You're stepping into the unknown when
you come out to Skinwalker Ranch. My
wife and I will never allow any of our
children to set foot on the property.
>> Brandon Fugle is the owner of Skinwalker
Ranch. It is the epicenter of all sorts
of paranormal activity, UFO related
activity.
>> Oh, right there.
It came right out of the mesa. Whatever
we're dealing with has the ability to
manipulate equipment.
>> My camera just went out.
>> Reprogram very sophisticated systems.
>> Wa I think that's creepy.
>> And also caused an acute medical
episode. [music]
He couldn't walk. He was immobilized.
Is it aliens or is it spiritual?
Are we dealing with angels and demons or
a portal? Think of an interstellar a
Stargate, an interstellar highway
potentially that provides transit
between dimensions or worlds.
>> It's raining drones over here.
>> Well, am I wrong that the subplot to all
of this is that there is a UFO under the
mesa at Skin Walker Ranch?
>> Uh,
we'll see.
We brought in a rabbi who did like a
cobalistic prayer.
>> He had a rabbitical chant that would
open portals. Shalom.
>> You guys find a direwolf. What is it?
Like a jaw.
>> That's a whole carcass.
>> Direwolves are are from 125,000 BC. Did
it time travel there?
The fact that you have helicopters
escorting some of these UFOs and UAP
into the mountains, that blows my mind
because then it's like not just
>> No, it's a coordinated effort.
>> Yes. Between humans and the beings.
Has anybody showed up to the ranch where
they feel [music] one step ahead of you
and you're you kind of just you feel a
little resonance? You see it in the eyes
and you're like, "This person knows a
whole lot and we're kind of piecing it
together."
>> Absolutely. Here's
the reality, Jesse.
>> We're being monitored.
>> Ignition sequence.
>> How is this possible?
>> Nothing too unusual about that. [music]
Their existence cannot longer be denied.
>> [music]
>> Brandon Fugal, this is an honor. It's a
long time coming and it's a full circle
moment for me having visited the ranch.
What was it four years ago?
>> About four years ago indeed. It was
right when we were in the middle of uh
of our public disclosure and building
momentum with the documentary series and
bringing a diversity of individuals to
the property to be briefed on the
reality of the phenomena and what we
were seeing at that time and so much has
happened since your visit. But it was a
privilege. It's it's it's my privilege
and it's an honor and um you know I want
to present you properly because most
people in your position with your sort
of you know with your money with your
resources they're trying to make more
money they're maybe comparing yachts at
San Tropé they're on a treadmill um you
know uh maybe they're trying to shape
the world politically uh you're uh in a
very rare category of person who is uh
really trying to discover the nature of
reality and uh spending his resources,
his hard-earned money uh in commercial
real estate towards kind of the you know
figuring out the secrets of the
universe. And so I I think that is
amazing and I I that is it's a it's a
really beautiful thing and I think you
know you're a role model to a lot of
people at home who are both industrious
but also curious. I I think it is part
of my stewardship and as I've mentioned
in other forums, I I consider myself the
steward, not necessarily just the owner
of Skinwalker Ranch. And as being a
steward of this place and these topics
to a degree, uh I've tried to address
them with the right hopefully level of
humility and reverence and personal
investment. I don't think there is
another private individual on the planet
that has invested more into these topics
than I have over the last decade. And
it's all in service to the truth and
hopefully sharing that truth with the
public. I don't believe I have a corner
on that truth or that IP. I believe it
is a a public uh right and benefit to
hopefully learn right alongside us. And
we've we've used a documentary series as
a as a primary vehicle, but also our web
portal that allows people a 24-hour,
7-day per week look into the ranch. A
lot of people don't realize they can
actually go online and be part of the
investigation 365 days a year. And we
have crowdsourced
for the first time Frontier Science
efforts like no other group, no other
effort. and and I'm quite proud of uh of
that effort. We call them the insiders.
Our insider program uh is is one of the
most exciting uh parts of our endeavor
because it's allowed other private
individuals to participate and to
monitor what is happening at the ranch.
>> That's amazing. And and you know, a
testament to to the transparency that
you're trying to kind of imbue this
whole effort with. Uh to those that
don't know, if you're living under a
rock out there, Brandon is the owner of
Skinwalker Ranch. And uh Skinwalker
Ranch is a fascinating location. It is
the epicenter of all sorts of paranormal
activity, UFO related activity. You see
orbs and spheres often around the mesa,
sometimes going through the mea, going
through rock,
>> right? Transmedium phenomena. I mean,
what we see at Skinwalker Ranch is the
highest frequency of UFO or UAP
sightings matched with electromagnetic
anomalies and a host of high stranges
that uh continues to baffle I think some
of the most uh skilled researchers,
scientists,
and experts that we've brought on to to
help us document and study the
phenomena. It's a it's a great
privilege. I mean, it's a it's a private
laboratory. You look at this 512 acre
piece of property that is in
northeastern Utah sequestered in the
middle of thousands of uh tribal acres.
I mean, it's right in the middle of the
Ute War reservation and has been not
only the subject and focus of frontier
science investigation for now over 30
years. Uh but it has been under armed
guarded surveillance since 1996.
uh I don't know another place on the
planet that is is truly a secure living
laboratory. We call it sometimes the the
private Area 51
>> uh for studying these topics and being
able to hopefully understand the nature
of our universe, our role in the
universe and what that plays and and
what is really happening.
>> It's almost if you put the phenomenon in
like a lab environment in like a closed
environment, it would be Skinwalker
Ranch. Yeah,
>> it's like a little petri dish or
something.
>> It really is. Or others say it's Mecca
for the paranormal.
>> Mecca for the paranormal. I love it.
>> We have people show up all day every
day.
>> I paid my tribute.
>> Yeah, [laughter]
it's it's funny. people come to the
gates and and they'll try to touch the
gates or they'll get their their photos
and uh and you know there are some
really good people all over the world
that are asking the same questions the
same questions that have been asked for
thousands of years.
>> You know are we alone in the universe?
You know what is the nature of reality?
Do we live in a in a divinely
constructed intelligently designed
reality? And are there other beings or
influences that uh are helping to shape
for better or for worse
>> that reality?
>> I want to get into that. But before I
want to back up and talk about a pact
that you made in I think fifth or sixth
grade.
>> Okay.
>> Behind the school.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you know what I'm talking about?
>> I I believe what you're referring to is
me and my best friend
>> Chris Lee. He's a prominent doctor. He's
I think he's the leading uh radiation
oncologist in the country. He's up in
the Pacific Northwest and is a partner
in several clinics. Well, Dr. Lee or
Chris Lee uh who was my best friend in
fifth grade playing Dungeons and Dragons
with me and taking karate. Uh he and I
one day uh heard that there was a pack
of cigarettes that was found on the
playground. And uh everyone was in a in
a huff about it and everyone was
whispering about who was who was out
smoking uh on the playground and uh we
ended up being late to class and and
talking about it in the boys's restroom
and we made a pact and we shook on it.
We we made a pact that we would never
smoke or drink or what we call in in
Mormonism or as members of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uh
break the word of wisdom. um and that we
would hold each other to that pact. And
I remember we both remind each other
almost on a monthly basis of our promise
and we've kept it all these years. So we
shook on it in fifth grade and now at
age 53 we still check in with each other
uh relative to whether we we've kept our
promise. And so to this day I've never
drank I've never tried alcohol. I've
never smoked. I I don't even know what
coffee tastes like for that matter. But
uh
>> that's incredible. uh we've we've we've
adhered to that and I think it's kept me
out of trouble. [laughter] Um I
[clears throat] don't judge anyone. Um I
want to be clear about that that I I
don't judge anyone for for feeling
differently or practicing differently,
but that's a promise that we made. It
was very personal and it's it's helped
me in my life. I've seen great blessing
come from adhering to that uh that
health protocol.
>> Well, you definitely have the the Mormon
glow. our spaceship here.
>> So, that was what you're referring to.
>> Yeah, that was what I was referring to.
Yeah. A little inside info that I got.
>> Oh, that's awesome.
>> Um, but I remember specifically when I
visited Skinwalker Ranch, you you drank
a big thing of Diet Mountain Dew every
day and you didn't get sick.
>> No, I found that fascinating.
>> I drank like 200 to 300 ounces of uh
Diet Mountain Dew for the most part.
When when I don't have Diet Mountain
Dew, I switch to the hard stuff, which
is Diet Coke. So, I was glad that you
had that here in the studio. But, uh, I
kid, but it's it's true. The first two
ingredients in Diet Mountain Dew, if you
check the ingredient label, are
>> orange juice and carbonated water.
>> And I know there's a whole bunch of
stuff that isn't healthy, that isn't
good for you, but I always turn to those
ingredients. And I [laughter]
>> and and I'm I'm like the only one in my
family who hasn't had kidney stones.
Knock on wood. I've I've I've been very
fortunate, but it it's my jet fuel. Uh
cuz I run hard. You know, I work
typically 18 20 hours a day, Monday
through Friday, crash on the weekend.
But
>> that's incredible. I don't know how you
run the real estate business
simultaneous to, you know, doing all you
do at Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, that
must be a lot to juggle.
>> It's a balancing act. uh currently
represent I think 200 different
properties available across five
counties, over 30 cities,
>> some of the the biggest commercial real
estate projects, but at the same time,
I'm trying to be a good steward over
what I believe to be the most important
frontier science endeavor and and trying
to keep my team focused and uh intact.
But also, it's a dangerous place. We've
had so many members of our team and
visitors that have ended up in the
hospital with mysterious illnesses,
injuries.
>> Um, bad things happen out there. So,
there's a real liability issue.
>> And then you have the sensitivity of the
ongoing scientific investigation. Every
time you introduce people into that
space, into that environment,
>> it can have impact. It it has both
positive and negative effects. And we're
I think we're we are observing phenomena
that could be defined as malevolent at
times as negative or adversarial as well
as benign or even positive.
>> Yeah.
>> Um you have to be careful. You're you're
stepping into the unknown when you come
out to Skinwalker Ranch. It's uh
>> it's at your own risk. You probably
remember we have had everyone sign a
liability.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And we can get into some
interesting experiences I had after the
fact, which I know is not uncommon.
Yeah.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> Possibly a little hitchhiker. Yeah,
>> you're kidding. So, the hitchhiker
effect, which I didn't believe in and I
thought was just mythology to a degree
or people um kind of just imagining
things. I has come home to roost in my
life. It it took a lot of years, but uh
just in the last two years, I've
witnessed the hitchhiker effect.
Unfortunately, in my own life,
>> a hitchhiker effect should probably be
plural, not just a singular form of the
term, because there are many effects.
People would go to this property,
encounter unusual phenomena, UFOs,
whatever, and then they would go home
and they were visited at their home by
orbs, by craft, by crypto type beings,
poltergeist type activity broke out in
their homes
>> before that time before any,
you know, four years ago when I visited,
you were like, "Nothing's ever happened
to me." I was like, "This is
remarkable." He's going back and forth,
helicoptering in.
>> Yeah. Here I'm the owner of the ranch
and I'm stimulating this. I'm I'm to
some degree aggressively
trying to document this for the first
time.
>> Yeah.
>> And I fully expected that if this if
there's any validity of the hitchhiker
effect, it would be it would be
witnessed and it would come come to my
home
>> uh both literally and figuratively.
>> So that ended up happening.
>> It's happened and it was unfortunate. We
had uh we had an experiment that we were
running that was really aggressive and
everything went wrong that day
>> involve
>> it was a couple years ago.
>> Mhm.
>> And involved uh the helicopters, my
helicopter and another helicopter and we
had an army of experts and uh equipment
and
something that day was not happy with
the work we were doing. something wanted
something or someone was active in the
space and everything went wrong and
haywire and we all of the
instrumentation across the ranch was was
uh acting strangely was behaving
strangely and then we had some
unfortunate things occur. I mean we were
very lucky that people didn't die on
that day. um you you never want to put
people in harm's way, but this is this
is unknown. This is this is a an effort
that deals with the unknown. And when I
returned that night to my home, flew
back for the next several weeks,
starting that night, everything
everything felt different at home. Uh we
have a little Shih Tzu. My wife and I,
Kristen, have a little Shih Tzu. I swear
he runs the place. His name is Arthur. I
don't know if you have any pets, but uh
>> Arthur the dog and um and he's he's very
docile, sleeps all night, is very quiet.
Um, but that night I got home, he got up
on the edge of the bed and wouldn't stop
growling like just Kujo like just
growling
um
harshly into the corner of the room into
just kind of a dark corner of the room
and wouldn't stop. And that proceeded
about every night right around 3:00 a.m.
or so, he would get up and start
growling and barking at something that
wasn't there, that was unseen, which is
uncar uncharacteristic. I mean, this is
a dog that's been with Kristen for I
don't know eight eight plus years. And
so, uh,
there were a couple of other things that
happened, objects that moved that were
moved,
um, by unseen forces and it was
undeniable, and it was trickster like
activity. It was not nice.
>> Do you remember an object that moved?
>> Her wedding ring.
>> Wow.
>> So, her wedding ring was actually moved.
Um, and um,
>> it's not something you don't remember
moving.
>> No. And in fact, I I wish she was here
to tell the story, but she got up in the
morning and she has a little dish, a
little dish that she always keeps her
jewelry in there on the on her dresser
and every night takes off of off her
jewelry and everything else. Well, she
got up the next morning, got ready, and
the ring was gone.
and and uh it and she searched
everywhere and everything else was
there. Didn't know what to make of it.
No one had been in our home that we were
aware of. And
she uh she ended up saying she's a very
spiritual person. So she ended up
praying the rosary. She's Catholic um in
her background. Praying the rosary and
saying prayer that she would find it was
just frantic. And in her mind's eye, she
saw that ring in the pocket of a robe
that we had acquired at a hotel that was
in her closet that she hadn't worn for
months.
And she literally got up from prayer,
walked into her closet,
searched for that robe that she had not
worn in months,
dipped into that pocket, and it was
there. Whoa. Oh,
>> and I know everyone's going who knows
how people react to this story. This is
the first time I've ever told this. I've
never ever told this story in public.
And I it really isn't my story to tell,
which is kind of my wife's mantra. But
>> but I don't think she'd mind me sharing
it because it's real. It's true. But
there were a number of other things that
occurred that were a little bit
unsettling and disturbing.
>> Orbs or
>> So she ended up having the house
blessed. um had someone come a you know
a spiritual person come and sage the
house and it went away.
>> Wa
>> it abruptly left. The dog
>> uh went back to its normal routine and
we haven't had anything since. But uh it
was that night and followed for weeks
now. Others
>> on my team who've had the hitchhiker
effect manifest
>> have had much more unfortunate
circumstances. I mean they've had family
members that have come to harm. They've
had their
>> their security go crazy. I mean, and a
lot of this this isn't just
>> tales. The these aren't just anecdotal
accounts. There's data.
>> What are the most stark examples?
>> A Thomas Winterton.
>> One day I decided to do some digging
and then 3 days after I noticed that I
had a goose egg on the back of my head.
My scalp [music] separated from my
skull. The pain is so excruciating. I've
never felt anything like it before in my
life.
>> Yeah. Not only was he hospitalized with
with with an illness with injuries that
threatened his life that remain
unexplained. I mean, the only thing that
could explain his injuries is some type
of beam energy device that irdiated the
back of his head. But beyond that, as
he's continued to forcefully help us try
to get the answers and manage that ranch
for me, I mean, he's been with me for
over 10 years since April of 2016,
shortly after I bought the ranch, I
engaged him. Thomas has had things
happen in his home upon returning from
Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, we're talking
about his automotive vehicles
um all of a sudden go haywire and crazy.
Um, uh, security breached, uh, fires
started. Um, I, again, I I'm now
breaking my wife's rule. It's not my
story to tell, but Thomas, I don't think
would have a problem going on record in
stating that he and so many others have
actually documented. We're talking about
not just a witness, but they have
documented with with with camera
surveillance and other means the reality
of the hitchhiker effect that it's real.
And that's why you have to be very
cautious. You have to be humble and
reverent
when tackling these topics because we're
dealing with forces that are unknown and
frankly far beyond our capability. I
mean, whatever we're dealing with has
the ability to manipulate equipment,
reprogram very very sophisticated closed
systems
and also even I think manipulate
consciousness itself. We've even seen
time space
>> uh we've seen time
>> act and behave differently on the ranch.
>> It's almost really
to say more about that.
>> Yeah. Well, GPS, I'll give you one one
major highlight that has been
repeatable.
>> Mhm.
>> And we have an abundance of data
>> supporting GPS malfunctions and is
manipulated on Skinwalker Ranch. It just
does not operate. Imagine
>> and GPS is sort of based on you know
relativity and you know and time
>> and how billions of dollars worth of
space assets satellites coordinated with
uh
>> with our instrumentation on the ground.
Just imagine I mean how much of our
world today even me coming here to this
studio
>> yes
>> was dependent
>> on the accuracy and the reliability.
Well
>> but it's also based on triangulating
signals based on time. Correct.
>> So that's why I'm like, "Yeah, I wonder
if there's some time manipulation
involved in the GPS failure."
>> When Dr. Taylor and others speculate
that there's a portal for portals or
wormholes on Skinwalker Ranch,
they're
they're basing that on real world data
and observations
>> that point to that being a a potential
reality. They're not just making that
up. They're not just pulling that out of
thin air. there are anomalies.
>> So like a mini black hole or something.
>> Yeah. Or a portal. Think of an
interstellar a stargate an interstellar
highway potentially that provides
>> passage or transit between dimensions or
worlds. It's
>> so interesting because you have Hawking
radiation coming out of black holes
traditionally.
>> Correct.
>> Electromagnetic fallout. And then you
have this concept John Wheeler proposed
called Wheeler tunnels named after him
where maybe there are little wormholes
all over the world and and all over the
universe. And this would be a way to
kind of, you know, transport yourself.
You know, who knows if they're
biologically traversible. Eric Davis
wrote, you know, a whole paper about
biologically traversible wormholes,
>> but there would be electromagnetic
fallout. And you guys measure all sorts
of electromagnetic anomalies all over
the ranch. Well, and those anomalies,
those electromagnetic anomalies or
fingerprints
often correlate with the appearance of
unidentified aerial phenomena,
>> equipment malfunction, even acute
medical episodes. And that's the thing
when you have the these correlations,
when you have simultaneous
electromagnetic anomalies,
acute medical episodes, unidentified
aerial phenomena, all appearing and
documented by instrumentation.
We're talking high-speed cameras,
uh, all sorts of tracking,
>> triield meters,
>> surveillance. Yeah, you bet. a diversity
of scientific platforms that all operate
and function differently but are all
indicating
>> that something is changing within the
space. It seems to occur often in the
ultra high frequency microwave range and
there's a specific signal that you guys
keep receiving in the 1.6 ghahertz.
>> It's intriguing and we we have yet to
identify the source
>> the origin and we've scanned that
property. I mean, people all all the
time challenge me also on the
environmental. They're like, "Well,
there must be some radioactive
material." Well, we've brought some of
the leading environmental testing
companies in the country. I mean, these
people these companies have worked on
programs for the federal government for
for the private sector and are are truly
the experts. And they can't find any
origin
>> Yeah.
>> associated with that. They can't they
can't locate it yet. It's it's there.
It's transient. It comes and goes. Um
Eric Bard, our principal invest in
investigator and chief scientist over
the last 10 years, uh initially
identified an electromagnetic
signature or a fingerprint associated
with much of the phenomena or the the
events that occur.
>> Signature. Well, we it it was first seen
when he visited the ranch that day that
I became
a an experiencer. I went from being a
skeptic to an experiencer within a
matter of minutes. He's pointing up
ahead and I look to exactly where he's
pointing straight ahead of us above the
mesa and there is literally a silver
grayish disc-like object about 100 ft
above the mea just sitting there
suspended in the air. And on that day
the equipment started malfunctioning.
You know, smartphones started behaving
strangely. And and he was able to later
replicate
those anomalies by focusing intense
electromagnetic force
>> using a a large magnet, a what?
Neodymium magnet.
>> Wow.
>> In order to actually repeat the effect,
the experiment, which is both exciting
and troubling. That was covered in our
first season of our docue series in real
time. In fact, he brought out the case,
you know, with this dangerous magnet
that you don't want.
>> Yeah, those are super dangerous. Those
will rip through your body. They're on
either side.
>> Yeah. And he he demonstrated the effect.
And a lot of people It went over
everyone's I would say it went over 99%
of people's heads. They didn't They were
like, "Oh, well, that's that's dumb or
that that doesn't, you know, that isn't
a flying saucer dropping down in the
middle of a field right behind the the
command center." But it was so profound.
It helps us understand. It's it's a you
know when Bob Lazar was given you know
this craft to work on it was like how do
you parallel engineer not how do you
reverse engineer how do you figure out
through prosaic conventional you know
human technology how to recreate the
effect and obviously that'll give you
insight into how these things are flying
what's working. So totally makes sense.
You conduct experiments and you repeat
the experiments
>> and that's what we have been doing for
years is conducting experiments and
there's no offtheshelf
>> platform or solution
>> and clearly something here is at play
like if you were to bring you know I
just debated Michael Shurmer on the show
and like
>> I loved it great episode and it was
great to uh great to see Michael Shurmer
address these questions directly.
>> Yeah. and these topics. Um, I am an
>> because there's nothing you could say.
>> Well, don't hold this against me, but I
every month I read cover to cover
Skeptic magazine.
>> You do do that. I I think that's really
cool. So I I have for the last probably
longer than owning Skinwalker Ranch for
long before owning Skinwalker Ranch, I
made it a point with my visits to Barnes
& Noble on the weekend to pick up the
latest Skeptical journals, Skeptical
Inquir and and Skeptic Magazine because
I I appreciated a lot of the content
there. I appreciated that it challenged
some of my beliefs or some of the grand
claims that are made on a on a regular
basis in our culture and uh and I I
welcome critical thinking. In fact, I
enjoy critical thinking as a necessary
part of of progression. And uh as I
mentioned, I I was a skeptic. I mean, by
the time I acquired the ranch, I was
convinced personally that there was no
validity
>> Yeah. to the paranormal, the UFO
uh claims. I I had lost my faith in
organized religion at the time and had
grown greatly discouraged and and I was
consuming a lot of skeptical
um u material and and feeding that part
of my curiosity and doing my due
diligence.
But I was wrong to to be honest. It's
been humbling because I've I've come
full circle. I've had to admit
that I was wrong. I had to admit that
there are things that I misjudged.
I mean, if if you watch the show,
there's just an overwhelming amount of
evidence that you provide. Now, I think
what some skeptic could come in and say
is like, is is this all perfectly
repeatable?
Maybe not because there's seems like
there's an intelligence on the other
side. Sure. We're not in control.
>> It's a game of cat and mouse. Exactly.
But there's certain I mean, you know,
one example is you find this cow, you
know, it's been totally mutilated. I
believe the blood has been, you know,
sucked out of it. I think you bring in
Linda Molton. How?
>> Yeah. It actually the calf had died
under mysterious circumstances.
Perfectly healthy calf.
Hey y'all, I'd recommend not to touch it
till we see if it's radioactive or not.
>> Um, it was unusual. It had been in great
health and then had just killed over and
and upon investigating
the the calf, you know, the equipment.
In fact, Thomas Winterton's smartphone
started completely going haywire. And
then Caleb Benches,
our security, who is actually active law
enforcement, his smartphone started
completely malfunctioning upon entering
that field in that space. Well, one
thing that is an important side note
that may or may not have relevance, but
I think it's interesting. They had
different type, one had a Samsung
>> device and one had an iPhone. So,
different operating systems, both
behaving strangely at the same time. And
then upon testing the uh the the calf,
it was really interesting. We couldn't
find any known reason for what had
happened, but we pulled up the
surveillance footage to find out what
happened at what time did it collapse?
Did it go down? And was there anyone
there? Was there any any uh person that
was involved, you know, or another
animal? What what what may have led to
it? and we captured on camera a an
object.
>> I can't help but also notice that
there's something happening here.
>> There it was.
>> There.
>> The moment that that object appeared
[music] above the cow, the cow was
reacting.
>> Yes.
And I'm telling you, it was right right
at the time that this calf went down
just south just footsteps from Homestead
one from the command center.
>> That's a good example where it's like
that object isn't one of your drones.
You know what I mean?
>> No. And and it's it's moving. I mean, we
we had several frames of it. It's not a
bug. I mean, we had several
>> um high-speed camera experts take a look
at it. Um it's
>> it it's honestly an unidentified
flying object
>> and radiation is coming off of the cow
even after it's dead.
>> Correct. Now going back to the earlier
accounts uh during the Bigalow era, you
know, my predecessor, they did have many
cattle mutilation
>> events where on the property on
Skinwalker Ranch, the perfectly what was
a perfectly healthy animal ended up
being dissected
>> and drained of its blood.
And no trace evidence, no evidence, no
blood surrounding or underneath. Uh, no
evidence of anyone coming or going. I I
mean, it being done in broad daylight
right there in the middle of the field,
right under everyone's noses, you know,
right under under their noses. And I've
seen the reports. I mean, one thing I
appreciate about uh Robert Bigalow's
investigation is, you know, he brought
in experts as well. He had a a
veterinarian or he had a uh was a he was
an expert a doctor Dr. Onette who
actually um was brought in immediately
to conduct a necropsy
>> on the animals and was on call and
provided a you know an extensive
analysis and
>> and the animals seem inedible. They're
obviously scavenger animals that
generally, you know, would eat the
carcass of a dead animal. And some of
these animals
>> seem just untouched and they don't decay
in normal ways. You have a biologist,
Ben Woodruff, who documents a lot of
this stuff.
>> Oh, yeah. That's the thing. The rate of
decay and decomposition
>> on Skinwalker Ranch is dramatically
different than anything that that has
been observed in nature typically. And
>> what what do you attribute that to?
That's so strange. Uh, we don't know,
>> but it is strange. And that very calf
that died under mysterious circumstances
with the UFO and all of the the
equipment malfunctions
uh that we documented,
>> nothing no scavenger activity, nothing
nothing touched that animal,
>> that carcass.
>> And even a year later, it remained
untouched. where other animals that die
from time to time, you know, you do see
coyotes show up and you you have, you
know, in fact, it's it's not uncommon
within hours to see every trace of of a
carcass removed
>> by scavenger activity. But on this
ranch,
>> it's uh it's unpredictable.
>> I want to talk about the history of the
ranch because it is fascinating.
>> Yeah. So, let's go back to you said you
went basin. It's on the eastern side of
Utah, right?
>> Yeah. Northeastern Utah.
>> Northeastern Utah. Let's go back to this
conflict between the Navajo and the
Utes. Can you describe this and why it's
so kind of essential to the story here?
>> Well, the
the
Navajo and the Utes had conflict and um
and the Utes were siding with the
government, with the United States
government. Um, the youths were even
selling the Navajo into slavery at that
point. And as we've been told, the
Navajo ended up being being driven away
and and cursed the property. There was a
curse placed on this property. In fact,
for generations, the ridge, the Mesa
Plateau that runs the expanse of the
property from east west that has been a
large focus of our investigation the
last few years. uh surprisingly as was
historically called Skinwalker Ridge and
that Skinwalker Ridge moniker
which was conveyed to the Bigalow team
and to others ended up being really the
catalyst for referring to the ranch as
Skinwalker Ranch. So, Skinwalker Ranch
derives its name not only from the
Native American curse, but the ridge
that runs across the property and the
lore surrounding it, stating that this
property was cursed to be forever in the
path of the skinwalker, that this is
where these demonic shape-shifting
uh figures would be essentially
sequestered, that this would be their
dwelling place. It was funny the first
day I saw this ranch when I came out to
inspect it in tandem with closing on the
acquisition back in 2016.
You I dropped down on the helicopter and
and and the first time I saw it was
coming in from the air and I was aruck
>> at the beauty. I mean just the the
beauty of this huge expansive red rock
mesa plateau and waterways that cut
through the property. these old
homesteads that are kind of hidden in in
clusters of uh of trees. And as we drop
down in the meadow, which is now where
we have our helport
and I've constructed a sophisticated
helicopter landing point along with
other structures that are that are part
of the monitor monitoring effort there.
Bigalow security walks out, greets us,
you know, sidearm
right there at the ready, and proceeds
to give us a an initial tour of the
perimeter of the property. Well, Jesse,
one of the most ominous indications that
that there was something different about
this property was the fact that there
were these carcasses, there were these
animal parts hanging from the fence
line.
>> Whoa. And uh it it was kind of gross to
be honest with you. I was like, "What?
Why are" And I asked Bigalow Security, I
said, "What's what is the nature of this
stuff that's hanging from the fence
line? You know, it looks like body
parts. It looks like the animal
carcasses." And he says, "Yeah, the they
the Native Americans have been hanging
these and blessing these animal bladders
to keep the demonic activity on this
property and off their property." Whoa.
Because three of four sides of this
property,
uh, they're bounded by Native American
tribal.
>> It was like these were like offerings.
>> Yeah. They're hanging and blessed to
actually form a spiritual
>> wild
>> perimeter.
>> And to this day, if you meet anybody
from the Navajo tribe and you bring up
skinwalkers, they'll often say, "Don't
go there."
>> Well, they don't even they don't even
want to utter the word. They don't want
to speak about skinwalkers. I mean, when
I purchased the property, I was told by
several local um leaders that they their
people have been told not even to look
the direction
>> of this property for generations
for fear that phenomena would follow
them,
>> for fear that it would attach
>> and follow them. Damn. So to see
mythology or lore
>> Mhm.
>> turn into reality [laughter] and actual
data points, documented data points
today. Um really indicating there is a
there is a reality to the hitchhiker
effect. There is a reality to the fact
that the phenomena does follow. It does
attach itself to those at times who
visit the property that are involved
with this effort. It's it's sobering.
So, did you experience the hitchhiker
effect? So, what
>> I did when so you came out, we flew you
out to Skinwalker uh in the helicopter
and it was amazing.
>> Great to give you a briefing. We've had
some of your um associates pre your in
your professional life that came out for
a briefing as well and it was fun
>> to uh to actually brief them and have
their eyes on the data.
>> What happened? We've never been able to
catch up and talk about this.
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>> What happened? We've never been able to
c catch up and talk about this.
>> Yeah. So, okay. Had a great time on the
ranch. had a great time with you. I was
blown away at all of the cool sensors,
instruments, experiments you guys had
done. I was sort of, you know, early in
my UFO investigation, you know, world.
And I I, you know, honestly was coming
in somewhat skeptical. I had, you know,
just met Lu Alzando who was like, "You
need to pray before you go." And I I've
heard that from a couple other people.
You know, you need to go in with
reverence. And I was like, "Ah, you
know, I'm I'll be fine. You know, I
still went through the motions, but um
it was probably, you know, to be a
little more vulnerable and
introspective, I it was at a time in my
life where I was probably getting a
little ahead of my skis. I was, you
know, very interested in investing and
making money. And I had these two sides
of myself, the nature of reality side
and then this like, you know, just
wanting to, you know, climb the ladder.
I was very ambitious and they were very
kind of compartmentalized and I think I
was probably kind of, you know, shoving
this in in the trunk and I wasn't
probably giving it its proper due and
they weren't fully integrated
>> and so I'm sure there was some part of
me that was, you know, had I had had a
little ego, you know, and [laughter] and
>> I know. Well, and it's hard not to be
enthusiastic and to get
>> I have to check myself every day.
>> Yes. Um because I'm I'm a driven person
to sorry to interject. I I totally
understand.
>> It's the classic kind of you know plight
of of man is you're so curious and you
want to know as you know you know all
this stuff that we're describing here is
traditionally thought of as forbidden
knowledge and all there all these myths
around these there's a great book by
Roger Shadock called forbidden
knowledge. Usually the myths don't end
well, but there's a straight and narrow
path that you can walk where you can
end, you know, can end very well, you
know, and so it's a it's a very
>> it's a very hard thing to discuss, but I
I came in probably with not enough
reverence. So that would be my my take
on myself. And I I you know, we went it
was an amazing experience. It was so fun
to learn about the history and to meet
you and to meet the whole team and um
but nothing crazy happened, right? which
is like 90% of cases,
>> which I warn you, I tell everyone that
comes out to the ranch, don't expect
anything unusual to happen. I owned the
ranch for 6 months
>> and had been visiting pretty pretty
constantly to get briefed on how the
survey work was going before I ever
personally
>> Yes.
>> saw or experienced anything. And I fully
expected that there wasn't anything to
it. So, you never know.
>> I mean, a trifield meter did go off.
There were a couple things that happened
with our phones. So, like there's
definitely some anomalous
electromagnetic activity.
>> Yeah.
>> At the end of our time, we're standing
around, you know, about to board the
helicopter to go back and I say, "I
smell sulfur."
>> Smelled like sulfur or whatever.
>> Oh, really? And um I think Dragon uh you
know your security guy he he's like uh
oh we have this way of testing whether
it's real sulfur if it's like kind of
more in your mind.
>> So this is a hydrogen sulfate gas
monitor.
>> So I wear this so that if someone says
that they smell something like that
>> we know the whether it's really gas or
if it's something happening up here cuz
people that have had instances
>> is anything coming up.
>> No. Okay.
>> No. So,
>> and he was like, "It doesn't look like
there was a gas leak. It's not real
sulfur. I think it's like something that
you're tuning into." And I was like,
"What?" And I like forgot about it.
Right.
>> Right.
>> Get back to LA where I'm living at the
time. And I had the worst month of my
life. [laughter]
I just a string of bad things happening.
I give you like, you know, maybe a
couple of highlights, but um uh I I
ended up in a in a building. Actually, I
went to work early. Um and I was there
at like 6:00 a.m. No one was there. Uh
and I was there alone. And I'm in the
building we work at and an armed gunman
runs into the building. And so I'm
basically alone in this kind of
commercial building. Yeah.
>> In LA. And uh and there's this armed
gunman there. And I'm getting calls, you
know, from the company I used to work
with being like, "There's an armed
gunman like, you know, protect
yourself." You know, I'm like, "Wow,
there's not much we can do for you." You
know, he's in the building. And um
>> I ripped the sign off the bathroom door
so it looked like this like cabinet and
I like locked myself in the bathroom and
I think I took a knife in there
>> and I just started praying for my life.
And that was like a Tuesday of this
month. That was anom that was probably
anomalously bad. Sure.
>> But it had a lot of bad things.
>> You just had a sequence of events that
happened there.
>> It was uh Have you ever seen the movie
After Hours by Martin Scorsesei?
>> It was like a you know that it was like
Dante's Inferno, you know. It was like,
you know, like okay, another thing,
another thing. And I was like, I
remember by the end of it, I was just
praying to God. I was like, I whatever
I've done to deserve this, I please I'll
change my ways, you know, and uh and
then that really helped and it went
away. And um you know, I still probably
have
I don't know. I I I describe myself as,
you know, some somewhat agnostic, but
but I want to experience God. And I
would say that um that reinforced my
belief
>> because you know the fact that you know
praying caused the thing to go away. I
was like whoa.
>> Which which speaks to the power of
prayer
>> consciousness and and a divine that
there is a a divine source or a higher
power. I
>> I I think that there's good reason to be
cautious when
when approaching these topics. Uh my
wife and I will never allow any of our
children
>> who are now all adults to set foot on
the property simply because I've seen
the harm that has come to several people
that I love that have been on this
property that are part of this
investigation or have visited. [gasps]
Uh
we're dealing with forces that that we
don't quite understand. And I think that
there is an effort to try to thwart to
try to deceive or halt the investigation
because I think the, you know, what
we're tapping into, what we're
discovering
and and disclosing to the world could
very well usher in, I think, a new
understanding of of really our place in
it. It's interesting, you know, in a lot
of different traditions, if you're
trying to get to the sacred knowledge or
kind of the holiest of holies, there are
demigod beings guarding that knowledge
and there's a resistance to you getting
there. And so, do you sometimes think
about that in or this in that context?
You know, we have people that approach
us um uh very respected
leaders, people that have different
perspectives on what is happening. I
mean, we've had people that uh come from
various traditions that uh that claim
that the data shows that it's a jin that
what we're dealing with is uh is a jin
uh or or similar phenomena. I mean,
every culture has its traditions, has
its has its uh mythology or
>> but almost all of those cultures have
consciousness between man and God.
>> Correct. Correct. often that mess with
our perceptions or as you were talking
earlier I almost was thinking is this
like Deart's demon you know because it's
like 360 control of your perception if
you're talking about manipulating time
you know that all things are possible at
that point
>> yeah and we're so fragile I mean
mortality
>> is so fragile um this human experience
that we're all part of is
it's delicate
It's it's uh it's not something to be
taken lightly.
>> No, not to be trifled with. And it's
interesting that you know it's really
cuts to the kind of meek shall inherit
the earth thing where I remember you
know when I went I was speaking to you
and and and Eric and you know a lot of
the investigators and they were like
people with bigger egos seem to get hit
or tagged more. And so the, you know,
example you guys brought up was this
Hell's Angels chieftain. Is it a
coincidence he was Hell's Angels?
>> You're asking the right question.
[laughter]
>> Who was in a frozen in a catatonic state
>> for 10 minutes?
>> For 10 minutes on the mesa.
>> Yeah. This individual, it was actually
at Homestead 3.
>> Mhm.
>> It was behind Homestead 3. We We were
out exploring the property and we all
exited this open air UTV Polaris Ranger.
It's still out there. we have to keep
keep it running. It's it's it's falling
apart. Um but uh we had all kind of
jumped out of this vehicle to go walk
around the other side of Homestead 3,
which is the oldest structure on the
property. And it's a structure that some
people refuse to enter. I mean, my wife
will not enter that property. She just
does not feel comfortable entering
Homestead 3 for whatever reason. We've
had other visitors and Trent Resner,
>> uh, [snorts] who I love. Yeah. One of
the most
>> legend.
>> Yeah. He's one of one I one of the the
most intelligent people I know and and
one of the most talented
>> came out and we were anxious to have him
uh look at the audio uh the anomalous
audio uh you know data that we had
collected and some of the other
>> You should make a song with the
anomalous audio.
>> No kidding. Wouldn't that be amazing?
That'
>> be pretty cool. Um, and I think even he
hesitated and for good reason. I I mean
there I think people are very wise to
follow their their intuition, those
prompings.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Well, maybe I ended up there
before
>> but you but the Hell's Angels. So it was
the Yes.
>> the former president of a large chapter
of the Hell's Angels was there as
attending security. We all jumped out.
After about 10 minutes, we'd realized
that he was gone, that he hadn't
accompanied us. So, I went to go seek
him out. As I walked around the back of
Homestead 3, and it's kind of high
grass. This is October.
Um, this is fall. And, uh, all of a
sudden, I had this auditory sensation
like I like I'd entered either a
soundproof room or I'd gone underwater.
You know that when you this same
sensation when you when you cup your
ears.
And it was very very strange. And then
then he came in within sight. He I see
him out in the distance standing fully
upright in the back of this UTV that we
had all traveled in out there. And as I
continued to walk toward him, I yelled
his name. And it was it was that weird
sensation. I remember it was like this
very similar to like yelling underwater.
And by the time I came up to him after
shouting his name a couple of times, all
of a sudden, instantaneously,
right within getting within feet of him,
all of the sound came, all the ambient
noise, everything re returned and his
eyes fluttered open and he looks down at
me and he says, "Whoa, that was weird."
And I I I'm like, "What was weird?
What's happened? What have you been
doing?" And he says, "Well, how long
have I been how long have I been here?"
And and I said, "Well, we all got out.
We haven't seen you for the last 10
minutes." And he proceeds to relate that
uh when we all got out of the vehicle,
he stood up and was frozen, was unable
to move, couldn't open his mouth,
couldn't move his head, and everything
went black.
And the next thing he knew, I was
standing before him asking him what was
wrong, what was up. And he was shaking
his head saying, "Well, that was that
was weird." And I said, "Has this ever
happened to you? Is this something that
you've experienced before in your life?"
He said, "No." Well, the funny thing is
after he returned home,
uh, my principal investigator, Eric
Bard, followed up with him independently
just to check on things and to get his
testimony relative to what he had
witnessed that day, including a dramatic
UFO sightings right in front of us. Uh,
that that lasted for about 20 seconds.
and um and he had checked himself into
the hospital for weeks upon returning
from Skinwalker Ranch. He had been
rendered completely immobilized,
couldn't get out of bed. Doctors didn't
know what hit him, whether it was some
powerful strange virus, but he couldn't
move and was hospitalized for for weeks
immediately following his visit. And
to this day, I mean, that is it's one of
those those profound data points,
experiences. And that day was one of
those days where we had those
correlations, you know, smartphones
malfunctioning, rapid battery depletion,
all of our smartphones going from really
almost a full charge to zero to this
gentleman being rendered rendered
catatonic,
you know, and and really out for 10
minutes. We don't know what happened
during that that missing time.
>> And just recently you had another
cardiac arrest episode. Who who is Tom
Lewis and what happened to him?
>> Well, Tom was one of our caretakers. And
when we were, you know, simultaneous
with actual drilling activity,
you know, there below the mesa, right as
they were commencing drilling and that
that signal, that 1.6 6 gigahertz signal
appeared. All of a sudden, our caretaker
ends up being brought to his knees, has
to be run to the airport or not, run to
the doctor, to the hospital.
>> Are you okay?
>> No, I just I just blacked out
>> and took him off the property to go get
medical attention and it ended up in the
hospital and they didn't know what
caused it. uh have a cardiac episode in
tandem with the the digging activity
that was happening and the potential
correlation with the signal that
appeared. Who knows? I mean, correlation
is not causation. That's that's
something we always have to remind
ourselves of. You know, correlation does
not mean causation. But when you have
enough correlations,
>> oh yeah,
>> you have to start looking at the data
through a different lens. Well, you have
enough people who work there getting
hospitalized in sort of inexplicable
ways. Like the Thomas Winterton case, it
was like fluid in the back of his head,
right?
>> Yeah. His scalp had been separated from
his skull.
>> Yeah. Like what what is that? You know,
how
>> we've got hundreds of pages of medical
uh data of research. We we actually had
a medical expert come in from outside
uh to analyze the the material and it's
still it's still unexplained. It's still
baffling and you know some of these some
of these episodes um you know they we
have to be very very careful. That's why
we carry the Trifield meters. That's why
we monitor the environment. I mean it's
>> it's it's imperative that we're taking
data from from a from a multitude of
different platforms because we don't
know what kind of patterns may emerge
that may help us understand what is
happening.
>> And it's almost like the ranch itself
has an intelligence and has an allergic
reaction to the investigators doing
certain things. For a while, you
couldn't dig. Is that right? And if you
did dig, bad things would happen.
>> Yeah, that was the that was what we were
told when I bought the ranch. I was
told, you know, don't when you disturb
the earth, negative things happen. that
that was something that had been passed
on. Um I given what I had witnessed
personally, I felt like it was necessary
to
to follow that guidance to try to avoid
any harm coming to people or anything
negative happening. But
science investigation requires risk.
Um, it's, you know, I'll tell you Thomas
Winterton, who probably has the greatest
motivation to be off the ranch. I mean,
he has, he has total justification to
walk away from this effort over the
course of the last 10 years, um, is
insistent on being there
>> and being a constant presence and
running the experiments to find out what
we're dealing with, who or what are we
dealing with, what what is what is the
origin and the agenda? m associated with
the phenomena and hopefully we're we're
going to get some answers here and we
have I think we we have unveiled
discoveries
>> year after year I I think you can state
relative to the docu series episode
after episode we're showing hard data
we're showing third party experts going
on record with scientific in
instrumentation and and hard data
relative to the reality that uh there is
truly a strange phenomena occurring on
this property.
>> In the medical field, there is something
called a Herxheimer's reaction and it is
curing the body of something, but you
feel the malady as it's coming out of
your body. So say you have like a fungal
disease, you take an antifungal,
>> you have this die off effect and your
immune response is triggered because you
kind of experience the disease over
again before it comes out. Do you think
that what some of these people are
experiencing cuz it's fascinating that
you know Thomas Winter and a lot of
these people they they experience things
and then they want to come back. Yeah.
And I think about like psychedelic
experiences and it's often described as
like
impurities within oneself get excavated
and come out.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you think there's something to that
with this portal? You enter the portal
and anything
ill about you or you know you maybe a
part of yourself that's not fully
integrated with the rest that gets
tagged with the with the bad stuff and
then
and you feel it or something.
>> You know that that that may be a valid
explanation. I think
one thing we have been observing is that
the ranch appears to amplify
consciousness,
>> right?
>> Amplify.
>> What does that mean? [sighs]
>> Heighten your senses. Um I think it
amplifies intent. I mean those who bring
positive
have at times said that they felt very
positive things happen. Those who bring
negative activity or a negative
>> adversarial attitude end up having that
visited upon them or that amplified
>> on the property.
>> That's what they call psychedelics.
Non-specific amplifiers.
>> What? So what what's an example of a
positive thing? Oh, we've had some. I
mean, you know, one of our most
controversial figures on the ranch is,
of course, my head of security for
years. Dragon.
>> Yes.
>> Uh Bryant Dragon Arnold. Um and he's my
old mission companion. We served
>> uh Mormon mission together. He was my my
trainer for for months, my first
companion in the field. And uh we've
been good friends for over 30 years as a
result of that bonding experience. But
uh he uh
Dragon who lost his father and his his
uh missed his dad who was his mentor is
I think he's he's had experiences on the
property where he's felt his father's
presence where he's felt that in a in a
positive way.
>> Um
it was funny. Dragon was one of those
for years that didn't see anything,
experience anything. He felt like he was
repellent
>> to the phenomena which was interesting.
We all would joke about it and of course
everything comes ultimately you spend
enough time there and uh things happen
uh in the environment that that shift
you from being a skeptic uh to a to an
experiencer. I think most people who
have spent time devoted time on the
ranch have seen have seen that shift
from being skeptics or open-minded even
skeptics to to full-on experiencers are
the crew who who are dedicated every
year to documenting what is happening
with the documentary series effort which
which is only about 14 weeks out of the
year. I mean, we're running the
investigation year round. And a lot of
these experts like Pete Keltzy, Chris
Roberts, our our archaeologist,
um, our ground penetrating radar, uh,
experts, they're there. They come back
periodically, whether there are cameras
or not under my guidance and and my
pocketbook to continue getting data. But
it's funny um those individuals have
come back and and and most of most of
those third party credentialed experts
all leave
>> with
with data
>> and with firhand witness that there is
something strange going on on that
property. Has anybody come in fully
skeptical
and left completely kind of converted
that there's something there?
>> Yeah. Many
>> many
>> numerous numerous I think many people
come to the ranch these experts
>> actually wanting to debunk it. In fact,
it's it's in their professional interest
to bring their science and their
technology, their expertise to find a
prosaic natural explanation. It's not in
their interest to to have their
equipment end up being destroyed and
them sitting there scratching their
heads on camera. These people are coming
at great risk. They're putting
themselves not only in harm's way
physically relative to the phenomena,
but they're also putting their
reputations
>> on the line. And people don't people
don't register that. They all think that
it's television that these people are
making big bucks. They're not making a
bunch of money. I mean, they they're
being paid a modest stipened or
consulting, you know, contract to be
able to come and and share their
expertise and perform their work. But,
you know, most of these people, you
know, they're not looking to get famous.
They're just performing a a function and
they are coming onto the ranch many
times as absolute skeptics
bound and determined to show that their
approach that their equipment that their
expertise is going to help us understand
that there's a natural prosaic
explanation and they leave like us with
with more questions than answers. I mean
the drone you look at Sky Elements
you've got one of the biggest drone
operators in the planet. They have two
Guinness Book of Worlds Records. They
put hundreds of drones in the air.
They've they've performed some of the
most well choreographed precision drone
uh exercises. And they've they've
sustained so much damage. I We're
talking hundreds of thousands of dollars
worth of damage to their equipment and
they've seen it completely outright
manipulated on that property.
What?
What the heck's going on? It's raining
drones over here. Raining drones.
>> Hundreds of drones.
>> Yeah.
>> All tested in the minutes beforehand.
Batteries fully charged. All of their
operating systems verified to be fully
functioning and in sync. And within
minutes of launching above the triangle,
above the the east field,
all of them start behaving mysteriously
and start dropping like bricks from the
sky. We I mean we had one of the most
terrifying
incidents and experiments uh with with
that exercise where people could have
died. I mean, we're talking about these
things dropping from hundreds of feet in
the sky,
>> terraining drones.
>> It was It was something I I'll never
forget.
>> Has anybody come a skeptic, spent a
substantial amount of time at the ranch,
and left a skeptic?
>> Uh, no one who spent a substantial
amount of time.
>> Okay. To my knowledge, anyone who spent
a dedicated amount of time u has has
left at least acknowledging that that
there equipment doesn't function, that
there's something in the space.
>> Yeah.
>> That is manipulating things and and and
not not explained.
>> There is one reporter turned internet
troll Steven Greenste
on the ranch and he came in obviously
with confirmation bias.
>> Yes. And the problem is if you come in
with confirmation bias and you are only
cherry-picking the the data points that
are shared with you or those things that
you're documenting that support your
narrative
>> totally
>> then you're you're going to you're going
to veer that direction. I mean, he
completely ignored the the testimony of
the deputy sheriff, Chris Porett, who
went on record that long before the
Shermans, I mean, back to the Meyers in
the 1980s, he was responding to cattle
mutilation events, UFO activity, other
high stranges on the
>> This was the original owners of the
Myers
>> that owned it for decades. Edith,
>> the Sherman and I think yeah, we don't
have to spend too much time on
>> but back on on reporters on that
journalist in particular. I mean there
are so many data points
>> that were completely ignored
>> um because they didn't fit a negative
skeptical narrative. And
>> I don't have a problem with critical
thinking or skepticism. I I don't I but
I do have a problem with cherrypicking
the data. I mean we can do the same
thing. Well, it's also like you can
Yeah, you can cherrypick and then you
can also describe things in a way that
makes them seem funny or silly,
>> but I guarantee you he wouldn't want to
spend a month on the ranch probably
because I think it wouldn't seem so
funny or silly then, you [laughter]
know.
>> No. And
everyone everyone has a different
journey. I you know I I I'm very open
and transparent and hopeful that those
who look at the data, those who look at
the facts
um will will hopefully learn something
from them that will be part of that
journey.
>> You mentioned the Meyers and the
Shermans. The Shermans owned the ranch
before Bigalow and I believe they report
seeing this sort of werewolf creature.
>> Yeah. large direwolf that actually
attacked their prized cattle. I mean,
they were terrorized by UFOs. Uh they
had all sorts of poltergeist like
activity. They had these huge wolflike
creatures that that attacked their
cattle.
>> They shot it with a shotgun at close
range and it survived.
>> 12 gauge shotgun and and survived. Just
walked off casually. We have all of
these reports that were actually
ultimately documented by the Desireette
News by a a journalist Zack Van Ike. is
his name. He's still active. And his
story actually was brought to the
attention of Robert Bigalow
>> and led to Mr. Bigalow flying in
>> and acquiring the ranch, meeting with
the Sherman family being convinced that
it's absolutely real, that what they
were experiencing was real. I believe
they showed him a lot of evidence. They
had VHS tapes as well from what I've
been told. And and we're talking within
a rapid
rapid period of time. Uh the Bigalow
team lifted up, you know, three
observation towers.
>> We call them bait pens or observation
towers. You've got these three
observation towers that still sit
ominously across the landscape of the
property. Brought in a security trailer,
you know, a four bedroomedroom, double
wide for the security and scientists to
reside in that we're cycling through.
and um
and they started taking data. I mean,
I'd mentioned the veterinarian, the the
gentleman that was brought in to
investigate the cattle mutilations and
conduct the the necropsies and and
provide those reports. I mean, it was a
very serious effort. Uh the first of its
kind under NIDS and I
>> what a courageous I we stand on the
shoulders of giants. I I have to give
credit where credit's due. Robert
Bigalow had the courage to come out and
spend his own money, time, and put his
reputation on the line with his resource
and his people to to lock down this
piece of property, this ranch, and and
really study it. So fascinating. Yeah.
You have NID's National Institute of
Discovery Sciences in the 90s early
2000s and then that kind of morphs into
this officially funded program called
OAP which is funded by Harry Reid where
you have Bigalow Aerospace officially
>> studying the phenomenon at Skinwalker
Ranch. This is uh written about in the
book in which book? The secrets of
Skinwalker Ranch.
>> No, it's actually in Skinwalkers of the
Pentagon.
>> Sorry. Skinwalkers of the Pentagon.
There's a book um was written just a few
years ago um by Col Kellaher, George
Knap, and uh and another individual
who'd actually been part of the military
the
>> Saksky maybe and
>> and they they go on record relative to
the Pentagon funded black budget program
that spanned years
with tens of millions of dollars focused
on documenting the reality of the
phenomena and really the national
security implications because let's face
it, I mean any place on the planet,
especially here on the on United States
soil that is seeing this frequency of
activity
is that defies any explanation.
>> Apparently, there's still stuff that
might be classified about it. Um, Peter
Levveno is a past guest on the show and
he described a meeting with Chris Melon
and Hal Putoff where Skinwalker Ranch
comes up and he has to leave the meeting
>> because he doesn't have the proper
clearances. We asked about something
concerning Skinwalker Ranch and an
appearance at Skinwalker Ranch and the
equipment that was there. They all got
silent. They suddenly all stopped
talking
and that was all he had to say.
>> Skinwalker
>> for skinwalker.
>> Why? So clearly things were learned and
gleaned I imagine in that time frame
that were sensitive. And that book is
fascinating because they have this guy I
think his name is Axelrod. He's a
pseudonym and he sort of studies the
phenomena but he was the chief um office
of naval intelligence investigator on
the Nimmits case in 2004 and he's you
know showing up at Skinwalker Ranch and
studying this stuff. Some people online
have speculated that that might be J
Stratton, who went on to run the UAP
task force, which was the official
investigation program uh that like
provided all the data that David Grush
ended up looking into. And he, you know,
took it further than anybody else on
that UAPF and, you know, blew the
whistle that he thinks there's, you
know, been this multi-deade long, you
know, generational multigenerational,
you know, reverse engineering and crash
retrieval program of UFOs. So,
>> it's such an interesting history and
Skinwalker Ranch is at the center of UFO
history. It's not some ancillary, you
know, just civil side thing. It's like
it's really, you know, kind of the
epicenter.
>> It's the center of gravity whether we
like it or not. And it's not it's not
because we're trying to sensationalize
it. It's it's just a fact. There isn't
another property. There's not a there's
no other location like this where you
have dozens of government
scientists,
military researchers
all brought together over years to study
the reality of the phenomena. And even
though that program ceased in 2013,
just a few years before the transfer to
me,
uh those individuals that were part of
that program have been forever changed.
There are individuals
that visited the ranch under that
program that refused to ever set foot on
the property ever again, that have
refused
>> really
>> to come out. I mean, even Mr. Bigalow
has refused to come out. really
>> never wants to set foot on the property.
In fact, um I doesn't even want to be
asked
>> why.
>> You'll have to ask him.
>> Okay.
>> It's not [laughter] my It's not my story
to tell.
>> Sure.
>> George Knap and others that are closer
to Mr. Bigalow have have discussed some
of his
potential motivations. It's it's a fact.
It's in the public domain. I was I got
very disturbed
toward the end
and I [clears throat] realized uh holy
crap
>> hitchhikers.
>> Well, yeah, that you know and so
hitchhikers being that you take you take
things home with you. Does that give you
pause
>> hearing that? Hearing that a guy with,
you know, a lot of resources like you
have, uh, investigated this over decades
and he came out being like, I I don't
want to go back.
>> Yeah. Well, he he had such negative
experiences. It
>> it impacted his family. M
[sighs and gasps]
>> it you talk about the hitchhiker effect
>> um made manifest in such a negative
negative way and his story may be one of
the most
profound. Um
>> does that make you think twice?
>> Sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Especially the last couple of years. the
last two years, every time I fly out
there with my brother for a briefing,
uh, anytime I'm on that property, I look
at it differently
>> because of the the experiences that I've
had and how much it has been brought
home
>> to roost. Um, it's, you know,
investigation at Skinwalker Ranch is not
for the faint of heart. And I've
I've uh I've found that it's it's it's
had a very real physical impact on
people's lives, including mine.
>> What did Bigalow say to you when gave
you the keys to the ranch? Did he say,
"Good luck?"
>> Well, he knew I was a skeptic. I mean, I
I thought I was truly going to debunk
the property. I I didn't think there was
any validity to the claims and I
actually intended to to donate it to the
Boy Scouts of America for scouting
programs. I I loved scouting growing up.
Was an Eagle Scout along with my best
friend Chris Lee. We both got our Eagle
Scouts together and I thought it what a
what an incredible place. I mean, it'd
be great to have a piece of property in
the basin to to donate to that effort. I
was on the board of the National Parks
Council at the time and
I really just wanted to be satisfied
that there wasn't anything unusual or
negative going on there and and intended
to donate it uh for that use. And of
course I
after 6 months of owning it, I went from
being a skeptic to a to an experiencer.
And I know I know that uh
you know this is real that we have hard
data demonstrating that and it's not for
the faint of heart. This is not a place
that you let the public in casually.
There's a reason why we have a military
grade gated entrance and a guard post
there that that that actually people
have to check in with. And there's a
reason why we have over 80 surveillance
cameras and multifysics boxes with edge
processing. And we have a data center on
site that is processing terabytes of
data. It's not for a television docue
series. It's not just for some
sensational you know, ghost
huntersesque effort. This is a realworld
frontier science investigation
>> that is documenting the reality of
phenomena.
I think better than anything else.
>> And from the Bigalow days, you have all
these real scientific papers, these
derds coming out about biologically
traversible wormholes and quantum
teleportation from really top
scientists. I mean, you had Jim Latsky
who we mentioned earlier who was a DIA
rocket scientist. You have Eric Davis
who's as deep as anyone on kind of
frontier propulsion modalities. He's
written a book called Frontiers of
Propulsion Science where he basically
goes through, you know, the gamut like
all every single, you know, exotic
propulsion modality. And so these are
serious guys. Um, did Bigalow, you know,
note your skepticism and say, "Oh,
you'll see."
>> Yeah. He said, "Good luck with that." I
remember him saying something like,
"Good luck with that." And I loved loved
all of our interactions. In fact, he's
he's uh he's quite an interesting
figure. I uh I really enjoyed visiting
him uh down in his element in North Las
Vegas. He has a worldclass aerospace
compound. Uh and great success in the
commercial real estate industry, in the
hospitality industry that I that I
respect and and I'd mentioned this
earlier. I mean, we stand on the
shoulders of giants. If not for his
courage
and his own curiosity and being willing
to fund Frontier efforts, we wouldn't I
I wouldn't have the privilege of being
the steward of this property. It would
have never been
>> brought to my attention. And frankly,
there wouldn't be an effort a disclosure
effort like this going on in the public
eye. And um even though our efforts are
vastly different, it's apples and
oranges. My my investigation the last 10
years is on a completely different scale
and level.
Those initial
>> efforts,
>> those foundational
investigative efforts uh still inspire
and guide. I find his trajectory very
interesting as well where he I think
probably starts off a little more nuts
and bolts interested, you know, and now
you have George Knap testifying before
Congress and others, you know, saying
this publicly that Loheed Martin was
trying to divest itself of UFO material
in 2008 to Bigalow Aerospace. And
they're even naming a guy, Jim Ryder,
who is a VP of Loheed Martin space
systems, who was in charge of this. And
there's a speech that Jim Ryder gives
that's available online where he's
talking about davas and fairies and jin
and he's talking about extrensory
perception and the veil thinning
>> and is that veil between what we call
davas and fairies and mankind uh
separating and being more clear. And so
[clears throat] it's this like very
spiritual guy working at Loheed Martin
where clearly he's privy to knowledge
beyond like what we think of as the
scientific frontier and then you have
people naming him as the guy in charge
of the UFO program which is trying to
divest itself of material to Bigalow
aerospace. So you think of Bigalow in
the context of nuts and bolts and then
now he's funding essays about life after
death, right? He seems to have kind of
walked a more mystical path at the end
of his life.
>> Um and uh and and I'm I'm curious about
that trajectory. That's that's
interesting to me.
>> Yeah, it's consciousness studies. I
mean, he's he's
>> he's shifted his focus to consciousness
related studies. I love I love some of
the work that has been done and the
insights drawn from that. I find it
really interesting. It's funny, there's
a book, Dan Brown book, you know, who
wrote the Da Vinci Code is called The
Secret of Secrets. Have you read it?
>> No, I haven't.
>> It's a fantastic book. Takes place in
Prague.
>> Okay.
>> And uh and deals with
>> these topics, deals with
>> really
>> um
>> you know, what happens when we die, you
know, the the nature of consciousness u
which ties into what is the what is the
nature of reality itself.
>> Yes. And um I love so much of the new
thought and uh
>> effort in these areas.
>> Yeah,
>> I think it's all interconnected. So you
when people ask me is is it aliens? Do
you do you think it's aliens? Beings
from other worlds or
>> interdimensional, multi-dimensional?
Is it time travel? Are we seeing time
travelers? People coming back, our
future selves. uh watching us or is it
spiritual? Are we dealing with angels
and demons or some type of advanced
consciousness? I think it's all the
above. I think what we're seeing here
just as much as I've witnessed the nuts
and bolts, I mean, what took me from
being a skeptic
>> to an experiencer was actually seeing
what can only be described as a physical
craft. I mean, a flying saucer 100 ft
above the mea in broad daylight right in
front of us that performed maneuvers
and and operated in a way that just
defies any conventional explanation. And
it I mean you could see it was late in
the afternoon. You could see the sun
kind of reflecting glinting off of you
know the side of it. And it it was very
real and it was witnessed by by all of
us. I mean, we're sitting there,
>> multiple witnesses,
>> uh, and this was immediately following,
of course, all of the the
electromagnetic anomalies, the the rapid
battery depletion, the acute medical
episode, and
and
it was gamechanging. It's it's funny how
something that
only spanned 20 seconds time changed my
entire world view
>> and prompted me to question these things
and frankly start pouring millions of
dollars
>> at the time into into the infrastructure
and the the investigative tools to be
able to to document it. So I think there
is definitely a physical aspect of the
phenomena that is very real but there's
also a metaphysical there is a there is
another um
aspect to it and it there's there's good
reason behind calling it unidentified
aerial phenomena as far as UFO because
UAP almost it conjures up a little bit
broader
>> spectrum don't you think of
>> for sure yes
>> what you're what what is being
documented and observed.
>> Yeah. It's not just a craft. It's just,
you know, it's phenomenal of light. It's
>> it's it there are there is a diversity.
It was so funny.
>> Um a couple months after I bought the
ranch, so I bought the ranch on April
Fool's Day, 2016, and then by
>> No way. By June, funny funny side note,
um by June,
um I was seeing photo images of craft of
objects above the property that were
were highly unusual. you know, when
checking the the the flight data for the
UN basin during those timestamps, during
those periods of time, there was no
commercial or private air traffic that
that was even remotely close. Um, and
it, you know, the first image looked
almost like a Millennium Falcon was a
disc-like object that was that was
glowing. the the second object that came
a few weeks later was was was
different structure
uh completely silent observed by three
witnesses my my ranch security and
surveyor along with my caretakers at the
time. So there is a diversity of objects
of craft if you want to call them craft.
There there's a diversity of uh those
things that are appearing which speaks
to there being potentially different
propulsion systems at play
completely different origins
>> and agendas.
Um, the idea that we're living in a
cosmic zoo,
>> that this planet
>> is for whatever reason being monitored,
is being uh closely watched,
>> even manipulated by
a diversity of
beings of intelligences or you with
different origins and agendas, some
malevolent, some not. So,
>> do you ever flirt with the idea that the
Navajo had it right? Have you looked
into their sort of witchcraft
traditions?
>> I think there's validity to every
tradition. I mean, I I am not going to
dismiss any uh respected
uh cultural tradition
>> cuz I was doing a little googling and it
was like talking about luminous objects,
these, you know, beings, you know, skin
walkers specifically going after animals
>> and it was like all these things that
you're observing on the ranch. Right.
Um, so I found that fascinating.
>> Yeah, the ancients were on to something.
I mean, they they weren't speaking
ignorantly. I think they were very
advanced. I mean, we we've seen the
evidence that society thousands of years
ago before Christ, they mean they were
developing computing devices.
>> Yeah.
>> I recently went to Athens, Greece to see
the uh the antitheera mechanism. Have
you ever seen that in the museum? seen
it on my computer. But
>> I mean, this is hundreds of years before
Christ and the technology that went into
developing this device that was
recovered from this ancient shipwreck.
You just think, oh, how many years of
engineering expertise went into that?
And who's to say that that was even the
most advanced of its time? It could have
been one of the more rudimentary, one of
the more basic
>> Yes. computing artifacts that actually
could track the lunar phases. A very
sophisticated device. I think
>> that's incredible.
>> I think we're we're still trying to
understand our history.
>> Yes.
>> And the history of the world. I think so
much has been buried.
>> I agree. I mean like look at the
pyramids and the fact that you need you
know I think one of the leading you know
uh researchers on how it was built is a
guy John Pierre Houdan and it's like the
fact that you have to go to some sort of
internal ramp and that you know it's
like external and then the the the
incline goes you know isn't is you know
is too steep at a certain point and then
it has to go internal and then you have
to put the capstone on top. It's like we
are uh contorting ourselves into all
sorts of crazy gymnastic positions just
to explain something that was supposedly
built in 2500 BC. Maybe it was built
older than that.
>> You've seen these uh these Italian
scientists that have advanced
>> uh new evidence.
>> I've had them on. Yeah,
>> we have measured uh approximately
over 1 kilometer of depth. So the base
of the pyramid to something that is
located at the bottom.
>> So eight pillars, you know, in this
shape of an energy grid. Yeah. Beyond.
Yeah. They've used synthetic aperture
radar Doppler tomography and this kind
of specific inversion method that he's,
you know, the software.
>> We're quite familiar with it.
>> Oh, there you go. Interesting. Okay.
Maybe they'll come out to Skinwalker
Ranch.
>> Oh, that wouldn't it be funny if they
were involved with our effort and
applying their technology to help us
understand the nature of the landscape?
>> I love it.
>> Wouldn't that be interesting?
>> Wouldn't that be interesting? All right.
Well, stay tuned. That's exciting.
>> Um, yeah.
>> No, we're we're not screwing around. Uh,
we really are bringing in the leading
experts. Uh,
>> you need you need that technology
because there's something under the
Mesa. Yeah, there definitely is.
>> There's something under the mesa. I
mean, to be extracting material that is
manufactured that's engineered from
hundreds of feet within the mesa.
>> Yeah. Heat heat resistant ceramic tiles.
>> Yeah. With electromagnetic
signatures
>> that are with electromagnetic signatures
that seem to be self-reping at times
with that look like maybe tiles that you
would see on like a space shuttle or
something. Yeah. So that is under the
mesa and you have these two bore holes
and you keep hitting metal and you have
exotic elements. You have europium and
tallium down there and
>> so what what is what is down there?
>> Well, it's frustrating people all over
the world right now. So we've got we
have millions of viewers millions of
enthusiasts that are quite frustrated
because they want to see us blow up the
mason and just get to it. And the
reality is we we can't do that. We have
to con conduct this this effort like you
would a medical biopsy, a very
sensitive, delicate medical biopsy
because you don't want to destroy the
very material that you hope to extract
and be able to study. So imagine if
there's a Stargate within the mesa. If
there's some some advanced technology
that is behind or involved with the
phenomena that we're seeing manifest
above and below the property as above so
below as the Masonic symbol on the
property from ancient times seems to
denote.
You don't want to damage the very thing
that you hope to unearth if if it's even
if it's a something as simple as a a a
garage door opener equivalent to another
dimension,
>> right?
>> You know, why would you want to if
that's ultimately what what lies within
the mesa that we're studying there on
the ranch? We we want to be very
careful. And so we've used the most
advanced ground penetrating radar. And
what have you found that there's that
there is material?
>> One of my biggest takeaways from doing
this show over the last few years is
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UK hacker Gary McKinnon describing a
spreadsheet of non-terrestrial officers
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>> And what have you found that there's
that there is material?
>> It's a 6 foot wide.
>> Well, there's there's actually
there's there's both a debris field of
material that does not fit. that is um
unusual that is not part of the natural
uh part of the the landscape the soil
composition that has been verified.
They've even said that there are voids.
It appears that there are voids uh
within the mesa uh which you know that's
what led us initially to do the ground
penetrating radar studies on the mesa.
It wasn't because we thought there was
any exotic material. It was because
there were rumors going back to the the
Bigalow era and even before going back
to the Meyers that there was a cave
system that there were tunnels that
there was something covered up that
there had been a cover up relative to
some type of underground
structure. And so we thought, well,
let's debunk I mean, because part of our
scientific effort is to chase down these
claims and to to either validate them to
see if there's any truth to them or be
able to dismiss it and move on to the
next experiment, the next effort within
our investigation. Well, we end up
bringing in the experts in ground
penetrating radar and they're like,
"Yeah, there's something strange here in
this region of the mesa. There's this
unusual material and these voids." So,
what do we do? Well, we start boring. We
start drilling. Well, every drilling
expert, and I'm talking every one of
them that we've brought out, has had
dramatic equipment malfunction. They've
had their drill bits. I mean, these are
these are some of the most impervious
drill bits, um, tungsten carbide steel
that have been rendered completely
damaged
and unusable.
These gentlemen that are performing
these drilling exercises,
they do this all over the world. They go
through solid granite. They go through
mountains.
>> And you found a you found a nickel. I
>> It has been one of the most baffling
parts of our research. And then Yeah.
Not not only are we extracting
engineered material from hundreds of
feet within the mesa, but we recently
brought out a 1964
aged nickel,
you know, that has patina on it that uh
that was somehow deposited there, which
are the archaeologist that we've had
involved who is a credentialed
archaeologist, his name is Chris
Roberts, uh reminded us that it's not
uncommon at at surveys or archaeological
dig sites that those professionals upon
concluding that work or in the midst of
it, they'll they'll drop a a coin, you
know, with the current date in there
just to to kind of mark their territory,
if you will. So, we have the territory
seemingly marked and then we pull up the
aerial survey record of the ranch to try
to see what was happening. Was there
something going on? Was there someone
disturbing the earth at that time? Is
there any evidence? And do you probably
do you remember what Dr. Taylor and Eric
Bard found?
>> So, here's all three [music] of them
beside each other.
>> And you can see that there's a
significant spot that it thinks [music]
is has been dithered or smoothed with
some sort of filter in the 1969 image
that's not in the other images. the the
photos were doctorred but specifically
in this kind of teardrop shape which is
where the material seems to be from the
ground penetrating radar.
>> So well and and aerial record is largely
void. It's been deleted
>> from strangely
1964
to 1969.
So the mystery deepens. I I will say
every time we get answers
>> we get more questions. Well, am I wrong
that the subplot to all of this is that
there is a UFO under the mesa at
Skinwalker Ranch?
>> Uh,
we'll see. [laughter]
>> I think definitionally, you know, UFO
involves flying, but it's kind of a UFO.
You got material of a different density
spotted by ground penetrating radar. You
have you have Europium to metals found.
Europium, I believe, was mentioned by
David Grush as well in, you know, his
own investigations.
>> I I talked to people who really did
analyze the stuff from the real deal
stuff, and it's super weird. It's like
heavy element
>> um, you know, Europium, California
stuff. It's like in these atomic
arrangements
>> that make like no sense. You know, this
is through X-ray defraction.
>> So, you have that data point and then
you have the fact this like as above so
below. You have like the the blob and
the you know this like almost like field
above the thing.
>> Well, we've we have what we call the
bubble. We have the bubble.
>> We have this field over the the blob. I
mean, we did capture from multiple
>> Mhm.
>> cameras
>> a an unexplained mass
>> that that was actually documented in
tandem with the rockets being destroyed
in some of those launches above the
triangle. But you also have this field
or what what many of my people have been
referring to as as um the bubble that
has been mapped using LAR and other
platforms
to
to actually um
maybe explain that the something going
on. I it it actually encompasses a big
part of the property. It is you can call
it a force field. You can call it, you
know,
a region of the property that has a
sustained.
>> It's a an invisible roughly spherical
energy anomaly formally identified and
named in season 6. Believed to extend
both above and below ground and treated
by the team as the likely unifying
explanation for many previously separate
phenomena, GPS failures, signal
interference, instrument malfunctions.
Correct. you launch rockets at it and
when it'll it'll bounce off the boundary
of this sort of thing
>> repeatedly. And that's the thing with
scientific investigation. You repeat the
experiments to get repeated data and all
of those collective data points. They
help us map this region and this field
effect. It's really baffling and and it
does cause one to to question whether
what is within you know whatever is
within the mesa
um you know it could be it could be the
cause it could be involved with it.
>> It's like you have a force field around
this UFO object or something.
>> That's so
>> well it seems to be a defense mechanism
potentially because we've seen equipment
destroyed. We've seen equipment
malfunction and when we're probing the
bubble in this region, we see UAP. We
see unidentified aerial phenomena appear
almost as if on call almost
like we're being monitored or warned
and then you have the the uh covert
military
>> surveillance. I mean, when you have
Blackhawk helicopters, unmarked
Blackhawk helicopters showing up in the
middle of the night, the middle of an
experiment during a time when you have a
a NOTM, you have an notice to airmen
that people shouldn't be flying within
the airspace that we're conducting
experimental activity. And we have we
have unknown craft that descend upon the
property
that are not transponding
that appear to be menacing and not even
the attorney general or the governor can
get answers. That just compounds the
mystery in my mind.
>> What do you think these unmarked
helicopters are doing and who are they
acting on behalf of?
>> I don't know. I think it's just it's
somehow being tasked, I believe, by some
faction of the mil military-industrial
complex, some entity or entities that
are involved with these topics. Um, and
I think that there's a there's a greater
concern that has emerged even within
months of us pulling this material out
of our drill site on the Mesa, all of a
sudden an oil and gas
company appears. M
>> ramrod's permits through even with with
even with us
filing notice filing notice that we are
not in agreement with it that it it
compromises our investigation. The
county goes ahead in spite of our notice
and our filing and grants them a permit
right above
our drill site right on the border of my
property and they they descend on the
property with millions of dollars worth
of equipment and personnel and they it
is just the most reckless aggressive
effort.
Do you think there's some I don't think
it's coincidence.
>> Do you think there's some cutout shell
company or extension of some
>> or they're being used as a front?
>> Yeah.
>> For some diabolical effort to extract
the same material that we are probing
for or to compromise the nature of our
investigation. And that's what pisses me
off. I'll tell you what pisses me off
the most over the cap course of the last
year is after a decade
>> of pouring the resources into this
effort and having some of the leading
scientists and engineers on the planet
involved
>> with documenting the reality. All of a
sudden, right when we're actually
extract extracting hard evidence
of engineered material that is out of
place, out of time, all of a sudden,
here comes some other third party
enterprise right on top of us
that proceeds to aggressively drill.
Um, and
I I we have a legal action currently. I
don't know that we'll prevail. I mean,
we'll I I just not only has it
disrupted,
you know, aspects of the investigation
and our quiet enjoyment, but I think it
is highly suspicious. It's not
coincidental. The the the adjacent
property owner that leased this property
to the north owns over a,000 acres. Why
would they situate this operation on
roughly the postage stamp the 10 acres
that is literally closest right on my
border and right there closest proximity
to our drill site. So there's there's a
lot of things that are going to come out
in the weeks and months to come. I hope
that will help us get some answers. But
I I'll tell you the plot thickens
>> and it's real. This is not
We're not making this up. We're not
sensationalizing anything. You just have
to sit back and watch.
>> And there are too many disturbing
things that are happening around our
investigation. I still can't get over
the fact that there's this force field
around this object underground. And then
so I know
>> that's like kind of blocking
interference from, you know, rockets to
signals
>> to drones. We've even had fixedwing
aircraft that actually document that
there's something that their their
instruments
>> their instruments
>> go haywire. Even the helicopter, I mean,
we've we've tasked the helicopter with
performing some of these these I think
pretty advanced surveys. And right there
at the edge of the the bubble at the
edge of this region there is this field
there is this
>> and effect that there's a defense in the
air and then there's a defense on the
ground where if you dig things seem to
happen as well.
>> So it's like this object I mean I don't
know like it's this is like this is cra
reality is crazier than fiction.
>> Yeah it's right out of some Stephen King
novel. It's out of the Stephen King
novel and you know how this novel ends
is like
>> some pure of heart kid or something
unlocks it. Like it's like you have all
these like military guys and like you
know and like and then and then somebody
somebody who's just hless and like you
know walks in and like unlocks the
treasure or something.
>> Who knows? It's like the end of ET when
they discover ET. They finally find ET
and all of the
>> the shadowy
>> operatives come in.
>> Mhm.
>> And and descend on the property and and
you know, you hope that there's always
going to be some positive outcome. I'm
>> right now I'm I'm more determined.
>> I'm more inspired
>> by the reality and the data that we have
that we have collected that we've
presented transparently to the public. I
mean, we've allowed the public a peak
behind the curtain. Yeah.
>> Like no other effort.
>> But it's it's interesting to me the the
show is so good and it's so transparent.
And then it's interesting to me that,
you know, I had Bob Lazar in here
earlier and I was I think this didn't
make it into the cut cuz we we talked
for a long time. Um and it was, you
know, less relevant to his story. But we
were t we talked about the show. when we
were talking about you because I'm sure
and now didn't he get he bought
Skinwalker Ranch right around that time
too, right?
>> Bought Skinwalker Ranch around that
time. Yeah.
>> And yeah, I think he was convinced that
they're all kind of connected.
>> And I was like the subplot the whole
show is amazing and the subplot to it is
that there is a UFO under the mesa. And
I was like and I was like why don't
people make that explicit connection and
you guys don't necessarily do that. You
lead people maybe
>> to that.
>> We're we're led by the we're led by the
data, not an inherited narrative.
>> Yeah. Well, that's cool.
>> That's something that Eric Bard has been
>> You could be more sensationalist than
you are.
>> Oh, 10 times more if
>> if this wasn't
grounded in absolute truth,
>> which is my deal with the History
Channel,
>> which they have honored. I mean, I was
only willing to do this series, to come
out of the shadows and go public
if it was all grounded in facts, in
truth. Nothing can be manipulated,
contrived.
Nothing can be fabricated relative to
the docue series or not only my
reputation but the reputation of all of
the incredible people that are involved
would be compromised and it's not worth
it. No amount of money, no amount of
whatever notoriety or fame is ever worth
compromising your reputation or your
integrity.
>> No. And it's like when you have people
going to the hospital and get, you know,
serious health adverse events, it's like
you're not faking any of this stuff.
[laughter] That's
>> ridiculous. That's not for television. I
mean, when Dragon is immediately act
evacuating
>> Yeah.
>> our caretaker
>> from the site in the middle of an
experiment because of a a cardiac
episode.
And that whole sequence of events plays
out on camera because that's my deal.
That's we're we're transparently
allowing our investigation to be
documented for months of the year
>> and to be to to be televised. And
>> some of it's awkward. I mean, some of it
isn't perfect. Some of our experiments
are inconclusive.
This is a human effort. But to see very
real disturbing things play out on
camera, um it's it's uh it's sobering.
>> And when you mention this oil and gas,
you know, maybe front, clearly they have
ulterior motives. I think of this um
former director of NSA research, Eric
Hazeline, who I had on my show. He wrote
a a quote unquote fiction book. I think
it was called Out of Time. And my
belief, this is me saying this, I think
he hid some truths in it. You know, that
text gritty texture of reality is how
weird it is.
>> Um, there's a lot of the intelligence
world in this because, you know, they
say write about what you know and I'm a
neuroscientist and I was a spy and so
it's really an espionage novel, too.
>> And it's all about this, you know,
forbidden archaeological artifact,
right? um that is very uh anacronistic
in that it doesn't make sense for you
know for its time that it was found and
it's sort of advanced but it's ancient
and you have essentially these like
modern mafia gang wars in order it is
the wild wild west as far as you know
finding the thing selling it on the
black market and that's what this feels
like it's like you're reporting on this
stuff transparently and in the kind of
open source world and that I'm Sure. I
mean, you got to think that like CIA and
stuff is tracking what you're finding.
>> Sure. I mean, someone when you've got
the National Science Foundation's $50
million Gulfream 5 jet
>> being caught multiple times conducting
very sophisticated survey work at over
40,000 ft directly above the triangle.
>> Yeah.
>> Come on. and you've got the governor
that it happens to be occurring on the
day that you have the former governor of
the state of Utah there for a briefing
to be involved in an experiment.
>> I mean,
doesn't
>> at what point, [gasps] you know, do we
do we do we show some respect to the
fact that there's something going on and
that there is definitely a cast of
characters involved with monitoring what
is happening at the ranch? You're
probably being tracked by the government
and by random private interests.
[laughter]
>> So you're like 360 surrounded
>> or special compartmentalized
>> or special compartmentalized interest,
you know, and waved in bigoted special
access programs, subject matter experts.
>> Yeah. Beyond any accountability that
have access to resources that
>> we can only dream of.
>> And did you you first heard about the
ranch through Hal Put Off and Kit Green?
Is that right?
>> I did. Yeah, they were my they were my
senior science adviserss with a former
endeavor that we had shut down that I we
had terminated and uh
>> well we should talk about that because I
think it shows your skeptical
inclination going into Skinwalker Ranch
was was come about in an honest way.
>> So
>> yeah, in 2010 Dr. Putoff and Dr. Green
were part of the science advisory board
for an effort called motion sciences
where I had basically
raised the money millions of dollars
uh of our own money and and you know a
closely held group to test and validate
certain claims involving gravitational
physics and over unity energy and what
some might proverbately call
anti-gravity.
>> Correct. Um the you know the figure that
was involved in that was an early
internet pioneer that I had worked with
and represented as a young commercial
real estate broker and there seemed to
be great validity in a lot of the
approaches or at least the theory behind
it. And so we we ended up converting a
portion of my private hangar facility at
the Provo airport into kind of a mini
Stark Industries, kind of a a mini
advanced
in engineering laboratory for testing
and validating these claims and really
developing the the devices and the
scientific platforms to test the
theories out.
>> That's wild. uh with empiricism and we
had a world-class science advisory board
involved with that. Um long story short,
we ended up debunking it. We ended up
proving that the the core claims did not
hold weight. We could not repeat any
effects and the approach that we were
that we were taking to what uh what was
referred to as the rectification of
co-moving angular momentum.
>> Wow. um using
uh forcep processed gyroscopic
mechanisms was not working out. We
weren't getting the results and
>> but Hal and Kit were aware of this and
also interested in investigating.
>> They were monitoring the effort and they
were our trusted science adviserss or
two of our most trusted science
adviserss that had
>> Joe Fermage is the guy is the tech guy.
>> He was my partner at the time that
>> he has an interesting history too.
>> It was unfortunate. I ended up having to
terminate him
>> in that first year. Um,
>> he seemed, you know, I know things went
south with him, but he seemed
>> earnestly interested in, you know,
making progress on the phenomenon. I
believe he started this group called
Inter NASA, which was based on the
Academy of Arts and Sciences.
>> He tried to reinvent himself a number of
times. and
>> he's uh he's it's an unfortunate chapter
and he's uh he's a tragic figure.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh was very smart in his day, but
>> maybe there'll be a redemption arc. Who
knows? I figure
>> I
>> not holding your breath.
>> Never. But uh no, I I actually ended up
shutting down the whole operation and
was frankly so
disappointed
and and convinced
>> that all of the topics that were
inspiring
>> the this research um that it was all
bunk that I felt like
if people applied more critical thinking
>> and the scientific method
they'd be able to prove that there's
there are no mysteries, that there's a
natural prosaic explanation for all that
we see that we think may be unusual in
this world. And I I completely turned
skeptic for good reason. And I'd done my
homework. I thought, you know, all these
people, including these scientists, that
that actually
claimed that there was validity to these
topics, I thought they were nice people,
but probably nothing more than the
product of group think and a an adult
scientific snipe hunt. In fact, that's
what I thought when the ranch was first
brought to me. I thought, you know,
Skinwalker Ranch just looks like a a
scientific snipe hunt mixed with a with
group think where everyone basically
psyches themsself out into thinking that
there's something going on unusual that
really isn't happening.
>> And Hal and Kit have such an interesting
history as well. Hal is sort of I would
say if you had to pick like a godfather
of heterodox UFO science, it would be
Hal.
>> Yeah, he's he's incredible. He's an
incredibly
uh bright figure in physics
>> uh circles.
>> Uh both Dr. Putoff and Dr. Green I hold
in high regard uh and and those that
they surround themselves with. I mean
Dr. Gary Nolan I have great respect for.
I mean, incredible people who have put
their personal uh lives and professional
reputations on the line. And I
I'm thankful that they trusted me, that
they reached out to me with the
opportunity to meet with Mr. Bigalow.
They knew I had grown skeptical, that I
was not a believer, that I uh was was uh
in a different phase of my life. But
they knew I could be trusted.
Uh, and they knew that um I think they
they knew I would would have integrity.
They also knew that I was a collector
>> Uhhuh.
>> of artifacts
>> of cultural artifacts. I don't think
they ever really believed that I was
going to bring resources. Thank you. You
rock.
>> I don't think diet man do. [laughter]
>> Bless you.
>> Of course.
>> You're a good man. I I don't think that
uh those science advisers or even
Bigalow
>> believed that I was going to bring
>> the amount of rigor,
>> the resources,
>> robustness
>> and expertise to this property because I
I expressed my skepticism right out of
the gates
>> and um and I I was holding it all in
secret. I I had no intention of ever
going public with this. In fact, I had
great motivation to have everyone under
confidentiality agreements. I did not
want my ownership of this property and
any potential association with these
topics to compromise my day job, my
professional.
>> I think you're doing the right thing. I
also think you're doing the right thing
from the vantage point of you have all
these interests, some not so savory
likely, who are really curious about
what you're doing. And if you were doing
all of this not in public, that could
kind of be bad. And I think the the the
fact that it's fully transparent and
that you have these, you know, 24/7
Panopticon live feeds going is kind of
immunity for you in some ways.
>> Well, we have nothing to hide. And um if
if anyone tries to intercede to disrupt
the investigation, it's going to be
caught on camera like this this
mysterious oil and drilling effort
uh that descends on the I'm like, are
you kidding? you're going to really
completely ignore all of my, you know,
public filings against this effort and
not respond intelligently to them and
you're going to just ramrod through the
permits.
Um, there's going to have to be some
accountability.
>> This is wrong. It's completely wrong,
>> especially given the decades of
diligence and work that has been focused
on this effort in the public eye.
>> And if there is an intelligence within
this object, it's definitely not going
to take a liking to whatever their
ramrodding activity,
>> you would think. But they they've
they've been able to get away with it.
um who knows yeah what is really at play
and how the intelligence that we're
dealing with is operating and how they
perceive it or it perceives it.
>> Um again we're just scratching the
surface I think of understanding the
nature of what is happening. I think we
have more now than ever before. I mean,
the way that we've advanced the
investigation and the point that we're
at right now is so far beyond what I
think anyone else has been able to
accomplish.
Um, I think now we just have to remain
diligent
and brace ourselves. You mentioned Kit
Green earlier. He's a fascinating
character. For me, he's like, I would
guess somebody who knows as much about
the phenomenon as anyone who's kind of
public facing. He ran the CIA's quote
unquote weird desk for a long period of
time. Do you think he knows a lot about
the phenomenon, more than, you know,
maybe maybe a little more than meets the
eye? And as kind of an extension of that
question, has anybody showed up to the
ranch where they feel one step ahead of
you and you're you kind of just you feel
a little resonance. You see it in the
eyes and you're like, "This person knows
a whole lot and we're kind of piecing it
together, but they might have a little
bit more of a top of the pyramid view
already."
>> Absolutely.
>> Okay.
>> Yes. I have great respect for Dr. Green.
He's a good man. A good man. Um, I have
great respect for Dr. Putoff and all
those that have joined our effort over
the years. Um,
Dr. Taylor
>> has been an incredible
uh, resource and confidant. I mean, and
an unlikely advocate
>> and team member. I mean, when Dr. Taylor
flew out to the ranch with me for the
first time, he was an absolute skeptic.
I don't know if people remember that,
but he didn't think that there was any
validity to these claims. He was brought
in by the History Channel,
>> you know, at their request to challenge
all of the claims. And I was I I was
open to it. I felt like he's he's a
credentialed physicist. Um I'd seen his,
you know, some of his work publicly. And
I he was the one exception I made. I was
not interested in having any Hollywood
casting call or bringing anyone else in
other than my core team that you know I
have decades of friendship of trust
built with. I didn't want that that
circle of trust that integrity
compromise but I felt bringing in a an
outside party a credentialed physicist
to help challenge and help drive
the discussion and the investigation was
valid was a was a valid ask. And uh wow.
To see Dr. Taylor's transformation, all
you have to do is go back to season 1
and watch it all the way up to season 7,
present day. Yeah.
>> And it's a mindblowing progression. In
fact,
>> if you go back, we look like just kids.
We look like And we were
>> we have learned so much
>> in just seven years.
>> Yeah. Um, I would have never, if we went
back in a time machine and you were to
say and you were to list, you know, the
top 20 things that we've discovered that
we've documented on the ranch, I would
I'd be sitting here with my jaw on the
floor because I I didn't expect, as much
as I knew the phenomena was real and I
was an experiencer, you can't you can't
schedule this. You can't conjure it up.
You can't
you're we're not in control.
>> Yeah.
>> And you you can't predict what will
happen or what won't happen. One of the
most fascinating things that you guys
often see or sometimes see are orbs
accompanied by these unmarked black
helicopters.
And it's like almost like there's some
coordination going on between humans and
the beings or the non-human
intelligence. like they're kind of, you
know, moving in conjunction with each
other.
>> Maybe
>> it's fascinating. I mean,
>> I I know we're being monitored. Here's
here's the reality, Jesse.
>> We're being monitored,
>> right?
>> We we are our our nuclear installations
are being monitored, are being meddled
with by craft, by objects of unknown
origin. We've had numerous people go on
record,
credible people within those circles
that have gone on record. Um, we've seen
it on Skinwalker Ranch craft objects of
unknown origin that are violating the
airspace indiscriminately
>> that
um have no explanation. There's no
conventional explanation. And
>> attending these these events, you see
electromagnetic anomalies. You see
>> Yeah. you see other strange things
emerge.
>> Ross Coldart, who I know you have a
great interview with, he does all sorts
of investigating of this, you know, this
secret mountain at Bradshaw Ranch in
Sedona, Arizona.
>> I've been there.
>> Oh, you've been there. There you go. So,
you probably know more than me, but you
you see
>> we did an investigation my Beyond
Skinwalker
>> ranch series. So we we we for three
seasons had Beyond Skinwalker um that
took our investigation
to other locations across the country.
We added two investigators that were
coordinating with both Dr. Taylor and
Eric Bard and Brad Shaw Ranch.
Sedona was a key part of the
investigative effort and uh and at least
one of those episodes uh was really
exclusively focused on that effort. I
went there myself and there were some
strange things that came up on the
cameras.
>> It seems like UFOs similar to the Mesa
Skinwalker Ranch, you have transmedium
UFOs going in and out of the mountain.
It's restricted space presumably for
this university, but you never see
anybody from the university there.
Instead, you see non-escript,
you know, armed gunmen randomly walking
around. You can't walk in.
>> Camera surveillance.
>> Camera surveillance. And it's almost
like
>> the middle middle of nowhere.
>> That's right. It's almost like the
implication
of all of this is because you have a few
of these sorts of places all around the
world. You have Mount Zale uh you know
you have Mount you know that's in
Australia. You have Mount Hayes in
Alaska. You have Mount Purido in Spain
>> in Yangani, Mount Shasta in California.
And it feels like you almost have like I
alien might be the wrong term but alien
bases on Earth.
>> We'll see. [laughter]
>> We we will see.
>> And then but then but then what's
>> this is the age of disclosure. I mean
there are too many of us now funding
research efforts. We are going to bring
this forward.
>> The fact that you have helicopters
escorting some of these UFOs and UAP
into the mountains that blows my mind
because then it's like not just
>> No, it's a coordinated effort.
>> Yes. Between humans and the beings.
>> Yeah. Well, and it speaks to the the
reality of these special access
programs. There is there is a part of
the military-industrial complex that has
been involved with
these topics for a long time
>> and I think that we've seen that
manifest at Skinwalker Ranch with
respect to some of the monitoring
efforts that we have documented.
>> So it's almost like the legacy UFO
program are the beings and humans
working in coordination possibly
>> potentially.
It's strange, but it I mean it's undeni
there there too many too many data
points to just ignore or dismiss.
Am I going to make a definitive claim?
No. But I are we going to chase down
that that rabbit hole? Absolutely.
>> Yeah. Speaking about beyond Skinwalker,
tell me about Mount Wilson.
>> Interesting things down there. I mean,
it was also owned by Mr. Bigalow.
>> Mhm.
>> In tandem with his early years of owning
Skinwalker. bought at the same time.
>> Y they acquired
>> 1996
>> about the same time and we uncovered
evidence that there there was activity
uh predated there was a cover up. I mean
we're talking about fried uh computers
computer servers that were completely
fried and buried deep within under the
property. There was a rail system of
some sort that we've unearthed down
there. um clear evidence that there was
a program that there was that there
there was a dedicated program and
research
>> being conducted
>> um and a lot covered up
>> uh physically
>> and figuratively.
>> Um
we'd love to return. I I've had my hands
full, frankly, with my own property. I
don't own that property. Um but uh it's
it's more a question of bandwidth. I'd
love to uh but it's you know I'm right
now continuing to focus the majority of
my efforts on conventional business. I
leading callers in the inner mountain
region and we
we have a lot of responsibility to our
clients uh right now and I take that
seriously just as seriously as I take
this investigation which has an entirely
different trajectory and uh and cast of
characters, partners involved.
>> You've got a lot on your plate. Um
speaking of that cast of characters, you
mentioned Dr. Travis Taylor. Do you
think he has any experience with UFOs in
his past?
>> Uh
I don't know that I It'd be fun to have
Dr. Taylor here to answer that question.
Um, I will say before Skinwalker Ranch,
>> yeah,
>> before he was brought out to the ranch
to be part of this investigation, I
don't think he had any, okay,
>> experience. I, in fact, he was
>> he was a skeptic.
>> He was a vocal skeptic. Um, he
>> and then at one point he though he
briefs the UAP, he briefs the Pentagon
on stuff he finds and there's this
awkward moment where you kind of call
him out.
>> Well, here's the thing. After after that
first year or so of investigative work
at Skinwalker Ranch and Dr. Taylor
becoming an experiencer himself.
>> Yeah.
>> Unbeknownst to us, he gets called into
meetings in Washington DC and is called
in to be
>> the chief scientist of the UAP task
force. He he was
>> Oh, you didn't even know about That's
right. It comes up in the show.
>> We had no idea. We had some interesting
surprises over the last weeks with Dr.
Taylor, the former chief scientist for
the Pentagon's UAP task force. Uh it
would be great to hear [music] you shed
some light on how that has uh impacted
our investigation and and how that may
influence things. And I I've got to give
Dr. Taylor credit as much as it's
irritating that we that we weren't
informed of this and that he was he was
wearing that hat and fulfilling that
role at the same time that he was coming
back seasonally to work on our effort.
The truth is Dr. Taylor had entered into
certain national security oaths.
>> He was under confidentiality.
Uh it was a highly sensitive role and
position and to his credit he didn't
breach that not even once. We had no
idea
>> until he had authorization and it was
going to come out
um at some point. Anyways, uh when he
disclosed his role, you probably
remember I mean it there were people
Dragon was pissed.
>> Mhm. you know, my head of security was
angry because reasonably
>> it felt like betrayal. So, there were
members of my team who felt initially
like they'd been betrayed. Like, why did
how could you be wearing these hats
working on this effort? That is the
direct result of your research here at
Skinwalker Ranch. The reason why he was
called in
>> and called to that position in large
part was was really because of uh the
work at at Skinwalker. I mean that was
the catalyst
be behind it all. Um but I actually I I
have great respect for Dr. Taylor and I
understand
>> the the really difficult position that
he was placed in. I um I respect the way
he handled it. Um when it when it was
time and appropriate, he put it on the
table. He disclosed it. Um he's been
very honest about it. Um I love Dr.
Taylor. He's been a great member of the
effort and the team uh consulting
physicist that is uh
he's he's one of the brightest thinkers
on the planet when it comes to these
topics these days. But I I think he came
into it just like I did
>> as a skeptic.
>> Uh and he came out of it here the last
years as a as an experiencer and as
someone who he is hellbent on getting to
the truth. You can see it. I mean anyone
who's watching this effort, this
televised effort can see this isn't an
act. He's not hamming it up as an actor.
He's he's being captured real time in
some of his most frustrated moments
um experience experiencing phenomena
that uh defies any natural explanation
>> and he has been injured because of it.
He's sustained injuries. He had to go to
the doctor.
>> He had to go to the hospital
>> because of injuries and he's had things
happen
>> that have followed him. talk to him
about the hitchhiker effect.
>> I'd love to. Yeah,
>> he's a good man. I I'm very fortunate to
have all of these people uh that um this
that support me that support this
effort. It's uh it is a team effort and
even going back to those science
adviserss Dr. Putoff, Dr. Green, Dr.
Seagala who joined us for a period of
time. I mean Dr. Seagala was there years
before.
>> Who is Dr. Seagala? Jim Sagala. He's in
season one of the docu series, but he
was there
>> uh before there was any History Channel
effort. I was brought in as a confidant
as a member of uh Dr. Putoff's team. And
uh and that's that's one thing that
people forget is
I was funding this investigation and
keep keeping it completely secret and
confidential
>> for 4 years before being persuaded by
the History Channel to allow the
production team to come in and to make
this public, to make it part of a a true
reality docuer effort. And
I have to say to have those resources to
have some of the finest documentary
filmmakers in the world there stationed
physically at the ranch for months of
the year.
>> It's it's a blessing. And it's nice to
not have to write all the checks. It's
nice
>> to have at least a portion of the
effort. Well, I'm every bit of it goes
back into it. I don't take I haven't I
have yet to buy myself a hamburger with
the uh with the proceeds of the effort.
>> I imagine you're in the red television.
I
>> You're in the red.
>> I don't Well, I donate it. So, what I do
is I I assign I donate the proceeds that
would be due to me to either
philanthropic efforts,
>> right?
>> Um supporting everything from
scholarships. Um
>> uh my wife is very passionate about
financial aid for single mothers. We're
very involved with Utah Valley
University. Uh we're involved with uh
you know cancer research and supporting
uh efforts associated with um that
community that Dr. Lee, my dear friend,
is involved in. And uh we we love
supporting that effort and I love
pouring every penny back into the
infrastructure and the experimentation,
the the effort there. I have yet to open
a bank account for the ranch because
it's
>> that's amazing. Well, okay. So,
>> so I haven't taken anyone who claims and
they are ignorant if they claim it.
Anyone who who who calls me a grifter, I
I didn't even know the term grifter or
grifter
>> ignorantly before this effort. But all
of a sudden, when I went public and I
see all this social media, all these
people come out of the woodwork. Oh,
you're a grifter. and all of this
criticism that they, oh, you're a PT
Barnum and you're sensationalizing this
and this is all just to become, you
know, you you just want the attention
and this is all just trying to monetize
these topics and take advantage of
people. I'm like, what? Anyone who does
their due diligence on me
>> understands that that it couldn't be
further from the truth.
>> No.
>> Um I Yeah. I
>> And your your opportunity cost is so
high. I mean like that you're what you
could be making in that amount of time
on real estate is it's just like you
know how much more you know would you be
making it's a liability it's a liability
but guess what
>> Mhm.
>> it's worth it.
>> Yeah.
>> And the these frontier efforts
>> I wish more people were involved in it.
That's the one thing that shocks me.
Maybe you can help me, Jesse, understand
where are all of the other high- netw
worth, accomplished business leaders
that have [laughter]
that have resources and are curious
about these topics. Where the hell is
everyone? Cuz I feel like I'm still 10
years later on an island to a degree.
And these are these things are real and
we have the opportunity
to actually bring forth I think some of
the greatest discoveries in the history
of the world. And yet our effort is just
this rag tag privately funded effort.
One of my favorite essays is this guy
Abraham Flexner. um he wrote an essay
called the usefulness of useless things
and it became the charter for the
institute for advanced study at
Princeton and Flexner did some other
stuff I I wasn't so happy about with the
medical system but in this context it
was all super evergreen research that
was long time horizon that was seen as
sort of useless but would eventually
become useful and it was all about you
know actually the root of the word
school is the Greek scholo which means
leisure that's the double
And so just sitting and contemplating
the world and thinking about you know
reality itself begets so much progress.
If you think about quantum mechanics
which is responsible for a third of our
economy that was a bunch of dudes in
Copenhagen philosophically inquiring
into you know microscopic reality but in
a really philosophical kind of
parapotetic almost in the vein of Plato
sort of sort of way.
>> Yeah. And that is really missing. And so
that's why I started with that preamble
in my introduction of you because I I
think what you do is so needed and it's
such an externality. You know, you have
capitalists, you know, you know, getting
really rich and then all they want to do
is get richer [laughter]
>> and and you can increase the amount of
goods with new modalities, new ways of
thinking or you can make your money in
extractive ways. And I think I think
what you're doing is just so positive
some and and people really need to be
do, you know, thinking more about that.
>> I'm just shocked. I mean, you're
interviewing
personalities.
>> Mhm.
>> People all the time, but how many of
those where are all the people that are
funding like
to great expense that are funding
frontier science efforts to get to the
bottom of this in the private sector at
least? Why? Why is that? Do you know the
answer? I don't I after a decade other
than I don't know whether they're just
afraid because there's no return on
investment and at the end of the day
people care most about what their return
on investment may be with something and
this is this is not one of those
efforts. Is it too much liability
professionally? Have these topics
understandably become so taboo in
decades in the last 70 years that
successful people in the private sector
are not willing
to touch them?
>> Yeah.
>> To get involved
to to both both with their reputations
and their means because it may
compromise.
>> I I don't know. I
>> I don't know either. I should know, but
I I I am baffled by it.
>> You you you've met probably more of
these guys than me, but my my basic take
when I when I meet a lot of them is like
uh curiosity and you know,
open-mindedness doesn't necessarily
scale with net worth. And so you have a
lot of these guys and it's, you know,
they they made their money. You'd think
that highly successful, inquisitive
people that are entrepreneurial
would
>> you fulfilled a certain level of Maslo's
hierarchy and then it's like, okay,
what's going on here?
>> Yeah, what's next? You can only buy so
many Ferraris or That's right.
>> have so many yachts or estates. Let's
move the needle. Let's figure out the
nature of our world. Let's figure out
>> I know, you know, what what is really
happening. I think they're they're so
used to um
>> does this involve a clear local trade
expression, you know, and you know, they
have these filters and heruristics for
decision-m that serve them so well in
getting to a certain point. And then
when it comes to, you know, getting
getting past that point and really, you
know, looking into this sort of stuff,
which I think is so fundamental to
everything and so important,
>> I think I think it's it's it's tough to
deprogram yourself and um to take a step
back and to think in a more abstract
way. And
>> I don't know, it's tough. And then and
then there's the taboo. And then there's
the fact that you you're getting more
risk averse as you become more
successful. And you're an exception to
this, which is amazing. We we need more
of that. We need more high net worth
risktakers. But you know given all the
real scientific suppression that occurs
in areas like that. I mean the fact that
you even invested initially in
anti-gravity or gravity manipulation in
2010.
>> That's rare. Like people are scared of
things like that.
>> It was bold and we lost millions. I lost
so much time. It was emotionally
draining
uh debilitating.
Um, I there was betrayal involved. There
was disappointment on a level that I
hadn't experienced before in business or
life. Uh,
I'm glad you bring that up because it
underscores the fact that these topics
are not for the faint of heart.
>> No,
>> they're fun to speculate on. They're fun
to discuss. It's fun to go to the movies
and see Disclosure Day. Um, great. I
love the movie. I thought Steven
Spielberg did a fantastic job with it.
It's quite another
uh to to delve into it, to actually
devote time and resource to these topics
on another level, professionally,
monetarily. And it's funny with
Spielberg, I you look at him as a as a
filmmaker, what an incredible
talent.
And what a voice for asking the big
questions. Did you see what he uh
>> when he was asked recently in the
interview, you know, what what inspired
you? What motivated you to come forward
and do disclosure day and produce this
effort? And he says, "Yeah, the well,
it's the the congressional hearings and
the, you know, some of the government
acknowledgement of the reality." And I
just finished binge watching 72 episodes
of The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. Did
you see that?
>> That's incredible. No, I didn't see.
That's amazing. I'll send you the link
clip. Yeah,
>> I'll show you the link. To have
>> the great Steven Spielberging
>> watching our work and being inspired by
our work
>> in a way that helps helps motivate
>> um broader discussion
>> regarding these topics. Uh that's like
that's a pinch me. I I I got to That's
one of those moments where I I find
great reward.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's not financial. It's it's it's
validation and it's also inspirational.
It's incredible
>> to know that that we're touching on
topics and hopefully bringing forward
um discoveries
and uh and insight that people have been
starving for
for thousands of years. Um and I think
we're just getting started. Jesse, given
how much money, time, resources,
personal reputation you've spent on all
of this stuff. Does any part of you look
at some of these initiatives for
congressional oversight, Allah, the
Schumer amendment, part of which
involves possible eminent domain, you
know, taking of private materials. And
are you like, "Hey, look, I'm doing this
transparently and for the public. I'm
not Rathon that collected this, you
know, by like
>> when did we start trusting the
government?"
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> To take over our stuff. Are you guys
stupid? Right.
>> Did you just start taking stupid pills?
I I'm all for protecting whistleblowers.
And I am all I am the biggest proponent.
In fact, I show me someone else who has
put more of their professional career
and their personal financial resources
on the line.
relative to these topics.
Bring it on. Show me someone. But giving
the government cart blanch
rights to literally come in and take my
property and and for the public to think
that they know best that they're going
to be able that they're going to
disclose to the public for the public's
interest and right the reality of these
things. That's that's crazy. Yeah. And
that's the problem is as I I fully
support these bills. I fully support
these efforts more than anyone.
>> But I feel like we still have to protect
and preserve
private property rights. And we have to
preserve the right for entrepreneurs to
be able to to conduct this effort
without being thwarted, without being
shut down. Will you commit publicly to
some form of disclosure with whatever
you find underneath?
>> Hell yeah. I demonstrated it for seven
going on eight years.
>> Yeah. It'd be it'd be kind of weird if
like you went silent one day,
>> Jesse. I demonstrated 24/7. You can you
can get on our insider site and you can
pull up the the live feed of the
cameras. I don't know. There's nothing
more I can do uh to demonstrate my
commitment to transparency and that
we're all in this together. What I'd
like to see is more support. Now, I'm
not I'm not asking for any financial
support, but more support and and
frankly cooperative efforts to help
bring forward the truth. I
celebrate the whistleblowers. I
celebrate those who have the courage to
come forward. What I'm hoping they'll be
able to do is come forward with data and
evidence.
>> The problem is people coming forward
with their experiences
>> or knowledge, especially secondhand
knowledge, secondhand accounts,
>> it's not helpful.
>> Do you believe we have saucers and
hangers
in the US?
>> It wouldn't surprise me. I've seen them
myself in the air. I mean,
>> I know they I know they exist.
is the government in possession
of these things
uh wouldn't surprise me. But on the
other hand, whatever we're observing
is so far advanced.
I think to some degree it's arrogant to
think that we would have the ability to
bring it down,
>> right?
>> Um but let's say I I think I I
>> it's a good question. Yeah,
>> I I
I absolutely
um
am open-minded to the fact that the
there are some factions and I don't know
there may be privately held channels now
that that hold this material. Yeah,
there's a there are rumors that there's
actually like a Mormon connection with
the UFO legacy program and that BYU
could be a feeder. You know, the they
say the CIA is Mormons, Marines, and
MBAs. And um so there might, you know,
there's Dougway proving grounds
obviously on the other side of Utah.
>> We Utah test and training range. I mean,
and that's why I was a skeptic at the
very beginning is I felt like there
there's going to be a natural
explanation for all of this. It's all
conventional. Mhm.
>> We have the Utah test and training range
which is west of Hill Air Force Base.
It's the largest inland test and
training range in the United States. Um
you have the base, you have, you know,
Doug Way. Um and we we have great
resource. I mean we have within one hour
we have some really worldclass
institutions. UVU who has a degreed
cyber security program, BYU, the
University of Utah, Utah State with
Space Dynamics Lab that has worked on
the Mars, you know, rover program and
countless others.
I thought there's enough evidence
there's enough going on here that
there's there's nothing truly unusual.
>> Well, you know, in the in the cafeteria
at Dougway Proving Grounds, there's a
little gray alien being.
>> I didn't know that.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I
now nothing surprises me. I the
phenomena is real
>> without question and we have data
>> demonstrating the reality of it.
>> Now, understanding the the origin and
the agenda is is our goal.
>> Speaking of it being real, there are
still people who've uh served officially
in Pentagon positions studying this
stuff. uh namely the former head of the
all domain anomalies resolution office
Sean Kirkpatrick who denies the reality
of any of this stuff. He sort of
professionally gaslights the public on
it. He was this probably the sole source
for this sloppily written Wall Street
Journal article that uh poorly explained
away a bunch of UFO incidents around
Malmstrom nuclear base in 1967 calling
it the product of a a non-uclear EMP
which hadn't even been invented at the
time. There were all sorts of errors in
this piece. He also said that before
being head of Arrow, he was not privy to
any information or briefings on this
subject. And you had a very interesting
response for him.
>> Yeah. He claimed that before 2022 he had
no interest in these topics,
that he'd never attended a briefing on
Skinwalker Ranch,
that he'd never met me
when, interestingly, he was right across
from me, seated just like you are across
from me for two and a half hours in a
confidential briefing
in 2018. 18 in April 2018
specifically and exclusively focused on
reviewing and briefing
people in the government relative to the
reality of the ongoing investigation and
findings at Skinwalker Ranch.
I don't know how someone in his position
sits across from me for two and a half
hours watching a a very sophisticated
keynote presentation with video and
other assets
and then
years later
denies ever meeting me, denies ever
having any interest in these topics,
ever attending a briefing.
Um,
and I wasn't even going to give voice to
this. I wasn't even going to to respond
to the criticism
until
I was being made out to be the liar
by
Steven Greenreet at the New York Post.
He was essentially calling my my
account of doing this briefing, this
confidential briefing, years before any
History Channel docue series.
And uh it's unfortunate, but I had to I
came with the receipts.
>> Yeah. You you posted a photo.
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, I've posted on Twitter,
[clears throat]
LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook.
>> Yeah. I did a drop and showed clearly
[laughter]
that Dr. Kirkpatrick was right across
from me, that he was in attendance at
this briefing. And what it what it
demonstrates is that there's
unfortunately a disinformation campaign
and a very active effort to discredit
individuals like me and these very
topics. Why? I don't know. I don't know
where it's coming from. I don't have any
bone to pick. I I certainly I warned
Green Street with the New York Post. I
warned him. I said, "What? Why are you
doing this? Why are you Do you want to
embarrass Dr. Kirkpatrick? Why are you
continuing down this line of
questioning?" I don't know why, but I
know it's real. I know we've I know that
he was involved.
>> Yeah. Pure pure bold-faced lie.
>> Yeah. I I don't know who his puppet
masters are. I you know, but I I would
not be surprised if they're somehow
related to the [gasps] the covert
military surveillance of our effort at
Skinwalker Ranch and beyond.
>> Yeah, that
>> it it really does underscore
>> the effort to discredit these topics.
>> And I mean that was that was Blue, you
know, that was Blue Book 2.0
>> or Condan Report 2.0 0 essentially to
discredit to basically tell the entire
public in Congress, oh, there's nothing
to see here. Move along to somehow Jedi
mind trick everyone into thinking that
we're crazy, that there's no validity to
these topics. And it's that's insanity
and it's dishonest.
>> It's dishonest. It's just
>> it's uh in this day and age, I'm
shocked.
>> Was he open-minded back then?
>> Absolutely. It was a great exchange.
>> Yeah. I like I said, I have no bone to
pick. There was no there was nothing
adversarial and nothing negative. In
fact, I appreciated.
>> So, it's like he's playing a role now.
It's like he's he's sort of serving
orders.
>> I don't know. I don't know. I don't I I
I don't know. Um I I I don't preser I
don't presume to understand the
motivation behind it. Uh, all I can do
is
give voice and evidence to the reality
of what
happened.
>> Very strange. Well, also very strange,
we mentioned the Shermans who owned the
ranch before Bigalow.
>> Sure.
>> This werewolf showing up. You called it
a direwolf, which I found fascinating.
You guys then find a direwolf. What is
it? Like a jawbone.
>> It's a whole carcass. A whole carcass.
decomposing carcass.
>> Yeah, Jesse.
>> And direwolves don't are there on Time
magazine, you have colossal biosciences
bringing back a direwolf. Direwolves are
are from 125,000 BC. And so you found a
a a direwolf carcass on the ranch.
>> So interestingly,
>> did it time travel there?
>> Well, there are portions of Skinwalker
Ranch that had never been subjected to
any scientific investigation or close
study. One of those regions was what we
call dry gulch creek. There is this
there is this waterway that cuts through
the property that you know that that
warranted some investigation. There had
been accounts in fact going back to the
Shermans accounts of orbs of light
traveling that direction or and and even
these giant wolves wolf-like creatures
that proceeded to head out toward that
part of the ranch and disappeared. Well,
we we didn't know that we'd find
anything other than, you know, at least
be able to map that region of the
property. And upon investigating
Dry Gulch Creek right there on camera,
the team happens upon this carcass of
this decomposing large wolflike
creature. And thank goodness, I mean, it
stunk. It was what what doesn't
translate
>> through the television is how disgusting
it was.
>> There were maggots everywhere,
flies. It it rire the guys. I mean, it
[laughter]
they weren't really excited to uh to to
to cut its jaw off to to actually bag
pieces of that that uh that animal, but
they did. Thank goodness. They had the
presence of mind to take samples while
it was falling apart, decomposing there
right in the the Dry Gulch Creek and
proceeded to study it. In fact, they we
sent it immediately off to um biologist
Ben Woodruff, who has been our our
expert biologist and Mr. Woodruff
shockingly
finds that the direct match to that
jawbone, the direct match
is a direwolf species that's long
extinct.
>> That is wild. That's wild.
>> He puts it to the test. I mean, we show
on the series. I mean, you you see over
there in the region.
>> No, no wolves in there.
>> No, they're anomalies. If there is there
you look at you pull up all of the the
public data and
it's it's not only uncommon. It's just
it just isn't no one's seen anything
like this.
>> Do they sequence the DNA?
>> Yes. So we sent the DNA off to Colossal
and it comes back the majority of it
they can't identify.
>> Uhhuh.
>> It's a mystery.
part parts of the DNA, no surprise, are
associated with the greywolf species,
but majority of it is inconclusive. So,
you take the physical evidence, you take
the DNA, and then you look back on the
accounts.
>> Wait, was this before or after Colossal
resuscitated the direwolf?
>> They haven't.
>> Oh, well, no, excuse me. They have. They
had the two pups.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, this is before.
>> Interesting. So, do you think that this
is somehow connected with their
resuscitation?
>> Absolutely. Zero. No, there's absolutely
no correlation or connection. It's just
they just happen to be the leading
genetics test and they
>> they they're trusted. I'm I'm an angel
investor.
>> Oh, no. Oh, that's done really well.
>> Uh so I I'm one of the early angels with
>> with uh that group you're familiar with
that invested. Um and uh uh and the CEO
is a dear friend. I I Ben Lamb is one of
the the great visionaries out there. But
>> you look at how much this
evidence
helps support
the accounts that were easily dismissed
by so many people. people people in the
past that questioned the Shermans and
the account of this large wolf
>> like creature in there they're like well
number one there no wolves in
>> in Utah no large wolflike species there
no packs
>> number two it just defies any
explanation I mean it just it seems so
fantastical
>> yet we find actual physical evidence
through our investigation and it's uh
it's deepened the mystery that much more
anyone who's watched those episodes has
got to be just
just as as baffled as we are.
>> I don't know how you explain that. That
is that's so wild.
>> You don't and the biology on that ranch.
I mean, maybe there are portals to other
to to to other places and times that
allow transit because we don't we don't
know where where they go, where they've
come from. Well, the Sherman story is
something you would see Steven Greenreet
be like, "Of course you shot a shotgun
at close range at the wolf that was
oversized and no one ever saw it again
or whatever."
>> Well, he thought they were all full of
crap.
>> And then decades later, you find a
direwolf carcass right there.
>> And the jaw is a direct match. The teeth
are a direct match to an extinct species
that has no place. There's there's
there's no population out there. there's
nothing. And then you have a a a
sophisticated DNA test conducted that
shows that it's inconclusive. It's a
mystery. I mean, the majority of the
material you can't assign to anything.
So,
>> go figure.
>> You've brought
>> I thought there would be a hundred
million people tune in.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You
>> instead of a couple million, but
[laughter]
>> it's not bad. Um, you know, but yeah,
should be Super Bowl.
>> I am shocked. I I don't I don't know why
people aren't
>> more captivated by what we are
presenting transparently to the public.
>> It's really wild. It is re It is really
when you think about all of the things.
They're so wild.
>> This isn't staged. The these aren't
reenactments like on ancient aliens or
or some other clip show where they're
just simply asking why and this
happened. You know, experts say that
this happened or you know it has been
reported. No, we're showing
>> what's happening live
>> the public what is playing out live
>> without manipulation.
>> It's so and it's almost like
>> the intelligence that you're studying.
It's like this game of cat and mouse and
it's toying with you
>> and you have, you know, Eric Bard.
>> Yeah, I guess the sensors in the main,
you know, uh, kind of what did we call
HQ or command center
>> um, you know, were malfunctioning. The
lights were turning on and off. And then
at one point he gets super frustrated
and he goes, "If you're out there, just
show yourself to me." And then you you
see the screens kind of freeze up and
then it goes I living.
>> Yeah.
>> So strange.
>> He was he was registering what ended up
being thousands of intrusion events
captured on the video surveillance of
the command center
in the command center. And at the height
of frustration,
Eric Bard
vocally says, "If you have something to
tell me, tell me. If you have something
to show me, show me." And in that
moment,
the screen morphs.
And thank goodness
Bard has the presence of mind to screen
capture
to just to to to literally save
what happened on that screen.
And then it goes back and is restored.
And upon examination, you see that that
screen something had manipulated that
image to pull
letters together completely out of
sequence. No explanation. Pull them
together in a millisecond
to form
the words I living. And then I said,
"All right, if you got something you
want to show me, show me. If you got
something you want to tell me, tell me.
Then this is the immediate first
screenshot.
>> Oh god.
>> If that isn't evidence that that we're
dealing with communication, that we're
dealing with intelligence and valition.
I don't [sighs]
I don't know what else.
>> Yeah. What are what are the statistical
odds that happens by by chance? It's one
in a trillion. and the technology to
enable that to happen
>> to trigger that simultaneously. It's
>> Yeah, it's not it's not around.
>> And these data points just keep adding
up. Jesse, it's just one
>> I have a data point there. My editor
when he was making our original
Skinwalker Ranch vlog when we came four
years ago,
his screen froze up and it never did
that and it got all staticky and weird
and we put that in our original video.
It's so crazy. So he's not, you know,
especially at the time now, you know,
he's more into these topics because
works with me, but at the time, you
know, he wasn't super into any of this
stuff. It seems like there are a number
of quote unquote sacred objects out in
the world that intelligently communicate
with anyone around them. I don't know if
you're familiar with the Baltic Sea
anomaly. Do you know about this?
>> Yeah. This is in the Baltic Sea between
Sweden and Finland. It's smack dab in
the middle. I actually went with Dennis
Asp.
He's a treasure hunter.
>> And the weirdest things happen when
you're around this object. You have all
sorts of GPS failures, electromagnetic
anomalies, you know, the the whole
electricity on the entire boat just goes
out. the uh you know remote uh
controlled underwater drone, you know,
immediately goes out. It's really wild.
>> That sounds familiar.
>> It's the same thing. And so, and then
this is really weird. And I didn't even
put this in my Baltic Sea anomaly
documentary
>> because I thought it would discredit me.
It's so weird, but I'll just say it here
because it's in the context. It's it
there's a pattern here.
>> I have a friend who built an app called
Sync Text. s y n ctxt. It's basically a
random event generator. So ones and
zeros tied to something, you know,
provably random in quantum mechanics or
thought of as random like, you know,
radioactive isotope decay or double slit
experiment, whatever.
>> And but but in this case, instead of
being tied to one or zero, it's tied to
I think probably tokens or sentences. So
it's a random like sentence generator,
>> right? So you can get all sorts of
messages and often they happen to be
kind of synchronistic beyond chance but
that's that's kind of the the whole
thing right
>> so uh we are out here monitoring this
this object and you know again like like
skinwalker it's like you know strange
things are happening the power went out
on the boat but it you know nothing like
insane right cuz it's like this is just
one time we're out there but a ton of
strange things have happened around the
object lightning has struck struck the
object. Smoke has been seen coming out.
NATO ships are circling it. Super
strange. So, this is over over years,
just like you guys have years of data.
And the the um the drone goes out all of
a sudden the power on it as we're kind
of surveying the thing. Like the thing
doesn't want to be surveyed. And nobody
has reception. Not only does nobody have
reception, I think the transponder was
off on the ship. So there were no like
local comms being made. We were out at
sea and
>> I get a text on my phone and you can ask
anybody there with me about this
happening and they'll all corroborate
this story
>> and it's a text on sync text and it says
how long will you be down here for?
>> Oh wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh
>> yeah. That's awesome.
>> It's awesome. That's
>> And that's similar
>> similar
>> again you're talking about the same
patterns the same type of phenomena.
>> Yes.
>> Around a place an object.
>> Yes. It's the same it's the same thing.
And it's so so it just felt too relevant
to not say. And uh
>> I love it. Thank you for sharing.
>> Of course. And no. Oh, and it looks
>> I'm pretty sure it's timestamped uh you
know as far as the the the text.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh so there and if not
>> So you've got all the metadata.
>> I've got all the metadata and then I was
there then you know and I have all these
witnesses. So like I you know
>> see that that is so important.
Everything we have even the earliest UFO
images
>> that were captured
>> above Skinwalker Ranch under my
stewardship.
>> I have the metadata. I have all of the
metadata and the other
uh evidence regarding the air traffic
during the day, you know, witness
uh testimony, all of the, you know, what
you would what you would want to have
access to
>> from a data uh driven approach.
>> Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible.
I love that. It's such an important data
set that you know hopefully opensource
scientists you know civilian scientists
can continue to come to the ranch.
>> Absolutely.
>> And continue to sort of investigate this
stuff. Some of the most interesting
investigations I've seen you do involve
bringing humans to to the ranch who are
doing kind of ancient tradition you know
practices. You you brought in a rabbi
who did like a cobalistic prayer. Rabbi
Ariel Zadok's experiment where he
claimed that that you know he had a
rabbitical chant that would open portals
>> to other realms and we thought why not
let's we invite experts from various
spiritual traditions
>> you brought Native American shaman
>> exactly and I thought absolutely I
welcome Rabbi Zodok this will be an
interesting exercise do I expect
anything to come of it no But I think it
will be it will be interesting and it
will it will be great to have his
perspective. Well, we have this Fleer
camera, this, you know, $35,000 fleer
camera system set up to monitor the
environment during the course of his
chant,
his experiment. And of course, what
plays out is all in the public domain.
It's all it's all been made public. The
temperature drops dramatically
around Homestead, too. And right in the
doorway, right in the entry of Homestead
2, it goes to freezing black, freezing
cold temperatures. So Ariel starts his
ceremony and while [music] he's doing
the chant, I happen to notice that
there's some kind of anomaly in front of
the doorway of Homestead [music] 2.
Eric, come here a minute. Look at the
difference in the fleer imagery now.
It's completely changed.
>> I've not seen this do this before.
>> They stop the exercise. The men walk
over to see if there is this an
equipment malfunction or is it really is
is can we really feel
physically feel a change in the
environment that would that would match
up? And of course they all witness what
they described as walking into a deep
freeze. the environment in seconds in
the middle of July in Utah
changed in the midst of that that that
ceremony
and uh and we even caught an object
moving about probably conducting some
type of surveillance activity that came
that appeared. Um what was I think just
as interesting is after
the rabbi left we decided you know to
repeat the experiment. We had the audio
so we played the audio back
and we had the reverse happen. [snorts]
temperature elevated and in that
exercise
an orb of light appeared in the
homestead
and the men ended up seeing some object
through their night vision goggles that
they ended up tracing and following
through the field
>> behind Homestead 2. Uh
that whole exercise
>> uh was incredible confirmation
>> that what what we are dealing with uh is
is not only real but there is there is a
spiritual element to this.
>> Uh
why did Rabbi Zodox chant his prayer,
open this this portal or change the
environment?
uh what would cause that?
>> Uh it's it's a fascinating part of what
happens on the ranch and only at
Skinwalker Ranch. Um and we've brought
back Native American shaman.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh with other strange things that have
occurred. In fact, on the current
season, we've done that uh with some
interesting results. We even just
conducted an a brain experiment back
back at Homestead 2 involving a uh a
scientist that is an expert in was it
EEG and in really monitoring brain
function and whoa the results were
shocking.
>> I think he walked into the homestead and
the EEG shut down and then he walked out
and it was
>> back online and it was super strange.
And um Chris Bledsoe as well, super
experiencer who, you know, has had all
sorts of fascinating experiences with
the the lady, but also UFOs showing up
at his house in Fateville, North
Carolina. He went to Skinwalker Ranch as
well.
>> He did. We didn't end up airing um that
content. Um
>> it was really kind of inconclusive. I a
nice guy.
>> Yeah. um really enjoyed my interaction
>> with Chris
>> uh and his team, but um but we're pretty
particular about what we
uh what we reveal, what we present. And
I I think it's important to note that
95% of what we film and document doesn't
end up
>> right
>> making it on the series. And I'm sure
you sometimes you think you detect a
thing and then you are able to
prosaically explain it and
>> well and and we show that and and
sometimes it's difficult to know whether
it's appropriate to air
you know certain experiments or certain
things not because we want to hide
anything or that we want to to um omit
anything. I in fact I I'm completely the
opposite but I want to I want to reveal
everything but we only have uh a certain
time and that's one of the challenges
associated with the framework of of a
documentary
series is you've you have to you have to
carefully edit thousands of hours of
video and audio content. You can
probably empathize.
>> Oh yeah.
>> It's a freaking nightmare.
>> Yeah. um for my partners, my team. It's
a miracle that we have what we do have
because it's just amassing all of that
material and then and then, you know,
being able to u to organize it such that
uh that we can present it months later.
It's uh it's a huge effort. Do you feel
like there are people that are kind just
like Skinwalker Ranch is a kind of hot
spot of this stuff geographically? Do
you feel like there are people that the
phenomenon team seems to kind of show up
more around?
>> Absolutely. Generationally?
>> M Yeah, I would agree with that.
>> Absolutely.
>> Is that does that run at all in your
family or
>> No. Okay.
>> Absolutely not.
>> Okay.
>> No, we have no evidence of anything like
that. Do you do you have any theories,
you know, having done this for is this
now 10 years that you've you've owned
this? It's amazing.
>> So, have do you have any theories as to
what because obviously you have all this
data. You have an incredible amount of
data.
>> And then are there any theories as to
what's happening and what this means
about reality itself?
>> Well,
we know there's something above the
ranch.
>> We've caught it from multiple camera
points. We've
We've documented it. We've documented an
effect that there is something within
the space above the ranch that
defies rockets that manipulates drones
that
um that is very real. And we've
documented that there's that there are
anomalies below the ranch. As above so
below. There's there's something there
whether it is an interstellar highway
stargate gateway to other dimensions,
other worlds.
Um
the the combined evidence and the
anomalies speak to to to the reality of
that.
>> It's it's no longer just a question or
or just theory. I think we're now
dealing with hard data. Um, I think the
the darker elements, the the
malevolence,
uh, the the consciousness related
aspects of this, uh, warrant some very
serious and humble investigation and and
that's going to be a a key part of my
effort uh, moving forward. Um, where are
these UFOs coming from?
Why why do unidentified aerial phenomena
seem to appear when we are
when we are testing the environment?
When we're poking the hornets's nest, as
Dr. Taylor would say. What are they
defending something? Are they hiding
something? Or are they being revealed as
observers?
>> I We'll see. It's real. Mhm.
>> Uh and it's it's um
it's really sobering to look back on the
just the the documentary record of what
we've experienced.
>> It seems like there are patterns as far
as other geographical hotspots,
>> uh sacred Native American lands and
nuclear sites. And I know, you know,
Skinwalker isn't a nuclear site per se,
but it's
>> in proximity to some
>> I don't think so.
>> Past testing. No.
>> No. There that was that was a stretch by
people to say that some
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Some of the testing in Nevada
could have that the winds could have
blown material up here and that's that
somehow that's created some of the
elevated microwave and radio.
>> Okay. So, that's a stretch.
>> It's Yeah. Well, not only a stretch,
it's just making it up.
>> It's uh it's just as silly as swamp gas.
>> Well, I would say there's a third thing
which is mineralrich areas seem to
attract this.
>> There is and I think that may be a key
>> a key part of what is why
>> you know the basin is a mysterious
place.
>> It's not just us. You look back on you
know Junior Hicks
>> who was the the historian. He was with
us for that first season or two. We end
up he passed away sadly um when we were
entering our second season of filming
the docue series, but he'd been with us
within weeks of me acquiring the
property. He became a fast friend, a
confidant,
>> worked closely with Thomas Winterton and
Jim Morse,
>> who we refer to him as Uncle Jim. And
Junior Hicks had detailed files going
back to 1950
documenting
hundreds
of UFO sightings
and [clears throat]
uh bizarre incidents
>> in that area. Um and it's uh it's found
in the book The Utah UFO Display.
>> Um he came on as a consultant,
gave testimony to the reality of what
had been going on there long before
Bigalow or Sherman. That's what people
don't understand. Our investigation has
unearthed the fact that there are
accounts that go back to the 1930s with
the early homesteaders of bizarre cattle
mutilation and other strange activity on
this property. We're talking
almost a hundred years of of documented
incidents, history,
accounts,
even accounts of people coming on the
ranch during the 60s, the 70s, and the
80s and having encounters and these are
credible people.
>> Do you think
>> law enforcement even? So,
>> wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you think it's a coincidence that uh
the Buffalo soldiers were Freemasons?
Obviously, you have that inscription,
you know, um as as as above so below. Uh
do you think that that is is is somehow
part and parcel of what's going on? I
think it's all part of
>> the overall very intriguing history
>> and it's a key element potentially in
why this property and our archaeologist
Chris Roberts has now documented going
back over 8,000 years of artifacts of
evidence of of habitation on this
property
>> not as a main dwelling site but as a
ceremonial
>> site. ite as a as a site of interest of
gathering a gathering place. Uh
that is rare,
very very rare to find artifacts
that uh that date back that far that
show that for whatever reason the
ancients were drawn to this site.
>> Uh I think we could learn a lot.
>> Do you want
>> by studying that? Do you want to be able
to not only see but
scientifically study a UFO?
>> Absolutely. Maybe we will.
>> Maybe we will. Do you think that Bigalow
has done that?
>> No.
>> Okay.
Are you ever afraid for your life given
that you're
>> Yes.
>> And how do you how do you sort of do you
just put the blinders on and ignore it?
Absolutely.
>> Yeah. I think that's
>> I'm not going to I'm going to try to not
be motivated or governed by fear.
>> I just have to keep focus.
>> Does studying all of this stuff reaffirm
your belief in God or does it make you
kind of more existentially anxious and
unsure of God or what? How does it kind
of change your relationship with God and
your faith?
I believe what we are seeing is
confirmation that we live in a divinely
constructed intelligently designed
reality.
I think there is a higher power. I think
that I think we we have data to show
that that that is the case. I find
the fact that we're not alone in the
universe
that uh
that reality is much more complex
than people would lead us to believe in
certain positions
uh is evidence that uh that there is
more than meets the eye. I found that my
faith has been strengthened. I mean, I
bought the ranch as not only a a
scientific skeptic, someone very
skeptical of any paranormal or
extraordinary claims, but I also was
questioning faith at that time. I I had
deep deep concerns about organized
religion, even my own faith tradition.
And I've
honestly come full circle. I my faith is
stronger today
than ever. And
is the
is it driven is my investigation driven
by trying to prove the existence of God
or my faith tradition? Absolutely not.
Never has been, never will. But it is an
interesting coincidence that at the same
time I'm having these uh profound
experiences
uh that actually
shift me from being a skeptic to an
experiencer. I'm also coming face to
face with my own faith traditions
and um and actually looking at them
through a different lens. Looking at I I
I would tell you I to be really
transparent.
Uh I I love my my faith, my my uh
Latter-day Saint faith more now and
appreciate it more now than ever before.
I find that Mormonism
and the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints is is the only
religion that really full-on
speaks about and teaches that we are not
alone in the universe
>> and is has a more of a cosmic worldview.
Um I think that's a fun coincidence to a
degree relative to this investigation
and it's, you know, it's validating. Is
it a driving force? Absolutely not. It
just happens to be.
>> Yeah.
>> And I I feel more more humbled right now
because I I feel like I know less than
I've ever known in my life. I feel like
the further we go into our research, the
further I I go in life, the less I know.
>> Yeah. The more you know, the less you
know.
>> Uh but at the same time, I find more
inspiration
and I find more peace and validation in
those things that I was taught from a
very young age. and and we're all in
this together. That's one thing that is
that is also um an inspiring part of
this whole effort to bring a group of
people from different faith traditions.
Some of them are completely they're
agnostic or they have I have some
friends that are uh vocal atheists but
and and they're great people and people
that I deeply love and respect and they
bring perspective that has been helpful
and we all find common ground together
through this investigation and that's
the thing they these questions that have
been that have been asked since the
beginning of time that we are trying to
answer and I believe answering on
skinwalker ranch are unifying.
>> I think they show that you know the
human family should be working together.
>> Absolutely. Well, that was a a beautiful
bookend sort of uh you know speech to
what was an amazing interview. I I
appreciate you coming on so much,
Brandon. And um yeah, I think,
>> you know, in many ways bringing it back
with, you know, I think it, you know,
Mormonism would probably be the least
ontologically shocked religion if we get
disclosure.
>> It is.
>> And um and I do think it would be a
poetic culmination of all your
disperate, you know, interests if we
were to um find something very concrete
under that messa, which I I believe
there is something very very concrete. I
mean, clearly there is because of what's
coming out.
>> Well, there's something unusual and it
it defies any conventional explanation.
So, let's let's bring it on. And also,
whatever we're whatever we are
documenting above the mesa,
>> yeah,
>> in the skies,
why why are we seeing UFOs and other
activity? I want to have those answers
and I want to document where they're
coming from and why.
>> I I love it. Well, I I hope you get the
answers. And it's it's such a
fascinating thing to watch in public.
This is an unprecedented time where if
there is an object under that messa,
it's like this is the Super Bowl. And
it's like and and and I you know it's
watching uh all of the characters all of
your amazing investigators grapple with
some of the you know psychological stuff
but the scientific stuff as well and and
having to introspect about their
orientation towards the whole subject
and the phenomenon as they continue to
move forward is really a kind of a
microcosm of you know any sort of
meaning seeker's life. you know, as you
as you move towards uh sort of a a big T
truth, um you're having to constantly
question yourself and your intentions,
and it's it's amazing to watch live on
the Secrets of Skin,
>> see it all play out. I I think there are
two statements from one of my favorite
shows of all time that are relevant
coming from the XFiles. Trust no one,
the truth is out there.
And both can be applied in in this realm
of inquiry and this investigation.
>> Exactly. And hey, it's not a coincidence
that uh Chris Carter had a um a security
clearance. So [laughter]
>> indeed.
>> There you go. Well, Brandon, thank you
so much for this. I appreciate it. Was
an honor and this is going to be a hell
of an episode. Yeah.
>> Good to be with you. Onward.
>> Onward. Cool.
[music]
>> [music]
[music]
>> Heat. Heat.