You have one of the most extraordinary
stories of anyone I know.
>> Be sure to tell me the whole story.
>> By all accounts, I was a normal person.
Life was great. Things were working out
well in my favor. And then things took a
turn.
Early 2023, I began to unravel.
This was like very brutal PTSD level of
flashbacks.
I was remembering and having nightmares
of being in the labs, being surrounded
with people. I was completely removed
from the public school system for
multiple years of my life.
Shovels marked the start of construction
of the new $16 million facility at Baker
Victory Services.
I was in the gate classroom. I drank the
pink drink. It's just that there was a
progression of more.
And what sort of experiments would they
have you do? And what would they test
you on?
>> These UAP, UFO, other materials. They're
not flown with joysticks. They're flown
through the mind.
I would lay in a deep meditation. I
would have some type of sedative and
shift my consciousness into set object
or some vehicle and become it.
Pilot it up and down, move it left and
right. From what I understand, what they
were trying to do is build a brain
neural interface that would reproduce
the brain wave signals that I was
sending out. So then you could boil it
back down to someone with a controller.
>> That is wild.
>> The people in the program had this
thing. They called it a relic. And
sitting at the center of the coffee
table, it's a literal crystal orb. But
the inside of this orb was alive. Whoa.
And as I locked eye contact with it, the
inside structure, it adapts and it like
changes. Oh my god. And it's almost as
if this object as I'm looking at it is
now looking back at me. Right?
Consciousness is actually the root of
disclosure. It's you,
>> your disclosure, consciousness,
awareness, the fact that the world is
not as we see it. It's constantly
evolving. Like that's the epitome of
disclosure.
>> Ignition sequence start.
>> How is this possible?
>> Nothing too unusual about that. Their
existence cannot longer be denied.
There's a state that researchers call
hypnogogia. That threshold between
waking and sleep where the brain is
doing something genuinely unusual. It's
where a lot of people report their most
vivid experiences. the kind of thing
that comes up in remote viewing
accounts, other altered states research,
and some of the most fascinating
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Jordan Jose, it is an honor to have you.
You have one of the most extraordinary
stories of anyone I know and you've
turned some very dark things uh in your
childhood and life into a very positive
mission and message. And uh I think
you're remarkable and I'm I'm just
honored uh because I know it's not easy
for you to to do this and to tell your
story that you are are are doing this on
on our show. It means a lot to me.
>> Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on,
Jesse. Uh this show's been a long time
coming and I'm uh just as honored to be
uh in the position here to present it
with you.
>> The the honor is mine. Um why don't we
back up to 2023
uh because you were uh by all accounts a
normal and very high functioning
successful person. Uh do you want to
describe just like give a snapshot of
your life at the time?
>> Yeah. Yeah definitely. Uh so 2023 I was
a very normal run-of-the- person. Uh I
was a serial entrepreneur. So I had some
successful ventures in business. Uh I
worked in the treecare industry. I was
working in kind of applied agentic AI uh
in late 2023.
>> It's early for agentic AI.
>> Very early, very early. We were doing
some cool things with wildfire
prevention and um uh very cool just like
next generation research to help utility
companies. Super proud of um what I was
doing at the time. And um yeah, by all
accounts outside looking in as well as
from the inside looking at myself, uh I
was a normal person. uh success driven,
life was great, things were working out
well in my favor. Um and then as you
know, things took a turn.
Um things took a turn when I kind of
went through some personal struggles. Uh
was going through some relationship
challenges, was also working in the
startup field. So just very high stress.
Uh, and getting into like late 2022,
early 2023,
um, just with some triggering things in
normal life, I began to unravel, for
lack of a better word, um, and unravel
in a sensation that brought back, uh,
what I could only describe as childhood
memories that I had not previously
recollected. I was remembering a life
that didn't feel like mine.
>> Um, and it wasn't just like simply, hey,
uh, I was remembering something all of a
sudden. This was like very brutal PTSD
level of flashbacks. Uh throwing myself
out of bed with nightmares. Um after
this kind of triggering moment just
where work was boiling up against my
relationship um changes. All of it came
flooding back to where I was remembering
things that like I couldn't place in
linear time. Uh so I didn't know what
was going on. I thought like, hey, did I
just draw the crazy straw? Did something
happen to me psychologically? Uh so I
did what a normal person would do,
right? Like went out, sought help, um
started working with therapists and
began to figure out that what I was
recalling uh was actually dissociated
parts of my childhood.
>> Wow. And prior to that, what had you
kind of conceived of when it came to
your childhood? Did you have this kind
of linear full memory of it?
>> Not at all. But in that same respect, um
how many people really think about their
childhood, right? Like do you remember
your childhood when you were leaving?
>> No. It's funny. I was just recounting
like my you know elementary school
teachers and it was a struggle but I was
like able to like do it but it's not
something that's top of mind.
>> Exactly. Yeah. And that was my same
experience with it too. It was like I
thought uh to the best of my knowledge I
lived a very normal life. Um you know
grew up in a small rural town. Uh things
were just normal for me for lack of a
better word and graduated high school.
uh went on to be a very uh
successoriented person, beat cancer at a
very young age at um age 20.
>> That's amazing.
>> And then yeah, just just went off. I was
just um uh like a hardworking committed
individual and life was good.
>> Um and then the memories started like I
said and these memories weren't typical
memories. These weren't even necessarily
memories of just what someone would
consider like abuse or something that um
you know our brain from an aspect
protecting us from trauma would hide.
They were simply things that I didn't
even have the vernacular to articulate.
So I was remembering and having
nightmares of being in labs um being
surrounded with people that I learned to
recognize and learn to actually remember
names. And um all this went on for about
a period of about 2 months where I was
having severe PTSD, remembering all
these um childhood experiences, lab
settings, things I didn't have the
vocabulary for. And then I eventually um
just began investigating my own past
because uh at a certain amount of volume
of this, at a certain amount of wow, I'm
a grounded individual. I can journal
about this. I'm not making this up. What
is this? Uh I began to look into my own
past. And what I found uh was that I was
completely removed from the public
school system for multiple years of my
life. Uh my parents were told a story
that was not essentially what happened
to me in person. Uh and upon leaving the
program that I was admitted into, I lost
all memory of those experiences until
they resurfaced in 2023.
>> That's remarkable. Um so you mentioned
memories of being in a lab. Now having
pieced together what your childhood
actually was. What happened? Yeah. Yeah.
So, basically in 2004 2005, um I was
tested by gifted and talented education.
People may have heard the gate or the
tag claims. Um I was tested with what
was the Woodcock test of achievement. Um
it's basically like a neuroscychological
testing platform and I was testing
incredibly gifted in certain categories.
Uh primarily there was a huge split
between my verbal and non-verbal um
learning sections. Uh but otherwise
normal kid right I was not diagnosed
autistic I was not diagnosed with
psychological problems I was
run-of-the-mill very normal but highly
gifted uh when it came to some of my
applications in academia uh that started
this runaway process where a team of
psychologists
um which again names records all this is
documented uh but just to leave some
anonymity here in in hopes that there is
some justice later on in life uh a team
of psychologists uh began this
relationship working with me actually
coming into the school system around
2005 to better understand how my brain
worked. Um in reality as a young child
uh this was all around the fourth grade
so I'm about age nine now uh I was being
told to not tell anyone about this. I
was being told that you know I was a
very special kid. I had a very special
brain and no one else would understand.
Uh so essentially what this started was
gate was this identifier that said hey
there's something very special that's
happening with me. Uh after that
happened a whole bunch of psychologists
began a routine of working with me not
from the school system but coming into
the school system and essentially
started this like internal grooming
process with me where I would be
separated and basically uh encouraged to
keep this a secret as this progression
happened. So that carried on for a few
years and if you can imagine like take
yourself back to elementary school. Um I
didn't really know what to make of this.
It was just a lot of testing. There
wasn't necessarily anything bad
happening to me.
>> Would they come to class and just kind
of pluck you from class or
>> I would get removed from class. So a
phone call would come in. Hey Jordan's
got to come down to, you know, so and
so's office. Um and that's where I would
spend maybe, you know, six hours or
sometimes a full day.
>> And where did you grow up?
>> Springville, New York.
>> Okay. Yep. Small rural town in Western
New York, upstate area. Um, very small,
like graduating class of about 120 kids.
>> And you're like what, like 10 years
oldish?
>> Yep. Started around age nine. And for
the course of this, as I kind of
described, this was between the ages of
nine and 14.
>> Okay. And so when you say, you know,
kind of they're saying, Jordan, we want
to know how your brain works. And that,
you know, you mentioned the word
grooming. What exactly are they doing?
>> Yeah. So they were very interested. So,
a a couple things that I can kind of um
you know, give some more context on.
One, I I was testing very highly in
these um certain categories. Two, I had
a very um kind of strong ability to
visualize. So, for example, like at age
nine, one of the things that these
psychologists were fascinated about was
my ability to spell because I was
spelling at like a college level.
>> And for me, I had this ability to where
I could just visualize a word, right?
So, it was just kind of in my mind's
eye. I didn't know. I thought every kid
did this, right? I could picture a word
in my mind and then break apart the
letters piece by piece. And as I would
tell these psychologists this, they were
trying to understand how I was
exhibiting some of these behaviors. Like
they knew what was happening. They were
fascinated by it, right? The the ability
to visualize was something that was a
strong point of the later parts of the
program that I progressed into. But at
this point, it was just mainly, hey, we
want to understand how you're doing some
of these things. your testing very
specific. Um, sit with us, build a
relationship with us. Uh, and as this
progressed,
>> what was happening to me is I was kind
of becoming more and more isolated from
the rest of the kids, the rest of my
teachers. Um, as you know, you can kind
of look in my investigation level of
this. My teachers were not told what was
going on either, right? Nor was the full
category given given to the school
district. Um, it just looked like I had
a bunch of absences. I was being pulled
from classes. No one really knew who was
pressing the button, right? Who really
was the psychologist, who sent them,
etc.
>> Um, all of this continued within the
public school system to where I was just
being tested. Um, relationship was being
formed until about like age 12, so
getting into like sixth, seventh grade,
I began to recognize that like something
wasn't right here,
>> you know? Uh, the rest of my friends
weren't doing this. Uh, I wanted to kind
of go be normal. I didn't get what any
of this was going for. Um, and at the
same time as I was kind of like pushing
back almost with these people that were
coming in to meet with me. Um, my mother
and father at the time, you know, were
basically told that I needed to leave
the public school system. And it wasn't
because I was a special kid. Uh, it was
because I had grown so unstable that I
could no longer be in the public school
system. And essentially a whole mental
health diagnosises overlay um came on
board around like 2010 that provide the
justification to remove me from the
public school system whether my parents
wanted it or not. And that started um my
basically academic attendance in this
2-year program outside of the public
school system.
>> But to back up real quick, you were
fine.
>> I was fine. I was fine. Yeah, I was
fine. the the mental health thing was a
cover for them to remove you. It was an
excuse. Yep.
>> And how did your parents react to all of
this?
>> Uh terrified. My my mother at the time
was trying to remove me uh you know from
the school district, not having luck. Uh
we tried to move at one point, didn't
have luck. Uh I was refusing to go to
school at one point and you know people
from the school district were actually
showing up and removing me from the
house. Like it was Stranger Things level
stuff.
>> That's insane. It really is like the
show Stranger Things in real life which
is based on the Montalk experiment. I
think a lot of people at this juncture
in the interview are probably resonating
with some of the stuff you're saying
there. There plenty of gate kids out
there and this seems like the initial
layers of of of you know what you've
experienced. you experience much deeper
stuff. But, you know, there are people
out there who have they have to take the
pink drink and they, you know, missed a
they have a year gap in their knowledge
of their elementary school. And
>> so,
>> 100%. Yeah. 100%. And and for those
kids, right, the other gay people, you
know, what I'm ultimately describing is
like gate serves as this kind of like
outside edge almost recruitment, right,
or almost like identifying mechanism. So
so many people are tested within gifted
and talented education. Not everyone
progresses in further. So like for
example, as I'm meeting with all these
psychologists early years, I was
enrolled at gate, right? Like I was in
the gate classroom. I drank the pink
drink. It's just that there was a
progression of more. And then getting up
to this part of the story in 2008,
this was like the public school system
and the gate classroom could no longer
provide the cover for what they wanted
to do experimentation wise. So to do
that, you remove that person from that
area. You provide some cover
justification on why you're doing that.
And that game began a two-year journey
to where I attended school into a uh
nondescript uh since been shut down,
sued six ways to Sunday uh school that
was from the outside serving neurode
divergent um and behavioral health kids
uh but on the inside was supporting um a
mission for defense contractor research
for psychic potential uh development.
>> Okay. Wild. What's the name of that
facility?
>> Yeah. Yeah. uh no longer exists now, but
at the time it was called Baker Victory
Services.
>> This center provides specialized
services for students with autism or
cognitive disabilities paired with
mental health diagnosis.
>> So on the outside looking in this
facility was serving autistic kids,
non-verbals, um other people with
behavioral health. They had nurses,
psychologists, psychiatrists all on
staff in this school. Think like special
education, 811 classroom, only 40 kids
total in the facility. So just like
highly structured support.
>> Golden shovels marked the start of
construction of the new $16 million
facility at Baker Victory Services.
>> A lot of people watching, they might be
thinking, "Okay, this Baker Victory
Services, I'm going to go search it."
They search it and they see this
organization that seems to still be
operational today. What's going on with
that?
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's a really good question.
So, Baker Victory Services still exists
today. It's a much larger organization
serving a lot of other purposes which
are like good, right? The organization
itself was not the problem. It was the
exact location and kind of the element
that I was in. So, if you want the exact
address, like it's very hard to dig up
cuz facility is closed today, but it was
like 650 Ridge Road. It was a small
non-escript building that was known as a
day treatment center. 650 Ridge Road,
>> right?
>> And that was like a subsidiary of this
Baker Victory Services.
>> Correct.
>> Got it. So, it's almost like that was
used as a shell for this other kind of
rogue cutout organization.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Now you're talking and again
like even in that facility, legitimate
things happening, right? Legitimate
treatment happening for kids that needed
it. Um, however, there was just this
rogue element that was operating out of
it that supported the program that I was
involved with. But even with open source
research, you do get hints of some
malfeasants, right?
>> Yeah. I mean, you can like it's not hard
to find, right? I think like the
supervisor was arrested like 210
felonies, I think the news article
reads, for uh like article manipulation
and record manipulation. Um there's a
$100 million lawsuit that got settled
due to just this huge uh claim of sexual
abuse over the years. OLV Human Services
says three employees at the Victory
Learning Center in Lacawana are now on
leave over those allegations of
physically mistreating students. Um, I
like to say there's a lot of smoke,
right? You don't really necessarily need
to find the fire. You can just look and
see that there's been a history of
problems at the place.
>> That's a lot of smoke. $100 million
lawsuit over sexual abuse and uh 210
felonies and falsifying records. We have
a model that works for these young
people and it allows them to be the best
they can be and go on and leave lives
just like you and I.
>> You know what this looked like is, you
know, I would attend school like a
normal kid um for like two to three days
a week and then for the other two to
three days a week depending on that I
was working heavily with a team of
psychologists, researchers,
psychiatrists um onto some of the tasks
that we can get into. So you're you're
you're at this facility and they're
they're they've kind of realized that
you're really talented even within this
kind of group of neurode divergent kids
and then they take you down to this this
basement and what are they doing there
as opposed to kind of the the the top
level? Yeah. So when I first got into
this um you know facility at the time
for like there was a period about like
two to 3 months where like things were
normal where I wasn't doing the
extracurricular you know ESP exercises
um the weird psychologists that were
coming to see me in the public school
system were gone and no longer seeing
me. So at the time I was like I'm
rescued right the weird stuff has
stopped. Um 2 months later a team of
interns get hired and this team of
interns specifically work on me in my
case.
>> Um and the same process that I described
like in the public school system uh kind
of restarts. So new person comes in uh
positions himself as a psychologist and
as a therapist um you know and begins
working with me to better understand my
relationship with what we called at the
time ESP.
And do you remember their names or
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh without, like I
said, uh you know, I'm very hopeful
that, you know, our establishment, our
government will do something from an
investigation standpoint, uh you know,
if they're willing to really take a stab
at this. Uh but let's call it Meg. Meg
was my one-on-one trainer uh/ther
therapist.
>> Okay. And you've provided this
information, by the way, to the Senate
Select Intelligence Committee. Is that
right? I've provided this information
to, you know, past members of Senate
Select Intelligence Committee. I've
provided it to uh numerous three-letter
agencies. I've briefed them, given them
the locations, the names, etc. Uh
throughout my tenure of really working
in the background of disclosure um
fighting the good fight alongside guys
like David Grush and etc. Um and to this
point, nothing has happened. That's
really frustrating and annoying and
hopefully after this episode something
does happen. But uh um so this Baker
Victory Services, this organization,
it's also a Catholic church or it's
affiliated with the Catholic Church.
>> Yeah, affiliated affiliated by it. So
there was the I believe it's termed the
Father Baker organization uh in Western
New York. So just think like Catholic
nonprofit, you know, doing like good
things. Um, this was meant to serve more
of the foster home community as well as,
you know, just develop um, uh, a
community resource for kids that weren't
plugging well into the public school
system. So, it was a little bit normal
where you may see like nonprofits step
into like special education, get
accredited to like support the school
system. Um, so it wasn't like a literal
Catholic school or Catholic church. It
just uh more or less organizationally
existed within that umbrella.
>> Gotcha. And so they realize, okay,
Jordan, you are like extremely talented
at some of this, you know, extra sensory
perception stuff. They take you to the
basement and what what happens there?
>> Yeah. I don't I don't want to make it
sound too Stranger Things, like it
wasn't like going to the basement. Um,
you know, like the facility itself,
right, super nondescript, didn't look
like a school. You never know it was
there. Um, you know, like 2008, highly
secure. like the entire thing uh had
components that would be like comparable
to what people have called like a skiff
before, right? Uh so badge in, badge
out, RFID everywhere. Uh no electronics,
you know, in the building even as a kid,
right? Couldn't bring your PSP in. You
couldn't bring a Faraday cage
>> completely high level of security at
this place. and and I can kind of get
into to some more levels of security
that I experienced, you know, as a kid
because as I'm telling this, you know,
I've gotten to a point of of healing and
integration. Um, and now, as you know,
right, like trying to fight the good
fight to do better about this. Uh, but
like don't mistake the um, you know,
level of like healing that I've done to
uh, you know, really reflect like the
terror that actually this whole entire
experience was like in childhood. um you
know essentially it was like being stuck
in a um you know a facility where you
had no control right there were things
very akin to I don't want to really say
torture but you know in some respects um
being given medications and substances
and things that I don't even know um for
purposes of experimentation like that's
a problem you know that's a big problem
>> it's a huge problem well it's a it's a
huge problem uh for this to happen to
you over multiple years and for them to
kind of be grooming you at your school
and for your parents to push back to the
point of wanting to move and take you
out of the school system and for them to
keep coming back like the levels of
coordination implied here are deep deep
level you know and and it's even beyond
that like I can tell um you know later
in the story I I'll get into some
examples of like well hey if you were a
kid why didn't you try to you know do
something about this I did right it's
like many times um in in some of the
more like rigorous experiments, I would
like get out, call 911 from the school
facility, but the lines were surveiled.
>> So, you would get through to 911 and
then immediately an operator would take
over and be like, "Hey, sorry. Someone
from the school, one of the kids is like
prank dialing 911." So, there was like
no way in or out of any of this. Also,
you're a kid and when you're a kid, you
you can get conditioned into, you know,
feeling some sort of Stockholm syndrome
and you're told, "Oh, no, we're doing
this for your benefit or whatever."
You're really highly impressionable. And
>> uh you mentioned too that they gave you
there's like this critical window of he
heightened kind of extra sensory
perception ability and it's before
puberty and they would give you puberty
blockers to sort of enhance this. There
was all sorts of stuff being
administered to me while I was in there.
Um, you know, like on paper, right? Like
so looking back on my own records like
there were I I think over a dozen
anti-csychotics that I was on during
these like two years. So things like
Hald, Zolaf, like just just to name a
few. Just a ridiculous amount of
medications. That does not reflect what
was being administered inside the
facility that my parents didn't know
about. There were other things that I
was being taken. And there was other
things for specific uh sessions right
that would be given that I don't even
know um you know when it comes to the
the level of like hey there's some sigh
or you know some ability within our
brains in a prepubescent era um yeah
that was communicated to me um and I
believe it has something to do with
relation of our like right and left
hemispheres before they're fully formed
uh during puberty but I think
essentially it's just uh at that younger
age I had a um an ability to essentially
exert more than someone else that was an
adult.
>> And what sort of experiments would they
have you do and what would they test you
on?
>> So a lot of the testing we can kind of
think it this started off very baseline
of like ESP, right? So kind of like
thinking about extra sensory perception
and how that would show up for for
people. Um and I was told from like a
number one day like you can just think
of all this this was like ESP training
is what essentially um you know was
happening to me there uh for the idea of
this later being utilized in like a
defense establishment um you know style
uh progression funnel
>> uh but you know in the beginning right
ESP and it's highly structured for each
person and that's what I would be told
right uh like for example they would be
giving me a lot of tests and a lot of
experiments and like seeing how I
respond respond uh or seeing how I would
apply this because there was no like uh
rubric or there was no like cheat sheet
on like you do the same thing every time
and it works the same way for everyone.
I was instead told that everyone's
highly unique and you need to kind of
develop your own way of doing this. Uh
once you have your own way of doing
this, we'll help you uh amplify it,
right? That's kind of a way to think
about that. So for example, a lot of the
very early on sessions um would be
understanding my abilities. How are they
showing up from a cognitive perspective?
Did I process information more
kinesesthetically? Right? Like was it
more I feel things in my body? Was I
processing it more auditory? Right? Like
hey telepathy I hear it, right? Um or in
my case, I was a highly visual person,
right? So I had the ability to get out
of my body, see in the other room, see
things from um you know a distance,
right? And kind of shift my awareness uh
visually. So for the progression of most
of the time in these two years, I was
highly working on visual abilities.
>> So sort of similar to remote viewing
programs or you know astral projection
or or out of body uh things like that.
>> 100%. Yeah. So, we were we were doing a
lot different stuff than like you'll see
from like the Stanford Research
Institute or like the Stargate um area
where you see a lot of like CRV
techniques, right? Like control,
repeatable, follow a technical process.
Um I was given a whole kind of different
regiment of like training and teaching
that kind of relied primarily on getting
our subconscious mind to believe that
something was possible. And I can kind
of go into this in a little bit more
detail. So for like a typical remote
viewing exercise, you're given a target.
You may have a protocol. Maybe you're
doing some meditation or some, you know,
bilateral simulation or auditory stuff
to help you uh take information out of
that target. You might see it visually,
you might see it otherwise. Otherwise,
you're taking information, you know,
kind of from the field. Um, in my
training, they were more interested with
uh getting me to subconsciously believe
that awareness is essentially the
substrate of this entire universe. And
our awareness can shift into any other
piece of awareness in this underlying
universe. So what this would mean is
like instead of trying to remote view
into a room or let's say I remote viewed
into a hallway but I was having issues
getting through a door um there was a
lot of subconscious uh training to
basically help me understand that my
awareness could become the door. I could
become the room. I could become the
filing cabinet where the documents are
in and then extract the information that
way. So it was a lot less viewing. It
was a lot more manipulating your own
awareness to become the things that we
see in the universe.
>> That's fascinating. So, it's almost like
a pansychist worldview or something
where maybe everything is somewhat
conscious or everything is at least
awareness and you can port your own
awareness into what we think of as even
inanimate unconscious objects.
>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the
underlying substrate of the universe as
we want to take it back whether it's
awareness or it is this undefined
substrate. It is accessible, malleable
and reflexive to awareness. So you can
either a place your awareness in it or
you could perhaps exert some control by
shifting your awareness toward
>> it's either a possible vessel for
awareness or it's awareness itself or
it's it's somehow compatible with
awareness.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I tell this story too
for a lot of people like you know as we
get into like consciousness research.
Now I often use the analogy that like
consciousness uh you can perceive more
as like a vehicle. Imagine a car, four
tires, right? And a steering wheel and
and that's how you can kind of think of
consciousness. It's like the vehicle
that gets driven. However, awareness is
actually what's sitting in the driver's
seat of the car, right? So a lot of
things can hold consciousness,
>> but awareness is actually that kind of
like universal substrate of like the is
um and when you follow that perception
better, you can kind of better
understand well like how could you get
out of your body? How could you shift
into something? Well, it's actually not
necessarily consciousness. It's like
that's the holder and the vehicle and
the container, but there's awareness.
That's a step deeper.
>> Fascinating. So what sort of
specifically they would say okay remote
view what's in the other room or would
they give you a target like in you know
we hear about in kind of traditional
military remote viewing programs?
>> Yeah all all sorts of different all
sorts of different exercises. Uh I would
be given targets. A lot of this was like
testing right. So, it's like there there
were in in terms of like the regimented
aspect, like they did have these
exercises kind of mapped out. Um, for a
lot of the remote viewing or like the
astral projections, the way that we were
doing it, like I just described, we were
actually doing it with a partner. So,
like Meg in that example would often
like walk through what we called the
relaxation exercise, right? But in
reality, it was some type of auditorial
stimulation, right? the headphones,
different binaural beats that were
helping me access, you know, different
brain wave states. Um, and then, you
know, Meg would have essentially kind of
like a checklist, right? And this
checklist was to get my subconscious
mind to relax. This would be like, hey,
we are um we're flying a plane. You
don't have to worry about flying the
plane. All you need to do is tell me
what you see. Right? So I would be you
know continuously walked down through a
state of consciousness to where you know
I was outside of my body and there was
like a partner duo team of coaching of
giving inputs on like I need you to go
here what do you see right and then
where that actually served a huge
benefit is like um in traditional remote
viewing right it's very common for a
remote viewer to like get to a certain
point and just hit a roadblock and just
be like I can't get through this but if
you have someone else in the experience
ience with you, you can kind of riff on
each other, right? So you can think of
other out ofthebox solutions to get your
awareness to the target or wherever
you're trying to go. So everything that
we were doing was highly team based. Um
and for most of those two years, right,
this was like um they had some outcomes
that they already knew, right? And this
was kind of tracking my accuracy on how
good I could get.
>> Were they using an EEG to map your
electrical brain signals? So not for
like every remote viewing astral
projection signal but that was a key
part of this uh you know development in
the program. So, uh, you know, earlier
on the chair, right? I I I call it the
chair, but this was where a lot of my
traumatic memories actually like came
back in that earlier 22. Like the ones
that I really didn't understand would be
me in a chair um with what I now know
now as like a neuro feedback EEG
headset, but at the time, right, didn't
have the language to articulate it and a
screen, right, with my brain waves being
shown. And I would be asked to like
cycle through different cognitive
applications like hey visualize
something um or you know try to
communicate you know with the plant
right whatever type of uh you know ESP
level um thing we were doing and they
were watching my brain wave signals
right and then I would be asked at
certain times to be like hey whatever
you just did 2 seconds ago I need you to
repeat that. So they were highly
interested uh in theta spikes as well as
gamma spikes and there was some level of
neuro feedback being used to like
reinforce this. So as I would actually
like exert hey I visualized in a unique
way will that produce a gamma spike they
were interested in how can we get that
to hold longer.
>> Why do you think theta and gamma were
interesting to them? uh just deeper
levels of like neuron level of um uh
like symbiosis like for example like in
a gamma spike or when the brain's really
operating like at a gamma level um it's
almost as if like every neurons
beginning to synchronize and almost fire
at the same time. So instead of just
having a reduced brain wave state,
right? Um you're having essentially like
this is I'm not a neurologist. I'm not a
neuroscientist just to be very clear
here. Uh I'm butchering this up just for
my own understanding. Um but basically I
think that there's a high level of
amplitude when it comes to ESP level
activities when somebody can get into a
gamma state. Yeah, it's a it's extremely
high frequency
>> and like like you know one of the
highest and it's interesting that you
were saying that they wanted you to
access your subconscious. It's almost
like undergirling your conscious
thoughts are these subconscious beliefs.
>> I I don't want to interrupt me. No, just
to add on that. So like that's a huge
key part of like any type of psychic
development. If your subconscious does
not believe that whatever you're doing
is possible, then your conscious mind
will not allow it to be possible. Your
subconscious has to believe it, right?
It's like belief almost equals reality
in this regard. And I think this applies
to like a lot of people when they hear
about psychic phenomena, they hear about
UFOs or UAP. Like there very well may be
a cognitive filter that we don't yet
have mapped, right? Like why do some
people experience some things? Why do
some people see a UAP but some don't?
Right? There might literally be like a
subconscious protective mechanism where
if your subconscious mind doesn't
believe that it's possible, then it's
not going to become possible in your
reality, your experience, your
perception. And I believe that to be
true just because of how much work went
into getting um you know me trained on
the subconscious level. If you can do
this, you can remote view, you can shift
your awareness, you can do all these
things, you have to believe it.
>> One of my favorite quotes is on Reeberg
Sone. uh the eyes can only see what the
mind can comprehend and that's you know
I think this beautiful and very telling
sort of and they do they do these tests
where it's you know did you see the
gorilla walking across the room like you
were counting the amount of dribbles in
the video or whatever and you know
people don't see the obvious thing
because they're not looking for it. So
attention is really important and they
even get into the reticular activation
system in the brain and why that is. Uh
there are all sorts of studies around
that and then hypnosis too. It's like
you can literally you know go to a magic
show and you know somebody will you know
get you into some sort of hypnotized
state on stage or you could see this in
the audience and you say you know hey
you're you're stuck to the floor and all
of a sudden the the person's stuck to
the floor. They they can't move their
arms apart. Um so the subconscious mind
is extremely powerful um as far as you
know how it affects uh your reality and
uh yeah that's interesting. So they're
using BOF feedback almost some sort of
like uh Pavlovian conditioning or you
have this partner who's kind of helping
you get into these states where you can
move around as far as your subconscious
more freely or you can to put it better
you can uh actually change your
subconscious beliefs whereas you're not
you're not getting that deep in sort of
normal conscious awareness. Is that
right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's one way to
think about it. you know, ultimately
like the partner um you know, level
dynamic of this one, it was just kind of
more useful for the training, but two,
right, you had someone else that could
provide a secondary perspective, right?
And like just for the viewer like to
imagine this, like I'm I'm in a deep
relaxed meditative state, right? I'm
probably like in a theta wave state. I
have some level of binaural beats,
right? That are helping me kind of uh
shift my awareness out of body. However,
I'm still able to communicate, right?
like through my mouth, right? I'm not
like in my body. I'm visualizing. I'm
way out here, but the act of talking is
still kind of something that I can do,
right? And from that, I can still hear,
right, the partner uh that's next to me.
That can help me maybe understand here's
a way to think outside of the box. So,
if you get stalled, you're trying to get
into a different place, trying to get
into a different thing, that partner can
give you a secondary perspective that's
useful that you can apply back into the
experience. Um, so you know, different
perspectives are like that was the key
to all of this. Um, so like this this
whole different level of like projection
and viewing. If you could imagine the
way that you viewed whatever you were
viewing, right? Whether that be from the
third person perspective or perhaps like
I used the example before, if you run
into a roadblock, you're trying to see
what's on the other side of a door and
you can't seemingly find a way to get
your awareness there. Well, your
awareness can become that door, right?
Like that's that idea of um you know,
seeing outside the box.
>> And do you get the sense that they want
your skills
at this facility because of their
functional benefit for specific
operations or is it more like let's
train Jordan up to be this child super
soldier psychic? So a as we've like now
seen right in this um you know
disclosure cycle you know the pieces
that have been really held back and for
good reason right because here I am
there's massive human rights violations
um you know but what this was serving
what was this what was I a part of well
I was in a you know psionic development
uh pipeline for legacy program
development so the idea being is I I was
not supposed to leave this program right
this was hey for a few years while your
brain is in the state that we can make
malleable and train before puberty. Um,
we can install these things. We can get
you highly specialized whatever your
specialty is going to be and then later
on you're going to end up you know being
sucked into deeper levels of the legacy
program whether that be you know UAP and
crash retrieval operations or whether
that be hey our remote viewing espionage
or other levels psionic applications. So
this was like one of the aspects of that
pipeline that would have went on to
serve that. What convinces you that this
was sort of a feeder for the UFO Legacy
program? Because I think some people
listening might be like, "Okay, this is
sigh. This is extra sensory perception.
Isn't that wholly separate from, you
know, nuts and bolts, UFOs, reverse
engineering, that sort of thing?"
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're not. uh mainly
because I interacted uh at later stages
with this with um what we consider like
recovered materials. Um other language
used from inside the program were
actually relics. Think of that what you
will. Um but I've told the story
publicly on on a piece of technology
that I interacted with that I'm happy to
kind of tell again here. Um and the
story is is about this piece of tech.
>> Yeah. And this is at the same Baker
facility.
>> Yeah. So this this was brought in. So
this tech whenever we worked with tech
it never existed in the facility. What
would happen is there would be a team
that would bring it in highly
specialized highly structured never see
these people. I wasn't allowed to
interact with them, but essentially it'd
be like eight security personnel and a
huge box, you know, and then I would be
in the room with a team of people
watching me uh and and they were
utilizing me essentially in in the
experience that I'll get to here next uh
to better understand how something
worked uh that wouldn't communicate with
them but would actually communicate
telepathically to people with certain
types of consciousness and I was one of
them. And what we'll find as disclosure
continues or as we already know from
people that have spoken out like Jacob
Barber and others is that consciousness
is actually the root of disclosure.
Consciousness is the root of UAP and UFO
phenomena. It's not necessarily a
materialistic aspect. It's that there's
something uh far more uh whether you
want to consider it dimensional or not
that is taking on materialistic form.
But consciousness is the core piece of
all of it. So you begin to see the world
not necessarily some fixed static
materialistic universe that we live in.
You see it as something that's dynamic,
reflexive, and the underlying substrate
is not materialistic. It's how we
perceive it at our current level of
consciousness.
>> So here's another interesting, you know,
kind of story that ties into this
because in in that program that I worked
on, right, uh we also worked with
something called RNGs, right? a random
number generators. And for those that
aren't familiar, right, it's um you
know, many different ways to build RNG.
Some are better than others. I won't get
into the the details, but just think
random number generator, right? We as in
I would have the ability to influence it
with my thoughts. And this was one of
the ways that they like very early
tested, you know, was this person
psychically active? Could they have an
effect on that field that I'm
describing? And even though this is
technological a random number generator,
there are examples where I personally
and watched other kids push them sigas
sigas of multitudes and held for hours
just by using our thoughts.
>> That's amazing. Yeah. So you can you can
standard deviations of of changes on
these things that are supposed to be
tied to uh random quantum mechanical
events. So things like radioactive
isotope decay or you know double slit
experiment where you'd expect a 50/50 on
you know the left slit the right slit
and you know that is tied to like you
know what's a you know binary computer
where you have ones and zeros and you
can what you're saying is you can affect
it in a really statistically significant
way to get a lot of ones or a lot of
zeros.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's actually like one of
the most fun things to teach. Um, you
know, that that you can actually do this
as an individual. Like you can go find a
flash RNG. You can go find an RNG uh
online. We're building an RNG later in
our app that we'll kind of get to later
in this episode. Um, but you can test
your own ability to do this, right? And
you can figure out and hone in that own
intuitive signal. There's not, again, a
one-sizefits-all that works for
everyone. Some people are like, "Well, I
I kinesthetically imagine myself
vibrating and then the RNG moves." uh
for someone else it's I think of love
right and then the RNG moves like uh
everyone has the kind of their own
unique signals that seem to affect and
have a better relationship with the
field around us but like that's one of
the most interesting things that I think
people when they begin like looking into
sigh or they're hearing about past
psychic stuff they want to see like
there's no data there's no nothing and
I'm not going to say that that proves
some mechanism or some exact connection
of why and how uh but there's definitely
a correlation
>> there's definitely a correlation there's
And there's actually a ton of data.
Yeah,
>> there's a ton of data from the
Princeton, you know, uh, parasychology
lab, the pair lab, the Princeton
engineering and anomalous research lab,
which was founded by Bob John, who was
the dean of the engineering school, who,
you know, uh, a lot of whose, you know,
plasma propulsion exists today in
satellites, was very well respected and
studied this stuff for decades from 78
to 2007 or something, and came out being
like without a shadow of a doubt, this
is real. and he would engage with top
level physicists and they would say
things like, "Oh, what was survivorship
bias and file drawer and you know,
you're you're making this up." And he
would say, "No, look at the data." And
sort of you end up in these sort of
infinite loop things where they say it
can't be. And he was like, "No, it is."
And uh and it's wholly consistent with
the you know, Copenhagen interpretation
of quantum mechanics that the observer
collapses away function. It's just that
the observer we have no model now for
which you know other than uh you know
the uh square of the amplitude which is
you know uh the likelihood the
probability that you get a certain state
we have no mechanistic understanding of
which IEN state which state in a wave
function gets picked but anyway I want I
do want to get back to the core because
we left people very excited I'm sure
about this this relic which was it was
What did it look like exactly?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, my first introduction of
this was actually not in the facility.
Okay. I think that my interaction in the
experience that I'm going to describe
here was highly paramount into me
getting removed from the public school
system and into the facility. Uh it was
almost like a check. But basically, I
had as I described one of those
psychologists, right, that were still
coming to see me in the public school
system. Um, I was taken out and I was
actually brought to his office locally,
right? And as I walked into his office,
right, just think normal blending in
residential neighborhood run-of-the-mill
psychologist. This isn't deep
underground military base. It's just
super run-of-the-mill. Uh, I walk in,
I'm being instructed to, you know, go
see um, uh, you know, go see the doctor.
And as I opened the door, the first
thing that I noticed is like, well, even
before I opened the door in the hallway
leading into where the therapy office
was, I noticed that there was like two
people at the end of the hallway that
I've never seen before, plain closed,
dressed, just like two big dudes. I'm
like, that's weird. And as I they open
the door and I get brought in
immediately there's um my doctor that
the psychologist uh a uh woman that I've
never seen before glasses business
professional dressed uh skirt like uh
wearing uh has a clipboard um and she's
sitting down next to them like on a
couch together.
>> And is this before or after the Baker
Victory services facility?
>> This is this is 3 months before I got
put in a Baker Victory.
>> Okay, got This is 3 months.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, and this is just run-of-the-mill. I
get pulled out of the psychologist, get
pulled out of the school system, going
to see the psychologist, get brought in
the office. This happens. Okay.
>> Uh, so, yep, there's people in the
hallway, never seen before.
>> There's my psychologist. And then
there's also this this female, right?
Clipboard will not make eye contact with
me, like weirdly enough, like won't even
acknowledge my existence. And I I felt
that was like super odd. And then
there's a few other people, a few other
just like big males again like plain
clothed in the room like looking out the
windows. Uh in this office in the center
like think table maybe combined size if
you put these together. Um there's a
table. So couch table people over here.
I'm asked to kind of go take a seat next
to this table. There's what in my young
mind I would call a blanket, right, over
an object that I can't make out over
this like coffee table. Um, looking
backwards now, like the blanket was like
like some type of Faraday shielding,
right? Some type of like electromagnetic
shielding or something. Um, but my
psychologist who I knew, right, begins
talking to me. None of the other people
in the room will talk to me that the
female won't. No one's This is what was
just like very eerie for me at the time.
But the psychologist is like, "Hi,
Jordan." like, hey, we have something
really special for you today. Uh, you
don't have to do anything. Uh, we just
want you to tell us what you think of
something, right? Uh, we're going to
show it to you. Again, you don't have to
do anything. Just tell me what you think
about it, right? And I'm like already
traumatized, nervous. What's happening?
Okay, this again. Uh, so some uh I think
it was the female, she pulls the blanket
or like the Faraday shielding off uh
from the coffee table and sitting at the
center of the coffee table on a
pedestal, right? The like a
three-prongong pedestal is what I would
describe as a think of a wizard's orb.
Like quite seriously, little bit smaller
than a basketball. Has a defined shell.
Clear looking like wizard's ball. Right
now, here's what's unique about this.
Okay, it has a defined shell. Uh, it's a
literal crystal orb, but the inside of
this orb, for lack of a better word, was
alive. So, it had a structure that if
you could imagine almost like um if you
were to imagine Jupiter in your mind and
Jupiter's like swirling atmosphere,
imagine that inside the sphere, but
highly white, highly crystallized,
highly like almost you're looking into a
VVS diamond. It's fractalized. It's
swirling and it's emitting its own light
source. Wow. Right. So, there's this
it's fixed defined shell, crystal orb,
crystal sphere. There is this inside
structure that for I can only really
attribute to it is alive. It it is
alive.
>> How big is it?
>> A little bit smaller than a basketball.
A little bit smaller than a basketball.
So, like, you know, maybe take a quarter
off of your globe on that side.
>> And what color?
>> Uh, think like white diamond.
>> Okay. Uh the color was really hard on
this cuz it was almost like think of
your studio lights almost actually. It
was like this fractalized light uh
inside of it and outside of it. There
wasn't really like a color. It was just
this white pure light. Um and it's
emitting light out of it. Right.
>> What's interesting, the first thing that
I noticed is the psychologist goes like,
"Hey, we want you. You don't have to do
anything. Just tell me what you think
about it." And I look at it, right? So I
actually take my two eyes and I lock eye
contact with this thing. And as I locked
eye contact with it, the inside
structure that I described, right, that
was like fractal eyes, like Jupiter's
atmosphere kind of swirling, it adapts
and it like changes and it's almost as
if this object as I'm looking at it is
now looking back at me, right? So that
is the first thing that I notice. This
happens within like two seconds. Um, and
when that happens, I actually become
like really scared because I also begin
feeling this somatic sensation. Um, I
felt it very much like literally in my
brain where I almost felt like this
thing was coming into me and it and it
made me like terrified. Uh, I didn't
ever feel that sensation. It wasn't
telepathy. It was like, hey, this thing
is almost linking with you is the way
that I actually felt. Uh, and I was just
like highly terrified of it. I noticed
that as I moved my eyes back and forth,
right, this inside structure um was
actually like mirroring my eye movement.
And that lasted for 30 seconds and the
blanket was put back over the thing. And
the psychologist, his words to me were
like, "Wow, you did great. You did
great. You did great. You don't have to
do anything. Um it picks who it likes
and I think it likes you."
Whoa.
Yeah,
>> that is wild.
>> And that was the start of my
relationship with Sylvia.
>> They named the orb Sylvia.
>> It was her name. Yeah, it was her name.
Uh and and and I mean that mainly
because as I later, you know, this
started this relationship to where
essentially the people in the program
had this thing. I don't know where it
came from. I don't know where this
crystal orb came from. I don't it was
never told me the the the sentient
consciousness as I'll get into and
expand as I interact with this never
told me where it was from. Um it it
wasn't like oh we found this from a
spacecraft or we dug this up over
anywhere. I will note that the people
within the program the people that were
actually shephering this thing around
didn't call it tech. They called it a
relic.
>> Called it a relic.
>> Yeah.
>> And they said its name is Sylvia or did
it transmit its name to you? So that was
my first time interacting with it like
locally, right? So it was in the room
with me. I had this really quick like 30
second make eye contact. It looks at me.
I could feel it, right? But like that
was it. That was it. Um now fast forward
like 3 months later, now I'm back in
this facility. Uh I have this trainer
Meg, right?
um as we're exploring ESP um she brings
up like hey I heard you met Sylvia right
and like can you recall that experience
and I was brought into like another
relaxation exercise um
>> she says I heard you met Sylvia
>> that orb thing her name is Sylvia
>> yeah yeah well we to back up there was a
there was some context in that
conversation I heard that you were
introduced to something right and and I
was actually brought uh into like this
relaxation exercise with Meg and she was
like, "Do you know what his name is?"
And as I'm in this relaxation exercise,
um I could take myself out of body and I
almost like make contact. So it's like
as if once I was physically linked with
this, you know, like device, relic,
whatever you want to call it. Um it was
like it developed like a tunnel or a
pathway to where like I could
communicate with it back. And this began
a longer process throughout the program
to where um they wanted to better
understand this thing. So that first
example with Meg, I saw it once
different psychologist office. Now I'm
back here in this whole programatic
environment. Um I was actually asked
what do you think its name is? And I
could uh like take myself into this
astral environment, feel the same energy
from it, and it would show up to me
visually like this very silver
fractalizing type energy. And in one of
the experiences, it was telling me that
his name was Sylvia. So later on, it was
brought back in and I was essentially
like this in between process to better
understand what they couldn't understand
about it, right? So it didn't
telepathically link with anyone else. It
wouldn't talk to anyone else. They
didn't know what this thing was was
basically my understanding. So I would
be given tasks on like, hey, uh, we need
you to go talk to Sylvia and we need you
to come back with like a schematic. We
want you to draw how it works or we want
you to give us a blueprint on how it
works. We need you to ask it these
things. We need you to go back and
forth.
>> Do you remember anything that it
transmitted to you?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Here's the really
interesting things with it, right? So,
here's this crystal orb device, fractal,
right? It was sentient and conscious and
felt alive. It didn't communicate
through mouth. It communicated
telepathically as it would communicate
telepathically. The first and foremost
like the most interesting thing is that
it was feminine, right? So it wasn't
like this is just an interesting dynamic
like it had uh like from an auditory
sensation it had more of a female's
voice. It would describe and introduce
itself to me as more feminine. And I
think this is like really interesting as
we begin thinking about like deep
dimensionality and like metaphysics and
how gender perhaps like scales
throughout dimensions. I don't think it
goes away, right? I think like here this
third dimension human experience it's
like yeah you're male or female, right?
and and fixed or you know some fluidity
in between that but perhaps as you scale
up outside of a body or you're like a
ascended consciousness or wherever
whatever Sylvia is. It's that gender was
more of a spectrum. It wasn't like this
fixed thing. Um and that was be
something that was communicated to me.
Also, um I it was essentially told to me
in one of the earlier sessions that
Sylvia represented more of this thing
that we would equate to like a human
thought form. And in the deepest
communication session that I had with
it, it was being shown to me that like
Sylvia was human thoughts almost. We as
humans, everything we create, everything
we think, everything we're consciously
experiencing takes on some form
somewhere else. And this energy or this
thing is actually very connected to our
own thoughts, right? So, it's like as we
imagine things, maybe they become real,
right? It was kind of like the lesson in
all of this. Um, and then from that
point forward, uh, everything that the
program staff are trying to get out of
it, like, um, how does it work? Jordan,
you know, draw schematics of it. It
didn't want to work with them.
>> So, it would be like they would bring it
in, I would go in with a session,
nothing would really happen and um they
would just get upset with me, like go
back and try again, right? And that was
really, from what I understand, a lot of
the stuff that I interacted with was
like, hey, they were trying to figure it
out. Did do you think it was good, evil?
Did you have any context on how they
acquired it?
>> No idea how they acquired it. It itself,
this is also like very interesting,
right? Like well, hey, like why would
this whatever it is interdimensional
different sentient life thing like why
would it let this happen to you? It was
100% neutral. It is it was the epitome
of like neutrality. Like it it did not
take sides. It didn't like it was just
so neutral is what was interesting. So
which I would think like again as you
you know almost
>> ascend up in like awareness levels you
have to become non-dualistic you have to
become neutral so it was like yeah was
this bad well it looks bad right in that
moment but it's who defines what's good
bad and evil right like there is no
fixed state in duality
>> that is fascinating do you still feel
somewhat entangled with this object
>> uh I don't I don't you know I don't I
it's it's been interesting because um
I'm curious, right? Like I'm curious. Is
it still kicking around some defense
contractors, you know, like bunker? But
I I don't know. Yeah.
>> Do have you ever heard of anything like
it?
>> No. No. I've I've never the the best
comparison also I can kind of give you,
which is interesting, is um what is it?
The Salvatore Deli uh Da Vinci's
painting of Christ, right? If you're
familiar with that. uh in that photo
crisis like holding this crystallized
orb right I believe it's in his left or
his right hand
>> it was very similar like that size
>> right and again more fractalized but I
always find that interesting and because
of the language that was being used as
relic like perhaps this isn't something
from you know NHI or or something that
crashed here like maybe these things
have been here a long time
>> which also ties into thous thousands of
years of esoteric tradition, esoteric
wisdom, right? like we here we are kind
of talking about you know for those that
may not be familiar of this um I worked
very closely uh you know leading up to
Skyatcher uh with Ross Colart and Ross
Colart has reported about this
experience um at Eselin Institute in
California last year big su or 2024
rather where I led a exercise um shared
people the same protocols that I was
taught in childhood of how to make
contact with NHI right and we did it was
incredible We had plasma orbs. We had
essentially these blue orbs that came in
like 50 yards of people like out of the
ocean up through the air. It was it was
amazing. It was the most incredible
thing. And then also like let's think
about a moment like what the shamans
have been talking about for 2,000 of
years. Think about like Native American
indigenous um you know elders, right?
Who have been communicating with like
blue light, you know, for thousands of
years. like all of the parallels are are
are actually beginning to come together
here. So, it's not that this is some
necessarily in my opinion or my
worldview, some extraterrestrial or some
uh you know like very outside the self
level of phenomena. It's that like all
of this is just different slices of the
same pie and consciousness and awareness
is the core of it. M m while you were at
Baker Victory Services, did they ever
have you fly a craft or lock onto a
thing and move it with your
consciousness?
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>> Yeah. So I there was another aspect that
they were highly interested in
developing and this was something called
the Prometheus system and for those that
know the story of Prometheus like you
know go figure right the the bringer of
fire to humanity of course they would
name this such device called the
Prometheus system.
>> Yeah.
>> So
>> I would call it the Fouian system or
something.
So just just like I've described my
interactions as Sylvia, right? Like
highly telepathic, right? Just linking
through consciousness. Uh that seems to
be exactly how most of these UAP, UFO,
other materials are interacted with,
right? So they're not flown with
joysticks. They're flown through the
mind. Right? Um and to tie into this,
right? I would have examples to where
there would be other objects. I would be
sometimes brought just into the same,
you know, lab environment in Ruben Baker
Victory. I wasn't like on an airfield,
right? But from that process of uh, you
know, working with my brain waves,
getting in a state, it was clear that I
was working with something somewhere
else, right? So, uh, there were examples
to where there were objects that I would
be asked to um, shift my conscious
awareness in, right? So, like, let let
me back up. Piloting a UAP, right?
Piloting whatever it is. Not going to
talk about descriptions or anything.
Again, flown through the mind. You mesh
with it consciously. How do you do that?
You take your consciousness outside of
your body and you become that object,
right? And there's an art and a skill of
doing this. So, the same way that right
now my consciousness feels like it's in
my body, I would lay in a deep
meditation. I would have some type of uh
you know perhaps sedative or some type
of you know other uh substance often
used different auditory aids and shift
my consciousness into said object or
some vehicle and become it and from that
point of view actually demonstrate
command and control right pilot it up
and down move it left and right and you
would do that by shifting and almost
taking advant we started this
conversation on like observation and
awareness well to actually like send
commands and controls and these things,
you're doing that through the art of
shifting your own perception and
awareness. So, for example, let's say
there was an orb or something and I was
asked to fly it. Okay? I would shift my
consciousness into it. And when that
would happen, I would typically
experience what I would describe as like
a split. If you can imagine like a split
screen video game, right? This is all my
mind's eye. Uh imagine a split screen
video game where you see something on
the left and something on the right. I
would basically give these commands and
shift my own perspective of myself and
said object to get it to move. So on the
left hand side I would imagine something
from the third person perspective. So
I'm imagining the object, my
surroundings, what everything looks like
around me. And on the right hand or the
right hemisphere, I'm imagining my
forward-looking first-person
perspective. And by the art of
flip-flopping the two, I'm like want to
travel here from my first person
perspective and then on my third person
on my left side, I'm imagining what it
looks like and I'm already there. You
would actually get this thing to move
right now. They had a lot of EG
monitoring on me as I was doing this.
And this is where the Prometheus system
would come in, right? So a highly gifted
psychic kid can mesh their consciousness
and get said object or UAP to move.
Well, how do we give that power to an
Air Force guy, right? Who's does not
have an open consciousness, does not
have an open heart. So, there was
something actually happening at the
brain wave level. You know, something
what entanglements were showing, what
brain wave specs were showing, I don't
know. Um, but from what I understand,
what they were trying to do is build a
brain neural interface, right? So
watching my brain waves as I interacted
with this thing and then creating a
mechanistic machine, an interface that
would reproduce the brain wave signals
that I was sending out. So then you
could boil it back down to someone with
a controller, right? So now that they
have a controller, I can't do this thing
myself, but as I push up, it's sending
the brain wave that we know Jordan, you
know, communicated and move up.
>> That is wild. It's a lot quickly
>> being being used kind of like a as a
human joystick or as a bridge to you
have the mind meld and then h it's so
wild this is so crazy but it also
dovetales with uh this kind of book that
the Pentagon censored seven pages of
redactions this sentinels of ether book
that Jake Barber put out uh
pseudonmously under the the the pen name
Alva Douglas
>> and it's all about this it's all about
this, you know, neural interfaces
between the brain and these crafts. And
that's how you fly them. That's how you
actually get them to show up and uh what
he calls P P3s, people with uh psionic
predisposition potentials and and
they're sort of flying the crafts. And
then you have, like you said, they're
the ones who are kind of heart-c
centered, but they're also sometimes
kind of, you know, given a lot of
pharmacological aids. That's a total
euphemism. you know, they're they're
drugged um to to get into these states
and then um you have people from the Air
Force, just ordinary people using these
people to fly the objects. It's really
crazy.
>> Yeah, it it it sounds incredibly sci-fi.
Um but like that's the reality of it.
>> That's so wild. And and so do you know
what you're locking on to? Do you know
what what the objects are that you're
locking onto when you're sit you're
sitting in this chair?
What's what happens?
>> So I I I don't know. I don't how would I
say this? I don't know how to answer
that like specifically. What I can tell
you is like there were different
objects.
>> Okay.
>> So like just like in the Skywatcher
environment, right? Like we were seeing
different classes of UAP, right? Uh to
my understanding
the you know military-industrial complex
has multiple like classes of UAP right
uh some may be the manta style some may
be the triangle so maybe this and every
person right almost on a consciousness
level signal would perhaps made up or
not made up with some of them. So it was
like I might work very well with object
A but I can't work with object B or C.
Um, and in my localized like testing and
experience, like again, this was like 2
years of highly standardized like
preparation to get me to a point where I
would have been doing that full-time,
right? But again, it didn't happen in my
life story, thank God. So, in my
experiences, they were highly limited.
It was just like I got the muscle
memory. They got to see that I could do
it, but it wasn't like I was doing this
every day. It wasn't like, hey, go take
the UAP and run a mission or something
like that. Yeah.
>> Um, it's just I had enough uh times
where I ran through the process to be
able to articulate it back here today.
>> And for context, just for the audience,
you mentioned Skywatcher. I've done a
show with James Fowler. Um, Jake Barber,
who also kind of, you know, Ross Coldart
originally, uh, introduced his story to
the world. He worked for a contractor
that was probably Northrup Grumman. Um,
that that's through my own and other
people's open source research. That's
not his own admission. He said, "You
could probably guess." Uh so I want to
make that clear. But he basically said
that he retrieved a couple of crafts.
One was an eightgone shaped. It had
eight different sides. And the other uh
was uh an eggshaped craft. And he was
this helicopter pilot who went through
the Air Force combat control pipeline
and was then sheep dipped or erased
basically from the special forces, you
know, traditional pipeline and turned
into kind of this ghost who was uh doing
extremely sensitive missions for nuclear
emergency support and with highv value
targets and that sort of thing. And that
involved UFO crash retrievals. After he
came out, he started this organization
called Skywatcher and you were a part of
this and this involved
essentially getting people with these
psionic predisposition potentials to
call in craft and then also calling in
the craft with these sort of
machine-based systems. Is that right?
>> Yeah. So, here's here to give a little
bit more context here too to kind of
wrap this up for people. Um, all of
these were experiences in childhood for
me, right? and and like we started this
like show out. I had no memory of this
for a lot of years. So like 2023 things
completely burned down, right? I'm I'm
having memories of this. Uh it good
luck, right? Who do you call? I think I
was a part of this compartmentalized
program, right? There's no there's no
resource for you. Um so I just did my
best to, you know, find ways to
psychologically get myself better uh
without, you know, getting labeled
schizophrenic, right? Without going off
the deep end and without killing myself.
I had a suicide attempt, you know, to be
completely honest with you in January 23
because uh I cannot speak to the level
of disparity of like, wow, you wake up
in a matter of two months and remember
an entire childhood that you once
forgotten. You have records, you know,
describing a life that you don't
remember. Like it feels very Jason
Bourney, but instead you're the main
character in Stranger Things.
>> Dude, I I can only imagine. I I and I'm
so grateful that you're you're here and
you're so good. you have, you know,
you're on such a good wavelength and you
have such a good trajectory and uh I
don't know how you integrate uh that
amount of uh traumatic past experience
in such a short period of time. Uh
especially when it it comes up
unprovoked. It's not like you were
attempting to like search of like what's
what's causing my maladies? Oh, I mean,
you know, it just it's sort of, you
know, you were high stress environment
with startups and you had a
relationship,
>> you know, uh, end and then
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Damn, man.
>> Yeah. Like again, uh, completely guided
on this path, you know, as we talk about
NHI and everything like all of this has
really just brought me closer, you know,
to my own, you know, idea and version
and relationship with God. Uh, you know,
to see all these moments where it's
like, wow, you know, it didn't quite
make it. But again to be in a situation
today to be able to articulate this and
actually push the needle forward for
humanity, right? Not for the military,
not for the industrial complex, actually
like putting the power back in our own
hands. Like yeah, that's worth living
for.
>> That's a beautiful thing. That's Yeah,
it's amazing. And uh and you should be
proud of yourself. And um yeah, so you
so this happens in 23. Yeah, go for it.
>> Yeah. So this happens in 23 and it it
starts a a long-term healing process. um
you know, met some amazing people, you
know, built some trust along the way,
but just like highly independent,
transjournaling,
highly uh you basically ways to deal
with this trauma. And uh I started uh
just investigating my own past, right?
Like where did this happen? Who are
these people? You know, how did this all
essentially happened to me? And that got
to getting into like 2024. Um, and as
people know, right, at this time David
Grush had stepped out, reported to
Congress. Um, and I was essentially
looking at like, well, here's the
missing piece, right? Like I experienced
it and lived it. Uh and in 2024 after
going through just a lot of healing,
getting all the supporting records,
evidence, all everything to kind of just
support the credibility of my case, uh I
made contact with uh Ross Cohart and uh
flew down to DC, met with Ross, you
know, did the, you know, followed the
same footsteps as many others, right?
Did the whole testimony. And it was at
that point that Ross um introduced me to
Jacob Barber. So this was before Jacob
Barber had went public. I met him I
think it was like June of 24 or
something along those lines. Um but yeah
was developing a relationship with Ross.
He was highly highly supportive and
introduced me to Jake and he said like
hey here's this guy uh I've been working
with behind the scenes. And at that
point uh Jake was the first individual
that knew what I was talking about that
I had like truly encountered because I
worked up many channels before this. I
was, you know, trying to talk to uh
state police departments, this, this,
this. I was talking to other people, you
know, ex agency people. Uh, and it like
really speaks to the level of uh
compartmentalization that like aspects
of the legacy program have. It's like
it's a far smaller club than most people
think.
>> Far smaller club. Um but I finally made
contact with Jake and uh you know
hearing from Jake you know essentially
he he experienced many similarities you
know I I I think just by uh latitude of
being involved in the operations that he
was involved with he was familiar with
what I went through uh you know in
childhood
>> and
>> he was also gifted in talented education
>> he was he's a gate kid I think his I
think his family's highly um yeah
there's there's a lot of there's a lot
there
>> I was in the gate program as a kid. Gate
program is a program that it's an
acronym for gifted and talented
education and that allowed me to do a
lot of things. Uh I excelled in art and
music actually and the sciences. Uh had
entered a science contest and won a
state science fair based on a project I
had done.
>> I I won't go into too many details. he
can tell his own story, but yeah,
there's some similarities, you know, I
think in in and many many of the gate
people's stories, but um I met Jake and
Jake introduced me to the Skywatcher
cohort, James Fer, Alex at the time. And
you know what really struck me was, you
know, I was in this situation of like
I'm not really a whistleblower, right?
But like I'm attempting to try to do
right, right? I'm trying to find the
right people to get an investigation
open. And you know then you meet these
wonderful guys at the top right like
pinnacle of special operations community
like yeah we've been doing this for
years right and that was really what I
what I think a lot of people missed from
the skyatcher you know uh story was they
looked at it very surface level but like
also there's just a lot of very credible
people who have been trying to fight the
good fight and get information out. So
uh I elected to kind of join the team
and lead the psionic operations piece of
really with the principle of uh if our
government is not going to disclose uh
perhaps we can create the conditions
necessary document that and you know
bring that to science and bring that to
you know the world so we don't need our
governments right um had an amazing time
with them great people worked with some
of the best operators that I've ever
worked with in my life uh but I've
actually left the skyatcher team uh last
July Okay. And the reason being highly
personal for me, but I was just kind of
beginning to get this sensation that um
we need less military honestly, right?
We need less of this kind of like
wounded masculine. We're going to go
figure this out. What we actually need
is like the public support. We need the
next generation thinkers. We need the
next generation industry to begin
working on disclosure. We don't need the
highly compartmented. I've worked in
defense my entire life and you know
that's been my uh trajectory. I just
don't see that being the best like next
chapter for us.
>> Yeah. Also, I would say you know and and
I'm I'm always of like a split mind,
right? Like that to the people who are
like there was nothing going on and they
weren't provoking any sort of UFOs to
appear. I'm like no, I think they were.
I think I think I think a lot of stuff
was showing up for them. Um and then and
then so it's sort of you know got to
hold those people at bay. And then on
the other side, just the idea that you
can somehow subsume this ancient sacred
practice of communing with these
celestial objects which has gone on
since, you know, the days of Yamlus, the
Syrian, you know, Neoplatonist or
Ezekiel or, you know, whatever you want
to date it back to, uh, probably before
that, right? Um, and you can somehow
provoke these things to come and and and
then use them in some instrumental way
to derive material to confer a tactical
warfare advantage via an adversary just
feels like the wrong framework overall.
It's like that doesn't feel like if you
want you got Yeah. You could you have an
infinite range of things you can do with
your life. Maybe not an infinite but a
wide range. Maybe maybe don't do that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like so so for example like
from the psionic you know portion of
this and and I I lead these experiences
for people I want to go interact right
it it's not
>> hey follow this three steps it's it's
highly heart-based it's like I actually
need you to forget everything that you
know and I need you to open your heart
as you prepare to you know embark on
this journey to interact with something
like NHI it's it's not um it's not
mechanistic it's it doesn't fit the
military you know box very well right so
I I totally agree with you and I I think
again it's just um there's there's truth
and there's data and there's things on
both sides of the table you know like a
very interesting you know perspective
without going in too much detail that I
can share here is like from the sky
watcher cohort right like the psionic
operations right like when the psychics
were going out when we were setting up
and running a session and actually
trying to elicit UAP right we were not
successful 100% of the time at eliciting
a response right however every time we
did elicit a respon response. Uh the
phenomena was highly benign, right? Like
it was very neutral. It wasn't angry. It
was just kind of like floating through
checking out, maybe even exhibiting some
like loving behavior, right? Like
actually investigating uh on the, you
know, mechanistic dog whistle side of
things, right? It's my understanding
like that was producing a result, you
know, nearly 100% of the time, but it
would often produce a result that was
aggressive, right? Like as you saw in
like episode two, right? like flying up
to the trailer, like getting highly
aggressive, probing our responses,
right? So, like that kind of like points
to me that what we put out is also what
we're going to get back.
>> Yeah,
>> that's so interesting. So, highly
supportive again of like this is why the
military should not be leading this
conversation.
>> James Fowler on my show is a really
fascinating interview. He was talking
about, you know, somebody was going to
use directed energy or whatever. He said
he made it clear that Skywatcher itself
didn't use directed energy, but somebody
was going to at one point against one of
these like hostile it's like the
jellyfish UFOs UAP which seemed to be
particularly aggressive
>> and it just shut down the directed
energy before it even went out. Yeah.
>> And so it's like
>> I I don't subscribe that the jellyfish
are actually like hostile. I think that
they're almost like an immune response.
like you see that class when you're
actually putting out something that's
probably not in the best interest of the
field.
>> It's just your own BS,
>> right?
>> Excavated in some sort of outer form,
>> right?
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. So again, with like reality, the
phenomenon reflecting back to us, that's
why it's the more that you try to take
this lock down materialistic like
militaristic approach, I think that's
what you're going to get back. And
because, and this is the really messed
up part, and I don't even know how to
talk about this, but they use
electromagnetic pulse weaponry against
these things and then so they're covered
with plasma and then they sort of become
inert and then they come down. Is that
right? Like
>> Yeah. Like I'll I'll be honest with you.
The way that I understand this is again
not sky watchers but the way that I
understand legacy UAP crash retrieval
operations to work many different styles
right one style is let's say they're
using psionics okay you're going to take
psionics highly developed psychic
aptitude uh they're going to go set up
in the desert they're going to run their
protocols and processes which are
probably highly formulated on love right
and they're probably going to do that in
an environment where there's directed
energy weapons all around so your almost
creating this like honeypot of like hey
we love you come see us we want to
interact with you and then let's say
that thing interacts all of a sudden
they're hit with a direct energy up and
materialized and like yeah then it's
recovered so the real sad part of this
where like Ross Colart I think talked
about this a little bit already like
area 52 is that how everything happens
no but I do have awareness that yeah
like many crash retrieval operations
have like operated that way
>> and then in the book Sentinels of Ether
you know, that that Jake put out. Uh
it's like so they they recover material
and then there's a mental interface as
far as the reverse engineered craft as
well. Like getting that to fly requires
the psionic assets to lock in again on
the ground and then it gets those to
fly.
>> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. It's the world gets very
abstract and like very complex at that
point. Are you are you high confidence
in that part or just like the ability
for the thing to show up or
>> I'm high confidence in the fact that
crash retrieval operations have shot
many things with directed energy
weapons.
>> Jesus Christ. And and if your if your
consciousness is locked in as the
psionic asset to the craft
>> and that craft is getting shot, that
must be a traumatic feeling.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I experienced this. I
won't go into details like when where or
anything like that but at one point in
my own personal history right I
experienced this I was interacting with
the phenomena uh my consciousness was
co-creating co-piloting and whatever
kind of uh you know uh manifestation of
phenomena that was showing up right and
halfway through the process as I was
like communicating with other people
kind of demonstrating this uh I felt
something go wrong that I've never felt
for the way that I could kind of explain
it is it felt as if my body was actually
turning to stone. Didn't feel like I was
getting electrocuted. It felt as if the
thing that I was connected to
consciously as well as my body was
immediately turning into stone. And
there was like an emergency I felt to
get my consciousness out of this thing
and back to my body because it felt like
if I stayed that the conduit, right,
this like unseen consciousness
connection was going to be like severed.
And there was almost a uh you know
ability for me to get stuck in this
thing right if I didn't return back to
my body. And from what I understand the
area that I was running that exercise in
happened to have um directed energy
weapons you know naturally near it. So
chances are something got brought in
detected on radar and like naturally
it's looked as a serial threat. Uh, so
yeah, I mean I'm very grateful to be
alive and unscathed from that
experience, but like yeah, there's
experience any sort of physiological
damage from that or
>> No. No, not going to I mean pain, you
know, pain, but no, not that I'm aware
of.
>> Like what if you were to characterize
that pain, was it like a like it was
like a soul pain or was it a was it a
physical pain?
>> Physical soul. Again, imagine your body
turn into stone is the best I can give
you.
>> Yeah.
>> That is so gnarly.
>> Yeah. And again, right, I'm not one
thing we didn't even kind of get into
here, right? Is like, you know, people's
perspective and underlying like
background on the phenomena is like, oh,
it's extraterrestrial. It's like, well,
like, hold on a second. Go back to that
initial analogy that I kind of provided
where it's the story's been it's
materialistic universe or a physicist.
Again, I think we live in a field,
right? And I think that all these
dimensions are stacked, you know, with
us. And it's essentially like everything
is right here, right now. And it's
actually our level of consciousness and
awareness and what we perceive that
gives us the experience. Um, so it's
like very possible. Is this
extraterrestrial?
I don't know. Maybe maybe that's a
portion of it. Uh, I subscribe more that
it's like interdimensional, right? So
perhaps there's an intelligence or an
awareness that's actually fourth, fifth,
sixth, seventh dimension. It's evolved
away from the point of needing an ego
ID. For those that aren't familiar with
that, like looking at, you know,
neuroscience and it doesn't need an ego
ID. It doesn't need a body. Maybe it
exists as this ethereal thought form,
but it's actually an awareness and
intelligence and it can interact with
the third dimension. And it interacts by
materializing a portion of itself here,
right? And maybe that's what we're
seeing, you know, from the UAP side. I
don't think that's all of it, but I
think that's a portion. So, it's like
there's extraterrestrial, there's
interdimensional.
Um, there's also what if it's us? Like,
I'm not completely sold on this either.
And I'll point to a lot of experiments
with plasma, right? Like even that event
that I described when we had 30 people
highly heart- centric, we had these
incredible interactions with plasma
orbs, right? But I'm not completely
convinced that like that could not be an
extension of human consciousness
materializing itself too. Right? So it's
like it's not just one sizefits-all.
It's not as simple as like hey there's
aliens. I think we all want this to be
simple. I I think again the real work in
understanding the phenomena is going to
be in how we understand consciousness
and awareness and what forms
consciousness and awareness can take on.
It's likely not the thing that we are
hearing in the narrative that we're
superimposing. It's likely much weirder
than that and it could be a whole host
of disperate threads. Uh but on the
plasma front, there's a great book
called The New Science of Heaven by uh
really just polymathic brilliant guy
named Robert Temple that I've I've been
reading and it's all about how atomic
matter, physical matter is actually the
exception to the rule and that you know
the universe itself is mostly plasma and
you have these cordallowski clouds and
you have you even have these experiments
being done where it seems like these
plasmoids are in are like cohering to
heartbeats when a human walks up to them
and we have a mutual friend named Adam
Curry who does a lot of you know
experimentation in this area as well.
It's it's really phenomenal. Like, so
who are we to say, you know, it's almost
you have to think about this thought
experiment. How many of the millions of
species on Earth think that they are at
the top of the food chain? Probably a
decent amount. Unless you're constantly
seeing, you know, your apex level
predator that's like freaking you out.
Yeah.
>> You know, a lot of them probably do. And
in some cases, they might think, oh,
they might kill us, kill me or whatever,
but they're dumb. You know what I mean?
So like how many and so who are we to
say that we're we're at the top and then
there's always a an epistemic uh cap
that you have there's an oovelt that
you're or perceptive lens that you're
seeing the world through and that's
always going to be capped. So like and
then I just interviewed an MIT
neuroscientist or MIT trained
neuroscientist at UC Irvine. His name is
Don Hoffman and his whole thing is
consciousness is actually more like
disembodiment is more adaptive for
consciousness.
>> Yeah.
>> So anyways,
>> completely agree with you. I completely
agree with you. Yeah. Like the the the
next generation of this like where do we
go post disclosure, right? Well, it's
like well yeah on one hand you know the
narrative up to this point has kind of
been like bad government doing bad
things. Of course, right? Like, yeah,
there needs to be, you know, some level
of of justice and research, but you
know, like I don't think the next phase
is like, hey, we're going to be looking
really far out to other planets and
we're going to repeat what SETI has done
for like a thousand years. I think the
real answer is like inside us. I I I
think the answer is intrinsic. I think
that the more that we actually
understand how our own intelligence
operates, the more we'll actually
understand these dispirit threads that
just haven't been connected yet. Um, I
also think like the more we look to
past, right, to the past, the better off
we're going to be too because you can
look at like ancient rights of passages,
you can look at hermetic wisdom, you can
look at all of these like just ancient
things we love to kind of like keep to
the side, but if you're willing to like
open the thread, you realize that it's
like the path to ascension, different
consciousness, different awarenesses,
different intelligences. All of this has
been documented for thousands and
thousands of years. You said something
to me off air that blew my mind because
I always, you know, obviously I
systematically look at UFO stuff and I'm
always trying to figure out are these
physical objects? Are they, you know,
mental? You know, I'm pretty convinced
that like the thread that you're on is
correct that like there's some sort of
mental thing. You call them into your
your field. You said something so
interesting to me, which is that the
like directed energy that hits them
creates a local electric field that
almost calls the UFOs into physical
form. Is that roughly right or
>> Yeah. I I don't again this is not my
domain, right? This is just like my
extrapolated understanding of like
trying to view the perspective of what
has happened, right? in like some of
these scenarios that we talked about
yesterday and it's that like perhaps
think of a UAP or UFO as more of like a
manifestation right it's like imprinted
in this reality and we took that model
that we talked about yesterday of like
perhaps an interdimensional
right intelligence or aspect of
awareness maybe in that seventh
dimension right is like oh okay I'm
going to come you know interact in the
third dimension in this moment of time
and I'm going to you know perhaps
project and manifest my awareness here.
That awareness takes on a certain form.
That awareness could take on a plasma
orb that could take on a craft, could
take on whatever, right? And from that
projection, something like directed
energy may actually like force that to
materialize and almost become like a
dense portion of this, you know,
dimension that we're in, right? Um it's
not that like, hey, that allows it to
take form. What I'm really saying is
like what may have been happening in
some of these scenarios is like this is
a transdimensional object that doesn't
necessarily belong here, but by hitting
it with like something like directed
energy, you're forcing it to take form
and become bound to this dimension. Have
you heard of Eric Wargo? He wrote a book
called Time Loops. No,
>> he's amazing. He talks about like the
soul self as being like uh he calls it
the long body and it's like the there's
some sort of quantum self that's like
maybe like a tesseract or something and
that is ported into the human body and
there is this burgeoning field of
quantum biology you know even going back
to 1944 I believe Schroinger himself
who's like the father of you know
quantum wave function a lot of quantum
mechanics he uh had a lecture series uh
called what is life and he talked about
these aperiodic you know receiver
crystals in the DNA and so you have to
wonder like are we tethered to something
higher and Wargo presents this really
interesting model where um you know in
uh quantum computations you can reverse
cubit positions
>> and so uh basically there even people
who are serious uh you know working in
in in you know on quantum computers or
probably more in the quantum mechanics
interpretation world think that maybe on
the application layer of a working
quantum computer which we don't have
because you know chips and keeping them
cryionically cooled or whatever
cryogenically cooled is the bottleneck
when we get that maybe you could send
information of a future knowledge or
memory state back in time and so then if
you get into you know again I don't know
if this is you know fully verified but
like the Roger Penrose Hamarov you know
tube tubin of the microtubules or
whatever or something like it in the
brain where you have some sort of
quantum room temperature quantum system.
Um then your future knowledge state
could send stuff back in time. If you
think about pre-sentiment like what do
we have these um precocious prememories
of you know the things that we have in
intuitions that are going to happen and
it's like you wake up you have a dream
about the thing it's often the most
important thing and the most important
as far as you know it being adaptive
adaptive for your survival and your
evolution. So like you know losing a
loved one or like you know something
dangerous that could happen to you or
whatever you know these are the things
that get downloaded and you know I think
we're going to end up with this um
consciousness model where uh you're
you're you're like a a measurement
system and it's like you're like the
stylus on like an LP player and you're
picking you're picking the tracks or
something. I I you know at a just very
loose level, right? Like I subscribe to
this conceptually, right? And this kind
of like mirrors back the idea of time.
It's almost as if like every aspect of
experience already exists in some form,
right? Like if you went right or left,
if you decided to do the show or didn't
do the show, right? Um it's in that core
present moment that like you as the
awareness get to decide, right? So it's
kind of like reality is almost this like
you get to chart your own path. Perhaps
there are these like predetermined like
you have to get here. You have to make
XYZ decision. Everything's accessible to
you, but like you only have these
choices with you in the present moment,
but they've actually already all
happened or they already could happen.
And you as the core part of awareness
get to experience it now through your
decision-m, right? And the idea like,
hey, maybe um you know in the future,
right, of like what we perceive as
linear time, right? like you ended up in
a position where it's like this isn't
the right way. You know, perhaps there
is just this kind of quantum feedback
loop where maybe in the present moment
now before you make that decision, you
start getting synchronicities, right?
That like force you to take a different
decision, right? So like maybe all of
this is this giant feedback loop.
>> Not to move from uh such a a
transcendent message to a more benal uh
uh subject, but I think a lot of people
are left in suspense around you know
this experience that you had. So, uh,
we're kind of weaving in and out, but I
I love it. But you're So, you had this
2-year experience, um, at this center,
and it's, you know, this Victory Baker
Center. And what happens? So, so are
there any experiments that we're missing
first off?
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's there's many there's
many. And what I'll add to people here,
right, is like, you know, from a
psychological basis is like I have a
high level of dissociation over that
experience. And it's taking me years,
right, to be able to have the recall and
the integration that I do have. Uh
outside of the dissociation,
there were all sorts of substances that
I was I was essentially an experiment,
right? Stuff that I don't even know. Uh
you know, stuff I still wonder like,
hey, I had cancer at a young age. Like I
wonder if there's a connection there,
right?
>> I wonder, man. Yeah.
>> You know, it's it's just kind of shitty
to think about for lack of a better
word. But uh anyways, yeah, two years I
was there. The real pinnacle of this was
again it was development. So I was in a
track and the next iteration that was
told to me when I was there in the
school was that uh I was going to leave
this little facility that I was spent
that two years in and I was going to be
enrolled in a boarding school. So I was
going to leave my parents after all. I
was going to go to a facility in Eastern
New York and I was going to live there
full-time and they were I was going to
get to do this stuff all the time. And
I'm pretty sure that would have been the
point that I just disappear from human
society and probably get, you know,
thrown in the underground bunker, right?
Uh by the grace of God. At the same
time, getting into 2010, uh and this is,
you know, just for some great people,
right? Like this is some great
investigation work. Ross Colart has done
a lot on this, you know, to piece this
back together. But in 2010,
um, my home school district, right, that
little hometown of Springville, by grace
of my mother, by grace of myself,
finally like petitioned the state of New
York to come and look in at this
facility. And apparently for 5 months,
the record something goes, uh, Baker
Victory Services was refusing access to
the state to come in and inspect me,
right? which you would do if you're a
intelligence agency or a defense
contractor, like you have control over
everything. Well, that got to the point
where they were going to run a state
audit like on the whole thing. And they
didn't want that to happen. So, I was
hastily returned in like September of
2010 back to my home school district,
kicked out of the program, and like I
said, I was on like 12 antiscychotics.
there was a cover basically pointing up
to this time that I was severely
mentally unwell and that's what was
justified my placement there for two
years. So like within 30 days all this
craziness stops. I get thrown back into
my home school district and I just do
everything in my power to forget this
ever happened. Uh because I I went up
against what it felt like was the beast.
Like the these people masqueraded as
school, they masqueraded as my friends.
Who do I trust? I'm just never going to
talk about this and hope to God I live a
normal life. Uh, and that worked. Within
one year, all of my medications were
released. I was released from every
single psychological diagnosises. So,
it's just magically cleared in one year,
right? And it just all disappeared. It
just all disappeared.
Yeah. Major major fall through the
cracks, you know, level of Roblox. But
also, again, this is like highlevel
exploitation from the best of the best
of, you know, uh, like an intelligence
agency, right? This is how they would
masquerade the system.
>> And what is it like 400 plus lawsuits
were you know thrown against uh Victory
Baker Services. Is that right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They It's no longer an
operation. It has been sued so many
times uh not by myself but just by other
people reporting sexual abuse claims
that they had to close the facility.
>> Do you have any sense of the contractors
or the agencies that were working there?
Uh I don't want to go into too many
details about that. Uh but I will gladly
point the audience to where I think like
if you want to look at legacy program
stuff, I'd look at MITER.
>> MITER Corporation. Yeah.
>> They're federally funded research and
development center. Yeah.
>> And it's interesting uh Eric Berles
uh you know congressman from Missouri
who's really been a champion of UFO UAP
disclosure. He is now basically
demanding that MITER
open up all their records regarding
involvement with this sort of subject.
And so that'll be that'll be very
interesting. I think he sent them
something saying you have 45 days or
something like that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Again, the what's
interesting is like my whole track that
I experience as an individual is like I
love the fact that there's Berlesin
doing this. I love the fact that there's
still so many good people like trying to
fight the good fight using the
mechanisms of government that we have
today. My experience was like they all
failed. They failed me as a kid. They
still failed me now as we've tried to
look right. So I'm far more interested
in like um at the same level people are
looking backwards and you know trying to
get justice and get right. We also need
a cohort of people who are looking
forward that are saying like I'm not
worried about what bad MITER did. I'm
worried about what was MITER doing? What
do they know? And how can we bring that
out into the public light right now?
>> Yeah, totally.
>> Like where is that, you know,
transcendence going to happen? And I
hope that um, you know, just from like
what I'm creating, what others are
creating in the space that like a whole
new renaissance uh can emerge, right?
>> Well, MITER's weird. I mean they used to
hold like gravity conferences and you
know Ning Lee was last you know speaking
at a meer conference before she kind of
went into the black and she was doing
anti-gravity experiments and so it's
yeah the the first order thing is right
like wait you know this is this is
totally messed up like you guys have
committed crimes. The second order thing
is like you're concealing stuff that
could just change humanity and make like
the world like way way better. So like
let that out you know at the very least
let that out you know. Well, here's the
thing. I don't know if they will, right?
Like, let's look at the track record,
you know, to this point. Is this just
going to be another 20 years of just
like fighting with the mechanisms? Uh,
and and again, back to the earlier point
is like we don't need it.
>> We don't need government. We don't need
the people who've done this wrongly. We
need the next cohort of individuals and
organizations and industry that are
willing to say like there is a whole new
unlock in the way that we understand
ourselves in the universe at our
fingertips. We're willing to look.
>> Yeah. And it's it's it's it's almost um
the tech you're describing isn't insane.
>> You know, EEGs and brain mapping
>> and you know and then getting into a
subconscious state. It's like this stuff
was written about like years a you know
it's Silva mind control you know all
these sorts of things hundreds of years
>> you know uh so it's that's not the super
complicated it's actually just being
open to the fact that your consciousness
has an impact on the material world. So
that's that's actually the limiting
factor. Um it's so interesting to hear
your story because it dovetales with so
many other stories that I've
encountered. Like you know Dan Sherman
is this uh guy who went on my show who
wrote a book called Above Black and he
was uh you know Air Force Electronics
Intelligence. He went to um I believe it
was supposed to be it was in Maryland
and maybe it was Fort me where he was
going to do some um you know continuing
education and then he got taken to this
NSA complex and he was given these
headphones
told to take these pills and then was
told to lock onto a sine wave and
flatten the sine wave.
>> I could definitely affect the the motion
and I could do it just at will. Have you
ever experienced anything like that?
>> I know exactly what he's talking about.
Okay.
>> Yeah, we had different terms like square
the circle like things like that. But,
you know, probably uh who knows if he
was actually looking at a real sine wave
or was he looking at something that just
like visually looked, you know, behaved
as a sine wave was the underlying
signal.
>> It could have visually just looked like
a sine wave. And and then I don't know
if the binaural beats actually matched
that, but he he said that that got him
into a state where he could communicate
with extraterrestrials. And the way he
was briefed, it was called uh Project
Preserve Destiny. They said that his
mother uh while she was pregnant was was
abducted by aliens and genetically
altered. He was genetically altered as a
fetus in her womb to have more of a
psychic predisposition potential for
communicating with these, you know,
extraterrestrial or non-human
intelligence. there is something there,
you know, and like props to him for
sharing what is like a very vulnerable
aspect of that because like that just
sounds bonkers to a lot of people. Uh,
but there is certainly some genetic
aspects to psychic potentials. Uh, you
know, like rare blood types, you know,
like I'm aesus negative. I know we've
talked about that.
>> Rh negative.
>> Yeah. Whether whether there's a
correlation or not is like highly
highly, you know, disputed. Uh but like
>> a lot of people with that blood types,
they say, you know, the veil's a little
thinner for me. I'm a little more
clairvoyant, you know?
>> Yeah. Maybe one of many. If if anything,
I don't think it's it's probably that
easy. You know, maybe there are some
genetic carriers that like deep down I I
think there's certainly a there there,
but um in reality, I I think we all
possess an underlying amount of this
ability, you know, to perceive extra
sensory information. Uh I think maybe
some individuals just perhaps have like
a higher ceiling. Yeah.
>> than others.
>> Well, a very high up person in in
government who I won't out because I
don't think he wants to be outed, but uh
basically corroborated Sherman's story.
And so, you know, unfortunat I hate
saying anonymous source, but you know,
take that with a grain of salt if you
want. Um, and he has this DD214 and he
even in his book he didn't mention one
of the bases and then we figured out one
of the bases. It was in southern Italy
and because he took a photo of it in his
book and you didn't have the internet
back then so you couldn't reverse image
search and I called him out on it. was
San Vito de Normandy or something and he
was like, "Yep, that was the base." And
then the the other base was off it um
you know I think in Nebraska. And so his
story kind of checks and then I another
uh you know electronics intelligence guy
named Dan Hog um you know who uh I
believe worked for the director of
national intelligence and you know has a
long history in government. It's
basically like all of the electronics
intelligence stuff he's saying seems
totally legit and he's just a super
normal cool guy.
>> Um,
>> so it's so wild to me,
>> you know, and then it's this is what it
cuts to the core of the matter because
all this stuff is hidden in plain sight.
>> That's the big key, right? And that's
what I tell, you know, everyone in my
story, right? It's plausible deniability
is key. It is not grandiose. It's like
if you want to hide something, you blend
it in.
>> For somebody, their day job was going to
the Victory Baker Services Center. And
that you say this, you know, in a great
blog post you wrote, they would go to
the Starbucks around the corner or
whatever and talk casually about their
job, which is recruiting for this UFO
covert program. It's not it's not like
some crazy dark I think like all the
conspiratorial you know just um
imaginations you know out there have
kind of created the stigma of it's like
highly secret it's like actually it's
highly secret certainly but it's hidden
in plain sight it's not compartmented
like you'd think it's going to operate
through channels that you know carry and
allow plausible deniability right are
you going to question if the air force
is setting up a road perimeter or would
you question if the local police
department are there less right like
you're going to flow through the
channels that you can you're not going
to make yourself a target
>> 100% and Ross Coldart is a really
hard-nosed good journalist who really
vets you know uh his sources and uh you
know I'm sure he went very deep with you
you also mentioned Odyssey systems is
that something that he uncovered or you
uncovered in this
>> yeah there there's certainly some
connections there uh you know whether
the exact contractor personnel or not
Odyssey systems is like highly debated.
I I think some of the underlying like
tech platforms that were being used just
in terms of like data management um were
Odyssey Systems, but uh I believe that
there's quite a bit that points to MITER
from my understanding.
>> It's so fascinating.
Yeah. Have you heard of Andre Puharic by
any chance?
>> Bharik. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And um
highly synonymous. You know, I kind of
look at Bharik as like he
>> uh he likely championed the earlier
iteration of research that I later
experienced, you know, in in in the
program. A lot of the same similarities,
you know, his ideal space kids, right,
in upstate New York, upstate New York,
nonetheless, uh yeah, there's quite a
few similarities there.
>> Upstate New York, he had them channeling
things in Faraday cages and non-human
intelligence and uh they were often very
high sigh power, very clairvoyant. Um
just really fascinating and you you have
to wonder I think the gate program was
started by Sydney Marland in 1972 and
this was before the church committee and
so this is before a lot of the
malfeasants around MK Ultra CIA mind
control that sort of stuff was kind of
excavated by Frank Church and you know
Congress and the civilian world and I
wonder if it was formed somewhat with
the intent of funneling in you
kids who have psionic predisposition
potential or whatever to these programs.
>> Yeah. You know, I the way that I
typically say this to people is like
GATE itself is is benign, right? By by
all regards, at least in my
consideration, it's that there's been a
different entity that is utilizing Gate
behind the scenes to find a pre-selected
pool of people and pull them into the
programs because GATE itself like does
great things, right? Like it pushes
people to STEM. there's there's a lot of
benefits that are not you know crazy
conspiratorial UAP thing it's more that
there is an element that is looking at
the pool of gate people and plucking
from them right so like gate is kind of
used as this just general identifier and
funnel it itself is not bad but there's
someone else in there and pulling from
it
>> what's your theory on do you have like a
consciousness theory which I mean it's
it's like the hardest thing to sort of
uh make falsifiable right it's hard to
understand the causal mechanism of the
random event generators. what's causing
>> wave function collapse or you know even
wave function collapse might be a
>> poor way of putting it you know uh but
even you know a lot of the godfathers of
quantum mechanics or even the Copenhagen
interpretation it's like you we observe
the wave function and it collapses what
does that mean and how do we know that
it's just particles kind of independent
of us or waves rather you know uh uh you
know turning into discrete particles you
know independent of the observer there's
literally it's unfalsifiable there's No
way to argue that the superp position
doesn't exist in the quantum detector
and it's not the quantum detector, you
know, causing the collapse like the
observer could be and all these people.
>> How far do you want to go back on like
the observational metrics? It's just
like how do you keep Well, that's the
pro that's the ordeal with the
awareness, right? Like you almost can't,
right? That's where you can kind of get
back to the point of like you can't take
out observation. You can't take out
awareness.
>> It's completely you can't remove it.
Even in sort of the delayed choice
experiment or even in like uh you know
just basic quantum mechanics you choose
to make the measurement and then you're
collapsing the wave function. So like
let's like totally back up for a moment
and I'll use a little bit of this
example like the the story as we know it
right here we are as humans having this
conversation. You know most of us have
been told something you know along these
lines that uh we live in a materialistic
universe right that earth is essentially
a rock. It is orbiting the sun, right?
We live in this material rocky solar
system. Uh we live on it. We're humans.
We're kind of this happy accident. Our
brains just happen to be producing this
thing of consciousness locally and you
you you live and die. You know, it's
pretty sad when you really think about
that. Um you know, my experience was
being taught, trained, and you know,
having experiences that validate this
that we don't necessarily live in a
materialistic world. We live in
something a lot more akin to a field,
right? That is taking on a materialistic
form as we interact with it. But the
underlying substrate is not fixed. It's
not rock. It's actually something far
more reflexive than that. And
consciousness and awareness is the in
between that can see both worlds, that
can interact with both worlds and
actually exert effects on both worlds.
So you begin to see the world not
necessarily some fixed static
materialistic universe that we live in.
You see it as something that's dynamic,
reflexive, and the underlying substrate
is not materialistic. It's how we
perceive it at our current level of
consciousness.
>> How do synchronicities work?
>> I don't know. You know, it's Gosh. Yeah.
Let's talk about time, huh?
>> Yeah.
Uh, interestingly, I I think, you know,
for people that aren't familiar with
like synchronicities, right? Like number
one, I think they're highly personal,
right? I think they're highly highly
highly personal. Um, and I and I think,
you know, if you subscribe to a version
of the universe where, you know, whether
through dimensions or something else
like maybe there's a concept of your
higher self, right? Like there's a
consciousness, you know, up and beyond
this body that maybe is like steering
you, right? or like hey you have two
options right or left but if we give you
the synchronicity a little sense of deja
vu like maybe you get highly reflective
in that moment and almost change the
outcome right so I think of like
synchronicities almost as like this
communication between a higher version
of yourself or a version of yourself
perhaps in a different timeline that's
allowing you to critique your experience
here
>> yeah it's a little wink or a nudge you
know in the right direction or something
also feels like it's a
you know kind of exemplifying maybe a um
a reduction in entropy. So if you think
of time you it's hard to define time
without you know um defining it with
respect to oscillations of an
electromagnetic wave or the movement of
macroscopic bodies and time really
doesn't exist without uh separation like
if you you know pre- big bang you can
think of like the world the world at
rest is is entirely timeless and so time
has to be between two objects and uh uh
or it has to involve moving movement.
There's there's nothing fundamental
about and so because it's the most used
noun and because it's undefinable
without respect to those things, it
feels like this soup that we're swimming
in that's like impossible to get outside
of.
>> And so the the synchronicity thing is
like um
>> I don't know. I don't I don't know how
you Yeah, I'm sort of going full skits
here.
>> No, I love it. This is the fun part. Uh
I I'm I'm with you. I I think uh just to
untangle the two like yes
synchronicities you know the causal
mechanism I'm not sure how I look at
them as my own life you know as I look
at them as like little beacons of like
guiding you know maybe it's like either
a
>> whoa the clock 33 like let me just think
for a moment what am I doing in this
moment what am I thinking should I think
more critically here right or you know
maybe they're encouragement that they're
on the right path right it's kind of
like what you make of them uh but for me
it's like I look at as like highly
personal right more of like a guiding
factor. Uh but like getting back into
like time, right, and like kind of like
untangling the two is like I think
largely our current understanding of
spaceime is going to change the more
that we really look into awareness and
consciousness. Um I'm not convinced that
it's like this static measure, you know,
of the universe or a law of nature as we
know it. You know, I think it's far more
reflexive. I think, you know, depending
on localized environments, it's highly
changing. I think the awareness or the
observer perhaps may actually have an
influence on time or maybe the flow of
time too. So I think so too and before
mechanical clocks time was only embodied
and it was talked about in malleable
ways and so time freezing wasn't like
>> oh it's a felt sense of time freezing.
It was actually maybe freezing you know
especially if Yeah, go for it. I was
just going to say like this gets more
interesting too as you think about the
technological age that we're in. Like
the more that we measure and observe,
right? The more I wonder if we're
actually constraining ourselves a little
bit, right? Cuz like if you was back in
the 1600s, things were very magical. Uh
we're figuring out how consciousness and
awareness has the ability to influence
things. You can direct your experience
from it. So like, hey, if you ran off
into the woods and you're like, I want
to go find someplace magical, maybe that
manifests and materializes because
there's no one else watching. You're in
a quantumly state and you like actually
travel there, right? But now that we're
in this localized environment where
we're watching and measuring and
limiting everything, perhaps that's
actually having a constrictive aspect on
reality where it's like, oh, you can't
just your your range of options are
limiting because now there has to be
this connection point that makes sense
between this observer, that observer,
and that observer. It's no longer just
you and the universe that's embodied.
It's all these other mechanisms in
between. you have all these things being
snapped to grid instead of like staying
in this possibility space this superp
positionality
>> it's so fascinating you know well um
Rudolph Steiner's this great Austrian
philosopher who uh you know I'm a big
fan of and um he wrote a book uh called
Gerta's theory of knowledge Gerta you
know obviously the German you know poet
polymath from 18th century you know 100
years before Steiner was writing and
Gerta went to Strath Strasburg Cathedral
and Strasburg was this sort of you know
Gothic cathedral that was seen as way
too ornate and chaotic in you know for
that time which was you know more about
kind of you know uh sparse functionality
and uh it was you know heavily
criticized and he experienced this
merging with the cathedral and it was
this sort of very important thing in his
life and he then predicted that the next
epistemological paradigm shift would be
cognition by identif ification.
>> Um, so instead of cognition through this
observer observed separation, this
duality, it would be like you would
embody the thing that you're trying to
understand. You wouldn't study it from a
distance, from afar. And that seems
awfully like a lot of these, you know,
techniques you were, you know, being
told to do in this covert Baker victory
services program,
>> right? Yeah. You become it, right? You
you you embody it. you become it or like
even in in the extreme cases that I was
doing, right? It's like there's an
aspect of disembodiment and then
re-mbodiment, right? And the gap is of
the thing.
>> But I I think like in Rudolph uh in
Rudolph's kind of thinking here too.
It's not necessarily like like that's a
very almost materialistic aspect of what
you know I was doing. It's like I'm
leaving my body, I'm getting into
another object to take it on. I think
like that can just be applied at so many
levels of life. Like it can also be
applied to like your own cognition of
yourself, right? Like I what comes up
for me is uh you know I kind of think
back to this too is just like become who
you want to become. Fake it till you
make it works for a reason, right?
Because you're embodying something
that's already there and then your
reality is kind of conforming around you
for that. So uh there's a lot more
wisdom in there that meets the surface
>> for sure. And and then you just have to
do it.
Fake it till you make it works. If the
faking it exists on a real subconscious
level like you have like sub inentions.
So, there's something to the secret into
all these sort of manifesting practices.
And then it feels like some people are
like running on ice. They're running in
place or whatever. And they clearly have
all sorts of sub intentions that are
very self-sabotagy and they don't quite
actually translate and work. Y
>> and so you have to get deeper into that
the substrate and you know that that
seems really hard. Maybe you can do it
with some brain mapping bio feedback
techniques but I don't know if we have a
pure science of that, you know. I think
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I don't I don't think
that like you know even again with like
next level consciousness next level side
like I I personally like even on this
journey you're like I've gotten MRIs you
know and a few things stand out I think
like you know Gary Nolan's done some
really great research like I have a very
unique codate and pudamin there's a lot
of white matter going on there. Yep.
Yep. There's certainly a correlation but
>> so but real quick I wanted because the a
so uh Gary Nolan Stanford professor
tenure microbiologist he's doing all
these studies that on the codate nucleus
and and potamin which is this part of
the basil ganglia and if that's very
neuronally dense the person seems to
have high uh sigh powers high sort of
mind over matter ability and then also
seems to encounter more sort of UAP UFO
stuff and So you got an MRI and you have
>> Yeah, I have a very high level
striation, right? So essentially to
summarize like in the ki and the pudamin
there's a high level of these white
matter stripes right um however I don't
think that's it like I I I think what
we're going to find is the more that we
look for physiological markers uh you
know like like the answer for
consciousness is not looking at the
materialistic aspect don't look at the
physiological symptoms I don't think
that's what we're going to find it I I
think we're going to find a lot more
about actually going in the intrinsic
you know whether that be the
metaphysical
the the the woo spiritual, the the
quantum observational, right? Like,
however, whatever glasses you want to
put in or put on to wear to better
understand this, use them. They're all
the same thing. Also, if this is some
sort of simulation or computation or
something, if you find the infinite
money-making machine, you know, you
figure out some sort of causal physical
mechanism for psychic powers or
whatever, do you think that if there's
any sort of intentionality behind the
game that you're being that you're
playing?
>> Do you not think that the person or the
entity or God or whatever would change
the source code on you? like like like
you're not going to figure out the one
thing that allows you to hack the entire
game.
>> This is the this is like the right-hand
path versus the left-hand path, right?
Where like there's always been you can
think of like the crazy scientist who's
like I want to take sigh and I'm going
to figure out the mechanisms and predict
the world right and it's all going to be
for me. Well, it's like that always ends
in disaster. Yes,
>> that's ended in disaster for every you
know imperialist emperor et like it
doesn't just have to be science science
right like that's the left hand path the
right-hand path of like wow there's
something here if we actually work on
the understanding the embodiment and you
know the progression of it uh maybe from
a collective measure outside of the self
then it seems to scale with you right
and you get like compounding effects um
and I think like up until this point
like this has been the story of
disclosure there's been a highly the
finite amount of people in the lefth
hand path that know information that you
haven't been allowed to know. Right now,
for the first time in history, the
right-hand path is opening up. So, the
more that we collectively actually work
together, uh I think the more that we
get, you know, both individually and
collectively.
>> Agreed. Yeah. Whether it's Lord of the
Rings or Prometheus or Fouster or all of
these legends end the same way and it's
not good.
>> Yeah. If you try to use the sacred
thing, I think there's even a line in
the Old Testament about this where if
you try to like turn any of the sacred
stuff into a business, like it always
backfires.
>> Always backfire.
>> And so just don't try to like, you know,
beat the thing into submission. Go into
it non-coercively, not for any sort of
instrumental use. And just if if you're
curious and you want, you know, your own
growth and ascension, great. But
otherwise, you know,
>> there's a there's a delicate dance
there, right? It's like threading the
needle, right? Because like we live in
this capitalistic society and like,
well, you have to make money, right? And
and I think there's a lot of people you
can just like get, you know, people who
are very advanced spiritually like want
to share gifts to humanity. Like always
the roadblock is like, well, how do you
make money and support yourself with it
too, right? So, it's like there there's
a very fine line. I I I don't know if
it's like the answer is just don't make
money, but I think it's like have the
right intentionality between how you're
making your money. What do you think
when you're communing with these orbs
and UFOs that sort of show up?
>> What do you think they are? You we you
went through some of the thinking and
theories, you know, earlier, but like I
guess May maybe because, you know, we're
grasping at straws on theories. What is
it? What does it feel like?
>> Every time it's a little bit different,
right? Every time it's a little bit
different. And we covered the theories,
right? Like
>> one could be uh extraterrestrial, two I
subscribe to more dimensional,
interdimensional, you know, three could
be us, right? Like a mirror back, right?
It could be all these things at once. Um
but in terms of like what does it feel
like, right? Uh for me, it's highly uh I
almost feel it hemispherically, right?
So like let's say there's an orb or I'll
I'll kind of recreate the Yelin
experience for you for those that have
kind of heard that, right? So what that
looked like is I took a group of about
30 people. Uh we had a highly dedicated
like track list that I produced like
specific binaural beats, specific
frequencies. Um we're outside in a
beautiful setting and I'm giving people
instructions on just how to ground
themsel like basic meditative tools. Uh
I give them a visualization exercise. So
they're visualizing when we actually
begin this experience. And then everyone
starts the same tracklist at the same
time. So we're all synchronized. So
imagine a 30 minute playlist. you're all
listening at the same time and when
you're all synchronized like that, you
almost create this like group coherence,
right? Super interesting things happen
with RNGs in this environment too, which
I just will say as like an environmental
sensor of what's happening
environmentally. Something's happening,
right? RNGs will shift sigmas. There's
other environmental stigmas. So, again,
like there's a whole chapter of research
of like consciousness in relation to the
environment, not just NHI that has not
been looked at yet. NHI is almost a
byproduct of what happens in like a
field environment like this, right?
>> Um, but
>> that feels right because when you talk
to the remote viewers
>> who are systematically trained at like
getting into these heightened states,
>> it almost feels like UFOs and aliens and
all these things. They're like an
incidental byproduct of everything else.
And they're so casual to like their
environment. They're like, "Oh, we we
looked into this ET base or whatever."
It's like and it's so it's like so not a
thing for them because they have like an
expanded scope of reality. But anyway,
so keep going.
>> No, you're totally right. You're totally
right. Yeah, that's again where I really
hope it's not just we need finite lab
conditions. This is like what happens
when you start bringing everyone
together, right? And a shared
meditation, shared synchronized setting.
What environmental signals can you look
at? What's changing? Right? And now
change the conditions like task the
people in the group differently. What
changes in the environmental conditions?
like there's so much yet to be
discovered right in front of us that we
haven't looked into yet. Um, but to
answer your question specifically,
right, like uh we're doing a shared
visualization. Uh, everyone's listening
to the same track list the same time.
It's highly synchronized. Uh, I have an
ability to get out of my body, right?
And kind of visualize my surroundings
out of body. And when something like an
orb, right, or uh a manifestational
phenomena showing up for me somatically,
I actually feel this like uh spinning or
correlation between my hemispheres. It's
like as if you took my right and left
hemisphere, my brain and my skull, and
it's like they began oscillating at
different speeds and different tempos.
And it's almost like the higher they
speed up or the higher the vibration,
the closer the phenomena or the
manifestation is that I'm actually
interacting with. And then sometimes
it's telepathy through uh voice.
Sometimes it's telepathy through words.
What is actually the better question to
ask here? It's not how I experience it.
It's that every single human, every
person, every psychic, right,
experiences it differently. Uh and it
depends more so on their cognition
platform, right? So if you're again, if
you're a kinesthetic person, how you
experience the phenomena is going to be
kinesesthetic. If you're looking at
information very auditory, like you hear
things, you're going to experience
auditory telepathy, right? If you're
visual like me, you might experience
things very visual. You see it in your
mind's eye. You're interacting with the
orb and it's distantly away, right? All
of them can be true. It depends more on
us as the receiver and how we process
the info.
>> It's interesting that you experience the
synchronization of hemispheres. uh I
believe in ' 85 or '86 there's a CIA
document that's now been you know the
Freedom of Information Act has been used
against it and it's all about this
hemisync technique that Robert Monroe uh
in Virginia this consciousness
researcher kind of pioneered now you
have the Monroe Institute there and it's
all about using these binaural beats
that are slightly off so the brain
entrains them to synchronize and then
through the entrainment you get this
synchronization of the entire the whole
brain and And then you experience all
sorts of, you know, amazing stuff in a
kind of expanded reality. So this is so
fascinating. It's so interesting. And
another thing I thought, have you heard,
you know, Arthur C. Clark? Of course,
the the sci-fi novel. He Sorry. Sorry.
The sci-fi writer.
>> Um,
>> he uh wrote a Have you heard of
Childhood's End? Have you ever read that
book?
>> No.
It's all about um these alien beings
that kind of uh are overseeing Earth and
they both infiltrate the government in
these covert ways and then they also
speak only to these autistic nonverbal
children and that's how they
communicate. And I think of, you know,
your experience in the center you were
at and think of the telepathy tapes
which, you know, is now super invogue
and and popular. There's an amazing
podcast by Kai Dickens about all these
non-verbal autistic children and the the
paradigms that they live in which are
really heart-c centered and involve love
and and also a lot of these other beings
and knowledge that seems like hermetic
and like you know through channels that
you would never
have been able to have you know to to
get through inductive logic like they
come out like they know certain Egyptian
hieroglyphics and stuff like it does
feel like that's and then all this whole
modern disclosure movement which is sort
of you know a little ridiculous but it's
happening and it feels like that book is
happening.
>> Yeah, totally. I I have two like oh gosh
there's so many ways I want to take
this. Um you know actually I'll I'll
build on a little bit of this without
like saying too much but this is like a
very personal experience for me. Um
there was an individual one of the
guests on the telepathy tapes episode. I
won't get into the names but I actually
interacted with right like I had a Zoom
phone call um with them really quick
right light years away um but had just a
great call got introduced and then I
went to sleep that evening and then that
evening I had the most extreme astral
experience being taken out of my body uh
to like a vibrational state that I've
never experienced before like super
super high felt it just in my entire
being And I was like very clearly on
what I would best describe as like the
hill. And when I was there, it felt like
I was in an auditorium where there was
all these other people with me. And
interestingly enough, um, I had this
image kind of like that came into my
head and it was from the person that I
interacted with on the tapes and they
were showing me an image of um, a kid
named Ken that was in the program that I
was in at Baker Victory who was a
non-verbal autistic and they were
communicating to me that like, hey,
because you know Ken and you interacted
with Ken, we can find you through them,
right? like we're all connected in this
certain way and like that completely
changed and like since then I've still
had repeating experiences of like being
brought to this very high frequency
spot. Um so there's a lot there right
with the non-verbal side of um you know
the autistic world. Yeah,
>> that's fascinating. It's almost like you
can link up with another node or
something. And then you mentioned that
at Baker Victory Services, a lot of
their work was having you quantum
unentangle with things that you were
entangled with.
>> Mhm. So because you're so high empathy
and you have kind of a a porous outer
shell at the time, you would just glom
on to things and then you'd have to like
sort of reel your your your full self
back in or you it's almost as if like so
for thinking from like a quantum
perspective as you're thinking about
remote viewing like other viewers have
talked about this, right? your own bias,
your own life experience, your own
perception is actually going to create
how you view things, right? So again,
for people that are like looking, we'll
back up real quick. Uh cuz this is like
an important thing to say. So as we've
we're here at the critical component of
like disclosure, right? Uh there's
something more than us. There's a
different intelligence out there. all of
this. I I think like if I was at other
intelligence, I would probably be like
looking at humanity laughing like you
guys need to get out of your own way.
And before we should focus on like
communing with NHI and communing, you
know, with what very well may be angels,
like whatever you want to call them, we
should probably understand ourselves
first and we should probably understands
our own reality first. And then if we do
that, maybe, you know, we'll aspire to
this, right? Because it's like again
just like we talked about with
psychedelics like don't bypass right
like we can't bypass what the lesson
here I think is more of like this mirror
that's being presented to humanity of
like
>> you're on this very weird path. There's
a lot of trepidation ahead of you. You
haven't like understood your own
relationship with reality. So there's
like one wish for humanity that I have.
It's like take this as a catalyzing
moment. You're not alone in the
universe. Great. Um, but the real lesson
isn't just you're not alone in the
universe. What do you make of that? The
real lesson is there's far more to
reality than you've been told. And you
have the right to explore that. And what
would you say to the many people who
your story probably resonates very
deeply with? And I'll take it even a
step f further.
Your story could represent, you know,
there are people who've been abducted
by, you know, what they think are, you
know, you know, non-human intelligence
or ETSs. uh you know often they're gray
aliens and they'll see the cover of
Communion, Whitley Streamer's book. And
I've had some of these people on my show
where they'll be at a bookstore and
they'll see it and it'll it'll bring
back these memories for them and for you
it was you know the stress of a startup
uh you know a relationship going south
that brought up your own memories. I'm
sure this show might bring up some
memories for people. How would you
advise them?
>> Yeah. Well, like right now the perfect
container isn't built, right? Um, but
this is a personal venture for me where
I'm trying to build that container
that's like safe, supported, um, and has
the capital and the resources to
actually give people, you know, some
direction, right? So, like in my case
specifically, you know, all of this was
hidden, you know, primarily under
dissociation, right? And if we look at
psychology today, like dissociation is
like the least studied of like trauma
responses. Um, and even if we want to
take this a step further, right, like
it's not just helping gate kids, it's
actually like we are re-evaluating what
psychology is. You know, if we go back
to like there's Carl Young, right, and
he had this kind of spirituality or like
esoteric perspective merged with
psychology and we kind of took like a
lefthand turn uh and ended up with what
we know as now as like the DSM. You
know, I think largely it's not just
helping gate kids, but I think through
the art of helping gate kids and better
like understanding dissociation, you
know, we might be able to build a brand
new book of psychology. Like we're
talking about the non-locality of
consciousness, right? Like how many
psychologists are trained on that dude
to
>> totally know if there is this more um
embedded deep link between mind matter,
I mean even that phrase mind matter
embeds kind of a duality that probably
doesn't exist, right? Uh it changes
psychology wholesale, you know, like uh
and it's kind of more empowering than
some of these like, oh, we're just going
to use, you know, cognitive behavioral
therapy or internal family systems or
Yian symbology or whatever. Like no, you
can you if you can somehow, you know,
change the way your subconscious frames
things, you can really affect the
person's reality and you know, obviously
in negative ways as you've experienced
or extremely positive ways. Totally.
Yeah. You know, I personally think like
the greatest gift to humanity, you know,
that like I could be a part of, right,
is actually helping in the psychology
process because, you know, if we look
today with all these outdated treatments
and people treating symptoms, right, and
never necessarily getting over
depression, you know, never fully
understanding how trauma has affected
them, you know, in their upbringing. Um,
I think that there could just be such a
gift there, too. So, this is something
that we're championing with the
telepathy center. um you know so if
you're like a clinician right if you're
someone that's on this frontier side of
psychology you're willing to think
outside of the box like contact us
contact me um if you're someone with
clean conscious capital right like
looking to support those that maybe have
been um you know targeted this
population of gay survivors please
contact us right um again like the
container for this doesn't exist today
um but it's something that I'm hoping to
build
>> it's a beautiful message man and and uh
I'm really excited to see what you do on
a go forward basis and uh how can people
download uh this new app that you have?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, you can go to the the
telepathycenter.com.
Um we'll be releasing here in June. Uh
check out everything. So excited to
share that with the world. Um that's
kind of like the primary updates. You
can find me at jordanjos.com too. Just
my personal bios on there. Um but really
looking forward to getting this tool in
the hands of everyone and yeah, showing
um hopefully what may be like the start
of a brand new renaissance. Uh I I think
you know my last little message for like
humanity is I I have walked through the
darkness figuratively literally you know
all of it in my life and there's so much
with this disclosure narrative and
paradigm that is conspiratorial and it
is dark and it's not that it's not true.
It's just that we have a moment in time
to take that right-hand path or take the
left-hand path. And while all this may
be scary and completely earthshattering
to some, it's also the potential for a
brand new renaissance for a lot of us
and for a whole new planet to be
basically given brand new tools, uh,
brand new ways of looking at life, brand
new physics. Like, I don't think it's
necessarily something we're going to
figure out in the lab. I think we're
going to figure out within our own
minds. And we may figure out that
there's a correlation to our models of
physics and the way that we believe our
subconscious looks at physics, right?
Like what if the underlying mechanism is
actually inside us instead of outside of
us?
>> This is one of my favorite shows I've
ever done. I I hate to even call it a
show if that feels sacrilegious for the
really intense deep conversation we just
had, but uh I hope you know people can
get something out of it, too. And I hope
you enjoyed it.
>> Yeah. No, I had a blast. Like I want to
keep going. Like we'll have to do
another one.
>> Let's run it back. We do another. And um
yeah, so excited for the opportunity.
Thanks for having me on, Jesse.
>> Oh, dude. It was an honor.
If you've made it this far in the show,
then I know you care enough to hear
about this. Our show, American Alchemy,
is growing super fast. It's bursting at
the seams. We are looking for an amazing
editor to join the team. If you're an
experienced YouTube editor, podcast
editor, trailer editor, or documentary
style editor, maybe you're even a
traditional Hollywood editor and you're
just really into our content and you
want to work on some of the most
mindbending stories in the world. We
really want to hear from you. We're
especially looking for people who are
deep into the content and who have a
real editorial eye. Someone who can dig
through long and sometimes dense
conversations, find the most powerful
moments, build tension, create great
hooks. Basically, people who can turn
these raw conversations into very high
quality, almost cinematic episodes.
Strong technical skills are a
prerequisite, but especially for the
documentaries we make, we really need
somebody with taste who has strong
instincts around pacing, music, sound
design, story structure, you know, all
the things. and big bonus points if
you're genuinely into UFOs,
consciousness, frontier science, and big
questions about the nature of reality.
So, if you're a strong, experienced
editor and you know how to keep
audiences engaged and you want to work
with us on some of the coolest stories
in the world, please email all your
relevant work and your application to
apply atjessseichelsmedia.com.
And if you have a friend who would be
great for this role, please let them
know. Thank you so much and we look
forward to hearing from you and maybe
working with you.