we are completely misdirected. Yeah.
>> Even when you're holding on to something
as solid as a deck of cards
>> cuz you talked about how uh just
fallible memory is. And and to this day,
I've been trying to think about how you
did that and I just have no idea. I I I
have no idea where I was tricked or
where I'm not remembering or or where
that happened. I just I have no idea.
>> I've seen him do the thing with the
glass where the glass just moves over.
It's probably the simplest thing, but I
[ __ ] love it. where the straw floats
out and the straw is floating.
>> I mean, I'd never seen a magic show
before.
>> Yeah.
>> I I really hadn't even seen Car Tricks.
>> Yeah. Not a lot of people have. They've
seen videos of it, but seeing in person
is is way different cuz you're always
you're one step removed
>> on video. So, it's like watching a stage
show and you go, "Oh, there's smoke and
mirrors. There's trap doors." Right. But
then when it's in front of you, all
those variables seem to disappear and
you're just left with nothing.
>> Yeah. Closeup is crazy. you you have the
frustrating um thing happen to you where
your suspension of disbelief is
unwilling.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not willing. You're not like, "Oh,
I'll suspend it for the sake of the
trick." You're like, "No, I've exhausted
my resources. I don't know how you did
that."
>> Yeah. On the videos, you can stop it, go
back frames, try to investigate.
>> And you can see how I did that on video,
>> that particular one. There's certain
tricks that like you have to cut around
or certain tricks that you have to like
do. Like if you look at mentalism,
>> most of the stuff happens off camera.
>> And then when the cameras are rolling,
um it's it's a lot of word play. I'll
say that.
>> We never met before today, right? You
know, like these type of things. And
you're like, it creates the illusion
that you didn't set anything up.
>> And you go, we didn't set anything up,
right? But you don't know that you were
set up if you've handed me your phone
>> before, you know, cuz I was doing some
pre-show magic trick to you and I did
something. and you're like, "Well, I
blew your mind, but now I have all this
secret information on you that I'm going
to reveal throughout the next hour and
you know, and and and you know, play a
look at me and think of this thing and
like do all these even performative
bits, which is fine, but yeah, it's not
actual mind reading."
>> Well, I think you have a point about the
the shows being in person cuz like I
haven't felt that amount of awe in like
a interaction with a person since I was
a kid.
>> Like I was I was on the edge of my seat
when you were doing those tricks. It all
culminated with the the plastic part. It
boggled my mind cuz Luigi walked in.
That's the first thing I told Luigi.
>> And he was like, "Oh, yeah."
>> Yeah. Been there, done that.
>> Speaking of which, here I'll give you uh
I'll give you a little demonstration,
not on um not on actual magic, but more
on how magicians can use magic to obtain
information
and then how that is perceived to people
watching. So, for instance, um
um All right, just go ahead and just
take a card out. Yep. Anyone?
>> I got a game out.
>> Sorry.
>> Yeah, no worries.
>> Okay, I'm hiding the number from you.
>> Yeah, just have a look at it. You got
it.
>> Put it back.
>> Y
>> All right. So, at this point, there's no
way any of us know what that card is.
Well, I sorry. You guys know I have no
idea what this card is. Correct. All
right.
>> Mhm. Um,
so all right, just think of this card.
Just think of it
>> if this is going to be like a bit of a
poker face scenario. So I don't want you
to give away any information. Okay? And
but I'm going to try to read from your
facial expressions or your sort of micro
expressions
>> anything that I can to try and determine
what the card is.
>> Is it don't answer is it red or black?
So your right eye when I said black
moved slightly. So I'm going I'm gonna
assume it's black. Is it a club or a
spade now? Okay. So So now you're you're
you're trying to mask it. And so it
tells me it's a spade once again. Okay.
Now is it a picture card or a number
card?
>> Okay. It's a number card. All right. Is
it high or low? High or low? High. It's
low. So it's a low spade. Is that
correct?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. There's a free choice. So, you
could have chosen any card. Mhm. All
right. Right here. Look at this.
>> And my finger.
>> What the [ __ ] What the [ __ ]
>> Is that it? Four of spades. All right.
So, now here's here's the thing. So,
I didn't actually read your micro
expressions. This is all performative. I
already knew what card you chose. How?
Well, there's two ways that I can know
that. Either I force the card upon you
or I peak the card after. Right? There's
two ways to do that.
>> Uh so if I force the card on you, even
though it felt like that was a free
completely free choice, it wasn't.
>> Um it felt free, it wasn't. Right? So
this is a force. So now you're being
given the card that I want you to. Mhm.
So now that I have information that you
don't know I have, I can ask you to hide
that information from me and now I can
see what that looks like.
>> Oh, for for read the tell.
>> Okay. So now I have information on what
your tells are. And this for magicians
or mentalists or even CIA is really
really valuable information. And so
having inside information and being able
to ask people questions you know the
answers to and then seeing how they
dance around the answers knowing they're
trying to avoid what the truth is. You
can see if they're lying or if they're
telling the truth.
>> So even the even the card you offered
it. You know that's a fresh pack.
>> Yeah.
>> You opened it, you cut the deck once.
>> Mhm.
>> Spread it and of jokers included what 54
cards in there.
>> Mhm. Uh, you offered me up the the one
you wanted me to pick and I tried to
game out what you wanted me to pick and
choose a different one. So, I just don't
know how I was led to pick the one card
you wanted me to. It it blows my mind.
>> Well, isn't that interesting, though?
But that's that's the whole crux of the
trick because if you knew that that was
even in play that I was
>> and you suspected I was trying to force
you a card, so you went in a different
direction. But if you knew that that
card was forced, you know, that would
change the dynamic of the of how I was
sort of trying to read that information.
And so it's really interesting because
you take magic and I just apply it to
the whole IC
>> Mhm.
>> you know, space and I go, "Oh my god,
like they're literally doing magic
tricks."
>> And you see it on these interviews. You
see it, you know, when you talk to them
in person, you know they know things,
but they're playing dumb. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And so, you know, I when I do magic
tricks to these people, um, you know, I
get to see Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> I get to see
>> what their tells are.
>> Before the podcast.
>> M Yeah.
>> And then I grill them on these
questions.
>> Probably shouldn't even be saying this
on camera,
>> you know, because they might be watching
this, but that's the idea, right? Is
that you get to And then now I
understand.
>> Yeah. you know how they shift in their
seat
>> when they're trying to hide information
or you know what I mean? So it helps.
>> Well, even you you told me I was giving
off micro expressions after you said
that when I was answering I I felt like
my eye twitching and I said, "Oh crap,
am I giving it away?"
>> And and you slightly were. That's the
thing, too. That's the other
psychological subject.
>> Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Thanks.
Um yeah, there is there is like a whole
psychological layer to um trying to hide
things. So it's you know don't think of
a black cat type idea.
>> Same thing happens. Uh and and also
>> there's like certain I learned this from
a friend Spidey. He does he has this
behavioral arts channel and he like
looks at people lying but when people
scratch their nose. So when you're lying
it actually like increases the blood
flow to your face which slight and this
is where the pinocchio lie comes from
cuz your your nose slightly swells like
on a microscopic level.
>> And so that's why people would but that
doesn't mean it's a lie. It could mean
they're just trying to dance around
something else. So, has there ever been
anybody you've had on the pod that
because you're able to gauge out their
micro expressions or when they're lying,
you have just known are feeding you a
bunch of baloney? Um, no. Because you
can't tell what they're lying about.
>> Okay. You can only tell there's like
some inconsistency in what they're
saying. So, like,
>> you know, like lie detectors famously
aren't lie detectors,
>> right? It just measures your heart rate,
cortisol levels.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, it's telling you,
"Oh, this person is stressed." You don't
know what about. It could be about
trying to hide the truth, right? But it
could also be about this reminds them of
when they were a kid and they got beat
up for saying this or Yeah. Whatever
that is.
>> Yeah. Well, I know we talked about this
too, Jesse. Just kind of guess on your
pod that that you felt may have been
kind of taking you for a ride.
>> Uh,
>> we talked about that as well. Uh, we
talked about just the the the the guest
that you had the hardest time taking
their story at face value was was
Charles Hall.
>> For sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Are we are we in the pod right now?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. I didn't break that wall.
>> Yeah. Well, well, Chris and I did
Charles Hall together.
>> The when uh
>> Jesus, that sounds weird.
Well, we did an interview with Charles
Hall
>> when
>> Chris was telling Luigi and I uh when I
was out here last time and that's when
Chris was doing impressions of some
other prominent figures in the subject
too that Luigi and I were just loving
it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Who's this? Who's I who's
impersonating
>> Bledo about the
>> Luigi was cackling the whole time.
>> It's just like the way he's so soft and
he's like, "Oh, thank you." like this
whole I've I've seen so many of his
videos and like you just see these
lights these you know these I don't know
what they are but then you hear his like
soft voice in the background.
>> Thank you
railing off at the end of the videos.
>> Yeah. There's the the kind of infamous
video at the Last Contact of him doing
that.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He always says cut the football
chatter. Cut the Yeah. Cut the football
chatter.
>> Yeah. What do you make of that? What do
you make of like
all that stuff.
>> Well, Jesse and I were talking about
this last night. You know, he is is dieh
hard wants to talk to Tim Taylor.
>> Yeah. That seems to be the biggest
>> Yeah. to this puzzle.
>> Cuz at least
>> that's your way whale.
>> It is. I think. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You think it'll happen?
>> I I put him on I made a vision board and
he's on him.
>> Cut to cut to Jesse's shrine with the
handles and like
>> satanic like pentagram. Oh, it sounds so
creepy.
>> Well, because it seems
>> I really want to do it. I think because
>> he's the intersection between trippy
stuff and then real nuts and bolts
space, but like really trippy stuff. Not
even just like UFO work like time travel
and you know other stuff.
>> Oh yeah, the Bermuda Tons Brown stuff.
Yeah. The fact that his name came up at
Charles Hall thing was interesting too.
Like Mary Theresa's wife was just like
Timothy. And Bledsoe said that she he
was writing a book with Towns and
Brown's daughter.
>> Have you contacted
>> Who was writing a book?
>> Tim Taylor.
>> Oh wow. And didn't Town Towns and
Brown's daughter leave a like some type
of Amazon review on his book.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. So there is a connection there.
>> Definitely a connection.
>> Yeah.
>> Have you reached out to the daughter?
>> I have. Well, she was on a phone call in
my original
>> ground documentary and so we'll
occasionally talk on the phone and she's
fascinating.
>> That's so wild. Yeah, he's he's he's
just such a I think it's more of like
he's this weird puzzle piece that you
don't know where to put in the puzzle.
>> And that's what's so intriguing about
this this man is like is not necessarily
how he's tied together with everything,
but just like what like what is his role
here? He seems like this transient sort
of goes wherever he wants entity, but at
the same time, I get the feeling might
be an experiencer from having, you know,
so much interest in the topic and
talking to Stber. Um, what's his face?
Um, Charles Hall and all these other
experiencers, Bledsoe.
>> Um, I don't know. I don't know what to
make of them.
>> It's weird because Tim Taylor doesn't
cross over into my lane of of studying
the programs at all. Like Tim Taylor's
name never comes up.
>> He's an aerospace corp.
>> Right. Right.
>> Yeah. NASA, but still in terms of like
actual program efforts, his name has
never really come up as a as a key
player ever.
>> Which is interesting cuz then he's
gallivanting around with Bledo with
Charles Hall.
>> Yeah. You would think that he would keep
a lower profile if he was really in the
uh in the deep part of the program. What
do you think?
I think he was is part of some well I
think the program is uh probably a
misnomer and I think there are probably
a lot of different you know you have
this this phenomena which is sort of
multifaceted and then you have
whatever's going on with Dan Sherman
like with the you know like humming a
tone yeah exact project preserve destiny
is definitely stepwise different than
reverse engineering a craft which is the
stuff you're tracking
>> and so
>> those two things are different and then
is there some sort of, you know, like
looking glass style time travel thing
like probably, you know, if you take
Bazar face value, they were at least
looking at little time perturbations,
you know, and then, you know, is there
some group that thinks it can time
travel? Like there's a there's a he
wrote a book called um Launch Fever.
It's his autobiography and he writes
about flying back and forth uh from
between um Florida and the Bahamas and
he says time moved differently there and
it's all to me it's like all this like
weird coded language like it's island
time
>> and it it's really strange.
>> Oh that's that's an interesting way to
see it. And then simultaneously he's
telling Chris Bledso's son that like
he's part of this time travel group with
and Towns of Brown was the president of
it. And Towns Brown always conceived of
himself as a time traveler. Like I
literally asked
>> Towns and Brown's daughter like what is
uh if your father is a time traveler,
what is he up to now? And she goes she
he's probably rearranging the math on
the most frontier science to make sure
we don't blow ourselves up. And then you
think about the UFO nukes thing. It's so
crazy. He's some sort of time traveling
superhero that's saving us all from
imminent doom.
>> Love this idea.
>> Also, um, did you ever ask Malmrren
about Tim?
>> So, Malmrren at the end of his life was
going really deep on Towns and Brown,
>> right? and was like had all these like
notes on him and he he apparently said
he said he had a a foreign intelligence
source that gave him uh documentation of
Towns and Brown collaborating with Tesla
on some gravity stuff which is crazy and
like I couldn't get too much deeper than
that so you know I don't know. Uh and
then on Tim Taylor I don't think I ever
asked him. I I pro I probably knowing me
I probably did and then he probably
didn't say anything that's why I don't
remember but yeah
>> interesting. Yeah.
>> Are we all in solidarity that Mal Gren
was likely CIA?
>> Yeah.
>> I don't know enough to put him in that
category, but I'll trust both of your
judgments.
>> I think I think for sure.
>> Yeah,
>> because he was in he was talking about
Priacoff and Doinan and Pompadoo like a
global stage sort of guy. And then he
was at Yale and and at Oxford before
that.
Then he was living at um he had Paul
Melon's walking stick at his apartment
and I'm holding it. Paul Melon founded
the CIA and then he goes my best friend
Tom Farmer or whatever and then you look
up Tom Farmer he was the general counsel
of the CIA. Like oh come on
>> be a big oversight not to have him in
the council.
>> He had IDA as kind of his knock position
the Institute for Defense Analyses
>> which he literally said was a cover for
his work on the National Security
Council. So this whole Dean Johnson
takedown around him not working on the
National Security Council, he already
addressed before he died
>> with this other interview with Robin
Lair. So
>> wild. I'm still blown away that he got
that interview.
>> Yeah,
>> I am too, man. I It felt uh it felt like
really like
>> Yeah, it did. Yeah. Yeah.
>> What would you guys say are the most
important interviews you guys have done?
>> I think Mal Grin is probably the most
important interview any of us have done.
I think one of them at least at the very
top.
>> Yeah, Mal Granner for me.
>> Um
I mean I would I would push that
question off to you. Um you've only done
you've only done a handful on camera.
>> Yeah.
>> I definitely off camera stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> And you like we talked about it
beforehand specifically about Air Force
stuff. That's that's like that's my uh
Tim Taylor to get specific people on
camera that have worked in those
programs.
>> Um
>> what about you Chris?
>> Um most important
>> I don't know. It's hard to say because
that would that would mean that you
would have to acknowledge that what
they're saying is a sort of agreeable
truth, right?
>> Where I I'm
>> or not. It has a ripple effect.
>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's
true. That's true. I would say um
I think you know it's gonna set people
can make what they want of it but I
think Lou was a really important
interview for the trajectory of my
channel. M um you know him coming early
onto the channel obviously got a lot of
eyes on the channel and so you know
believe or don't believe anything Lou
says regardless of that first of all he
you know he took his time to come here
and be on the podcast always be you
thankful he did that but the offset of
that was now that this you know created
some type of eventful thing where now
people look at the podcast differently
like oh this is you know he's getting
big guests and so after that I was able
to, you know, get some really
interesting people, even whistleblowers
such as Jeremy Weekes come on and and so
I think it was important in the
trajectory of my channel and um it felt
serendipitous the way it happened too, I
would say. But Jeremy Weeks is another
one. Jeremy Weeks is one that uh
>> Yeah, it's a trippy story. So
interesting.
>> Super trippy. But actually, maybe um
Peter Curry.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Oh, nice.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I feel like that one kind of even
though it did pretty well, I still think
it went under the radar with, you know,
what we're proposing and and what was
brought forward. Like it was some
physical evidence.
>> It was physical evidence.
>> That's wild.
>> It's, you know, we're not it's not
hearsay. It's physical evidence.
>> Doesn't prove aliens, but it's anomalous
physical evidence that we that we have.
>> And anomalous physical evidence that's
biological. It's not. Usually you hear
like, "Oh, we did mass spec on, you
know, this material and that has isotope
ratios, you know, whatever." You're
talking about a hair that was pulled off
the being.
>> And what what trips me out more is how
it corroborates his story
>> and not the other way around.
>> So, it wasn't like he had this hair
tested and they were like, "Oh, it's
half Asian, half Basque, it's blonde,
it's immune to AIDS without the CCR5
gene deletion." And and then he goes,
"Oh yeah, you know, I had a blonde and
an Asian naked alien in my room." And
that's not how it happened. It was that
story first and then you get this hair
back that actually kind of corroborates
what the heck this guy's saying. Like
that for me was the big oh my god
moment.
>> It wasn't even like the anomalous nature
of the hair. It was like that it
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>> How did you get in contact with him in
the first place? And did you fly him in
from Australia?
>> I did.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah, I flew him in from Australia. I
got in contact with him through
um uh what's his name? Horus Drew.
So, Horus Drew was the geneticist who uh
who did the tests, the genetic test on
the hair.
>> Um, he's also been in and around the UFO
space quite a lot. He's worked with Bill
Chocker, who wrote the book Hair of the
Alien. Bill Chocker, who's like a
respected uh UFO researcher in
Australia. And Horus was also the person
who introduced me to Jeremy Weekes. Mhm.
Mhm.
>> Um he was the one who decoded Jeremy's
initial binary sequence after you know
um I think it was uh Lynalt how she she
didn't know what to do with it. She it
resembled binary. She didn't really know
how to read it. Took horse like a few
weeks
>> and then um Yeah. And then CJ, you know,
came out.
>> Yeah. But yeah,
>> outside of Tim Taylor, who would like
your guys' three dream guests currently
living be that you guys would do
anything to get on your pods?
>> Okay, let's do let's do one at a time.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay,
>> you first.
>> Oh, man. Um,
>> no Tim Taylor.
>> Yeah, no Tim.
>> That's already vision board. Thank you,
sir.
It's funny because it's either like, you
know,
I either want to interview, you know,
people like Spielberg or like, you know,
people who are like in the like, you
know, really
clearly like know more than they let on,
like have, you know, clearly have some
interesting sources. I think that would
be really cool. And it's either that or
like I always never know how to answer
that because it used to be like more
high signal people and now it's like you
know I my audience kind of hated on this
but I loved this interview I just did
with this guy Ralph that this DOE guy he
was
>> I disagree with him about DOE oversight
when it comes to UFOs but
>> the I like somebody who's experienced
something kind of onlogically trippy but
then they can also make sense of it in
some greater theoretical framework. So
anybody like that and I felt like
Malgrim was like that too where you had
the like
meta perspective of like being able to
make sense of it. You were like an actor
in the world. You weren't just
identifying with the experience in this
way that
>> you know that's that's the only thing
and you're sort of like you know I don't
know like like like selling everything
off of that.
>> Experience turn philosopher.
>> Experience turn philosopher.
>> Yeah. But being able to make sense of it
and you've experienced something really
trippy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. B's a good one.
>> Spielberg's a good great answer.
>> You could get so much value out of even
just asking him, "Hey, why did you
include Loheed and TRW in Close
Encounters? Why'd you have those
crates?"
>> He probably would have some interesting
answers.
>> The whole Project Serpo.
>> Tell me about the lore behind the Abyss
creatures.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, he that
was James Cameron, but
>> Oh. Oh, that's
>> But still, I mean, Spielberg was a
produc Yeah. But Spielberg was a
producer on Back to the Future.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Um, you know, and then obviously ET is
another one that is pretty on the nose
>> in terms of like, you know, them
studying this being and whatnot. I think
in that same vein, if we were to stick
around, you know, the entertainment
industry, I think Chris Carter for me
would be a big one. That's a good one.
Yeah, cuz same questions go to him in
that season finale that Tim Taylor
mentions in American uh cosmic or what's
her book? uh American Cosmic. American
Cosmic. Yeah. Where they're taken to the
place.
>> Yeah. And he's like, "Doesn't this place
look familiar?" And they're like, "Well,
this is actually a season finale of X
Files and it's an actual range." And so
he must have had especially after that
pilot episode.
>> Yes. Yes. One episode, one deep throat.
That's That's the biggest
>> dude. It's they go to an Air Force base
and they see testing of like lights
>> blipping around and then this
>> massive, you know, what looks like a
TR3B or you know, military.
>> Very similar. And after that immediately
was like freak of the week for like
>> I don't know how many season. Exactly.
>> Well, that craft the the artwork from
that I talk about this all the time was
was commissioned to an art forensic
artist named Bill McDonald. He also
designed a lot of the craft for like
Roswell depictions and so forth. But
Bill McDonald that craft he called it
the XF-131 Super Sentinel and that was
based off of a meeting with two Loheed
and two Northrup engineers at a Denny's
in Anelope Valley in 1992. These
engineers worked out of Helenale and
Tahone.
>> What?
>> So you can look up the original artwork.
It's called the Tahachi Triangle dated
1992 from Bill McDonald. And this is
allegedly a real craft.
>> That's crazy. I didn't know that.
>> And I've talked to Bill McDonald as
well. He won't give up the engineers
names, but you know as according to him,
this is a real craft.
>> Might have been in this diner right
here.
>> There you go.
>> Well, the other thing about the X Files
is they were real. You know, the Guy
Banister was this guy at the FBI.
>> Ironically, Lee Harvey Oswald was
working out of his building at 554 Camp
Street. Oh, yeah.
>> Or 544 Camp Street in New Orleans, which
is crazy. But he is the XFiles guy. He
was the guy like uh this guy Fred
Chrisman worked under him. He was
another FBI guy who showed up at the
Mory Island incident
>> which was literally like adjacent to the
Kenneth Arnold sighting which was
another UFO experience where somebody
said his dog got killed by UFO slag
coming down or whatever.
>> So that it's this weird So yeah, the to
your point like
>> the XFiles was a thing. He's paying
homage to this real thing.
>> Yeah. And then I mean even you look at
Nick Pope who is
>> you know kind of the the the scully or
the molder of of uh the UK at the UFO
desk for the
>> mod
>> which is interesting too. He had a 1-800
number essentially. It was like this
phone number that you would call in
>> and you know I don't know what to make
of that. I didn't know what to make of
that when he told me and like that does
sound like a position they would just
give someone to like all right you just
do this but then accidentally falling
into some real stuff. Well, it's like
it's like the weird desk at the CIA that
they say, you know, they say Kit Green
was on it, then they say Ron Pandalfi
took over.
>> Yeah. It seems like a weird desk.
>> Yeah. They seem but like that one almost
seemed performative to me like with a
public number, but then in in that same
vein, like you're getting calls from
actual experiencers and he's actually
going out and seeing these things,
>> right?
>> Um which I think is, you know,
>> I would I would have loved to have that
job. That's like a dream job. Hey, have
you reached out to Chris Carter?
>> Uh, I don't know how. I've had like
people I know try to reach out to him.
Him, David Davney. U
>> Oh, nice.
>> Yeah. Um, what's her name? Jillian uh
Anderson.
>> Um, I'd love to talk to any of them.
>> I'm sure David Davney would probably
have some really interesting stories.
>> Well, I think he's a UFO skeptic is what
I hear.
>> Oh, that's interesting.
>> That would make for a good conversation
then. I wonder if he's still a skeptic.
>> I think it's tough now, right? Like
especially if you're always associated
with that and then you see all this
stuff coming out in the news and
everybody's coming up to you being like
oh you're the guy you're Fox Boulder and
then he's
>> he probably has he probably feels some
pressure to have the correct view on it
and like now I do think the consensus is
shifting. Five six years ago I don't
think it was you know popular to say you
believe in this stuff but now
>> how many times you think you just ended
a conversation with well truth is out
there. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
>> Often.
>> That's a good choice.
>> Or like the the dude who is smoking the
smoking man.
>> Yeah. The
>> episodes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a like
>> you probably know some [ __ ]
>> Yeah. Moulders's legacy contact. That's
always kind They've always been here.
They've been here for a long time, guys.
>> But they also say that uh like Alien
Hybrids Chain Smoke or whatever. Like
streamers thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's
so wild.
>> Yeah.
>> Hilarious. How about you?
>> My number one would of just be boring.
Uh it it would be of course Dave Grush,
but in conversation with Dave Grush, not
so much an interview, but more so like a
fireside chat type situation, just like
>> three, four hours of talking about
legacy programs and legacy history.
>> Have you not had that conversation with
Dave Grush? That's not That's not my
story to tell.
>> Okay. No, but that you said like that
would be your number one thing you'd
like to do.
>> Yes.
>> Oh, I see. I see.
>> Yeah. To to do like a a video, right? To
sit down like 3 4 hours.
>> Oh, I see. I see. I see.
>> I would pay to watch that.
>> I would too.
>> That would be that would be my number
one dream. I mean, all the way from like
Roswell prior to today.
>> I feel like I feel like it'd be
dangerous for Dave Gra to sit down with
you.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
Same reason Dave Grush wouldn't probably
sit down with Bob Lazar where it's like
you guys are going to talk about some
stuff that like literally you shouldn't
be talking about.
>> Yeah, of course. Cuz like I've never had
a clearance. I can cross lines that that
he can't without being thrown in jail.
>> Should have a button with him.
>> Like just to slap the button when you're
getting too close to that line
>> cuz like I can cross lines that you know
he he will be imprisoned and made an
example of if he if he crosses. So I
have ability to cross those lines. So
yeah, you're right. It could be
>> a way to send an invite.
>> So, let's do it.
>> You know that that would be that would
be my dream just of of any guest living
living or dead.
>> Be amazing.
>> I would love that.
>> All right, let's go down the list. Who
else?
>> I think that if that conversation's
happen, it would be a sign that we've
made a lot of progress
>> because, you know, like he could be
super open about a lot of like the
deeper
>> stuff. Yeah,
>> it would be like a very good indicator.
more dates and program evolution, which
I just think with with how much
information has splited the zone would
be really helpful just to have like a
clear and concise this is how some of
the legacy programs were founded, this
is how they work, this is what they've
evolved into. Well, you're doing the
open- source version of what he did at
the UAPF, I think, is, you know, he was
known as like this really like, you
know, his mind was a steel trap and he
was just this like
>> big database of like all this stuff, you
know,
>> but you're both kind of like cut from
the same clock.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
There's like when you put two phones
together and just had AI talk to each
other.
>> It would be a great conversation OD. I'd
be really intrigued to to
>> Dude, both of you nerding out on
acronyms would be the best. You could
probably host an hourong podcast where
you say no words.
>> We could Yeah, we could speak
entirely in code and acronyms.
>> That would be a dream. I really would.
>> Oh, dude. Right here in this dino. Let's
set it up.
>> I would love to.
My number two. Oh man. Ideal guests.
So tough. I think maybe somebody at the
like Okay. If there is still a Majestic
12,
>> you know, like
>> Helen Carter.
>> Yeah. Well, I would I would put somebody
like a Bobby Ray Inman on it. And I
would love to interview somebody like at
that level where they have somewhat of a
top of the pyramid view. You know, you
always hear these like analogies of
like, you know, it's like a bunch of
blind men touching an elephant or
different parts of an elephant. It's
really hard to like piece together
what's actually going on.
>> And you even had, you know, when Jake
came on my show and Ross', it was like,
uh, I'm I'm the fingertips, you know,
and it's like we don't have all the
context. And to me, the most interesting
stuff isn't the like functional like
what's going on in the form of a crash
retrieval program. Like I'm pretty sure
that is going on. It's the metaphysical
truth behind it. What is going on? What
is reality? Yeah. Yeah.
>> That we're touching. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Who would And you think Bobby
Raymond would be the closest one to give
you a broader sort of
>> I don't that's where I don't know. And
and it's interesting because I think
with like the Malmrren thing like in
retrospect I think he was had much wider
of a scope than I ever would have ever
imagined. Thank you.
>> Um thank you.
>> So
>> very good.
>> Um so uh yeah so I think like you never
know with these people you don't know
you know maybe like there's a and then
you would guess because he was I think
he was
>> well he's NSA director and deputy
director of CIA. Yeah. Just insanely
spooky. Now, if you were to interview um
Oh, thank you, sir. If you were to
interview
>> No, that one has cheese on it.
>> Yeah. Oh, no. That That one did.
>> No, this one doesn't. This one has sauce
on it, I think. It's got a little bit of
cheese, too.
>> Oh, it does.
>> Oh, no.
>> Oh, [ __ ] It's all good.
>> Oh, nibble.
>> Do we have one without cheese?
>> We do.
>> Nice. Oh, nice. Amazing.
>> It'll start out.
>> Thank you.
>> Finding out a little bit.
>> Cut that out. I'm a little [ __ ] We're
finding out. We're finding out the
deepest the deep
>> the deepest secrets of Jess.
>> The deepest bowels of Jesse's.
>> Which one is which?
>> Thank you. They're going to IU is going
to target me with some cheese now.
>> So Jesse, if you were to interview Bobby
Ray Inman, Yeah. Of course, infamously
Jay Anderson has. and gotten some
eclectic sound bites out of him.
>> What would you do differently or ask
differently to try and pry more answers
out of him?
>> Because I'm of the mind that of of you
that
>> a great question. You should do this.
>> That is a great question.
>> I I think I think you'd have to hit on
touch on real specifics,
>> right?
>> As far as, you know, overlap that he's
had in his career with specific people
where it seems like, you know, they've
But even then, these guys are trained
professionals.
especially him and you like these people
are running your questions through a
filter of like uh can talk about can't
talk about if I if I can't talk about it
I'm going to you know if I'm going to
look like a sickopant in the future I'm
going to express openness on the thing I
can't talk about and it's a computation
and they're professionals at that [ __ ]
and so like you really have to read the
body language like but I do think if you
want to
>> you kind of, you know, make them squirm
a little bit. You got to uh uh, you
know, bring up specifics, I think,
around like, you know, overlap,
>> but even then, you're you're going off
of things that are like you have two or
three data points, you know, and it's
it's ultimately it's like and open-
source knowledge on this stuff is a
[ __ ] minefield.
>> Yeah. And all you're going to get is
like a little smile out of the corner of
their mouth when you ask like some cute
question. They go up like in the back of
their mind, they're like, "You have no
idea." Yeah, you could have a whole
conversation about his time as director
of Nuro,
>> the National Underwater Reconnaissance
Office.
>> Well, he formed Nuro, right?
>> No, Nuro was formed in 1969 out of the
need to coordinate Navy and uh CIA DS&T
reconnaissance activity. So, up until
1974, Nuro was a tugof-war between the
Navy and DS&T. And I can't remember the
specific secretary of the Navy that kind
of wagered some control back, but yeah,
around that time frame.
>> Andrew Jones. Well, I'd also want to ask
about his time at SIC specifically, his
interest in psychotronic weapons.
>> Yeah, Wacken Hut as well.
>> Wack Hut.
>> Something we don't hear about often
either, and maybe maybe this is just I
don't hear about it much, but
>> what about the Russians? Are they not
doing any underwater reconnaissance?
>> Are they not doing like water crash
retrieval or like water even like what
like what Nurero is doing? Like don't
they have their own? We never hear
anything from them in terms of the
oceans. We always hear, you know, crash.
I think one of the questions is is did
the Americans beat him to the punch?
Because under Nuro like the Ivy Bell's
programs and basically various programs
to put reconnaissance sensors and
activities on the seabed across the
entire globe. Maybe we beat them there.
So we have denied territory with a lot
of the oceans.
>> I think they have to have a program
because they have nuclear subs and if
you have nuclear subs then you're going
to attract this stuff no matter what. Y
and that's you know I think it's a true
true above land. It's true below and
then or underwater. And then they also
have this uh mountain range called the
Yamanto mountain range where they seem
to study sort of extended electronamics
>> like their Area 51.
>> It is it's a nickel mine. It's near
Kazakhstan.
>> That's the uh the dude who was on Ross
Coltard's show. He had um there's this
lady. She was like this opera singer.
>> Her father was a janitor.
>> What she thought was a janitor. And then
when he died, he left her with like all
of these files
>> and it's a book filled with diagrams of
UFOs and like trippy science.
>> Yeah.
>> And they refer to the UFO
>> Gina.
That was fascinating. I was like, "Oh my
gosh." Like, and you know, Ross told me
to this day,
>> no one's been like, "Oh, that's fake."
Or like there was no there's been no
debunks. No. Well, the the Russians also
there's this great book by this guy Tom
August um that talks about this um
basically great race to like take over
the tech of commtop like the secret Nazi
tech
>> and if you look at the Avroar project in
the US it was literally this like we
tested flying saucers that is not like
debatable
>> and there it just they couldn't fly due
to this thing called the Kanda effect
but we got all these like guys from
commto the secret Nazi stuff like mita
Uh, and we stole all of Victor Schaer's
IP using army counterintel stuff. All of
these guys that were working on reported
flying saucers in Nazi Germany, we took
over here through Avroar counter intel,
other other means. And so they I think
got a lot of this stuff too. Um, they
were called like the you know the
Habberal designs or the Habberal
project. And I think there is there are
exotic lineages of science in both in
both places. And then on the, you know,
are they interested in underwater stuff?
Uh, Dennis Asperg, uh, you know, the
Baltic Sea anomaly said that, you know,
the Russians had a presence out there.
>> Well, yeah. I mean, the Baltic Seas
obviously of very strategic importance,
and it seems like they're interested in
this object underwater.
>> That makes sense.
Okay, number two. Oh, me?
>> Mhm.
>> Um, thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Everything okay? Everything's delicious.
>> Um,
>> you know,
I don't know if I'd go towards,
you know, anybody that I don't know. Are
we This is living like living like we'd
have an opportunity to. I think Dan
Burrish.
>> Nice.
>> Yeah.
>> Dan Burish would be a big And obviously,
you know, Bob Lazar is up there. I think
he's everyone's number one. Yeah. Um,
but Dan Burrish, I think because
he's limited himself
>> to not doing any of these interviews
ever, like, you know, since the early
2000s when he came out,
>> I think he would probably have I I don't
I don't even know how that would go
down. There's so many weird stories I
hear around Dan Burrish and like that
he's under house arrest
>> somewhere in Canada and that like do not
approach like he's being literally
babysat by like ex MJ12 like type cats
that you can't even get close to.
>> That's MJ12 guys are babysitting him
>> like
>> MJ12 deputies essentially
>> like enforcement arm
>> like once you're out of the MJ12 scope
>> Mhm. um you're not allowed to just lead
a normal life type deal. You're under
like like a mafia type strict
surveillance.
>> And so he's got like
>> yeah that type of activity around
>> story is the one of the weirdest
>> so strange
>> cuz there there are things that like
corroborate other people's accounts
incredibly. There are credible, you
know, um the fact that where was that
university that he went to to like do
the public speaking event on molecular
biology?
>> I can't remember.
>> And that's on paper.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, like he was and and
>> you um it was Stonybrook.
>> Yeah. And then and which is, you know, a
place where a lot of really u bright
minds went to discuss things.
>> Extremely bright minds. It's like a
center of like really spooky physics, I
think.
>> That's right. Yeah. So, and then
afterwards to have his, you know,
schooling completely erased, not unlike
Bob Lazar where you can't track him, but
we do have this talk that he did at this
really prestigious, you know, um,
school. And so, you know, how do how do
people reconcile those two facts? like
you have really really interesting
cooperative evidence of this guy being
who he says he is
even and then you know take it a little
further he also got into the program
kind of the same way that Bob did
through um
>> Edward Teller yeah Teller recruited him
>> and or according to him but and then
there's also I think a photo of him with
Mike McConnell
>> who's NSA director and Navy
>> admiral
>> yeah Clint from Night Shift is pretty
posit positive on that, but I don't
think it's conclusive yet.
>> Okay.
>> But he's really high confidence on it.
But I don't I don't think it's been
definitive
>> because this researcher Brian Jackson
says that McConnell viewed him like a
son. The son he never had
>> and then his son died in a weird way and
it's like they swapped souls or
something. And I I I don't know what to
make of it.
>> What's also interesting is that Bur
claimed that these these beings were
sort of us from the future, right? these
two different timelines that have like
separated and that both of them ended up
being these breakaway civilizations on,
you know, Zeta or whatever, Orion, and
that they're trying to help us steer
clear of what is like imminent doom for
this planet,
>> which would have been having Hillary
Clinton elected.
>> No way.
>> Yeah. That's like that's the one thing
that would have like screwed our planet
up was having Hillary elected. Now if
you look at
>> Hillary and you know we talked to a lot
of people it seems like she was going to
be the disclosure. There were efforts to
do that
>> right? So it kind of corroborates what
Dan was saying whereas like oh that
might have absolutely destroyed our
timeline
>> I have to say for some reason.
>> That is hilarious. It's like Hillary
Clinton is the apocalyptic.
>> Right. Right. And like Yeah. To no one's
surprise, I think.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.
Naturally.
>> Yeah. I mean, and and what I mean,
there's probably an Epstein connection
to be made there, too.
>> Uhhuh.
>> You know, I'd be curious to know if
Epstein was interested at all in Dan
Burish or Bob Lazar.
>> We should search that.
>> We should search it up. Let's do it
right now.
>> Okay. Jesse, could you pass me the
ketchup, please?
>> I got you, brother.
>> Thank you, sir.
>> Cuz I mean,
>> just be careful.
Bob early 90s would have been like a
celebrity,
>> right?
>> And this guy, you know, I've seen was
obviously highly interested in trippy
physics.
>> So, would you tell me yesterday
>> about like the Los Alamos scientist, the
physicist?
>> So, Epstein has like hours recorded with
this guy Steve Bannon who's probably a
spook himself
>> and you know,
>> he was like Trump's guy, right?
>> Trump's guy operative from the 20 from
2016 era. And
they're talking and he goes, "Why'd you,
you know, put Zoro Ranch where it is in
New Mexico and he starts going on about
retired Los Alamos physicists physicists
being in the proximity
>> and he want him wanting to have
conversations with these guys and you're
like, "What the fuck?" Like, he was
literally targeting our most sensitive
programs. And by the way, Bill
Richardson, I think, was Secretary of
Energy
um under Bill Clinton, I believe.
>> He was a Clinton crony for sure. And
like he was governor of New Mexico. And
so I think that there's some sort of
connection there, too.
>> Let's see. Let's see. Bob,
>> there's a lot of Lazar. Uh but then like
there's this artist and Karen Lazar.
There's all these. So, I'm just going to
look under Bob
Lazar.
Um, no results under Bob Lazar, but
plenty of results under just Lazar.
>> Mhm.
>> I'm sorry, Bob. I'm not trying to imply
that you know uh if you're listening if
they were speaking.
>> But if they were speaking about him as
well, because you know,
>> he he sends out feelers.
>> Look up look up Kazmir, which is zero
point energy cuz I I I've heard rumors
that Epstein was obsessed with the
Kazmir. K A Z I M I R
>> uh C A S I M I R.
>> Couldn't have been further.
>> Casemir
loading.
Oh, weird.
>> Come up.
>> No, it's just my phone just like bugged
out.
>> Yeah, classic.
>> Wait,
>> when you look up Epstein's interest in
0.0,
>> dude, I'm telling you, everything's
frozen right now. I can't do anything on
my phone. That happened to me in my
McKinnon interview which hopefully will
be out by
>> Yeah. Yeah. Gary McKinnon.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I filmed it. Yeah.
I was like, I can't. My phone is
completely frozen.
>> You got him to your studio.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That happened to me, too.
>> Uh, no. No. I went out to UK.
>> Try this one more time here.
>> Dude, I really look forward to that
>> so you can watch it.
>> It's out now.
>> Oh, yeah. It's out. I should watch it.
>> In the future now.
>> Um, it comes up a lot, but Anthony
Casemir is a name
and then Hernando Quellar Huxley Casmir.
>> Okay.
>> And so these are all names.
>> No. C. What about Casemir effect? E FF
ET.
>> I know how to spell fact, Jesse.
>> The T H.
Um, none.
>> What about anti-gravity? That's
interesting.
>> That would probably come out.
>> Let's see that.
Oh, gravity. He holds these gravity
conferences or whatever, but
>> one result.
>> Okay. Where
>> pulling it up now.
So, from Robert [ __ ]
>> to Jeffrey Epstein.
>> Mhm.
um an exchange between so it starts with
um Jeffrey being like I deeply
appreciate your strong intention with
the bold interviews of the best
physicists to be quote unquote closer to
the truth about our universe and its
basic physical mysteries.
Um below is my new JFizz published
article.
Oh this is Dr. Yuri Grieov, sorry about
that. I was wondering.
>> Um,
and then I guess uh Jeffrey was CCD on
this.
>> So this is going Yeah, they're talking
about breakthroughs and
um
he goes, I waited years this
opportunity. My model predicts the
matter, antimatter, anti-gravity, etc.
that was simply stupidly forbidden to
publish in the most of uh in the most of
distant physical journals. Why stupid?
Because this barrier existed without any
experimental verification of the
opposite case matter antimatter
attractive gravity. But now it is
published and you link his publication
which might be interesting to look into.
>> That is interesting. I wonder why he
says attractive gravity cuz that's what
gravity is. I think of repellent gravity
as being anti-gravity or something. Oh,
well yeah, maybe A and B.
>> The Awave and the Bwave. Um,
>> and so then Robert [ __ ] writes and CC's
Jeffrey and says, "As you know, Jeffrey
and Closer to the Truth," so it sounds
like an organization are collaborating
on a major series for PBS on
breakthroughs in mathematics and other
areas. Uh, and we surely want to feature
you in one or more mathematics episodes
hopefully. So, okay. He was also It's
very strange.
>> We should look up closer to the truth.
>> Yeah. Griov is a physicist/art in
Germany with a idiosyncratic multiverse
theory. idiosyncratic multiverse theory.
>> Oh, one of my number one interviews. Uh,
trans surfing reality. Vadim Zean. I
want to interview that guy so bad.
>> We talk about that a lot.
>> I love that book. And he's he's I think
people say he might be a collection of
people. There's one photo of him with
these huge sunglasses on.
>> Nobody knows who he is. Disappeared.
>> Really? Oh, yeah. There isn't there.
>> No, I was thinking of Stalking the Wild
Pendulum. I'm thinking of the other guy.
>> He talk. He died in a plane crash.
>> Yeah, he's probably Yeah, he's super
trippy. He's on an interview I watched
once and I was like, this guy kind of
like knows a lot.
>> He knows a ton.
>> Yeah,
>> he was like the Israeli version of Paric
and they were like very close and then
Yeah. A lot of people said,
>> are you convinced Bharis wasn't also
with ties to Israel? I mean, he was
working really closely with
>> I think he was CIA and I think the CIA
and sad always been really close.
>> Yeah. Kind of buddy buddies.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's an interesting cat, too.
>> Extremely interesting. Yeah.
>> All right. What about you, Gerb? Number
two.
This will be another kind of boring one
compared to what you guys said, but
It would be a man by the name of uh
Edward C. Aldrich, also known as Pete
Aldrich. This guy was
>> no.
>> We talked a little bit about it last
night, but this guy was a secretary of
the Air Force and under secretary of the
Air Force.
>> His CV is equatable only to somebody
like Bobby Rayman or Donald Kerr. I
mean, this guy was CEO of the aerospace
corporation. He was
>> Taylor. He was a senior I think board
member at LTB Aerospace which was
eventually transitioned to E Systems
which was a CIA shell company and then
bought out by Rathon.
>> But as far as I understand it, Edward C.
Aldridge was pretty instrumental during
his time as under secretary of the air
force for helping programs kind of morph
uh legacy programs and take advantage of
expanding SAP security controls to kind
of hide itself within other programs and
program cover offices.
And there's actually a a very real
tangible observation of this. Um I can't
believe this is unclassified, but if if
you find a document called the history
of SAFA, which is the administrative
assistant to the secretary of the air
force, which is a pretty high level
position within the air force,
specifically the headquarters of the Air
Force, um there were what was known as
outside activities within the SAFA and
these were created in Pete Aldridge's
time. uh not necessarily created but
kind of morphed in Pete Aldridge's time
which was a collection of air force
activities that existed outside of the
air force that the air force had
administrative and operational control
over.
Now, the interesting thing about this is
these programs that were stuffed under
SAF AAA, the administrative assistant to
the Secretary of the Air Force by
Aldrich, bypassed the SAF AA's uh
special access program oversight
channels, which is the SAF A um SA H A,
sorry, I mean SAF AAZ, my mistake, which
is infoite.
>> Yeah. Yeah, me too. I was actually
offended. And so that that's like a
that's like a big that's like a big
light bulb going off that under um
Aldridge he kind of morphed these
outside activities under cover offices
that bypass traditional special access
program oversight channels.
>> That's like a really big like red alert
that that
>> where did you get that information from?
from that uh public history and that was
doing stuff for my Air Force video which
a lot of it talked about SAF AA
>> because that SAF AA position two senior
positions there a man by the name of
Russell Eeiler and William E. Mccclure
are likely one of them is likely the
gatekeeper that Chris Melon was talking
about back in 2024. Do you remember when
Chris Melon postman
>> Yes. Do you remember when Chris Melon
took to Twitter he posted an image in
response to Sean Kirkpatrick leaking
Chris Melon and Kirkpatrick signal DMs?
was um Chris Melon talking to a senior
USG official and saying, "Hey, I think
we tracked down the SCES, senior
executive service gatekeeper in the Air
Force, named redacted thanks to some
work by like a good guy named Alex Katz
and myself. It's either um former SAF
AHA, Sensitive Activities, Russell
Wiler, or AAZ William E. Mccclure most
likely."
>> So, it's really interesting there. It it
I would love to of course he wouldn't
speak about it but to understand
>> um that that role under
>> be like no comment.
>> No comment. You got me. No comment.
>> I've had a couple of those.
>> Yeah. I think one of the big
conversations that needs to happen next,
at least in my lane with the legacy
programs, is finding out how they
morphed and evolved from what you could
consider the Manhattan Project 2.0 to a
blind man touching the elephant.
>> Yeah. And I think that's a very critical
uh milestone
>> and and why there are no physicists.
Again, this also should be out. There's
a there's this video I just did with
Eric Weinstein and Eric Davis and Eric
Weinstein is like, "You're telling me
these crafts break physics and there are
no physicists on the program." And Eric
Davis goes, "Yeah, I checked with the
guy, you know, I was exploring this
through NIDS and, you know, and and OAP
and, you know, met with a lot of these
people. met with five people on the
crash retrieval program and they all
said it was just material scientists and
no physicists and and Weinstein I think
rightly so is like I know like some of
the smartest people in the country and
they have no idea any of this stuff is
real like why are you if you're like
struggling to get it to work at least in
its most vital form the way it was
working as the NHI had it working or
what whatever
>> there what's the reason
>> there is no good re it's actually like a
brain deadad policy If you had to think
of a reason, what would it be?
>> They're afraid. They're afraid of some
like shifting tech gets out of hand.
Everybody has a hold of it.
>> It would be something like with the
invention of the atom bomb, not only did
like instrumental like experimental
physics become dangerous, but
theoretical physics itself became
extremely dangerous.
>> Yeah. And and compartmentalized,
you know, certain
>> science itself.
>> Exactly. literally like the top like the
top layer of like you know think think
of theoretical physics as like the guard
rails to reality like they literally and
this is the kind of narrative somewhat
is like string theory was pushed out as
like a limited hangout where like you
bump up against the right stuff and they
farm you out and maybe that then they
you know
>> I see they work with you they think
Renaissance Technologies this uh hedge
fund that this guy Jim Simons who
contributed to fundamental physics with
the churn Simons equation and also was
an NSA codereaker and then starts this
hedge fund called the medallion fund
which does 30% year-over-year returns
since 1989. Literally made hundred
billion dollars.
>> Oh my god, you say yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And has the collection of like uh it has
all the colle the the most differential
geometers in the country. They all go
there and you have to sign an NDA for
life once you go and you're you're like
you're in or you're out sort of thing.
And then Stony Brook he oversees he he
was Stony Brook and he also over saw
Brook Haven National Labs. So it was
this kind of iron triangle. And then the
guy uh David Spurggle is the guy who
runs the Simons Foundation and he did
the NASA UAP review panel. He [ __ ]
was in charge of it in 2022.
>> There's a lot of crazy connections.
>> I mean
>> the interesting thing is it's crazy.
>> Holy.
>> It seems like the programs used to have
top minds and physicists, right?
>> Yeah. Like a premium example of that we
were talking about um with with Kingman
like Jesse said but that Chris Melon
exchange is um Dr. Ed Dah.
>> Dr. Ed Dah was a primary figure named in
the Kingman crash by primary witness
Arthur Stansel Jr. and um Dr. Ed D was a
premier physicist that you know worked
on the Manhattan project and according
to Stansel was a was a a pretty
important figure to the early efforts of
legacy programs. He would go on to serve
as like executive senior VP for TRW on
their mission uh systems group uh
component and so forth. So it seems like
over time that that that
>> yeah mid-century had a lot of had a lot
of these guys and then something
happened to where they were like we
cannot have these guys and so I wonder
what that was whether that's an event
you know some type of leak or whether it
was just the um you know taking that
information projecting it forward and
being like what happens if this gets
into the wrong hands type deal and we
need to really clamp on this and the
only way we can do that is to have
people who don't understand what they're
looking at look at this stuff
>> because otherwise it breaks reality for
everyone.
>> And the number one string theorist over
the last 50 years is a guy named Ed
Whitten. He's known as like the Michael
Jordan of string theory. Like he's so
much more advanced and smarter than
anyone else. His father was working on
anti-gravity at Martin Corporation's RAS
division, which was literally their
their anti-gravity division group. and
he's on he's giving an interview for the
uh I think American Institute of Physics
and he's on video saying Wright Airfield
commissioned me to do gravity and now if
you email him he's like 103 or
something. He goes I can't talk about
that. I'm so sorry. It is wild.
>> Funny you mentioned Michael Jordan
because I am the I am to string theory
what Michael Jordan is to string theory.
me too.
>> Me as well.
>> Okay, Jesse, number three. Who's your
Who's your third?
>> Before we get to number three, I got a
question for both. Have you ever had to
cut something out of a podcast?
>> Yeah. based on like classified stuff.
>> Uh
>> they said you can't put that in there
because it's classified.
>> I went too far. I shouldn't have said
that.
>> No, no. I've cut stuff out out of out of
my what I perceive as my own safety uh
lines to cross that I don't really want
to attract the eye of certain
individuals
>> of your own self.
>> Yeah. So, not
>> because I don't really do that.
>> No, but I I've cut stuff out like of
what I say at the end.
>> So, while editing, you're listening to
yourself and you go, "Wait a second."
>> Yeah. like maybe I shouldn't do this.
>> Really?
>> Mhm.
>> It's happened quite it happens.
>> I mean, think about the [ __ ] that he
know where it's like, you know, he's
like
>> I get it.
>> Everything's like a shot across the bow,
you know,
>> but he's also so bold in these videos
that I can't imagine what he's holding
back.
>> Yeah.
>> Like a good example is um in the in the
Air Force project, I I put forward the
name Terry Phillips as the gatekeeper
people should know in the same sentence
as Glen Gaffne. Right.
>> Right. Yeah. There's other names there
that right now I just I do am a little
too worried to talk about
>> right
>> because they're bad people. Terry
Phillips is POS a real bastard. But uh
maybe
>> what does that acronym stand for?
>> Hey, I don't have a fest on the channel.
>> It might be the only.
>> But yeah, just uh stuff that I kind of
worry if I put out there I'll either
attract the eye of people I don't want
to attract um and and kind of take their
fire or I'm just kind of worried for for
myself. I would not assume that they
haven't heard about you.
>> That's true. They they
have.
>> How about you?
>> There
is one instance I can think of where
somebody was like uh this would like
endanger lives if you put this out. And
it's like and it was like a I think it
was like a reasonable
>> Who was the guest? Can you say the guest
list?
>> I I don't know. I feel I feel No, I feel
like if I No, it wasn't. But I feel like
if I said it would be him.
>> What's that?
>> People would blow him up.
>> Yeah.
>> So it's to him.
>> Yeah. Like not that many female but
>> um
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But and then
>> the lives of of whom? Of the people
involved in what he was talking about.
>> Anywhere near it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I you know I don't know
>> how many syllables in their name.
>> All right.
>> I don't know. and then and then a couple
of other times, but uh you never know if
it's classified, you know, like if it's
like because it's classified or
>> Right.
>> But
>> I' I've had to cut out something.
>> Yeah.
>> John Ramirez.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. It was the only time I've ever had
to cut out something. You know, I I've I
haven't done that many government
officials. I haven't had that many
government officials that I know of. Um,
but you know, Lou was one I got to say
that like when he went in, he's like,
"You ask me anything, I don't want any
of the questions beforehand. Um, and
I'll respond how I can respond."
Although he was very evasive in a lot of
the questioning.
>> He didn't He never asked me to cut
anything out.
>> And he has a playbook of responses.
>> That's right. Yeah. And you can tell
when you listen to it. A lot of people
just roll their eyes halfway through.
They're like, "We're not getting
anything out of this guy." They type.
Um, but John Ramirez did. There was
there was things that we touched on and
uh this was around the time Matt Brown
had come out with the Immaculate
Constellation document. So you can
extrapolate from that what you will. I
won't get into it, but there was some
discussions there that uh he had to
double check.
>> Yeah.
>> And got back to me with a negative.
Yeah, I have to. He's like, I'm not sure
about this. Let me just check. And when
he got back, he's like, no, 100% you got
to cut that out. He's like, I was told
Sternly cannot talk about this.
>> Which which is interesting because of
course his part was cut out of the age
of disclosure, right? And I know he
talked about the same things on Age of
Disclosure.
>> Ah, that's probably why.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Also, cuz he start he he does get into
it's it's intelligence. It's related to
intelligence gathering, which is what he
did his whole life.
>> It's an asymmetric capability.
>> Exactly. And it's very sensitive.
>> Yes.
>> Uh and something being used currently.
So it's probably it's literally national
security reasonable.
>> Yeah. Nothing to do with like spooky UFO
stuff, but I mean potentially a little
bit adjacently, but yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Number three. Number three.
>> I got to thank you guys. You guys go
first.
>> I'll think
all time.
>> I would do I would want to interview the
Pope.
>> It's a good one. The current one.
>> Yeah. I I actually have a crazy story. I
would
>> Leo, too. He's He's an American. He's an
American.
>> Be a fun podcast.
>> And there's just all this stuff around
the Vatican knowing
>> stuff about UFOs.
>> Having a slice of Chicago deep dish with
him.
>> Oh wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Sick.
>> Yeah, it would be sick. Yeah,
>> that's a that's that's a great one.
>> And and like I just think there's so
there's the magenta crash like was under
you know I think was it Pope Pas
>> Pope Pas the 12th
>> the 12th like it was like you know under
his jurisdiction and so and then he
helped back channel this the information
back to FDR. Yeah.
>> After the war.
>> Yeah.
>> Because he would have been you know part
of the axis
>> during the crash.
>> Totally.
>> After the crash. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Done. Thank you. And then you have
Pulka talking about access to the
Vatican archives and you know her going
with Tim Taylor and hinting that they
know much more than meets the eye.
You're all good.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> No. and and the whole you know you look
at the institution and you look at
obviously like we'd mentioned like you'd
mentioned like with Diana like a lot of
the research and the words they use and
stuff that was potentially changed in
the translation to sort of mask a lot of
this stuff like the word cloud
apparently
>> um was actually like uh object or
something and like and so they replaced
it with cloud and
>> Roman flaming blazing Roman shields or
drums and whatnot
>> and then and they have in um the I think
it's like the rough translation is like
uh St. Ann's Cathedral, there's once a
year with within the grounds of the
Vatican, there is a UFO research group
that meets up
>> and discusses this stuff.
>> I So I went I'm I'm coming out with a
Vatican and UFOs documentary about the
Magenta crash. And I interviewed
Marone's grandson who says that Maronei
was part of RS33
and this is this is the most
embarrassing part of So I I I'm in the
Vatican as part of this like, you know,
event. It's like some like
interdisciplinary faith thing or
whatever that I was invited to.
>> How did you get access to this?
>> So, this dude that reached out around my
Peru mummies dock was connected with um
Kiran Iliam Xenov.
>> Yeah. The president
>> the president and
>> Micronia or whatever. I forget the
>> of Calia. Please get it right.
>> So, my apologies.
>> They are a population of 300,000 and
they're beautiful people. So,
>> nothing.
>> No, definitely not. and
and he got this like elaborate beautiful
so he was also president of the world
chess federation feday which is like
being president of FIFA you meet
everyone
>> and he's the man he's the nicest coolest
guy I bonded with him like I was like
this guy's so cool and um you know maybe
you know they have different standards
of you know he might he might not have
done everything above board as dictator
of his country I'm not going to like you
know comment on that but to me he That
was one of the most groundbreaking
episodes that I've ever seen. Just like
on another note, I'll let you finish,
but that was insane, dude. The seeing
you up there on like some type of
political throne next to like this
president, you know, it dude, it it's so
so so surreal to see.
>> And he said so many insane things in
that interview. So many insane.
>> He said he spent a ton of time with
Kissinger and Kissinger seemed to know a
lot about the UFO stuff.
>> Oh, yeah. and he said that there was a
president of another country who he was
friends with who got abducted on a
fishing trip but was afraid to speak
about it and I'm like I know this guy's
not you know maybe maybe there's like a
little bit of embellishment going on or
something there's he's not lying
>> he's not lying event there and and and
more more than his own experience is
these little interactions with other
world leaders and stuff that really goes
like oh this is just a boy club
>> yes
>> of like of information. Like these guys
love
>> sort of sharing these little winks at
each other. Oh yeah, there's bodies.
>> Like this type of deal. Like it really
cements that for me when I watched that
interview. I was like, "Oh yeah, once
you're in, you're in."
>> To totally, totally.
>> Yeah. Anyways,
>> so yeah. So, okay. So, this guy who
hooked me up with that interview. He uh
was So, so yeah. So he had this this
invite to this Vatican event or whatever
and it was like faiths of all you know
it was like every religion or whatever
representatives would go or whatever and
Kiran was there and he had this big
chess piece that he wanted to give to
the pope and the pope ended up like kind
of scurrying off and then
>> not a fan of chess.
>> What's that?
>> Not a fan of chess or
>> um Yeah. Not a fan of chess apparently
and didn't care. Yeah. Yeah. No, he
didn't like engage with anybody. And um
but then there are some people like left
over from the event like who were in it,
you know, some official looking
cardinals or whatever who are walking
kind of the grounds and like shaking
hands or whatever. And so um dude that
invited me and Kissan are like huddled
up there and I see them talking to one
of them. And so I go up and uh shake the
guy's hand briefly like you know meet
him for a second and he gives him the
chest piece because he's a
representative of the pope and then they
kind of walk off and then somebody comes
to me after he goes you know who that
was you shook you know you whose hand
you shook I go no he goes that was the
uh cardinal secretary of state which is
the number two to the pope and has more
political power than the pope the pope
is like the figure And this is like this
like the dick a complete fumble. I kept
asking him about UFOs, but I don't I
don't know what the guy's face looks
like, you know?
>> Yeah, you don't have a set of trading
cards with all the cards on.
>> No, I don't. And so I So I I'm like, "Oh
shit." And then I'm like in the back of
my head, I'm like, "Well, at least he
probably doesn't know anything about
UFOs." And then I find out like a week
or two later that like in certain
instances he's expressed interest in
UFOs.
>> Oh,
>> but you know what?
>> Something. What's that?
>> He knows something.
>> He knows something.
>> Something of interest.
>> And so, but anyways, I I still I wanna I
want to interview one of you.
>> One of the red guys or the white guy.
>> That's That's a really good Yeah,
>> I can't wait for that doc.
>> Yeah, it's going to be fun.
>> Super exciting.
>> It's going to be cool.
>> Oh, man. Yeah, especially cuz since you
made the reverse of that dock with the
sort of like Satan worshipping rocket
builders.
you have like the dichotomy here which
is really interesting. I would I would
also have a religious figure. Um but
mine would be
>> the I heard about you know this
Carthusian monk
>> that apparently lives in like uh
Vermont.
>> Yeah. Where did we hear that?
>> John Stewart.
>> Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I remember that
when he was on your podcast.
>> Yeah. And a lot of people are going to
roll their eyes at the at the sound of
this guy's name. John Stewart. I love
the guy. I think he's fun. Um he's
hilarious and he's got gumption and he
just doesn't give a [ __ ] you know, and
he even considers himself a useful
idiot. Yeah. Which I think is like it's
a refreshing take.
>> It is refreshing. No, it's it's better
than the people who don't know.
>> That's right. It's like I disagree with
John on a lot, but I love to get dinner
with him. He just seems like somebody
who who you would enjoy spending time
around in a personal setting.
>> Definitely. And he and he's a showman.
Obviously, he's ex wrestler, politician,
car salesman,
>> car salesman. He li
>> I was up late last night cuz he has this
video he came out with saying Whitley
Streamer is a CIA agent. He goes, "This
is going to break the internet news of
2026." And you find out that he's
quoting William Cooper a pale horse. I
text I texted Whitley. I was like, "Is
this legit, dude?" And he's like, he
goes, "That's absolutely nuts." And like
And Whitley saying, "It's absolutely
nuts." You mean it's absolutely nuts?
>> How many times did John refer to himself
in the third person?
>> I have a lot.
He was wearing an orange jump on
>> but your episode with him was amazing
and I think it showed how deep at least
in that isolated context the alien
interview.
>> Yeah,
>> that guy knows his [ __ ] He's done a lot
of leg work on that specific video and
probably uncovered, you know,
potentially some of the most
>> I mean he he he he came up with a list
of names that were in that room, you
know, and those names he then
independently sought to verify one by
one and was met every single time with
either a I'm not talking about this,
don't call here again or uh you know
that was my husband, he would never talk
about work. So, it was it was really
interesting. Like you looked at it and
you go, "Oh, there's definitely uh
something here." Um, but then he
mentions these. So, apparently how this
goes down is the uh CIA or the DIA at
the time hires remote viewers
>> to remote view, you know, targets or
whatever. Now, they're getting pulled in
the direction of this monastery in
northeastern United States. Um, and this
tall, this sort of big white building is
what they're saying. And something
you're seeing is the people that are
there are going to help you. Those are
the people you need, right? So, they
were sought out by first of all, remote
viewers. Now, I reached out to Joe
McMongle about this cuz that would have
been roughly around his time. Uh, he
said it rings a bell. He would get back
to me and he got back to me and he was
like, "No, we u we were actually tasked
for a monastery in that area, but it had
something to do with like hauntings,
which is also really trippy." WA.
>> Um, and I think it had to do with it was
like it was a private thing. It wasn't
like a government thing. Um, so it was
like post uh Stargate. But regardless,
he said these two two they took six of
them and they had them work as
counterintel
>> um sort of remote viewers and train them
and then two of them were really
talented and those two were flown out to
S4 apparently um meant to communicate
with this being. And so John said he has
a guy on the inside. He won't tell me
his name. And I've I like credit to him
because I've in person to just give me
the name. Like give me give me
something, dude. I got to go. I I got to
go see this guy. Um I find out the name
of the monk. Um but not the name of the
person who interviewed the monk. So that
part still is a little nebulous, but
apparently this monk is like 90 some
years old. he's in good health, still
alive, and spilled the beans and said,
"Yeah."
>> To you, he spilled the beans.
>> No. To this to the guy that John was
getting his information from.
>> Have you reached out to this monk?
>> Uh, no. Um, and I know probably a lot of
people have. I I heard through um well,
through John uh that Rick Dodie
>> has like apparently like sent pizzas
there and like letters and facts.
>> No way.
>> Yeah. to like try and
>> creepy.
>> Yeah. And so what that tells me is that
oh Rick Dodie also doesn't know about
this
>> and that he has a genuine interest or
you know some other nefarious
connection.
>> Yeah. You never know with
>> you never know. But I just thought
dropping that name was kind of
interesting. Um and but he has some
other person on the inside that ended up
writing a letter. Now I've penned a
letter.
>> I have a letter ready to go. Um, I put
the video out and I thought I'm gonna
wait a bit because they're probably
going to get inundated with
>> and so I'm gonna wait a bit, but you
can't contact them in any way that
disrupts their vow of silence.
>> Mhm.
>> And you uh I mean you can't infer any
type of cover up, conspiracy, anything
outside of like
>> perhaps historic like historic purposes
or faith purposes. Those are like
>> that's the bare minimum. But as soon as
you talk about anything else, you're
going to get shut down, shut out for
good.
>> So, how did you approach it as a
historical basis?
>> Yeah, pretty much that I'm a researcher
and that there were um rumors
circulating that uh during the cold war
era um that some people within certain
agencies would have hired u people with
monistic ties
>> uh to you know sort of aid in some of
their operations. And now we're hearing
um more fringe
um sort of conversations around this
matter. And I wanted to give you a
chance to set the record straight about
uh any involvement that you might have
had during that time uh you know to
correct the history books was like you
know the way in. But I haven't sent it
yet and uh I'm I'm a little reluctant
because I know that like if they don't
answer they're just going to leave it on
red.
>> Yeah. I think you got to do it though
cuz he's a 97.
>> Yeah.
>> So
>> yeah.
But interesting, that guy like to talk
to like talk to that monk.
>> But how would you talk to him though if
he's in a bow of silence? Would you have
to exchange?
>> So apparently allegedly, according to
John, he broke his vow of silence to
answer the questions. Um, and that guy
has been in contact with this monk's
family.
>> Mhm.
>> For a long time.
>> Got to find that guy.
>> Yeah. He would have been, you know, the
communicator, which is so crazy to think
about.
>> It's wild.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And he he you know he's
saying some trippy stuff like you know
how how they were you know literally he
was like listening to in his mind and
like talking to the general colonel or
whoever it was in the room at the same
time like real time translating
>> right
>> that's so crazy
>> it's wild
>> but you know science fiction reality I
don't know but I would regardless if
this person is real which I think he is
and if he's lying I would love to hear a
lie from a 95year-old monk I would love
nothing Well, well, it makes intuitive
sense. Like you have the telepathy tapes
and you have like the idea of like one
one sense ghost. Like all those kids are
they say autistic, but usually they're
autistic. They're mostly non-verbal.
>> That's right.
>> And so this guy's taking a bow of
silence. And so there's there's
definitely something around like an
accentuation of senses when something
else goes and spending that much time
just hermetically sealed and meditating.
>> Yeah. Correct. They're they're in
constant contemplation about God.
>> You're probably your your paradigm is
going to look much more like one of
these beings likely. Correct. Or or if
not, it's going to be just deviated from
a normal human beings and you're going
to throw a person like that at
>> at any entity to try to translate. For
sure. Yeah, that's I I guess that's the
catch 22 about taking that vow of
silence is that you do acrewue all of
this uh amazing knowledge through your
contemplative practices and your deep
pondering of you know spirituality and
the source and all of this but at the
same time you have no outlet.
>> Mhm. You can't articulate it.
>> Right.
>> Well, it's like this with like Jesus and
the Buddha and it's it's always like
ears to hear. like your communication is
only as good as like the measurement
instrument on the other side and how
much it resonates and so like there's
going to be this like translation error
like if you get to a certain level of
wisdom like it's inherently not going to
like trickle down in this like onetoone
way.
>> Yeah.
>> Trippy.
>> That would be I would love love if you
were able to get in contact with that
monk.
>> Yeah. Who knows? He's definitely not
watching this podcast, so we can say
whatever we want.
>> [ __ ] that guy.
>> I mean, even if he's not talking about
like
>> Sorry if you probably strike me down
right now.
>> I think you'd probably have a better
chance communicating with that person in
an astral form.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, you know, and I think you suggested
that or you
>> I did. I told you. A [ __ ] Yeah. Um, it
was so funny cuz when I broke this
story, when I heard it first from John
to Omar, our buddy Omar, um, he was in a
monastery in the oldest like monastery
in the world, like St. Catherine's
monastery or something,
>> um, during that time. And I was like,
whoa. I told him about this monastery.
He's never been in a monastery. And it
was the last day of the year. It was
January 31st. And I was the last person
he would talk to before the new year.
>> And uh, it was just like this weird
trippy synchronicity. Yeah. What are we
at? Number three,
>> I think. So, yeah, you guys you guys
have the pope.
>> Another boring name.
>> Exactly. I'm going to say another boring
name.
>> Major Major Colonel
>> cuz you guys have the pope or you guys
have monks. I And then you got me who's
going to say Donald Kerr. So, it's like
a huge step down in interest.
>> Who's Donald Kerr?
>> Donald Kerr was he was um you know
either director of the NRO altogether.
Some some pretty senior elements of the
NRO. He was uh within DS&T um on MITER
uh EG&G special projects VP or director
okay director of Los Alamos like spook
spook spook
>> this guy might be NHI
>> the most the most juicy robust CV I've
ever seen in my life but the problem is
with some of this guys just like the the
monk Donald Kerr is ancient so a lot of
these guys so is Bobby Ray Inman it's
it's kind of a race against time
>> hopefully their testimony has been taken
in and and saved for historical
purposes, but you know, the guy's super
old and from from what I understand,
he's been one of the most ingrained
legacy people. Um, as you can just tell
from his background,
>> I would watch eight seasons of Gerb
doing deathbed confessions.
>> I've I've I've tried with multiple
people and they and they say they will
tell me on their deathbed, but not
pre-record to release their death.
>> They don't know. Exactly.
>> They all they all think they're going to
live longer. Everybody who dies thinks,
"Oh, when I get out of this, I'm buying
an RV." like or I'm traveling the world.
This is it.
>> There's one very specific person that
has, in my opinion, one of the most
>> worthy testimonies that must be heard
and he says, "You know what? When I'm
dying, I'll summon you to my deathbed
and I'll tell you, but the guy's in
really bad health and so I don't want
him to be gone as my friend."
>> And you don't want to be like, "You're
dying."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't want him to go
cuz a he's my friend and b like there's
no guarantee we could have that
conversation with with his poor health.
What's what's making him so reticent in
sharing that now that he's in decent
health? U does he not trust you or does
he not trust that the information will
fall into the wrong hands?
>> Reprisals. We uh during the course of
our communications, there have been
several instances where, you know, some
some keys will be dangled above him
saying, "Hey, you better stop or like
we're taking away your pension." This
guy retired at a very high level within
um a certain element of the armed
forces. And he has family members that
rely on him to live because of
disability. So, he's ultra worried
because he's disabled himself. That
pension gets taken away. He can't live.
Those members of his family can't live
either. So, that's his big pain point
that they love to target.
>> This guy seen bodies. Yes. Well,
>> we talked that's the guy we talked about
last time. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Seen body, seen tech, seen craft.
>> Yeah. Seen our craft, too.
>> Is this the same guy that Greer
mentions?
Did Greer remove this guy? You know what
I have to say about about Greer and some
of his um some of his his testimonies
that he's collected. Some people will be
very shrewd and approach Greer from a
doctor patient privilege because of
course Greer is a licensed doctor and
they'll enter into an agreement with I
didn't know that.
>> Yeah. They they'll enter into an
agreement with Greer where Greer is in a
position of like a health caretaker.
>> Yeah.
>> And so all of their communications with
Greer will be protected via HIPPA.
>> And so when Greer releases those, he's
in direct violation of
>> those laws. So Greer has collected and
distributed testimony illegally on
several occasions of people who approach
him under the guidelines of HIPPA
>> and he takes it upon himself to release
that
>> and talk about that and that is both
highly in unethical and just wrong.
>> And so you didn't answer my question.
>> I I have no further comment to say
there.
>> All right. It sounds
>> I did this.
>> A lot a lot of people have come across
Gre's desk.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> Yeah. He was like the guy
>> including
>> Yeah. and and
>> of late because there was a time at
which you know like like we've talked
about before I think he did
>> the right thing by platforming guys like
Mccandish on you know the the the
National Press Club in 2001
>> and the other one
>> but yeah 2023 with Mike Herrera but also
done the wrong thing of taking people's
testimonies and expanding on them to
suit his needs.
>> Mhm. Wow. And probably I don't know.
>> That's a pretty That's a pretty big
claim, too. And that's like, you know,
>> is that something he's nervous about?
Like what is what do you think? Like
what's what's the like the h the HIPPA
violations?
>> Yeah. Like why why would because he's
continued to do it?
>> Well, I I think if you were uh trying to
protect the program, I think you would
use him now as a fly trap.
>> He's been legally mandated to take down
their documents because he's been
threatened with legal action because of
the HIPPO violation. and he still talks
about him.
>> Yeah. And there's weird stuff that
you've pointed out go missing in like
really key interviews like he did a
great thing with Jonathan Wigan
>> and
Steven Greer just cut all these parts of
the interview and he's also I think
>> um Lord uh Hill Norton Admiral Hill
Norton in um the UK who's head of the
you know the the naval fleet there.
>> Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks so much.
>> Coffee soon.
>> I'm good with coffee.
>> Yeah, you good? I'm good for now, too.
Thank you.
>> Um I think you know James Fox got that
interview and then Steven Greer was just
like that's my interview and he like cut
James Fox's parts of the interview.
>> He did wake as well and I talked to
James Fox about it. I said hey do you
remember shooting this? And he said yeah
of course. I was like do you know Greer
cut out all of your parts? He said no.
>> So crazy.
>> Wow. because you can hear in the
interview uh not like the interview
posted to to YouTube but in the archives
of the DPI archive you can hear sort of
the raw interview and at certain parts
James Fox will start to ask a question
then it'll just cut
>> he's acting like it's him like come on
dude
>> it's okay he can squat 700 lb or
whatever
>> leg press leg press
>> big difference there actually how how
How much can you like press?
>> I don't know. I don't like leg press
much because it it doesn't do anything.
>> It does. How How's leg press going to
help you in athletic movements,
functional movements?
>> You're a big guy. You don't do any
weight training?
>> I do a lot of weight training, but more
so like um more so compound movements
instead of like a leg press like
deadlifts.
>> Yes.
>> Like how how how often?
>> Jiu-jitsu four times a week. Two times a
week.
>> Wow.
>> As you could probably tell,
>> you train six times a week.
>> Where do you have time? That's crazy.
Imagine depression.
>> Yeah, I you got to to stay sane
sometimes on this subject with T
totally.
>> I do I do exercise. I do like three days
a week. But
>> I just love it. It helps calm the mind.
Um
>> there's something about matching up with
like a worthy opponent in grappling and
and getting to a position where you
could choke the life out of them if
you're not in a controlled sport
environment. It's just like there's
nothing more satisfying than um matching
up against somebody worthy of of skill
and grappling and out besting.
>> I don't know. Solving a puzzle is being
satisfied sometime.
>> It's a very prival thing. I love it.
>> Playing bridge.
>> Chess. Uh, you know, a lot of people say
it's really close to
>> Yeah. You whoop my butt in chess last
time we played. Shame.
>> What do you guys do to to stay sane and
grounded in your spare time with this
subject?
>> I mean, what
>> I used to surf and then I moved to Texas
and I don't surf as much there.
>> I used to surf in California. Yeah, I
know you went to like Portugal surf and
stuff, but
>> yeah, surf all the time.
>> You're good at surfing.
>> I'm like, okay. Amazing, but it is
definitely really hard. But yeah, I'm
like decent.
>> No, it's cool.
>> Yeah.
>> You ever encountered sharks?
>> No.
>> As a Canadian, that's like our number
one fear.
>> Oh my god.
>> That's like sharks cuz we don't have
them. So, we're like, it's like an
abstract not real fear. Like even where
there are a ton of great whites in
Northern California, I think the last
like death due to a great white shark
was like 2013 or something crazy like
that.
>> Oh, it's still not zero.
>> But yeah, I don't know. Surfing, running
now, more
meditating, but I could use some more
compartmentalization for sure.
Yeah,
>> it's definitely spend a lot of time on
UFOs and crazy [ __ ]
>> Yeah, cuz you got to like you got to do
so many things in between these episodes
that people
>> Yeah.
>> might not realize or might might think
is uh
>> a lot of people think a lot of the brunt
of the work is like having those
conversations, holding court, coming up
with questions. It's more than that.
It's like it's the amount of brain power
it takes to devote to the subject on the
off time. Like you got to live a normal
life, but then also I got a guest. I got
three guests coming and they each got
four books. I got to read at least one
of their books, you know, and so you're
catching up on reading during that time.
And then on top of that, you're getting
inundated with all sorts of other, you
know, inquiries and future, you know,
um, opportunities. and you're constantly
like in this world and the second you
let up,
>> you feel like it starts, you know, like
you want to maximize. You want to strike
while the iron's hot type deal.
>> And that's that's tough. That's tough as
um it's a tough mental game to play. So
maybe offsetting that with like physical
activity is probably the healthiest.
>> Yep. Well, that's why I I don't know
about you guys, but I'm so thankful I
don't really spend time doing like news
of the day stuff or kind of capturing
news. I see my bundle of nerds.
>> Yeah. Like um
>> also you're going to sw like with UFOs
you're going to swing at bad pitches if
you don't do that but you're definitely
going to swing at bad pitches if you're
trying to do like the hot new thing.
>> We all we already swing at bad pitches
after doing research.
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> That's very true. Yeah. guys like Vetted
or um even like the night shift guys
like these guys covering or u
psychoactivo
>> people covering like the today news like
to me when I started this channel I did
it a little bit maybe for two episodes
>> where I was like all right what's going
on let's do a little roundup and then I
went oh and another thing happened
another thing happened I'm taking notes
and I'm now I have to research because
the second you don't you look like a
buffoon
>> and so I'm just like researching
constantly because news is coming out
daily about this stuff and I'm like
there's no way I'll ever be able to keep
up with this. I am the most easily
scopable person now because I have no
time to research anything and I'm
constantly
>> and you're bought in a priority to the
whole topic obviously
>> and I'm responding to every single story
and I'm giving my take and my take
becomes shifted and molded according to
you know
yeah exactly that I'm that I'm consuming
>> and um
>> stress it like heightened my anxiety
>> right
>> I had to think about did I have the
right take on that did I say the right
thing? Oh, I made a mistake. I should
redact that. Like these stresses,
>> you're like, my hats off to those guys
doing it.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I'm glad people are out there
covering that because there is a need
for that type of content. I think a lot
of people enjoy it. Um but it's not for
me. It's something that uh yeah, defin I
don't have the heart. I don't know how
to do it.
>> I feel like sometimes it reduc in its
best form. It's like you're covering and
amplifying stuff that like needs to be
amplified. Especially cuz like all this
stuff gets drowned out often by like
>> That's true.
>> the World War III we might be like on
the verge of you know other kind of
prosaic political events. I think in its
worst form it's like uh Sports Center
for or TMZ for UFOs. Yeah. And it's like
>> you managed That's right.
And you managed to take this like topic
that touches on like onlogical truths,
sacred truths, like what is reality like
you know itself like the most important
questions and you've managed to turn it
into like this he said she said like
food fight thing and it's like how come
on
>> that's a good way of putting it Jesse
like at best it it is something that
like everybody kind of wants to be
updated on and you have and at worst
it's literally like high school drama.
Yeah.
>> So,
>> yeah, it man, I don't know how anybody
doing that doesn't suffer from some type
of,
>> you know, offset depression, anxiety,
like cuz that would affect me. I I've
been, you know, I've had my bouts of
depression. I know. I was like, when I
got started, I was like, "No, no, no.
>> I got to stay away from this." Like,
>> and then when you you view the topic and
think about it, your knowledge is as
wide as a ocean, but as deep as a
puddle, right? Cuz you don't have the
time or ability to really specialize in
various parts of the subject. And as we
all know it gets so weird so quick and
all of us focus and specialize in
different aspects of this topic and you
know we we lack in knowledge of each
other's topic and there's just so much
to learn about various aspects of of
this subject you know experiencers
science and physics legacy program
stuff. It it'd be so impossible to cover
all of it at once.
>> That's a good point man.
>> Well I'm glad you guys are a part of it.
>> Me too. Me too.
>> I'm very grateful.
>> Yeah. Same. I'm glad.
>> I'd feel crazy if you guys weren't
around. I know.
>> Yeah, you got an island.
>> Yeah, you
hold on.
>> Don't leave me.
>> What island, Jesse?
>> Jesus Christ.
>> All right. Well, boys, this is
delicious. And this was fun.
>> Yeah. So fun.
>> Thanks for uh thanks for hanging out
with me, the flying saucer. Appreciate
it.
>> Oh, yeah. Thank you for having us.
>> Thank you for having us, Chris.
>> Great apple pie and burger. Yeah, it's
delicious.
>> All right, let's get the hell out of
here.
>> Let's do it.
Oh,
hey.