Today's guest is Gen Z's existential
philosopher. You are what you think
about. You are your thoughts. So, you
materialize your life by controlling
your thoughts and how you believe and by
proxy to actions that you take. A boy
from Nebraska making videos in his
parents' basement. He was a
self-described loser who didn't go to
prom, skipped his own graduation, and
the only friends he found were indebt
philosophers. Not a single person texted
me 7 months, and not even my own family
texted me. But I would pray to God
often, either take away my loneliness or
give me someone to be with.
>> Now on the same apps that he says are
rotting Jenz's brain, he has over 1.5
million followers by sharing the wisdom
gatekept by the modern education system.
We are in a marketing holocaust. You
don't even have a chance to develop your
own identity. You have to make the
effort [music] and have the agency to
start creating more than you consume. In
this episode, we'll explore the deadly
sins corrupting this generation, expose
why social networks have made us less
connected than ever before, and question
if he's just a pseudo philosopher trying
to profit off Jin's pain or one of the
only men trying to guide them toward
truth. Algorithms are perhaps the most
dangerous threat to our society right
now. And the reason they're so dangerous
is that
>> Jet Franen, welcome to the Jack Neil
podcast.
>> Thank you. I feel very honored to be
here. a good place to start here. Why do
you think everything feels off these
days? I feel like 2020 was a sort of
psychological line that was drawn in the
sand where we
post the entire
it's not even just pandemic but
transition to online we entered what I
refer to as the marketing holocaust
where we are drowning in endless
marketing where essentially you don't
even have a chance to develop your own
identity. It's basically thrown at you
between algorithms. You can't go on the
bus to work without there being some
sort of advertisement that's on there.
And what happens is whether you choose
to pick this up, you are at some point
or another naturally going to find
things that you want to identify with.
This could be subconscious, which is the
scary part because you're not even aware
that you're sort of slipping into it.
But because we're constantly having
things shoved down our throat, we're not
ourselves anymore. We're almost like a
bunch of different collective groups,
but that isn't really the truest version
of ourselves. And because of that,
there's sort of this distance that's
been created between meaning, which in
my opinion is where you're closest to
yourself and who you really are. And
then by proxy, you go about the world in
ways that align with that. And then what
we're almost engineered to be by
algorithms and by marketing. And I think
that's fundamentally the reason why we
have a meaning crisis in the world right
now.
>> What have been the effects on jinzy men?
Like what are the behaviors that you're
seeing are different? What is the
attitudes that you're seeing are
different in this culture where we're
constantly being marketed to every day?
>> I think a big one's resentment. I think
what happens is when you're being
marketed to, the number one way that
marketing works is they don't just show
you a product. They show you Bruce Wayne
with that product. So now what you're
doing is you are looking at Bruce Wayne
and saying I want to be that. Well, what
does Bruce Wayne have? He has the Rolex.
He has the suit. He's got the charisma.
All this stuff. And whether you are
aware of it or not, over time there's
sort of inevitably going to be a
distance between you and the person that
you want to become. And what happens
then is you lack peace and you start to
build resentment and you're like, "Oh,
why am I not this thing?" And the answer
is because that's unrealistic. And even
Bruce Wayne himself, I mean, he's a
fictional character, but let's take a
highly looked at individual in the male
community right now. I just off the top
of my head, Marlin. So Marlin's this
really good-looking guy. He's
charismatic. He's got a lot of things
going for him. He's got, you know,
attention, money, everything. But the
thing is, people don't see Marlin behind
the scenes. So they think that this
almost fabricated I I'm not calling him
fake, but this version of himself that
he shows the internet is who everyone is
comparing themselves to, which is a
highlight reel. And you are sitting in
your bed late at night when you can't
sleep and you're thinking about all the
different flaws that you have and how
you're not where you want to be in life.
And so naturally, this sort of builds up
a resentment inside of you. And this
compounds over time. This is when it
gets very dangerous because you slip
into you you try to find communities of
people that sort of reflect what you the
values that you believe in. I mean
everyone's guilty of this. I'm guilty of
this. But what ends up happening is
essentially you are radicalized
not necessarily although that that word
has very negative connotation as though
it's not the truth but you become
radicalized in that you think that your
way is the only way and that the world
is against you. And if you're paying
attention, every group or I like to call
them archetypes. All the different
archetypes that exist in the world, they
all in some way, shape, or form can fall
very easily into this sort of victim
mindset. Oh my gosh, it's me verse the
world, right? It was for millennia there
were legitimate groups of people that
were, you know, far more oppressed than
others. And nowadays, the people that
used to be at the top of the apex, you
know, take a guy like me, white,
straight, male, now all of a sudden we
feel like we're the oppressed groups.
And every single group has this. And
that's why you've probably heard the
term oppression Olympics. But
specifically with Gen Z men, you feel
like all the generations before you had
this huge leg up and now everyone's
telling you, "Oh, you have the be you.
This is the best situation anyone could
be in." And then you go about your day
and you're like, well, I don't really
see how that's different. And so
naturally, you start to form
absolute and extreme ideologies. And
once again, sometimes this could be
subconscious and people aren't aware of
it. And it doesn't apply to everyone,
but on average, this is becoming
increasingly more common amongst our
generation. I would say it seems to me
that a lot of men have
higher than before expectations of what
they think it is to be a man or what it
is to be successful or what it is to be
fulfilled and as a result they develop
this resentment and can turn to
different vices as a way to cope with
it. I wanted to ask you what are the
seven deadly sins of this generation?
>> That's a good question. The first one
and the biggest one is consumption.
Because what happens is you have people
that are consuming more than they're
creating. And I believe that this is a
direct line to resentment. But
potentially worse than that is
depression, anxiety, various mental
health issues. The average person in
America and really in all first world
countries, they are spending more time
online scrolling, watching TV, YouTube,
whatever it is, than they are actually
producing anything of substance. Now,
what you create doesn't need to be
public. It doesn't need to be what me
and you do. I'm not saying you have to
go and make videos, but you need to you
could be journaling. You could be
painting for yourself. You could be be
doing something. But humans are
naturally expressive creatures. And
there's one quote, I don't know who says
it, but I think Jim Carrey said it in in
some speech where he's like, "The
opposite of depression is expression."
And so, in other words, almost like the
cure of depression is expression. And
what happens if you're going to school,
you're going to your job, you come home
every day, there's really nothing else
to do. You might go to the gym and then
you're sitting there and you're like,
"Well, I have nothing to do." and
creating something seems like too much
effort or oh it's not going to amount to
anything. So instead let me just go on
my phone for a little bit just 15
minutes. All of a sudden that 15 minutes
turns into 3 hours 4 hours and now you
repeat this process. It becomes a habit
for 10 years of your life. Let's say you
you spend your 20s, you know, spending
more time consuming than you're
creating. You're going to look back and
not really have much to show for
yourself. And what's really scary about
this is it's never for millennia this
has not been the case because we have
not had access to so much various forms
of media to consume that you were forced
to create. I was having a conversation
with my dad and I was like when you were
in your 20s what did you do on your free
time? He's like I mean I had to go out
with my friends. I would just find
something to do. I would you know maybe
try to focus on establishing my skills
in whatever career path I was pursuing.
And so these things are sort of absent
for our generation, right? You can
easily just go on your phone and all of
a sudden, you know, like I was
mentioning before, hours go by. And
we're all victims of this. We've all
done it, right? I I do it. I've gotten a
lot better. But what's interesting is I
can say firsthand, I used to have very
bad mental health issues, especially in
late high school and through pretty much
the first three years of college. And
what I was doing was I wanted this life
that I thought I was I believed I was
entitled to a certain life. Not for any
good reason. It was I just thought it
based off of watching all these videos
online and I would be like, "Oh, I'm the
type of guy that would do that. Are you
familiar with the term success porn?"
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's like I'd go online and I see a
video of Naval Robocant talking about
some business idea and I'm like, "That's
genius." And then I literally get a
dopamine hit as though somehow I
formulated that thought myself. I see
David Gogggins running really hard and
I'm like, "Oh yeah, it's 3:00 a.m." I'm
like, "I'm the type of guy that does
that. I'm not going to do it right now
because it's 3:00 a.m." But then the
next day comes and nothing happens. And
so consume, consume, consume. And then
you're bound to basically get depressed.
You're bound to compare yourself to
someone like Marlin. And then you're
like, "Where's my life going?" You have
to make the effort and have the agency
to start creating more than you consume.
Last October, I started creating more
than I consumed. I could very proudly
say that since October, not a single day
has gone by where I've consumed more
than I've created. And because of that,
my entire life has changed. But more
than that, it's really I've started to
shape my own identity. I've started to
have a different outlook on life. I lost
that resentment that I used to hold. I
lost that entitlement that I that I
thought I was owed in life. And that's
where I started to see real progress. I
think that's that's the number one sin
>> because you're saying that if you create
content, if you create in general, uh
you build your own identity, but if you
consume it, then someone else is picking
that identity for you.
>> Exactly. So what's happening is people
are being handed their identity and
they're under the illusion that they
drew that conclusion in the first place.
Most of the time what someone's identity
falls into is who speaks to them the
most in their experience. What group of
people can validate how I feel? The
entire reason why Andrew Tate blew up
like he did was because he was one of
the first, probably the first mainstream
guy maybe besides Jordan Peterson that
was talking about the struggles that
young men were facing. And it was such a
almost taboo topic to talk about because
as I was saying before, it's like for
millennia men have been on top of
society and really the socioeconomic
state of the world and everything like
that. And so when something doesn't feel
right, it's like, well, how can you
complain because you've been on top? And
so no one would talk about it. Then
Andrew Tay talks about it and all these
guys are like, there's something about
the way that he speaks with such
conviction that I'm attracted to. And
then all of a sudden you have I wouldn't
say an entire generation of men but a
very big percentage that are now not
really secondg guessing anything that he
says or that sort of sphere of beliefs
or ideology say. They're just kind of
going with it because well they
validated me with one thing so that
means everything else they say is right.
>> Um which is a very slippery slope and
you you have to check yourself cuz
>> there's so much there there's flaws with
everything. you're being brainwashed if
you don't think that there's something
wrong. And so th this is such a good
point honestly is that so often people
will get attracted to a figure or a
group because they say one thing that is
true at the time and then maybe they'll
even say another thing that's true at
the time and then they slip in poison,
right? And it's not helpful to your
life. Like I don't know, you start
watching a creator and they're telling
you to go to the gym and then you end up
buying meme coins. Probably not the best
creator for you to be following long
term. You have to actively choose which
ideas of theirs are the good ideas, you
know.
>> Well, the problem with that, I would
say, and I'm sure you agree, is that
critical thinking is sort of a a dying
skill. Nuance is dying in real time. And
the reason it is is because like I was
saying, we're in a marketing holocaust
and that is a form of marketing, is it
not? So what happens is you're flooded,
your brain is flooded with so much
information. The real skill is like you
were just saying, deciphering what's
true and what's not. And the internet is
so full of just so much information. A
lot of it, I would almost argue the
majority of it is just completely false.
it is sort of used to make people feel
better or for the person that's creating
that information. There's some sort of
ulterior motive whether it be views,
money, maybe there it's a uh research
group that is being paid out by someone
that they're going to interest.
>> And what ends up happening is now the
internet is flooded with so much
information that really the skill is
figuring out what's true and what's not.
And the average person cannot decipher
this. And so that's why
real true information that's very
damaging to certain groups of people,
the government, whatever does exist out
there on the internet and it is true,
but they don't really care because it's
it's one fish in a sea of millions of
fish. So, who's actually going to take
the time? And then once they do, you're
going to have people that are sort of
refuting those claims and it's a
recurring cycle. I'm curious uh and
we'll get into the other deadly sins in
a bit, but from like you seem to me like
someone who went down various rabbit
holes, went on a self-development
journey over the past few years. And
when you think about truth,
do you think most things are just
untrue? And you think truth can only
come from conversations between people?
Do you think truth can only come from
like yourself? What do you think it is?
Well, I think to some extent you have to
acknowledge that every person has a bias
regardless of how much they want to deny
that. Uh myself included, everyone has
an ego and sometimes these things can
get in the way. You think in your head
that you're processing logic first and
then cross referencing logic with your
own personal experiences, but really
you're processing how you emotionally
feel first and cross referencing that
with your personal experiences. And so
as it relates to what is real, what's
not, the truth is is you need to somehow
disassociate your own interest or what
you want to be true or how you're
feeling in the moment with okay, what
makes logical sense and what is going to
be backed up by multiple sources or let
me just forget about whatever I've gone
through in life and let me just try to
objectively look at it. And it's
impossible to be 100% objective. It's
it's simply not possible. As much as
people on the internet will try to tell
you and then sell you something because
of it, it's just not possible. So, you
have to be very
curious. I would say that that's a skill
is genuine. Curiosity is where the
desire for the truth is greater than
your desire to feel good.
>> What are the rest of the sins?
>> Quick side note, something I thought was
strange and I have the stat here. It's
80% of people pay way too much for their
car insurance. And for the people
listening to the podcast right now, I
hope you guys know that my goal is for
you to either make money, save money, or
find truth. So, I found this useful
tool. Basically, you just put in your
zip code, how many cars you own, and it
instantly shows you whether or not you
could be saving money. It's super
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process takes less than a minute. So, if
you want to try it out and figure out if
you could be saving money right now as
we speak, just go to jacknil.com/auto
or scan the QR code on screen. You can
also hit the first link in the
description. But anyway, guys, back to
the podcast. What are the rest of the
sins?
>> First one was consumption. Second one
has to be conformity.
>> Conformity is to some extent can be a
good thing. I know it has a negative
connotation. Normally when people say
you're conforming, they're trying to say
that you're fake. And I myself have
definitely had a lot of conversations.
I've made many videos about this this
concept. But to some extent, humans are
social creatures and you need
unification, especially if you want to
work towards a common goal. So that
sense of conformity is good. But there's
a lot of nuance to it because what
happens is like we were talking about
earlier when you start to see something
online and you like that and it
validates how you feel. All of a sudden,
slowly but surely, and this happens very
subconsciously, you start to sort of
fall into that mold, that archetype, and
it's so slow, but it's so gra it just
it's it's perpetual in the way that it
comes. You can't really escape it. You
don't know that it's happening. All of a
sudden, you know, two years ago, you
were moderate on your political views
and now all of a sudden you are like,
you know, let's just say hardcore
liberal. I whatever ideology you
prescribe to doesn't matter to me. But a
lot of times what happens is people just
gradually fall more and more into a
certain belief system because the way
that humans are designed is you are
seeking validation because from a
evolutionary standpoint a a sort of
tribal aspect if you didn't fit in with
you know the community that you were
born into. I mean you're committing not
just social but you could be committing
physical in the sense that you're going
to be an outcast and maybe they kick you
out. So you have to conform to some
extent and then what happens is people
are
scared to deviate from the mean of
whatever group of people they believe
in. And so this is what what real
brainwashing is is you're so attached to
a certain ideology, belief, group of
people that deviation even to the
smallest degree is almost it is almost
you're you're cutting yourself out from
that group. And this is so scary to your
brain, your mind, that even if you deep
down do think else-wise, you're going to
reject that and you're going to suppress
that because your brain saying, "I can't
afford to lose my entire community and
by proxy my psychological well-being."
And so
this is dangerous because yeah, you're
just sort of fitting in there, but all
of a sudden you're not your truest self.
And I'm not sure if you're familiar with
the work of Carl Young. I love a lot of
his work, but I think his best work is
talking about when people suppress their
true identity, uh, this inability to
confront who they truly are willly and
subtly dictate the decisions that they
make in their life because their life is
ran by their subconscious mind. So if
you can't sort of face these shadows or
these aspects of yourself that you're
suppressing for the sake of conformity,
all of a sudden the next 40 years of
your life are going to look a lot
different and they're going to look more
for the intentions of the group than the
intentions of yourself. And there are
fewer and fewer modern-day avant guards.
You know, you have you have less people
standing out. you have less people that
are
being the I I wouldn't say the truest
version of yourself, but I would say
adjacent to
their spirituality and who they
what they align with in the absence of
pure opinions, in the absence of
validation or the need to fit in. And
long-term, if we take an entire
generation that feels this way, and I
would argue that our generation is
suffering from this idea of conformity
more than these philosophers that lived
hundreds of years ago talked about
simply because of social media, all of a
sudden, if
20, 30 years down the line, our society
is going to be almost robotic. It's
going to be
depressing in the sense that everything
will be shallow. Everyone will It's
almost like LinkedIn. Everyone's fake.
Everyone knows everyone's fake, but you
got to do it because it's the norm.
Imagine if we apply that to society on a
grander scale. And as time goes on, this
compounds more. And as time goes on,
people stay online more. And all of a
sudden, these issues snowball and it's
potentially greater than we might be
able to fix in our one lifetime.
>> Can you go through the rest of the sins
and then we'll break down one more? I'm
curious what you have.
>> Entitlement is a big one. That's one
that I've suffered with a lot of my
life. feeling like you
are owed something simply by existing.
The woman in the red dress, the woman in
the red dress specifically though, it's
somebody asking you, "Hey, do you want
to go do that thing?" Not necessarily
the thing itself. Hey, do you want to go
go out to the bar tonight? Well, it's
not that you do or don't want to go to
the bar. It's that your friend asked you
and now you somehow feel obligated or
you want to be a good friend or X Y and
Z. And it's just the path of least
resistance is to say yes to that. So the
woman in the red dress, but more
specifically the person that's sort of
aiming you towards it. I would say
victim mentality is another huge one
with our generation. As I was saying
before, everyone can find their
community on the internet that is going
to validate how they feel and then they
think that they are right. Okay. So this
is another big one and it kind of goes a
little bit with entitlement. Resentment.
>> Resentment is so easy. There's a Carl
Young quote where and and I'm sort of
paraphrasing this here but he says
people are suffering the effects of
their unlived lives. They become bitter
critical towards
not the world but themselves because for
example they wanted to be an author.
They went to school, got an English
degree, got a literature degree, and
then they see someone else has a
published work, and they read that and
they're like, really? Like, that's it?
But really, they never chase their
dream. They never did anything. So they
become resentful because they see
someone like me on the internet, someone
like you, and we're just two guys that
are curious about the world, interested
in certain things, and we decided to
take the leap of faith and put ourselves
out there and, you know, went through
all the failures, and got to a certain
point, and then they see us, and they're
like, "Oh, this is just a regular video
of Jack talking to some guy. If I was in
Jack's position, I would be doing the
same thing. I would be doing potentially
better than him." So they build up
resentment. And once again, social media
amplifies this because it doesn't matter
what you're interested in, somebody is
out there doing it. And this is a very
easy
frame of mind to fall into.
>> Right?
>> The last deadly sin
and the one that gets the most
overlooked is passivity.
When you are
going with the flow that the system
designed for you, I'll give you an easy
example. This is what I did and this is
what a lot of the peers people that I
grew up with did. You go to school and
you just try to do a good job at school,
balance having fun, but really you want
to get good grades because you want to
go to a a prestigious institution or
just you're trying to get your degree.
You go to school, you get an internship,
you eventually get that job lined up.
You're doing the steps that you were
told to do and all of a sudden you do
the right thing for the next 30 years of
your life and you are the definition of
mediocre. And I think mediocrity is one
of the greatest tragedies and it's
really bred. Not that everyone is meant
for something greater, but I do think
that a lot of people
find contentment and they become passive
because they check the box where
societyy's like, "Okay, you you did
enough. You're not going to get shamed
by any of your family members if you
work a nineto-ive." They're like, "Hey,
you're paying the bills. Good on you."
And listen, all respect to the people
that work nineto-fives. I come from a
family of people that work 9 to5s and
they certainly work hard but I almost
relate it to quiet quitting where okay
I'm doing enough and so the fact that
there is effort that's being put out is
that's enough for me to
feel like my peers are going to respect
me and people don't even consciously
understand that this is sort of a a
great motivation or
benchmark that they're dictating their
life by if my peers are going to
validate me or not. Who's going to make
fun of you if you are making $80,000 a
year and you are an accountant and on
the weekends you go golfing with your
friends and you have a wife and you have
kids and you're getting by. You're not
super rich, but you're you're,
you know, still able to afford things
and by all means, you live a respectable
life. And I'm not saying it's not a
respectable life, but what I am saying
is these people are coping and thinking
that this was a life that was meant for
them and that that's all they could do.
When in reality, they're passive. And
being passive is the path of least
resistance. I remember when I was a kid,
this sound, this might sound silly to
you, but it was 2020, right around the
time that I was referring to that
psychological barrier. I was a sophomore
in high school. We had just the school
had closed for the year for COVID and
that TV show Outer Banks came out. Have
you seen that show?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I watched that show and I saw
a group of kids that went out in the
world and they did whatever they wanted
and instantly I was just mesmerized by
the show. I don't know why that show
captivated me so much. All of my peers
were talking about that show and I
remember sitting there just being like,
"Wow, I this show makes me want to be an
actor or it makes me want to be like a
surfer with a bunch of friends, you know
what I mean?" And I really like truly
was like, "This is this is it. This is
the life that I want." I was getting a
dopamine hit from watching television. I
was getting a dopamine hit from
scrolling on Instagram reels and seeing
edits of these people that I wanted to
be like. And I became passive. And once
again, and you'll notice a theme with
sort of the things I'm talking about
here, it's very subconscious. It's very
subtle. You don't notice it's going on,
or if you do, it's just so minor that
it's not something that you feel the
need to confront or address immediately.
So, all of a sudden, three years went by
and I didn't do anything. And I was
like, "Oh, I I really want to want to be
an actor." Three years went by, nothing
happened. I didn't do anything. But this
is the standard. It's you want to do
something. It seems a little out of
reach. It seems a little bit unre not a
little bit, a lot of bit unrealistic. It
It's unrealistic for you to have a
podcast with 3 plus million subscribers.
That's literally the top 0001%. I mean,
it's basically impossible from most
people's standards. So, if I want to be
the next Jack,
why should I even try? like I just I'll
just get the dopamine hits from seeing
him interview some of the biggest, you
know, most successful or most well-known
people in the world. And deep down, I
think that I can do the same thing as
him. But so, so that's enough for my
brain to cope. But it's really just
passivity. It's really the inability to
take responsibility for your life and
and have agency.
>> I love that. It's like the things that
are actually the problems in your life
are the subconscious. Yes.
>> Uh behaviors that you don't realize
you're doing. Like it's like when I
think about what God a lot of people
worship, it's the one they don't realize
they worship. You know what I mean? It's
like uh I mean this is a little heady
for this point of the podcast, but I'm
sure you're familiar with like
narcissism.
>> Mhm.
>> And it's like narcissism is the idea
that like you are God. And like when I
think about society right now, it's
almost as though everyone worships that,
but they don't call it narcissism
because it feels so real to them. They
just like worship whatever their own
desires are. And I I think too what
you're saying with uh the person at the
playing golf with their friends on the
weekend, making 80K a year, like the
fact that they get no criticism is
validation that they're on the right
path, but do you think that that's the
case? Like, do you think being on the
right path means getting no criticism?
>> Oh, that means you're on the wrong path.
If you're getting no criticism, I think
if you are doing something and you are
excellent at what you do, which I would
argue that potentially the purpose in
your life is to figure out what you're
good at and by proxy you will enjoy. I
think if you're good at something and at
least in my life experience, you enjoy
what you're good at. You find that
thing, you become good at it.
People are going to resent you simply
for the fact that you are becoming
successful at this very thing. And the
average person, think about your
hometown to anyone that's watching this
right now. How many people from your
hometown really stand out as
individuals who have achieved
sort of I I don't want to say status
because it doesn't have to be public,
but have become widely regarded as the
top in their respective fields in life
at whatever they're pursuing. The
chances are for the average person, if
you're not from a major city, you might
have zero people in your hometown that
really fit that. Okay, they're the top
01%. How many people have actually been
able to become professional athletes or
actors or whatever it is, right? And
when you sort of see that and no one's
going where they want to be and then
they start to see people online that are
that exception, they are the standout
person, naturally they're going to build
up that resentment and envy you. So if
you're not getting criticism, if you're
not getting hate, you're not doing
something right. I I I can't even think
of one per Can you name me one person in
human history who was great at what they
did and it was in any way, shape, or
form known and they didn't get hate. But
they're not actually angry at you. It's
more so a projection. So they're angry
at themselves and you're the poster.
Especially if you're in the public eye
like me or you. More people are going to
know, more people are going to see. And
then that just becomes like an easy
copout. You're, you know, a billboard on
the side of a of a giant building in a
city. So more people are going to see
that it's easier for more people to
project off that obviously
metaphorically here. But the reason that
I think more successful people will push
you more is because they also like that
competition. I competition really
motivates people. For me, especially
when I was starting, when I was in the
realm where I was pretty much just
trying to break out and stand out a
little bit, there were so many people in
my niche that were doing the exact same
thing as me. I would see a video
They would maybe have a thousand
followers more than me. They were
getting a few thousand more views a
video. And I would watch their videos
and I would be like that I am so much
better than that. Like I I know that I
am better than that. And I would get
pissed off. Not at them. I wasn't hating
them, but I was more so mad at where I
currently was. And then I would go in my
parents' basement and I would then
dedicate 16 hour days to figuring out
what type of video I wanted to make,
executing the video, doing all that. And
I would just do it day in and day out.
And then I would pass that person
eventually. And then boom, it's on to
the next one. And that competition kept
me going. And it really got me to where
I am now. And I there's still
competition. There's still places that I
want to go to. And that's been healthy.
There there's a way that you can turn
that to be healthy.
>> I think friends are overrated. I think
enemies are often confused with
competitive friends. You know what I
mean? It's like the person that's going
to push you the hardest is the person
doing the same thing as you. Yes. And
they're competing. I want to ask, what's
the most important part of your
backstory to understand who you are? Are
you a person that had a lot of friends?
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description. But anyway, guys, back to
the podcast. What's the most important
part of your backstory to understand who
you are? Are you a person that had a lot
of friends? So, when I was younger, and
when I say younger, um, up until 7th
grade, so middle school, I was actually
extremely well-liked. I was po, this
kind of sounds a little bit
narcissistic, but I do think I was
popular. I
had was the athletic kid sort of that
fit into that jock and I was good at
school too. So I was I don't know I was
I think I was held in high regards by my
peers and I was doing sports and I sort
of built my identity around that stuff.
Super vain but when you're a kid I mean
it kind of that's just kind of how it
goes. You haven't developed enough to
know some of the deeper stuff. And
around 7th grade going into eighth
grade, I decided to cut off some of my
closest friends who were, you know, the
most popular guys in school. And the
reason I did it sounds super silly, but
I they were starting to get into that's
around the time where, you know, people
are doing more mature things. They're
starting to maybe do drugs, vaping,
drinking, hanging out with girls. I
think you know where I'm going with
that. I come from a very
honest, hardworking Christian family.
The values that were instilled in me is
like you what matters is the type of
person you are and the effect that you
have on others. And you know, I never
really saw my parents drink when I grew
up. My siblings weren't doing anything
crazy. So the household I was very
blessed, very privileged in the
household that I grew up in. And I
didn't want to go down that route. I
almost got I would almost say I was
scared when I saw my friends start to do
that stuff. And so I sort of pulled
away, but I still was in sports. I was
still friendly. It wasn't like there was
a bad falling out. It was just we turn
from friends to acquaintances. And then
eighth grade happens, freshman year
happens, and I'm I play baseball, I play
basketball, I play lacrosse, I'm, you
know, in the extracurriculars,
very involved in school. I'm doing the
things that an individual that would
have sort of a trajectory of being very
social, you would assume u is going on.
And I don't know what it was, but I just
really got to a point where I couldn't
stand a lot of my peers. I thought that
a lot of them were very fake. I saw the
sort of hierarchal nature that begins to
develop even in middle school, but very
much so in high school. I saw how all
the stuff they say at the movies was it
was exaggerated but it was true in in
terms of like there is a hierarchy and I
found myself pretty much for lack of
better terms I was the [ __ ] of the
friend group that I was a part of and I
would I use friend group loosely there
because I think they were more
acquaintances than friends and I wasn't
inspired by this group of people but
they were sort of the popular jocks they
were well established and liked in my
school and
I don't know what happened But I just
couldn't really take it anymore. I was,
you know, kind of done with it. And so I
decided to I I wouldn't say that I
necessarily
expelled myself from that. It was, you
know, I kind of became a little bit
bitter and I don't think and I think
rightfully so. They didn't really like
me anymore. I was kind of being a little
bit of an [ __ ] And then I end up,
long story short, by sophomore year, no
friends. No friends at all. I was still
acquaintances with all these top people.
But for example,
we had it was
homecoming the dance and we're sitting
at this lunch table. This is freshman
year and it's like all of the this
friend group, the guys and the girls
sitting at this table. There's probably
20 of us there and everyone at this
table was going to to this homecoming
together and I wasn't invited. And
naturally, I'm not going to show them
that I was affected by the fact that I
wasn't invited. But how would you feel
if literally every single person in your
friend group openly discussed plans that
they were doing in something as formal
as homecoming and then they didn't
invite you? And that really pissed me
off. And I think that what really
frustrated me was I wasn't even these
people weren't impressive to me. They
weren't they didn't have any sort of
natural they some a lot of them were
better at sports than me, but I was more
interested in intellectual pursuits.
When I was younger, I kind of did sports
cuz that's what my family put me into.
But I thought that these people were
just kind of shallow and I I don't know.
So I was resentful as I was alluding to
earlier in this. And then all of a
sudden, you know, I just distanced
myself. I felt disrespected. I distanced
myself. Now the rest three years of high
school, it's co hits. We're alone. And
you know, I quit the sport that I was
doing. I didn't even like it. I realized
the entire time I was doing it was
because I wanted that identity of the
person that played sports. I wanted that
friend group which deep down I didn't
like at all and I don't they didn't like
me at all. So all of a sudden I'm
spending my Friday, Saturday, Sunday
nights alone. I'm doing school. I became
very very
intense about school. I was trying to
become validictorian. I was you know
heavily involved in my studies. That's
that's the time that I fell in love with
reading books. I started reading books.
I was very much a what people would call
performative or pretentious reader back
then before those terms were popular.
But I would read classic books. I would
study. I started getting into politics.
And I really deep down this was cope. I
wanted to be smarter than everyone else.
I wanted to know things better. I was
naturally better at debating. And so I
would sort of get into I would provoke.
I would get into arguments and I would
win. I was good at them. But that like
who was I as a person? And so I sort of
had to go through this arc where at the
end of the night I'm just alone. And so
this starts to compound deeply when you
are a I think friends to some extent is
cope. But as Aristotle would say in the
Niko Machinian ethics to live a virtuous
and happy life you need friends. It's
just I don't think it's as important
when you're young but surely in your
adolescence you need social experience.
And so that was gone sophomore through
the rest of high school. I was still
acquaintances with these people. I knew
they didn't like me. They knew I didn't
really like them, but it was kind of
like, we'll just be cordial, whatever.
Senior year, I kind of loosened up a
little bit. I'm like, all right, there's
no no point in holding on a grudge to
these people. It's going to be whatever.
And it was fine. Senior year was was
fine, but I still wasn't social at all.
I go into college and I say, "This is my
turning point." So, I get into college
and I'm thinking, you know, I I have I
don't have any of the attributes that
normal what you would say your your sort
of poster boy, your ideal type of
individual who's a part of the male
loneliness epidemic would be. I would do
sports. I could I knew how to talk to
people. That was never an issue for me.
And I wasn't like super hideous to look
at. I didn't have things that you would
a normal person would think would
exclude you from anything social, but I
just had no friends. So, I go to college
and I still I don't drink or do drugs or
any of that stuff. I still haven't to
this day. I didn't think that made me
better than anyone. But I started to
realize that my freshman year of
college, people really this was a huge
part of the culture. American culture is
very heavily into drinking, nightife,
stuff like that. That
just didn't align with who I was. And so
I didn't join a frat or anything like
that and I still wanted to be social. So
I would try with these people and I
would make friends kind of like school
friends in my classes that you would go
to twice a week. So I was like I'm
talking to these people for two hours
out of the whole week and they were all
in frats and so we never you know
developed anything further. So I would
spend my my days in my dorm room. I it
was literally in this basement. There
were cockroaches. They called it the
dungeon. Very depressed. Very depressed.
I didn't have much going for me. Was
trying all these different online
businesses. Failed at them all. I had
nothing going for me. I was like, I'm
just if I'm at, by the way,
>> I was at Arizona.
>> So, you're at ASU University.
>> University of Arizona. And then before
then, you were in
>> I'm in Nebraska now, but I grew up the
first 21 years of my life. Technically,
my home base was uh like northern
Chicago. And then I
I got these like sales internships and I
would go and do those and I would make
friends there for the summer and then
they would disappear and that would be
that. And I was like I started to
realize a lot of things were temporary
kind of hurt a little bit more and I as
I was growing into adulthood I was just
desperate to try anything. I was
grasping at straws trying this trying
that everything failed. So I was deeply
deeply alone. It it it really got so bad
where my parents had to sit me down and
they're like, "You need to go to a
therapist. You need you need legitimate
help because you're you're lacking
something here. We can tell you're
bitter. We can tell something's wrong."
And they were, as I was saying before,
they're like, "Why don't you just fit in
like your siblings or or like you don't
have a anything about you that would
make you, you know, repulsive to other
people? like what what is it about you
that you just can't seem to socialize?
And I just became so obsessed with
understanding the way the world worked,
philosophy, psychology, all these things
really on a surface level at that time.
And I was like kind of coping, but hey,
I'm just going to do me and I'll see
where this goes. And then eventually I
start recording videos. those videos
start to do good and now all of a sudden
my life is, you know, complete 180. I
have people in my DMs that I looked up
to when I was a kid. I have very, you
know, high value,
successful friends, and I kind of use
that loosely because they're doing their
own thing and we live at I live in
Nebraska, you know what I mean? So, I'm
moving in a month and I plan on
traveling and and doing all these
things. But to the core to understand
who I am and why I have the belief
system that I do, it's because I don't
think I met a single person who was
lonier than me between the ages of 15,
16 to, you know, the first half of 22.
I'm 22 right now.
>> Did you choose loneliness?
>> I think it would be somewhat cope for me
to say I chose loneliness. Do you think
you chose it at first and over time it
became harder to stop? like you became
addicted to it.
>> It is addicting. It's especially
addicting when you start to see the
self-destructive behavior other people
do and how you don't want to be a part
of that and you do form this
I don't know if ego is the right word
but you you look at yourself in a higher
regard when you're social. Have you ever
read Notes from Underground by Dosioski?
>> So this book long story short it's about
the underground man who's this guy who's
deeply conscious and he's smarter than
other people. He truly is, but he's very
aware of that and he's like, "Oh, I hate
all these other people because I'm
smarter than them and I'm more conscious
than them and I'm I'm 10 steps ahead of
them." And he gets resentful and he
starts to become almost paralyzed in
life because he doesn't do things
because he's constantly overthinking
everything. And I feel like to some
degree I fit into that that mold. But it
would be co if I said that I fully chose
isolation for myself because I still did
long for connection for pure validation.
I wanted people to like me. But the one
thing I was never willing to sacrifice
was what I believed in and my ideologies
the way I carried myself. I was always
very vocal about my opinions from a very
young age. Everyone in my family said
this when I was
>> six years old. Like Jet, you always are
very vocal about what you believe. It
could be the most random thing. It could
be about sports. I would argue with
people that Steph Curry is better than
LeBron my entire middle school career.
You know what I mean? So,
>> would you say you're a disagreeable
person?
>> Depends how well I know the person. If I
am meeting you or it's the first few
months into me knowing you, I'm
extremely agreeable. Actually, I tend
not to try to get into arguments if I
know people. I for most of my life I've
avoided confrontation. Was always scared
of confrontation. That's a little bit
different now, especially that I've been
in the public more. But if I know you,
I am a disagreeable person. And if I
love you or respect you, I'm extremely
disagreeable because I think that's the
ultimate form of love. So, how many
years would you say you spent like very
minimal time talking to people?
>> Six years. I would say six years. It was
really from end of freshman year, I'll
just call it sophomore year of high
school through
up until senior year, which is this most
recent calendar year of of college. And
those years were fundamentally the most
pivotal and important in my life
because
I think isolation either makes or breaks
you and your agency determines how that
goes. And I was finally after 6 years
able to crack the code and make it work
for me. But a lot of people aren't and
there's still there's always time for
people to grow. But yeah, with six years
of legitimate
I don't hang out with a single person in
months at a time. You know, I had there
were a few exceptions of times that I
would do something with a co-orker after
work, but it was more so
I wanted to be able to tell my parents
that I did it so they'd get a little bit
off my back. I didn't really like
necessarily my co-workers or connect
with them. But yeah, six I six years of
of deep deep I I did a seven-month time
span in my life where not a single
person texted me. 7 months outside of
work. I didn't get a single text
message. I don't know how many people
can say that. Not even my own family
texted me. So,
>> what did month four feel like?
>> You get almost numb to it. Like you were
saying before, it becomes addicting. I
didn't expect a text. And when you don't
have the expectations, you don't suffer
as much.
I was recently talking about this, but
in life, there's expectations in
reality. and the delta between those two
points, how great your expectations are,
just increases your suffering. So, you
want to mitigate the gap between those
two points and not have high
expectations because you won't be let
down and you'll find that life goes more
smoothly. That being said, to anyone
that just listened to me say that, that
is a slippery slope because if you just
lower your expectations, this sort of
dulls your ambition. It dulls your your
hope and your positivity about life. And
I'm widely regarded online as this sort
of doomer commentary person. But what's
really interesting is I truly believe
that positivity is the only workable
solution in life.
>> And I can tell you firsthand that you're
not going to get anything out of sitting
and moping around. Even when I was
making videos talking about these
things, I would go to bed every single
night with positive affirmations. I'd
wake up in the morning. I'm listening to
Kanye West. I was and I still am doing
everything to develop self-belief and to
be positive when I was doing these
videos. It's funny. I remember talking
to someone. I said, I don't know what it
is, but you know, I tried so many
businesses before social media and they
all failed miserably. I didn't go to
prom. I prom night I spent $3,000 on,
you know, a business venture, whatever,
and it completely blew up in my I lost
the $3,000. I thought it was going to be
like an epic It sounds so cringey. I
thought it was going to be epic. Oh, I
skipped prom and I did this when in
reality I had no friends or no one to go
with, so I wasn't going to go either
way. [laughter] But which sounds so
cringy. I can't believe I'm admitting
that. But yeah, blew up in my I didn't
make I lost $3,000. I'm like, "Hey, it
is what it is." All these things failed.
I don't know what it was, Jack, with
social media. I remember texting someone
and being like, "This is going to work.
I I don't even think it's going to work.
I know it's going to work because there
was one day I got two followers and I
thought that was crazy. I got two
followers in a day and I said, "Oh,
there's 0% chance I don't get to 100,000
because I'll just post enough videos and
just do this until it's impossible for
me not to hit 100,000." And like that's
what happened. It was because I believed
it. So positivity is the only workable
solution. So you got to be very very
careful. But to answer your question
about, you know, 4 months in, you no
longer have those expectations and you
realize that
this is another very popular saying
online, no one's coming to save you,
>> right?
>> So, I was sat down and it was very hard
for me to confront myself, but I said, I
I got to do something. I got to do
something because I'm sitting here
coping saying that I'm better than other
people or that I'm
more worthy or more talented than other
people, but I have nothing to show for
it. And
that was the point where I was like,
"Okay, there there needs to be some sort
of progress." And even after that, I
would just cope by success porn. I'm
gonna go online and I'm gonna watch a
Joe Rogan podcast where he's got on some
super ultra wealthy successful
individual and I'm going to listen to
that person. I'm going to relate to
them. Oh yeah, I'm I'm a really
hardworking person. And that's another
tough thing was I always was
hardworking. I was very good at school.
You know, I got a full ride to college
because I really try to dial in on my
grades. I would always do I I've always
been known by my family as someone who
does extremes. You might have heard it
be referenced to live life like a lion.
Lions are either, you know, 110%,
they're viciously
chasing, trying to get food or they're
very lazy, they don't really do much.
And that's how I was. I was with
everything I did. Once I started going
to the gym, when I turned 19, I went 218
days straight for a minimum of three
hours. I was going to a buffet every
night and I gained 65 pounds mostly a
muscle in the span of seven months or
something like that and I was very
extreme with it and that's how I would
do most things. And so let me ask you
this on the isolation. You said
you practically spent six years by
yourself, little to no contact with
friends, talked to your family
sometimes.
I know you said a lot of it was cope,
but what do you think is the one truth
that a man can only learn by himself?
You cannot develop your identity if you
as a man, if you don't spend
a substantial amount of time completely
alone.
99% of hometowns in America are going to
have, this sounds very negative, but
it's the cold hard truth, viciously
mediocre people that truly are not
striving for greatness. In my hometown,
I from a very young age, I would always
tell my parents, I really want to be
successful at something. I don't know
what it is, but I'm very ambitious about
being successful about something. And
people talk, they say the same thing.
Everyone says they want to be
successful. Everyone says they want to
do something, but man, I just was so
uninspired [snorts]
by the people that I grew up with, which
sounds so bad. I I don't think they're
less valuable as humans. I I'm not
saying that I'm intrinsically better
than these people, but I was not
inspired by them. I just I don't know
what it was. And if I would have
conformed or
even having friends in and of itself can
be cope, especially at that time in my
life, it would have been cope if I would
have stayed friends with them. I felt
like that would have been a lack of
self-respect. But
what happens is you are diminishing and
sometimes committing career suicide or
not career side but you're you're
destroying your potential by being
friends with these people. And when
you're forcing yourself into isolation
and it can't just be isolation from
people physically and socially. It needs
to be also online. You need to distance
yourself from the things you're seeing
online because the average person spends
more time scrolling than they do with
people. So that still dictates the
algorithm is dictating what you think
and your identity. So you need to
distance yourself from all of that in
extreme isolation is sort of the only
workable way that you can do that. At
least that I'm aware of. I would not be
sitting here having this conversation
with you right now if I did not spend
time in isolation. And I would not be
sitting here right now if I wasn't that
guy that people didn't like and was
essentially saying I was pretentious or
I thought I was better than everyone
else. These are things that I had to go
through to learn. And it would never
have happened had I just conformed and
been willing to go to school, get a
corporate job, be a slave for the rest
of my life, and just be viciously
mediocre and and let my potential go to
waste.
>> Right.
I think a lot about
there's a couple ideas here that are
really interesting. Like I had a guest
say on the podcast recently like free
will isn't real because other people
alter your behavior, you know? So it's
like if I say something and you reward
me for it, then I'll say more of that
thing. If I say something and you punish
me for it, I'll say less of that thing.
But it's only when you're by yourself
that you kind of have this free will and
you're not consuming anything because
the algorithm isn't dictating where your
mind goes. People aren't dictating the
behaviors that you take. But I feel like
you have to write, you know, like you
have to get your thoughts out there in
order to develop yourself. You can't
just sit in silence. Yeah.
>> You know, like what were the behaviors
you were doing that you thought were
productive in hindsight and you still
try to practice?
>> Yeah. So, and this is I'm glad you asked
that question because that's very true.
I was not doing nothing. I was trying to
be a sponge and soak in as much
information about life because for what
I lacked, I think there was there's some
sort of psychological aspect of it. But,
you know, I lacked the social
validation. I didn't have friends. I was
trying to cope with that. And what's
what's a good way for me to cope? Oh,
I'm going to become smarter than
everybody else. I'm going to become more
well-informed, better spoken, become a
better debater. and basically prove to
these people that I am that the reason
they rejected me was actually because
I'm better than them, not worse than
them.
But if you are in isolation, if
someone's listening to this, you have to
be productive with it. You can't go into
isolation and then go on your phone. You
can't go into isolation and watch a
streamer for 3 to four hours a day and
wish that or become entitled to that
certain life, become resentful. It's
bound to happen because all you're going
to see online is people that are better
than you. So, I was I was humbly pretty
productive with that period of time in
my life. What prayer did you say to God
when you were by yourself?
>> I said either take away my loneliness
or give me someone to be with. It was
one or the other. But I would, the
biggest thing was I just craved like
having a circle, a community, one
person, a girlfriend, anything. But I
would pray to God often. I would just
say just take away that feeling of
lonely, like my desire to to be around
people cuz that's what really hurt. It's
like I was saying before, the
expectations versus reality. I don't
know if expectations is the right word
in this context, but I truly had a
desire to
be well accepted by other people.
And when I didn't have it, it stung. And
I was like, okay, I'm cool being alone.
That's what that's what's weird. Being
alone is addicting.
But in any one given night, you're fine
being alone. But then those nights pile
up into months. Those months into years.
All of a sudden, I look back, it's been
four years, and I don't have a friend
group.
And I'm like, God, just take away the
desire to
be accepted or to be around other
people. And that was that was a very
difficult part of my life. And
eventually I matured out of it. But that
is truly how I felt. And that is what I
would pray to God.
>> How did God answer that?
God works in interesting ways. He
answered it, I think, in the best way
possible in retrospect. Now, that's
often how that works. But I had to grow
and develop as a person. I had to be
more sympathetic, more caring towards
others. I had to drop the I'm better
than you act. And that was only going to
happen if I had that time to
self-reflect.
But it also propelled me to
be the man that I'm becoming today. I
wouldn't say the man that I am because
I'm still far from where I want to go.
But when I was spending all that time
alone, I figured out what mattered. You
don't know the true value of water until
you're in the desert, not when you're in
the ocean. So having the absence of the
thing that I wanted
taught me the most about it. And now I
truly believe I understand the value of
friendship more than almost anyone I
know because
I didn't have it. I know what it's like
to
be around either fake people or no
people at all. I figured out what it's
like to be around genuine people that do
want you to succeed and are not going
against you. I've found individuals
who unfortunately right now living in
Nebraska, I don't live around anyone. I
just every once in a while I hang out
with my roommates. But after I move out
at the end of this month, I do have some
things lined up with some people that I
met online. And some people have
definitely had my best interest and
looked out for me. And
none of this would be possible. And I
would not be nearly as intuitive when it
comes to understanding, oh, is this
person my best interest or not? had I
not gone through that. So God didn't
just answer my prayer, he gave me a
blessing.
>> You talked about empathy. Do you think
Gen Z is the least empathetic
generation?
>> We're the most selectively empathetic. M
>> and what I mean by that is when there is
conflict that arises
the natural this is basic human
psychology the groups that you align
with form and there has to be a greater
support system within that group as a
sort of way to deal with the conflict
and what we're seeing on a large scale
especially in America you have a divide
and it could be men versus women whites
versus blacks liberals conservatives
whatever it is And people become
extremely empathetic and sympathetic
towards their people. But the second
empathy requires you to go beyond the
bounds. We're not. Which is why I think
you're asking, do you think that we're
the least empathetic? Because in that
sense, we are. But we're more empathetic
to our own people. CS Lewis has this
quote. I'm paraphrasing a little bit,
but I think he says something along the
lines of some people cast hatred onto
their neighbors and their family and
they thrust empathy towards the outward
circumference. And what he meant by that
is that often times what you'll see is,
you know, people are rude towards
family members or or people that they
live by because that doesn't really cost
them anything. If if I'm rude to and and
I've had this issue myself, but if I'm
rude to my dad, what's going to happen?
Is he going to disown me as a son? No.
If I'm rude to my neighbor, can they
move? No. And so, it's performative,
right? It's what they call performative
empathy. The outer circumference doesn't
require anything from you as a person. I
could sit here and tell you any random,
let's say there's purple people. I love
purple people, bro. I I think they're
the best. And I think that, you know,
this group of people, they've been so
oppressed and they've gone through so
much. And maybe maybe that's true. Maybe
they have. But what am I doing right now
to help the purple people? I'm doing
nothing because they don't live in my
city. I'm not actually engaging with
them on a daily basis. They don't see
who I am behind closed doors. So your
empathy is truly tested when there's
nothing to gain from it. And also
when it's somebody that doesn't that you
don't align with. I see this. There's a
talking point in the literature
community online where people are like,
you have to you have to read books
because books teach you how to have
empathy,
>> but the same people that are saying
this, all they do is read books that
reinforce whatever belief that they have
about anything.
>> Or maybe the author didn't design it
that way, but they're interpreting it
that way and they're like, "Wow, I I
have empathy because I felt bad for this
person that was born poor."
Let's try to have empathy for somebody
that's has a completely different
ideology as you. try to be a white
person and have empathy for the black
person that just got murdered. Try to be
a black person and have empathy for the
white person that just got murdered. It
doesn't happen anymore, right? And so
that's the true test of an individual's
character. And as time goes on, I think
that that is the the gap is widening and
it's getting worse. It's getting more
severe. The more conflict that we have,
the more people feel the need to just
really support their team to give
themselves the best shot. And once
again, this happens subconsciously. And
it's also has to do with identity. If I
identify with one thing, like I was
saying before, I can't deviate from the
line of thought that my community or the
people that also have the same identity
as me have because that's pretty much
psychological and group suicide. That's
an interesting idea that you can't be
empathetic for someone that you don't
see a bit of yourself in. Like if I said
to the average person, you're a little
like Donald Trump. Like I feel like they
would get offended by that. Yeah. you
know, and that's what allows them to not
have any empathy for them in the first
place. Uh, but in reality, everyone is a
little bit like Donald Trump, you know.
>> Yeah, [laughter] for sure. On algorithms
specifically, and I know you've kind of
broken this down, but how do algorithms
influence men's thoughts?
Algorithms are perhaps the most
dangerous threat to
our society right now. And the reason
they're so dangerous, kind of alluding
to the question,
>> I agree by the way,
>> is that
number one, it's so hard to diagnose or
to say this was the problem that led to
that when you see some random person
attack someone else in public. How are
you going to trace that back to the
cause of the algorithm made that person
angry for whatever reason and now
they're taking it out on that person?
You can't really do that. But number
two, how can the government or whoever
put regulations on algorithms? You
can't. You have the smartest engineers
in the world that are working on these
algorithms. The algorithms are quite
literally the most pro. It is the most
profitable
business concept that's being applied
ever. You could have a terrible product
and if you know how to work the
algorithm, you could sell a bunch.
But it's not about the products. It's
about the ideologies, the identities
that they're pitching. So when you ask
how does it affect young men? Well, it's
consuming
they're if this is your identity, slowly
but surely, the algorithm is gnawing
away and it's getting it's eating a
little bit more and more of you. And if
you don't, as I was saying before,
create and if all you do is consume,
there is no defense. You have no defense
against this. You have no ability to
critically think. So, oh, I'm a
young male who's trying to make it in
this world and I'm not making it. And a
lot of times that's going to be, you
know, self-inflicted. But Andrew Tate
told me X, Y, and Z. So now I'm going to
believe him. And now everything else,
like you were saying before, I'm going
to believe everything else that he said.
All of a sudden, we're slipping. And
this is a very slippery slope and it's
hard to come back from where everything
that you're doing is
been curated without you knowing it.
subconscious by your algorithm. When you
scroll across something a certain idea,
the first time you're like, I disagree
with that. Second time I disagree with
that. 30th time you still disagree with
it. But when you're scrolling four hours
a day every day, you're going to start
to see certain themes, narratives,
trends,
and your 200th time seeing something,
your brain has accepted it more. And
that's how they get you. And no one has
the agency or the cognitive ability to
recognize this in real time. So that one
time, every every one time that you see
the video, you're like, "This isn't
doing anything to me." But that's not
how our brains are designed. Our brains
are literally
biologically designed through evolution
to accept basically accept and recognize
certain patterns. And then if so many
people are reinforcing it and the people
that you believe are reinforcing it, all
of a sudden you
inherent that and then what's even
scarier and this is the real thing, it
just eats your identity. And everything
you do in life is done by proxy of your
identity. It's a byproduct of your
identity. And so if they can get your
identity, they can get you to buy all
these products,
associate yourself with a certain group.
In other words, your agency is gone
without you even realizing it. And it's
just so scary because how do I stop the
algorithm? How who can stop the
algorithm? It's who can directly explain
to me onetoone why it's the algorithm
that correlates with the unemployment
rate? It's almost impossible to sort of
backtrack that as I was saying before.
So, how do we come to a solution to
this? It's so metaphysical. It's so it's
there's nothing substantial about it's
it's in the air. It's just a thing that
exists. It's a concept. And so, how do
we stop something that's not physical
and it's just sort of this thing that
slowly eats away at our brains?
That's potentially the not the most
important question, but one of the most
important questions that needs to be
answered by us as a society as a whole
right now. If you had to guess
on how the algorithm is designed,
like
can you summarize one sentence its
objective on like everyone that engages
with it? like the short form algorithms
like uh what would you guess that
objective is
replace your time and thoughts
with what
with the thoughts that they want but
specifically because everyone gets
different thoughts it's going to be
I got to think of the right word to
Okay.
Thoughts that can evoke the most emotion
for you personally.
So,
think about business in terms of real
estate.
For millennia, businesses, let's say
from the start of America, you're trying
to expand. You're trying to conquer
different territories, do all that.
You're trying to have an online
presence. You're trying to have a
brickandmortar presence. you're you're
basically trying to like conquer all
these things, but slowly but surely
we're running out of capital that ex
there is a finite amount of capital and
a lot of companies have sort of hit that
block where okay, I don't have
much more places to go in terms of how
can I profit off of people. So now
they're coming for your time and
algorithms are the easiest way to come
for your time. That is the new real
estate is time. So if they can or or
attention depending I think that might
be a better word. They're coming for
your attention. They want you to be
focused on them. And every business is
doing this. It doesn't matter if it's
Meta themselves,
Tik Tok, whoever owns Tik Tok, YouTube.
>> And what would you suspect is the number
one way to capture the most amount of
time from someone?
>> Appeal to emotion.
>> Appeal to emotion. You wouldn't say it
would be transform their identity. Well,
appealing to their emotion is
transforming their identity. I just
think when I say appeal to their
emotion, if I show, for example, I'm
from Northern Chicago. I love Chicago
sports. I do not care about like
California sports teams. If you if some
something pops up on my feed and it
says, you know, the San Jose Sharks are
in X, Y, and Z and they just got this
way, I'm I'm never going to click on
that video. If if I'm swiping and that
video pops up, I'm just going to swipe
away. So, that's not appealing to my
emotion because I'm not emotionally
attached to the San Jose Sharks and I'm
not from that area. If I'm swiping and
all of a sudden there's something about
Chicago, I'm going to stay. Okay, now
apply that concept to literally every
venture or ideological position that
someone can hold.
It does that and then it will reinforce
that and then it shapes their identity.
But the way they do it is very clever.
Very clever because first they get you
by you're interested in something that
the algorithm never told you you're
interested in. Like for me, for example,
I love FC Barcelona. I never needed an
algorithm to to show me videos of Messi
or whatever. I just grew up liking them.
So this is the hook point. So they hook
you on something that didn't deviate you
from what you already thought, but all
of a sudden you your feed develops and
your feed is your identity. Most people
can't even have conversations about
things that aren't on their feed, right?
So they have a feed which is pretty much
their personality. The their identity
becomes a reflection. Their personality
becomes a reflection of their feed,
right? But it starts by, okay, I liked
this. all of a sudden you see something
that's a little bit new and you're
thinking to yourself, "Okay, that's new,
but it's not super far off from where I
just was, so I'm going to be interested
in that." And that's how it sort of the
hook starts to curve a little bit. And
all of a sudden, it deviates more and
more and more. And then it gets you to a
point where whoever the people that are
designing these algorithms, whatever
their ultimate goal is, which is to own
you. They want you to be a passive
slave. That's the entire they want to be
able to do whatever in the physical
world and have people distracted by
things that don't matter that are online
or politics or I'm not saying politics
don't matter but things that people
don't really
curate or utilize in a way to create
something in their life. They want you
passive so that they can just oppress
you more and that you're not going to do
anything about it. This is what Brave
New World by Aldis Huxley kind of the
core idea. Have you ever read that book?
>> The concept is,
>> you know, you have 1984, it's a future
of surveillance. Brave New World was
more future of control by pleasure.
>> So, you're going to you're not going to
care that the government is oppressing
you if they're feeding you. You're not
going to care the ways that they're
stopping you from doing what you want to
do in life. If you can scroll on your
phone, if you can buy things off Amazon,
if you can watch your favorite people
say bread and circus, which I think is
kind of cringey and oftentimes that's
the talking point from the dumbest
person, you know. So, I don't really
like to say that, but to some extent it
is true. They're bread and circusing
their way to have people not care about
what's actually going on and or how can
the mass populist revolt? how can they
form a union against what's going on or
or form an assembly and you know
actually push back? They're never going
to do it if number one we're so divided
which the algorithms clearly do but
number two we're just consumed by it to
where we don't even care enough. We're
only going to go on the streets people
only go on the streets to protest
because they want to feel morally
righteous half the time. You know what I
mean? Like I don't think they actually I
truly truly if you ask me I don't think
the majority of people that talk about
matters that are important actually care
about the matter itself as opposed to
the identity of being the person that
does that thing. I want to be the person
that goes that says I hate Trump because
guess what? If I go and then post a
picture on social media everyone's going
to think I'm a good person. I'm not
getting into politics. I don't care what
your political opinion is, but I do feel
like most people
fall into these different forms of it
doesn't just have to be politics. It
could be any it could be sports. It
could be drama, entertainment, but yeah,
I'm going to I'm going to fall into
that. And then nothing else matters in
life. And that's going to be the talking
point instead of when I go and hang out
with my friends tonight, instead of me
talking about how can I be more
ambitious about my goals, how can I set
some sort of thing in place to get
closer to where I want in life. Instead,
I'm going to talk about Love Island.
>> And this is attention is one of the
greatest currencies you have. Time,
attention, and so if they're they can
control you even when you're not on the
algorithms, then they've won. And that's
exactly what's happened because can you
have a conversation with someone about
something that wasn't on their algorithm
in the past month for the average
person? Unlikely. You know, there's a
little bit of nuance. There's some
people that can, but
they have stolen the identity. They've
replaced it with what they want and it's
just a typ. It's like the same concept
of a cult. So, the psychology of cults
is that they use what's called a
scapegoat method. So they tell you that,
you know, it's good versus evil and you
guys are fighting the aliens that are
going to come down to Earth or whatever
it is. And all of a sudden, this gives
your life so much purpose because they
just told you that that person's bad.
And guess what? I have nothing going on
in my life, I don't I need to cope with
that. So this is giving me my out. I can
say that because I hate Biden, because I
hate Trump, my life is meaningful. I'm a
good person. I actually amount to
something. I'm doing something. Well,
really, it's not. You're just sort of
coping and you're sitting here
completely
ignorant to the fact that you have just
your brain has just been stolen by an
algorithm that's designed by the same
people that you're criticizing. So
that's what I find so interesting. But
it's dangerous because once again, a lot
of this happens subconsciously and
people really don't care. And it's
amplified by the fact that people feel a
sense of I need to do something in my
life. And a lot of people aren't doing
something with their life. A lot of
people are working jobs that they don't
like. A lot of people their dayto-day is
very unfulfilling. They're not where
they want to be. And you need some way
to feel as though you're significant. So
boom, politics, easy out. It's kind of a
filler. It's kind of a, hey, there's a
void in my life. I need to somehow
create a substitute for this. And then
20 years goes by and you just became a
victim of the algorithm that made you
feel good about yourself because you
were too much of a this is going to
sound harsh, but you were too much of a
coward to confront your inability to do
what you wanted with your life. And by
the way, I think people can do have
potential. I think everyone has
potential to do something, but it's just
a matter of agency. Do you think it's
identity is something that you should
try to remove or do you from the
philosophy that you've read is identity
guaranteed in every person to be
important?
I think identity is guaranteed to be
important because so I almost relate
this to have you have you heard of the
the phrase ego death?
>> I think ego death is like one of the
dumbest things honestly. Uh I I it may
it doesn't make sense. I don't
understand how you can kill your ego cuz
your ego is what makes you live. Like
your ego is is that part inside of you
that's makes you do certain tasks that
have allowed humans to evolve. So you
can't just this concept of ego death. I
understand from a spiritual point. I
understand the point that they're trying
to make, but people to make it way too
literal. It's not literally ego death.
But
yeah, so your identity, you can't be an
NPC, a spiritualist individual. It just
I've never met someone that's like that.
There are some people that are less
conscious or less sentient for sure. I
think we all have anecdotal experience
of that. But your identity is you. You
cannot just kill you. So there is no
this person doesn't have an identity.
Now how do you shape your identity? This
is very important.
I'll speak to the way that I did it for
me and I'm still shaping my this is an
ongoing process. I think it will be
until the day that you die. You have to,
as I said before, create more than you
consume because consuming is things are
giving you your identity. This is going
to get me in trouble for what I'm about
to say here, but it's the truth. A lot
of new media, specifically TV shows,
like on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, is
100%
being designed to manipulate women. I
don't know if you've seen this, but
the shows that are coming out are so
genuinely so it's so easy to see the way
that they're trying to change these like
young girls perspective on life and how
attached that they get to these specific
things. There's a male equivalent to
this too, by the way, that's somewhat
attached to the sort of red pill, black
pill sphere. So, there's a male
equivalent, but if you have a more
extreme opinion, it's more likely to be
pushed. So, every opinion is extreme,
you know, at this point. That's
literally why Clav got so big is because
he took a concept that everyone knows
looks matter. He took it to the extreme.
He basically became the the female
version of a male where he all of a
sudden, am I wrong? [laughter] It's just
funny framing,
>> but yeah. So, he basically became like
took on the feminine where he's like,
"Oh, I'm thinking about getting the
surgeries and and like wearing makeup
and all this stuff." And so that's like
an extreme from the male perspective. So
that gets popular.
>> The same thing is going to be true for
women. If I post something that's like
super like all men suck, I'm going to
get a lot of views. If I say all men are
amazing, uh who is it? Savannah Stone.
Am I saying that right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like if you have her
mindset or her belief system that's also
very unpopular, very radical in the
modern day, that's going to go very
viral. So you don't really see the
people in the middle that
are more I don't want to say realistic
because just because something is
extreme doesn't mean it's necessarily
wrong but in a sort of easy to
comprehend way the more moderate
individuals that aren't strongly caring
about anything. You're not going to see
a video with someone
goes viral,
>> you know.
>> Yeah. Nothing nuanced goes viral. That
is Lord knows that's true. I find it
really interesting how much media I see
of people talking about like men are so
lonely, men are incelss, men are
watching porn all the time. And I'm
like, does that just make it worse?
Like, do you have any thoughts on this?
So, when your parents when you were
about to do the dishes and your parents
tell you to do the dishes, you no longer
want to do it. And it's almost like kind
of like a reverse psychology of that
where they're telling you don't do
something, now you want to do something.
M
>> and to answer your question, I do think
so. Mainly because of the concept of
rumination. So when you're constantly
thinking about something, especially
problems, things that you shouldn't be
doing, you're now more likely to commit
that pattern of behavior over time.
>> And if everyone is, it's definitely a
good sentiment. men should not be
watching porn. But when it's becomes
obsessive and everyone's constantly
talking about it,
it makes that
thought process more common and then men
more likely to commit to it. And the
same thing could be said about anything.
If you're saying, "Oh, men are so
lonely." And all of a sudden all the
talking points are always men lonely,
lonely, lonely, lonely. All of a sudden,
you're subconsciously taking in this
information and now
subtle changes in your behavior happen
without you realizing it. And that sort
of leans towards the things that you're
talking about. You are what you think
about. You are your thoughts. So if you
think that you're constantly lonely,
you're going to be lonely. I'm saying
this from personal experience. I know
probably better than anyone about that.
So you have to change that. And that's
exactly why I do I unironically listen
to positive affirmations, right? because
I know that my thoughts directly
materialize in the real world.
I think about that a lot too. Uh, one
thing I'll say on the ruminating
thoughts is that if you think every man
in America on average has one close
friend, then you're not going to aim too
high above that. You know, it's like,
oh, I have two. Like, that's good
enough. But it's like, maybe you need
six. Uh, and then on the positive
thoughts thing, like yeah, I I before I
did a podcast, I listened to a lot of
podcasts and like I'd listen to them
before bed sometimes and I'm like, damn,
I like got to be careful which ones I
listen to before bed because that one's
about to be programmed up into my
subconscious, you know?
>> Oh, 100%.
>> I personally found that Jordan Peterson
was one of the few people I could listen
to and like only have positive thoughts
after listening to that kind of content.
Is there someone that you like uh or
like what are the affirmations that you
listen to?
>> Alan Watts is fantastic.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> His voice too is just so it's so good.
It's so good if you're trying to fall
asleep and he has a great
understanding of
psychology but applied in the social
sense. I'm not even I'll just shuffle
through some of the top picks on
YouTube. You don't got to be too deep
about it. You just got to make sure it
truly is positive affirmations. I'm not
going to lie. and one of the biggest
Kanye West fans. I'm from Northern
Chicago.
Especially his early interviews when he
was on the comeup and he would just talk
about that one interview where he said,
"When you're a fan of Kanye West, you're
not a fan of me. You're a fan of
yourself." That perfectly explains it. I
would you need to listen to high
frequency
music. It's funny because I always
thought that, you know, the archetype of
those girls that are really into
crystals and vibrations and what I I was
a kid when I was younger that would make
fun of that and now I realize they're
they're so on the ball with it.
>> I don't necessarily agree in the same
way that they do, but what they're
talking about is so true where you are
operating from a frequency which is
dictated by your beliefs, which are
created by your thoughts. And if you
don't think positive, how could your
life ever turn out positive physically,
materially? It it cannot it simply
cannot happen. And so I've also
recognized this that the most positive
people, people that are delusionally
optimistic, the ones that are almost
annoying that you don't want to be
around because they're it's it almost
seems fake. Those people live great
lives. There's a guy I I don't know,
>> literally do. Yeah.
>> There's a guy I don't know what his name
is. He's good friends with HighUp
Wellness who's a friend of mine and he
does I I think his name is Jack Jack day
in the life or something and he does
those videos where he's dancing and he
goes on a run. He gets a lot of flack on
the internet. He gets a lot of hate.
That guy I can tell you lives a great
life because he actively forces himself
to be positive even when he doesn't
which is objectively better than even
being realistic if it's negative.
>> I've been on both sides of this. I I'm
I'd rather be the annoying guy that gets
all the hate on the internet, but then I
love my life and it seems like I don't
know the guy personally, but he seems
like he has amazing relationships and is
happy and that is a direct result of his
ability to, as Alex Ramosi said, stay in
a good mood in the absence of things to
be in a good mood about.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. the the frequency uh crystal thing
is really interesting because it's like
I I said the exact thing that you just
said just now last night to her. I was
like, I don't agree with the reason that
it works, but I believe that it works if
you want it to work. Because it's like,
>> you'll definitely know where this quote
is from, but it's like every human has a
natural urge to like make a god or like
worship some thing uh or just to have
things on their subconscious. And if
you're not planting them there, if
you're not like building your own
routines and behavior sets, then like
other things are going to fill them up.
So, it's it's all about choice. Like if
you look at every god throughout
history, it was just whatever this
person used to find
order within the chaos that was going on
in their life. You know what I mean? On
that, what one thing convinced you that
Christ is king?
As I said earlier in the way that people
process things, it's emotion cross
reference with anecdotal experience.
But for me it was I grew up in a
Christian household and I was when I was
a kid naturally if you grow up in a in a
religious household whatever religion
you tend to just fall into that and I
did but then I got very depressed
especially later on in my in in later
high school and after the isolation and
was going through a lot of stuff. I got
angry with God and I pretty much became
so negative that I was anti-natal. I was
like, I don't think you should bring a
human into this world. It's so dark.
>> How old were you?
>> I was 17, 18 at the time.
>> And you were antiatal.
>> I was antiatal at the time. I'm not that
anymore. I'm lit quite literally the
opposite of that now.
>> But it was because I was suffering and I
was like, it seems very cruel to put
another person through this. And
eventually I had to go through that
hardship. We kind of talked about it
before, but I grew a little bit. And
that's when I really found Christ was
after I destroyed my faith, stripped it
down, and then reestablished it by
myself without the influence of my
parents. I wasn't li I was living in
Arizona. My family was back in Chicago,
so I was nowhere near people. I got a
when I came back for the summer, I got a
an apartment that wasn't near my f. So,
I was really like out on my own and I
finally reestablished. But to answer
your question,
there's this quote by Dostoyki and I'm
paraphrasing here, but he's like, "If I
shall find truth to be outside of Christ
and not for Christ to be one and the
same with truth, I shall still choose
faith."
And I think faith is not an ends, but
it's a means. And it's a means by which
I live. And if I lived a 100 lives and
God wasn't real and Jesus wasn't real, I
would choose to believe in him every
single time because objectively I think
it makes the world a better place. But I
believe in him because when I had
nobody, when I had nothing, I started to
read scripture. I started to apply the
things that I was reading and I
literally felt the Holy Spirit. I felt
guidance from Christ. And that's I
understand that's not enough to convince
a random person. anecdotal evidence
hardly ever will. But for me, it was so
abundantly clear. It's just it's
obvious. It
the only way that you can truly, as SA
Kirkagard believed, find faith and for
your faith to be strong is if you take a
leap of faith. So logic can only get you
so far when it comes to faith. At some
point, things are simply unexplainable
and you have to jump into the void. That
is a mystery. That is uncertainty. that
is ultimately Christ. And that's
precisely why it is faith. Because if
you could logic your way to it, what
would be the point? Certainty is a great
enemy of unity. If I know for a fact
that God exists, I'm going to live my
life however I want and then I'm just
going to repent at the end there and I'm
going to be all good. But actually
knowing Christ, loving Christ the way
that he loves me,
that makes me want to be a better person
on a day-to-day basis.
And I've never felt that with anything
else. And that feeling is so
overwhelming that it almost crushes any
other conception that I have of the
world or doubt simply by
the faith and the power of it. I think
belief in God and Christ is particularly
interesting because
Jesus gives you an outlet to be
constantly self forgiving and get rid of
shame. Uh and then God gives you a
direction to align with the highest
possible good.
Do you think about shame a lot? Used to
not as much anymore for the reason that
we were talking about with thinking
positively cuz shame is people act like
shame is such a bad thing. I don't think
it is. Shame is a
almost like a stimuli that's telling you
to change your behavior.
And if it's used correctly, it can
definitely be for the betterment. I had
a lot of I still have shame by the way
that I treated people in my past. And
that is what steered me towards trying
to be more sympathetic of a person,
kinder.
That would have never happened without
shame. But you don't want to ruminate on
it for the same reason that you don't
want to ruminate or think about the
concept that oh more men are lonely
because that's just going to sort of
consume you on the inside and then you
just have this oh my gosh I'm like
terrible person and I can't do anything
right. We all fall short of the glory of
God. We all sin. Every single person has
the it's the human condition. You think
that what you're doing is so you you
could be like the nicest person in the
world and you think you're the worst
person in the world. That's just how it
goes. And it's a very bad
downward spiral when you let shame
consume you. My best advice would be
treat shame as a teacher. When your
teacher teaches you, you internalize it
and you accept it, but then you don't
just constantly think about it. You let
it change the way who you are, your
identity, and then you can walk
differently because of it. But you're
not like, "Oh, I remember when my one
teacher said this." You're like, "No,
you've internalized it. It's changed who
you are as a human." You were a travel
baseball kid
who secretly hated it the whole time.
>> Whole time. Yeah.
>> You said
you haven't really been happy since you
were 13.
>> True. Yeah.
>> What happened when you were 13?
>> 13 was the I think I just part of it was
I got more conscious. I became more
aware.
Um
13 was that age where I just you're kind
of starting to take things seriously.
And I know that sounds ridiculous.
Not not nearly to the extent or the
degree that I'm taking things seriously
now, but 13 was that was like right when
I went into high school. And that's
where my friendships were
dissipating.
I wasn't didn't have an outlet of fun in
my life or something that was giving me
joy. I really really did not like the
sport that I played and put so much time
and effort into. And
>> when did you quit baseball?
>> Uh, right before I turned 15, I quit
baseball.
>> And what did your dad say when you quit
baseball?
>> My parents were very encouraging of me.
They always have been. My
family understood. They knew I didn't
like it. I when I was really young, I
used to cry and beg not to go to the
games. And then as I got older, the only
reason like people might be listening to
this being like, "Why are you doing
something that you hate?" It's because I
put my identity in it. And literally all
of my friends, I'm talking like all of
my friends except for some of my
neighbors were kids that played
baseball. So, I was committing
psychological and social at the same
time as a 13-year-old kid. Didn't have
the balls to do it. When I was 14, I was
like, I mean, just how much I hate doing
this and wasting my time and part being
around people that I don't like is like
now greater that pain is greater than
having to put up with it. So, yeah, I'm
just going to cut it. But to answer your
question, both of my parents were
supportive of me.
>> You said your parents
sent you to a psychiatrist when you were
16 and you were diagnosed with
>> not not when I was 16. I don't actually
I don't know how old it was sometime in
high school. You were diagnosed with
depression, anxiety,
>> bipolar,
>> BBD, bipolar disorder, and OCD. Is that
right?
>> Not OCD, manic. Although, I do think I
definitely have had some really weird
OCD stuff. And people say OCD with like
the Oh, I like to organize my M&M's into
the same color. Like, no. I I would I
would do like really weird stuff. For
example, when I would go to brush my
teeth at night, I'd have to walk in the
door and out the door seven times, which
is cra like sounds crazy, but I
legitimately convinced myself that like
I would fail at school if I didn't do
that. I had I had a night routine that
took three hours and it was like doing
it was reading, brushing my teeth, and I
don't know what the other thing was, but
I was just insane about it. And
eventually, I don't know what happened.
And this is why I don't know if I don't
think it's actually OCD is I just like
conquered it. And I don't know if that's
I I don't I'm just ignorant to the I
don't know if you can beat OCD or how
that works. I don't know if I'm using
the right terminology, but that's why I
never I never got diagnosed as OCD, but
I was I am manic bipolar. Um and then
I've had depression on and off for
years. Of course, anxiety.
>> Did you ever take any medication?
>> They tried to get me to take medication
and I faked taking the medication, but
no, you were not going to catch me
taking medication, bro. 0% chance not
doing it. Why?
medication is
I think the pharmaceutical industry in
America is completely corrupt and I
don't I actually would say that's
objective because if you compare the
amount of chronic illnesses, mental
illnesses for our country and we
prescribe more medication than any other
country and we have so much more of all
those things. There's no way that works.
I'm not saying all medication is
fraudulent. Not at all. Some of it
objectively helps and some of it's
great. But I, this sounds cringy, but I
was just going to take my suffering raw,
go through life,
>> not care. I don't even I didn't even
like I don't even tell people really. I
recently
disclo I don't know when I talked about
that on my YouTube videos, but I never
really told anyone. Only my very very
close friends knew. And you know, even
my like when I say very close friends,
these are people that I would talk to
once every three, four months. So it
wasn't no one really knew. I didn't
really cuz honestly in my opinion to
anybody that might be going through
mental health issues, believe me when I
say I've been there. I I know how it is
and I respect everything that you're
going through. But for me personally, I
felt like medication was cope and that I
had to go through the struggle and that
like 100% now looking back that was
objectively the right decision. It
changed everything in my life. Like my
career, I'm chasing my dream. I'm living
my dream now. I'm doing everything that
I want to do. Not possible had I taken
those. I knew some people that they
would call it like zombie drugs. They
would go to mental mental hospital and
they would take these drugs and they
described being so numb that it was
their life was almost the absence of
feeling or anything and that's why they
called it the zombie drug. And I knew
that before I ever got diagnosed with
anything and so
that was enough for me to be like, "No,
I'm not going to do it."
>> You talked about yearbooks before on a
video. Would you ever let your kids take
school photos?
>> Yeah, I did make a video about a
conspiracy theory and dude, when I made
that video, I was not thinking that that
video was going to blow up. Um,
for context, I made a video basically
saying that school yearbooks, they hire
these third party people that come in
and take pictures, and those third
parties are owned by two very big
corporations.
and
it didn't really go over well. One of
the corporations, I can't talk that much
about it, unfortunately, but
it didn't go over well. Anyways, to
answer your question, I would let my
kids go to school and get their pictures
taken by third party vendors because I
don't really think they're
>> Instead of that, then what's a
conspiracy theory you 100% know is real?
>> I'll give you two. One of them is the
dead internet theory is real. It
recently just crossed the 50% of all
actions online are now made by bot
accounts. Now, this is kind of a
misleading statistic because that
doesn't mean that 50% of the videos that
you're seeing are AI or some bot ran
account. One video that can get millions
of views is the same as one comment that
gets no likes. So, if a video gets 5,000
comments, maybe half of those are going
to be bots. And so, that's kind of how
it is. But the trajectory is it's
obviously going to get worse. Everyone
knows it with AI. So, dead internet
theory is definitely real. And the other
thing is that every I believe that every
conspiracy theory ultimately adds up to
the to the giant conspiracy theory,
which I know to be true, which is that
we are in a spiritual war of good versus
evil.
And it's Christ versus Satan. And the
thing is, I know how the story ends. You
know how the story ends. Christ wins in
the end. But until then, it is going to
be unfortunately a lot of suffering and
it is a uphill battle. But I think all
the conspiracies that people talk about
where oh the elites are doing this or
aliens are that all of it that's bad is
just a part of Satan's plan to divide us
to
cause more violence to create more
conflict
and that's the good versus evil. I think
>> what makes you so certain that that's
what's happening that that's the grand
conspiracy.
>> We all intuitively know that there's a
spiritual war going on. You can feel it.
You can sense that. I know that's not
very there's not a lot of substance to
that, but there's no other way that I
can describe it.
After the Epstein files dropped and
people recognize that at least that was
true,
you have to ask yourself this question.
Is there anything that's then off the
table? Is like literally is there
anything that is off the table that you
think is too far-fetched? I I think the
answer to that question is no. I don't
think that there's anything to
specifically in the evil aspect of is
there some harm that humans would not be
willing to do to other humans. I think
the answer to that question is no. But
we all feel the tension rising and it's
a byproduct of all these different
events that are going on in the world
and the overall narrative progressively
getting more tense
and
the different conspiracy theories are
fuel to that fire. What kind of people
are allowed to be evil without
consequences?
>> That's a good question.
The thing about
the world is that the world respects
strength, not morality. So if you're a
good person, it doesn't matter.
The laws of nature, the way the world
works is it respects strength. So from a
standpoint not of what I believe should
be the case, but what is the case, the
people that are allowed to be evil and
get with no consequence are the
strongest people. The ones that have
access to the most resources, the ones
that have the most influence and
ultimately the ones that can pull the
strings specifically without being seen
in the public eye. Mchaveli talks about
this where he says, you know, a good
ruler never is hated. and he idolized
this one ruler who, long story short,
conquered a certain area in Italy, and
he needed to have like a second his
right-hand man go to this one area to
basically delegate him to do all the
tasks. And he wanted him to do all these
evil things to the to the people. And
because of that, all of the town's
people in that area hated that guy. They
hated that ruler. I'm forgetting what
his name is, but the main guy, his name
is Borsha. And what he ended up doing
was he would tell his right-hand man,
"Hey, I want you to do XYZ thing." And
all the people thought that it was his
right-hand man that was executing it.
But really, it was Borsha's idea the
entire time. Now, in the end, he ends up
cutting that guy in half, throwing him
on stakes, putting him in the town
square for everyone to see. And all of a
sudden, they're like, "Oh, Borsha is the
hero. He's the He's the best guy in the
world." Whole time, he was the one that
was causing everything. So perception
matters a lot and you need to cover the
perception and that's why if anyone is
truly
in the public eye to any extent they are
in some way going to face consequences
if they're doing something like truly
truly evil they'll be exposed if they're
in the public eye. The ones that are
getting away with it me and you we don't
know their names.
you'd said something along the lines of
uh people don't care if you're evil if
you say that you're evil.
>> Do you remember that
>> preemptive self-disclosure?
>> Tell me about that.
>> So if you and this is more so on a on a
smaller scale of like me and you were
just we meet each other out or whatever
but
there is a perpetual need for humans. I
don't know if it's a coping mechanism. I
don't know what it is but they want to
feel superior. And an easy, really easy
way in the modern day that people do
that is by
saying
or pointing the finger at someone and
saying you're evil. Specifically with
anything based on morals, politics,
morals, that stuff. So if you're evil,
but admit that you're evil, people
weirdly let it slide because it's
preemptive self-disclosure. You're
beating them to the punch. You're
effectively hijacking the insult from
them. they can no longer
hold that above you because you're like
you're calling me evil, bro. Yeah, I
know I am evil now. Like what are you
going to say? you're just going to keep
bug like I've acknowledged it and so
you're neutralizing the shame that's
involved and it's a gen it's a genius
move if and this is when it gets scary
but like let's say Trump decided to
do something crazy but instead of taking
the oh I'm doing this for the betterment
of the people standpoint he just
straight up says yeah I don't my my
intention here is to be evil for xyz
reason and that's my whole intention
People
would still hate on him. Don't get me
wrong. Of course they would. But it's
weird. They would not resent them him as
much as before because people really
hate someone who fakes, who's
performatively good, who tries to take
that high ground in life or act like
they're better. When you just expose
yourself for who you are, it's like
really, bro, you you just you said that
I'm ugly. It's like, yeah, I've called
myself ugly. I'm the butt of the joke.
You know what I mean? Whatever it is. I
think Nick Fuentes and Clavvicular in
particular have utilized this tactic to
become very successful. Yeah. It's just
like
>> I am ex identity. Sure. And then people
are like, "Oh, that's cool." Or like I
only care about looks. Okay, cool. Like
we we know what it is and now we can
enjoy it and now it's okay to enjoy it.
Yes. Exactly. I want to ask you, what do
you think happens to a man when he
focuses only on his appearance?
Well, that's an interesting question
because the Greeks viewed beauty as
virtuous, but not in the way that we're
seeing the looks maxing movement today.
The looks maxing movement today is
objectively full of vanity. And the
reason that I say that is because oftent
times vanity starts with something that
does have substance on the surface.
Looks objectively matter.
We all have experienced this in our
life. If you're good-looking, if you're
not, you have experienced pretty
privilege or you've been on the worst
end of it. And so it Clav's movement
comes from a place of truth, but then he
just took it to the extreme where
virtue needs to be you need to have
different virtues in life and they need
to someway balance themselves out
because if you have one that's too
strong, it's kind of like Icorus where
you're just really ambitious about that
one thing and that could lead to your
downfall. And so
to answer your question, it becomes
inherently empty. You are so obsessed
with your looks that you're
not even caring about your looks for the
sake of what they get you, but you're
caring about your looks for the sake of
the looks themselves. Cuz it's hard for
your brain to distinguish the
difference.
And what happens when inevitably you
age? When inevitably something happens
and you don't look as good as you used
to, like every human does, you're going
to slip into a depressive state, you are
basing
your psychological well-being on your
ability to
mog.
>> And do you think mogging is a noble
pursuit? [sighs]
>> To a degree. We all try to look better.
Everyone does, myself included. And
there I think working out, getting in
shape, just trying to lean down, trying
to just take care of yourself, groom
yourself, stuff like that, all of that.
I think there's virtue to that to that,
excuse me.
But when you are doing it for the ends
purely of I just want to look good only
for the sake of looking good and not for
the character development of the person
that would look good. That is the real
issue because it's there's not a real
substance behind it and it's
inevitably vanity at that point.
>> What's one book every young man right
now should read?
>> Sickness Unto Death by Sauron Kagard.
The single most pivotal book I've ever
read in my entire life. Last question
here. Uh
Jet, what's the best piece of advice
you've ever received?
pick up the cross and follow Jesus
changed my entire life. But I'll give
you a non-religious answer too.
>> Everything in life regresses to the
mean. And the mean is your identity. You
build your identity by taking so much
action that it creates a profound amount
of evidence and proof
which completely destroys any self-doubt
beyond reason.
So you materialize your life by
controlling your thoughts and how you
believe and by proxy to actions that you
take.
>> And then what's the most shitty piece of
advice you've ever received?
>> If you do hard honest work
but just follow the system that you will
be happy and fulfilled. And why isn't
that true? It's not true because if you
you can do art hard honest work and find
happiness and find fulfillment but it
has to be with something that you truly
believe in if you follow the system.
Often times you're not doing something
that you believe in. And so this sort of
falls into later on same thing with
looks maxing vanity where you're like
I'm only doing this to pay the bills.
So, you have to be strategic about what
you're pursuing and have a genuine
curiosity and desire to improve upon
that on a consistent basis because
otherwise you you'll look back on your
deathbed and be like, I chase something
that I didn't want to do. But just
because I was hardworking and honest, I
thought that it was supposed to amount
to something. That's not how the world
works. Well, everyone, uh, this has been
your guest, Jet Branson. This is the
Jacko podcast. I appreciate you coming
on, brother. Thank you.
>> Yeah.