How can people work out the meaning that
they've got in their life? What are the
big questions that they should ask?
>> Yeah. So, um there are three big Y
questions that constitute meaning. And
this actually comes from the work of
Michael Steger, who's a a really good um
social psychologist at uh
uh
in Colorado. And he uh he has the three
parts, the three elements of meaning,
which are called coherence, purpose, and
significance. And they're three Y
questions. Number one is what you have
to have an answer to the question, you
know, why are things happening the way
they are in my life? You know, things
are happening all around me all the
time. Why?
Part of meaning is having an answer to
that. Maybe that's a maybe that's your
religious answer.
Like because of the mind of God. Maybe
that's your scientific answer, because
these are the laws of the universe.
Maybe you're a conspiracy theorist and
say because powerful people are doing
these things. Conspiracy theories are
nothing more than crying out for an
answer to the coherence question, which
is a meaning problem. You know, when so
so if you have a a relative who's going
down the rabbit hole on the craziest
conspiracy theories, don't you don't
throw data in their face and say you
[ __ ] That's the wrong way to approach
it. They're they're having a meaning
crisis. They're having a happiness
crisis is the reason they're doing this
in the first place. So, coherence,
number one. You know, why are things
happening the way they do? Second, why
am I doing what I'm doing? That's
purpose. Purpose and meaning are not the
same. Purpose is
goals and direction, so you can make
progress. So, why am I doing what I'm
doing? If the answer is I don't know,
then you can't make progress, cuz it
means you're just going in circles.
You're just a a a carnival cruise ship
just kind of randomly going around and
round and round and round. It's the
reason I find cruises unbelievably
depressing. They don't go someplace,
right? I'm a teleological individual
like you. I want a goal, right?
And that's purpose. And and so in the in
the
in the research, you know, Sonja
Lyubomirsky's stuff. Have you had her on
the show?
>> She's coming on next week or the week
after.
>> Super good.
>> Yeah.
>> She's awesome. And she's at UC
Riverside. And she does this work on
goals and you'll give students these
just random goals. Like, you're getting
a B- in minus in physics, you know,
let's get a B+ this semester. Just that
goal, they get happier, they get more
directed, life seems better because they
have more meaning in their life. That's
what it comes down to. Even arbitrary
goals work. Better to have meaningful
goals.
And last but not least is significance,
and that's
my life matters. You know, my life
matters to someone, you know, to my dog,
to my wife, to to God, to my kids. And
so that's the love question, and all
these things are completely missing in
modern culture for so many people. You
know, why do things happen the way that
they do? It's just random. I don't know.
Why am I doing what I'm doing? I have no
idea. I get up and I scroll. I get up
and I surf. I get up and I go on a Zoom
meeting for a company I don't really
care about.
And and and you know,
what is the significance in my life? Why
does my life matter? I don't think it
does.
And that's those are the three things to
actually keep in mind.
>> What happens psychologically when life
feels random?
>> When life feels random, then it feels
like anything could happen at any time,
and there is no control. There are no
levers that you can actually pull.
So you you're not an active player in
your own life when there is no
coherence. When you don't see a pattern,
it's a big problem. You know, when you
when you the you remember when you
learned to drive? How old do you have to
be in in the UK?
>> 17.
>> Okay.
And and when you first, you know, you
got a lot of confidence, but when you're
looking at the traffic and you're like
and it's like it's like chaos.
>> Wildly intimidating.
>> It's wildly
>> I was driving a Mini, which is a very
British way to do it, but it was [ __ ]
terrifying. You're like half the height
of everybody else.
>> Yeah.
And you know, any any system that you're
in that doesn't seem to make sense,
that's that that that it tends to feel
really really meaningless because you
don't know what you can actually do to
have some sense of agency. There's no
sense of agency when there is no
coherence. It's what it comes down to.
So, for example, if you believe that
things happen the way they do because
that's what God wills, then you're going
to try to work that lever. You're going
to pray, for example. You're going to
have a relationship with God. If you
believe it's because of the laws of
science, you're going to learn more
about science, and you're going to
actually enter into that particular
dimension. So, for example, I'm a
behavioral scientist. I really believe
in science. I really believe that it's
just like it gives you incredible
amounts of power.
My job is to explain the science and
explain how people can interact with the
science. It's a pure coherence play is
what it comes down to. And if it's all
about conspiracy theories, then I'm
going to get online and, you know, share
them with my friends.
So, that that's why coherence really
matters so that you can have agency over
your life.
>> And why directionless people so
psychologically fragile?
>> They're fragile because they don't know
actually in which direction that they're
going, which means they can't make
progress. Now, remember, this whole idea
of happiness comes from making progress
toward a goal. And there's tons of
really interesting examples of this. The
weight loss literature is super
interesting in this. So,
diets are all effective, and they're all
catastrophic failures is what it comes
down to. Effective in so far as that
almost any diet will make you lose
weight, but they have between an 80 and
95% failure rate after a year, meaning
you gain all the weight back and then
some.
It's a weird industry. It's like a $40
billion industry in the United States
that fails, you
>> It's an ouroboros of nutritional advice.
>> It's craziness. You know, nine out of 10
times
they fail. Um now, now, why why are they
successful? Because
in in economically, it's because
temporarily they make you make progress,
but they ultimately fail because once
you get to your goal, your goal weight,
the reward is never getting to eat what
you would like ever again for the rest
of your life. Congratulations.
That and then you get the arrival
fallacy is what it comes down to. So,
what you want in life is something where
you can just make constant progress. I
want to be a like I want to be a better
dad. I want to be a better person. I
want to create more value with my work.
And that's there's no end to that. I
can't be like, "Hey, well, I got to the
best dad possibly be, so that's all
good." No, I'm I'm I can always work to
be a better husband. I can always work
to be a better friend. I can always work
to be a better citizen. I can always
work to love my country more. I can
always work to actually do something
more important in my work and reach more
people with a with a the the moral
objectives that I have.
And that's what I need. I need goals I
can't meet.
>> [snorts]
>> I don't
I think that the confusing thing is it
if significance is about being valuable
to others and not famous,
why is it the case that modern people
confuse the two?
>> Part of the reason is because um
what strivers they get into there's
actually a pathology that that that is
in the middle of this. Um so, what you
find is that well, certain people
Let me back up a little bit.
Um I work I'm sort of the striver
whisperer. In my work I specialize in
people who do incredible things, right?
And that's just because
it's fun, although it is, but because
that's the kind of books that I write.
You know, people who do amazing things
and still don't have perfect lives.
That's
kind of my area of research
as a matter of fact.
They have a common childhood.
And it kind of looks like this. You
know, super strivers who are never
satisfied and struggle,
they generally speaking um found that
they only got attention and affection
from their parents when they did
something. When they got good grades.
When they made pitcher on the baseball
team. When they made first chair in the
orchestra. When they Right? When they
you know, set up a lemonade stand and
made more money than anybody thought
possible. Whatever it was, right? And
and their parents often their parents
are immigrants or or came from poverty
and they'll reward their kids when they
do a thing thinking that they're
actually wiring in success and happiness
for their kids. What they're telling
their kids is that love is earned.
They're teaching their kids that love is
earned.
And they kids will learn that. And when
your brain is synaptically plastic, boy
will you overlearn that lesson. And then
you will go through life trying to earn
love
over and over and over and over again.
You'll look for If you're a man, you'll
look for women who make you earn their
love,
right? And and then you'll spend your
marriage trying to bring in more and
more and more and more money, for
example. Women will try to stay young
forever by trying to earn their
husband's love.
You'll find that they will surround
themselves with sycophants and yes-men
who are just like fake friends who make
you make these people earn their love
um with gifts and favors and fanciness.
And and you'll surround yourself with
people because you believe that love is
actually earned. Well, the truth is
that's wrong.
Real love isn't earned. It's a free
gift, freely given. It's a grace.
Anybody who makes you earn their love
doesn't love you. That's what it comes
down to. But they don't learn that
because that's actually what they've
what they've what they've and they've
um
uh evolved over the course of their
lives. And they're they're they're
they're they become success addicts,
winning addicts, looking for the
specialness. And and in the modern
economy, when you can metastasize that
from one to your family, to your
community, to your church, to your city,
to
the whole world [snorts]
on the internet, then you're going to be
searching for the adoration of strangers
cuz it's the best possible dopamine hit
that you can get. And life is going to
feel gray if you don't get it.
So, this is a pathology that actually
people have. And the more talented you
are, the more danger you're in.
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