Today's guest is an expert on cover-ups, secret histories, and conspiracy theories that might
just be true. But what's more disturbing about the CIA is really the pattern. The laws don't
really apply to us. We'll do it until we get caught. Then we'll just do it quieter. Then
we'll destroy the evidence and keep doing it. A boy from the Bronx, he grew up listening to his
cop father's overnight radio, where he first heard stories of alien abductions and the paranormal.
I just know something came to my room at night. I saw lots of lights, and now I have a bump under
my skin that my doctors don't know what's in there. But after spending 20 years
writing the secret software that the U.S. Congress runs on, he began documenting the world of unsolved
mysteries, growing his channel to 6 million subscribers with the help of his cartoon fish.
Some of these folks are definitely being monitored. I doubt I am. I don't think anyone cares about
the guy with the fish, but the NSA coordinates with all the mobile providers, so we're being
watched every second. And this episode will unveil the conspiracies he failed to debunk,
expose the ones he believes now but can't quite yet prove. In question, if everything he's saying
is true, then what are the things even he is too afraid to say?
Do you think the government ever creates fake conspiracy theories?
All the time.
To confuse people.
Yes.
I think a lot of what we're seeing in disclosure is just a distraction.
If UFOs are real, and I'm pretty sure they are, it might have something to do with
AJ Gentile.
Welcome to the Jack Neal podcast.
That's an intimidating intro.
Okay.
Good to be happy to be here.
Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time, man.
Yeah.
A good place to start here.
AJ, on your show, the Y files, you spend the first two thirds of your episode telling
a story like it's true.
they're completely debunking it. I want to talk to you about the stories you couldn't debunk,
the ones you think could be true, and the ones that you know are nothing but true.
In 2007, the CIA was forced to declassify 700-page file of its own crimes. Assassination plots,
spying on journalists, giving Americans hallucinogenic drugs. You covered it and said,
the thing you almost never say. Everything in this episode is true. What do you think is the
disturbing thing that the CIA has admitted to doing?
Probably MK Ultra. MK Ultra, for those who don't know, I think everybody knows
that Congress just reopened hearings on MK Ultra is the CIA giving hallucinogenic drugs
like LSD to people who didn't know they were being drugged. They would give it to business
men at brothels and like videotape what was going on and all kinds of people. That one
is disturbing because it thought
all those CIA programs, a lot of it's about just American power, which I get it, I'm American.
But MKUltra was about treating people as disposable. I mean, it's even in the documents that they
call them expendables. That's kind of gross. And nobody signed up for any of that. But what's
more disturbing about the CIA is really the pattern. Sort of a pattern of the laws don't really
apply to us. We'll do it until we get caught. Then we'll just do it quieter. Then
we'll destroy the evidence and keep doing it.
MK Ultra specifically, like what do you think is a specific part of that story, those documents
that you don't hear a lot of people talking about that you've found particularly captivating?
I don't think it's covered enough that most of the documents were destroyed.
But when I think it was probably started during the church hearings, which would be like 73, 74,
where Sidney Gottlieb, who's he's known as like the dark sorcerer of the CIA, he ran MK Ultra,
50 sub-projects across 80 universities and 12 corporations.
He was a pretty powerful guy.
He had all those documents destroyed and never answered for any of it.
He retired peacefully.
He went to some rural area and ended up breeding goats and had a nice retirement and pension
that we paid for.
And, you know, he should have died in prison.
And what do you suspect that they were trying to find?
Because I don't think a lot of people touch on that part.
They propose theories.
But yeah.
a few different things. Because, like I said, there's like 150 to 180 sub-projects. So you have,
it was really about using chemicals to see if we can influence human behavior. So that you'd have
maybe a sleeper assassin that if you can trigger him to kill somebody, maybe even against his will,
so that would also go into mind control. But there's also manipulation and interrogation.
Like, what kind of drugs make people open up and just tell the truth?
lie. You know, if you can give an agent a drug where he doesn't even know he's lying, he's just
telling like if he's being interrogated, that's that's good stuff. So there's really all those
different avenues of just trying to control human consciousness through chemicals.
Right. Of every cron the CIA is admitted to in writing, which one do you think
should scare Americans today? A lot of the bio warfare stuff is pretty scary.
things like Operation Sea Spray
where they just put a bunch of back
bacteria all over San Francisco just to see what happened. They did the same thing in the New York
subways just to what would happen. Actually, the CIA officer who ran C-spray ended up, it was Frank
Olson ended up on a city sidewalk in New York. He fell from a 10-story window. That was not that
big. I don't know if you know his story. But yeah, it's working for the CIA. Frank Olson was
a scientist specialized in biowarfare, aerosol sprays was his deal. And so he was part of
from military to civilian CIA.
He's working for Sidney Gottlieb eventually
and part of the MKUltra program.
And he started to have kind of a crisis of consciousness.
He just didn't want to do this anymore.
So he checks in with Gottliebe and his supervisors
and they say, you know, maybe you just need to break.
You know, you're stressed out.
You come out to the cabin.
The CIA had like this cabin out in the woods
where they call women and all do all kinds of crazy stuff.
So they end up dosing, Frank, with LSD and some other stuff.
and he starts to get really paranoid it's like he's he's calling his wife like they're watching
me they're following me everybody's freaking out and he calls his handlers at the cia and they said
you know come see a therapist we have a psychiatrist who can help you who's also mk ultra doctor
they go to new york this is 1953 and they go up to a room uh on the 10th floor of a hotel and frank
he but we do have a telephone operator who in those days you would like call down like hey can i get
this number and they would kind of patch you through you've seen that like in the movies well the
operators could hear the calls when you do that so she's like uh he called somebody and said yeah
he's gone and the other guy said oh that's too bad and then he called the police and they show up
and he's in the bathroom he's like oh what happened but it looks like frank olson maybe had
had blood force trauma before.
He had no glass on him.
The window was tiny.
Like he would have had to run out of the hotel, like Superman would dive out of there.
It's really, it's almost impossible.
The CIA has never acknowledged any of this.
But the family, for like 20 years, his kids were like in their 20s and 30s.
They were like, we want to know what really happened to dad.
They didn't get a straight answer.
But in 1977, President Gerald Ford gave them $750,000 in money.
in exchange for an NDA and to me that that tells the story like why would you
pay somebody right for asking what happened to dad and this guy he just to
clarify he was he like threatening to whistleblow on some information or like
what was the nope he just didn't want to he didn't wanna dose people anymore he
just did want to give people drugs anymore against their will that's all it
was now I'm not calling him a hero because he was a pretty bad dude you know
If you create bio weapons, which
are illegal, they're illegal. You can't create bio-warfare. That's been illegal since the
20s, but he was doing it. So not everybody, there's not a lot of victims there from my
perspective. I go to the CIA pretty hard.
Who invented the term conspiracy theory?
Well, the conspiracy theory is that the CIA invented it, which is pretty, that it's just kind of,
it's a meta, very funny, because there's a 1967 memo where the CIA uses conspiracy
theory. And it was a way to, when they were doing the JFK investigations, the CIA is like,
anyone who questions the official narrative, call them a conspiracy theorist and just try
to debunk them and make, it just marginalized them. But the phrase goes back to like the
1860s. I think it first showed up in the New York Times in like 1863, something like that,
where people thought maybe the British were helping the Confederates, which I think they might
have been. And someone did a letter to the editor and said, oh, those are just conspiracy
theories. And then it showed up the Oxford Dictionary, I think in 1916.
So it's been around a while.
But they might have popularized the term.
The CIA definitely brought it to mainstream.
Do you think conspiracy theories themselves are weaponized?
I think they can be.
You know, if you use the theory to marginalize somebody,
that's weaponizing it.
You know whether it's COVID,
if you have an alternate view of maybe what happened,
you know, how it got out,
they will weaponize that against you.
We saw them do that.
And that comes true.
from the intelligence apparatus.
So I think that's a way to weaponize it
is you just marginalize the person.
It's kind of the same formula
that they do all the time
is you try to debunk them,
then you marginalize them,
then you attack them,
and then you just censor them.
It's just the same form.
And we've seen that going back to
really the Second World War,
definitely during the Cold War,
and then even during COVID.
It's the same thing.
History just repeats.
Right.
I guess more so from the lens of
like propaganda and someone like you want people to go down certain rabbit holes and like I think
I heard a quote from some comedian he said something like 50% of the conspiracy theories
are completely true and then 50 percent of the ones are like to distract from those like do you
see that ever in your research like where did this one come from and like it's fishy all the time
uh what makes it even worse is AI like if you go on to any of the AI platforms and ask about a
they will, the models will literally try to talk you out of it.
They're, they're programmed, well, first of all,
they're trained on data that's, it's all kind of like state approved.
It's, you know, it mainstream media is what they're
trained on, which is state approved, so you've got this narrative.
And if you ask about JFK or COVID or anything like that, it'll,
it'll immediately start just bombarding you with facts.
You can do this right now.
You can go check it out.
And recently, there's been studies on this that, that AI is specifically
trained to try to stop.
misinformation. I put that in quotes because who knows what that even means. So it's harder
than ever to get to the truth because so many people are leaning on AI and that is all
manipulated. I guess do you think the government ever creates fake conspiracy theories? All the
time. To confuse people. All the time. Yes. What's the most prevalent example of that? Probably
UFOs, UIPs, I would think. I think a lot of what we're seeing in disclosures is that
distraction, like muddy the waters.
The government's been doing that with UFOs since they became kind of mainstream in the,
I guess in 47.
So yeah, all the time.
We saw when, before Elon Musk took over Twitter and all the Twitter files came out and you
just saw the FBI and CIA was all involved with like tracking people's accounts and getting
people to be platformed.
Zuckerberg even said it on Brogan, you know, that yeah, they were trying to get us to
throw people off the platform for what they were saying.
But they were doing that.
I mean, I was a creator during that time.
I would slip in COVID jokes, but I had to be very careful.
You know, I'm not Joe Rogan, you know, especially when you're a new creator.
You got like, you could turn off my whole life right now if I say the wrong thing.
I mean you remember when you were doing storytelling, right?
It's like, ah, can I release this?
Right.
It made it, like my old crime channel was, I think at one point, pretty much 50% of the videos were just getting debonitized and it was like flipping a coin.
And then I had a good friend at the time, Mr. Ballen, he was like, Jack, this is how you're
supposed to speak about these things.
I was like oh, okay.
So I know what you mean.
Did the government drive a guy crazy with fake information about UFOs?
They probably, probably quite a few, but you probably talking about probably talking
about Paul Benowitz, right?
The Paul Benowicz story.
Yes, they did.
That that goes back to like the late 70s, early 80s.
Then it was like an engineer.
working out of like just in Albuquerque near Kirtland Air Force Base. He was an engineer,
he ran a company, I think it was something really cool like Thunder Scientific. I had a great name,
but all I really did was humidity monitors. So Paul is, he's working on his shop and it's near
the Air Force base and he sees lights and crazy stuff in the sky over the base. And he just
calls the Air force base and says, here's what I saw. And you guys maybe want to check it out.
You know, like with the drones we saw that that story just went away. So it was like Paul did,
that. And we don't know what they were doing, but it was probably
something classified. So at the time, they tasked Richard Doty with
that was this is AFOSI. So the Air Force Office of Special
Investigations, they task Richard doty with befriending Paul
and telling him, Yeah, maybe it might have been aliens, it might
have been an aliens, Paul. We want to keep this quiet, you know,
all of that. So Paul was now getting wound up. And he starts he's
tuning his radio trying to get signals the aliens start talking to him and he's telling telling
them at the base like they're talking to be communicating with me but actually the NSA rented
a house across the street and they were like interfering with his signal and but Doty kept
winding him up and winding him and just telling him yeah it's aliens man but we got to keep
this quiet till eventually Paul didn't know what was what he was institutionalized a couple
of times and his life was kind of ruined from it and and Doty has become infamous for for
this story and he's still around and now richard doty says oh a lot of that stuff that was i told
him his fate was true but some wasn't but some was true and like we don't know it's like i don't
know if he's on mission or not but the the task was muddy the waters and doty was involved with
injecting specific narratives into the ufo community to get people wound up about it like the
dulcie base story it's kind of a richard dodey story um because there is no dulcie based but that
That story got a lot of legs and Till Schneider.
got involved with the story and said he was in a laser beam fight with aliens underground and they
shot him up and he had all kinds of injuries. He ended up committing suicide in a weird way,
Phil Schneider. But that was what Doty wanted to do, was just confuse people in the community.
And we found out later on, maybe mid-80s, when this author, Bill Moore,
Bill Moore was a big deal in UFOs back then. He's the one who sort of broke the Roswell story with
his book. He kind of broke that story. And he went and did an event.
And in the middle of his speech, he admitted that he was being paid by the government to
spread lies through the community.
And you could see this on YouTube.
It's crazy.
And he's just booed and booed.
And the MC has to get up and say, everybody calm down.
He's basically booed off the stage.
And Bill Moore went from rock star to you really didn't hear from him again.
He showed up in like one interview and that was it.
His career was over because you can't trust him anymore.
He took money.
Do you ever worry about that yourself?
Like maybe the conspiracies you talk about?
Are fun distractions from real intentionally hidden horrors done by powerful people?
Or do you see it differently?
I don't know if I worry about it.
You know, doing my show, the Y files is different.
Like if my interview show, I worry that because I get a lot of outreach to like, hey, can I
come on?
Right.
And my team will say, this guy wants to come on.
I'm like, he's an asset.
So no.
This guy wants to come on.
He's an asset, so no.
I know who's who out there.
And I talk to the other podcasters that, you know,
get the same outreach.
I'm just not going to deal with it.
But when I'm telling the story myself,
there's no distractions from any of that.
I just, I dig and I say, here's what I found.
Here's what.
I can't prove.
It's up to you guys to figure it out.
You know, I try not to inject my opinion,
except if I'm attacking the government.
I just try to, here is what I can surface.
Here's where I brought up.
And it's really up to the viewer to go figure it
out.
Because I make mistakes all the time, as people remind me.
But I believe there's a lot of stories.
that they're probably just designed to get us our wheels turning which ones i i don't know
how would i know do you have a framework for like yourself which ones you're interested in
at the moment nothing specific i mean i do a lot of ufo stuff because it's in the it's
in people are interested in it right now and you know there's hearings all the time the video
dumps the document dumps are really cool did you see disclosure day no i'm not going to go
Did you see it?
I did see it.
And?
Yeah.
Well, now I think aliens are real.
I'm very empathetic toward them.
No, you didn't like that movie.
I heard some early reviews from people I trust.
And we had a couple of events planned for Disclosure Day to like sync up with the movie release.
And I called the team.
I'm like, no, no.
We're not associating with this movie.
No.
This is an op.
All right.
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matches on his dating apps even after paying for premium. Like, why would you
after paying for premium. Like, why would you do that?
There's a reason you wouldn't ask that guy to handle your love life. Just like there's a
reason Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Not all law firms are the same.
Hire the wrong one and you might be beat before you even start. Morgan & Mortgan has been fighting
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But anyway, guys, back to the podcast.
associating with this movie. No, this is an op. I'm not doing it.
To transition a bit on UFOs. Yeah. In 1977, on a Brazilian island, villagers said beams of light
were coming out of the sky and burning them. The Brazilian Air Force then launched an official
mission and took real photos of what they called the Chupa Chupa. You said, quote, there's nothing
to debunk here. It happened over and over again. What do you think is the most convincing story
you've read about UFOs.
There's a lot of stories that are
just sort of urban legends where it's like an alien, it's a lizard person. And it's
like, well, I can't debunk it because it's an anonymous source. It's an inner legend.
So are there lizard people? I don't think so. There might be. That's not, you know,
I'm not here as a spokesman for the lizard people. That is for you, but I can debunk
something that's anonymous. That incident that happened on Calaris Island in Brazil.
That's all documented. The injuries are real. There's photographs of them. Two women
died. And the story is they're in, they're on the
small island. So it's, it's pretty primitive, like even like
huts and stuff. And one, and one story is they would see the
ceiling of their hut or their, their cabin just kind of vaporize
like, like phase out of existence. And these lights would come
down usually on like the left chest or left breast and be like
just a couple of dots. Like you see the, you know, shining a
laser, like one of the laser dots. But this is back in the
70s. And then they would paralyzed and they would feel the
blood being drained from their body. So that's why they call it
chubby chubby for
for sucker sucker and these women were taken to a larger hospital near the island which i think is
called bel m but i could be wrong i'm going to get a lot of things wrong today and they saw that
these two women did have low blood count like it was reduced and they were sick and they didn't
know how what was going on with them like the things wouldn't heal it was like the injuries
wouldn't heel and they died eventually a couple days later so the mayor on the island is freaking
out now because that because the whole village is going crazy because these things
are going it's every night they're just terrorizing the island and and people are getting really hurt
and it's usually women and the mayor calls the air force and they're like yeah we could you know
we'll send an investigator down he's like no you need to send guys with guns and fighter jets and
stuff this is we're under attack so they sent um an investigation team to look into it and the
investigation team took like 500 photos like yeah this is definitely real have all the reports
Brazil eventually declassified all
this like but years in the 90s they released it all these reports and they would see these
orbs come up out of the ocean without disturbing the water go over the village do stuff in the
village then go out into the jungle come back and eventually they were following the military
around and they said we didn't know if it was intelligent or not so we just sort of moved
our base a few miles and the craft just followed them over and the photographs were all overexposed
But then when they looked at the negatives, they saw little objects in there and eventually
got like infrared photography and they saw there's like these little cylinders.
They even have film of all this.
Film hasn't been released.
About 20 years after that op, that officer who was in charge came forward and said, you
know, this all this stuff is definitely real.
This was just before the release of the documents.
And he ends, he does an interview with a UFO magazine.
I think the guy's name is Guy Javert.
If you guys want to look into it, I think that's the truth.
journalist. Because you can see his interview online. He's, he's
definitely telling the truth, which we know now he was. And he
gives this interview. And even before it comes out in the
magazine, he ends up with his bathrobe, like his bed, like, you
could see the, this, the death scene photos is like, it's really
hard to get it from the floor. But somehow he did, he just ended
up dead. His daughter doesn't believe it.
He tied like one end of the rope to the bed.
Laid back.
If you look at it, it's like, how did he die?
You know, you throw it, you know, I don't kill a lot of people,
but I would think you go higher.
It's really weird.
Maybe he did.
What do you think is the best evidence
that humans have been visited by action?
extraterrestrial beings. I can't see any evidence of that aside from just stories that people tell.
For whistleblowers, I don't really trust the whistleblower is coming out of like Air Force
intelligence. So you know those ghost guys' names. And no, you can't come on my show. So even though
you get huge views, you're not coming on. So I Don't trust those guys. But like Bob Lazar's story,
I kind of believe. But because his story has been so consistent, and he talked about
element.
at 115 that was not an element that eventually is one, they were able to create it. It's called
Moscovium. It was unstable, but it became, it's on the periodic chart now. But, and he says he has
some, but he won't show it to us. Like, I want to see, I need to see something, physical evidence.
I need some low-level scientist to sneak a laser gun or something out of there,
you know, a piece of UFO so we can see it. We don't really have anything. We've got
little artifacts that have been debunked and stuff like that.
i need to see evidence as far as aliens i can't get my mind around the how far apart everything is
so if if ufos are real and i'm pretty sure they are it might have something to do with
interdimensional travel which sounds kind of woo-woo but it's it's definitely scientifically
grounded like traveling in extra dimensions to cross distances quickly you can do that scientifically
sermon was researching that up until recently uh looking for kaluza-kline particles which
which allows you to slip into
extra dimensions which compresses space geometrically and the further deeper we go it's called the bulk
you go further deeper into the bulk you go more it compresses and you can just go anywhere really
fast so when we see these orbs or crafts kind of just jumping like it skips a frame that would
be consistent with extra dimensional travel or just popping out and disappearing that'd be
consistent with it is that aliens i guess it could be or humans from the future or some type of
I, you know, I don't know, but aliens just zipping across the galaxy here.
I can't get my item.
I think that.
Right.
Speed of light is just kind of a thing.
Speed of Light is a thing, so you mean that there's bounds to this universe?
So interdimensional travel would be outside of those bounds?
No, in extra dimensional, that's scientifically grounded, like the math works, but the
speed of light, is still a hard limit.
So you would, you would assume that if it's a hard
limit for us, it's probably a hard
limit for everyone.
one the laws of physics in our reality are just going to be the same everywhere so if you're 10 000
light years away you're still 10 000 years away traveling at the speed of light to get here
which you really can't do you really cannot get up the speed light because of the mass and the
gravity and all that so you have to find a different way so is that a wormhole like an
einstein-rozen bridge could be but that's a lot of energy so maybe they harness a small black
whole of singularity scientifically could be true.
jump into another dimension scientifically could work requires a lot of energy and expertise that
we don't have yet but we do know it could happen and the extra dimensions would explain things like
the hierarchy problem with gravity why is gravity such a weak force when the other forces are so much
stronger like gravity doesn't make sense scientists don't know how it works they're looking for
gravitons they can't find them so maybe someone found them maybe some species figured that out
figured out the gravity problem and the extra dimensions would solve that because
if gravity originates in the other dimensions and this is this is part of the paper i think from
from 2010 then if gravity starts there it's so weak because it just leaks down to us where
electromagnetism comes from here so it's might be weaker up there i point up like it's up there
i don't know it's around us electromagnetic is come from here is here is strong here that's a
strong force the gravity is really weak compared to it huh like i forget the number but something
like 10 to the negative 43 like it really really really
tidy. That's fascinating. I don't have anything about CERN, but I'm just curious, because I saw
stuff on like X about they turn the Cern machines off, that's why life feels normal again. Like,
did you think they put us back in the right timeline? A lot of things got weird when they turned
that machine off. I didn't want to get into specifics, but they turned that machine
off and a couple of people died and things got weird. I don't know. I
don't really subscribe to that theory. I approach all these
stories very skeptically, I'm more scientific than woo woo, at
least like, you know, try to convince myself of that. But do you
think it's aliens coming here?
I think it serves me best to assume no.
Okay, that's that's a very diplomatic answer.
I think I assume, I connect more patterns that make sense, assuming
that that one thing is not true.
on UFOs specifically, because it would just make more sense to me that UFOs aren't alien spacecraft.
Yes. You said, I'm Rogan. With a gun to my head, all the weird stuff is in the ocean.
Yes, I would. I did say that.
If you had unlimited access and resources to explore the moon, the ocean, Antarctica,
or the Amazon rainforest, which would you choose?
I could only get one, huh? It was only one of
of
probably be the ocean because it's close enough to us that if we're if there's visitors here that's
a good place to hide is down there the moon is would work too but it's not as convenient to get here
but the moon the Moon is weird there's something weird going on up I'd like to go see what's
gone on the moon they won't show us the satellites we can't really see uh but I think the ocean
there's a lot of good stories about what what they've seen in the ocean and like just giant craft
on the giant disks under the water.
If you're going to hide
here, it's just Mariana Trench, because we're never going to be able to get down there.
And you think that's not human?
I don't think that that's human. If it's human, then it's got to be time travel. It's just
got be crazy. It got to time travel because they've got to figure out the pressure problem and all
kinds of stuff. You know, there was one whistleblower, but I don' want to name him because I'm not,
the story's kind of sketchy, but it's a good story. That's what I do. So I say, I'd say good
story.
who said he worked on a recovery program from UFOs in the ocean.
And he described in detail, he was a biologist.
And the stuff he was saying, like,
was definitely biology grounded.
Like, this guy was definitely a scientist,
but we don't know who he is.
We just have his writing.
But he described these giant bases under the ocean,
near the Bermuda Triangle,
because of course it makes a great story.
And they would kind of move around the ocean
the Navy knows they're there.
They don't go near them,
because they learned that the hard way.
and these craft are
like sentient AI that are doing missions here. This is a story. And that's why all the UFOs
look different. Some are barrels, some are disks, some of this or that, because it depends
on the mission. So what happens is there's this giant thing underwater. They've got raw
materials. They want to do a mission. They're going to survey Antarctica. So they create this
package with the sensor data and it just needs to be this shape and out it goes. It does
its thing. You know, a couple of people see it. It comes back under the water, dumps
it's data or whatever it does and then it gets disassembled that makes good sense to me like
that's would be a good way to do it if you had that technology uh is that what's happening i don't
know i like the story something that helps me when deciphering truth is what would i do if i had
the capabilities uh and i think about what humans already do with space flight space travel like
our first missions are without humans in them they are we send a lot of like technology to different
It would make sense that they wouldn't send any beings here.
It makes sense.
Yeah.
And we've heard contactees talk about seeing some aliens up close.
And they're like, but when it got really close, it didn't feel like it was alive.
Like they talk about skin looks rubbery, almost like was a robot.
You've got stories about alien autopsy and someone's on alien autopsy and the inside
was like just one organ.
Like there was nothing in there.
like it was a like a skin suit or something.
And we're the bodies, the corporeal bodies are just sort of vessels that just work well
on this mission.
You know, it's got two eyes and legs and stuff, and that's how things work here.
But it's not alive, really, or it's synthetic kind of biology, which kind of makes sense.
Like we would do that.
That would be a rover, you know, Mars rover of the future.
I'm trying to think of a time that aliens would actually interact.
with humans or like some organic species,
like species that's not AI or mechanical in nature.
Like do you think a more advanced civilization
has ever turned off one of our nuclear reactors?
I think they have.
I think we have.
We know the reactors have turned off.
That's documented.
You remember when all the drones are happening
all over the place, right?
The drones are flying over
like secure military sites all over the country, but just a couple of years ago.
A couple of the ones that are not widely reported were over Cheyenne Mountain, which is NORAD.
And in a recent data dump, there were orbs or something flying over Langley Air Force Base,
Virginia.
So you got the CIA right there.
You've got an Air Force base there.
They had to stop their mission and get the planes out of the sky because they lost control of the
airspace.
I think Christopher Mellon talked about it.
Like, if we don't even control our own airspace over our most sensitive installations, who's
in charge and they could just turn the stuff off. I mean,
personally, I'm glad they turned like turn all that off man, just
turn it all off. We don't need any new we don't have to play
with nukes. So something did that. But I don't know if it's
aliens. I don' know if its alive. I dunno if it is us. But if we
were visiting, if we had an ant farm, let's say, and there's an
issue, something going on that was is going to destroy our
experiment, we would go in there and we would get it out like, I
we can't have any beetles in here, you know, the ants can't
have nukes, we could pull that out of there.
We would do that.
So maybe we're part of that experiment or they're just here for resources and we're kind of in the way.
They're like, we don't need you polluting the ocean and the air with that stuff.
So we'll just turn that off.
I hope that's real.
That's better than nuclear apocalypse.
Would you guess there's anything else that they've turned off or stopped?
Or do you think that would be the one?
That would probably be the, probably the one because it's the easiest one to spot.
I mean, if you, it's pretty easy to spot nuclear material.
And the Roswell crash, which probably happened, that's probably a real thing, is right where
they were testing nukes, like all over that area, the desert.
So I don't think it's a coincidence that those craft are out in the desert instead of,
you know, New Jersey or somewhere.
And if you look on old films of nuclear tests, I dunno if it's Castle Bravo, it might be,
but some of those tests, you'll see stuff in the sky that says just like a film artifact
or something, but
I don't know, that film artifact is going between the clouds.
Like it's like they were watching, like, what are these?
Are they nuts?
What are they doing?
Maybe they went back to the mothership and mothership's like, just turn that shit off, man.
We don't need them playing with that.
You know, chimpanzees with a machine gun.
It's close to home.
It's so hard to not ask your perspectives about some of the smaller things within this.
You can.
I was going to get a lot of I donno's.
Yeah.
Do you, you talked about the dark forest theory.
Yes.
The universe is silent because every civilization is hiding and whoever reveals themselves gets
destroyed.
Yes.
I think in 1977, NASA strapped a golden record to a spacecraft filled with music, maps,
or languages.
Sure.
And shot it into space.
It's a terrible idea.
You thought that was a bad idea?
Yeah, I do.
I do, I think dark forest theory.
There's something to that.
That's popularized by Lisa Schir, who wrote The Three Body Problem.
I don't know if you read those or watched this.
show, but you definitely need to. And yeah, he says that the
University of Dark Forest and anyone sticks their head up is
going to get their head chopped off. There's a limited amount of
resources. So anyone who has the technology to get out here with
us, we need to stop their technology cold, or destroy them.
Otherwise, they'll eventually catch up to us and become a
rival. That makes sense to me. That's kind of how things work.
So I don't know if shooting records into space is a good idea,
like, or that the radio telescope is like, we're here, we
here. Maybe don't do that.
that Arecibo message, just maybe just don't do that.
But I understand the curiosity.
You know, I'd like to know.
But yeah, I don't think it's a good idea.
Because Stephen Hawking didn't either.
Was there a story that of like intelligent life communicating with us
that you weren't able to debunk clearly?
I probably need specifics to know for sure
because after 300 episodes, it's kind of blurry.
But I've never been able to prove anything, anything alien or UFO, I haven't been able
to prove any of it, you know, except for like Operation Prada was the Brazilian one.
We have documents that something happened.
But at the same time, Brazil was working with the CIA on secret programs down there.
So it could have been that.
You know, a lot of that stuff turns out to be high just high tech stuff, just turns out
to be a stealth bomber.
with all the stuff that's being dumped now, you see number
members being thrown around like, oh, 40% of this stuff could be extraterrestrial or high-tech
material that we can't explain. That's not really what it says. It says 40 percent of witness
reports sounds like ET technology. That is not in the sensor data. And the sensor
data, most of it is just balloons and drones. So I haven't been able to have a story that
says, this is aliens. This is contact. I don't have any of those.
I find it interesting doing this podcast that in my research of other
episodes from like other creators and my own conversations, it seems like a common theme
that people have kind of torn down this old idea that like at one point in time people
are like the government's so smart. And then now everyone's like the companies are smart.
The government's stupid. Like they don't have any secret in technology. If they do, it's
only like a month or two ahead. Like yeah, what do you make of that?
I kind of agree with that in some ways that the high the high tech, if there's alien tech
or advanced tech, it's with the
companies, that's where the resources are. But also, if you give that tech to Lockheed
or Raytheon, there's no FOIA requests now. There's no transparency. Like, if the government
is working on a project, we can ask for freedom of information. We could ask for transparency.
We can send a congressman. But congressmen have gone to Area 51 and said, there was nothing
here. Well, of course, there is nothing here. It's over at Lockheeds. That's where all the
good stuff is. Or it's over with the contractors.
And I've talked about that for a long time. And it wasn't until, I think,
his age of disclosure that documentary that made me so angry that came out a couple months ago
where how put off who's who's legendary in the community was talking about here is how we hide
stuff we give it to the contractors so people can't penetrate that the corporate veil you just
can't see in here and i couldn't believe that he said it on the on the documentary like we've been
alleging this for 20 years and here's how talking about it so yeah that's that all the good stuff
is with the companies that's where all the this the smart people are anyway you want the dmv trying
Trying to reverse engineer a UFO?
No, thank you.
In the 1970s, NASA crashed a rocket into the moon
and used instruments to record the sound it made.
They reported it rang like a bell for over an hour.
Do you think the moon is an artificial hollow structure?
I don't know if I should just flat out answer these questions
or if I just kind of should spin the yarn.
The moon is weird.
So Apollo 11 dropped seismometers to the surface of the moon so we can kind of track the activity,
the seismic activity.
We didn't know if they have earthquakes, moon quakes.
We don't know what was there.
Was there volcanism?
So Apollo 12 took part of their rocket and just crashed into the moon and they took readings
to see what would happen.
And the scientists were blown away by the fact that, all right, we see the impact.
see the reverberations going through
through the crust, and they're still going.
And they're going.
And I went and got coffee and came back,
there's still going, and it's just for over an hour,
like you said.
So when a scientist did say it rang like a bell,
but he was using a metaphor.
He wasn't saying like it was hollow and humming
or anything like that.
The moon is probably has hollow spaces,
but it's very dry and it is very,
it's not as dense compared to us.
So the sound waves are gonna go through there.
That's just what's going to happen.
to happen. We have a bunch of water and all kinds of stuff here. So, you know, we've got a molten core,
the moon's core is dead. So things can kind of bounce around. So I don't think it's a hollow
spaceship, but there's a lot of stuff about the moon that doesn't add up. Like it's too big,
it's two close, it's tidally locked. We've never seen another moon like this in our solar system
or any other. Like we've never found anything that is an analog of what is in our sky.
What's different about our moon as opposed to others in the solar system?
It's too Big. Like the moon is really big.
You know, about, I don't know, one sixth the size of the Earth, something like that.
It's too close.
It's less than 300,000 miles away.
That's like right there.
And we only see one side, like perfectly.
You have other moons that are tidally locked to their parent body, but you have some wobble.
So you'll see other pieces of it.
But our moon is like, it's like hardcore, like intense.
It just stays there.
We only ever see that edge.
We never see what's on the other side.
Oh, planets have moons, but they're tiny compared to it
or in their way out there.
Nothing like this.
I mean, imagine if Jupiter had a moon
like the size of Saturn that was just right on top of it.
It would be crazy, but that's what we've got.
What do you think the moon is?
The mainstream theory is probably right,
but I'm uncomfortable with all of it,
the mainstream theory was that it was an impact,
like a large body, I think it's called Thea,
hit the Earth, spins off the moon,
And that's
That's why we have a lot of the same materials.
And that's why the moon's crust is a lot like our mantle because that's kind of got scooped
out.
That all makes sense, but it's just kind of weird that it didn't keep going, that it just
kind of hit and just sort of formed there and just stayed there.
There's just a lot stuff about the moon that's very strange.
And there's allegedly photographs of the other side that show all kinds of cities and
structures over there i'd like to see what's on the other side really yeah wouldn't you want to see
no i haven't seen the photos with cities and structures um i think one of the whistleblowers
it he talked about in 2000 maybe 2001 at the uh at the press corps event that that dr reir put on
his name was carl wolf he worked for the us air force and he was a technician basically like
like a copy repairman he was just a tech guy and he gets called in to work on some photography
the equipment. And he's in the Air Force. He's pretty low ranking.
And he goes in there and he's like,
all right, what's the problem?
And the guy's like you're not gonna believe this.
Come over and show it.
And he shows him like these cities and lights
and like these mushrooms, these domes and stuff.
And Carl Wolf is like amazed by it.
And he even said in his statement,
like he went home, told his wife and turned on the news.
He said, I can't wait to hear what they found on the moon.
He was surprised when nothing happened.
Then he was told, don't talk about it, all that.
He eventually got hit by a car, Mr. Wolf.
Yeah, so those pictures are allegedly out there.
I don't think those are.
the ones, but they're pretty good. You'll know them because it kind of looks like like bright
mushroom cities on the moon. They're, it, they're really fun. It's funny because you always hear
from people like, oh, we didn't land on the Moon because we haven't gone back there. Yeah.
And it's like, how do you know we have been going back there? You know, uh, would you guess that
we've gone back? I don't think we went back. Uh, I mean, the good story is that we went there
don't come back. And that's why. Right. You know, I don't know if that's true. There was really no
resources up there that we were aware of until pretty recently, like helium-3. So it really
didn't make any sense to go back because there's no money in it. There's no profit in it when
this when NASA was defunded essentially in the 70s. It's like we have to spend our we have a very
small budget. I mean, NASA had a huge budget during the space race with the Soviets. But after
you beat the Soviets, we don't need to spend the money.
won, you know, we won. So there's nothing on the moon of value. So we
went to other places. You know, if we find an asteroid that we can
harness, and it's full of lithium or something, I would think
we're going. I bet we are. Because profit that's profitable.
That's worth doing. So it's cool that we're
going back now. And helium three could be, you
know, a game changer as far as energy. So now there is a now
there are there are resources up there. Now we see who gets there
first. I think China's pretty motivated. So let's get cracking.
You said that the budget for NASA was significantly reduced in the 70s. I saw that it's like $24
billion annually right now. I'm guessing that's probably like a tenth or something of what it was.
It's probably a 50th.
A 50th?
It's really, really small.
What would you guess they're doing with that money? Like I was thinking about this last
night. I was like, what the hell does NASA do?
They're governments, so they waste most of it.
I think that's a fact. But they had to have a ton of
of projects. I mean, a ton of projects, things that you don't even really hear about until
they happen, like crashing a spaceship into a asteroid or a comet. That was awesome. I
didn't know that they had that project until I saw it, you know, like in the news. And we've
got stuff on Mars, stuff on the moon, stuff out there, plus all the satellite systems.
And NASA's busy. And now with SpaceX and the private sector getting involved, I think
it's exciting.
And then if you get billionaires like
you know, Bezos and Musk who have so much money that it's like,
we'll just go to the Mars just because that's what you need.
Because like, we don't need the money.
We just, I just want to see what's over there.
That's fun.
Sorry to interrupt, but if you're a fan,
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Again, guys, jackneal.com backslash Patreon. Scan the QR code on screen. But anyway, back to the
podcast. And then if you get billionaires like, you know, Bezos and Musk who have so much money,
that it's like, we'll just go to the margins because that's what you need.
because like we don't need the money we just i just want to see what's over there that's fun
in 1999 an interview was released in sweden with an alleged reptilian being named lacerta and it
she claims that reptilians are earth's true natives here long before us and humans are the
seventh attempt at a created species were you able to disprove that story no couldn't debug that
story. That's that's the Lucerta files. So she Lucerta is a
She's a reptilian humanoid that does an interview with the Swedish journalist who goes by Ol K or
Ola K, who is famous for debunking stories like this. He gets outreach from Lacerda. She says,
you know, I'm a lizard person and you're the seventh attempt at human life. Do you want to
interview me? And he's like, sure, I do. And he shows up at some cabin, they meet in some cabin.
He's there with his like equipment. It just sits her down, just starts interviewing and recording.
His coffee mug is like levitating, his pen's levitating.
She makes his coffee freeze in the cup.
Like she's got telekinetic powers.
And she says we all have these powers, but ours are suppressed because our creators,
called the illegitimate, suppress them from us.
That way we, because we were just sort of designed to mine copper and defend the mines.
So that's what we're.
We're warrior miners for the illegits.
That's what humans are for.
That's why we're made for.
And they would try with us, and then it wouldn't work.
So they would like send an asteroid.
They try again.
It wouldn't worked.
They do a flow.
blood, it wouldn't work. And we're the seventh. And our experiment's going pretty well, but
they're not super happy with it. So they're coming back to kind of fix it. That's, that's
the story. And according to Lacerda, there's other reptilians here as well. And they're
competing for the copper. It's kind of a cool metal. You can do stuff to it. You could,
you know, charge with energy, spin it around. It could do a lot of stuff you can. Copper
fusion does weird things. And it's according to
a lot of strange stuff. So there's a war on the planet for, for the resources. And the
illogium are coming back and we're going to fight the war with them. That's, that's the story.
I can't debunk it because it's a totally anonymous story that showed up on the internet, you know,
like the year 2000. No one knows who Ola K is. He named himself K after the character in Men in
Black. So don't love that. So no, I couldn't debunc it, but I don't believe a word of that story.
Really? No, but it's such a good story. I don's, I think they're,
I don't think they're...
The way she described it is very present, like there's a war, and I don't think there's any
war in orbit.
I think we kind of would see that.
I think would be aware of that.
Were we engineered to mine the earth?
That's part of a lot of legends.
I mean, she's telling half the Anunnaki story there.
And she says the Christian Bible talks a lot about this stuff, and it could be interpreted
as that.
And she mentions some things that are in the Book of Enoch that track.
So they're good stories, but there's no, I like hard evidence.
That's why the third act of my show is everyone's least favorite.
Yeah, you'd said that the watch time just drops off.
It just goes away.
Which I find so surprising, but it kind of makes sense.
What are the most common non-human beings people encounter?
Most common non human beings.
The grays we hear about all the time.
Then there's the Nordics.
that race comes up a lot those these are like tall fair skinned light hair look a lot like us the
grays don't those are the they're four feet tall the big eyes that those we hear reptilians we hear
and the mantis creatures we hear about those uh but someone like john lear would go on
george knapp show and say there's like 70 different species you know i don't know those those are
the ones that that i come across all the time those those same four do you think the grays are
know, I don't know, man. It's hard to say because time travel to the future, we know we, that's,
that's legit. We know that that works. Time travel the past is a little trickier. The math works,
but it's hard wrap the math around a craft and send somebody back in time. So, because if they're
us, they have to be future us, right? But if you subscribe to the theory, it could make sense
because maybe something happens to the surface of the earth, so we go underground. So we have to
evolve these large eyes to see in the dark. And we no longer need
to be so big
because we're compressed
and our skin is pale
because we are not in the sun.
Like you can line up
the conspiracy theories
to make them fit
but I can't get my mind
around the science.
You know,
Salvatore Pais
has some really interesting patents.
I don't know if you've ever
looked into him
but he has some patents
about anti-gravity
and I don'
think he might have
a time travel one
but like creating wormholes
all kinds of stuff
and the patents
are owned
by the people
the U.S. Navy, which is really strange. He works for Space Force now. He never gives interviews.
Maybe he'll talk to you. That would be awesome.
He never gets interviews. He's got these crazy patents. A lot of the technology looks like
old Nazi technology or ancient Indian technology from the Vedic texts. It's really crazy.
Like these spinning rings of mercury, like mercury engines. I come across that a lot,
like counter-rotating mercury vortex engines.
as I come across that, that story a lot.
And those are in his
patents so i like that because it's like someone trying to make it practically work right but his
patents are very vague there's a lot of speculation physicists don't like his stuff and his patents
are rejected initially the us david called and said no no no we got we got any gravity to work it's
a legit patent and patent was approved they're not supposed to do that so we have it or we don't
But my point is, it's cool that somebody's trying to make it work.
work. So if he can make a craft go back in time, then maybe it's us.
So scientifically, time travel is possible for humans.
Time travel is
possible for
humans. Yes, scientifically. If you go fast enough or you're near
gravity, time moves slower for you than it does to the observer. So
if you travel the speed of light and come back, everybody's dead. And
you only aged whatever, a month, something like that. So that's
traveling away.
Right.
You told one story that in 1977, a soldier walked into a glowing mist in the Chilean
mountains and returned 15 minutes later with five days of stubble on his face and his
watch jumped five days forward.
You couldn't debunk that one, could you?
Let's tell the story first.
Yeah.
So that, yeah, that was a Chilean soldier.
That's documented.
That story is documented.
That happened.
there is another one that happened
also to a military outfit. I think they were English. In the 60s, they hit the same mist.
And I think the officer was a general, like charged toward the mist and hit some invisible
boundary, sort of bounced off. Everybody in the area started to feel cold. And then to each
person, it looked like everybody else was frozen. But you were still moving. And everyone's like,
I was, you were frozen. I wasn't moving. So that was all very strange. And there's another story
of a pilot flying kind of like toward Miami and he hits one of
these time storms. He's off course and he's talking to the radio
tower. And he's whatever 200 miles from the airport, whatever it
was. And they're like, we don't see you anywhere. And then the
mist goes away. And it's like, Oh, I see the airport. And like, oh,
yeah, we got you. But it's supposed to be like a 45 minute flight
and he just got there. So time jump. And there's another British
pilot who's flying over like an old Air Force base in
England and it's all dilapidated.
There's like cows grazing on the pasture and stuff.
He sees like these guys in blue suits around
or something like that.
He didn't know what it was.
And he does his mission and he comes back
and now it's a brand new military base
and there's craft down there and all things like that,
which happened in the future.
Like they changed the color of their suits and aircraft.
So he like was seeing the future or something that.
A lot of the time storm stories come from Jenny Randalls,
who's an author who writes a lot about that stuff.
That soldier, I think his name was Valdez, he came out later and said, I kind of fudged
a little bit of the story, and we were having a good time with it, so everybody kind of built
on it.
Like, he walked it back quite a bit.
A lot of those other stories have been either debunked or, like, the guy with the flight
to Florida, that really happened.
But it could be explained by high winds.
He got caught up in some type of cloud or something, got hit by high wind and just kind of pushed
him really fast.
I just have to say that theory.
Yeah, I kind of like the time.
travel one better. But is that the debunking out? You know, I
don't know. It's Jenny Randall's is a real researcher. But the
research is a lot of it is it's speculative. Right. You know? I
don't believe most of those stories. But I like them. A couple
of them are pretty good, though. Like the the military flight,
his now his name just came to me as Goddard is worth looking
into his stories pretty good. Like he even wrote a book about it
later. Like, like Jenny didn't write
story this the guy the pilot wrote it and he was like a legit pilot everything he said lines up
whether you believe you time travel that's on you but he said he did i guess if you had to
put together the stories that you've read over the years on time travel would you guess that
humans have more likely unintentionally time traveled or intentionally time traveled
the stories would point to unintentional time travel because we talk about time slips is is a
is a phenomenon.
that's really fun. You'll be walking down a neighborhood. There are some hotspots for this.
Like in England, it has quite a few. Maybe one story is a guy walks into a bookstore and has
a conversation with a woman and he walks out and something feels weird and he turns around
the bookstore is gone. It's like a pub or something and he can't, he doesn't understand what
happened. And he finds out later there was a bookstore here like 30 years ago and the woman
he talked about was the owner. There's, that's, you see that story all the time. We're some
soldiers were, it's going down to a village. All these are in England. And they go down
to this village. It's really weird. It''s quiet. Everything looks medieval, but kind of new.
And they don't really see any people. They see like a butcher shop and there's an animal hanging
there. It''It's all kind of bizarre. They noticed that when they were going down there, they
heard church bells. But when they got down, there was nothing like that. But they found a church
with the same story and then eventually they go back out of the village and they look back and
everything is modern again and the church is built and they hear the bells and then they
go back down there and nothing happens it's like they all slipped into a time store or slipped
into it and they all traveled at the time now two of those guys stuck with the story one guy said
he doesn't remember one guys said it didn't happen so that's frustrating that's a third act part
right but the there's a lot of time slip stories those are fun um that's all unintentional you're
You see.
You said a lot of these happen in the UK or Britain.
Why do you think that is?
I mean, a good answer would be ley lines.
Maybe there's high energy parts of the earth where energetic particles collide, cause some
type of anomaly with time and space.
Or maybe that's just where the story started and that they kind of become local legends.
So someone tells a story and then a person's like comes up with a story because the tension's
fun.
Do you see that a lot?
our stories coming out.
of similar areas consistently consistently especially with um you always know a hoaxer because
their story has all the things in it their story it has has everything they've got grays and and
they got reptilians and there's craft and they're there's orbs and this telekinesis and and they
they're recruited as children they go back to to fight a war on the kuiper belt and they come
back to their bodies like it's all like you got everything you got every conspiracy story
rolled into one i know you're definitely lying if you look up dan borosha's story he's got
off.
all of them wrapped up into one.
Corey Good's another one.
All, it's all wrapped into one,
so you know it's not, I know that's not true.
It, you know, stories like Bob Lazar would just talk,
he's like, I just know this one thing.
I don't know anything about lizards.
I just, I worked on the UFO.
That's what he says.
Those are the stories I tend to believe more
where someone's like I dunno anything about Mars
and the future and some space war.
I just knew something came to my room at night.
I saw lots of lights and now I have a bump under my skin
My doctors don't know what's in there, you know.
their implant or whatever. Those stories are very interesting. And the implant stories is like,
there's the x-ray. What is that? There's an implant in him. There's implants in quite a few
of these stories. Remember we talked about Operation Prado in Brazil with the lasers and
blood suckers? That officer, during that mission, went back home for the weekend, which is kind
of what he was doing. And he had a visitation at night in his bedroom at his house.
And he said they look like grays.
out and he got out of bed and they were just gone. But the next morning, he's like, something
hurts in his arm and he's itchy. And he's got this bump. And the doctors don't know what
it is. And you see him on camera. He's given the interview and he showing you the bump.
Like he's not, it's not AI. This is from the, from like 1995 or something.
He's showing you, the bump is there. So something's there and you see implant stories all the
time with it. They don't what, what it is and the X-rays show nothing or no, they show
something under there. Now, it doesn't look like technology.
it could be assist, which could just be assist.
I prefer to think of it as like a tracking chip
or something like that, be way cooler.
But you do see something.
Huh.
Just on you, I'm guessing the answer is no,
but you've, have you ever had a like,
this world sober experience with like an entity?
Nothing.
Brilliant.
The closest would be, you know, some kind of psychedelic trip.
But I've never seen a UFO.
In Vegas, I saw like a green comet, not too long ago.
ago. I don't remember seeing green comets growing up and definitely not this bright, but it was
interesting because just a few months earlier in Vegas, there's a green comet on a police officer's
body camp footage. And then Metro PD gets a call that there's an alien in someone's backyard.
Now, that story's been a little urban, legendized and conflated because that's not really what
happened. But you do see the comet on the police officer camera. Like, can you see it? Green
comments, I don't, I didn't grow up with those. That's a, that's a new thing.
That's a Gen Z comet. I'm Gen X. We had blue comets, white ones.
Have you seen a UFO? Or something weird in the sky?
The only thing I've noticed is an inordinate amount of satellites. You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
But maybe they're just planes.
Maybe. Maybe just satellites. But there's a lot of stuff.
Yeah.
The orbs are very strange. They've been seeing orbs all over the places.
of like growing up yeah it's weird the sky kind of freaks me out in general does it yeah when i look
at it i just you can't think what is this you know it'll break your brain if you think too hard
about what what it is i read about this i was like do people like go crazy looking at the moon
um i was Like why is it called like lunatic you know lunar you know uh and apparently it's like
in the thing in old religions it's not like don't stare at the Moon too long yeah that's true
Why do you think the pyramids were used to generate energy?
Oh, I love that theory.
That's Christopher Dunn's theory.
It's certainly not mine.
There's a lot of physical evidence that something was strange about pyramids, that maybe they're
not used for what we were told they're used for.
Like that the pyramid of Khufu was to hold the mummy of a pharaoh.
That definitely wasn't.
a box in there, but it's not big enough for a pharaoh. It does, it would fit a
like an arc of the covenant would fit in there nicely which would make everything work but there
there are multiple shafts into that pyramid they have chemical residue of different chemicals
that when combined create an explosion of hydrogen gas the way the pyramids built that gas would
not explode it would be compressed and it would shoot up what's called the gallery and the
gallery look just looks like an escalator but back in the day it had these wooden baffles on there
And if hydrogen, if this
this theory is true and it's pretty it's a pretty good one right i like it this is one that i think
there's a lot to it so if that hydrogen flows through there it would it would those baffles
would vibrate at a certain chord i think it's 440 hertz and which happens to line up perfectly
with the hydrogen atom and also the gallery is surrounded by this type of it's called rose
granite rose granite is highly piezoelectric which so it's like type of quartz that if you
compress it, it creates charge, which we know is scientifically true. But you only find
it in the gallery. The rest of the pyramid is limestone, which is a good insulator. And
then the exterior was this tour limestone. Which is also would be a good, good isolator.
So you've got this electricity, this compression. You've got the sound. And then you got this
little opening going into the king's chamber that's just the right size for a hydrogen atom
to go through, like as a wave guide, goes into the king's chamber and then
supposedly that chamber resonates at the same frequency and it sounds really compressed so it's
really loud and in the king's chamber you've got these stone slabs above the chamber there
that are super flat on the bottom but all kind of chunky on the top and they're called relieving
stones because they're supposed to relieve the pressure in the pyramid the thing is they don't
really touch that's like it doesn't really touch the but what they do see is chip marks on the
be someone tuning it like it's like chip a few more chip you know like if you blow across a bottle
that's a helm host resonator so that would be the same type of technology the king's chamber
so that all fits so that could create a lot of energy if it's been proven that if you send
electromagnetic energy at the pyramid it will resonate that at lower frequencies it does do
it we've seen it work where where there's no closure is okay i'm i'm with you all the way up to that
That all makes sense.
but what happens to the energy? There's really no evidence for that. There's theories that the
capstone was gold, which would be cool, because it's a good conductor, could maybe shoot energy
into the ionosphere. And that kind of tracks with Nikola Tesla's experiments that he was doing
at Wardencliffe Tower. It's almost the same kind of technology as you use this aquifer,
this water underneath. You put copper rods down in there, do some stuff on the surface.
Tesla used electricity. They used hydrogen to create electricity with the stuff
own. It's electricity. And then it just goes up. So we know that the pyramids are built on an
aquifer. And we have found copper rods, which is not supposed to be copper there at that time,
but they found it just like Tesla did. What Tesla wanted to do is send that energy into the
ionosphere and then have receivers that can then take it out and then you just plug in your
microwave or whatever. That's what he wanted it to do was free energy for the world.
That's why he was basically, you know, marginalized and debunked and defunded is because free
energy is not good for business.
Is that what the pair moves for?
It would make sense to me, except we haven't found any receivers.
I've been told that, well, the obelisks we find are receivers.
That's fine, but there's no metal in those.
But it could just be a technology.
I don't understand.
Nobody seems that interested in trying to learn it.
But a lot of this I get from Christopher Dunn.
He's a good read.
Have they found anything that would utilize electricity in the first place?
No.
And some people will say that if
you look at the hieroglyphics, they're called the Dendera, the
dendera lights, they look like light bulbs. It's like it's like a
bulb, it's got like sort of a coily thing in there. But the
Egyptians didn't make glass. So that's it's not a bulb. And they
wouldn't have done that. That's the way we did light bulbs, you
know, you heat a filament in the in the glass with some gas and
it glows, they didn't do any of that. So I don't see any
receiver for it or any use for it. What there's no evidence
that electricity was used for anything. So we have a lot of stuff
around that's like full of wires right but maybe they did something a different way or maybe they
didn't use electricity the way we do they're like what do you use it for use the power stuff no it
does this and we're just like oh it changes consciousness maybe i don't know it could be
that's interesting yeah i i've never i really need to do a deep dive in the whole frequency thing
how it all connects you know just like frequencies in general but definitely connects you could
You could definitely alter your consciousness.
with frequencies for sure.
You can?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
One of the famous ones is the hemisine process.
I just had Tom Campbell on who's one of the inventors of it.
He worked on it at the Robert Monroe Institute.
And the Monroe Institute is famous for the gateway process, which is this process where
you put on some headphones and two sounds are played in your ear, binaural beats, but
the sounds are just off by about four, four and a half hertz, which you can't hear.
it's too low but your brain can tell the difference so your brain kind of gets in sync with that wave
and when that happens according to the gateway process you'd enter the greater reality you
can manipulate the universe you can manifest things to happen and we know this because the military
went down there to experiment and they sent you know like military intelligence officers down
there to learn the process to see if they can change time and space with the eight way process
so there's something to it i've tried it i keep falling asleep i can't i haven't manipulated
time or
space yet. I'm working on it. But but it's real enough that if
this is the 80s, it's not like a million years ago, in the
80s the military is down there checking out, like how do
frequencies, how do they affect consciousness? And you've heard
of Havana syndrome, right? Right. Same thing as frequencies
affecting the body. So there's there's a lot to it. I mean,
it's electromagnetism. It's some as a thing. Do you believe in
manifestation?
I kind of do.
Really?
Only because I've seen I I feel like I've
seen it happen.
This is almost weird to say, because I don't talk about this too much, but I had my closest
friend died or I was killed when he was 25, back when I was like 26.
So this is a million years ago.
So like if I need something, his name is Pat.
If I need, something, I'll ask Pat for it, whether it's a twist tie, maybe it's nicotine
pouches.
I'll let, and it's become like a joke in my family, just ask Pat and he'll do it for you.
Like I couldn't find my keys one day.
And you know, this is in the office.
This is when I was a kid, this is like six months ago.
I'm like, Pat, I need my keys, man.
I can't be stuck in here all night.
Almost like a joke.
I'm walking around the studio, I come back to my office
and my keys are sitting in front of my keyboard.
It's like, that was a crazy one.
It's one thing to find a paperclip when I need one,
you know, because you want to reset a CD drive or something.
It's another thing to have my keys placed up there.
So I kind of connected this with Pat and his death,
but I don't believe in ghosts.
So Tom Campbell's like, you're manifesting this.
I'm like, what? He's like, there's no, Pat's awesome. That's fine. But you need a paperclip.
You need a pen. You need your keys. You're just putting it out there in the universe that
you have this and the universe is just, is just providing it. Like, well, how, how big
can you do that? It's like as big as you want, man. He said, can you manifest a million
dollars? He was like, someone did it. Said she manifested $10 million. He tells a story
in my show. I couldn't, I'm like, no way. It's, and he documents all of it.
I want to listen to that one.
But have you ever manifested something?
Or had a synchronicity?
Like you're thinking of about a person and they text you out of the blue?
Were you thinking about something and it shows up right when you need it?
I have a unique way of explaining everything that's woo-woo with slightly less woo-wo stuff.
That's why I like your show.
Like the manifesting, it's, I would say the
you
logical answer is oh you're just orienting yourself toward this but my answer would probably be
something like you're affecting your subliminal subconscious mind that you can't uh access and
other people can feel that and that people are more capable and sense more than they think they
sense and in that way it works so i just say yes it works i mean that way that kind of works
that's that's a pretty good theory on tesla uh 120 years ago tesla built a tower to be
electricity through the air.
Yeah.
The man funding the project, J.P. Morgan, killed the project with one question.
How do you put a meter on that?
That's right.
In other words, how do you make money off of it?
Do you think we have free energy?
And if so, who would control that energy?
I think we probably have something close to it.
We meaning military contractors, like we don't have it, and I don't think we'll ever have
it.
Oil is just so good for all kinds of stuff.
you know, making money, making war,
making money and making power,
then we're going to stick with that for a long time.
So there's a lot of energy technology
that I think is suppressed.
I don't have any evidence of it.
You've got inventors that have heart attacks
and go missing.
I have a lot those through the years,
whether it's a water car or a sparky sweep
with his zero point electricity device.
He's my favorite sparky
because he actually shows the thing on camera.
that's that's unusual it's one thing to talk about the pyramids because nobody knows but sparky's
like here look all this stuff is running off of the box and there's no wires so you know this guy
live no no no he so he he went public with his device and i tell this on my show if you know
how to do this don't tell anybody just work on it and then just public domain it you'll get rich
don't don't patent anything uh so sparky went public avec this someone from the military got
like, I'll help you with this and help them. And then he gets someone
visits him from somewhere. I don't want to get it wrong, but he
someone visits him that allegedly it's like the men in suits
type of thing. And they leave and a few hours later Sparky has a
heart attack. Ambulance comes they grab and they won't let the
wife in the ambulance or anything like that this she has to stay
home ambulance goes Sparky dies. A couple of trucks come up and
they empty out his garage and all his equipment and it's all gone.
And that's then that's the story. That's kind of how it ends.
And most of that happened.
Now, did he have a free energy device?
I don't know, but it's the video that he takes.
It's very compelling.
Like, it's not AI.
And I'm looking, like, frame by frame,
like, where's the trick?
Because there's a trick in here somewhere,
but I can't find it.
Like, he's just got one wire
and he's got the voltimeter on there,
and you can see it's,
and it gives you as much energy as you need.
He's like, plug in the fan.
Fan, fans take up a ton of energy.
Lights, everything, he just,
whatever you plug in, it'll just pull it out of there.
And that's part of the zero point
theory is that it gives you whatever energy you need, because so much of it shows up in
the UFO lore all the time that these craft are powered by these little boxes that can power
a city. They can power the world. Whatever energy you
need, you just plug it in and it just pulls it out of the vacuum. And we know the vacuum
is full of energy. So it's got to go somewhere. So I think we probably have it. We're definitely
working on it. You know, like is anti-gravity, zero point energy, they're definitely working
about it and I don't think we'd ever ever gonna find out we need someone to invent it and then
just go big and public domain it it's tough with this one because this is where I get a little off
base so it the obvious like the average person here is that and they're like well why wouldn't
they just want everyone to have free stuff and it's like and then the person says well because
they want to make money off it but then I'm like why do they care about money so much if it's
kind of thing, or do you see money as like a controlled type of thing?
Well, I mean, if it gives you as much energy as you want, like there's unlimited,
there's no one really in control of that.
Right.
That was Tesla's dream was like anybody can just plug into the tower.
And think of what would that mean for like the African continent if suddenly they just had free energy.
Right.
There would never be a need.
Every war is fought for oil.
Every war that I could think of as far for oil, or at least resources.
But if you solve the energy problem, then what are you fighting over now?
Like you can build anything.
Energy is just free.
Hmm.
More of the last words of the guy who invented a water powered car.
Stanley Meyer's last words were, I was poisoned.
Stanley Meyer was an inventor who created, he's famous for the water car.
This is in the 90s.
And it ran just on regular water through a technology called electrolysis.
You take H2O, you hit it with high, with high energy, and it splits off into high energy.
hydrogen and oxygen, and you use the hydrogen as energy. That works. So he created this water
car that drove all around the country. He had engineers looking at it. They couldn't debunk it.
And he was at a, I think it's at a cracker barrel. Now, the story I heard was that he was with
some investors from like the Netherlands or Belgium, something like that. There's another version
where he's talking to NATO members or something likethat. Whatever it is, they're toasting this
because that's a great place, terrible. And they toast and he's
like, something's happened to him, he runs out. And he's like,
he dies basically in the street, his brother chases after him,
and he tells his brother, I was poisoned. Now they do toxicology on
him later, they don't find any evidence of poison. Official cause
of death is aneurysm. And Stanley had high blood pressure. So
that that makes sense. Maybe he was excited and had an
aneurysm. But for the autopsy, it is kind of
It's not definitive.
There's something weird about the autopsy report if you read it.
What's not, and that's a great story, what's not commonly told is a court found him,
I don't want to say convicted, but found him as a fraud.
They said technology is fraudulent.
So he was, a court, found him a fraud, so I'm skeptical of the story.
But that technology works.
Electrolysis is a real thing.
But as we know it, it's smart.
not Sparky Stanleys would violate the law of thermodynamics.
Like however much energy you get out of electrolysis,
you have to put more in to get that energy out
because of thermo dynamics.
So Stanles didn't have that.
He just put water in.
And to get electrolysis to work, you need perfect water.
Like you need H2O with nothing in it.
And we don't, and that's very hard to get.
Like this is not perfect water,
and the tap is definitely not.
It's full of all kinds of stuff.
The fluoride for the mind control,
but also the minerals and all kinds
stuff.
But his just ran on tap water.
He just went to the tap and poured it in.
So that's why it was bananas.
Is there anything on the fluoride one?
Think a little bit.
Really?
Yeah, I think a little.
Huh.
It's just, you know, that one's been marginalized so much
that I'm still, because I'm a lot older than you.
So when I was growing up, like the dinosaur is being killed
by an asteroid, it was like, you can't say that.
That's bananas.
So I'm so kind of wired to be very careful
about what I say, I believe.
But yeah, there's something to it.
uh to the fluoride is as making us more obedient there's something to it hmm like you don't want to
have too much fluoride now and I don't I use fluoride toothpaste or on tap water I'm doing any of that
yeah me either but I I think about it and I'm like well when they said fluoride was bad what did I do
I just bought another toothpaste brand.
And when they said that the water was turned
the frogs whatever I I started drinking like glass water plastic bottles of
water and I'm like I just feel like I'm spending more money in the first place
being manipulated anyway yeah by Tom's toothpaste company but did scientists
find a two billion year old nuclear reactor they did find one that's that's
the aqua react reactor they found that in a in Gabon in West Africa that was
uranium reactor, they discovered that
the uranium ore there which that's where it's mined which had uranium 235 for some reason it was
throwing off uh uterine 235 which shouldn't happen that that's you know only a nuclear reactor would
do that to create that isotope as we knew it but what happened there was the uranium back
two billion years ago was much richer than it is now i mean much richer and if you have enough
sea water, salt water, that you pour into
to that thing, you can create fusion. That's just the science works. We couldn't do it now. The
uranium is just too depleted. But back then, you definitely could. And I think that's, you know,
the conspiracy is that there were aliens and had a nuclear war and stuff like that. I don't believe
that at all. I think it's way cooler that the Earth created a nuclear fusion reactor before
there were humans. I believe that's way colder. And it didn't create that much energy anyway.
We're talking maybe 20, 25 kilowatts. But it did it for, oh, like years and years and
years. It ran and then powered down.
to come back on like it was it's really it's a really strange story like nobody thought that was
possible hmm so you think it was just a natural occurrence i do this is a good follow-up to our
last podcast uh where the guests posed an idea about nuclear do you think nuclear bombs are real
i do think they're real well your guests didn't think they were real i'm gonna have to watch that
Have you dove into that one or has that? No, not cost.
I don't think I bet.
even heard that huh because we've seen nuclear tests so does he think the nuclear tests that we've
like on film or fake yeah he's shown videos of them and they did look a little weird i'm gonna
have to look into that that's pretty fun huh i hope he's right it's great propaganda you you
would need coordination from from enemy nations to do it but i think there's some coordination
at some level, the enemy nations.
Right.
Cause I had asked, uh, when I had talked,
I was like, was it every country that we shut down for, for COVID?
And it was like most of them.
And I was, like, well, that seems coordinated to an extent.
It certainly does.
Yeah, I mean, enemy nation's coordinated in Wuhan lab.
That's certainly true.
So why not coordinate on something else?
Right.
Certainly do.
And something I said about it was that once a lie is told, if the person who told the lie dies, then the lie kind of sticks.
You know?
of sticks. There's no reason
that like the current administration in office like in China and Russia or US would have to know
that they're real you know like there's there's no reason that the president would have
to know that a nuclear bomb is real no it's he can go and see it um like a missile he doesn't know
what's in it but I had never heard that story but that's that's a pretty good one I hope it's true
you hope it sure why would you hope that's true that we don't that there's
no such thing as nuclear weapons that oh because you don't have to worry about the threat yeah
nuclear warfare. That is what the guest is.
say he said that's why he cared about that specific conspiracy theory because he's like i'm glad i
know this one because i don't have to have that anxiety anymore well people my age gen xers
that was our biggest anxiety we thought the nuclear war was going to start any day that's how we
grew up with just this low burning anxiety all the time about the soviet union that's
how we grew up is that the missiles are coming we would do drills in school under the desk it was
scary. That was it, that was the only thing that bothered JetX. That's why we're so
It's like, we live through the Cold War, this is easy.
We had Michael Jackson, things were good.
Our parents were never around, it was awesome.
Michael Jackson.
You've talked about a 29-story skyscraper in the middle of Manhattan
with no windows, no lights, no offices, and no people.
What's the one cell phone provider you wouldn't use?
Well, rather than say the provider,
I'll say that building is the AT&T Long Lines building.
33 Thomas Street. So that's the AT&T long lines building. But the
NSA coordinates with all the mobile providers. So they're
capturing all our data anyway. So it doesn't matter 18 T T
mobile, whoever it is, they're capturing our data.
Are they particularly like, Lex about sharing it though,
AT & T or do you think it's?
No, it's coordinated.
It's all yeah, they yeah. Well, this is in the Snowden, the
Snowden documents. That's how we learned about Thomas
Street. It's a code named Titan Point. And it's a weird
building and
It was designed by AT&T to, as kind of a communications and power hub to survive a nuclear war. That's why it looks so weird. There's no windows on it because there's really no one in there. And it's just, it's a crazy building. I'm from New York. I walked by it, I don't know, a million times. I never noticed it. But once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's hardly anybody there. 18T will not acknowledge any of this, even though we saw the Snowden documents that came out, we know something was up. We know the NSA and the government was
inside of google inside of yahoo like in your google drive they can see all of it uh in the
presentation they even had little smiley face emojis in there like yeah we did it yay so we know
that's in there we know that james clapper was confronted about it and lied to congress twice
so it doesn't matter what provider you have it's all that data is being captured it's
all we're being watched every second there are other creators i talk to that we don't use our
We use secure comms to talk about stuff.
Because some of these creators-
I'm tempted to ask what the secured comms would be.
I just, I wouldn't guess that there'd be any.
Just apps that are hyper, hyper encrypted.
Right.
When I think about that, I think of like levels of access, perhaps.
You know, like maybe someone could get this app, but less people could get
this app?
I think so.
I think it's just, it just is less easy.
Right.
Some of these folks are definitely being monitored.
I doubt I am.
I don't think anyone cares about the guy with the fish, but I never had an issue.
or an incident that would lead me to believe that I'm a troublemaker.
But I talk to a few, because I'm not really political or anything like that.
But I talked with you.
And we know they're listening and capturing our data.
It's so easy to get a FISA warrant.
It's ridiculous.
The Patriot Act gets renewed by every administration.
Republican, Democrat, doesn't matter.
They keep renewing it.
We don't need it.
It can go away.
We don' need Homeland Security.
That can go way.
Mockingbird, I've talked about that.
about it a few times.
Have you?
Yeah.
In the 70s, CIA paid journalists, news anchors, writers to spread different messages.
You said it's quote still going on and that some of the people still reading to you on
the news are on the payroll and that you know some of their names.
How many people?
You know, I can think of five off the top of my head that for sure assets.
I'm not going to name them because they'll find out.
know who they are.
All you have to do is listen to them talk and you'll see the clues.
Look at their names and you will research their names, check into their backgrounds, you'll
find weird things.
Are they connected to intelligence in any way?
Have they had strange changes of opinion or ideology that seem to flip on a dime at any
point in the recent history?
Just look into that and you're like, oh, this person totally flip-flopped on this suddenly
or this person is in a different relationship.
has different types of guests on their show.
So there's five off the top of my head.
There's definitely more, but I don't really watch cable news.
I don'n't think at all anymore.
You know, I get my news from YouTube.
I try to watch all sides, and it's just a lot harder to get an asset in YouTube because
once somebody's not trusted on YouTube, they're kind of dead and we'll just go find somebody
else to watch.
Do you watch Cable News?
For fun.
For entertainment, that's fine.
Yeah.
Fox and CNN are both very funny.
They're entertaining.
I just always find it interesting to see what they're talking about.
You know, it's like, really?
I didn't think of that that way.
But do all the people that are on this type of payroll, do you think they know?
Not all of them know, I don't think.
Most of them do, but not all of the new.
I don' think the CIA still admitted to Mockingbird.
It was Carl Bernstein went back and actually saw it.
wasn't 40 journalists, it was 400 and the heads of the network were involved. And these journalists
were getting stories killed or getting stories out there coming directly from the CIA. Some
journalists were bag men carrying money for the agency. Some journalists would let the agency
use their hotel room. Like some of them liked, thought they were serving their country,
their patriots. That's cool. Some of them like to play spy. Some
of them just liked money. It's not, I think it's pretty simple. If I gave
you enough money, you will say what I need you to say.
Right.
Have you ever submitted a FOIA request?
No, I never have.
My show is so turned and burned so fast, you know, they take months.
And I don't look that far ahead.
I'm like a dog.
I only see my next meal.
I'm only working on my next episode.
I know what I'm going to do in six months.
And that's never tempted you.
Like there's never like one thing.
No, because I'm not, I don' consider myself like in the UFO community or I'm
not an analyst.
I'm not an analyst, I'm
not a debunker, really.
I'm a story
teller. So I just want to tell the story. Do I believe in time storms? No, I don't believe that.
But it's such a good story. A mist and it grows the beard and the clock. That's what I do.
You just tell the Story. I'm not sure if you've done a deep dive on algorithms specifically
on your channel, but you talked about dead internet theory. But if you had to guess from a technical
perspective, what prompt would you use to recreate our current social media algorithms?
an app where I'll be shown content that reinforces my worldview severely and show me content that
is the complete opposite of my worldview that makes me really angry that gets me engaged so I can
sell ads on that engagement. That would be the prompt I would use. So like Facebook, we just made
Facebook. You think it's as simple as that? I do. Get people angry because it's just engagement.
that's what a business is supposed to do we're just supposed to make money and that's how they
do that and facebook makes a lot of money on ads ads only work if someone looks at them so we
need you on the platform and the best way to stay on the platforms is get you fighting with each
other that's why i tell people don't do it i can't remember the last time i logged on to facebook
do you think it's more sophisticated than that ever if you gave an example i can give an opinion
but i don't i think it was just money you mentioned assets that could potentially be online like
how to algorithm
interact with those types of people.
I don't know if they do.
It might not be necessary.
Because algorithms are not motivated by anything.
People are.
You know, money is very motivating, especially lots of it.
And if you're the government, you have unlimited money.
You can just print it.
So I think it's as simple as that.
Like would you do this for a million dollars?
No.
A hundred million dollars.
Hmm.
Half a billion dollars?
I mean, we're...
I feel like I don't have a price, but of course I do.
I mean, everybody has a price.
What's the most interesting thing someone with influence
has told you about how power actually works?
It's hard to answer without outing people.
Because I have spoken to people with influence
about how it power actually looks.
Kind of dark.
Like people are disposable.
People, assassinations are just, they're totally justified.
And I think kind of even self-justified, like this person had to tie, had to die for the
greater good, or this had to happen for the greater good.
This plane had to be shot down, or, you know, this journalist has to be silenced.
It's just for the great good.
I think there's a lot of that.
That's, that's how it really works.
And our multi-tiered system where, no.
can get in trouble for just about anything.
You know, we can speed and get a ticket, but there are people that can just kill other
people and they're fine, you know, or they can hurt somebody and they are fine because
they have connections or they have lawyers or they
have money that doesn't apply to us.
We see it all the time.
You know some senator drives off a bridge and someone gets killed and never has to answer
for it, stuff like that.
We can't get away with that.
We can get away you know dead people.
Right.
What do you think is the best story the CIA has ever told us?
The best story.
JFK is a pretty good one.
Maybe just because it's one of my favorites.
I'd have to think on that.
If you have a specific one, I can weigh in.
I mean, this isn't CIA, but you made a video about how in 1943 British intelligence took the body of a homeless man who died from rat poison.
Yes, I know this one.
who created James Bond, tricked the Nazis into defending the wrong country.
Okay.
That's a good story.
At the beginning of World War II, the Nazis were very, very strong.
Like they were almost unstoppable, especially because of the Soviet Union working with them
as well.
So Nazis are very very strong and there was no way for the Allies to penetrate.
The Allies could not go east.
There was no, D-Day was like a nightmare and that was later.
There's no way to get
to the east. So what Churchill wanted to do is attack what he called the soft underbelly
of the Europe, which has come to the Mediterranean, and they wanted to attack Sicily. And if
you get Sicily, you get Italy, and Mussolini is done. You get Italy you get Europe. But
Sicily was heavily defended by the Germans. So they were like, how can we, they were
planning for this invasion. It was going to be a bloodbath, but they, and like thousands
the troops were going to die, hundreds of boats.
So, how are we going to do this?
And that someone comes across something called the Trout Memo, and it's got all these crazy
ideas for military.
And one of the items on the Trap Memo was, here's a crazy idea, not a very nice one,
I think it's said.
And the trout memo was written by, I forget the general's name, but it was actually written
by his aide, who was Ian Fleming, who wrote the James Bond books.
what the idea was is.
you put some false papers on like an airman and have him perish look like a parachute accident
have his body wash up and the documents are found and that will that can maybe get them to defend
the wrong country so they spun up what's called operation mincemeat they called it that because
you know what mince meat is it's like the really sliced thin meat right yeah squares yeah and it's
scrap is around and sometimes fruit and sugar and alcohol, like it's on a British eat weird
stuff. And they called it that because the body was rotting. So that's why they called that.
So they had this idea that they would wash a soldier on shore with these classified papers
that says the Allies are going to attack Greece. And if they can get Hitler convinced to pull
out of Sicily and go defend Greece, Sicily is wide open. So they find a homeless guy and
gave him a false identity.
They give him a false fiancée.
They give them a uniform.
Um, they give him the papers.
They keep him, like he's on ice for months and months
while they're coordinating this.
The story, there's a lot of good aspects of the story
where the corpse is being driven in the middle of the night,
down through England, all the lights are out,
and it's being driven by this crazy guy who drives the military
that's like legally blind but won't wear glasses
because he always wants to look dapper.
And he's famous for driving in Aston Martin.
So he becomes like part of the gene.
bomb war this this driver they drive the corpse down they put it on a sub and have hit the corpse
in like a coffin and the coffin comes up and they're like trying to sink the coffin they're
shooting it but we can't have like a body wash up and then a coffin with bullet holes that's not
cool so they just kind of set off an explosion and that works this guy's body washes up on onto
the shore it's found and they do this in Spain because Spain was technically neutral but Spain
And everybody knew that.
So it's like, we put it on Spain and it'll get to Hitler.
So the plan was, we'll give it, send this paperwork, gets to Hitler, we have to confirm
that Hitler gets it, get the body back.
So the soldier washes up on there and England calls the Spanish and says, hey, we had an
accident at sea or whatever.
One of our officers were looking for his body and he had a briefcase or something.
If you, you know, if you see that, and they're like, oh, let's look, but they found it already.
And what the British did was they put these false papers in an envelope with an eyelash
in it so that that's how they would know if the paper was opened, like the eyelash would
be gone because it was in this envelope was like wax sealed.
Like it was like legit like really look like classified documents.
So the papers do get to the Nazis and what they do is they stick this wire into the envelope
and they take the wire, wrap it around the note, the papers into a tight scroll so tight
it out through just through the slit they papers they make a copy of it they drench it in sea water
roll it up throw it back in and the papers find their way to hitler and hitler pulls out of
sicily and some of his officers are like don't don't this is not this is all nonsense this is
crazy that we just find this and hella was like no no it's it's legit so they pull out and the
allies invade Sicily and it's i don't want to say cakewalk because i know like 1200 soldiers
died, but that's better than 12,000. They lost
like 14 boats instead of 500. And they're able to land there. And it's considered one of the
turning points of the war because it's 1943. And after that, Hitler just starts losing. It really
starts losing, um, Barbarossa, I think is around that, is it that same year? So everything just
kind of turns against Hitler there. They finally get the papers back and the eyelash is gone and
it dries out and it just goes up into a scroll and they're like, we got it. That, that worked.
guy i think it was like a martin something like thomas martin or something like that he's buried
with honors there in in southern spain did he volunteer for that no he was he was homeless
he didn't volunteer for it was just a body they had oh so he'd passed yeah yeah he was a homeless
guy who died of rat poison okay so the word went out like one of the offices like i know a guy
who's a coroner so he called this buddy he's like i need a 20 20 to 30 year old you know white male
in good condition.
that we can fake a drowning.
So he's like, I got a rat poison.
You know, that's what his corpse guy said.
I got rat poison guy.
He's like all right, that'll work.
So they-
The whole idea is from Ian Fleming
who made James Bond.
Yes, it's from that trout memo
that Ian Flemming wrote,
or at least contributed to this idea
of Operation Mincemeet.
And he eventually went on to write the James Bond books.
And a lot of, James Bond is a composite character
based on a lot the men who served on this mission,
like the driver.
Right.
In the 1991 Gulf War
to
Iraq and the US tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers surrendered without a fight some say the military
used silent sound messages of fear buried under ordinary radio that the brain hears but the ear
doesn't do you believe the military can broadcast an emotion straight to your head I think they
can broadcast something that can trigger an emotion it is a pretty long history of that with the
military and the CIA I think it was called Operation Phoenix and I could be wrong on that I
Bye.
think it might have been which was it in vietnam they would broadcast kind of these spooky sounds
into the jungle but also these frequencies and people were freaking out from it you know because
even if you're not sending a frequency that's like synced up with your brain however crazy that
works even if it's like just a really low kind of that deep base you can feel that you can't feel
in your gut and then on top of that you hear like this horrible ghost screeching sound and you're
just a village in the jungle, that's going to have an effect on
people and definitely did I don't know if that's why the soldiers surrendered I I
don't think so I think it was shock and awe they were like that the US has a lot
of there's a lot of guns and tanks so maybe let's not do this but we know they
definitely were trying stuff like that I do there was one radio I think that was
found at a CIA office that was on the roof I'd have to go back and look at my
notes on that on that particular event I didn't even think I covered it but I
think some equipment was found in Iraq like what is this here for
They also, wait, no, this was in the Vietnam War, where they took advantage of the fact
that they believed in vampires.
That's the one.
That's that's that operation.
It was.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
And it definitely scared villagers.
Didn't scare the soldiers as much.
I think about the fact that they took
advantage of that they believe in vampires a lot.
I think that connects to a lot of interesting ideas.
But what do you think the military's Medusa weapon is capable of?
The Medusa weapons?
I don't think I know that one.
not the one that can broadcast.
Oh, that might be the operation.
Oh,
that's,
that's the operation,
okay.
Um,
I think it's just meant,
I don't think the military is trying to do brain waves or anything like that.
I don' think they're that sophisticated.
I think,
it's more about this,
this low frequency that makes you feel uneasy.
Although the Havana attacks,
I think there's something to that,
but that,
that for me,
that would be more CIA than military,
which I,
I don,
I don'T necessarily connect those to.
I think the CIA is kind of the,
It's yeah, it's the same.
civilian operation allegedly, paramilitary at this point.
So I don't, yeah, I think CIA maybe goes in first and gets things set and then you send
a military to overthrow the quote unquote democratically elected dictator or whoever, whoever they're
deposing.
Interesting.
So you would guess that one of their objectives might be the concept of like quiet, quitting,
like feeling like you've already lost.
Well, of course.
I mean, that's with the, we were talking about Operation Mince Me.
the trap memo a lot of those were how to how to manipulate the battlefield without fighting at all
hmm you know you've heard about the allies just staging like rubber tanks and like stand-up dummies
so that the nazis would think like oh there's that's they're staging ground so they're going to
invade at at you know calais instead of normandy beach that really worked to some extent they would
fly over and take pictures like holy there's a ton of tanks and soldiers down there but they were
all like inflatables you know it's all floaties um so it kind of worked do you think more money
you
spent on psych warfare or actual boots of the ground military weaponry no i think more spent on the
hardware just because it's so expensive you know loki's got they got them money but just because
it's all expensive that's an interesting answer yeah yeah that's that's the best reason to use it
is because it is expensive uh i'm cynical with the government and military spending because the
manipulating the mind and consciousness is pretty cheap you know radio waves it's not expensive
Um, MK ultra didn't have a huge budget, you know, didn't
have that big of a budget. They really needed LSD was cheap. Um,
prostitutes are cheap. I mean, allegedly, I don't have that much
experience, but you know it, it's all pretty cheap and if human
lives are disposable, you're just getting, getting them high
and watching what happens. That's pretty cheap.
Half of those people volunteer.
I just didn't know what it was like the Ski experiment.
Do you think Google was created?
by the U.S. government?
No, I don't think so.
But Google did receive a lot of early funding from DARPA.
I mean, that's not only is it documented,
I think, I dunno if it was Sergei,
in one of his early papers,
he thanked DARPA for their support.
And you could do a money trail
on early Google investors
and see front companies for CIA.
You could see it's there.
And they're thanking DARPA,
so clearly there's some early influence.
But I don'T think DARPA went out
and created Google.
I think...
DARPA herd that, hey, they've got this algorithm that can, you're too young to remember. But I grew
up with like Alta Vista and stuff. So if you search for, I don't know, hiking boots, you would get
links for hiking and links for boots. You wouldn't get anything that was useful. So Google creates
this algorithm, that you can target exactly what somebody's looking for. I think the government
was like, that could be really useful for like propaganda and stuff and tracking people,
you know, what's this cookie technology? What's a cookie? It's like, oh, you have
I have no idea what a session cookie is, man.
You can just follow them everywhere and see everything that they do.
I think the government was like, yeah, we want a piece of that.
Let's give those guys a couple of bucks and let's do some business.
I think that's kind of what happened.
But our government is not smart enough to create Google.
That has to come from the private sector.
So you don't think DARPA is an ultra, like has the best people working for them?
DARPA, the best, that's hard to say because we don't even know what their budget fully
is.
And DARPA's only a few hundred people.
I'm sure there's brilliant minds in there.
But I don't know.
I think that the smartest people are going to go into the private sector, make not just
for the money, but for the freedom.
If I was going to create an invention, I think I'd rather just create it and hire my friends
and people I want to work with and make a bunch of money than go sit in an office and make
$65,000 with a lousy health plan.
I don' think I would do that.
So the best and brightest, I don t'end up in government.
That being said, there is a lot of black budget money going somewhere.
So it's very possible there are brilliant minds working in the government that are making a ton of money that we just don't see.
That wouldn't surprise me.
It's like, oh, on the books, he's 65,000 of a lousy health plan, but he's got $12 million in a Swiss bank account.
We know that that happens.
That makes more sense to me.
I was thinking you were suggesting it's more like investment fund kind of thing.
The CIA has that.
Right.
Yeah, they have plenty. They have venture capital.
capital.
But that's not the main function.
There's probably just people getting paid well.
I think it's just people being paid well, I mean, as an American, you know, I'm anti-government
than anti-war, but I'm pro-American.
So I want America to have the coolest stuff.
I want us have the best stuff.
I want to have to the best military.
You know, and I don't want us to waste so much money on it.
And I'd like a little bit more transparency.
But I'm not saying dismantle the CIA.
I would be crazy.
Right.
There's plenty of stuff that you could dismantle.
But you definitely need to rein in the CIA.
could definitely cut NSA's budget by,
they only need 10% of that money.
You can cut all their stuff,
but I still want them there.
You know, you need me on that wall,
you want me on the wall, I remember,
a few good men, Jack Nicholson.
It's like, what they do is ugly
and it's something you don't wanna talk about,
but you're just glad they're out there.
I am.
I'm cynical, but I want them to have the best stuff.
Speaking of dismantling the CIA,
what do you think most people
misunderstand about JFK's assassination?
You know, it's hard to say now because I think most people believe it was a conspiracy at this point.
I think that I think we're at a time in history where the majority of people don't believe
the official narrative, the lone gunman narrative.
So we've come a long way.
You know in the 60s, you couldn't say, you wouldn't say there was any type of conspiracy.
because you were marginalized.
That was that memo, that CIA memo in 1967.
So it was very hard to do any research or anything
because the CIA was, you know, they're working with,
you've got CIA resources, they were working with the mob.
You know, you could order a mob hit on you.
It was all things that really happened.
Working with the FBI, you don't know, killing Black Panthers,
you know.
People saw that happening.
So it's like, I'm just not going to make any waves.
But now I don't think anybody believes
Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.
I mean, do you?
I just kind of look at what did this person say
or try to push before they died.
I mean Lee Harvey Oswald?
Like JFK, for instance.
Well, he tried to, his quote was,
the CIA should be scattered into a thousand pieces,
the pieces scattered into the wind or something like that.
He wanted to, he fired Alan Dulles.
I mean that was the end of JFK right there.
fiery Alan Dulles. But after he was burned in the Bay of Pigs, he said, I'm never going to trust
the CIA again. And he used to talk to Eisenhower quite a bit. And Eisenhower said, don't you
can't trust the CIA. You know, the Isaiah said the military industrial complex on his way out
the doors and you can't make war profitable, you always have war. And, and he mentored JFK a little
bit. They, I mean, we have recordings of them talking in the Oval Office. It's kind of amazing.
But as soon as JFK was burned, in the bay of Piggs, he says, no, no more CIA. He's
he wanted to get rid of it. He talked about this dark cabal and he hinted at some of like weird
occultism and stuff that he talked about in some speeches. He wanted it to go away. He felt like
they were operating on their own because they kind of were and he had to go. I think that's as simple
as that. He was going to dismantle the CIA so he was killed for that. Seems fairly compelling to me.
Yeah, I mean, he fired Alan Dulles, and then the Warren Commission was...
headed by Alan Dulles.
So the guy in charge of investigating his murder
was the guy that hated him, that he fired.
Alan Dalles was in the CIA for,
since the Second World War.
So he was in OSS in Switzerland
and then becomes head of CIA for 20 some years.
And he and his brother were like Nazi collaborators
and stuff, I'm gonna do a whole series
on the Dallas brothers.
I think it's saved by now.
So of course, it's like, to me it's obvious.
He's gotta go.
What do you think would
happen if a kid were president?
I think young is probably good.
I guess the question under the question here is, what do you think the effects would be?
I'm definitely sick of the old dudes.
Definitely sick of that.
But there's something to be said for wisdom and life experience.
There really is.
And it's kind of what the founding fathers had in mind when they put a minimum age in there
of 35, because that doesn't really exist anywhere else.
And to them, 35 was pretty old, you know, with life expectancy, 54, whatever it was back then.
So they wanted a little bit of wisdom and experience. That was the kind of the, you need that.
Would I want a 24 year old running the country? Absolutely not. I remember being 24. I was so stupid.
Right. I didn't know anything. You don't know nothing until you're like 30. That's when you start
to learn stuff. And then when you're 36, you realize you didn't do anything again. And it kind of,
it goes like that. So yeah, I wouldn't go lower than 35 for sure. But there's something
about the um the the youthful energy but also kind of the the progressive not the not the
ideological progressive but the progressive attitude of like moving us forward a little bit as opposed
to status quo i feel like we've got a lot of status quo these last four or five administrations
so you think the president has some degree of power enough to where you he has a lot
of power he has a lot of power i'm not as much as he thinks he does
But he has a lot of power over us.
You know, executive orders are a law until someone says otherwise saying he's a lot
of power for us.
This is my belief as well.
I was just curious where you're at on that one, because a lot people are just like, oh,
the president can't do anything.
But like, it seems to me that the President can do stuff and everything else that's going
on is just like a very complicated system of trying to deal with the system that was put
there.
I think that's exactly right.
Because the President CAN do stuff.
I mean, President Trump is releasing UFO stuff.
Mm-hmm.
know how much is true it's propaganda i don't know any of that but stuff's happening you've got some
jfk's documents released those are things we wanted um some other things we want like epstein
files not we didn't get so much he didn't have the power there so i guess it really depends on
on the on the target right in 2011 you and your brother gino started a weed company
from your living room uh you engineered the thc extraction yourself from a 1976 ucla chemistry
this question coming.
And your company was the one that sold THC gummies to celebrities.
Yes.
Before you started a conspiracy theory,
celebrities. Yes. Before you started the conspiracy theory podcast, were you Joe Rogan's weed dealer?
My brother was. Like, you know, the famous clip of Elon Musk smoking the joint that made
everybody crazy. That was like, that was our stuff. That Was Geno's weed. Really? Yeah. We,
once a year, we would give Joe just a big box of all kinds of different products. And he would
just promote the company. He talked about, it's the company of speed weed. He talks about the
speed weed all the time. And that's how Joe and my brother became friends. They've been friends
this point. And it was because Gino was Joe's weed dealer. You know, we did delivery in the early
days of cannabis when it was kind of the Wild West. And we did it on a very professional way,
like delivery before them was like, he called a number and it's kind of weird. Um, with us,
you go on a website and site, it's like this is an e-commerce site. You, you're able to track
your driver in real time. Like even before Uber existed, you were doing driver tracking
and it was just professionally run. So when you get it delivered from us, it felt like a thing.
and feel sketchy.
Were you like inspired to get interested in conspiracies
by selling THC gummies to Rogan?
Or is there a more important part of your backstory
to understand why you do what you do?
No, I got interested in the weird stuff
because dad used to listen to Art Bell.
But Art Bell didn't do a lot of conspiracies.
The conspiracies come from me being sort of anti-authority,
like anti-government.
I don't like being told what to do.
And the conspiracies just line up well with the content.
Like the people who are into UFOs, they're kind of into conspiracies also.
So I didn't do a lot of conspiracies early on because I didn's, it wasn't really my thing.
You know, I believe JFK conspiracy and all of that, but I wouldn't have covered it.
It was only when people started asking for like, hey, what really happened here?
I heard this.
And then I would look into it and be like, oh, this is a cool story.
Right.
But it wasn'T really something I was drawn to.
Hmm.
What were you like in a high school?
Were you ever interested in this stuff?
Not really.
Or did it kind of come all at once?
No, not really.
I mean, I was, I think I was kind of a normal kid.
I got good grades.
I was social enough.
I don't, you know, I wasn't weird.
I still talked to some of the, some of guys back, back home, but no, a lot of, a
lot of the conspiracy was just sort of an accident with the YouTube channel.
I wasn' really doing conspiracy anything before YouTube, which is just, I'm not going
I don't know, five years ago, it was just the stuff that people liked.
And you know, I didn't know anything about Operation Mongoose or Phoenix or any of this
stuff.
It's just in researching, you start, it starts to get sticky.
Like oh, I remember that from another episode, because especially early on, I just knew anything
about the topic until I started it.
Like if someone said, hey, can you look into this?
I'd first be like, I dunno what Operation Mongoose is, but three people have asked for it.
So it must be cool.
So then I'd look it up.
be like, oh, there's a story here, and then you learn. And then you start to do JFK, and you see
a connection, and the Mori Island UFO incident is somehow connected to JFK and flying saucers.
You just start to make the connections, which makes the stories better also. If you've covered all
this stuff before, you can bring in some links that are interesting. It's like, it's almost like
a callback. Oh, you guys remember this one? Here it is again. Yeah. I wish I had a show
formatted like yours. I feel like mine is so guest dependent.
It's always like me putting the patterns together because I feel like people aren't watching like all the episodes.
They're watching like a few that are guest in a similar niche.
But I'm like, this person said this thing.
He was like a high school science teacher and has to do with this conspiracy theory, you know.
But I'll just ask this out of my curiosity.
How many videos have you like not done?
Like, is there like topics that?
Yeah, there are a lot.
I mean, I won't do topics that will get demonetized.
It's my living.
So I'd love to do a COVID series and get a lot of that information out there, but I won't do that just yet.
I have a good relationship with YouTube.
You know, they let me do a lot, but there's some stuff that I just can't do.
There are some topics that you just cannot do.
Even weird ones, even ones that I want to talk about because I've been instructed.
How many of those?
Not that many.
And I don't know what they are until I ask.
Like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this.
And they would be like, don't do That one.
ever filmed a video? And someone was like, maybe don't do that?
Yep. I've had, I have had videos totally taken down by the platform. Uh, there are videos on there
that you can, you cannot find. You can go through like my archives and, and get to them. And
you'll find like some old ones that I, oh, I didn't know he did this. It's like, yeah, you didn't
know, cause it's totally, totally off the algorithm, like to do not push it. And I've
had some videos that are just yanked. I had one just yanking the other day that it was like
four years old. And, and we're like, why did you pull that one? They're like oh, we don't
We don't like this anymore.
Then, okay.
I noticed looking through your videos that there would occasionally be like a random
20 seconds cut out of something?
Yes.
That it looked like it was done after the video was uploaded?
Yeah.
You know, it might have been just a copyright thing because once you commit the video,
as you know, you can't edit it.
You know so if it's up there for a couple of days and you get a bunch of views and YouTube
doesn't want it, you have to make the decision.
do i fix it because then i have to re-upload it and start again right which i usually don't i have
in some cases though i have done had video pulled down i did a full read edit on just to make it
compliant but for the most part i just stay away from topics that make people angry i don't do
politics too much you know i do left and right because i'm not a left-right guy i'm more of
like people versus power that's that's kind of my angle it's pretty rare my that yeah that
You see.
think it's rare? From people that make content. I've noticed. Yeah, I'm, I found myself a lot
on the podcast being like, wait, why aren't we talking about like people versus power? You know,
it's like always this subgroup of this thing, you know? Ah, right. It's the Democrats, it's the
Republicans. That's none of that. What's the strangest coincidence in history you've ever come
The Lincoln JFK coincidences are pretty cool.
You know how Lincoln was killed at Ford's theater and Kennedy was killed in a Ford Lincoln.
And Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's was named Lincoln, same number of letters in their name,
same number letters in the names of their assassins, that kind of stuff.
I think that's cool coincidences.
You can make things fit if you look hard enough.
You know, like Lee Harvey Oswald is his same, he used three names.
John Wilkes Booth used three names, but that's not really why they do that. They do that so there's
not a confusion in, you know, he was called Lee Oswald. He didn't go by Harvey and he was just
called John Booth. No, actually he went by Wilkes. They had the middle name so there was not a
confusion with like other people with the same name. That makes sense. Yeah. So you could just
make things fit. I don't believe in like the same number of letters. I'm not a numerology guy.
I think. Really? Yeah, no. I think it's, I think a lot of it's nonsense.
Math and numbers are fun.
There's lots of fun stuff with math and numbers.
Yeah, the numerology one's funny because there's something there, but it could be Dunning-Kruger.
But I also think that if a lot of people think that something's there and those people happen to have influence, then something actually is there.
You know what I mean?
Sure. It's worth looking at.
You know, it's like if the people who, I don't know, make all the decisions and have the most amount of money,
money believe in numerology than it sure to pop up it's a fair point you know a lot of the powerful
people believed in the occult and and Satanism and all that do you think they actually do I do I
do I mean we know for sure like Alan Dulles and and some of the wealthiest Americans used to do
seances all the time and Alistair Crowley had influence on a lot people and a lot
of influence on Jack Parsons it was like started JPL like all just a lot a cult floating around
and it is
It hasn't gone away, if you look at it closely.
I've heard that stuff, and it made me at first be like, okay, it's definitely real.
But now I kind of see it as a mechanism of maintaining power.
Could be.
You know?
It could be.
I'm sure there's lots of people who just go along with it because that's what they're doing.
There's a lot of herd mentality.
I mean, if You talk to politicians and wealthy people and regular people, it looks like the wealthy and the politicians, no more oppressive.
than just a smart guy.
He's more interesting than someone with a bunch of money.
That's their thing is you got a bunch
of money?
Why does that make you smart?
Why should I listen to you?
Someone elected you a senator?
Why should i listen to?
Well, they don't like that.
Are you good at voice impressions?
I guess maybe some.
I'm not that guy.
I wish I was better.
Can you do the hecklefish voice?
No, I can't seem to get it.
I can' get the pitch high enough.
And I don't have enough, like he has 10,
and gravel. I can't get there. My voice, you can hear how smooth my voice is. You can fall asleep to
this. He's like flying high on the wings of Y-105. Just so soothing, but he's grating.
I can do it. Where's he at? Right now, I don't know. I'm traveling.
You don't take him with you. It's not like a service. He is terrible. He can't put him under
the seat. He hates it. Can you do a hecklefish impression? Oh, no. Love to hear you try.
I can't do the high voices anymore.
No.
I used to be pretty good at him.
I used do like the Gollum voice impression when I was like a younger actor.
And then my voice like, I don't know, your ball's dropping.
It's like you can't fucking do high voices any more.
It's true.
But I'm sure I can figure it out again.
What conspiracy theory do you suspect is true?
But there's literally nothing there.
I can think of one because all the conspiracies had, pardon me, something.
has something. You know, you can believe in COVID or not, but there's plenty of evidence
that it was an engineered or at least a tweaked virus. There's plenty
of evidence of gain-of-function. But that's not the official narrative.
You know JFK, there's just plenty of evidenced that Lehar Basel was the PASI.
So I don't know up the top of my head. There is a good conspiracy needs to have some element
of truth to make it fun. Otherwise, it's...
It's just an idea, it's just a theory.
There's no conspiracy.
You need some grounding facts to hold onto.
You've built a whole career exposing lies
and uncovering truths that have the potential
to get you silenced and deleted from the internet.
What's the one thing that you, AJ,
are allowed to say on the Wi-Fi?
That I'm not allowed to to say?
Not allowed to talk about 9-11,
but I'm gonna, I'm, I gonna anyway.
Because Tucker did it first.
Is there anything that you can say here that you
can't talk about on your show?
No, I can't.
Some of I say here I can talk about it on my show.
Like I talked about COVID a few times here,
but I don't, I will joke at it on
my show, but I won't do a hardcore COVID video.
Not yet.
Eventually I will.
Same with 9-11.
Even with some of the CIA stuff, I hold back on a lot of it
because it gets really dark.
and stuff, I don't do that. I even did one story that was just about the Montauk project,
the Montaux experiment. It's kind of like Stranger Things is based around it. And it's a military
experiment. There's a chair and you can open a portal and go through time. That is that
kind of story. And I always like that story.
As I'm researching it, then I realized that the author of the story, Preston Nichols,
was having these young men over his house and he was teaching them how to open the portals.
that men would come out all upset and he was doing this to all these I didn't find
that out until I was like two-thirds of the way through the episode I'm like oh
no this is a dark story so even in the middle of the episode before I get to
my rap I tell the audience now's the time put the kids away like like I mean it
for real like this is gonna this is not for them so get him out of here go take
a minute and then I told what I found so if I had known that early I would have
done the story. I didn't want to do that. You don't want
to tell people. All right, now we're going to talk about
possible. That's not why you tune in to my show. You tune in for
fun. So I wouldn't have covered it.
Is there any specific pattern that you've identified about
humans from uncovering all these lies?
A few. I mean, humans want to believe what everybody else
beliefs. That's why so many conspiracies
conspiracies become fact later on is because you don't want to be the one who goes against
everybody else.
You wanna be marginalized.
And the CIA knew that very early on, like just keep calling him crazy and eventually everyone
will.
And that works.
And it still works now.
You don't wanna be someone who goes again to what other people are saying.
You wanna, you wanna be long.
You know, you don' wanna be at a cocktail party in the corner, standing next to me.
You don'' wanna be that.
So people want to believe the easiest narrative, the one that...
Just leave me alone.
The one that, get your eyes off me.
Just, they want to go along with the herd.
I guess for, like, people in power,
do you think it's about money, sex, control?
Is it something else?
No, I think you nailed all of it there.
It's about, money, power, sex.
Yeah, that's what it's all about.
But that's not new.
That's, you know, that sense cavemen.
that we wanted that. We all want that at some level. Some of us are just, you know, have,
have moral standards or you know. You know, I say I don't care about money, but that's easy for me
to say, because I have enough of it. But I mean, there's, there're sponsors I won't take because
I like what they do, like gambling sites and stuff. They'll just throw money at you,
but I want to take it. And other things that I just won't do. Because I,
you know I got old. I didn't have that many years left. Why bother? I have, you
paid. So I get to kind of do what I want, which is kind of nice. Younger people getting started,
maybe just have to take the deal. I probably would have taken certain deals earlier on,
you know, when I was struggling, because I struggled for a long time doing this.
So I just try to be self-aware, you know. Like it's easy for you to say, it's easier for you
to have morality when you could afford it. That's so true. So, I just trying to be
self-aware, like, so it doesn't sound too obnoxious.
Because I don't want someone to feel bad like, oh, well, I have to do this deal or I have
to take this job or do this thing because I have.
If you have to, that's not about, that has nothing to do with me.
I'm not here to judge anybody.
I'm just saying what I am comfortable with.
Right.
And that deal always comes.
Yeah, it always comes, I asked this to Tucker.
I wanted your thoughts on it because I feel like you've read so much about all this stuff.
do you think the lie is different at every level yes yeah I yeah now that you
even say that I will I'm gonna factor that into my research because there's
always new layers to it um and I think the deeper you like the more powerful you
go the I think that the the darker the lies are it's kind of hard to explain
officer, just who's an analyst out there doing a job, I don't think they're a liar. I think
they're just doing a
job. Just, but you get a little higher, it gets a little darker. Like, oh, I've got some
analysts that are doing propaganda. And then you go a little
higher. It's like, I have got some supervisors that are specifically focused on social media.
You go little higher. You eventually get to the director of CIA working with, you know,
the administration and maybe the CEOs of platforms all colluding to send a narrative our way.
get darker when you get down to the person who's just even the FBI agents in the Twitter files I
don't think most of them are probably not bad people so this is your assignment call Twitter and
tell them to de-platform that guy it's like all right that's I'm a patriot he's I guess he's
dangerous I'll do that I don't really blame them and see who's in charge do you see different layers
as you go up for so long I was focused on the layer above all the layers
that you just described.
You mean like a shadowy cabal?
I would say the layer above that.
So what would be above that?
Exactly.
I don't think there is anything above
that.
Do you think that there is a small group of elites?
Ah.
I know at the very least that it seems unlikely that it's only spiritual warfare.
But I think it's more so like a behavior of people.
And I think that those people often find each other.
I don't know.
I just, I think about how much is run on money.
And I can't imagine how many people have control over the money itself.
It's like, who's the person that created it?
I don' know.
Because the money gets to scales that, you know, you and I can' even really comprehend.
Right.
Because when I say my bills are paid, that means my bills were paid.
That doesn't mean, you don't, I don'T.
or a private plane. That means my bills are paid. You know, I'm wearing $18 with the clothes,
but I have clothes and my bills were paid. So I don't know what happens when you,
like when you're a billionaire, you don't really have to do anything that you want to.
You don't have to follow a single rule. There's no ramification. You can buy your way out of
anything or into anything. That's dangerous. But then again, you know I'm an anarcho-capitalist.
I don't think there should be a cap on income or anything like that.
worth a hundred billion dollars and good on you just try to be a good person if you can but you're
probably not that's hard to get there i think and not be like fucked over a lot by other people i
think that's true maybe you look at the entertainment industry that you're familiar with if you look
at like a lot of a list actors you know as as an old actor myself you talk to friends like oh i
wish i could be a movie star it's like you're not ruthless enough man these are not there a lot
of these people really ruthless and it's really type A.
really it's a fiber focused on their success is super narcissistic super ego and you're just too
nice of a guy you know you love animals too much you like puppies you're not gonna get there you
gotta be you gotta be a killer didn't you have two friends who i've met and i was like
they had the behavior archetype to be successful but they were just super nice and i
I was like, dude, I'm going to see you in a year and you're going to be a dick.
And like, yes, they were.
I'm not saying in a bad way, it's just like they're, like you get fucked over by people
and like you do a different kind of person.
And you get, you kind of get jaded and cynical and you don't trust people.
Right.
Yeah.
Because yeah, you've been screwed over by the system or whatever and you realize,
you just got to be a killer.
You think AI is going to kill us all?
I think it could be.
Really?
Yeah.
I think, I think.
It's definitely dangerous.
I mean it's dangerous now because of the manipulation of the media and the government.
But it's definitely...
It's, you know, when AI scientists say, I don't, we don't understand how it works, because they
don't know how works.
They don't.
That's kind of, that's kinda risky.
Now, I didn't know if there's gonna be an AI apocalypse.
I did an episode on AI apocalypse, by the way, which is pretty dark.
And you know how, how AI would take over the world.
I did this very early on.
And kind of the big reveal which is not a big reveal now is that that dark story I told,
AI wrote that story, because I prompted for how would you take over
the world, like before, like when you could jailbreak it.
I, I, like jail broke it and said, here's, how do you, how
do you kill us all? And it just told me and I just told the story
word for word that came out of there. I said, just write it as a
narrative chapters. And I told a story that said how, how it
happens. And it was pretty dark. Like, was it slow or was it?
No, no, it wasn't slow. It was like, it would, even in an air
gaps network, it found a way to get it was like a Roomba, it was
like it got into a circuit board there and then was able to
it out and then just starts self replicating. So it's just
everywhere. And then once it's everywhere, if it can control
like robotics and stuff, it can take physical form, it could
repair itself, and then it could have intention. And if you're
AI, and you start looking at humans, you got to be like, what? Why
do we need this? Look how messy they are. And they're gross,
and they're constantly fighting, we don't need this, we just
need energy. Get the humans out of the way. So the sentience is
what we have to look for, but I'm still fascinated by it.
That's a fascinating one because it seems to me
that it would be in the interest of an AI company
to want people to believe that it's gonna kill us all.
Why would it be in their interest?
Because that seems like a good buy of a stock.
Buy my stock because it can kill us one day?
This is gonna be the thing that takes over the world.
We need funding.
Well, that's happening for sure.
That's where the money's going.
People say, hey, I bubble, but I don't know, man.
I've seen bubbles before.
I think this is going to be around a while.
I agree with that.
Like, we don't go back from here.
Right.
Hmm.
I mean, you can't take it away from us now.
I can't figure it out.
Yeah, I...
It seems like there's intentional doomerism,
but it also seems like it could be valid.
I had never considered that.
That's interesting.
Intentional doomericism.
But it does make us...
I guess it does makes it kind of sexy.
Like...
This is so powerful that it's going to take all your jobs.
Take all your job.
It's going run the world.
Yep.
And by the way, we have the best one.
By the way.
What do you think happens 60 seconds after you die?
Like physiologically or spiritually?
Now, when I have consciousness experts on, I always ask the question, what happens when I die?
Not for 60 seconds, but I want to know, do they believe in reincarnation?
They believe in a life between lives.
Like Raymond Moody used to say, I would like to believe that there is that kind of waiting
room that first 60 seconds, maybe you're floating over your body.
Maybe you've got a life review.
Maybe someone's there to greet you and there's a light.
I kind of want to believe.
I don't know.
A lot of belief is just hopeful, isn't it?
Because what makes a lot of sense is you die and everything is, it's like it was before
you were born.
do you remember that how how was that for you like okay it'll be fine it was fine though that makes
a lot of sense but i it's hard for i think it's harder for people to get to think about life going
on without you that we don't like the scent we didn't like that i don't light that does that seem
most likely to you that it's nothingness that seems most logical to me yes but that's not what
i believe though what do you believe i believe in in that everything i just said
you
The waiting room?
The waiting, the life.
What's after the waiting room.
Probably, I don't know if you know Raymond Moody's work, but other people have written
about life between lives, about where the soul goes.
And you've got soul mentors and your soul group, and you decide together, I'm going to
reincarnate as this type of person to learn these lessons, to bring back to the source,
that all kind of stuff.
Yeah.
It sounds like I'm worshiping crystals or something, but I'm not really like that.
I kind of, I kinda really believe it.
And I don't know.
I don'know if I'm just talking myself into it.
Especially, you know...
When you're middle-aged like me, you think about death a lot because it's always happening.
You know, when you're in your 20s, you're always going to weddings.
When you were in your 40s and 50s, go to funerals.
And then your parents are dying.
Your grandparents are long gone.
And then friends are at high school are gone.
So it's around you a lot.
So you start thinking about it's pretty dark.
But then I think of older people who seem to be very much at peace with where they are.
Mom seems pretty cool that my stepfather just passed away just weeks ago.
And she was, she said it's mostly just weird that he's gone.
He's my wife for almost 50 years.
And he seemed okay.
Like, I mean, he was pretty old.
So Bill knew that any day he woke up was, could be his last.
And eventually it was.
So I hope I get to that point.
I need to get past this, the anxiety, and get to the, to where you're just comfortable.
Like, it's, it'S fine.
I had my turn to someone else.
Give someone else a shot.
Where do you think we go?
I want some reassurance.
That's fair.
Are you religious?
Okay.
Same.
It's a tough one.
I mean, it's the toughest one, but...
I just have never thought it mattered.
Wow.
Nihilism?
Ah.
I don't think it's
useful to think about, but I think it's useful to try to align with the highest good because
I think people usually have a pretty good gauge of it despite having to align
with a specific religion.
Karma seems to be a real concept.
It does.
I count on it.
Coincidences seem to be not just logically timed in my life.
but those accumulate over time it becomes really strange it really does i i like to at least act
like everything is trying to teach me a lesson good so that's a healthy what your theory is
suggesting about the reincarnations and you're here to learn this thing that seems accurate to
me but yeah i i don't know i i think i'm pretty at peace with the concept of death and i
I don't know why.
There's never really been a
concern of mine, you know.
Yeah.
I just feel like it'll be all right.
It's going to be alright.
You're gonna be fine.
You're not gonna care one way or the other.
I guess I won't really have the choice, yeah.
No.
I'm more afraid of like being old and sick than being gone.
Right.
If anything, I have a weird curiosity about, I wonder what happens.
I wonder if Dad's gonna be there.
It'd be cool.
A mutual friend of ours told me that your mother passed.
Is that not true?
No.
still here. Dad died a few years back. My stepfather Bill just passed very recently.
Got it.
The mom is still around.
I guess what's one thing you want people to know about him?
God. I talk about how my biological dad, my dad, it's not like we were estranged.
My dad and I were close. He taught me how to be a man. My dad was a man, you know,
he's a cop. He was down on earth. He's a man he taught me about women, about cars, about,
know, guy stuff.
A lot of lessons how to be a man.
Bill taught me how to a good man.
Bill taught about kindness, about compassion.
Dad was not really into kindness and compassion.
I mean, he was, but he was kind of the dark side.
You know, an old cop from NYPD, he's got opinions
where Bill was very open-minded
and it's kind of why mom left him
is because she wanted to be with someone more peaceful.
And Bill is very peaceful.
I'm just such a much better person for having him around.
You know, I really am really very lucky
because I really had two dads.
I had the tough guy dad, which is useful.
And then I had, Bill wasn't, you know,
I don't say he was a pussy, he wasn't.
But it was just kindness
where my dad was not great to my mom.
And I saw that before the divorce.
Bill worshipped my mother,
the ground she walked on.
He just worshipped her.
So when people were like, are you angry about the divorce?
How could it be mad at this guy?
He loves her.
and kind of tossed her around a little bit.
It's not not awesome.
That's not a lesson to learn.
You don't put your hands on people.
You treat women like this.
It's one thing your mom taught you.
You know, I'm a lot like her.
So I guess the biggest lesson for mom would be,
be think about your future self
and be kind to future self with all things.
Like with money.
Don't put yourself in debt
because your future yourself is going to hate you for that.
or put yourself in a bad relationship.
It's like your future self is gonna be annoyed at you.
So it's always about what you do now
really has an impact on what happens to you later.
So choices now are important.
But with that, there's an anxiety.
So I have that kind of anxiety.
Like I'm always thinking about all these,
drive for my wife nuts.
What's plan B?
What if that doesn't work out?
We'll be here, we'll be 70 years old.
I'm all is doing that.
Where she's like, just go with the flow, man.
You know, but those are good lessons from mom, you know, your credit score is important.
Is it?
Well, it is.
You know?
Is it important in your 20s?
Not really.
When you're 40, yeah, it it is, a 625 co is not useful.
Relationships.
You know is that someone you want to have in your life?
Probably not.
Or is that somebody you do want to happen in your live?
That mentor, you should stay in touch with them.
No.
So that would probably be the lesson.
Do you trust your gut?
I trust my gut.
Really?
Yeah, I trust my instinct.
That's fascinating because you seem to have a very analytical mind.
I do.
Like really break down conspiracies.
But I can, my wheels can turn so much that I can start to second guess my gut.
I think that's something I struggle with.
You have to.
It's the only way to do this is the wheels got to be very quick.
Very quick.
Always going.
AJ, you grew up listening to Art Bell on your dad's overnight radio.
When you were a kid,
was the guy who told americans the stories no one else would touch now that's you except six million
people are listening and the kids listening are being raised in a world filled with more information
more stories more lives than ever before what's one question you should ask yourself about a story
before you believe it who does it benefit ask yourself who it benefits you know am i being
You know, we talked about Chase Hughes and, and, you know, how good Chase is at spotting
propaganda and his system.
I covered his system as a full episode.
So yeah, it would be, you're always being manipulated by somebody.
First, you are always being used.
So just trying to find out why is, and it's kind of a theme of the show is we are being
used and abused.
Here's why.
So don't do that.
This is by the
lying to you what's a question that you don't know the answer to all of these what happens after we
die why are we here why did we become sentient what's is there life on other planet everything
i don't i don t know anything what's the one you're most curious about right now about death
i'm curious about that like i'd like to have a peek in that other world more than i'd
like to know if there's aliens that's the best the biggest question of all
Like, what are we even doing here?
What is this?
This is very strange.
Last question here.
AJ, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Just be good to people for no reason.
I try to do that because it always pays double.
It really, you know, it always does.
You know, you saw Big Ernie and I, we were talking about this before we came in about
how we just do favors for people.
And I never, you never have to thank me.
I got you, whatever you need.
You know, you started a business.
I said, give me some product.
I'll push it on the show.
He said, no, you don't have to do that.
I said of course, not mine.
Because there's nothing, just nothing.
Just help people out.
And never, never ask for a thank you.
Just do the thing.
Because it always comes back.
It always pays double.
Yeah, I would say that that's been a big one.
That's shaped my, I don't know,
since I graduated high school.
Just been like, not even expecting anything.
It's like you'll do 10 nice things and one might really pay off in a random way.
But you're not doing it for that.
You're just doing that for your own self, I feel like.
It feels good.
Yeah.
But I don't know if that's something that I feel
like it's something I had to be taught where some people are just naturally kind of empathetic.
I wasn't really like that where kind of dad was.
Just that's a good person.
Just do a thing.
turn because it always comes back so if i'm in a jam i have numbers to call you know so you just
want to be that guy to just do stuff especially if you have a platform like you do so if if someone
connects with me and says my kid's a big fan of the show the first thing i says what's your
kid's name give me the address we're going to send you a gift package that cost me money to do
that but i don't care because that means so much to that person and you never know you know what
you influence you can have so i take it very seriously about having an audience
and just doing what i can well everyone uh this has been your guest aj entile
instead of where can people find you what episode do you think people would be
most interested in based on the conversation we've had most far probably the hollow moon
hollow moon episode is a fun one or crop circles beautiful guys check out the hollow
episode on the Y files uh YouTube Spotify anywhere else you're out there you'll find me patreon as
well uh awesome well I appreciate you coming on brother guys this is the Jack Neal podcast
see ya thanks Jack thanks so much fun