How do you describe what you do for
work?
>> Depends the viewer. If I'm talking to
the nice little church lady, I'd tell
her I'm helping helping young folks and
some old folks with their money. If I'm
just talking to just random person on
the street, I'd say I'm yelling at a
bunch of retards who suck with money and
roasting them along the way and having a
lot of fun doing it.
>> I was going to ask why you get death
threats, but you've kind of precluded
that. I mean, I don't understand. Like,
okay, if you come on financial audit,
you would come through a multi-week
onboarding process and give me all these
things like,
let's pretend you didn't want to me to
make fun of your curly hair for whatever
reason. You would tell me that. You
would tell the producers that cuz we ask
you in advance.
>> Yeah. So, we don't bring it up. So, and
then I get consent to make sensitivity
about myself. Yeah.
>> Exactly. So, why get death threats for
making fun of things that someone gave
me explicit permission to make fun of?
Makes no sense. It's the being offended
on behalf of someone who's not offended.
>> I will never get it. I'm not the person.
I've never been that person. I I don't
understand it.
>> Mhm. The white knighting.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> The the moral hero, the you're on your
moral horse and I don't know, you want
your TikTok community to raise you up. I
guess it makes you feel good. you get
views. It's one of the my least favorite
categories of people are those that
their morality stands on the shoulders
of other people that they're saying are
worse than them. Like don't look at how
good I am because I don't want that
scrutiny on me. Just look at how bad
they are and implicitly that makes me
feel like a person that's of higher
moral standing. It's pretty.
>> Yeah, we had um when we were filming
this episode, we had a guest on on our
episode that I uploaded yesterday and I
brought in one of my co-workers,
employees, also friends, Tyler, black
dude, big black dude, very intimidating,
can beat the [ __ ] out of anyone. And
like the guy where you were sitting is
a piece of [ __ ] racist. Like an actual
racist. He was like,
>> "Did you do this on purpose?"
>> Cast him. You brought a black person in
with somebody that you knew would be
racist.
>> So the guy was sitting where you said
and he said, "You know, I'm one of those
people that says things that need to be
said." And I was like, "Okay, pause."
Brought in the guy that he would
actually have a consequence.
>> Oh, right. Yep. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And he was like, "Uh, yeah. N
word." So, I just said that, but you
know what? He consented to it.
Obviously, I wouldn't have my friend go
through a situation he didn't like. He
even reacted to it on his own stream
later that day. He loved it. No,
>> he just loves being called the n-word,
gets off on it.
>> No black I we we scoured the internet.
No black person was like offended
anywhere or there was a lot of white
women that were super offended on his
behalf saying that he should sue the
show for having to go through that.
That's workplace harassment and all that
stuff. When he's friends, we're I'm
friends with him. We're literally just
having fun together making fun of the
dude that was a piece of [ __ ] in front
of us. He and I were on the same team
having a good time and it was this white
lace upset on the internet.
>> Kind of blows my mind that people want
to step into that environment cuz it's
very intense. It's not opposite someone.
Originally it's one-on-one and then it's
oneon two, but there's also maybe
someone behind the scenes and you know
that there's all of these people on the
internet that are going to see you do
this thing. The psychology of someone
that's prepared to go on a show like
that
>> and go headtohead with someone on their
home turf and be an [ __ ] I It's kind
of impressive. It is. It is. It is
almost impressive. I don't think that I
would be very good at if I was an
[ __ ] doing that and being on this
side. It's like if you are an [ __ ] by
design, you're usually trying to keep it
quiet so people don't realize. People
aren't advertising their assholeery up
front. But that's what makes it fun
though is that anyone who's seen our
show or anyone who comes on the show has
seen the show so they already know I'm
an [ __ ] Then they watch two
onboarding videos. when they get sent to
them, when they have to watch in the
green room, and I'm like, "Hey, I'm an
[ __ ] I'm going to make fun of you.
I'm going to yell at you telling me what
you don't want to do." So, honestly,
besides that piece of [ __ ] racist, cuz I
actually don't like someone who's
actually racist. Um, every other guest
that has come on the show practically,
other than a few here and there, I
respect the [ __ ] out of cuz yeah, that's
crazy showing up to a show that a lot of
people are going to see that you're
going to get goofed on, but they also do
get resources and the vast majority do
change their lives for the better
afterwards. That is the fun effect of
it. They get to go through the whole
cycle with us. And
>> I think it would be crazier for them to
sign up if everything no matter their
say was on display. Since they get to
say what they don't want to talk about,
it gives them more control, which if
there is something that actually would
impact their life or their job or their
family, they can call that out and not
have that in the episode. So, they do
have that level of control, but they're
still very brave and I have a huge
amount of respect for them. What is the
process of getting access to somebody's
financials? And how do you know that
they haven't kept something super secret
behind the scenes that they haven't
shown you?
>> Right. Well, it would be difficult for
like a checking or savings account, but
we do get them to send us their credit
karma with, you know, important things
bleeped out. Their credit karma.
>> Oh, credit karma. Well, it basically
shows your credit report for the most
part. I mean, it's kind of simulated.
It's not perfect. you're not getting
your like requesting your three free
credit reports every single year or
whatnot. But um it's the app that many
people use to actually see what's going
on and the impact of their new debts are
opening, their hard inquiries,
everything like that. But if we get them
to send their screenshots, that way we
can see if there's debts that they don't
even know about. Cuz often times there
are debts that they don't know about,
collections that they don't know about.
So we're able to hold their feet to the
fire that way. M do you think it's
genuinely harder for young people today
or are expectations the problem?
>> It's harder to do certain things. I
mean, you're not going to be able to do
the single income household thing like
that's going to be there's going to be
harder things, right? That's going to be
harder. Buying your first home is going
to be harder. Um, you know, getting your
first car might be harder. It depends,
you know, how you do it. That one's
definitely a hit or miss for sure.
um that that's going to be harder. But
being independent in terms of groceries
or rent or getting a comfy office job
that is relatively decent paying like
we've never had it better than ever
before. Now you can take a snapshot in
time this year, this period in exact
time. Yeah. For college graduates, it's
objectively [ __ ] That's just an
economic situation, not a general uh
generational situation. Cuz 5 years ago,
college graduates had a great they were
entering the best job market in the
history of humanity essentially when
that pandemic money was just flowing
from tech companies. Anyone could get a
job. But now it's objectively not. But
that's a period in time, not a
generational thing.
>> So the cost of practically every
category of life spending as a
percentage of income has dramatically
dropped since the 1950s. Besides a few
things that are very important, buying a
house, healthcare, and borrowing for
school, borrowing for school, do you
have to do that? You know, there's
different paths. We can talk community
college, we can talk apprenticeships,
trade schools. Okay? So, there's
flexibility there. House, you don't have
to buy a house when, you know, if you're
a young person right now, you don't have
to even and even if you do, that
actually might be a worse use of your
money than in just investing in the S&P
500. Healthcare, yeah, that one's
[ __ ] Can't really control that one.
That's a mess. So if something bad
happens to you,
>> what's happened to the cost of
healthcare over time?
>> Oh, just endlessly the premiums and if
an emergency happens. Healthcare is one
of those issues that's actually really
interesting when it comes up on the show
because I get very invested in trying to
learn as much as I can about the
personal finance categories across the
board. But for healthcare, for some
reason, I've just missed it because this
is one of those things that was never my
passion. So, I never fully dove into the
reason, the why and how. I just make
sure, you know, I have the general
necessity, the the things that someone
would need to make sure they're getting
a halfway decent plan through their job
and whatnot. Making sure their premiums
aren't completely out of control, that
they can afford their co-pays, that they
have their highest deductible taken care
of in the case of an emergency. But
>> speaking on the cost of healthcare, you
know, this is that's definitely out of
all things in the financial world, not
my expertise. And I said I said that on
another podcast that hasn't come out
yet. And now that it's come up in two
podcast in a in a row, I'm just, you
know, I need to educate the [ __ ] out of
myself on healthcare cuz it's very
curious cuz housing could talk about
housing all day. Cost of college and
school. I could talk about that all day,
but not healthcare.
>> It's one of the big three.
>> One of the big three.
>> Housing, healthcare, school. Yeah.
>> You know a lot about the first the first
and the last but
>> there's a lot more that you can control.
So I'm interested in the things you can
control. It's very difficult for people
to be able to control their actual
health care situation whether or not
they have a pre-diagnosis or there's
only a few plans offered
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> But school and housing there's a lot
more control and financial audits more
about what things you can control. It's
interesting that you said as a
percentage of earnings, the cost of
living in almost all areas
has become more affordable.
>> Yeah.
>> Except for three that are [ __ ]
massive.
>> Massive.
>> And those three have done so much damage
>> that they've managed to basically net
detract from all of the gains that were
made in everything else.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's pretty brutal. But
again, with the two that I can speak on
a little better, house, you don't have
to buy a house. So, you have more
choices there. You don't have to buy a
house fresh out of college. You don't
have to go when it comes to the cost of
school. There's so many different paths
that include going to school. And that's
local four years. That's community
college. That's not going to private
institutions or going to your dream
school because it has the sports team
you like. It's also has to do with if
cost of college is high, you need to
make sure you're getting a degree that
has an appropriate return on investment.
So, there's lots of choices there. So,
those three categories are pretty
brutal, but of two of them, you still
have choice in it.
>> Gen Z borrowers are carrying more credit
card debt than millennials did at the
same age, despite growing up with more
financial information than any
generation before them.
>> Yeah.
>> 98% of Gen Z say credit is important,
but only 53% believe they have adequate
access to it. And more than half of
Americans have used buy now pay later
services. 59% of those users were Gen Z.
>> Oh yeah, that makes sense. Paying for
CLA, everything. It's a very Gen Z
thing. Tap to pay. Super easy to use
those. They're at every checkout for any
concert you go to, pretty much anything
you want to do. Um, so that's not
surprising. There is um I'm not I'm
forgetting the term off the top of my
head, but it's something like Doom Loop
or something that a lot of Gen Z is kind
of getting into where mostly because of
the information out there and the
algorithms they find themselves in, they
think everything's going to be so bad
forever, why not just spend the money?
>> Why not just put it on their credit
card? So, it makes sense. It seems to me
like uh a big part of it is people being
so unsure about the future and feeling
like things are not going to get better
that well [ __ ] it. It's almost like the
end of days. You know, there's this
interesting story about during the Blitz
in World War II in London, uh the amount
of casual sex that people were having
went through the roof, but lingerie
sales stayed the same. And it was just
people thought, look,
>> I might die tomorrow. It doesn't really
matter about how sexy I look in bed.
Let's just get down to it. And it's kind
of the financial equivalent of that. I'm
just going to dump it all. Which is this
weird sort of uh recursive system. It's
this self-reinforcing mechanism that if
you have
>> negative information about the economy
and about the quality of life for young
people and about how hard you've got it
and the fact that it's never going to
get better, that encourages people to
behave in a way that makes the thing
true.
>> Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Kind of wild.
self it's a a self-fulfilling prophecy
that kind of gets
>> not made out of nowhere. There are real
material changes, but it's certainly
worsened
>> and it's tracked. The University of
Michigan does consumer sentiment survey
uh and that I think they've done it
since the 1980s and right now is one of
the three lowest we've ever had. I think
it was right when COVID kicked off, the
great recession and now. But now is not
even near great recession in any other
indicator anywhere. It's not right when
COVID kicked off when everything shut
down and no one know what was knew what
was going to happen, but consumer
sentiment is basically at an all-time
low.
>> What do you think's going on?
>> Well, we are stuck in those algorithms.
You make money on negativity. Like even
I have a documentary channel, more of a
passion project, not much of a
moneymaker called.
>> It's cool. I like it.
>> Oh, thanks. Called Front Page. Still
getting the feel of it. But either way,
I mean, the reality is the the topics
that are interesting to talk about are
the more negative ones. Super positive
content isn't as interesting to talk
about. For whatever reason, I'm not
interested in learning about super
positive. Not interested in talking
about super positive. So,
>> doesn't feel urgent.
>> No, exactly. So, that's the information
that's getting out there. That's the
information that catches people's
attention, keeps them in the algorithm.
So, I'm not surprised at all. I mean,
nightly news, other than one fluff
piece, is usually just negative,
negative, negative. even about the heat
outside. It's like the apocalypse. Uh
it's it's always just negative. So it's
not surprising. That's what drives our
attention. That's what drives the
algorithm. So consumer sentiment will of
course be lower,
>> right? And that is impacting people's
behavior which actually brings that
reality, brings that imagination into
reality or brings the news feed into
your finances. Pretty interesting.
>> Yeah. Even though consumer spending is
actually relatively healthy overall.
like this isn't the best year in our
economy, but it's also not even close to
the worst year. Things are relatively
healthy. There's some bad things like I
called out. There's the new graduates,
bad job market for new graduates. And
there's a lot of things at play there.
There are a lot of things that play
there. There's the nervousness of AI.
There was the overhiring during the tech
boom during COVID. They've cut back
there. And if there's if there's no
people leaving their jobs voluntarily,
there's no jobs opening. and the people
that are leaving their jobs in Texas are
the one getting laid off and they're not
rehiring someone who's getting laid off.
So those job openings that were there
during the pandemic aren't there. So
there's actual negative things happening
right now, but it's not the overall
economic situation. We're still having
okay GDP growth
>> postinflation. Um the war in Iran done
allegedly. We'll see. Is it
>> he signed the uh idea of peace or
something yesterday and so did Iran, the
leader of
>> me? That's like a guy with erectile
dysfunction saying, "I've signed the
idea of erection today." Yeah.
>> Signed the idea of a of a penis. I want
to get you to react to a financial case
here. Can we pull up that Tik Tok?
>> I've had such a bad financial burden the
last couple years. So, after meeting
with attorney and doing lots of
research, I realized that filing
bankruptcy really isn't as bad as it's
made out to be, and it was truly going
to be my best bet. Decided to file
Chapter 7. And you know, truthfully, my
consumer debt really is not that bad. A
lot of people have it a lot worse
financially, but for me, $91,000 was
just too much. It was uncomfortable and
I just wanted to get a fresh start. I
moved to Texas directly after high
school, and I made a lot of very
irresponsible decisions financially and
really dug myself into a big hole of
debt. I decided, let's go ahead and file
bankruptcy. Let's get myself a clean
slate. That way, I can stop stressing
and I can actually do better. Okay, just
to give you a little breakdown of the
debt that I do have that totals up to
$91,300.
I owe about $51,000 on the vehicle that
I have. We did try selling that, trading
it in, all that good stuff, but I have
way too much negative equity to come out
on top. I bought a motorcycle back in
2022. Thought that was a great idea. Um
I
same thing, tried selling it, not able
to get what we owe out of it.
>> Um I do own a camper and I owe about
$13,400 on that. to live out [laughter]
of that camper because I can't afford a
house. Um, so I am keeping that since I
do live in it. I have $2,200 worth of
medical bills that I had no idea were in
collections. And then I have $12,000
worth of student loans. However, those
do not get forgiven with bankruptcy. So,
I will still continue that payment. And
then I have about $7,700 worth of credit
card debt. All coming into a grand total
of $91,300.
>> First of all, okay, yes, it is harder to
get into a home. Now, yes, a large down
payment is difficult to get to. Uh,
interest is not great on a house. How in
the world does she think she's possibly
possibly going to Sorry, I don't mean to
scream. She You're not a guest on my
show. Why does she think in in what
world does she think she is ever going
to get to home ownership if she's
getting camper, motorcycle, and a
$50,000 car? $50,000 car when she's
moving to a brand new state. This is
This is so American. We are so debt
brainbroken. And she's actually right. I
mean, bankruptcy is actually not that
hard, not that brutal, a little
expensive, but it's really not the
worst. It [ __ ] your credit for a bit,
and it's not a good learning lesson.
People usually end up in the same
situation they are without changing
their behavior before going through
bankruptcy. So, but she is right on
that. But how did she ever expect? She
can't get sympathy of not buying a house
if she's getting a camper, motorcycle,
and car, of which minimum payments on
the camper uh on the motorcycle and car
are likely over $1,000 together. like
$1,000 going against anyone's income
unless you're like in the top 1% is
going to aggressively prevent you from
saving anything. Remember, she can get
an FHA loan on her first house. She can
get what is that as low as 1.5%
something like that down on your first
house. Um how how would she how was she
surprised? You can't get anywhere. And
that also is really stupid getting a
trailer instead of renting an apartment
cuz she's she's getting debt on a
depreciating asset.
It's almost even worse because an
expense could pop up. Have to get new
tires. She has to pay rent anyway,
likely to park somewhere and get the
utilities plugged in.
>> Uh, no. She's America summed up.
>> What other hidden cost of bankruptcy
that no one wants to talk about?
>> Uh, I mean, usually it cost a cost a
couple thousand bucks to go through it.
Go through the process and get a lawyer
on your side. Um, some court filings.
Um, there is the credit impact. There is
the credit impact. 7 to 10 years
depending. And with that, that could
really make it more expensive to get
into an apartment cuz that's usually
instead of just as a security deposit,
you might have to do first month last
month cuz that includes rent, not just
buying.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just rent instead of just
doing a security deposit like someone
with a decent credit score, you might
have to do first month last month as
well, which makes it very burdensome to
get into an apartment. But you're a
risk, you're a riskier person. then you
have bankruptcy and a lot of people have
apartment collections. So, it's not
surprising they would request that.
>> Um, you'd have to get into a predatory
car loan. If your car breaks down, you
don't have money. You have to get a 25%
interest rate car just on a horrible
like 8-year term and it's probably some
piece of [ __ ] car that you buy for 20 is
worth 15 before it's even driven off.
[gasps] Uh, then the credit cards you
get, you're not getting the the good
intro 0% cards. You're like, you're
getting credit one cards at 29% with
monthly fees even if you pay on time.
So, you just get access to the worst
services in the world of debts. You're
not getting approved for decent personal
loans. And again, like I said, the most
important thing, bankruptcy doesn't
actually fix anything unless you fix
your behavior. Because just like
consolidating your debt or transferring
to another credit card or um even
letting things go to collections and
negotiating them, just like just like
all those bankruptcy,
if you do not change the your behavior
that got you into that situation in the
first place, you will literally end up
right back there again in a few years.
Invey
multiple times and now they're heading
there again
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What's the biggest misconception people
have about why humans end up in debt?
Um, well, a lot of it, and it's not
necessarily a misconception, but it's
the wrong way to look at it, is because
of an emergency. Like, yeah, if you have
zero dollars, something happens, you
would have to probably go into debt for
that. But people don't look at what
happened before then. They were living
their life, spending whatever they
wanted on fund. They never saved up even
a one month emergency fund or a highest
deductible coverage. They didn't save up
anything. So, of course, when an
emergency happens, you're going to go
into debt. But it wasn't the emergency
that did that. It was you living your
life, not saving up even a threemonth
emergency fund, which I would recommend
six, by the way. But it's not saving
that got you into that emergency debt,
not the emergency itself. It was your
behavior before that emergency.
>> Yeah. It I don't know. It seems to me
like a lot of financial success, it has
a knowledge component of understanding
the physics of the system, but a huge
part of it is emotional regulation. Mhm.
>> What's the relative amount of knowledge
versus emotional regulation when it
comes to being good with money?
>> Depends where someone comes from. I
mean, so I'm in a place of privilege.
Now, you could say I have information
and yet I look like this. I know what it
takes to lose this. This is know this is
this is I have the knowledge. This is
all behavior at this point. I got the
tits. I got the tits cuz I'm choosing
that.
>> Some people pay for them.
>> Some people do. I would pay to lose
>> You got yours free.
>> Yes. I'd pay to lose them, but instead
I'm just not doing the work that would
be required to lose it. I have the
knowledge, don't have the behavior. Yes.
So, there are people in those financial
situations. There are going to be the
people that come from a very different
life, incredibly low income, no
opportunity in their neighborhoods, no
people to look up to, maybe even bad
internet, so they don't even get to
watch the same podcast as us, don't have
a good library to go read a good
personal finance book. Um, and I don't
want to just victimize someone or
infantilize someone. But there are
harder situations to come from. Doesn't
mean they can't get out of it. It just
might be a little more difficult and you
need to surround yourself with the right
people. Do you find it difficult when
somebody comes in front of you? And a
lot of the time it is because of
decisions that someone has made and this
illustrious uh
like
tailwind that you've had of all of these
people that have made bad decisions and
then somebody comes in front of you who
has come from a situation which has put
them so far on the back foot
financially. Do you sometimes find it
hard to change gears with them as
opposed to sort of pointing the finger
too much to actually be like, "Oh, I I
see you. I see you in this problem that
you're going through and that you've
been you've been put into.
>> Yeah. I mean, we really only allow
people on the show where it's their
fault cuz it's a personal behavior show.
So, anyone that complains about the
people on our show saying that, well,
they can't control that. No, everyone
that comes on our show, they can
control. If someone applies and it's
something out of their control,
something like an incredible medical
diagnosis, that's where we send them
like a page of resources and like if we
can connect you with anyone, let us
know. But it doesn't make sense for
financial audit because financial audit
is about personal change. So we just we
just don't have those people cuz that's
not the conversation.
>> Yeah. What going back to personality
traits, what do you think are the
personality traits that predict
financial success?
>> That predict financial success.
Certainly being discipline. I mean
discipline comes down to everything. Um
everything in the world of budgeting
comes from or money comes from budgeting
and budgeting is all about discipline.
So, you know, that's why we created
DollarWise, that personal finance app,
that budgeting app that is made for the
everyman, not just like the, you know,
super financial nerds who want to use
things like WAB, things like that that
are incredibly difficult to use. Um,
they have the discipline to actually log
into that app, connect their accounts to
their banks, see where things are going,
and take the actions on the advice
that's given to them based on their
actual financial information that's
plugged in. Without the discipline,
even a tool like dollar wise that is
incredibly useful to changing people's
lives, you got nothing. It's
>> like you could be tracking all of your
calories using macroactor or something,
but if you're not going to change what
you're eating, it doesn't make a
difference.
>> Yeah. It's discipline. If you people
people are excited when they leave
financial audit or they watch Financial
Audit and even me like a diet, even me
like a diet. If you did a fitness audit
on me, I might be excited for a couple
weeks. Then, you know, if you don't have
the discipline, sometimes you fall back.
It's easy to have a fire under your ass
for a couple weeks. M
>> uh if you don't have that discipline for
the long term, it's difficult. It really
is.
>> What does debt do to someone's identity?
>> Well, unfortunately, it turns a lot of
people into victims that they're really
not. Um, a lot of people have more
control than they're really willing to
admit. What does it do to their
identity? That's interesting.
Some people use debt to improve their
identity more than anything. you know,
pulling up, you really care what the
person next to you at the stoplight
thinks about your car. I don't know why
people care about that. I've never cared
about that. Um, a lot of people use debt
to get the clothes that make them look
good, the jewelry that makes them look
good. Unfortunately, actually, that
quality tends to come from lower income
communities anyway. It's kind of crazy
how that works, but um people use debt
to change their identity. But then
people also use their identity of debt
to put themselves in a place of
victimhood and like, oh, I'm in debt. I
can't I can't do anything. I may as well
just spend the money. I already have the
credit card debt. Let me just put it on
a credit card again. What's an extra $10
going to do to $5,000? And the answer is
not much, but it's a death of a thousand
cuts. They just think that over and over
again.
>> Mhm. Yeah. It's a very strange sort of
death debt spiral where the sunk cost
fallacy of this is already bad. What
does it matter if it's a bit worse? And
also, if you're stressed with finances,
>> you probably want something that makes
you feel a bit less shitty. And
>> that could be food. I'm going to sedate
myself from my financial troubles by
further ingraining myself into my
financial troubles, which also becomes a
spiral of itself.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that was totally me in
college, you know, when I had a lot of
bad debt. Uh, car debt, student loans,
private student loans, multiple credit
cards, and family debt. I absolutely
went to McDonald's, swiped the Chase
Freedom card, getting it close to maxing
out constantly, and cuz it felt good.
>> What did it matter? It was basically
maxed out anyway. What's an actual maxed
out credit card going to do?
>> Do you think lifestyle inflation's
become a bigger problem than inflation
itself?
>> Oo, bigger problem. I wouldn't say it's
a good question. You're a professional
podcast host. That's nice. Damn. Um, I'd
say inflation is worse overall. I'd say
worse overall because that impacts
everyone. That's such a choice, right?
Such a choice. But I'd say on a on a
personal level, yeah. No, that's bad.
That's bad. That's going to that's going
to [ __ ] you over when someone gets the
20%. No, no one gets a 20% raise. Okay.
when someone gets a 5% raise but
increases their spending 6%. You know
that that is very common on our show.
You know what's interesting? People on
Financial Audit that are doing worse are
the highest income earning episodes.
People often um you know you open the
show with uh getting death threats and
stuff. Death threats and it's kind of
minimal but we do get lots of complaints
and stuff about the show. One of our
biggest complaints is you know I'm
yelling and making fun of poor people.
>> Those are actually the people I usually
make fun of and yell at the least. It is
the high income earners that if they
just fix a couple things, they can get
out of debt pretty quickly, but they
also get into worse debt because they
have a higher income, so they get
approved for more debt. They're always
the worst off. They lifestyle inflate. I
swear the closer they get from 100 to
200 to even a half a million dollars a
year, the worse debt, the more credit
cards, the more time shares, the more
cars, the more [ __ ] they have. It's
It's impressive. It's so bad. It feels,
I think, probably incredible to a lot of
people that you could earn half a
million a year and have a bad financial
situation,
>> which I wouldn't be surprised if the
majority in the United States didn't who
make that much.
>> Why?
>> Yeah, have a half a million. Go get
yourself the nice house. Go get yourself
the nice car, the nice clothes. Why not?
You worked hard. Deserve it. It's in our
culture. We want We're consumers. Do you
think that uh the things that richer
people waste money on are different to
the things that poorer people waste
money on?
>> Absolutely. I'm trying to get over my
fear of flights and I guess I'm rich
now, so that's nice. Knock on wood with
all
>> Does that help you get over your fear of
flights?
>> I rented a PJ. Tell me. That's a waste
of money.
>> Easier or easier or harder?
>> So, it's a control thing for me. I don't
like being stuck in a situation that I
can't control.
>> Do you know how to fly the PJ? No, but I
can say let's land. I can't do that with
a commercial.
>> Uh, well, you can you could make a big
enough fuss that you would like, but it
would be a real headache
>> and bad for my career, too. So,
>> that would be a real headache.
>> Yeah. But like, um, so I pause.
>> Yeah.
>> What was the first time with your travel
anxiety getting on a PJ? Like,
>> [snorts]
>> um, it was Oh, the PJ itself, it was
actually really bad when we filmed it,
too. [laughter]
We filmed it. It's on the internet. I
burst down in tears. It's really bad.
>> I'm sorry, man.
>> Oh, [ __ ] It was It was anxiety. Like,
that's not
>> Yeah, I don't think that you should
dismiss it like that. So,
>> but it's not like something bad happened
to me, right? Like, anxiety is make
believe. It's like it's not real. My
brain thinks it's real, but it's not.
So, I was crying. I was sad. But, you
know what was actually making me more
sad and crying? A lot of people thought
it was out of pure terror. It was
remembering a lot of the things that I
haven't done. A lot of the family I
haven't visited because of my fear of
travel.
>> Grief. As much grief as it was anxiety.
So, interesting point here. There's a
guy called Vinnie Shawman who's a
hypnotist in the UK.
>> I have a friend, my friend's name is Sky
King. Sky King, right? This guy lived in
Hawaii
>> while he was a kid. Flies all around the
world. Loves Asia. Been to Japan a bunch
of times. Out of nowhere, just develop
travel anxiety. M
>> bad travel anxiety. Tried to get on a
plane, couldn't
>> bailed out. Tried to get on a plane,
couldn't bail. I think this happened
maybe six, eight, maybe 10 times. And I
put him in touch with Vinnie. Now, some
people have better results with
hypnotism. Some people have worse. In a
single session, Vinnie fixed his travel
anxiety. And I don't know what the full
story is, but I know that the Simpsons
theme tune is an integral part of the
anchoring for how he gets over his
travel anxiety.
>> Interesting.
>> And uh that was real. That was like it's
a [ __ ] cool gift to give somebody to
like unlock that. But I I know what you
mean, Ang. There is nothing wrong
rationally in terms of the utilitarian
approach view of the universe. there is
nothing happening but your felt
experience of I'm getting on this jet
that I've paid money for that's kind of
a momentous occasion for me it's this
landmark as a person who talks about
money doing something that's kind of
canonical in everybody that has money's
life
>> and my experience of that has been
tarnished by the fact that I've got this
thing that isn't me that I don't want in
me and is kind of behind the steering
wheel a little bit I think that's I
think that makes sense
>> but it was nice cuz I was working with a
panic therapist at the time and just
started working with him again Thank
goodness cuz I need to get over this
thing. Uh and he didn't let me get off
like like
>> was he with you?
>> Of course I Yes. So I brought him
>> You brought your panic therapist on the
the jet with you.
>> It was our plan. You know, we kind of
>> Oh, it wasn't like an intervention or
something.
>> Well, actually technically I hired him
the day before, so we already decided,
but yeah. Um so we brought him with us.
He's really cool. And I'm working with
him now again and we have we have a game
plan uh to get over it. But um yeah, it
was it was it was really simple. It was
Austin to San Antonio, so it was
nothing. I just I wanted to get on a
plane again cuz I was just preventing
myself from getting on a plane. So
that's a very quick flight.
>> How long had it been since you were on a
plane?
>> The decade at least. Wow.
>> Yeah. So mostly road trips places, but
even that still gives me kind of
anxiety.
>> Um which is just it's just I hate it. Um
>> um but you know, we have a game plan.
We're doing some things. I want to go be
on some more shows. I mean, dude, if
some people's exposure therapy is we
just need to get a spider and put it in
the corner of the room,
>> your exposure therapy requires a private
jet.
>> Exactly.
>> It's a slightly higher bar. It's just as
well that you're rich
>> because if you weren't,
>> you'd be [ __ ] with this thing.
>> Exactly. Exactly. What really sucks is
the same exact model of private jet I
was in just crashed in Laredo, Texas
yesterday and a CEO in Austin, Texas
died on it. So that's like kind of
[sighs]
[ __ ] with me.
>> That plus Oliver Tree, there aren't many
forms of
>> air transport that are feeling pretty
safe right now.
>> Yeah. The next one's a commercial. We're
doing a commercial next. We're doing
some long road trips to
>> I would book, if I was you, I would try
and get maybe your row and then one
behind, one in front.
>> I was thinking that
>> just in case there's a,
you know, one of those.
>> I just didn't want to fly around people.
But yeah.
>> Oh, that's also nice. That's also nice.
Uh, so you've got some anxious, panicky
tendencies.
>> Yeah. Really just that one thing.
>> You built you built a show which is
essentially high stakes live
confrontation.
>> Right. With strangers about their most
shameful secrets.
>> Yeah.
>> You're someone who has panic attacks.
>> You run a show that gives other people
panic attacks.
>> Yep.
>> Is that a coincidence or is this just
like the most elaborate exposure therapy
ever?
>> It's great. I mean, that's what people
have to go through. They have to go
through it. What's actually nice is
because of mine and I'm uh you know
working with my guy for a while now like
I can actually work through them pretty
well and now if someone actually does
have a legitimate panic attack on the
show I can help them through which is
pretty nice.
>> Oh we just pause the cameras and do that
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>> What is your process? Somebody is
sitting opposite you. You're pushing.
You're pushing. You're pushing.
>> They're realizing how
actually just explain to me what you
think is happening inside of them,
inside of their mind. Somebody's got a
lot of debt. Maybe they've been hiding
from it. Like what's their emotion
before? What do they get to? And then
I'm interested in what you do to
bring them back into land as well.
Usually I can tell they kind of just go
flatfaced in that moment. Like they they
disengage, their eyes kind of go blank
and maybe even like a little bluish. Um
and I'm like, "Oh shit." Okay. So we
just literally pause. I'm like, "Hey,
you okay?" You know, I go from the crazy
voice to like just down chill like,
"Hey, you okay? Remember?" You know,
it's like, of course, they know what's
like real and everything, but I'm like,
"Yeah, we can take a pause. You know,
you can take a break." And then I help
them if they're like actually having
anxiety attack, I'll do like a breathing
exercise real quick. It's like three in,
six out. And um that's pretty rare these
days, but uh and we definitely have
people that need to do like a lap around
the building, a producer will take them
or they need to go outside and hit a
vape.
>> Is that rare, do you think? Yeah, hit a
vape. That's good. That's why Jared, I
need a [ __ ] e-pipe. For the people
that are listening, I require I want to
be able to come up with I want to be
able to pontificate. Uh but I want to be
able to do it with nicotine. So, if
anyone can find me a pipe that looks
legitimate like this, but I can have
some nicotine and that would be lovely.
Um,
I wonder whether part of the reason that
you're not inducing as many panic
attacks is because you're getting soft
in your old age.
>> You think so?
>> Yeah. I wonder whether it's because
you've taken your foot off the gas.
>> I just threw something at someone the
other day. [laughter]
[gasps]
>> You'd be [ __ ] here. There's so many
projectiles. There's so many potential
projectiles. Some of them are heavy as
well.
>> No, honestly, I am proud of it. I think
our our onboarding process is so
thorough. We've had people that have uh
come to work with us or people that
interviewed with us that have worked for
like Dr. Phil and a lot of other type
shows. Dr. Phil's close in Dallas, so
that's why him specifically. But they go
through our process and they're like,
"This is crazy. I've never seen an
onboarding process like this at all."
Cuz usually for like I'm not speaking
Dr. Phil at all. Don't sue me. But many
shows like that daytime TV, they don't
give a [ __ ] about their guests. But we
actually really care because one,
they're members of our audience. So, a
little selfish there. Okay. A little
selfish. I want members of our
>> kill them. You're going to reduce the
audience size.
>> Yes. Exactly. And I want them to do
well. Whether that's, you know, you
could look at it from two perspectives.
Pretend like you hate me and I'm the
selfest piece of [ __ ] ever. Fine. Take
that. Obviously, I want them to do well
because it proves spite of me or do it
because of me.
>> It shows that it works. It shows that
the show works. So selfish about how
what the mechanism is can be because you
don't like me. I'm an [ __ ] want to
prove me wrong saying that I don't think
that you're going to be able to turn it
around or because you love me and you
think that my advice is worth listening
to and you turn it around.
>> Yeah. And or there's the second option
where it's and that's the real option
that I actually really do care about how
they succeed. So I really want them to
do well and the average guest pays off.
It's just over like $20,000 in 12 months
of debt after coming on financial audit.
That's our most recent annual report. We
do one every December.
How much of that impact that you have on
people's debt do you think is because of
the knowledge that you give to them? And
how much do you think is because of the
intensity of the emotional discomfort
that you put them through?
>> Yeah, I it's a mixture of both. There is
the that tough love, crazy and fun
approach of it. Like I think often times
90% of the time they're having a good
time too. Like they know the craziness
of the show. So, but they have fun and
uh that's not for everyone, but I'll
don't come on the show if it's not for
you. So, it's like a show I would
actually personally go on when I was in
debt, it would have worked for me.
Someone screaming at me, that works for
me. It worked for me when I played
sports, you know, it it's whatever. It
works for me. Um, and then we set them
up with lots of tools afterwards. They
get dollarized for free forever, no
matter what. They get all of our
personal finance courses. They get a
certification through course careers to
help with their jobs. They get access
any kind of resource that we're working
with third party, they get access to.
So, we try to give them everything and
then we check in with them.
>> I don't remember the exact dates, but
it's like the day their episode goes
live, a week after that, a month after
that, then 3 months after that, and we
do two updates a week with former guests
on our in our Hammer Elite membership.
Um, and we're endlessly checking in with
them with surveys and we tell them to
reach out anytime they want. So, there's
the mixture of the show and that lights
a fire under their ass and the post
filming support as well,
>> postcoidal care process.
>> Yeah. Uh, I did Love Island 11 years ago
and uh, famously the UK series, I don't
know whether it's happened in America
yet, but the UK series of Love Island
has killed more people than any other TV
show. Like, two past stars took their
own lives. One of whom was a really good
friend of mine.
>> That's crazy.
>> Then the [ __ ] host
took her own life. Caroline Caroline
Flack. Yeah. I just I once h that's
strange twice you're like uh three times
including the host you're like there's a
[ __ ] pattern here. Uh but one of the
issues and this was something that I saw
especially I think Love Island broke the
app store when it came out. It was the
number one app in the world above chat
GBT above [ __ ] Claude. Uh and like
there was shutdowns on servers and [ __ ]
like 300,000 concurrent downloads at a
moment like download the app to watch I
don't know what I don't know what you do
voting on it or something maybe. and um
the postshow care
routine thing cuz I did the f I was the
first person through the doors of the
first ever episode.
>> Wow.
>> Right. Of the first season. So
>> they were we were the the guinea pig. We
were the first child where you make all
of the mistakes. You drink when you're
pregnant. You smoke in like you [ __ ]
forget to feed it for 12 hours. Like all
of that stuff. And um
once you finish up, you should have a
support system as you get thrust back
out into the world. Now, the first
season that I did was like way smaller.
It was 10 times smaller than season 2,
which was 10 times smaller than season
3, which it really sort of took off on
that exponential, but had it have been
even a bit more exposed, there was the
least amount of postshow support,
>> uh even though it was that much smaller,
the post show support was basically
non-existent. And then each time that
one of those incidents occurred, you
could tell that uh ITV, which is the the
company in the UK that was put, it's
channel 3 in the UK, right? They have
channel 3 and channel 7. And um every
single time that one of these horrible
horrible situations happened, everybody
got an email just reminding you that you
have access to the safety and care team
whenever I'm like, dude,
>> [ __ ] too late, man. You know, like
something about the horse bolting in the
door being closed, but
>> the fact So probably didn't get the
opportunity when walking out of the
island to be like, "Hey, if I do this,
make sure it's not in the episode."
>> So it's like you you were [ __ ] like you
control the edit. Exactly. You do not
control the edit and the entire universe
is watching you and commenting on you.
And then what's matter is you come out
because it's recorded and published
live, but you only enter back into the
world once it's happened. You have no
idea what's made the edit. You have no
idea what people think of you. You could
come out and be the hero or the most
hated person in your country. It's
[ __ ] crazy.
>> Yeah. Should I get into that? Everyone's
doing that. Everyone's doing these
pouches.
>> Uh
>> would I be like so locked in,
>> dude? No. That's scary. Get them.
>> I'm asking for advice first before I go
full.
>> Those are mine. So those ones are That's
just caffeine. That's just 50 50
milligrams of caffeine. These these are
very healthy for better for you
nicotine. Those are knickknacks. So,
that's
>> everyone in the world is doing pouches
right now. Like, how locked in would I
be?
>> I have a bit of an oral fixation, which
I'm sure that the uh people that think
I'm gay on the internet are going to
love to hear me say. Um, have we got any
toothpicks? JB, can you get if you're
outside, Jonathan, can you bring some
toothpicks in from the cupboard, please?
I want to show those. Just something to
[ __ ] dick about with while you're
working, I think, is very important. So,
if you got a pen or whatever, sometimes
you try I could get the pipes.
>> I bite my fingernails. That's my thing.
>> That'll do you. Um what what income
level do people's financial problems
fundamentally change?
>> I'm not saying it's behavior. It's fully
behavior. Again, like I said, um the
worst situations I've seen in the entire
show are high income earners. Absolutely
horrible. So, I I'd say never. It gives
you more opportunity to get out of a bad
situation. But I wouldn't say the income
levels, everyone thinks when they make
the next $10,000 and their income, their
entire life's going to change.
>> Their spending changes, but if their
behavior is the same, if their
inclinations are the same, their lack of
discipline is the same, they're actually
just going to be in a worse situation.
So, I would actually argue that if
behavior doesn't change at the more
income level, your situation might
actually get worse
>> because you now are playing with bigger
chips on the table. Yes. And if you're
[ __ ] it up, you've got more access. I
never thought about that. It's such a
good point that you've got more access
to credit.
>> People think uh banks, credit cards
think that you are a safer bet because
of that. You can [ __ ] yourself harder.
>> Yeah. And I guess I'll put an asterisk
on my statement. There is like you got
to hit a bas basic minimum level, right?
Like if you can't pay for like the
cheapest rent in the area, put food on
the table, utilities, then obviously
anyone that's not making up to that
point, yeah, that's a threshold where
it's like game changer cuz you're just
like surviving. But if you can't even
hit the survival, like that's not even
in the conversation. But typically, we
don't really allow for that that much in
this country and western society. I
mean, you'll see it, but you know, we
have lots of uh uh child support
services for low income, uh food
support, um housing support. It's not
perfect. No one's going to argue it's
perfect, but we do have a lot of a lot
of social programs to help those people
that are in those lower.
>> Uh friend of the show, Ice Coffee Hour
Boys, had Kevin Olirri on and he gave
some
>> insight about where he thinks different
levels of income impact your lifestyle.
You pull that up for me, Jared. Look at
this.
>> What would you say are the main four
tiers of wealth where if you hit a
certain amount, life?
>> Well, I tell everybody this. You should
strive very hard if you're an
entrepreneur to have $5 million in tea
bills. Not in anything else, just tea
bills, making 3.82% this morning. You
know you've made it and you've
safeguarded your family for the rest of
your life if you can get $5 million
liquid in tea bills. Most people that
consider themselves very successful
entrepreneurs do not have $5 million
liquid in T bills. They don't. But what
net worth should you be at to h to
justify 5 million in T bills?
>> Well, you should be at the first thing
you should do is get to 5 million liquid
be worth $5 million liquid. That's far
more valuable than anything else.
Liquidity with wealth is actually a
superpower. Most people say I'm very
wealthy, but they couldn't raise a
million dollars by 2:00 in the afternoon
if they tried. It's tied up in all kinds
of things they think are worth a lot
until the [ __ ] hits the fan. The plan
is, if you're an entrepreneur, the
hardest thing is to make the first
million really hard. And when you make
the first million, put it in tea bills.
Just as hard, but not as hard, is to get
to 2 million. Two to three is actually
quite easy because you figured something
out. But where you get undisiplined is
you start buying [ __ ] you don't need cuz
your managers get to 5 million liquid. I
you have to have 5 million liquid to
call yourself a successful entrepreneur.
And I don't care who say who who
disagrees with me, they're wrong.
>> I guess I'll be wrong. I mean, no, I I
agree. One of one of the first goals I
had was to get to 5 million as quick as
I could and but invested in the stock
market. I don't really understand get
your first million, put it in low
indexing uh T bill T bill
>> like treasury, right? So, I'm not really
understanding like putting it in bonds
or something like it just makes sense.
If if you make your first million and
you're young, let it grow in the
marketplace at an average of 8 to 10%.
That makes more sense. I mean, I I guess
if you're approaching like 60 and you
make your first million off of a
business being successful, yeah, put it
in something more conservative. But if
you have time on your side, unless
America collapses, like the stock
market's going to do
>> over a long enough time horizon, you'll
weather any of the little wobbles.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, um, but I do agree
with that 5 million mark cuz that 5
million mark, if you do the 4% rule,
it's 4% of 5 million. I think what is
that? $60,000 a year, something like
that. So, you live a good middle class
income off of that using the 4% rule.
So, that works. So, that was one of my
first big goals. It's I don't like the
idea of taking the first million you
make and then literally just not letting
it grow past inflation. That doesn't
make any sense. If if you're getting
your first million, you should let it
work, have it work for you in the stock
market. I'm not saying reinvest it
immediately into the business. And
certainly, he's correct where people
start getting money and they start
blowing it. He's 100% correct on that.
It's just weird to take the first
million, put it into something low
index, especially if you're young.
[clears throat]
>> Is there a financial milestone that
creates the most happiness for people?
>> Um,
yeah. A lot of the happiness that can be
achieved through wealth, like you can't
buy friends, you can't buy family. So, a
lot of the happiness
that can actually be achieved through
wealth, I'd say if you can cover,
if you can weather practically any
emergency, including like a cancer
diagnosis, something really bad, if you
can,
>> how much money is that?
>> Uh,
I mean, honestly, I think that 5 million
is a good marker. That 5 million is a
good marker. You can really start
pulling into it for, you know, a few
years if it's like really aggressive,
really bad, and you want to go to the
best in the world. Um,
so with that, you know, you can weather
anything. You can, even if you blow
through the five, hopefully you make it
to the other side and you can start
bouncing back. But that gives you
unlimited flexibility. You don't get to
do the crazy things that are super fun.
You don't get to do the you can't buy a
PJ. I can't buy a PJ. I can rent a short
little trip. But, um, I don't think
that's what drives happiness. It's a fun
thing, moment of happiness. But, I think
the true happiness that you actually can
buy is security. And 5 million is a
really good number to get to.
>> It sounds like a massive number for
people to feel financially secure.
>> Yeah. But, you know, you can weather
literally practically anything.
>> That's the question. Like, you can
weather almost everything uh with a few
hundred,000 hours set aside. You can,
you know, take a while to find a new job
if you have a few hundred thousand. But
I'm saying if I'm really thinking like
you can weather anything, 5 million is a
great number to have.
>> Mhm. Yeah. I I totally didn't think
about the fact that you can afford to
invest in specifically the S&P, any kind
of tracker
if you're younger because there's going
to be some movements. There's going to
be periods of downturn, but over a long
enough time horizon. And I mean, if the
S&P goes to [ __ ] zero, there's much
bigger problems than what you're doing
with your money.
>> Yeah. We'll be killing each other.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
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That's drinklnt.com/modern
wisdom. How much shame surrounds debt?
And do you think that shame hurts people
or helps people change?
>> I think it it's pretty damaging that in
our culture talking about money is
shameful in general. Uh and in debt, I
mean, I think it's good to have a good
laugh on a Tik Tok short, things like
that. That's fine. But I think if we
have a whole system where people feel
shameful to even bring up their close
friends, their family, or even their
therapist that they're in a bad
financial situation, they're not going
to get that emotional support. they're
not going to get that encouragement that
they actually need to change cuz they'll
just be weathering it themselves. That's
a very difficult thing. You don't want
to, again going back to even just the
cancer thing, you don't want to be going
through that yourself. It's almost
impossible. You need support. Anything
you go through, any kind of support
system is good. And if we have a massive
level of shame around it, which I would
say in our
country, in our society, we definitely
have. People aren't even willing to say
what they make. Yep. you know, they're
like embarrassed or they're afraid of
making it too much and people look down
on them for like they'll be jealous, you
know. So, there's a lot of shame around
personal finances in our society. And I
think that's pretty damaging.
>> It's interesting as a British person, we
have shame, but in the opposite
direction. We have shame about talking
about how much we make. If we make a
good wage,
>> everyone's poor there
>> because there is such a strong poppy
syndrome that if you're seen to be too
big for your boots or doing too well,
that can often cause way more eye. It's
like an interesting I understand why
people would feel personal shame around
talking about being in a bad position
financially. What does this say about me
as a human? What does this say about my
habits? Maybe people are going to think
less of me. But there is a like a a
pro-social [ __ ] that person's down bad.
Hey man, like I I really want to help
you as opposed to dude, I just got this
new job and I got a I got a 30% pay
increase. I can't believe I I've been
working so hard for this for a long
time. If that's not someone that's got
your best interest at heart, that
triggers in them not pity, which is not
an emotion that people want to feel, but
it induces envy, which is way more
active. You know, that's the sort of
thing that can get you ostracized from a
friend group. And again, this isn't
everybody. I've got amazing friends in
the UK, but I met a million people
running nightclubs. I was a had one of
the biggest events companies in the UK
for a long time. met a million people,
right, in person with a tight pair of
jeans on, holding a clipboard, giving
out wristbands and free champagne. I had
a handful of close friends that I could
talk to openly about everything that was
going on, successes, failures, all the
rest of it.
>> That's good.
>> That's not a great friend exposure to
conversion funnel, right? A million
people, handful of friends.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And that's why at least
>> you had them though, you know.
>> That's No, a lot of people don't.
>> That's true. Yeah. And as an only child
that was like, [ __ ] like I've got some
people that have got me and that's cool.
>> Uh just the UK is a very inhospitable
environment for people that are trying
to uh do things financially. I got this
line. I wonder whether you agree with
it. Uh the UK is a great country to be
poor in and a terrible country to be
rich in. And America is a terrible
country to be poor in and a great
country to be rich in.
>> Yeah. I mean, a lot of poor people move
to and stay in the UK. a lot of wealthy
people leave. I'd say the analytics just
follow that in general.
>> Bingo. [ __ ] nailed it, dude. Forget
the py maxims. I just dialed the entire
financial industry. Um I there's there's
a a safety net in the UK which moving to
America to me feels
like quite brutal. Uh quite like
>> why leave the Council of State?
>> It's comfy.
>> It is. National Health Service. I've got
this stat. Britain spends more on
working age welfare every year than it
collects in income tax.
>> Yeah.
>> Working age welfare. And the difference
gets borrowed every single year.
>> Yeah. It's insane. And all the
productive people that would actually
contribute to the tax base are leaving.
The the wealth drain, the brain drain in
the United Kingdom is I feel bad for
your country. That's honestly it's a
place where I mean the majority of my
life I wouldn't have considered moving
there but there was a part where I was
like this would be the best place to go
living cuz you get the cool walkability
of Europe and like the nice you know
okay winter and nice summer
>> and it's your language. Exactly. So I
wanted to kind of go there for a bit.
It's gone.
>> I don't I if the UK comes back it'll be
the biggest comeback story in the
history of civilization. But
>> yeah we're like 90 down at the moment.
Yeah. In a game of football,
>> there are, you know, I mean, there is
the conversation where it's like, yeah,
GDP per capita, there would be 51st
state. Did you see that?
>> Yep.
>> Yeah.
>> I got a lot of [ __ ] for putting that.
>> Well, that's true. But there also are
>> I got a lot of [ __ ] from Americans.
>> Well, Americans are [ __ ] I don't
know. Americans are rich and [ __ ]
but there are some other true things.
The UK when it comes to safety and a lot
of things, you know, it ranks higher.
So, there's not just like It's not all
[ __ ]
>> Yeah. It's not all [ __ ] but like no, it
is true. I mean, unfortunately, it's
going the same direction as Spain or
southern Italy, one of those places
where it's
people go there or are born there, get
educated there, and then leave to
somewhere where they can make double the
income. And why wouldn't they? We're
such a mobile world, dude. if you're
inhospitable. And this is the thing that
I understand some of my leftyle leaning
friends, Jimmy the Giant is one of them.
And he
thinks that taxing the rich, he means
like the ultra rich, he means like 100
millions plus of liquid or whatever of
held asset wealth. Um, but that that is
something that's justified. That's
something that would help to raise up
the the underclass and and people that
are unemployed and need that. But I
think the bottom 55%
of the population in both the UK and the
US are net withdrawers
>> from benefits as opposed to net
contributors.
>> Yeah.
>> Like just that statistic. Income tax in
the United States, the bottom 50% of
earners contribute 1%.
>> 50% contribute 1%. Like that's crazy.
We're a very uh progressive income tax
society in the United States. United
States is actually the most progressive
western major country for income tax.
What we don't have is VAT tax which
usually funds like the national health
service and whatnot. So in Americans
Americans, that's the fun thing about
Americans including um especially
populist Americans either left or right,
we want the Scandinavian social
programs, but we want to do it on like a
Florida tax system. Americans are not
willing to pay the actual taxes required
for the systems. And it's never about
the wealthy people paying a lot in taxes
cuz that doesn't fund it all.
>> Um it's it's all about the the flat tax,
the VAT tax, the national sales tax
where everyone has to pay an extra 1 2 3
4 5% or whatever it is on everything
they purchase. That's what funds those
social programs and the United States
would never tolerate it at a national
level. Have you ever seen what a set of
accounts for a normal limited company
that has to that's within the VAT
threshold? So I think it's £120,000 a
year £120. [ __ ] that was very
unanglicized. £120,000 a year or above
that your limited company makes and
after that point
>> your VAT reg you're registered for VA
that
>> have you ever seen one of the accounts
submissions dude it is a as somebody
that had a limited company for a decade
and a half in the UK I still do my uh
rental properties go through that
although they don't breach the threshold
so it doesn't matter
>> it is a [ __ ] nightmare each
individual transaction you charge the
person who is getting the service from
you an additional 20%, that's what VAT
is, 20%. And then you claim back that
VAT up to an amount from the government.
So it's this [ __ ] ora boros, this
endless
>> financially uh uh bureaucratically in
terms of paperwork. It's this huge
overhead. And I understand what VAT is
for. I understand that we have lots of
services that you don't have in America.
They need to be funded somehow. National
insurance. That's another type of of uh
tax that's not seen in America.
>> But if you do the math, after everything
that you get free in the United Kingdom,
if you after people pay for it and the
median income here, after the median
taxes here, after the median paying for
the private services here, we still end
up with more money in our pocket in the
end.
>> No way.
>> Yeah, it's it's pretty close, but it's
still even with the health care is one
of the biggest costs. Even though uh
health care is the single most common
reason that people go bankrupt in
America as well, I think.
>> Yeah. Which isn't surprising and
honestly people make it sound more
consequential than it is. As we talked
about earlier, bankruptcy is actually
not that even big of a deal really. It's
really not. It's it's overblown. I mean,
it's not great. I don't just like go get
bankrupt. Like that's not wonderful. But
it's like people make it sound like the
scariest thing in the world when it's
really not. But um I mean uh I looked
into that two years ago. Maybe the
numbers have changed today, but two
years ago that's what it looked like.
Can we still have like out of a major
nation? Yes, you're going to have micro
states where it's like Switzerland, you
know, much smaller. Obviously, their GDP
per capita, everything is going to be a
lot higher in those kind of places or
like Monaco, something like that. But as
far as like a major nation, large
nation, the United States like destroys
when it comes to disposable income, the
income you have after all the important
stuff after you get taxed and
everything, we just lead because we just
encourage, our system just encourages
that. But what's interesting when
talking about the United Kingdom and you
talked about uh your more left-wing
friends that like want to raise taxes
and stuff there. What's also interesting
on the left right spectrum is during the
great recession that 2008 2009 2007 um
the United Kingdom went more
conservative where the United States
went more liberal with their spending.
We pumped a lot of money into the
economy. The United Kingdom uh I had it
in my austerity. They went austerity.
>> Uh, and you can see what the outcomes
were. We went into debt for it as a
nation, but we recovered in a couple
years. The United Kingdom's GDP just
recovered from 2007, I believe, like a
year and a half ago, maybe two years
ago. Yeah. So, the their more
conservative approach of spending uh
raising taxes, cutting spending during
the recession, it failed. It objectively
failed across Europe. In the United
States, you know, Donald Trump coed a
lot of money into the economy. We're
very liberal with our spending. Yeah, we
we chuck the money in. So, it's it's you
know, we we're pretty progressive. I
mean, 50% of our federal spending, yes,
it's mandatory spending. It's not, you
know, whatever, but it's still social
spending. So, left versus right, it's
not it's not always, you know, one
side's going to always be in the right
cuz the more right-wing running of their
federal budget in the United Kingdom
failed
>> when it came to the Great Recession. It
just it destroyed it destroyed the
economy, destroyed productivity,
destroyed spending. Well, even that now
has kind of become quite squirrely
because when you talk about conservative
spending, a lot of the time that's more
pro- capitalist. They're more prepared
now to turn the money printer over. So,
it's the like existing archetypes of
what it even means to be left and right.
Pick any pick stuff about which races
you do or don't like, which cultures you
do or don't like, which religions you do
or don't want inside of your country,
like everything that you the whole like
tectonic plate underneath what used to
be stereotypes and cliches, that's all
moved. Oh, completely. I mean, you do
see it in race. It was the more uh 90s
liberal, which I'm po probably more
aligned with on this uh perspective of
we wanted a color blind society, you
know, and it was the more right-wing
people that were like, well, no, we see,
you know, they're different than us, you
know, that kind of stuff. Like, I don't
know about the '9s at that point, but
even still, that was the more '90s
liberal perspective. Now, it's the more
centrist, even right-wing position,
colorblind society, and people on the
far left, they're like, "No, we need
black dorms. we need black graduations.
We see race first no matter what.
>> Um and it's it's very interesting how
that shifted and I don't think with bad
intention to be clear. I don't think
they're evil for that. But I do think
it's um sometimes when people get to the
extremist they horseshoe around.
>> Correct. Yeah. It far left and far right
end up looking a lot closer than you'd
think.
>> Yeah.
>> That just going back to the bottom 50%
contribute 1% of the taxes. But then
when you net it down in terms of what's
given all different kind types of aid
and assistance, I think it's up to the
bottom 55% and net detractors.
>> Yeah. It doesn't economy.
>> And with we have systems made for that.
The child tax credit is made for that.
It is usually lower income people that
have more kids. That's just how it is.
And lower income people pay less taxes,
but they get the same child tax credit.
So this is more money is going to go to
them in the end. Do you think that would
surprise most people to find out that
the bottom 55% of the population are net
detractors from the benefit system as
opposed to net contributors?
>> Oh, of course, absolutely. Listen, I can
I every time I take a political compass
test, I find myself on a centrist, you
know, slightly leaning right
economically and then decently left
socially, but I had like an extreme
socialist on my show the other day.
Episode's not out yet. And I was talking
to her and I was like, "How much does
the top 1% pay in taxes?" She says,
"Nothing. They pay 0%." I'm like, "No,
it's like 30% of all income taxes. Top
10% pays like uh 50%, top 50% pays 99%.
It blew her mind. She has no idea
because we're in such misinformation
algorithmically defined
places on the internet. There was a
study done uh by some elite university
um on the east coast where they were
researchers were going into Tik Tok and
engaging with leftwing content and then
a different one would do right-wing
content. And Tik Tok immediately found
out in about 3 minutes whether you
wanted if you're anti-men or it pro-
left or anti-woman or proright and they
would just put you into that camp where
all of a sudden all the information you
got all the content you watch was the
extreme version of that and that's all
you were getting
>> uh cuz you show you engage with that and
if you engage with that they want to
give you more so you stay on their
platform. It makes sense from their
business perspective. So it's not
surprising at all that people wouldn't
be aware of that information if it goes
against their worldview. Mhm. I've
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wisdom. I don't know, man. I don't know
what financial education, what good
financial education looks like because
the incentives aren't necessarily
aligned for somebody who feels like
they're really struggling, who's
comparing where they are financially to
where they think their parents were at
their age, where they think everybody
else is at their age, what they think
that they should have. So past
generations, other people and my
idealized version of where I want to be.
All of that bundled together, you
saying, well actually the top 1% of
earners, they contribute 30% of the
taxes and the bottom 50%, they're
actually net detractors from the the
system of the
>> that doesn't make me feel any better.
Like it's not a comfort to me to take a
macro perspective when my micro
experience sucks.
>> Yeah. I mean, that's that's why
financial audits about the perspective
of the individual and their
responsibilities and what they can
change because, you know, some people
comment, "Why aren't you talking about
the systems that [ __ ] them in the
first place?" And I'm like, "That's not
what the show can change. You can go
vote.
>> Congratulations. You contributed to
changing the system that you want to
do." But the reality is
on that show, only one person can change
what's happening in that person's life
immediately, and that's that individual.
So, you're right. talking about the
system, it it doesn't help anyone on
that personal level. It's the actual
choices there. There and there is good
news. The United States is actually
taking um a pretty important step
towards it. We're close to 40 states
that now require a personal financial
education course to graduate high
school. It's close to 40 states. It
wasn't even half of America just a
couple years ago. So, they're really
>> syllabus. What do you think of the
syllabus? I haven't looked at it, but I
mean the governor of Michigan came on
the show and you know she wanted to talk
about it and you know uh she's Democrat,
she's probably going to run for
president and I was very impressed with
how much she actually cared about making
sure people needed to learn about basic
personal finances before graduating high
school. I think that's important and I'm
glad to see that we're doing that as a
country. Now, I don't know about you. I
don't know what the grade system is like
out there in the United Kingdom, but I
was a [ __ ] [ __ ] who didn't give a
[ __ ] about school. I would have done
whatever the minimum thing required to
pass that school and I would have or
that class and I wouldn't have learned
anything if I was in school.
>> Like I don't know. I other than the
things I was actually interested in,
which is mostly history classes and
music classes at that time. I did the
basic bare minimum to pass and I
wouldn't have learned anything. So there
is that consequence, but at least we're
trying.
>> If you were to put together a syllabus
of principles financially to teach young
people, what would be the biggest ones?
>> It would start with budgeting because if
you can't budget, there's nothing else.
So, um, budgeting is that, you know, we
talked about the discipline, personal
responsibility, that's a little harder
to teach in school, but at least
learning how to budget a household. Uh,
starting with something like the 5030 20
method, which is 50% on needs, 30% on
wants, 20% on investing. Smallest
category is investing. You get to spend
30% of your money on [ __ ]
Obviously, that changes in places like
New York, LA, San Francisco, but that's
a good place to start from. So, teach
that concept. Teach what is a good car
loan to get. I enjoy the money guy rule.
You put 20% down, no longer than a
three-year term, and no more than 8% of
your income is the monthly payment. That
equals a car you can afford. Actually
teach the value of college and a degree
instead of saying everyone needs to go
to college and borrow as much as it
takes to get whatever degree you want at
any institution you want. and instead
teach. Okay. A good general rule is
don't get a degree of which you borrow
more for than you'll get in your
expected first year's salary. So that's
a good rule.
>> Oh, that's nice.
>> Yeah, it's a it's a good rule to just
not borrow more than you need. What's I
don't know how America stacks up in
terms of different courses at different
universities. Can you give me some
examples of low, medium, and and high
and what would be expected? Because I
there's no way. I've seen some of the
[ __ ] student debt bills.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> There's no way that somebody's going to
Some people wouldn't even earn that back
in 5 years of being at work if they had
zero costs and all of the money went
back to their student loan.
>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so strictly
thinking college, let's get rid of
trades or anything like that. Community
college, you can go there for two years,
you can get your basics out of the way.
In fact, a lot of community college, you
can get your four-year degree now at
like nursing and whatnot. uh Austin
community college here you can go for
like a thousand bucks a semester or
2,000 bucks a semester super affordable
super cheap many people can work their
way through it and that's in Austin and
it's in it's similar in other areas uh
from there you want to transfer if
you're going to transfer to an uh
institution uh more affordable just
standard maybe directional school like
Western Texas you know something like
that I went to Western Michigan um
university where it's a little more
affordable and you complete your final
two years there and you take federal
student loans for that uh and the big
question from that well okay uh to
finish your question so the four that
more directional school finish your four
years but
>> beyond that then you're talking like
you're going out of state at a four-year
institution skipping community college
out of state's like double the cost
>> then you can go beyond that then we're
talking private institution you actually
go beyond that and think uh uh
international which is why people really
care about rankings in the United States
cuz that gets international students
since they care about rankings and
they'll pay an extra premium to go to
schools in the United States. So, that's
why they really care. Um, but I try to
stay down here. Try to stay in that
community college for the first two
years and then transfer to the instate
institution. Federal student loans,
subsidized or unsubsidized, at least you
have the protections with federal
student loans. Really try not to go
private. The only reason you'd be going
private is because your family already
makes a decent amount of money. Um, so
that that's how I would approach it. And
that is degree selection. That's the
important one. You have to look at the
field you're going into. A lot of the um
unfortunately there is a big gender
division and this isn't anti-women. I
don't want to be on that [ __ ] weird
anti-women [ __ ] but there is an actual
reality that women are getting lower
return on investment degrees in the
United States tend to get more things
like social services, psychology,
sociology, things like that that don't
return where men tend to really think
about the income post I don't know if
it's ingrained society or culture or
they to be the provider or whatever, but
for whatever reason they tend to go, you
know, more engineer uh things like that
and women, you know, more teachers. So,
uh, that's really important to think
about the degree and the return on
investment. And now, honestly, a thing
to probably consider is how AI resistant
your career field is going to be. Who
knows where that's going to go?
>> I think unfortunately women are going to
be hit hardest by that. So, there is
it's referred to as the lanyard class.
>> Okay.
>> People that wear lanyards to work. It's
middle management, it's marketing, it's
HR, and that is a big chunk that sort of
white collar lanyard people. that is
going to be a big chunk of what AI comes
for first supposedly. Uh and that is
gonna I I tweeted this and I got people
got very mad at me about it that
>> you're looking at your responses to
tweets.
>> Who cares if people are getting mad?
>> I go on that once every two days and I
see what fewer has occurred within the
last 48 hours. Look,
>> they don't matter.
>> I post and ghost, but it's just
interesting to see what the sentiment
is. How close to a third rail or beyond
the Overton window is this thing that I
>> the internet is not real life. So, it's
just so hard to take in account what is
said.
>> Very true.
>> Like this last election in midterms, I
swear it all went opposite of what you
saw on Twitter. Like, you're going to
think all these like out uh outsiders
were going to win cuz they're so big on
Twitter. It was nothing. It was nothing.
Don't look at your response.
>> The sexy campaign on social media is not
middle America who are voting and
actually have the time and the uh
preparedness to be able to go out and
have registered and are [ __ ] ready to
go. Yeah. Um anyway, I said uh uh we've
just got ourselves now we we've overshot
it a little bit. I think women out earn
men up to the age of now about 32 33.
>> It's about £1,111
more to 29. I don't know what it is
after that. And only then does it but
that has grown. It was up to 29. Now
it's up to 32 33 I think for women out
earning men. Uh given that you've just
about reached young people gender parity
between men and women in terms of
earning, you are now about to see that
what probably to women feels like we
finally arrived economically.
>> Mhm. [sighs]
>> Okay.
>> Majority of degrees.
>> Yep. Two women for every one man
completing a four year US college degree
by 2030, etc., etc.
>> Mast's degrees, even more.
>> Correct. uh PhDs also
>> more but not more more uh
that situation of par is maybe going to
be at risk and I think a lot of fingers
are going to be pointed that um we just
arrived and now robots built by men
>> have just taken our opportunity that is
still so [ __ ] green that we haven't
settled into it away from us that I
think is going to be one of the biggest
stories of the next decade I mean,
there's going to be many, but one of the
ones that people are going to feel the
most is more war between the sexes.
>> Oh, yes. The gender wars are so extreme.
The political division right now in the
most recent uh federal election, the
gender divide in the generation Z is
further than any other generation in
American history. It's it's it's it's
scary. I'm actually scared. And it it's
impacting more things than just that.
Uh, it's impacting reproduction numbers
which impacts the overall economy. It
impacts retirees, the retirey to worker
ratio if people aren't [ __ ] And
people aren't [ __ ] people hate each
other. Now they have um you're swiping
based on political affiliation on the
dating apps, you know. Uh, so it it is
very scary and it's sad to see. And
unfortunately, again, it is usually like
the white women that are calling me
fascist online uh for personal
responsibility financ.
>> Yeah. But it's like it's a it's really
weird because I really just want the
best and we're talking about statistics
or anything isn't sexist. It's not
right now. You know, I didn't even say
it earlier because it shouldn't be about
the sexes. But when we talked about
people struggling post college degrees
and not get a job, it's actually not
women. They're they're getting uh jobs
at the same rate as new degree holders
as traditional. It's men that have
fallen off the cliff. But I didn't want
to focus on that because this shouldn't
be a big gender war. But the gender wars
among Gen Z right now is insane and
we're going to have massive consequences
down the road just as we've seen in
South Korea, in Japan. And I'm terrified
for that as a hopeful future retiree.
Yeah. Uh this was from my newsletter
this week. Asian women now earn more on
average than white men in the US. A
finding that adds a wrinkle to common
narratives about patriarchy and white
supremacy. Asian women are winning.
>> Yeah. Yeah, sure. Of course. And like I
understand there's the history, right?
So you got to put
many people feel burdened by history. I
get it. Victimhood's easier to have than
you know saying like, "All right, we're
doing okay now." Um I think I think it's
it's very there's two there's two sides
on that more uh I guess if you have to
put it in a camp right-wing perspective
is like you know, oh everything's good
now, so you know, we don't even need to
think about what came before, right?
It's like okay, but there is an actual
history. And then on the leftwing side,
that's just as bad is like they don't
even recognize that there has been
progress. It's all victimhood. It's all
bad. Women are oppressed. All this
stuff. It makes no sense. You have to
acknowledge the realities of history.
And you have to also recognize when
we're trying to change society that we
actually have changed society and people
are doing better than before.
>> The thing that's kind of an unseen cost
of always looking
with a historical context that forgets
the present.
>> Mhm. is that it actually denies people
who are in a good situation from ever
feeling like they're in a good
situation.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> You go, hey, hey, you [ __ ] arrived. I
get it.
>> Burdens from the past. Uh things that
need to be remembered so we don't fall
back there. The main fear is if we for
if we don't keep talking about it, maybe
we'll go back there, right? That keep a
weather eye on that. Make sure that
that's happening. But if you make
progress in the present always neuted by
what it where it came from in the past,
you never actually give people the gift
of feeling the opportunity for
celebration.
>> Couldn't agree more, but you're evil for
saying that. So
>> I'm aware. It's fine. I've been called
it a lot. Uh people aren't [ __ ]
>> Caleb Hammer. Like that's the I did I
did a 4-hour debate about the birth rate
decline. Uh I could have just
>> Who?
>> Uh it was uh Steven J. Shaw, who did the
birth gap documentary, uh Simone
Collins, who
>> did they say people are [ __ ] cuz
they're not.
>> No, no, no. It was a demographer, a
pronatalist, and a statistician. Uh it
was broadly
broadly in agreement, although the
reasons were what was being debated. It
was kind of I've been deep down this
rabbit hole for a while. Um
>> which if anyone knew the actual reasons,
we would be able to fix it, right? And
every country has tried to
things and it's it worked in Hungary for
a year and then it fell back. Correct.
There's there is a number. So Lyman
Stone would be an interesting one for
you to talk to from a like economic
implication. He's like Institute for
Family Studies, which you may have
referenced at some point. He's the man
when it comes. He's like tip of the
[ __ ] spear.
>> Um there is a number that you can pay
people to fix the birth rate and it's
not that much, but it's [ __ ] loads
compared with what we spend. It's like
10% of GDP.
>> It's a lot. I mean, it might be required
at some point, right? Because that's
like collapse a human civilization at
some point. I don't think, you know,
luckily in the United States, we're like
generally pro immigration. People want
to move here, so we'll be fine. But
places like uh South Korea are done.
>> Yeah. For every hundred South Koreans,
there'll be four great grandchildren.
>> Yeah.
>> 96% gone within a century.
>> What's the same?
>> So, have you looked at um the economic
implications, sort of macroeconomic
implications of a a declining
population?
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm more focused on the
retirement when we were um uh these
numbers. I'm going to have to be a
little fuzzy on because it's hard to
remember exactly, but when we first
started a so a social program called
Social Security that has good intent,
not an evil program, mismanaged, not
smart in the end. You know, we had like
a worker to retirey ratio of like 100
to1. Uh what are we at now? We're like a
it's close to like 10 to one or
something. You could have these numbers.
Um but the the closer and closer we get,
the more burden it is on the individual.
And if you have social systems that are
solely reliant on a growing population,
growing tax base, it doesn't work. They
fail. So all the social programs are
starting to fail. You're seeing them
starting to buckle. Social Security is
going to have a mandatory 25% cut in
2032 is what's projected.
>> Why?
>> So when there were more workers, we were
contributing more money than was going
out. So that money was starting to build
>> because old people don't work, but they
do need caring for.
>> Yeah. Which makes sense. and the that
social security uh fund was starting to
build. But where was it like around
early 2000s or something, we started to
take more out of it than was going in as
the baby boomers started to retire and
also there's just less people replacing
them. And by 2032, unless the retirement
age changes, unless the cap on social
security tax changes, unless we
>> reduced the cap on social security would
be brought down
>> or or we also cut benefits to those who
are already high incoming. you know, all
controversial for different reasons,
whatever, that's not the point. But
unless something changes, the fund goes
to zero and then the only money that
goes out is the money coming in. And
that's projected to be a 25ish% cut by
2032.
>> [ __ ] me, that's going to be unpopular.
>> Oh, it's it's whoever's president is
going to get killed. I mean, it's going
to be bad. We'll probably just honestly,
they'll probably write a law. We'll
borrow the difference and our debt will
just go even further. Probably what's
going to happen. The last time we made a
compromise was during the Reagan
administration, if I'm not mistaken,
where they barely w raised the
retirement. You have to remember the
average lifespan for 65.
>> Yeah, right around there. And we raised
like two years. The average
>> lifespan for when we started social
security was like if you actually make
social security, you're going to live
for another two or three years. Now
you're going to live a couple decades.
So it just doesn't it doesn't make sense
anymore. it though. Even though it's
super unpopular among the highest voting
base, the boomers, social security
retirement age for what it was actually
intended to when FDR signed it into law
should have been raised almost like 70
by now,
>> which sounds evil.
>> Yeah. Does anybody like the idea of
working and working and working? This is
>> I've still not been able to thread this
needle properly. I've done 4hour [ __ ]
discussion with the best on the planet
as far as I could find to talk about
this stuff. endless episodes with Steve
and I've had Lyman on before. I've had
Simone's husband on. People that are
skeptical, critical, all this stuff. I'm
like, dude, like if you care about the
quality of life of people, more people
are going to be old in the future than
ever before. We're going to have more
old people than ever before. And where
do you think the money to support them
comes from? Like, do you want grandma?
And nobody I've said this a gazillion
times.
>> Nobody should have kids that doesn't
want to have kids.
>> Nobody should have kids that doesn't
want to have kids. There is a more
extreme position than that which is it's
your duty to have kids to feed the
economic engine. I don't subscribe to
that view. But like
>> just the fact that birth rate decline is
not a problem is kind we shouldn't we
shouldn't consider it especially from a
left-leaning perspective. We shouldn't
consider it because it's good for the
environment. Like
[sighs and gasps]
I I've really I've really struggled to
thread this needle like properly.
>> It's a hard one. The thing that
disappoints me is, you know, before I
was even born, right around when I was
born in the 90s, they considered taking
that social security fund and having it
having that money get put into something
like the S&P 500,
>> which at this point it would be insanely
large [laughter] and we would have
enough money to do whatever we want. We
would have like a Norway level uh
sovereign wealth fund. It'd be
incredible because Norway is actually
capitalistic and smart with their money
apparently via the government. But we
said, "No, let's tie it to the low t
bills like Mr. Ori was talking about
which is another reason why I'm against
like low tea bills cuz guess what didn't
grow now it's being drained.
>> I saw some stats around uh Samachman
Freed's investments with FTX uh
Anthropic was one of them. I think
SpaceX was another one. And because
during administration bankruptcy
whatever the [ __ ] it's called what's it
called? Liquidation. Like when we sell
it all, sell everything, get the value
of it right now, and just give people
the pennies on the dollar to what it is
that they're owed by this bank that goes
under that was run by a guy that played
League of Legends while he was on Skype
calls.
>> If they'd held to now,
everybody would have got their money
back.
>> Mhm.
>> I mean, you could have paid people
probably double, triple, quadrup. Their
investment in Anthropic is worth like a
[ __ ] insane amount of money. The same
thing goes with SpaceX IPO that just
occurred. That's a question. What do you
make of having the world's first
trillionaire in existence right now?
>> Yeah, it's interesting. A lot of people
are very angry about it. Um,
you know, uh, a lot of I I'm happy that
you can get rewarded in this country for
the things you do. We're getting
internet beamed from space. I love my
Tesla. The self-driving is insane.
people haven't been in a recently
updated self-driving Tesla. Like you can
read, eat, drink coffee, scroll on
TikTok, and the car will get you
somewhere perfectly fine with without
looking at the road. It's one of the
crazy that's technology no one would
have even dreamed of 20 years ago. The
things that we're doing, the private
space, like I think you should be
rewarded for it. Trillions a lot. It's
crazy. But even if the argument is
you're against someone being a
trillionaire, what's then the action?
The action is you're forcing him to sell
a position of his own company. You're
saying we're taking a gun and we're
saying you must sell a position of your
company to pay tax on it. I'm against
that as a philosophy. That doesn't make
sense. Should a trillionaire exist? I
don't know. But if you decide the answer
is no, the actual action that comes from
it is the world's worse than whether or
not a trillionaire should exist. Forcing
people to sell their companies crazy.
>> It's a really interesting argument. I
understand inequality is one of the
craziest disorders of human behavior. So
one example from Candace Blake who's out
in Australia uh she looked at levels of
uh self- sexualization and
beautifification of women and correlated
posts on Instagram and Twitter at the
time with the geoloccation it came from
and looked at the wealth inequality in
that area. women that were in higher
wealth inequality uh ecologies posted
more sexy selfies did more self-
beautifification and more
self-exualization. The reason for that
her theory was when you see both how
high you could climb and how low you
could fall if you pick the right or
wrong mate that on average will be at
least contributing to the household or
maybe the bread winner and the primary
provider for you and your future family.
You start to turn on the taps in terms
of the way that you work. And that's one
example in one very small niche of one
very small study when globally everybody
is now aware that there is a guy on the
planet right now that could lose a
trillion dollars and still be the
richest man on the planet.
>> That you and me and everybody is closest
to the second richest man in the world
than the second richest man in the world
is to the first richest man in the
world. That is deranging. It's deranging
to the way that people see their place
in society.
>> It is. I just try to put it in
perspective. And if the thing the thing
is I've I'm I do well and I'm okay with
paying more in taxes if that's the
argument. I'm not okay with it if we're
not even able to investigate fraud. If
we're not able blah blah blah, you know,
there's a lot of things. The bureaucracy
is insane. [ __ ] So, I would rather
not pay more in taxes until we actually
get our [ __ ] figured out. But even
still, I would be okay with paying taxes
if we say it's going to fund something
that's going to help people. But the
conversation's gone away from that to
saying that man has a lot of money.
That's evil. Let's take it. That's no
longer the conversation. I want to fund
something that's actually good if we're
going to raise taxes. So, it's I they
they've lost me at that conversation.
And also, they think like where does him
being a trillionaire affect you? For me,
I think what actually affects someone's
personal life is they have to call a
cashier to unlock a toothbrush at a
corner shop. That's actually impacting
you on a daily life. zoning laws is
impacting you because it's preventing
houses and higheres being built, which
impacts your housing costs, student
loans being tied basically to hiring
more administrators. That impacts you.
There's so many more things impacting
you than someone whose companies that he
owns, you know, large stakes and went
public and they're being valued high,
which made his net worth go exponential.
There's so many more things to address
first than freaking out about that. But
something in the human nature,
especially of the more extremists, I
will say, and more populous, is like
that person has a lot of money. I don't
let's take it. But even if they took all
of his money, I think everyone gets like
what is it like a,000 or 2,000 bucks.
It's something it's something that it
would actually be really nice and for a
lot of people could be life-changing,
but that's one time. It would drive
inflation extreme and uh it would
actually just be damaging in the end cuz
then we don't have life-changing
technology.
>> Why would it drive inflation extreme?
Speak to me as if I'm five. Well, you
know,
>> talking to you like you're a [ __ ] LLM
here. [laughter]
>> Can you imagine if you had a Caleb LLM
just shouting and screaming at you all
the whole time?
>> A rapid supply of 350 million Americans
spending a couple thousand bucks just
out of the gate. Like a trillion dollars
just pumped into the economy like that.
I mean, that'd be brutal. Just look what
we did during the pandemic, pumping
hundreds of billions. So, it'd be pretty
brutal.
>> Whilst also sounding like the sort of
thing that we would want,
>> but not. Yeah, you need people to spend
money.
>> One in the micro, but not in the macro.
>> Yeah. Not so much that it drives insane
hiring sprees that pushes everyone's
incomes to insane levels. That pushes
inflation higher.
>> What are the biggest financial red flags
in dating?
>> Uh, high car debt would be absolutely
horrible. If I pull up to that TikTok
girl we saw earlier in $50,000 car,
financing a $50,000 debt on a car. Like,
we'll hook up, but we're not staying for
a second. [laughter]
So,
Okay.
>> It's a big red flag.
>> High cod debt. What else?
>> Um I think it's nice for people to offer
like splitting the bill on a first date.
You know, I like being I guess the man
in like paying for it, but I think it's
actually it's a green flag when people,
you know, if they expect you to pay for
it, I think is a bit of a red flag. You
know, if they're thinking like they're
that special thing
>> in entitlements,
>> I don't know. It just kind of turns me
off specifically if when people have
that main character syndrome and it gets
tied into the financial situation of
like expecting things, you know, that's
kind of gross to me. A [ __ ] degree.
I mean, less less [ __ ] Just toss
that out to the side.
>> Yeah.
>> What did you do your degree in? Yeah.
No, sorry. This is not going to work.
No, you meet me on an imaginary
imaginary.
>> Would you date me? I dropped out.
>> Uh, how much debt you got?
>> Uh, 25,000.
>> That's all right. I dig you.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Nice tits. Thank you. [laughter]
[snorts]
>> Um
>> car payment [ __ ] degree.
>> Yeah. Um and that entitlement of like
expectation around spending. Okay.
>> On them.
>> Anything else? What what uh
>> low ambition? And I know that's kind of
tied to finances in general, but if
someone's that ambitious, I don't need
someone to be ambitious to want to go
make a million bucks a year, but if
someone isn't driven in their career or
even just hobbies, if they're not
driven, what a turnoff. I think going uh
low ambition, high materialism is the
perfect cocktail. It's like, hey, you're
allowed to be materialistic as long as
you've got the conscientiousness to know
where the limit is and to be able to
keep the front of the funnel pouring in.
>> Yes. You've described a gold digger and
[laughter]
we've had lots of them on the show.
They're the Oh, I love a couple with a
gold digger. I can just I can just
verbally punch all day.
>> Why?
>> So much fun. It's just so much fun cuz I
see the person the typically
unfortunately a man, but I've actually
had the reverse a few times, but usually
the man's actually working, making a lot
of money, and she's over there feeling
entitled, and I see all the spending in
their own statements. I see proof in
front of me of her just spending all
this money and feeling like they should
do all this while this guy over here is
struggling working two jobs. It is just
it is a brutal thing. And the nice
thing, the thing that I love about it is
seeing that light bulb go off in his
head when he notices this person's just
using me.
>> How many couples have broken up because
of what you revealed financially?
>> Uh very rare on the show. We've we've
had a couple had one divorce. It wasn't
from the show and it was a couple years
ago. Just a bad marriage, but it's
actually pretty rare for people to break
up. M you should couples merge finances.
>> Uh at some point it's nice to have a
joint account that incomes go in and
then bills come out of and then we can
send uh fund money to our own accounts
from there. I think after marriage makes
a little more sense at least common law
marriage cuz then you have some uh some
of those protections in the case of
death or whatnot. But um yeah, I mean
it's fine and it's fine if people want
to keep it separate as long as they can
actually budget the household. People
just usually fail at that without
getting insight on the full thing.
>> What's your perspective on prenups?
Yeah, it's fine if there's like a big
wealth divide.
>> Yeah, big wealth divide it makes sense.
I think if you're both making 100, it's
a bit weird.
>> Do you often see financial infidelity
like hiding purchases or debt?
>> So common and most people don't think
it's actually much of anything, but the
other person feels really hurt in the
end. They just don't realize it because
spending is just one of those things
where it's not it's not viewed as
extreme as cheating. It's not as extreme
as cheating, but it does impact the
other person that they're hiding it from
more than they think. The moment it's
exposed on the show, you can see the
pain in their face.
>> It's still trust, right?
>> Yeah. It's trust. It's exactly trust.
Not talking to the person. It's a lot of
things. And it it hurts them personally.
>> If you're not being honest with me about
this, how can I be
>> certain that you're being honest with me
about anything else?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Absolutely.
>> It's a vicious cycle with that stuff.
What uh is there a like sex difference
in what men and women go broke doing?
Honestly, no. Not really. I mean, I'll
get a little
>> They're able to be equally [ __ ] in
similar directions.
>> [ __ ] I mean, they everyone loves
collectibles. They just get like
different. I got L booooas on the women
and I got Pokemon cards on the men.
>> Everyone loves collectibles.
>> Well, no. No. No. But like, you know,
it's like split down the genders. Like,
like both genders love it. Does everyone
>> obsessed with Warhammer 40k and other's
obsessed with Beanie Babies.
>> Exactly. So, I mean, you'll get some
more frivolous spending. Maybe a guy
will put some more into his car, a girl
will get more extensions, but it's
similar levels of [ __ ] What's
actually interesting is, you know, talk
about young men gambling issues, but the
it's actually pretty similar in terms of
percentage. Young men and young women,
it's just not talked about. Men is
higher, but it's pretty close.
>> It's pretty close.
>> What do you think of prediction markets?
What's your
>> It's fun. Just like drinking, just like
smoking weed, um, anything like that. I
think it's cool if you can control it.
If you know you have an addiction or an
addictive personality, you need to keep
yourself away from [ __ ] like that.
>> Yeah. Mental health issues impacting
spending.
>> Is that true? Like shopping addictions
and stuff.
>> Yeah. Or if you're depressed, it feels
good to get that dopamine spike of a
quick purchase. Absolutely. Um yeah,
mental health affects everything in the
end. It's kind of that that discipline
thing, right? Everything stems from the
discipline when it comes to personal
finances. If your mental health's bad,
usually your discipline's going to be
bad. I can't remember where it was I
read this. I think it might have been
the UBI test study. There was two that
were done 2024. And uh one of the points
there was if you're poor,
you can only really get small
doses of pleasure from small things, but
that means that you're more likely to
spend frivolously because you need to
relieve the stress. that point that we
made before like if you have not that
much pleasure in your life and you're
burdened with worry and you don't know
what the future has in store for you,
yeah, you're going to go and buy
cigarettes because the cigarettes
alleviate your suffering.
>> Mhm.
>> It's there's certain things I remember
there's this example from Sam Harris
[ __ ] years ago. It was during the
some of the more crazy race
conversations around mid2020
and I was struggling to see uh
philosophically consistent arguments
about um white privilege and he came up
with one that I thought was so [ __ ]
cool. And he said, "If I've ever gone
through TSA and I've had my bag pulled,
I've never once thought that it's
because of my race." Interesting.
>> Isn't that an interesting kind of white
privilege? I've never once thought that.
Like, oh, I I [ __ ] up. Like, I left
water in the water bottle or it's a
random check by TSA cuz they've got to
do like this is what they do.
>> Yeah.
>> That is not true if you're of a
different race.
>> Yeah.
>> That's just straight up not true. And
the same thing,
the same thing to a degree is also true
when it comes to being poor. that there
are these sort of secret
psychological loops that people go
through about what their financial
position means to their identity, how
they then cope with that identity, with
their behavior, which feeds back into
the financial position. Yeah,
>> that seems to be the
>> one of the very unseen death spirals,
and it's too it's too complex to put on
a billboard. It doesn't sound sexy. Like
what what [ __ ] intervention are you
going to have as a politician or as a a
potential president going and we are
going to teach people how to intervene
in their conscientiousness when they
begin the downward death spiral of
sedating themselves from feeling bad
about their financial position doing
things that makes a financial position
wise.
No is way too complex despite the fact
that it might be one of the key driving
forces. Okay, how can we how can we give
people I mean we do we give people
[ __ ] social media which is some of
the freest dopamine that you can get on
the planet but I think all that that
really does is raise the waterline of
minimum dopamine that you now need an
even bigger dose to be able to break out
the top of it. I wonder whether we would
be in better financial positions without
social media.
>> Oh probably. I mean, we see things. We
see the lifestyles that people pretend
they have all the time. And [laughter]
we like to chase lifestyles. We're
jealous. We're jealous people, jealous
species. It makes sense.
>> I think that's one of the drivers of
lifestyle inflation.
>> And unfortunately,
poor people will go broke trying to look
rich.
>> Oh, yeah. The car especially.
Absolutely.
>> Is that What's the dumbest purchase
category that people constantly
overspend on?
>> Constantly in America. It's certainly
the car. Well, and it's baked into our
infrastructure. You have to drive. You
have to drive to have a job to have to
drive. Like that is the reality. But
people will overjustify how much car
they need. Needing the new car because
of the new safety rating. Like cars
would literally kill you 5 years ago or
something. Like I don't really get that.
Um fuel efficiency. Like you can make
some arguments and stuff especially in
times like now where gas is up. But
people will justify the heck again like
her out of getting a $50,000 car loan
for a car that you do not need.
>> What is the rough rule of how to work
out what price of car you are able to
afford?
>> It comes down to the monthly payment. If
you get a debt, as long as you put 20%
down, it is a three-year term. The
minimum monthly payment should be no
more than 8% of your income. If it is,
then you're getting a car that's likely
too much out of your affordability
range.
>> Seems like a pretty simple formula.
>> Yeah, it's easy. It gets most people
that a pretty good car.
>> What does that get an average earner
making 50 grand a year?
>> I don't know. Should we do the math? I
can do the math.
>> Do the math.
>> Uh, okay. Um, well, [ __ ] Then I have to
like understand what 20% down would be.
So, it' have to be post 20%. Okay. Okay.
Okay. $50,000 because it is gross
income.
talking eight. So that's 40,000. You can
do 40,000 divide that by 12. So I mean
that's pretty chunky. Um,
no, no, no. Sorry, that's not 8. I did
80%. Okay, so $4,000 by 12. That's $333,
but you have to come. So you as long as
you put 20% down. So three year your car
payment $333.
>> You can probably get a good bit of car
for that money.
>> Decent. Decent. I mean, interest rates
depends on your credit score. You might
have to go a little higher. Then you
just need to pay it down quicker. And
I'm okay with that. You just got to put
extra towards it. You just don't have to
freak out about it if you're doing that.
If you're following that rule,
>> I guess a lot of people need credit to
build a financial future whilst also
struggling to build credit to qualify
for it because they lack credit history.
>> Yeah. But there's credit builders now.
There's charge cards now where, you
know, you put the money on there to
spend, but it's building credit. Uh, so
there's a lot more resources today than
before if people are just willing to
look.
>> Can someone become obsessed with
financial optimization to the point
where they make their life worse?
>> I mean, our friend, our friend Graham
Stefen, I think a little right. I mean,
I don't know is uh I don't think he
needs to I love the dude. I love the
dude, but everything you see on camera
is actually what you get in reality. And
he will micro freak out about just a
little penny he's going to spend on
lunch or something. And he'd make more
money if he used that mental effort on
producing a piece of content. Isn't that
a hidden cost? A strange kind of hidden
cost of obsessing over finances too
much.
>> But you know what? He has fun with it.
So, it's actually probably not making
his life worse.
>> Well, yeah, because his enjoyment from
scrutinizing and saving is greater than
the enjoyment he would get from the
spending. Yes.
>> It's this weird I mean, he was built to
be a saving engine.
>> Yes.
>> He's like the [ __ ] LeBron James of
saving money. But I think for some
people if you get to that way and it's
not actually your passion and it's more
coming from like let's say I don't want
to overuse the word trauma but trauma of
like growing up poor. So now you're just
freaking out about it constantly. I
think that could you know hurt your
lifestyle.
>> Interesting archetypes of people that
grew up without money. I I grew up
without money. And uh some people grow
up to
I've never had this before. [ __ ] it. We
ball.
>> Or I've never had this before. It might
be taken away. I'm not going to spend
it.
>> That's us. Yeah. You read Die with Zero
by Bill Perkins. Oh, dude.
>> I know, but I haven't read it.
>> Really fun. It's three-hour read or
listen or whatever. And um he's just got
some interesting ideas that
>> I would be you I know you're doing
financial audit. Are you sitting down
with other people that are Morgan Hels
of the world, the Bill Perkins of the
world? Have you got any desire to do
that to because I would love for you to
scrutinize financial philosophies from
people that have got popular financial
books. It'd be it'd be fun, but I also
have to acknowledge even though there's
some topics that I'm interested in
learning from experts from, I'm no
different from just a dude off the
street. I'm not a [ __ ] expert. Like,
I'll listen to people, but it's hard for
me to like push back against a true
expert in their position. That's why I
like keeping to what I do. It's basic.
Personal finances is so basic until you
get to the crazy [ __ ] It's so basic
until you get to the top 0.1%. Is this
budgeting, control, discipline, low
index funds, lowc cost index funds,
target date retirement funds, emergency
fund? That that's the [ __ ] I'm into.
Bread and butter.
>> You've exited all of your rental
properties.
>> Exiting. Yeah, exiting. Um, better
return on investment in the stock market
all day, every day. No hassle either. I
mean, I'm not the one fielding the calls
when something breaks, but you know,
it's just every month is up and down
depending on what needs to be repaired.
And just even if nothing needed to be
repaired,
the only thing you take advantage of is
some leverage there, which can be nice,
especially if the market booms. But in
general, real estate has lost now to the
S&P 500 just consistently. I would love
to own a piece of commercial like you
do. That's great. You know, you get some
some uh quick depreciations on there,
which is really nice. Uh so that's
something I'd be willing to get into at
some point.
>> I'm unwinding all of the houses I have
in the UK except for the one that I I
still live in. That's like that's still
my my place of
>> well that's a collapsing country. So
>> that's true. That is that is true. But I
mean
I there was a period and this was sort
of what I grew up with. I was very
fortunate that when I started doing
business the guy that was my partner was
5 years older than me. am in the exact
same industry. I'm very very financially
responsible and I only child so didn't
have anybody that was entrepreneurial
understanding the UK system and working
in the same industry with the kind of
cash flow and and the sort of pacing
that we would get. So I just followed
the same path that he was on and his was
every time that you get to about £30,000
of spare cash deposit on a berlet
student property between two and five
bedrooms in a good student area hand it
off to a management company. They'll
take between 10 and 20%.
>> And away you just
>> 20% is fine.
>> Rinse and repeat. I managed to negotiate
to 12. But uh rinse and repeat. Okay,
that's that's pretty good. And let's say
I never talk about money. This is my
British, but I've got you here. So,
let's say uh the best purchase that I
made was
£150,000
a five bed student property in Heaton in
Newcastle and I would have put
25% down. So, I I think I I think all in
with stamp duty and fees and all the
rest of the stuff. I think I put
somewhere in the region of like 50 grand
down and that would make after
everything £1,800
a month and then there would be maybe
some repairs that were needed on top. So
let's save 1,500. So that's like 18
grand.
>> Mhm.
>> 18 grand a year. Great cash vehicle.
>> Yeah.
>> But what you were really doing it for
was to tie because it's an interestonly
mortgage. So, you were just hiding over
hoping that everything would be kept and
maybe it would spew out a little bit of
cash and that would be lovely,
>> but you were waiting for the capital
gains. That was what you wanted. I'm
going to hold this for 10 years and it's
going to go from 150 to 200 to 250 and
then it's going to be and I'm unwinding
all of these properties and like the
future that I promised myself has not
come to fruition. It's they've all
appreciated. Hooray. But Karma's changed
the capital gains tax. I'm getting fist
[ __ ] off that. and the gains that I
thought I was going to make didn't
occur. And I'm in the exact same
position as you. I also now, this is my
fault, I have to pull the [ __ ] money
across from pounds to USD.
>> So, I'm going to get fist [ __ ] on the
exchange and I'm going to have to do
something creative in order to be able
to I it's company to company, so it's
relatively like linear to do limited
company in the US, the UK to an LLC over
here. But like I was thinking this is
going to be, you know, retirement fund
stuff and maybe if I'd held it for the
rest of time and I never left the UK,
that would have been it. But it when I
started and I was behind Dave, business
partner that was sort of laying this
groundwork for, hey, this is how you get
to a financial level of of real
comfortability.
That that route is is not the same
anymore at all. And and everybody
[ __ ] hates landlords. So, like
something that used to be, hey, you're
holding on to this property. You're
making sure that it's kept to a a high
standard. You're u making sure that
we're well looked after, you're a good
landlord, even if there's a management
company in between you and us. Uh
there's no prestige really associated
with it now in the same way.
>> No, which is kind of interesting. I
mean, I got [ __ ] from the landlord
thing, too. I mean, I don't really care
because it's usually coming from people
that have no impact on anything in
society. But
uh a couple of the places I bought were
basically unlivable and I brought them
up to be a place for people to live in.
And people like literally they were on
the market. People were not buying them
to bring it up to live in cuz it was in
the student area of Western Michigan
University. No one was going to live in
the student section. No one was buying a
house to live there.
>> Uh so it was places that just weren't
being lived in that I made livable and
actually benefited. There was a period
in the UK and I came in after this which
is it does make sense. One of the big
criticisms you took a uh two bed or
three bed classic family home and you
rejig all of the walls and the
construction to turn it into five or six
or seven bed student properties.
>> Mhm.
>> There's no [ __ ] family in Newcastle
that needs a seven bed house in Heaton.
>> Uh that is basically locked in for the
rest of time that this is going to be a
student property. And now if you ever
stop you, it's what's called an HMO.
It's a house of multiple occupancy. If
you ever take it out of that, you can
never get the license back. So they're
now trying to reverse that back to try
and encourage families to buy these
houses. But the problem is I'm never
going to sell one of my houses. Well,
that's not I would sell it to whoever
wants to pay the price, but no family is
going to pay the price that I can get
from somebody that wants it as an
investment property because they are
going to have to knock all of these
[ __ ] walls down and turn it back into
what it was before it was turned into a
student house, which I didn't do.
Governments will do any rule,
regulation, tax, whatever to think
they're trying to encourage something
other than literally just make zoning
laws better for people to just build
what people are demanding. I will never
understand it. That's why that's why I
love this town. I love Austin cuz we let
people build more houses on units now on
lots. We let people build higher houses.
We got rid of parking minimums where the
government force you to have a certain
amount of parking spots. It's so stupid.
They'll do every policy besides just
letting developers build what the market
demands. Dude, there is a a lot near
Zilka that I drive past sometimes. And
it used to have one old style ranch
house that probably had two beds. It was
up on sticks. Walk up a little set of
wooden stairs to get to it. Classic
wooden ranchy house. And it had a
trailer thing that was for some for
pancakes or it must have been a business
that the person had started at some
point. And there was a bit of a yard
outside or whatever. And then one day,
no house, no trailer, just flattened.
Like there'd been a miniature atomic
bomb that went off.
>> There are now three
ground floor, first floor, second store
story
>> houses built on this one [ __ ] plot of
land.
>> Yeah.
>> And they look nice. They've I mean, it's
still all green and insulation and wood
and [ __ ] at the moment, but
>> And that's nice. That's due to literally
Texas and the city of Austin just a
couple years ago, like passing those
kind of reforms. I heard that the
housing problem in America would be
fixed if the zoning laws were changed.
That there's enough demand and enough
capital to be able to make the houses.
The only issue is that the nimi problem.
Yeah. It's the nimbies. Yeah. Which
makes sense. I mean, if you're thinking
about your own interest in California
and LA, you want the cost of your house
to continue going up forever. That's
usually where the majority of your
wealth is. You can borrow against that.
So, of course, you don't want more
development coming in, housing prices to
fall. Well, it's economically against
you and you're usually a big voting
block. You're a big uh important part of
local elections and you can be a loud
voice at the city council meeting. So,
it makes sense that people are against
it. But, I don't know. I'm MB all the
way. Build what the market demands. I
think a couple restrictions makes sense.
I don't want like a uh you shouldn't be
drilling for oil in someone's backyard,
you know? I don't know. I I'm overall
pro data centers cuz the information
around it is a lot of misinformation,
but do I want a data center in my exact
backyard? No. I'll build them in the
middle of [ __ ] nowhere. That's what I
like. Um, so it's just like, yeah,
there's some restrictions make sense,
but let the market build what the market
demands.
>> I wonder how many people are
eat the rich. They're taking the money
that young people need in order to be
able to buy houses whilst also being I
don't want any houses built near me.
>> Oh yeah. Usually the biggest nimbies are
the ones that say in this neighborhood,
you know, the signs, what is it? In this
neighborhood, we accept
>> science is real. Women are women.
>> Women are people.
>> Black people are
>> I there's I know the exact sign that you
mean and
>> they're usually the nimbies.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. How much money
do you need to raise a kid?
>> Um well uh definitely less than people
think for sure because I mean forever
throughout human existence, you know, we
were just having kids and it was fine.
It is a little harder today. But going
through public school, um, getting them
on your insurance, all that good stuff,
if you're not thinking about having to
get parent plus loans, like you could
you can do it on just a normal middle
class salary for sure. You can have
quite a few kids, but an exact number, I
don't have that.
>> I think people believe that it's more
expensive
than it actually might be. But again, a
lot of that is
>> what do I think I need and what do I
think that my kid would need versus what
what is actually needed. This is an
interesting part of that birth rate
debate that we had where
in order to have the kid realistically
assuming that you don't have some huge
windfall of money, the total pie of
money that you have to spend is not
going to change all that much. In fact,
it might go down is one partner needs to
take time off work in order to raise
them and then child care costs and all
the rest of it. That means that your
lifestyle needs to take a hit. You need
to I'm not going to be able to go out
for dinner as much. I'm not going to be
able to upgrade the car as frequently.
>> And that feels like that feels like
getting poorer.
>> Yeah. where what you've done is you've
just reortioned the money from what
would have been car to now what now is
child
>> which I empathize with it makes sense so
if you don't want to have kids don't
have kids that's kind of what you said
earlier right you know we shouldn't
force people to have kids but we also
should shouldn't be doing misinformation
of people thinking they need to have an
endless supply of money to have kids
like
>> we're richer than ever before and people
have had kids when we were poorer than
ever before like you do need money you
need school supplies You do need to make
sure they can be on your health
insurance. Like there are a lot of
things you need money for, but we
overemphasize it for sure.
>> Forcing people to have kids is
horrendous, but scaring people out of
not having kids when they could
>> because of misinformation is also
something that never gets spoken about.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. Caleb Hammer, ladies and
gentlemen, dude, you're awesome. I
appreciate you. I think what you do is
great. Where should people go to check
out all of the [ __ ] you've got going on?
>> Caleb Hammer on YouTube. And I recommend
everyone download. Change their lives.
Unreal. Until next time, man. Appreciate
you.
>> Thank you.
>> Goodbye, my beauties.
>> Dude,
>> that was fun.
>> Thank you very much for tuning in if you
enjoyed that episode. Another one that I
know you love is just here.