But he said one thing that floored me,
man.
To the pits of my stomach. He said, "But
I remember your glove on a shiny floor."
Three, four of them.
>> Mario, let's let's back off again.
>> I answered all of his questions. And it
was very difficult because I had like a
lot closer reaction or proximity
to what was on the right side of our
vehicle to these to these beings on the
right side of the vehicle. I mean I
literally
lose my heartbeat but um
>> Okay. So he was in control. So how tall
was the tall one?
>> 6.
He's different
than the little guys didn't bother me
like he did.
>> When I realized what I was looking at is
when I really just went
some of those visions are are are
almost indescribable.
>> Really large craft craft.
And when you realize was that
realization, oh my god, aliens. Yeah.
>> Afraid to leave the vehicle. I should
have just stepped down.
>> What happened that night on November 5
was up close and absolute personal.
And uh no matter
whether they ever hear me or not, I live
with that.
Whenever I was 13, I woke up in my
bedroom because my light turned on and I
just flicked right on. I was the only
one in the house besides my mom who was
in bedroom down the hall and she was
asleep, positive. I could hear her
snoring. And then after my light turned
on, my door started opening by itself, I
thought. But actually then I saw a hand
on the door. It had, you know, long
fingers, very thin hand, and I thought I
was having a nightmare. But then I was,
you know, like pinching myself and, you
know, slapping myself and I realized I
am not asleep. And I saw how thin its
arm was and I got freaked out. I was
like shocked. I was very scared. Um, I
was on my futon. I tried to stand up. It
was really hard to do. But whenever I
stood up like it felt like I was pushing
against like a force that was trying to
like hold me down. And then whenever I
saw its face and its body, it was about
my height and I was about 5' n. is
skinny gray, you know, big head, almond
eyes, slit mouth, two little holes on
the nose, and yeah, he started coming
toward me. And I remember thinking, I'm
going to hit him right in the head. And
as soon as I started thinking that, I
heard in my head, "No, you won't." And
it started walking toward me very
slowly. And the closer it got, the more
I couldn't like move. I actually had a
fist and I was pulling it up in the air
trying to come at him. And then I
thought, I'm going to hit him and then
I'm going to elbow him. And he said,
"No, you're not." And it got really
close and it tapped me on the forehead
very slowly and as soon as he did I felt
electrocuted
like I was vibrating like crazy and then
everything went black.
>> This is such a great set.
>> It's a trip, right?
>> Yeah, it is.
>> Would you when you got here? I'm sorry.
I'm going to shut my phone off here.
>> Yeah, mine's in there. I don't have it
with me. I don't want it in here with
me.
Um,
boom. Done.
No more disturbances.
>> It'll have to wait. If the world burns,
it'll just have to burn.
>> Let it burn.
Do you doodle a lot?
>> Uh, sometimes. Yeah. I I It's It's more
more like um you know, like
Mayan figurines and stuff. Oh, yeah. You
know, it just something I do.
>> Did you do that before?
>> Yeah. I mean, before it happened before.
>> Yeah. Before 70 What? 77?
>> No, I really didn't.
>> Sometimes I'll just do a whole page.
Really? Yeah. I'll just do a whole page
and and it doesn't really make any sense
to anybody. Doesn't even make sense to
me. I just
>> have to put these designs in, you know,
and
>> just cathartic.
>> Yeah. Just following stuff. Give me a
sec, Maria. I forgot my notes. I'm going
to grab those.
>> Oh, okay.
find myself doodling sometimes as well.
>> Oh yeah. Got to you, man. Got to.
>> It's fun. There's a tactile sort of
compulsion sometimes that you got to
just
>> Yeah.
>> I do it while I'm editing and I'm
waiting for something to render. I'll
just mindlessly doodle.
>> Um
>> All right. You ready to get started?
>> Yeah. I guess when I think about it, I
don't do as well as I do, but I don't
think about it. So, I'll just leave that
over right now.
>> You can leave wherever you want. You can
doodle. We can spend this whole time
doodling.
>> Wow.
>> Um, ladies and gentlemen, today I'm
joined by former USAF uh security
responder. Uh, your position exactly was
a security was police, right?
>> Yeah, security police.
>> Security police. Uh, folks, this is
Mario Woods. Now, he's been featured on
multiple podcasts. His story's been
talked about. It's an incredible,
incredible story about not only his
encounter,
one of the most incredible encounters
I've ever come across um at Ellsworth
Air Force Base in 1977.
>> Correct.
>> And uh it's I mean for so many reasons,
Mario, you're just you're a wealth of
knowledge. You're someone with the
sharpest memory and recall that I've
ever spoken to. We spent some time at
dinner last night.
>> Yeah.
>> And you're rattling off dates and
numbers. Like I have I've got a notepad
here just to make sure that I say the
right thing. But your memory is
incredible. And we're going to get into
that because there's also a whole sort
of um rigorous discipline around someone
working around these sensitive nuclear
sites that you have to abide by the uh
the personal reliability program
>> PRP which is you know a whole thing that
u folks like yourself have to subject
themselves to in order to be mentally
stable enough
>> to work around these things which makes
you sir in my opinion one of the most
credible witnesses is to the UFO contact
phenomenon that I've ever had the honor
of speaking to. So, thank you for
joining me today.
>> Thank you. It's an absolute honor to be
here. I love your set. I just can't
believe the work you've done and it all
means such good things, you know,
really. We need to know and we need to
set up for these things just like what
you've done. I just it's incredible just
to see what you've done here.
>> I appreciate it
>> and having me.
>> Thank you. Mark, you mind pulling your
chair in just a little bit? I just want
to get you close to the microphone. And
you got such a lovely voice.
>> Well,
>> don't don't be shy. You got a if all
else fails, you got a disc jockey
somewhere within you in a previous life,
I think, or something.
>> I don't know.
>> You got a really good voice for uh
>> for radio, unlike myself. I've got a
face for radio, but
>> you do have a voice.
>> Yeah. Well, it comes naturally to you,
sir.
>> So, I do want to get into obviously what
happened alongside is it um Michael
Johnson? Psycho Johnson. Correct.
>> On that event, that faithful night in
November, November 18th, 1977. But prior
to that, I want to take you back to your
childhood. And I want to start there. I
want to see if there's anything to glean
from, you know, your childhood. Do you
remember having vivid encounters or
strange dreams or just occurrences not
only with you but with your direct
family members as a child? What's
something that stands out?
>> Uh well 1961 uh my mother was taking me
to school at DQeen Elementary in Port
Arthur, Texas and my sister was in the
back seat. She was four. Uh I was six.
Uh I think just turned six. I think as
the school year starts, you know, like
in August, I turned 6 in September. And
um
anyway, as we approached the school uh
on DeQ Boulevard, which is still there
today, I've been back and looked at it
and just sat there in awe from what I
saw that morning. And
we were about the fifth car back in line
and as as to the drop off point, you
know, just a young kid, not thinking
anything, just doing my thing, going to
first grade. And uh all of a sudden, my
mother in the driver's seat, of course,
she goes, "Look, Anthony, there's flying
saucers."
Just as we were talking, just plain as
day. And I went, "Where?" I remember him
saying that, "Where?" And I leaned
forward and I grabbed the the dashboard
cuz back then, you know, we didn't have
seat belts like there are today. And we
were in I think we're in an Impalis
station wagon.
>> Oh, plenty of playing room back there.
>> Yeah. My sister's in the back seat and
uh behind my mom
and she said right there, look, she
looked pointed to her left. So I leaned
over toward where she was and as I did,
I could see three craft and they were
only maybe 50 ft, 75 max in the air. And
they were directly over this church that
is now gone. And it had three steeples
over the, you know, below these craft.
And they were the most beautiful white
silver saucers with a dome on top and a
dome on bottom and a light going around
the center outermost rim of it.
>> Like a glass dome.
>> No, no, no. Uh same color, white,
silver.
>> Okay.
>> As the rest of the craft. The only color
difference was were these lights that
went around them. And they were all in
they were synchronous on all three
craft. And I was just like, "Wow." I
mean, I don't even have words for what
we were seeing basically. And my mom,
she popped the door open. And when she
did, I went behind her and my sister,
she did say in the backseat, she goes,
"Mom, I'm scared." My mother said,
quote, she goes, "Don't worry, honey.
They're not here to hurt you."
>> Wow.
>> Plain as day. I'll never forget that
statement. My mother's been passed many
years and uh never forgotten that. And
so when she got out, I just went across
the seat right behind her and grabbed
her by the hand and my sister opened or
she opened my sister's door and she got
out and she grabbed my mom by the hand.
But we were just one of many cuz
everybody were exiting their vehicles.
They were all in line and I don't know
exactly how many cars there were. I just
do know that we were about fourth or
fifth back in the line cuz I did I could
count then. And additionally, the school
was one of those buildings that was a
single school from elementary or
kindergarten all the way up through 12th
grade. So the upper classman, of course,
their school, their classes were upper
level. But as I looked on the
playground, which was which was blocked
off, it was a whole playground directly
across from DeQ Elementary was still
there. Uh they had monkey bars and all
that kind of stuff, but everybody met
there in the morning. It was just full
of kids
and
every eye and every hand and every
finger was pointing upward looking at
these things and you and from where I
was I was probably a hundred yards away
from see from where they were located
and the school was probably 70 yards. So
that difference you I'm just trying to
equate the distance because I have gone
back and looked at it and try to stand
right where our car was. I tried to
really put cuz those houses are all
still there. The sidewalks are all still
there. Everything was still there. So,
um there were people pointing out the
windows cuz there was no AC back that
time. And the windows were open, the
wooden frame windows, and people were
pointing out of them. And uh we just
stood there staring at them, you know,
45 seconds, minute, minute and a half.
And then all of a sudden
they just boom, straight up out of
sight, clear blue sky. If there had been
clouds that have punched holes in them
cuz they were just gone and they were
gone in under a second.
>> They didn't disappear. They moved.
>> They went straight up.
>> Instantly.
>> Instantly.
>> How fast would you
How fast is the fastest thing we have
that can leave the atmosphere today? A
rock, you know, say our best rocket. It
takes what, a minute or something? Two
minutes. They were gone in seconds. They
were literally
>> out of our atmosphere in a second if
that.
>> They were so fast. It was incredible.
And there was nothing as I know
aeronautics now. There was nothing like
a wind blast,
>> no rotor washer,
>> anything like that. It was just and just
gone instantaneous just like loose.
>> Do you remember
a reaction to that? my reaction
>> or like a general
>> it's like holy smoke. You know, as a
kid,
>> do you hear people saying, "Whoa, my
god." And like these type of things,
>> my mother did. But the strangest thing
about that whole incident and all those
people that saw it in school, nobody
said a word the entire day about the
whole thing. Any teachers? Nobody said a
word about it. Just went on like nothing
happened. It was like it was forgotten
about.
>> Why do you think that is?
>> I have no idea. Do you think it was the
technology or the being somehow or was
it just the time and the taboo
>> cuz you hear that a lot with people that
are just like, "Yeah, we didn't talk
about it. It's just, you know, one
brought up."
>> It may be something that they can do
over a broad area below them, people
that are seeing them or something. And
what what that's for, I have no idea why
they would do that.
>> But it it seemed it didn't cause a
calamity.
>> People didn't run for their cars and,
you know, let's go get, you know,
whatever
>> and and haul. Nobody left. Everybody
just went back to what they were doing.
Kids went back to playing
>> on the playground. I went up, my mother,
I got back in the car, you know, my
sister did and we pulled up and she let
me out and she went on, you know, home
>> and I went in school and, you know, and
nobody said anything about it the whole
whole day and and I've been back to Port
Arthur in the museum. There's a museum
there. Uh,
it's right down there next to the port
and I was working for a shipping company
out of Norway then. So, that's how I
ended up going back there several times.
And uh Janice Joplain, she was a
renowned artist there. It was from that
area. I'm familiar of Janice Joplin.
Yeah.
>> And her Volkswagens and there are her
Porsche really or Claring Gia I think is
what it is. It's inside that museum.
>> But I went through all these archives
and all these newspaper clippings and
all this back to that time in 1961 and I
couldn't find anything. And I have
searched and searched. I've sent out
search messages to people, you know,
that are that look for things, you know,
like Michael Johnson, you know, I've got
friends that are helping me search for
him still after all these years. But
there was nothing written that I ever
found.
>> Do you remember the month?
>> Uh, well, yeah. I'm pretty certain that
it was
>> like a
>> right after school started like in
August.
>> Okay. September. A August. September
around there.
>> Yeah. August and September.
>> Call to action for the audience
listening. Port Arthur 1961. August.
September. Do your thing, internet. You
know, maybe we can collectively find
something out here.
>> It's got to be written about because
that wasn't the only time that things
were seen there. have been told.
>> Usually there's always
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Um we had Preston Dennit here not
too long ago. He's a researcher as well.
>> Lovely man. And he sent out um a
challenge to his audience and he goes,
"I challenge you to name me the smallest
town that you can find on the map of the
United States and I will find a sighting
there." And he did. He's like batting a
hundred. No way.
>> On the tiniest towns. Yeah. So you'd be
surprised.
>> Um
>> Wow. So, about your mother, that
comment,
I mean,
>> I'm not here to hurt you. Yeah.
>> In retrospect, what do you make of that?
>> Well, she was from um Rocky Mountain,
North Carolina, and her and her sister
Esther, who's now passed. Um when they
were little girls, they saw, you know,
they were always in the woods. I mean,
they, you know, they had uh what, five
sisters and four brothers in the same
family. So, they were always out in the
fields. is not like today's teenagers
and kids, you know. Um they'd seen
things at night on the front porch of
their house and question them and they
and then and she said, you know, these
weren't they weren't aircraft. They
weren't airplanes, but they would just
be there and and and just vanish
literally just
just take off so fast that it was
indescribable.
>> When your mother was a child,
>> when my mother was a child,
>> pre-940, pre-1930, so we're not talking
satellites here or anything. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Right.
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>> And even when uh I remember you just
triggered a memory there when Sputnik
was launched, when Russia launched
Sputnik, we were out in our front yard
and on Janelle Street in Tampa, Florida,
509 Janelle Place. Never forget it. Love
that house. And uh we saw Sputnik going
over and then I think WTVT channel 13,
they said that you could see the
satellite pass overhead if you you know,
it's like 9 or 10:00 at night or
something. And so my mom let us stay up.
We could go outside and see it. And my
dad was there. And uh but he was a
merchant seam. He was usually at sea,
but he happened to be home this time.
And uh we stood out on the front porch.
You know, there's no ambient light back
then. I think there was a street light
at the way end of the corner, that kind
of thing. And that was it. My mom said
um something to the effect. She goes,
she sees it. She goes, "Well," she goes,
"that thing, it'll take a long time for
that to come back around." And she goes,
"That's so slow compared to other things
that we've se that I've seen in the sky
at night."
>> She said that?
>> Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Okay. So, there clearly Mario, there's
clearly a history
>> with your mother.
>> It blow. But my dad's it was even
different. But cuz he was from Baka,
Honduras and
>> and being at sea.
>> Yeah. He's been going to sea since he
was freaking 12 years old or something,
you know? I mean,
>> one of those places where
>> if you see anything, you know,
>> it's not us, right? Like when you're in
the middle of the ocean or whatever.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> There's nothing flying, hovering in the
middle of the ocean, you need a battery,
you need a, you know, you're not getting
anywhere
>> or entering the ocean or coming out of
the ocean and out of the atmosphere.
Yeah.
>> And he was never alone anytime he ever
told me about those things. And you
know, honestly, I really in d in my
early teenage years, I never really paid
much attention to him, you know, talking
about some of the things they would see
under sea and that kind of thing under
the water, you know, while he was on a
trip. Cuz this one time he's gone like,
uh, he was gone a year, uh, really 13
months. And he would he would, you know,
he would tell me about all these things
that, you know, they'd see in the sky
or, you know, under the water, these,
you know, great points of light, he
called them. He didn't say what they
were. He never said there was an object
or a craft of any shape or design. He
said, "But there are things that we
don't know about and they've always been
here." And that's what that was his
wording exactly. And he he died real
young. But Wow.
>> Um Yeah. And then u when he was growing
up as a boy, uh he told me that him and
his brothers and his cousins were
playing literally in the jungle and
there's Mayan ruins everywhere. It's you
know, just not one particular area.
There's Yeah. in in this part of Banaka,
Honduras. There's so many and I don't
even think it's called Banaka anymore.
It's I don't know if it's Roitan or I'm
really not sure. I've never been there.
So, um he said, "But they were all
playing out in the jungle." You know, we
say the woods, they say the jungle
because it really is a jungle down
there.
>> And they saw this tall red-headed guy
with long red hair, super white skin,
and he wasn't walking. He was floating
through the through this jungle through
the jungle and they all hid behind these
these items to watch him and he stopped
and he turned around and looked back
toward them
>> and then they freaked out and took off
running. They were maybe 30 ft from him
or something, but he made no noise and
he and he had on robes. He didn't have
on regular clothes. He had on robes
>> and I just took that and threw it. I
just looked at my dad and I said,
"Okay."
>> Yeah. What are you going to do with
that?
>> Nothing. Nothing. I wish I'd have paid
more attention to him, you know. Really?
>> There's probably probably a reason
though, you know,
you ignored that stuff so much until you
couldn't ignore it. You know, now
looking back on it, you might you might
kick yourself and say, "Oh, I should
have listened." But at the same time,
you don't have a history with this
stuff. And that's what makes it so
fascinating that you had these
sightings. It's not like you were
chasing UFOs when this happened to you,
>> but UFOs seem to be chasing you.
>> Yeah. I don't know. I I do know that
when I went to the missile field, I
first of all, when I first got my
assignment out of Lackland Air Force
Base after basic training in Airbase
Ground Defense and all the other things
that we go through, when I when I saw
South Dakota,
I thought, where in the hell is Elorth
Air Force Base? So, you know, it's a
rapid city. And then, you know, I kind
of put the two together and looked on
the map and um knew Mount Rushmore was
there, so I'd have to see that. But
my first week and a half in the missile
field out there when I saw those stars
at night on out in the middle of those
prairies cuz this is all buffalo running
territory, you know, and there's no
ambient light. There's no there's no
towns. There's nothing.
There were things to there were things
that you could see moving in the sky.
Now, I don't know what they I don't know
there were satellites or what they were,
but I just had a strange feeling back
then before any of this ever happened.
You know what happened in on November 5?
I just knew something there was a
correlation between nuclear
rockets and and these visitors. I just
knew there was there's a connection
between them. I don't know what they're
I don't know why they're looking at this
stuff and
and these sites but it's it's all
Malstrom
May not Ellsworth which is you know was
um decommissioned I think in I think in
' 91 when the missile field was
decommissioned but the aircraft the air
uh aircraft side of it still active of
course uh and I did mention my not so
those are the three you know ICBM sites
that are still active today. And I just
never I never could understand why they
did away with Ellsworth, which kind of
bothered me a little bit.
>> Might have been that might have been a
>> I don't know
>> precursor.
>> But there was there was more than just
my sighting there that that did occur.
And and I think the the bad part about
about it is
it was before a time the Air Force or
really the Army, the Navy, the Coast
Guard, anybody really had a good handle
on what was going on because these
things are being seen and have been seen
and you know since before Robert Sales's
time. I mean really and over Los Alamos
and Sandia and then I've been to both of
those facilities. Oakidge Y12, K25,
Pantex. I mean there's just
>> as as a security police officer.
>> Yeah. Well, in in a security uh
inspector capacity with Department of
Energy, but as a security policeman in
the Air Force. Yes.
>> You were stationed at those or were you
just
>> just at Air Force bases? I'm just saying
overall in general.
>> But you've been to all these places.
You've been to, you told me yesterday at
dinner you were likely in Los Alamos at
the same time Bob Lazar was.
>> I I have a strange feeling now. I was I
was at the Sierra 450 area and there was
a scientist there that they kind of put
me with. I I wouldn't know if you call
it a bodyguard or something like that,
but I was assigned to him and his last
name was Bishop. And uh I was in a
control room when an element was was or
a test burst was being conducted. And of
course, we had to, you know, we had to
set up a two-mile uh
>> entry control area. Yeah. Two mile
>> Yeah. two miles away. I mean, for
radiation purposes and that type of
thing. Yeah. I mean, these areas are
that vast.
>> And you know, I thought I I thought it
was really cool because um
besides being in that control room
similar to this right here when that
happened. Um but being out in the 450
area, again, it's so vast. I found
pieces of pottery, beautiful pieces of
of Indian pottery. And you know, and
there's the caves that that the Indians
could dig into the into the rock face. I
mean, you could with a spoon, you could
dig a condominium as big as you and as
vast as you wanted. And they did that.
So, um, I was picking up all this
pottery and then come to find out, you
know, cuz we have geiger counters in our
vehicles and it was all radioactive. So,
I had to get rid of a sack of this
stuff. I thought I'd bring this home,
show this off, you know, and
so I'm not.
So anyway,
>> wow. Um, so you've Yeah, you've clearly
frequented a lot of of the most
secretive
I mean, highly securized sort of
compartmentalized facilities in the
United States. Like that was your job.
>> Yeah, I had a great time
>> to do that. You were armed as well.
>> Oh, absolutely.
Uh well, we carry different weapons for
different uh areas, you know, like in
inside of a laboratory area, you
wouldn't want to carry an M16 or an M4
or an MP5 silence, but you know, because
there's things that if you did engage an
adversary, you don't want to
>> alert everyone.
>> Say, well, no, no, you don't want
ricochets bouncing all over the place,
and you don't want particular, you know,
in a place like that, it would a shotgun
would be better,
>> you know, if you had to engage close
range. Yeah. If you had to engage, you
you you don't really want to fire a
weapon like that.
>> Did you ever have to engage?
>> No. No.
>> Thank goodness.
>> Yeah. Thank goodness. Absolutely.
>> Yeah. But you were ready.
>> You had the training.
>> Yeah.
>> How many times a year would you train?
>> Uh well, you qualify twice a year. Twice
a year. Every six months. And then of
course they do give you rounds to go out
and shoot on your own. I mean, which is
substantial. And really guys that didn't
want to do it, they give you theirs. So
you'd be out there at a five or 6
thousand round capacity to just
>> Oh my god. to just melt some barrels
down, you know, just have some real good
fun. I think Bob Lazar, he likes
automatic weapons, I think. So,
>> I think I think he does, too. He likes
anything that goes boom.
>> Yeah, absolutely. So, there's nothing
wrong with that. I don't hunt. All I do
is I just target practice.
>> You go to the range still?
>> Yeah, I do a lot of tactical stuff
still.
>> What's your favorite gun?
>> M4 that I built and a wheel gun. A 586
Smith and Wesson.
>> Whoa.
>> Yeah. Back from 83.
>> Wow.
>> What kind of What kind of rounds does
those have?
>> 357 Magnum.
>> Okay. Big rounds.
>> You can shoot 38 to it also. Okay.
>> Which is cheaper than 357 Magnums,
>> right?
>> Yeah. And of course 5.56, you know, I'm
M4. And
>> I have some specialty shotguns also,
semis that I really like to shoot. But
it's very difficult to find a range that
you can go and utilize the shotgun on.
>> I see.
>> Because it tears down all the structure
and everything. And indoor ranges, they
just get really upset. Yeah. You can
control that. I mean, you can control
it, but they don't want to listen. Not
everybody's disciplined with a firearm.
They just want to hear a big bang and
see what they can tear up. Yeah.
Unfortunately,
>> yeah, I've only been to a few myself in
my lifetime because, you know, obviously
in Canada, we got a lot of restrictions
on these things. Um, and I I don't own
any guns myself, but I've I've uh had
some friends down in Texas.
>> And they were like, "You got to we got
to get this Canadian, you know, to shoot
some guns." And I was like, "All right."
And they started me off with a 50 cal.
>> No way.
>> My soul left my body when I shot that
thing. It was stunning. And um felt
incred incredibly uh terrifying
>> and and the target they put they they
put tannerite on the was it is that is
that it's called tannerite right
>> on the target without telling me
>> and so I'm shooting this thing and
there's things exploding and I'm uh yeah
it was a big prank on me but um
>> you ever come down southeast Georgia way
I'll hit you on indoor range and you can
we we'll do you right you have your
protection protection and you won't be
overpowered by a fire.
>> Okay. All right. I'll take you up on it.
>> Um, all right. So, take us into Was it
the night before
or was it the same? Was it because you
had a shift the night before November
18th?
>> No, I just came to the field that day.
>> You just came to the field that day.
Okay.
>> And we work 12our 12-hour shifts.
>> Yeah.
>> And our relief usually takes place two
um two flights a day.
>> You do six to six.
>> That's correct.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. two flights of security police
officers um which would be 12 total, six
at each. Um we uh or six on each shift.
We we do um two flights at a time coming
out on a bus or by helicopter depending
upon the weather. Um was buses most of
the times the blue bluebird buses we
tended windows
>> and perform our relief and then that
shift getting off they head out on the
bus and we take over of course. So it's,
you know, there's continuity is never
broken. It's always there or it's always
manned. And uh so then you know the
shift that you're working by what the
the roster says before you ever leave
the uh in your debrief that you get when
you're before you leave out to the
field. So once we got to the field, I I
was on the 600 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. shift
as was Michael Johnson. And he was
working vacation relief for my normal
partner. Okay. who went to North
Carolina to get married. Steve Welsh.
Good guy. Been trying to find him, too,
but I haven't had any luck finding him.
So, maybe.
>> You think he's happy he didn't show up
that night or disappointed?
>> I I really don't know. I didn't get a
chance to see him again after that was
over. They never sent me back to
November control.
>> No. Yeah, I heard I heard about that as
well.
>> Yeah. So, we um performed our relief and
I was young and energetic and playing
table tennis and and always hitting a
tennis ball. I had a we had a offsite
garage set. It was on site, but it was
not connected to the main launch control
facility. And I put plywood up on the
walls and put tape squares in it so I
could just get out there and had a
center line for the nets. I just I just
love tennis. And I just get out there in
that garage for hours and just slam that
tennis ball and you know, and it helped
me in tournaments and stuff when I
played a lot. So, but um so I we elected
to I elected to do that and so I didn't
go to sleep and uh we came on duty at 6
p.m. and did our normal thing and
sitting around reading books and so
forth and the other three guys that we
were leave they you know went on to
their room 10 or 11:00 that night or so
and
uh it was kind of it was kind of cool
because at about I say about 910 9:15 is
when I walked outside to smoke a
cigarette and then TV's on three
channels in which we had we could view
with I helped set the antenna on the
back of the building and uh
when I saw to smoke a cigarette. And I
looked to my east and it was between 9
and 13° and I just see this large light
and I went and it was 30 35 degrees up
off the horizon. I went, "What was
that?" What color was it? Hard to
describe, but it was it wasn't bright
white and it wasn't uh dull white. It
was just in the middle of that
somewhere. Is this a color? I'm color
blind, but is the color I don't know,
maybe like your walls in here or
something like that, but yet bright and
full. It wasn't there wasn't any gaps in
the in the in looking at it. Wasn't, you
know, like a dark spot or a brighter
spot or anything like it. Just one color
and it just just looked so odd. And I
went, what is that? I said I thought for
a minute. And I said, "It's got to be
based on the size of it." Because you're
looking at stars in the background and
overhead and it's you you can reach up
and grab a star out of the Milky Way. It
just looks that way. It's so clear. And
we were what about 8 miles north of
Newell, South Dakota on Highway 79. And
then Belfoo is to the north and to the
west, I think 29 miles. And then Sturgis
is south of us 30 30 miles. So there's
nothing there. We were the brightest
thing on that whole prairie area, our
launch control facility, which uh had
between 12 and 14 uh twoft light cans on
it, security perimeter lights. And of
course, I think our fence line is either
eight or 10 ft with barb wire turned on
the outside.
>> First of all, I got to stop you. Your
recall is insane, Mario. You're you're
rattling off these numbers like you
worked there yesterday.
>> This is crazy. I don't know if anybody
really appreciates to what extent you're
getting us a detailed picture of what
happened. This is remarkable, man. It
just it's just there.
>> Oh, it's unbelievable.
>> It's uh
>> So, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt
you, but I thought I had to just remind
the audience of what they're what it is
they're listening to, and I I challenge
them to talk to me about an event that
happened 40 years ago.
>> Um, and see what they come up with 50
years ago.
>> So, I I uh I could probably I could run
20 miles, you know, with a backpack on
on an M16 back then and smoke a pack of
cigarettes. It didn't It just didn't
bother me. I was just in that good of
shape. And I'm sorry to say that I did
smoke back then, but I did. And I'm I'm
looking to the east and I see this dag
on light and it just looks so out of
place and so odd. And the size of it was
what really got my attention. Not just
the light in the sky. Again, it was
couldn't have been the moon. I think
there's there's one scientist who looked
at that, you know, and said, "No, it
wasn't the moon. It wasn't Venus.
I can't remember his name. Also,
he's got a funny first name, but I'll
I'll think of it." And uh so I just lit
up a cigarette and didn't think no more
about it. And you know it just drew my
curiosity
and I what the hell is that? What what
is that exactly?
And I thought B-52 bombers and I knew it
wasn't helicopters. Now I think we have
I'm not sure the type of helicopters we
have. They weren't super Blackhawks.
They were something else. Um
I didn't mean to do that.
Um
but usually there was it was always the
notification of a trip coming from the
main base to your location
>> on Okay. It's incoming. You think?
>> Yeah. There was there was always
communication if that were to happen.
>> You're seeing like the headlights of the
craft is what you're thinking.
>> Yeah. They just don't send helicopters
out and they just land at November
control or Kilo or Echo or Mike. They
just don't do that. They always have a
trip planned and they notify wherever
that's going before it gets there. you
know, because we're heavily armed and
we're looking at all areas in in the
sky, perimeter, everything. So,
I get this wildrained idea. I said,
"Well, it it I couldn't tell if it was
stationary or if it was coming to me. I
didn't hear anything." And that's all I
could see was that thing just literally
hanging in the sky.
So I said
to myself when we used to when I used to
go to sea with my dad once in a while in
the summers
ships passing you know in channels or
out at sea uh international waters they
would sometimes flip lights at each
other if they if there was a
communication problem you know or
something one was Russian one was Korean
or Filipino whatever they were they
would flip lights at each other so I
thought I'll go in there and flip the
lights on and off of this thing and
you're kind of taught that also in
security police school for uh
identification purposes, for aircraft
identification purposes and that kind of
thing and how to communicate with them
basically
>> like Morse are using
>> similar you know like a like a three
blit type sequence or something and
they'll like knowledge back of you know
that they're seeing you and you're
seeing them. So you know
>> like flipping high beams off the same
thing. Same thing. So I went inside and
Bill Hollowman, he was a staff sergeant,
great guy from North Carolina. He was on
the phone with his wife and she was in
Rapid City and I said, "Hey Bill," I
said, and we're good friends. I said,
"Man, you got to come see this thing." I
said, "There's a light out here." And I
said, "I'm going to flip the several
lights at it if you don't mind." And he
just looked up at me and just he just
did that. Just wave me off, you know? He
said, "No, whatever." And the switch was
literally on the wall just like that.
>> And I just walked up there behind him.
Now, mind you, the entrance to the
capsule crew where the officers are
downstairs. That's what his position is
directly in front of that door where his
office is set up and he dispatches us.
They dispatch and tell all alarm
situations to him. He even relays to us.
And we we already have our weapons. We
got our code tables and all that stuff.
But anyway, getting back to this, I just
walked up and just flipped the lights
off and on. Just blip blip blip blip
blip blip. Just like that. Walked
outside about 20 ft away from the door.
I've been right to that very spot again
and looked to my east and it was about
10 or 15 seconds later. The damn thing
went blip blip blip. Flipped off,
flipped on, but off on and back on. And
I went, "Wow, that's cool. It's got to
be B-52 bombers, but still no noise, not
coming any closer, not going north, not
going south." So, how how crazy is that?
How does that just It just blew my mind
up. I said, "What kind of aircraft is
that? Is it a helicopter hovering?"
Still couldn't hear it. And out there,
even if it was 6 or 8 miles away, 10
miles away, you'd hear a chopper. I
mean, it's total silent out there.
And uh so I shook my head and I walked
back in. I did the same thing. Came back
outside. I even told a bit of home
again. I said, "Man, I flipped the
lights out. It flipped the lights back
at me." He just looked up at me like I
was an absolute fool.
>> Yeah.
>> Went back out there again and it did it
again. So now I got to I got to wake up.
Somebody somebody got to come see this.
>> So my partner Michael Johnson and we
hadn't really said that much to each
other. I met him at the SEATU building
which are which is our assembly facility
where all the security policemen going
out in the field that day.
>> I see. That was the first time you met
him.
>> Uh yeah. Yeah. That was the first time I
met him. And I think he was from the 66
area which is down by the Badlands which
would be east of Rapid City. And where
we were located was to the west and to
the north almost by the Wyoming border
and it was very close to the Wyoming
border. And uh so I went and I said,
"Hey, Michael." I said, "Uh, come out
here. I want you to check something out,
man. I I I see some lights out or light
out here. I want you to see what it is.
See what you think about it." and he was
kind of hesitant, you know, real nice,
real light-skinned black guy. He was
from Chicago, I from Chicago, Illinois.
And he was a single guy, lived on base
and his parents, that was his permanent
home address was in some part of
Chicago. So I finally wrangled him to
come outside and I said, "All right, you
see that right there?" And he goes, he
just nodded his head. Yeah. Yeah. I
said, "Hold on." I ran back inside, left
him standing there again about 20 ft
from the door. I flipped the lights off
and on, off and on, off and on. run back
out there again and I just sit there and
watch it and it did it again. So it it
did it that time and I said, "Did you
see that?" And he goes, "Yeah." He goes,
"I don't know, man. Whatever." And he
said that to me a couple times that
night. Whatever. I don't know if he
didn't want to just acknowledge it or he
didn't have any curiosity in him or
what. I really don't know.
>> Or he's freaked out by it.
>> He didn't have any excitement at all,
though. it just it just didn't didn't
register with him, you know, on his on
his spidey skills or whatever, you know,
senses. And uh so I said, "Let's do it
again." And he just kind of I remember
him looking down and it was quite cold.
It was like 9 to 13 degrees that night.
It was ice on the ground.
So I ran back in. I got my long drones
on, um fatigues and all that stuff on.
So I ran back in and did it again. Come
back outside. This would be the third
time or be the fourth time. Flipped the
lights off, flipped the lights on. Same
thing. Came back out and it was about 15
20 seconds. It went off, went on, went
off, and that was it. Just stayed off.
I said, well, I said, and I told Michael
Johnson, I said, I guess that's the end
of the end of the show or something. I
don't know. And he didn't say anything
about it. I said, what do you think that
is, man? And I said, "You think he just
went the other way or or what?" He goes,
"He just really he just shrugged his
shoulders off. He didn't really Yeah. He
was just unin interested." So
>> we go back in, sit back down, and I just
kept thinking, you know, what was that?
And the guys that were off duty, they
had already gone off to, I guess, to bed
or something because they get up early
and have breakfast.
So, I grabbed a book or something and
started reading a book or cuz you know
it's hard to get people to to uh play
pingpong with you or sometimes we played
hearts and stuff like that when we get
everybody together. But Bill Hollowman's
still on the phone. They've been on the
phone for two hours at least. I don't
know. You know how that happens. And uh
of course the TV went off at 12:00. Then
that's when you get that really crazy
signal at the end of the night and had
that broadcast signal. Then it, you
know, it had that high pitch uh signal
when it ended, you know, because we only
had three channels.
And I guess it was about um
a few minutes after 12 12:15 or so. 12
12:05, 12:15, all of a sudden I heard
the alarm phone in the flight security
controller's office where Bill Hollowman
was. I heard it go off and it makes a
noise. And I'm going to do this
like that. And it's really loud. You can
hear it all the way out into the in the
kitchen in the day room area. Sure.
>> And there there's a reason for that.
>> And uh so I hear Belie snatches it off
cuz it rings until you take it off the
hook, right? And and I just as I'm
walking in the vegetable and I'm
entering his office, I hear him say,
"Sit for November 5." And uh and none of
this is classified, by the way. I want
everybody to know that none of this that
I'm that I'm talking about is classified
whatsoever in any part. none of it. Um,
so I hear him I hear him say, "Yes, sir.
Sit 465 sit four November 5."
And so went in there, Michael Johnson
comes in and Michael Johnson didn't know
his way around. Of course, he would be
the driver. He outranked me by two
months. We were both senior airmen at
the time, 23 years of age. I was.
And got our weapons, got our code tables
and everything that we had to have. Had
our diddy bags. That's your hawk bag, we
call it, and this got all your stuff in
it in case you have to spend the night
out there on the
>> rock sack or
>> Yeah, it's it's similar to that. We we
call it u it's it's got everything in
it. You know, like I said, in case you
have to literally spend the night a few
nights on that missile site until a
camper alert team gets there until Hayes
can come and solve the problem if if you
can't get a reset on what's going on out
there on alarms because it has to be
back to
>> uh non alarm status is the right word.
So got our got our briefing and
everything and and uh loaded up the
vehicle,
exited the gate, went out to the dirt
road. All these are clay roads that that
connect these sites there are highways
and u turn left at the end of the the
end of our road. Next intersection turn
left and it was that's about 4 and a
half miles from that intersection up to
Highway 79.
And uh the strangest thing is that the
road kind of goes down and then it goes
up toward the highway bed. I I guess
during the winter time, you know, when
you have uh of snow and ice and
everything, so it can run off of it. And
that's why they they build the highways
up. And they're very smart people about
managing that during the winter time.
You know, all the power lines are
underground, all that kind of stuff. And
that's pretty smart. And I just happened
to be sitting when I was sitting in a
passenger seat. I just turned and looked
over my right shoulder at about the 4:00
position and we're in an F-150 Ford
pickup truck. That was our response
vehicle with two blue bubbles on top. US
Air Force Security Police on the side
and u weapons rack in in behind us and
you know so it was a single cab uh Ford
pickup truck.
>> Yeah.
>> And all of them were they were all the
same had western mirrors on it. Um, and
as I looked over at about the 4:00
position, I see this pulsating glow like
this
miles away
to at November at the November 5 area. I
mean, that's as the crow flies. That's
where November 5 was.
>> Same direction where you saw the craft
initially.
>> Uh, or the light. No, opposite
completely opposite. Yeah, we saw it
east of the right November control
>> and now November 5 is back in that
direction. So this went was here to the
east and then it was there November 5th.
>> Same color.
>> No different. No, I didn't see a light
as I saw in the sky. This was like a
pulsating energy coming up off the
ground or coming
>> up through the atmosphere. And it was a
clear night. So there were no clouds or
anything.
>> So you're seeing kind of just the the
fall off of the light over the horizon.
>> Like a pulsation like it was pulsing.
Wow.
>> Like it was like this pulsing. And it
was very bright and it was it was large,
but I didn't, you know, I couldn't get
any I didn't see a a confining um
shape of it. It was just like a light
that you that you'd stand over there in
that corner and just hit a flashlight
and it's pulsing light up is like that.
>> And I said, "Hey, Michael, you see
that?" And of course, he's driving. He's
not about to look. He see what man, you
know, something like that.
So, so Highway 79, take a right.
Soon as we got up on top of that roaded
and turned to the right, then that 4:00
now became the one 130 position, right?
And then you could really see it cuz we
were up higher now. Not much higher, but
high enough where you could see that
pulsation. And I said, "That right
there, do you see that?" And he just
goes, "Man, whatever." He said, "I
don't, you know, I don't know." He just
didn't want to participate or
acknowledge in anything that could be
other than ordinary. And do you think
that's because he's not familiar with
what goes on out there? And so maybe
he's thinking to himself, it's probably
just normal and you know, I just don't
know about it.
>> Well, it might be, but he'd been there
for a while at Ellsworth and been in
security police for a while at Ellsworth
>> and he was in a different area, so he
just really never seen anything. He'd
heard about things, but he'd never
really seen anything to the best of my
knowledge from what he told me later, a
few weeks later.
And
as we uh headed down toward Newell,
population 230 at the time
uh to a stop sign and took a right as it
I lost view of that pulsating light as
it as a road bed got lower down into
town, right? and turn right on Orman
Road, O R M, and it goes out on hard
pave for about I don't know, maybe a
half a mile or less, and it drops back
off on dirt again or clay. And they're
really well maintained by the state and
they're beautiful. You can go 80 mph on
these things, you know. I mean, you
really can't.
And as we made that
dog leg left turn heading to November 5,
which was just down the road, maybe
another mile, there sat this object in
the atmosphere directly over that
missile site, maybe 10 ft above the
blast door. That was a size, and I'm
going to say it is the Super Walmart.
This thing was gargantuan. And it wasn't
a craft that had a shape or a um
defining
shape like wings and and uh you know
rudders or
windshields or anything like that. It
was a complete sphere and it looked like
it had
plasma on the outside of it. Like a
roing surface.
>> Mhm. Like it looked like the sun. It
looked like the surface of a close-up
picture of the sun. like this stuff was
like liquid and and fire and energy all
together just mol like like like molten
rock or something just moving around.
And it did have some little
it had some like uh
energy spikes on it at times like like
these my little spikes would just kind
of pop up. I mean, when you really
looked at and it was it was almost hard
to look at, but I did. I did very as
hard as I could. I really tried to look
at it. And
when we pulled up right on the cattle
gate in front of the site, it was only
maybe 60 to 80 ft to the front gate,
which is which was requirement that I
had to go in. I had to go around the
exterior of the site and go in the gates
and go on the interior.
normal procedure
>> just for patrolling.
>> Yeah. And this thing was so massive that
where it sat how it sat 10 ft above that
blast door. I mean right day on dead in
the middle of that blast door like it
knew where it was.
>> When you say a blast door
>> that's protects the rocket.
>> That's what that's the rocket comes out.
>> Mhm. The ICBM
>> that blows back. Yeah. When the ICBM is
launched, that blows back and it's on
it's on like a railroad track that's
short and it blows it and tips it and
gets it out the way immediately. There's
no pull and back. It's it's gone
>> and it's dead center over the top.
>> Dead center directly over top of it. And
I mean, I even looked at the concrete
glowing underneath it, meaning so
bright, you know, because of of the what
was above it.
And
I looked at Michael and and he was just
like with a he had like a glow around
him all all of a sudden and and it was
just
I mean this is very hard to perceive you
know when you pull up on something on
that this happened it's very difficult
to perceive what you're seeing and
immediately the atmosphere was just
evacuated from our vehicle.
>> Can't breathe.
I know it's because of that crowd.
Taking all the atmosphere away
immediately. What do you mean? I
couldn't breathe. He couldn't either. We
were just gasping for air. just gasping
for air and I felt like there was a
pressure inside the vehicle and I was
being pushed on the chest and literally
lit and I had on, you know, I had on
parka pants, a full full parker, my
beret on, my glove, I had my gloves on.
I took one glove off
um and my weapon
and I just felt like I was being and I
was 200 and something. I was just being
lifted up into that back area of the cab
of that truck. Just just being lifted up
with no visible force or anything upon
me. I was just I couldn't breathe and I
was being pulled up this way and just
like in this chair just being pulled up
or something.
And the only thing that I knew to do was
to ask for relief. And I grabbed a black
3D del aluminum flashlight.
I've called it a Mag Light, but I know
they didn't do commercial maglight
advertising till 79. This was in 77, so
was before it was ever named a Mag
Light.
And I rolled the window down and I
pulled myself up on that on the window
sill of that truck cuz I was so afraid I
I couldn't I wouldn't step out of the
vehicle. I got on bunny boots. Also, I
don't if you know what those are, but
those are for super cold temperature
areas.
They're inflatable. And uh I pull myself
up on that window sill and I I grabbed
onto the bubble up there with my had a
gloved hand on here and I didn't have a
glove on this hand and I just flashed my
light at this incredibly huge object
three or four times just like I did back
at November control. I don't even know
why I did it. I was just asking for
relief in my mind. I was asking for
relief.
Flash. Flash.
>> Okay. I don't even know what this is.
So the is the And I did it for a couple
times
and it was just as if somebody turned
the faucet off. I just I slid back down
in that seat and um I don't know what
happened to my flashlight. I grabbed my
I grabbed my gun. I grabbed my weapon.
And I put it back between my legs and I
told Michael Johnson, I said, "It's
going to be okay now." And could breathe
better. Could literally breathe better.
All this has taken place in about 15
seconds since I rolled up there. And
then a black ball about the size of that
wall right there. What do you think is 8
foot?
It had these lines on it like vents.
They weren't like a like a
It was like I have to say it was like
omnidirectional.
It just came out of nowhere. And it was
a color black that it's not like that
black or that black. It was a black that
is very difficult to to describe. It
wasn't flat black. Wasn't gloss black.
It was just black.
>> It's like a little It's like a
basketball with nozzles all around.
these little like sorts of gas would
shoot from each side of it. It flip it
and it push it and move it and go up and
come down and go have go it go
everywhere. It was just like a little
like a big bullet or something. I don't
know.
>> Did it make any sense what it was trying
to do?
>> No, it was just on top of his right left
of me on the side of him around me.
>> Did you uh smell anything?
>> No.
And uh it came within about 8 in of the
hood of that vehicle and it was
literally right here in front of the
windshield
and it uh it shot straight up straight
down around the side right here next to
me. I mean there's no you don't even you
don't know what uh what it is on the
other side of Michael Johnson side. He
never he's not speaking nor saying
anything. And I mean, I'm not saying
anything.
And when it stayed for 8 or 10 seconds
and then it was just gone.
Uh,
it was the strangest feeling to have
that thing all over you and not even
know what it was. Don't know where it
came from. Never recognized or seen
anything like that in my entire life. If
and the word drone was not even thought
about then or used especially in in any
of my vocabulary anyone else's in
security police that I knew of seem
small object
in front of the vehicle
and really nothing I've ever seen.
>> Can you describe it?
>> Yes.
It was
2 and 1/2 to 3 ft diaper
and it was like a little ball.
I don't know what else to say.
>> Okay, let's let's pause for a second.
Let's pause for a second. Mario,
>> Mario, you need to calm down.
Take a deep breath.
and uh
it left and it seemed like it was a
void. There was like 45 seconds where
there was just nothing but pure white
light inside the vehicle and it just
seemed as if if I can describe it as
time slowing down. And the reason I say
that because the brightness was so
was so intense that I could I could I
could see inside the vents
of that of that F-150. I could see down
inside the vents. It was just lit up a
foot and a half down in the dashboard
from this light and dust particles were
just moving past me like super super
slow
as if time was just stopped or slowed
down.
I have no idea how that's even done or
if that's what happened, but that's the
way it appeared to me. And Michael
Johnson, I can't speak for because every
time I looked at him, he was just he was
just stuck to that steering wheel and he
was just bathed in this light. And mind
you, now we're at a 45 degree angle.
That's our response
position.
So, actually, he was closer to the to
the craft or to the object than I was.
It was on his side of the vehicle. I was
on the dark side.
And uh
I see I see I see this this dust coming
by me and I see all these I don't see
shadows. I see
everything is so lit that I can put
myself right there right now and uh and
it's it's uh it's very it's really
uncomfortable
but everything is so lit that I've never
experienced light lightning or any
search light or anything like that in my
life and it's I think that light in
itself
had a function
of what I don't know. Maybe some type of
a
a sedative type thing
because not one time did I did I feel as
if, you know, I was going to charge my
weapon and start just shooting at
anything or everything. I I I never felt
that way. I um I wanted to run, but
there was nowhere to run. You were that
and or or a mess yourself.
Literally, that's the kind of fear that
that this invoked to me. I can't speak
for anyone else.
And and these thoughts of what I'm
describing, I'm pulling up there. Less
than probably two and a half, three
minutes have passed and all this has
taken place. And I'm I'm guessing there
I'm just saying that that's how quickly
this all unraveled. It's
>> still a long time.
>> Yeah. And then this smell
It hit me like a blanket
and it uh
it just co it just coated inside my
nostrils and in my lungs in my throat.
It just coats me like ammonia and
sulfur. Just it just uh it takes your
your complete attention for everything
else. You don't I've never uh smelled
anything quite like it again. some
something similar in a in a in a cooler
with some shrimp going bad that was
opened pungent.
>> Yeah.
>> Was it like chemical?
>> I can only say ammonia cuz I mean I
worked around all these laboratories and
and different areas like even where I
work now uh in Georgia Pacific. It it's
you know you smell these smells and you
and it sting your nose.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that did. It just coated. It
just felt like I was coated. I couldn't
get it out of me, you know, at all.
And as soon as that was gone,
I I or it wasn't really gone. It was
still there. It permeated inside of that
truck.
I knew the only thing protecting me on
my right side was that thin piece of
glass on that window. And I don't even
know where that where that thought came
from, but that's what I thought.
And then I started to fear. And as soon
as I started to fear is when I heard the
first word, do not fear. Do not fear.
Not verbally inside of me. Like I don't
just mean in my head. I mean through me.
Through every cell in my body radiated
the sound the exact same time.
>> And it was a in English it was three
words.
>> Do not fear. Do not fear. Said in that
way
>> do not fear. If you had to describe the
voice, male or indescribable?
>> Indescribable.
It it just it it's not like anything
we've ever heard. The only thing that I
can associate with it is when a father
or a or a sibling would talk to a baby
in a in a mother's womb. That's the only
thing that I can associate with with how
it would feel because baby hear a baby
hears those things. he hears or she
hears those sounds in a mother's womb
when when the father or you know is
talking to him you know
like all of us dads do like all of us
dads do we've all done that
>> and it always reminded me of that and
I heard that twice do not fear do not
fear and I just turned and I looked to
my right cuz I felt a presence and about
20t away from Okay. Were were four
beings, three small and one tall. And
the one on the on the right,
now the one on the left, it would be I
was just looking from their point of
view. The one on the right, he had they
had on these real skintight little
fitting
I don't they're not coveralls. They're
>> jumpsuits.
>> Jumpsuit. I don't know what. Yeah, I
guess they're they're but they're real
skin tight. And he had a waistband of
some type. And in that band was a stick
about that long and it had a yellow tip
on it about that big.
Besides what I was looking at,
that's really what what I paid attention
to. And it honestly it wasn't what I was
looking at and four alien beings and
their smells and their talking within
me.
It was when I realized what I was
looking at is when in here just kind of
broke down for a second.
Three, four of them.
>> Can you describe them from the shadows?
>> Yes.
>> Okay,
Mario, let's let's back off again.
>> I knew there was no escape.
And there was no sense in saying
anything or doing anything. I don't know
what Michael Johnson was doing at that
particular time.
The next thing I know, I heard, "Do not
fear," one more time in succession
and lights out.
Just that fast. Just lights out.
>> So, how tall is the tall one?
>> Six foot baby.
He's different.
>> Can you describe him?
He had a long head.
He had a very long head.
And he looked at me. He just flew right
through me.
And the little guys didn't bother me
like he did.
Look through me or something.
>> He looked through you?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
And the small ones didn't bother you?
>> They were right up to me.
the little the little unifor
them. I didn't fear them.
>> Okay.
>> They told me not to.
I didn't fear them.
>> And as soon as soon as I couldn't see
anymore or I was out sleep or whatever I
was, I just took a deep breath and I
just popped awake and I'm in total
blackness.
No lights, no missile sight,
completely uh away from where we were.
Didn't know that at the time. I just
thought they'd turn all our lights off
on November 5 cuz that's where we were
dispatched to because of this alarm.
And I said, "Hey, Michael." I said,
"What what happened? What's going on? He
is stuck to this steering wheel just
glued to it
and he wouldn't talk to me. He wouldn't
answer me.
November one the control. I said I got a
problem with Sergeant Johnson. I said I
can't get him to speak to me or
acknowledge me. I said I don't know
where the hell we are. And I I I found
that so odd that
a grown man like you sitting there and
me hollering at him that whatever stuper
he's in, he's going to eventually hear
me.
Pushed his face with my index finger. I
put my finger in his ear about that far,
thinking that would shock him or
something, but it had no effect. And I
turned to my right and I looked as and I
was still thinking about what I had just
seen. Thinking maybe this is all a dream
that this this didn't really happen. And
there's a white wall and it goes up at
about a 45 degree angle.
I know I use a lot of degrees, but I
live that way. And uh and it was wiped
and it went up about 50 ft. It wasn't an
angular it was at an angle.
So I said, "Where are we? Where?" I
said, "What happened? Where is November
5?" And I'm saying this to Michael
Johnson and nothing from him. I reached
down and pulled a lever on the door
handle and I stepped out in mud. And
mind you, it was 9 to 13 degrees and
there was ice on the ground. And where
we were, it wasn't. And I didn't know
where we were. I'd never been there
before. So I'm in question with him. I'm
trying to pull him and and yank him and
talk to him and didn't even think about
the radio or nothing. And we had not
made any kind of security check since we
arrived on November 5, which was really
unusual because that alarm dictated that
we made a security check every 5 minutes
during the process of that what's called
striking a site.
And uh I thought I'm in trouble now. You
know, that's that's all I could think of
everything else. I'm in trouble now.
Uh, a few seconds passed and all of a
sudden the radio just cracked alive and
it said said WSC to November 1. Do you
copy? And I looked at Michael and I
thought, well, here's a friendly voice.
It was a wing security control back at
Ellsworth. Now, these launch control
facilities are very they're very far
away from the main base of Ellsworth.
You live at these facilities, launch
control facilities. There's 15 of them
at Ellsworth or there were for with a
total of 150 missiles. Each launch
control facility has 10 minute man
missiles assigned to it. And you go and
you take care of all 10 of those that
are in your area or you serve as backup
to any other area that may need your
that may need you.
So I continued to try to wake him up and
I said I said uh Aaron Woods uh WSC I
said it's November 1. He said are you
are he goes are you hurt? And I said no
sir. He goes what's your status? And I
said I'm not sure. I'm not sure. And uh
he said again he goes do you need
medical attention or something like
that? And I said, "I don't, but I" I
said, "I can't get my partner, Michael
Johnson, to talk to me." I said, "He's
just frozen to the steering wheel and
won't move." And there was a long pause.
He didn't really know how to He didn't
know what to say about that. I mean,
these things are all new. You just got
to go with it as it comes at you. You
can't There's really not a procedure
that I knew of that you had guidelines
to follow, unlike striking a site or
something like that, which we had strict
guidelines. And that was my biggest
worry is I never stepped a foot on that
site and that you know and I was
responsible for that. So
I was going to be in trouble. That's all
I could think about was I was going to
be in trouble and how was I going to
explain this? You know
>> you and Michael?
>> Yeah. How's I going to explain this? And
I couldn't get him to say a word. I
didn't know what he thought or what he
heard or what he didn't hear. I you know
I'm still shaken from what I've heard
and what I saw and what I smelled with
that's never left me.
I want to pause here and just go back a
little bit to the encounter.
Um,
when you saw Clearly, this is hard for
you to talk about.
>> Yeah,
>> I see that.
>> It gets me. I try not to let it bother
me, but it it just comes upon me.
>> How can you not?
>> I don't know.
>> And I mean, this is otherworldly. I
mean, there's there's no other way to
put it. And you know, any way that you
feel about it, there's no protocol
>> for how you're supposed to feel about
these things. So, you know, but it is
clear to me that you have an emotional
reaction to reliving this. Um, when you
saw Michael Johnson's face as he was
being bathed in this light in the car,
what was his expression? Wide eyes,
breathing normal, just wide eyes. That's
really all I could tell from
>> Was his mouth open? Was he just
>> No, no, I don't remember his mouth was
open. It was a little bit later, but it
wasn't then. Do
>> you feel like he was just in shock?
>> He was just like
stuck in time or something. I don't
>> Frozen.
>> Yeah, he was just frozen. He was just
literally locked up. And you know, and
and I got to say, I didn't pay attention
to his arms cuz I really couldn't see
him at that time and his hands. But
pulling his jacket back when we got him
up when I got him off the steering
wheel, he was so he was so locked up.
Uh, literally,
how long had he been stuck on that
steering wheel like that? How do you how
do you grab onto something and not let
go for however long it was
and not be aware of it? for one and for
two. It It was almost as if we were
going to break a finger getting his
hands on off that blue plastic F-154
steering wheel literally. And I had help
doing that.
>> Okay. So, take me back then. You're
you're being radioed in. First of all,
the radio calling in. Did you ever
wonder how long have they been trying to
reach us?
>> Mhm.
>> Did you ever get an answer to that?
>> No.
>> No. So it could have been the first time
like you could have just maybe appeared
and they're like, "Oh, what are you guys
doing out there?" Like there's no way
>> that you can know that.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. And so
>> you get radioed in, they send help.
Well, first you got to find out where
you are.
>> Mhm.
When I stepped out and found out I was
in standing in mud, I just had great
questions that I couldn't even begin to
answer with everything else that had
just gone on. And I kept trying to talk
to him. And then wing security control
said we want you to make one minute
security checks because we are going to
triangulate your position. He didn't say
we were doing it. He said we are going
to triangulate your position. And I'd
never been a part of that or know had I
not done done it either. But we learned
something similar to that in tech school
security police tech school. Just never
used it. Never thought it would or you
know but it was there in case it had to
be used. So he was doing that based on
his one minute security checks that I
had. I just call in, you know, and say,
"Senior Emerald Woods, wing security
control, security check." And he just
104 that he said, "They're coming.
They're coming. They're coming. You
know, we're trying. We're trying." And
that's that's the response I got back
and forth from him. And of course, he he
kept asking me about Michael Johnson,
you know, do you see do you know, can
can you get him on the radio? I said, "I
can't get him off the steering wheel. I
can't get him to speak. I can't get him
to do anything." And there was a great
pause in that. I don't know you know
because
all the all the wing security control
personnel listen to that all the
security police personnel listen to that
all of them through all three facilities
through all see three sites I mean
through all three areas the 66 67 68 so
everybody was aware of it
what I was not aware of is where I was
and how we got there
and it started getting Right now, we
arrived November 5 before 1:00 a.m.
preferably right around 12:304 to 1
somewhere in there when all this took
place.
When I looked at my little old military
time, $20 watch back then,
it was after 6:00 a.m.
So, almost 6 hours. 5 hours at least had
passed. 5 hours.
No recollection how we got there. When
did you look at your watch at that
point?
>> When the sun came up. When
>> So you saw a sun and you were confused.
>> I said it doesn't come. It just started
getting light in the east and I went,
"What the heck?" Because
I had no idea this much time had passed.
It just seemed It just didn't It just
seemed like a second, like a few minutes
from where we were to where we are now.
>> Did that hit you at all when you saw the
time?
>> Yeah. I was like, "Oh my god, now I'm
really in trouble because we didn't go
on that site.
I just knew I was going to answer to a
lot of stuff, you know, right then and
there. And I still couldn't get my
partner, my team leader,
>> to do to answer or to be any or
cognitive of anything that was going on
at all. He just he was just a blank.
And it was a little after 6 when I saw
the first set of headlights coming over
a hill. And we were about I guess we're
about four and a half miles off the
road.
of Highway 79 behind New Lake Reservoir
Dam.
But I do want to know and back up a
little bit to where when I got out of
the vehicle and looked this way and that
way, which ended up being north and
south,
the road that we were on, we just This
was a two- wheelel drive vehicle.
All of our Fords out there, they were
all two wheel drive vehicles, rear wheel
drive. And where we were sitting on this
on this little road behind this dam,
there was just wheels wide enough to be
sitting upon. There was not a place to
go in there and turn around than to come
back in the direction in which we were
facing. It was the only way we could be
facing to get out of there. If not, we
couldn't we couldn't have gotten our
vehicle out of there. If it had been
sitting
east and west,
you couldn't have moved it. And had
Michael Johnson been conscious and
opened up his door and it would have
been total darkness and took two steps,
he'd have gone down about a 20 or 30
foot drop off, not straight, but just a
slant of drop off into another holding
pond for that dam
overflow cuz the Weir dam was down to
was north of us at the at the far end of
New Lake Reservoir Dam.
>> But there were tracks coming in.
>> There were no tracks.
>> There were no tracks coming in.
>> No tracks anywhere. So, fresh snow, ice.
>> Yeah, it was ice and snow. And there was
no tracks.
>> And there was no tracks.
>> No tracks. None. Where we were was just
a round place that was dethawed and wet
and clay.
>> And there was mud around your truck.
>> Mud. Yeah. And there was no tracks
coming in for us. when when uh Sergeant
Garza, he was a buck sergeant, and him
and his team member, they were from they
were a backup alert team from another
facility, I think Oscar,
I think Oscar Flight, they sent them
over, and of course, we had our backup
alert team. Now, I think they they might
have gone
at the same time, you know, 20, 30 feet
apart. Sergeant Garza was the closest.
And one thing I don't remember is if our
vehicle was running or it was off. I
don't remember that.
>> Did they comment on the fact that there
was no tracks?
>> Not at that time. No, at all. Sergeant
Garza didn't either, but he said, and I
walked around.
I stepped out and I walked around the
front of the vehicle. I walked toward
him. He's about 20 ft away from me
and I said, "Sergeant Garza," I said,
"What's going on, man?" He goes,
"Mario?" He goes, "I don't know, but I
can't talk to you about that." He said,
"I'm just here to escort you to November
control." I looked around and I said,
"What the hell are we doing here, man?"
And as I noticed,
it wasn't dark anymore. It was getting
late.
And I said, "What time is it,
man?"
And it was like 6:15 in the morning. And
I said, ' Okay, I understand.
And I told him, I said, uh, I said, 'I
need help with Michael Johnson.' He
didn't know Michael Johnson either, cuz
I said he wasn't on our normal flight.
And he just, he said, what do you mean?
I said, I can't get him to talk. I can't
get him to move. I can't get him to
acknowledge anything. I said, I don't
know what's wrong with him. So, he
walked over to the vehicle, not saying
anything. I opened up the driver's side
door, and there's Michael sitting there
like this, seat belted in. We only had
lap belts, seat belted in, and he's just
stuck on the steering wheel,
>> staring straight ahead.
>> Staring straight ahead, eyes. I don't
know if he was blinking or not. I I
never remember him blinking at all. I
put my hand in his face. Like I said, I
did everything I could possibly do.
Screamed at him, yelled at him,
finger in the air, every everything.
Everything. No response at all. Just a
locked up human being. Anyway, finally
we unbutted him and we both I got on I
got on the um passenger side and came
across the seat because we had to get
him in the in the passenger seat and I
started working on his right hand
undoing his thumb and his and his index
finger and getting his hand opened up so
I can get it off the steering wheel.
Garza did the same thing on the left
side and that's how we got his hand off
of there.
>> When you were taking his hand off, did
his fingers stay in position as you were
opening them or did they were they
trying to like Oh,
>> they were trying to continue on. They
were trying to keep holding.
>> It was like he was in a great muscle
cramp in both arms. I mean, he was like
he's in a great muscle cramp. And
>> I just don't have I don't have words for
it. And once we got him off the steering
wheel and put his place his hands down
on his lap like that, I just grabbed him
on the inside of the leg and up by the
back of the collar and I just gra drag
him across the seat and I just put the
seat belt back on him and I kept talking
to him the whole time and nothing. He
just sat there just like this looking
straight ahead and just sitting there.
Just sat there the entire time. Never
said a word.
His weapon was there. All his stuff, his
diddy back was up was where it was
supposed to be. Everything was where it
was supposed to be and had been.
I went around and got into the driver's
seat, cranked the truck up. I did do
that. I remember that. And uh drivers
went back to his vehicle. So the truck
was off.
>> The truck was off. Yeah. At that time it
was off.
So I cranked it up, turned on the
lights, everything was fine. Started to
move. I slipped a little bit. You know,
as I said, it was only two wheel drive
and we were crunching through this snow
and ice. You know, it was about a foot
and a half deep, foot, foot and a half
deep. And got in behind Garza, they
turned around and they went on uh as we
exited out on the Highway 79. The other
two backup alert teams, they went their
way, but Garza stayed with us all the
way to November control. Got to the gate
at November control. They opened the
gate when they saw us coming. Of course,
there was radio communication going to
the gate. They had automatic gate. So,
um
that was opened and I pulled in right in
front of the flight security
controller's office. It was just like an
outward vestable. And when did there
was, you know, there were the offduty
security policeman there. There was Bill
Hollowman was there. There were uh two
officers there that had been underground
that morning. They waited. Their relief
normally takes place and they leave
every other day I think is how that
works. And I can't quite recall their
schedule, but usually at the alternate
command center they stayed there
overnight. They didn't stay do that same
schedule on other sites. So they were
relieved with their new guys going
downstairs and they come up. So I had um
Bill Hollowman, the onduty security
policeman that were there and myself and
Michael Johnson would make up the
offduty
shift. But we have um facility manager,
a side cook, and of course my flight
chief, Master Sergeant Joel Gray and
Tech Sergeant Robert Hawkins. They were
both there awaiting our arrival. And
when they pulled up, they just ca uh
came up to the side of the vehicle and
and as I stepped out,
um Sergeant Grace said, he goes, "What's
going on with you? What's going on with
you?" or something like that. Cuz he was
an Alabama guy and we had a really good
rapport in relationship. What's going on
with you, boy? Or something something
like that. And I said, "I'm I don't
know, Sergeant Gray." I said, "I don't
know how to answer you, sir." He said,
"What's wrong with him?" I said, "I
don't know." And they literally opened
the door and got him out. I said, "He
has to have help." I said, "He's not
responding to anything. I've been trying
to talk to him and get his get his
attention in any way or get him to talk
or even acknowledge that there's
somebody else in the room with him, but
he won't even do that." So, literally
the flight security or no, the um
facility manager
and I think one of the officers of the
two got him. Yeah, he's a lieutenant. He
got him and they put him under then they
got him under the shoulders and they
took him to the back room to the to the
uh facility manager's bedroom and they
set him down. I guess they try to get
some fluids in him or something. But we
were immediately separated and that was
the strangest thing because all I did
was ask about him. So they took me in
the I went in the day room. We turned in
our weapons as that's normal procedure.
It was a program said we were relieved
of our weapons but that's never been the
case. They didn't take anything. They
had never took our weapons period.
um
turned in all of our stuff, code tables
and all the stuff had to be burned and
that was done. But
uh
>> were you tired at this point?
>> I don't really recall how I was. I I I
don't think so. I think I was so full of
>> adrenaline.
>> Yeah. And mind you, I'd been up the day
before since about 4:00 when
>> when I was brought to the SATAP building
to go do my normal 3-day shift
>> and then I stayed up all day and then
this happened that night, you know, and
so I'd been up all that time straight.
>> So maybe even a little bit delirious at
this point because you're like trying to
figure out what happened. You've got
missing time. You might be tired, but
also you have this adrenaline pumping
through your system. Very strange.
>> Probably a very strange feeling.
>> It It really honestly is. Yes. and
>> and confusion.
>> I I I just knew that I had to be very
selectful in every single
emotion and word that I stated that day
to anybody I spoke with cuz uh
>> you did not want them mistaking what
happened for something else.
>> Had I said what I saw out that right
side window approaching me, PRP would
have been gone. My job would have been
gone. I'd have probably been put in a
store room or
>> something, but my whole career would
have been down to tubes just that fast.
>> And just to pause here, PRP, the
personal reliability program.
>> Yes.
>> Um, can you explain a little bit about
what that is?
>> Oh, yeah. Well, it's a it's a security
measure taken from personnel that work
uh in in highly sensitive areas around
nuclear equipment or sensitive nuclear
materials or anything like that deemed
that a catastrophe or
a wrong move or a person that was
unscrupulous could take something and do
something with it to hurt others and
many others.
>> Yeah. or contaminate something or could
do anything to to harm many many people.
So the PRP program is placed there uh in
essence as a guideline to keep people on
the straight and narrow.
>> So you're drug tested regularly.
>> Yeah. Drug tested.
>> Well, they do a swab, P test,
>> uh blood test,
>> hair test, all the above. Yes.
>> And then let's say you have a headache
one day and you want to grab a couple
aspirin.
>> Well, that's okay. An aspirin is okay.
>> Aspirin's okay. But if you take any kind
of uh drug, you know, that that should
be prescribed and is not.
>> Sure.
>> It shows up and boom, you're done. I
mean, you're taken in, you're examined,
and you're cross- referenced and
investigated. And
>> the idea of you saying like, "Oh, I'm
feeling uh I'm feeling depressed or
something." You can't say any of that.
>> Negative.
>> That's gone.
>> That's gone.
>> So, you're under pretty strict
>> guidelines. guidelines almost
surveillance.
>> Oh yeah.
>> And so you're choosing your words wisely
because you know that if you say the
wrong thing here, there goes your job.
>> Everything.
>> Your clearances, everything.
>> Everything. And I was, you know, I was
new. I was just a senior airman and uh I
was newly married and uh
I'm just trying to
do a job. Yeah. That's that's what I was
there for. And I really enjoyed it up to
that point. I just didn't understand
what had happened.
>> Are you thinking to yourself, Michael is
going to lose his job?
>> I didn't know.
>> I honestly didn't know cuz I couldn't I
didn't know what he had seen, what he
heard, what he would remember.
>> But just like his state, like the state
that he's in. I would have been like,
"Yeah, maybe he's this guy's, you know,
this guy's, you know, he's I I didn't
know if he'd ever recover from it the
way that that I saw him. I've never seen
another human being act that way."
>> So now you go into like a debriefing
situation. I'm just in a day room, just
in a normal day room where we sit and
watch TV. They had to turn the TV off
>> and everybody that was even on duty was
standing around the outer perimeter and
they had me sitting in a chair, you
know, a lean back chair and in the day
room just and Sergeant Gray was kind of
me Sergeant Gray was kind of leading the
the investigation or the interrogation
and getting ideas from others. in the
city. There were there was one officer
in there. The other one was back with
Michael Johnson and the facility manager
in in that room. And
I was just asked everything. What what
happened? What did you see? What did you
do? You didn't go on the site, you know,
what happened? They were, you know, and
I told them, I said, "It was an object."
I said, "Gargantuan thing." I said, "I
don't know what happened." Well, how did
you get to where you were? I mean, just
all types of cross referencing questions
like like that. said, "I don't know how
we got there." Well, the vehicle didn't
drive itself there. I mean, there was,
you know, there was rebuttal in a lot of
things that I even said, you know, and
and it just it just makes you feel
smaller and smaller. Well, how come you
didn't you didn't strike that sight? And
I couldn't really answer that other than
I don't know why, you know, and you had
to be very selectful in that in that
appropriate answer.
>> So, you mentioned the object, you didn't
mention the beings, the smell,
>> correct?
>> Any of that stuff.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. And I and I told him of the the of
the round ball object too that came down
in front of the vehicle about the
evacuation of the atmosphere inside the
truck, the pressure on the chest for
both of us and how Michael Johnson acted
and what he did or didn't do. Everything
that I've told you with the exception of
what I saw out this out the right side
window, I told them as best I could. And
of course that wasn't the end of it. So
after about two two hours, two and a
half hours of that, then Sergeant Gray,
he was in the flight security
controller's office while I was still
out there. I told him, I said, "I I have
to go to the restroom. I just needed I
needed to I needed some silence to
myself, you know, and not that I had to
do anything or whatever. I just I went
into that restroom and there were two
stalls and I just went into the far
stall and I closed the door and I just
sat there and uh I was in my fatigues.
Uh, I I I I just felt I felt dingy. I
felt dirty or grimy or something was a
better word for it. And uh I remember
putting my head on my on my in my hands
and on my knees. And I just sat there
kind of just rubbing my head and all of
a sudden I get this
super high-pitched whining in my ears
and my eyes are closed and it's like a
scream in my in my inside my head.
just super high pitch. And I opened my
eyes and then
the colors around me changed
uh
like pea green like like honestly like a
pea green color just everywhere. I was
that's what I was seeing out of my eyes.
everything just looked that way. And it
was a bright sunny day. And I don't know
if uh perhaps uh being subjected to
bright light or something like that was
doing that cuz I was trying to find an
answer in my mind. It was just rolling
over.
But this noise got so loud. I I remember
placing my hands on the side of my ears
and I put my head down and when I closed
my eyes, I was leaving my body and I had
a I had a clear path
through me out my feet.
I just knew there was a way that I could
leave my body. And I felt like I kept
anytime I close my eyes, I go further
down each time. And I get here, I I got
down to here.
if there's such a measurement.
And it freaked me out so bad I popped my
eyes back open. And when I did, I see
this I see these four little furry feet
going across the tile floor in front of
the door in the stallin I'm in. It was a
German Shepherd drug dog. And behind him
was two pair uh a pair of uh super shiny
Cochran uh law enforcement boots that we
always wore. And uh the guy says, "You
okay in there, Mario?" And I said,
"Yeah, man." I said, "I'm all right. I'm
fine." I said, "I'm glad you're here." I
said, "My diddy bag's out there in the
day room." And he said he said, "Oh,
I've already checked all that." He said,
"You guys are good." He said, "I've done
it all." He said, "I just came to check
on you." So evidently he knew me, but I
don't know who he was. I don't I just
don't know who he was. It's just he knew
me though. So he I opened the door and
he's still there and you're not supposed
to pet their dogs ever. And I didn't,
but I just said, you know, what a pretty
boy he was. I remember looking and he
had my attention. And
>> did you feel flushed at all?
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And
and the colors had not come completely
back yet. I still had that I still had
that vision in my mind of or in my
eyesight of this pea green color and it
was it was calming down. But all I
wanted to do, I turned that sink water
on, that ice cold water from that huge
well underground. That's South Dakota
water. It's like here. It's super cold,
you know, and super nice. And I I just
drenched myself and I had my fatigues
on, had long johns on and a t-shirt,
long john top, you know, long john pants
and my my fatigue pants. I just soaked
myself. And we weren't wearing cammy
fatigues and we were wearing those grays
back back at that time. And uh I was put
all my hair and my face and got me a
paper towel and was wiping myself down.
And I walk back out in the day room and
I remember Master Sergeant Gray saying,
"What did you take a bath in there?" I
said, "Yes, sir." I said, "If I could, I
I would do that." I said, "I just I just
I needed to do that." He didn't say
nothing. He said, "Well, get your bag."
He said, "We've got to go back to base."
He said, "Wing commander and the base
commander or deputy base commander wants
to meet with you." So, that's where we
were heading about 55 minutes back to
Ellsworth Air Force Base.
>> I want to put a little pause here. Mhm.
>> I find it very interesting the out of
body thing and
uh it reminds me because one of the best
ways have you ever left your body since
then?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. One of the best ways that I've
encountered through people I've talked
to and interviewed and the books I've
read about leaving your body is fatigue.
>> Fatigue is like almost a guaranteed way.
Like if you skip a night's sleep
>> and you try to stay up. Um there was a
there was a guy Marco who was in our
group at the gateway process when I did
the Monroe thing and he was a
firefighter and they would often you
know
>> spend 48 hours up and they'd sleep at
the firehouse and one night he was
telling me too is like as soon as his
head hit the bed like as soon as it hit
the bed he didn't have time to fall
asleep like he was rising up through his
body and going through the ceiling and
whatnot.
>> But that seems to be
>> you know um a catalyst for out-of- body
events. So you might have been
experiencing that on top of this other
thing, you know, or maybe it was
facilitated by your experience. I don't
know. But it I think it's interesting
that you had that happen there. Like how
bizarre does this day get?
>> Absolutely. It's
I try to make sense of it and and
not only but what but why and what's the
lesson
>> and I I can't answer any of it. I really
can't. Uh
I I do every day because there's not a
day goes by where some part of this
doesn't in infiltrate back infiltrate
back to me in some in some way. I can
see something that pushes that memory
forward or I can smell something that
ignites other thoughts. You know, it
it's it's really uh it's consuming and
it's
it never goes away and I don't think it
ever will until the day I'm no more. But
yeah, it's a strong um
you know a lot of people in your
position
I you know that I've spoken to and I
asked them like what's the one thing
that you would ask them
you know whatever did this and the
answer is often is not often is always
why me.
>> Yeah.
>> It's um it's an invasive personal sort
of thing that you went through.
And for something that
really important to have happened, there
has to be a reason, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Um, okay. So, you're you got 55 mile
drive to
>> back to Ellsworth.
>> Back to Ellsworth.
>> Yeah. And I kept I even asked Sergeant
Gray before we left. I said, "Well, what
about Michael Johnson?
Don't worry about him. He'll be fine.
Sergeant Hawkins is gonna bring him
back." I said, "Okay, no problem." So, I
got my stuff and got in his vehicle all
the way back, you know, we talked about
the whole thing. He from start to finish
and what I saw. I guess he was looking
for something else other than what I had
told him, you know, and he and he even
asked me, he says, "There's something
else that you want to tell me that you
haven't told everybody." And again, I
would not say what I saw out that right
window. I didn't
>> He was asking you.
>> Yeah. He was asking me, "Is there
anything else I wanted to say?" you
know, you know what I saw that I didn't
want to that I didn't say in front of
everybody back at the at the launch
control facility.
>> So, I just I said, "No." I said, "That's
that's what I remember. That's what I
know." And I just continued onward. And,
you know, we talked small talk, you
know, and I didn't I tried not to
I tried not to just discuss that the
whole way back. I only answered
questions that he asked me. And I'd look
and say, "Oh, it's a that's a pretty cow
over there along the road along the
highway." Or, you know, this is really
beautiful country up here. You know, I
just tried to get my mind and his
questioning off of me for a little bit.
I guess that was kind of like the
refreshing part of taking a bath in the
sink, you know, was getting some of that
off of me. But
I could tell he was concerned. And he
did say something concern something
about when his dad was young and he were
fishing or something that they saw
something but that's all he said. He
didn't say go into it anymore. And I you
know I just tried to tell him
I don't think he I don't think he could
comprehend the size of this thing. I
really don't.
because I told him I said in my opinion
I said it'd be at least
at least the size of the SATA building
which was our security police main ops
building back on base and which was a
old B-52 hanger converted in the office
area and training area for us.
>> Some people say the size of a football
field they literally mean
>> yeah it really is the size of a football
field and I think to our visitors size
has no meaning whatsoever. They they do
whatever they
whatever they need, I guess. I don't
know. But so 55 minutes back went into
the boxelder gate, which is the back
gate at Ellsworth. Went to the SATA
building.
He brought me up to the side door. I got
my stuff, my diddy bag, and I followed
him in, went in front of um
For me, it was like 1 or 2:00.
My wife had not been notified. They
wouldn't let me talk to her.
Even when I was talking,
uh, Colonel Ralph Breaker's uh, office
door. Of course, he had me set on a
bench outside the door
and uh he was a security police
commander and he's been a pretty good
guy up to that time when I'd had
interaction with Colonel Breaker, but he
and he knew me uh by name and they try
to know everybody and and and also that
there are uh about 800 security
policemen
on at Ellsworth Air Force Base, whether
they work aircraft or they work
missiles. So about they said that one in
four people that you'd meet walking down
the sidewalk or in the B extra
commissary was a security policeman
which was true which I mean really was.
So when he came back out he was in about
15 or 20 minutes with the commander.
When he came back out he said all he's
ready to see you now. He said report in.
So that meant, you know, a full a formal
report in, meaning I got up and uh
master Greg went back into the room and
over to the right side of the room and
uh Colonel Spreer's desk was like
straight ahead uh maybe 20 25 ft. It's a
rather large size office. So I hit him,
banged on the door, you know, like that.
And he said, "Enter," you know, and I I
walked up to his desk within 3 ft of it
and I said, "Senior was reporting as
ordered, sir." instead of detention
until he told me I could go at ease and
which I did and not really looking but
counting people as I went in there was a
total of five people in there and there
were three
standing uh one standing and two sitting
over to my left one young guy
medium-aged guy maybe or middle-aged guy
maybe in his 30s or so then there was a
tall older man and he had on a like a
gray tweed suit and a hat and he had the
hat under his arm so I thought he maybe
he ex-military or something cuz you know
you don't you don't wear your lid
>> your cover inside any building at any
time
>> and then I had the deputy base commander
was there u besides uh Colonel Breaker
Coloner was behind his desk and the and
the deputy base commander was sitting
over to his right and uh he said well
senior what seemed like you've had an
interesting evening that's what he said
interesting evening and I didn't I just
looked at him and I said uh yes sir
just that's all I knew to say. He goes,
"You want to tell us about it?"
And I I said, "Yes, sir." And I looked
to my looked to my left.
>> And I remember him saying something
like, "Don't worry about them."
>> Cuz I thought maybe he'd introduce me to
them or something. This is so and so, so
and so. But I I didn't rate that high,
rank that high, so they didn't have to
tell me anything.
So, I went through the whole thing of of
uh telling them about flashing the light
at this thing, you know, out to the east
side of the site and where it was
located in the sky and what I did and
who I told because they had to be
brought in and talked to as well. It
wasn't just me.
>> You had a crowd rate.
>> Yeah. Everything everybody that was that
was involved had to had to be talked to.
And uh
told him about Michael Johnson, how he
acted. And again, I asked I said, "How
is Michael Johnson?" And I kept telling
him, "Don't worry about Michael Johnson.
He'll be just fine. This is just about
you and what we're talking about in this
room right now." And I I said, "Yes,
sir."
Um, and Master Sergeant Gray, he was
sitting over to my He was over my right,
and he was standing. He wasn't sitting
either.
They went through
everything. And I guess Sergeant Gray
had had said something or told him a
little bit about what happened. I really
don't know because he started u Colonel
Spreer started saying some things like,
"Well, tell me about the size of this
craft. Tell me about this. Tell me
about, you know, this item that came
down over the hood and that and around
your vehicle. What did you smell?" I
told him, "I smelled." And I I explained
all that to him. Nobody ever questioned
or said a word about any of that. And
this went on with questions and answers
by me for about two and a half hours.
>> Wow.
>> So I'd been up all that time and got
into the base. I guess it was about 10
10:30 that morning. I was in his office
still at 12:30 or so. And uh the
I knew he was pushing for me to say
something about seeing. He kept asking
me, "Did you is there anything you're
not telling me? Is there anything you're
not telling me?" And I said, "No, sir."
And I wouldn't just I wouldn't say what
I saw at all out the side of that
window.
>> How do you think they knew?
>> I have no idea.
I hadn't said anything unless Michael
Johnson had said something, but I I
don't know if he I don't think he did. I
really don't know.
But I did get answers a few weeks later,
not by them, but by Michael Johnson. And
I'll go into that.
>> Well, so and this man in the gray tweed
suit, you never find out who he is.
>> And I know that um
>> skinny, a real skinny guy, too. You
know, I thought he Yeah, he's tall and
skinny.
>> Gauntike. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Emaciated looking. I was I was
like what is what is this guy? He needs
to eat something. I mean really I
thought that
>> he was old
>> older
>> 50s60s somewhere like that.
>> And then the man sitting next to him was
uh captain um Jack Reed and he was the
um OSI u commander or officer in charge.
>> Yeah. at Ellsworth at that time and
sitting next to him
was a young officer OSI named Rick
Dodie.
>> Richard Dodie. Yeah.
>> And I didn't know him from Adam's House
Cat and uh
>> this is early in
>> 77. I never early in his career.
>> Yeah. Never known him or I didn't even
think anything about him or
>> But he was OSI.
>> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Yes, he was. probably just on some
training too. Like I mean
>> that's what he later told me. He was
there to study
sack communications. They had something
going on with some communication
activities that they didn't uh
understand or something. That's what he
told me.
>> He it's so it's you know when you
mention his name in this topic and for
those that are not familiar with Richard
Dodie, he's got a sorted history with
misinformation and it's really hard to
take what he says at face value. But,
you know, if it were possible to take
what he says at face value, he's got to
have some interesting stories.
>> Oh my god.
>> If we were able to believe anything he
said,
>> Yes.
>> If he's in a room like that, how many
other rooms like that was he in?
>> Exactly.
>> So, okay. But these this this tall
gentleman as well in the tweed suit, it
was was it Bob Jacobs who had mentioned?
>> No. Who was who who had mentioned the
tweed suits?
Uh
>> there was another instance of uh
gentleman in tweets suits. I think it
was Bob Jacobs when he got debriefed.
>> Oh, okay. All right. Going back to that.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. When they were telling him like,
"Oh, you didn't see anything or
whatever.
>> Anything? Don't ever talk about it
again."
>> Yeah. There was gentlemen in tweed suits
again. Um
>> Yeah. And it was a light gray. It was an
ugly ugly suit even for 1977. I thought
>> not military.
>> Yeah. No, not military.
>> And and for a civilian
>> Mhm.
>> to be in that room.
>> Yeah.
I mean, what the heck? You don't get you
don't get access to that type of thing
as a civilian. No, especially, you know,
the sensitive nature of the area, let
alone a sighting with some unidentified
object. You're sitting on a base that
has nukes.
>> No civilian is just going to walk into a
room with a colonel and listen in on
some type of debrief. Like, what is your
position, sir? Where are you from?
>> Abs. Absolutely.
>> OSI has to be there.
>> Yes. But this other gentleman dressed as
uh you know in in civilian
garb is is unusual.
>> Very unusual. And that's the way I I
didn't I felt I felt something from him.
I don't know what it was but
I was I don't know. I I I knew where
Colonel Spreer stood and I knew where
the deputy base commander was standing.
I I know what how they were feeling and
you know they had to go look at radar.
They had to go look at a whole lot of
things. They I mean the tower would have
would have picked that thing up. Yeah. I
never got anything I never got any
information concerning that. I mean they
just shut me down as quickly as
possible.
>> And this and our our talking or our
debriefing went on like I said two and a
half or so hours.
>> A lot of things discussed there.
>> Yeah. And after what I'd already been
through at at back at November control
with masterard and grave. I mean, I
don't know if any of those that one
officer that was in in the room in the
day in the day room with us and anybody
else, maybe they made phone calls and
had a maybe they had information that we
talked about there and not in the
commander's office because it just
seemed as if they had something
preset up before I got there. How did
all how long did these people known
about this before I even arrived? How
long had they been in that room and what
had they discussed? That that was a
question that I brought to Rick Dodie
when I finally made communication with
him in
201
18 2019 2021 maybe.
>> Did he give you any information that you
deemed valuable? He just simply said he
was he um he knew of it and knew that
there were two of us uh and that he was
sent to medical to pick up our medical
records because I was taken in the
commander staff car by a driver over
when our debriefing stopped
uh in the commander's office. I was
asked to go to um the flight surgeon's
office to be examined. So I did as I was
told and they all stayed behind. But
when I got over when that driver took me
over to um the hospital to the flight
surgeon's office, there were there were
two flight surgeons in there. And when I
got there, Rick Dodie and that Jack
Reed, they were already there. And this
was the kind of uh uh examination room
that had those it's important that I
tell you this. It's they had those uh
those gray dividers of the 50s60s
vintage that uh separated like
examination rooms and then they had like
that wavy glass at the top of them. So
they were on the outside of that looking
toward where I was. And I went there was
a nurse and there were two of these fly
surgeons when I went in there. And uh
the taller one said to me, he said,
"Senior Woods." He said, "You had an
interesting evening." I understand
again.
>> So I just looked at him. I said, "Yes,
sir." He goes, "Asked me if I disrobe,"
which I did. And you know, down to my
underwear and a wet t-shirt.
And uh so they examine me, eyes, nose,
ears, throat, elbows, everything. And
just talking and talking between
themselves. They'd walk off for a
second. They talk. And that whole
process probably took 30 40 minutes to
do that. And then the the the short one
came over and uh he reached into a box
as he was talking to me and he says,
"How you feeling?" And I I said, "I feel
okay." I said, "I'm a little tired. I
haven't slept in, you know, a long
time." And he reaches in to get one of
these gloves and pops it on his hand.
Well, you know, I immediately thought,
>> "Oh,
>> you know, I wasn't ready for that." But
I get I had to participate. That's one
thing about the military. When they're
going to do something, they're going to
do it, you know. And uh so I just kind
of Okay. Well, here we go. And he goes,
"Do you mind if I um I need to look at
your gums?"
I said, "What?"
>> Michael Johnson
was still in the hospital while I was
there. I don't I didn't see him, but I
sensed him for some reason.
I couldn't talk to him. He wouldn't let
me see him again.
He goes, "I need I need to look at your
gums."
I'd never had braces or cavities or
anything in my life.
And uh you know, always I always I was
always good on that on that point. And
uh so I opened my mouth and this man
took his thumb and his index finger and
he spent about two two and a half
minutes in my mouth just squeezing my
gums really hard, pressing down against
the floor of my of my jaw inside, thumb
up in the roof of the mouth. And he just
really just kind of sectored every part
of the inside of my mouth all the way
back to where I had wisdom teeth at the
time. all the way back into my wisdom
teeth
and just pressing and pushing and you
know and he would say something to
himself but I really couldn't make heads
or tails of what he was saying. He
didn't really speak something like a
word that you know like I see this or I
see that or he when he stopped he walked
back over to the tall guy and they just
turned their backs to me and they were
10 ft away or so. The nurse is standing
over there and then she they turn around
and say something to her and she walks
over and she's got a little metal plate
about like or tray and it's got two
vials on it about that long and they
were um they were not glass they were
they were a metal metal vial
and he goes um he walked back over to me
both of them did
say anything else about my about my gum
at all. I mean, I'm still feeling, you
know, I'm still feeling the pressure it
was he left in my mouth when he when he
stopped.
So, I didn't know what was coming next,
but he goes, "Um,"
he goes, "You know, you have a couple of
you have some burns on your body." And I
said, "Excuse me?" He goes, "Yeah, you
got" He reached up and he grabbed me by
the he goes, "Right up here." He said,
"You got a little you got a little burn
right here above this eye." And he said,
"Look on your hand." And I went like
this. And you know, I'm an old Tampa
boy, so I know what sunburn's like. And
when you spend time like in the
Northwest
in a long period of time and then you go
down to Tampa, Florida and you lay on
the beach, you're going to get smoked
because that happened to me. But I could
feel it when they said that and really
felt it more the next day. So he opens
up this vial and it had a tool in it. He
opens it up and he takes first he does
the hand first and he takes a sample
from over here and then one from over
here and it's on the same tool.
>> How is it a sample? It's just like a
tweezer with a blunt end on it like
this. And he just kind of go like that.
>> Takes a piece of skin.
>> Takes a piece of skin. And then he goes
and he he goes to the next location. He
does the same thing, but it's it's
together. I mean, it wasn't
the same. That that piece of meat was
with this piece. I guess it just put it
all together. He just snip snip like
that. And then he reached up and he put
it in that little vial and put a a
rubber stopper on top of it. Laid it
down on the tray. And he got the other
one out. And he right here above my eye.
And he did the same thing. And they took
they just took samples. Didn't take
blood, didn't take urine, nothing. No
nothing. Didn't take hair sample,
nothing, put it on the vial. The nurse
came over and picked the stuff up. Went
over there with it and put it down. They
went over and talked for a few more
minutes. And he said, "Um, Senior
Woods." He says, "You can go ahead and
get dressed." He says, "If we got any
questions, we'll let you know." And I
said, "Yes, sir."
>> You got any questions?
>> Yeah. Yeah. If I got Yeah.
>> I'm sorry. Yeah. Well,
>> if you got questions, how rude.
>> Yeah, they don't they don't care, man.
>> They Yeah. No, I know. I get it.
>> They really don't care.
>> But God. And I So, and then they just
left. So, here I am, you know, putting
my stuff back on. My clothes are still
wet from the bath I took in the sink.
You know, I'm thinking, how much more
this am I going? The nurse was gone, but
those OSI guys were gone, too. There was
nobody out there. So, I was really
literally by myself. off and I walked
out the way I came in and in the hallway
there was a driver for the commander's
vehicle. So I saw him and he was just he
was an airman airman first I think and
I didn't even say anything to him. I
just walked out and got in the backseat
of the vehicle and I said I remember
saying some I don't know what that was
all about but they didn't tell me a damn
thing and he didn't say anything at all.
Drove me back to to the SATA building
got out. He made sure I went to the
commander's office too. It seemed like
they wanted to really watch everything
that I did where I went, you know, in in
going to these different to those
places, whether it be over to the
examination area with the flight
surgeons and then back to the
commander's office. They didn't want to
lose sight of me or something. So, I go
back in and I got to do the formal
report in again now. And all them all
those people are staged back in there.
This is a spectacle.
And uh
so I go back in and report in
Colonel Breaker.
He doesn't really tell me to stand at
ease. I'm standing there at attention
and he he um he says he gives me a a
form
and a pen and he says, "Uh, I'm going
put you in this little conference room
right here." He goes, "I want you to
write everything that's happened to you
and what we've discuss everything." He
says, "I want you to do a full report
from when you first saw this thing to
being picked, everything said from A to
Z to being here." And I said, "Yes,
sir." And I I
you know, I felt that wasn't the easy
part. What I'd gone through already was
the hard part. I still didn't know how I
was going to explain this to my wife and
the two band-aids on me. And mind you, I
should have been in the missile field
three days and come in the morning of
the fourth, come back the morning of the
fourth. Well, I'd only been out one day.
This happened. Now I'm back in one day,
you know, the next day.
And I got band-aids on me. So, this
small just this but the question was
going to be asked and I knew it and I
didn't know how to
answer that. But, so I went in there and
I sat down at this oak desk at the end
of the in these old wooden chairs, oak
chairs. I just try to take a mental
picture of all these things, you know,
because I knew they were going to be
important some way or another. I don't
know. I think to prove myself or
something. So, I I took about the next
hour and a half, maybe more, and I
printed this whole thing. Oh, and any
mistake that you made, you have to line
through the word and put an initial on
it. Know that. So,
so I wrote from A to Z the entire
incident. Michael Johnson's name, the
initi I even knew the time of the uh the
alarm. I mean, everything all the other
information was in the security police
blotter at November control. So that
would be turned in on the fourth day.
Unless it was circumvented, they went
out there and got it. I don't know.
Because each blott when we arrived in
the missile field, and this is what
really gets me, trying to locate Michael
Johnson,
everybody's name, rank, and social
security number is on that security
police blotter. When you first get to
the field, that's an entry that for
every single person on that site, that
information is there. So, that is
somewhere.
And you could locate him by a social
security number. I don't care where he
is. If he pays taxes in this country, we
could find him. But yeah, no, they Arrow
or FBI or anybody else, they've not done
that yet. And I challenge them to do so.
So I write this whole thing up.
It takes me a while. And they're still
out there. They didn't leave. I don't
They're drinking coffee, what they were
talking about, what they're doing. So I
So I go back out there, go back to his
desk, stand in front of an attention,
hand it to him, put it on his desk. He
turns it around. He takes and he's
reading it, looking at it, looking at
it, going through it. I mean, fine tooth
combing. And it's this thing is in
carbon copy. It's a it's three copies,
you know, from from one page. And I and
I had two pages of it. And it's super
super printed small, but because there's
a lot of information there, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> I wasn't given a copy. I wasn't offered
a copy
of anything. And once that was done and
it's signed, I signed it on the bottom.
Had my name, rank, or social security
number. Everything on that form.
He takes it, sits it on his on the side
on his right side on his desk and then
he motions over for uh Captain Jack
Reed. He comes over and he's got a form.
And that's the part where I guess I you
I don't know if we called it a
non-disclosure at that time. But they
read me the riot act and said that
everything said within this confines of
this room and the people that know about
this incident shall not speak about it
to anyone else in any way, fashion or
form, including you know spouses,
brothers, sisters, anybody that only the
people in this room shall know about
this and the people that are involved
with the initial investigation from back
in November control.
And I agreed to it and I said yes sir.
So he turned around, turned it around to
me, and I've read pretty much everything
I just described there. And I signed it
and and put my I signed it, put my name,
rank, and and it was dated and
everything. My social security number
was on it. And um
I wanted to ask, well, do I get a copy
of that? I didn't. They wouldn't give me
a copy of anything. The medical records,
no. no copy of any medical records at
all. So once they were were I guess uh
pleased with what they had
after they read reviewed and they I did
have to go back into the other room
while they talked amongst themselves for
I don't know 10 or 15 minutes. I came
back out
and then I reported back uh to Colonel
Spreer and he said uh you can you can
call you know home or whatever you got
to do to to uh you can go home the rest
of the day. So that gave me, you know,
not only three those three days, but it
gave me an additional three days off,
you know, to just ponder this whole
thing and get this in my mind because I
knew it was going to be people, uh,
especially who, you know, uh, my wife
that I had to explain this to. And then
there, of course, there were friends of
mine that I work with, they're going to
have questions. Well, they weren't even
allowed to ask me questions, you know,
and I didn't see any of them for a long
long period of time cuz they just keep
you separated. And again, they never
sent me back to November control. I went
to Kilo control, which was the alternate
command post. Wing security control is
the command post for all activities in
and around the missile field or or every
all things to do with missiles. In the
event that CSC security control or wing
security control however you want to
call it was compromised then kilo
control stands in as that control
facility and direction because all the
supervision and all the officers reside
at kilo control which is right up next
to the Wyoming border in as a sister
flight to November control.
So they had me there and put me with a
guy named Mark Wade. We had the same
initials.
He was a really nice guy and um he knew
about it and he was the one that I saw
two mutilated cattle with
>> in the Kilo area early one morning about
well about 10:00 a.m. We we had to sleep
on a missile site uh until maintenance
team got there and there was a
an investigation going on with local law
enforcement uh at a corral area where
there were two mutilated cattle and we
stopped and looked at them
>> the missing skin the whole deal
>> trimmed around the mouth area you know
and I didn't know anything about that I
did know about Linda Molton how looking
for him at that time
>> or you know and there was another thing
that I want to say is that when all this
stuff started going on the there was a
that newspaper or the um
everybody can't stand to read
>> or inquir
>> inquir they were they had people going
through all the missile sites not the
sites themselves but Minot Malstrom cuz
you know like what had happened to
Robert Salis you know at Malstrom
>> you know in ' 67 wasn't it 67 and what
had happened at Minot so they had all
these people out trying to gather these
stories and we were told of course we
couldn't talk to anybody.
>> You were told formally.
>> Yeah. You don't speak to anybody any
news media whatsoever. Uh
and they didn't call it news media. They
just said news people at that time. They
didn't have a word for media.
And
so that's where I had to live out the
rest of my stay uh at Ellsworth Air
Force Base was at Kilo Control with Mark
Wade and
which was okay. I just tried to put it
all behind me and think that it would
never happen again, you know, and and it
would all be forgotten about. But still
the fact always remained that
for weeks I worried about not doing my
job. Was I going to be article 15 or
what was going to happen to me which
didn't happen? And then
>> what's article 15? That's uh under the
uniform code of military justice where
they see that you've done something you
know unscrupulous or illegal or you did
some you just did anything that they
don't approve of and you caused damage
or hurt you know there's many of things
your hair can be touched in your ear and
a commander see you and
you know you're out of 3510 standards
you know like you can't have that beard
you can't have this and they can article
15 you suspend your rank for 6 months
take $600 or $800 from you or more and
it just, you know, you don't make that
much money anyway. I mean, they make a
lot more now than we did that.
>> They use that threat quite regularly,
right?
>> All the time. Yes, sir. Mhm.
>> That's how they that's how they keep you
in check.
>> Yeah.
>> Your mess with your pension, mess with
your rank, mess with your clearances,
>> everything. Everything. they you know
they
um but anyway uh about 15 18 days later
I was at home in my apartment
still wondering the whole time Chris
where where is Michael Johnson? I wanted
to speak to that man so badly I couldn't
tell you. And all of a sudden, I got
this feeling
and a knock came upon my door and my I
lived we lived at Hannesway Apartments
in Rapid City and he had talked to some
guys back in the barracks about where I
lived and sure enough he came to my
apartment to talk to me about it. And
before he arrived that knock when it
came on the door, I knew it was him.
Don't have a clue how I've never been to
my apartment before. I'd never met him
personally like that in civilian
clothes. So I open the door and I said,
"Michael," I said, "Man, how are you?"
He said, 'I'm okay. And with a direct
look in my eyes, he said, "We got to
talk about this thing."
And I said, "Yes, we do." I said, "Come
on in." So he came in just a simple one
bedroom apartment. And uh
my wife was there and I said I said,
"Well, she's going to find I said she
suspects some things about what's I've
been having to go back to the base." And
there was several times I had to go back
and answer more questions, you know, but
I tried to block those out and it was
the same thing. They just kept trying to
see if there was something I wasn't
telling them, which there was and I
wasn't about to tell them anyway.
And uh so he comes in and I said, "Let's
draw what we saw." I said, I I gave him
a, you know, a yellow notepad and I had
one, too. And I said, "I'm going to sit
here. You sit there." And I think I put
him at the dining room table and I sat
at the coffee at the coffee table and at
my couch and I drew the craft and all
that and all that. And he drew the same
thing. He he remembered the bright
lights. He remembered many things that I
didn't even think he was aware of. And I
told him, you know, the state that he
was in holding on to that steering
wheel. And I remember him saying
something like, "No, I wasn't." I said,
"Yes, you were." I said, "Dar, and I had
to pull your hands off of that steering
wheel." "You did?" I said, "Yeah."
>> What was his memory of it?
>> Well, he said that he heard, saw, and
smelled everything that I did. And then
he heard, "Do not fear. Do not fear."
>> Did he see the beings?
>> No, he didn't.
>> Cuz he didn't turn his head.
>> Yeah. He didn't say that.
>> But he felt the do not fear.
>> Yeah. Who Who said this first? Was it
you or him?
>> Him. He told you before you told him.
>> Yes.
>> So he's opening up to you and he's he's
giving you the exact same things. Yes.
That you experienced and he said and I
felt do not fear.
>> And yes, do not fear. Do not fear.
>> What was your reaction to that, Mario?
>> I stood there with my mouth open. I
said, "You're kidding me." I said, "Man,
I was freaking out." I said, "You were
just frozen to the steering wheel." He
goes, "I heard." He goes, "I heard and
saw." He goes, "I saw everything." I
said, "Did you see what was on the right
side?" No, he never saw that.
>> You told him?
>> Yes, I told him. What was his reaction
to that?
>> He didn't really have one. He just
suspected it, but he didn't. I guess it
was the angle or something. You know, my
right side and his left side. I don't
know. But he said one thing that floored
me, man.
To the pits of my stomach. He said, "But
I remember your glove on a shiny floor."
And I said, "What? What are you talking
about? A glove on the shiny floor?"
I had a really specialized pair of
gloves that a B-52 bomber pilot gave me
my first couple of nights when I was at
Ellsworth when I first was assigned
there and I was staying in the BAQ which
is like the onbase hotel and the rooms
there are not single rooms they're like
shared with bunk beds there might be 10
or 15 people in there one night all come
to the base or there may be one person
in there or you know that kind of thing
whoever's arriving usually stays there
until there's an assignment you know or
until their rooms are assigned to them
and they meet their commanders and
people in their depart in their
divisions the next mo the next day
literally
and uh so he gave me a pair of these
aviators gloves Chris that came up to
about right here now on and fit on the
outside of your parka but they were like
a mitten they covered three fingers then
you had your index finger for trigger
control for your whatever your trigger
was in an aircraft or on a weapon and
they had a fur backing and they were
like a yellow gold color glove
>> my dad had the same You can't even find
them today. I hunted everywhere for
them.
>> And uh
>> yeah, I remember as a kid we'd wear them
and we'd just wipe the snot off our face
with the uh you know with the furry side
of it in the cold.
>> Well, that's what it's for, too. It's
it's for that. You just wash it off once
in a while. Or maybe not.
>> But
I remember your glove on a shiny floor.
I had no recollection of a shiny floor.
I said, "What are you even talking
about, dude? Michael, what are you
talking about?"
And he goes, "I'm telling you, Mario,
your glove was laying he he said it was
laying face up this way. Your right-hand
glove was was laying on a shiny floor."
And I said, "Well," I said, "The only
thing I knew to do, I ran to my bedroom
where I kept my Diddy bag in the closet
cuz my wife didn't want to see it.
It had to be put away." So, I grabbed my
diddy bag and I came back out in the
living room. the whole time. And this
woman's just sitting over. She's sitting
in one of the upright chairs just
watching this and listening to all this
going on.
I don't know in disbelief or what it
was, but
I unzipped that bag, man. And there's,
you know, there's underwear, there's
toiletries, there's all kind of stuff,
extra uniforms, there's a radio in there
that you couldn't have cameras,
unfortunately. That's one thing they
wouldn't allow us to do. And uh or take
pictures of anything on the cider or
something like that. But so I just
dumped my bag out on the couch.
Everything was there except my right
hand glove. Left-hand glove was there.
No right hand glove. Never recovered
that. So I guess they kept it or whoever
whatever kept it. But I couldn't believe
he brought that up and he said that to
me. I saw your glove on a shiny floor.
That's proof. Yeah. He um he lived in
the barracks like I say and uh he gave
me his address that day, his parents
address in Chicago, Illinois and we
talked you know talked radio he said he
you know he loved to fish and we talked
about some things like that things we
didn't get to talk about working
together we didn't get to discuss any of
that stuff and usually we all as guys we
always do you know and like motorcycles
or you know you ride a bicycle or you
skateboard you play you know whatever
you might do weightlift whatever we
didn't get to talk about any of that,
but we got to talk about a little bit of
it that day. So, I wrote it down on a on
a a nice index card, something, and I
put it in my Bible that the pastor gave
me when my father passed away, and I
kept it up on a dresser, and I had it
for years, for years, and he wrote it.
He wrote it.
I might have recopied it or something,
but he I had all the I had his
information.
I wish I'd had his social security
number. And and you know, back in that
time, a guy would probably give you your
social security number and not think two
things about it. You know, you can't do
that today, of course, but back then it
could have done that. I wish I'd have
had something else I could have latched
on to him later in years because that
those thoughts have always been in my
mind. What else could I have done to,
you know, to wrangle him to get him back
in? If he's still alive, wherever he may
be, he's the other half of this whole
thing, you know, wherever he is.
regardless of who's entwined in this
history, he's the other half of this
that I've just got to find. Uh I got a
friend Steve Zwimkkey and he's in Rapid
City and uh he's the fellow that led me
to the state trooper uh that took the
call from wing security control to come
and look for us. And that's perhaps
something else I should address because
I didn't even find that out until uh
that Discovery Plus in 2021.
>> How long after the initial incident when
you blacked out was that call made?
>> Well, it was made approximately 2:00 in
the morning.
>> So, not too long after. So, you were
missing at that point.
>> Yeah, we were missing. And not only
that, but Wing Security Control had
contacted um the uh local law
enforcement in Sturgis. They had a
larger police force and they sent two
deputies 30 mi north to where we were
located looking for us. So, we had a
state trooper and two deputies in two
different cars looking for us.
>> And if you're out there, you'll see
somebody if they're driving the car,
you'll eventually see headlights.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You absolutely. There's
There's no way around it.
>> You were You were just not there.
>> Mm-m. And we were so far off the off the
road but
behind New Lake Reservoir Dam to start
with. I mean that we just had to be
located and the only way to locate us
was that radio signaling triangulation.
>> Who knows where you were before that?
>> Don't know. Uh, but
what I was getting at, I didn't find
that out until 21 that these officers
by the son of of this of the state
trooper,
his son came to November 5 or 100 yards
down from November 5 because the
producer didn't want to stand where our
vehicle was located because there's a
cattle uh some type of a red and white
um cattle production or storage facility
on the on the site now at November 5.
Uh they do that because there's a rock
bed there and they keep their hay and
stuff up off the ground, you know, out
of the when they're feeding their
feeding their cattle and stuff cuz it's
all ranching area. But uh
so in essence we had uh
about 11 people looking for us and I
never knew that. I was never told that a
state trooper and two deputies were
looking for us as well.
>> You found out in what what year? I think
it was 2021 when we went out there with
Discovery Plus and it was total by total
by total accident that they these these
two guys even showed up watching this
film on the side of the road like
>> and they knew your story.
>> Yeah. They had seen it somewhere before
or something. I'm really not sure. Or
one of them had. And he told the other.
But it was a crazy thing on Orman Road.
Uh dirt road. And you can go all the way
to Wyoming on that road I believe.
Um there was a parade of people because
you know New is such a small town. The
population today is 650. It was 2:30 at
the time. And uh when they found out
that it was a film crew out there
filming on Orman Road. So we get this
big parade of people coming by and there
was one guy that drove by in a pickup
truck and he had 2x4s in the in an old
pickup truck in the in the little slots,
you know, that's on the bed of the
pickup truck around it. and he had
chicken wire around it and he had a
horse standing up in the middle in the
back of that pickup truck and we all
just looked at that and went, "Wow." You
know, it's
such a place, man. It's is such a place
there. You think there's other people in
Newell
that saw the craft?
>> I hope there is. And and what we thought
that um
>> there's a there's a case in Newell
though in like the 60s as well, right?
>> Um not sure. I think I read I think I
read about a flying saucer sighting,
multiple flying saucers in the 60s in
New
>> and in I will tell you in uh
uh Sturgis there is and Deadwood.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Big cylinder type Okay.
>> craft and in both of those areas
>> prior to your
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> But going back to that um I was so
amazed when I found out that these guys
knew that that this took place. I just I
just feel so jilted by the the way the
Air Force ended up by what they did and
um or how they did it. I don't think
they knew any better. I I really don't.
And if they did, if they did, then a
shame on them for for treating their own
people like that, you know, because
>> when you go in the military, regardless
of what job you're in, you you know,
you're there, there there's a chance
that somewhere along the line that you
could be involved in some kind of combat
action and lose your life cuz you're
fighting for this country and the people
in it because you care about them. I do.
I still do. I took the oath and now it's
never gone away from me. I'd um I'd go
back today if they'd had me at 70 years
old in a heartbeat. But just to find
those things out, it it really floored
me. And that that glove on that shiny
floor, I've never forgotten that
statement. I've never forgotten the the
the ice bullet that he sent out when he
said that to me. I was just I just it
just took me a back and
uh I just wish so so badly that we could
find him. Well, if anyone if this rings
a bell, if your family member is named
Michael Johnson, if you've got a grandpa
out there, a father, an uncle, a cousin
that's in perhaps the Detroit area or at
least has family in the Detroit area and
served in the Air Force at Ellsworth in
the 70s, late 70s, mid to late 70s. Um,
reach out to us, figure it out. I got an
email here. Um, I would love any
information you have on this, even if
it's the tiniest bit of information, but
this is the internet and you know,
luckily
with you know, you on here and and
people watching like there is a chance
>> Yeah.
>> that you can get an answer to this
>> always just anything anything I I just
want to know about him whether he says I
don't want to talk to you or or I don't
want to come forward. It kind of reminds
me of Terry Love Lace and Toby, his
partner, you know, and Toby did not take
it well at all from what Terry's told me
and and ended up costing him his life,
you know, whether it be from
>> he he had a problem afterwards. And it's
very hard to um to contend with and it's
and it's very difficult for people that
care about you
to hear about it and to and to
experience it because it affects you
every day. I'm not the I'm not the same
person at home that I am here telling
telling you this. You know, I'm this
thing affects me all the time. There's I
watch stuff on the news. I I watch
stuff, you know, on on uh TV or YouTube
videos, you know, about people that I
know that it that things like this have
happened to. And it's all going
somewhere. And I think
I feel at this point of the game that
archaeology and what's being discovered
in in say for instance Egypt I think I
think there's a lot to be said for and
the in the correlation of all this
coming together in some way and I don't
know if we'll if our government or any
government will ever
say okay this is what we have throw it
out on the table here's this piece
here's that piece we glean this
information and that engine came from
this piece right here. That happened.
This happened. Here's an individual.
Here's different types of individuals. I
just don't see them saying that. I think
the only way that could ever happen is
if they in turn, they themselves just
make themselves known and just shut
everybody else up. Just say, "Here we
are. What you going to do now?" And and
I don't think they're coming here to
harm us. And I think they've been here a
long time already and know everything
about us.
>> Well, let's talk about them for a
second. Mhm.
>> Um, you ended up getting regressed
hypnotically by Bob Upton and Ivonne
Smith, was it?
>> Uh, yeah, that was uh with John Yeah.
John Butch's boat in Yeah.
>> at two separate two separate occasions.
Now,
>> you know what's interesting about this
is a
like many people and I've I've I've been
able to actually hypnotize people
through you like entertainment purposes
as a magician. like I've dabbled there
and I've studied it and I have friends
who do it professionally for
entertainment. It's very real. It's very
and and for someone who I know the
feeling because I've seen it happen to
people so many times. The feeling of oh
you you can't hypnotize me. I've seen
firsthand and I've you know part par
parttook in this firsthand.
>> Yes. um
those people getting hypnotized. Uh and
and and it is
>> it is quite shocking to people,
especially people who don't really
believe in hypnosis,
>> right,
>> to watch someone you know and trust and
love and understand be hypnotized.
Absolutely. You see that it changes you.
It changes you go, "Oh, wait a second.
He just hit an off switch on him. That's
so strange." So you and I say this
because I I want to preface. You were
that person. You were like, I don't not
for me.
>> That's right.
>> Yeah. Could you tell us what happened?
>> Yeah. Um,
Robert Upton, uh, Bob Upton, he, um,
he was trying to zoom into specific
items or points of interest that Robert
Hastings had put forth and uh,
in hypnotizing me.
And the way he did it, it just seemed as
if I was if as if I was going to sleep.
And I remember it cuz they were roofing
my house. Excuse me. Just after a
hurricane, they were re-roofing my
house. I had damage.
This is at your home.
>> At my home. Yeah. In my in my back
bedroom.
So, you could hear all these guys with
nail guns and walking across the roof.
And even though my roof my roof was very
high on my home, you could still hear
it. And I thought, well, there's no way
you're going to be able to hypnotize me
with all this noise going on. And that
that hadn't been planned. He had set it
up for that particular day. I think he
drew up drove up from Jacksonville.
I live in Brunswick. And um
there may have been may have been
further away than that. I can't remember
uh yet or I just don't recall. But so
anyway, but all this stuff going on,
he somehow manages to get me to thinking
I'm going down a stairwell or something.
He said into the water.
And I kept thinking about that noise
correlation to going down a stairway and
you know, like there's a couple of
places I've been in my life like in
springs and stuff where you walk down a
stairwell into the stairway into the
water. uh like blue sinks and some of
those places.
And that's what I did. And and before I
knew it, I was smelling that smell
and visualizing, you know, certain
things that he was asking me questions
about. And he was guiding me, you know,
in this. And there were things that I
came up against, visions that I saw.
Uh
that really really upset me.
>> Are they coming to you now?
>> Yeah.
Um,
I answered all of his questions. It was
very difficult because I had like a lot
closer reaction
or proximity
to what was on the right side of our
vehicle to these to these beings on the
right side of the vehicle. I mean, I
literally
there goes my heartbeat, but um
>> Okay, so he was in control.
>> That little thing was on other side of
the vehicle. That little craft was on
the other side of the vehicle
>> where Michael was.
>> And what was Michael doing?
>> He was still like straight ahead. I
don't even think he could blink his
eyes.
Okay.
>> Was in a couple of within a couple of
feet of of them. They were within a
couple of feet of me and I was on my
back
and I had a whole lot of pain in this
riff right here. My hand was turned
outward like this. And I was being
grappled in some way here
from this direction.
And something something was putting
pressure down in inside of my wrist
here.
A tall one was doing that to my right
wrist.
There. It's like in-n-out glimpses of a
of a living nightmare.
And that smell, that smell just it just
permeate just goes through you and you
can't you can't uh you can't get rid of
it.
I I knew that I knew there was something
wrong with me because um it seems as if
it seems as if you come up to a you come
up to a a a veil of I want to call it a
veil like there's something in front of
you
that stops you from looking past it
that uh
extremely excites
I don't know. I don't want to call it
fear,
but it's something. It's something that
you have to get past to see what's on
the other side, though. And that's why I
call it a veil. And when I did,
I felt like I shook myself apart. I felt
like I was just shaking shaking apart
inside.
And somehow another, I managed to get
myself into aphib. I'd never had that
before. Never knew what it was. Never
never had any kind of heart issues
whatsoever.
And uh I remember he kept telling me
that, you know, nothing could harm me,
nothing could harm me. But believe me,
where I was, everything was harming me
or trying to. And then I didn't I
couldn't I couldn't understand
what I was really experiencing.
And
I guess after about 45 minutes or so and
I answered every question he said, I
went through every question that he
asked me. I went I answered everything
as the best I could. But that veil
persisted and when I broke that when I
went through that veil as I feel as if I
did
and saw what I saw and still see it
right now, even looking at you, I still
see it just like it can just push over a
vision and I just see. I just see
I just thought my heart was going to
come out of my chest. At no time could
you hear any of the stuff going on on my
roof or anything like that that was all
the stuff all the noise that was taking
place up there and all the work that was
being done
and he he got to a point where he felt
as if he had to he had to get me out of
it.
I'd answered everything he asked me. And
when he brought when he brought me up, I
knew there was something wrong. But I
did tell him one thing
that that I think surprised him. And I
told him, I said, "Those big the the
those big dark eyes that these the
little ones have,
they're shields. They're not um they're
not their eyes. It's a shield that's
that uh shields them from bright light
because their eyes I saw a round pupil
about that big around is huge. What
color?
>> Blue,
light blue.
A medium blue. Not light or dark blue,
but just a medium blue. And I And I saw
it plain as day. I mean, right there in
my face. And that's the thing with um
with hypnosis, how it what it can how it
can do. Uh I guess how it can bring a
vision to you like that.
>> Was that the tall one?
>> No, that was a short one that had the
eye thing. The the tall ones are
completely different.
>> And the fear came comes from that tall
guy.
Whether it's a guy or whatever, I don't
know. But that's what the fear is. And
still the little the little ones don't
make you have that kind of fear. But
that big one did and that tall one did.
That big one, you think that he's got
ready to eat you or something and then a
damn thing you can do about it. You
don't have any control of yourself. You
have no functionality of your own body.
You can't defend yourself
>> structurally.
And then the I think of I think there
was a uh there was a male the one that
was uh that I cussed at or whatever I
said that I was um
>> You cussed at it?
>> Told me I told him he's hurt me, you
know. And uh
>> and you couldn't move.
>> Yeah. And the other thing was
the uh this table that that I was on.
For instance,
that's my head. This is the table that I
felt.
And I got to draw this just right. But
looking at it
in this way,
this was like some type of a field
that was projected this way over my body
and my my hand was up through it like
this.
And they reaching down into this like
some type of a
psychic veil or something or
I I guess on the crack cuz it's as if my
hands in their atmosphere and I'm in my
own atmosphere.
>> Mhm.
>> But something that you could be pulled
in and out of or parts of your body
moved in and out of.
>> Was it invisible or was it
>> blue? A blue hue like a Yeah. I mean,
it's not it'd be just like something
opaque or
>> No, it's
>> like glass or gas or
>> projected almost some something that
like a field generated in and uh
and you are you're inside of it. But you
know what he was doing? What if it ended
up being a female? I heard a female
voice. But
>> you heard a voice.
>> Yeah. Just
>> in your ears,
>> you know, in my body.
>> And it was female.
>> It was a female. It was a female voice.
We're not, you know, not hurting you or
we're not hurting you or something like
that. I I I don't know the exact verb.
We're not hurting you or we're not
hurting you.
>> They never moved their mouths.
They talk to you inside.
They talk to a gel or something. They
talk to something that they put in you.
>> It resonates.
>> And then I was I was cussing and that's
what I remember about that.
>> You were you you were yelling,
physically yelling.
>> I don't know if I was yelling, but I was
cussing
>> cuz I was hurting.
>> Yeah.
>> I was afraid and I was hurting.
>> There's a lot of pain. Do you think do
you think the pain was fear induced or
do you think that it was like real pain?
Like
>> real it was real pain
>> burning real pain in my in that wrist
and I always think about that right now
my hands I don't know if that has
anything to do with anything.
Uh my hands are completely numb
and uh
there's other things going on. I do have
two marks on my body
besides those burns. I have two marks.
Both of them. One's under my left arm,
the other's on my left ankle. I sent you
pictures of those also. And uh
>> I I don't have answers for of it, you
know. I really don't. And people can say
or think what they want, but I I only
know what I experienced and what I've
gone through. And it's been 48 years ago
for me. But there's there's so much
more. There's so much more to the whole
thing that is it's it's uh
sometimes just it's just very difficult
to to arrange it all to to to tell it.
It it just and recalling things like
this sometimes more comes back than what
I went in with. You know, I pick up more
than than I first started with.
>> And you got to process that.
Yeah.
>> Did you
see Michael?
>> Yeah. And with um Yvon
with Yvon Smith um he was laying
opposite to me in in a direction like he
was facing the opposite direction which
I was. And when I talk about this little
the little guy with the blue eyes,
he was between both of us. And there was
a hand on me right here. And I don't
know if that was for a calming effect,
but I'm shaking like hell about it right
now. But I don't know what that And mind
you, this is hypnosis is extremely,
you know, speculative.
And uh I have never ever said that I've
been abducted. I've never said that cuz
I don't know that for real. I only know
what visions came into my mind and
through hypnosis, but I don't recollect
physically of ever being abducted. I
know I've had close proximity and I know
I've smelled them. I know I've seen
them,
but that's as far as I'll go with that.
>> I understand.
>> Yeah. Yvon Smith, she's very good at
what she does. And I think the that's
when I learned different things in this
hypnosis with uh about Michael and about
seeing
the visions that I've seen because and
that don't even include the dreams that
all this that comes with all of this
from from the very beginning from within
a couple of days of after this whole
things happened you know
>> dreams of them or dreams of other things
>> apocalyptic type things, tidal waves,
desert underwater,
uh, uh, earthquakes,
the sun,
blast from the sun,
there things that you nuclear explosions
you I mean, I've even felt the heat from
a dream in a nuclear explosion. I've
even felt the heat from from a blast of
you know that would be you'd be
vaporized of course but
I've done that and uh felt that
but she when she hypnotized me
we were on uh we were on the water on a
large boat on a large craft
and it was and would on the dock were
seals
and uh in in LA right there by by Long
beach and um
they were so loud like barking dogs on
an aluminum on an aluminum those
aluminum floating docks they have there.
And that was the night we we we had um
that was a super cold night we had or
they had in Los Angeles when it snowed
even on the Hollywood signs. There was
snow and ice. I mean, it went from I
don't even know what the temperature was
when I first arrived there, but it got
cold as I don't know what, man. And then
that was when we finished um that night,
Age of Disclosure, when I finished
filming that and and it was work cuz I
had to fly out the next day. So, I went
with with uh John Blitch and then uh
Yavon came down to to do this hypnosis
for us. And uh
but I think being overwater had a
greater effect than being than laying on
a bed on, you know, in a home in a you
know on concrete versus directly over
water because
>> relaxing.
>> Yeah. It was a lot different. Seemed
like it was more conductive and her
questions were just crisp and clear.
There was no
there wasn't anything that was shrouding
them in any way, you know, that it it uh
it just was a whole lot easier for some
reason. And I was afraid of of Aphib
again because I' I've been in it uh a
couple of times now. Just happens and it
just happened from that first initial
time. then
uh with Bob Upton then to her but I
anyway I had a pill and she she was we
didn't record it we she verball we u
recorded the audio we didn't have any
kind of ability to record it you know
live but um or on camera
and she had this I had this pill uh my
doctor had given me amiadone I think is
what it's called and he told me if I
ever felt symptoms of Ahib Dr.
Strickland did to take one of these. So
I had it with me and she had it in her
hand the whole time about melted it
away. It was okay though. And um she's
super nice lady and we've talked several
times back back then. But
some of those visions are are are
almost indescribable
the things that uh that have seen, you
know, as far as like dreams go or
apocalyptic stuff. And I just hope none
of that ever happens.
>> Do you think that's from them showing
that to you?
>> I don't know. I don't know where else
could it could have come from other than
that. I don't know if if they put things
in your mind to maybe push you in one
direction or to think of a cure for
something or
>> were you were you shown anything on the
craft by them
>> according to the hypnotic regressions
and not to your conscious memory?
A room with old things in it like an old
I sent you a drawing of that old box TV.
An old uh rod iron iron.
>> Yeah.
>> Pole lights that go from the floor to
the ceiling. It was like a room of
antiques. And I was allowed to go in
this room and on the back wall there's a
there was a round window and it had a
slice taken out of it. like it was just
a slice taken out of a out of a round
circle. That was a that was a window.
And I was told I could go look out this
window
by a small one by by a small grave.
>> You were told in your head.
>> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> I was still in my head and I'm I'm I'm
kind of laughing about it. I'm I'm think
what are all these old things in here
for? You know, this old box TV and a Oh,
and a old wooden radio, you know, like
real old. And uh
but I was I wouldn't look out the
window. I was too afraid. And then I
started noticing things around me
cuz I was allowed to stay for just a a
few minutes or so. And even the walls
and the baseboards were powered.
Everything in it was was was like alive.
The shelving had lights in it much like
but your couch like those kind of
lights. Everything had lights in it. Was
touchable, was energized.
everything. There was nothing that was,
you know, stagnant like um like that
wall right there. It was all
It all had something. It all had energy.
>> Yeah. All had energy. Everything
>> even in the antique room.
>> Uh not the items themselves, but what
where they were. Yes. All of it.
>> The shelving, the the supports. And and
then as I left there, as I was left led
out of there by a little guy, I'm
walking in this hallway and it's all
alive and an open area opens up, a vast
open area that's just huge. And there's
just like thousands of them and and
uh like those lights right there, just
thousands of them up in these little
cubicles as as far as you could see. and
and right and left and up and down. It
was just everybody was like ants having
a job or something. And I just kept
following him and I and then I turned
left into a room
and the room was full of steam and I
followed him in there. He vanished in
the steam and I followed in there and I
woke up
>> and I don't know what I don't know what
that was but you know hypnosis again
it's is a strange thing and dreams are a
strange I dream some really some really
crazy dreams sometimes
>> when when you think back to the memories
or the
visions that you got during your
regression
do they feel similar similar to the
dreams you had or do they feel more
similar to seeing the beings beside your
truck?
>> It Oh, it feels real.
>> It feels more like the ladder.
>> It feels more like the ladder. Yeah,
that's a good question. Never asked that
before. There's sometimes when I can
when I go to sleep, I can go back into
that same part of that dream and
continue on if that's a dream
>> in that big room.
>> Yeah. All of it. I mean, in smell,
>> was the smell present in that room as
well? Was it all
>> It was, but it wasn't as as pungent. It
was just there. Maybe I'd had more time
in it or something and gotten more used
to it.
>> Got more used to it. Makes sense.
>> That's the way I I have to I have to
straighten these things in my mind, you
know. I I if not, you just might as well
go lock me up somewhere, I guess. You
know, and and you know what I want
people to understand is that it's uh
if you have a loved one at home and you
and you live and and partake in this
field, you have to be
uh very aware of how it affects them.
And uh I never meant to put anybody
through anything that's happened to me,
you know, or to,
you know, to I'm not an expert in any of
this in any way. But I never I've never
meant to
like upset
my wife or,
you know, like my wife now, she didn't
deserve any of this. I didn't tell her
till 1995. And I just I just ate it and
lived with it until I didn't have a
clearance anymore, a Q clearance. That's
when when I lost my job at Y12 facility
or actually I was at K25 at that time
when the big layoffs were occurring. And
that's what happened to me. I went out
with about 10,000 people, believe it or
not. There was that many people in the
Oakidge area. And all of them at one
time Oakidge had more PhDs there than
any other place in the country. And now
they have all moved in there or in Los
Alamos. And uh
I can't understand how they took Sean
Kurpatre over to OL. That just blows my
mind
where I came from. There he There he is
now. I just I wish I could one day I'll
have a chat with him. But
that was really bad how Arrow did that
whole thing in that first set of
interviews they did with people. Well,
you um you testified Yeah. in for era.
>> 4 hours and 19 minutes.
>> Four hours and 19 minutes. And you said
what you said to me.
>> Everything. And then probably some, too.
Yeah. And of course, it's it's under
oath, per se. Yeah. As as they read you
a whole lit lit of things that you have
to agree to before you ever do it.
>> And of course, it was always the talk
about Congress and that kind of thing.
But
>> sure,
>> it's like one guy told me, he said,
"They're not ready to talk about what
you saw out that right side of that
window or any of your dreams or
hypnosis, which I wouldn't talk about
that anyway. I want I can only talk
about what in the physical conscious
world that I saw, smelled, and
experienced."
>> Still too much.
>> Yeah. They can't do
>> They want to light in the sky.
>> Yeah. They just want to light in the sky
at a far distance.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, that's one thing I I kind of
>> But that's not, you know, your fault.
>> No.
>> You know what I mean? Like that's
>> you you out of all this are like such a
brave person for stepping forward for
talking about this knowing full well
full well you know what some people
might think and like there's there's no
good reason
>> to talk about this stuff
>> for anyone coming out being reluctant
like I get it you know what I mean like
and you get it more than anyone like
yeah what's the point of coming out if
the very people who are supposed to
fight for transparency are the ones
denying.
>> Yes.
>> Denying flat out that there is any
correlation between these nuclear bases
and the UFOs.
>> Like even even that which is so far from
where we are with this story. They're
not even willing to go there. Like the
you know it's it's kind of this it's
aggravating and it must be aggravating
for you.
>> It is. It's the same people
that told you, "If we have questions,
we'll call you."
>> Yes.
>> What do you mean if you have questions?
>> If you have questions,
>> what about me? Like, what about you?
We're who's answering those freaking
questions? Like, this is unbelievable.
>> The the best part about all that, they
call you and they get you on the phone
for an hour, two hours, interview you on
the phone. There's two or three of them,
and they tell you there's only one guy,
>> which is BS. One of the best books
that's helped me is Out of Time by Steve
Aspen. you I know you know who he is and
he just wrote a second book and I can't
I can't recall the title right now. I've
got it in my in my bag in there and I've
been reading on it.
There is such a correlation with this in
time and and his book has helped me to
think about this because I think that
time was displaced where I was or in
that vehicle. However humans can
understand that I honestly felt that
there was some
something to do with time and how they
did what they did, the time in which
they do it, but they understand that
much better than I. But he he he brought
he's brought about a lot of really good
ideas
and and and and findings in in his book
out of time which which I um which I
which
I have found a whole lot of correlations
in his book as the way I feel and what I
think about
the um
the other thing is that
when Arrow does these interviews, and I
don't think they're going to be doing
them like they did before. I think it's
gone way above that now. I just don't
think they have the credibility any
longer to talk to anybody because a lot
of us felt pretty jilted by that whole
by that whole thing. You know,
not only do they want you to testify if
they call you before Congress, they want
you to pay your own way up there, pay
your own hotel bill and everything and
all associated expenses. Like you just
got an extra, you can just go to DC. You
know how expensive DC is? You can just
go there with three or four extra
thousand dollars that you've got laying
around to testify before people are just
going to look at you and say laugh at
you or whatever they're going to do. I
don't know. But
I I sometimes worry
that that you can say too much
because
I I just I just want the truth to be
told. I don't want any embellishments. I
don't want any type of guessing. I don't
want any type of uh
information concerning myself to be put
out there that's not something that I
said, did, or or adhere to. And I've had
several times where things have been
said that I didn't say or that I didn't
do.
And and it it just really bothers me
that
you know and the reason I bring this up
is because one of the guys one of the
guys at Arrow that interviewed me or I
wouldn't know it was Congress
that interviewed me to go before
Congress
uh kind of made fun of me and said and I
I have his name and his phone number and
everything and I I just I I kind of said
something to him that that uh I hope it
resonated with him
He said, "Um,
well, just keep doing." He said, "Just
keep doing what you're doing." He says,
"And we'll let you know when we'd like
to hear from you something." And that's
after we spent two and a half hours on
the telephone. My my time is as
valuable, if not more, to me than it is
than, you know, than to him. I I think,
man, where where do you think you you're
coming from by talking like that to
people? And that's why a lot of people
don't don't want to do that. Don't want
to go before Congress or or whatever.
But
>> I think what you're doing here will
resonate on a deeper level with the
people listening
>> than watching it on a C-SPAN feed.
>> Yeah, I do.
>> I mean, I I uh I appreciate that. I I I
just uh I just want to do the right
thing. I just I want answers and as as
everybody else wants answers and I'm not
trying to put down anybody else to
obtain those answers. I only know what
happened to me and to Michael Johnson
more or less until he comes forward and
that's all I know to relay. You know
everything else people are putting out
some brilliant publications and books on
the subject matter. So that's increased
everybody's knowledge and we'll and
we'll continue to do so. And I'm I'm
just looking forward to the future and
just where this is all going because if
if we can just get 10% of the technology
that I've seen in my lifetime with with
these beings and these craft,
we wouldn't have polluted skies and
polluted grounds and polluted waters and
plastic polluting everything. And
maybe we could just be a better society.
Perhaps we'd have better answers and
there wouldn't be as much violence. It
wouldn't be a whole lot of things, but
people would have purpose,
you know, whether it be a job and a new
technology because it it'll be
all-encompassing when it when it finally
does make its way because mankind will
shift in my humble opinion
when those kind of energies are
discovered. And if the powers that be
are not corrupt and self- serving and
enlightens the rest of the world with
it, think of the potential that we have
as a planet and as a civilization to
move forward.
You know, the things that are going to
be discovered in Egypt,
I I I do think they were a class one
civilization prior to whatever happened
happened 12,500 years ago, whatever
calamity took place. I think we were I
think they were a class one civilization
and we're not there yet.
>> Well, by the time this comes out, you'll
have already gone to Egypt.
>> Mhm. Next month.
>> How excited are you?
>> I'm I'm I can't contain myself to jump
out of my skin now.
>> Yeah. Our friend uh Amar Omar is, you
know, just such a generous
>> He is, man.
>> Soul. He's the kindest person I know.
and he's he's got just the heart of a
saint and he's really
>> truly
>> in it for selfless reasons and to help
uplift the world into this new sort of
era and we need soldiers like him on our
side. We need more of them. There are
too few of that that man
>> and uh he is offered to after hearing
your story take you to Egypt to fly you
out
>> my mind and that's where his family's
from. He's got a wild history with
Egypt.
>> I can't wait to I can't wait to meet
>> Did you see him skydive over the uh over
the
>> pyramids? Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um Yeah.
>> That's That's Coahonies, man. Because
you probably got in trouble for that.
>> I'm I'm kind of sad that I'm not going
because I wanted to go and I'd spoken to
Amar about going. I spoken to you about
going as well.
>> Um I'll be on tour at that moment. But
you know, if anything happens and the
tour doesn't happen or what for whatever
reason, I'm there.
>> Man, that would be wonderful. I'm 100%
there. Um
>> I I if not just to witness your
relationship with Egypt because I know
that
>> you know you speak about it and it's
it's you know it's hard to
it's hard to talk about these things.
It's hard enough to talk about these
things. You know, I get your reluctance
in not wanting to, you know, go fullon
into all of these conspiracies or what
cuz you have to keep some reality.
>> Yeah, you have to
>> cuz cuz otherwise your story is just
going to get confabulated and get
twisted and so you got to you got to
stay grounded. But
>> you got to stay on course, man. Just
keep your ship on course. Let the rest
do what they will.
>> But I want to see the kid inside you.
>> I want to see that. I want to see you
light up when you see Egypt. So
hopefully Amar is able to capture that.
>> My god, I don't I and I, you know, he
said he had to have um
camera equipment. You had to have like a
uh 90day
pass or or some kind of prerequisite or
you had to fill out paperwork before you
could even go there to film.
>> Oh, it's extremely strict.
>> I had no idea.
>> There's also the museum.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to museum.
>> Oh my gosh, it looks so amazing.
>> I did get to see Tuten Common in Denver,
Colorado. Yeah, I saw the whole display
in in uh Denver.
>> Wow.
>> Years ago. Yeah. And that was I could
have spent 10 days there.
>> I'm telling you there is something
there's something alive there that we
have. Whether it's alive meaning, you
know, living today or not, but there is
something that and you've made drawings
and had
views of that too. What's underground
there? Always knew there was something
underground. And I didn't know because I
never been there. But somebody I've been
listening to is Jeff Jeffrey Drummond.
>> Jeffrey Drummond.
>> Not familiar.
>> He uh
he's an investigator there and he I
guess he's some type of a a scientist
that uh he's he's put together uh an
entire
uh sequence that all three pyramids
performed and function to create
lightning. And that in turn created
lightning storms and energies and kept
the Sahara green from what I understand
from what I've what I've listened to.
But he's found piping. He's found all
kinds of stuff and does a really good
job at uh explaining that stuff.
>> It's incredible. It's it's a place with
such mystery and it draws so many people
to it. Not only the people of Egypt but
the people around the world are drawn
>> you know and there are plenty of
megalithic impossible structures around
the world by the way you know whether
it's Balbeck or all these other places
but something about the pyramid draws
people towards them
>> and there definitely is more than meets
the eye I like the
>> I like the idea a friend of mine George
St. here UFC fighter.
>> He's extremely invested in paleontology
and ancient archaeology in the ancient
astronaut theories
>> and he went there and because you know
he's
>> pretty big celebrity.
>> Yes.
>> He got this personal tour of the king's
chamber and they you know guys with guns
and everything and they blocked off the
door for him and they put him in the
>> sarcophagus
>> whatever that is over. Yeah. And the guy
stood in the corner of the room and just
started humming like like this type of
deal. And he goes,
>> "I have never felt that type of
vibration." And it wasn't loud. It was
just your body was thring like a tuning
fork. And
>> absolutely.
>> And for someone who's left his body,
>> I know what that feels like. Like that's
the feeling of having I want I want Oh
my gosh.
>> I'm going to do it.
>> I'd like to take a tuning fork. I've got
a couple of tuning. I'd like to bang on,
>> do some experiments, see what they do.
Yeah.
>> Well, if you ever leave your body, come
say hi.
>> I will.
>> You come say hi and be like, "What are
you doing?"
>> I don't know if I'd come back. You know
what I mean? If I, you know, depending
on where you go, I guess. I don't know
if I'd come back. But
>> do you think there is a relationship
between the beings that you saw in
Egypt?
>> Yes.
>> You think that that is them?
>> I don't know if it's them exactly, but
they know of that technology. And in my
opinion
>> and uh
they know its true function
>> or functions I should say there's an
interesting also an interesting
correlation. There are a few interesting
correlations obviously you know the
smell you know we didn't really uh touch
on but like you know since you've
probably come across a lot of similar
cases that have said the same thing with
the ammonia sulfur smell.
>> Yes.
>> For instance I'm reminded I think the
most famous case of which other than
Whitley Strieber because he also had
like burnt hair cardboard smell like
this putrid sort of scent
>> but James Fox's documentaries in
Virginia.
>> Yeah. Yeah. with these beings.
>> What was that like hearing about that?
>> Oh.
Um,
that was Brazil, right? That Yeah,
that's Brazil. I I just
>> The whole town stunk up.
>> Yeah, it it And they were seen. I mean,
that's the thing about it. They were
seen. How do they How do they hush that
up so quickly? How How is that just put
under wraps so quickly? How can the
government or anybody else move on that?
because many people saw
>> hundreds
>> of these be I mean yeah saw them and
how's that stopped how can it be our
cell phones collected our cameras
collected they search homes how did they
slow that down but it brings me back
honestly
>> to 1961 when everybody saw those three
craft above that those church steeples
at DQeen Elementary and nobody talked
about it like it was like forgotten
about seeing as they gone. It's all
over. There was nothing else to talk
about all day, the rest of the week. My
mother didn't even really mention it any
any further. How's that happen? It's a
good question. It's a great question. I
I'd love to know.
>> How's that happen? I think about it all
the time. I think why wasn't that talked
about all day long. Well, where's the
newspaper clippings? Cuz you know,
people always read the newspapers back
in the 60s. You know, there wasn't the
news like we have today. And what news
there was, it was pretty real news. you
know, you had Walter Kronite, all the
rest of them, you know, but
>> you would have had to, it's either one
of two options. It's either somehow the
beings or the technology is responsible
for that in within that bubble or
whatever that is, or there's a
psychological factor that just happens
when you're faced with something so
foreign.
>> Yeah. Um, you know, I'm reminded of
James Fox once again out of the blue
where he had the Phoenix the Phoenix
lights, right?
>> Sort of fly over this town and there's
this story of these ladies having tea
and they're just having tea and all of a
sudden they're looking at this craft fly
over this massive craft.
>> Yeah, it's huge.
>> Going right over them so slowly. And
they all just silently watch it go by
and the second it's out of view, they go
right back to drinking tea.
>> Mhm.
>> And you go, "What? How did that happen?
>> What do you mean? How would you not
scream, run, and the truth is
>> grab a camera, take off in a car after
it? Yeah,
>> there's a there's I'm reminded of a
movie. I forget what the movie is, but
there's this one really shocking scene
where there's this elderly couple.
They're sitting in their backyard and
behind them, the camera's facing them.
Behind them, you see a like Boeing 747
or something coming towards them. Very
small, but it starts getting bigger and
bigger and bigger. And eventually, when
it's like kind of like maybe that big in
the sky, big enough to be like, "What's
going on?" They get up and they both and
you see them both looking at this object
getting bigger and bigger as it gets
close to them and they're just staring
at it in disbelief thinking, "What's
going on?" Like, "What is that thing?"
And not until it was too late did they
go and start moving away and then they
got hit.
>> Yeah.
>> It was like they were frozen watching
it. And I said to myself, you know,
that's probably how it would really
happen. You wouldn't run and scream and
wake up your neighbors and be like, "We
got to go. The plane's going to crash."
You would stare at it until it hit you
right in the face.
>> You really Yeah.
>> Cuz you're wondering, "What the hell am
I looking at?"
>> Mhm.
>> I think what you're looking at is when
you realize what you're seeing.
>> Yeah.
>> And I don't want to put that on a damn
t-shirt because that that's
>> that moment.
>> That moment in time for me. it. As I
said, it it really wasn't
when I realized what I was looking at is
when I really just went
really large. What a craft. Craft. And
what's describe the craft
is the sphere.
>> And when you realize, was that
realization? Oh my god. Aliens.
>> Yeah. Was that the realization?
>> Other beings. And then
>> Yeah, just
beings from elsewhere. Just
beings. I I really didn't call them
aliens. I just I just call them
>> other people. Yeah, other people. Other
beings is what I thought.
>> Afraid to leave the vehicle. I should
have just stepped down.
I'm scared.
>> Okay, you're safe now, Mario. We're just
looking at a movie. I mean that must be
such a eyeopening experience of like oh
my god it's all true. Oh my god
everything is true. It's all true. They
exist. They're here.
You know it's
that approach from where they were and
how they got they never they weren't
touching the ground, man. They were just
gliding. They weren't on the ground.
They were just all there was no heads
going up and down as you see. you know,
you
it was no it was no bobbing and weaving
like you'd have in a line formation of
soldiers marching. It was just straight
on. Just straight on. Just
the and the tall one, you know, he had
he had this thing on his chest that was
the same color as this um as that
>> the wand
>> wand that was in that one's
>> What color was that wand?
>> The tip of it was like a like a yellow
like a bright orange yellow.
>> And the rest of it
>> uh I couldn't see the rest. It wasn't
lit. It was just that that piece was lit
up on the end of it.
>> And then but his chest,
>> it that thing on his chest was lit up
and it was a good size. It wasn't just a
little thing. It was like that size on
this on his chest. And it was the same
color as that as that thing.
>> Was it circular?
>> No, it was shaped like a like a I guess
like an octagon, like a stop sign. Okay.
>> Similar to that. And maybe not the exact
same, but it was twisted in kind of that
way. And then the
their heads were down here
and he was this much taller than they
were. So he was 2 feet or so taller than
than the smaller than the smaller ones.
And they weren't gray gray. They had
like a purplish
tint to them in some way. their head and
their their head their what I could see
is flesh or whatever the outer
color of their body is. It wasn't wasn't
gray. It was a Oh, this color is not
that far off. And I'm color blind now,
so just help me out here. But
>> is it because of Did their skin look
like it was thin?
>> Yes.
>> And like bruised almost?
>> No, just just real thin.
>> Like you could almost see the veins
through their
>> Yeah. or see anything through it.
>> And that's why it might have been sort
of blue colored almost like
>> possibly
possibly they they they were just real
different colored. And the tall one was
a he was a gray color, a gray silver
color and
>> like a solid gray.
>> Yeah. And his the facial structure was a
whole lot different. Much pointier chin.
>> Longer. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And the eyes were like set a
little bit higher, but not not
traditional almond shaped eyes. They
were just different. They weren't as
they weren't long this way. They were
just an almond shape, but they weren't
uh
>> taller like up facing upwards.
>> Yeah, they
they weren't they weren't like they
weren't like that right there. They were
just they were smaller smaller eyes with
uh
not that angular shape on them at the
end like this. They were they were more
rounded that way, but still had a little
shape to them, but it was just
different.
>> But I didn't I wasn't worried about him.
I was worried about that the little one.
It's just I was told to look at that
one.
>> I was told to look at that. Look at
that. Look at that. Look at that.
>> You were told to.
>> That's what I feel. I don't I don't
remember any words. All I remember is do
not fear. Do not fear. But I kept
looking at that. And then and you know I
pull up behind a car today in a vehicle
in my vehicle or something or on my
motorcycle and
I just have to be real careful not to
look at a light for too long because
that that memory comes back to me all
the time. That that image comes back to
me daily.
>> I noticed yesterday at the restaurant
it happened like there was a there was a
jug of
>> h was a cr Yeah. Stainless steel jug. It
was a chrome. It was like polished
chrome.
>> Yeah. And you you had to get up mid-con
conversation to just turn the jug.
>> Yeah. It was reflecting and it was right
inside of my eye. And I And I can't
sleep with anything like these lights. I
can't
>> that has to I put I put tape over them.
>> It's a trigger.
>> Yeah. Anything like that.
>> Wow.
>> Anything. And it's just so strange, you
know, the the whole thing. Who would
have ever thought growing up, you know,
from a youngster to a to a man that
you'd see something like that in your
lifetime and and
just have to just deal with it.
>> I couldn't think of a better person to
to to hold this because it takes someone
strong, Mario. It does take someone
really strong to be able to to live with
this and to talk about it. But you're
also someone like I said, you're you've
got such a sharp recall. You are on a
program that tested you regularly for
your mental faculties. You are like
there is in my opinion no better person.
>> Thank you.
>> Wow.
>> Than to than to speak about this than
you. I I I I I I firm I firmly believe
that there are a lot of people out there
that are really credible that have their
stories, but I think you provide
something that no one else has provided
so far. And it's the level of conscious
detail plus the credible the the sort of
credible background that comes that
comes with it.
>> And for Congress to even ignore that,
>> well, they won't.
>> I mean,
>> they won't forever, but
>> I I hope not. But for them to ignore it
as long as they have tells me, you know,
there's there's some part of that system
that's acting out of bad faith.
>> Yeah. I called Tim Burquette's office
and got some guy on the phone one day
and I told him, I said, "Look, I used to
work at Y12." I said, "NK25 and been to
the lab plenty of times and I said, uh,
Briquette had put out something about
if, you know, if there was something
that you needed to tell him concerning
this measure, you know, to to let him
know." And I was I was going to let him
know. I mean, I know where he lives
there. I think Marville's where he
lives. And I lived over in Kingston or
lived in Haramman actually. We did.
And uh I called her twice. Never heard a
word back from anybody over there. And
and that's okay too. You know, it really
you you can't they have to come to you.
You can't you can't go to them. It it
just seems that way. And
I'm just going to I'll just let it ride
until they do come. And of course that
lieutenant colonel I spoke with at Arrow
when he interviewed me, that was a
really strange thing seemed like a real
nice guy and and uh he was an army I
guess army intelligence and uh
he said something that uh he goes well
you know he said you're one of the only
ones that you were actually on duty
responding to an incident when this hap
to a to an alarm when this happened so
it's not a story it's an incident and I
said you I never thought about that, but
you're right. And I said, well, who else
has done it? He says, I can't think of
any.
So, that's one thing they have to
they have to separate. I mean, it
actually happened on duty. And
for people that that really
want to know about this stuff, I just
don't understand. And I one of my best
buddies in the world is an F4 pilot.
And uh we were at Moody Air Force Base
together. Even shared a house downtown
in in Valdasta together for a while.
And uh
you know, pilots are super great people,
man. I do anything for pilot. And I and
he got me in an F4 simulator all the
time. And then I I'd live my life in
that simulator every time I
>> You can fly. You can fly a jet.
>> I damn sure try or crash trying. with no
guit, you know, you can't get above
10,000 ft because you got to breathe.
And uh, of course, uh, I could never
land the damn thing. So, so my thought
was if, you know, if I was in a in a in
something, you know, of course that was
an F4, that's not an F-16, F-15, 22, or
the rest of them today. I I have no idea
about them, but I'd sure like to. Uh,
but I always figured that if something
happened and I could get to get to it,
crank it up, you know, with a with a
ground power unit and it had a fuel in
it, at least I could take off and of
course just punch out to get out of a
combat area. That's, you know, cuz I
guess when we when we left Vietnam,
there were F4s on the tarmac and they
had to blow them up, you know, and there
was a lot of security policemen that
actual air force security policemen that
died defending the runway while pilots
and and civilians got off in uh
aircraft, you know, cuz when they
overran the whole place, you know, but
there was some
people lost their lives there. I just
thought I'd
maybe have a chance if that were to
happen ever. So, you got to think about
that survival, you know. Yeah. But I'd
like to um
I'd like to also say that
people in Congress just need to have a
little more open mind and they need to
they really need to talk to people that
have up close and personal experiences
with this. This is not something that
passed by me at 1500 miles an hour or uh
was off in the far distance in any way.
And like I said, I love all all my
pilots. I I love those guys, man. Navy,
Air Force, Marines, I don't care. I
They're great guys, man. Teeth, you
know, teeth with bugs in it, hair on
fire, and they're just they're going
full speed ahead, man. I like that.
But what happened that night on November
5 was up close and absolute personal.
And uh no matter
whether they ever hear me or not, I live
with that. And I know what I saw. I know
what I smelled and I know what I
experienced.
And there's another guy out there just
like me. And it's up to them to find
him. I told the FBI, interviewed with
the FBI here
few months back about seven or eight
hours with them on the phone. Even
interviewed my sister down in uh Florida
about our incident we saw in Port
Arthur, Texas as kids. And my sister has
seen two tic tacs in where she lives
near Dade City, Florida. Yeah. and they
even asked her about that. So,
it was it was it was good for her. She
uh that it really made her feel good,
you know.
But, um
I would just I would just honestly
like to see them
really investigate this. I don't know
what military forces are or are or
personnel are blocking Congress.
the people we elect and pay to find
these answers for us and the people that
are in the military or all the services
or or the CIA or the NSA or the FBI,
they have to be held accountable.
Somebody's got to answer these
questions. And you know, it's a dead gum
shame a a president only gets four years
or a re-election for four more years,
but yet a lot of these senators and all
and a lot lot people they stay in there
for a lifetime. So what kind of power
did they develop? How unfair is that to
to the rest of society because they
believed they believe they're entitled
to what they're doing today to keep
secrets from all of us. And that's
that's entirely wrong. We pay those
people.
>> Yeah. I feel like um a lot of this stuff
is going to come is going to be
grassroots. It's going to be from the
ground up.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's going to come from the little
guy. And I think that's the way it has
to happen cuz
>> you know that's that's all we've got at
the end of the day. We can't we can't
trust them all.
>> No.
>> We got to trust we got to you know stick
together and and keep telling these
stories
um just like you're doing today.
Um I also wanted to one last thing I
wanted to touch on before we go. Do not
fear.
Now
that not only resonates with every
experiencer who's had close contact
because they also have heard that in one
form or another or sometimes like we are
you are we this type of you know
rhetoric.
>> But also if you look in and I'm I'm not
a religious guy. I know you mentioned
you had a Bible and and you know I I I'm
okay with religion I think.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> Um but in the Bible they do mention this
>> 365 times.
>> Do not fear.
>> Do not fear.
>> The angels, the seraraphim,
>> yes,
>> these visitations, the first thing they
say,
>> do not fear.
>> Do not fear.
>> Amen. Yep.
>> You already made that connection.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Yeah. Do you think historically what
people are referring to in the Bible are
these beings?
>> I think it's very close. I totally
believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I I
I believe the Bible. And however we
perceive that in each of us is the story
it will take away from it.
>> So what I can say shouldn't influence
anybody else has got to be within each
each individual. And I'm sure at the end
of my lifespan when I'm gasping my last
breath of air, I'm pretty certain I'll
be calling on him. Whether a person
believes or not or they're involved in
an accident or die naturally of natural
causes, they still call on him.
>> Do you think they're demons?
>> No. No. There are such things. I'm
>> evil forces out there. Yeah. But not
these things. No, not these things.
>> What would you say to people who who
dismiss them as demons? What would you
tell them as someone who does believe in
God and believe in the Bible? What would
you say to these people? Because I think
they need to hear it, too.
>> I think there should be a separation.
Uh
in in my humble opinion, if you ever
think that we are all that ever has been
or ever will be and all that vastness is
right above our head and continuation of
thought forever
and we're all that we're all that's out
here, you're just fooling yourself
because it's
we're made of star material. God put
that together in my opinion and sent it
to where it could be used or placed us
here in ways in which he wanted us to
be. That's all I know to say. And you
got to and again, you've got to be very
careful on how you address that because
people are going to make opinions of it.
But
there's nobody I don't care for.
And
when people do good things, good things
happen. And uh
I I just
think down deep I think there's good in
everybody and they just they just have
to they have to let it out, you know,
just have to to live that for each other
I believe. But
there are those that don't unfortunately
but that's just my my thought and it's a
very deep subject.
>> All right, Mario. Um, are you do you
want to take a break? Do I I have
questions from the audience. Just a few.
Do do you feel like
>> um
>> you can get through or do you want to
take a little break here?
>> No, I'm I'm good, man. I'm I'm I'm all
right. All right, we'll go. I hope I've
done okay here. I'm just
>> You're incredible. Stop. You're amazing.
This has been one of the most amazing
conversations I I I've ever had in doing
this. So, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank
you.
>> I'll be right back. I'm going to turn
that camera on and we're going to get to
some audience questions. Okay.
>> All right. We got some questions here
from the audience.
>> Sure.
and uh they've always got good
questions. And if you're a member here,
one of the perks, as many of you know,
is getting to have the potential or to
ask our audience, ask our guest a
question. And uh I usually choose three
and we're going to see maybe we'll
answer a few of them here. You know,
there are times when I've walked in
rooms and the lights flicker
and then I was at my oral surgeon's
office
and they were doing the uh
scan, you know, of my mouth
and uh that piece of equipment is really
high dollar
and once they scanned it, it wouldn't
play it back.
Well, when you called me earlier
>> Mhm.
>> right before you called, and I mean 3
seconds before you called, the lights
flickered in my office.
>> Mhm.
>> And I I was like, that it's probably
windy. It's probably like a
thunderstorm. I go outside. It's a
beautiful day.
>> Okay. Uh interesting. Um
>> I'm going to tell you one more thing,
too, real quick. My uh son was with me
this day
about eight months ago. Got out of my
truck. He was visiting. Got out of my
little Honda Ridgeline where I drive.
Pull up in the driveway, got out and I
have over an acre where I live and
there's a Zelia bushes and all this
stuff around all around my house, you
know.
Anyway, I was walking toward the garage,
not a breath of air in the in the
blowing or nothing, and all of a sudden
this freaking Aelia Bush man just
started doing this and he goes, "Dad,
what?"
That's another thing when you talk about
2017, December 17, 2017. That's
something that happened, you know, in my
room. I don't know what it was for or
what or what happened, but
that's when I woke up standing at the
foot of my bed.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Mhm. That we need to talk about that,
but um all the low voltage, you know
what a low voltage alarm is? Like on
your microwave, your stove, your
refrigerator, uh all these items, your
your AC units have them. And all these
low voltage alarms in my home were go
was going off. And uh it was uh 411
4:11 a.m.
And my son burst through through my room
through my door in my room cuz he's just
the room over. And uh he said, "Dad,
what's going on?" Soon as he said that,
I opened my eyes and I'm standing at the
foot of my bed looking at the north wall
in my house. And
I said I said, "What's all those
alarms?" He goes, "Dad, I don't know."
And all the lights were like real low
like they were down on
>> I lost a leg of power to my house. So
everything was up. I don't know what
that voltage is, but everything was
reduced and the lights were just barely
on. And then what was on like above the
stove and that kind of small lights were
just flickering like they were like they
were just turned way down
and nothing's on any kind of a dimmer
control or nothing.
And uh so I went through the house and
after these low voltage alarms sound on
this equipment on your washer dryer and
all that stuff for a while then they
finally turn off I guess. I don't know
cuz the power never came back on. But I
told him I don't know what happened son.
I said, "I I guess I'll call Georgia
Power when I wake up." So, and all of a
sudden, it was about4:4 to 8 in the
morning. He opened my door and he says,
"Dad," he goes, "Georgia Powers out
here." And I said, "Really?" I said, "I
didn't call them." He goes, "Hm."
He goes, "Well, they're out there in the
yard. There's a bunch of them." I said,
"No kidding." And it's uh I live off the
road by like 150 ft.
So, I got dressed real quick and I was
off that day. So, I walked out there and
I said, "Hey, how you doing, man?" And
he was in this between some pine trees
in my yard in about they were in about
40 ft trying to find where the break was
in that line, you know, but was I had no
idea what he was even looking for.
And he goes, "Uh, you Mr. Woods?" And I
said, "Yes, sir." He goes, "Uh, well, I
I put a I tied in
a jumper transformer. It's on your back
deck by your trash can." I said, "What?"
I said, "What happened?" He goes, "I
don't know what happened." And he said,
"But you lit up our board downtown like
the 4th of July this morning at 4:11
a.m." And I said, "Well, what about the
rest of the neighborhood today? Out of
power?" I said, "Cuz all my stuff is
like it's working right now, but it was
working because he put that jumper and
it wasn't working up to that point." And
my wife was asleep. She had no idea any
of this had even taken place. You know,
December 17th, 2017 is when it happened.
And uh
so anyway uh I I he he got to ask me
questions and I said uh he goes, "Were
you running any kind of equipment or
something, high voltage equipment, a
welder or something?" And I said, "I
don't even own a welder, man. I own
everything else, but no, I don't have
anything like that." He and he goes,
"Uh, anything on the 220 level?" And I
said, "No, sir." I said, "My well is,
you know, I have a well." I said, "I
have a a dryer and all that stuff that
all pulls 220."
And he goes, "Well, I don't know
either." He said, "I just know." He
Yours is the only house that's affected.
And it messed it blew my computer up, my
doorbell system.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Uh a microwave oven had two of
them and only one of them went
uh something else in my garage.
Well, it it may have been something, but
>> but um
>> that might explain the uh the split flap
not working here behind me. It's not
working. This isn't I I got to probably
reboot it or whatever, so we can't get
to that.
>> I have um
>> question this this whole thing December
17th, 2017. I I I called Robert Hastings
right away when I found all this out.
And uh after my son burst through my
room and and I had this hole in the wall
with sparks on the end of it, looked
like some kind of an opening or
something. I can't explain it. And I
don't really know what I saw. And I was
standing at the edge of my bed.
>> Like a portal.
>> Like a portal. Yeah.
>> Was it was it like in like you cuz you
described to me like like in the Marvel
movies.
>> Yeah. Just just like that when Thanos
raised the fist and shot back through
this dad gum portal. Looked just like
that. I mean that's I even thought that
when I
when I said that and um
and I don't have full recollection of
seeing that. I just know you know
vision's a funny thing.
you know that in magic. But
so after I meet the supervisor in my
yard and he's telling me he's put this
jumper transformer, which I have
pictures of on my on my back deck out
beside my garage and I had not even seen
it yet. I walked back there with him to
look at it and he showed me said I'll
come get it as soon as I put a new line
down. So a couple of everything was done
and taken care of and I did have some
things that were toasted and got had to
get rid of and buy new again. But uh
couple of weeks later uh one of the
neighbors teenagers who my son and he
used to play around together when they
were kids shooting bows and arrows and
BB guns and stuff and he came by and he
said, "Hey, Mr. Woods"? He says, "What
was all those lights in your backyard
the other night?" And I said, "What?" I
didn't know what he's talking about. I
said, "What are you talking about?"
And he goes, "They look like Hollywood
search lights in your backyard at 4:00
in the morning." And I said,
You got to be kidding me. I said, "You
know, I've just got six lights back
there on the corners of the house,
right? Regular 150 watt spotlights,
right?" And he goes, "I don't know what
they were." He said, "But they were
super huge and bright." He said, "I was
on my way to work." And he just drove
off.
And that was the end of that. And I just
shook my head thinking, "What in the
heck, man, is all that is is that, you
know, I just
I don't know. It just it just blew my
mind." And one other thing I want to go
I want to go back to real quick is right
after my sighting
and experience at November 5.
It wasn't long at all when
Close Encounters of Third Giant came
out.
>> Oh wow.
>> I think it came out in um it came out
December, didn't it? Of 77.
>> Of 77. Yep. You know, I'm in I'm
November.
>> Wow.
>> of 77.
>> Wow. Oh, I didn't even make that
connection.
>> Mhm.
>> So, I took my took my wife to go see the
see it.
And there was a lot of things in there
that I saw that I was picking up on and
and uh
anyway where Roy Ner comes upon when it
when they they're out there the when
he's out with that map in his in his
pickup truck and he's got the flashlight
in his mouth and also the mailbox will
start shaking. Of course that's
Hollywood
uh excitement drama. But
when that crowd came upon him and put
that light on him, it seemed like it it
did something to him. It seemed as if it
got his attention and almost shocked him
in a way that through that light
something was imparted, a knowledge or a
feeling or something that he had to go
after. And it was pyramidal in shape or
that shape of the devil's tower at that
time.
When that happened to him, when that
mailbox started shaking and that light
came down on that man,
I didn't see the end of that sequence
cuz I jumped up out of that theater in
Rapid City on Main Street and I hauled
my butt out to the curb where I just had
to gather myself and I left my wife
sitting there cuz I and when she came up
there to me, I just said, "I feel like
they're telling my life story there."
That's what I told her. I said, 'I feel
like you're just they're telling my life
story in that movie, and I I can't watch
that right now.
>> It was a month after.
>> Mhm.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Him floating in the car with the uh with
the object sort of like lifting in the
car right when that light.
>> Same same thing. So, tell me Stephen
Spielberg doesn't have some type of
inside information cuz I thoroughly
believe he does. Absolutely believe he
does. You going to go see a the new one?
Absolutely. The disclosure day.
>> I'll buy it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, I will buy it.
>> I'll go see it with you if we're if
we're in the same part of the world.
>> I love it, man. I would absolutely love
that. That would be fantastic.
>> But I just had to throw had to get that
in there because it's it's it's uh
that's important cuz I felt that very
same way that he looked and looking upon
myself, you know, it's given me
introspect. You know, I even think about
that craft over November 5 and November
five, not just the size, but the the
proximity or not proximity.
>> The closeness of that they could have
gone to nine other sites all twice to
three times as far as November 5 was.
How did they know that that launch
control facility was even
even
somehow monitored by that missile at
that missile site? How do how would they
know that? How how would
how could they know that we would
respond to an alarm there? And I mean,
do they just they sit up there and they
can just see all this? Do they see the
connections underground? Well, I mean,
what's their visual aspect of me
flipping those sight lights at them and
from where they're located and which by
the way, all said and done when I
plotted it on Google Earth, November
control or November 1, November 5 to New
Reservoir Dam, it's a Pythagorean
triangle.
And
I actually believe they were over New
Lake Reservoir Dam when I first saw
them.
>> That's where I think that craft was over
that
>> where they and where they dropped you
>> over that dams where I think they were
initially and then I ended up back
there. I I'm I'm just that's total
speculation,
>> but there's something that just doesn't
make sense as to where they were when I
saw them
>> to what occurred at November 5 to where
I ended up at the back of no of New Lake
Reservoir Dam with Michael Johnson. So,
I just wanted to say that. But yeah,
>> drawing it on on looking at it on a on a
US map, I mean, that is a really strange
>> angle how that and it all encompasses
about 23 and a half miles cuz it's
7 and 12 miles to uh November 5 from
November 1 and then it was 9 and a half
miles to New Lake Reservoir Dam up
Highway 79.
So, I just wanted to I just wanted to
bring that up.
>> Yeah, it's an interesting
>> Yeah.
>> point of connection. I try to look at
all these different aspects of it.
>> Another interesting synchronicity is
that November 5 is the same day that
Travis Walton got taken.
>> November 5th. Really?
>> Yeah. In 1975. So two years prior. So
that November 5 is really interesting.
And I do believe November 5 is also when
Bob Lazar went to George Knap
>> in on November the 5th.
>> Yeah. In '89.
>> Wow. So just other synchronicities
there.
>> Yeah.
>> Anyway, I'm just the whole thing is just
as unreal. Just the whole
48 years of it. Literally.
>> Well, I'm glad that you're here to tell
the story.
>> Thank you for having me.
>> Thank you.
Well, I would love to get some of these,
but this thing's behaving wonky. Is it
related? I mean your guess is as good as
mine. Um I will I will ask one of the
questions here just because you know you
guys
>> sure
>> um and slug your question here was what
do you want other military witnesses who
are still silent to know.
>> I would help them in any way possible.
They could email me anything they'd like
to say would never be divulged or sent
out to anybody else ever. If you just
need someone to talk to about it, I'd be
more than happy to listen to you. Or you
can email me at mwoods175gmail.com
and I'll be happy to answer you. It may
take me a little while to get to it. It
usually does after some type of cast.
>> I I I always put my email out there for
people. So, but I would be happy to help
you in any way, fashion, or form. And if
you don't feel like reaching out,
just sit down and take a full collection
of yourself. Take some deep breaths and
just and just know that you're not
alone.
And that if you do reach out, somebody
will help. Somebody will help you. And
not everybody will talk about you and
nobody will ever make you feel bad.
If if if you need to reach out for any
reason there there are there are good
people in this field that can help you
and you may know some other than myself
or or even or Chris or anybody else.
Just just don't lock yourself up. Don't
take it out on your family.
Uh and level with your wives. Don't
don't hide that.
Don't ever hide it because it it comes
out in other ways and there's no you
have no control in inevitably.
It's an emotion that we just don't have.
We just can't keep in check yet.
So, so
serve yourself well. Just know people
care and if you want to reach out, reach
out.
I appreciate that. and you're about to
have a full-time job answering emails, I
suspect after this podcast. Mario Woods,
I want to thank you so much for, you
know, your cander just opening up. Um,
being
so open is uh is really really much
needed and uh it takes a lot of bravery,
a lot of courage, a lot of a lot of I
mean a lot of the X factor that you seem
to have. So, I'm very very thankful that
you uh came forward with this and I wish
you nothing but the best in Egypt and I
can't wait to hear about your
adventures,
>> man.
>> And if there's anything at all that you
need from me, you just let me know.
>> You know, I will and I really appreciate
that, Chris. You're awesome, brother.
Awesome.
Heat. Heat.