If we discover that our government has
held on to anti-gravidic information
from the scientific community, I'm going
to be really pissed.
>> Congressman Eric Burles, Missouri
Congressman Eric Burles.
>> Eric Berles.
>> What's going on here?
>> MIT Lincoln Labs, we found out that
there was a realtore audio file where
you have a a senior official with the
Department of Defense briefing
scientists at MIT about saucers.
>> Whoa.
There is reportedly an object that is
not in this country that is so large it
cannot be moved.
>> What's the craziest thing that's ever
been told to you? Leave. You can leave
the person totally anonymous.
>> This thing was blacker than black sphere
that was floating and it just gave this
sense of just complete evil and
darkness.
So they brought me in and they told me
about the event that happened in the in
the western United States. They actually
personally encountered these UAP. So
they jump in the helicopter. They go to
the location and what they interact with
are basically glowing orbs.
They are some type of spherical nebulous
what's described as like a ball of
plasma.
Neil McCasslin is a general who is
extremely high up. He went super
mysteriously missing.
>> Yeah, we were definitely making
inquiries trying to set up something to
talk to him. Whether there's a body in
the desert, they need to go find a body.
Find the body.
>> I would like a full briefing, the same
White House level briefing that the
president gets on this topic. I want to
be able to go to all these sites that we
keep hearing about. Pax River,
Whiteitman Air Force Base. I'm going to
go to Area 51, Green Lake, S4, all of
that stuff.
>> What do you think President Trump knows
about UFOs?
>> I do believe he's been briefed and that
during that briefing he was told that
there are hybrids. Trump's response was,
"You mean like Adam Schiff
sequence.
>> How is this possible?"
>> Nothing too unusual about it.
Their existence cannot longer be denied.
All right. Well, a lot of the audience
might be wondering why I'm wearing a
collared shirt, which is not a normal
thing for me on this show. It's because
I'm with a congressman. Uh, one of my
favorite congressmen, although you're
from Missouri.
>> I'm honored.
>> No, I I mean it. you're uh you seem like
an angel amongst devils.
A rare uh you know, Dioynes would go
around looking for for an honest man,
you know, in in classical Greece. And uh
you know, he wouldn't find anyone. And
and I think you're a rare salt of the
earth honest man. And I think that's
easy to pick up uh from your interviews.
I think the vibe you give off is very
just earnest and and well-intentioned.
and uh that is uh the least commoditized
thing in in Congress and in the world
right now. So, I appreciate you being
here.
>> It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan
of your podcast, of your show. I uh I I
religiously watch I I'm subscriber and
um I there you should know there's
sometimes where I pick up I glean some
ideas and I bounce them off my staff and
say we need to look into this.
>> Oh, that's awesome. Well, that's that to
me that's the pinnacle because we were
talking a little before rolling and I'm
always like why am I you know sometimes
the tip of the spear on certain things
at least in the open source world on
UFOs. I want people in government to be
following up on a lot of these things.
So it's really heartening and cool to
hear and we you know text occasionally
and stuff too and it's it's epic for me
to hear that you know people in charge
who actually are important and have
power are doing something about this.
>> Yeah. I I have more confidence in your
research abilities than most of the
people that are working for the
government.
>> That gives you an idea.
>> Well, I guess I'll consider myself the
skinniest kid at fat camp. That's a low
bar, but thank you. Uh, nonetheless, um,
uh, I I want to just give people a
sense. You know, I think a lot of people
have heard sound bites from you going
viral on Twitter, that sort of thing.
Uh, just your kind of prehistory before
running for Congress. What made you want
to run for Congress? What were you doing
before?
>> Um, I was a I worked in software. I was
a software engineer. Built one of the
very first patient portals in the
country back in the early 2000s and then
um worked as a consultant for company
called Cerner and then later at the very
end Oracle. Um, and so software engineer
by trade, but also studied finance and
and realized if I was ever going to make
any real money, I either need to own my
own software company or um or go back go
into finance. And so I became a
financial adviser. So boring guy from
the Midwest. That's the best way of
explaining it.
>> We need more boring guys from the
Midwest in in government. Uh, and then
at what point did you decide to run?
>> Yeah. So I would sit in my cubicle. I
mean, my work environment is it was
essentially the the movie office space.
I would sit in my cubicle each day and
and you know, bang out code and or lead
a team of developers and I would listen
to uh talk radio. I'd listen I'd pay
attention to what's going on in
politics. And a lot of it a lot of
things I would listen to would be things
like, you know, speeches by Milton
Freriedman or I or Thomas Soul and I
would read their books um and just and
get really frustrated with politicians
>> because like I think I just have a very
idealistic view of the way things should
be and was just so frustrated the way
that uh the swamp operated and the way
that even the people that I would help
get elected Yeah. they would disappoint
me. And so eventually I decided if the
if you know if I I've got to do it if I
if at least give it a shot.
>> Yeah, I love that the way you're putting
that. Um yeah, get get involved. Be the
kind of man in the arena. And those two
people you mentioned, Milton Friedman
and Thomas Soul, have just such cutting
uh and incisive takes that are timeless
and really apply to today
>> and really apply to the knee-jerk uh
reflexive reactions to people that
people have around kind of the
conversation, especially around
government spending.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and some of the identity politics
stuff, especially with Thomas Soul,
where sometimes you got to make hard
decisions in government and no one in
government wants to make the hard
decisions. They always want the future
generations to foot the bill. And so
those two and people like Friedri Hayek
before them really outlined all of these
philosophies and the convers there's no
conversation around any of this stuff
like that. Like the I really think of
Tea Party Republicans as like the last
Republicans to even be fiscally
conservative. Like you know what I mean?
Well, I'm still that I'm I'm I and I
feel like I'm part of a dwindling group
in in in that realm because as you see
the the party become more populist and
and more and less lazy fair free lazy
fair is like you know hands off the
government hands-off approach to the
market.
>> I'm truly still a free market capitalist
um you know less government respect the
rule of law um a fundamental
conservative. You're on your own.
>> I can't. You're a rare breed anymore.
>> You are seriously. Um Okay. So, and and
how long have you been a congressman
from Missouri?
>> Three and a half years.
>> Okay. And when did you get into UFOs?
>> When I got into Congress. So, being I my
first moment was I just gotten elected.
You try to when you get up when you get
in Washington DC they try first and
foremost you would think that they would
put you or assign you to to committees
that actually fit your talent and your
experience but that is not how
Washington DC works. It's a very broken
environment. So I wasn't put on the
financial services committee or any of
the committees that would have anything
to do with healthcare or uh or anything
to do with software. I was put on
oversight and and uh you know
transportation infrastructure
but you know I'm I'm trying to fi carve
my path trying to find a role and I was
drinking coffee me coffee in my office
one morning just by myself and I was
watching the news and I saw David Grush
come on
>> and here's a and I and I there was
something about him that I just was
inspired by somebody that was bravely
coming forward and saying that in that
interview he mentioned that his he wants
to talk to Congress.
>> And I have been in office for less than
two months, maybe 3 months. And I
thought that's me. I mean, I still have
that role like where I still have a hard
time seeing myself as I'm a member of
Congress. Yeah. But I just kind of I
thought, wait a minute, I'm a member of
Congress. I might be able to do
something about this. So, we reached out
to the studio
>> to the
>> and and and was able to get a
conversation with David like the next
week.
>> Wild. That's awesome. So you something
about him kind of resonated. He seemed
like just an another honest you know and
I think that is the vibe with him too.
He's really this uh kind of team player.
I think most of the colleagues kind of
in his background even working with him
in kind of conventional roles viewed him
as you know just very good at what he
did and then all of a sudden he's coming
out and I think it was a watershed
moment for this UFO topic too because it
was a lot of quacky people before him.
It was
>> there was there were some notable
exceptions. I think Bob Lazar is
actually really awesome and a cool guy
and he was a lot of these people were
saying things that just felt so beyond
the pale, but Grush is really like you
look at him and you're like he, you
know, could be like a relative or
something like he's just a normal dude.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And he's saying some pretty
remarkable things.
>> He was. And and so I thought this is
worth getting, you know, he him coming
forward bravely and saying the things
that he was saying and just there's a
part of me that really abhores and hates
a government that thinks that has the
arrogance to think that it it shouldn't
tell its people what's really going on.
And that that probably is somewhere in
my id of that that drives me crazy and
probably is what's driving me in this
whole topic,
>> especially when it comes to the nature
of reality. like they really shouldn't
have a monopoly over that, you know, if
it's like some sort of little tactical
trade secret warfare advantage, you
know, in the nuclear program. Okay, I'm
pro keeping that classified. When it
comes to this sort of stuff, like, you
know, we're not alone or, you know,
maybe there's something off with our
physics that like academics should be
teaching. Like that seems pretty
fundamental. that it does like to me the
if if somebody's as I was sitting on a
plane on a tarmac once for three hours
sweating and not able to move because of
an air traffic control situation the
thought came across to me that if if we
discover that our government has held on
to anti-gravidic information from the
scientific community I'm going to be
really pissed.
>> Yeah, you should be. And I and I, you
know, as somebody who, you know, I've
gone pretty deep on the anti-gravity
stuff, I think they are. I really do. I
think they are.
>> Um, I think, you know, I always bring up
this guy Thomas Townsen Brown, who, you
know, I think I, you know, made really
>> real world updates in the world of
gravity. There's an FBI document from
the 40s on him that says he is the lead
radar scientist in the entire Navy.
Knows more about radar than anyone in
the Navy. And then now I think we have
pretty good evidence that his work made
it into the B2 stealth bomber. So you
have two out of the three things that
people used to deny that are now kind of
hard to deny. And then the number three
thing is like he's talking about uh you
know merging electromagnetism and
gravity in some way in this form of
electrogravitics. I don't think he's
lying.
>> I I I think it's interesting that people
haven't really done a whole lot of deep
diving into his research.
>> Yeah. Or or the other thing that's
interesting is you have these other
scientists that went missing that were
doing it. You had Amy Escridge.
>> Yeah.
>> Who went missing and uh or who I'm
sorry, she committed suicide supposedly.
>> Committed suicide. Yeah. Or Yeah.
Committed suicide but claimed that she
was
>> people were going after her at the with
directed energy showing burns on her
hands at the end of her life.
>> I found out that I was being physically
surveiled. There's this weird [ __ ]
Lexus and it has tinted windows that are
not street legal.
>> My my hands have been burned to Helen
back as I've been typing
cuz you can beam me through there and
through or through there
>> potentially.
>> And her father was a NASA uh scientist
who was interested in gravity
modification. His name was Richard
Esgridge. So strange.
>> It it is really strange. Her story is
heartbreaking whenever you see the
interviews and and she was really
calling for help as far as feeling
threatened, feeling like people were
coming after her. Um that she need she
felt like she needed to come forward
with what she knew quickly. Um and then
you had the the weird case of I think
the other woman was Ling Lee.
>> Ning Lee. Yeah. Yeah. and who um just
kind of dropped off the map for a period
of a of a few years and then suddenly
there was an obituary.
>> That's right. And uh this is going to
come full circle cuz Ningley really
interesting case where she was using
solid state superconductors rotating
them really fast and she basically said
they emitted these gravitons that uh
engaged in gravitational shielding. And
so you would you would get weight
reduction for anything above the
superconductor, which you shouldn't get
weight weight reduction. You know, the
thing shouldn't lose weight. That that
means gravity is being modified somehow.
It's really kind of crazy. And then she
starts a company. It's literally called
Anti-gravity LLC.
>> And people invest with her, too. Like
her colleagues apparently believed in it
enough that they were putting their own
money behind it.
>> They're all putting their money behind
it. And her she's at University of
Alabama Huntsville. and the chair of her
physics department is a guy named Larry
Smallley. And he's so convinced that the
thing works that he leaves his job to
work for her. So then you have all these
people being like, "Oh, it's fake. She
wasn't doing that. She didn't, you know,
actually get any sort of effect." And
that's obviously BS. Um and so and then
she tragically uh uh gets hit by a car
and dies of dementia years later. But
she really went silent in that first
period when she gets that contract for
her for her company,
>> right?
>> And uh the whole story is very strange
and and this is going to come full
circle because you now are investigating
MITER Corporation as possibly being
involved with UFOs. The last time Ning
Lee really spoke in a public way on
record about her anti-gravity work was
at a MITER conference. I don't know if
you're aware of this.
>> Yeah, I I met her and I did sit down and
I interviewed her and this was at a
conference in 2003 just outside of
Washington DC uh run by the overseen by
the Miser Corporation and it was looking
at I think high frequency gravitational
waves. She chaired one of the sessions.
I talked to her afterwards about it all
and then I don't know sort of how soon
after that it was that she sort of went
off grid certainly probably about within
within a year that she just disappeared.
>> I didn't know that it was that
conference.
>> Yes. Yeah. And they used to convene all
sorts of scientists on exotic science
and stuff and it felt very like a you
know maybe a limited hangout or
something see what people know and
>> Yeah.
>> That's that is interesting to know. I
did not know that. Yeah,
>> something that we could we should
probably look into,
>> I think. So, well, they're so they're a
fedally funded research and development
center, as you know, which is
technically a nonprofit. They're kind of
exempt from a lot of the oversight and
scrutiny that, you know, normal
government institutions would be, and
they keep coming up when it comes to UFO
lore, UFO oversight. Do you think they
have something maybe to do with the UFO
legacy program? I think that there's
enough there's enough rhetoric and
enough speculation that it warrants us
deep diving into MITER. I think we're if
you if you see my work lately, we're
really trying to take a deep dive into
these FFRDC's
>> because they it seems like and and
honestly historically when you look back
at at their formation, they all kind of
were were stood up around the just after
the Manhattan Project, right? So you
have the Manhattan project, that
information gets leaked. Russia suddenly
now has the information of how to build
a nuclear bomb. And I think that our
federal government learned learned from
those lessons and decided we're going to
go about this a different way. So they
spun up all these these uh you know
quasi private entities that I mean so
FFRDC really their only their only
client is the federal government.
>> Yep. But yet they get the benefit of
acting like they're a private business
>> and you have it's really like you know I
think the the cowboy intelligence world
which existed in the 40s and 50s I think
still exists in whispers in these
FFRDC's because it's these guys who you
know if you're GS15 in the government
you're not getting paid as much as you
want. You probably have some
restrictions on what you can and can't
do. these guys in these FFRDC's, they're
subject matter experts. They can get
paid a whole lot. They can dual hat as
all sorts of things. They can consult
for NASA, NRO, you know, all do all
these things at once. And um and then
yeah, it seems like the perfect sort of
cover for for UFO activities. And
specifically, you have aerospace
corporation constantly coming up in the
UFO conversation. Uh I believe there was
even a Wikileaks email between John
Podesta and an IT contractor uh there
about fast walkers. Uh and so you know
and they they always come and you know
Eric Davis of course worked for
aerospace corporation and then the
Institute for Defense Analysis was an
FFRDC back in the day and Harold
Malmgrren was there and he even said on
record uh that was a not official cover
for like what I was actually doing for
the National Security Council. So it
feels like just this place you work at
that's an excuse to kind of do a bunch
of other stuff and possibly UFO related
as well.
>> Yeah. And so we we actually sent a
letter early on to Aerospace Corp. um
and the oversight committee um from our
role from my role to be able to get them
to come in and answer some questions and
they actually responded and they sent um
someone two people from their executive
team but of course they knew nothing.
They absolutely So we got him in a
skiff. They they have no idea what of
any any kind of uh UFOs or reverse
engineering or anything like that. So we
that was the beginning, but that was
that was under the Biden administration
that we had that interview. I I we might
I think we're probably going to reach
out to them again with more specific
detailed questions
>> because I think a lot of these
government entities what even at the
like the agency like the CIA um I think
that all of these programs a lot of
times these these people are coming in
they're temporary workers.
>> Mhm. um they they come in to the role
maybe they do enough deep digging into
to find out what is what did the person
in my role do decades ago but let me ask
most people in any other job don't
really do that they don't look back and
say what did the person in my role do
decades and decades ago so I think that
we're in in a time in which it has been
really if it's true that information has
been so pulled in and compartmentalized
that a lot of the people that are now in
those roles unless they really do some
digging are not going to find it. So I
think that's why we have to crowdsource
it. We have to
>> do the work of getting the details and
then giving it to these people who are
in a position of authority and saying no
you need to go look for a file that's
called XYZ dated this date
>> right that contains this. And that's
where you're seeing my office is putting
out a lot of these interrogative letters
to uh MITER, to Aerospace Corp. to um
MIT Lincoln Labs.
>> Any specific examples of what you're
asking for from any of these
organizations?
>> Yeah. So MIT Lincoln Labs, we found out
that there was a realtore audio um file
from um way back in the 40s. I'm no
sorry, it's like 1952
>> where you have a um a senior official
with the Department of Defense
um briefing scientists at MIT about the
about saucers.
>> Whoa.
>> Right. And so we we found out that that
we got word that there was an audio file
that existed, maybe even more
documentation. So we sent an
interrogative directly demanding that
that that be retained and that we get
access to that audio. And that is
currently they they responded that they
did have that and that they are now
processing it for
>> u for us to be able to at least listen
to it as skiff and and my hope is to get
it disclosed.
>> Whoa. So that was classified and you had
this senior DoD official in 1952
presumably around the you know DC
flyover maybe I don't know in July of
Exactly.
>> Wow. Where you know you had saucers on
the White House lawn was the sort of you
know headline newspaper headline. That's
fascinating. Well, I can't wait to see
what comes of that. So, you think you're
hopeful that that will get declassified?
>> I do. I am. I think that the fact that
they've admitted that it does exist is
is now okay, now we know it's there, so
let's get it.
>> Any other examples of specific things
you're querying? So when the after the
Venia case when when those um
individuals from Brazil came over, I
was, you know, I was there with the with
James Fox and and Leslie Leslie Keane
and we were hearing from these
individuals after the meeting. I I ran
into some of the folks from the FBI that
are actually very much looking want to
look into this and they said, "Sir, if
you want us to look into this, if you'll
write a letter, we'd be happy to to jump
on this." And so we wrote a letter very
specifically asking for details of that
and it and and that's something that the
FBI can look into sink their teeth into.
Right there if if the reports are
accurate that means that there's flight
records. That means that there's there's
some documents that they could actually
go after.
>> Yeah. Well, there was um you know I know
James Fox did this event in DC with you
know three of the key witnesses from the
Bargia event and I know you were kind of
a co-sponsor of the event. You were
there. The truth is if if there's any
government that's holding information
about the knowledge of whether or not we
are alone or not alone in the universe
that is not for any government no matter
how powerful it is to withhold from the
rest of humanity. Yeah, it was the
Roswell of Brazil event of Brazil. So
many eyewitnesses
and so it it gives us an opportunity to
to try to get that information. And the
fact that Brazil is,
>> you know, reaching out and saying that
they want to cooperate with the United
States, they want to they want to, you
know, come alongside us and be open and
transparent as well, I think is good.
It's good that the United States is
leading this because I I'm seeing other
nations come forward and reach out to
our office. I've I've had meetings with
um people from Japan. I've I just recent
yesterday or the day before I had a
meeting with to people members of
parliament from Canada.
>> And so there there are other nations
that are seeing the work that the United
States is demonstrating and and
hopefully that encourages them to also
come forward.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I just got back from Brazil
actually where I interviewed the a
current presidential candidate and
former defense minister Aldo Rebello.
Yeah. and he was basically like, "Yeah,
I have no reason to doubt that, you
know, I think Virginia happened." You
said that fundamentally you do think
something happened in Virginia in 1996.
Believing that a phenomenon like this
exists, of course, because these were
phenomena that had the testimony of
totally credible witnesses. And it was
actually kind of interesting my kind of
expost analysis on the whole thing is he
said I asked him I was like when you
were defense minister did you see
anything specifically around Virginia
Colaris you know these are things that
obviously I think there's so much
overwhelming evidence in the open source
world that you actually have to be
dogmatic and unreasonable not to to say
that nothing happened right so that's
what he was saying essentially in the
interview was like yeah like I don't
have access to classified info
necessarily about this, but you know, I
think this happened. I think you have to
be unreasonable to say that it didn't
happen. But then it was interesting. We
got James Fox, you know, this amazing
documentarian who's documented the
Virginia case more than anybody in his
movie moment of contact. We got him on
the phone and he's talking to Aldo and
he's asking about the body being
transported back and forth to the US and
the US involvement. And Rebello goes,
"Well, I can't say anything that's
classified."
>> We have pretty good testimony from a
number of witnesses on the Brazilian
side that the entities, the the ET went
back to America, but we don't know what
happened to the craft itself. Has heard
any rulers of where the craft went?
>> The information that's held by the
Ministry of Defense
is strictly classified.
So, I felt like that
>> there's a little bit of a tell that
like, you know, and I I don't knock the
guy at all. And, you know, um
>> I think I think it would be very bad for
him if he were to reveal anything
classified. So, you know, I I'm not I'm
not blaming him. I think I think the
fact that he made the statements he did
is is fantastic, but I think he knew
more than met the eye was my takeaway.
>> Yeah. But those very specific um you
know incidents are things that we can
really really get into it can really
kind of I'm I think it's
>> I'm done kind of sending these broad
letters. That's what that's why the the
meeting with Aerospace Corp was such a
nothing burger.
>> So we I think that if we can give them
very specific details
>> and then then you can find people that I
think a lot of them are would be
actually will be surprised
>> Yeah. when they go digging and they
actually find it. Can
>> Can can I send you a request for
something with
>> Absolutely.
>> So So with Aerospace Corp, there's a I
don't know if you're familiar with this
book, American Cosmic. Have you heard of
this?
>> No.
>> It's an amazing book. It's by a
religious studies professor um who
actually wrote about Catholicism before
she got into UFOs. She wrote a book
about purgatory. And um then she started
to look into kind of experience divine
experiences from brothers, nuns and
saints of the the Catholic Church
>> and things like St. Francis of Aisi
seeing sort of the flaming torch on the
mountain in Mount Lever, Italy. And she
was like, "Wo, a lot of these actually
look like, you know, what John Mack, the
Harvard psychiatrist, is looking into
with modern abductions in the '9s."
>> Yeah. and she ends up going down this
rabbit hole and she meets this guy um
who's since been outed not in her book
by other but by other people and his
name is Tim Taylor and he is uh at
aerospace corporation but he's a NASA
mission controller so he's kind of one
of these sort of dual-headed guys and he
tells her openly I'm part of a secret
space program he actually takes her and
Stanford professor Gary Nolan to a crash
site where they look at material
>> oh that's where Gary got that material
Yeah, that's right.
>> Yeah, G, exactly. This like frog skin
material. Gary also gets material that
he studies from Jacques Valet and stuff,
but uh yeah, so really fascinating guy
and he's claiming that he works like in
kind of adjusting timelines, which
sounds nuts, but if you watch Disclosure
Day and maybe they're try hiding truth
in fiction, it's that's kind of what the
movie's about. And he just seems like
this fascinating guy. And I think he was
in touch with certain members of the
UAPTF which is obviously responsible for
a lot of modern disclosure, you know.
>> Um, so yeah, it's it's it's interesting
like I think I think I'd love to know if
can you get him to come out and maybe
come on the show or you know make a
statement or something.
>> Yeah, give me the details. We'll be
happy to
>> Okay.
>> get our team on it.
>> We can we can follow up. Yeah. Yeah.
He's he seems like a fascinating guy. um
you've had some really interesting
experiences where you've uh and this was
kind of an interesting moment in the
weaponized podcast you did where Jeremy
kind of pressed and was like uh you went
to Pax River and they were like well
that's not on record yet.
>> Guys, I I can't really I have not
publicly said that that that I've taken
the trip to Pax River at this time and
so
>> Okay. Can you say anything more about
that? I mean, it's now pretty much out
there that I did go to Pax River. That
was
>> What is Pax River for the the audience?
>> I mean, it's short for Puxic River. It's
a um it's a it's basically the Navy's um
base that um that they do
experimentation. They've that it's kind
of their research uh they they where
they test um their aircraft.
>> Yep.
>> And so it was it was a short drive per
se. It was at least just a drive. we
didn't have to fly there from DC. So,
this all came from a request that I had
that I had made um from the White House
and and and I could tell you that story
if you're interested, but that's
probably one of the more it it goes back
to a vote that was happening, the one
big beautiful bill
>> um or the Working Families Tax Cut Act,
whatever you want to call it. the day of
that vote, we were kind of um you know,
as a fiscal conservative, someone who
really cares about the debt and the
deficit, I was worried about
how how we might impact that with with
extending these tax cuts. And so I was
fighting for every kind of um pay
forward that I could think cost cutting
measures
>> that I could get to in order to pay for
these tax cuts. So it was a long day of
negotiations. I mean, a long long day to
the point where we were negotiating
until 2 a.m.
>> Whoa.
>> And um to this day, Trump calls our
group like the 3:00 a.m. caucus. Like
>> he and not in not exactly in a lovingly
way.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Because But at the end of the day, look,
I didn't go up there to make everybody
in DC happy. I went up there to try to
save the country.
>> That's awesome. Yeah. But in the course
of that really long day, the the White
House staff, which I don't readily have
access to, were there. And I said in in
a moment of downtime, I said, "Hey, you
know, while I got you, can I ask you
some questions?" And I and I and I said,
"We we're getting nowhere in oversight.
We we're asked to investigate this topic
of UA UFOs and UAPs, and we're getting
really nowhere. Everywhere we go, we're
we're getting, you know, we're hitting a
dead end. we're not able to have enough
authority to get any information. And he
said, "Well, what do you want?" And I
said, "This has nothing to do with my
vote, how I will vote on this bill. I
just while you're here, I want to vent
at you."
>> And and he said, "Well, then what what
what would you like?" And I said, "Well,
if you're asking, I would like I'd like
a brief a full briefing, the same White
House level briefing that the president
gets on this topic.
>> I want to be able to go to all these
sites that we keep hearing about." And
he said, I mean, he said, which
locations? And I started with Pax River,
um, you know, Whiteitman Air Force Base.
I want to go to, um, I want to go to
Area 51, Green Lake, S4, all of that
stuff.
>> Have you been to all those places?
>> No. No. And so the first location that
was kind of a low hanging fruit was Pax
River.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but in general, uh, so I I made that
request. the guy that I made the request
to, you know, White House staffer was
grinning. And at that point, you know,
this there's still a stigma. There's
still and I thought, "Oh, he's making
fun of me like
>> and and I said, you know, why are you
grinning? I mean, I'm sorry if this is
if you think this funny." He said, "No."
He said, "I want to go with you."
>> This is awesome.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he took that
request back and a week later um a
liazison from the Department of Defense,
now the Department of War,
>> was in my office saying that he was told
from the White House to make it happen.
>> Wow.
>> And so to me that was remarkable. If you
think about it, Barry Goldwater asked to
go look at some of this stuff when when
he was senator and was turned down.
>> Yeah. He's in fact he specifically said
he asked Curtis Lame to see the blue
room at Wright Pat and Curtis Lame
cussed him out of the room.
>> I called Curtis Lame and I said,
"General, uh, I know we have a room at
Wright Patterson where you put all this
secret stuff.
Can I go in there?" And I've never heard
him get mad, but he got mad in hell at
me. cussed me out, said, "Don't ever ask
me that question again."
>> So, I I'm, you know, we're having to
work out the logistics, but that's my
request is to see that, and I'm going to
keep pounding at the administration and
using whatever points of leverage that I
can to get to get in that room.
>> And did you see a UFO there? Like a
saucer and a hanger sort of thing?
>> No. But if anything, what I was able to
confirm is that some of the narrative
that has been around what PAX River its
role in the UFO or UAP like history. Um,
I was able to actually be on site and
see the facility that would have been
that facility that they were going to
transfer from Loheed Martin to Bigalow
Airspace. And if and I'll tell you just
being there and seeing it um if you were
ever going to do a transfer, it would be
logistically the perfect venue to do
that.
>> And did you see anything exotic where
you're like, "What is that? I don't know
what that is."
>> I didn't see anything wildly exotic, but
I saw some really cool stuff.
>> Okay.
>> Our government's doing some really cool
things.
>> Do you say anything more or Okay, fair
enough. Um, you know, Pax River is
really interesting because in 2018
there's a Navy scientist named Salvatore
Py.
>> I met Salvatore Py there.
>> That's cool. So, he's amazing because
well, he these patents, these Navy
patents involve inertial mass reduction,
>> high frequency gravitational waves.
>> Yes.
>> And pio electric uh superconductors,
room temperature superconductors.
basically all the things that you would
need to make a UFO fly. The creme de la
creme of exotic physics.
>> Yes.
>> Fascinating.
>> Okay. So that that's a part of the
story.
When we when I made that request, they
once they green lit that venue,
we were very specific and saying we want
to see this location and then I said I
want to I want to talk with Salvatore
Pice and and so I was surprised that
they made that happen. we were able to
have a meeting with him and most of the
people there you could tell they do not
they they didn't have a clue what what I
was going to ask. Mhm.
>> Um we started we start started talking
about his patents going down a list of
the patents asking you know have you
have you guys you know have there been
actually have these been put into any
test form and they admitted that one of
them that they did I believe it's the
anti-gravidic one but they weren't able
to have any definitive results. M
>> now
Salvatore P says that that was not built
to his specifications.
>> Um which means and and I I'm not putting
words in his mouth, but I picked up that
had they built it exactly the way that
he had that he had designed it, they
probably would have had a a more
definitive result.
>> Whoa.
>> But because because it wasn't
definitive, they apparently didn't move
on with it. That's that's the what they
said. Apparently, he got kind of messed
with, too.
>> Yeah. It also seems like they have
they've put him in a they've kind of put
him in a different role.
>> Mhm.
>> Um and um and he seems very
scared to talk to anybody.
>> Every time I communicate with him, it's
very cloak and dagger, you know, it's
and it's uh he's he's often feel feels
kind of a it's like a fearful vibe.
>> Yeah. Um, and there was even a moment I
interviewed him and our like it was
really hard to get the interview we did
in some like, you know, janky motel near
Pax River and one of the cameras broke
down and the audio sucked. But, um, I
got to a certain level of the science
where he freaked out and he goes,
"Jesse, stop right there. Like, just
stop asking. I know you're curious, but
like" and I was like, "Okay." And I kind
of stood down. Let's get a little So, as
you hit the Schwinger limit, break
spaceime,
what happens visav this fifth dimension?
>> Well, not
>> okay. We'll not touch on that. Leave it
there, Jesse. Trust me on that. Leave it
there.
>> We we nerded out about the science a
little bit and I'm just like a hobbyist
>> on, you know, trying to understand
quantum physics and that kind of stuff.
But I could tell that the only person in
the room that was tracking with um with
Dr. Pice was um Dr. Kazowski
>> um John Kazowski who was there
>> and um and so he was tracking I was
barely keeping up but most of everybody
else that was in that room walked out of
there not understanding anything that uh
we were talking about.
>> Interesting. Uh yeah well that's cool
that you have the instincts to know that
Ksowski at least is tracking you know
the content. Um what do you think of
him? So he's the new for for context for
people uh the all domain anomalies
resolution office is kind of the modern
project blue book. I'm not even saying
that necessarily as you know with the
connotation of project blue book but
it's the official Pentagon investigation
program.
>> It does have arrow has a bad connotation
or a bad gets a bad rap because of this
guy Sean Kirkpatrick who just completely
dismissed all cases. in certain cases he
seemed like a bad actor and like he
seemed like he was gathering info just
to destroy it or something or not do
anything with it.
>> But what what do you think about John
Kosowski is the new director. What do
what do you think of him?
>> Yeah, he's he's a breath of fresh air
compared to Shawn. Okay. Um and I don't
have anything against Shawn personally.
I just I was, you know, when you're a
member of Congress and you're going into
a skiff and they're giving a a long
presentation and it and it feels like
it's taking forever to get to the actual
like nuts and bolts of what they're
there for. And then it then once they
actually start presenting it was it was
literally a slideshow of we looked into
this and this was a dead like here's
what it was, right? This was a balloon.
>> This is this is a flock of birds. this
is um you know a tent across the horizon
and it and at some point you realize
they're not going to show you anything
that they haven't definitively like
determined is not
>> Yeah.
>> Does it make sense?
>> It makes total sense. I I even think
it's funny to go back and look at the
Condan committee reports which you know
ended up saying blue book was a waste of
time the air force project with Jen
Heinneck where they were looking at UFOs
and if you look at that report you
actually look at the substance over 30%
of cases
were totally still unidentified. Same
thing with Arrow. So Kirk Patrick will
come out and say you know we we never
found any evidence of extraterrestrials.
Well, first of all, extraterrestrials is
an analytical overlay. It's a
conclusion. It doesn't mean you've found
things that are really anomalous and
worthy of further inquiry. So like the
language is like kind of manipulated in
a very specific sort of way. And then
second of all, if you actually look at
the data, again, I think it's over 25%
uh definitely over 25% maybe over 30% in
case I think it might be like 34% of
cases are still unidentified. I'm not
sure about the that percentage, but
definitely
when we pushed them on it and said, "How
many of these do how many instead of
showing us the ones that you have, you
know, eliminated,
>> why don't you show us the ones that
you're still researching and and that
you haven't figured out yet, that the
the mysterious ones?"
>> And that we we that was not something
that Shawn was going to do. And so it
wasn't until John came in that we were
able to actually get that um get that
request completed.
>> Yeah. I mean the stuff that's truly
clearly of a variety and interesting and
worthy of further investigation is the
kind of nuclear connection stuff and
like you have all these guy you have a
great book by Robert Hastings called
UFOs and nukes. He's a meticulous very
not fantastical flowery research. he
doesn't jump to any sort of conclusions.
And you have all these guys, almost 170
of them coming out and they have, you
know, they're very often cleared to
things and they're on what's called the
PRP program where they have to report if
they're taking, you know, any sort of
medication because they're around our
nukes and they're all saying that our
nuclear missiles are getting shut down
and tampered with and they're flyovers
and
>> they're not lying. And then we have to
have some sensor data along with that
and like what what is Kirk Patrick
doing? And then you find out that
Kirkpatre had, you know, worked with
Oakidge and he won a Brook Haven
National Labs award at the age of 17.
And it's like, oh, you might be just
compromised. Like you you might be like
on the pay payroll of like the national
labs and these nuclear programs. Like
that's that data set is obviously an
important data set to look into. And you
can I don't I'm about to have Michael
Shurmer on who's, you know, part of this
UAP White House advisory panel and he's
a skeptic and I'm going to debate him
and I don't I don't think the skeptics
have anything to say about that data
set. I don't think Neil deGrasse Tyson
could say anything about that. I mean,
it's clearly interesting.
>> It is I and I'm interested to see how
this new UAP group is formed and and
what they're how how they're going to
function. I've had uh then you have this
scientific advisory group uh that Avi
Lobo is leading.
>> Yeah. What do you think of that whole
thing?
>> Um I I was hoping that there would be
some more advanced like theoretical
physicist.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> I think having some people that are like
studying particle physics would be would
be helpful.
>> Yeah.
>> On that. But I'm sure that they're still
fleshing it out. Hopefully they
hopefully they'll add some more talent
to that group. I think what's really
interesting is they've added some people
that are like biologists or people that
are studying gene genetics.
>> That's fascinating.
>> Yeah. What are you trying to say? Why
why is that a relevant? You know,
>> I mean, if there if they feel the need
to like to have people on the team that
that do that, that means that there may
be something that they know that they're
going to have to research.
>> Yeah. I'm saying what are what are they
trying to say by you know appointing
those people with those sorts of
specialties and you had I think you had
Lauren Boowart um you know another
congressman uh to ask about like
hybrids. Do you remember this?
>> I don't remember when she asked about it
but I'm sure she did.
>> She asked about hybrids and then it was
just a really weird moment in the
congressional testimony. There are
rumors that have come up to the hill um
of a secretive project within the
Department of Defense involving uh the
manipulation of human genetics with what
is described as nonhuman genetic
material potentially for the enhancement
of human capabilities hybrids. Are any
of you familiar with that? Yes or no?
>> No, ma'am.
>> I am not. Ma'am,
>> I'm not.
>> No, ma'am.
And I think I think Matt Gates has made
a couple statements to this effect.
>> He did. He absolutely did. He said that
there was a someone a military brass
person. I he didn't describe their rank
or anything, but that came into his
office and told them about about
hybrids. I had someone come and brief me
who was in a military uniform, worked
for the United States Army that was
briefing me on the locations of hybrid
breeding programs where captured aliens
were breeding with humans to create some
hybrid race that that could engage in
intergalactic communication. How do we
parse any of this stuff? I mean, you
have, you know, uh uh Tim Bashett, you
know, from Tennessee as well saying that
we have five hot spots, you know, under
the oceans. We have a higher propensity
of sightings around these five or six, I
believe, deep area, deep water areas.
>> Yeah. And he's, of course, I I want to
be clear, Tim was told this, and that's
what he's saying. He was told this,
>> but like it seems like there are a bunch
of guys running around talking to
congressmen like yourselves and saying
these really
>> wild things and then the congressmen
are, you know, they're just relaying
what was said to them. But you you end
up with this sort of like everything is
everything like what's what's going on?
You know,
>> I try to be really cautious whenever I'm
being asked about things and and and say
this is only I don't necessarily believe
this. I don't have any evidence of this,
but this is what was told to me.
>> Yes. You always do that.
>> And and it's and you have to do that
because there's some really crazy things
that are said. And oftentimes when those
people are in my office, I I will jump
to okay, where are the receipts? Like
what what evidence do you have? Do you
have any you anything whatsoever?
>> What's the craziest thing that's ever
been told to you? Leave you can leave
the person totally anonymous.
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What's the craziest thing that's ever
been told to you? Leave. You can leave
the person totally anonymous.
>> I don't want to insult people.
>> Okay. Yeah, that's fair enough. I don't
want I don't When I say crazy, I mean
like wild as far as its impact. I think
that the when we get into the whole
discussion about people using
consciousness to to like call in UAPs or
to communicate when I talk to people
that are saying that they that they
receive a download or they receive
messages uh mentally
>> um look I don't I don't say that these
people are complete liars and I think it
most of the people that are talking to
me absolutely believe what they're
saying. Um, I just have not oftentimes
they're lacking the evidence, the proof.
>> Have you ever said, "Well, why don't you
take me out to the field and we'll call
something in or something like that?"
You did do that. I did. And what
happened?
>> Um, so one night um there was a group
and I think it was like right after a
hearing or something like that. There
was a group that of people that were all
texting me.
>> I mean, all these all these people that
I've made contact with within the U. UAP
community.
>> They were all texting me, hey, what are
you doing tonight? And finally, I just
said, "Let's meet at this restaurant."
And I just sent it to all of these
people. And so just put together a
random group of people. And one of them
was um Chris uh Bledsoe.
>> Okay.
>> And I had never met him before. People
in the group said they explained and he
explained what that he was able to do
that. And so I I had um I had been in a
meeting with um another group
>> um that Greer had brought and I had
asked the same question. So we were
actually at dinner and I had asked that
question. They said, "Well, this is not
the best place to do that here in
Washington DC. If you come out to this
property, maybe we could make that
happen." So the answer was no at that
point. But when I asked Chris Bledsoe,
the way I asked was you say this, you
know, this happens all the time. where
does it happen? And he said, "What do
you mean?" I go, "Like over over the
ocean, over water? Is it does there have
to be a lake involved?" And he and he
said, "No, pretty much anywhere." I
said, "Like in the in the country or in
a city?" And he said, "No, pretty much
anywhere." I said, "What about here?
What about right now? How about tonight
after dinner?" And he and he agreed to
do it. So, we went out on the Capitol
lawn
and and um he did his thing and I kind
of just politely quietly sat and waited
and and and it was getting late into the
evening and eventually after a while
they it didn't you know nothing happened
and so I just said guys I'm going I got
to get I got to you know go to bed. So
you know I it may I don't I'm not trying
to say that to say anything negative
about him. I'm just saying that yeah,
there have been moments where I've had
that opportunity and I said, "Let's do
it. Let's do it right now." Now, they
apparently went back to the same spot a
few weeks later and did the exact same
thing without me there and and and then
they were able to film dots in the sky
that were
>> Whoa.
>> moving. So, um,
>> Congressman, you're ruining it. I don't
know. I'm just Well,
>> you're hurting the signal,
>> right? I And that was kind of the
impression that that they had given me
is that
I I was such a skeptic and a doubter
that I was kind of spoiling this uh the
the Is that if that makes sense?
>> Yeah, it does. But I think you got to
you got to be a skeptic, you know, or at
least agnostic. Have you have you seen a
UFO in the sky? No. At any point in your
life. Okay.
>> No, I would love to.
>> I would love to. So, if you are a hybrid
and you're and you see this video and
you got you got a UAP, I come into my
office. Come come uh visit me. I'd be
happy to meet you.
>> What's the thing that you've heard in
one of these kind of contexts of people
hitting you up? They say they have
information that is the combination of
kind of the most interesting and
impactful but seemingly like maybe
there's some there's some evidence for
it.
Um I I would say the most remarkable
thing that happened was you had this
transition with you know and I think
Tulsi did a great job setting up what
was called the dig the direct director's
initiative group and and she had these
teams that are investigating several
things one of them being UFOs UAPs and I
think that that was probably one of the
lower priorities of the group but they
they were doing that research and they
really didn't dedicate a lot of
resources to it. They had one guy
basically and I think he got discouraged
pretty quickly. Um or not quickly, he
actually he really threw himself into it
for a few years and they got discouraged
and and then um as he was transitioning
out, they had brought me in and briefed
me about about what they had
accomplished.
And then a few months later, they said,
"Sir, we need to bring you back in."
actually reached out to me and said, "We
would like for you to come back in
>> and we want to brief you um cuz things
have changed." So, they brought me in
and they told me about the event that
happened in the in the western United
States. Uh people from Tulsi's team were
actually on site.
>> Wow.
>> For this, it was at one of our one of
our um US mil military installations.
They there was people from the
intelligence community there, senior
intelligence officials. They actually
personally encountered these UAP.
>> Whoa.
>> And they gave me that in a briefing. I
think I was the first elected official
to get that briefing. And so I and they
said, "Sir, we we're pretty much
approached this topic the same way that
you have. Very skeptical
and but we but we feel like we have a
job to go out and investigate this." And
this this um event has completely
changed everything because now we we
know that there is something there. We
just don't know what it is. And you can
read about it in the recent releases.
It's it's kind of buried at the end.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Ironically, the
>> So, so what if we can talk about it now?
>> Yeah. So, I can talk about it now. For
the longest time, I couldn't talk about
it.
>> Yeah.
>> But but it's in that release. It
describes from their perspective the
intelligence people that were there. And
there's two different reports. I can't
say which specific.
>> Okay. So, that wasn't that wasn't
released.
>> I think they don't want to have another
Area 51 where they have people like
storming the
>> um the location, but it was at the end
of the day what they have released is
that pretty much what the narrative that
they told me that they that they were
out there um they were they were there
because there had been previous reports.
So, they were just like they were on
site. They were going around looking at
any kind of debris that they saw or
anything that was out in the in in the
desert and that they they had landed a
helicopter and they got a call that
there the radar had picked up several UA
UAPs. So they jump in the helicopter,
they go to the location and what they
interact with are basically glowing
orbs. M those orbs that have been
described, you know, whether they're
called plasmoids, whatever you want to
call them, the they're like 3 meters in
diameter, sometimes smaller, sometimes
bigger, and they have different shades
of color that they glow in, but they are
some type of spherical nebulous, what's
described as like a ball of plasma. What
would what you would one would think a
ball of plasma would look like. Uh, I
don't think anybody's ever touched one
to know that it's like superheated
material or anything, but it it uh it
definitely was messing with the
helicopter when it got there. They were
they were uh they operated
intelligently. And then at one point
they there were some F-16s that were
scrambled. These things appeared to like
shoot up and chase or follow the F-16s.
So when you're here, when I'm imagine
you're me, you're sitting in the office
of the director of national intelligence
in a skiff and they're briefing you with
firsthand, you know, accounts from
people that were there and uh and and
they said, "Sir, this this has brought
this investigation from being priority
number 500 and something to top 10
>> priorities for this for this government
to figure out what's going It's
fascinating. Wow. Yeah. It's um you
know, Grush just did this, you know,
press conference in DC that I know you
were at and he was asked about like the
various types of life, you know,
morphologies, the body types, that sort
of thing. And he gets into this idea of
sensient plasmoid life.
>> How many species are you aware of?
>> Uh I I certainly don't have the
compendium. It's a continuum from
caporeal bipeedal type life to you know
what I would consider is like sentient
plasmo life but there are there are
several that the US government is aware
of
>> and uh you know that does seem to be
like this this sort of recurring theme
that seems to me of a different variety
than like a saucer and a hanger like
whatever Bob Lazar worked on right
>> do you have a good
>> I think one of the things in this space
that's like missing is like categories
>> a taxonomy
>> the taxonomy of yeah because it's just
there's so much and there's so many
disperate things likely happening.
>> Do do you have a sense of that sort of
taxonomy? Do you have like a map of this
stuff?
>> Well, certainly you hear about the
different things that you often see
whether it's the triangles or the the
saucers, right?
>> Or the or the orbs. I'm not I don't know
that they're they they may be congruent
with each other. for example, maybe they
you see the plasma sphere before the orb
or the uh saucer
>> comes through it. Maybe it's a way of
it,
>> you know, breaking the normal laws of
physics or what we would describe as
normal, right?
>> Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's really
interesting. It's like what Skywatcher,
which was kind of feels like almost like
a public facing version of what the
legacy program was doing. Yeah. which
was like calling these things in and
then and then causing them to kind of
materialize.
>> It almost feels like you're drawing uh
this sensient plasma life form into
reality. And this is again, we're in
very speculative territory here, but
like
>> yeah, you hear things like that time and
time again.
>> It is wild. and and and the fact that
those what's described as those plasma
lights really if you go back throughout
history people describe those they they
seem to appear even in ancient texts
right absolutely and that is the thing
that's very definitive so if you look at
the early history in the 40s of the US's
relationship to the topic you have you
know uh Roswell of course you have the
DC flyover in 47 when the federal
government starts to take this seriously
you Nathan Twining who's a general who
was head of air material command um you
know responsible for all aircraft
development uh for the air force he's
saying these things are um you know
neither visionary nor nor fictitious and
so so so they start to formally look
into it and they create a project in the
air force called project twinkle and
they have this guy Lincoln leaz who's a
meteor expert at um the uh University of
New Mexico and he starts to track all
these uh fireballs these uh green
fireballs which are tracking the plumes
of nuclear blasts after you know atomic
uh tests and they seem to be all over
nuclear sites all all over the country
and there are FBI documents to this
effect there are thousands of documents
between you know 45 and 54 when you had
the U2 spy plane so it's like there's
something going on and it's not our own
recon craft right and they seem to be
intelligently controlled so
>> they do and that's the way that these
intelligence officials described it and
it freaked them out and to the point
where they
>> needed to ramp up their investigation.
They've added more resources and more
people. They've they've they've elevated
it beyond um ODNI. It's now a White
Houseled operation. Um and and they're
pulling in all these different agencies,
whether it's Department of Energy, CIA.
Um this is something that they're taking
very seriously. And they said when I
said in that meeting, I said, you know,
you guys saw, you saw it firsthand.
Surely you have scientists that are kind
of working on this. And they said, "No,
we don't." And I said, "Okay, you get
you've got to have somebody, you've got
to have a team." I said, "Do you have
any idea what these things are?" And
they they assured me that they have no
freaking idea what these what these
plasmoid um type objects are.
>> It's so crazy. Um there's a there's a an
author named Robert Temple and he wrote
a book called The New Science of Heaven
and it's amazing. It kind of reconciles
metaphysics with physics, but it's
specifically plasma physics. And yeah,
it's fascinating. And it talks about
atomic matter, you know, what we see
material in the world as the exception
to the rule in the universe that really
it's 99% this ambient plasma. And
actually, if you think about it, we have
four energy states of all matter, right?
You have um you know, solid, liquid,
gas, plasma, and it's just about the
energy. you know, inserted into each
thing that allows you to engage in these
sort of phase transitions. So, why
wouldn't if we were surrounded by
ambient plasma, why wouldn't you be able
to draw out any of that plasma back into
the material world? And you can
literally, you know, go back and forth
with, you know, any of your favorite AI,
you know, chat GPT, and it'll it'll say
you you can in certain instances. So,
you theoretically you can. So um yeah
it's very it's very it's very
interesting and and he talks about these
um these cordallowski clouds these
clouds of plasma that exist in lrangeian
points between uh earth and uh the sun
and those might be responsible for these
long delay echo transmissions really
>> in the 1920s. Yeah.
>> Is there a lrangeian point between the
moon and the earth?
>> There is there is one. Right. There is
and that that's the cordallowski clouds
are actually the lrangeian point between
the moon and the earth. I misspoke
>> because that's where apparent that's
where we're racing to occupy.
>> Whoa. No way.
>> Yeah. No, we are I know this. We are
racing um as the United States
government to occupy that space and
orbit. You're freaking me out because he
literally just wrote this research gate
paper on which follows up on the new
signs of heaven, his book about how so
in the 20s there when at the kind of the
dawn of the radio age, um they were
sending out all these transmissions and
they would get the same transmission
back and they'd freak out. They'd be
like, why are we getting the same thing
we just sent out? It's called a long
delay echo. It was this very weird
phenomena. And if you if you actually
watch Carl Sean's contact, you know,
Robert Zmechus' amazing movie, um you
you see that the first message we get
back is Hitler speak and he's speaking.
>> Oh,
>> and and it's so this really unfortunate
thing where you're like, why are we
hearing Hitler? And it's kind of I think
paying homage to this long delay echo
thing where it's like mirroring us. And
if you think about people's experience
with a lot of these sort of plasmoid
objects, it's like with Jake Barber,
like he locks on to the the craft and
there's this sort of consciousness
mirroring thing. And so Robert Temple
wrote this uh uh kind of follow-up
paper, research paper about these
Cordelovski clouds which might be
conscious. And so that's fascinating. So
we're racing to go there now.
>> We are because of the it's it's a look
the apparently it's a very strategic
location. M
>> and and it's super critical that we get
there and that we occupy that space
before China does.
>> That might be disclosure cuz that that
almost I wonder if um whatever maybe
maybe the maybe the orbs coming uh to
these nuclear sites and stuff maybe
they're like emissaries of this sort of
you know Cordallowski cl. If you were to
leave something to control or to as an
artifact or a relic or something to uh
affect some future civilization or
affect a civilization you've departed
from, you would put it in a lrangeian
point. That is where you would put it,
>> right? Because it would it's the place
where there is really no grav the orbit
the gravitational orbit of of the earth
>> neutralizes itself and the moon are both
neutralized.
>> Exactly. So you're stuck there. So that
would be that would be where you would
put it maybe to uh you know if you
wanted to leave some sort of remnant or
something. It is fascinating.
>> You know I did I do know Jake Barber and
I met him um I reached out to Jake um
through through other people through
David and other people and then
eventually he he agreed to meet with me.
And so I I took a trip down to
California met with Jake. An interesting
story there is that we we met at a
private airport in um in Burbank and it
was just me waiting for for Jake to
arrive and it was uh Jack Black.
>> No way.
>> Yeah, Jack.
>> How Why was Jack Black there?
>> He was there to to take a private flight
up somewhere else.
>> So randomly randomly.
>> And uh and so
uh Jake shows up and and and I he goes,
"Do you know Jack Black?" And I go,
"No." And he goes, "Let's just say
hello." So he went over and said hello
to Jack Black and um and he and we were
just making small talk and he said, "So
what are you guys?" He told us what he
was doing and he said, "What are you
guys doing?" And Jake said, "Well, we're
just going to we're going to fly over
the Black Desert here."
>> And uh Jack goes, "Why in the world
would you do that?" And he goes, "Well,
this is a congressman."
And and Jack Black goes, "Hello,
congressman.
>> That's awesome." And and then he said,
"And we're going to fly and go look at
some super secret stuff."
>> And Jack Black's jaw drops.
>> Did he say, "Take me."
>> Yeah. No, he had he had otherwise um I
don't he might have wanted to go with
us. It seemed like he he would have
wanted to go with us, but that was one
of the neatest moments. To this day, if
I meet a child like or like if somebody
like somebody with kids,
>> um if we if we get talking like in my
Sunday school class, I teach these fifth
graders at church and they don't know
who I am. And that's awesome. That's why
I do it because they don't really know.
>> But if I ever want any kind of cred,
street cred, I get out my selfie with
Jack Black.
>> That's awesome. That's so cool.
>> But no, Jake was a great individual and
and somebody that I I is kind of like
Grush. Like I truly think he genuinely
had his his experiences and and that and
that's you know this life these last few
years have been wild to be able to say I
went out flew with a former you know
special forces guy.
>> Yeah.
>> You know over the Black Desert looked at
some military locations installations.
We flew over one of the Loheed Martin
facilities and it was wild because it's
this kind of bowlshaped thing in the
ground and there's a huge hanger door.
It's clearly an underground structure
>> and all these white vans come racing out
as we're as we're flying circling this
um thing and they all just kind of post
up and are watching us as we're
>> as we're circling over it.
>> That's wild. And it's not restricted
because it's so kind of secret that they
don't want to restrict it,
>> right? Restricting it would somehow
identify it or something. Fascinating.
>> Whoa. Um, Michael Herrera, who's another
UFO whistleblower,
>> he, I believe, has an interesting story
where Jake Barber, after getting into
contact with him at this Greer event,
takes him underground to this Edwards
Air Force base and possibly shows him
some sort of UFO or craft. Did you
experience anything like that?
>> No. No. I I wish Jake I I wish Jake had
done that, but uh No, I've not I did not
have the Michael Rare experience.
>> Okay. Okay. Maybe next time. But Jake is
one of those guys where uh
some of the stuff on first glance seems
beyond belief, right?
>> But the longer time goes, his stuff
keeps just getting proven out.
>> It does. Like he comes out, you know,
year and a half ago or something and
he's like talking about psionic assets
getting rounded up in sometimes some not
so ethical ways, right? and that, you
know, kind of human cargo and sometimes
from disaster zones around the world.
And they're hired by these, you know,
black aerospace programs that are really
there's so much plausible deniability
between these outfits and they're
actually the contractors that they're
like they're completely invisible. and
he was kind of implying that he
basically was one of these kind of
hidden hands and um and that these
psionic operators get used to call in
craft and then they they land and it's
it's just it's a wild you think that
that's crazy, right? You think that
that's this insane thing and then
>> you got Matt Gates for example, he I
don't know if you know about this. He
was doing a Twitter space and he's
telling about, you know, one of his
constituents who who came into his
office saying something very similar.
>> How in the hell do you get like the
humans and they say, "Oh no, it is
natural disasters." Um, they said
actually sadly the unaccompanied minor
crisis and the caravans that just had
like kind of unaccountable swaths of
humans,
>> which is people getting rounded up in
sort of disaster zones when you don't
know that if they're going to go
missing.
And it's really wild. And and then you
know uh Jake Barber also wrote a book
called Sentinels of Ether which was so
redacted by by the you know the Pentagon
censored it
>> supposedly a fiction book.
>> It's a fiction book but it's not a
fiction book. Seven pages of the 20
which are just the 10% of the whole book
get blacked out get censored and and and
and are deemed classified. So, he's one
of these guys where I I think a lot of
what he's saying is pretty pretty
spot-on and on the target.
>> Yeah, he I think he's he's definitely
Look, and maybe I'm just naive, but
whenever I'm talking to Jake, when I'm
talking to these people, I feel like
they're not they're not trying to be
deceptive.
>> Yeah.
>> Um if anything, so like to me, Jake had
all the reason in the world to not talk
about the psychological impact that he
had. Uh I mean in fact people told him
if you want to be you know if you want
to be taken incredibly don't don't bring
up the emotional feeling that you had
right when he was when he described
being in the helicopter while he's
carrying what was I think he described
as an egg.
>> Yeah. I think the emotional reaction was
to the eight gone craft I believe. Yeah.
So I think he had all the reason in the
world to not to not go into that and yet
he felt compelled that that's that he
had to say that.
>> Yes.
>> To me that's an indication of somebody
who
who who really feels strongly
passionately. He's not doing it for
financial gain.
>> That's right. And I look I've met two
people that claim to have interacted
with the craft, him and Bob Lazar. And
they both say they experience emotional
and ominous feelings around them. And
then the psionic operators I've met who
know how to systematically
>> I met with a third one that you have not
mentioned who said the same thing.
>> Okay. and and and
>> so he's not public and he probably will
never go public, but he uh served in
special forces, was in he was um he was
in the field and was brought into a room
and and what he describes as a hovering
black
um again it's appears like it's
threedimensional or 3 mters in diameter,
but this thing was blacker than black
sphere that was floating and it just
gave this sense of just complete eat
evil and darkness is the way he
described it.
>> He felt ill just being around it. He
felt like there was just something
really bad about it and didn't didn't
want to go anywhere near it.
>> And was this at an aerospace facility or
>> um it was it was overseas.
>> It was overseas.
>> And you can imagine, you know, he's
working during the time period which we
were in in war. So you can imagine it's
it's one of those locations whether it's
Iraq or Afghanistan.
>> Whoa. But it was in US possession or in
>> Yeah.
>> Mhm.
>> And so we had captured it there
>> or or that we it was a tech that we
have. I don't know.
>> It was maybe maybe actually human
technology or or you think genuinely
nonhuman.
>> He absolutely knew that it was e either
derived from alien tech or that it was
um that that it was captured.
>> It was a blacker than black sphere. That
makes me think of the Lazar thing where
he has his sort of, you know, uh,
reactor and it can create this almost
little mini black hole or something
that's blacker than black.
>> And then rotated the emitter. I don't
know if it was another direction or more
the same way, but it made a little black
ball in the air where no light was
escape escaping looking like a little
black hole, but no, you could just tell
there was no light at the focal point
right in the air. It was just a a dark
area. So there it's affecting light, but
it wasn't in the candle test before
that. So it it it's a really unusual
>> Huh. That's fascinating. And he had just
a really bad feeling about it.
>> Mhm.
>> Anything else?
>> That individual was very clo and dagger.
>> Um very very difficult to get was very
difficult really. Whenever I talked with
him, he he was warning me that that this
uh he was warning me about the dangers
of the physical dangers of getting
involved in this in this topic. What do
you make of that? And do you think it's
really dangerous?
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as the Philadelphia experiment, and it
worked sort of. It disappeared,
reappeared, and then half the crew got
atomically fused into the ship's walls.
Others just vanished. No one was where
they were supposed to be. Talk about a
breakdown in communication.
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sent you.
I you know you've got some people that I
think will dramatize it and say, you
know, my life is in danger and I think
to try to get an appeal. I I don't live
my life that way. I don't live my life
in a in a way in which I'm looking over
my shoulder. I feel like if if it's my
time and God's ready to take me home,
then that's his timing. It's always in
his timing. So, I'm just going to do
what I'm going to do until until that
happens and not worry about worry about
it. But I I mean, we've you know, I've
had more death threats from unions
whenever I was trying to pass right to
work legislation than I have from uh
people on this topic.
>> Yeah, the topic's so it's so out there.
Um, sometimes it feels safer than
politics, which is like the most heated
sort of sort of thing. It's like, you
know, like, uh, I sometimes, you know, I
think Tucker Carlson's probably in more
danger than me, you know, doing doing
what I'm But in other times I'm like I
get a little spooked and I'm like, this
is I don't know if, you know, I should
be Yeah. talking about this or
>> but when I talked to people like David
Grush and and Jake Barber and some of
these other guys and the the individual
that I mentioned and they b they all
kind of seem to warn about the same
thing um particularly from the private
sector that there's certain uh private
sector companies that they that they you
know claim have some nefarious actors
that will do kinetic activity. In other
words, like a wet works type type arm.
>> That That's kind of disturbing to hear.
>> Super disturbing. Uh speaking of which,
both Grush and Jake Barber knew Matthew
Sullivan,
>> right?
>> Who was uh found dead two weeks before
he was supposed to testify before
Congress. Um the rumors are and I just
had Jeremy
>> I don't know that he was going to
testify in a in a hearing as much as
coming to come to to speak to some
members in a skiff or in like in maybe
even in an office.
>> That's right. Yeah. So privately, you
know, give give his information
>> which is the precursor to coming before
in a in a public hearing.
>> Sure. Yeah. And uh I've heard that maybe
he had some firstirhand experience with
craft.
>> That's what I was told too.
>> Okay. that he was he was in the legacy
program, had firsthand experience with
craft. Um, and that when I first met
Grush, he was shaken by the um the
Matthews death and really wanted I mean,
if anything, he was trying to get my
help in trying to get that exposed. And
>> he had submitted that to um the off I
think it was the office of inspector
general. They said that it's warranted
and credible that it should be
investigated. And we I took we took that
information. We've composed a letter,
sent it to the FBI uh through the
oversight committee only to later we we
we had been told that it had been sent
later we found out that it had never
been received.
>> What?
>> No, it had not been received by the FBI
and that was during the Biden
administration. So it may be that it was
lost in transition or something. But we
had to resubmit that letter.
>> So is the FBI now investigating Matthew
Sullivan's death? I don't I don't know
if they have the I don't know the status
of that investigation, but I believe
that they are. I strongly believe that
they are because they've they've
indicated that they won't talk about an
active investigation, which which is
kind of the tell that they are actively
investigating.
>> I would hope they are. Um did you ever
interact with Matthew yourself?
>> I did not.
>> Okay.
Yeah. Do you do you have a sense of kind
of various configurations or geometries
of crafts? you know, people think of the
proverbial flying saucer. Do you think
it's just that? Do you think you
mentioned a few others, you know,
earlier? Triangle.
>> I mean, you Lou's book um describes it
as though
the reason why those those shapes seem
to make sense is that you've got some
kind of anti-gravidic device. Like if
you have a smaller thing that creates a
bubble, a gravity bubble,
>> then that would naturally fit a an orb
or a disc, right? Mhm.
>> And then then if you if you have two
then it would look something like a tic
tac. If you have two of them, right, or
a tube and then if you have three it's a
triangle. That's that's in L's book. But
but I have I'd have no evidence that
that's the case
>> only from what I've heard from other
people.
>> Lou is obviously very interesting
character. He's
you can't say he's not responsible for a
lot of modern disclosure. you know, he
helped get that New York Times article
published in 2017 uh through Leslie
Kaine and he was, you know, in charge of
OAP. Uh lately, you know, this sort of
thanks to people like UAP Gerb people
who've been saying that he's actually,
you know, maybe more implicated in
legacy UFO program activities. I think
Ross Koulthart said that as well. Um,
and if you even watch him in front of
Congress, you know, uh, in September of
24, he's saying, "I can't confirm or
deny being read into, you know,
Immaculate Constellation."
>> Um, Mr. Alzando, were you read into the
Immaculate Constellation program?
>> I would not be authorized to confirm nor
deny the existence of any ongoing or
past program, especially as it relates
to a special access program, either by
name or trigraph. The implication being
that maybe he was read in. You know, I
interviewed him and, you know, it often
feels like he's sitting on a lot more
information than he can say. He he'll
self admit that. Yeah,
>> I think he is. And I think Yeah, to your
point, I think that he
>> he does not deny that. I think that Lou,
when I I feel like Lou wants to tell you
everything,
>> but he also is a patriot and he's going
to abide by his non-disclosure
agreement.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so he will he will do go
through dobs which is that that process
where it allows them to say things um
whether they'll try to put things into
form of a book form that see what what
can be released and then they can they
know what they can talk about after that
pro that process is over. They're
constantly putting things through dobs
to see what will shake loose that they
can talk about. And so I feel like he is
someone who who is going to be loyal to
his oath to the country, but he wants to
get the truth out as much as he possibly
can.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And our our mutual friend
UAP Gerb who's a great UFO content
creator who's uh just extremely detailed
on kind of mapping the legacy program.
He kind of notes that um you know
intelligence support activity uh and
gray fox which do recon in super
sensitive situations in areas before
JOCK does but it's part of joint special
operations command you know that Lou was
a part of that and um so yeah
interesting connections there and and
then you get you ask this sort of meta
question which is why in 2017
did the program say maybe it's time to
out itself or like did you know was
these elements of the program that are
like this isn't being run well and right
>> and so like we have to come out and we
have to reform this get a certain of
information a certain amount of
information out there or like what
>> yeah I think it was their attempt of
trying to compartmentalize what they
could release without giving away our
good tech right the things that we
>> our technology and so I think that they
saw that there's there's
>> there's enough um and and that's we have
seen that ourselves like I get people
from that are active military personnel
that come to me as a member of Congress
and and have videos that they they'll
show me they'll they'll have information
which which helps us identify what we
should be asking where you know what we
should be sending letters about and I
think that they acknowledge that there
is if they don't if they don't start
managing the the the release of
information what can be released and
what shouldn't
that it was the dam was going to break.
>> That's my that's that's just my best
guess.
>> Yeah. So, they're trying to get in front
of what they know is going to leak
ultimately anyways and sort of manage
how it comes out
>> and ensure it's not this sort of
catastrophic thing.
>> That's my best guess.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's a good
guess. Um along the lines of, you know,
we were just talking about Matthew
Sullivan. You have this sort of missing
scientists narrative generally. We
earlier we were talking about Amy
Esgridge and Ning Lee. Uh Neil McCastlin
is a general who is extremely high up. I
believe he was on the special access
program oversight committee which Lou
was as well. And so he was cleared to
you know more things than the president
probably and was you know head of the
AFLRL at Wright Patterson the Air Force
Research Laboratory. Uh, and he was the
source for a lot of Tom Delong's kind
of, you know, disclosures in his, you
know, quote unquote fiction books, you
know, secret machines. Um, he went super
mysteriously missing.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, what do you think about that case?
>> To me, that's whether we've got to close
that loop. I mean, this is a person
who's walking around with some of our
nation's most important secrets. I think
it's important that we identify what
happened to him.
>> Yes.
>> Um whether there's a body in the desert,
they they need to go they need to go
find a body. Find the body.
>> Um or find out if he decided to go to
Cabo and just disappear. I don't I don't
know. But at the end of the day, we need
to find out what happened to this
individual. I know he was on my list of
people to talk to. I know that David
Gush had sent he he had sent someone to
interview General McCasslin and was not
able to get a whole lot out of him. Um,
but I think McCasten knew that we were
we were we were definitely making
inquiries trying to set up something to
talk to him. Well, that's weird that you
know uh it's like a you know a week or
so after Trump you know and Pete Haggsth
are saying we're going to officially
look into this stuff. Here's a guy who's
cleared to everything. He's publicly
associated with Tom Dong and sort of
some of these, you know, disclosures and
then you're looking into meeting him and
then he just disappears entirely.
>> Yeah.
>> The strange fact pattern and then he
leaves his phone, right? And
>> leaves everything.
>> He leaves everything but he takes a gun.
>> Well, that but they don't know that he
took a gun.
>> Okay. But one gun was missing.
>> Maybe missing. That's it's not
confirmed. Okay. When
>> you really read through the reports,
>> but there's also no no ring camera
footage, no footage of him having it
felt to me felt a little premeditated.
>> Yeah. Well, the fact that the the latest
information is he went to REI and
purchased a medical kit,
>> like a travel like a backpack, what you
would take on a long hike, like some
kind of medical.
>> Oh, wow.
>> So, why would if you're going to go kill
yourself in the desert, why would you
take a medical kit?
>> No, you wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I
think he he knew what he was getting
himself into. And then,
yeah, I feel I feel awkward bringing
this up, but his his wife, you know,
made this call and apparently he was not
doing well um you know, towards this. I
think he was feeling a little anxious
and like, you know, not in the the
greatest health. And so she says that to
to 911 and this call is like now, you
know, out there. But she then follows up
on Twitter and she says like, you know,
maybe the best explanation for this is
an alien having, you know, abducted him
from a mother ship, although no mother
ship has been found in the local area.
>> That's strange. It is.
>> It's strange. And you're you're asking
for speculation when you say that. It's
that's a weird That's not a normal
statement.
>> It's not. And I guess people grieve in
different ways and maybe but but her
grieving is one of the most
>> different ways I've ever seen someone
grieve over the loss of their loved one.
>> Um so I I can't I can't explain but but
to your point I agree her her response
has been very unusual.
>> Definitely unusual. Speaking of unusual,
you had going viral all over Twitter
this idea of this meeting of these
highle intelligence people who seem to
know more about the UFO issue than
people, you know, than than people on
the civilian side. And they are meeting
with these pastors and religious leaders
across the country and convening them
and telling them to prepare their their
churches. They wanted to have a meeting,
an urgent meeting where again we go into
this Airbnb, we have to turn our phones
on airplane mode. There's no recording
of the meeting, but ultimately the
purpose of it was disclosure is coming
quickly. And these people who are
working in in government agencies are
pleading with pastors. They're pleading,
please prepare your people so that they
are not deceived by what is coming.
>> And you were somehow thrown into this
whole conversation. Do you want to talk
about this?
>> That's a
that's an that was that's an interesting
side part of this whole journey. Um it
seems like every time you have this
conversation about UFOs and UAPs, it
always kind of brings up the the
question of spirituality or or you know,
are these angels? Are these people some
people say they're all demons? That kind
of thing. It but it inevitably always
comes up. Um,
I don't know how to like explain this,
but there's a group of people, and I
don't even really know what they who
they really work for, but they are very
clandestine. They are former special
forces, former military intelligence,
and are working for somebody in the
private who who has given them the
ability to investigate this as a side
task. That's my best guess because they
you'll never get out of them who they
really work for. Um, they
they seem to be good actors because they
whenever I talked with them, they they
they kind of bumped me is the best way
to describe it in Washington DC with a
at a different meeting. The person that
bumped me uh later on that night pulled
me aside and said, "Hey, my name is not
really
>> XYZ." and and I want to and I but I
really am looking out for you and I want
and I can tell you that the these some
of these people that we've been talking
to you probably shouldn't be trusting
fully trusting and uh I wanted to see if
you want to sit down and talk and he and
he he related with me a shared faith
that we both are Christians we both um
love Jesus um and uh and so and he was I
could I you So I could tell that he was
genu absolutely genuine in that. He
wasn't making that part up.
>> Sure.
>> So
I, you know, at the end of the day, I'll
talk to most anybody and I was open to
talking with him and meeting with other
people. It turned out that it was fairly
organized, wellunded operation of guys
that are all, you know, of Christian
faith who have a lot of concerns about
some of the activity that's going on.
and they they wanted to kind of um you
know kind of maintain a contact,
maintain a connection. They've I would
say this group has been extremely
helpful to me.
>> Extremely helpful.
>> How so?
>> Um they've brought people whether
they're whistleblowers to me. They've
brought tips. They've brought um you
know lots of really good information.
Um, so I don't feel like they have I my
personal interaction with this group is
that they um they're they they're
actually they they're on my side.
They're they want to be extremely
helpful and they're very transparent.
Other than that they won't talk about um
their their funding.
>> What do they do daytoday? Are they
working with UFO stuff or
>> um I don't I I it sounds to me like
they've got a they've got a contract to
investigate a broader topic
>> and that UAPs are part of that.
>> What's the broader topic?
>> Could be, you know, incursions on the
United States, like drone incursions,
things like that.
>> So, and I I'm that's just my makeup. I
don't know exactly
>> um just from having conversations with
them. They also seem to be investigating
human trafficking
>> quite a bit. So, in any event, in the
course of our conversations
that came up that, you know, one of
these individuals is is is actually um a
chaplain, if you will, and he uh I I
said, you know, you you should this
topic really the church needs to be
prepared for this and we need to have a
conversation because lot a lot of people
are going off on very wild tangents and
this and I my view is that This doesn't
ne this absolutely actually does not
reject the biblical worldview. If
anything, the more that I look into it,
the more it really strengthens my faith.
>> It more really strengthens
>> it makes it takes the story of the
Bible, if you take this into into
context, right?
If it is true, it it can take the story,
the narrative, the biblical narrative,
and and put it on a on an epic scale,
like a universal
scale, right? Like this is a a galactic
story of the creator of the entire
universe, creating all of these, you
know, planets, all these. And it does
make sense that there'd be much more out
there. There's a reason why there's all
this space. There's got to be other
things out there. And that if um but of
all the places chooses this location and
this people and this species to want to
commune with that that this God says I
want to create my image is going to be
this this being this human is going to
be my basically my representation to
this whole universe. M
>> so to me it takes that story and it
makes it puts it on a grander scale and
explains potentially why if there's if
there's other beings Timothy Alberino I
think has probably done some of the best
thought work on this
>> and and and so I I would highly
recommend people pick up his book
Birthright because it seems to me it's a
very logical way for a Christian to
approach this. Well, anyway, these these
individuals were also kind of in the
same vein and they decided they were
going to put together a group of pastors
kind of slowly bring them into this
conversation, see where they are and and
they invited me to that event. I said I
couldn't make it, but I would be happy
to be on a phone call. And so they
brought me in. I I said what I basically
what I've just said to you, which is
that look, it's important that we don't
have that we don't really just
completely ignore this as a topic. If
anything, if something does happen, it
doesn't really shake it shouldn't shake
your worldview at all. Um, and I and I
kind of explained my how that didn't
shake my worldview. And then they said,
so then later on
these pastors started talking about this
experience and they some of them put
words in my mouth if you will saying
that I said what's going to happen. I
think one of the pastors later on came
out and apologized and said Eric Berles
did not say this. I believe this. Um,
but when I was saying it, I should have
separated the fact that what he actually
said versus what I what I believe and
what he said that he believed was that
that this that these are all demons
>> and and I would not I have not I'm not
going to jump to that kind kind of
conclusion.
>> Clearly that's not the case for you
because you're looking into this stuff
all the time. You wouldn't be spending
all your time looking into demons if you
thought they were all demons.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> Yeah. Um, have you heard of this group
called the Collins Elite by any chance?
>> I have. Yeah, that's an interesting part
of this this whole um narrative. Yeah,
because you know like people like Lou
Alzando and a lot of the the crowd
behind you know to the stars academy and
like a lot of the people around modern
disclosure describe the Collins elite as
this sort of uh very embedded in the
government faction of of deeply
fundamentalist Christians who don't want
to study this stuff scientifically at
all because they view it as demonic and
they'll literally cite Bible passages
around Lucifer being kind of the ruler
of the skies. Um, do you think that this
group that's in touch with you is at all
connected with the Collins elite?
>> I I don't I don't believe so. I I mean I
but I don't know for sure. They could be
>> I think it in general, and this is
actually the opposite of what what I was
trying to get to, which is that,
>> excuse me, I would disagree with
somebody who is of the Collins elite
view. I disagree with a religious leader
who definitively says we shouldn't be
approaching this or talk or talking
about this topic because it is all
demonic. I don't like I don't have the
evidence that that's the case. If
anything,
as a Christian, what would you say to
Mary when she was approached by the
angel Gabriel? Don't talk to anything
that's that that isn't from this earth
because it's all demonic. Right.
>> Right. And so that that's like the first
thought that I have is that when you
when you read the Bible, most of the
times in which an angel or something
that's not of earth
>> Yeah.
>> comes forward. I mean, this is all
assuming that that's what you believe.
If you if if you if we assume that what
we're experiencing are beings that are
described spiritually as either angels
or demons or etc. part of that kind of
category, then then go back
historically. Most of the time that
people are are getting a message or get
or having a conversation, it's not from
a fallen angel. It's from um it's from a
messenger from God. Like the word angel
literally means messenger from God. It
doesn't categorically say that this is
what what this uh being is. Uh it does
describe different beings like cherubim,
saraphim, right, the watchers, which are
kind of interesting. Um, and they're all
kind of utilized by God to be a
messenger or an angel, but I mean that's
a long tangent, but that that's to say
when I apply my my biblical worldview to
this topic, if that were the case, I
wouldn't necessarily jump to the
conclusion that they're all demons.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is why I don't really I don't
really have a lot of high view of the
Collins elite perspective.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I uh I agree
with you. I think um to say that you
know none of the spiritual overlays that
we've you know had for years like you
know a lot of you know Judaism,
Christianity, Islam like none of those
apply as somehow to what we're looking
at now I think is dogmatic and and and
crazy like of course like they might you
know a lot of these things I like the
concept of Lindy if they've something
has survived for thousands of years it
probably has value and so probably has
value as far as describing, you know,
the nature of things, some archetypal
value. And so to say that the Bible has
no archetypal value, I think, is sort of
sort of nuts. And then, yeah, I find
myself sort of in between that and then
the other side is like, you know,
sometimes I'll hear people like Sean
Ryan or Tucker Carlson, they'll be like,
"It's spiritual." They'll be like, "It's
just, you know, it's it's demons or
something." And it's like, well, what is
an angel? What is a demon? like are c
can we not inquire into what those
things actually are those that's sort of
a low-level descriptor that ends any
conversation right and and and you can't
have one without the other even in the
biblical context so some might be really
good you know so
>> that's right that's that's why that's
why again I go back to what Timothy I
think Timothy Alberino's work is is he's
he's really kind of analytically
logically approached this
>> to say for example like if you were
visited by people from from another
country. Go back in the time in which
the which the
you know Europeans were colonizing
um the the Americas.
Some of them not all of them were bad
people. Some of them you were good. Some
of them certainly were bad, but like you
it's I just think that you shouldn't uh
categorize it all
>> in one thing unless you absolutely
definitively know.
>> I agree. And I've seen a remarkably low
amount of evidence for the space alien
thing. Like you can go back to, you
know, certain abductions. You know,
obviously, uh, Betty and Barney Hills
saying they're from a binary star system
mapped out looked like Zeta Reticuli,
things like that. They're they're you
can find a decent amount of things like
that, right?
>> But there is just as much. If I wanted
to steelman the argument for future
human time travelers and I wanted to
steal man the angels and demons
argument, you could just as easily steal
man those things as you could space
aliens. So it's all of them feel
somewhat arbitrary and I almost feel
like the more uh worthwhile
philosophical endeavor would be how
would you reconcile all of those things
because maybe the we're talking in these
sort of limited frameworks and it's
false dichotoies, right? Like maybe
maybe angels can fly to different
planets and maybe they can travel
through time.
>> Maybe they're from different planets.
>> Maybe they're from different planets,
>> right? Like um maybe they are
extradimensional. Maybe they're from
different planets. Or maybe maybe
there's also other creations at
different planets in addition to a you
know categorically angels
>> um that are spiritual. I mean who knows?
>> Yeah. I find the modern conversation
around all of this stuff frustrating
because it it feels like on the one hand
it's like it's space aliens and then on
the other hand with Arrow it's like it's
nothing and I think in reality
the people who say it's nothing know
that it's actually in certain cases
they're bad faith actors that know that
it's much deeper than the nothing. So
but they they know it's actually deeper
than than space aliens too. So they they
actually know that there's something
around the consciousness stuff, the fact
that this is all kind of an interface,
there's something deeper going on in
reality. So they can in good faith
people like Sean Kirkpatrick say, "I
have no evidence for extraterrestrials."
Because that's such an
oversimplification.
>> That's right. Well, and if there's no
proof of where it came from, which
planet it came from, then how then he
then you could definitively you could
say, "Well, I I have no evidence of
extraterrestrial."
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. So I think that
>> Yeah. I I just I right now anybody that
says they have all the answers
>> clearly is doesn't.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Anybody speaks with really
high confidence says they're all good or
they're all bad or I know where they're
from.
>> I love the information the books that
people send me. I've gotten some wild.
So I've somebody sent me both volumes of
the Encyclopedia Galactica
>> which is Have you seen this? No.
>> It's very creative. But this person has
written hundreds and hundreds of pages
with graphics and and of um of different
categories of species of aliens and
which planets they're from and
>> it goes in great detail. I'll try to get
you
>> I'd love to check that. Sounds awesome.
>> I mean the level of creativity of that
of that material is off the charts.
>> It's off the charts. It's incred. But
yes, I agree. When when somebody start
starts to speak super definitively and
confidently about alien race taxonomies,
I'm like, I don't know. Where are you
getting this? Right.
>> You know, show me the receipts.
>> Show me the receipts. Yeah, but I'm down
to read that book. That sounds awesome.
If you were to pick anyone in government
to subpoena or get endless time with in
a skiff, you know, secure
compartmentalized information facility
on this specific issue, UFOs, who would
it be?
>> I would say probably um Glenn Gaffne,
who is, you know, former CIA. Um I a lot
of people I talked to say that this is
somebody that we need to talk to. And
then Steve Cantrell who's former Air
Force um I think se senior intelligence
from the Air Force a lot of people
talked to and then the other name that
kept kept coming up um sadly was General
McCastand,
>> right?
>> And and then there's another individual
that that is since passed away.
>> Um and so those are the people that I
would like to talk to.
>> Can you say who the individual who
passed away was?
>> Um I I'm for I'm blanking on the name
right now. I can get that to you.
>> Okay.
>> It's fascinating. It's such a weird uh
as I'm sure you're running into like org
chart like it's like often not the
person who's the most superior in the
particular organization that you're
looking for. It's like the deputy that
knows more than the superior
>> and there are these like weird cutouts
and it I I've never seen anything that
cuts across so many government agencies.
Air Force, Navy, CIA, Office of Naval
Intelligence. It seems like all of these
groups have some NSA, all of these
groups have something to do with this
issue,
>> but it's often these like vital
subcompartments. It's not like from the
top.
>> Yeah.
>> It's so weird. It's almost
>> as if like the aliens are like running
the programs themselves or something. I
don't understand. Look, you know this
better than anybody. The government's
not well organized
>> and stuff leaks and like especially
things that are that broadly
distributed. So that that feels like a
really interesting feature of this whole
thing just yeah
>> the organizational
>> that's why I think that it's probably
organized from the FFRDC
level somewhere because then they can
they can create the program and the
reason for the funding and and then
report up only what they have to report
up to get the funding necessary. So they
create the special access program, they
create a little vital sub compartment
and then they only have to report up a
certain amount of stuff and they're
these subject matter experts. So that's
interesting. So so they're the like
vital core of this whole thing.
>> And honestly from my experience in
government, the higher you go, the the
more broad things are and the less
people know or they act like they know
or nobody nobody really asks the right
questions, especially members of
Congress. Most of the time they'll just
take, you know, you you'll pass bills
that are appropriating billions and
billions of dollars to programs with
just very generic explanations as to
what they do,
>> right?
>> And often it sounds wonderful. I mean,
look at what happened with USA ID. um
you you had billions being spent and it
would it all sounded like rosy very very
nice things and then when you looked
into it it was it was when you looked
into
>> CIA regime change or some
>> you know uh diversity initiative
somewhere or some just sometimes a
nonprofit that was just taking the money
and using it on nonsense
>> paying for transgender comic books in
certain countries
>> just crazy right
>> like what yeah what is that So yeah.
Okay, that's interesting. The broader
you go up in the civilian government,
the less of a handle they probably have
on these things.
>> Yeah. I mean, they certainly would have
the authority if they wanted to to drill
down and get and and to pull that
information out of them, but often times
they're not going to even know what
questions to ask. And that's my
experience. I truly feel like what we're
experiencing right now with the White
House, Steven Miller is now leading up
this investigation. the the lowhanging
fruit was to say, "We know that there's
a bunch of these video files that are
sitting at the Department of War in like
Sipper and all these other because we we
know all these people are leaking them,
so let's just release all of them." And
so the first trunch, that's what you saw
is a bunch of videos from drones from
MQ9 Predator drones where they've cited
something that seems really strange, but
then where do you go from there, right?
it's actually going to be a lot more
sticky and difficult and you'll have to
really roll up your sleeve and you have
to know where to go to ask the right and
what questions to ask, right?
>> And so
>> to the point in which
>> um I was kind of frustrated with the
White House that they that they were
doing this release and weren't working
with the SE, you know, secrets task
force, weren't working through Luna and
myself and Burchetta. And then they they
called and said, you know, hey, can you
be can you say some positive things
about the president's release tomorrow?
I said, I don't even know what you're
releasing. You guys haven't said
anything to us. You haven't included us.
And the response was, well, we're you're
we're absolutely going to be including
you next because we really don't know
exactly where to go next.
>> Right?
>> And when you hear that, when you hear
people at the top saying, "We need your
help knowing where to go look."
that to me that is that's the that's
really what we're experiencing.
>> It's a little disconcerting because we
you know it's a government by buy by and
for the people.
>> Yeah. And it's like they don't even have
a handle on on this stuff which seems
like really important you know like the
the the program
>> the strategy they have I think is a good
one the from if they pull if they
actually will pull it off and what what
will be the game changer is if they say
if the president come out comes out and
says everyone's NDAs related to this
topic are null and void. So that frees
up Aloo Alzando and Chris Melon and all
of these people to be able to say David
Grush and Jake Barber to say whatever
>> they fully want to say. And then and
then it also frees up anybody else who
may have been waiting to be able to come
forward. Um the one the other things
they need to do is they really need to
make make it right to the people that
have already come forward and suffered
the consequences like like Grush, right?
the people that lost their pensions,
they lost their health benefits, that
lost their their um their clearance
level.
>> It'd be great if Grush was in a position
of power because this guy is did all the
work. He compiled hundreds of pages of
documents. He gave it to the in, you
know, intelligence community, inspector
general. They said it was urgent, and
credible. Like, I can't think of anybody
better who just has access. But that I
think that's why he um creates all the
you know there are all these uh kind of
allergic reactions to him right
>> because uh he he he knows a lot and I
think people know he knows a lot
>> and I that's why I begged oversight this
to hire oversight committee to hire him.
I begged anybody in the agencies that
that are investigating this
>> I'd love to see
>> hire him which is why I hired him
because at least
>> at least
>> it's a great hire. It's a good deal for
I think I'd love to see OD and I or the
White House or you know like you know it
would be epic if if you had his
knowledge combined with their ability to
knock down doors. I mean, you're you're
knocking down doors right now, but you
must feel on some level you're like, why
isn't he, you know, why isn't the
president, you know?
>> No, because the truth is David can give
me the information and I can go bang on
the door, but I can't knock it down for
sure. Right.
>> But if he's working with President
Trump, he could go he could go blast the
door open.
>> Right. What What do you think President
Trump knows about UFOs?
Mike, I do believe he's been briefed. I
don't know for sure. I This is what I've
heard that he's been briefed.
There's a funny anecdotal story that
comes with that that I don't know if
it's fiction or not, but it was that
that that Trump was during that briefing
he was told that there are hybrids and
told the narrative that they were that
there's hybrids that potentially live
amongst us and and that Trump's response
was, "You mean like Adam Schiff?"
>> No way. which is which I could totally
believe that he would say something like
that.
>> But
>> yeah, wasn't he briefed on like Nordics
or something like Nordic aliens?
>> Yeah, something like that. And so I mean
I for sure I've been told I was told
that this again this is not definitive.
this is what I've been what I'm
interested in.
>> So he who knows he may but I it it's
clear he's not been briefed to the level
of of David like what or or if he has
been he also may not just trust the
people briefing it.
>> Sure. Yeah. It's it's such a weird
topic. I a good story that encapsulates
the weirdness of this topic and is in
the '9s
Clinton really wanted to be read in.
who's really interested in this whole
thing and that's why, you know, Podesta
later gets really involved. And so he's
trying to figure out what's going on
with UFOs, what's happening. And this
guy Ron Pandalfi, who's at the CIA, uh
he like is helping him, and he gets this
like civilian researcher Bruce Makabe to
brief Clinton. And it's like, wait,
that's the best you can get for briefing
our president on this topic? And
maybe if it's like a brief on this weird
metaphysical thing that's weakly
entangled with reality, that's one
thing. But there's a whole gradation of
possibilities here up until like
literally flying objects that deliver
payloads. And if you're not being
briefed on that and you're the
president, it's like you're not being
briefed on like the next hypersonics
thing that the US has capabilities wise,
that's like insane. And like so this
topic is it's it breaks your brain when
you hear stories you're like that.
You're like what?
>> Right.
>> It makes you feel like there's some
secret society breakaway civilization
like like some of these UFO researchers
like Richard Dolan, you know, uses that
kind of as like a conceptual, you know,
maybe it's this. He's not a high
conviction in it, but it it kind of gets
you into that territory.
>> So where where I'm at right now is that
I think that it's either one of two
things. It's one is that we're at a
place where our military really doesn't
and and even all the way up and down the
system, nobody really even knows what
these glowing orbs are and that like
while we have this false belief that the
government has this abil that we have
these craft that we have this
understanding, we have this false belief
in that it we have way too much
confidence in our federal government and
>> which is you know
>> always a safe bet.
>> Always a safe bet. the so there's that
and and that that but that there is
something mystical out there that we
don't know and certainly obviously
there's things that that we all don't
know right and that being one of them
the other worldview could be that we
that there is a layer that knows what's
really going on but it is but it's this
middle layer
>> and that the information is only going
to metric metriculate up if it's
demanded or or even and on it and then
downward it's It's compartmentalized,
overly compartmentalized. And the
question is, how do you get to that
layer of the onion?
>> And you get into really weird territory
philosophically, too, because you can
say, oh, it starts with the fedally
funded research and development centers.
But then, we were talking about this,
you know, before we started rolling.
It's like the the if there is a feature
around the UFO thing, it's the like
chasing your tail dynamic of anyone
looking into it. And I'm talking anyone.
Even some of the people, you know, in
the movie Age of Disclosure like are
described as like outsider civilian
investigators when like people who watch
UFO shows think that they're like at the
center of the thing. like no one's at
the center of the thing. And then you
get into that, you know, like this guy I
mentioned, Tim Taylor at Aerospace
Corporation, he's saying he's taking
orders from an angel and he's operating
on like a higher mandate and his whole
hierarchy of the stratification of the
government involves uh you know senior
intelligence officials and then I think
it goes you know human alien hybrids,
angels like he has a whole thing that
goes above the I've got to read Tim
Taylor stuff.
>> Check this out. And he said, "Dude,
that's high functioning. He's been
working on NASA missions since the
Challenger where he he he actually talks
about Judith Resnik who died in the
Challenger mission. It really affected
him." But he's he's a known entity at
NASA. He's worked there for a long time.
>> And then he's also at aerospace
corporation, like a very real guy and
then also, you know, clearly had
dealings at the highest levels of
government. He claimed to meet with the
president actually in certain cases and
is showing up in these experiencers
lives too. He showed up in the life of
Chris Bledsoe. He showed up with Charles
Hall who said that he lived with aliens
at Area 51. Um he knows Whitley
Strieber. Uh so it's this very He's
almost like he's operating on some
higher mandate. Like who's who's
ordering him to go, you know, talk to
these experiencers?
>> Yeah, I that's wild. Yeah, I do know
like one of the individuals that that
was brought to me was was highly
credible that that does receive what he
describes as downloads. And this is not
a this is not a weirdo. This is not a
guy living in a van down by the river.
This is a very respected individual in
in our in our nation.
>> Yeah.
>> Um not famous, but just a very respected
uh business leader and and thought
leader.
>> I know who this person is.
>> Yeah. I'm not going to out him, but
yeah, but yeah, he's has some very
interesting experiences where he sort of
channels prophecies
>> and it's it's always hard to say because
it's, you know, some of these things,
>> you know, often feel filtered through
the person and sometimes they can be s
almost seductively adjacent to true
things, but they also feel like how
would you know that sort of thing, you
know, really on the nose in certain
cases. So, um, and he reaches out to me
actually because
>> I'll often cover something with my show
and he'll be like, I I channeled the
exact thing or whatever. I'm like, whoa,
that's kind of trippy.
>> So,
>> he he's been a very I I I think he's a
fantastic person to know.
>> Yeah.
>> And um and I don't doubt him. I don't um
doubt that he he believes that he's
>> I don't doubt his experiences. No. Yeah.
and and I'll keep it high level, but
yeah, he has a very impressive uh
business track record as well. Just has
done some remarkable things.
>> Yeah. You don't operate at the level
that he's operating if you if there's
something off.
>> No, exactly. Well, that's what I mean. I
think a lot of people have this
misconception that the higher you go in
society,
the like less trippy you get. Like it's
not functional to be
>> out there and into metaphysics or
esquetology or any of these things. And
I think it's the opposite. I think often
the higher you go the more like there's
something interesting going on
>> maybe. Yeah. Because you start you start
you stop thinking about you know how am
I going to pay for my boat or how am I
going to like you know
>> your Maslo's hierarchy of needs
>> moves you to a point where you start
thinking of the higher the
>> 100%. Have you ever spent time around
Trump?
>> I have. Uhhuh. Yeah,
>> because I want I want to hear what that
was like because Tucker Carlson was
recently interviewed by the New York
Times and it was one of these clearly
like kind of smug gotcha like New York
Times was trying to like make him look
like a fool or whatever and he was like
it's a I think he described it as like a
supernatural experience being around
Trump and Trump is like
he's a very he's a he's a phenomena of a
person you know he like he he grew up
this you couldn't write this up his
preacher growing up was Norman Vincent
Peele who wrote the power of positive
thinking
>> and if you think about his whole thing
it's like this like kind of like we're
going to be bigger and we're going to be
better you know it's just like and it's
sort of like manifest and it ends up
happening and he's able to just he keeps
going
>> and um so was that your experience did
you
>> I found him to be a very actually a very
hospitable very sweet and warm
individual and then at times the
funniest person you'll ever meet
>> he he Well, especially I mean he's
pretty much the same person on camera or
on a stage.
>> Yeah,
>> pretty much. I think he t takes off the
filter a little bit. Yeah. Where he'll
tell stories like he told um I got to
the time I spent the most time with him
was during one of the days that he was
on trial and it was the day that um
>> that his attorney um Cohen was
testifying against him. And it was so
remarkable. That day was so remarkable
because you had him on the stand admit
that he's stealing money from Donald
Trump and yet he's a credible witness to
uh to the um this I think at the time it
was the housing like that he had
overvalued his properties or whatever.
So uh so he's got to spend a lot of time
with Trump. What was also fascinating is
this this guy one of the wealthiest
people in the world and when he orders
food it's it's just pepperoni pizza
just boxes of pepperoni pizzas
>> and he didn't cuz normally if you're
going to order food for a group of
people you would probably do you know
we'll do a few of this few of that few
of this right complicated a little bit
Trump is not he's he's he kept it simple
>> you know everyone's eating pepperoni
pizza
>> it's hilarious and he I I think I
believe he loves Big Macs and I think
he's a little paranoid and Big Macs are
pre-prepared
>> so that they can't be meddled with.
>> Um, but he's clearly running on some
sort of
>> junk energy that like it it really, you
know, his father, Fred Trump, he
believed that the human heart was like a
battery. So the more you worked out, the
more you lowered the energy in the
battery and Yeah. It's like like Trump's
like eating Big Macs and pepperoni pizza
and he's chilling at Mara Lago and
>> and working all night long.
>> Working all night long. He's sleeping
four hours a night and he's
>> he's he's what in his early 80s now.
>> He's Right. Right.
>> And he's he's still going. He's he's a
remarkable whatever your politics are.
It's like that guy is
>> physical specimen.
>> He's a physical specimen. Yeah. Should
be studied.
Well, he is the UFO.
>> The other thing I found in comical is
the ch we were in like what honestly the
courtroom we were that we were in
reminded me of the TV show Nightcourt.
Like that kind of New York like
everything's old, a little bit dingy,
>> not not exactly nice new furniture. And
Trump commented several times about how
much he loved the chairs in the side
room that we were in. He's And these
were not even nice chairs. He's like, "I
love these chairs. It's so comfortable.
I love he was just commenting about uh
something I thought I it just that
struck me. Right.
>> Yeah. Well, he I mean somebody like that
has got to be operating at such a high
level but you also need that in-person
charisma and so you remember the little
details too in a way that
>> probably just wins the favor of like
everyone. And I'm sure there are tons of
people who criticize him so much from
afar. Yeah.
>> And then they get pulled in by that
handshake and he starts talking and
like, you know, they goo gaga. You know,
I'm sure that happens all the time.
>> Yeah,
>> he does. The no one has more charisma.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Where do you think we go on
uh on UFOs? Like it it feels like look
for as much as we've been talking about
kind of the quicksotic sometimes
cisophian aspects of this whole topic
which feel you know like uh very
frustrating. We've made a lot of
progress and I think you're you're a big
part of that progress. So, I guess I'd
love to hear, you know, maybe some
behind thescenes stories of like what
has led us to today, which we're at
we're at a historic juncture where we're
we're getting releases from the
Department of War. And then what do you
see as like a go forward outlook?
>> I think we would not have been here had
it not been for this like magic moment
where we had
where we had I'll begin with the bravery
of people like David Grush and Lou
Alzando coming forward. um Admiral
Galedet, you know, Dylan Borland, the
list goes on, right? You've had some
really brave people that have sacrificed
their careers to come forward. And then
you've had members of Congress who I I
mean, selfishly, I'll say that it was
not exactly an advice that was given to
me by camp by my campaign adviser. He
said, "Do not talk about this topic.
It's going to kill your political career
because no one this is not something
that's going to advance you. people are
going to smirk about it and and you
won't be taken seriously politically.
>> I think it ended up working and I think
people love you for because you jumped
into this.
>> I hope so. Um but but yeah, there's
people like myself, Tim Burch, I'm going
to say the godfather of the of the
Congress that kind of that you know was
willing to talk about it and then um
obviously leadership of Anapina Luna and
then us just as a team pushing and
pushing any moment that we would get we
would be telling the White House staff,
you know, we would be nagging them about
this and then we us trying to pass the
UAP Disclosure Act language on the
National Defense Authorization Act. um
you know, coming up and failing, but at
least getting that spotlight put on it,
that moved the ball. But then when we
finally got Trump in um and then he he
was, you know, following through on the
disclosure of the JFK files, following
through on the disclosure of MK Ultra
and the Martin Luther King Jr. files,
all of all of these things, the and and
even though it was sticky and messy, the
Epstein files, you know, at the end of
the day, Trump is the disclosure
president and and when he finally, you
know, issued this directed to release
the UFO files, we are in a historic
moment because you you've had presidents
that never wanted to talk about this
that have always kept this secret. And
this president and the fact that you
have a combination of Congress that's
willing to actually roll up their
sleeves and do the work, this is a magic
moment. And so where we go from here, I
think
>> has to do with, you know, this task
force that Stephen Miller has put
together and the fact that Trump
assigned Miller,
>> that's his guy.
>> Exactly.
>> He's the guy who Trump said first when
he first came in assigned him to fix the
border wall situation.
>> And then so, you know, it's like those
are his top priority. That's his top
priority. Now he's assigned to this.
>> That's a big deal. So you got Steven
Miller leading the charge. Um he's a
bulldog. And then you've got a team of
people that fact the fact they're making
the CIA work come to the table. They're
making the Department of Energy um talk
about this that they're putting together
this team. I have I've got, you know,
I'm skeptical, but I've got a little bit
of hope. And then I what I'm trying to
do is trying to hit the private sector,
get them on alert. And then and a lot of
the these letters that I'm sending to
whether it's MITER or Rand or MIT
Lincoln Labs, we're we're working I'm,
you know, basically telegraphing to the
White House, hey, look at what I'm
doing. You guys need to follow up
>> and and follow this investigation.
And you you and you're working kind of
handinhand with Grush on a lot of this
stuff.
>> Yes.
>> Uh
>> and and some others that that are kind
of advisers that are outside adviserss.
>> Any others that you can mention
>> that don't want to be p none of them
want to be public?
>> Okay. Uh what do you know? Because I
think it's it's easy for you know people
in the audience to be skeptical around
reprisals that people faced. Uh
>> I will say I have a I have a nickname
for that group,
>> the Lone Gunman.
>> Yeah, exactly. that are that are my
little team of of adviserss
>> have been very helpful for me.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what so
what have you do you have any insight
into
the kind of push back that people like
David Grush have faced?
>> Yeah. I think that
I got to see a meeting happen between
Grush and um some someone from the O
from OD and I that was a pretty blunt
meeting where he had he was
and and you could tell they were
basically apologizing for the way in
which he was he's been treated over the
years.
>> Um and so I think the the message that
I'm trying to deliver to them is it it's
going to take more than than an apology.
You know, you you guys really need to
you need to correct some of the the
things that have happened.
>> Do you think we have saucers and
hangers? Do you think we have real
physical craft uh sitting in in in
hangers? Do you think we have alien
bodies in uh facilities?
>> I don't have any evidence, but I hope we
do.
>> I would love it if we do. That's what
I'm that's what I'm trying to find,
>> but I don't have any evidence of it.
>> But if you had to guess,
>> if you had to I'm for to the audience.
This is I'm I'm making you engage in
speculation.
If if it's like a yes or no
>> probability, I would say maybe I would
say a 10% chance that we do.
>> 10%. Okay.
>> But worthy of investigation because of
the implications of of what we do and
all the circumstances.
>> It's a game changer. It's it's breakaway
technology. And honestly, if we did have
it again that I go back to the time that
I spent on the tarmac,
>> I think we would we should all be
frustrated that we are not able to share
in this if there is a breakaway
technology that's being hidden.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. Well, uh, Congressman Eric Berles,
this this has been an honor. It's been a
lot of fun. It's really refreshing,
actually, to hear somebody who's just
like, "This is what was told to me. I'm
cataloging it, and I'm going to look for
more evidence, and I'm just going to
follow the trail, and I'm not going to
be dramatic about it. I'm not going to
act all histrionic, attention-seeking,
call myself a star seed, say people are
coming after me." You know, there's a
lot of there's enough of that, trust me.
And that's not to say I don't indulge
some of that myself with people I speak
to, but like I know I think I think what
you have is is is missing. So I
appreciate your uh just kind of hold
candid approach to to the whole topic. I
think that's really needed.
>> Well, and appreciate the the deep dives
that you do. I watch your podcasts. Um I
sometimes have to chunk them because
they're they're long, but I really love
your work. you you're an elite class and
the product that you produce is is is of
the highest caliber and I I look forward
to every episode.
>> I don't know what to say. That means so
much. I appreciate it. Awesome. All
right. Cool.
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