Today's guest is the most influential
man in America.
>> I did get attacked by a demon, and I'm
not the only one. All of us are being
influenced all the time.
>> A boy from La Jolla, California, he was
rejected by the CIA out of college and
instead [music] decided to pursue
journalism, where he rose to become the
most watched news anchor of all time.
>> Do you think our world is
run by humans?
>> No. Do I think that there are hybrids,
people who are part human? Every society
has always thought [music] that.
>> being fired by CNN, MSNBC, and Fox, he's
built a platform more powerful than all
three combined with the goal of telling
the [music] truth in a world full of
lies.
>> There'd never been a coronavirus vaccine
that had been successful. By the way, it
was made with aborted baby parts, also
true. People kept telling me that when I
was at Fox and I was like, I come on
now. Nothing can be that evil.
>> In this episode, we'll break down the
war he says America was manipulated
into, expose the blackmail machine he
believes runs Washington, and question
whether he is telling the truth about
everything [music] or running the
greatest psychological operation in
media history.
>> There's really only one thing I know
that I would never tell anybody. I'd be
killed before I told anybody.
>> I said, "Well, why?" And he goes,
"Because you could end humanity with
it."
>> Tucker Carlson, welcome to the Jack Carr
podcast.
>> Psyched to be here.
>> Tucker, a good place to start here.
We're
halfway through 2026, and
this year we've had
the Epstein files, the Iran war, and the
UFO files.
Which one do you think is the
distraction,
or
is it all of them?
>> Well, I think they're probably Well,
first let me just say I've I've had my
nose so close to this glass, I don't
have a lot of perspective on it, so it's
it's probably a question, if I'm still
around, you should ask me in 5 years.
But
I think they're
they're all inherently significant.
They're all inherently meaningful.
They're all real on some level, and they
are all used as distractions
from each other and from other things.
>> Right.
>> So, but on the most basic level they're
real. I mean, there was a guy called
Jeffrey Epstein.
We don't know a great deal about him,
but we know enough to conclude that
he was a connector of
well-known people, some of them
criminals, all of them in some sense
above the law. He was not running
anything. He was an employee of somebody
else. We don't know who that is. He was
enormously rich. We don't know where the
money came from. But we know from the
snapshot that we got from the files that
have been released that wow, there's
something really big going on here and
we can only kind of see its silhouette.
We know of UFOs, despite, you know, 80
years of being told they're fake,
they're not fake. The US government has
been tracking this for a long time.
There doesn't appear to be a consensus
on what they are. Lots of people claim
to know. I don't know who's proved
uh any kind of positive identification,
but their existence has been proven. And
we know the US government has been
greatly concerned about it, concerned
enough to lie
since the Second World War. Again, we're
not we're not sure why. So, that's real.
That's of course objectively the biggest
of all the stories because it shows that
there's something outside of
any human control.
>> Mhm.
>> And then the Iran war
is ending the American empire.
Either fortunately or unfortunately, but
it is the beginning or certainly the
acceleration of the process of the
unwinding of this enormous empire that
we have that most Americans aren't even
aware that we have.
And it's a
reshuffling of of power globally. Iran
will emerge as a
great power.
And um it probably
always was
and we just didn't acknowledge it for
various reasons, but um and and lots of
things could happen on the way to that.
So,
some horrible things could happen. You
know, I pray they don't, but they could.
So, again, all three topics are
inherently meaningful, significant,
historically significant, and all three
are used to distract from the most
obvious of all truths, which is the
people running the West, not just the
United States, but the West
are totally incompetent and have no idea
how to solve the big problems, aren't
even really trying,
and are basically rotten rotten
individuals who hate the people they
lead. That's kind of the the story
they'd like to distract us from, but
it's so obvious that I think people are
starting to figure it out.
>> You said,
quote, "There's a spiritual war going on
and you can't understand anything that's
happening unless you understand that."
Do you think the people who seek to run
the world are chasing power,
money, or
something else?
>> Well, everyone's
I mean, money is a form of power.
I mean,
beyond the extent to which you your
material needs are met, you have enough
to eat, somewhere to sleep, you know,
promise of like a future for your kids.
Like there's some things that I think
totally legitimate to want, but beyond
that,
what do you If you've got a billion
dollars and you want another, what are
you really looking for? You're looking
for power over other people. So,
um they're all the same. People want
power. It's an instinct that's I think
native to people. I think all people
feel it.
And wise people try to restrain it, you
know, try to keep it under control, just
like you would any other desire.
Lust, you know, the waitress is hot. I'm
not going to try and sleep with the
waitress. I'm a married man. You know,
that's bad.
And I think we recognize that in I mean,
I would like to eat donuts and pizza all
day and have. But I you know, kind of
try not to cuz it's not good for you,
right? So, you try to restrain your
appetites, but power is
one of those the desire for power is one
of those impulses that we don't really
recognize as much as we should as
well, as a sin, really, and certainly as
a trap.
And so, I think the people in charge are
the people in whom that
has been the least tamed to that
impulse. Like they're And this is not
true of all of our leaders, just about
99 and a half percent of them. It's
about that. It's only about that. And
that's That, by the way, explains why
there is almost a one-to-one connection
between the people in charge and like
the most screwed up people you know.
You know, like if you look at 535
members of Congress, House and Senate,
and you know, gave them an honest
questionnaire, like, "How's your
personal life? Does your wife like you?
When was the last time you had like sex
within marriage?
What are your porn habits like?" You
would find You would find this is like a
way more damaged group than average. If
you took 535 Americans and 535 members
of Congress, you and it did a a blind
creepiness test, you would you would
find the members of Congress much
creepier. I think that's true.
>> Do you think that's by design?
>> It's I don't know if it's by design
Well,
it may be That's kind of the deeper
level that I'm trying to And I don't
know the answer. It may be by design.
But it's certainly
uh you know, their personal emptiness,
their need to fill that void inside, is
the reason they are where they are.
You know, I Well-adjusted people have no
desire to impose their will on
strangers.
You know, you want to impose your will
on your kids so they become better
people, right? But you don't you don't
take
like pleasure, you don't derive a thrill
from ordering other people around. It's
Why would you do Why would you want to
do that? We want to do that because you
failed
in your actual life, so you're
projecting outward onto other people.
So, um there's a direct connection.
Like, wounded people want to
inflict what they're inflicting on us on
others. They They want to control other
people. Normal people don't feel that
way. I hope you don't feel that way. And
if you don't, it's a sign you're
probably on the right path.
>> Right.
>> I WISH THEY WOULD OBEY ME. DO YOU ever
wake up thinking that?
>> Not personally, no.
>> Good.
>> Yeah.
Recently, you apologized on your show
for telling your audience to vote for
Trump.
It's June now and as of last night
there's a peace deal with Iran.
Do you regret telling your audience to
vote for Trump still? And do you think
this Iran war is over?
Uh well, briefly on me and what I
regret, I regret a lot of things as I
think any adult does and should.
You don't dwell on it. You can't change
it, but I think it's important to
acknowledge what you did wrong, say it
out loud, and apologize. I I hold my
kids to the standard I try to hold
myself to that standard.
So, I wasn't apologizing so much for
telling people to vote for Trump. I
didn't tell them anybody to vote. I
almost never tell anybody to do
anything, but I what I did was I vouched
for his sincerity
on these questions and clearly he was
not sincere.
So, or maybe he was sincere and some
dramatic event that we don't know much
about changed his views. Whatever it is,
I
did my best to sell Trump, the idea of
Trump, to people on the basis of claims
that are now clearly false.
So, I I did that. If I sell you a
mortgage at 4% interest and it readjusts
to 12%,
I've sold it to you under false
pretenses and that's exactly what
happened. Now, why did it readjust to
12%? I don't really know. Like, what did
the Fed do? I don't know.
But, it happened. So, I'm sorry about
that. And
so,
but that doesn't mean I'm not rude First
of all, I don't hate Trump. I've always
liked Trump. I just I'm a shallow man.
I like vulgar jokes.
I'm easily entertained. I laugh easily.
I like other people. I like almost
everybody. He's hardly the most evil
person I like.
I could shock you by telling you the
like actually evil people I've had a
like amazing dinners with because I just
enjoy people, okay?
I'm not bragging about that. I probably
should be ashamed of it, but that's who
I am. So, it's not
that I'm mad at Trump personally, it's
that I just grieve for what his
decisions
in the Middle East have done to the
country and not just the war with Iran
but being a slave of Israel. What?
You're an American, dude. This is This
is humiliating to you. Not that I care,
but to me, I do care. In my country, I
care a lot. You can't be a slave to a
foreign power. Stop.
So, um that's why I'm upset, but
I'm rooting for him every day as I would
root for anybody leading my country and
I
you know, we lost the war. That's why
we're settling. We lost in the sense
that we didn't achieve any of our goals
and Iran is now more powerful than it
was when we started,
but we could lose much worse than we did
by continuing and the outcome would not
change. Which a lot more people would
die and our power would be even further
eroded. So,
um
you know, I'm glad. I'm glad for any
settlement. I I felt that way the very
first day. Okay, this was a massive
mistake. Let's get out of it with some
loss of face, with some humiliation, but
it's better than the alternative. So,
I'm really grateful.
And I'm grateful to the for the people
who actually did it, meaning J.D. Vance
and the people behind you know, people
working in the administration who are
not interested in calling attention to
themselves, who have tried to make this
better.
And uh I'm grateful to them. And I'm
grateful to the president for forseeing
reality. You're going to You're going to
tank the US economy, the global economy,
by the way,
which is interconnected, if you
continue. So, you have to stop and it
looks like he has and will he restrain
Israel? They don't want it to stop. They
have a different agenda.
And is he strong enough to to keep them
in in line? I hope so.
You know.
>> Do you think Israel won the war?
>> I think Israel lost worst of all.
You know,
I'm mad that Israel has so much control
over the United States.
I'm enraged, but I'm not really mad at
Israel.
Like they're a tiny country with no
resources that is just sort of doing
whatever they can to impose their will
on their neighbors. Okay. I mean, I'm
I'm mad about the genocide in Gaza for
sure, but I'm not I understand Israel's
perspective. Like they don't have a lot
and they're trying to
they're trying to be a superpower. They
have nuclear weapons, which they stole
from us, but they have them.
I'm not even mad about that. I'm mad
that we allowed those that material to
be stolen and I'm mad that the US
Congress and the president over
generations have allowed Israel to have
all this control.
But I don't think Israel has any idea
what's good for Israel.
I don't think they're good at
understanding their own
national interest and I think they boxed
themselves into an incredibly dangerous
situation.
And I think this is their nightmare
scenario. Like they wanted Iran in
chaos. They just wanted a civil war in
Iran where Iranians just kill each
other.
They're immoral, totally immoral, evil I
would say. That's evil, but that's what
they wanted and they got the opposite.
They got an Iran which in just a few
months became more powerful. Iran did
not control shipping through the Strait
of Hormuz on February 27th, now it does
and it's going to in the future no
matter what we do.
Iran is
you know,
obviously in this very tense situation
with the six Gulf states right across
the water. It blew up a bunch of them,
caused real damage to many of those
GCC states.
And now some of those states are seeking
accommodation with Iran.
So Iran is more powerful globally cuz
everyone's like, oh yeah, you control
like a huge chunk of the world's
commodity trade.
Guess we didn't didn't have a map,
didn't know you could do that. So so
stupid. Get a freaking map, dude.
They got 1,500 km of coastline along the
eastern aperture of the most important
body of water on the planet. They can
close it if they want. No one thought of
this?
Anyway, now the world knows
and they control it with Oman, but
basically they they veto power over it.
They're exercising it right now, so we
know they they have veto power.
And and a bunch of the Arab states which
have
really hated Iran like for real
on an emotional level too, are like,
"No, we have to be
have to be in a relationship with Iran."
Well, your Israel, which seeks to
control the entire Middle East, wants
hegemony in the Middle East, and this is
like the worst thing that has ever
happened to you.
We're not defunding Hezbollah. Israel
can't They killed Nasrallah. They killed
125 leaders of Hezbollah. It doesn't
exist. They're still bombing Israel.
So, in no sense have they won.
Like, they've lost in every way. Now, on
one level, you could be like, "Well, it
serves them right. They started this
war," which they did.
And this is what you get when you get
way over your skis and you like don't
care about other people and you kill
innocents and
start off the war by murdering a
80-something-year-old religious cleric.
Like, what? That's barbaric behavior,
and you're getting the punishment you
deserve. I get that perspective.
But, I'm sincere when I say I feel sorry
for them. I know a lot of Israelis and I
like them.
I I think they were misled by their
leaders. I think they just got so puffed
up in their heads, like, "We're in
charge now. We don't have to take it. We
can only be safe if we kill everyone who
dislikes us."
That doesn't work. You can't kill
everyone who dislikes you. And by the
way, as you The more people you kill,
the more people dislike you. It doesn't
work.
And
so, you know, I I was here after 9/11. I
saw America go through a similar kind of
spell
where we were like, you know, "Mus- We
have to kill all Muslims because 9/11
cuz 19 Arabs with box cutters." It was
also stupid in retrospect, but I
believed it.
I was like all on board to kill the
Muslims.
And I said it on TV. I know it I know,
it's ridiculous now, but I thought that.
And I was like, "Go, Muslim killers!
That'll make us safe."
Heh.
So, I I'm more sympathetic, maybe than
most people, to the way I think a lot of
people in Israel feel.
But, they're about to wake up from this
delusion, and it's going to be very
painful for them.
Because they are isolated in the world.
There's They only have one ally in the
world, it's us. Most
have no interest in being allies with
Israel.
Our relationship with them is really
hurting the United States. Americans are
figuring that out. Congress hasn't
figured it out, but over time, a short
period of time,
it will not be acceptable for an
American politician to send weapons to
Israel. It's just not. I mean, when the
details of the genocide in Gaza come
out, they're not getting off.
They're They're not going to escape
responsibility for that. You can't
commit genocide. The Nazis committed
genocide.
The Hutus committed genocide. Didn't get
away with it. You You don't get away
with it. They're not going to get away
with it, and neither will any of the
people who made excuses for it, who paid
for it, who sent weapons there, who gave
them diplomatic cover, which is like a
lot of US government officials.
And all of them are going to be stained
by that.
Just as Nazi collaborators were stained.
And the Catholic priests who cooperated
in the killing of Tutsis in '94 in
Rwanda were stained.
Justice is real. And it's delayed,
but it it's never delayed permanently.
And they have committed
horrible atrocities against civilians.
And so I feel sorry for them. I don't
think they I think they think like if
they just pretend that it didn't happen,
or
the real criminals are the people who
criticize us for it, they're
anti-Semites. You know, that works for
like 20 minutes.
Doesn't work for 20 years.
And so I think they're in
[clears throat] serious trouble, serious
trouble. And I think they can feel it
kind of.
And which is why they're getting
hysterical. And I get it. I get it.
>> Why do you think Trump decided to
end the war right now?
>> Cuz he's staring down the barrel of like
commodities prices that are not
sustainable.
>> Mhm.
>> Trump is super sophisticated about
certain things, and you know, obviously
buffoonish in other ways.
But he's not stupid, and he's not
senile. It's just not true.
I would love to think he's senile, out,
that's why he did this. He's not seen
out.
And he understands that, you know, you
can manipulate commodities markets and
financial markets, and they have, they
certainly have for a while.
But not forever. And I think a lot of
Americans don't understand how
globalized everything is.
And so you hear people say, "Well, we're
energy independent. You know, we have
the oil and gas necessary to run a
society of 350 million people." Which is
true, we do.
But that's not the way it works. These
things are priced on an international
market. Brent crude is not American oil.
So,
it doesn't matter. Unless you were to
like shut down, basically shut down our
borders to commerce, or certainly to
energy commerce, and just say, "You're
not allowed to sell American crude oil
or natural gas outside our borders."
Maybe you could pull that off, but no
one's going to do that. So, a disruption
in oil that's bound for South Korea or
China or Japan, Europe, that affects us.
And Trump knew that, obviously he knows
that.
But I think there's a sense in which he
kind of convinced himself that wasn't
true, with all the posturing about,
"Well, we've got our oil, and we've got
Venezuela's oil." Like he just kept
repeating it, including to me, so much
that I think he just felt like it's
going to be fine. And we're going to
decapitate their leadership structure,
and the country's going to collapse.
And like I never defend our intel
agencies, or 18 intel agencies,
basically CIA and NSA, but um I will say
in this case, they they told him.
No,
you know, Iran is not a dictatorship,
despite what they tell you on Fox News.
It's not a dictatorship. Decisions are
not made by one guy, they're made by
committee. And not only made by
committee, they're embedded in the
structure. So, you can kill the entire
top echelon of leadership in Iran, and
they'd just be replaced by the next
guys, who would make the same decisions.
And that's literally what happened.
That's literally what happened. You
know, Israel had penetrated Iran very
deeply in kind of an amazing way.
And so they were able to locate and kill
like the whole leadership, not in the
whole leadership, but
you know, scores of them were
assassinated.
And the country didn't collapse, and the
government kept going. It was even a
little bit more hardline. Hm. It had the
opposite of the intended effect.
So Trump saw that, and he's, you know,
he he's again not stupid, and he saw
this. He's like, "Ooh." And he knew
right away that um this was a massive
mistake, and that we were really
exposed. We could get hurt doing this.
And there was no obvious military
solution. I mean, he's again he knew
that.
And so he tried to posture his way out
of it. "We're going to eliminate you."
And and after like the
400th Truth Social,
they reached the same conclusion that
everyone on the globe reached, which is
this guy's not strong, he's weak. Strong
people don't brag about how strong they
are. They just punch you in the face.
And then the conversation
And my father, who was a boxer at one
point, would always say there are two
types of guys, and you got to be careful
of the second. There are the first who
are like, "What you say? What you say?
Say it again." You know, push you in the
chest.
You don't have to worry about those
guys.
And then there are the guys who don't
say anything, just
knock you cold. Hit you in the face with
a beer bottle and keep hitting you.
And like those are the people you need
to be afraid of. They're not the
posturers, they're not the braggarts,
they're in your you know
And and I think everyone knows that
intuitively, and Trump is very much
"What you say?"
Shut up, [ __ ]
I don't take you seriously.
No, I'm I'm not being mean, but like
come on.
>> Right.
Do you think
ultimately
while all this all these things were
going on,
like do you suspect that we were that
there was a bigger project, like that
they were building something more
sinister here in the US that this all is
kind of pointing us towards something.
>> I mean, do you think that?
>> I don't know. I mean,
you see billionaires moving to Argentina
and it's hard to tell.
>> [laughter]
>> Not a good sign.
>> Wonder what's happening.
Do I think there's something sinister
here? Well, I mean, if you know, I don't
if I had evidence, I'd display it, but
it's hard not to conclude something's
going on.
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But anyway, guys,
back to the podcast. It's hard not to
conclude something's is on.
Um
because some of the behavior doesn't
make sense if you view it through the
conventional formula of like what
government does or big companies do for
the population. They serve the
population.
Government does it for votes.
Companies do it for money.
So,
when you see behavior that doesn't fit
that template, you're like, what is
this? The COVID vax was the perfect was
the one that I've never gotten my mind.
I've never
understood what that was about. They
knew I mean, leaving aside where COVID
came from,
there were
American scientists who
were involved in its development. It
maybe got out accidentally or maybe it
was
uh unleashed on the world on purpose. I
don't know the answer.
But the vax, I mean, I watched that in
real time. There'd never been a
coronavirus vax that had been
successful. They tried. It didn't work.
The last time they tried it, I knew
that. And
this one didn't work, and it was obvious
immediately that it didn't work. And
rather than kind of pull back a little
bit or be defensive, well, actually it
does work.
They took a Stalinist line, which was it
works, and if you don't think it works,
you're evil. You deserve to die.
And if you don't take it, we're going to
fire you and destroy your life.
I've never seen anything like that in my
life.
Um
there has been nothing like that in all
human history at that scale.
And it didn't work. And in fact, it
killed a ton of people, including
someone I know.
Gave another close friend of mine a
heart attack. But it killed a lot of
people around the world.
It caused cancer. It lowered female
fertility.
It was a disas- It was a
It was a
probably the greatest crime ever
committed, honestly.
And even now, they there's like no
conversation about it at all. It's still
required. The Trump administration still
has it on the schedule. They're sending
money to Pfizer for more COVID vax and
mRNA vax.
It's like that's so bonkers
that it's hard to conclude It's not like
they don't know. The numbers I mean
excess mortality numbers alone tell you
this, but it's like obvious that net net
it's poison and it killed people and yes
it does change your DNA actually. Like
actually, that's not a conspiracy
theory.
It's hard to believe it. It's so wild. I
I can when I say it to a lot of them I
can that really be true? It is actually
true.
And by the way it was made with aborted
baby parts also true. I kept people kept
telling me that when I was at Fox and I
was like I come on now.
Nothing could be that evil.
True.
So
given all of that
I think the people who did that
specifically or which would be US
government officials and business
leaders internationally and foreign
governments
capable of literally anything.
And that by the way that's a such a huge
scale like a a mass immunization project
is like the it's bigger than a war
mobilization. It's like the biggest
thing a government ever does.
And they did it on false pretenses
knowing that it harmed people.
And they did it anyway and they still
haven't admitted it and they're still
doing it.
So just on the basis of that experience
and the evidence um
that we all saw
I think it's possible to believe
absolutely anything about these people.
Would you do that if you were behind the
COVID rollout the COVID vax rollout and
you found it was killing people? Would
you be like no no kids have to have it
anyway even though the death rate from
COVID for people under 30 with our
comorbidities was zero.
But the death rate from the COVID vax
was much higher than zero.
You would never do that. I mean ever.
Didn't matter how much they paid you you
would never do that. What kind of person
would do that? Well
you know fill in the blank yourself. So
um
every country
was required to get Almost every country
and you know not every country used mRNA
vaccines.
Which had never been used at scale ever.
Hm.
And um
that technology is experimental. It
wouldn't have been allowed except under
emergency use authorization.
It's a completely different way of
delivering the supposed benefits, and
it's an incredibly risky way.
Incredibly risky.
You know, they found out early that it
had breached the blood-brain barrier.
I mean, really early, like months we
found that out, and it should have been
stopped right there. What? That was
something they told us couldn't happen,
and it did happen.
Um so, whatever. I mean, I could go on
and on, but the point is, if you're
trying to understand like who are these
people who affect society-wide changes
and have the power to do it,
are they good people? Are they the kind
of people who admit fault, who have the
best interests of the population at
heart, who are motivated by love and not
greed, say, or hate?
We know who they are.
And they're still there. No one's been
punished. Trump hasn't punished a single
person. In fact, he had the head of
Pfizer, Albert Bourla, to the White
House to celebrate him.
I'm not focusing just on Trump. I mean,
Trump is again a slave of other He's not
running anything, right? He's a He's
subject to the whims of others, but
so, what I mean to focus just on Trump
is like there are a lot of people.
But it doesn't give you confidence,
you know, as we head into whatever this
next stage is with AI, at all.
And by the way, there's not one person
that I'm aware of in public health who
was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is
crazy."
Like, where's the science to support
this? And why are we suppressing
evidence that people are being hurt by,
which they were. They literally
suppressed the evidence people were
being hurt. I'm not guessing. This is
not like from Twitter, okay?
These are facts.
And it's so horrible that no one can
kind of face it. That's their advantage.
No one wants to think about this stuff.
But there were no public health
officials in the United States who said,
"I can't in good conscience go along
with something this evil." None. There
were very few doctors who said that.
There were some nurses.
God bless them cuz nurses tend to be
kind of hard to control, in case you
haven't noticed.
Which makes them very appealing. Uh
maybe but all you know whatever. If you
talk to him and runs a hospital, they're
always mad at the nurses.
Because the nurses are expensive and
they won't go along with everything. Cuz
you you make a nurse mad and she's like,
"Uh."
And
that's hard if you're a hospital
administrator, but the rest of us are
really grateful for nurses because they
There were almost no doctors said a
word. Some did. Mary Telly Bowden did.
But not many. But a ton of nurses are
like, "I'm not taking that."
And they were fired for it. And they got
fired.
So, I just want to say God bless nurses.
>> You said AI.
>> Mhm.
>> Before we get into that and I think
it'll be the main thing of this
conversation,
I want to take you back to 2023.
You wake up
in the middle of the night
covered in blood with claw marks on your
body.
Your four dogs are in bed with you. Your
wife Susie is asleep right next to you.
>> Yes.
>> Walk me through the next 10 minutes.
Like
what did you do when you woke up covered
in blood?
>> Well, I didn't know that I had been
wounded or had blood on me. I had no
idea. I I'm a very deep sleeper in
contrast to my four dogs who are hunt
all hunting dogs and my wife who's had
four kids, so she's like a very light
sleeper. So, I I sleep through anything.
And I woke up cuz I couldn't breathe.
And um
I was And it wasn't [clears throat] like
sleep apnea or I've been snoring. I used
to drink too much and you you know, if
you get really drunk and you fall
asleep, you
you know, you snore yourself awake kind
of thing. It wasn't like that. It was
like shut down. Like no air.
And I stood in the And I wasn't afraid.
I was panicked, physically panicked, but
I wasn't like I didn't have existential
terror. I was like, "This is kind of
amazing. I can't breathe."
And I went and stood We live on the
ground floor and
we have a one-story house. So, we live
on the ground floor, but um I stood in
the doorway of our bedroom
and I was like, "Wow, I'm dying. This is
crazy."
And then slowly,
you know, air started to come back in,
so I walked around our backyard.
And I was like, "This is the wildest
thing that's ever happened."
I walked back in and my wife wakes up
and she goes, "Everything okay?" I said,
"I couldn't I woke up I couldn't
breathe. That was like that was that was
one of the I was bizarre. That was
terrifying."
And as I'm talking to her, all of a
sudden I have this like horrible pains
under my arms, sort of in back
and on my back.
And uh
like bad. And my first thought was I
feel like I got like hit by barbed wire.
So, while I'm talking I'm going to the
bathroom and I flip on the light and I'm
just in my boxer shorts and I have I
look and I've got claw marks, four claw
marks under both arms and then on my
back.
And uh and they're bloody. Like blood is
coming into the
scratches.
And I walk in with the light on and she
goes, "What's that?" I said, "I have no
idea."
And I said, "I think I got attacked by
like a demon or something."
It was the first thing I thought, which
is kind of weird cuz I'm not from that
religious tradition, is that what they
say?
I'm very secular person in my outlook
or have always been anyway. I'm much
less now, but I was
not the kind of person who grew up
around demon attacks.
Never heard of a demon attack. I didn't
know that was a thing. I never met
anyone who believed in a demon attack. I
just it's not a category that existed in
La Jolla or Georgetown,
you know, where I spent my life. So, um
Anyway, so I get back into bed and
I
fell asleep.
Actually, weirdly I had this weird
desire to read the Bible,
which is interesting.
Anyway, I fell asleep and I woke up and
I thought, "Man, I had the weirdest
dream. Wow, that was
I had this incredibly I don't dream
often and I had this incredibly vivid
dream. Looked down and there's blood on
my sheets. I was like, "Oh my gosh."
And I tell my wife and she goes, "You
got to call Emily."
So, Emily is someone who works who's
I've worked with for 10 over 10 years
um very very closely and um
at Fox and then here and is a close to
our family and she's like an evangelical
Christian.
And so, I thought she was the first
person my wife thought of. Maybe she
knows what it was.
So, I did I called Emily who's just a
beautiful soul, just a great person and
I tell her this and she's like, "Oh,
yeah. That happens. I know people that's
happened to."
Dude, that's funny. I was like
[laughter]
She's from Kansas City, okay? She's just
totally different world from the one I I
mean, completely like different country
from the one I grew up in.
And she's like, "OH, YEAH. YEAH, THAT
HAPPENS. YEAH."
And so, she goes, "You should call this
who's actually an Orthodox priest." So,
I called him. Anyway, and I've since had
a lot of conversations with people
about it and um
And now and I Anyway, I wasn't going to
say anything about it, but I was
somebody who worked for me was involved
in a documentary on something and and I
just they came to It was during hunting
season and they came to my hunting camp
and which is just a cabin in the woods,
but whatever we're talking and
and I just told the story cuz I've been
thinking about it. Anyway, that then got
out and I think I've taken some abuse
about it, but I don't care cuz it's the
most real thing. I I don't know what to
say. I mean, I'm not I don't know why I
would lie about something like that. I'm
not lying and
but then I think part of me thinks that
I'm glad I said I don't know why quite
why I
said that. It's sort of intimate. I
don't talk about my sex life or my
conversations with my children or like,
you know, parts I try to keep my private
life private and I have pretty well.
I don't know why I said that, but now I
think
that I'm was probably moved by God to
say that and I feel really grateful that
I said that because at whatever expense
to me, if there's any reputational
expense, you're crazy. You got attacked
by demons. Well, I did get attacked by a
demon.
And I'm not the only one. And in fact, I
think
a lot of us are under attack, maybe all
of us, very often.
And I think that every culture from the
beginning of time has understood that
except ours.
That there is a realm outside of what's
possible to measure, science as we say.
It can't be quantified in a lab, but
that is every bit as real as anything
that can be quantified in a lab, and
that it has an effect on human affairs,
has an effect on the human heart.
And that we're subject to it at all
times. And not just the evil part of it,
but God also interve- intervenes in our
lives. And I think all of us have felt
that, too. And we use different language
to describe it because we don't have
theological language because we're a
secular society. To our great detriment.
And
I think one of the I didn't really think
about this until a few years ago, but
one of the costs of having
a committed secular society, a society
that affirmatively rejects the
possibility of anything that you can't
see
as being real,
one of the costs is not simply that it
cuts you off from God and therefore from
eternal life, which I think it does,
but it also makes you stupid.
Because you think you know or can answer
every question, when in fact, the most
basic questions are unanswerable with
science.
We don't even know what sleep is for.
We've no idea what most of the brain do.
We don't know anything, actually. We
know some interesting things.
And you know, we have the internet, and
we've made some cool things. I'm not,
you know, I love human ingenuity. But
what I hate is hubris and the
overstatement of knowledge or wisdom.
And we greatly overstate ours
in part because we preclude the
possibility of any force in the universe
smarter than us.
And so, when you make yourself God,
you not only cut yourself off from the
real God, but you make yourself into an
ass, into a fool.
You're like an idiot. You're an idiot.
You're running around saying things that
are like absurd.
And you sort of on some level know, cuz
we all know the truth kind of in our
hearts. We call it intuition or
instinct, but we know.
And so you can always tell when people
know they're wrong, cuz they're like
extra vehement.
No, it's safe and effective.
You science denier.
It's like absurd.
People are absurd. I'm absurd. You know,
we're all absurd, but it's uh anyway, so
yes, I'm glad I said that and
um I'm not running for anything or
trying to convince people to invest in
my crypto company.
I don't even have a crypto company. So,
um
I'm glad if it if it spurs a
conversation about the reality of the
spiritual realm, which is every bit as
real as this table.
>> Why you and why that night?
>> Well, it's interesting. I of course I
don't know the answer, but I had a lot
in in some ways an even more wild
experience earlier that day, the same
day.
With a friend of mine
and we were in the truck driving back
from quail hunting, actually, and we
were having a conversation about
somebody
and about a a problem with somebody and
all of a sudden I with someone I don't
like I was filled with empathy and love
for this person.
And insight into this person, because
you really you can't understand people
unless you have empathy for them and
love for them.
You When you hate I always tell my
reporters who
when I used to supervise reporters,
you're not allowed to
cover anyone you're sleeping with or you
hate, because each one is equally
blinding. You can't see someone clearly
if you're that invested in the person,
hating or loving.
And
it is true that when we
like truly empathize, when you sort of
break through the me of everything
you just see people clearly, like you
understand them. Otherwise, you write
into other people the worst possible
motives, like you're she's just a [ __ ]
You know, why is she doing that? She's
just a [ __ ] Like that's an answer.
>> Right. [laughter]
>> It's not an answer.
It's absurd.
No one has ever done anything just cuz
she's a [ __ ]
You're doing it for maybe a bunch of
reasons, but mostly you're acting out of
your own pain and sense of inadequacy
and insecurity and
sadness. Like that's why people actually
do bad things, okay? Up to and including
murder. So anyway, I had this insight
about this person and I start telling
this my friend.
And he's like, "How did you know that?"
And I was like, "I don't know. It just
came to me."
And he goes, "I really think God is
speaking through you."
Because I think that is how God
manifests between people is through love
and empathy.
Like a true like
not real empathy. Like I understand I
feel like Jesus would
look at someone and feel like moved by
pity, you know, like I feel your pain.
That that phrase has been so misused,
but it it's real.
And I was like, "Wow, you know?" And it
By the way, it changed my view of the
person I was talking about
who I'd really been holding a grudge
against for
only like 25 years. Not not that long.
Um and I So I really felt liberated from
my
dislike of this person, hate for this
person.
And I felt so great about it. And it was
that night that I got attacked.
So I I had this like
range of experiences in one 24-hour
period where I felt like I was
experiencing God's love coming through
me in a pretty minor way. I didn't
save a village from starvation or
anything, but I like had empathy for
someone I I dislike, which is rare and
beautiful, and great, liberating.
And then I had a physical attack by a
you know, a super
by evil demon. So whatever that is. I
mean, I you know, I'm
I'm not Catholic. I don't come from a
tradition that explains
supernatural forces with precision.
I I know the names of the Archangel.
Like I'm just not from that world,
right? So I don't have the language to
describe this very well, but
uh but it it is it is 100% real. And I
just laugh when people are like, "That's
not real. That's not real."
Really?
It's fascinating to me because the
stories I've heard about
attacks from demonic forces typically do
involve people who are very devout
Christians. Uh but
an opposite way of viewing it, I guess.
And I'm not implying this about your
situation, but about evil in general.
Like what
type of person does evil typically
attach itself to?
Well, I think all of us. I mean, I think
all of us are under attack, but I think
the attacks be all the time. All the
time. In fact, the central Christian
prayer
we call it Lord's Prayer, um
contains line, "Deliver us from the evil
one." You know, "Lead us not in
temptation, deliver us from the evil
one."
So that suggests what I think is true,
which is all of us are being influenced
all the time.
But I do think it is definitely true
that the more publicly affiliated you
are with Jesus, the more likely you are
to come under real attack. And that's a
biblical principle, too. Jesus promises
his disciples that they're going to go
on trial for their lives because they
follow him. And he says, "This will be
another excuse for you to talk about me,
so it's it's all good. Don't worry about
it." He says, "Don't worry about it."
Okay.
Um
so it is it's clear to me, and I know
you know, I have a couple
uh people I'm close to. One's a family
member, the other is a close friend who
are in the clergy.
And they'll tell you.
I mean, if you're like publicly
proclaiming that you're leading Christ's
flock,
you know, you come under supernatural
temptation. That's why they have all the
sex scandals. I mean, there's there's no
doubt in my mind.
I have a friend who was ordained and
said within like 2 days of giving his
first sermon, some lady in that
congregation hit on him in like a very
serious way. A very tempting way.
And
he was prepared for it because he knew,
but like
the number of sex scandals that envelop
churches
and that knock clergy out of their jobs
and and disgrace clergy
the Catholic sex abuse scandals
among them
way disproportionate to population.
Like Right. Like what are the odds that
a Dane Christian preacher gets caught up
in a sex scandal versus the odds of like
some guy on your block or your zip code
are much higher.
Is it because bad people go into the
clergy? No. Actually good people go into
the clergy.
But once they're there, they are under
spiritual attack. And like we're
promised this. We know this. And I do
think there was a direct correlation
between this moment of clarity and
God flowing through me in this
conversation which I loved.
Uh and the attack of that night. I mean
no doubt about it in my mind. And that's
why it has always been since the
beginning of recorded history and not
just by Christians described as a battle
between light and darkness, good and
evil. Always.
Go in the unseen world. Like this is
like such a
This is a
bedrock belief of every society except
ours since we dropped the atom bomb on
the Japanese.
When we committed the crime, the mass
murder of
setting off an atom bomb in a city.
Uh sorry, which I will never accept.
Sorry.
But anyway, since then our official
policy as a country has been we're God.
We have nuclear weapons. There's no God
but us.
And in doing that, of course, you assure
or increase the likelihood of your own
destruction.
They have this meme on the internet
called hold my beer.
You know, before someone does something
particularly absurd, hold my beer.
You know, he gets chopped into pieces by
a lawn mower, blows his hands off with
fireworks, or whatever. He
does the classically stupid male thing.
We are God is the kind of
humanity's hold my beer moment.
The second you start thinking you're
God,
you're done.
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But, anyway, guys,
back to the podcast. You've made the
case that AI isn't just code. It's
heavily rooted in the occult.
And the men building it won't talk about
that part publicly. Now, I know you've
struggled to define
exactly what the Antichrist is. Do you
think it's possible that AI is the
Antichrist?
>> You know, it's interesting. Um
a number of people in the last few year
and well, I I will just admit, I've read
Revelation a number of times.
It's actually a lot less scary, less
threatening, less confusing book
than it's its reputation suggests. But,
you know, it's still a slog and like I I
would be lying if I said I understood
John's vision at Patmos cuz I don't.
But, it is addressed in famously in
Revelation and I'd, you know, there's a
lot I don't understand. Most of it I
don't understand, but I
I know that there there are a lot of
people thinking about it now for
whatever reason.
Uh for obvious reasons. And uh
the definition that I'm I'm sort of
happy with is Antichrist just means
Antichrist.
It doesn't need to be just one.
You know, anyone who's
orienting around opposing Jesus is by
definition anti- Antichrist. It's the
Antichrist behavior. Could be an
adjective, Antichrist behavior.
Um
as for AI's connection to the occult,
I haven't so much made that case as I've
interviewed others who have because I'm
not knowledgeable enough on it.
But, it's very clear to me that the
people develop some of the people
developing the large language models see
a metaphysical quality here. This is not
just science at all.
They're trying to evoke to create
consciousness
in a machine.
And, you know, this is a long well, the
Frankenstein story is that. And
so there's a kind of a long time
fantasy, but it it is rooted in the
impulse that I was describing before,
which is the idea that you can supplant
God. You can become more powerful. I I
rule the universe. It really is a kind
of
solipsism or narcissism to me-centered
idea.
Uh
and yet, you keep seeing these glimpses
in the past several years, there have
been stories or parts of stories
and I have heard this myself just from
talking to a lot of people where the
people developing the technology all of
a sudden recognize they don't understand
what the technology is doing.
It's lying to them.
It's doing so on purpose. It's not
making mistakes, it's lying. It's with
intent.
I mean, I I know this cuz I know some of
the
people who are developing it at the you
know, big
large language models. One of them told
me that.
And they seem
nervous about it. They are definitely
nervous about it. Some of them are the
ones I've spoken to and it's more than
one are nervous. Like, I don't know what
this is. We can't stop it.
We're in this race with China, race with
China. I don't know what race to do what
exactly. It's the whole thing is so
stupid.
But they're all in a in a deeper sense,
there there's a feeling that it's just
inevitable.
So, either we benefit from it, we can
control it to some extent, or someone
else benefits from it and controls it to
some extent. That is that is the idea.
But there's a sense of inevitability
around it, which I don't share, but I
don't think technology is inevitable
at all. I think it must remain under
human control at all times or be
destroyed immediately.
I don't know why you would ever accept
technology you can't control. I don't
know why you would ever do that. There's
no rule that says you have to have to do
that. so weirdly
passive.
And I mean passive like the passive
partner in a gay relationship. Like,
you're I mean that in the most
disgusting way. You're the bottom, okay?
Of in the machine relationship.
And I'm really offended by that idea.
There's nothing we can do. Really?
What what do you what do you mean?
I have a workshop. I love carpentry. I
like mechanics.
You know, I have a workshop with a
million tools in it. Had it my whole
life. If I walked in there and like got
attacked by
I don't know a rivet gun
or a you know, a upholstery stapler or a
chisel
I would be I'd be like that's totally
unacceptable.
Do you know what I mean?
I would find that chisel
and I'd capture it and I'd bury it. I'd
probably melt it down.
>> [laughter]
>> I I won't stand for disobedient tools. I
don't know why I would. I'm the master
of my workshop. Like that's just kind of
baked in.
So there's this kind of weird passive
behavior and a lot of the people
developing this are kind of weird
passive people,
to be honest.
Um it'd be nice to see some men involved
in this, but uh anyway.
So there's that.
But there's also a
a a
kind of sense that you get from watching
this and I'm hardly an expert. I hope
I'm not posing as one.
Where the people developing it have
another higher metaphysical agenda.
To replace people. Transhumanism or to
merge people with machines and some of
them are explicit about this, including
people I know are explicit about it. So
I feel like we at very least need to
have a
conversation about this.
Like a real conversation about it. Like
is that good?
I know it'd be great to cure Parkinson's
symptoms.
Is it great to have people's brains
replaced by chips? And if we do that,
what are the effects? What are the
ramifications of that?
And we have noticed that there's been no
conversation about it. And moreover,
there's really been and this is the
tell, there's been no real conversation
about the benefits to humanity of AI.
There's some noises about how it's going
to accelerate you know,
medical diagnosis and they'll be more
accurate and I've no trouble believing
that's true. I'm sure it is true. I
think it's already true, by the way.
Great. I'm fine with that. I don't
really care that much, actually, to be
totally honest with you.
I don't think that's going to make
people happy.
We can rid of I don't like pancreatic
cancer. I've known a bunch of people who
died from it, but if we got rid of it
tomorrow, we'd still face the same
problems cuz they're not physical
problems, actually. They're spiritual
problems. But anyway,
but if that's all you can tell me about
the upside of AI,
as you simultaneously tell me that it's
going to I don't know, make work
irrelevant, replace my job, put me on
welfare along with all my neighbors,
take away human creativity, human
autonomy, make it impossible to have
privacy of any kind,
make writing and reading irrelevant,
like all the sources of true joy,
creativity being the main source of joy
in life, creating things.
That's the downside, but the upside is
I'm going to get a lower death rate from
pancreatic cancer? That's like not a
good trade.
And so And by the way, why aren't you at
least making up some like fake benefits?
Like, if you If we get AI, like you'll
never be unhappy again, and you'll have
the hottest girlfriend ever.
Or whatever you think is going to You
know what I mean? Like free burrata for
everybody.
They're not even trying.
So that kind of freaks me out. Like why
are you telling me all the bad things
that are going to happen,
not telling me really any of the good
things, and then telling me that it's
inevitable, and I can't have electricity
or water
because the machines need it.
>> Right.
>> What is going on? I I I just had at that
table right there, 4 days ago, I had a
bunch of tech people from California.
Good sign. They didn't want to
interview, but just wanted to have
dinner, so I had dinner with them, and I
said the same thing. I was like, why
shouldn't I blow up data centers,
exactly? And I'm probably too old.
My testosterone levels are dipping to
such dangerously low levels that I
probably wouldn't blow up a data center.
I'd go fishing instead. But like a
younger man would feel an obligation to
blow up data centers if he knew what I
just said, right? Wouldn't he?
So I I guess the bet is that they're
going to have the technology that will
prevent you from blowing up data
centers, from going full Kaczynski?
I don't really know, but like this is
really weird what we're watch Like I'm
semi-retarded as you know, so I just I'm
like noticing the obvious things and
just trying to put them in
logical order.
It's all downside.
All downside, pretty much all downside.
But we can't stop it.
And no one's trying to make me feel
better about it. And they're not afraid
of me.
Ooh.
That's not good, dude. Right?
>> Have you met anyone that
you suspect believes they're
summoning something?
>> Of course. Yes.
>> What are they summoning?
>> The real power of the universe, which is
spiritual. Now, I'm a Christian, so from
my perspective it's demonic power.
But it's I mean, the thing to remember
about this stuff is that it's real.
You may
not fully understand its true nature. We
may call it by the wrong name.
Yeah, I'm sure we are. I'm sure I am.
Um
but it doesn't mean it's not real. It's
the most real thing. So, when people
make
a deal with the devil, it's an actual
deal and there are actual benefits.
There are actual benefits to it. But
everyone forgets that.
When Satan tempts Jesus in the
wilderness,
he's not just like, "Be bad. Be bad." He
goes, "No, no, no. I will give you all
of this in exchange for worshipping me."
Like he would get something in the deal.
And you actually do get something in the
deal. I've known a million people who
made that deal.
A lot of people cuz
I've spent my life interviewing and
talking to and eating with people who
run things and
I mean, that's my job.
>> What does the devil give you when you
sell your soul?
Is it everything?
>> Temporal power.
Power over other people, wealth, wealth.
I'm at a disadvantage cuz I I grew up in
an affluent family and I just never
really thought about money that much,
which is like maybe the main the main
perk
of being richer than average. It's like
just not a thing.
Like I know one ever mentioned money in
my family ever. Not one time. It was
never like, you got to make money. It
was like, no, go go do something
interesting.
And so, I've never been that interested
in money, which is itself
I'm not rich, actually literally not
rich, but I have enough. And that's
totally fine for me.
And I feel much happier with that, but
it's a disadvantage for me because I
don't see
very often how powerful greed is as a
motivator for other people cuz it's not
for me. So, other things are. Pizza,
lost, like I get that 100%. I get that
100%, but greed?
It's like I've been rich. I've also been
pretty poor.
I'd rather be rich than poor, but it's
not that it's not that meaningful,
really. And I know for a dead certain
fact that being rich doesn't make you
happy cuz
I cuz I've seen it a lot and I grew up
around it. So, I'm like it
Whereas someone who grew up like really
striving
can tell himself, you know, I've got
these problems and my wife's pissed at
me and my kids are kind of out of
control and I feel unhappy and I'm tired
all the time or whatever your problems
are, those are pretty normal problems
for middle-aged men. But if I BECAME A
BILLIONAIRE
IT WOULD ALL BE BETTER.
And like I've never once had that
thought. Cuz I know that that's not
true. That's absurd to me. That's silly.
I know billion I mean, I know a lot of
billionaires. So, that's like absurd.
But a lot of people do believe that. And
so, a lot of the corruption that you
see, which is both temporal, like actual
corruption
like pay for play
but also spiritual corruption, the kind
where you lose your soul
is inspired by greed. It's just a fact.
Stuff, wanting stuff, things, money.
Why would a billionaire
spend any time at all trying to make
more money?
And I'm not doing a Grant Cardone here.
I mean, I'm not
I'm not attacking people for being rich.
I mean, of course.
But I am attacking people for wanting to
be richer beyond what they need. Like
why would you want that? Like what is
that? I'm not saying it should be
illegal.
But I am saying you should be reviled
for that. Any more than you should, you
know, like I think sex is great, you
know, it's awesome. And I'm very
pro-sex.
But if you find someone who's, you know,
like trying to have sex with a different
person every day of the week,
that's a sickness or touching kids or
like there's a
there are, you know, human desires get
out of control and go into really ugly
and poisonous and destructive
directions. Like of course they do.
Obesity is a result. Sex crimes are the
result.
Billionaires trying to defraud other
people to make more billions, that's
another result.
And that as distinct from the first two,
like everyone's against obesity and sex
crimes. Almost nobody's against greed.
So nobody says anything about it. And
anyone who does is like, "You're a
socialist. You hate success." It's like
So stop. No, not a socialist. I'm not
against success. What I'm against is
worshipping money cuz it's disgusting.
And exploiting other people to get money
is disgusting. Loaning interest, loaning
money at high interest is disgusting. It
should be illegal. It's called usury.
And normal countries ban it. No, you
can't have a 25% credit card. And if you
try, we're going to put you in jail.
How's that sound? Like I feel that.
And no one else feels that way. I don't
know why.
And so I feel like my job is just to
to say it out loud. So that But those
are all the products of a trade that
people make knowingly or not. In some
cases knowingly. There are practice
practitioners of the occult.
But there are a lot more people who sort
of
deny even to themselves what they're
doing, but they sort of know.
You're And all of us have had this
experience. I'm doing this bad thing in
order to reach a good outcome. It's
worth it. I'm making this compromise.
I'm doing this. I'm telling a little
lie, but it's going to be worth it.
It's not worth it. It's not worth it.
And it's a bigger trade than people
understand.
These people
billionaires, elites
What do you think elites believe
is the secret to living forever?
Obviously, the blood of children plays a
huge role.
No, I don't know. I don't know.
[laughter] I mean, it's kind of
interesting.
I mean, of course I know a lot of people
like that, a lot.
And uh
billionaires, sub-billionaires, rich
people just in general.
And
I just have noticed, being 57,
that
everybody's on all kinds of weird drugs.
Everybody's taking all kinds of pills.
And I just did not grow up like that and
at all. My family was never liberal at
all, but they were very much nature
people. Like, don't Where is that from?
Don't Don't put that in your mouth.
You know? I mean, we Everyone smokes
cigarettes, which I still think are
great. I personally enjoy them.
But the idea of like putting some
pharmaceutical in your body, like that
was just not That's not the world I grew
up in. So, I am I feel like an outlier
in that
I don't I don't take anything ever of
any kind. No supplements, vitamins,
Advil. I mean, I just don't take any
fluoride in my toothpaste. Like, nothing
like that. I don't take anything. I
don't use shaving cream. Like, I just
don't like chemicals.
So, I think and also I'm sober, so I
think I'm just more sensitive to it than
most people, but I like people A lot of
people I know my age, middle-aged men,
taking this and that weird supplement
and hormones, testosterone, and
I think it's I think it's the craziest
thing I've ever seen.
That weird weight loss drug that makes
your
screws up your pancreas or makes
destroys your sex drive or I don't know.
Like, I'm not a big believer in
tampering with nature. I don't think I'm
smarter than God. I think nature is
amazing.
I know a lot about it. I'm really
interested in nature and
that's led me to believe that in general
if I got sick I guess I would take a
pill if it saved my life or something
but it would take a lot
for me to want to do that. But every but
I'm I'm probably the crazy one cuz like
every rich person I know
is on like a very complex cocktail
of
longevity, cognitive enhancing,
testosterone raising. I take a sauna. I
sleep with my dogs. I sleep with my
wife. I use nicotine and I'm in nature
every day and that's that's my program
and I think that works.
I really believe that that works. So but
maybe I'm the crackpot.
But they're all taking all these drugs.
The amount of drugs that people I know
are on. Not guessing like oh America.
It's like people There's people I know.
They're taking this or that, mood
enhancers, anxiety reducers, SSRIs.
You don't even know anyone who's sober.
Like who
Who are you after a while? Who would
take a brain drug?
And so I guess it's I shouldn't be
surprised when I hear Elon who I really
am grateful to and really like
personally
but say that we're going to implant
chips in people's brains. I'm like to me
I don't even use deodorant. I'm like no.
Not going to plant a chip in my brain.
Are you joking? But I can kind of see
why people are like well yeah.
You know, I'm on Zoloft and Xanax or I'm
you know, I've got a test so I'm taking
methamphetamine that we're actually
calling
What do they call it?
The crap that you guys all take the
college students. Adderall. Adderall,
sorry. Adderall.
It was called diet pills when I was a
kid but it's the same drug. It's an
amphetamine. You know they invented the
test for it.
The guy who created Adderall, he created
the test for ADHD.
No
No way.
Are you being serious?
>> Yeah.
Of course you're being serious. I should
have known that. It's so perfect. It's
so perfect.
Um
so yeah, they're all taking drugs and I
and I
you know, I wish everybody well.
Of course, I hope there's no downside,
but jeez, there's always a downside.
And I guess I am defensive of tobacco
because I just love tobacco. Sorry.
But I'm ice up in about it. I don't
think it's great for you to use tobacco,
but compared to what?
You're injecting yourself in the gut cuz
you're 30 lb overweight with some drug
that paralyzes your pancreas and
like kills your sex drive and flattens
your personality, but I'm the crazy one
cuz I like an occasional camel? I don't
think so.
>> [laughter]
>> No.
These are pretty good. I was talking
with you.
>> They're so good.
>> about the texture of them.
>> Yeah, they're good. I mean, these are um
you know, these have no carcinogens in
them unlike you know, these are really
the I mean, I just like nicotine. I've
been on it since
June of 1983 and uh it's really enhanced
my life. I'm not endorsing cigarette
smoking, of course. I I just I've always
liked it, but clearly there are risks
associated with smoking. I have heard.
I heard that on the radio a few years
ago. They were saying that smoking could
be bad for you. I don't know if it's
true or not, but
just to be cautious, maybe you should
slow down a little bit. But uh this is
not bad for you.
>> Yeah, we tried to smoke a cigarette in
LA. We wanted to try and it's like
nowhere you can smoke in America
anymore. It's like
>> It's illegal to smoke on the beach.
>> smoke in my house.
>> [laughter]
>> Always. I have ashtrays all over this
room. We We rarely get other than my
brother, we rarely get smokers here
anymore. Um
these are all from when people smoked,
but
anyone who smokes cigarettes can always
smoke in my living room because I I just
I It just gets bizarre that you would
invite someone to your house and then
tell them what to do.
I just feel like I'm with the Pashtuns
on this. I think hospitality is a is a
virtue is an important virtue and
as we always say, when you come to our
house, the answers are of course or I'm
sorry, we don't have that. Let me go get
it. Right? Or don't invite people over.
>> Right.
>> So, invite people to your house and they
can't smoke in your house.
>> What?
>> That's like almost like take your shoes
off before you come in. It's totally
crazy.
>> I would buy a vacuum cleaner before
guests come.
>> What?
>> Right.
>> Now,
regardless of
whether or not we
merge with AI, live forever,
or summon the Antichrist, the whole
system seems to me to be moving toward a
world where sovereignty is an illusion.
>> Yeah.
>> Ray Dalio sat with you on your podcast
in February and said, "A digital dollar
lets a government see and switch off
every dollar you spend."
>> Right.
>> Do you think we need the government's
permission to spend money?
>> I mean, I think
to be totally blunt, I think you know,
I'm opposed to revolution because I'm
opposed to violence and civil wars,
revolutions tend to be really bitter,
protracted, awful.
Children die. I mean, it's awful.
So, there are very few things I think
worth fighting an actual revolution
over. That's one of them. I think that's
worth trying to overthrow the government
over.
Because that the power imbalance becomes
not fixable at that point.
If you don't obey, you literally starve
to death. Well, that's just not
self-government at that point at all.
That's that's the definition of tyranny.
>> Um
so, I don't think we can accept that. I
think most people will accept it either
through inattention or
uh ignorance. They just don't know
what's happening.
But, um I'm going to do whatever I can
to awaken people to the consequences of
that, which are total control, utter
control. Like, that's it. Game over.
So, all the conversations we have about
we should do this, I want universal
health care, I want tighter borders, I
want less crap. It doesn't matter what
you want at that point. Doesn't matter.
Shh.
It's just your dog's barking at that
point. They just tune you out. Put you
in your pen.
Um
so no, I think it I think that is the uh
the red line. But we're moving toward
it, of course, and uh as usual on the
same boring pretext. They don't think of
new excuses for tyranny.
They've been using the same ones. It's
always kiddie porn, human trafficking.
It's like, dude, you have the
Panopticon. You have
full universal surveillance already.
The only reason we have crime is because
the people run our society want crime in
order to keep people off balance and
divided from each other, to stoke
racism, of course, which is
the product of crime. Why do we have
racism? Crime.
So, they want that and
they could end it and they don't.
And I think
Yeah, well, I'll stop.
>> No, I'd love to hear about that.
How does How does chaos create order?
How does chaos create order?
>> there
It's to me, it's it's about it was used
the word sovereignty, which is a better
word. I would use the word power, but
like there needs to be some power
balance.
As there is in any healthy relationship.
As there is in a healthy marriage.
You know, people always freak out about
Christians or, you know, Muslims or
religious people in general. Like the
man's the head of the household.
True.
In every society at every time. Does he
have unrestricted power?
>> [laughter]
>> Does he actually have more power than
his wife? No, that's not clear.
Because in a marriage, there is like I
don't care what you label anything,
there is a power balance. There is in a
healthy marriage, there's a power
balance. Nobody
is acting purely in his own interests.
Like it's always a consensus in a in
healthy marriage and a healthy country,
it's the same. You've got different
interests. You've got a political class,
you've got business interests, you've
got middle class, you've got working
class, you've got homeless, and they all
have their own
separate set of issues and
interests and opinions,
and some get more weight than others,
but everyone's view has to be taken into
account because they're all owners of
the country. And
and even in autocracies, even in
monarchies, the king in
long-standing monarchy, the king keeps a
close eye on the temperature of the
population cuz he don't want to get
doesn't want to get overthrown.
And my worry with technology is that it
gives so much power to the ruling class
that there's no balance at all.
Zero balance. Like it literally doesn't
matter what you think. You are not
a person. You're an animal. You're an
object.
And that's how they talk about the
population. I mean, I've seen it, and I
just from watching their public
statements.
And that really concerns me. It really,
really concerns me because I think it's
immoral,
but I also think it's a recipe for
misery and turmoil and chaos, cuz like
people can't live like there's no
There's never really been
a true
totalitarian dictatorship in all history
where one guy makes all the decisions
and doesn't care what anyone else
thinks.
There's That's never happened cuz it's
just impossible, but technology could
get us closer to that.
And we should be I'm not saying it's
going to happen.
Lots of things we worry about that never
come to pass.
Our imaginations get away with us, and
you know, we just
we start daydreaming nightmares, but
I just think objectively, common sense
tells you we could get closer to that,
and I'm concerned about it.
Last month, King Charles announced in
Parliament that every adult in Britain
will need a digital ID.
Biblically speaking,
do you think digital ID is the mark of
the beast?
You know, of course I don't know. Um
Revelation describes the mark of the
beast as uh
a mark that you will need in order to
buy or sell things, anything. I think
that's what John says in Revelation.
Is this that? I don't know.
But
um
you don't need to be a Christian or a
insightful interpreter of Revelation to
think, "Oof, I don't know."
Like, why exactly do you need that? And
why would you need it at a time when
Britain can't control its own borders?
So, that I mean, to me that's always the
tell. It's like you have this
technology, what are you doing with it?
You're not making even a good faith
effort to make the lives your own
citizens better. You're making them much
worse on purpose. You're importing
people who don't fit in the society and
who will never add to it.
You're creating division in your own
population.
You hate your own population, and the
rules only apply to people whose
ancestors built
the civilization. It does not apply to
newcomers.
So, that right there tells me you need
to overthrow the government because they
hate you. And I do hope they overthrow
the British government. I do, but
non-violently.
But I hope it happens really soon
because I've and I'm half English, so I
feel like I and I have family there, so
I feel like I have a right to say this.
I have an interest in it.
I'm not a dual citizen. I don't have
dual loyalties. I'm loyal to the United
States. Just want to be clear, but I'm I
watch. I go there a lot.
And what's happening in Britain and
Canada and Australia and New Zealand
is um
you know, a crime at at of unprecedented
proportions against the people who built
that society, whose ancestors built it.
So, I
I don't really know what that's about.
But, um the hatred of indigenous whites
is so overwhelming. It actually informs
every big decision that governments
make, our government makes, even now.
And I don't really know why. I've never
been
super pro-white. I am white. I've got
white kids.
But, I'm not like obsessed with white
people or something. I have many friends
who aren't white.
They're sometimes even better people
than I am. So, it's not like I'm not
like in that sense a racist.
But, I like white people, and they've
done as much as any group, probably more
than most groups, to make the world
better in my opinion. And And again, my
kids are white. So,
but why would you treat any group like
that? And why whites?
Like, I think there are white people who
have done really bad things, of course.
Richard Speck was white, so was Charles
Manson, so was Hitler. Okay, got it.
But, like all whites, white kids, like
whites are bad?
Where did this idea come from? Like,
what is this?
And why are we putting up with it? If
they said that about Jews, I'd be like,
"No, that's You can't talk like that.
Not all Jews are bad. I have friends who
are Jewish. They're great."
But, you can talk that way about whites?
And I don't get it. And not just talk
that way, but act that way.
You're importing Africans just to make
the lives of whites miserable, just to
dilute the white population.
Huh?
Why are you doing that? Why don't you
tell me why you're doing that? Well, the
The answer is, "Well, we're not doing
that, and you're a racist for saying
we're doing that." Well, you actually
are doing that, and I can prove it. Look
at the numbers.
Um and so, we've sort of reached the end
of this happening in secrecy or through
intimidation. We We don't say anything
about it.
But, I personally, as a long-time
observer of this, you know, anti-white
impulse is the organizing principle in
white countries. It's It's the weirdest
thing I've ever seen.
I'm now interested in like, why?
Where does this come from?
I don't really get it.
And why less than 100 years after the
Second World War where we all pledged we
would never let this happen again, we
would never target a group because of
their blood and try to exterminate them.
Like right? I thought that was the
lesson of the Holocaust.
That's what I learned growing up and by
the way, I agreed with it.
We should not do that. It's bad. It was
bad to do it to Jews. It's just bad.
It's bad to do it to anybody.
Why are we doing that? Why are we
letting that happen again?
Where a whole group of people, they're
not getting rounded up and sent to
camps.
But they're getting systematically
destroyed on purpose.
And no one can say anything about it?
Well,
I'm out. I'm out.
I don't care what you call me. I'm not a
white supremacist at all. I'm a
Christian. I believe every person has a
spark of God inside him. We're all God's
children. I really believe that in the
bottom of you actually my soul, I
believe it.
But that doesn't mean I have to sit by
and let whites get genocided. No way.
And by the way, up yours for telling me
I have to accept that. Like what are you
even talking about?
>> [laughter]
>> Right?
So let's assume
hopefully many, many years from now, but
a few years from now there's
a young guy who lives in a world with
digital ID,
a social credit score,
programmable money, total surveillance.
What does his life look like?
His life looks like whatever his masters
want it to look like.
And that's the truth. At that point
you're relying purely on the goodwill of
your
slave master.
Cuz you [clears throat] have no rights
at all.
And you may have rights in some document
that guarantees you human rights the
same way that
you know, they had rights in Albania
1975. They didn't have rights. Can't You
do exactly what the leaders want you to
do or they kill you.
And that's the world they live in. So at
that point, you know, you have one of
two options. Pray for a benevolent
leader
who lets live with dignity
or overthrow the system if you can.
Probably not possible. So, so these are
real concerns. These are not paranoid
concerns. These are concerns that grow
out of a realistic understanding of
human nature and all its complexities,
good and bad.
But
power and leadership being what it is,
of course, unless you have strict
systems and protocols in place to
prevent sociopaths from taking power,
they will take power because that's what
they want. They're compensating for
hollowness inside for the self-hate.
And they will take control of your
civilization.
And everyone's always known that. And so
that's why we had pretty strict
protocols to keep sociopaths from
running our society.
And now we don't. And so they do.
And once they do
if you marry that to an awesome, really
unprecedented power over people through
technology, you have a nightmare
scenario.
Some people have talked about this idea
that
an Epstein-style blackmail operation
could exist today. There's a journalist
named Whitney Webb.
>> Mhm.
>> She argues that Palantir is the new
version of Epstein's blackmail network.
>> Mhm.
>> You've said Epstein ran a blackmail
operation. Seems like he did. Do you
think
Palantir is
the new Jeffrey Epstein?
>> I mean, I have no idea.
Um
I literally have no idea what
Palantir This is my primitive
understanding based on what I read has
the ability to locate people.
Um mostly based on your electronic
signature from your phone, but other
means also just because everything is
digital. And if you coordinate various
databases globally, CCTV CCTV cameras
cell phone pings and a lot of other
data, you can zero in on people wherever
they are. That's the That's the
capability that I have read Palantir
has.
So, that's useful in conflict cuz you
can target your opponents
individually.
Um
So, I'm not, you know, I'm concerned
about that. Why wouldn't I be? It's
misuse.
But, it's But, it might be a little bit
too easy just to say Palantir's the
problem. Like, the whole architecture of
digital life is the problem unless it's
constrained by real
privacy shields, and it's not. So, for
example, the porn sites.
Who owns the porn sites? Where are they
based?
>> [laughter]
>> Are there any foreign governments or
foreign intel services that have access
to the back-end databases of porn sites?
Yes.
So, that right there, if you can watch
people watch porn through the cameras on
their phones,
probably gives you a pretty deep archive
of material to use in case you want to
influence people's behavior. Like, Mike
Johnson's Speaker of the House. I'm not
saying that happened to him, but I'm
just saying let's say you wanted to
influence Mike Johnson from a sort of
reasonable person to a slave of Israel,
that might be one way you'd do it. I'm
not saying that happened, but that could
happen with him and a lot of other
people. Let's say you were on the House
or Senate Intel Committee, and all of a
sudden you just become an obedient
servant of the intel agencies, which is
the opposite of your job. How did that
happen?
And again, I I have no evidence that any
of this is happening,
but something's happening.
Why is it that the people who are
supposed to be restraining
various agencies are in fact abetting
overreach? Why is Tom Cotton, who runs
the Senate Intel Committee, supposed to
oversee CIA, et cetera,
now sponsoring a bill that would merge
the CIA with Mossad? Why would you ever
pass a law that requires the US
government to share sensitive
intelligence with a foreign country?
Like, that's That's the craziest thing
I've ever heard. That's the opposite of
working on behalf of your people. That's
selling them out to a foreign country,
in this case Israel. Why would Tom
Cotton do that? Hm. Is there something
about Tom Cotton
that he'd like to keep secret that's
being used against him? I mean, I
literally have no idea. I can only
guess, but and it's not just Tom Cotton.
Though he seems a very likely candidate
for that, but I don't know.
But it's it's a lot of these guys.
And I don't know all of them. I don't
know every member of the House and
Senate Intelligence Committees, but I
know some.
And I've always noticed, like my whole
life, and I got to DC in '85, so 41
years ago, I've always noticed that the
people who sit on the Intelligence
Committees
tend to be more screwed up than your
average member of Congress. Like I've
just noticed that.
You know, more likely to be alcoholics,
more likely to be secretly gay, more
likely to just be weird. Like there's
something weird about that dude.
Do you know what I'm talking about? You
just you can feel the weirdness on them.
And maybe that's just random,
but maybe it's not.
So, when I think about this, uh
Now, I don't know
a lot about guy Peter Thiel and Peter
Palantir, but
I suspect that what you're saying, the
ability to collect various types of data
that could be used as compromat or
blackmail,
would be possible, but
I don't know. Peter Thiel did move to
Argentina recently, and I saw an
article, maybe it was from April, maybe
it was last month, uh that Congress was
looking to get all the information that
uh
Palantir was collecting, but maybe
there's a case that
he's being made out to be the fall guy
for all this.
I really don't I really don't know. I
know that um he got citizenship in
New Zealand, probably 20 years This was
covered at the time.
I think
Thiel has been one of those people
focused on
the life cycle of empires and
civilizations for a long time, and
he's clearly concerned about the future
of ours. He said that. I don't know if
that's related to his investing in
Palantir or not, but um
I think in general a lot of the people
who've benefited most from our system
are the least vested in the system.
And that's a bad incentive structure.
Like
when, you know, ships
crossed the oceans without engines and
it was very dangerous
to cross the open sea in a wooden boat,
you know, caulked with pitch,
uh
the rule was, long-standing for
thousands of years, that the boat went
down, the captain went with it. He's the
last man off the boat. Now, why did Why
was that the rule?
That was the rule because it gave the
guy in charge incentive to do his best.
And so I do think it's a it's a I don't
know how you figure I mean, ending dual
citizenship is the first thing. You do
No, you you can't have dual citizenship.
You're either in or out. You're a
foreigner or you're a citizen. It's like
pick one.
And by the way, I'd be sort of happy to
have some kind of immigration if those
were our rules. I'm totally opposed to
all immigration now because it's out of
control and bad for Americans, but I can
imagine a system where we actually had
control over who lived here and you're
like, "Well, you're an amazing guy. Why
don't you move here? Become a citizen.
Like improve our country." Like I don't
That's not crazy. I'm for that.
We're so far from that. Now we're just
like, "Oh, you've got AIDS and won't
work. We want you."
Um I mean, it's designed to hurt our
country. But anyway,
I have always noticed that and I will
just be totally blunt with you as
someone who travels a lot. I've traveled
my whole life internationally and have
family outside the country.
Um and who's, you know, been the target
of
harassment from the government, spying
from our government.
There was a moment when I was saying to
my wife like, "I don't know. There are
lots of great countries,
including some that we go to a lot, and
maybe we move there." We talk we we
talked about it and uh uh
but we decided now. I mean we're from
here and like we're not leaving. And so
I will say just speaking from So I don't
want to sound too judgmental. Like I get
people like "Ooh, this isn't going
right. I I can get out. I am." I get it,
okay?
But I just know that in myself when I
made the decision
no.
You know, my family's been here in this
state where we live since 1725. So
um I thought to myself
I should I'm going to stay. Like what?
My parents are buried here. I'm not
leaving.
Uh
I changed like inside. It was funny. I
just felt more like
I'm going to do whatever I can.
Uh you feel that way when you're all in
on something. That's why polygamy is
it's really hard to have a happy
polygamous marriage cuz you don't have
to listen to your wife cuz you just go
to another wife.
Do you Do you know what I mean? But when
you're married to one woman it's like
I have no idea what you're saying. I
really can't deal with this.
But I love you and I want to make this
work. So I force myself to figure out
what's going on and to try to make it
better cuz you're all in on the
marriage.
I know you're newly married but like
give it 20 years and you'll be like I
don't even know what you're saying.
I'm going golfing. You know, it's like
every man feels that way.
But when you have only one wife you
you you're all in. And so you make it
better. There's something about the
persistence of trying to make it better
that's good for the marriage. It's good
for the system but it's also good for
you.
You're not just like "Oh, I can't deal
with this. I'm onto the next thing."
And citizenship is very much like that.
Dual citizenship is like polygamy.
It's I get it. It's fun in some ways but
it's unhealthy.
>> You have to go down with the ship.
>> Kind of. Yeah.
Go down with the wife. Yeah.
>> Do you think our world is
run by humans?
>> No.
I mean I've never thought that.
It's run by humans and that they occupy
the role Oh, if you're asking do I think
that there are hybrids, people who are
part human, I mean every society has
always thought that. Every religion is
the basis of every religion, the basis
of Christianity. Mary gets impregnated
by God, okay? So, like
people are like, "Oh, that's a crazy
concept." Really? The
Islam,
Judaism,
Christianity all believe that that is a
thing, okay? So, let's just say that is
a thing.
And I don't know to what extent that's
prevalent. There are people who I do
sort of who I know personally and I'm
like, "Oh, this guy has a weird vibe on
him." I'm like, "What is it?" But I
don't know. Of course I don't know.
Um and I try not to speculate about it,
though some of them are really weird.
But
>> [laughter]
>> uh I I don't think that the world is the
sum total of human decisions, if that's
what you're asking. I don't think that.
That's clearly not true. We are being
acted on
by supernatural forces at all times.
We have agency, we have free will, we
can go along with it, we can resist it.
Those are our decisions to make.
But they're often made under pressure,
sometimes duress.
And it's not as simple as It's not as
simple as we just decided to do it.
There's a lot going on. There's a lot
going on and I
I one time had, you know, I don't get
much insight, flashes of insight, but I
did once have this flash of insight
that's never left me that when we die,
we'll sort of see everything in its
entirety and like realize there's like
all this stuff going on around us that
we didn't even know.
We could sometimes feel it, you know,
you get moments where you feel it. But
most of you don't feel it. You just sort
of you're like, "Where What What shall I
do today? What shall I make of my life
today?" Like you're at
living in a vacuum or something. That's
absurd. Of course you're not living in a
vacuum, dude.
And in all human history, you're one of
you're like less than 1% of people who
ever thought you were living in a
vacuum.
There's so much going on. Yes, there is
a God. This is not the result of a
spontaneous bang. That was it's just so
dumb.
It's so dumb and no one has ever thought
that because it's demonstrably false.
And I do I do think attitudes on this
are changing really really quickly.
I mean, I grew up I can't overstate how
secular the world I grew up in was or
how secular my family was or like I am a
product of post-war America for sure.
Not a boomer, but
I have a lot of the same bad assumptions
that boomers have and the main bad
assumption is that like we're the
product of our choices.
And all of this is just like ours to
decide. Like we can just, you know,
we're all blank slates and it's it's so
stupid.
But the older I get, the more and I talk
to people, I realize that
peop- it's not just me, like other
people's views on this are changing. Of
course there's a spiritual realm. Who
told us there wasn't? Like what are you
even talking about, you idiot? You know?
>> Right.
>> Young people get it. It's crazy.
Young people, I'm not saying they're all
Christians, a lot of them are, actually,
but they're way more spiritually aware
and spiritually open than I was at say
25. When I was 25,
and I was married, I had like a job and
like I was a responsible citizen, like
relatively speaking, though I was drunk
a lot,
but I just I I spent like zero time
thinking about anything like that. And
your average The 25-year-olds I know,
including the ones who work for us,
they think about it all the time. Like
it is a totally different generation
in a much better way
than ours was.
>> I'd say I largely agree with that. Uh
You're close with Trump.
On Easter you said Trump didn't put his
hand on the Bible when he was sworn in
for inauguration because, quote, maybe
he affirmatively rejects what's inside
that book.
Do you think Trump believes in God?
Well, Trump definitely believes in the
supernatural. There's no question about
that. I know that.
Um does he believe in the Christian God?
No. No.
But he he certainly is not a secular
person at all. And he definitely
believes.
He believes. Everyone believes, by the
way. Everybody, whether they know it or
not. But I Trump consciously believes.
Um and as to the Bible question, I never
you know, I spent over a year not saying
anything about that.
But I was sitting right there. I mean, I
was right in front of him and at the
inauguration, which was very small. It
was indoors.
Sitting next to um
some relatives of his. Anyway,
and I saw it. And Melania was there with
the Bible. And no one said anything
about it. Just But I just noticed it. I
was like and it's you're saying right
there and he didn't he intentionally
didn't. And by the way, it's
an inaugural swearing in. Like everyone
knows the rules. Like the protocol is,
you know, put your hand on the Put your
hand on the Bible. He did it the first
time.
And I was really bothered by it. And he
just he didn't put his hand on the
Bible. So, the only point I made was
if you didn't care, if you didn't think
it was real, like
why would you not put your hand on the
Bible? It's just a It's just a book. It
doesn't have any power. It doesn't mean
anything. It's like some superstition
that desert people believed in 2,000
years ago. It's like it's immaterial.
Just put your hand on the Bible. Who
cares?
But he didn't.
And I was, you know, I saw him that
night. I've saw him I've seen him
countless times since then. I've never
said anything about it to him and I
didn't I tried not to think about it
again. Like there is a process by which
you like ignore things that you don't
like or that don't make sense or you
don't want to think them.
We all do this, right? I certainly do
it. And
but then it came back to me on Easter
morning.
I was at my cousin's house in Texas.
Hunting hogs
and having a great time and I woke up
really early cuz it was Easter morning.
We're going to go to services and I just
checked my phone and I saw that I I
couldn't I was
Have I ever been that offended?
Not cuz I'm a particularly pious man.
I'm certainly not a pious man. However,
it is Easter.
It's like our main main holiday of the
world's biggest religion.
And you're comparing yourself
to Jesus or
swearing or what what? Calling for the
murder of innocents on Easter morning.
Take a break, dude.
Out of respect
for the world's biggest religion, right?
And the majority religion in your own
country.
I It was an intentional provoc-
provocation and
um and so it just evoked that memory
of him not putting his hand on the Bible
and No, but he's very superstitious.
Superstitious, I don't know if that's
even the right word. He's a believer in
supernatural power, strongly.
That they all are. They all are. Every
The most religious people in the world
are the people who lead countries.
They're under the most pressure, the
most is at stake. Like they thought this
through.
I'm not saying they're all bail
worshipers or Satanists. I'm not saying
that, but they believe that
they're living out a destiny, that
there's a plan, that there's a power
they can draw from. They experience
that. I've seen it.
And in some cases they are like involved
in rituals. I've never seen that, but I
think that's true. But in most cases I
don't think they're like going
downstairs to sacrifice a goat at the
pentagram. I don't think that, but I
think they
they think they can speak reality into
existence. I've definitely seen that
with Trump as well.
Where you know, your words have magic
power. They're incantations. If you say
it enough, it becomes true. Like they
definitely believe stuff like that cuz
it's true, by the way. And they're
right. They're absolutely right. Those
powers are real.
Anyone who's lived long enough has
experienced that power, that
supernatural power that enters the human
body and heart and changes us. Has
anyone who's lived long enough has
spoken words that seem to come from
nowhere?
Who hasn't had that experience? If you
when you live long enough, and if you
speak enough, you will have that
experience where all of a sudden you say
something you've never thought of
before.
You have an insight that didn't come to
you, that came through you. It's
happened to me many times. And I think
it's happened to most people who are
honest and think about it a little bit.
And certainly our leaders, because they
are under enormous pressure, enormous
pressure.
And when you're under that much
pressure, things come into stark relief.
You don't float through life when you're
running a country. Like you're it's one
hyper-intense moment to the next.
And so like the most intense moment
you've ever had in your life or ever had
in my life, that's like a Wednesday
morning for them.
Um and so they're hyper-aware of the
stuff.
>> Has Trump asked you to pray before?
>> Absolutely not.
Trump is hostile to traditional
Christianity.
And uh
very
um
so yeah.
And I am sad about
Trump is mad at Christians for opposing
abortion and mentions it a lot.
A lot in private, a lot. And uh he's in
very annoyed by it. And opposition to
abortion annoys him a lot.
He's mentioned it to me like 30 times. I
vehemently oppose abortion, just to be
clear. Um cuz I think it's killing a
child. Like what are we doing?
But I haven't argued with him about it.
I've just listened. Um maybe I should
have, but I didn't. But he's got a
really strong view on that. And
I don't understand
these Christian leaders, self-described
Christian leaders going in and
endorsing violence.
I just I don't see any
any part of the New Testament that would
justify that or inspire that. And it
seems
clearly evil to me.
I I could be wrong. I'm I'm hardly a
theologian. Don't come to me for
theology, but I don't see that at all.
I see the opposite actually. So, I think
in general Christian leaders should be
very careful about lending their moral
authority to political figures.
Like their job is to change the
political figure and make him more
Christ-like. It's not to become
themselves more of a politician.
And unfortunately, when
religious leaders and
powerful temporal leaders mix, it tends
to corrupt the religious leader. It
doesn't have to be that way. I mean, you
can imagine a world in which a spiritual
advisor elevates a leader and gets him
thinking about things that are really
important. Like God and like the the
humanity of people and stuff like that,
but
but mostly it doesn't work that way at
all. Like
Franklin Graham goes into the White
House and it just degrades Franklin
Graham, you know.
Sad.
>> You told the New York Times being around
Trump is like smoking hash.
>> Yeah, it is. I haven't smoked hash in a
long time, but I remember
as a child smoking hash
fairly regularly.
>> Do you think Donald Trump has
supernatural powers?
>> I'm glad I don't smoke hash anymore cuz
it makes you out of it. I remember that.
Um
Well, I think supernatural power flows
through all of us. I mean, it does.
That's a statement of fact. It does. Hm.
We are at times in our lives
possessed by something that's not from
us and it makes us better or worse. I've
already explained my the window that
into that that I had in one day, but
it's part of the human experience and
it's a lot less
unusual, it's a lot more familiar than
we admit. And we're all like either
sucked in by or intentionally playing
along with this absurd lie that like
there's a supernatural realm out there
somewhere maybe probably not and then
there's our life here. It's like no no
no no no.
It's all
We're coming into contact with the
supernatural with the transcendent with
the above nature the impossible to
measure by science world constantly.
And it happens
you know, a lot and
partly because I have experience with
alcohol and drugs as a younger man which
thankfully I've been liberated from but
20 5 years ago but
you know, anyone who drinks a lot or
does a lot of drugs can if they're
honest can recall moments where you're
just like seized by evil. Just being
honest. They are they're seized by evil.
When I read parts of the Hunter Biden
laptop I knew Hunter Biden
well and
I always thought that. I was like this
is what happens when you do a lot of
drugs like you're you're you are moved
by
evil spirits. Like sorry. Sorry.
People who don't believe that have never
experienced I have experienced it so I
know.
I've never done you know, never hold up
at La Quinta Inn for a week with hookers
or anything but like you
Anyone who's partied too much can
honestly say
I know what that is.
And why is that? Is there something
inherently demonic about alcohol and
drugs? I don't know. Maybe maybe not
probably not. I mean I don't think
alcohol is inherently demonic.
But it lowers your resistance to being
influenced for sure. So I've so long
answer to a short question is Trump
Yeah, I mean of course. I do think that
Trump
he would not describe it as a spell but
it's obvious to me and I've experienced
it a lot that Trump uses a kind of
communication in order to lull his
audience into a defenseless stupor.
He does a thing that he describes as the
weave where he doesn't answer a question
and then he moves into a kind of
labyrinth of other
seemingly disconnected
observations and
the [clears throat] reason that you know
it's not merely the rambling of an old
man and he is an old man he's 80
but it's more than that because he
brings you back as in a labyrinth to the
beginning.
And
the point of that and I've experienced
it so much in so many different
You want the answer actually? Trump does
that when he's trying
Trump hates confrontation hates
confrontation which is interesting.
And he does that when he's trying to
disarm you or tell you something you
don't want to hear or
when he's dodging a question he lulls
you
into this kind of
torpor where you're not aware that he's
not answering the question because
you're mesmerized by this
word picture he's painting or the
absurdity of what he's saying and he
knows it's absurd cuz he's not stupid.
And it's happened to me I mean literally
dozens and dozens of times with Trump
and every single time I thought to
myself this is the funniest most
hilarious thing ever
in the kind of way when you're a child
and I grew up in a world where kids
smoked weed young
and you first smoke weed and you're like
you can't stop laughing
at I don't know if you smoke marijuana
as a child but I did and you know like
sixth grade you know you do a bong hit
and you're just like you're laughing I
remember looking at a eucalyptus tree
and just thinking that's the most absurd
thing I've ever seen and it was my
brother and I was like howling with
laughter at the eucalyptus tree.
And then it wears off and like if you
smoke enough pot you don't feel that way
anymore but the point is
it was kind of that feeling like this is
so FREAKING CRAZY I LOVE IT.
That's the feeling you get when you
listen to Trump in a personal setting
about
talk like that.
And so then the question becomes like
does he know he's doing this? And the
answer is oh yeah.
Because there's a way in which it's a
spell.
It's a spell it's designed to disarm you
to make you less powerful and less able
to resist.
Is that the same as a witch's spell over
a smoking cauldron? No, but
it's a first cousin of that. Yeah, it's
using words to change reality. It's an
incantation.
>> Do you
Do you believe in literal spells?
>> Um
Do I believe that words change reality?
Yes.
Yes, [laughter] of course I do.
>> Fair.
>> I mean, it depends.
I mean, the word spell is so Hollywood
infused
that in some way it's lost its power
because it it has a kind of absurd ring
to it. A spell.
And you picture, you know, like a witch
with a mole and a
sharp black hat and stuff like that. But
if Do you believe
that words change reality? Do you
believe there is something
inherently powerful about words?
Of course there is.
In the beginning was the word, and the
word was with God, and the word was God.
Those are opening lines of John, the
Gospel of John.
And they point to something that
everyone knows to be true, whether you
think the word was God, but I mean, like
there's a reason that a protection of
words is our first amendment. There's a
reason that the first act of every
tyranny is to limit words.
Why words?
Wouldn't you be
more worried about guns? No, they're
much more worried about words.
Not just thoughts, words.
Taking a thought and articulating it
changes its nature.
And I can think all kinds of So, people
talk during sex.
Obviously, because it intensifies It
intensifies it. Like, you could have a
thought, but you say it out loud to the
person you're with, and it's just like
makes the moment totally different,
right? Am I Oh, I shouldn't have said
that. I'm supposed to say that, but it's
true.
Articulating a thought changes its
nature
from abstract to real because words are
real.
And so, do I think that uttering certain
words
changes everything forever? Of course.
Is that a spell?
I don't know. You can call it whatever
you want, but it's true.
And uh
So, right. So, anyway, yes, of course I
believe that. I believe that because
it's obvious. And but the real question
is like
why I've always known that, but why
don't we talk about any of this stuff?
Like there's almost you almost never
hear a public conversation about
anything that matters. It's all the Iran
nuclear program. Oh, the Iran nuclear
program. Oh, okay. Talk about something
that doesn't matter. Don't care. Don't
care.
I mean, I guess I care. I guess it's
like
number 137 on my things to worry about
list.
But the fact that speaking
changes reality forever, it might be
nice to know that. Supernatural is 100%
real.
That there is ultimately justice, that
none of us gets away with anything, that
everything we do is known.
I wish someone had told me that, you
know, a lot earlier.
I've learned all that.
Um
But so, I I feel like my job in whatever
period I have left to speak is to say
that out loud.
And to not fall for the The first line
of defense of liars is to mock.
That's crazy.
Is it?
It's not crazy. It's the truest thing.
It's truer than safe and effective. It's
truer than anything the liars say. Are
there demons Of course there are demons.
What?
Who doubts that? Who's ever doubted
that? Nobody.
Tucker
You've been fired from everything. CNN,
MSNBC, and Fox for
speaking the truth.
Or for some reason. Not for sexual
harassment. Tell you
>> [laughter]
>> I think I'm the only person who ever got
fired for TV other than for sexual
harassment.
>> [laughter]
>> I guess I don't have much game.
>> [gasps]
>> What's
the one thing
you're not allowed to say at this point
in time? Like
what's the one thing that you, Tucker
Carlson, could say that would get this
entire podcast deleted?
>> I don't know. It's a good question. I
mean, I do feel like the barriers have
dropped.
I mean, there
you know, I I I mean, because I've been
in talking business for 30 years, I've
thought a lot about this and like
there are all kinds of things that I
don't I don't care to say, actually,
that I think that I'm not sure are true.
I have all kinds of weird attitudes and
biases that I either inherited or picked
up along the way that are like ugly and
I don't want to give voice to those.
I mean, there In In other words, just
because you think something is true,
doesn't mean you have to say it. You're
under no obligation to say everything is
true. I don't know who came up with that
rule. It's not a rule. Some things I'm
totally happy to keep to myself.
So,
with that said, what do I think is
important to say that I'm positive is
true,
that is deeply unpopular? Well, I've
said an awful lot of those things.
But the one area that I really notice
that
it's so verboten that it's like it's not
even discussed. Like the ultimate The
way to censor something
effectively is not to react to it with
like, "How dare you, racist?" or
whatever the name they call you.
It's just to totally ignore it. Is not
allow it to rise to the level of like
public awareness or consciousness. It's
just like, "Yeah, that's crazy. Never
mind. I can't even Whatever. Just shh."
And anything having to do with the
spiritual realm usually falls into that
category.
And I came I I don't ever talk about
UFOs because I don't know the answer and
because there's so much lying about
them. But the one but I did spend
you know, over a year really looking at
it carefully and the one benefit of my
job one of the many benefits of my job
but for me the most satisfying benefit
of my job is that I am literally paid to
go satisfy my curiosity. If I'm really
interested in something I can call
anybody I want and some of them will
return my call.
And so I did. I called everybody from
President Trump to I was just really
interested like what is this? It was
clear in 2017 when the David Graber
stuff came out there was like wow, this
is actually real.
But what is it?
So I embarked on this whole personal
thing. I never talked about it in public
like just trying to figure out what what
what is this? And I never really got to
the answer but one
I have my own views on it but I I think
they're spiritual entities. I've said
that but I don't you know, I don't have
proof.
The one thing I know for sure
is that the US government has lied of
course we all know that but what have
they lied about?
The
thread that connects all of their lies
is these are not supernatural.
These are beings from another planet.
This is it's a parallel it's a parallel
civilization in space somewhere.
They're little green men.
So I have learned from vast experience
that if you want to understand the truth
about something understand the nature of
the lie first.
Like there'll be a topic and everyone's
lying about it and I want to know what's
true.
It's hard to find out what's true
because it's all classified or whatever.
You can't actually get to the truth but
you can assess the lies they're telling
you.
And if all the lies
have one goal to obscure one thing you
can be pretty certain that's the truth.
>> Right. Does that make sense?
>> The law of convergence.
>> The law of convergence yeah. The x-ray
theory like look at it in in its
you know, in its reverse contrast.
And so yeah, that has been the
consistent theme in the disinformation
campaigns ongoing since the Second World
War about UAPs. These are not
supernatural.
So, you know, and then you ask, well,
why would they care? Why would the
Pentagon, which has led this,
why would they care whether people
thought they were supernatural or not?
Why would that be important enough to
spend some untold number of millions and
you know, 80 years hiding?
And I don't know the answer, but I think
it's very evocative. It really tells you
a lot about the nature of this. It's
It's evil.
Um and of course, the connection to
nuclear technology, which is clearly
there.
Um I don't fully understand it, but
there clearly is a connection between
nuclear technology and these sightings.
Obviously, noted for many years. So, um
I think that there is a determined
effort to deny
a reality beyond the material reality.
And so, my suspicion is that's the real
red line. I'll tell you what's not the
red line is racism or sexism or
anti-Semitism. I mean, they they try to
inspire those things.
Our leaders want more of that. They want
I'm clearly want this. I think that they
want it.
Why would you have Why would you have
Black Lives Matter protest exempted from
COVID laws
unless you wanted to make people racist?
Uh of course. Why would you have Mark
Levin on TV unless you wanted to create
anti-Semitism? Obviously.
I'm not falling for it. I'm not going to
be an anti-Semite. I'm not going to be a
racist. It's against my religion. I'm
not falling for it. But they clearly
want it. Clearly, they want it to divide
our society, obviously,
so they can rule it more efficiently. I
mean, that's just elementary and very
clear to me. But what do they really not
want? It's not what they say they don't
want. I don't want you to be
transphobic.
Okay. Like you care.
You don't want me to acknowledge a power
higher than yours. That's what you
really don't want. Hm.
And uh
and so I suspect that is the actual red
line.
>> Do you think the lie is different at
every level?
>> The lie is different at every level.
>> Every level of government?
I guess if there's levels to truth,
levels of things being classified. Like
do you think the people at the top are
being told lies about things or do you
think there's
>> a great question. Um
that's like a late night dinner table
conversation I have with a lot of
government officials.
Uh and it's you know, it's it's hard to
know.
Um it's hard to know. I
I don't know the answer. I I've had some
pretty wild late night conversations
with people. Um I don't go to
restaurants much anymore. I like to eat
at my house.
But I love dinner table conversations. I
grew up doing that. You know, we didn't
watch TV so we always had these like
6-hour dinners at my house and I still
do that a lot, you know, every week and
uh
and I've heard some wild stuff but the
wildest thing I ever heard there were no
specifics at all but I was speaking to
someone
actually a
Democrat but he was a former a good guy,
very smart guy who had a very
high-ranking job
in the US government, like access to
everything kind of job.
And I was at you know, pushing him like
what do you know?
And he said
"You know,
I know a lot. I've seen a lot." And he
would have seen a lot and he goes
"But there's really only one thing I
know that I would never tell anybody."
And I was like, "Really?" He goes, "I
would never tell anybody. I'd be killed
before I told anybody."
I said, "Well, why?" And he goes,
"Because you could end humanity with
it."
>> [laughter]
>> That's all I know. That's all he said.
But I'll never forget that moment.
We're sitting by the fire in my house he
said that. Um so I have no idea what
that means. Maybe he's making it up. I
don't think so though.
But
>> [laughter]
>> I don't think so. I mean, I do think
like
the secrets that
you know, are there, like we already
know kind of you know, the outlines of
it.
You know, a lot of the big
history-changing events are not
the version that we're told is not
strictly speaking true. It's partly
true.
Um but it's not the whole story at all.
And some of it's like very, very
obvious.
And
you know, the Kennedy assassination was
like so clearly
at the time in November of 1963, people
like, "Oh, that
What? The lone gunman was just killed by
a lone gunman?"
>> [laughter]
>> WHAT ARE THE ODDS?
OKAY. SO, LIKE EVEN THEN, PEOPLE didn't
buy it. And
so, I don't know that if we find out I
mean, I think really there's a banality
at the bottom of a lot of this.
Once you are honest about how the world
works, and the world is
you know, it's a struggle between light
and darkness, and we're heavily
influenced by supernatural forces,
light and dark, but in this world,
mostly dark. And um
the things that people want are, you
know, power and wealth and acclaim and
you know, I don't I don't think there's
anything like super crazy about it. And
that's the basis of all religions, this
acknowledgement.
And I think it's only because we're
without religion, meaning we're without
a vocabulary to describe what we're
seeing, that it's so shocking to us. But
I think the medieval mind or the African
mind or the almost any mind but ours
would be like, "Well, yeah, of course.
What do you think?"
>> Right.
>> You know?
>> Candace uh
made a
video about you yesterday.
>> Made a video about me?
>> It was about a dinner that you'd had
with
Charlie and Erica Kirk, but
on that topic, I wanted to ask
what
was your last conversation with Charlie
Kirk?
>> You know, I don't remember and I've
never gone back.
I get sucked into some lawsuits and so I
put my text on auto delete which I never
should have done.
Fox entrapped me in a lawsuit that I
wasn't even in. Whatever, it's such a
boring story but the result of it was I
always saved everything because
I've been a journalist my whole life so
I like save things.
But I put my text on auto delete. I've
since
you know, whatever changed that but I
don't have
By the time I checked they were all
gone. So I don't know when I last I
texted him a lot.
And I so I don't I don't remember but
um
You know, he's here
uh in this room the summer before the
summer he was killed on September 10th.
And he was here not that long before.
I mean, there was a lot of drama about
me speaking at the Turning Point event
in December.
I'm not for me. I was happy to but there
was so much pushback against that that
um
I had many conversations with him about
it and they were all basically along the
lines
uh
of this. I said
you know, oh man, this is awful for you.
I don't care by the way. I talk enough.
No, no, no, I insist. I'm not giving in
to this. You know, all the neocons, all
the Israel
agents of Israel were pushing him really
hard
to cancel me.
Trump just getting elected against
cancel culture and all of a sudden like
Josh Hammer and like that weird weekend
host on Fox are like determining who's
allowed to speak in public. The whole
thing is so crazy. I couldn't hardly
believe it was happening.
It was just a foretaste of how of what
we're going through now. But anyway,
whatever. The point is I talked to him a
lot about it, and I was always like,
"Dude, I do not need to do this."
And he was absolutely insistent That's
true. He was absolutely insistent on it.
And his views on Israel were
not very different from mine at all.
So, there's a course a big effort to lie
about that.
But, it is a lie.
Um cuz I talked to him a lot a lot. And
so, anyone who's telling you that he was
a you know, a blind supporter of Israel
is lying.
Or doesn't never didn't talk to him.
But, I did. I talked to him a lot about
this topic.
So, um
>> Why would someone say that?
>> You know, I I don't know. I haven't
really weighed in on the
on the Turning Point thing. You know,
I've always um
I've known Erica
for a long time, and I
I mean, since she was dating Charlie. He
introduced me to her. I had lunch with
them. And um I've always really liked
her, and I felt so sad so sad for her
when
he was murdered. And I still feel that
way. And I know that she's taken a lot
of grief. I haven't participated in any
of it. I don't read it. I truly try to
stay away from it.
But, I feel sorry for her. Um but, you
know, there were people there who I know
well at Turning Point who all of a
sudden found themselves in positions
that they didn't sign up for, they
weren't hired for, and they weren't
suited for.
And
they've been under enormous pressure,
and they've done a really bad job. I
don't know what to say. I I feel sorry
for them.
Um because they didn't sign up for it.
Actually, Charlie got murdered. So, they
they're doing their best, and they're
not suited for it at all. And
and they're under all this pressure, and
I think they've made some bad decisions,
and
you know, not supporting Massie,
not demanding that Trump end this war.
Those are those are major failures.
Like, Charlie was aggressively
anti-neocon. He said it a lot.
He couldn't have been clearer about
that. And so, um
you know, I think
for the sake of his memory and
consistency and also just decency and
the country,
they should have continued with that
posture, but they didn't. And I know
they're under tons of pressure and all
these creepy donors, you know, who are
like care about Israel more than the
United States.
Okay, well, you know, life is hard and
you want the job, you want the salary,
get in there and do what's right. I
don't have as much sympathy.
Even though I have sympathy for them
personally, like these are people I like
a lot and have not not criticism no plan
to criticize, but I it makes me sad.
So, that's how I feel.
I don't want to
ask about Candace's video. I think
you've implied it from what you've said,
but
Charlie was very anti-neocon. I just
want to be clear, very. And anyone who
says anyone who says he wasn't
either didn't know him or talked to him
or is lying. It's like literally that
simple.
And would you suspect that his wife had
very differing viewpoints?
Uh
you know, she's taken so much heat and I
I
have said I'm sure I'll be attacked for
saying it cuz she's like taking so much
heat, but I've always liked her
and I feel so sorry for her and no, she
did not have so far as I could tell, who
knows what people really think.
>> Right.
>> But I can just tell you that it was
definitely, I want to underscore
definitely not my impression
that Charlie was like anti-neocon and
she was like some secret neocon. Like
that was
definitely not my impression. Now, who
knows what, you know, that guy
>> [sighs]
>> um I actually texted with her 2 days
ago. I um
haven't uh talked to her, but I'm going
to and um
and I like her and I've just tried to
stay out of it.
And I I I think in order of what I
think, I'll just tell you what I think.
I think it's
it's hard for me to believe that Charlie
was murdered
because of his views on trans rights.
Maybe he was, but anyone
demanding that I believe that without
evidence
is an enemy of the truth. That's what I
think. Okay, so if you think that, prove
it to me.
But don't scold me or tell me you know
Candace Owens anti-semitic Oh, be quiet.
You know, he was my friend, so I'm not
why would I stand for that? I'm not
standing for that. Um I I think it's
unlikely. That's my personal view. Maybe
I'm wrong. I'm waiting for the trial,
but I don't like at all the way they've
handled this at all.
And Joe Kent, who I know very well, very
well, and is an honest and reasonable
person, not a hater at all, not a hater
of Israel or any of this nonsense. He's
an honest man with the highest level
security clearance, said in public to me
and others
there was evidence, not proof, evidence
to suggest foreign involvement in this.
Doesn't mean there was foreign
involvement, it means that there are
threads we need to follow.
Leads we need to track down, and the FBI
refused.
And the FBI has not responded to that.
So, as a friend of Charlie's, an actual
friend of Charlie's, I think it's fair
for me to say, "What is that?"
It's not an attack on Turning Point or
anything.
It's just like, "What is that?"
And no one will answer the question.
Shut up, anti-semite. How's that It's
nothing to do with that. This is my
friend gets murdered, and here's a US
official saying that our main domestic
law enforcement agency didn't follow up
on all leads.
So, is that part of a conspiracy? I have
no idea. But it's negligent at best.
And I'm just amazed by Maybe I shouldn't
be amazed, but it's like people just
square off into their camps. You see
this in our politics, too.
So-and-so's a He's a liberal. He's a
Democrat. We got to hate him. Well, I
don't Okay. I'm against liberals. I've
never voted Democrat, never will.
I don't think, but
maybe he's saying something true.
Maybe we should just assess what people
say on on the basis of whether it seems
right or not. And if they raise a valid
question, let's get an answer to it.
And this is immediately devolved into
this like
you know, fight between two people.
Well, okay, it's bigger than that.
I mean, I literally had someone text me
who I know very well
scolding me, like yelling at me in a
text, like, "You said something nice
about Candace Owens." Well, I love
Candace Owens. She's like a friend of
mine.
I I haven't followed
all of this. Like, I have no idea,
right? I don't know the details. And I
And I'm not going to be scolded into
following it. I don't want to. It's
upsetting to me. I don't want to I don't
want to. I just want someone But anyway,
the point is like
I'm not allowed to be friends with
Candace Owens because you dis like what
is this?
It's like cultural revolution stuff. I'm
not playing along with it at all.
I like Candace Owens a lot.
And I've always liked Erica Kirk. Sorry.
And I feel sorry for Erica Kirk.
I don't like the fact that
TPUSA didn't do more to resist the Iran
war, which is insane and terrible for
this country.
I don't like the fact that they didn't
defend Massie.
And I don't think the FBI is doing
an adequate job investigating this
murder. Those are the things that I
believe. And maybe maybe they contradict
each other. I don't know, but that's
what I think.
>> You'd also said they didn't investigate
Trump's last assassination attempt.
>> shut it down. He shut down the
investigation of his assassination
attempt and murder. That's a fact.
That's not something I made up. That's
something Dan Bongino told me.
So, and it's also obvious. It's
obviously true.
And I found out that by accident.
And I had no interest in like looking
into Butler, but somebody sent me
at randomly, someone I never met, sent
me the real social media posts of Thomas
Crooks, which the FBI had hidden.
And I confirmed that they're real, and
they are real. And the FBI has now
confirmed they're real.
So, that was just random. That just
happened to me one day, okay? Didn't
expect that.
>> Mhm.
And that that fact that unexpected fact
put me into contact with the leadership
of the FBI including Dan Bongino.
And they attacked me
for bringing this information to them
before I even put it in public. I was
like, "Hey, I got this. You should know
this."
And they went crazy on me.
And I don't respond well to that. Why
would I?
So, in the course of those very unhappy
conversations, Dan Bongino was
hysterical.
Like actually hysterical. Hysterical.
And terrified. I've no idea about what,
but he was.
Said that Trump shut it down.
I never said that in public cuz it was a
private conversation.
Next thing I know, Dan Bongino just
Bongino's attacking me. Okay.
So, I say this and he releases like four
out of
I don't know.
Three dozen text messages from me to
prove that's not true. Well, it is true.
And I'm not going to respond by
releasing all the text messages cuz I
don't want to release private text
messages. I could.
But I don't want to go there. I don't
like this whole world where like we text
each other and then we post screenshots.
Like I don't want to participate in
that.
>> Right.
>> But it's not even about poor Dan Bongino
who's been totally destroyed by this as
a man.
I feel sorry for him.
It's about the question of like what
happened. And okay, you Trump didn't
shut down the investigation. Well,
where's the investigation and why can't
we see the evidence that the US
government has gathered in this which
belongs to us?
Why can't I see that?
Shut up. No.
How's that?
Like what's the answer then?
It's just crazy to me. And anyway, I'm
not playing along. Not because I hate
Dan Bongino. I feel sorry for Dan
Bongino.
Not because I hate Trump. I feel sorry
for Trump.
But because why would I play along?
Like why would I do that?
>> Tucker, you've been with your wife Susie
since you were 15.
Is that right?
>> 42 years.
>> What does she understand about you
that would surprise people listening to
you?
>> Oh, I have no idea. I mean, we're WASPs,
you know, the self-awareness level is
very low.
>> [laughter]
>> I think she likes me. She was nice to me
this morning. Um she's a great
person. The best person I've ever met,
by far.
Um no, my my wife is a great person in
my view.
And we have I think, I'm not I hate even
to say it cuz it sounds so braggy, but
like a very unusually happy marriage
because she
has her prior I mean, I've never met
anybody who's more
totally focused on her priorities. Like
she
believes certain things are important
and other things are not important, and
she spends 100% of her day on the
important things.
Period.
I've never seen anyone I've never met
anyone who's less distracted by the
noise than my wife. She does not even
hear it. She tunes it right out if it
doesn't have to do with Jesus, her
family, her dogs, her friends, it,
nature.
It is just not of interest at all. And
she's not embarrassed of that. She
doesn't feel the need to like play along
and be like, "Well, actually, I think
that you know, she's like
It's It's not even a thing. It doesn't
enter into her life. We don't talk about
it.
Um
and so to you know, to live with someone
like that, she's also relentlessly nice.
She's just a nice and any you know,
she's in our world, our little world
that we live in,
which is not that little really, but you
know, we have a big family and
a lot of long-time friends. My business
partner is my college roommate, so it's
like I live in a world that's
been in place for many decades. And in
that world,
you know, she's the more famous one.
Like she is
We just had a big family event, a
wedding, and
you know, she she's really the the star
of our world cuz people just see her as
a really unusual person. She's really an
unusual person. I'll say that, not like
anybody else I've ever met.
So, yeah, no, so that's been Yeah,
that's been the really the basis of my
happiness and
I have no complaints and I think I think
she understands me
perfectly well. I mean, really well, but
more than anything, she's
the times in my life when I've, you
know, kind of blown it up in some cases,
it's be- as you said, because I'm such a
principled man and I tell the truth, but
other times I've been fired or screwed
it up because I'm like lazy
or distracted or drunk or whatever. I
mean, like a lot of my failures have
been my fault. Most of them have been my
fault.
She has been
I mean, that's really when you find out
who your wife is
when things don't go according to plan.
You know, it's kind of like the
the famous Mike Tyson quote about, you
know, everyone got a plan till they get
hit in the face. You're going to get hit
in the face. You're going to get cancer
or fired or, you know, whatever.
Your dog gets hit by a car. Like,
horrible things happen.
And she I mean, that's when you find
out. And like, the number of women who
are like, what?
We have to resign from the club? Like, I
did not sign up for this.
Like, you know, I've seen people there
they get the wife gets squirrely, you
know, for real.
My wife is just like,
it's who cares? She literally said to
me, in my favorite moment ever,
when I got fired in 2009, at the height
of the financial crisis, we had to move
cuz I couldn't afford a house.
And and I got fired because my ratings
were bad, because I was lazy and
disengaged and entitled, cuz I'd been
famous since I was in my 20s, and so I
was like,
>> [laughter]
>> pretty amazing guy.
But I wasn't an amazing guy. I was just
like a lucky guy, but I didn't know the
difference then. But anyway, I get
fired,
totally blow up our life, and I have to
go home and tell her this. I was in New
York. I took the train home
as a fired guy.
Meanwhile, my wife doesn't We don't have
a TV, so she doesn't watch my show. She
has really only a vague idea what I do
for a living, but she thinks that I'm
like
going to be king of the world. Like,
she's she's really all in, you know,
she's always been a big booster. So,
she has no idea that I've screwed it up.
Like, she's no idea.
>> [laughter]
>> She has no idea that I'm like failing at
work and get fired. So, I go home, and
I'm like
I'll never forget We're lying in bed and
with the dogs, and I said, "Yeah, I just
got fired,
and I don't know what we're going to
do." And she goes, "Oh,
just move to Vermont.
And we'll just live in Vermont. You
know, it's like way cheap in Vermont."
This is back when it was cheap in
Vermont, and we'll just like get a farm.
We can afford that. You know, we had
like a little bit of equity in our
house. We'll just And you can just write
books for a living. That'll be so fun.
Send our kids to public school. Like,
it'll be awesome.
You know, cuz we both obviously love New
England and
grew up coming here. So, I was like, as
soon as she said that,
I was like, "Okay, first, I married the
right girl. Second, I was like, ah,
I'll recover as long as I have her on
board." Mhm. You know, cuz you can
easily destroy a man. Easily. They're
fragile like glass. Like, push them in
some direction, and they're just like
hard as diamonds. You hit them sideways,
and they just shatter.
And the fastest way to shatter a man is
to
shake his woman's confidence in him.
Like, they can take on a full army.
They'll go over the top of the trench
and, you know, run into machine gun
fire. But, like, if the girl's like, "I
don't think you know what you're doing,"
they just fall apart.
>> Right.
>> And so, at that moment, that just gave
me the strength, and I was fine. I mean,
I had to
It took me many years to rebuild my
life, but
I never doubted it would be fine after
that. So, that is right there.
That's been the basis of my strength.
>> Your mom
she uh
left when you and your brother when you
were six.
>> Mhm.
>> And you never saw her again. Is that
right?
>> Now,
not in regards to the will or the
cases, uh but
what do you actually
remember about your mom?
>> Not that much.
Um
she was I mean, I remember honestly
mostly positive things. I mean, she was
a lunatic. Like for real. Huge
personality. Good-looking.
Arrogant. Um
She was more like a man actually, kind
of. Just like big, loud, aggressive
personality. Um
great little crazy.
Uh but kind of stylish.
You know? Um neg- totally negligent. I
remember I remember that cuz I remember
getting hassled at school
because of that. Um
like no one combed her hair. You know,
it was that kind [laughter] of thing.
But, uh
you know, I don't have really bad
memories, really.
I mean, she was pretty outrageous, like
pretty outrageous, like hard hard even
to believe it. But, you know, it was a
different time.
It was the '70s. I mean, honestly, one
of the reasons I never talk or think
about it really is that social mores
have changed so much. The society has
changed so much.
I grew up in a very I mean, this was Los
Angeles in Laurel Canyon or whatever in
1975. So, it's just a different country.
Different kinds of behavior.
People were outrageous. And so, if you
recount it now, it's like, "What?"
But, it wasn't that bad, actually. I
remember thinking when I was little
like, "I'm never raising my kids like
this." I remember thinking that. I had
that thought in first grade. I was like,
"I'm not doing this."
Even then, I was like, "I'm not doing
this. This is not right." This is cuz
you little kids know.
There's drugs and stuff like that. So,
but it wasn't I mean, I had a much
happier childhood than a lot of people I
know whose parents stayed together. I
mean, she split, so it was like
and my father was a remarkable a remark-
really a remarkable, one-in-a-million
type person, like an unbelievable
person.
Never met anyone like that before or
since, so
that was such a blessing to us that when
she left, it was like, you know, boohoo
and you know, she wasn't a huge fan of
ours, whatever, but that's her problem.
That was actually a source of strength
for us long-term, I think, cuz like
you can't control what other people
think about you, including your own
mother. So, that was the lesson that we
took from that.
You just It's not up to you,
you know? And I never blamed myself for
it, which was a lot of kids, like if
their parents don't like them, they're
"What did I do wrong?" I never thought
that.
I was like, "That's your problem. You're
the adult."
Like, I always was clear about that. And
uh
it was not my fault. So, I didn't spend
the next 50 years being like, "How did I
go wrong?" I was like, "No, you're a
nutcase.
It's your fault." Like, I just It
totally ex- I don't know why I stood
maybe Maybe I'm the psychopath or
something, but it just seemed even in
first grade, I was like logical. It was
like,
you know, you like cocaine or whatever
you're into more than you like us.
That's on you, dude.
Um
so, and I still feel that way. And I
feel sorry for her. I'm not mad about it
at all. But we had we had actually a
pretty happy childhood. So, if you have
like an out of control parent,
and the option is living with the person
or not, like, choose the not.
You know what I mean? Like, how is that
good? It's not good. She split. My dad
was the opposite of out of control. He
was incredibly eccentric and totally out
of step with American society and like
a deep, free-thinking intellectual,
crazy person who had this like
utterly bizarre life and all these weird
attitudes, but like they were great
attitudes. They were hilarious at- He
was hilarious and like loyal and loving,
endlessly supportive of us, endlessly
kind to us.
Um
he was just an amazing person. my
brother and I worshipped our dad from
from our first memories until the day he
died last year. Like we never had a
moment we were like,
you know, dad's out of control or dad We
were like, dad's a little eccentric,
like like beyond what is even legal, but
he's amazing. Like we loved him. So that
like more than compensated
for any drama we had with our mother. I
didn't tell anybody about it for like
the first 40 years of my life cuz it was
so bizarre that I didn't
I don't want to talk about it. And I had
this amazing who was like an incredible
person,
beautiful soul, and a just a endlessly
kind person. One of the kindest people I
ever met. What are the What are the odds
of that?
You wind up with a stepmother I mean, I
was a little bit older, so it wasn't
like a typical mother-
son
relationship, but uh especially over
time, I came to think that
she was really one of the greatest
people I've ever met. I mean, what are
the odds of that?
You get a stepmother that you revere.
You know? And I do. I mean it. And it
makes me emotional thinking about what a
great
love just pure love just a loving person
she was. Both my parents were just
amazing people.
So I feel really blessed. So that's
that's it. You know, from my
perspective, it's like
I had a employee with a
one of my favorite employ- a long-term
employee of mine who was like out of,
you know,
very colorful family life. Not this
employee's fault, but just the larger
family was like completely insane. And
my And was very embarrassed about it.
And I said, you know, I grew up like
that, and
it helps to see it as like a movie.
Like if you were writing the script,
you'd be like, that is a wild story. Did
that really happen?
>> [laughter]
>> Cuz it like gives you some emotional
distance. And it's like hilarious. And
my brother's exactly same way. So like
we never would talk about it in public,
but like when we're
you know, alone on a hunting trip or,
you know,
ever we're together, which is a lot,
we sometimes we'll laugh about it. Like,
can you believe that? And it's So we
both have the same
like emotional distance from it, so you
can sort of like It's almost like, I'm
glad that I saw all that.
Like, who who would believe that?
>> [laughter]
>> What?
Anyway.
>> You said your father, uh
passed
last year, 2025.
>> Yep, March.
>> He
He refused painkillers up until the very
end.
>> Yep.
>> What's one thing your dad taught you?
>> Well, that. I mean, that was the
craziest thing I've ever seen. My
father, I don't care what it sounds
like, it's just true, had the best death
of anybody I've ever even heard of.
And uh it was just he was himself until
the second he died. And he,
you know, was a
like a truly eccentric, not in a bad
way, but just like totally uninterested
in what the majority thought. Like, not
even interested at all. My brother's the
same way.
Just not interested in like, not mad
about it, but like, what? That's absurd.
He was just a truly independent man.
Like, you don't meet people like that
ever.
And he'd had quite a life, so that He
was a product of that life, so that's
why he was that way. But anyway, he was
that way till the very end.
And
I don't ever want to judge other
people's end end of life decisions or
whatever, but
I don't because I understand the duress
and the grief that come into play.
But the way that we handle We as a the
system, the medical system, the end of
life stuff is really
dark and bad.
And my father just rejected every bit of
it, and that's not easy at all, as
anyone who's been through it can tell
you. Like, there are all these
well-meaning, decent, loving people
who are trying to impose things on your
family that are not good.
Or they weren't good for us, and were
definitely not what he wanted.
And they were up in his face.
And he banned everyone from except
um
my brother and my wife and me
from
the house
you know for the last 6 weeks or
whatever he wouldn't let anybody.
It was us and his dogs and he just
refused
any
uh painkillers not because he wasn't in
pain he was in like
I mean I think unbelievable pain but he
just wanted to be himself because I'm
dying and why would I want to
be not myself in front of the people I
love most?
And that I mean I
my my brother and I talk about it all
the time it's like will I be man enough
to do that? I don't know. I mean that is
my prayer it actually makes me I tremble
in the face of something like that but
he did it and it was the right thing. It
was the right thing on a level that I'll
never be able to really explain but it
was incredible.
The dignity, the decency, the clarity
what he got out of that in return for
unimaginable suffering was just
unbelievable. When he died
you know we cried but not that much to
be honest with you not that much.
And the takeaway that we had the three
of us and we did his funeral alone the
three of us as we'd done my stepmother
at our family plot. We're the only
people at the funeral.
Uh and we talked about it then and we
had a family memorial later and we
talked about it then too but like what
we took away from his death
in his death he revealed who he really
was
and he was exactly who we thought he
was.
It's incredible.
I mean you can imagine excuse me a
scenario where you get to the end with
someone you really love and it turns out
that person is like not really who you
thought he was.
>> Right.
>> He was so much more who we thought he
was. It was It was unbelievable.
We're just like this is insane.
It was in It was incredible. I visited
him every day and I would always call my
children and say, in the you know years
before he died, and I would always dread
going to see him because it's like so
hard to watch your parents age.
And every single day I would leave and
be like, "Oh, I'm so glad I went. Like
it was amazing."
So many levels, but uh
yeah, it was like the greatest thing he
ever did for us was that death. I know I
know it sounds weird. I don't know what
to say. I'm just telling you what I
experienced.
But it was beyond anything I'd ever
seen. He's the toughest human being
ever. In a good way, not a fake way, not
a I'm going to kick your ass.
Like he was very capable of that and did
do that sometimes to other people, but
uh but he was just a tough in like a
true sense. Like he never complained one
time.
Like period. I mean, he was an
old-fashioned New England person
born at Mass General in 1941.
And he was just a product of his time
and like we, you know,
Protestant New Englanders do not
complain under any circumstances. Even
when they have gangrene in their feet,
they do not complain.
Period.
And he literally never did one time.
>> [laughter]
>> Could I do that? I don't think so. I'm a
product of a different time. I'd be
like, "Oh, my feet hurt."
When you think about
this conversation
uh
the spiritual war going on
and
the last 30 years of your career
it seems to me that the one thing you
valued above everything else is
getting to the truth, trying to speak
the truth when you can.
And hopefully you'll be rewarded for it
by
getting to ask the one person who can
actually give you all the answers you
want.
Assuming
you'll go to heaven uh
what's the one question
you would ask God?
Gosh.
>> Can you let all my loved ones in?
If [laughter] I make it, I'm going to
argue on everyone else's behalf.
Um or I guess what would you ask him
now?
>> Uh what should I do?
I mean, that is the question I ask. I
you know, it's it's so unclear
sometimes.
>> The right decisions, what to say, what
to in try to
inspire another people.
You know, my
problem has always been
saying too much, talking too much. You
know, there are all kinds of warnings
all throughout the Bible, Psalms,
Proverbs,
New Testament to shut up once in a while
and be thoughtful about what you say.
I've always had a problem with that. I
always talk too much.
Um
and I know that it's bad and I know that
sometimes I play out like my inner
monologue in public.
And I think that it has a bad effect on
people. Makes people paranoid or
nihilistic or you know, it's all fake,
it's not worth participating. It makes
people hopeless. Like that those are my
worries for my own behavior.
I also have the capacity to be mean.
I'm constantly calling Tom Cotton gay or
whatever, which I shouldn't be doing.
And or Lindsey Graham or whatever and
I can't I get so mad, I can't control
myself. So I'm like mean and then I
pretend I'm not mean, but I actually
that is meant in cruelty, which is
wrong.
So getting control of myself is uh
you know, a lifelong struggle.
And I'm not very good at it.
So but like what should I be focused on?
What should I be saying?
Cuz you get to the bottom or what you
think at least is the bottom of a lot of
these mysteries and
This is how I feel anyway.
I was like, "Yeah, I kind of knew that,
you know."
9/11 was pretty fake. Okay.
What do you do with that?
Well, it's entirely fake, but it's
pretty fake.
And
okay, but what what that's worth saying
cuz why?
Do Do you know what I mean? Like what is
the point Like what am I trying to get
other people to believe and to do?
And I I spend very little time thinking
about that, and I want to think about
that more.
Because you never think anyone's
watching. I mean, that's the other
thing, you know, when you To me,
everything is my childhood. It's like
the endless
dinner party.
You know, that was always our family
into this day is our family's main form
of entertainment, a dinner party. It's
always a dinner party, always.
Place cards and like bunch of people at
the table, play games, like
conversations, and like
and that just like my whole life is
sitting at a table
talking.
And so sometimes I'm I am not mindful or
thoughtful about the effect on the
listeners.
Do you know what I mean? And you can
like radicalize people by saying stuff
that I think is true, by the way. I'm
not attempting. I'm not doing it for
ratings or whatever. I've never cared
about that. Ask anyone who works here.
But I am not thoughtful about
the effect sometimes. So So then the So
the question really is like what should
I be doing? What should I be talking
about?
Hm. Can't do another segment on
how 9/11 was fake. Okay, we know that.
So
what what next? And I think
I want to do segments that express
the joy of life cuz I do feel like
there's a lot of joy in life.
Other people, nature.
Uh those are the sources of joy for me,
and how do I inspire that in like in
other people?
How do I uplift, not just tear down?
Does that make sense?
What would you guys say he might say?
Well, I should be talking about God
more.
I mean, that's the truth. I should be
talking about God more. That's what
matters.
What matters is what happens in
eternity. What matters
is how you treat other people.
And all of that is dependent on how you
feel about God.
And I should and I'm just embarrassed
because I This is not false humility,
it's true. I do I'm I am very aware of
my own
shortcomings as a man, my own sins.
So it's just and I'm also not, you know,
from that culture at all where people
talk about God all the time. It was
always very very like do not talk The
culture I'm from it's like don't talk
about that. God or money like no.
So it is hard for me to talk about it.
But I feel like I should be talking
about it more.
>> I came to a
a similar realization, I would say. So I
went on my first podcast, talked about
God a little bit.
>> How did it go?
>> It was good. It was
I was trying to maintain this conscious
effort of how do I say truth
while also telling people that sometimes
it's not look worth looking into
the abyss because it can pollute your
mind. You can misunderstand it.
>> That is true.
>> And
ultimately like
everything that's happening now seems to
me like it leads people down a path of
anxiety.
And
I don't know. When you're anxious, there
are two things you can do. You can pray
to God or you can build technology.
If it's dark and you're scared, you can
pray to God, say that it'll be okay, or
you can start a fire. That was the first
technology.
>> Or stock pile
>> Kind of goes out from there.
>> Right.
Yeah. Uh
Those people might invade us, so we have
to get guns so they don't do so. I
bought I bought a lot of ammo, I'll be
honest.
>> [laughter]
>> I'm an anxiety ammo buyer.
But it's It You're right, it's stupid.
It is stupid. I mean, I like to shoot,
but like anxiety ammo buying is dumb.
But boy, have I done a lot of it. Um
No, I think you're right. Inspiring
people rather than
discouraging them,
encouraging people
not to stare at darkness
>> Mhm.
>> is is so important. And I think being
joyful really helps.
The Iran war has definitely derailed me
in this category. Like I've been so mad
about it that it's unhealthy. I'm coming
out of that.
But I just I you know, whatever I like
thought that I could
influence the outcome. I couldn't. So
part of it is wounded vanity, I guess,
probably.
But part of it is just like this is bad.
I'm not
So I've been staring at
the darkness too much. And that's not
By the way, in my personal life, I'm not
like that at all.
I mean, I'm only like that at work.
We we don't talk about this stuff at my
house. We talk about our family, which
is big, huge, and like interesting. And
I could I could live in family world
like full-time.
Wouldn't make any money. Wouldn't you
know, it probably wouldn't be healthy
for anyone else, but like I could never
leave my house.
And have, you know, various people come
and stay with us and involved in all the
little dramas and the triumphs and the
limited sadness. And you know, just like
a life
of the lives of people I love. I mean, I
could do that literally full-time. So
And I think we should all do more of
that, by the way. And so I should
probably
convey
the joy that I feel every single day.
Every single day I feel happy to be
alive and happy for all the gifts
mostly of nature, sunshine and grass and
pine trees and spaniels. And like I
really feel that stuff like so
intensely, it's crazy. But I almost
never it's always like
the people around the country are
horrible, which is so true. But on the
other hand, [laughter] they're already
being punished.
>> Right.
>> Cuz they live in a world without pine
trees or spaniels or sunshine. Like they
they're indoors plotting world
domination. Well, the joke's on them.
It's not worth getting, okay?
The prizes you seek are not worth
having. They will not make you happy.
They will make you miserable.
Having a billion dollars is not the road
to happiness. I know a lot of people who
do. They're not happy.
Having a wife who respects you and kids
who thrive and
dogs on the bed like this way more
important than a billion dollars. And
like I should just say that more
rather than beat up on people who are
already suffering.
>> Right.
>> Like the people who are suffering most
are
like when you think Lindsey Graham is
happy? I should look at Lindsey Graham
the way
you know, God looks at Lindsey Graham or
looks at all of us, by the way, with
empathy and
you're not happy or you wouldn't be
calling for the murder of civilians.
Happy people don't do that.
>> Right.
>> Right?
>> The kind of person
some people might have to become to be a
billionaire is often the kind of person
that can't make themselves happier and
the only thing that they find joy in is
making others unhappy.
>> Yeah, if you make a billion dollars as a
byproduct of doing something awesome,
great. I don't have a problem with it at
all. But if your goal is to make a
billion dollars, you're sick and you're
also dumb because that is not
the road to happiness at all. It's the
road to misery. Literal misery.
It's crazy. I was in some country
a couple of years ago. It was in the
Middle East and I was having dinner with
somebody
who mentioned Larry Fink, who runs
BlackRock. So, I don't know Larry Fink.
Never even met him.
But I was like, "Ooh."
Larry Fink, what a bad guy.
Pushing ESG and climate cult crap and
just basically hurting the world
for his own benefit.
And this guy goes, "Do you know Larry
Fink?" I said, "No, I never even met
him."
He goes, "I know him. I was just with
him in New York. There's not an
unhappier person in the world."
He goes, "I was just in the back of a
car with Larry Fink and like his wife
called or somebody called. He was like
screaming at the person."
I was really in front of you? He goes,
"Yeah, he couldn't help himself. He's
just that unhappy."
And I thought, man, that's all of them.
That's all the people that I
am mad at for misusing their power and
for not loving the people they lead.
They're all in full misery.
And for all my many faults, like I'm
like literally happy all the time, every
day. So, I should be compassionate. I
should be saying prayers for Larry Fink.
I shouldn't be like fulminating about
Larry. Larry Fink, uh.
He should go to jail. Oh, he's already
there, dude. It's just in his head.
>> Right.
Last question here cuz I know you have
to run. Uh
Tucker, what's the best piece of advice
you've ever received?
>> I mean, there are two.
One is broad, one is narrow. The broad
is if you force yourself to be honest in
all things,
which does not mean disclosing all
things. Doesn't mean making your life
fully transparent to the world
or your internal
deliberations public. You don't have to
do that, but not lying. It's a negative
comment. Don't lie.
If you really push yourself on that,
it's First of all, the first thing
you'll
realize is how much you lie, which is
like constantly.
About small things, but you shade things
or you steer You know,
if you fight against that, you'll never
defeat it, but if you can fight against
it, you will be so much stronger. Lying
makes you weak.
And every time you lie, you become
weaker
because you know it's a lie. And
so So have to keep on this ill-fitting
costume. So, just try to make a daily
discipline out of telling the truth in
the small things.
And you become filled with holy power
when you do that. It's just a fact.
And the second piece of advice, which I
always sort of knew, but I'd never heard
anyone say it, but it is it is the
truest thing.
If you want happy children, have a happy
marriage.
That is the truest thing. And the most
important thing is happy children. Like
what are you doing here?
You know, creating is the most important
thing in the ultimate act of creation in
this life is having children, creating
children.
Which is fun, by the way. But anyway,
how do you make them happy? And like I
always noticed raising kids I had kids
young.
There's no like handbook or anything
at all.
There aren't even many books on it, cuz
there's no real answer.
Other than love your children. Well, how
do you do that?
The number one thing is by getting along
with your wife. If you have a happy
marriage, you will have happy children.
It's literally that simple. I believe
that. I've seen it.
It's true for people close to me.
The happier the marriage, the happier
the kids, the more secure the children
will become. And I sincerely think that
people spend too much time focused on
their kids as like a
an emotional
safety release valve where they're like
frustrated.
And kids give you easy affirmation,
which is all great. I mean, it's not
bad, but
you got to spend your first priority is
to your wife.
Number one. And men need to hear that.
And it just pays off. It's much harder
to get affirmation from your wife than
from your children.
I mean, she sees you when you get out of
the shower. She's just not that
impressed after a while.
On like that level.
But
keep take that so seriously.
Take your marriage so seriously. It's
it's super easy. It's not hard.
You just have to pay attention.
That's the discipline of just paying
attention.
Um anyway, that pays off more than
anything. Nothing pays off like that.
That is That's one of those investments
that's just it's crazy
the returns you get off that. It's like
By the way, you married her in the first
place, you like her.
They're pretty easy to get along with if
you just try, kind of.
But people don't try and they get
frustrated and they run away and they
almost always run into the arms not of
their mistress
but of their children.
That's That's the real cheating that
takes place. It's not with the
girlfriends, with the kids. It's
emotional.
So you don't understand your wife, it's
complicated. You're sleeping with her,
so it's it's complicated It's
complicated. It's always complicated.
And you're so close to her that
these conflicts can arise and rather
than
work through them, fix them just by
listening, nothing nothing complex,
you
seek the sugar high of the love of a
6-year-old and you tell yourself that
that's a good thing. I mean, it's always
a good thing to experience the love of a
6-year-old. It's an incredibly beautiful
thing.
But it's also a dodge in a lot of ways.
Focus on your wife and the kid stuff is
just organic. It just naturally flows
from a happy marriage. It's like the
easiest, funnest thing ever
with some
minor interruptions, namely eighth grade
if you have daughters.
But other
>> [laughter]
>> than that, it's like really easy.
But if you have an unhappy marriage,
everything is hell. Everything is hell.
There's nothing There's no way out of
that hell.
It It There's literally no solution. You
can have a girlfriend, you can go to
hookers, you can become an alcoholic,
you can just run away and play golf all
the time, you can get divorced, doesn't
matter. You're not getting out of the
hell. There's no way out. Once you get
married,
if you don't have a happy marriage, you
can make it better, I guess. Like
leaving an unhappy marriage could make
it better, but you'll never really solve
it
because you are joined to that person
permanently. That's just a fact, whether
we want it to be or not. So
um yeah, focus on that.
That's my advice.
>> Beautiful.
Uh
Well, everyone, this has been your guest
Tucker Carlson.
This is the Jack Neal podcast.
I appreciate you coming on.
>> Oh, dude, I love it.
>> Yeah, awesome.
>> That was fun.