Take me back to Langley Air Force Base
2012. What exactly did you see?
>> Outside smoking a cigarette on the phone
bsing and I see a light pop up near the
NASA hanger and the light starts to fly
to me across the base. And as it flies
to me, a triangle manifests around it.
>> How fast did it move? between 100 ft off
the ground approximately to at minimum
30,000 commercial jet elevation 2 to 3
seconds.
>> My name is Dylan Portland, a former 1N1
geospatial intelligence specialist for
the United States Air Force.
>> So you experience this and then what
happens next?
>> So I was working at BAE and uh somebody
who worked for the government, they
heard about me talking about the
triangle and they thought I was right
into the program because they were.
That's when I came into knowledge about
a very specific program.
>> I am sure there are crafts that were not
made by humanity at this current time
and place when we recovered them.
>> Have you ever talked to anybody who
seems to have hinted that humans aren't
in charge?
>> The ICIG did it.
>> Well, the intelligence community
inspector general told you that humans
are not in charge.
>> They extremely hinted at it. Yes.
>> Holy
Whistleblowers going to the ICIG, if
they disclose CIA secrets in Department
of Energy secrets, they're not allowed
to be prosecuted for espionage, which is
a death penalty.
>> How could you ever, you know, say that
somebody's committing treason for
drawing a hieroglyphic while
simultaneously saying that the whole UFO
program is fake?
>> A nonhuman intelligence pyramid power
source.
>> I've been read into so much stuff, I
don't even know what I was read into.
They said I have PTSD for a job that
they're claiming I never did. I get
hooked onto this polygraph machine and
there's a computer where they're
flashing images and air horns. I have to
count backwards from 100 by 7. And if I
went 100 93 86 instead of saying 7978,
the air horn would go off and I would
have to restart and they would restart
the flashing images. What dude?
Ignition sequence.
How is this possible?
Nothing too unusual about that.
Their existence cannot longer be denied.
>> Dylan Borland.
>> Sir,
>> it's an honor and a long time coming to
have you here. Uh, you testified before
Congress in September of 2025
and I remember tuning in from abroad. I
was with my buddy Chris Ramsay actually
in Spain and I felt like I don't ever
want to go to one of these congressional
hearings again. I think it's a total dog
and pony show. I honestly thought
nothing interesting was coming down the
pike and then I remember listening and
actually watching on C-SPAN your
testimony. My name is Dylan Borland, a
former 1N1 geospatial intelligence
specialist for the United States Air
Force. During the summer of 2012, my
team was on standby for weather and I
returned to my barracks on base and at
approximately 0130, I saw an
approximately 100 ft equilateral
triangle take off from near the NASA
hanger on the base
>> and being like, this is wild. This guy
seems extremely earnest and authentic.
Not only has he had uh you know
firsthand sighting, but he seems to know
a lot more about UFO crash retrieval and
reverse engineering programs than meets
the eye. And you experienced all sorts
of reprisals, administrative terrorism.
And so I'm that story is really wild.
The onlogical truth below it is wild,
too. And I'm really excited to to have
you here. First off, what are you
wearing?
>> Uh a wonderful shirt I got on eBay. I
try to tell my friends and loved ones. I
I love puzzles. So, uh I love video
games and puzzles. And uh you know,
after ODNI committed a felony against
the whistleblowers, I decided to uh go
and pick up a couple t-shirts.
>> What does ODNI stand for? For
>> Office of Director of National
Intelligence, uh Director's Initi
Director's Initiative Group, the DIG,
which Senate had a hearing with James
Urman III. Um, and it was supposed to be
under Tulsi to uh get into what the
government did and has been hiding all
these years.
>> And I believe the ODNI started in 2006
and it was meant to oversee all the
intel agencies. And so, you know, CIA,
Office of Naval Intelligence, all of
that fits within the purview of ODNI,
which was supposed to sort of organize
them all, oversee them.
>> Um, so little known thing, uh, ODNI is
supposed to be the chief boss. CIA uh
doesn't really like to play ball with
them. And even James Man who testified
under Senate recently about everything
they did to whistleblowers for AHI COVID
and uh UFOs. Um
CIA does their own thing legally and by
the law technically ODNI is above them
but uh here we are alas. So yeah, you
are correct though. uh 9/11, George
Bush, the DHS act. Um, all that was
created to uh get that under control and
the CIA continues to do what they do.
>> And I want to be careful here because I
don't want to get you into trouble. So,
I'll say that uh somebody from the ODNI
said to Jeremy Corbel
the program name of possibly some UFO
reverse engineering program was called
if you remove your
>> I love puzzles. I love puzzles. I uh I
>> So, I'm not saying that that anything
came from you, but that
>> that was that was their statement to
him. I was told by an ODNI agent
that Dylan
testified
to ICIG,
the police of the intelligence agencies,
that there is a UFO program, and it's
called Rubik's Cube.
That's what he said. That's what that's
what I heard from the ODNI,
which they shouldn't be calling me and
telling me what was described in a
skiff.
>> Am I correct about that? That's what you
>> for Jeremy and George. Uh I cannot
confirm or deny anything. What I will
say is Jeremy and George are
sweethearts. I love them. They are
incredible friends. I consider them
family. They are wellinformed. If Jeremy
and George as legal reporters in the
United States doing their legal job to
inform the public are saying that our
country committed crimes disclosing
whistleblower testimony to a journalist,
take it for what it's worth. They did
it.
>> Yeah. I mean that's a serious accusation
to claim that the you know most
important at least you know uh
structurally intelligent a intelligence
agency is doing that you know is a is a
very big and bold
>> 100% and then you get into a real fun
stuff which is why we're here today uh
for everybody covering this up. How are
you going to argue national security
when you're disclo disclosing
hypothetical classified information to
journalists which would be classified
under national security. You can't claim
we got to hide this while simultaneously
disclosing classified to journalists.
Doesn't make sense in my opinion.
>> No, it makes no sense. A as does it not
make sense to uh accuse whistleblowers
who you weren't even on the program
directly uh of treason for essentially
letting stuff out due to literally a
personal experience where you know you
happen to be on Langley Air Force Base,
but you experienced something and then
people assumed you were part of the
program so they told you a bunch of
stuff. So you can't go after, you know,
somebody like yourself. Well, and and
now we get into these crazy situations.
I mean, for me, Jesse, it goes back to
what I've been adamant about, and shout
out to Dave and everybody else. You
know, we talked about it. Dave is
busting his butt.
>> Dave
>> grud and his arms are tied behind his
back and everybody is just trying to get
this done. Um,
you know, when we talk about retaliation
and bumping into programs and you talk
into wooaps, um,
>> and wooap is a is a wave
>> special access program. You hide them
within special access programs. It's how
you find that's how you hide money.
>> So like hypothetically I may be doing
special operations for drones
hypothetically.
And uh within there are people who are
read in and you have certain SOPs and
TTPs but more importantly you have
capabilities that are not allowed to be
known to anybody outside of the people
read in. Um you can be working next to
somebody who is read in and doing that
job and
somebody may be working recoveries right
next to you and you don't know it. M
>> and that might be how more or less
somebody may be
believed to be read in.
>> Yeah. Let's back up cuz I want to give I
want to set the set the table for people
who maybe are less familiar with your
story. Uh cuz we just, you know, went
off the deep end there. Um are you are
where are you from originally?
>> I was born in Washington DC. Um my dad
uh and my mom met in Pittsburgh, PA.
uh got married, had me, we moved to DC,
my dad actually worked for the US
government. He did all the museums. So,
he actually, if you ever go to DC, if
you see the uh Constitution, he helped
to set that up. So, if you go in there,
you see the Constitution. He lived in
Palm Springs. Uh we did a lot of Native
American museums. He lived up in uh
Baker City, Oregon, and did the Oregon
Trail Museum up there. So, uh, been
around the block, but, uh, more or less
you could say I'm from Pittsburgh.
>> Yep. And Pittsburgh has an interesting
relationship with UFOs historically,
right?
>> Yeah, we talked about this last night,
my man. Uh, and that was a delicious
burger, by the way.
>> There you go. Best in Austin.
>> You know, uh, this is out there and I've
been trying to edge people into it.
Bettis research lab up in Pittsburgh and
they were the first people to develop
nuclear power for the Navy and that was
in the 50s and you get into Kexsburg and
all the UFO sightings in the western PA
region. Um at one point in time they
were tasked to develop the nuclear
satellites for space and the contract
conveniently ended but as of right now
that is still exists and uh they're
still doing it. Yeah.
>> Interesting. Yeah. Cexsburg is around
there and I believe what do they call
it? The triangle.
>> So we talked about this too. So it's
called the like I 81 corridor. So in
Unsolved Mysteries, shout out to Michael
Shurmer. You just did that interview.
>> Um Michael Shurmer's been on Unsolved
Mysteries and uh between Norfolk Langley
Air Force Base west towards Winchester.
I forget what that city is down there,
but north on I 81 all the way to
Harrisburg, PA
>> and then back down through DC back down
towards Pax River. Uh it's called the
I81 corridor and they had historically
UFO flaps. I hate to call them that for
years, decades. Um if you go in in New
for New Fork, uh you can actually see
all of it. And then this goes back to
the first CIA director and him being
involved in all this. It's it's pretty
well known historically.
>> Yeah. Which CIA director are you
thinking of? Rosco Hilling Coder or
>> I think so. Yeah.
>> It was the very first one. He was a Navy
admiral and he retired with the CIA. He
was the first CIA director, Navy Admiral
and he was on the board of directors for
New Fork. Super I'm terrible with
>> No. Yeah. That that was Hillen Coder cuz
he was he was actually um a classmate of
Donald Kho who formed Night and then
they joined together and Hill and Coder
it's so interesting because I think he
was frustrated at not getting the proper
information about Roswell. So you think
of like the first CI CIA director and I
think he's even you know supposedly one
of the Majestic 12 or whatever who was
briefed on this and then you know under
under Truman but then supposedly he was
actually really complaining to Army
counter intel saying actually I don't
know as much as I should about these
topics.
It it is. And then you get into the 1947
National Security Act with creating the
Air Force, the CIA, the National
Security Council, which you and I
discussed, which is how much was
Majestic 12 tied into National Security
Council. Yeah, man. I mean, I think the
irony is is you, Jeremy, George, Gerb,
everybody is unpacking this and the
history is there and Dave set a
foundation publicly and all of us are
coming out and we're supporting what has
been done for decades
>> and, you know, I am of the opinion that
90 95 95% of it's out there. It's just
you guys piece putting it together.
>> Yeah, that No, that feels right. It
feels like uh it's just hidden in plain
sight and it's all open source and it's
just you know can you piece it together
and it feels like a lot of people are
piecing it together but it's on these
sort of it's this rag tag team of
vigilante like YouTubers and stuff and
so it's it's not taken as seriously as
you know somebody can do an extremely d
you know deep dive on you know the
legacy program it structure like UAP
Gerb and so he'll go extremely deep and
he'll give you the structures he'll talk
about how federal ally funded research
and development centers interact with,
you know, special access programs, how
they have subject subject matter experts
that oversee these like carveouts, the
SAPs of these, you know, prime
contractors and stuff. and you know
he'll he'll he'll do a three-hour video
and he'll do many of these videos and
then you have Neil deGrasse Tyson who's
this like you know high priest of
science and he'll just say one thing
like well after you know 50 years of
whistleblowers coming out you know he'll
be like after the last 10 years it
really seems like maybe I should start
to take this seriously and the whole
consensus just shifts but nobody nobody
pays attention to people like UAP Gerb
it doesn't make sense to me but
>> I yeah I mean I Sha Gerb love him man
He's he's awesome. He's he is kneedeep
into Osent and uh he knows his stuff.
>> Oh yeah.
>> You know, you talk about Tyson. It's
funny that uh here we are and you know
what he was like three years ago and now
here we are. I mean Dr. Phil, you know.
>> Yeah, Dr. Phil.
>> Unironically like you brought up C. We
were talking about Kexburg. We talked
about yesterday. Right now we're one day
past the Kexsburg anniversary for the
party up there.
>> Yeah. Uh things are coming together and
uh like we talked about I think the next
10 years are going to be real
interesting.
>> I think so. I think so too and we'll get
into that. But um so what were you doing
in the government initially?
>> Uh so I went to college for my undergrad
in criminal justice polyad of IUP. Uh I
wanted to be an military officer like I
told Jeremy weaponized interview same
old stuff. I did Army National Guard
ROC. did it. I want to go active duty
and I always want to be Air Force.
>> Why' you want to do that?
>> It was in me, man. I remember being a
little kid with my sister. Uh
for those of you who know Pittsburgh,
especially at the South Hills, there's a
place called Casty Village.
>> I'm a kind of dox myself, but uh it's a
little strip mall in the South Hills,
and they have an Air Force recruiter
station.
And I remember that while I was there,
um, they had one of the old school like
1950s posters and it was a young kid,
uh, with his sister and they had a dog
and it was at the Air Force recruiter
station. Marines, all of it. And I
remember seeing that poster. I was like,
I really want to serve the Air Force.
Uh, one of my grandfathers is retired or
not retired. He served in Army counter
intel for Panama. The other one served
in the Navy. My dad's a Navy vet. Um,
>> what did your dad do in the Navy?
>> He actually was uh on aircraft carriers
landing and taking off jets.
>> Whoa.
>> And it messed him up.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> How so?
>> Uh, accidents and then just working 18
20 hours at a time, you know, that that
it takes a toll on you.
>> Do you think he ever experienced
anything with UFOs?
>> No. I talked with him about it. I mean,
he's the same one I was telling you
about who did all the museums and stuff
and he ended up with National Archives
and him and I talked about it. He uh
when I testified, that's when I think
things clicked for him with like, "Oh,
damn." Like, "What the hell did my son
get into?"
>> Yeah.
>> But no, he never talked about it. It was
mainly like typical military trauma and
BS. So, yeah.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. But he was on a nuclear aircraft
carrier landing and taking off jets out
there in the middle of nowhere in the
oceans and Yeah. So you wanted to be in
the Air Force and then where did you end
up because I think you ended up in a
very interesting position that is kind
of unique to our modern warfare
paradigm. I would agree. Um I ended up
so I took my FOQT. I want to be an
officer. I could have got an officer
position. Uh the Marines gave me one but
they made me wait 3 years and I was
homeless. Um, so you know, my ASFAB, I
want to say it was like a 96 or 97,
which not to brag, like that was
actually lower. Like I knew high school
kids that a that But uh
because I my college degree and I got in
my 90s, they were like, "Hey, you have
any job you want." I took the uh
linguist test. I forget was a DAB.
That's it. So anyway, I was like, "Look,
I know I want to work for the
government. I want to help people. I
want to protect people." And I
everything I did was intel. And then
number one was OSI. I wanted to be an
FBI agent. Like I wanted to be a pilot
and an FBI agent. That is what I wanted
from a kid ever since I saw that poster
you brought up and what we were talking
about. Um so everything I did was intel
and uh I go through all the vision
tests, everything. you go through maps
and uh they're like, "Hey, uh you can
leave in 3 weeks, not be homeless, and
we'll give you imagery as an enlisted
Air Force
airmen." So, I was like, "Sounds great.
Let's go." And then I got in there and I
didn't realize that a one-on-one imagery
analyst was ISR. So, basically, I got
thrown into the drone program. So manned
and unmanned aerial vehicles,
satellites, imagery, you know, we got
into the drone program touches on so
much human sigant all of it. Uh got
thrown into that world with special
forces, special operations.
>> What years was this?
>> So I enlisted in 2010. I was medically
discharged in 2013. Um 2010 to 2013.
>> So this was when drone strikes really
ramped up.
>> Oh, it was crazy. Yeah. I remember some
of my buddies I still talk to today
remember it under Bush then we
transformed into Obama and I can't get
into details but I was there for the
tail end for the other drone program. Um
yeah and notoriously people know that
drone operators who kill enemy
combatants actually suffer from a lot of
PTSD sometimes more. Yes.
>> Because they're a aware of the kind of
dissociation. they're aware that um
all of this is being turned into some
sort of video game and so it messes with
them more and I can imagine being an
image analyst so your role was to say
yes that is the correct target you know
you can strike move forward that's a
really tough position to be in too
>> yeah I I you know I talk with a lot of
my imagery buddies um I need to be
careful with how we get into this but uh
I don't think anybody leaves that world
without having it be a part of them,
especially on the more
problematic side. You get what I'm
saying?
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
you know, I, uh, I I told this story on
weaponized. Um, at one point in time,
the drone program was worse for suicide
than anybody else in the military.
There's actually something crazy about
this is so when I left the Air Force a
couple my friends were at
the locations where we do this. I want
to be real careful cuz
>> of course
>> like if you remember my weaponized
interview when we're talking about
redacted
>> every single special forces unit I
probably worked with Mars so par rescue
redacted seals which is redacted.
>> Everything that was redacted in there is
unit names. uh public unit names like
I'll say it now, Devrew. Everybody knows
who Devrew is. I redacted that because I
don't want to put the seals in that
position straight up and that's fine
now. It is what it is.
>> Um but when I left the Air Force, um
my buddies at the locations, there are
specific locations where this is done.
They were calling me up and they're
like, "Yo, we had a suicide standown."
And the irony is we were still working
while we had the other units stand down
for drone issues and we're still working
but there was a military standown for
it. I'm not making fun of them, but it's
such a crazy world because it is
non-stop. Go, go, go, go, go. And, you
know, we support special forces, so
we're supporting everyone in special
forces, so there is no time down. So,
it's like everybody just kind of takes a
breather, but you're always having
somebody go at it. And it's it's wild,
man. I feel like it's like a a double
whammy as far as PTSD goes because you
have the kind of the the separation
dissociation and maybe even like
survivors guilt like special forces.
They're like in there.
>> They're they obviously have skin in the
game. They could easily get taken out.
>> And so it's like you're you have this
like what seems like this drudgery of
this 9 to5
but you have this asymmetric advantage
and you can just take out targets on
command. And I can only imagine that
that and but you're also in the
subordinate position where you're just
you're serving your country. You're
doing your job. You signed up as a
patriotic American to, you know, defend
the country and to take out,
>> you know, I'm sure in certain cases very
bad people, you know, terrorists and
stuff. But in other cases, I'm sure
there were edge cases that you didn't
agree with and you can't do anything
about that. No. And that's shitty.
>> Yeah. It sucks, man. I think all of us
who come out world have that feeling.
You know, I'll tell you a story. Um,
well, when I was doing that, my dad came
with to visit. He's a Navy vet and he
was actually stationed at Norfolk and he
came with to visit me and we were
hanging out and uh some stuff went down
um and he wanted Starbucks. I haven't
drink coffee so I was like, "Dude, I'll
go chill with you." And I remember some
really wicked stuff went down that
weekend. And I I'll never forget I just
got off of a 4-day Panama shift and I'm
with my dad down there at Langley
Hampton Roads and I'm in line. He's
grabbing his coffee and I'm sitting
there thinking in line while I was
getting a coffee everything I know that
I just did for the last 4 days and it's
like
what the hell is this? It It's a weird
thing, man. Because you have to you have
to be able it's almost like
disassociation. You have to be able to
immediately trigger it to turn it on and
go and then once you walk out the door,
turn it off because it will mess your
life up.
>> I can Yeah, you have to, I'm sure, keep
it super compartmentalized.
>> And like we talked about yesterday,
going back to whistleblowers and
experiencers,
you know, I don't know how Dave does. I
don't know how any of us do it. We're
just surviving. Like you
>> trying to figure out a way to turn this
off knowing that the reality of this is
happening.
>> Yeah.
>> And then this goes back to our org. like
how do you do this? And that's what
we're all trying to figure out.
>> Well, when I look at uh the eyes of
David Grush, the eyes of Jake Barber,
you know, I look you in the eyes, too.
You you you have this like I've seen
some Look, you do. No, seriously.
Like unless there's some, you know,
troop of actor training or whatever
inside the government where they're
like, you know, teaching people Marlon
Brando levels of of, you know, Oscar
winning, you know, then then then like
all these guys are coming out and they
look like they've seen some really
traumatic Uh uh sticking with the,
you know, your role as an image analyst
for the drone operation.
I'm sure there were times too when you
know there was collateral damage and
there were casualties incurred
>> I
>> where you're just taking orders.
>> I will be very careful there. I think
it's well documented for all those years
that I may or may not have done this for
a living how many people were
collateral damage and I think about it
every day and it breaks my heart.
>> Well, I'm sorry man. And I mean, you
just so you know, you were you were
serving the country and you were you
were doing your job and so you know
that's it's not your fault. Like
>> I appreciate Jesse and I love you man.
Big hugs.
>> Love you too, man. I love you too. Yeah.
I wish we weren't in this spaceship but
here we are.
>> Trippy, man.
>> It is trippy. It is trippy. We're in the
SS Enterprise. Yeah. Um Okay. So that
was your role. Uh take me back to
Langley Air Force Base 2012. What
exactly did you see?
>> Yeah, man. I mean, uh, whenever this was
weaponized, shout out Jeremy and George,
you know, uh, we were on, so same old
Um,
on Panama schedule, you're on call.
You're doing 12-hour shift work. uh when
weather was down overseas. Can't get
into specifics, but if we can't fly
planes and craft or grab satellite
imagery, you know, you send people home
on split shift and uh you're on call.
So, I live on base and I always said
like, "Look, man, I don't have a family.
I'm living by myself on barracks. Y'all
go home to your kids. At least you got a
couple hours with them." So, 1:00 in the
morning rolls around. Um, drive across a
base from Langley, pass a NASA hanger,
pass a runway, go back to my barracks. I
change, uh, usually smoke cigarettes,
maybe grab a beer, chill out, play some
Borderlands or some Grand Theft Auto,
whatever. Go out to the gazebo and I'm
smoking a cigarette. I'm on the phone
with my buddy. Uh, he was a federal
officer, 1811 position, FYI. I mean,
behind the scenes, this goes back years.
Everybody knows all of these things in
the world where I testify to, but uh
outside smoking a cigarette on the phone
BSN and I see a light pop up near the
NASA hanger. Um you know, I think we'll
fill in some stuff on the weaponized
interview. Um a lot of the redacted
stuff, like I said, was protecting
individual units, locations, and things
I know that were tested. So, I'll say
it. Uh the first redaction was about
weather balloons. I have seen weather
balloons be tested from that NASA
hanger. Um, I believe in national
security. I love the nation. I believe
in protecting the nation and protecting
the people who serve and die for it.
So, I see this light pop up from the
NASA hanger. 1:30 2 a.m., you know,
around there. And, uh, literally I
thought it was a weather balloon. And,
uh, I see it pop up. Smoking a cigarette
on the phone like, "Oh, that's wild.
Clearly at this time of night, in the
middle of the week, you're testing
something fun. Don't think anything of
it. Begin walking up. So, at night, like
you guys know me at this point. Most
people know me. I I I have a thing where
I walk, I pace, I'm like, I got to be
doing something. I've always been that
way. So, uh, I see this, I start walking
up the street to the main street to go
walk around the track. And I had an old
MP3 player. It had like 12 songs on it.
In fact, one of the NAS songs was on
there, my man. Um, so, uh, I'm walking
up there. I walk up to the main street
up towards the gym and, uh, the Jag
office. And as I'm walking up, the light
that I see popped up from the NASA
hanger and the light starts to fly to me
across the base. And as it flies to me,
a triangle manifests around it. Um, you
know, to be clear, I am very, very, very
adamant about what are the facts. I
can't tell you if it was active
camouflage. I cannot tell you if it
manifested around it. I can't tell you
if the light created some crazy
wormhole. I can't tell. What I know is
it was a white light that became a
triangle, flew to me. Um, there's some
other stuff that I don't want to get
into that is well known in the IC that
it did while it happened.
Um, but it flew to me and stopped 100 ft
in front of me, 100 ft above me, and
most beautiful piece of technology I've
ever seen. Static electricity.
Uh, smelled like a lightning storm. Shot
off my cell phone redot, which is an
indicator of things within the ISR world
that you know what's happening.
>> Crazy.
>> And so it's 100t above you. Describe the
color, the dimensions of this craft. So
uh approximately in my official AROM MFR
that was classified I described it
between 100 and 150 foot equilateral
triangle there were lights on each
corner. There was a center light two to
three times larger in the center. Uh
it's black metallic flake paint. I'm
looking at it and I can see the edges.
Um so was flat on the bottom two to
three times center light black metallic
flake paint. I can feel the static
electricity. The phone's turned off and
so like the edges are 90 degrees that
come up and then I never saw the top of
it. So like from the bottom to the
corners it was 90°.
Who knows what the top of it looked like
but uh the big one was the outside
pulsated move like a lava lamp. It had
like this goldish transparent flow
around it where the whole craft was
I don't want to call it moving, but it
was moving. It was like take a lava
lamp, put it on black metallic flake
paint,
and have the lava lamp flow around it.
>> Um, and it was just sitting there
pulsate like I I could see the intensity
on this gold on this craft pulsating as
it flowed around the craft. was there
for like two, three minutes or so. Uh,
and then all of a sudden the center
light flashed. That thing shot up. As I
said, my opinion is commercial jet level
and then got up there. It looked like a
satellite. Sat there for a minute. I
finally reset my phone and it just went
right over the Atlantic Ocean.
>> You said you reset your phone. What
happened to your phone? So my I was on
the phone with my buddy uh 1811 position
for the government which is a federal
officer licensed badge carrying gun
carrying federal officer. I don't want
to give his information out. Um but the
phone got hot. My phone call ended. Uh
battery was drained. I was trying to
reset it while I'm look I want to get a
picture of it. I was like dude no one's
going to believe this. Um,
and once it got up to elevation, so I
was trying to reset it while I was I
wanted the picture and uh I finally
reset the phone. Once it got up to
elevation, it's it it looked like a
star. I remember I was trying to take a
picture of it and this is 2012. I think
I had what, like a Samsung 12 or a
Samsung 11 or something.
>> So it turned your phone off.
>> Uh, no. So it froze it. I couldn't even
turn the phone off while I was within
that distance of me. The phone was so
hot I couldn't reset it.
>> Like the phone couldn't reset. It was
completely shut down.
>> Did it say due to heat or something?
>> There was a heat warning on it. Yeah,
there was. But like, you know, you hit
the power button to like volume down or
whatever it is.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It wouldn't turn off.
>> Were you feeling hot? Was your body
>> No, I just had a static electricity at
that time.
>> Once it got up to elevation, once the
center light flashed, I could smell that
rainstorm. And then once it got up to
elevation and I smelled it, it kind of
calmed down looking at sitting up there
and then that's when the phone cooled
down. I was able to reset it.
>> How fast did it move? And obviously
you're estimating, but how fast did it
go from 100 ft above you to commercial
air level?
>> I have testified to this under oath
within seconds between 100 ft off the
ground approximately to at minimum
30,000 commercial jet elevation 2 to 3
seconds. What would that make it as far
as you know how fast it you know
>> I know go from ground level to 30,000 ft
in 2 seconds.
>> It's pretty Yeah. Can you have you have
you done the calculation?
>> No, I have not. Well, I mean if you're
if you're going from ground level of
30,000 ft in 2 seconds at 15,000 ft per
second from stationary to
>> Y.
>> So let's call it two. If you do three
that's 10,000 ft per second.
>> Okay.
>> So
>> yeah.
>> Seconds, man. seconds. That thing
flashed and that thing was gone.
>> It's so wild.
>> It's beautiful, man.
>> When you saw the light turn into the
triangle, did it go and did the light
just like kind of instantly turn into
the triangle or was the light slowly
approaching and you realized that you
saw it as a light because it had this
sort of, you know, plasma sheath gold
lava thing around it? This is where
again this is why I'm trying to make
sense. When Jeremy said Dylan's looking
for answers in the interview, that is
what I'm looking for. I got a lot of
questions that I know TRS on. When it
flew to me, the best way to describe it
is that light flew to me and the white
light was the center light and the
triangle
manifested or decloaked around it. So
for me it was like that plasma sheath. I
watched
I watched a triangle form around the
light as a center light.
>> Why do you think it flew straight to
you?
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Why do you think it flew straight to
you?
>> One of my many questions I want answers
to. H I remember when I was interviewing
uh David Grush, he was allowed to talk
about this even though it wasn't cleared
through Doppser because it was like a
informal friend testimony or something,
but he mentioned a huge 300 ft triangle
that somebody uh saw on their way to
work.
>> He was going to work at a certain
facility uh in the morning, you know,
not drunk, not high, and a 300 ft
triangular craft hovered over his car.
um uh for a couple minutes and all the
zenith upper facing decks of his car
were all got hit with ionizing radiation
ultraviolet cuz the paint became milky
>> and uh so is this like how common is
this? Is this
>> I don't know all the time.
>> If if if I'm right in what you're
talking about, I believe that guy was at
Norfolk Virginia.
>> That might be the one at Norfolk, which
interestingly is within a couple years
of when I saw mine at
>> Langley. Interesting. interesting for
you.
>> Fascinating. Okay. And um so the buddy
that you were on the phone with, I'm
assuming he's anonymous.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Okay. Would he back you up privately and
say, "Yeah, I was on the phone with
Dylan. The phone shut off. We spoke
about it right after he told me about
this experience."
>> I'm I'm sure he would, but again, like
this gets into issues with doctors and
bosses. How many people police officers,
how many people really want to throw
themselves to the wolves of social
media, get harassed and all, you know?
>> I'm just saying, do you like, do you
still have a good relationship with him?
And to you, he's like, yeah, I remember
that time in 2012.
>> Hey, man, I'm 39. I mean, you know, you
get older. I got friends I haven't
talked to in 5 years, we call up and
we're laughing. I'm sure if I call him,
I was like, "Yo, man, you remember
this?" He'd be like, "Yeah, I remember."
I was like, "Off the record, if you want
to say like, "Yeah, you were on the
phone with me." He'd be like, "Yeah,
I'll do it."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.
What do you think this lavalike sort of
undulating light was around the craft?
>> So thankfully you asked that and thank
god I don't officially know. Uh I think
that it is some way to ionize the
atmosphere around a craft with a power
source and it's electromagnetic probably
nuclear but again this is hypothetical.
Um I think that what that is is charging
the craft positive negatives to ionize
the atmosphere around it to control uh
speed, travel, direction. That's my
opinion. What's so fascinating is you
know um I think the most vital uh
version of anti-gravity that you know
the US looked into involves negative and
positive electrodes being charged with
me meggaolt range electricity which
would ionize the air around it. A lot of
these experiments which were being
conducted by Thomas Towns and Brown
ionize the air around it and so you end
up with these sort of charged particles
you know basically plasma and then they
recombine with air or O2 you get 03 you
know three oxygen molecules and that's
what this it's literally what you
described it's this thunderstorm effect.
I uh I'm glad you said it because again
you get into the nitty-gritty. I love
you and Gerb and Jeremy and George and
everybody studying this. What you just
said is more than I know based off of my
own testimony. I believe you. I mean, it
makes sense to me. Again, I can only
understand what I know and what I've
witnessed and what I've seen and what
I've testified to. Everything you said
makes perfect sense to me in my limited
understanding from witnessing it and
studying it. So, that makes sense.
>> And you said the object didn't fly
towards a base. It flew over the ocean.
And then did it descend down?
>> Never saw it. It looked like a
satellite. So once I saw it come from
the hanger, the white light, it flew to
me. The triangle manif manifested,
decloded, insert, however it came to be.
The light became the triangle. Got up to
elevation, stopped, looked like a
satellite, and then it went due east out
over the ocean. And I lost it as it
slowly moved east out over the Atlantic.
>> Do you think it came out of the NASA
hanger? This craft?
>> I don't know. I don't, but it could
have. I mean, that NASA hanger is huge.
Um, it's a big NASA hanger, and being
where I live and working with uh
C17s, you know, I know a big hanger when
I see it, but I don't know.
>> Do you think NASA houses exotic reverse
engineered UFOs?
>> Well, here's a funny one for you. This
is a good question, and this is public
knowledge, and I'm sure when this comes,
people are going to go dig into this. If
you go to Langley Air Force Base and you
look at NASA and you look at Google, uh
you can start clicking all the buildings
that are tagged. And interestingly
enough, a lot of those buildings have
people that work there that are tagging
like puzzles and hieroglyphs and rocks
and formations.
But again, maybe it's just people that
work there are trolling, but uh you can
look it up on your phone right now.
>> They are tagging puzzles and
hieroglyphs. It's like it's like
labyrinths and they're showing pictures
of pyramids and they're showing pictures
of hieroglyphs and rock formations
>> on Google Earth.
>> Yeah, you can pull it up right now.
>> Why would they be doing that?
>> Hell if I know, dude. But they did it
cuz I was laughing when all this stuff
went down. I start screenshotting it.
>> This connects with again this is OD and
I talking to Jeremy Corbell, a
journalist apparently. I'm not even
saying, you know, this is a me hearing
this in in your interview with him. And
um he said that Rubik's Cube is this
program name that freaks them out. So
puzzles, that's where my mind goes. And
then he also said that you drew pictures
for the ODNI and one of those pictures
was a hieroglyph.
So you're saying that this area where
you saw the UFO is being tagged with all
the UFO related knowledge that you seem
to have. What what I am saying is is
that if you go into Google Earth as of
right now while we talk about this,
there are people on Google Earth where
if you pull it up or not Google Earth,
>> but you're saying that they work there.
>> Oh, yeah. They work there. If you pull
up Google Maps, you can see it. You can
go and track them down on LinkedIn. See,
here's the problem.
>> So, it's not random trollers. It's
literally people who work there are
tagging people
>> where you saw the UFO with
>> people at least on that section of the
base are tagging like random labyrinths
and random buildings and they're showing
pictures of ancient archaeology and
random stuff and you can go and pull up
their record on LinkedIn and they
clearly work there and there's just a
random picture of a labyrinth connected
to some random
hanger at the NASA facility at Langley.
Yeah,
>> that is so crazy. And Langley, you know,
people think of Langley as synonymous
with CIA.
>> Well, this is Langley, Virginia.
>> Yeah. Well, Langley Air Force Base.
>> So, where is Langley Air Force Base with
respect to
>> right next to Norfolk?
>> Okay.
>> Like right across the bridge, a tunnel
at Norfolk.
>> So, is it is that in Langley, Virginia
or
>> uh Lang? Well, see, here's the problem
is when people talk Langley, they think
CIA, Langley Air Force Base is Langley,
Virginia as well. Uh, Hampton Roads,
Norfolk, that whole area.
>> Um,
however, what's interesting is you bring
up the NASA angle. The reason why NASA
exists there is because back when we had
the trip to the moon, that is where we
were developing that technology to go to
the moon. NASA's development to get up
into space and everything pressurization
was done at Langley Air Force Base,
Virginia.
>> Wow.
>> I still can't get over We're gonna look
this up right after this. So, there are
employees there who are tagging puzzles,
labyrinths, it's ancient archaeology.
>> It It's pictures and it's just random
weird stuff of like pyramids,
labyrinths, puzzles, and it's just like,
"Oh, click this facility." But you know
how when you look at Google Maps, you'll
see like posts
>> people had just random pictures of this
random stuff there and you go and look
them up on LinkedIn, it's like
>> wait the you're you're a PhD in like
electrical engineering. Why are you
tagging this and posting this on this
facility at NASA Langley?
>> Well, that seems like if if that's the
level of operational security, you know,
involved in the program, they shouldn't
be going after you. you weren't even
like, you know, on the program. Like,
that's insane. That's not
>> to be fair, Jesse, we talked about this,
too. I mean, what what joke is this when
ODNI is threatening whistleblowers and
falsifying evidence for treason and
espionage and then committing a felony
and leaking into journalists? Like, what
are we talking about anymore?
>> That's so crazy. I mean, the other
really interesting thing about all of
this is you have this guy Jim Latsky,
who's this, you know, longtime DIA
rocket scientist who's in Skinwalkers at
the Pentagon. He was clearly involved in
OAP, this program between 2007 and 2012
and on weaponized with Jeremy Corbell
and George Knapp. He's saying that he
breached the hull of a UFO craft.
>> You you're you're telling us you told us
because you were allowed to tell us that
our government has a UFO in its
possession and has been able to access
the inside of it, right?
>> Yes. which is wild that he's saying this
and he's publishing this in his book and
he's saying I can only say that I can't
say more. Um but what's really
interesting is if you read his book uh
new insights and I think his other book
as well he talks about UFOs as puzzles
as like almost consciousness puzzles.
It's as if the byproduct is you know
either ancillary technology that we we
even have the framework to be able to
create. So maybe you end up with fiber
optics, but the original use for the
thing was like way too complicated for
us to ever even, you know, surmise what
it was used for. But it's almost like
it's it's meant to with us a little
bit. Like we look at the we look at this
saucer in a hanger and we're like, we
have no idea how this could ever be
built. And that explains these debates,
you know, with like Eric Weinstein, Eric
Davis, where Eric Davis is like, we
don't have physicists on this stuff.
>> There wasn't a real physicist there.
Nobody at the PhD level who is either an
applied physicist or an or a theoretical
physicist
>> because the physics frameworks we have
are so you know they fall so short. I
you know we talked about this last night
too. I think I think Latsky
is probably my favorite old-timer. Hate
to say it. And uh I've never talked to
Jim. I would love to. Um I send him
peace and love. You know I know he's
popped up recently again. Davis did his
interview.
Latsky is an absory
said it happened. It happened. And
hypothetically, I may or may not know
some of the stuff he said is true. Um,
but like we talked about, one of the
things you got to remember is I know for
a fact, and most of us do know, which is
our government will recruit people who
are competent to understand the
information and train them to do the job
in the way they want them to. Back to
physics. And we tal you know where I'm
going with this. Um but yeah, you're
absolutely right. You know,
>> but I think you're making a point which
is um there wouldn't be physicists on
the program, you might want electrical
engineers or just generally high IQ
competent people because you can retrain
them.
>> Yes.
>> With you know,
>> and and then hypothetically if you
understand the physics then it doesn't
matter what the physics is and now it
comes down to a matter of rever reverse
engineering.
>> Yes. And then I struggle with I don't
think that they understand the physics.
That would be my guess. But I don't I'm
completely open. You and I talked about
I don't know. I'm completely open to it.
>> I'm completely open to it.
>> Yeah. In uh 2023, Langley Air Force Base
uh basically saw drone incursions for 17
days.
>> New details are now emerging about
mysterious drone activity over US
military airspace. Air Force officials
confirmed several unmanned drones flew
over Langley Air Force Base in Virginia
last December. The Pentagon is still not
saying what officials think these things
really are.
>> Drone incursions.
>> Yeah, drone incursion. Basically, UFOs
17 consecutive nights a swarm of
unidentified drones infiltrated the
restricted airspace over the base. So,
our one of our most sensitive air air
spaces and uh you know it was a dozen or
more drones were involved in the
incursions. It was more than two weeks.
The official response, the Pentagon
publicly confirmed the incursions in
October of 2024 and the spokeswoman
said, "We have no idea what this is. We
haven't identified any of these things
and we have no defense against them."
>> There there is so much of that story
because I know what they were targeting.
Again, I was working for Ditra at that
point. you know, people forget.
>> So, Ditra is the defense threat
>> reduction agency. It's all WMDs. So,
counter WMD, nuclear biological um
chemical um I'm an imagery guy.
>> And do you think Ditra ties in with the
UFO legacy?
>> Oh, of course. That goes all the way
back to DOE. I mean, again, if people go
through their history,
things become clear, but again, where I
was at within Ditro doesn't have doesn't
really have anything to do with it, you
know.
Um,
yeah, that whole drone incursion thing,
there's a lot more to it. There's a lot
of imagery there. There's a lot of fun
things there that I know exist. Um
but if you think about I don't want to
say think everybody who knows knows uh
those drones were really targeting
primarily NASA and then a very specific
location on Langley Air Force Base
because you got to remember the NASA
side of Langley is separate from Langley
Air Force Base. There are two separate
gates and there's a fence that guards it
and there's patrols. But uh
>> were they um targeting cuz I believe
um
uh there were there were stealth bombers
there with possible
>> well hypo well here we go here. This is
going to be fun one to think about. So
the F22 is a stealth aircraft.
>> Yes.
>> They were targeting the stealth
aircraft.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> And they were targeting NASA hangers.
>> And then to me,
the payload would be the more
interesting thing if you're a UFO. And
this is me saying this. This is me
saying I'm I'm speculating this because
I have data of around, you know, again,
167 plus whistleblowers who are at
nuclear sites all over the country
coming from this guy Robert Hastings.
And even if you look at Nimmits, it's
like a little known secret that tactical
nukes are nukes are almost always on
board, you know, these these aircraft
carriers. So nuclear is just this
ubiquitous connection with UFOs. UFOs
always show up around nuclear.
>> They do.
>> Yeah,
>> they do.
>> Okay. All right. Well, we can move on
cuz I don't get you in trouble. Um, you
did you did say uh you know some
interesting stuff that I know is there
and uh on Twitter somebody said we need
4K videos of UFO and we need NHI bodies.
>> Okay.
>> And then you said
>> I know that exists.
>> You said I know it exists.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> I know directly.
>> I know directly that right now in our
government there is cell phone video
ending the conversation about the
triangles once and for for all. And that
is cell phone video. That's not even
imagery. Cell phone video within 100
feet of it. I know it for a fact.
>> And you know that we have high-res
imagery of UF
>> 100%. Because again, I know what I had
and I know was redacted from me because
I wasn't read into the saps. As for the
bodies, I want to be I'm glad you
brought this up. I want to be clear.
This is where this gets into fun. Um
I am sure these things exist. And during
my whistleblower through Arrow in the IG
and Congress,
like I said in weapon eyes, when people
ask a question, when you understand why
they're asking a question after you make
a statement, but uh
I believe Dave, I trust Dave. I know
what I know. I know what I've been told.
I know what I testified to. And I know
what came back as was confirmed. I know
what Arrow and hypothetically the IG
have told me directly in skiffs. It
absolutely exists. There's no doubt in
my mind.
None at all.
>> And you're sure we have craft and
hangers all over the country?
>> I don't know about all over the country.
I'm sure we have craft. I'm sure they
exist in a hanger somewhere or
underground wherever they're at. But we
have craft. You you know that they're
not just these aerial objects that are
ephemeral that we don't understand. You
know that we have been studying them on
the ground in isolated conditions.
>> I am sure of it. But again, this goes
back again this gets into the fun stuff
we were talking about hypothesis. You
know, if
>> but it's not that's not really a hypo
you're extremely
>> I am sure there are crafts that were not
made by humanity at this current time
and place when we recovered them. That
is no doubt. Um,
where they come from, no idea. You know,
this is one of the things that people
always attack this subject. They want to
lump me in with quote unquote aliens and
little grays and all that. That's not
the truth. I've never said
extraterrestrials exist. I've never said
we have proof of extraterrestrials,
>> but nonhuman.
>> We have we have craft that were not made
by humanity at the time we recovered
them.
>> Major difference. M
>> we recovered things that weren't were
not made by us.
>> Could be future or
>> future past. Uh we talked about the
hypothesis of a human soul and us going
to another planet and we're watching
ourselves
>> and these are more advanced than
>> clearly 22s and F35s and Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Fascinating. Yeah. Um okay. So so wild.
So you experience this and then what
happens next?
with the triangle or
>> Yeah, with the triangle.
>> Dude, I went back to the dorm room,
smoked a cigarette, and uh played
Borderlands or Call of Duty. I mean, I
went back to work. I talked with a
couple of my buddies and you know,
people heard me talking and uh I won't
get into it, but uh they know who they
are and I love them. And I talked with
them a little bit after the hearing and
they got real sketched out when I was
like, "Yo, people want to talk about
this. I can protect you. I'll bring you
forward." ghosted.
But uh you know people would share with
me their
situations with these things but uh that
was really it
>> at that point. Had you met anybody who
claimed to work on the program directly?
>> No, not at all.
>> Okay. But they were just when you say
their situations, their sightings,
>> you know, it was so like I had a
excellent I had an excellent tech
sergeant. He was a prior load master
which I don't know if you know what that
is. They're the guys who load up C130s,
C17s, make sure the weights are good,
make sure everything's good there. He
clearly knew what was going on. He, my
tech sergeant, was the one that was
like, "Dylan, don't talk about this ever
again. You have no idea what you got
yourself into." I ran into a security
forces guy who was a raven, um, which is
some Air Force stuff, but he was a raven
and he was talking about a situation in
North Dakota where a C17 landed, they
dropped off a box. It was this whole
ordeal in the middle of the night. Um,
>> what was in the box?
>> No idea. I was just told that a C17
landed. They were called in. They had to
surround the hanger in North Dakota. Um,
they brought the box in. They were told,
"Don't let anybody come here other than
this general or anybody coming with this
general." They were there for 5, six
hours. C7 lands, open up the hanger
door, throw it back in the C7, a new
one, and off it goes
>> again. So to be clear again, I am very
factual based. Who knows? Maybe it was
some Chinese stuff or Russian stuff, but
we were talking about this while I was
at Langley and people were just telling
me odd things they experienced
>> that were out of place.
>> Um, but yeah, man. I just went I went
back to the dorms, back to the barracks
and uh chilled and that was that.
>> How did you end up at BAE Systems and
what does BAE stand for? British
Aerospace Engineering ended up there. I
finished my master's degree and uh my
background and my education uh they
wanted me there so I took the job needed
to work at what was that 20
26 27. Yeah.
>> And you've called that a kind of multi-
agency role. Uh I don't know if this is
an example of a thing that you can say
anything more about.
>> We're doing fun. I I I you know my
resume speaks for itself. Uh, I can say
I work for BAE Systems. You know, going
back to ODNI and the BS they pulled. Uh,
you know, if I can't talk about it, at
least what I know cuz again, I've never
been through Doppser. I'm not approved.
Like, I am, you know, everybody knows
>> you're going off script.
>> I'm literally just out here existing,
man. Um,
>> good. But uh
you know I uh
I I don't want to get into the agencies
I work for because to the best of my
knowledge without going through
clearance to talk the last I heard I'm
not allowed to talk about the agencies I
work for.
>> Can you say generically you were you
were working on special access programs?
>> 100%.
>> Yep. And so you're working in this
capacity and you run into other people
that you think are on the UFO program
directly.
>> Yes. So I was working at BAE and uh I
was talking about the triangle and other
things I was aware of and uh somebody
who worked for the government in a
program uh knew what BAE was doing to me
with my clearance and had heard about
what I was doing. I worked with them and
they heard about me talking about the
triangle and they thought I was right
into the program because they were and
that's when this began this whole thing.
Uh there were about two other people who
were absolutely right in and uh that's
when I came into knowledge about a very
specific program
>> and Okay,
interesting.
I just just looked at your shirt. Um and
uh yeah. Okay.
Very specific program. So was this like
an overarching umbrella legacy program
like a multigenerational crash retrieval
and reverse engineering program or like
an isolated
thing?
>> I want to be respectful. I mean their
accesses were pretty large in scale but
their job was
fairly large in scale. Um, what you got
to remember is historically if you get
run into a special access program,
usually they allow you the backlog and
they were able to backlog a lot of the
historical stuff and they had found out
quite a bit.
>> Interesting. Okay. So, oh man, my mind
is jumping to all sorts of places. So,
it's like if you have a legacy UFO
reverse engineering program and it's not
in the digital age for many decades, uh,
a lot of knowledge is going to get lost.
A lot of taxonomies aren't going to get
created and you're going to need
something in the modern day to, uh, kind
of concatenate all of that knowledge to
to put it all in kind of a central
database, find deeper patterns with some
of these things.
>> Yeah, I want to be careful here again
cuz I love this country. I love I love
this country. I mean, this is what I
said under oath. I said the Constitution
shredded. Why why I became a
whistleblower is because I was concerned
about people's safety, not UFOs. I know
what they did to me. I know what they
did to others who were in this programs.
Um,
I know how the readons worked, at least
for them and others. I know where they
went. I know all of that. Um
but there is a at least in their
instance a historical backlog that once
they were read in they went and began to
dig into and that's when those
individuals began to get into trouble.
>> Yes.
Let's just talk instead about like the
specifics here because I don't want to
get you into trouble. Kind of high level
how you think the UFO legacy program
works because there are different
narratives out there as to how it
actually functions. So you think that
these are physical craft and you do
think there are bodies as well and
freezers essentially.
>> Well, I don't know about bodies and
freezers. I know there's a genetics
component to it.
>> You know there's a genetics component.
What what what do you mean by that? I
know that there is at some extent Dave
called it biologics. There is no doubt
in my mind that there is something
dealing with genetics. And you know I
again
>> but Dave said specifically that they're
pilots that were recovered with these
UFOs.
>> And I do believe Dave and I want to be
very careful. You and I talked about
this. You know, you know where my line
is with my knowledge outside of
government where I draw a line. Um, I I
think that is true. I think uh
personally I know it's true, but I'll
leave it there. Um,
you know, you get in remote viewing,
we're talking about Midnight Climax, MK
Ultra, Mockingbird, and we're talking
about all those programs. It's almost
like it's an umbrella program under
ESP, Six Sense, UFOs.
It seems in my opinion and knowing
enough that I do know officially from
government and being a whistleblower,
all of that is connected up under one
umbrella and Latsky and Skinwalkers at
the Pentagon, all of that ties into it.
I mean, they almost admit it. So,
>> so MK Ultra, all of these like
offthebooks programs all tie in
together. I think my op well I'm sure a
lot of them do but again looking at
going back to what we discussed with
intent
>> and so I I think of those programs that
you just mentioned as CIA programs.
>> Yeah they are.
>> Yeah. So like the the the larger
umbrella is CIA
>> and then there's like some is there some
department there. I mean a lot of people
name Glenn Gaffne who's the director of
science and technology there as being
respon you know one of the last leaders
of the legacy program. Eric Davis said
that he was the guy on my show. Well, I
would love to talk to the head of the
crash retrieval program during that era,
but he refused to talk to us.
>> And that was that was Glen Gaffne.
>> Yeah. Glen Glen Gaffne.
>> I I I think they're absolutely correct.
Um and then you get into Department of
Energy and we discussed this. So 2023
Dave testifies. I go to the ICIG. I my
attorney. Um the following year, uh
Congress signs into law. They get the
president to sign it. Um, and they say,
"Uh, hey, by the way, you need to
redefine credible and urgent. And oh, by
the way, whistleblowers going to the
ICIG,
uh, if they disclose CIA secrets and
Department of Energy secrets, they're
not allowed to be prosecuted for
espionage." So, why is Congress creating
a law saying that the following year
from whistleblowers coming forward after
Dave comes with 40 other witnesses? Kind
of coincidental, don't you think? they
are allowed to prosecute whistleblowers
for espionage.
>> I believe that that is one of the
arguments that was being made at this
point in time which is well even though
they followed the law you disclose
information to the attorney general
outside of the control group and you
violated the law. You get into secret
laws now. you get into like restricted
data, the atomic energy commission 1954
atomic energy act where things are born
secret and if they have anything to do
with I think it's a transclassified
nuclear material you know uh you know
anything dealing with any of this stuff
uh then upon retrieving a thing or upon
coming into any information you know
that that is already a state secret that
you are
>> absolutely
>> you have possession of and so this idea
would that if you were to tell that to
the IC inspector general, the
intelligence community inspector general
who's kind of playing this judicial role
within the intelligence community, then
you'd be able to be prosecuted.
>> But this goes back to what we talked
about earlier is technically DNI is
supposed to oversee the CIA. That's not
how it works. The CIA answers to the
president. DNI answers to the
intelligence community, which Congress
has sort of oversight over. Mhm.
>> Department of Energy is almost basically
the same as the CIA. They answer to
whoever they want and they claim
executive branch privilege.
>> So whistleblowers coming to the ICIG
disclosing executive branch classified
inherent and born classified presents a
problem and that's why Congress had to
create the legislation in 2024.
>> Hypothetically.
>> Hypothetically. And hypothetically,
uh, there are radar signatures that pick
up UFOs. And are they in a specific
range? Hypothetically.
>> Hypothetically, yes.
>> Okay. Uh, interesting. And so, you're
finding out a lot at BAE Systems, and
this is like water cooler talk or like
how are you figuring this out? I don't
want to get into specifics because I am
so protective of people and I feel so
bad for the people who were harmed by
this. Um,
people who I love and I care about and
have been through a great ordeal with
me, by themselves, with me personally,
without me. Um,
you know, Dave,
when your job is taken from you, you
lose everything and you witness somebody
else going through it and they're
talking about things that you were
brought into. Um,
it impacted them in a way. So, this goes
back to like I said, my thing was when I
heard that people's lives were in
danger, that's why I acted. If if I had
never heard that, I would not be a
whistleblower. Like the UFO subject, all
of this is whatever. I know what I went
through and I know what others went
through and I do believe that. This is
why Sullivan and Dave and everybody
else, Herrera, the threats, all of it
>> messed me up. That's real. All of this
is real.
>> Um I don't want to call it water cooler
talk. It was like
trauma bond. Does that make sense?
>> Sure. Yeah. So, you're in a situation
doing an insane job with insane
accesses, with insane knowledge,
watching other people get screwed by the
government.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's like, who else do you talk to?
And this goes back to Vanguard.
>> This goes back to what M are trying to
figure out. And even the experiencers,
you know, we're trying to help each
other because we're all lost in the
woods. And I don't want to call us
outcasts.
we we can only rely on each other until
this gets over the hump. You know,
>> I want to get to Vanguard and ways for
people to help and support. Um before
that,
>> uh you and Jeremy talked about a power
source with you when it comes to UFOs.
>> Uh Jeremy asked me a question. I didn't
talk about it.
Did you draw an image of a nonhuman
intelligence
pyramid power source
for the ODNI?
He said the power source. He went on my
show and he talked about a pyramid
structure.
>> Talking about a pyramid power source.
We're talking about something that you
could put in other stuff. I'm imagining
that's how we would retrofit
things.
>> Yes.
>> That sort of gives off a definite energy
and seems to almost like fry anything it
interfaces with because it just kind of
keeps going.
>> Yeah. I I you know, I'm familiar. I
listen to it.
>> Okay.
>> What about it, buddy?
>> Okay. So, plead the fifth on that one.
>> You know, I there's no plead the fifth.
I heard it. You know, hypothetically,
um,
>> that's crazy.
>> If you have a crazy
>> hypothetically, if you have an
electromagnetic power source that
probably operates off of nuclear
principles and it gives off energy and
you can't control the load,
>> you know,
>> but I think of a nuclear reaction as,
you know, ending at some point.
>> I would assume so. But again, so this
goes back to one of our first
discussions with Towns and Brown and we
talked about it like the Model T Ford
versus a 2026 Ferrari. Um Henry Ford
builds a Model T and all of a sudden he
ends up at an army base and they're
like, "Oh, this is awesome. Oh, by the
way, check out what's in the garage."
And there's a 2026 Bluetooth Ferrari
with fuel injectors and the rest of it.
Um, if we take a modern nuclear power
source back to the 1700s,
can you control the load? Do do you even
know what the hell is happening?
>> Right. That's in my opinion,
hypothetically, what's going on?
>> Yeah, that's so crazy. It also touches
on, you know, when I interviewed Lou
Alzando
and, you know, it's always hard to parse
these things and he speaks so high level
and there's always, you know, sort of
code or whatever, but it's like
he was like talking about he was like,
you know, the US has a toy and, you
know, it's like it was like this weird
like analogy of like, you know, you have
all these other countries and we're all
in the play pen together and if they
play nice, they get access to the toy.
You know what? Maybe we can find a way
where the kids in the sandbox can play
together, right? If you can't give the
you can't break the toy in 12 pieces,
maybe you put it in the middle of the
sandbox and rather than letting every
child takes turns playing with it, you
make a game where all the kids play with
it at once.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
>> And that's how you do it.
>> It seemed to be maybe an analogy for
like free energy or some like device
that's like all powerful. And then in my
mind I'm like, how real is this? Or is
this classic? You know, the CIA for many
years will play up capabilities, they'll
play down other capabilities. So, it's
always this sort of game of cat and
mouse. You're always trying to figure
out
>> what's going on.
>> But maybe he was talking about this
pyramidal. I, you know, I I love
everybody. I want nothing but the best.
I keep loving my heart. I tell everybody
I love him. I love Lou. Lou is a very
highly intelligent man. And uh
>> he's super smart.
>> Oh, Lou Lou is very intelligent. Yes,
>> Dave. I think the vast majority of us,
in fact, all of us are highly
intelligent.
>> I would have to go and pick apart that
interview. I may do it when we get done
with this. Give me the interview. I'm
going to pick that thing apart and I
will know what Lou is talking about in
IC talk and I will have many opinions.
But, uh, who's not a dummy? And Lou's
book revealed so much that if people
understand IC talk, you can uh
understand what's being said. Same as
James Latsky's interview, the third
interview with Jeremy and George.
>> Lou's book revealed a ton. And it also
if you read imminent his book, he talks
about BAE Systems as one of the
companies that inherited, you know, UFO
technology.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He he talks about locations. He
talks about locations that are very
close to things that happened recently.
What locations does he talk about?
>> Uh
>> he talks about them. So
>> in his book, well Jeremy said this, so
I'm gonna quote Jeremy quoting Lou's
book, which was clear by Doppser cuz I'm
not going to jail cuz I'm free balling.
Uh you know, Pax River comes up quite a
bit, doesn't it?
>> Yeah, it does. So, Pax River is uh
basically has all of the hangers for the
most advanced naval aviation
and it would be where and I just had
Eric Berles on Congressman from Missouri
and he was like, "This looks like a
place where you would transfer a UFO.
You might even hold a UFO." I was able
to actually be on site and see the
facility that would have been that
facility that they were going to
transfer from Loheed Martin to Bigalow
Airspace. And if and I'll tell you just
being there and seeing it um if you were
ever going to do a transfer, it would be
logistically the perfect venue to do
that.
>> I was in loose book.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then you got to remember
too, and then here's the problem is I'm
trying to be so safe cuz I love this
country. I love national defense. I
don't want to put anybody in danger. Pax
River strategically for a defense
perspective if you have a Golden Dome
hypothetically that's a really important
place to have that's pretty far east you
have access all along the east coast so
you throw something on Pax you throw
something in South Florida throw
something up in Maine you can defend the
east coast um
but yeah
>> yeah yeah hypothetically
>> hypothetically and then you also have
Salvatore Py with his Navy patents from
2018 coming out of PAX river and
basically everything that you would need
to build a UFO from room temperature
superc conductivity to, you know, mass
reducing uh device, this thing that
breaks the Schwinger limit. But yeah, he
has he has all these patents that
basically like how you would build a
UFO.
>> Well, what you got to love about Paise
and you and I talked about him and other
things last night, too. I I love the
fact that we're getting into this right
now, but uh you know, if you go into
Google patents, uh they reference older
patents to justify their current ones.
>> And what's interesting is if you get
into some triangle patents and some
other things, you start to track down
power sources and gravity control, you
end up back in the 50s with the Air
Force and NASA and they're referencing
things that are like, huh? So, like what
from the ' 50s? just I it's been like 2
years since I read it, but they're
talking about like gravity and uh yeah
temperatures and all of it.
>> It was the the golden age of relativity
then was what it was called. And even
>> you had Bryce Dwit was writing about you
know um superc conductivity and these
rotating superconductors that would
maybe create gravitational
perturbations. He was writing about this
in the 50s. You also had uh Stanley
Deser and Richard Arnowit from Princeton
writing about gravitons and that
connects with Ning Lee's work in the
early 2000s because she had this
graviton model where you had uh AC
superconductors uh rotating super
quickly creating weight reduction for
anything above it and uh you know it was
this gravitational shielding mechanism
and if you read James Latsky's book he
talks about uh ceramic superconductors
which are very similar to you know what
Ning Lee was talking about.
>> So FYI, thank you for sharing that
because I listen to you and Gerb and I I
pay attention. I always learn some new
stuff about people and science. When I
listen to you and Gerb always throws
some acronym, I'm like, "Oh, what is
that?" And then I find my rabbit hole
down. I'm like, "Oh, I know about that."
Um, so thank you for sharing that. But,
uh, you know, you get into a really
weird place with Paise and well, how
much of that is a cover and how much of
that is true?
Yeah, it's very it's very unclear. And
there are basic when I run those patents
by conventional physicists, they usually
say this is extremely intriguing, but
there are like checkmate one ways to,
you know, debunk this stuff. It doesn't
really make any sense on the face of it.
So there's either something deeper going
on and he has something vital he's not,
you know, saying or it's, you know,
deflecting or trying to throw people off
the trail. It's unclear.
>> Yeah. And he there was a place where I
got to in my interview with him where he
was like, "Jesse, go no further or
whatever." We were talking about uh the
fifth dimension uh where
electromagnetism might connect with
gravity.
>> Let's get a little So as you hit the
Schwinger limit, break spaceime.
What happens visav this fifth dimension?
>> Well, not good.
>> We'll not touch on that. Leave it there,
Jesse. Trust me on that. Leave it there.
So that might connect with this guy
Ferris Williams who had this uh 5D
dynamical model. Um and he was so oki
Shannon who was this
>> yeah I know I know
>> you know who he is. Yeah. So he's this
um Los lo Alamos project manager who was
involved in this advanced theoretical
physics group with Hal Putoff and a
bunch of people in the 80s and '90s and
they were kind of open- source trying to
study you know what how UFOs work and he
was like the closest guy who had like a
theoretical model for describing this
was um this guy Ferris Williams spelled
with a P. What this five-dimensional
theory appears to do is tie together
electromagnetism with gravity. And if
you can do that, if you can take
advantage of his expanded Maxwell
equations, then maybe you can build an
anti-gravity device.
>> Yeah. I uh
we're going to have fun with this one.
So, I'm gonna tiptoe this. So I had told
you that in 2024 I had a large database
saved of documents, briefings, private
messages on classified on JWIX. Um and
NSA came through and cleaned house and
they basically shut down Intel link and
intel docs and uh we had to go get new
justifications. But, uh, Oak Shannon was
a massive conversation on the classified
servers and, uh, I may have been
participating upon that once upon a
time.
>> Really?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, people thought maybe he was involved
in real UFO legacy.
I think people well this gets into the
fun with ATIP OAP UAP task force and the
theory that a lot of that was red
teaming the legacy program
>> um and figuring out okay because
>> these groups are so selective that I
don't want to call it brain drain it's
very group think
>> so create a third party figure out what
people can figure out with the internet
and modern open source
uh have new theories come through and
feed it back in. You know what I mean?
Like, oh, we're going to reverse it,
feed it back in, and let these people uh
>> have some new ideas. Um,
>> so it was like, let's create this faux
oppositional force, almost like a white
hat hacker. Let's figure out
vulnerabilities with the UFO legacy
program, where they're missing, you
know, what they're missing on certain
things. bring in some outside civilian
eyes with the derds from OAP where you
had civilian scientists writing about
really exotic propulsion modalities and
then it feeds back into the legacy
program.
>> Yes. And it's real fun because this goes
back to ODNI and things I figured out
after I went to the ICIG and I knew how
to track down search and rescue ops cuz
I did it for a living. I had to find
soft guys overseas. Excuse my
language. Sorry for the fbomb. Um, but I
know a search and rescue tasker with
imagery and sigant when I see it and I
know what is our guys and what isn't.
Um, and they were very interested in how
I knew everything I knew, especially
after I went to the IG and all the
documents I had and imagery I had. Um,
conventionally, most of the people I
know believe that there is some element
that all of that was getting fed back
into Legacy
>> to run cover, which is, hey, these guys
figured out, not just on the inside,
classified, but on the outside, here's
what they're seeing. Feed it back in to
adjust appropriately. Well, I look at
the modern, you know, AROW director and
it's a former NSA guy. And so I think
about what maybe a cynical version of a
modern push for disclosure would be. And
it would be like, let's get limited
disclosure. We'll increase the surface
area of this stuff. You get a bunch of
civilian scientists, people from the
outside, newly interested in the topic.
They're contributing all sorts of
things. You have signals intelligence on
all of this stuff. You can collate it
and then you can search it. You can
analyze it and all of a sudden, you
know, you crowdsource intelligence for
the UFO legacy program which remains
intact, vital, and newly immunized by
the executive branch.
Fully agreed.
>> Yeah, that's tough. That's tough to and
wherever you go, you know, people, you
know, seem really iconoclastic and
irreverent and then they, you know,
they're they're on the outside and I
think it's this really tough thing where
you probably experienced this post
blowing the whistle, post doing your
first thing in this area. You get sort
of softly surrounded by spooky people
and then it's like join this board and
join this thing and then you turn into
this like castrated version of your
former self that was like really you
know gung-ho about like true disclosure.
>> I uh you know I for me personally I've
been very blessed and lucky which is
I've been very clear in this. I mean
this even goes back to OD and I I told
OD and I was like look I expect you guys
to lie. What I want is I want answers
for me. I want accountability. I want
restitution for the whistleblowers. It's
like I don't give a damn what you guys
do. Answer why you did what you did.
Hold the people accountable. Don't let
the doctors and the GS14s and 15s do
this to anybody else. And then make sure
we can live our lives with our families.
Um,
luckily I kind of encapsulated myself
where I've been very closed off. And
even when you and I first talked, you
know, it's never been an issue to get in
touch with me. Everybody knows how to
get in touch with me, but uh what you
said in my experience with everybody
else is very true. Yeah.
>> And that is very true. You get
surrounded and
>> it's even a concern now. Like I have
friends who went to war with me against
the CIA and DNI internally like went to
war and said I can prove you're lying
and did so. Um,
but you're absolutely right. And that
and now and then you get into the whole
thing with like how they use this
against you is like you bring it up.
It's like, "Oh, you're paranoid." Well,
no, I'm not paranoid. Why are you coming
at me saying all of a sudden like, "Oh,
join this board. Join this group. Come
into this meeting." It's like, you never
gave a damn until right now,
>> right?
>> You know what I mean?
>> Yeah.
>> So,
yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Intent, my man. Intent.
>> Totally. Well, I think intent uh
translates over time. And if you have
you keep your intent pure, that's the
best sort of defense against getting
sort of rolled into those sort of weird
quasi quasi disclosure, but quasi, you
know, I don't know, just weird
initiatives because there's a lot of
those weird initiatives.
>> It almost seems like private business
and parts of the IC are really deep into
remote viewing and what people know and
experiencers right now. That that really
seems like a big thing going on. Almost
as if people are expecting something to
come,
>> right? Yeah. No. Well, speaking of
expecting something to come, there's
this constant talk in UFO disclosure
world of some event happening in the mid
2020s. First it was like 2026, then
2027, now it might be 2034.
And going back to actually that Lou
Alzando interview, I remember calling
him out and saying, "Look, I think you
it seems like you know a lot more than
what you're saying about all these
topics and you're holding a lot in
clearly." And he admitted that and he
sort of got uncomfortable and he was
like time is not a luxury that we can
afford. What is imminent?
>> Time is not a luxury that we can afford.
We we the time has come. We need to
start having the conversation
collectively.
We should should have had it a while
ago, but we we really need to we really
need to start having the conversation.
>> And I I I would love for that to not be
such an opaque statement. What is that
what does that mean? And I you know,
honestly, I tend to be skeptical of
anybody saying, you know, here's a date.
You know, something might happen by by
that date. Um but yeah, what what do you
think? Do you think that that might be
it? Also, simultaneously, I'll defend
that position and say I can't explain
modern disclosure. Maybe maybe it's how
I just explained it and maybe they're
cynically crowdsourcing some of this
knowledge, but I can't explain it
otherwise because they've created
monsters in the form of people like UAP
Gerb and other people who are just open-
source researchers that they didn't
anticipate.
>> You're you're opening the whole
Pandora's box of everything we
discussed. So I am very fact-based which
is I am looking what is provable what I
know is true behind closed doors what is
classified it's why I keep telling
people you know Dave Matt myself Lou
Straten Herrera listen listen Barber
doesn't matter if you went forward put
your name to paper and said this is true
execute me if it's not true it's not up
to us to go and commit felonies to
disclose the classified to the public
the public should be asking asking the
government to say, "Yo, did they lie?"
As of right now, as far as I'm aware,
not a single entity in the government
has said any of us have lied. But, uh,
the future in a future date and time is
a luxury.
So, I have tiptoed around this a lot and
you and I talked about this. I think you
know where I'm going with this, which is
I think my best guess, I don't know for
sure. This is my best guess. I think
something happened in the mid 2000s that
changed the game. I think something
showed up that we were not tracking.
Maybe China had a breakthrough. Maybe
Russia had a breakthrough. Maybe a third
party made a break breakthrough. Maybe
something came here that we just didn't
know. I think that based off of the way
the government, the military views
things, knowing they're tracking
aircraft carriers, nuclear sites, it's
not just the US, it's everybody like
this is a global issue. I think that uh
it's not hard, especially knowing the
way the IC works and knowing their
capabilities and what they have on their
end to assess based off of the
classified, especially in the special
access programs. We're seeing an
increase. We're seeing these locations.
Something is happening. And what upsets
me is I'm not a threat narrative guy,
and we talked about this, too. I I hate
to say it, but I'm going to go there.
You know, people talk about uh Blue Beam
in the hypothetical false flag
narrative. I don't think that's going to
happen, but of course, I have a concern
with it because I know this subject is
true. I know these craft exists. I know
this is happening. I know what they did
to me. In the last year, they falsified
evidence for me to go and get a death
penalty for treason. They threw
espionage against everybody else. Dave
is talking about him getting hit with
espionage. And they did that blatantly.
Like they called up journalists and were
like, "Yo, we're falsifying evidence.
We're going to throw this dude in jail
and throw these other guys in there."
I'm not saying it's going to happen. My
issue is I am searching for the truth
like everybody else. I happen to know
some truths. I'm trying to figure out
like you are and you and the rest of the
people that watch this and the
experiencers,
all of us need to rely on each other and
hold the government accountable.
However, back to the future date,
Lou is a very smart man. Uh Lou is a
very capable man and other people are
very intelligent and capable and I think
the general consensus is overall at some
point there will be a tipping point no
matter what. No idea the date, no idea
what it is. The general consensus is you
cannot keep this a secret. And I don't
know when that snaps. M the other thing
that it seems like OD and I and Arrow
maybe tried to use against you was this
uh hieroglyphic thing that may or may
not have been drawn that Jeremy again
discussed
uh where and hieroglyphics are a thing
that show up on a lot of historical you
know UFO crashes. So like you have
Lonnie Zamora in ' 64. You have you know
um Roswell in 47 of course you have a
lot of these rumors that you know
hieroglyphics are on the I think
Kexsburg in ' 65 also were hieroglyphics
as well.
>> Yeah. Well here we go again back to the
way my brain works. So indigenous
Americans hypothetically before uh
Europeans came over and we became the
society. If I took a Chinese or Japanese
and Asian uh letter that's a hieroglyph
and I gave it to a Native American, they
would see it as a hieroglyph.
Now, that doesn't mean it's uh
extraterrestrial. It doesn't mean it's
not human. It just means we don't
understand it at the time it's
happening. Um, is there anything about
this hypothetical hieroglyph that might
hypothetically lead us to believe that
this is a non-human in origin and not
just some ancient tradition?
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Is there anything about this
hypothetical hieroglyph that might
hypothetically lead us to believe that
this is a non-human in origin and not
just some ancient tradition?
>> Oh man, you're really putting me on the
spot, Jesse. Um,
>> so you don't have to answer.
>> I believe the fifth.
>> Fair enough. Fair enough. Um,
yeah. And so, so, okay, BAE also has a
really interesting history, you know.
Um, there's a guy named Dr. Ron Evans
there who talked about something called
Project Greenlow and he actually wrote a
book about this public.
>> So this is all new for me.
>> Yeah, it's really wild. He's this
British dude and he talked about they
they how they studied anti-gravity for
like 10 years and it was this big
project and maybe this is a cover, maybe
this isn't, but he said that they, you
know, figured out some interesting
frameworks, but they kind of debunked
everything. So
>> yeah, I don't I don't necessarily buy
that. I mean, this goes back into
America, and you notice Five Eyee has
been pretty quiet. Japan's popping off
almost as if Japan's seeing stuff
recently in the last 5 years or so.
>> I I interviewed their former defense
minister and he's pretty woke on UFOs.
>> Good. He should be because I may or may
not hypothetically know. Um, but uh, you
know, people
>> know something about Japan or
hypothetically.
>> Yeah, hypothetically. Um but uh you know
you talk about BAE people forget
everybody wants to talk about Lockheed
Skunk Works. BAE has Falcon Works that
is BAE's version of skunk works and BAE
has joint ventures with Lockheed with
skunk works on material sciences on
engineering on engines on all of it.
>> Commander David Fraver who was in the
Nimttz incident he works at BAE I
believe.
>> I would I am not aware of that. Uh, I
believe you. Um, for me, I don't want to
blow up anybody's spot if that's true.
But yeah.
>> Well, if if I had experienced what he
experienced in 2004, you know what I
would do? I'd be like, I want to figure
out how this stuff works.
>> I don't blame him. I again, I'm
searching my own answers. As Jeremy
said, Dylan's out here looking for
answers. He's probably never going to
get them. I know.
>> Yeah. It's crazy topic. Um, okay. Okay.
So, you find out all of this stuff
through people that How much do you
trust these people at BAE who you're
having conversations with?
>> I trust them. I trust them 100%. And
then this is where this gets really
problematic.
>> You're sure they weren't feeding you?
>> I'm positive because the problem is when
I became a whistleblower, went to Arrow
and the IG, they confirmed it was true.
>> And how did they confirm that it was
true?
>> Because they wrote my memorandum for
record. It's called an MFR. and what my
triangle sighting was listed as
unclassified.
Everything else they immediately threw
into a special access program. And this
goes back to Tim Phillips interview with
Chris Sharp, which again, we all know
it, but I'm going to cite what is
publicly available. Tim Phillips himself
said triangles are real. They want to
know where they're coming from. And we
can get into reverse engineering and
hypothetically our own programs that
have been successful to some extent per
James Latsky saying yeah we were
semisuccessful
but uh
>> explain who Tim Phillips is.
>> Tim Phillips was the basically the
director who took over after uh homeboy
Kirk Patrick over there at Arrow. Um
>> and Tim Phillips acknowledged yes Dylan
drew two drawings and yes Arrow was told
what to classify because of his security
classification guide. I would love for
that security classification guide to be
released publicly on why they
hypothetically classified drawings that
I can't talk about. This is per Jeremy,
per ODNI, committing a felony against
people. But, uh,
Arrow directly, indirectly acknowledged
to me that this stuff was real on that
side of the house. Now, what you got to
remember is after I became a
whistleblower in 23, I knew where to
look already. And I began ripping data
legally. I want to be clear there.
Legally ripping everything as a CWMD
expert cuz these are considered a weapon
of mass destruction. And I took it upon
myself to serve the nation. And uh
>> what's the C stand for in CW?
>> Counterweapons of mass destruction.
>> So you had access to all this stuff.
>> I had access to what I needed to outside
of SAP. So when I was at Ditra, I wasn't
SAP red. I was ACCM red. Um, yeah.
>> So basically, this is wild. So you get
told some stuff by people you really
trust. And then in 2023, you start to
systematically corroborate all these
things that they're telling you with
accesses that you have. So you're
literally looking into databases,
government databases on UFO legacy crash
retrieval programs. I I don't want to
say UFO legacy crash retrieval programs.
I'm looking into databases and I know
where to look and what the signatures
are so I can deconstruct legacy doing
taskers. And then I can begin to pull
reports and briefings from Arrow and
reports about
baiting craft uh and how to take them
down, which matches things I may or may
not have testified to prior that
happened in the past.
>> Can I take a best guess as to how
>> You can do what you want, man. I'm going
to sit here uh and do my best to not
pull an organ and be like, "Oh god." So,
go for it. I mean, my best guess, and
this is again based on open source
information in again lose book and other
other things, uh baiting UFOs with
nuclear material and then taking them
down with directed energy and
high-powered radar.
>> That's a hell of a statement, Jesse. I
think uh you're a very intelligent young
man, sir. Well, it's that almost feels
like kind of ubiquitously known at this
point. Um, that's that's really wild.
So, you're looking at Wow. Okay.
Well, imagine imagine that uh that was
all turned over to ODNI, too. So, what
is happening right now?
>> Why don't they do anything about any of
this stuff?
>> I think my best guess is that they
really don't want the crime aspect. I
think that if we're going to get
disclosure, it's going to be a we can
confirm we're not alone. Uh give
immunity to the past and try their best
to cover up all the BS that happened.
>> Well, you must be of a split mind
because you're probably aware that they
are going to shovel all sorts of
actually very unsaavory things into
>> that's my quote unquote UFO legacy
programs including maybe you know MK
Ultra mind control.
>> I fully
Iran Contra style stuff. Absolutely. you
know, like uh no habius corbus hits done
on people, you know, all sorts of
But simultaneously,
you are one of the people that they are
unfairly going after cuz you weren't
implicated in any legacy efforts at all.
>> So, so you must be of a split mind where
you're like, I want to be off the hook
and to be able to speak freely and not
in all these kind of crazy
hypotheticals, but you also want people
to be held accountable.
>> Yeah. Well, I do. And again, this is
again, this is where this gets crazy is
like, look, I I want the best for
everybody. I love these people. I get
it. If you're a young woman or man in
your 30s trying to have a family and
you're making 120 grand in DC and your
life revolves around clearances and
doing jobs, you will never have that
money. You'll you'll never have a
comparable job on the outside. I get it.
But at the same time, I would wish these
people would go and say like look almost
consci's objector status which is like I
don't want to impact somebody else. I
cannot put my name to this. Um I would
also say this and this is where this
gets real fun is I have no idea how much
I've been read into. Like I got my first
readons were like eight hours. Uh they
gave us a stack of paper like this thick
with sticky notes. It was like sign
here, here, here. They're like, you have
15 minutes to sign or you lose your job.
I have to this day I have I've been read
into so much stuff. I don't even know
what I was read into.
>> Right. So, that's tricky, man. So,
you're you're probably there just
landmines everywhere.
>> And here we are now. This is why I said,
you know what? You guys want to threaten
me with treason and commit a felony
against me. You guys want to do this to
me. I'm going to do my best. I love my
country. I'm going to tell the truth.
I'm not playing the game. you're going
to be the people's champion, especially
after they hear the rest of this absurd
story. So, so, so you look into all this
stuff and then at what point do you
experience backlash and reprisals?
>> Well, when I was at BAE, they were
playing with my clearance and it's
called an admin withdrawal. One of the
things I know people want to go and say
is like, "Oh, of course they'll have."
No, my clearance has never been revoked.
I've never had a security violation. My
clearance has always been intact. I've
never failed a polygraph. Straight up.
Never. Never been arrested. But I've
never had a thing done. Not financial
issues, none of it.
When I was at BAE, it's called an admin
withdrawal. So for the people who are in
the IC, they're going to hear this term,
they're going to laugh. It's called 2
years use or lose. And what that means
is that if you leave the IC, if you
don't use your clearance within two
years, your clearance goes into admin
withdrawal. There is a way, and I know
this because of my company. I worked for
Aditra for 6 years. Awesome company.
Loved it. never had an issue. Great
bosses for my company, great bosses for
Ditra, great contract lead bosses. Love
them. I would shout them out, but I'm
very careful about people I know. Um, so
a way to get around this is what you do
is uh OPM and the government in CIA. Um,
what you do is you put in a request for
an updated SF86.
And the way you do this,
>> what's an SF86? That is your security
background investigation. So you have to
give over your financials, everyone you
know, fill out all your forms, who
you're married to, who you talk to,
anybody overseas, which a lot of people
in this space have violated who are
currently working for government. And
I'll leave it there. Um, but what you do
is you put that in and then you submit
it to the security manager. But here's
how you get around and this is how you
destroy a security clearance. you submit
it to the old SSO. And the reason why
you do it is if you're not working for
the company or the agency at the time
you request it, you have 30 days to fill
it out. If you don't fill it out within
30 days, your security clearance is
administratively withdrawn. And this
just happened to me in contact in the
desert. I was using my security
clearance last June. So my security
clearance technically is supposed to be
good. Right now is undefined. Somebody
put in a request to my former company
for an updated SF86 and because I don't
work for them, that company does not owe
it to me for me to fill it out. And now
I'm in a status of undefined. So I would
need another company to pick me up,
refill it all out, go through the
paperwork, go through the finances, pay
people to do it, and that is a way to
screw with people in their careers. So
you're in this kind of liinal limbo
space where your security clearance is
technically good but de facto it doesn't
work it's bad and as a result of that
you can't pursue other professional
opportunities you're kind of stuck at
BAE
>> at that point in time in 2018 yes so
what they did is they've disappeared me
it's it's currently happening and now
again and this goes back to when you
asked me the question about when did I
start to see this the problem is is when
I was at BAE between 2015 and 2018 they
were playing this game. I worked for
Ditra January 2019 until 2024 summer 24.
Awesome. Love them. Great people. That
mission was awesome. I am so upset that
that job that contract ended.
Once that contract ended in 2024, that's
when all these games began again. All of
these games with me began again. going
into polygraphs and they're asking me to
disclose classified that I testified to
with the IG playing games with my
clearance, playing games with my job
wrecks. Um,
>> why do you think cuz you
>> you experienced all this stuff like from
2015 to 2018 at BAE, you're learning all
this sensitive UFO stuff. Yeah, maybe
you're looking into databases later, but
like you haven't done anything
treasonous with any of this information.
And then after you serve for 5 years on
the defense uh threat reduction agency
around counter WMD stuff and you do that
presumably pretty effectively because
you do it for 5 years at the end of that
they're still worried that you're a
liability. I don't understand.
>> Well the problem is is that that last
year is when I became a whistleblower. I
went to the IG. I went to Arrow. I went
to Congress. Okay.
>> So I kept
>> Why did you decide to do that? because I
had heard from people who were
whistleblowers went forward. And this
goes back to Dave and rest in peace to
Matthew Sullivan. And I'm so f so sorry
for his family. Like this goes back to
Vanguard. I I wish nothing but the best
for his loved ones. like I don't like
this stuff, but uh why I decided to come
forward was because people who were
whistleblowers and affiliated with the
UAP task force made a comment and said
people's lives were in danger and one of
the people who was 100% read in and had
their career destroyed
two weeks prior
uh got into another mess related to this
as I interpreted it. M
>> I came forward because I wanted to save
lives.
>> I didn't give a about UFOs.
>> So, you were inspired by the unfair
retributions.
>> Yes. And
>> being hurled against current
whistleblowers and you wanted to kind of
jump in
>> that. And then also like I have a thing
and we talked about this. You know, I'm
a Catholic. It doesn't mean all other
religions are wrong. I just know for me
it's right. Um I'm going to have to
answer for everything when I pass away.
And I can't go and die and look God in
the eyes and say like, "Hey, you know
this is real to some extent. What
did you do?" Because if you would have
said it, then you could have saved a
life.
>> That's why.
>> Was there any particular testimony that
kind of resonated with you most where
you were were you listening to a
particular speech or congressional
testimony?
>> This was all closed door behind
government and classification people who
100% were whistleblowers. I knew they
had issues like I said in weaponized. I
knew that there was some stuff they
weren't telling the truth on. I didn't
want to risk it. And I know what
I know what I went through. I know what
the specific individual who was 100%
read in, hands-on, what they went
through while in government and then how
they ended up with me bumping into these
programs under my job at BAE. Um,
I didn't want to risk it cuz I know it.
I mean like break into the house,
leaving mail on the table, taking
computers, that whole thing.
>> Wait, so that was happening to you?
>> That was happening to the people I knew
who were in Legacy back at BAE in 2018.
>> Got it. And so you were almost worried
about getting grouped in with them as
well.
>> Not just Well, a little bit. It was
mainly they had just lost their job 2
weeks prior in 2023
>> and I heard through the grapevine that
that had happened. I know they were in
Legacy. I know what was done to them. I
know their job was taken from them. They
lost their job two weeks prior and I get
told people are in danger currently who
worked in it.
>> Got it. So you and then you were getting
worried about getting lumped.
>> There you go.
>> And did you worry at all that the
searches you made in 2023 were linked
with no any of the things that they
faced?
>> No, because I've always I've always
assumed and this goes back to OD and I
when they duplicated my phone. I you
know behind the scenes all of us just
assume that all of us are tapped but
like I know I'm tapped. I mean they
duplicated my phone. I have always told
people like look if you're talking to me
I will never say a word. I'm not
recording. I'm not screenshotting but
this conversation to be fully
transparent is not private cuz somebody
else is listening a third party. I
understand that sounds paranoid but it's
not. It's real. Um, we know people we
know people that absolutely happened to.
Um, provably. Um,
>> but yeah.
>> Can you say anything more about that?
>> I don't want to.
>> Okay. It may go back to people I talked
about under oath in front of Congress
and uh
>> how much I love them and care about them
and how great of a person they are. I'll
leave it there.
>> Okay. So you're you're seeing uh
retributions
um against these people who you were
having conversations with in the 2015 to
2018 time range
>> in 2023ish.
>> Yes.
>> And so you start to get nervous and
you're like And then also you're
inspired by these other whistleblowers
who've come out, people like David
Grush, and you're like I want to throw
my hat in the ring.
>> Yeah. Well, so at that point Dave had I
I never talked to Dave. That's the other
irony is the I only knew one person who
was involved in this. Now, I knew that
this whole thing existed, but you got to
remember is where I'm at is so closed
off from the rest of the IC. I am in my
own little bubble, special access
program, like different world. And even
at Ditro, it's a different world because
>> why do you think they're going to lump
you in automatically? Like why do you
think they're going to show up at your
house?
>> So, it wasn't that. It was
the person I one of the people I know
who were legacy lost their job and they
were working in programs that are
affiliated with it and I thought that
they may have been a whistleblower
so I wanted to make sure I came forward
as basically protect them.
>> Got it. Got it. And did that person end
up coming forward or no?
>> Plea the fifth. Okay, fair enough. So,
you come out and who do you go to first?
>> I uh the person who made the comment
that people's lives were in danger, I
called them. I said, "Look, I know you
have
I don't want to call it misrepresented.
Uh you have been a bit of a big fish
story." You know what that means? Like,
oh, I caught a bass that was this size
and you tell everybody else it was this
size. Kind of extrapolating the truth. I
was like, "Look, I know I know this has
happened. It's no fault of your own. Uh,
but if people's lives are in danger,
don't with me." Considering what I
did for a living, which we kind of
talked about already, I don't play with
people's lives. I said, uh, you know,
if you are telling me the truth,
people's lives are in danger. Do not lie
to me because you will destroy my life,
my family's life, my friends lives. if
people's lives are actually in danger, I
need to immediately talk to somebody who
can do something about it. And I was on
the phone with this person for about an
hour and I decided, you know what? On
the off chance that is true, I got to do
something. And they had connected me
with Congress. And that's March 3rd. I
talked with Congress 2 or three days
prior. In March 3rd, I was in a skiff
with Congress staffers.
>> Okay. And you're telling these
congressional staffers almost everything
you know about
>> 60 70 I told them what they needed to
confirm that there was a program it
existed some bad stuff happened that
this stuff is real. Yes.
>> It's interesting because when you speak
to these staffers they're just super
high conviction that you know
again it's like either there's some
ridiculous you know acting academy on
the inside of the government or it's
like you know this is just real. It's
just real. Um, that's so wild. Okay, so
you're you told you tell these
congressional staffers and then what's
the next step? Are they like, "Thank you
for the information and then we'll look
into it." Or like what what happens?
>> I go in there, I tell them. I'm like,
"Look,
that's a whole another story that one
day I'll tell." I mean, I was I was
nervous. I was shaking obviously with
what I've been through. I don't trust
people. I'm like, I have to do this. I
don't want somebody to die. Um,
but uh about
>> Did you ever speak to Kirk McConnell by
any chance? You don't have to say.
>> I play the fifth.
>> Okay. It's interesting because he he he
literally said on my show,
some of these guys come in, they're
extremely earnest. They have credible
backgrounds and they're they're nervous
and they're shaking. And uh it was
almost in some cases palpable. I can
recall um an instance where one uh
source uh was visibly shaking. I mean
physically uh so stressed
>> and I'm sure you are not alone in that
if if if hypothetically you guys spoke
>> but that's why I remembered
>> I uh I think
>> and he was a he's a um Senate
intelligence community.
>> He was Kirk's Kirk is an intelligent
man. Um
Kirk has been around the block and I
think Kirk ended up where he's at
because not because it isn't true. I
think Kirk knows what's going on.
>> Yeah, he knows what's going on. He
worked for Senator Jack Reid. And Jack
Reed's mentor is a guy or actually the
person who preceded Jack Reid was
Claybourne Pel. Claybourne Pel was this
senator who was long into UFOs who's
from Delaware. both of them were and um
you know obsessed with with with UFOs
and he was Biden's mentor which I find
fascinating.
>> So there's this like weird Biden UFO
connection.
>> And then back to 2023 who was president
when we were going through the IG and
all these games are I digress. Digress.
>> No comment.
>> Okay. So you're going you're going to uh
Congress, maybe the Senate, and you are
spilling your guts and then what do they
say? Do they say we're going to we're
going to help you. we're going to follow
up on this or what happens?
>> I I go and tell them. I'm like, "Yo,
this is what's going on." Uh, I clearly
said enough because they already knew
certain things specifically about what I
was saying. Uh, and the questions they
asked and their responses were very
telling. They knew some of the stuff I
was saying. Um, and they hit me up and
they're like, "Yo, did you go to Arrow?"
It's like, "No, I don't know how to
contact Arrow. Is that what you need me
to do?" So they got me touching Arrow
and I went to Arrow. Uh that was the end
of March
>> and Arrow is the all domain anomalies
resolution office. And it is now kind of
patently obvious that the first
iteration of this under Sean Kirkpatre
was literally a fly trap for you know
UFO information probably had legacy
ties. They would systematically lure in
people like yourself who had
information. They would collect all the
information often not even record the
conversation just kind of use it for
they didn't record yours. No.
>> There you go. And then and then
sometimes I my guess is they might have
destroyed evidence in certain cases
because I've had a couple of people tell
me they spoke to them then their emails
were deleted after the fact and weird
things happened with them.
>> I I believe that. I mean, luckily for
me, luckily for me, going through what
I've been through and having dealt with
this across government, I don't trust
people. So, I save everything. So, uh,
when I got an email telling me, hey, we
know this is wrong. Correct it from
Arrow. Uh, I saved that document and,
uh, I made sure that was secured legally
and readily available at phone call
request. If you have uh TSSEI,
I will send everything over to you with
everything. But uh that doesn't surprise
me what you said.
>> That's awesome. So, you recorded your
conversation.
>> I kept everything, Jesse. And this goes
back to OD and I got caught red-handed
lying.
>> And how so?
>> So, Arrow had sent over a false MFR.
>> Uh said that was the true one. And
>> what's an MFR?
>> Memorandum for record. It was supposed
to be their version of what I told them.
They acknowledged to me in email that it
was wrong. They told me to write the
corrections. Uh, this goes into the
staffer they targeted. Um,
I saved that. I saved the IM. I saved
every I save private conversations with
people. Um,
but I made the corrections and I saved
my email back to them with confirmation
saying they received it. When I went to
ODNI under Kuzowski and I'm not trying
to throw him under the bus. I'm just
telling you these are the facts.
>> Arrow is under Kazowski
>> right now. When I went to ODNI September
10th of 2025, Kloski was director per
ODNI digs
sent my MFR, my legal signed document to
ODNI saying this is what I said and they
sent the false report and luckily I
saved it. So, I can't tell you Arrow and
Cosloski lied. I can't tell you OD and I
lied.
>> So, Arrow sent an entirely different
report than the one that you
>> They sent the one that they knew was
false and I had the true one.
>> What What do you have any sense of the
difference between the false?
>> I do. I Because I had to make the
corrections. I had to sign it. I sent it
back. I made the corrections. Yes, I do.
>> So, what were the falsities included in
this? I don't want to I don't want to
get into specifics because it reveals
people, specific people. That was my
concern. And then it also exposes
staffers. It exposes very specific
things. And then this gets into ODNI dig
calling Jeremy saying I made a false
drawing that never happened. That the
report itself contradicts what ODNI was
trying to get me on for treason. It's
it's a whole thing.
>> So did they they included details that
you didn't include?
>> 100%. And then those details, did they
happen to line up with things that you
actually experienced? So they literally
just inserted stuff.
>> They did. And that's why they called me
and said, "Hey, Dylan, you need to make
the corrections." And what they were
doing was trying to get me to give more
information about the people I knew.
>> They're fishing.
>> Yes, 100%.
>> Jesus Christ, man. That is dark.
>> I know. That's why I called Congress. I
was like, "Yo, they're coming after you
and oh, by the way, I probably need an
attorney because this is some messed up
stuff." Have you ever Cuz cuz Loski
seems like a reasonable guy. You know,
>> he is. I never talked to him just like
Kirk Patrick. Kirk Patrick want to meet
with me. When I got through with it, uh
the people I met with and I think the
lieutenant colonel, I think he's a good
dude. I talked with him on the phone and
him and I had a long conversation about
this and they know the truth, Jesse, at
at this behind the scenes. People know
the truth. But uh they wanted me to go
and talk to Kurt Patrick and Kurt
Patrick ducked me. you talked to me.
>> It's so weird. I mean, I I've
interviewed now so many people like
yourself and we'll like talk for hours
on end and like, you know, I'm getting a
sanitized version of the testimony that
Arrow is getting and wrapped up in
hypotheticals and all sorts of things
and then so and and I'm high conviction
in what you're saying, you know, and
then you have this long conversation
with them. You give them everything and
then they insert details and give it to
the ODNI and then the ODNI accuses you
of treason.
>> So here we go. So to be clear, I'll say
it this way. They wanted me to name the
people that I knew that were working on
the program. I refused to do it and they
wanted the name of the program.
I refused to do it because I didn't want
to put that person in danger. Going back
to why I went to Congress cuz I thought
their life was in danger.
That's the problem. They wanted the
people and they wanted the name. And if
you are in these programs, those names
change so many months and that's how you
can narrow down who spoke.
>> So why should anybody trust Arrow on a
go forward basis?
>> Maybe they're doing better now, but the
problem is, and this is my big thing
back to what we were talking about as me
being here, is not just Vanguard, but I
want ODNI held accountable. I want to
know why Closki and Arrow sent a false
report to ODNI. I want to know why
apparently per ODNI, Arrow falsified
evidence against me. That is, think
about that, Jesse. Remove UFOs. We
talked about this. Remove UFOs. You have
a disabled veteran with a clearance with
polygraph
and the lead intelligence agency
falsified evidence against me for
treason, which is a death penalty.
That's where we're at right now.
>> Can you say the specifics of how they
falsified the evidence?
>> Jeremy spoke about it. They created a
fake force drawing and I have the text
messages and so does multiple people
have all the evidence to prove this
happened. And I called out ODNI
>> because you drew things for them and
they created another
>> that per ODNI per DIG who leaked
classified information and medical
records to journalists Jeremy Corbell
and George Knap.
Per them
per the guy who called him committing a
felony. He said, "I created a fourth
drawing I never created." And I said, "I
want to come in and see it." And I was
ghosted.
>> So crazy, man.
>> And here's the kicker. Ready?
>> That fourth drawing they're claiming I
made. The problem is is, and I have it,
the fourth drawing they're claiming I
made contradicts what is in the arrow
report. And I called them out on and
said, "You realize you're contradicting
yourself." Not only did I make not make
a for drawing by definition and uh
classification,
you are literally admitting to me right
now this never happened because verbally
in the classification guidance and at
the beginning of paragraphs you'll have
like secret no for TS no for
what they said I made the fordrawing of
is in writing in text
not classified what they for claiming I
drew.
>> Oh, well, there you go. So, you have
evidence that not only are they, you
know, acting in bad faith, but they're
incompetent. And um I mean the other
thing that's so crazy about this and
again this is coming from Jeremy is he's
talking about them you know saying that
like a hieroglyphic could possibly
>> wild classified which is like
>> how could you ever you know say that
somebody's committing treason for
drawing a hieroglyphic while
simultaneously saying that the whole UFO
program is fake.
>> Where would the hieroglyphic be like
>> hypothetically on a UFO? That is per
Jeremy with what was leaked to him
illegally by ODNI dig. I can't tell you
if that's true. What I'll tell you is
back to Tim Phillips saying Dylan drew
two drawings and there was a
classification guidance and it was
wrapped into a special access program.
Where's the security classification guy
to hypothetically classify that if it
was true? These are the questions people
should be asking our government. Yeah,
that's absolutely
hypothetically. Yeah, you know,
classifying a hieroglyphic while
simultaneously saying all of this stuff
is fake just feels like you are really
talking out of the, you know, two sides
of your mouth there. It's so crazy.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> It's crazy. And then the the other sort
of interesting thing is Jeremy brought
up this guy Chuck McCulla in your guys'
interview. People don't know that Chuck
McCulla used to be the uh intelligence
community inspector general of the
United States.
>> And so the fact that he's, you know,
spoken at Seoul and he's getting
involved in UFO stuff and helping, you
know, Jeremy and George out in certain
situations.
Obviously, you know, that shows that
he's confident that this whole subject
is real. Why would he move from, you
know, multi many years at the NSA, you
know, many years, you know, at the
highest levels of intelligence to, you
know, representing these guys when it
comes to the UFO topic if he thought
that this was all fake.
>> Yeah, I I fully agree. And then right
back to what Jeremy said with my
interview when all these felonies were
committed against whistleblowers in the
last year when Chuck McCull is on the
phone with you and saying, "Well, they
did it. The whistleblowers didn't
legally you are allowed to say this.
>> What does that say? What does that say
about our nation? This is why like
everybody wants to make this about
extraterrestrials. This isn't
extraterrestrials. It never was about
extraterrestrials. This is about the
foundation of our constitution.
>> It's about both and valid valid
extraterrestrials loosely.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, the problem I think
with the whole quote unquote
extraterrestrials thing is it's what
Arrow uses as like a a straw man sort of
fall guy. When you use the word
extraterrestrial, that's an analytical
overlay. It's a conclusion that you're
making based on an underlying data set,
which is actually, you know, hard to
jump to conclusions on. We don't have
definitive evidence that they're from
other planets, but we have definitive
evidence that we didn't create these
anomalous materials. You know, you have
again maybe some biologics, all these
things. Fully agreed. And you notice our
government has never denied that second
portion. They have only denied we have
no evidence of extraterrestrials.
>> Yes. Okay. So, you got really messed
with by Arrow and by, you know, OD and I
want to talk about this next saga of
you're going to the VA
>> and that goes all the way back to
Langley and that goes back to when I was
working at BAE.
>> Okay. So, let's hear about this. You
know, like I said, uh they were doing
some really weird stuff. Uh I turned
over the
>> mind control stuff.
>> I don't want to say mind control. I want
to be again to be fair. Uh
>> what happened to you?
>> I mean a lot of stuff. Basically, the
easiest way to say it with them is I got
out of the Air Force and I witnessed a
suicide. Um dude drowned, multiple
witnesses. I have the police report. I
can literally pull out my phone, show
you. I sent it to ODNI with the police
report. I have the voicemail from the
police on my phone. I can play it for
you. I have the medical records. But
basically what had happened was I got
out of the military and the VA denied I
ever did the job I did and said none of
this ever happened, Dylan. You never did
the job you did. Which contradicts my
EPR cuz I had my enlisted performance
review proving I was doing the job I was
doing. And the VA said I made that up,
too. And that's all my medical records
provable. Um,
but long story short, uh, witnesses
suicide, police came, Pittsburgh search
and rescue came, they had to pull the
body out of the river. Nightmare, dude.
Um, but they had denied all of it
happening. And then while I'm at the VA,
uh, they tell me, "Oh, uh, you need to
go into this PTSD program, which I'm not
allowed to go. I'm not allowed to
collect." So, the way the VA works is if
you have a disability, you have a
financial and medical incentive to help
you with it. So, the VA is treating me
for it while also denying me the medical
and financial aspect of it. And they put
me in this weird program back in 2016,
2017 where they're flashing images and
air horns. I'm counting backwards from
100 from 100 by seven. Wild stuff, dude.
To this day, I still don't know what it
was about. Um, but just that crap and my
medical records is just full of insane
stuff and I have all of them. Um,
doctors had quit over it. I know one of
the doctors filed a complaint. He was
told to leave this insane stuff.
>> What sort of testing are they doing on
you?
>> So, at that point in time in 2016 2017,
I would go in and get hooked up to a
pressure cuff. It was a polygraph. They
would put the brain things on my brain,
put me up to a pressure cuff, heartbeat
my It was a polygraph. And then uh I
would sit in a room in the back. There
was the female doctor who was CIA. She
was confirmed CIA. Uh and then they had
a dude with an air horn who claimed he
was an old retired Army Ranger.
>> How do you know she was CIA?
>> She admitted it to me.
>> Okay. Um, she actually, how I know is
because
she knew what I was doing for BAE and
knew specifically where I worked and
told me. Whoa. So, uh, while that's
happening, I'm in there and they're just
I I for an hour a day I have to go in,
uh, twice a week and they're I get
hooked up to this polygraph machine and
there's a computer and they're just
flashing images. It's like a butterfly,
kid with a gun, car explosion, bunny
rabbit. I have to count backwards from
100 by 7. And if I went 193, 86, instead
of saying 7978, the air horn would go
off and I would have to restart and they
would restart the flashing images.
>> What dude?
Swear to God.
>> So weird.
>> I again, I don't know.
>> What else? What are other examples?
That's insane.
>> I mean, that that's the biggest one. And
then they put me on those meds that made
me suicidal and that's why my first
doctor quit. The the psychiatrist quit.
>> So they put you on meds that you're
convinced
>> I know suicidal thought
>> 100% it is documented that is why the
doctor quit. This is why I stopped going
to the VA.
>> What what was the medication?
>> Some SSRIs.
>> And do you think that that was intended?
>> I do. Yes.
>> Because SSRIs I look I'm very anti- SSRI
myself but I know people who are like
And if it helps, all the power to all
the power.
>> So I all I'm saying is how do you know
that the intention on
>> because I never had a suicidal thought
in my life and then all of a sudden
after like 2 months of taking them I
would wake up in the middle of the night
and be like oh like you know how you're
thirsty. This is how I explained it.
Like you wake up and you're thirsty. You
need to go to the bathroom.
>> I had a physical response after two
months of taking them having never had
this in my life. And my physical
response was commit suicide. Was this a
generic SSRI or was it some unique
>> I if you want an answer to it, I'll pull
my medical records. I will tell you all
the meds I've been on.
>> Well, I'm just I'm curious as to how
intentional that was because I do think
that is can be a side effect. you know,
the the SSRI thing. And then I'm
wondering,
>> you know, if they were trying to mess
with you and that was a big part of
messing with you or if SSRI is just
generally make you more impressionable
and kind of softer and plate you.
>> But but again, look at this in context
of everything that's happening. I'm
working with BAE with a full scope poly
doing the job I'm doing at BAE at the
location I'm doing it. I'm in this
weirdass program. They're putting me on
these meds. They're denying I ever did
the job I
>> You say you were depressed? Like, why
did they give you the SSRI at all?
>> Because they said I have PTSD, but they
said I have PTSD for a job that they're
claiming I never did. That's the
problem. That whole thing, it's all in
my medical records.
>> So, they claimed you didn't do the drone
operator job or
>> they claimed that I was They claimed
that I never did imagery for drones with
the Air Force.
>> Why were they claiming that?
>> The if I know, Jesse? This is my
problem. So they were like gaslighting
you, saying you have PTSD, take this
pill, but
>> and go into this weirdass program. Yes.
>> And what was the program
>> that this whole thing with these
flashing images, MRIs constantly, all of
it. And meanwhile, they're denying all
of my VA benefits.
>> What else do you remember from that?
MRIs.
>> It just me I I'm being told by the
doctors, hey, we messed up, but you have
to do all this to get your benefits. And
oh, you bought a house. If you don't do
it, we're going to withdraw your VA
benefits for your home loan.
>> And I'm just going through it while
working for the government, doing
everything I'm do, trusting the system.
>> Counting backwards from 100 going by
seven each time and having images
flashing in front of you is weird. And I
don't quite understand how you justify
that in some conventional medical, you
know, uh, you know, this is some sort of
checkup context. So, what else did you
experience?
>> I mean, that was it, man. Like, they put
me in these weird programs. They were
constantly having to go and get MRIs.
They were constantly having me meet with
a therapist.
>> Were they giving you any sort of extra
sensory perception or presentiment tests
like what's under this card or?
>> No.
>> Okay. Not at all.
>> Like that.
>> But they were there were weird
experiments being done
>> there. That whole thing is odd because
this goes back to intent.
>> Mhm.
>> If you're going to put me in a treatment
program, then you have to acknowledge
that I need the treatment, meaning I
have it. and they were denying that I
had it. So why I'm in a treatment
program when you're saying it doesn't
exist?
>> Any any other details you remember from
that?
>> No, it was just I'm going up there
working for BAE doing all this crazy
and everybody's like you don't
exist. None of this happened, but uh you
need to come here or we'll pull your
house loan and you'll never get your
benefits and treatment. It was bananas,
dude.
>> So strange. Do you look back at that
period and think or speculate about some
ulterior motive behind that medical
exam?
>> I mean, I do cuz I learned enough now.
Um, but again, here's the irony is going
back to this whole subject.
>> Well, what do you think it was?
>> I play the fifth. I I don't want to get
into it because I know enough and then
we're going to get into people's names
and programs and things that are out
there.
>> But do you think it was like adjacent to
something that we all know like MK Ultra
like some mind control? I
>> I think it was adjacent to something
that our government has been studying
and this goes back to me having a
process with the Navy and them talking
about my UFO experience at Langley. I
whatever that all is, it was all
connected. Um,
now I'm not saying they did it because
of it. I know it was connected. There's
no doubt in my mind. Um,
>> so you think they were systematically
testing experiencers?
>> Well, that's documented. You have the
leaked phone call with Green and K.
Randall, what's her name?
>> K. Randall May.
>> K. Randall. have that leaked phone call
where they are literally saying we are
testing veterans, military, government
officials who have had experiences and
in their own words, hybrids. I want to
be clear here. This is not me saying it.
That is them saying it in 2017 while I'm
going through this that's happening. And
I want to be very clear and very fair.
I'm not saying everything I encountered
is because of my sighting, but
everything I encountered happened. And
Kit Green ran the CIA's Weird Desk and
uh this very sort of mysterious
>> him and put Off and Homeboy over in
Israel, the remote viewer dude. They're
all referencing that leak phone call.
Yeah.
>> Who's the in Israel the remote viewer?
>> Yuri Geller. Yeah. They name him by
name. They want to put him in MRIs. They
want to remote view him while he's in
the MRIs. All of it. Hm. And do you know
that this turned into some sort of
formal program or not? No idea.
Interesting.
>> H.
>> Yeah.
>> Crazy. Did you ever have any contact
with that CIA doctor after that?
>> In fact, well, this goes back after I
left the IG and now right back to
Vanguard again. Uh, when the IG stuff
went down, I had called the staffer, the
attorney. I was like, "Dude, you got to
get us help. This is insane. Like you're
telling me this is all true, that
everything that happened that I said is
true. I'm never allowed to talk about my
childhood. Like what am I supposed to do
with my life? And they had said, "Uh,
well, you know, Dylan, you have VA
benefits. Go up there and talk to them."
And I was like, I'm not going to the
doctors who did this to me. They still
work there. I'm not doing it. Um,
so basically, I take no meds. I use
nicotine and uh I do my own thing. I
don't do drugs. I I don't even take CBD.
I take nothing. And uh luckily I have
good friends like you and Jeremy and
George and other people I met with
Oregon and contact and the other
whistleblowers and we're all kind of
using each other as therapists to get
through this until disclosure happens
and we get justice. But you've
experienced all sorts of uh targeting
and reprisals beyond, you know, even
just that. Your brake lines were cut and
you've experienced.
>> So, per the police, stalking, not so
much. Uh but per the police, yes, my
brake lines were cut 100%.
>> And what what happened there?
>> Nothing. I was out. It was right after I
left BAE. I got a phone call from
somebody I worked with at BAE, invited
me out. He disappeared for an hour. He
comes back and he's like, "Hey, I'm
going to go. You want to go?" I get in
my car and my my car wrecks. I have a
police investigation. I call them. I'm
like, "Come pick me up. Do a
breathalyzer. Blood work me." I go
through the whole process. They come
back 3 days later and they're like, "Yo,
your brake lines were cut." It happened.
>> Do you have like a dead man switch given
all the information?
>> Yeah, of course. I I said it in
weaponized. I told the very first
conversation I had with Jeremy. I said,
"Jeremy, I don't know you. You don't
know me. I'm going to go become a
congressional whistleblower. If anything
happens to me,
I will have my dead man switch
triggered. I'm telling you it's true.
Yeah, of course I do.
Do you think that in UFO Legacy context
people can call in Craft with their
minds?
>> I think that Okay, so now we're going to
get into the fun hypotheticals. Um, I do
believe remote viewing is true. I do
believe in prophetic dreams. I do
believe in consciousness projection. You
know, we talked about this. Everybody
who knows me knows why I avoid the woo.
And the reason why I really avoid the
woo is because I'm already fighting
enough on stuff I've already proved
behind the scenes. Provable. Um, yeah,
of course. I believe that's true. The
problem I have is I think people have
pushed best what is true to something
that isn't so they can diminish what the
truth is. Interesting. Yeah. So, there
are ways to stigmatize the truth by
getting
>> Exactly. That's a
>> 100%.
>> But you do you think people can call in
UFOs with their mind?
>> I think they can connect to them.
Absolutely.
>> Yeah.
>> My issue is is that I think you can
connect to them. I think it's true. But
my issue is is
if you can connect to them and
communicate to them, bring them within
50 ft. Have them land.
>> Like do that instead of having lights
200 miles out.
>> Mhm.
>> Bring them in. M
>> if you're communicating, if you're in
touch with source and all this new age
stuff, bring them in.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know what I mean?
>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um
do you think what you saw was non-human
or ours? And that's a
>> hanger. I know for a fact it was not
humanmade and not ours.
>> How do you know for a fact?
>> Because Arrow proved it when they listed
it as unclassified and then classified
the other drawings dealing with
unidentified unknown origin drawings and
technologies. But if it was ours, they
would have classified it and they
didn't.
>> Okay. Yeah, fair enough. And even if you
don't trust them and you think they're
bad faith actors, they still would
extensions.
>> So here we go back to intent. I I view
everything from intent.
>> Mhm.
>> Why go and classify the other stuff and
not classify that?
>> Yeah. No, it doesn't make sense.
>> There we go. I mean, unless it was like
we they know that they've lost all trust
and so the 40 chess game would be to not
classify because they know that we'd
talk about it as if it was, you know,
definitely not human when in fact it was
ours.
>> Here we go back to earlier when you were
talking about 4K videos and bodies and
everything. I I know for a fact there
are cell phone videos of triangles.
Undeniable. End of discussion. Ends all
conversation. The reports are there. It
is there.
So they're not that they won't release
those videos.
>> Sure. Got it.
>> So you get what I'm saying?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So those inherently if you
saw one of those they would have to be
classified.
>> And now now you get into the fun too
which is hypothetically uh we have
imagery satellites around the world.
Hypothetically we're seeing other
countries with the same stuff over their
sites. You go again. I I know Arrow
would have if I walked in there and
started talking about a ninth gen
airplane that's being tested, they would
have classified immediately. This goes
back to by law what Arrow. Arrow had no
original classification authority. They
had to go to the IC and go to private
companies and say, "Hey, this is what
they said. What is the classification
per your guidance?" So all of those
places based off of my testimony would
have been documented by them with a
classification guidance saying that was
one of our classify it. It didn't do it.
>> Do you think there are any
non-governmental
transnational
organizations that deal with UFOs? You
do 100. Yes, I do.
>> And do you have any sense of who these
organizations are?
>> I have ideas, but I don't want to get
into it. Again, it's hypothesis, you I'm
very I like I keep saying I'm looking at
this from a fact perspective trying to
find answers myself but I think all of
us would be naive like we talked about
last night which is
there has to be some type of agreement
minimally globally if not with whatever
we're encountering because China and
Russia could blow up America's spot. We
talk about Operation Midnight Climax. We
talk about all this. You look at social
media manipulation.
China or Russia could literally
embarrass the US with what they know on
this and they don't do it. So now back
to intent why so there has to be some
type of transnational agreements
organizations has to be
>> and some kind of agreement between all
terrestrial governments amongst
themselves and maybe with the nonhuman
intelligence as well.
>> First section I fully agree with. Second
section I'm 99.9% sure. I don't want to
go there because I can't tell you it's
100% true. I'm pretty sure it's true.
Man,
>> you said you think that UFO abductions,
alien experiences, you know, people kind
of being able to see beyond the veil a
little bit and make contact runs in
families.
>> Yeah, genetics. I I I do believe that.
But here we go. I'm glad you bring up
this back to the Kona Blue documents.
So, uh when were the Kona Blue documents
uh made originally? Not the E-Class.
What was that? 10 years ago.
>> 200 I thought it was late or earlier
than that.
>> Okay, that No, that makes it even
better. Okay, so hypothetically back to
Kona Blue and remote viewing and all
this stuff. In those documents, the
United States government is admitting
they have the capability to give you
false memories, mess with your brain,
make you do things, and that's without
drugs. They're saying the capability is
now presently available, not just for
the US, but for others. And I hate to
break it to people. Um the technology
that we're all using the public sector
that's been done years ago in the p in
the IC DARPA, IRPA, the rest of them. Um
one of the things again that I'm trying
to figure out is
if you have an experience, and this goes
back to discernment and back to
consciousness. Well, hypothetically, if
the CIA is able to manipulate your brain
while you're sleeping and play with your
brain, how do you know it's the CIA and
not an NHI? And oh, by the way, Russia
and China are now able to do it and oh
by the way, this was a private company.
How how do you go and unpack that? Yeah,
it's an extremely complicated topic
because you have three
known things that humans have looked
into. Anti-gravity propulsion or gravity
manipulation, whatever you want to call
it, MK Ultra or mind control. And then
the third thing would be directed
energy.
>> Yep.
>> And you have all these things and all of
these things are really hard to
attribute in a terrestrial context. You
know, only up until the last couple of
years has the intelligence community,
people from the CIA and NSA started to
say that Russia and microwave weaponry
is responsible for this Havana syndrome
and vestibular destabilization that a
lot of, you know, diplomats have
experienced all over the world. You have
a really interesting book called The
Controllers by a guy named Martin
Cannon.
He talks about how um MK Ultra was used
or the alien abduction thing was used as
a smoke screen for MK Ultra.
>> I believe that.
>> And so I'm sure that you know and that
doesn't make the the abduction thing not
true. You know, in fact, it makes it
more likely that there is an underlying
reality to that and that's why it's a
good smoke screen in in certain
contexts. And then you have
anti-gravity, you know, propulsion, you
know, people like Thomas Townsen Brown
who I'm as high conviction in in
anything when it comes to this story.
And it seems like that's how the crafts
fly. So, it's an extremely
convoluted and complicated landscape
where you never know what you're looking
at.
>> Yeah. I you know, I think, you know,
let's let's have the fun. We talked
about the car scenario. The first
conversation I had with you was about
this. You and I went over this. I was
like, Jesse, I think it's everything and
stuff we still don't understand or know.
Like, all of this can be true and I
believe it all is true. M.
>> And the problem is is that my opinion is
the reason they're keeping this a secret
is because so criminal, so messed up, so
much money.
>> Yeah.
>> It is embarrassing. And then this goes
back to legalities, right? Back to ODNI
and what they did to us. Those are
felonies. But by law, you have executive
orders. I wish I could name it off the
top of my head right now, but I had to
do security. Everybody in the
intelligence community has to do
training every year on the classified
system. And the system, the law
literally is you cannot classify
information for embarrassment, criminal
activity, and financials. They're doing
it. It's happening for So, I brought
this up. George Knap under oath in front
of Congress, which can be used as
evidence with the Securities Exchange
Commission, literally said Lohee Martin
had a craft. They were going to sell it
to Bigalow. And Glenn Gaffne with the
CIA stepped in. I have confirmed on the
record that Robert Bigalow and a trusted
colleague from OAP met with and
negotiated with senior executives at
Lheed Martin and hammered out a deal
wherein Bigalow's company Bass would
receive a quantity of unusual material
that had been stashed away and protected
at a facility in California. That
material was not made here.
>> Um, are any of you willing to name
specific gatekeepers within the root
cell of the UAP SAP Federation? I have a
name for you.
>> Go ahead.
>> Glenn Gaffne, CIA.
>> Glen Gaffffne, CIA.
>> Where are the attorneys to sue Lohee
Morton with the Securities Exchange
Commission?
>> I don't know.
>> Okay, so now here we go. Even Even if
the attorneys go and sue and you want to
say it's a classified law, well, guess
what? You just admitted they had a
craft,
>> right?
>> So where is it?
>> Where is everybody in this? You You
wanted whistleblowers. We came out. We
stuck our necks out. He threw caution to
the wind in service for God family
country. And here we are. Dave's Dave's
hands are tied behind his back up in
Congress. Berles and Luna and Moscowitz.
Everybody's trying to do this. Where is
everybody? Well, that's what uh strikes
me most about this whole topic is it
almost feels like there's like a
paranormal or parasychological control
mechanism around not letting this stuff
out. Because if you think about it, if
the claim is that, you know, the US
government has a multigenerational crash
retrieval program, we have saucers or if
not saucers, parts of saucers and and
other, you know, geometries, triangles
or whatever in hangers,
>> bodies, you know, all these things,
right? Um then the interesting question
to me is like how come
very few smoking guns end up rising to
the top in the age of social media and
smartphones in the open source context.
And there are easy answers to that where
it's like okay only a few crashes have
happened. it really seems like it's this
directed energy plus nuclear thing and
so it's all kind of you know
concentrated in certain areas but I
think there are crashes outside of that
as well and like so so
you get into this weird thing where it's
like are the is the non-human
intelligence in control of the cover up
too
>> my opinion
>> absolutely yes
>> have you ever talked to anybody in a
credible position in the government who
seems to have hinted
that humans aren't in charge.
>> The ICI did it with me personally. I I
want to respect them, but the ICI did it
with me. Yes.
>> So, the intelligence community inspector
general told you that humans are not in
charge.
>> They extremely hinted at it. Yes.
>> Holy
That is crazy.
>> They They hinted at it. Yes.
>> That is That is insane. That's insane.
And then and then you think of the fact
that um you know Chuck McCulla is
involved in this topic and really
helping out on the whistleblower side
and he was the first intelligence
community inspector general.
>> Chuck is a beast and I think we talked
about this last night. You know I have
nothing but respect for everybody who
gives a damn about our nation and who
cares to uh serve it. God family. Dude,
that is wild that the intelligence
community inspector general in this role
is basically the judiciary for the
intelligence committee, right?
>> They are. But keep in mind, yeah, that's
the IC, not the CIA, not the OA.
>> You got to remember those are separate
IG's just like the DoD IG is separate.
>> So, what would the IC be privy to that
might allow them to say with authority
that humans aren't in charge of the
government? I again I want to be very
careful and very respectful. This goes
back if you listen to the weapon. See
again I'm Jeremy and George and I and
Matt all of us all of us have said
things and laid groundwork for years to
come because we have no idea. We could
die tomorrow. So we're all trying to get
this out and have a baseline and be
respectful and not go crazy like I'm
partying with aliens in Washington DC
crap. Um, what I said and weaponized was
you can tell somebody knows something
based on the questions they ask you. You
respond and the next question they ask
you is very telling. So, hypothetically,
Jesse, let's say, let's say you ask me a
question and I say, "Yeah, I've seen uh
gray beings, traditional grays."
If I said that to you, your next
question is be like, "When, where, how?"
Hypothetically speaking, let's say I say
that and your next question is, "Well,
where did they come from?" And then I
respond, "Well, you know, I I don't have
an answer. I think they've been here a
long time." And the very next statement
is, "Well, who do you think is running
this show?"
Hypothetically, let's say that happened.
That's wild. That is so crazy. And it's
especially crazy given that, you know,
David Grush gave them all sorts of
documentation from his experience on the
UAP task force where he looked
comprehensively
>> with 40 witnesses. Let's let's be clear.
Dave brought 40 witnesses
>> who were on the program
>> and Matt and I were not a part of that.
Lou was not a part of that to the best
of my knowledge. Straten, Latsky, the
this whole list.
>> And they called his his complaint urgent
incredible.
>> They did.
>> And so they're calling his complaint
urgent incredible. They're telling
hypothetically, they're saying, "Who do
you think is running the show,
which is wild?" Um, this brings me to
another question. You're close with
Matthew Brown.
>> I am. I love that. who's really
interesting, fascinating case and seems
like a very deep thinker and another guy
who's very earnest who got totally
screwed with and there all sorts of
reprisals, you know, things that I think
at one point people called him
>> super anti-semitic like these one of
these government agents and I dig. Okay,
so they called them OD and I dig again
and he said something very interesting
on um weaponized. He said that humans
are a resource.
>> Well, that's this gets into religion and
theology. So, I want to be very,
you know, we talked about this. I want
to tell
>> But do you have any evidence to believe
that humans might be a resource?
>> I don't, but this goes So, again, you
want to have fun, let's have some fun.
What we talked about. So,
let's go here. Uh, we brought up I
brought up the hypothetical. Again, I'm
not saying this is true and this isn't
like hypothetically. This is a real
hypothetical. Let's say that you and I
have a soul. Uh, we die. And based off
of current human humanity, you have
Neurolink, you have crisper, you have
all of these technologies. Like we
discussed 100 years ago, humans compared
to today are the same. In 100 years, you
can genetically modify a human to be 190
IQ, 6'7, dunking a basketball that's 12t
high, connected to Neuralink,
controlling uh radios and stuff with
your mind. Like that technology exists
now. It exists now. it can be done. Um,
last night we discussed, and this goes
back to the UFO subject, hypothetically,
if we have that technology now, between
robotics and AI, you don't really need
humans. So, if you're an advanced
civilization and you're able to do this
and you're a thousand years ahead of us,
well, there's a theory what we discussed
as a hypothetical. You would want to
create a entity and a testing program to
operate in shades of gray to know who
you are at your soul, at your heart. And
when we die is like, okay, this person
has these characteristics, they can fill
in. And then, oh, by the way, because
we're monitoring humans here because we
are humans at a soul level, just in the
afterlife. I bring all that up. I have
never seen evidence for it. Again, I'm a
Catholic, so I believe in saintthood. I
I I make no declaration on goes to
heaven or hell. I make a de declaration
on I want to be a saint. Um Matt and I
have had deep theological discussions
over many years. We do it all the time.
Um I know where Matt comes from. And
then you get innostic Christianity and
the African churches and early Judaism
and all of it and Book of Enoch, which
people really need to understand why
that was left out of the Bible and the
Catholic Church's stance on it and
Judaism stance on it, but uh I've never
seen it. I mean, you're getting into a
conversation that would be 5 hours,
Jesse, on theological. Do you think that
the book of Enoch holds any truth where
>> I absolutely do
>> the watchers came downated
with man and created demigod nephilim?
>> I'm not going to make a declaration on
that. What I will say is this. I am a
Catholic per Catholic teaching per
Malachi Martin who was one of the per
first people to read the Dead Sea
Scrolls. The Catholic teaching is the
book of Enoch and basically the
Apocrypha.
The reason it was excluded is not
because it's false. It wasn't because it
wasn't 100% true.
>> Their teaching is is that you have to be
100% true to be canon.
>> And because those books were not 100%
true, it doesn't mean that there isn't
truth in there. In fact, they say
there's truth in there.
>> It's just certain things were not 100%
true.
>> Well, I don't know. It's kind of funny.
Feels like an arbitrary dividing line. I
mean, the New Testament is very
supernatural itself.
>> I don't disagree, man. And and then you
get into the dudero cannon and people
understand this is the division between
Protestants and Catholics and why the
King James Bible took out the dudero
cannon and mcabes. It's it's a whole
thing. This is like you and I could do
three episodes on theology of the Bible.
>> Well, it it is really fascinating. So,
if you combine a couple of arguments
that seem hard to argue with, you end up
in a very weird onlogical place about
how reality works. And so, I'm going to
give you the two arguments. One is that
it's most likely that we are not living
in base reality. You've heard Elon Musk
say this. Nick Bostonramm, this famous
Oxford philosopher is, you know,
famously discussed that we're in this
simulation and that's likely why because
we're creating simulations now. So, we
are likely the product of a simulation.
It's very easy to understand and
honestly it's kind of hard to argue
with. So, you take that at face value.
Then you take something else at face
value which is the uh progression of
technology and the idea of technology as
a a forcing function for good and evil.
Yes.
>> So technology is you know the history of
tech is the history of humans gaining
lower latency higher bandwidth powers to
manipulate reality. And so what you end
up with logically this is logically is
the ability for a kid to blow up the
world from his bedroom.
>> Yes. And you see it now. You see it now.
our generation. We grew up with the
internet. Jesse, this is one of the
things real quick. I don't mean to cut
you off again. We need to rethink
everything we understand. I grew up when
YouTube started to become known. I can
go and go and get a PhD all but
dissertation. So, PhD ABD right now. I
can go through all the Harvard classes
on multiple degrees. I'm not paying it.
The the professors are putting it out
there. I can literally get all these
engineering degrees, physics degrees,
it's out there. And oh, by the way, AI
is out there. And if you know how to
manipulate it, what you just said is
true. And if you're a 13-year-old kid
that's 170 IQ, you can literally, if you
have the time and the intelligence, you
can create everything around you and
have 50 years ago, 100 years ago, what
Einstein took 25 years to do.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> At your fingertips.
>> Yeah. because I mean the internet is a
very wide search space and it's a
there's a lot of information you know
there and when it comes to combination
when it comes to consilience and interd
domain insights like turning you know
fire to electricity or a horse to a car
that still requires human innovation
>> but when it comes to combination and
search problems large language models
transformers are amazing at them they're
so much faster than humans and so if you
are on one these things and you're
talking about, you know, create some
offtheshelf nerve agent or, you know,
create some, you know, new pandemic and
these are the variables or whatever.
This is freaky freaky but this is
this is happening. Okay. So, so my point
is so you take the Nick Bostonramm
simulation stuff, you take the fact that
we, you know, technology is is in, you
know, exponentially uh progressing and
and progressing in in humans ability to
like do destructive in the world,
>> but also really good stuff too. And so
you know it's this forcing function like
I said then you end up with this sort of
okay we are in a simulation that is a
testing ground which doveetales with all
religions
>> and we are being tested based on virtues
you know
patience you know goodness you know love
of course
>> you know all all of these things and if
you pass the test then you end up either
in the kingdom of heaven or hell. And
you could actually instant instantiate
the kingdom of heaven or hell as you
know heaven is this place where tech is
used for like infinite abundance and
then hell is this place where it's used
for like infinite constant destruction.
And so you you end up with this like
crazy forcing function in the afterlife
if you literally just take those two
things at face value which are very hard
to logically argue with.
>> Fully agreed. Applause.
>> Fully agree. And and then you go read
Plato and you're like, who are the
guardians? And why are we in a cave? And
why are select people being dragged out
of the cave into the light? And then why
is the light blinding and painful, you
know, but also enlightening on some
level? Like it kind of sounds like
you're being dragged into that into that
wider, you know, possibility space.
>> My opinion is fully agreed. This is why
again like
I am one
there are I I know things for a fact. In
fact, I'm going to say this and people
behind the scenes and this is going to
resonate. I'm actually choking up about
to say this. Keep loving your heart. Be
a good person. Tell the truth. What you
do here matters. You're an eternal being
who lives forever. It's up to you. I
know those things are true.
>> Speaking of which, tell me about Paul
Thigpen and what he meant to you.
>> He was a saint.
I miss him every day.
>> And who was he?
>> Uh he was a Catholic PhD. He was a great
man. I'm going to cry. I am
crying. Okay. Um
>> you know, he uh he was he was more into
like new age mysticism and stuff as a
kid. I think that's fair to say. And uh
he uh he encountered this stuff, the woo
and everything else. And uh the woo led
him to search for truth. He found his
way into Catholicism.
And just like me, he never told anybody
like it is your job to convert. It's
it's I love you. I will do anything for
you. Be a better person. Um damn Jesse,
you hit me hard, man. Um
he he means the world to me. I miss him
every day.
>> And he was one of these amazing thinkers
who I think he thought about UFOs in the
religious context, but he wasn't also a
proitizer. He wasn't sort of an
evangelist of his own views. He would
just was I think a very deeply
thoughtful thoughtful guy and uh you
know wasn't
>> wasn't very shrill. you often we're we
have an abundance of shrillness and and
you have in the UFO conversation where
people are so sure of themselves and uh
you just seem to really you know inquire
uh earnestly
>> but the truth is for 26 centuries the
best minds so many of the best minds of
western civilization have talked about
this subject and and taken it very
seriously including centuries
>> so all the way back to the ancient Greek
and Roman philosophers and writers
>> yeah it's just a a fas fascinating.
Thank you.
>> Oh, he was awesome. I you know, and
again, one of the lucky things I know is
amongst all you guys, you included, like
I talk to people and I care and I love
them and like thankfully none of you
guys have ever, no one has ever put me
in a position to put me in a situation
where it's like you're going to go to
jail. We talk about the hypotheticals.
Dr. Thigpen
in the time that I knew him would just
be like, "Yo, how are you? How's your
family? How how's Matt? How's Dave? Is
there anything I can do for you? I can't
do much, but what can I do? I'm here for
you. And him and I would into Enoch and
theology. Like, what we would talk about
is for hours every week, we would just
laugh and just talk crap and just joke
with each other and just go over all
these arguments and just be like, "Okay,
well, also keep in mind this happened
with this culture." And he
>> What did he think these beings were? I
think the same thing I do, which is a
combination of everything. I I think
spiritual uh
I hate to call him extraterrestrial.
I've never seen evidence for it, but a
combination of everything, which is
probably what it is.
>> Um
>> how did he connect that with, you know,
angels, demons, other beings from
ancient texts?
>> I mean, for him and I, I think, you
know, I don't want to get into that
personally. There's there's an event
that happened in my life to make me
Catholic. Uh I think the same thing
happened with him. It happens with
people. And uh
when that when when you have something
like that happen, it's like I don't want
to call it ontological shock. We were
talking about you being allowed to go in
and see a craft with your own two eyes
that wasn't made by humans. Now you
know.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean I think you know already, but if
you saw with your own two eyes, you
know.
>> Oh yeah.
>> So now in your life, you're going to
say, "I know for a fact this is true."
Yeah,
>> I think that's where he was at with it,
just like I am and others. Do you think
the NASA Do you think the UFO that you
saw wasn't ours but was being housed by
No. No.
>> I think I think it was there and I have
we're going to get into really sticky
situations going back to the Langley Air
Force Base and imagery that I'm aware of
and things, but uh I think that was a uh
I hate to call it this almost like a
task where I just luckily was at the
right place at the right time and saw
them come around to do a uh scan. so to
speak.
>> Matt Brown also said that these UFOs
seem to be made for purpose. Do you
agree with that statement?
>> Yes and no. I mean, the problem is is
the type of technologies we're talking
about when you can do 80,000 of sea
level and then travel 300 miles in a
second, you know, why do you need to
adjust tasking when you can throw
something out? Um, and Matt and I, like
every whistleblower, we're all very
respectful to not cross lines. Matt
knows more than I do on things. Um, no
doubt about it. And I don't want to
know. Um,
maybe he knows something I don't. And
theoretically, it's possible. I just
when you're talking about what we're
talking about with beaming thoughts into
people's heads, appearing anywhere you
want, active camouflage, traveling
30,000 ft in two seconds. Um,
why why change dimensions? Why change
shapes? Why do all that?
>> You know, it's it's like it's like
having a uh
>> oh god, what's the A10? It's like having
an A-10 and an F-22
>> and then you have an aircraft that can
do both with ease.
>> You know what I mean? Like capabilities.
>> But maybe I don't know.
>> Um, why do you think people at the top
of the food chain when it comes to kind
of legacy aerospace rocketry, people
like Elon Musk, deny the UFO truth? And
do you think they know anything more
than what they let on publicly? 100%
they know publicly. I think that Elon
Musk
Elon Musk has a strange thing where he
cites the arrow statement which is
extraterrestrial evidence doesn't exist.
Cool. Elon, what about nonhuman?
>> Yeah.
>> Hypothetically.
>> Yeah. So, he's kind of in the same camp
almost.
>> I don't want to call it a camp. All I'm
saying is is he's saying the same line.
>> Yeah. James Luksky seems to talk along
these lines too of like he talks about
faith and what it means to be human.
>> It does
>> with UFOs. And
so it's it's interesting. It's like
people who walk into that room, they
feel some sort of mental connection with
the object. Often it feels ominous and
dark is what I understand.
>> I don't know. I mean I So very early on
when I came forward, they were very
interested if I had a connection to the
triangle. I said no. Um,
however an event happened,
>> a mental connection.
>> Yeah. Like there was a connection to the
craft
>> and you said no.
>> No, I never had it with it. But I had
something else happen that made me a
Catholic as a kid. Um,
>> can you say what that was?
>> I prefer not to right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, people behind the scenes.
>> Do you feel like it would muddy the
waters if you did?
>> I think it would be unfair and I don't
want to muddy the waters. I'm very much
on a trajectory of I want the truth to
be told. I want this to be done. uh I
share my faith and my theology
perspectives with people respectfully
saying look I'm not telling you this is
the answer this is an answer
>> have you experienced other general
synchronicities in your life
>> 100% yes
>> can you talk about any of those
>> um you know we talked about it the last
thing I did with BAE that really messed
up my language and we can't really
get into that but that kind of stuff I
mean well actually we can like just
weird
weird stuff, man. Like even the whole
nause thing like that happens
>> um conveniently while it's happening in
reality while I'm asleep. But uh
>> you know, I think
>> back to like
>> do you want to tell that story or No,
>> you can. You know, I I put the tweet up
with uh uh rule the world with Nas and
uh you responded with the sample and
while you were responding to that, I was
>> I didn't respond with the sample cuz
that's a Tears for Fear sample. Mine was
great. Yours was
>> I I was like, "Yeah, cuz he there's a
song on Stillmatic called Stillmatic."
Yeah. It's the first song intro.
>> And it's Exactly. It's a Stacy Latisaw
sample, and it's like uh what is it? Let
Me Be Your Angel.
>> Yes.
>> And I love I actually love the original
song, which I found through Nas, of
course, cuz I'm a huge hip-hop head.
>> Same.
>> And so I've commented that on your on
your Twitter. And
>> while you while you were commenting
that, so I wake up at like 2 3:00 a.m.
uh on the East Coast. So I'm up in I go
to bed at 7:00 at night. I'm up at 2 or
3 in the morning doing dishes, chickens,
the whole nine. So I take a nap in the
afternoons every day for like an hour.
And while I'm asleep, I have a dream
about you coming to my house to get
proolone and uh pushcido. It was
pushcido. It was provolone and pushcido.
I only had mozzarella and you and I were
sitting in the living room and we were
BSing about music and I wake up and the
very first thing I see is your response.
Now again, just weird stuff, but that
happened. Um, you know, there's other
weird stuff that has happened too that
is very direct. Like I don't want to
call it prophetic dreaming, but it is.
Um,
>> but you you sense when people are about
to pass.
>> That is true. Yes.
>> That's wild. But they have to be family
or very very very deep friends.
>> And that's so crazy.
>> I believe that's the quantum mechanics.
I think that
>> yeah, you're entangled with them.
>> I do. My soul, your soul is friends or
if significant other family. I think
that the imprint of us changes each
other. And this is I've been hunting
down genetics. So I I think the quantum
entanglement, the human soul and
genetics are all entwined. And I think
that
you are a reflection of not just who you
are genetically, but society. Like, uh,
don't blame me, what the streets made me
stuff, but also who you are genetically
is you.
>> I think that your loved ones and your
friends and significant others, their
soul and their being impacts you. And
once that happens, when they disappear,
cuz I felt it. Uh that part of you that
impacted if you're in touch, you can
sense it when they go to the other side.
And I've seen it. Um yeah,
>> and I don't think I don't even think
that's that woo. You know, there's a a
neuroscientist named Dr. Tara Schwart
who does a lot of work on this and her
husband actually passed under
unfortunate circumstances and then I
think a bunch of doves showed up at her
house and this is like a thing sometimes
people especially who are terminally ill
will come up with like you know give me
the sign that you're going to come y
>> and
>> I I off record I'll tell you some of the
other stuff but it's a thing
>> that's so wild so interesting and uh I
when you told me your synchronicity
around the dream you had about me I told
you
that uh uh you know um it's really
trippy. So my girlfriend's a big Red Hot
Chili Peppers fan. I'm I'm a fan, but
I'm a little more you know casual uh of
a fan of theirs. And um randomly I had a
dream about Flea, the basist, famous
basist texting me
>> and in my mind he was texting me. He was
like, "Hey, we should catch up." I don't
know how I had his number, but like it
was like he was interested in UFOs, you
know? I was like, "Oh, occasionally
celebrities will reach out cuz they're
interested in UFOs." I was like, "Okay,
maybe he's, you know, just one of these
sort of, you know, people or whatever."
And so, uh, I wake up and, uh, my
girlfriend's, you know, in the room and
I'm like, you wouldn't believe it, but
Flea texted me in my dream and she
freaks out and she's like, "No way. What
did you just say?" I said, "Flee texted
me in a dream. You're a Red Hot Chili
Peppers fan." She was like, "I was just
thinking about him on my walk cuz I
wonder I was wondering if he was a UFO
into UFOs."
>> It's consciousness, man. I mean, they're
they're again, what concerns me is with
this field and with remote viewing and
knowing the CIA. Um, they have a
tendency to take the truth, extrapolate
it to insane circumstances publicly to
diminish the truth, and they just go
full into town. But it's a thing, dude.
This is very real.
>> Well, the the issue with talking about
mind control stuff is you you it's
impossible to end the implications of
that because
>> I know
>> if you can replace false memories with
real ones and then the person can never
know what was what's real and what's
false, which is true. A neuroscientist
named Dr. Wilder Penfield who was
involved in early mind control stuff,
you know, shows that this is true in
mice. I'm sure it's true in humans as
well.
>> Yep. You have all sorts of Mandela
effects where people sort of remember,
you know, different pasts. You know, the
famous one being, you know, a lot some
people in South Africa remember Mandela
in jail in the '90s.
>> There's no end to that conversation
because then you end up with, especially
where there isn't physical evidence
involved, literal air pockets of
consensus reality in the past.
>> Yeah. Well, now Jesse, let's get even
crazier. If you accept that time doesn't
exist outside of our reality of it,
which speed and gravity prove that time
can be manipulated. How do we know all
of us aren't just operating in a mind
control right now? And I hate to do it,
but again, I'm I'm looking at things
through what are factual, what can we
prove, what do I know, what is intent.
>> Well, there's no way to prove that
that's not true. And then you go into
ancient stories, you know, in Islam, for
example, of jin where they'll literally
change variables in reality. back back
to my weaponized interview when I said
call them angels, demons or gin
>> and then you and then you look at
interpretation of some of quantum
mechanics and Schroinger saying if you
measure a particle in the present it
changes its past
>> and this idea that a lot of people who
study parasychology by the way elite
universities Princeton Stanford you know
Duke uh they'll come out of these you
know research programs and they'll say
it seems like there's a constricted
present so if you have you know one or a
zero it's usually a one or a zero in the
present, you know, we we've collapsed
the present into some sort of a real
reality and then you have probable
futures and then this is where it always
trips people up but probable past
>> and it's almost like the mind is um
>> like a like a stylus on an LP player
>> and it's choosing a track but all of the
tracks exist coexist all at once. They
do. And then and again like one of the
big things within Catholicism and this
everything in nature is reflected in the
spiritual. So like a big thing is a
concal
>> and you get into this whole thing and
then you think about the universe all of
us are circling around a sun and you
have it happening scientifically but
where are you at in it? And unless you
can scientifically get outside of it to
view it, you have no idea where you're
at while it's happening.
>> Yeah. And it's like our uh it's like
there's like client and server side and
our our minds are like client side. So
I'm talking about computer science now.
And it's almost like you're running a
computation at all times. And so it's
like why does you were mentioning the
spirals, why does the golden ratio and
the Fibonacci sequence show up over and
over again? It's as if we're in some
sort of simulation. If you're building a
computer program, you would reuse the
same code chunks over and over again.
That would be the most efficient way to
build it.
>> And and I think, you know, again, we
again to really not get deep, and I'm
sure a lot of people are going to attack
me for this, but again, to touch on
theology, but again, like we discussed,
almost every religion known to humans uh
more or less believes when you boil down
and this is a simulation.
>> Yes. And so this is what's really crazy.
If you're guarding the simulation, you
are controlling and guarding the exit
paths. And I think about two exit paths.
Consciousness and then extremely high
energy physics. So nuclear high voltage
experimentation, particle accelerators.
>> That's a creative. That's a good one.
>> So and then you get into ideas like
Rubik's cube where uh you're constantly
sort of growing this petri dish that is
humanity. And the way to grow humanity
would be you give people things in the
form of UFOs that break all known
priors. So the the end product is
actually the expanded mind of the human
looking at the thing. It's that's not
incidental. You know, this isn't some
technology for our own instrumental use.
This is literally a thing that breaks
our brains, expands them, and might even
exist uh at the borders of, you know,
stability where like things might start
to like get really crazy all nuclear.
>> These things sort of show up and it's
like you're not in charge
>> and we're going to like mess with you
and you're now going to become obsessed
with this thing.
>> Yeah. You know, Jacqu Valet talks about
that and in fact at Trinity test site in
New Mexico there was a test on July of
1945 and then 20 days later uh you see
this this crash
>> communication could be you think you're
really smart now you know look at this.
So, it's like the UFOs are like these
instruments for social coordination and
cult creation and belief systems. And
that's not unique to society. That also
happens with the government. Of course,
you would you would you would
disproportionately use the government in
that way because they're in charge of a
lot of things.
>> Back to control system. So if you have a
control system on reality and you want
to have it again almost like a pyramid
you want humans will stack things and
leaders and who is more powerful. So if
you have a control system operating our
entire reality well you would have a
control system to control all of us
under it. Back to hypothetically
agreements and then now this is where
this gets real fun. back to time travel
and time dilation and all of this which
is back to the hypothetical which is
well if time doesn't exist are we as
humans in the future manipulating
ourselves to break ourselves to put us
into that position and that goes back to
your interview with Ramsay and Gerb and
it's all on the table dude I don't have
the I I love these conversations because
this is where I'm trying I am trying to
figure out this stuff
>> well I think the reason it hasn't
disclosed is because the number one rule
of intelligence is if you don't
understand something you don't disclose
it but so like these conversations are
essential not only to uh you know life
in my opinion I think it's really
important to think about these things
but like they're essential honestly to
you know even the powers that be like
they are so on they don't understand any
of this stuff so they need to let it out
and they need to let you know
open-source information sort of flow
around these things and we need to be
able to hypothesize and speculate.
>> Yeah, I think these are the most
important conversations. I think if my
whole thing has been I will I believe
people when they've experienced stuff.
My issue is is all I care about is
truth, accountability, restitution, and
right back to Vanguard. Um that's what
I'm after. And I will be there for
everybody and I will be a shoulder to be
there cuz I know this stuff will isolate
you and make you feel lonely. And I
don't want anybody to go through what I
went through or my friends or my family
or the other whistleblowers. But uh
yeah,
>> what do you think the people who worked
at Langley who are trolling Google Maps
and tagging pyramids, labyrinths, all
these things? What do you think they're
thinking? I think I think some of them
are like maybe flirting with it just
like oh like a little signal here and
there like oh check out this like
again all of us all of us have like
trolled so I don't know what they're
doing it's real but uh I think that they
it's just them like joking around with
each other. It could be nothing but I
know it's there. So if you go on Google
Maps and you go to NASA Langley, there
are people who seem to be employed by
intelligence agencies and other
government organizations
that are tagging
>> Google Maps in that region with
labyrinths and pyramids and all sorts of
crazy rocks.
>> So I screenshotted these years ago. So
one of them is this one. And so here's
NASA Langley hypersonic facilities
complex and this is probably 3 years old
and you can see the labyrinth clearly.
>> Oh yeah,
>> it's it's a freaking maze.
>> Yeah.
>> Now I screenshotted this years ago. Now
if we go back over to Google Maps and we
go to NASA Langley right now and you can
see it. You have that photo of the uh
building and right next to it in in
Google Maps is that like you can see it.
It's clearly there. That is a
screenshot. If you go there right now
and pull up the photo, they erase that
photo of that labyrinth and the only
photo attached to the facility is the
facility itself.
>> Can I see Can I see the maze real quick?
Yeah. Cuz that thing looked weird.
>> Whoa.
>> So So again, I'm not saying anything
about I'm just saying that's a real
thing. And somebody erased those
pictures. And I have pictures saved of
these rocks. I have pictures saved of
like pyramids and crap all over the
NASA.
>> Can I see the pyramids and the rocks?
>> I'd have to find it. Uh there's the
rocks and that's one of the dudes who
works there. I want to be careful with
that.
>> Okay.
>> Um but I went and tracked these people
down on LinkedIn and on Facebook and
everything else and they just wild
Like again, she works there for
>> And what is she posting? Look, look at
that.
>> I know.
>> That's like a weird spiral.
>> Wow.
>> But again, all of this has been scrubbed
now. I I was pulling up while we took
our break. All of this has been scrubbed
now.
>> So weird. all of it. Like here's here is
everything. There's a labyrinth. Um
>> it's like codes for the outside world.
>> What is that?
>> It's like a black that black knight UFO
from the 50s.
>> Yeah. And again, like they tagged they
tagged all of this and it's like here we
go. Here's one. Uh there's there's uh
one of the Egyptian pyramid things right
there that's tagged in under that agency
at NASA Langley. They were just tagging
and posting these wild pictures all
over the NASA facility and they work
there years ago and now all these images
were scrubbed. Again, I don't know what
it means. I just know what happened.
>> That is nuts, man. Did you ever meet
anybody while working there where you
were like, you're on some something
trippy. Like you kind of you know more
about reality than
>> um me.
>> My my old tech sergeant who I worked
with who was a load master, he clearly
knew something. He was very adamant.
He's like, "Dylan, I care about you.
Don't talk about this. You will destroy
your life.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. And then when I was at BAE, uh one
of the older guys who uh worked for
archives had a TSSCI and made his way to
the intelligence community as a
government employee. Um he was he knew
way too much and he was the same way.
Like, dude, you got to watch yourself.
They don't want you around.
>> Like I I don't understand. It's like
why are there such harsh kind of
allergic reaction reactions to
>> So the older guy the way he the way he
made it sound was
there are truths that the intelligence
community doesn't even want to
acknowledge and that is one of them that
this subject is one of them.
>> It's like the dirtiest of the dirty
little secrets and they don't want it
out.
>> It's a bummer man. Well, you've turned
this really negative, horrible thing
that's happened to you and your family
into a positive with Vanguard. So, you
have this project with Ma Matthew Brown.
Yep.
>> And it's to protect other
whistleblowers.
>> That was a hope.
>> Um, tell me about the project and and
tell people who are watching this
because hopefully a lot of people watch
this how they can support.
>> Yeah. Uh, you know, um, we have the
website up, the donation page is out
there. We're still trying to keep this a
little DL. You know, we really So, to be
fair, too, and be clear, uh Matt and I
discussed this years ago, there are
multiple people who are supporting this,
other whistleblowers. I don't want to
name them. I want to be respectful, and
if they want to talk, and then there's
civilians. Uh we have an incredible
group of people who are just like, "This
needs to come out. We believe in this.
We want to help." Um, I know Jeff has
recently fully come on board and I think
that's okay to say. Um,
>> Jeff,
>> not to Sully.
>> Okay, nice.
>> So, you know, when we talked to other
whistleblowers, like I said, um, I would
love to name them, but I want to be
respectful. I didn't have her mission.
I'm I'm acknowledging Jeff cuz Jeff said
I'm allin. Um, the idea is to help
whistleblowers and their families
medically, financially, spiritually,
emotionally. Uh, this is traumatic. You
know, you guys, we've we've all talked
about it, journalists and experiencers.
I don't think you make it through this
uh without coming out the other side and
having a little bit of trauma and a
little bit of like what is happening
around me? You know what I mean? So, uh
the idea is we want to work within the
medical community. We want to make sure
people who become whistleblowers and
have been whistleblowers don't lose
their houses, which has happened. They
don't have to move, which has happened.
Um, this isn't some get-richqu scheme.
You know, we're not Michael Shurmer uh
getting paid $30,000 a speech. Um, we
are literally trying to make sure
whistleblowers kids get food. Um,
yeah. And you know, something else I
know in the long run, you know,
hopefully disclosure happens, hopefully
acknowledge this is true, hopefully we
get legislation, hopefully get
restitution in all facets. This isn't
just about money. Like
this when people talk about onlogical
shock, and this is something that Matt
and I and others have been trying to
explain to the scientific community,
especially the medical community, is
this is going to happen. And you have a
group of people with Dave and all his
witnesses and me and Matt and Herrera
and Barber, list them. You have a group
of people who not only are experiencers,
but they also are whistleblowers. If you
want to understand what this does to the
human psyche and how to help humans,
we're the perfect control group. Are we
not? Like, yo, you guys not only
witnessed it and were in this, you guys
also stuck your neck out and said, "I'll
die on the sword. Let's go." So, the
hope is is that we can get this done and
hopefully it leads to disclosure and
hopefully in the interim we exist. But
we really want to help out humanity and
the experiencer community on the back
end because we're trying to help people
dealing with it now while this is taboo.
So that's the idea, man, is just to help
people and hopefully get them jobs and
make sure they can have a safe place and
you know, I'm focusing on the past
whistleblowers now. The future are like,
"Hey guys, if you come forward, we'll
make sure you're protected. Here's what
you need to be aware of. They're going
to dox you. They're going to harass your
family. They're going to pull photos.
So, scrub your internet history. Pay for
this cleaning service. Um, let us know
if you feel safe, who you want to talk
to as a backup plan. Dead man switch.
Basically laying the infrastructure for
anyone to come forward and get them in
touch, especially while Dave is working
with Berles's office. Get them in touch
with people to say, "We went through
this and we went through this when
nobody was around." I mean, this is a
mad house. It's still a wild west now.
At least giving the future people an
opportunity to not go through the BS we
went through. So, that's the idea.
>> I love that mission, man. And, uh, I
hope that, you know, in your quest to
help others, you don't forget about
yourself.
>> I appreciate it.
>> Yeah, cuz you uh you went out on a limb
and you landed in a, you know, a rough
spot and uh I you know, I'm sorry on
behalf of the country. I think it's
really whack given all you went through
and, you know, all the service You're
going to chuck me up, Jesse. So, I
appreciate I love you, man.
>> I love you, too, man. And I mean that.
And uh especially after everything you
went through, to get gas lit on the
service itself, and then to bump into
the UFO stuff and then come out and then
have all and then to testify before
Congress, which should be this sacred
body in taking your information and
acting on it.
>> That you know what's funny is I will let
Jeremy tell that story when the time is
right. Is even that is a crazy story in
and of itself.
>> Interesting. Okay.
>> Crazy story.
>> Well, I look forward to to Jeremy
telling and um man, this is gnarly, but
I I really do hope that you do take care
of yourself because you you did land in
a rough spot. You weren't treated well
by by the country and I know you'll be
vindicated. So, and I think in your
lifetime. So,
>> I I I hope so. I hope all of us are. You
know, I I want to say a couple quick
things is, you know, I love everybody.
It means the world. Choking up thinking
about it. um
organ contact um
friends of mine in the IC, you know,
they they'll come up and be like, "Hey,
you're a hero." Whatever. I'm not. You
know, I think of Dave and Matt and the
rest of these guys.
Like, I did what I had to do. They
created me. That's the irony is
everybody else was like gung-ho. Like,
I'm doing this cuz it's the right thing
to do. And I did the same thing. But for
me it was I have to do this. You created
this problem for me.
>> Yeah. But it's just me out.
>> It's not cool that um you know you're
living in you know a very a place where
it's you know relatively affordable and
inexpensive to live. But every time I
call you, it's like, you know, I'm I'm
getting Chick-fil-A and we're leaving
some leftovers out and you're you're
you're kind of you have you're you're
living very frugally and your wife and
you you have a master's degree are both
extremely qualified and you're in this
like kind of, you know, uh what's the
best way to put it? You're in this
you're in purgatory. Yeah. You're in
>> That's what it is. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean,
>> that that sucks.
>> There's a lot of us in it, you know. I
think only a handful of us who are in
this situation publicly known made our
way into
positions where we are uh employed. Um
the ma the vast majority of the
whistleblowers in the past uh you either
go into this subject and you go full
tilt or you're so and uh this goes back
to me being here and I love it and I'm
so thankful to be here and your audience
and everything. uh you know, I only want
to speak when it's necessary and I have
something to add and I love the fact
that you gave me a platform to add this.
I think all this is important. I wanted
to get out here for Vanguard and trying
to make this work. Um,
you know, it's crazy. It's crazy times
crazy times for sure. And on a on a
light note, I know you're a hip-hop
head. We were just talking about that.
What um who are your top five?
>> Oh, that's easy. Uh, M. Nause Jakus. M.
Nause Jakus. Andre 3000.
>> Wow.
>> Um,
okay. Who do I want to throw for five?
Oh, now we're getting fun. Um,
oh, maybe B run. I don't know. I might
go. I might go like way old school, but
I don't know.
>> It's a deep cut.
>> Definitely the top four are locked in.
But you'd go B run over Biggie and Tupac
and
>> Cool. You know what? There you go. I
completely Tupac's number five. There
you go.
>> Okay.
>> And Nage, Jada, Andre, Tupac. There you
go.
>> It's a great top five. I love it.
>> It's a good top five.
>> Absolutely.
>> What's yours?
>> What's my top five?
>> Oh man.
>> Let's see. I would say
the Jay-Z is amazing. Um, and I know
he's been in the news for some not so
great reasons. So, you know, as a as a
as an artist, he's amazing. Um, who
else? Uh, as a as a producer, we were
talking
Kanye's one. Dre, too.
>> As a pure rapper, I wouldn't say him. I
mean, I think Rock Kim's underrated. He
hits so hard.
>> Uh,
>> I think uh Biggie's amazing. I I like
him. Tupac's more raw passion, but Big
>> I like lyrics. Yeah, Biggie. Biggie's
off the flow. Like I like I like I I go
for lyricist for me. That's that's where
I run.
>> Yeah. Um who else? Uh
>> man, you embarrassed me with that Biggie
Tupac. Completely out of my mind because
I I'm so focused in that world. I've
been listening to Joelle's and we were
talking about
>> Yeah. Yeah. Diplomat. I mean, I think I
think Nas has got to be up there, too. I
mean, just because just because of
Ilmatic. I mean, back to back, dude.
>> Those two were great. And then after
that,
>> it definitely went a little downhill. I
actually liked a couple of his recent
albums, but um
>> he he had a couple hits in there for
sure.
>> You know, you know, actually, you know
what? Let me throw Ice Cube is an
honorable me mention. Ice Cube. Ice Cube
has had some disgusting songs late in
his career.
>> You know how we do it. And
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Um It was a good day. He was in um NWA
obviously.
>> He was amazing. Yeah.
>> Yeah, man. I know. I know. I I You're
You're making me go back and I'm going
through all these songs in my head cuz
I'm I've been doing classic rock and
I've been doing like more like New York
rap lately. So I I I'm I'm like all over
the place. I I've been really killing
this uh Capital City's Pink Floyd Tupac
song. Breathe. It's a remix. So Capital
City's produced it. It's Pink Floyd
Breathe with Tupac Breathe.
>> Disgusting. We'll have to listen to it.
This is some like California driving
down the highway convertible music. Oh,
it's awesome, dude.
>> Sounds amazing.
>> Oh, it's it's good. I'll get on it.
>> Hell yeah.
>> Dylan, I appreciate you, man. Go check
out Vanguard. What's the website?
>> Uh, it's at vanguard.org. I know Matt
had thrown it up. It's on Twitter.
>> I So, on some uh real stuff, I uh we
have a social media team. This goes back
to support and I want to give a shout
out everybody. Give a shout out to
everybody who supports us. We love you.
I know a lot of you guys don't want to
be known and I understand. And I hope
one day all of you I'm going to
cry again. I hope all you guys get all
the respect in the world. Um,
>> yeah. And and and if you're out there
and you have any disposable income and
you really care about, you know, the
story resonated with you and it's of a
variety, it's not an isolation, please
donate.
>> Agreed. And then uh one more quick one
if I can add to that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Hold the government accountable.
>> Yeah.
>> Hold them accountable.
>> Definitely hold them accountable. Yeah.
I mean, I don't even there's an endless
laundry list at this point to hold them
accountable for, you know, things
they've done. But, uh,
>> thank you, man.
>> It's been a pleasure. I love you, man.
>> You, too.
>> We're going to go We're going to go
chill.
>> Yeah, let's go chill. Eat some steaks.
>> Love you.
>> All right.