okay we're not going to talk about the
craft you know the technology because
that's a separate it's like like Bob
says I don't care about the beings that
care about the technology
I care about the beings the technology
is is absolutely incredible but I care
about the beings and to me is we have to
every single time we hear anyone talking
about this phenomena as as far as who is
this. Okay. And you know we also hear it
from the vice president says maybe
they're demons or we're hearing all
sorts of things. This is not one
species.
This is not one type. So if if there's
one thing that I remembered
when I left all this and I said there
will there will be no answers
not just not because it's hard to get an
answer it's because we can't even get an
answer out of humans. Imagine our spemag
Imagine one species has multiple
agendas. Now imagine multiple species
with multiple agendas. And there are
some of these species that have
technology that render them independent
of all authority.
Never forget that if they can bend
space, time, and gravity, they are no
longer relying on an authority. They can
do whatever they want. It is literally
the power of the universe in your hand.
So, we should never forget that not only
are we not alone, but there's a lot out
there and they're not all the same.
Yeah. Um, I think Lynal and how touched
on this once and I thought it was a
really interesting concept, but she said
that, you know, what if some of these
aliens are impersonating other aliens?
>> Also, it's a good that's like,
>> you know, I wasn't ready for that.
>> Blows your mind, right? [laughter]
>> Ready for that.
>> Yeah. being a reality. But of course it
could be.
>> Why not? You know, if you're sitting
here being like, "Ah, the grays hurt
me." And you're like, "No, the grays are
benevolent." Yeah, it's cuz you got the
those weren't grays. Those were the mant
putting a mental projection of the grays
in your head. They were working
alongside the and you're like, "I don't
know where to go with this stuff."
>> That's exactly what uh what do you call
it? Uh think about Travis Walton. You
know, there's there's like two different
beings in the same crowd.
>> Or are they two different?
>> Are they two different or are they the
same and one made himself look like he
was? How do we How do we know? Yeah. So
strange.
>> Yeah.
>> And the last one here by Stan B. Great
questions, by the way. Always great
questions.
>> Yes.
Does Muon get told to keep certain cases
quiet if they could be revealing secret
military craft?
>> Well, I will I will say um
public like the the right answer is no.
Okay. And I'm pretty sure that 99% of
muon people, individuals at at the head
office and around all of the muon uh
offices around the world would say no.
Uh but when I was there, I I had a bad
feeling about certain people that were
in charge of Muon at the time and I did
not trust them at all. and my uh my six
sense ended up being pretty accurate. So
yeah, I would be uh I would be very
cautious with any organization that is
uh in charge of getting all information
on UFOs or flying saucers or aliens or
anything like that. to me. Uh there's
that's that's like the the that's 100%
where if I were an
>> it's a funnel.
>> If I h if I was the intelligence
community,
>> I would 100% infiltrate that 100%.
>> We can assume they h I mean like
absolutely
>> they have their they have their claws
and everything. Absolutely. whether it's
you know TV whatot
>> and I don't have any evidence of it so
it sounds like conspiratorial but
>> I don't care
>> to some level even if it's not part
participatory even if it's only
monitoring yeah
>> do you know what I mean like for
national security purposes if you
believe that the phenomenon is real
>> and if you believe that the government
is aware of the phenomenon then you have
to also believe that the government is
aware of things investigating the
phenomenon Absolutely. And it's a
natural conclusion.
>> And I don't know if you know about the
I'm sure you do, but you know the story
about Robert Bigalow and
>> Muon.
>> No.
>> So there's a there's in the past uh
Robert Bigalow gave Muon a lot of money
and the caveat to it was he was going to
receive all the case information before
everybody else.
>> What a baller move.
>> So, you know, I mean that that I know
was was true. And we know Bigalow's
ties. So,
>> yeah. So, who knows, right? Like, so is
it is it always the same groups? Is it
different groups? Is it is it a moving
machine? Is it fluid?
>> Yeah, that's the thing. Um, but the to,
you know, to maybe counteract that a
little bit, they never seemed to need
muon.
>> No, they didn't.
>> They were first on the scene.
>> Yeah, absolutely. In most cases, you
know, somebody would be out at night
smoking a cigarette at 2:00 in the
morning, see a giant craft over their
head, and the first thing in the
morning,
>> they haven't told anybody.
>> Yeah. And they're there,
>> and someone's like, "You didn't see
anything."
>> Absolutely.
>> Yeah. Which by the way brings me to to
close this off by saying I believe that
somebody
in the I I believe that the T ETSs or
this technology I don't know who it is
but I believe that that technology
uh which I also believe ended up in the
hands of some human component of society
whether it be government contract
whoever it is humans got their hands on
it has some type of radar are that can
perceive consciousness,
not just little pieces of metal in the
sky.
>> Mhm.
>> I think they can read people.
>> Sure.
>> I think I think that
>> Yeah. I would also go on a limb and say
that I'm pretty sure they have tech that
can predict interactions
>> to a very high degree.
>> Yeah.
um using some type of quantum interface
using some type of probability generator
and it is highly accurate. I'm pretty
sure that that's you know well we talk
when we talk about looking glass and
this type of stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> You know I had a guy reach out and he he
left a message on one of these episodes
>> and I followed up with him
>> and you know he said hey u I'm so and so
and I work for an unagnowledged special
access program. And I was like, "Okay,
interesting." And he's um, you know,
he's he's a contractor. He's not in the
military or anything.
>> And so he's like, "I don't want to come
forward because we don't have the same
protections." And not that those
protections work for military people,
let's be honest. But he said, uh, you
know, he gave me this like really crazy
story of how he was in a skiff and like
this being appeared and like whatever.
But then he goes,
"We have stuff
that
I got to be careful." Uh, and I'm I'm
pretty sure he told me things that like
cuz I I told him, by the way, I was
like, "Please do not tell me anything
you're not allowed to tell me,
>> right?
>> I don't want to be in trouble. I don't
want you to be in trouble and let's just
keep everything overboard here."
Absolutely. And I was very very cuz I
the last thing I want to do again is be
a target for national security and end
up like one of these scientists. You
know what I mean? Like why?
>> Yeah.
>> Um so you know I want to I want to do it
in the way that that actually helps
people.
>> So I said can you please just tell me in
the best way that you can without
>> giving anything away that would like
give you away or give away the project
or what you guys are doing? And he goes
yeah. And this is what he told me. He
goes,
"The systems that we have," he's he
goes, "I think are of non-human origin."
And I go, "Why do you think that?" Like,
"Why do you what what makes you so,
>> you know, convinced of that?" And he
says, "Uh, they're predictive."
Um, he goes, "We were aware of like an
incursion from an enemy
>> three hours before." And this is before
the enemy even knew that they were going
to go.
>> Yeah. And I go, "Oh, yeah, that sounds
like alien tech for sure." But it also
sounds like some predictive quantum
computer. Like if you think of quantum
computing and how we're trying to get
there know that the government, whatever
we're doing right now, they're 30 years
ahead. Exponentially exponentially
speaking in technology, 30 years is a is
a million years.
>> Absolutely. you know, in in in in time
>> I mean
>> uh given to so
>> they're for sure dabbling with this
stuff. So whether it's derived from NHI
or not, it certainly feels that way to
us now, you know. So I do think that
yeah, they have something
>> I I will say this to that specifically
about that which could be something
maybe related to looking glass and that
he figured something out. But uh if you
think about it, and I was even saying
this on Rogan when I was on the show,
and it's I'm going to go into a little
bit more detail here, but if you have a
computer system, the computer system,
whether it's a quantum computer or not,
it is computing. A computer system does
just that. It computes. It has a a
million trillion operations that it has
to compute to provide you some type of
data, right?
Everything has to do with speed.
Everything has to do with time. We are
constantly trying to make that computing
faster.
>> Yeah.
>> That way we have an answer faster,
right? Because that's what it's all
about. That's the reason why we haven't
gotten to interstellar travel is because
we're still not fast enough in
computing.
If you have a technology like they had
at S4 where if you consider the reactor
which is being utilized for propulsion
purposes but could be utilized for other
reasons as well. Y
>> so they had looking glass and sidekick
and if you consider looking glass it's
time dilation
>> or it's it's
>> the observation
>> the observation of time dilation.
If you are able to integrate that
technology in a computer,
not in a traveling in a computer,
if the candle froze at S4, but you could
still see the photons. If there's a
black hole because you can remove light
and there's no nothing happening there.
If the mechanical watch that was put by
the emitter stops ticking because it
stops time,
could we not
utilize the technology to create the
fastest computer ever where it will
predict the future simply because it's
stopping time. So something that would
need 18 million years to compute can
happen instantly with something like
this into integrated.
>> Yeah. Time isn't
>> time doesn't count anymore.
>> So I certainly believe that they messed
with that because it's an incredible
[snorts] weapon.
>> Yeah. It's it's it's a quantum computer.
>> Absolutely. and and uh you know
explaining a quantum computer
>> to someone 100 years ago
>> would look like oh a looking glass.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
>> Stare into the magical mirror.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> That's what it would look like.
>> Absolutely.
>> All right. Luigi Venitali. Thank you so
much. Um also I want to do something.
Let me know if you this is okay. I I
thought u maybe we do like a giveaway or
something for for let's do it
>> for some of the people listening some of
the members here cuz you know you guys
are always
>> chiming in and I want to give you guys
an opportunity. So what do you say like
um
>> you got you got some posters?
>> Absolutely. We'll give posters.
>> Okay. Um so if you guys want to Oh
>> oh timing
>> timing.
>> Wow. That's cool.
>> Um if you guys want to win some posters
uh first of all you got to be a member.
Uh, so it's it's a members thing over
here and just leave a comment. I'll
grab, you know, some of you there and
then we'll uh we'll send you we'll hook
you guys up with some uh S4 posters
courtesy of Luigi and S4 the Bobar
story. Go check it out. Go check out
>> uh wana we are not alone.com. It's a
very exciting platform. I'm looking
forward to helping being a part of it
but also seeing it grow. I think it's
really great and uh thanks so much for
your time Luigi.
>> Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Heat.
Heat. [music]