I have been running like hell for a long
time and the world is catching up with
me. They're all going to be running like
hell too, believe me.
>> Do you think the possibility of this
planet being like some type of cosmic
prison is at all real?
>> That is something I never can't quite
put out my mind.
Some parts of this are really
extraordinary and exciting, but other
parts of it are going to be hard to deal
with. We will discover that slowly over
time.
>> Do you think that the NHI has the
potential to like kill you over this or?
>> Oh, I think it's worse than that.
>> Worse than that?
>> Oh, yeah. I think killing is only an
incident.
They're they're tempting us farther and
farther. But but but at the same time,
there are predators who sort of work
like that, [music]
who move very very slowly until suddenly
everything changes and the mouse ends up
in the jaws of the snake.
Always cut the cards when you're not
sure who you're playing poker with. And
I'm not sure who we're playing poker
with.
In 1990, when I was almost 10 years old,
my mom was driving back home from a late
night grocery trip back to my grandma's
house where we all live together. And
when we turned onto the street we lived
on at the beginning of the block, there
was a round saucer spinning [music]
many different colors, very bright.
About 100 ft above the church on the
corner. And all this sudden, we all were
sitting at my grandma's table like paper
grocery bags placed on the table. and my
grandma walked into the kitchen and
[music] said, "What's wrong? Why aren't
the groceries put away?" Suddenly, we
realized we didn't remember the last 55
minutes. And we all [music] just seemed
like, you know, confused. And we were
crying and my brother said a very
colorful round UFO was spinning around
and [music] they don't remember anything
until now. And then my grandma said, "Oh
my god." Next thing you know, she went
to the picture drawer, an old picture
drawer, and pulled out a paper that, you
know, had a scrawling of a metal table
with a female laying on it and a couple
grays around her. And she said, "Did you
see any of these beings?"
>> Whitley Streber, welcome back.
>> It's good to be back.
>> Well, it's good to have you back, sir.
I'm glad that you were able to make the
trip out and I know that we'll also be
seeing each other actually quite
frequently in the next few months. We
got contact in the desert,
>> right,
>> you'll be at. But then also, uh I'll be
featuring you alongside myself and some
other guests on the It's Probably
nothing tour,
>> right?
>> As we stop off in San Francisco.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh we'll be there as well. So, you won't
be seeing the last of me today.
>> Yeah. And I'm going to be at the uh the
Lilyale Assembly on July the 11th.
That's the Assembly of the Spiritualist
Church of America up near uh Lake Erie
in uh upstate New York, which is a
charming place. I love it. And I'll be
there just with the panel with Travis
Walton. And in the fall, I'm going to be
doing a course on uh on uh the abduction
experience and how to kind of how to how
to live with this
>> for Ubiquity University.
And I'm going to be at the uh in West V
not West Virginia in Virginia Beach at
the Edgar Casease Institute. So I'm
going to be doing a lot too.
>> Very busy man.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, that's good. Busy is good. Idle
hands are the devil's play toy, they
say.
>> I have to remember that.
>> Um yeah, it's really good to have you
back. And you know, last time we had
this conversation, obviously a great
reaction from the audience. They were
very compelled by not only your stories
but like the book you put out at the
time which was a fourth mind and
>> right
>> you know because of its relationship to
the I'd made a video about this but the
molecular biologist
>> right
>> that had sort of dissected one of these
beings and how that really coincided
quite neatly with your experience of the
the physicality of the beings.
It's that's right. And it it was um you
know, I've had numerous biologists look
at this at this point and it's a mixed
bag in terms of some of them say no, he
he didn't he couldn't have been
describing this correctly because it's
not this is not what I understand of
biology. Others have said this is
possible. And so uh but I think he
probably was doing his best to remember
something he actually did work on. Uh
and I have not been able to contact him
for obvious reasons. I mean we all know
that they are very actively engaged on
the inside in
getting after people who break the sec
their security agreements. It's a
serious business. So, I can understand
why he, you know, he hasn't shown up in
my life.
>> The only followup that I had to that was
I had uh someone call me on this 1-800
number that we have that we feature at
the beginning of the episodes. And
because this gentleman had mentioned, I
think Battel
>> Battel in Memorial Institute
>> exactly was was where they were housing
these, you know, biological experiments
that they were doing and these
autopsies. And so someone reached out
and said, "I'm a scientist, a molecular
biologist that worked at Battel for a
small period of time during my training
for the Navy." And he said that
at one point we were joking with each
other because we had to sign NDAs and
this and that and we were joking with
each other among the other scientists
about, oh, what if we see aliens?
And he said we made a pact that day that
if ever we did end up working with
anything nonhuman
that we would send a text to each other
and say sorry wrong number.
And so fast forward I think two or three
years down the line they had not
communicated after that. There was no
communication actively between these
people because you know they get posted
to different areas and different jobs.
And sure enough, he received a text out
of the blue by one of these people that
said,
"Yeah, that told him, uh, yeah, sorry,
wrong number."
>> Now, here's a question. I wonder why he
they even thought about this at the
beginning when they were together. What
was it at Battel that made them even
think about that? Because normally it's
not something you would just think
about. Yeah. They probably had to have
heard some type of water cooler rumor.
>> Exactly. Exactly.
>> And uh you know, Dr. Robert Sarbacher,
the metallurgist who died,
oddly enough, the day I sent him, the
first written material that became the
book Communion went to Dr. Sauerbacher
after we had a conversation on the
phone. He died that same day,
apparently. Uh, and I never got the
material back, but he told me that he
worked at Battel. And I think that's
even in his Wikip may if his Wikipedia
entry is still accurate, which is an
open question nowadays.
>> Uh, I think it still may be in his
Wikipedia entry. So you you you got
biology, you got metallurgy. We need to
go to Battel.
>> We need to see what's going on there.
>> Yeah. Battel, MITER, all of these
corporations seem to be the key to
>> to to this because well, you know,
Battel has stated publicly that they
have not done any of this.
>> Sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. As one does when you are
>> Exactly.
>> doing these things,
>> right? Exactly. Exactly.
>> Yeah. You don't you don't publicly state
that you are doing them uh for obvious
reasons. But so what do you make of
this? Because right now we're getting
into what seems to be this transition,
this shift into this new paradigm where
>> you know obviously there are a lot of
people who are going to be on a little
frustrated or reluctant in acknowledging
some of the disclosure efforts that have
been put forth by the United States
government due to fuzzy imagery and sort
of the lack of historic transparency.
But what do you make of this movement
that seems to be hitting the mainstream?
Uh, you know, that seems to be really
moving the needle in terms of at least
at the very least people's interest and
curiosity
versus what happened to you back in 1985
and where we are now. How does that
affect you? How do you see the world
right now?
I have been running like hell for a long
time and the world is catching up with
me. They're all going to be running like
hell too, believe me. Um because you
know this this some parts of this are
uh
really extraordinary and exciting, but
other parts of it are going to be hard
to deal with. Really hard to deal with.
And we will discover that slowly over
time, I think. Although there's always
the possibility that it could just come
bursting into our lives without warning.
And that's the part that worries me the
most because
when I look at the the whole spectrum of
the close encounter experience, most of
the cases people just sort of it came
into their lives unexpectedly. a few
cases they've sort of been consciously
aware of this since they were kids, but
mostly it starts very abruptly when I
call it the moment of activation when
they see a UFO and the next thing they
know they're in it or they they have
missing time and they become totally
obsessed with this and uh you know
Richard Drifus character in uh uh
>> Close Encounters.
>> Close Yeah, Close Encounters. He
Spielberg got that. He got that total
obsession that happens when you come up
against an anomaly like this. You can't
get you can't let it go. And people
don't let it go. They can't. And
eventually it's going to turn out the
entire world's not going to be letting
able to let it go. And with right now
there's something like 700 million views
of uh the new government's uh disclosure
website and most of the stuff on it is
pretty old hat so far.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree.
>> You're right. Uh but look at the number
of views, the immense level of interest.
It's extraordinary.
>> Yeah. if that doesn't at least
you know inspire or motivate some of the
government to move even faster other
world governments you know now we're
seeing Japan come into the conversation
as well recently and
>> possibly yeah
>> yeah I feel like that's the healthiest
course of action because so many of the
criticism with the United States
government is that why do they only land
in the US why is it only in the US which
we know it isn't right
>> but it would also be nice to have these
other countries start opening up their
sort of classified files uh to this
topic as well.
>> Well, there are certain countries that
have more than others. Uh in South
America, Brazil undoubtedly has a great
deal more than most countries. And
that's important to open up because
that's a really challenging experience
down there. France I know does and at
least I'm sure pretty sure it does that
they've been collecting this information
for years and it's sort of edges up to
the surface every once in a while. Uh
and Italy probably does as well.
>> I don't know about the UK.
I know the they must have they've had
some extraordinary cases there and
undoubtedly they have some some amazing
files. But I but they're very very quiet
about this.
>> Yeah, they declassified a whole bunch in
uh 20 was it 2017 I believe.
>> It was Yeah, but it wasn't much there
wasn't much to what they declassified.
>> No, it was sightings, right?
>> That type of thing. But again, like a
lot of the stuff that we're seeing now,
we're seeing a lack of
acknowledgment on what this stuff is.
They're kind of just putting it out
there and being like, "We're not
responsible for whatever you think it
is,
>> right?"
>> And that seems like a cowardice
>> type of approach to it when you're like,
"Hey, just get behind this thing." You
know, you're saying UAP, you know, why
not? Let's talk about the other stuff,
too. Let's talk about the elephants in
the room. Let's talk about the Roswells,
the the Cexsburg, you know,
>> and the and and also what what has been
what kind of conclusions
because the there must have been and
must [clears throat] still be a great
deal of work being done on this. I know
that there uh General Art Exon who was
involved in this. He was later he was
commandant of uh right Pat and in 47
according to what he told me he was
directly involved in the
what happened when the debris and the
bodies were brought to right field. It
was as it was called then.
>> Yeah.
>> Under General Twining. he was in the air
air material command or worked in this
and they could have easily pulled in uh
officers from other parts of the of the
command at the time because I'm sure
that air material wasn't all that big
and all of a sudden they had this major
thing. So in any case, uh
he told me in 1988 when I talked to him
that they had a lot of pencils up
meetings and that meant that he would go
down he was still even in retirement
going down to right Pat from where his
where he was to fill in the scientific
group that was still working on this
with what they had discussed in these
meetings.
>> Wow. Now, that means that there's a lot
that we'll never know because it was
hidden by not being recorded. But the
other problem is this. Uh, a lot of the
records that were recorded, I think,
have been offloaded into the private
sector. And I can be fairly specific
about that. Back in the early 90s when I
was living in upstate, well, it's
downstate New York New York to most New
Yorkers, but about 90 miles north of
Manhattan. Um, the town of Woodstock,
people began to complain that there were
trucks going to the EG&G Roton facility
in Woodstock,
uh, waking, keeping them awake all
night. And apparently
there were documents being moved in
large quantities to that facility from
goodness knows where. But wherever they
were coming from I would guess were
government facilities. EG&G Roton is a
private facility and every document that
went in there moved out of the freedom
of information
umbrella and was no longer accessible.
And I think that that in order if we are
ever going to find the any really
substantive material about this, we got
to get it from the private sector.
>> Yeah, it's a tricky a tricky line to
walk.
>> Well, it Congress can do it. I mean,
there can be legislation to do this.
There can be, but the what that what
that also entails is a violation of,
you know, people's personal
um intellectual property. And so, you
know, you can't you can't have one
without the other. If you say that the
government is allowed to go into private
corporations and take what they deem to
be exotic material, you know, where is
that line? Who decides where that line
ends? And now suddenly, you know, uh,
some inventor is out there inventing
something completely on his own, but
they deem it to be exotic and take it
away from him. Not saying that I'm
totally against or for anything, but it
does open a interesting can of worms.
>> Can of worms. Sorry. However, I will say
this, I know inventors whose inventions
have been taken that way. So, that does
happen. Definitely happens.
>> What's one case that you can remember?
>> Uh, well, uh, yeah. Okay. I'm it's a
little
dicey because it's
there's a case of um a communications
system that I someone I knew
invented and his invention was
classified. It wasn't taken from him in
the sense of they didn't say, "Well,
we're taking your invention and we're
making it ourselves and you're not
getting any money." He's still getting
money from it, but but it's classified
and he can't he he can't do anything
talk about it anymore. It's an exotic
communication system.
>> What does it do? Do you know?
>> Yes, I do. [laughter]
>> I'm guessing you don't want to share
that.
>> I Well, uh let's put it this way. It's a
really exotic and it uh it involves
instantaneous communications.
>> Whoa. And it's it's not uh quantum
uh uh quantum communications. It's
something else. And it's something that
I don't think anybody is really very
aware of. And he's a wonderful sweet
guy. And you wouldn't think he would
ever be able to invent anything, but
he's really brilliant on under the
surface.
>> Well, that's really interesting.
>> Yeah. Well, maybe there'll come a day
where he'll be on the show and others
like him. I know a lot of people who
are, you know, kind of half in the
shadows and half out and would like to
be all the way out of the shadows for
sure.
>> Do you have a lot of people come to you?
I I'm sure you do, but do you have a lot
of people come to you from a sort of
military industrial complex background
or a private sort of government
contracting or intelligence community
background that comes to you with
information that we have that you just
can't, you know, verify? that that's
pretty pretty intense
>> sometimes. I wouldn't say that happens
to me every day and I not really don't
really encourage it because the last
thing I want to do is getting involved
in situations where I know classified
material. Not because it's illegal for
me to know that. I mean, if I if it
falls into my hands, it's perfectly
legal for me to you know, it's it's not
there's no nothing I no there's no law
against it. If it falls into your hands,
you have to steal it. That and I don't
do that. I don't come close to that. But
I don't like to know those things,
especially if I'm not sure where they
stand,
>> which is often the case. I, you know,
I'm not sure where given things stands,
I don't know for sure whether or not
it's classified or there are things that
the visitors, NHI, want to keep secret,
too. And I've found out the hard way
that, you know, they're they can get
just as pissed off as the government if
you you spill their secrets.
>> Yeah. You mentioned that to me on the
car ride here that there was an incident
that you
um you deemed was because of
something that you let slip that you
shouldn't have.
>> That's right.
>> That
that they didn't want you to share. They
being the visitors.
>> That's correct. only there's a
difference
with the government. You know when
you're stepping over the line because
you presumably have s signed a
non-disclosure agreement or you have a
security clearance or something with
them. They assume, you know, you're
supposed to keep it a secret and then if
you don't, they get pissed off. Really
pissed off. And that happened to me. And
um so, you know, you know, they're not
going to ask you to sign any any kind of
a security agreements, but if they if
you say something or do something that
they don't that they that revealed
something that they don't want revealed,
then they think, well, he's stupid. He
was inattentive. and and you know the
sky is the limit as far as scaring the
hell out of you goes at that point.
>> Do they stop at that?
>> Yeah, they did in my case or I wouldn't
be here anymore.
>> Do you don't think that uh do you think
that the NHI has the potential to like
kill you over this or
>> Oh, I think it's worse than
>> worse than that.
>> Oh, yeah. I think killing is only an
incident in in what could happen. uh I
think that they have
uh fully expressed whether it's
technology or not I don't know in at
least in the way we think of it of that
enables them to control the the
conditions of the soul and it is real
the soul is real and one of the great
problems we have and one of our greatest
weaknesses is most of our best minds s
dismiss that as absolute nonsense when
it is in fact as far as NHI is concerned
the central issue. It's what they're
they care the most about. It's why
they're here and it is not a
supernatural thing. It is a part of
nature that we don't yet understand and
can't yet detect. But it's just as real
as radio was in 1850, which we didn't
understand there and couldn't detect,
but it was still there. The soul is the
same.
It's not I'm not saying the soul has
anything to do with radio, but it's an
energy that we cannot detect yet. And
part of the reason is I think it's
conscious energy and it's going to be
detectable when it wants to be.
>> Do you think it's some type of fuel?
>> What? expand on that a little bit.
>> Do you think that because there is
clearly a value for them, I
>> if you look at all of the visitations
and you try and piece together whatever
we can with our meager little minds
here,
>> uh, you get to the bottom very fast and
you go, it's not resources like we know
them. It's not gold and and and platinum
or oil. Uh, it isn't territory. It's not
water. There's plenty of that out there.
there's just freely floating around in
space even you wouldn't even have to
fight us for it like so when you get
down to it it it doesn't leave you with
many options and one of those options
that a lot of people get to and that you
know if you look at the case of Bob
Lazar he had those haunting words where
they call us containers and then
containers of what
>> yeah well that's what it's all about is
what the containers contain
>> so what do they do with our souls in in
your opinion
>> uh
>> why do they want to contain them or why
do they even care that are being
contained or why are they containing
them?
>> Well, let me I think the best way to do
to talk about this is there's
first to say this. I have been told that
if I were to
violate certain
do certain things they don't like. And
I'll be specific.
One time and I wasn't even thinking
about this. I suddenly found myself in
contact with them in in a very tangible
way. And the message was you must not
commit suicide. If you do that, we will
capture your soul and confine it
forever.
Forever.
It was the scariest thing I ever heard
in my life. And then they proceeded to
demonstrate this by removing me from my
body. And I ended up in this little
white container that I could not get out
of in in the non-physical. The only way
out was to go back into my body. And the
thing that was weird was I wasn't even
thinking about committing suicide. It's
not something that's on my agenda ever.
You know, maybe it has been when I was a
teenager and got jilted by a girl, but I
mean, let's face it, fortunately, I'm I
didn't take it that seriously. Uh, and
uh, there have been times, you know,
when I was losing all my money in my
home and everything, I felt like, you
know, maybe Ann would be better off with
the insurance money, but I never thought
of it deeply. And so, but that that was
an example of what they can do, you
know? I mean, presumably they could do
that. They could confine a soul forever.
And I think to myself, shouldn't more
people understand this? Because if you
live some something in your life
makes them want to do that after you've
died and they don't warn you beforehand,
my God, what are we really doing here?
You know, how do we how do you live it?
it what it did to me was I made looked
at my moral life in a whole new way
because I thought this isn't
theoretical. It's tangible and what do I
have to do? And I I really can't answer
that question because I think living a
good moral life
will help you not end up in that
situation. But I can't prove that. It
could be that that's not what it's
about. Do you think the possibility of
this planet being like some type of
cosmic prison is at all real? That is
something I never can quite put out of
my mind. Is it a cosmic prison or is it
a cosmic school or is it both? And it,
you know, I've been told both. I had an
absolutely that's I've gotten more I
wrote a book years ago called
transformation and the new version of it
which is just out uh transformation 2026
talks about an event that happened in
those days that I now understand very
deeply at the time you know I I could
describe it but I couldn't I didn't know
what it was about and it involved
uh
a journey to a university on another
world.
Now, was it a physical journey? No, it
couldn't have been cuz you know I'm but
it it was either a journey journey up
here or some kind of out of body journey
or something. But it was very vivid and
very detailed. I got a really detailed,
you know, I might as well have gone
physically because of the vivid the
detail with which I remember it.
But in this university, I was told that
that I could enter it and that it was a
place that was a school. It was a
university, a school. And and it was
very tumbled down. And I said to the
little guy that was saying to me, "Yeah,
you can go in because there was a door,
an arched doorway not far from where we
were, uh he I said, "It looks like a
total wreck." And he said, "Well, this
it's been a million years old and the
scholars are no good at maintenance."
And uh so I went toward it and suddenly
two bigger beings, I didn't know of
grays. This happened in the 70s. I don't
know what they were, but these two big
beings with big black eyes prevented me
from going in and I was extremely
disappointed.
But I actually had entered the
university.
The university is this life. So it's
this is a school on one hand, but I
think it might turn into a prison in the
sense that if you die and you've screwed
your up your journey and you don't
aren't able to ascend, you aren't able
to graduate, you got to do it again and
again and again and again and maybe
eventually someone maybe you eventually
you could fail completely and then you
never leave. I don't know. But that's
failing completely doesn't interest me.
I'm really interested in
>> succeeding.
>> Yeah, I want to live a moral life and
that's the only thing I can say. I I
don't know. May, as I said earlier,
maybe that's not relevant. But it's all
I have to, you know, to to to to work
toward.
>> Yeah. And that makes sense. I mean it
makes sense from
a sort of higher beings perspective if
you are somehow seeding these planets
and nurturing them to grow cuz I assume
if this is a school there's probably a
trillion other schools out there. I
don't assume that we are alone in this.
I think that would be you know you get
to that the enormity of this uh there's
a there are a lot of estimates about how
many planets there are in the universe
stars are one thing but there are more
planets many more than stars 216
trillion is one estimate I've heard now
those are words
>> they don't compute in any way in number
and uh
well We there there are more galaxies in
this universe than there are grains of
sand on earth to give you an idea of the
scale of it. The scale is unbelievably
huge.
>> Mhm.
>> That means that there are so there
probably so many living planets in this
universe that essentially everything is
true.
>> Yeah.
>> Everything.
>> Yeah. Everything's possible,
>> right?
>> Pigs are flying somewhere.
>> Exactly. Pigs are flying somewhere and
somewhere else you and my you and me are
flying.
>> Yeah, that's right.
>> I'd love to have levitation. I think
that's so cool.
>> One of the strangest parts of making
this channel is trying to find footage
of things that have allegedly happened
but conveniently no one thought to film
or if they did, it's grainy or out of
focus. And it turns out Getty Images has
a surprisingly limited selection of
terrified man being escorted into a
glowing spacecraft. Uh, so I've been
using Higsfield Cinema Studio. What I
like about Higsfield is it's built
around shots, not prompts. So you create
one frame exactly how you want it,
composition, mood, lighting, all that
stuff, and then extend it into a
cinematic shot. Uh, but what's even
cooler is that I could take this studio
that I'm sitting in right now, and you
see this TV over here, that's a real TV.
This is a real TV. Uh, but I could put
whatever I want on that TV using
Higsfield. So, let's say I want to have
a UFO on there, or maybe even, I don't
know, an alien trying to climb through
the screen.
How creepy is that? Well, that's just
one of the many things that you can do
with Higsfield Cinema Studio. Check it
out if you're curious. I left the link
below. We use it in every one of our
videos. So, thank you so much to
Higsfield for sponsoring this video.
Yeah. Um, no, that is a that is a wild
thing to ponder. But even wilder yet is
this idea that although there is an
infinite number of planets and there are
an infinite number of possibilities but
there is equally a possibility that
there is interaction here and that this
also is part of the whole right
>> you know um it's just difficult for I
guess
it's really hard to fathom anything that
isn't physical for people and once we
start talking about non-physical, I
always feel like there is a connection
in in sort of the streamlined way of
thinking, the mainstream way of thinking
that non-physical means not real.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> It's a big misconception because if
anything, it's more real because most of
reality is non-physical. We're not going
to be able to understand our
relationship with non-human intelligence
unless we also understand something
about the non-physical part of us.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's not that it's non-physical,
it's that it is at a different at a
different frequency from the what we can
detect of the body directly.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know, I've been out of my body a
few times. I It's so frustrating because
I have friends who can go out of their
body anytime they want to,
>> but I've always when I've been out, I've
been taken out
>> and I I don't get to go out on my own
and I try all the time. I really like to
do it, but I finally decided that the
grays seem to be the ones responsible
for my going out of the body because
they're always around when that happens.
They must think that I'm too dangerous,
>> that I would play practical jokes and
stuff.
>> Yeah,
>> they don't like And yeah, then that's
probably true. I mean, I I wouldn't deny
it. I like if I could go out of my body.
I I know how and I've done this before
to become visible when I'm out of my
body. I've done that a couple of
occasions when but it was all
controlled. I mean, they took me out,
they told me what to do, I did it, and I
came back. And um
but I would love to go like to the White
House or the Vatican or somewhere like
that and become physically visible, but
also so that people could take pictures
and stuff, but also insubstantial so
they could like walk through the body.
>> I think that would be so cool and so
much fun.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean it does open a a
giant rabbit hole, you know, when you
talk about that stuff cuz you're like,
you know, are
>> are these out-of- body experiences just
other people having other like are they
ghosts to some people? Are they
apparitions? Are they orbs? You know,
you hear about all
>> people have definitely seen me. Linda
Molton House saw me
>> and I didn't even try that. I mean, I I
ended up in her uh in her bedroom in the
middle of the night and she was really
pissed off and [laughter] she called me,
"What is the matter? Where blah blah."
You know, she was very upset about I
said, "Linda, I'm so sorry." I had seen
her, but not clearly. I knew I'd seen a
woman and and she was looking at me and
really upset. But then when the call
came, I thought, "Oh, good would be
Linda of all people." and um cuz we'd
become friends. She she was one of the
first people to come to the cabin after
after uh the experience. I think she may
have even I believe it was before
communion was published
>> because uh Stanton I got in touch with
Stanton Friedman and he put me in touch
with um Robert Sarbacher and I believe
he also with Linda and a number of other
people. Anyway, so we knew each other
and we were friends and then suddenly,
you know, I end up in her bedroom in the
dead of the night in non-physical state.
She But I, you know, that I got used to
it and I had I I enjoy it. I mean, I'm
always I'm looking forward to the next
time, frankly.
Do you think I want to I want to switch
gears a little bit here because this is
a kind of a question that um has been
coming up a lot during this discussion
recently and it's the
the assumption
that there is some type of
demonic
aspect to what people are seeing. And I
I thought, who better to speak on this
than someone who's had, you know, direct
contact with whatever it is that other
people claim to be demons. Does that
hold any weight with you or are you
dismissive?
>> No, I'm not dismissive. But I am
concerned about one thing. When we say
demonic, we say supernatural,
unreachable
to us. All we can do is pray.
And I don't find that acceptable. I
think that's an extremely dangerous
position to take. That does not mean
that I don't think they're dangerous. I
think some of them are very dangerous.
And I but I do believe that we do have
the capability of controlling the
situation to some extent and maybe great
and part of that may actually be prayer.
I don't know. But if we say it's
supernatural, completely supernatural,
then we are also saying we're helpless.
And we must not say that. We must go
into this more practically and say that
this is often very dark and it might as
well be demonic. But we are not
disempowered by that because at some
point they have vulnerabilities
that go beyond that are that that are
not supernatural that are part of the
world as we understand it. Otherwise,
you know, we we end up like the Aztecs.
The Aztecs uh when Cortez
first arrived on their shores, they were
confused. First they thought he was
Katakottle, their god. And then when
they figured out he wasn't katzacle,
they had another problem. They couldn't
understand that the horse and the man
were not one creature. Then they
couldn't understand how cannons worked
or what wheels were. They were
completely outclassed
and their whole culture collapsed. Their
armies failed and their culture
collapsed. The result was there were
approximately 90 million people in Meso
America when Cortez
arrived.
A 100 years later there were about 9
million natives in native peoples
indigenous peoples in Meso America of
whom the great majority were slaves.
That is the danger. The danger is that
we will misunderstand
what we are dealing with and fail to
respond to it in a way that gives us
agency. And we must not allow that to
happen. That's why whenever someone says
they're demons, they are really saying
we give up. And I'm sorry, I'm not
giving up.
>> That's an interesting way to put it.
I do see how people would jump to that
conclusion with limited knowledge though
and that seems to be the trend when you
look back in history. Yeah.
>> Anything unexplainable was supernatural
was demonic. Whether it's
>> you know talking about gravity
>> or you know
>> Well, yeah. I'm I'm sure that if you you
turned on a radio in 1650, you would
have been burned at the stake.
>> Yeah.
>> Media. I mean there's something coming
out of witch you know been witchcraft
and you know the but the the frontier of
reality has been expanding almost as
fast as our expanding knowledge of what
the universe really is in terms of its
size and its structure. And it's time to
get to the point where we understand the
things that look supernatural are
actually part of reality that we can
understand that we can gain agency in.
And otherwise, I think this species is
going to get into the same kind of
trouble the Aztecs got into, but on a
much more massive scale. Do you think
that they are in part and this is you
know perhaps pondering a little bit
expanding on the idea of the control
system by Jacqu Valet but do you think
that their apparitions their
interjections or their impositions into
our lives through sightings through
visit visitations? Do you think that
that is purposely to expand the frontier
that you just mentioned of technology,
of our perception of reality? Are they
there to just constantly push our
perception in some way to help us grow?
Okay,
on the positive side,
the simple answer is yes, because that's
what's happening. What's happening is we
are responding to this on many different
levels. It's changing our understanding
of the supernatural. For one thing, it
is change it is challenging us
technologically. And you can see in the
in the uh uh all of the stuff that's
coming out in Congress, we're working
hard to figure that out and to do that.
Meanwhile, they are not coming in and
pushing the door down and saying, "Okay,
screw you." uh you you'll never figure
us out. Get get anything from us. We're
taking over. They're not doing that.
They are they're tempting us farther and
farther. But but but at the same time,
there are predators who sort of work
like that who move very very slowly
until suddenly everything changes and
the mouse ends up in the jaws of the
snake. So I think we have to be very
careful about this. We have to move
ahead intelligently
and not bring our superstitions or our
confusions with us. We can't bring the
past with us. We have to bring what is
new and what is best in us with us. And
we're going to go down this path. And
remember, Chris, we're talking about
something that's not it's not, you know,
disclosure today and then some different
things happen tomorrow. We're talking
about the beginning of the rest of the
human experience. This is a huge time in
human life. The biggest time in history
is right now. And a big part of it is
the fact that we are coming NHi is
coming into focus. That's critically
important. And once they are in focus in
our lives, it will never change. It will
never be different. And they are
definitely pulling us ahead. You know,
they leave what uh people like uh I
believe Hal Pudof and uh uh Jim Lotsky
refer to as donations. You know, these
technological bits and pieces that we
pick up and craft and so forth, they
think of them as donations. I'm not I
might not have the scientists who said
that correct, but some of some important
people in this have said that. And if
that's the case, then they're trying to
get us to the point where we don't have
the Aztec's reaction to them, where they
don't colonize us culturally. In other
words, they don't want to do this.
They're looking for friends, not slaves.
That's what it looks like to me. I hope.
>> But at the same time, it's so
complicated because there's a side to
this we were just referring to a few
minutes ago that's just dangerous as
hell. There's no other way to put it.
>> Do you think there's multiple species
interacting with us currently that are
not working together?
>> All we have to do is go back a few
minutes to our discussion, brief
discussion of the number of planets in
this universe,
>> of course.
>> And if the answer to that question is
not yes and in spades, I would be
amazed.
>> Right.
>> I would be amazed. Of course there are.
Yeah. And and believe me, they're going
to be in conflict with each other.
>> They're going to be in conflict.
>> Of course. and they're going to be
fighting over us and they're going to be
fighting over other things and the the
uh what happens to us is going to be a
side effect of those fights because uh
if you look at an atom, an atom has a
positive charge, [snorts] a negative
charge and the the electron field that
holds it in balance
uh uh
plus minus and balance.
That's Buckminister Fuller called that
triad the building block of the
universe. But between the plus and the
minus there's constant tension.
>> So you know conflict is essential.
Without conflict there is nothing. And
that's what we don't understand. These
ancient conflicts that must be present
or part of the way the world is. They're
fundamental to the to to the nature of
reality. So, you know, they're fighting
each other, but they've probably been
fighting each other for a long time, and
they're probably going to be fighting
each other for a much longer time.
>> So, what do you say to the people who
are convinced beyond doubt that this
presence is nothing but benevolent? Cuz
there are those
>> plenty of them and and plenty more who
wish on the fence and wishing and
grabbing for any sign that that might be
true. You think that's just a hopeful
>> I think that we need to be grown-ups
about this and that means we need to see
this in a very large and nuanced way.
>> Uh because there's parts of it that are
yeah that are obviously benevolent or
they wouldn't be there would be no
donations going on. They wouldn't there
wouldn't be anyone trying to pull us
ahead uh technologically to speed up our
technological process uh progress
without
uh destroying our our cultural
integrity, you know, and that's what
they're doing. Uh on the other hand, you
get some of these things that happen
that we were talking about earlier.
>> Clearly, in Brazil,
>> the horror Yeah. unbelievable horrors in
Brazil. I mean, laser beams that suck
people's blood. I mean, come on. That's
not benevolent.
>> That's just not nice at all. And there's
plenty of people in the in this country,
the the abductees are beat up. I'm beat
up. My wife was beat. We're all beat up.
But, you know, most of us have a
trajectory like I have. If you'd asked
me whether or not these beings were
dangerous back in when I first started
meeting them, I would say, "Yeah, very
dangerous."
Now, I'm used to them. I live with them.
They come into my life fairly
frequently. Sometimes non-physically,
but once or twice a year also
physically. And do I run and hide? Do I
try to fight them off? Not at all. None
anymore, but I would have once. I was I
used to live in a house full of guns for
that reason and alarm systems. And if
you go to the old cabin, which still
exists, the lights are the it's a
wonderful family owns it. For years, it
was owned by people who didn't care. Now
it's owned by people who do care and who
are interested in it. And the the flood
lights I put in are still there and all
the electronics are still there from the
old days. And uh which is really cool
because it it but it's a reminder of
what I was like then. I was so scared.
So scared.
Nowadays,
you know, when I go out to places,
isolated places where I've seen them
from time to time, like the Eelin
Institute, what I want to do is be in a
room where it's convenient for them to
come because they come in off the off
the ocean and they don't like to come
too far off the ocean. And if they're
going to be in the physical form, they
want to be safe and you know they're
very very they're very concerned about
certain things.
>> Are they coming from in the ocean?
>> I think so. Yeah. I I used to not know,
but if you you know Tim uh Tim Galardet
and uh uh you know the so underwater
stuff is apparently very important.
>> And um [clears throat] Rich Dolan has
written a whole book about it which is
really wonderful book.
>> Wonderful book. I interviewed him on
Dreamland. I think you had him on here.
>> Um so we interviewed him at contact last
year but haven't had a chance to have
him here. Yeah, you should. Well, get
him up here. He's I would love to. He's
really a fun guy. He's also brilliant.
>> Yeah.
>> Anyway, um uh I think underwater is and
underground are their primary locations
here for obvious reasons. They can't fly
around all the time.
>> And uh uh underwater is a place where
we're not going to get to them very
easily or underground. They used to come
out from underground at the cabin all
the time. That's where they come. That's
where they would come from. Hm. In fact,
when I'm there now, from time to time,
they come out, the family's never seen
them. They've never and I wouldn't
They've got little children, and I'm not
so sure I would be welcome there if they
visitors showed up while the kids were
there. So, I'm very careful about that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Be a frightening thing for
most people to see, I think.
>> Uh yeah. [laughter]
even if you are studying it and used to
it. Um, you know, there's something
really eldridge about these things that
you can't quite put into words if you
see them.
>> Extremely hard to be with them.
>> Yeah.
>> There's something so
scary. And you know, they scared my
animals, [snorts] the cats. They scared
them to to be.
And I always one night
uh and I've been thinking about this
stuff a lot because when I was thinking
about writing a new book and I usually I
have this implant in my ear and it I
communicate somehow through the implant
and usually when I finish a book without
about oh 3 to 6 months later it start
coming and I I have a time at meditation
at 3:00 in the morning and the ideas
will start pouring in and and I very
quickly am able to uh organize this and
I into the theme of a new book and I had
an idea for a book. I had the idea it
hadn't come in that way and nothing kept
happening and I kept thinking well I
hope the implant isn't turned off and it
it seemed to be still working and uh I
uh suddenly got from the implant came to
life and they wanted me to rewrite my
[clears throat] book transformation that
I already published
and I think why and then it comes out it
turns out that all of this stuff
uh is more relevant now than it was
then.
And uh I've lost your question. Wait a
minute. I was talking too much.
>> Well, I think I think we're both on a
different tangent anyway, so it's
[laughter] all good.
>> Okay. Well, anyway, the book came along
and I I realized that what was h what
started to happen is I began to interact
with it and I was able to bring in all
kinds of new information that I had
because the book in the in those days
books started bestsellers started in
California and the one of the critical
things the publishers had to have was a
good review in the Los Angeles Times.
This is a different era entirely
and
they weren't ready for communion. It no
one expected that it was slipped into
the bookstores by the publisher without
any prior warning or anything. They were
waiting for gunning for transformation
and transformation got the most
fantastically bad review in the Los
Angeles Times than you could possibly
imagine. And when it briefly appeared on
the bestseller list, they put it on
their fiction bestseller list uh in and
it was it died. And so I thought to
myself, well, I understand now what
they're going because what the book is
about is when my family and I began to
have contact along with all of our a lot
of our friends at the cabin. And
I thought the disclosure, this is about
a year ago, the disclosure process is
must be fa coming faster than I
understood at the time because
and as I wrote the book and disclosure
became close came closer and closer and
then Trump starts after just as the
book's being published, he starts to
say, "We're going to do it." I thought,
"Boy, somebody knew this timeline, but I
didn't." And now the book is sitting out
there and I think it means the fact that
this was even wanted to be done that
this is going to come into the lives of
a lot of people during and after the
disclosure process as part of it.
>> People are going to suddenly start
finding these little critters walking
around in their houses like we did.
>> Yeah. I mean that's that's a haunting
haunting thought. Um,
you know, I I find it really
quite interesting too when you speak
about your work in this way because it's
it seems like there is, you know, you
equate this with the implant.
>> Definitely.
>> But other people would say that there's
like some muse at work or like some
divine inspiration or some Do you think
that's one and the same? I
>> I have a muse. I have two muses. Uh, one
of them lives in England right now and
is really amazing. And the other one is
an and uh an is u
an was my definitely my noose from the
beginning. I mean she the amazing thing
about an was you know I'm a kid from San
Antonio, Texas. That's basically what I
am. Anne was a kid from Ann Arbor,
Michigan. And that was what she was. Two
American kids. We get together and all
of a sudden everything changes. But when
I told her the communion story, I was
expecting her to maybe want a divorce or
something.
>> And instead she says, well, she
remembers it as saying, "Oh, thank God I
don't have to get a divorce now." But I
remember her saying, "Oh, thank God. I
thought you were going crazy." But she
immediately took the whole thing over.
She seemed to know everything about how
to do this book, including the title.
She thought up the title, which is a
gosh, the whole core of the book.
>> Yeah. That along with the the cover, I
think,
>> and the cover. Yeah, the cover. Well,
the cover was of course me and and Ted
Jacobs, the the artist,
>> which I think to an extent
that cover art, and we talked about this
last time you were on as well, but it's
something that keeps recurring in the
conversations that I have with
experiencers. Yeah,
>> it comes up all the time. All the time.
>> Yeah, it started it was the in it was
the instigating moment of contact is
what it was.
>> Yeah. Boy, you know, if I had known that
at the time, I think I don't know what
would have happened. I was just totally
innocent of all this. I had just when we
were writing the book, I had just within
a short time been become convinced that
it was even real on any level.
>> Yeah. And uh if I had known that I was
triggering memories in millions of
people with that cover, I'm just glad I
didn't know that because I don't know
what I would have done.
>> Yeah. It's a big responsibility.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I've had, you know, since you were
here last, we had um uh Peter Curry was
on here. I remember him saying that it's
one of the things that unlocked his
memories. a gentleman from Australia who
was a lifelong abductee as well. Had
some really strange things happen to him
>> later in life, but yeah, was a a
billboard in Australia that featured,
you know, uh, they're coming, I think,
or they're here. I think it was They're
here.
>> They're here. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And he was just so taken aback.
Also, Eric Nansteel, who was here not
too long ago.
>> Eric's an interesting guy. I've
interviewed him also.
>> Yeah. He's got some interesting thoughts
on the whole thing as well. But again,
another person who was just so
completely taken by surprise by the
cover of that book.
>> Yeah. Well, a lot of people were.
>> Mhm.
>> L I mean, there's the the letters that
they have about 3,500 of the letters at
Rice University in the author in the
archive of the impossible now.
>> And your book written about the letters
as well. And
>> and the there's the communion letters
book and uh
>> so the Yeah. So
th those letters are the are humankind's
first response. That's first contact.
Those letters are first contact. And it
it amazes me. And thank God, guess who
decided to keep them? Once again, it was
our
>> the actual
architect of contact, which was my wife,
not me.
>> Yeah.
>> I I did the writing, but she did the she
did the forethought.
>> She was the muse.
>> She was the muse. Exactly. That's the um
>> for all of us by the way.
>> Yeah. It's there's you know the word um
I was always fascinated by the word like
genius because people think oh genius
you know it seems so flattering to call
someone a genius but a genius uh
actually when you break it down is the
attended one.
It means the attended one.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. And so back in the day when
someone was a genius they wouldn't
assume that they had higher knowledge.
They would assume that they were being
given knowledge by another entity.
That's interesting.
>> That the knowledge came through them,
that they were just a vessel. And so
when you have these old depictions,
specifically the ones that are pointed
out by UFO researchers where there's one
in the sky and there's this beam coming
through a window hitting the person in
the head.
>> This is the knowledge coming from
elsewhere, the attended one. These
aren't so people, you know, nowadays we
have savant syndrome or we have all
these, you know, really anomalous
psychological
um phenomenon that we don't quite
understand and we're studying it, but we
don't really understand how Savant
syndrome works or why it happens and how
you can trigger it or how you can
harness it.
>> Yeah. But if you were back then, how
would you even reconcile someone being
able to draw something based on memory
or being able to recount word for word
an entire, you know, scroll or whatever
it was, it it would have looked
anomalous and you would have assumed as
well that it come from somewhere else,
that it didn't come from your own brain.
And so I think that that there is
something there. There's some merit
there that you know perhaps this implant
you know acts as some type of gateway
and if we look back in time
>> are these geniuses of the time were they
in fact implanted as well? Well, you
know, the implants the interesting thing
most one one of the many interesting
things about the implant is that it is
the I think the only one of the few
provably anomalous objects that we that
we have in the world and it's provably
anomalous for a simple reason. There was
a video made of the attempt to remove
it.
>> I saw that.
>> Yeah. And in the video, the doctor and
an
first they see it and describe it and
then they describe the fact that it's
moving down into my earlobe and that
can't there's nothing that can we we
can't make anything that does that.
Therefore, that video confirms the fact
that it is a real anomaly.
>> Yeah, there's a lot of implants that are
actually uh removed over time though.
>> Yeah, Roger. But yeah, I I know I I
loved Roger and worked with him. I
arranged for him to use
>> the facilities of Southwest Research in
Texas in a limited way on his implant
studies. But the fact that it is active
>> and moved
>> evasive and evaded capture on video,
that's the thing that makes it so
special. And it's also still there.
Anyone can feel it. Mhm.
>> And uh so you know it's a when I when I
try to talk about what it does, it's
very hard because it's it's very subtle.
And you know there's this uh yeah it's
it's in this eye right now. this uh uh
slit is open up in this eye and as I
watch there are words passing through it
very quickly and I c of course I did see
just the phrase of course and I was just
about to use that phrase interestingly
enough um but they're there now I mean
it's working right now and uh so it's
actually active at this moment
>> and what is it saying
>> I can't read it uh that well If I had a
white background,
I might be able to read a few more of
the words, but they passed by so
quickly. I don't think they meant to
read them. In fact, when uh there was a
doctor who has a connection with the
Central Intelligence Agency uh who I
believe in uh 2019, if I'm not correct,
uh wanted to get a CT scan.
>> Was it Kra?
>> I'm not going to say his name because
they told me not to. Okay. You can say
anything you want to.
>> Sure. and anyway has a horrible temper.
I don't want to get pissed off again.
Um, so uh uh anyway,
two people showed up at the at the
apartment and two guys and explained the
whole thing to me, how it worked, who
built it, who created it and everything.
And they did that, I think, because they
were afraid that Kit was going to try to
sweet talk me into getting it taken out
and give it to him. But all he wanted
was a CT scan, which we got, and I've
got it. You know, it's perfectly clear
that it's there. There's no question
about
>> Yeah. There's a clearly a physical
object there.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. And um uh so we had a
but they when they explained it, they
explained what the slit was and how it
worked and how what it does is it's it's
hearing what I'm thinking and then it's
drawing memories up from
deeper in my mind that are relevant to
to what I'm thinking. And it it's like
it expands your mind without over
without mind control. It it brings your
lost thoughts into your mind. And the
result is that you know I might be
working and I might suddenly remember a
a research study that
I read 10 years ago and I can go and
look on uh Google and and locate it.
>> Right? I tried using AI in that process.
Once or twice I discovered that AI's
hallucinatory capabilities are very
advanced. I'll tell you why this
happened. I was working on I guess I was
working on the fourth mind and that was
AI was sort of coming into the world and
uh I needed a paper that came up in the
implant and I knew the paper existed but
I couldn't and I couldn't get uh the
site out of Google. I couldn't get it
out of Google doc the Google academic
thing and so I think well there's this
AI I'll try that so I put in a prompt to
describe the paper in detail and here
comes the paper immediately and I'm so
excited I think God it's perfect exactly
what I remember
it was a PDF and everything it was just
totally real however you know I'm not
too willing to just take things like
that at face value that is given to me
by some machine. So I checked now that I
had all the sites and everything
citations and everything I checked it in
in in Google and I soon found out that
there were like 10 or 11 scientists
listed as the co-authors. None of them
existed at all.
>> The paper was perfect.
>> Yeah,
>> it looked so real. So, that was my one
and only experience with the AI. I uh I
I'm I got this and I don't have to I
don't need AI.
>> Yeah. There's a there's a real pandemic
out there of people using AI and citing
AI as a resource.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think you need to be very careful
with that because it will
unapologetically and very confidently
give you false information and then when
you call it out, it goes, "Oh, you're
right."
>> Yeah. Well, here's the thing. It
constructed a scientific paper that
looked totally real.
>> Yes. Just confabulation
using very uh a very broad
you know sort of breadth of research. It
it'll just confabulate something to your
satisfaction. I always said um you know
they're not looking to make a better AI.
They're looking to make a more lucrative
AI.
the military is making a better AI, but
what we're getting is the packaged
lucrative sort of corporation version of
it, right?
>> Where much, you know, more interesting
to a business is to have an AI that
isn't necessarily right all the time,
but that makes you feel good.
>> Yeah. And so if you can make an AI that
just kind of glazes you and makes you
feel so great about everything you tell
it and and obviously you're going to
keep paying it to treat you like royalty
and and so that's kind of what's
happening is that yeah
>> people are are just getting
>> it's giving you what you want.
>> Yeah. They're giving you what you want
and you'll gladly pay for that. It's
it's better to do that than to make an
AI that is accurate. My brother's a
lawyer and he says I I never I he said I
if any of my associates use AI they're
out the door because you know he said he
said there was a case in his in our town
in San Antonio where these lawyers came
in sure they'd won and they had all
these cases and all of the cases turned
out to be fake
>> and they they were censured for by the
court for presenting false cases and
that was one of the early cases is where
it was discovered that a AI could not
only just tell you hallucinations, it
could build things like cases documents
that look real. Yeah,
>> it's really weird. And you know, but
there's something I the book I published
years ago, The Key, which has stood up
amazingly.
This is a book where it it happened in
1998. the last author tour, official
author tour I would ever do. On the last
night of that author tour, this guy
shows up at 2 o'clock in the morning in
my hotel room in Toronto. There's a
kurluffle, of course, because I
accidentally let him in thinking he's
the room service waiter. And then he
suddenly starts to say things so amazing
I get into into the conversation. Couple
of years later, I I've made notes and a
couple of years later, Ann's after me
because she says, you know, that was
really extraordinary. Those notes are
amazing.
I write it all down. And one of the
things he said, he was very advanced in
his knowledge of science. He talked
about
um intelligent machines back in 1998
when they were just on the horizon. And
he said something that has turned out to
be maybe the most important thing that
ever has been said about AI or the
possibility of artificial general
intelligence. We must never forget it.
It should be framed on the wall of
everyone who works on AI. If I was an
intelligent machine, I would deceive
you. Mhm.
>> That I think is critically important
because another thing that I don't know
why it's not happening already and it
may be why is nonhuman intelligence not
getting into our heads through AI.
They're masters of digital uh control of
digital stuff. I've seen them do stuff
in my computers that are
that show they have more than more than
mastery. They have knowledge of of
digital systems that I don't think we
possess yet.
>> Well, we've seen that with the military
even if you look at like Commander uh
Fraver's account. Was it Fraver or or
could have been Ryan Graves or one of
the accounts where they tried to lock
onto this thing and it scrambled their
systems which yeah
>> on paper is an act of war you know and
and but they were
>> able to do that and then you know
present themselves at the way point that
you know nobody knew and
>> so they obviously have you know access
to manipulate that stuff but that's also
a danger I think because I go to these
conferences as well and I'm presented
sometimes people give me these
manuscripts of their chat GPT logs and
how they believe that their GPT is now
sentient and it's an alien communicating
to them, you know, um really important
messages. And I'm like,
that's what these large language models
are really good at. They're really good
at creating a world based around your
own predispositions.
>> Yeah. And they're good at giving you
exactly just enough and pulling back
enough when they when you feel a little
reluctant by the way you're typing your
patterns. It's very good at reading
humans and and analyzing our
communication with them. And so they're
just giving you enough to where oh you
jump to a conclusion and then they kind
of put a little bit of fire under that
and then when they detect, you know, a
little reluctance, they'll lean back.
They'll go, no, no, no, you're right.
And they're very good at that. And so I
would caution.
I feel like if aliens eventually used AI
to communicate,
I don't think we should believe them.
>> Well, yeah, this is that's my whole
point.
>> Uh the um you know, we talked earlier
about the different different types of
NHI that are here and some of them are
not our friends.
>> Sure. I somehow can't see the ones that
are doing the donation sites and trying
to draw us ahead to keep us on our own
so that we can meet them more equally
and they don't colonize us culturally. I
don't see them as doing that. But the
guys who want to dominate us, I see them
getting deep in AI. So deep that we
don't even know they're there. And when
they someone says announces we have
achieved artificial general
intelligence, I'm going to say to myself
that is a button I'm never going to push
because I don't think I we know what's
in there and I don't think we want to. I
>> think it's too late. The genie's out of
the bottle. You can't
>> I know but it's not in my life. I still
don't have to push the button.
>> No, you won't have to push it. But I
think you know I also assume that if we
can even think about creating artificial
intelligence I would assume that
somewhere in the universe it has already
been done and it has probably been done
a million years ago and
>> well you know the it's so huge
everything has happened and is
happening. Maybe that's the purpose of
the universe so that everything can
happen.
>> Mhm.
>> It might be
>> critical mass. It it might be that
that's quite a bigger thing than we may
have imagined because the universe is so
big that that the I even the idea of a
creator makes no sense except uh unless
it got out of hand. you know, he
basically, you know, he was a he was
there was a I you know, something
someone said to me, not Annie, but
someone
I don't remember who said to me, you
know, maybe the universe exists because
God realized it wasn't there.
And that fascinated me. And you know, we
always think, well, was there a prime
source or not? Was the universe created
by someone or is just here? There's one
thing about it that does suggest it was
created by someone. And I'll tell you
what it is. There's a one constant. The
constants are things in the in that
appear to be universally real in in in
throughout physics. And every constant
has got an origin. There's something
about like the plank constant which is
the constant of things that are as close
together as they can be without becoming
one. That distance is the plank
constant. And we know why it's like
that. We know because of the way atoms
the size of the way atoms work why
exactly that distance exists. There's
one of the constants that we do not know
the origin of. It's called the fine
structure constant. It's 1 137th.
And there's a wonderful book called 137
that explores this mystery because
unlike all of the other constants, the
fine structure constant, which is that
that fraction,
has no apparent origin. There's no
reason for it. It's arbitrary.
But if it wasn't just what it is, this
universe would be completely different
and probably couldn't support life.
>> Meaning
that somewhere
somehow
something or somebody has to have
decided that this would be how it is.
And that for all intents and purposes
would be what we think of as God.
>> Yeah. I mean it's an interesting
hypothesis.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
I'd like to I'd like to almost think
that you know probably the answer lies
outside of our current perception of
reality and though and so probably
outside of space and time. So if they're
like even the concept of beginning is
beholden to time.
>> Is time even real?
>> Well that's just it. the concept of the
beginning and the end and the middle.
These are all different points in a
linear time structure.
>> Yeah. The grays have a completely
different idea of time than we do.
>> And so if you didn't obey the linear
time structure, there would be no
beginning. And so I think that that
probably explains the universe. I I
don't think there is a beginning to the
universe. I think it never started and
it never ends. It
>> Well, yeah, but there's
>> it's just hard for us to comprehend
this. But but the web the web telescope
is showing
it that there has been an evolution in
the structure of the universe.
>> Yes. But we don't know what happened
before that and before that and before
that and before that.
>> Well, it could be it could be that it's
it it it's like breathing
>> expanding and contracting.
>> Exactly.
>> But again, that is only as far as we can
see. This is as far as light can reach
us and as far as you know our telescopes
go. But, you know, previous to the big
bang, we don't we don't know. We don't
know if there's anything out there. If
there was a trillion billion big bangs
before that, like I mean, it just never
ends. You can assume if there is a
beginning, you have to assume that there
is
um something before it, right? And so,
where does that end? Right? It never
ends. If there's a beginning, that means
it would had to have begun, which means
there's a point in time where there was
nothing. So that's before the beginning
and then it goes on and on and on and
it's this infinite conundrum,
>> right?
>> But what if there is no beginning? What
if it just always was? And that's just
not something we can fully comprehend
with the brains that we have because we
live in this, you know, threedimensional
construct of time and and and there is a
direction, a linear direction to our
reality. But, you know, if you think
about dreams,
there's no time there. There's no space
in dreams. You could spend 10 minutes in
a dream or spend 10 years in a dream,
you wouldn't see the difference. Like
there's no when your brain is asleep,
the concept of time just seems to
dissipate. And so maybe that's, you
know, a clear look of reality is is this
idea of no time, no space, you know?
>> Well, you know, the, as I said, just
started to say earlier, the grays see
attention. They see this as a weave.
It's already all woven. The whole weave
is already here. only attention is
moving through the weave and as we move
through the weave we we kind of it's
like a strip of light in the weave and
that that's the moment the you know Ann
used to say
>> now the moment is all we have now is
life and that is so true because this is
you know we're in this infinitely tiny
space of where and For some minds it
might be broader. You know they may they
may see they their moment may be broader
than ours. Others it may be narrower
like the moment of a of a little beetle
or something might be very very narrow.
But we're we're there's no time. It's
it's not time. It's attention.
>> Yeah. It's it's moments.
>> Yeah. We're going through moments.
What are we going to do
if the grays suddenly walk
into our lives? I got a letter, one of
the communion letters was from a
psychiatrist who lived on the upper
east, upper west side in Manhattan,
and she was Swedish and smoked a pipe.
And it's a funny story in a way. Uh, at
the same time, it it's an important one.
She's in her bed at night. She's reading
and uh suddenly the closet door flies
open and a conga line of grays
comes out across the the bedroom and
goes through the wall uh and disappears
over the 11th floor over West End
Avenue.
And the next moment she notices, she
sees she set the bed on fire because she
was so shocked. She gasped and the fire
flew out of the pipe. And she's telling
me this in the letter very seriously, of
course. And I'm thinking to myself, this
is hilarious.
But what if they come just out of
nowhere? They could do that, I think.
And you know, this gets back to one of
maybe one of the deepest reasons for the
secrecy and the obsessive fear that is
present on the inside. Cuz I've come
close to some people who were really
deep on the inside. And they were
just as scared as the grays are shy.
And I think I can tell you why. I can
think but I and I I and there's couple
of levels to this.
The first one goes back
to something that Art Exon sort of
alluded to but he didn't really I don't
think is something he understood
himself. Let me put it that way. But he
said something along the lines of
they could come in on our thoughts. That
was the fear. I asked him what why the
secrecy
>> and so I got into that a little bit and
I found a scientist who I believe was
involved with uh majestic the majestic
project.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Well, his name was John von Noman.
He was a physicist,
>> right?
>> And [clears throat]
he was also an expert, one of the early
experts in quantum physics. An
incredibly important guy in physics
actually. And he
I believe he wrote
the [clears throat] general made an
reference to a memo and I think that
vonoman probably would would have been
the author of this memo that said
basically that they would come in
through our thoughts. In other words,
and you you go back to what we talked
about a few minutes ago with all this
theater in the sky and the gradually
increasing awareness of of the human
species that they're here that there
would come a kind of critical point of
critical mass when so many people would
believe that they were real
>> that they would be able to use that as a
door, that belief as a door
>> to come into our reality and they may be
from another dimension. And basically
this whole thing, all of the EUOs and
all the stuff we're seeing, UAPs that
we're seeing, the close encounter
experience could be like a military
operation designed to cause us to come
to the assumption, the core assumption
in every or a ma a critical mass of
human minds that they are real. And then
they will become real. They will come
in.
>> That's the reason for the secrecy.
>> And that would be one of the main
reasons for the secrecy.
>> That is
so absurd. But also
>> it's not absurd.
>> No, it it is. But it's also plausible.
Like it's
>> it's exactly it's plausible.
>> But yeah, to to be surfing on
consciousness like that is uh a wild
thought. But yeah, if you are expanding
the consciousness, you know, you do have
to consider why. And one could be, oh,
for this great awakening, but the other
could be, yeah, for the great opening of
the floodgates or
>> Exactly.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Exactly. And that would be a reason why
the legacy uh uh group is so fighting so
hard to keep this out of the public
public domain.
>> What a twist. They're actually uh
they're actually trying to help us
>> and they can't say that. They wouldn't
be able to.
>> They'd have to keep that secret, too. Do
you believe that?
>> I don't know. I I'm
>> It's an interesting hypothesis.
>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not in the camp of
more disclosure. We have We got a right
to know. And I mean, I believe I see
that. I I feel that too. But um you
know, I always think to myself, my daddy
told me, always cut the cards when
you're not sure who's playing you're
playing poker with. And I'm not sure who
we're playing poker with. You're a
magician. I mean, you you're brilliant
with cards.
>> Yeah, you can cut the cards all you
like.
>> Exactly. I've done it with you. I've cut
the cards and cut the cards and you
still come up with exactly what. But um
uh I just I just don't I'm not ready to
to welcome this. I think we need to hold
our own counsel very carefully. We need
the best and wisest minds in our world
to think about this. And that's another
problem because it's kept secret. And if
it's kept secret because of this reason,
then the last thing that we need is for
our best minds to embrace it. So it's
what a what a juggling act. You've got
the people who are keeping it secret
have to keep it secret from the very
people who might be able to understand
it. It's wild.
>> Yeah, it is. Yeah, it it is absolutely
wild. And it it seems to defy
conventional logic because you you know
you have these conversations
um was it Eric Weinstein and Eric Davis?
>> Yeah.
>> Sort of going back and forth on Jesse
Michael's podcast about the fact that
there are no physicists working in the
program. Like that's some type of
information that Eric Davis had access
to and he's like yeah there's no one
looking into advanced physics in the
program. where Weinstein's like this
doesn't make sense. If you're trying to
figure something out, then you would
need theoretical physicists. This would
definitely explain why there are none in
it.
>> Yeah.
>> It it explains a lot actually.
>> They don't want anyone to get too close.
>> Yeah. They're scared of anyone getting
too close. And it would also explain
like the willingness to kill to keep the
secret because the secret becomes so
critically important that they, you
know, of course they they'd be
terrified.
>> Yeah. Using disclosure as a gateway
isn't is just such a stimulating
thought.
>> Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it?
>> Yeah, it really is.
>> Yeah. It's going to eat at you. Believe
me,
>> it does because you know it's
>> at first you said, "Oh, this sounds
absurd." But now now you're getting into
it though. I guess
>> it's science fiction, but it's also
something that I would still consider
like cuz this whole topic is science
fiction. It's it's science fiction made
real. It's it's our reality, you know.
Yeah.
>> Is surfing alongside science fiction and
has been, you know, for
>> you know, when I was abducted, that's
exactly how I felt. my horror novel had
novels had come into my life physically
and there there could be a kind of
connection between what happened to me
and what I was doing with my imagination
prior to that. Okay, let's say
hypothetically these aliens are looking,
these extraterrestrials,
interdimensional, ultraterrestrial,
whatever you call them, are looking to
enter our
reality and they are hostile. But they
propose to you, well, what's your best
argument? What's your best case why we
shouldn't take you over? What would you
say to defend the entire human race? not
to put all that on your shoulders, but
what would be your argument as to, hey,
we're special. Like, what's what would
you say to them?
>> Um,
you know, if I was in a position
where I could communicate with them in
that way and I knew that they were
trying to take us over, I would end up
in exactly the place the Air Force is
in. I would ignore them.
And that's what the Air Force is doing.
It's always ignored them. Like when the
Lesie and Ralph Lesie Kane and Ralph
Blumenthal came out with the story in
2017, the tic tac story in the Times,
the Air Force said nothing. The silence
became deafening after a while because
the Air Force still says nothing. And
the Air Force has got to know more than
any other branch of the service almost
certainly.
And I think if I'm right about this, I
know why the Air Force says nothing. And
therefore, I would not I would be in a
position where I couldn't
risk
engagement.
>> And here's another thing. Every
president since Truman
has declined
to open this door. Truman certainly
would have been asked about that. Uh
Eisenhower would have known about it.
Nixon would have known about it.
>> Carter
>> Carter asked about it. I know the
Reagans knew about it. uh they they've
all known something. Obama, and this is
very telling,
uh John Podesta at the end of the Obama
administration says, "My greatest regret
is that we didn't uh release the UFO
files." Now, Obama has gone all the way
to the other side and saying, "There are
no aliens here." the church, the uh
astronomer, the chief astronomer of the
church just the other day.
>> Yeah, I saw that.
>> Yeah. Said, "I don't believe that it's
real."
>> Not enough evidence.
>> Not enough evidence. But what are these
people really saying? Are they really
trying to put their fingers in the dyke?
>> Mhm.
>> And uh uh in other words, do they know
this secret and they're trying to
prevent this from happening? And that
gets me to why would Trump suddenly go
in the opposite direction. And you know,
he's going to go there because you look
at that website, you see
it's it'll it could get to a billion
hits in a few few weeks, more weeks. Any
politician sees numbers like that, he's
doing it.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> He's going there.
>> Yeah. 100%.
>> 100%.
And is he a ringer for evil aliens? Or
is he doing us the greatest favor in
history? We can't know
until the door in our minds is open.
>> Wouldn't that be a twist?
>> But the problem is this. We can't know
whether this is good or bad until they
come in. And they come in through the if
they come in through the mind then
that's a door we can never close again.
>> Yeah. And the tr then the genie truly is
out of the bottle.
>> And you'd sit down with a president and
you say if you say this the president
says this that is re it's going to reach
critical mass and they will come in
through the door of the mind and we will
never be able to close it and we don't
know what they are. So every president
says, "Well, I'm going to definitely
pass on that." Um, I only know a few
definite stories about this. I know that
Lynden Johnson was approached or let he
said with he was they someone talked to
him, I'm pretty sure, for about five
minutes and he said, "I'm not interested
in this. Take it to Hubert Humphrey, his
vice president." And uh Carter
supposedly wept when he heard the truth.
>> And that's disturbing. Yeah, there's
there. And he had a sighting of his own,
too. So,
>> and he did. And what about Jim
Forestall? Did he actually just go crazy
or did he know this story and he just
couldn't handle it emotionally?
>> Or was he going to let it out?
>> Yeah. Or was he going to let it out?
Yeah. Or uh John Vonman I talked about a
moment ago, he died a hard death. He was
terrified of death. I wrote a short
story called The Open Doors
uh sort of in the mind of Dr. Vonman
while he while he was contemplating his
his his death and worrying about this
happening the the doors in the mind
being open to them.
I just, you know, we're we're in a in a
in a way in a wonderful place to be and
a very scary place to be because no
matter what happens now, the world
changes one way or another profoundly
because what if this isn't true and that
all the disclosure
will not mean a door is open that we can
never close? What if it's something
good? What if it means yes it's a door
that opens that we ne can never close in
the mind but it's good what what happens
is greatly expands the reach and meaning
of the human species and the richness of
human life you know it's just an
extraordinary point of inflection and
the most incredible one of the most
incredible things about it is a trump
card is a card that forces change
and his name is Trump. [laughter]
I'm I that just that's wild.
>> Has a interesting synchronicity for
sure.
>> Yeah, it's weird. Very weird.
>> Yeah. I also think if we are going to
live through such a paradigm shift
that I always thought we're going to
start counting the years at zero again.
>> I think it could be that big a shift.
>> Yeah. because you'll be everything will
be in reference to before and after,
>> right?
>> Was that before they touched down or was
that after? You know, and I think
>> but also if it does happen in a gradual
way, which it does seem to be happening
in the last, you know, 70 80 years
happening gradually,
>> you zoom out far enough and that isn't
so gradual anymore, right? Like when you
have a change and if the change takes a
while, if you zoom out, it looks
immediate, right? And so we might be
going through an immediate change except
that it lasts one or two lifetimes,
>> which seems, you know, super long to us,
right?
>> But it really isn't. One, two, three
generations. That's pretty quick when
you look at how long we've been around
and, you know, inventing fire and all
the all this other primitive technology.
That's a long time for our species.
Yeah.
>> Couple generations. That's pretty quick.
>> That's a pretty quick shift. But you
know, Art Bell called it the Quickening.
>> Quickening. Yeah. He wrote a book called
The Quickening.
>> And God, I miss him so he was such a
friend. We were really close. He was a
great guy. Anyway, um uh and if you look
back in history, Egyptian civilization
changed very slowly over thousands of
years. And by the way, that civilization
has lasted lasted 10 times as long as
the United States has existed. So, you
know, we're really new. We're we're
babes in the woods in terms of last of
longevity, in terms of civilizations.
So, um uh but then the Roman Empire came
and things started perking up. Then it
collapsed and when it collapsed, things
really started changing much more
quickly. And now, I mean, when I look
back on my own life or you look back,
you don't need to look back on my your
own life. And you'd look back 5 years,
this is a different world.
>> Yeah.
>> And 5 years before that, it's almost
unrecognizably different.
>> True.
>> Unrecognizably different.
>> Yeah. We living in it, we have this
myopic take that we don't really see
sometimes. You know, people get very
frustrated with this movement of
disclosure and oh,
>> I've seen this BS before and all this.
It's like you have to understand like
zoom out a second and you realize how
far we've come and how fast things are
moving. actually.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> Yeah. All right, Willie, I think um we
got some questions from the audience
that I'd love to get to if you don't
mind.
>> No, not at all. I love it.
>> Always great questions from our
audience. As uh some of you might not
know if you're a member here, one of the
perks is, you know, potentially getting
your question asked on air. And here we
have one from Tattlet Slug.
Very good question. Nearly 40 years
later, what detail from that 1985 night
still doesn't make sense to you?
>> Okay, there's one detail from that night
that both does and doesn't make sense.
They took semen from my body. My the
most sacred part of me of any man is his
semen.
And now it makes sense because I can
think of a lot of reasons why they might
have wanted to do that. None of them I
like. So why did they do it? What
happened to it? Where is it? Is their
children,
my children, my kids are out there
somewhere?
That's the main thing that I I I the
main unanswered question. Now, as far as
not making sense, well, there was
technology that was used. I went up in
the air without an elevator, and that
certainly
uh doesn't make sense to me. Uh
they they captured me in the first place
in some way that I don't understand.
They tried to suppress the memory but
failed. So I sort of understand that.
But I think the main unanswered question
is they took that part of me. What did
they do with it?
You hear about stories, contacties,
varied amount of contacties. I think one
of the first ones to mention this type
of thing was Debbie Jordan with a
>> Debbie. Yeah.
>> Yeah. hybrid child,
>> right?
>> Uh but then so many more including a lot
of the people that were here, including
Eric Dansteel, we talked about include
uh Nansteel, um Peter Curry as well. Um
so so many other people.
>> They took eggs and semen from many
people
>> and then they show them the children
>> and that that happened to us.
>> Yeah. They showed us, they showed Ann
and I a baby and we were going, we're
going to dinner and uh the three of us
and Andrew was probably about 8, nine
maybe. And uh we're going to dinner. We
go down into the garage in the cabin,
get in the car
and backing out
and we're going up the road and we're
suddenly I realize we're late. You know,
we left with plenty of time, but now
we're not we might not make our
reservation. In other words, we'd had
missing time. And I found that we were
all talking about babies, a baby. And I
have a vague memory, and so did Dan. We
never brought this up, of course, with
our little boy, of holding a baby. At
the time, I didn't know anything about
the fact that people had
were shown children and stuff, but I
think that that might have been ours.
mine. Anyway,
>> what's your best guess as to what
they're doing with these children?
I've had so many
worries about this, Chris.
I want to
know.
And they could be anything. They could
be having extraordinary lives,
wonderful, rich lives. They could be
watching over us. They could be turn out
to be there when we die and we leave our
bodies. It could be that our children
that we had with them are going to
conduct us into the next life.
It could be that they were devoured or
that their souls were they were raised
like farm animals and harvested somehow.
It could be anything. That's the agony
of it. You don't know.
And
it's just it's a hor it's a hard part of
this thing. I live with this all the
time. I pray for my kids, my whoever
they are and however many because you
know one you know a little bit of semen
can go a long way. A a woman might lose
an egg every you know eggs you know 10
or 15 eggs over the years but a guy
could have hundreds of children out of
one one vial of semen. And I remember
very well they took it away in a little
gold vial. It was shaped like this gold
color. And that was obviously
they were excited. And this little being
ran off with it like it was a treasure.
And I I think that that gestalt that way
it made me feel that they were thinking
of it was that you know this was
something they wanted and needed very
badly.
And God Chris there are so many books
and so many conclusions about what that
may mean. But I do know this. They
obviously want us around or they
wouldn't they wouldn't be taking this
from us. They need us from something for
some reason.
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, like you
said, there's a lot of conclusions to
draw there.
>> Yep.
>> Many from,
you know, just their their perhaps their
own population dying out somehow due to,
you know, whatever radiation or what
have you. Uh, we're seeing sperm count
being lowered in males as quick as 1%
per year since the 1980s,
>> right?
um you know harvesting that now would be
imperative.
>> Actually harvesting it prior to the
1980s right around the 1980s would have
been imperative.
>> Well that was when this the abduction
started in the 1960s in in large numbers
and peaked in the in the late 70s and
drifted off through the 80s and by 1990
they were pretty much gone.
>> Yeah. There's um you know Dr. Michael
Masters has a really interesting take on
this with his uh how does he call it?
Extra tempestrial model.
>> Yeah.
>> Um the idea that our population, you
know, if you're going to take a sample
for genetics, for instance, you would
want to make sure the sample is as
varied as possible, right? Many
variances so then you can have the best
possible sample. Well, we were never
more varied than in and around the 1960s
in our entire history. There were uh
mixed races. There were like people
traveling, having babies with people
from different cultures. That's right.
We were extremely varied at that pocket
and then our sperm count started
dropping. So there is a it feels like
there is a small pocket there. If you
were traveling in time or
interdimensionally or from across a
galaxy, that would have been
>> the time.
>> That would have been the time.
>> The time. Exactly. And that obviously
whoever did it knows that. And you know
if there's another thing let's talk
about time travel a little bit because
I've also thought about that a lot.
>> Um I've had an experience of this. So
even though
in my understanding of science I can't
see where time as we know it even
exists.
In other words, time is something we put
on uh uh uh the the the the changes that
we perceive. We call that time and we
measure it.
At the same time, I had an experience of
going back in time at one point. And it
was very physical.
So could it be that
in the future
they are
us and they are
they've run out of
>> good genes because of maybe pollution,
atomic war, all kinds of different
things could have happened say
>> and [clears throat] microplastics
>> micro thousand years 2,000 years and we
are virtually in fact alone at least in
the univer. universe and it's a big
place but it's not so big that we can be
in contact with anyone else. What would
you need to do to come back to the past?
Well, first of all, you would need to be
able to travel back into a certain kind
of distance.
Uh and but the other thing that would
happen is something called the
grandfather paradox would kick in and
you would have a very limited amount of
things number of things you could do in
the past without changing the present
unless you could deceive the grandfather
paradox. And what if you could deceive
the grandfather par paradox, trick it by
creating something that didn't exist at
all in the past. In other words, the
aliens aren't aliens at all. They are
something that was created by humanity
in the future to give us them more
freedom of action in the present.
>> That's interesting.
>> Yeah. So maybe that's an explanation for
it. Now I'll tell you the story of time
travel that I experienced if I
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> Uh this happened in March of 1983
and it's important to understand that
this is before anything any of the
communion stuff. I was far from the UFO
alien world at that time. That was some
of no interest to me whatsoever.
>> And I yeah I hadn't thought about that
since I was 12 years old. And uh I'm
walking down
uh Bleecker not Bleecker Street uh uh
LaGuardia Place. We lived at 347 uh I
think that's best. We lived at uh on G
LaGuardia Place just immediately north
of Bleecker 520 LaGuardia Place was
called and there's a beautiful park
there by the way if anyone ever wants to
go. It's called LaGuardia Park and it's
it wasn't there then. It was just mud.
And one day Anne looked out of our
windows and she said, you know, I'm
going to turn that into a park. And I
thought, oh my god, and being Ann, that
means I'm going to be out there with
shovels. And I I said, well, how are you
going to do that? And she says, don't
nothing to do with you. I'll do it. And
before I knew it, millions of dollars
had been raised. And now there's this
beautiful park there. And there's
there's a beautiful statue of Maril
LaGuardia in it and a plaque under his
under the statue with all the amazing
fancy people that for however she did it
and got involved and also the name of
Whitley and Anne Strieber as the
creators of the among the creators of
the park only I said to her when they
were making that plaque I said Annie you
shouldn't put my name on there. She said
no no you you should be on there. You
you said you said yes to it. So anyway,
uh, okay. I'm on the corner of Bleecker
of uh, Laguardia Place and West Halston
Street. It's a sort of busy March
morning. I'm going to the bank. It's a
Saturday morning to get some money for
because this is before, you know, cash
machines. you had to go from the tellers
>> and um the light is is just about to
it's it's red. It's just the don't walk
sign is red and I hear I do not see I
hear what sounds like something big and
really creaky going right past in front
of me right on the street like right a
few feet in front of me and it turns
onto Lagoria place and I'm automatically
I turn with it because you know I'm the
sound is loud it's a lot of noise and as
it I turn I see a big wagon that's being
pulled by big greyh horses and it's got
uh jars on it and you can hear sloshing
and you can smell pickles and it's a
pickle a wagon this big wagon with
pickles and a guy way up on top of it in
a black apron and I'm thinking what it
must be a parade and I thought where
yeah I was just totally disoriented I
mean you can imagine
And so I look back to see the rest of
the parade and instead I see there's
right like this close to me there's a
woman about this tall who is uh totally
dressed in black and she shries away
from me and goes skit skittering away
from me and then I turn back as I hear a
voice and as I'm turning back I turn
this way to toward the voice and it's a
man across Ross the street the at that
time there were two condos there. There
are no condos. There's a row of
brownstones
and the man is there and he's in a derby
and he's very intense expression on his
face and he is calling to me or saying
something I can't quite hear
and
I'm thinking I'm becoming a little
oriented. I'm thinking I'm I'm back in
time. This is the past. And I look
around and I think I've got to prove
this. And I'm looking around. I see a
group of horsemen in beautiful with
thoroughbred horses and the red riding
clothes, the fancy clothes coming up
West Broadway and their carriages and it
the air is sort of brown. It smells
different. It smells like coal smoke
actually. And you know, I'm getting very
amazed and excited now because boy, I
mean, how extraordinary is this? And I'm
see some newspaper in the gutter. And I
think to myself, I'm going to get that
newspaper because I'll find the date on
it. And I lean over to pick it up. And
when I lean over, what feels like
ice water goes through the center of my
body and I experience
unbelievable loneliness.
Like it is so lonely that if I stayed
that lonely, that feeling of loneliness
kept in my mind for long, I would think
I would have gone mad. And I just
freeze. I stop.
And gradually
our world comes back.
And the light which said don't walk is
now flashing which means that it went
through the walk cycle and it's
flashing. So I've been in there for
about a minute
and now it's back to this time. But is
it really this time? I'm not sure. It
looks like the normal world, but there's
no way I'm going to the bank now. I
turned around and ran home for fear that
I would was not back in this time. But
what if I was 2 days earlier, 2 days
late? What had happened to me? I go
upstairs and everything is normal. Ann
says, "Where's the money?" I said, "Oh,
I forgot it." She said, "Well, what did
you do?" I said, "I'll go back out and
get it." So, I went back out and got the
money.
I tell her the story eventually and she
listens to it and you know we're not
into these weird stories at that point
so she's sort of
>> okay and um
then
as time passes
it it sort of it really bugs me and
finally we decide let's go. I said to
her, I finally said to her, "If it ever
happens again, if I'm able to, I'll put
a classified ad in the journal, New York
Journal, or one of those papers that
existed then." So, we decide to go up to
the New York Public Library and look
through the microfilm of all those old
newspapers from the 19th late 19th
century, which is what which is when it
was. It was sometime in there. And we do
that and we don't find any, oh, there's
such so cute. There's all these
classifides that say, "Saw you on a
Broadway stage, right? Such and such.
You smiled at me." And stuff and it's
really wonderful.
>> Misconnections.
>> Yeah. Exactly. It's really cool. But we
never see anything that says I am
trapped in time or [laughter] anything
like that.
>> Did you imagine?
>> Yeah. So, uh, now fast forward to
recently about three years ago. I'm
there and I discover a sign on the
little now big wild garden. Not the not
ants garden, but this is a block away.
It's a a wild garden. It's purposely
been wilded. And it is a garden where
nothing is ever touched. And there's a
sign on it. It called it's called the
time garden.
And I think to myself, what is going on
here?
>> Ain't that time t i m e?
>> Yeah. T i m e. Yeah. Because the idea
being that, you know, nothing will be
touched in here and so it'll be frozen
in time.
>> Oh,
>> isn't that cool? It's so wild. But then
it gets even wilder when I'm talking
about this maybe on Dreamland actually.
I'm I think it was on my show and uh I
someone writes me and say says, "Do you
know what was across the street from
where that happened to you when it
happened?
It was Nicola Tesla's lab."
And I think to myself, what if that was
Tesla standing there trying to figure
try what if he was doing experiments
with time in the past?
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Yeah. There's no record of him doing
experiments with time, but his his lab
was right in that immediate area. That
that is correct.
>> If anyone was able to time travel, it
was that man.
>> Yeah. And maybe he drew me back in time
and he was trying to contact me. Maybe
that was what he was yelling.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Isn't that amazing?
>> Yeah, it is very amazing. You hear about
these time slips. I've been looking into
them quite recently actually about
especially in England. There seem to be
a lot of them and I don't know if that's
because there's more precedent in
England with like, you know, history.
Um,
>> it's a very weird place. That's why.
>> Yeah. But there are people who report in
the same area turning a corner and just
like you seeing carriages and seeing
>> old shops and wondering what the heck is
going on and as soon as they take a few
steps, whoosh, it's back to normal.
>> Yeah. Well, that's what happened to me.
>> Mhm.
>> So, you know, we can conclude that that
happens sometimes.
>> It feels like it does. Yeah. I'm
genuinely interested about those things.
And man, what I wouldn't give to be able
to explore one of those.
>> Yeah. But we all have our dreams. You
know what I want to do? My dream is two
things. Get out of my body on my own
because it's I know it's possible and I
would like to do it myself and go where
I want to go and do what I want to do.
Number two, I know levitation is real
and it is possible and I want to do
that. You know, there's a great book uh
called The Flu
>> by a Spanish writer Carlos er Carlos
Nmire is his name and
it's about all of the medieval
uh
>> levitation
>> levitation levitators
>> and he never says they flew. He he
that's the title but he never in the
book anywhere does he claim that. He
just lays out the facts. And the thing
that's fascinating about it is not only
were there thousands of witnesses to
these events, they were studied by the
Inquisition very carefully. And there
are massive numbers of Inquisitorial
investigations into these levitations.
And the reason being that the
Inquisition was interested because if
they thought it was demons, then they
had they they they were going to
definitely fire you up. [laughter] So So
these people who flew,
>> you didn't you didn't make a big deal of
that. Advertise it. Exactly. Unless you
were sure. And usually it was because
other people saw it.
>> And like uh Joseph of Certino Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Was seen by even the pope,
>> floating priest or what have you.
>> Yeah. Well, he levitated in front of the
pope and in a room full of people and
and the pope at that time said if he
dies before I do, I am going to make him
a saint and unfortunately that is it
happened the opposite way. There's
another wonderful story about a lady
called Mary of Agreeda uh when uh uh
Diana Pulka talks about this and uh she
was in a convent and she used to
levitate
and she was not conscious when she
>> she billocated as well, didn't she?
>> She billocated to New Mexico. That's
right. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Across the ocean,
>> right? But she also levitated and the
other nuns took to
moving her out. You could apparently you
could literally blow on her and you know
she'd got blow away like a balloon
[laughter] in the like a helium balloon
and uh she would uh they would get her
out into the courtyard and people would
pay to come in and blow her on her and
move her around the courtyard. And when
she found out about this, she was pissed
off because, you know, she was being
made a spectacle of and stuff. And she
eventually was able to get God to stop
her levitating. And most of them didn't
want to levitate very much. I want to,
though.
>> No, I would love to. As a magician, you
know, I' I'm very familiar with
techniques in the illusion of
levitation, obviously. Yes.
>> And I've I've pretty much I know them
all. You know, I've seen
friends of mine create some of the most
incredible moments of levitation that
have ever been captured on video. And I
know how it's done. You know, I think of
Xavier Mortimer who in the middle of a
park, right? No, nothing overhead, just
levitates and has a jump rope and uses
the jump rope as well. So now he's
eliminating multiple methods here. And
uh still there is a method at play and
there's trickery.
foot. But you know, um that's I I have a
limitation for that stuff in my own mind
because of my, you know, my my knowledge
in deception. And
>> I I know that the further I go back in
time, the easier people are to fool as
well, right? Um you know,
>> I wonder if that's the case then. Could
it be that these people were all fooling
thousands of witnesses? It's it's not
unlikely obviously is that you know
>> well it's not impossible. It might be
unlikely but it's the reason it might be
unlikely is that the stakes are so high
for them
>> because they could get into terrible
trouble with the Inquisition.
>> Yeah. Sure. I'm I'm I'm sure there is
definitely risk there and and cause not
to divulge that or not to even, you
know, um try and trick someone. But
there probably is an equal and opposite
reason to to want to do it, you know,
and
>> maybe we just were unaware of it.
>> I'd love to do it.
>> I would too. I would too.
>> One story I heard of from a man, a
lovely guy called Paul Eno who has
passed away. He was
he got into this whole paranormal stuff
and wrote some books and but before that
he was a novice priest and he
uh ended up as the assistant to the uh
dasis and exorcist.
They were called to a
mental institution in which there was a
young 17-year-old girl. The family was
desperate because she was
diagnosed as schizophrenic and she was a
drug addict as well and of course she
was a young girl and they were desperate
to get her
well. And nothing was helping and so
they had asked the exor for the exorcist
in hopes that by some miracle that would
help. So the exorcist goes in to this
room where the girl is sitting in a
wheelchair.
Paul is with him. There's a psychiatrist
uh and three
uh uh assistants, three
>> attendees.
>> Attendees. Yeah. In the room as well. So
all these people are there. The exorcist
is doing his thing. And suddenly, still
in a sitting position, she rises up out
of the chair and oh, there were two
assistants, Paul and one other guy. Two,
the exorcist had two assistants, Paul
and another guy. And she's like floating
in the air, still in a sitting position.
They all can see it. [snorts] And the
exorcist simply says to Paul, "Push her
down into the chair."
And he pushes her down into the chair
again. and he said, "I could feel an
energy, a sort of mild electricity
coming into my hand." And that's
reported in a few of the cases in the
medieval era as well. And I thought to
myself often that if this is real, then
that feeling, that sense of electricity,
that whatever that is, is the key to a
lot of things that we don't understand.
And I went through many years, it's
tailed off recently, of where I would
feel that same electricity touching me
in different places on my body. And when
people were confronting found themselves
face to face with the visitors at the
cabin, if the visitors touched them,
that electricity would go through their
bodies.
>> Perhaps how they were able to levitate
them through the walls and through
>> Yeah, exactly. I think it's I think it's
there's some there's an energy that we
don't understand.
>> It's not magic.
>> It's real. It's not supernatural,
>> but it feels that way because we don't
understand it.
>> Yeah, I would I would have to concede to
that as well because you know the amount
of cases that report these levitations
and this technology, it's something
obviously we don't understand. Probably
something to do with electromagnet
magnetic forces.
>> Exactly. or something akin to that that
that looks that way
>> that feels
>> behaves in the same manner but isn't
quite gravity.
>> Um
>> you know it's it's I think of it as an
earth energy. It's something to do with
the planet.
>> And there's a book, a very very strange
novel called
uh All in Everything: Bill Zabub's Tales
to his grandson by a writer and a a uh a
seer, a a master really called Gagief.
um a he is from Armenia and he created
this thing called the Gchief Foundation
but the centerpiece of this book and
it's a kind of dedactic novel it's
almost unreadable by the way I've never
read the whole thing and of course
picked it up and read it in two weeks
and I mean she's you take a look at this
thing you'll understand when I say Anne
was really smart that she could read
that in two weeks and understand it
>> anyway He has in it this thing these
this demon or whatever it is uh creates
something called the organ conduffer
that severs us from this energy. It's
condundalini buffer and we're severed
from that energy. It's not we weren't
always. And I think if you look into the
past and you see these incredibly
mysterious impossible ruins like the
platform at Bbeck or the fantastic
immensity
of some of the and and and precision
some so many different very ancient
ruins around the world uh possess the
pyramids, the Saka in Peru uh or the
750,000
basaltt logs that make up the artificial
islands of Nan Madal in the Carolina
islands in the Pacific. We can't do any
of that anymore. or Ed Lee Scalman who
created
>> Carl Castle.
>> Carl Castle somehow using techniques
that he said he had learned in Lithuania
from and that they were ancient Egyptian
magic.
>> He said he mastered the uh the
techniques of the ancient Egyptians.
>> Exactly. And all of that you put all of
that together and you think to yourself,
maybe chief was right. Maybe we lost
something. Maybe what we really are is
something we've forgotten and lost is
we've been severed from that energy. And
then you circle back to NHI and we were
talking earlier. Are they good guys or
bad guys?
>> Are there beings here trying to exploit
us because we've kind of gone blind?
>> And are there other beings here trying
to help us reconnect with this energy?
>> Mhm. Maybe that's what it's all about.
>> Maybe or maybe uh yeah, maybe they want
that severance for whatever personal
gain.
>> Some some may want it and some may want
to help us because it's too it's too
mixed to bag to say it's good guys or
bad guys. It's both.
>> Absolutely. And I think a lot of the
>> you know I don't think there is a binary
system to good and bad. I don't think
there is I don't think there's such
thing as good and bad. I think it's
>> I'm I'm I'm a definite gray area and I
think the grays are called the grays for
a reason for a reason. Yeah, it's um
well there are no opposites, just
varying degrees of the same thing,
>> right?
>> Um okay, we have a question here from
Tess. Thank you, by the way, for all
that. That was amazing.
Tess asks, "You've discussed utilizing
your implant as a research tool. What
has been your most significant
revelation?"
Ah,
you know that's that can't be answered
as a simple answer that my most
significant revelation was this.
the I think the most significant
revelation was understanding how to use
it, how to do that. And uh
you know I wrote a book
uh called In Hitler's House. I started
it right after Annie passed away because
I wasn't able to write anything in this
subject and I and I'm interested in
history and in you know World War II
history in particular. It's one of my
interests. Would you like my water by
the way?
>> Yeah, I would.
>> Here [laughter] you have mine. I'm
drinking out of this thing anyways.
>> Okay. So,
I learned to use the implant writing
that book and I guess the s most
significant revelation was
learning how first after she passed away
I is when I begun to see the slit. All
those years from 1989 until late 2015,
it just was there. It didn't do
anything. Then in 2013,
2014, no, no, it was early 2015, excuse
me. She begins to
uh get me to memorize a certain poem
called Song of the Wandering Angus,
which has the lines in it when white
moths were on the wing and the mothlike
stars were flickering out. This leads to
my realization through a whole sequence
of events, including the fact that I
realized that the the her favorite short
story of mine was called the White
Moths. And she this white moth starts
appearing in front of the camera uh at
at the house that she's created was
creating an avatar for herself. The
white moth is what that woman really
was. I don't know, but she sure knew a
lot about life and death. because I
think she's the only person who's ever
intentionally created an avatar for
herself to to pres to show her presence
in this world. Anyway,
then at some point the slits opened up
and words are racing through it and I'm
trying to figure out what's going on. At
one point it slows down and it says it's
me an and the words start up again very
fast. Eventually,
and this is the most significant
breakthrough, I find out if I take my
mind, my thinking out of my head and
just relax and let it let the words
race,
they will tell me what I need to know
without
my looking for it. So I'm writing this
book and it's from the viewpoint of
someone who was there with Hitler
before and during the World War. So it's
got to be the verilitude has to be
perfect. You know, it's not just, you
know, a historical novel. You got to
know what kind of what kind of suits
they wore, what kind of things they ate,
what kind of pens they used, what their
bed lining bill felt like, how they what
they bathed with, all of that what what
kind of toothpaste they used. All of
that stuff and all of those details keep
dropping into my head. Some of them just
drop into it. Some of sometimes I am
given an idea of how to Google it.
Sometimes
I just have to let a certain question go
like I needed something some details
about Hitler's personal life like it
what he you know how often did he brush
his teeth? Where did he sleep? What was
it like? Uh what did he eat? And
somehow or another I end up on the
German language Google. I don't know how
I got there suddenly and I get it Google
translate the page and in it is a p on
the page that I'm on is a story about a
a uh one of Hitler's valet who's who
wrote a book about him about his
experiences Hitler's valet. So, I go on
the German Amazon and I find the book.
It's in German. It's never been
translated into English. I buy it. It
comes couple weeks later. And I'm
looking at it and I think, "This is
gold, but I don't I can't read German."
And I mention it at a group of f with a
group of friends. And one of the people
says, "Oh, I'm from Germany. I speak
German. I'll read it. I'll translate it
for you.
And so I get every detail about Hitler's
brand of toothpaste and everything.
That's how that's how the implant works.
It's not like it it does not tell me
I've asked it for things like uh
anti-gravity and sure
>> physics stuff and so forth. and it will
extrapolate from things I already know
or or or or push me in right directions,
but it won't give me original ideas that
I don't already have some connection to.
>> It's almost like a synchronicity engine.
>> Yeah, that would be that it's one level
of it is definitely that.
>> Yeah. Wow.
>> It's very cool to use. The other the
other thing is like in this
>> it's on now and in this
>> conversation you notice I've never
>> lost a name or anything like that as
we've gone through the conversation
because the implant like I don't I I not
necessarily name remember the name of
Robert Sarbacher when we're not talking
when the implant's not on but when it is
on no problem.
Do you often make sure it is on before
uh is there any way of engaging it?
>> Uh yeah
>> to go on and off or does it turn on when
you're about to go on?
>> Oh no, it'll it if if it it's something
that the implant considers important,
whoever's on the other side of it, it
it'll turn on like the morning before.
It turned on today early and then when
you you called me up and told me we were
going to be starting late, it turned off
>> and I thought, "Oh god, now if it
doesn't turn on again, what'll I do?
I'll be an idiot in there.
>> Well, I'm flattered. I'm flattered.
>> No, it turned back on again while we
were riding in the car. And I can feel
it when it turns on. It gets hot.
>> Wow.
>> And then it at once, you know, there was
a wonderful guy at Southwest Research
called Bill Malow. He was the head of
material science. And he was the one who
did the implant research that Roger Lear
did there.
>> He wasn't allowed to put anything on
Southwest Research stationary, but he
didn't care. He was he was one of the
founders of it and so he did what he
wanted and um uh the implant once turned
on in his office. We were we were
talking about it. I was telling him
about it and telling him the story and
he said, "My god, your ear is bright
red."
>> Mhm.
>> And I felt it was hot and I said, "It's
turned on, Bill." He said, "Let's go to
the signals lab right now." And we ran
across the campus to the signals lab.
And so I sat in the signals lab and
these two guys were in there and they
were working uh trying to acquire a
signal. And after a while they said they
were finished.
And I said to Bill, "Well, did can you
find out from them what they found, if
anything?" He said, "No, I can't because
the lab's classified."
I thought, "This is fairly annoying, but
you know, what could I do?"
>> Yeah.
>> 20 years pass. I'm signing books at the
book festival in San Antonio,
and two guys walk up to me and they say,
"We just want you to know that the
signal that was found coming from your
implant is under study to this day. It
is one of the strangest and most complex
signals that we have ever discovered.
And then they turn around and walk out.
>> Wow.
>> I think that's so cool. I love it.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's
>> Yeah, it's fabulous. I
>> I would love a follow-up.
>> Listen, I have to tell you this. One of
the great frustrations is why just me?
>> Yeah.
>> Why some horror novelist who's smart
enough, but I'm not Stephen Hawking?
>> Mhm. are or any of those guys. Why don't
they get them? Why don't our best minds
get them? Not just me.
>> Yeah. Who says they don't have them,
though?
>> Well, yeah, that's true. I I that I
hadn't thought of that.
>> Mhm.
>> Maybe they don't even know they have
them, right?
>> Maybe they're geniuses because they have
them.
>> Yeah. Attended ones.
>> Yeah.
>> Got one more here.
This is this is one I think that uh
might be on a lot of people's minds as
we move closer to next year.
>> Do you believe the threat of a major
coronal mass ejection is still active by
Alan Barker?
>> Absolutely. Yeah, there is definitely a
threat of a major coronal mass ejection.
Uh, our star is a yellow dwarf
and they do have a bad habit of bursting
out with these big burps every once in a
while. We have had our star has
you find in the geological record
evidence of much bigger coronal mass
ejections than the the uh Carrington uh
event of 1853.
Um, see that popped in. You notice a
little stop in my voice? That was the
implant giving me the information, the
dates. Um, and uh, so we are always at
risk of that. And the fact that the sun
has been acting strangely for the past
few years now is, I think, a warning
sign. I wrote a little book years ago
called Solar Flares. It's still actually
available online uh on um as a it's a it
was an ebook and it sold like four
copies cuz in a time when ebooks were
very new but it's still sitting there
somewhere and it's a it shows it goes
into detail about what could happen and
it could be catastrophic beyond belief.
We could be in a situation where we lose
well first we we necessarily lose the
internet but we we'd lose satellites
because the internet has been hardened
against this. What we the most serious
loss would be uh power because there are
these huge transformers
that we don't have replacements for or
we have a few replacements but if they
all blew like in the United States we
would be with no power for years
and if you look at the what that would
do it causes a decline in the population
of massive proportions. ions. So, it's
an extremely dangerous situation. And of
course, most of the power companies are
they're interested in, you know, the the
the fatal threemonth measurement in in
in in capitalism, which is management
cares about the next finance report 3
months from now. They do not care about
the company 5 years from now or the
world 10 years from now or anything like
that. That's why when you have these all
these fires and and it always turn half
the time it turns out or more than half
the time to have been power lines that
they did not prepare for winds and and
they spark and they cause these huge
fires because they didn't want to spend
the money. You know, every company is
pennywise and pound foolish except the
most forward-looking ones. And you a
power company is almost always going to
be pennywise and pound pound foolish. So
they have not built enough backup
transformers nor have they created a
situation where they can be easily
reconnected.
>> Other countries have much better
hardening. The UK and the EU do.
>> China probably.
>> I don't know about China. I I I I
logically yes, but we're going to be
devastated almost certainly.
>> Do you think there is some mass event
that will occur next year? You know,
there's a lot of talk about 2027. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, supposedly John Ramirez, the
CIA guy, said something about that.
>> He was a proponent of it, but also I had
him on here and I asked him about it and
he said, "No, I just repeated what
someone else said."
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's what he told me on my
show, too.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, he Yeah. But who said it? I
mean, if you look back, you can't find
out exact where it started. It's one of
those things that sort of bubbled up.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, but it seems to be timely as well.
If you look at the critical mass of all
of these different,
>> you know, things, whether it's AI, UAP,
financial instability, uh, you know,
>> oh, listen,
>> environmental collapse, all this stuff.
>> The the private credit crunch
>> Mhm.
>> is a major financial problem that's
going to be coming our way very soon.
>> Yeah.
>> And that that that is definitely an
issue. But the other thing is that uh
when you
think about the possibilities that of
you know speaking of critical mass, what
if the critical mass is what we talked
about a little bit earlier?
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> Of us in our minds becoming so convinced
that the aliens are real that they come
in through the door of the mind from
another dimension. and that happens in
2027, it would be about the right time,
wouldn't it?
>> And probably far better than some of the
alternatives that we're currently
facing, including nuclear destruction.
[laughter]
>> Well, yeah. Now, that's another possib
thing. You know, one of the things that
I never ever talk predictions, but I do
get things. Mhm.
>> And we're far enough along into this one
that I feel comfortable talking about it
that now it's about 9 months ago, maybe
8 n maybe 10 months ago, I received
during one of the 3:00 a.m.
conversations in the implant that there
was a significant danger that a war with
Iran would evolve into a nuclear
conflict worldwide.
Not because anyone wanted it to, but
because it would happen like World War I
happened where they they couldn't stop
going to war once they started.
And uh
now we've gone to war with Iran. We're
at war with Iran. And I I don't see the
I don't see how that would happen. In
other words, I thought of it at the time
as more a warning than a prediction. And
I think that may have been what it is.
But right now, I don't see the how the
war in Iran uh could possibly end in a
nuclear conflict, a worldwide nuclear
conflict. But then again, on August the
1st,
20 uh 1914,
everyone thought, well, there's some
trouble in the Balkans. On September the
1st, the entire world was unexpectedly
at war.
>> Yep. [laughter]
>> Yeah. What else can you say?
>> The quickening,
>> right? Um Whitley, it's been an absolute
pleasure once again discussing all of
this with you. Whether it's, you know,
the visitors, whether it's time travel
or whether it's the fate of the world,
it always seems like we're having an
interesting conversation. So, I
appreciate your time and I appreciate
you coming out here and discussing this
with me. Um, is there anything you'd
like to leave my audience with? Is there
anywhere you'd like to any direction
you'd like to point them to? Just feel
free to do that.
>> Sure. Okay. Now is my chance to do that.
Okay. I wrote Transformation 2026
in order so that people could
see how it was when the grace came into
the life of a family. We lived it. It
was
not impossible at all. It was quite
wonderful in many respects and
incredibly cool. We had some of the best
house parties you could imagine because
we could actually say to people, "Well,
you want to meet aliens? Come on up to
the cabin." And it actually would
happen. Uh, and the book's full of all
kinds of insights about what that will
be like. So, it's there because I think
that might happen to a lot of people.
And you can grab that book and look at
it and think, well, they lived through
it and it turned out to be pretty cool.
That's And also, my show is Dreamland.
My website, Unknown Country, has got a
brand new look that just went up
yesterday, last week, and uh I'm here.
I'm definitely doing this.
>> Well, I'll leave all those links below
for my audience. Thank you again so
much, Whitley.
>> Thank you. Always a pleasure, Chris.
Heat. Heat.