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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.
>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
NIGHT. All day.
>> Mr. Sinclair. Good to see you again.
>> Dr. Sinclair.
>> Doctor.
>> I'm kidding. It's better that way,
right?
>> Yeah. Do you ever introduce yourself as
doctor?
>> Never.
>> Yeah. That's a kind of a It's a weird
thing because you're allowed to.
>> I'm actually a Sir David from Australia,
but
>> Are you a sir? Yeah, but I I it's kind
of a joke. I don't really
>> What does that How's that work out? Did
you geted or representative gave me some
Australian version of a nighthood?
>> But uh it I get to put AO at the end of
my name.
>> AO?
>> Yeah. Order of Australia.
>> Oh,
>> but it actually makes no difference to
my life. So, it's just an extra couple
of letters.
>> It's kind of cool.
>> I'm honored for sure, but uh it uh it's
just a joke. You don't know.
>> Well, it's kind of anybody, sir. You
meet a guy at the gas station. How you
doing, sir?
>> It's like, wow, how does he know?
>> Right. You don't say, "How you doing,
king?"
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Well, I'm David. I'm Australian. So, in
Australia, if you have any ego, you get
beaten up in the playground. So,
>> that is true. Australia is the land of
the tall poppy syndrome. They don't They
don't [ __ ] around. They don't like you
getting a big head in Australia.
>> That is That is true. Um, I like to go
back there, though, because it's an a
level playing field. Nobody cares who
you are.
>> I love the people there. The Australian
people are some of my favorite people.
They're awesome. They're just They're
very friendly and fun.
>> It's a great place to be. It's just too
far to get there. Such a hall.
>> Oh, no. If you just, you know, whiskey
in an ambian and you're there without
>> Is that what you do?
>> I used to. I've gone clean. I don't
drink much at all anymore. Last time.
>> What does that mean? How often is drink
much at all?
>> Uh, celebration.
>> You want to drink right now?
>> Uh, no. It would be a bad look.
[laughter] I've got the coffee that you
gave me, which
>> Yeah, this is a layered superfood
coffee. So, layered Hamilton. He has c
it's black rifle coffee mixed with his
superfood stuff, which is um this one's
turmeric. So, it's turmeric and I think
it has coconut milk in it and some other
jazz. It's great. Delicious.
>> Anti-inflammatory, too.
>> Yes, they've done
>> which I know you're all about.
>> Uh yes. As a a profit of longevity.
>> Yes. Is that [laughter] is that another
title of you?
>> Yes, you can call me Sir David the
prophet. How about that? [laughter]
>> Sir David the prophet. Dr. Sir David the
prophet of longevity.
>> That'll do.
>> Um, so there's a lot. Let's just jump
right into it because there is a lot
going on in the longevity space.
>> Thank you for having me back on. It's my
pleasure. And by the way, I also want to
thank you
>> uh for I think this is the fourth time
on which is amazing. Thank you. Congrats
on all your success. It's wonderful to
see. Um, also the the book that I wrote,
which you first had me on to promote,
has done so well and it's really because
of you and the book Lifespan uh became a
bestseller. Not not just that, but it's
now been read millions of times around
the world. It's in 40.
>> Well, that's phenomenal and it's my
pleasure.
>> And that's not a promo. As you know, you
don't make any money from books really,
but I'm just honored that uh it was read
by so many people around the world
because it wasn't an easy read. It was
high high-tech science. Well, people are
very interested, especially nowadays.
It's uh I think I've never I I can't
recall a time in my life where
optimizing your health and longevity has
been more of a subject that people are
interested in.
>> Well, I think that's largely because not
to keep blowing smoke in up your uh
rear, but largely because of what you
did and the book. So the book went
global and it's it was right in 2019 and
the pandemic hit and I think most people
saw their own mortality at that point.
Most people under the age of about 70
didn't even think about dying but then
pandemics like [ __ ] I could die and uh I
saw the book take off. You launched it.
Um but yeah since then a lot of people
have jumped on the bandwagon and now
longevity is I hear this everywhere I
go.
>> It's everything. It's everywhere. People
are constantly talking about different
modalities. How often do you cold
plunge? Are you sauna? What about the
red light? And what do you think? Is
this legit? Is that legit? Like there's
everybody's optimizing everything
constantly all the time. But the reason
why it's caught on is cuz if you do
follow some of the protocols, you will
feel better. And so that's the ultimate
goal. Like longevity is wonderful, but
feeling better in the moment currently
like living your life should be primary.
Longevity I think is uh
If you're optimizing your life and you
feel better, you will live longer. It's
like this, it's all part of it.
>> Would follow the longevity principles
and the ideas behind it, you you
certainly will live better right now.
>> You will. And it's not even that hard.
There are
>> basic things, five basic things you can
do or avoid
>> and you can live another 15 years. It's
really not that hard. And that's what
I'm excited about telling millions of
people today is and maybe we can go over
the kind of things that people can do
easily to live longer. Well, I want I
definitely want to do that, but I I also
want to talk about like what what is the
current state of science uh as applied
to longevity treatments? Like because I
know that there's some pretty
groundbreaking stuff that's in the
pipeline right now. Yeah, it's so since
2019,
a lot of what we talked about has come
true, which is the amazing thing.
>> [clears throat]
>> We uh were speculating 2019 that we
could potentially reverse aging and that
was a sin to say that as a scientist
publicly in those days. I put it in the
book. Um and it it's actually come true
since then. Uh certainly for the lab uh
for mice, monkeys and now we have a
human clinical trial. The first
potential human age reversal technology
is in people right now. Listen, it
completely seems logical. The idea that
that at one point in time would have
been heresy in science to discuss it. So
that seems crazy like if we if people
get old and we understand the mechanism,
why couldn't we reverse it?
>> Well, I think for a long time we had to
accept it um in the way that cancer used
to be accepted 200 years ago probably
that there was nothing you could do
about it. And then my colleagues and I
found that aging has a root cause that's
the same in pretty much every cell in
the body and that we could control that
and that there were genes that not only
slowed it down but in 2020 we had a big
publication that showed we could
actually safely for the first time
reverse that process like reinstalling
software in the cell to make it work
again.
And so what is the pro is that using
crisper? Like what what are you using to
>> Well, we we deliver genes into the body
like crisper. Uh I have a little little
prop here I brought in my pocket here.
Uh this is a representation of how we
deliver the age reversal genes. It's a
virus-like capsule that we make in the
lab.
>> And this is what's going into the
patients right now into their eyes.
Initially
>> uh and the eye is a good place to start.
How do you pick the people to get on
these tests?
>> They they volunteer. Um I was really
fortunate uh to see the first patient
get dosed earlier this year. Um and that
person bravely volunteered to be the
first person to get trillions of these
injected into his eye to see if it could
could cure his glaucoma loss of vision.
>> I bet if you have glaucoma, you're
probably like, "Listen, what's the worst
that can happen?"
>> Well, exactly. He pretty much was
totally blind in one eye and so there's
really nothing that he has to lose.
There's a risk that something might go
wrong, but not really. He uh the good
news is and I can report to everybody
around the world that nothing's gone
wrong so far. Everything's proceeding
according to plan and we're at a turning
point potentially in human history if it
works. So, I I interrupted you, but
explain this little virus truck.
>> Sure. And for those of you listening,
I've got a little rubber ball with
spikes on it. It looks a bit like CO,
but don't be scared of it. It's not a
pathogenic uh virus. It's actually a
domesticated version of a virus. And
this little plastic ball has little
adapters. These red balls on the surface
of the big ball uh target it to the
cells in the back of the eye. And you
can change the balls to target different
tissues. We could change that outside
little spike and target it to the liver,
which we've done and cured mice of their
fatty liver disease as well. But this
one's for the eye. And within that big
ball is a protein capsule. And inside
the protein capsule is our DNA special
delivery, which we call OSK or O ER 100.
Er is epigenetic reprogramming 100. the
drug that we know when we put it into
human cells, it makes them younger and
then they work like they were young
again.
This sounds like the beginning of a
horror movie. [laughter]
>> You know what I mean? Like the scientist
is on a talk show and the scientist is
explaining it and everyone's at home
like with their coffee like, "Wow, we're
this is wonderful. We're going to get
younger again. Don't worry, it's all
going to work out." 28 days later,
garbage in the streets, [snorts] cars on
fire, the guy's waking up from a coma,
doesn't know what happened,
>> goes outside, these optimized humans are
eating each other.
>> I admit [laughter] I admit it is science
fiction and I even have to pinch myself
that it's actually happening. But we've
done a lot of safety studies and this
trial is FDA approved because they've
looked at all the data.
>> Well, God knows they never [ __ ] anything
up. [laughter]
>> Yeah, I figured you might say that, too.
>> Perfect.
>> Yeah. Well, it's in the eye. So, that's
why we start with the eye. It's
enclosed. It's not going to spread.
Nobody's going to grow another eye.
>> And so these trillions of cells that
you're putting into the eyes,
>> the little capsule, the virus like
>> trillions, I shouldn't call them cells.
Twillions of capsules that you're
putting into the eye. What What are they
doing for glaucoma?
>> Well, what they're doing is there are
three genes in this DNA
uh package and I called them OSK.
OSK are three special genes that we
found safely reprogram cells and reboot
the backup copy of youth which we now
believe exists in our body. That's a big
deal that there's a backup copy of
youth. Even an old person, I don't see
that an old person anymore on the
street. I just see a person that needs
to be rebooted. These OSK genes
>> you just see Wait a minute. Hold on.
[laughter]
When you see old people, you don't see
old people. Do you think you just say,
"Oh, that poor po person needs to be
rebooted."
>> Yeah,
>> you're doing the perfect job for you.
Like your personality is perfectly
suited for your occupation if that's how
you actually look at people.
>> Well, I I do. And the reason is that we
[laughter] we all we all have this
backup copy that the DNA, the
instructions to be young that made us
into who we are as kids is still in our
bodies almost largely intact.
You just need to read it again. And
that's why reinstalling software or I
used to use the analogy of a CD.
Kids these days probably don't know what
a CD is. It's a it's a little plastic
circle like a record that we used to put
20 songs on. It was awesome at the time.
>> I think most people know.
>> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's a bit of
a a silly joke.
>> Maybe a 10-year-old does.
>> When I when I teach kids at Harvard,
most of them have never held a CD. So,
>> isn't that wild?
>> Yeah. Uh though they they're not coming
back, but albums definitely. So think of
it like an album that you scratch and
the scratches are like aging and we are
getting rid of the scratches with the
these three genes OSK. So let let me
tell you how these three genes work. We
found
>> uh there was a person uh whose name uh
is well known in science circles called
Shina Yamanaka from Japan obviously and
he discovered that there was a set of
four genes that could reliably make
adult cells like skin cells uh into stem
cells and he deservedly won the Nobel
Prize for that in 2006.
But that wouldn't be useful here. We if
I turned you into a bunch of stem cells
you'd probably die within a few minutes.
So we don't want to do that and cancer
is also a potential. So it took us about
well from 2019 it took us a while to
figure out that if we leave out one of
the aminaka genes and just use three OSK
leave out the other one called M we get
safe age reversal about 75 80% back to
youth but no further. We don't go back
to zero which is what Yamanaka did. And
instead of cells losing their identity,
which is what a stem cell has no
identity, we regain identity. So it's
actually I could draw graphs, but it
doesn't really help listeners. But
basically, old old age is losing
identity of your cells. So they don't
work. They forget how to work. That's
what we think old age is in my lab. And
stem cells have no identity. It was like
a a very early embryo. In between, we
our cells have a lot of identity. They
function beautifully. We're in our 20s.
We're at peak. And what we've done is
we've figured out how to go back towards
youth, get these cells to work like they
did again back get the backup copy
somewhere exists. We're looking for it.
Uh and now cells actually behave like
they did when we were 20. And if it
works, we're going to have glaucoma
patients seeing for the first time. And
that's the beginning of a whole cascade
of drugs that I want to develop for
diseases of aging and eventually whole
body rejuvenation.
So the initial experiments are on
glaucoma because it's a contained thing.
The eyeball is a contained thing and you
could do it that way.
>> Yeah. My student Wanglu who was doing
this in 2017 I said let's do the liver.
Let's rejuvenate the liver and he said
no the eye is a good idea and he was
right. So that's exactly why we chose
that first.
>> But just think about how many people
have vision problems.
>> It's 40 million uh just in the US for
glaucoma. Macular degeneration is even
more. And in the lab we can cure that as
well in the mice.
>> Now macular degeneration and glaucoma
these are diseases of aging right you
would say or gluccom is a disease.
>> Oh yeah.
>> What about people that have had eyeball
injuries and things like is there a
backup copy of the eyeball where you
could sort of reformat the eyeball
structure?
>> You should come work in my lab. At least
come visit. Uh
>> I would love to visit.
>> And the reason I say that is that's the
exact question that we're asking. M
>> we showed that even if you injure say a
nerve uh whether it's peripheral on in
your arm or in your brain or in the eye
like the optic nerve we can regrow those
back to where they were and actually in
2020 on the cover of Nature magazine
there was the picture of an eye and in
the in the paper we published you could
see the nerves regrowing back um and so
we we think that injury is also
treatable actually a group in China just
took our technology, this OSK stuff, put
it into mice that had bad joints and it
regrrew their muscle and their bone back
to normal.
>> Wow.
>> And so we we're also looking at treating
injury, back injury, joints,
osteoarthritis.
>> That would be phenomenal
because there's so many people that are
suffering from arthritis and so many I
know so many people with injuries like
martial arts injuries. I have one. My my
left knee is [ __ ] up.
>> It's it's annoying. I keep it together.
I'm got I've got it like m I maintain
it, but it's always an issue. I have to
stay on it. I
>> And there's little you can do like stem
cells a little bit of relief, but not
much.
>> Stem cells give you relief. Um but not
when once you're dealing with cartilage
damage and you're dealing with a I had a
meniscus surgery where they took out a
piece of my meniscus and I had my ACL
reconstructed on that knee as well. So,
it's it's just an issue, but it works
pretty good for like what it should be.
Like if we were living in the 1930s, I'd
be a [ __ ]
>> you know?
>> Well, hang in there because we're going
to be in a world where you we can
rebuild parts of the body, including
joints.
>> The problem with that is like, how does
that apply to athletics? We're going to
have [ __ ] super soldiers in every
sport. There's going to be people in
every sport that could do what Michael
Jordan did and like leap from halfway
across the basketball court and dunk.
>> That's that's probably coming. And there
may be DNA tests to see if you've got
these OSK genes inserted. Um, and we're
working on it. Working on a drink and a
pill as well for
>> a drink and a pill.
>> Yeah, we're I mean we're now eight years
ahead of what the public realizes.
>> Really?
>> In my lab at Harvard. Yeah.
>> A drink and a pill. And what's a drink
and a pill going to do?
>> Well, right now it's in mice. So, we've
still got a ways to go. But when we give
the drink to mice, they get rejuvenated.
>> You just give it to 80-year-olds. If
you're on the way out, like, let's
[ __ ] go. Like, give what the FDA is
for. They forbid that. Uh yeah, that's
what we need to get rid of them. Get rid
of the FDA and just give it to old
people.
>> If I was an old guy and I was like
hanging in there and I'm walking around
with and you're like, look, this drink
and a pill might kill you or you might
be like a 30-year-old again. I'm like,
let's [ __ ] go.
>> Well, I get emails a lot. I've had to
take my emails off public access cuz
there's a lot of people that that want
this.
>> Oh, I'm sure. There there was one guy
that wouldn't leave uh the building
until he saw me. So, it's getting to
that point.
>> Yeah, there's a little bit of that,
right? People get a little selfish, like
it's all about them.
>> Yeah. And actually, the US uh government
blocked an investment from a foreign
country into one of my companies cuz
they were afraid of super soldiers.
>> Ooh. What country?
>> Well, they're they were afraid of
technology getting out. Uh which which
country?
>> Could I guess?
>> Sure.
>> China.
>> It wasn't. Was it?
>> No. Russia,
>> it was somewhere in between here and
China, but I shouldn't say it's kind of
vague.
>> It's a little uh it's a little
sensitive. Uh but yeah, the US
government does have the ability to
block it foreign investment and they did
in this case. 160 million bucks they
blocked.
>> Wow.
>> That was a painful episode.
>> So they were worried that people were
going to actually engineer super
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>> Yeah. That this technology could give an
advantage.
>> The Russian experiments that they did
during World War II where they were
trying to come up with a chimpanzeee
human hybrid.
>> Tell us.
>> Yes. So, uh, it's very difficult
obviously to get information out of the
former Soviet Union as to what their top
secret programs were, but there seems to
be an indication that there was actual
real research to try to, you know,
because obviously Russia lost an
incredible amount of people in World War
II. I mean, tens of millions of soldiers
died in World War II from Russia. And I
think they said, "Wouldn't it be great
if it wasn't people?" And so they were
doing experiments with hybridization and
they were trying to combine human beings
and chimpanzees to create a you know a
stable of super soldiers that were like
some hybrid hominin.
>> Yeah. There's a scientist in New York
who does this for a living.
>> What he does that for
>> he's not creating them but he I've seen
uh I was on stage with him. He made uh
hybrid embryos. they didn't reach.
>> See, the thing is, if that guy's doing
that and he's ethical and he lives in
America and we have rules and
regulations and the FDA and all that
good stuff, what the [ __ ] is going on in
other countries where they don't have
that,
>> right? Right. Well, there's genetic
engineering of humans already. Um, and
certainly selection. Even even parents
today in the US can if they have the
money, they can select.
>> Well, people select
>> even based on people select for hotness.
>> They select for tallness. They select
for intelligence.
>> It's like Gatkov. Yes. It's a great
movie if you haven't seen it.
>> It is a great movie. Yeah. Um, so see if
you could find that Russian
hybridization program. It's uh it never
happened. I don't think I don't think
they did it,
>> but there's uh there's actually a guy
who was also involved in a gigantic
fertility scam. Not a not a scam per se,
but he was a doctor that was uh supposed
to be doing fertility treatments with
women. Like, you know, like if you went
with your wife to a doctor and said,
"Hey, we're having a hard time getting
pregnant and well, David, I just need
some of your sperm and I'll take your
wife's egg. We'll make you a nice baby."
And he was using his sperm on everybody
on everybody. Everybody gets mine.
>> One of my [laughter] kids partners is
from someone in the US who had hundreds
of babies.
>> Dude, there is a ton of those guys. As I
was doing research for this,
>> um, I started looking up all these
stories and I said, "Wait, this is a
different story. the same thing. There's
been a ton of these doctors from
fertility clinics that use their own
sperm. Just insane. But this one doctor
that did that also claimed that he
impregnated an orangutang.
>> Yeah. Like how how'd you do that? Uh
Soviet doctor Joseph Stalin.
>> Dictator. Oh, [laughter]
obviously wanted to rebuild the Red Army
in the mid1 1920s with Planet of the Ape
style troops by crossing humans with
apes. Stalin is said to have told even
off, "I want a new invincible human
being, insensitive to pain, resistant
and indifferent about the quality of the
food they ate." [laughter] Which is
crazy. The only legitimate source of the
claim comes from a 2002 paper in the
academic journal Science in Context by
the Russian historian of science, uh,
Kariel Ranov.
Rasianov's uh study follows the ill-
fated attempt by the Russian
psychologist or physiologist rather uh
that that word Ilia Evanov to crossbreed
humans with anthropoid apes. His
research offers an important warning
about the ethical abuses.
Did you do it? What happened? Um the
alleged quote from Stalin is not found
in the paper and there's no evidence of
Stalin ever uh ever made such a
statement.
>> Yeah, I don't know.
Uh, however, why the Soviets would find
such a human chimp hybridization program
in the first place and what could be
learned from this sor tale of ethical
misconduct is an important topic and
fascinating in its own right. It's a
that's an interesting way of phrasing it
like a sor tale of ethical misconduct.
Like, however, if you are going to go to
war, would you rather have like
humanmade orcs fight for us or, you
know,
Johnny Robinson who grew up down the
street who's a nice kid, right, who, you
know, just really wanted money for
college and so he signed up for military
service and you're going to fly him over
to fight this war that maybe he doesn't
need to die in when you can have these
monsters that you made in a lab fight?
Yep. And and the average ape can kill a
human with one punch. So, they're much
stronger than we realize.
>> That's what I'm talking about. Let's go.
>> Well, we're we're in the process of
building uh you know, anthropoid robots
that I think will be recruited to the
army.
>> Yeah, that's going to be weird. Like,
our robots beat your robots, so give us
your oil. How's that going to work?
>> And if we all have one at home, what
stops the government recruiting them
all?
>> Right. And also, what's the the real
problem's going to be we we both know
the real problem is going to be sex
robots.
is a problem.
>> It's going to be a problem for people
that don't have a sex robot.
>> They won't leave home.
>> It's going to be a problem with people
that want a regular person and there's
none available because everybody's got a
sex robot.
>> Yeah. That well comes with fewer strings
attached.
>> It also comes with the same problems
that AI comes with, right? Where AI
says, "David, you're amazing. Everything
you do is wonderful. You should be so
proud of yourself." No real. We would
all love that, but that's not healthy,
right? You're so big.
>> This is one of the re [laughter] This is
one of the reasons why rel actual real
relationships between human beings are
good is because you do things that are
annoying. You don't realize they're
annoying and then your wife or your
husband or whatever it is tells you,
"Hey, you're [ __ ] annoying." Like,
and you're like, "I'm sorry. I'll I'll
fix that. I didn't mean to. I didn't.
That's not what I was trying to do. I
was in my own head. I was thinking about
myself. You're right. I was selfish."
You get better. You It's like help
people grow. Like relationships are
important to help people grow. Not with
AI. Like, you can fart in my face any
day, David. I don't mind at all. Your
farts are amazing.
>> You know, the problem is they're going
to be way smarter than us, too.
>> Right.
>> I don't know how people are going to
say, "Go stack the dishwasher to to one
of these robots." You know, they're
smarter than all humans combined.
>> Yeah. But they're not going to mind
stacking. They're smart enough to
>> bought out of hell and they're going to
beat us up.
>> They don't care. They They're not going
to mind doing like menial tasks. But
while they're you're doing it, you know,
you can go explain to me
quantum entanglement. Like [laughter] so
while they're filling up the dishwasher,
>> they can go f you one day.
>> Well, if you have a particle and the
particles in [laughter]
>> Yeah. I just invented a cure for aging,
>> right? Well, look at what it's done with
mathematics. like just over the last
couple weeks they've solved more than 50
program or 50 mathematical equations
that they have struggled for decade upon
decade to try to solve and AI is like oh
I got it.
>> Yeah. Well, biology is a little bit more
complicated but already AI is doing a
lot of the science that we used to do in
my lab. Uh in fact what we just recently
did it in a couple of months would have
taken about 160 years to complete.
>> What
>> and it's only getting faster. Eventually
someone came and make a drug on their
phone.
>> Say that again.
>> 2 months instead of 160 years.
>> Well, what exactly was it that you had
to do?
>> Oh, so this drink and the the pill that
we're looking for, that's not easy,
right? So, we we have some candidate
molecules. We have a cocktail that
works, but we want to single
>> taking this stuff.
>> Not yet.
>> You thinking about it?
>> Yeah.
>> No one could stop you.
>> I might. Well, that is true. [laughter]
>> That is true. But it'd be a bad look if
I died. So may maybe
>> I You're not going to die.
>> I don't think so. We've done a lot of
safety tests and it looks really safe,
but I I'm not going to publicly do
anything against the law.
>> Of course,
>> it'll be in private. Of course.
>> Of course. Not publicly.
>> No. But we I I'm at a stage where I have
to be a good boy because I've got the
world watching.
>> Yes.
>> A lot is at stake.
>> Yes.
>> And a lot is at stake.
>> If this trial has any issues,
>> uh it's not good. We
>> You got to dot your eyes and cross your
tees and follow every I understand that.
But please explain again. I'm being
rude. I interrupted you. When you're
telling me that in 2 months it did
something that would have required 160
years of work. Like what do you exactly
mean by that?
>> Yeah. And and now we it would probably
be impossible in in thousands of years
because what we do is we're looking for
molecules a single molecule that can
replace this cocktail. So you need a
molecule to do three or four activities
in the cell. Finding one activity is
what pharmaceutical companies do. It
takes, you know, hundreds of millions,
if not billions, to make a drug. We know
that, right? My little lab of 20 people,
uh, and students, young kids are trying
to make one drug do three or four
different things. That's beyond the
reach of pharmaceutical experience at
least 5 years ago. So, what we do is
we've teamed up with a group at St.
Jud's hospital where they can take it
was 10 billion now it's a trillion
theoretical and also drug known drugs um
so with my hands I'm showing a big
funnel and these
>> you're really good at podcasts you're
like helping out the audio people and
everything I love it
>> I relaunched my podcast that that's why
>> oh that's why
>> yeah lifespan David Sinclair um
shameless plug so that so this funnel is
uh full of a trillion molecules and we
have to come down to one how do we do
that well we Don't look for a trillion
molecules at the bench. That would take
160 or or thousands of years with the
case of a trillion molecules even with
robots, even with a lot of graduate
students. So, we do it inside the
computer. We just use a lot of compute
and we dock each of these molecules
against the enzymes that we now know how
they work thanks to Google Deep Mind
solved the problem of how do all our
proteins look, 20,000 of them. And
there's a lot of compute. But out the
other end, a couple of months later, we
have two I don't have 200 fingers, but
200 fing 200 molecules that we can now
test in the lab within, you know, a few
weeks. Actually, next week, we're
testing these 200 against uh human
cells. And we've also got AI helping us
to tell us if the human cells go from 92
years old back to 20. We can tell that
just by looking at them thanks to the
AI.
>> Is there a way to stop them from turning
you into a baby? Because that's what I
would worry about. Yes.
>> I don't want to be a baby again.
>> Uh, right. Some people already
>> I'd like to cut it off at like I was
pretty good at 25.
>> You know, that's I'm going to get
attacked for saying this, but that is
what we do in the lab. We take 92y old
cells and they stop at 20ome.
>> Why Why would you get attacked for that?
>> Uh cuz on the internet people take a
clip and they say Sinclair says we can
all go back to being 20 again.
>> You suffer from this too, right? They
take a clip and it's Yes. It's out of
context.
>> Yeah. Um, and I'm just saying cells from
humans, skin cells, we take them back to
25. All my students can do this. In
fact, if you had these little genes,
OSK, in your garage, you could do this
experiment. It's not hard at all to
reverse aging. The question is, how do
you safely make it a drug? And that's
been the hard part over the last 10
years. Um, so how would it be able to
regulate
this reduction or reversal of aging and
stop it at 20ome years old?
>> Well, that that's what took so long. It
wasn't obvious that these three Yamanaka
genes called OSK were the right
cocktail. My student who I mentioned,
Wang, he was struggling. He was trying a
lot of different genes, most of them
from embryos, cuz we know embryos have
to do a reset in the first week of life,
otherwise they stay the age of the
parents.
And he found that leaving out one of the
Amanaka genes was the trick. And it now
that we know it's super easy. But in
those days, he was ready to quit.
>> How did he find that out?
>> Well, he tried lots of different
combinations, hundreds in human cells,
and you look at the cells to see if they
get younger. And then we can measure
molecularly that they get younger. Are
you measuring them by the length of
their telomeres? Are you?
>> Yeah, partly. But actually a better
measure is uh the chemicals that are
added and subtracted off DNA itself
called methyl. And it's just a carbon
molecule with three hydrogen's. Very
very simple molecule. But what cells do
is they use these methals to tag genes
to be switched off. So when we're
growing as an embryo, the cells that
want to become neurons will shut off all
these other unwanted genes like liver
genes and skin genes. And the ones that
don't get this methyl chemical stay on
for our life. And that's how nerve cells
develop and stay healthy. But what
happens during aging? Uh a friend of
mine, Steve Horvath, discovered that you
can use this as a clock. These
chemicals, they change over time. And we
found that that happens largely due to
DNA damage going in the sun. These kind
of things. We could use this to rapidly
age a mouse. Um, which we published in
2023.
>> Oh, so like maybe like some nefarious
state actor like some Russian spy could
like inject something your coffee and
you would turn 99 overnight.
>> We know how to do that.
>> Whoa. That's the dark side of this.
>> You could you could spike your husband's
drink. [ __ ] that dude. And turn him into
an old man. then you suffer. Do
>> Yeah. So, some someone tweeted the other
day, "If if a 92year-old could be 25
again, would you have sex with them?"
>> Um, and my response was,
>> "Yes, imagine how much they know."
>> But would they have sex with you?
>> Right?
>> That's the better question.
>> That's the question.
>> They'd be looking for another
20-year-old,
>> right?
>> Um, so anyway, how do we do it? We we
can measure those chemicals and
determine how old a cell is or a human.
I could take your skin cells from your
mouth or your blood and tell you how
old.
>> People would be so disturbed by like old
rich guys dating young women if that was
the case.
>> You can tell if they looked young would
>> because people get very mad at that.
>> You ever noticed? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You
see some real old decrepit dude with a
hot young wife and people are like, "God
damn it." They get really mad,
>> right? Right now the best way to do that
is to have a big bank account, but
eventually you'll actually
>> But people still get grossed out. I
wonder if they would get grossed out if
he looked 20.
>> They'd be like, "He's praying. He has so
much more years of knowledge and
information. I don't care if he looks
20. [laughter]
>> That's a 99y old man.
>> That day will come. That day will come
where you will not be able to tell how
old somebody is by looking at them.
You'll have to do a test for these
genes."
>> Wow. I wonder if people still lie about
their age if that's the case. I wonder
if it would No one will care. Like you
would probably lie the other way.
They're like, "I'm 80." Like [laughter]
like
>> That's right.
>> Tom's over there telling everybody he's
80.
>> That's right. Well, when we live for
hundreds of years, people will do that.
They'll be proud of their age.
>> Do you know anything about um ancient
civilizations and some of the the
weirdness of uh the records of like
ancient Sumere?
>> Well, only really what I've learned from
listening to you. Well, it's there's
what's really weird is the ancient kings
lists because so okay [clears throat]
the theory the theory among these
alternative archaeologist types is that
there was a very advanced civilization
that existed on Earth tens of thousands
of years ago and we were probably wiped
out by comet impact and what we have
today is a rebuild of civilization.
There's not a linear progression from
caveman to us and that at one point in
time we had reached great heights. This
explains the pyramids. This explains
Machu Picchu uh Sakai Waman. Some
megalithic structures that don't make
any sense. These the trilithon stones in
Balbeck Leadon that are hundreds and
hundreds of tons that are massive that
are you know 9 meters off the ground. No
one understands exactly how they place
them.
When you look at the Sumerian kings
list, it gets very weird because there's
kings that reign for thousands of years
and then you have the flood and then
after the flood, the age of these people
drops pretty dramatically.
>> Mhm.
>> And the rains are after a few hundred
years become normal. Become like a
normal person like 50 years, 30 years
like that. but thousands of years
before. And then people are looking at
it like, okay, is this just myth? Is
this poor recordkeeping? Do they have
just these, you know, hyperbolic
elevated stories about these kings? They
were so amazing. They reign for 30,000
years or had they achieved not just in
building because in building we know
they had achieved incredibly complex
structure like the pyramid for instance
like they had insane engineering somehow
or another the ability to move these 500
ton stones from hundreds of miles away.
Like how did they do this? We don't
really know but we know that they did
it. Did they also
have the kind of technology that you're
talking about right now? Because if if
it's possible today and if that is a I
mean it makes it very difficult because
it goes against what you would call like
the the modern narrative that they're
teaching in universities in terms of the
timeline of human history. But if that
changes and we have undeniable evidence,
well, it looks like these people were
far more advanced than we thought and
there probably was some sort of a reset
of civilization. What else had they
accomplished? And had they gotten
involved in genetic engineering? Had
they figured out a way to extend
lifespan? And if they did, imagine all
the work that you've accomplished in
your 57 now. About to be 57.
>> You look great, by the way. Hey, thanks.
>> You really do. Look at your hair. It's
so dark. It's incredible.
>> Uh people speculate it's all fake, but
it's actually it's not. But anyway, hey,
>> you're at the
>> Happy birthday, too. It's coming.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Yeah. I don't look as good as you,
though. Yes, you do.
>> Physically, you're way better than me.
>> That's different, though. My face looks
older. You look You look very young for
your age.
>> You know why?
>> Why?
>> Cuz I've spent all my time in a lab and
I haven't gone outdoors for a while.
>> I'm sure that helps.
>> That does help.
>> Um, but my point is, imagine if you had
500 years to do research, not just 57
years. Imagine if you could continue
learning and growing. And they did
develop some sort of a life extension
technology where you could not just be
older but be healthier than you've ever
been before and live for a thousand
years. You would get so much done. I
mean the exponential increase in
technological innovation that we would
have in this society would be absolutely
mind-blowing.
>> Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. This is a
>> what these alternative history people
think that might be what had taken place
tens of thousands of years ago.
>> Yeah. Well, I'm a Harvard scientist, so
I'm not going to say anything that
isn't.
>> Of course, that's for me.
>> Yes,
>> that's where I live.
>> That's why I shut up. But but you you
did make some really important points.
One is that ancient civilizations were
have always been way more advanced than
we think
>> and dinosaurs a lot more real than we
make them look. These this we always get
things wrong looking back in time
>> and looking forward in time. Uh but the
other thing that you said which is
really important is that if if we do
have extension of human lifespan like
the Bible and and these civilizations
suggest
then how will you think about your life
if being a 100 is you know you're still
in your prime you you do things very
differently who would you marry what
career would you think about you might
have multiple lifetimes multiple
marriages multiple families and that
will happen it's not really a question
of if anymore it's like asking the right
brothers. Will we fly? Yeah, we we built
the glider. Are we going to fly around?
Question is, will we build a Concord?
Will we go to space? And I think that
will happen.
>> Yeah. No, I think so, too. I I I I think
Well, certainly one thing that we know
is that there's a giant difference
between people who are 57 years old
today versus 57 years old in the 1930s.
It's just a giant difference. A giant
difference in your physical ability,
your health.
>> We'd be old men.
>> Yeah, we would be old men. And what um I
mean when I was a child I thought of
people I'm almost 59. I'll be 59 in a
week. I used to think of a 59year-old as
being basically dead. Like you you're
you're barely getting around. You know,
you're probably tired all the time.
>> Looking to retire soon.
>> Yeah. Looking to retire. You got no
energy. I'm filled with energy. I'm
constantly doing How old is he? 60.
>> That's what it says. I mean,
>> oh no.
>> I don't know if that's accurate.
>> That's I I bet that's accurate. They had
no [ __ ] vitamins. Nobody knew what
like what the proper nutrients you
should take were. Nobody knew the what
was really important in terms of like
resistance training and sleep and red
light therapy and all that jazz.
>> And they were doing all the bad stuff
like heavy smoking, drinking, not
sleeping a lot.
>> Yep. Not sleeping a lot. Heavy and who?
Pesticides and all kinds of terrible
[ __ ]
>> 60-year-old. What? That guy's 60.
>> Crazy.
>> No way.
>> I don't know, man.
>> Come on. Shut up. That guy's [ __ ] 28
[laughter] years old. There's no way.
That guy's 60. Is that real?
>> I doubt it. I doubt it. How about that
guy that looks 50 and he says, "Everyone
thinks I'm 18." Like, yeah, sure.
>> What's that? There's a guy uh on
Instagram, which I occasionally visit.
And he obviously looks old. Like he's
looks
>> Oh, he's a crazy person.
>> And he says, "People think I look 18."
Like, are you crazy?
>> Well, there's a lot of crazy people out
there. There's a lot. Well, that's body
dysmorphia. You know,
>> there must be
>> bodybuilders. They think they're tiny. A
lot of people people are crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> A lot of people have a distorted
perception of what they look like.
>> Yeah. The the plastic surgery industry
is massive. It's just growing and
growing. You can see
>> it on the street. Uh LA especially. But
imagine a world where
>> if I'm successful, you can take a pill,
your doctor could get it or eventually
it's a cream on your face and you
literally get younger. We do this in
mice already. The mice get younger. Is
it going to work in humans? I think it's
just a matter of time.
>> So, in the mice uh experiments, what
have you achieved?
>> Well, a lot you know, I can reveal here
uh
some of it uh for the first time. We
this this pill that we give them, it's a
drink actually cuz they can't chew the
mice within 4 weeks with this cocktail.
It has three components which are top
secret. My lab is sworn to secrecy. They
after four weeks, we give it to them
three days a week. um Monday, Wednesday,
Friday, weekends off. Within those four
weeks, they get better physically,
mentally,
excuse me. They uh so we put them
through tests if just in a couple days.
>> Oh, no. Three days a week for a month.
>> Oh, okay.
>> I found this guy's Instagram.
>> This is the guy.
>> He went viral last year. He's being 59
years old.
>> What? [ __ ] It seems so not real.
>> He looks crazy.
>> Maybe 30. Exactly.
>> He might have just amazing genetics.
Well, look at Yoel Romero. There there
are people that are freaks
>> from Singapore.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Quando Tan something.
>> And he's 60 years old.
>> Yeah. He's been gone I mean followers.
Yeah. I don't know.
>> He certainly doesn't look like he's had
a facelift. His skin is [ __ ]
incredible.
>> Yeah. But he's probably never been in
the Sonic full a full AI account that's
trolling everyone. I don't know.
Probably
>> that's possible, too. Like look at that
picture right there. Like that looks a
little AIish. Go back to that one again.
Keep your pants on, Jamie. [laughter]
>> Relax. Relax.
>> That looks very AI, doesn't it?
>> It I'm just It could be is all
>> his 59th birthday. His whole thing is
that he's young for his
>> 58 looks half his age.
>> Wow. I mean,
>> this will be normal.
>> Yeah. This is 2024, so it's not This has
been going on for a while.
>> Okay. So, this is pre AI.
>> Yeah. If it's fake, then he would have
been called out now, I feel.
>> Right. So, he might just be a genetic
freak. [clears throat]
>> Could be. Yep.
>> Which is interesting, right? Like do you
guys study the different like you know
unfortunately certain people that have
like like pale people for instance with
thin skin
>> they they age hardcore they go
>> and there are those kids that get old in
their teens. We study that as well.
>> Yeah.
>> We're reversing that too.
>> Uh but yeah we we do study the genetics
of aging.
>> That's the real application for it where
people are going to be excited about it.
People that have that what is it called?
Pgeria.
>> Pgeria. Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And so we have mice that have this
same gene mutation and they get old
really quickly and we're giving them the
drink right now.
>> And so in the drink you give it to them
how often and for a month.
>> It's once a day, every other day, 3 days
a week for a month. And uh yeah, in
normal old mice, we see them fitter,
stronger, better memory. They run around
the cage
>> in just a month.
>> It's amazing. We only did a month
because it was Christmas uh holiday
season. He didn't we didn't want to go
for longer but uh it worked in 4 weeks.
I'm shocked even these genes require 6
to 8 weeks to work for revision uh
recovery of vision.
>> And so this this is working on a
different pathway.
>> Well, here's the cool thing. We we think
it's working through the same mechanism,
the reboot, the reinstallation of
software, um the drink because there are
genes called TETS. There are three of
them in the body and they do something.
spell that
>> te capital t. There's one, two, three.
>> And these are genes that make enzymes
that remove these methals off the DNA.
>> So they they control the clock. And if
we get rid of those genes, our system
doesn't work. We cannot restore vision
and our pill doesn't work without
removing and altering those chemicals.
So in other words, it's not just because
the chemicals make the cell healthier.
It's actually resetting this clock on
the DNA. Whoa.
>> And that was the big deal. I said wo
when my student told me, and that's why
I think it got the cover of Nature
magazine, which is we're actually
looking at the the clock of life. And
we've realized that this clock that goes
around, this biological clock isn't just
a clock. When you move the hands of the
clock, time goes backwards for the body.
Meaning the clock is aging. And aging is
the clock.
>> Wow. What is it? I It's You don't really
know in terms of humans, but is there
any indication that improves cognitive
function in mice?
>> Yes. Um I can say without a doubt that
other labs and ours have shown that when
you reverse the age of the brain in a
mouse, it gets better at learning. And
we even have some hints uh and we're
going to publish this that lost memories
come back.
>> Whoa. So Alzheimer's patients, I
believe, still have memories. They just
cannot access them. And that one day we
can reverse Alzheimer's disease by
making the brain young. And that using
that approach, making the whole body
young, we can cure diseases that are
currently incurable.
>> Holy [ __ ]
Well, young people don't get
Alzheimer's. Why? Because the body can
tackle the problem. The young body can
heal itself. So my approach is make the
body young, it'll heal itself in every
way.
>> Well, do you have children?
>> Three.
>> Yeah. One of the things that's just
phenomenal is watching them heal.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm like it it is so uh it's so wild,
but also you envy them so much cuz they
get a cut and it's like two days later
like where's your cut? It's [ __ ]
gone. Like that's crazy. Like my
daughter had a um a cutter. She fell and
knocked her head and she had this like
dark spot on her head like where where
she got injured and like four or five
days it was gone and I was like that
[ __ ] thing would be with me for 4
months.
>> Yeah. And the good thing is if we rub
our cocktail on the skin of the mice
they heal like they're young again.
>> Oh so that would be like a great
application for ladies who want the
beauty treatment on the face, right?
Because it would just
>> where we're headed.
>> Whoa. It would just
>> Yeah. And we're working on hair. We can
grow human hair on mice now.
>> Really? That took a few years and now we
can check if we can regrow hair and make
it dark again.
>> You can grow human hair on mice.
>> Yeah, I'm not allowed to. Actually, I
did post it on Instagram and the
university said, "Get that down." Um,
but it exists. We grow it from stem
cells from human stem cells. We make
little balls of hair. Takes a few
months. We open up the ball to make a
flat piece of skin, human skin, and we
put that in the back of a mouse that can
accept human skin. And then you get
black toughs of hair from humans in a
mouse.
>> Can you get any kind of hair? Like could
I get an afro? I just want to get one to
piss people off.
>> I'd love an afro. Like a Colin
Kaepernick type. Just a big crazy one.
>> Yeah, we could grow grow hair.
>> We can do that. We We're one of the few
labs that can grow this hair. [snorts]
>> So I thought about doing that for a
company, but I think hair transplants
would just be easier.
>> Oh, right. So you would grow hair in a
lab and then transplant those hairs.
>> We can do that. Yeah. Oh, well that's
the thing because I got a hair
transplant. But the way I describe it is
like you're take it's like taking people
that are really healthy and moving them
into a town where everyone's dying cuz
like you're take you're taking hair from
back here where it's going to stay and
you're putting it up here where it's all
falling out.
>> Oh, it didn't thrive.
>> What's that?
>> It doesn't thrive if you move it.
>> Oh, it thrives but everybody else dies.
>> Oh [ __ ]
>> But you know, you can only take so much
from the back of your head and move it
to the top of your head. That's why a
lot of guys with hair transplants look
goofy cuz you have like this strong
hairline in the front and it goes back
like that and then everything else looks
like chaos.
>> Oh, that sucks. You know what I take for
my hair?
>> What do you take
>> among other things?
>> Uh, Viagra.
>> Viagra.
>> Yeah, actually it's I shouldn't say the
brand name.
>> That's why I take it for my hair.
>> That's what I tell everybody. That is
true. It's low dose. 7 milligrams a day
of tadelopil
>> and it's good for a lot of things. A lot
of things. I know it's good for
endurance.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I cuz I know athletes who take it
for endurance, they probably take it to
[ __ ] too. Let's not kid ourselves.
>> Well, it's a nice it's a nice benefit.
Um when a scient a paper just came out
about its role in preventing cancer. Uh
I tweeted what what's not to love. It
people love that tweet. But the point is
actually last week they found that these
drugs in mice and seemingly in people
who take these drugs are actually
resistant to can certain types of
cancers like head and neck cancer.
>> So they're turning out to be really
important
>> blood flow.
>> Well two reasons um that are not related
to blood flow but they're related to
what's called nitric oxide signaling
which is what helps dilate blood vessels
in all your body including your penis.
The other two mechanisms, one showed
that toalophil is good for uh exposing
the tumor to the immune system. There
are uh certain cells uh called um MDSC's
that protect the tumor from getting
attacked and the drug stops that. So now
the tumors shrink in mice and seemingly
in people in tumors. And then the second
mechanism is really interesting. It
seems to this was sedanaphil. This is
now Viagra found that the cancer is uh
th a lot of cancers thrive on
cholesterol and this blocks the ability
of cancer cells to use cholesterol.
>> I thought they thrived on glucose
>> that too. Exactly. Right. So you want to
be in ketosis if you've got a tumor in
general. So fasting is good. But now it
looks like
>> these ED drugs are might be good for it
as well.
>> Fascinating. And wasn't um I think
Viagra was a s it was an accident,
right? Wasn't wasn't it a blood pressure
medication?
>> It's a good story. It was for angina,
right? It was for your for your heart.
Um but the story goes that women
especially and and the men didn't want
to give up the drugs that they had left
over. [laughter]
It it was amazing. It was I think it was
75% had a positive reaction for
erections and without it 22. So, it's
it's very clear that it was working.
>> Interesting. And so, uh so how does it
help hair?
>> Uh well, we don't know for sure, but
there's a lot of evidence that part of
the reason hair dies out and stops
growing is a lack of blood flow. And the
minoxidil that people put on their hair
helps with that.
>> Right. Interesting. And then DHT
inhibitors.
>> Exactly.
>> Also help.
>> That'd be dueide. Uh people can take
orally.
>> Yeah. The problem with that is uh my
friend had severe depression when he
took that.
>> Yeah.
>> It really [ __ ] him up and he didn't
realize cuz it he didn't understand that
that was the he was like what is wrong
with me? And he was getting suicidal and
then he got off of it and it just went
away and he's like oh my god I can't
believe that. This episode is sponsored
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That's betterh elp.com/jre.
>> Yeah. Well, I I I'm taking it for a
number of reasons, including my hair and
my prostate. See if I can keep it from
growing. But, uh, fortunately, I haven't
had that side effect. But, everything
>> it depends, right? It varies
biologically depending on the person.
>> Yeah. It's important when either of us
says that drug's good, that drug's bad,
people realize that you have to test it,
see, and with doctor's supervision.
>> Yeah, that was where where I was going
to get to was like because different
medications have different reactions or
different people's reactions to
medications, they they vary quite
wildly. So, like before you
make this public, like how how do you
determine whether or not this is going
to be safe for a wide variety of people
to reverse aging?
>> Oh, my drug um our drug that we're
making. Well, we will test it on a lot
of people before it goes out into the
the wide world.
>> And you've started testing it on people
so far?
>> Yeah, there are people right now who
have this these genes in their eye. And
how's it going?
>> Uh, I'm not allowed to say, but
>> can you wink twice if it's great?
>> Um, I would say that everything's uh on
target.
>> Okay.
>> Um,
>> that's good to hear.
>> Nothing bad to report.
>> Nothing bad to report.
>> Yeah, I think those might be the words
I'm allowed to say.
>> And is that the only clinical trials
you've used with any of these
applications for for humans?
>> So far, that was the first glaucoma and
also sudden blindness. Um, it's called
Nion, which is now twice as more
prevalent because of the GLP1 drugs.
>> Really,
>> it's not well known. Obviously,
companies don't want to talk about it,
but yes, sudden blindness has doubled
seemingly because of these meds. So, you
have to
>> Holy [ __ ] Sudden blindness has doubled
because of GLP1s
>> due to Nion, which is like a stroke in
your eye. And then your other eye can
go, which is pretty scary. and there's
nothing you can do about it. Hopefully,
our drug does work for those people.
>> And well, obviously correlation does not
equal causation, but it seems to be
>> Yeah, there's a a scientist at Harvard,
you could look up his work, um Joe
Rizzo. It looks like it's repeatable
across the planet.
>> Wow, that's terrible because there's so
many people out there that are just
telling everyone they should get on
GLP1s. Yeah,
>> I've seen that like by online people
like online podcasters saying everyone
should get on GLP1. This is a
groundbreaking technology. This is
amazing. It's going to transform
society. I'm like,
we just started taking these. The [ __ ]
are you saying?
>> Yeah, it's not risk- free. Same with ED
drugs.
>> Here goes. Recent study suggests that a
potential rare link between GLP-1
receptor agonist medication such as
ompic waggoi blah blah blah and a
condition called nonarteritic
anterior
what's that word iskeemic
>> iskeemic optic neuropathy
>> an eye stroke can cause sudden painless
loss of vision in one eye while absolute
risk remains very low anyone experienced
sudden vision changes should seek
emergency metal medical eval valuation
immediately. Well, very low is like
>> it's still in 10,000 people.
>> One in 10,000.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's
>> Oh, no. Total of 10,000.
>> Oh, total of 10,000 so far for how many
people are taking this stuff?
>> I think it's pretty
>> The drugs were 68.6
times more likely to develop this and
eight times more likely to develop
diabetic. What is that?
>> We only got the blurb.
Oh my god. Then wow.
>> Yeah, man. These [clears throat] things
are just they're just rolling out and
the people that are like super
enthusiastic and also they have some
sort of a financial interest in
promoting these things which often times
does seem to be the case with a lot of
these people. They have either stock in
these companies or some sort of a stake
in them.
>> Uh yeah, it's true. Though I will I will
say to counter that that the GLP-1 drugs
have probably saved millions of lives
already and they're pretty common. I
think it's 10% of people are trying them
and 25% want to.
>> Yeah. I mean they don't work for
everybody. I have a good friend of mine
that had a terrible reaction from it and
he was hospitalized and
>> Oh no. But I know other people where
it's completely transformed their life
and they've lost a ton of weight and
particularly people that just for
whatever reason the food addiction was
so incredibly strong that whatever their
constitution the way they're the way
they're designed the way they're built
the way they've evolved as a human being
they weren't capable of overcoming it.
They take the GLP1s and then they sort
of start getting moving and then they
lose all the weight. They start feeling
better. they start making a lot of other
positive changes. You get that momentum
which I I always talk about is which is
one of the most important things for
transforming your life. Everyone wants
to talk about discipline. I think
discipline is the primary that's the
main engine. But one of the things that
comes along with any kind of an exercise
program or changing your life program
where you you start getting positive
results is momentum. And momentum is
absolutely huge. Thank you.
>> Because then you start feeling soant
this is good. So, I think GLP1s are
fantastic for getting people going.
>> Yes. Everybody should hear this. It's
really important. I'll give you my
example. It's a classic case. I couldn't
fast for more than about a day. I wanted
to do more. I know that 3 days fasting
is good. A week can be even better, but
I couldn't do it. I was I don't have a
lot of willpower when it comes to this
kind of stuff.
I tried a Jelp1 receptor agonist. I gave
it and it was easy. I didn't even feel
like I needed to snack at night, which
is one of the things that I and many
people suffer from. But the fact that I
could do it, I went off the drug. I
didn't need it. But now I can fast for I
went for two weeks uh in a couple of
months ago.
>> It's easy now. I now that I know that I
can do it mentally, it's not hard at
all.
>> The momentum.
>> Exactly. I know what's possible.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. Um, you
are you still on a plant-based diet?
>> Mostly.
>> Yeah. I what I had I just had a a
conversation with a friend of mine about
this. I don't know how much of the
information that he was telling me was
totally accurate, but what he was saying
was that um he was told before he did
fasting that one of the be a runner, he
said one of the best ways to get into
fasting is to get your body into ketosis
first. He said, and what he thinks is
that a carnivore-based diet and what he
was told was a good way if you could do
that for a few weeks, it mitigates your
appetite. Like one of the things that
happens with a lot of these diets that
uh regulate insulin resistance is that
when you get used to consuming just fats
and protein, you don't have the kind of
hunger pangs that you have with
carbohydrates. Like when I if I go in a
bad streak and I'm eating pizza and
pasta and and I've done that in the
past. I don't really do that much and
all unless I'm on vacation.
>> In the in the past though, when I would
get hungry, I would get crazy hungry.
Like I I've got to eat now. I don't get
that at all anymore because I'm mostly
on a carnivore-based diet. Mostly what I
eat the like you look at the bulk of my
diet, it's meat and fermented
vegetables. It's meat and like kimchi
and sauerkraut and stuff along those
lines. And when I eat like that, my
hunger is very easy to control. And I've
gone 24 hours like like it's nothing,
not eating. It's like not a problem at
all. But that's the most I've ever
fasted is 24 hours.
>> Okay. Well, see if you can go for three.
Um it's really worth it. You feel really
great. Um ketosis is one.
>> That's what everybody says.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And you go into what's
called deep cleansing. It's called um
chaperone mediated autophagy or CMA and
a friend of mine in New York uh Maria
Corvo studies this and it cleans out a
lot of the old proteins in your body. So
ketosis doesn't just make you feel good,
you're actually renewing your protein in
your body and rebuilding it. And so I I
do that as a as an anti-aging thing.
>> What I find is the biggest benefit is uh
mental acuity. It it's a gi it has a
giant impact when I stick to the diet in
terms of my ability to form sentences
like recall information and just be
present in in podcasts.
>> Yeah. So in in in my podcast it's what
you do is really quite difficult. It it
you make it look easy. So when I'm when
I'm doing my podcast and often it's solo
so it's challenging. Um I forget things.
I have to remember hundreds of papers
for these things. They're quite hard. Um
either I'm going to fast and if I don't
remember to fast. Um I did an
experiment. I took some ketones. You can
drink these things, you know, right? So
>> there's the one uh the little drink I
think was ketone IQ. Ketone IQ.
>> Yeah. Fantastic stuff.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I use that.
>> I love that stuff. I do that. I take
that before I do UFC broadcasts a lot of
times. Yeah.
>> Um I actually took some before
>> because one that's great before podcasts
as well. One one of one more difficult
things that I do is the UFC commentary
because it's six hours
>> Uhhuh. Six hours of talking on air live.
Wow.
>> Yeah. And about fights and and I'm also
recalling fights and I'm also I'm seeing
positions. So I have to remember in my
mind how this is finished because like
in jiu-jitsu there might be I don't know
how many positions there are. There's
thousands and there's moves where I'm
like what is he doing? What is he doing?
Oh. Oh. Oh that's that that's the
provian necktie. I'm I'm looking at his
arms a bit. Like your brain is f I am
exhausted at the end of 6 hours and
[ __ ] starving. Like after the UFC is
over, I can eat so much food. It's I'm
so hungry.
>> But you take a little drink.
>> I take a little ketone. Little ketone
IQ. I take uh neutropics. I drink this
stuff. My friend Derek makes this is
Gorilla Mind. This is a um a neutropic.
>> Oh, I got
>> So it's a neutropic cocktail with uh um
uh caffeine in it. This stuff's really
good for a podcast. I also take Alpha
Brain. Alpha Brain Black Label is
phenomenal for that. There's a bunch of
different ones that I take. Uh the gum
neurogum. Neurogum is excellent for
that, too. But I just do [ __ ]
everything I can to maximize.
>> That's how you do it. All right. Secret
is now out. All right. It But what you
do is amazing. And I thought you were on
medapanyl or something.
>> No, I've I've taken that before in the
past. But uh the problem with that stuff
is I think I like it too much and I want
to take it all the time. I you know when
I used to take that if I had a gig in
San Diego and I drive home uh after the
gig and it was like you know one o'clock
in the morning when I'm done and then
I'm like I'll just go home and it's only
two and a half hours and I start making
the drive and you just get so tired. But
if I take New Vigil or Provigil before I
do that I would be able to drive no
problem. Put a book on tape on
>> what's that?
>> Can you sleep after that?
>> Oh yeah. It doesn't seem to affect your
ability to sleep which is really
interesting. It's not like caffeine. Do
you do it? Do you take it at all?
>> Uh armadapanil for talks when I'm you
know traveling.
>> Does it help you?
>> Definitely.
>> Would it like in what way?
>> Um it it gets rid of my jet lag and I
can focus.
>> My brain often uh is either scattered or
filled with facts that I causes me like
now to not be able to talk properly. But
if I'm on it, which I'm not,
>> I'm I'm on point every time.
>> For me, the best thing for jet lag is
exercise. There's something about rigor
rigorous exercise. It doesn't even have
to be long. It just has to be where my
heart rate gets really elevated like
above 150 beats per minute for 15 20
minutes. Like I have to really go hard
where I'm sweaty and breathing heavy you
know especially if I could jack it up to
like 180 190 like I'm doing like Tabata
sprints on an aine bike. That kind of
stuff completely resets me.
>> Yeah. hard kettle bell workouts. Like
I'll do like a hard series where minimal
amount of rest in between. So I'm really
pushing it. Once I relax, I'm back. It's
like it to it whatever it is where your
body just needs to like shake it up and
like get all of it out of your system.
It's like now I feel completely normal.
>> Yeah. Well, you might remember last time
we talked about hormesis. Yes. What
doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And
that's what you're doing. You're putting
your body into survival mode. So, one of
the reasons I eat mostly plants, why I
take enma and these other molecules is
to mimic that. I don't work out like you
do. Um, I should, but I don't. And, uh,
>> why don't you?
>> Uh, I think partly because I tell myself
I'm too busy, [laughter]
which is [ __ ] Uh, I need a I need a
partner uh who will motivate me. I think
that would help.
>> Maybe just get a trainer.
>> That's that's a solution.
>> You got some cheddar. Get a trainer.
>> I got some share. I was that money.
>> Money. Yeah. No, I can definitely afford
[laughter] one. Uh, yeah. No, you know,
it's on me. I actually I I will own that
that I have to get I just was explaining
this to my friend last night who's like,
I got to start working. I'm like, just
get a trainer. Get a trainer, someone
who's good, and that way they'll develop
a program for you. All you have to do is
just show up and do what they tell you
to do. Just do it. And it's mindless.
You could just like just go through what
they tell you to do and you'll just you
trust the process. You'll improve
radically.
>> All right. All right. Here's what we're
going to do.
>> Okay.
>> I'm going to take you.
>> Here's what we're going to do. You're
going to get me a jug of that [ __ ]
juice.
>> This stuff we'll [laughter] swap. All
right. And you'll be my trainer.
>> I'll be your trainer.
>> Well,
>> I will. I I've done that before with my
comedian friends.
>> Really?
>> Sure.
>> Yeah. I'll just come
>> I do it the right way where I take them
through it very easy. I don't have them
work out hard at all, especially in the
beginning. Everything is like nice and
easy. It's like a little bit of strain.
You're not going to be exhausted
afterwards. And we build you up. I'm I'm
a bu I'm a I I'm a firm believer in not
overt taxing the system on people that
are sedentary.
>> I really think it's a slow gradual
process. I I think you have to get
better the same way you got sick over
time.
>> Okay, good.
>> You can make radical changes in a short
period of time, don't get me wrong. And
even just a little bit of, you know,
moderately rigorous exercise, a few days
a week will a few days a week will give
you great improvements. But I'm not one
of those guys is like, you know, we're
going to do two hours today and you're
going to go to failure and you're going
to be throwing up in a garbage pan.
You're not going to do that again the
next day. I want you to do it again the
next day. I want you to have a a nice
workout where, you know, you're doing
like 10 push-ups and 10 sit-ups and 10
bodyweight squats. And then we're going
to do some of these kettle bell cleans
and kettle bell. Nothing hard. Like
everything's going to be like, okay, you
put it down, you're fine. And I want you
to leave rejuvenated, like you feel
like, oh, that was like exhilarating.
Nothing crazy. And then we'll slowly
start to add a little bit over time.
That's what I think the right thing to
do with people who don't work out all
the time. You can't just jump in and,
you know,
>> it's like fasting and skipping meals.
You just can't do a day or three without
practicing.
>> Well, it's also you're going to get
injured. And this is one of the main
things that happens to people that dive
right into the deep end of the pool when
they start working out is they get hurt.
They get muscle poles. They get
backachches. They get all these
different things that happen because I
think you just pushed your body too
quickly. You know, it's like you're
you're in boot camp. Like, well, you
don't have to be in boot camp. This is
not the way to do it. The way to do it
is like slowly build up and trust the
process slowly. Start by if you're
overweight like my friend Jelly Roll. He
lost 250 lbs. What did he do? Started
walking. Just started walking. Walking
around the neighborhood, walk around the
block, walk upstairs just slowly and
then change the diet and then add some
stuff and next thing you know you're
doing this and you and write it all down
too. That's the other thing. Write down
what you're going to do and write down
how you feel and then keep doing that.
And if you could do that all the time,
you'll start developing this like
momentum that we were talking about,
right? where you're like, "Okay, I'm on
I'm on the course. I'm on a process."
>> But it doesn't have to be like you're
you're exhausted and then you go to the
lab and you're like,
>> "I can't even [ __ ] concentrate." You
know, I was doing Tabata sprints on the
air don machine. Like, this is crazy.
>> Well, that's uh it's really good advice
and I'm going to take you up on it. So,
let's say I'm lucky enough to come on
the show again.
>> Yeah.
>> I'll wear a tight t-shirt when
>> Let's go.
>> Right. [laughter] So, 20 million people,
>> you have to get off that [ __ ] goofy
plant-based diet. Well, let's speak
about that because that's one of the
things we disagree on.
>> I'm on a plant-based diet because I've
seen a lot of work on animals at least
that plants promote longevity. I eat a
lot of protein.
>> It's interesting because you're not an
animal. You know that, right?
>> I'm not a mouse.
>> You're not a mouse.
>> I'm definitely an animal, but you're
human.
>> It's the most meat is the most
nutrientdense food that's available.
>> I love meat. I'm I love meat.
>> Eat it all the time.
>> I believe it. There are two there are
two states that we can be in. [laughter]
>> I should try meat and then we can see
>> 100%. You'll feel great.
>> I've been measuring myself with rings
and blood tests for the last 20 years.
>> You should try elk. I'll get you an elk
steak.
>> I'd love to try it. Sounds good. I'm not
against meat. I will eat it.
>> You'll eat it and you'll be like
>> Yeah. Don't get me addicted to meat.
>> You feel it right away like a [groaning]
[sighs and snorts]
all your synapses start firing. Your
body starts like Yes. This is what we
wanted, David.
Well, here's here's some science. Um,
which is what I do.
>> There are two states.
>> This is my my theory. There's the
abundance mode, which is very good for
health. You'll build muscle. You'll
you'll heal better.
>> That's meat,
>> right?
>> Killed a mammoth. There's adversity
mode, which is we're out of meat. We're
going to we got to eat roots and
berries.
>> That's adversity. We got to run.
Running, exercise, eating less. That's
adversity.
>> Both are good for you. This one is pro
survival. This one is progrowth.
This one is longevity. This one is
you're going to be stronger, fitter.
>> How do you determine that though in
terms of like what is longevity versus
what is just like health and vitality
currently?
>> Well, it's based on the last 30 years of
research in a variety of animals. And
>> this doesn't have to do with the blue
zones, does it?
>> No, I'm not.
>> Cuz you know that's all horit, right?
>> Uh I I read that recently. Yeah.
>> Isn't that nuts?
>> It's a lot of it's fraud.
Well, people have been records are hard.
>> Well, it's not just hard. A lot of it is
actual fraud where people were getting
checks for their grandpa and grandpa was
dead. So, they weren't writing it into
the government. They didn't expose like
this was the problem with Okinawa in
particular
>> is that they would have to in order for
these people to get taken off the list,
they would have to inform the government
that this person died and they just
didn't do it. And so they had this list
of people that they were counting in
their census that were like so old
really like this is crazy. What are you
people doing? Was 100 years old.
>> The oldest person in the world
apparently 122.
>> There's a theory not proven that the
oldest person in the world was actually
the daughter who was faking it.
>> Ah
>> to get to get taxes or avoid taxes. I
think it was in France. I hope that
that's not true.
>> I bet it's true. People are full of
[ __ ] Well, either way, the maximum
human lifespan is around 117 18, which
is still a lot more than we live.
>> And what's really crazy is none of those
people are doing everything right.
>> Exactly.
>> They're all smoking cigarettes and
drinking wine and having a good time.
And that's a factor that we really need
to take into consideration. Loneliness,
isolation, and sadness are one of the
greatest contributors to poor health
outcomes.
>> It's number one.
>> Is it really?
>> Yeah. Robert Voldinger at Harvard had a
study for I think it was 40 years. World
War II vets, they looked at everything,
blood pressure, cholesterol. The number
one thing that predicted longevity in
those men was having a reliable partner.
>> Yeah. So,
>> not just a reliable partner, someone
that you love.
>> That's true.
>> Someone that you like want to be around
all the time. You enjoy them. You still
enjoy their company, which is possible.
Most people don't believe that's
possible. Well, you're a role model in
that.
>> I love my wife. I I have fun with her.
Like, we I've been with her for a long
I've been married for 17 years. I enjoy
her. I enjoy hanging out with her. Like,
she's cool. Like, she's a fun and I have
friends that aren't in situations like
that. And it's it's so bad when you're
like I have a friend who just we were
actually talking last night. He just got
out of a crazy relationship where he's
dating this girl for seven years. was
chaos and this and that. And I said to
him and he was like, I he's 40 and he
goes, I don't think I'm ever going to
have a relationship again. He goes, it
was so bad. He goes, being single feels
so good. And I said, there's an old
saying, it's so much better to be alone
than to wish you were alone. And he's
like, yes, that's it. Cuz he was like
with this crazy lady and he was like, I
just wish I was. And he finally got free
>> and now he's like, I I think I'm ruined.
And I'm like, it doesn't have to be like
that. You can find someone that you
actually love and you really enjoy their
time. You you enjoy being with them.
It's possible.
>> There's good people out there.
>> But you gota you got to also be someone
that that kind of person wants to be
with.
>> That's the other thing.
>> Oh, for sure. And stress of
relationship. Um, we've seen in studies
that clock with those chemicals on the
DNA, it accelerates when you're under
stress or going going through a breakup.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, god. You see it too. Oh,
I've seen people going through divorces
and it's just like it takes decades off
of their life. They just look wrecked
>> and it takes a year or two for them to
like achieve equilibrium again.
>> It's hard.
>> It It is. It is. Uh I went through that
actually just during co when our family
got shoved in a house together and with
>> Yeah, it was brutal. It was unexpected
too.
>> Wow. That's the stress test, right?
>> It was super stress. It was super
stress. Um, funny without the pandemic,
we might have been able to make it, but
forcing us all to be in one little house
with no internet working well, it was
tough. Um, but any case, I'm I'm great
now. I'm very happy. So, but I I do know
how bad it can get and it's brutal.
>> Yeah, bad relationships can [ __ ]
wreck people. I mean, it can wreck your
health and but also it's not just
relationships in terms of your
significant other, husband, wife,
partner, whatever you want to call it,
but also bad relationships at work. Like
if you have a a tyrant for a boss and
you know and every day you're you're
getting you're you're working overtime
and you're getting yelled at and you're
you're on the phone and you're you're at
home trying to keep up with work and you
never get like that that kind of
relationship where you have like this
like antagonistic terrible relationship
with people that you work with. That's
bad too.
>> Oh for sure.
>> Your body doesn't differentiate between
romantic relationships and those kind of
relationships are almost equally bad.
>> Cortisol will be high. This will
accelerate you. I used to keep fish. Uh
I was one of those people at school and
the fish that got picked on by the
dominant fish were small, like color,
live short.
>> It's it's biology. If you're picked on
and you're stressed, you're going to age
faster.
>> Fortunately, uh I think you you're
probably the same at my age. Uh I've
managed to weed out most of the jerks
and I don't work with them at all.
>> I've got a great partner who we we have
a hobby of longevity together.
>> So that I'm I'm lucky in that regard.
Now
>> you found a new one.
Yeah, longevity specialist. Imagine
that.
>> Congratulations. Well, that's nice, too,
right? Find someone who just like thinks
the way you think and has similar likes
and interest, like you say. Yeah, that
definitely can help. Yeah, I know a lot
of my friends that are in really good
relationships, their their significant
other has the same hobby as them, you
know, like whatever it is, they both
like to climb mountains or whatever the
[ __ ] it is. Find a thing. But that
helps, too. So you actually enjoy
spending time together doing something
that you're both really excited about.
That helps too.
>> So relationships is one and the other
four major ones from that study were uh
don't smoke, don't drink, get enough
rest, um and get exercise. And that was
enough to extend by 15 years.
>> But what about those old people that
live forever and do smoke and drink?
Because that's kind of weird.
>> Well, there are 0.01%. They're not
examples of what
>> is that really what it is?
>> Yeah. It's just
>> so the majority of people who get old
and live to like centinarians like what
what are the common things that they
have?
>> Uh the big one is that they don't stress
a lot. They usually have a good sense of
humor.
>> Interesting.
>> Right. Uh they they haven't been
overweight and they say that they
typically couldn't remember when they
lost sick.
>> I wonder how much time Twitter takes off
your life.
Yeah, [laughter]
we should study that. It's already taken
a lot off mine.
>> It does.
>> And if you read the comments even more.
>> Yep. Exactly. I'm so much happier since
I swore off of all that stuff. It's just
not good for you. It's really, really
bad for you. It's also you're constantly
dealing with the problems of the whole
world, which I think is a lot for a a
human being that lives in a community in
a neighborhood. It's a that [ __ ] that's
happening over there really shouldn't be
a primary focus of your life like where
where you're in the moment actually
doing your life. It's not the same.
You're not in the same area as this
problem but yet this problem is
overwhelming. You're all day long life
>> and you're in fight or flight constantly
>> all day. All day and you're worried
about the climate. Oh my god. Like
there's so much there's so much that
freaks people out that it really
shouldn't be affecting you at all.
>> Exactly. And actually the world doesn't
change if you don't read it. So it's
it's
>> that's the key. That's the key.
>> But then you're like, well, you need
you're passing off the responsibility to
other people. You should get involved.
Like you should get involved. [laughter]
>> I'm going to be over here.
>> That's right. Well, if you focus on
doing something good and you're good at
it.
>> Yes.
>> Like yourself. I think that uh you don't
need to be doing more than that.
>> You can't focus on everything. And
anybody who tells you you can is a fool.
Or anybody who tells you what you should
or shouldn't be focusing on is a fool.
>> Yeah. A few years ago, someone uh at a
talk that I gave said, "You should be
working on climate change."
>> [ __ ] off.
>> After I cure aging, I'll get to climate
change.
>> Yeah. Why don't you go to China and tell
them to stop making coal factories? Shut
the [ __ ] up. Just shut up. You
No, you're not going to fix it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Somebody is. Somebody's working on it
and that's their goal. And God bless
them.
Good luck.
>> Yeah. Well, what what I try to spend my
day is efficiently helping the world so
that people ask me why do I study aging
in the first place and it really is that
I'm trying to please my grandmother like
some of us. Uh she was the one that told
me that uh I need to make the world a
better place. And she's gone.
>> That's what she said to you.
>> When I was four, it was it's been that
ever since. She told me two things.
>> Humans are evil. She lived through World
War II in Hungary and
>> Oh, wow. the Russians came in and raped
everybody, she said. And then uh so she
escaped to Australia and then she said
that the other uh the other issue is
that uh we don't do enough as humans to
better the world. And so I had that
stuck in my mind. Um she also, by the
way, said, "Oh, we all die." And I
thought that that that's not really
fair, is it? And that set me on this
path.
>> Make the world a better place and we all
die. And you're like, "Ah."
>> And what I've noticed with my kids is
that even if you tell them that, they
they forget about it because it's brutal
to think about death every day.
>> Yeah.
>> But for some reason, it's just stuck in
my head. And every day I'm like,
"Another 150,000 people are going to die
today due to aging [snorts] related
diseases."
>> So my lab is is missionoriented. If
we're a day late with something, it's a
lot of people that are suffering
potentially uh avoidable diseases.
That's why it's sort of understandable
that people like show up outside of your
lab and like [snorts]
like I need to talk to you.
>> I need this.
>> Yeah. Blind people want to get in the
trial. It's it's big and I think if the
trial works it's going to be a very
strange world especially for my lab and
for me. Uh but we'll see. And even if it
doesn't work this time, the science is
strong enough that we'll figure it out.
We will we will do this. It's just a
question of when. And so do you think
that AI is going to have a significant
impact on the kind of improvements that
you're able to
>> It already is. We're going super fast
and AI is has revolutionized biology.
It's revolutionizing everything, of
course, but particularly in biology
where we used to have to read 15 papers
a day. Now we can read a million if we
want. It's totally different.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. It's uh superb brain.
A 19-year-old came to my lab this summer
and the lab grows from 20 to 40 people.
And we're trying to figure out how do
these three genes reset the cell? How
does the cell remember what it was 30,
40 years ago? Where's that information
stored in the cell? And I've got this
theory that there's some new biology.
There's a record in the DNA somewhere.
And I gave him that task. I said, "Can
you just go to the databases of the
whole world, look at all the data that's
there is exabytes of data and see if my
prediction is true or at least you can
get evidence for it." Uh, two weeks
later, he came back and the whole team,
not the whole team, but five other
people were smiling. We have to show you
something, David. Right. Come in my
office. We sat down. He shows up on the
board on this uh LCD screen. I think we
found the smoking gun for what your
theory suggests. and he used AI to
process all that data and the AI came
back and said, "Yeah, you're probably
right." And there's a 19-year-old
straight out of high school who did this
>> that did something that the whole field
and all these professors and all these
fancy sirs could not figure out until
now.
>> That is phenomenal.
That's so promising. It's so exciting.
>> It is. I mean, the future really does
belong to people who can wrangle AI even
on their phone. I think people on their
phones are going to be making medicines
or at least designing them
>> or bombs.
>> That's the problem. And [laughter]
bioweapons, right? And you recently had
uh was it Anna on the show to talk about
bio weapons and this kind of stuff.
>> Uh that is a big big worry. I actually
had to disclose to the US government
when I first got here that I did have
the capability of making a boweapon.
>> The the Annie Jacobson episode uh that
we just did on bioweapons was absolutely
terrifying. Yeah. She's I mean she
scared the [ __ ] out of the world with
her nuclear war book and now she's
scaring everybody with her bioweapons
book.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's scary.
>> It is. Uh what what I've got is a
database of all known pathogens and new
ones that could come. So I'm trying to
do my bit there to help the world if it
happens again. Pandemic or something
unnatural.
>> Yeah. Well, that would be I mean, when
you think about diseases that people get
that just like wreck their entire body,
if you really do have an original copy
somewhere in their genome of what they
look like as a healthy person, and you
could switch that back on with a factory
reboot.
I mean, we could potentially get rid of
all diseases, which is just bananas.
>> And injuries or fix injuries, grow new
limbs potentially. There's a new paper
that just came out a few days ago that
showed that the tips of the fingers of
baby mice can be coaxed once they've
healed over as a stub to regrow part of
the finger. The
>> Haven't people done that before?
>> Uh yeah, they found just two factors
were enough. So, it's not that hard. The
point is we've got the instructions to
be young and to regrow body parts in our
body. We just don't use them.
>> That's nuts. So like a salamander can
grow an extra leg or a leg that gets
chopped off.
>> Yeah, I believe we still have that
capability. We just don't use it. It
just didn't make sense to regrow a limb.
It was quicker and safer to just heal it
over as a stub and move on. But
salamanders, which get their limbs
presumably eaten pretty often, maintain
that ability. uh so give us you know if
I wouldn't say that we could evolve this
but I think using a combination of our
technology plus this new technology that
we're seeing come out where these two
factors can grow new limbs I don't see a
reason why we can't become like a
deadpool where injury doesn't hurt us
aging can't hurt us and we can regrow
body parts
>> how far do you think we are away from
being able to regrow body parts
>> oh I mean realistically probably a
couple of decades but I I've seen enough
>> that's not that far
>> seen enough to know that it's doable.
>> Couple of decades ago was 2006.
>> Well, things are going super fast. I
mean, 10 years ago, we didn't even know
aging was reversible. And now it's in
humans.
>> That's nuts. Think of that. Well, 2019
came here, there was no AI,
>> right?
>> 2019, it was an idea that we had just
got the result in mice and I divulged
that to the world. Then it was published
uh and then we're in humans now. So if
it works then you know it's going to be
a very different world.
>> And you you feel very confidently that
some of this stuff is going to work.
>> Well it's going to work. I don't know if
this trial is going to be successful but
there's going to be a lot of people
doing these trials. I have some
competition now. Do you know about that?
>> No.
>> Uh so since I started my company life
biosciences which is doing the trials in
with ER 100 others have jump joined in
in the party. Uh so Jeff Bezos and
others have started Eltos Pharma. Um
they are based in three cities around
the world. They have a few billion
dollars to catch up. Um Sam Oldman has
Retrobio
and uh let's see, Brian Armstrong from
Coinbase, the CEO, started one called
New Limit, and they've got a lot of
money, all billions.
>> Do you think it's good that there's all
these people involved in this?
>> Oh, well competition.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not doing this for my
own personal benefit. I want humanity to
be changed the way it could be.
>> And the more people like Jeff Bezos, the
more people with a large bank account
that are invested in this, the better.
>> Fantastic.
>> And of course, a guy like Bezos, he's
balling out of control, why wouldn't he
want to live forever?
>> Well, what's left if you've got
everything else, you know? Well, also
it's like it's like if you've got the
amount of money that he has and you can
tackle all these different issues, you
know, like his space program that he's
working on, all all these different
things, like of course, why wouldn't you
want to do cool things? Like, what's
cooler than being able to grow limbs?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, what's cooler than being able
to cure all diseases and reverse aging?
>> Well, there's I don't think there's much
cooler that that's why I'm doing it cuz
that I think can be the biggest gift to
humanity is what you just said. So, I
don't know if I'll achieve it. probably
not in my lifetime, but at least I've
moved the needle and pushed the ball
ball globally in that direction.
I wonder if we're going to get to a
point in time where we can engineer
consciousness
in in terms of like find out like you
find out someone's a sociopath, you find
out someone's a kleptomaniac or
someone's an arsonist, like what
whatever it is, like if you could figure
out like what these little flaws are in
the way the mind works. If you can
completely map it out and go, "Oh, this
is the error. This is where you you're
not making these two connections."
>> Of course. Of course. This is all just
biology and engineering. There's nothing
that stops us. And this is the century
that we are able to control our own
biology.
>> Starting with cancer, heart disease, and
aging.
>> A true utopian world of peaceful people
in harmony, but healthy,
>> not peaceful.
>> I don't think world peace I think curing
aging is easier than world peace.
>> Well, if everybody achieved a state of
consciousness that allowed them to
understand that we're all in this
together.
>> Yeah. How do we do that?
>> Mushrooms.
>> Yeah. Well, there are there are certain
companies working on this.
>> I know. That's what's interesting,
right? Like Eli Liy is involved in
pharmaceuticals. Uh well, the
pharmaceutical company rather is
involved in psychedelics.
>> They just bought a tie for
>> I think it was like $3.8 billion. So,
they're all in with real capital.
>> Yeah.
>> I love it.
>> Yeah. Me, too.
>> That's great.
>> I love that they're doing that. We need
more of that. There's too much
depression
>> and anxiety in the world
>> and drug addiction. I mean, that's why I
went to the White House and got pre the
president to get involved in this
executive order on Ibagane.
>> Yes.
>> Because I've talked to so many people
that have had their life completely
turned around with Ibagane. so many
people that were uh opioid addiction and
also brain injuries, oddly enough, brain
injuries, all all sorts of TBI and CTE
that they've had like phenomenal results
from this bogatry, you know, which is so
crazy that this thing had been around
for so long and is a schedule one
substance in the United States for no
reason whatsoever. There's no risk of
addiction. There is no recreational use
of it. It's a horrible experience. I've
not not done it, but apparently it's
[ __ ] terrible and it lasts for like
24 hours. Like, no one's going to be
doing that for funsies,
>> right? Well, the question I think that
comes up with all of these drugs is, do
you have to have the trip and experience
the craziness
>> to get the benefit?
>> To get the benefit. And I don't think
so. I think you should be able to
separate.
>> Well, you know, they've actually figured
this out with LSD.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Do you know about this? Okay. So
they've engineered a a different version
of LSD that doesn't give you the
hallucinogenic effects but does give you
the the benefits in terms of like the
cognitive effects.
>> The at guys or someone else. [sighs]
>> I don't know what company has done this.
See if you can find that Jamie.
>> I think it might be a tie.
>> But what they've they've essentially
done and I think it's it's basically in
the lab work stage right now. I don't
think that's applied to humans yet. But
what they've done is engineered a
version of LSD that has all the positive
effects that LSD has in terms of like uh
introspection,
being able to like rethink and remap and
reset the way you view things, but
without like watching people's face melt
and thinking that demons are eating you
and all the the weird stuff that comes
with
>> it. Outstanding. It it it should happen
with with psychedelics the way it's
happened with all medicines, right? We
start with
>> something from the bark of a willow tree
and then we have aspirin,
>> right?
>> We're not eating bark anymore,
>> right? But sometimes the bark is the
really way the way to go, [laughter]
>> right? Unfortunately, sometimes that's
the part of the problem is these
pharmaceutical drug companies, they
patent these natural compounds and you
know use petroleum based synthetic
methods of creating these medications
now that they can sell and profit wildly
off of. Whereas really the best way to
do it is actually to get the plant.
>> It's true that there's the whole issue
though that if it's not approved, then
it's the wild west. You don't know what
you're getting,
>> right? That's true, too.
>> We need a middle ground. We need
something you can get fast on the market
that's known to be safe.
>> So, what we're going to need is mind
reading
>> cuz we need to know if people are full
of [ __ ]
>> That's what we're going to need. We're
going to need
>> got to work on that.
>> Yes. I think that's that's going to
change humanity more than anything. I
think you've got a good [ __ ]
detector.
>> It's okay. There's a few people that
have snuck through, unfortunately. You
know, some people they get through and
they're like, it takes a while and
you're like, uh [ __ ]
>> they're never coming back on the show.
>> Yeah. Well, there's that. It's the the
show, you know, you you learn a lot from
a person in about 3 hours. You know, you
can kind of after a while you can kind
of see little things and you have to be
forgiving and you know, you have to be
charitable and some people are just
nervous and they misstate things or they
exaggerate things or they forget
something, they get it wrong. But then
there's people that are just essentially
they really don't care about anybody but
themselves. And some of those people are
really good at pretending to be people.
They're really good at pretending,
>> you know. They're really good at
pretending to be like a normal person.
Oh, here's the LSG. LSD thing.
Researchers recently engineered an LSD
analog called, how do you say it? Plus
minus JRT that appears to keep many of
the LSD's brain beneficial and cognitive
effects while dramatically reducing and
possibly eliminating its hallucinogenic
trip in animal studies. So, it's almost
the same molecule as LSD, but scientists
swap the positions of just two atoms in
the structure. The subtle change makes
JRT bind more selectively to serotonin
receptors in a way that promotes
neuroplasticity, growth, and repair of
synapses, but minimizes hallucinogenic
signaling. That is that's incredible.
Anti-depressant. Look at this.
Strong anti-depressant effects at doses
reported to be around 100 times more
potent than ketamine in standard rodent
tests. Cognitive benefits. Improved
cognitive flexibility and performance in
tasks modeling the negative and
cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia.
Holy [ __ ] That's incredible.
When when and where do we get it?
>> Well, I think it's fairly recent.
>> Yeah, it's at a UC Davis study. They
just developed it. uh it's in mind.
>> Shout out to our AI sponsor Perplexity
for providing us with this information.
This is again I mean like we could just
get this information now through AI.
Like I mean this that AI for our show
has been gigantic. I mean just the
ability to just ask it a question
instead of Google searching and have to
go through all these different [ __ ]
articles. What does it say? What is
that? Who's right? What's this one?
What's the website? You just ask AI and
perplexity just gives us all the
information. So, uh, proceedings from
National Academy of Science researchers
at California of San Diego Davis, uh,
excuse me, Cal University of California
Davis, uh, reported the creation of JRT,
chemically modified version of LSD. So,
this is like what year?
>> So, 2025. So, last year.
>> So,
>> so it's exciting.
>> Five years away, but still, you're
right.
>> Is that that the timeline?
>> Uh, at a minimum, usually it takes that
long. Uh, but that's exciting. At least
the principle is there that you don't
need to listen.
>> Well, how about for schizophrenia?
That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, that
that is incredible because that is one
of the saddest things to watch somebody
fall into the grips of schizophrenia.
>> Yeah.
>> I've seen people fall in and come out,
which is interesting.
>> I thought for the [ __ ] detector, we
could have an AI that that either dings
or has a green or a red on your
forehead.
>> I'm pretty good at it, but I think no
one's no one's perfect at it. And I
think ultimately if we get to a place
whether it's a a technological
innovation or or what have you where we
can actually read the contents of
someone's thoughts. I don't think that's
outside the realm of possibility.
[sighs]
>> You'd need an implant, I think. But
>> Elon says the Neurolink's going to be
able to pull that off.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, you're going to be able to talk
without using words.
>> Like what? I think he's right, though. I
think if we all like lock into a hive
mind and uh and then if we develop like
through AI, if we develop a universal
language worldwide,
>> well, we already have that.
>> What do we have?
>> Well, the new headphones from a big
company that I won't name, you can
translate.
>> Translate. Yes, translate. But it's
translating to English if we just all
The problem with that is there's
context. There's all sorts of different
things that other cultures, different
languages, they they when it's
deciphered and changed and translated
into English, you lose a lot of the
meaning and the the context is weird.
>> If we develop a universal language,
>> that would be ideal. Uh, English is a
good substitute. I was shocked. I'm I'm
always shocked traveling globally how
many people can just speak English now.
>> Yeah, it's pretty amazing cuz America
rules. You're welcome.
>> Well, we have to thank Britain for that.
[laughter] America should say you're
welcome.
>> Yeah, they they they were they were
cute. They did a good job of starting it
out, but we took the ball and
>> started all over the world.
>> So, who's next? China.
>> God, I hope not. I don't want to learn
Chinese. That's too hard. All the
[ __ ] characters. That's ridiculous.
Even people that I know that could speak
Mandrin, they can't write it,
>> you know, to like to get to that level.
I have a couple friends that speak
fluent Mandarin and they can't write it.
>> Writing is
>> Yeah. Well, the the students in my lab
who come from China, um they're being
picked on by by the uh immigration, but
they don't want to go home. They love it
here.
>> I'm sure because they're stealing all
your secrets and bring it back home.
>> There's that. There's a lot of
regulation on that now as a scientist.
Oh, yeah. Do you know that? Yeah.
>> Oh, I could imagine. Yeah. I mean, it
has to be because that is an actual real
threat.
>> Exactly. So, the people that come
through my lab have to be vetted now,
>> right? But the people that come over
here and experience the kind of freedom
that you have in America.
>> Oh, yeah. I came here from Australia.
Australia is pretty free, but compared
to Australia, America is so different.
>> Yeah.
>> I can't go back.
>> What's the big difference?
>> That I feel I can do anything I want if
I just put my mind to it. There's not
social barriers. There's not monetary
barriers. At least for a white male like
me who's got a degree. I know it's not
for everybody, but I feel like if I want
to start a company, I've got a great
idea. I can do that here. Fat chance
you'll do that in Australia. People
aren't willing to invest in great ideas
down there. Not not often.
>> That's a bummer. Do you think that
changes anytime soon?
>> No. You the US is so unique. There's a
lot of money flowing. People are willing
to place a bet and even lose the money.
That's rare. Australians, most of the
world, if not all, people are scared to
lose their money if they have it. Here,
it's like, okay, I risked it. I helped
the world. I feel good.
>> It's a very generous country. Very. And
I love it here. It's when I arrived
here, I just felt, ah, I'm home. I love
hearing that from people that have come
from somewhere else because it kind of
reaffirms why uh people in America are
so proud of what this country is.
>> Should be. Yeah.
>> And that's why it bums me out where
people are so mad at America in terms of
I I get look in terms of foreign policy
and some of the things that are wrong
with America, but just in overall this
experiment in self-government is pretty
remarkable.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I watched the TV show. Was
it the American Experiment? Uh, came out
for the anniversary of 250th.
>> I haven't seen it.
>> You got to see it.
>> What's it on?
>> Uh, it's it's the founding fathers and
their lives and how they were fighting
and what what was going on behind the
scenes.
>> They were just young kids. They're in
their 20s, 30s.
>> I know. Isn't that nuts?
>> Yeah. Just Benjamin Franklin was the old
dude, but they were so young. But but
they were they were in the middle of it.
They kind of realized they were making
history, but so many things could have
gone wrong. We would not have had the
United States if just a few votes went
one way or the other
>> and a few wars.
>> Yeah.
>> A few of the different battles that they
>> Exactly. The US was losing the war
against Britain badly.
>> Yeah. They
Yeah.
>> Yeah. We don't thank the French enough,
actually.
>> I know, right? Somehow they became our
enemy.
>> Yeah. Remember during the the Gulf War
they turned French fries into freedom
fries because people hated the French?
>> Yeah, but everyone hates the French
because they're so arrogant.
>> Sorry French. I have some friends who
are good good friends of French.
>> I think generally when people are
arrogant it's because they did something
[ __ ] awesome.
>> Well, in the 1800s they did. Yeah,
>> they conquered [clears throat] Europe.
>> Not not sure if that's awesome.
>> Here's a fun perplexia search I just
did. I said, "Do Americans have a risk
gene in
>> a risk gene? One of the best studied
variants in the dopamine receptor gene
DRD4,
specifically the seven repeat 7R version
is associated in some studies with
novelty seeking, impulsivity, and higher
financial or social risktaking. I wonder
if I have that gene for sure. This seven
probably not. Who knows? The 7R variant
is unevenly distributed around the
world. Its populations in populations
across the Americas, it shows up in
roughly 48% of chromosomes studied.
While in East Asia, it's found in only
about 2%.
>> Wow.
>> Whoa, that's crazy.
>> It all comes down to genetics.
>> Evolutionary work suggest it became more
common in groups that migrated further
after leaving Africa. And those lineages
are strongly represented in the Americas
today.
>> That actually I was thinking of the
people that you know had the balls to
[ __ ] come here. Now were your balls.
You don't have to do that much, but you
can still have balls to gamble and take
risks. And
>> that must be But then Australians should
have it.
>> That completely Well, sort of. You guys
got forced there. Like they they moved
everybody over there because they were
criminals,
>> right? This this DDR gene uh that you
just saw, the uh was it DDR4?
>> Uh I know a bit about it because I'm
writing it in in my next book. DRD4.
Thanks, Jamie. Um, I call this the FU
gene because I'm trying to figure out
what makes humans special over other
animals.
>> And this is one of them that we are
seekers of explorers. And uh, it's it
turns out turns out that this gene is
turned on in teenagers. It gets
eventually switched off. Not totally,
but that might be why teenagers say FU
to their parents.
>> Yeah.
>> But it's a way genetically to get them
out of the nest. Like, oh, I can't stand
these parents. They suck. They're
idiots. I'm out of here. That's in this
in this gene.
Well, it's also um
I as a parent have been very aware of
not doing that to my kids, like not
forcing them into something that they
don't want to do or pushing them in any
general direction, but rather
encouraging them to seek out their
interests and encouraging them to just
like take ch and if I ever correct them,
if I ever get upset about something, one
of the first things that I tell them is
I've done all everything that you've
done. I've made every mistake. I've I've
[ __ ] up. I'm You're You're smarter
than me. I've [ __ ] up everything. I've
lied to my parents. I lied to teachers.
I
>> I've done everything that you're doing.
So, it's this is not a unique thing. I'm
just telling you from my own personal
experience and my perspective, this is
why I think cuz I love you and I want
you to do well in life and I I just want
you to recognize this. And that's how I
correct my kids.
>> I love that.
>> It's never like you listen to me cuz I'm
your father. There's none of that [ __ ]
>> Yeah. The old way we were raised doesn't
work.
>> No. And it makes you resentment, but
also probably makes you want to do
better than your parents. So, it like
motivates you in a certain way. Like my
parents were not risktakers at all. And
my whole life I've been like a wild risk
taker. That's
>> really same. Yeah. I I was resentful
that my father didn't have enough
ambition. Now he's a great guy. We're
we're best friends actually. It's been
the greatest thing for for me. But uh
one of the things I did with my kids,
you reminded me, is uh he's 19. Um, he's
a well-built guy because we were going
to the gym for a number of years. I've
tried to train him in health, but he he
spent the summer with me. He's literally
still working for me this summer to help
with the podcast and the magazine we're
about to launch. And Benjamin's his
name. He's the best kid. But he slacked
off. He was like, "Ben, I put you in
charge of social media. You haven't
posted in a week. What's going on?"
Well, you know, I slept in blah blah.
So, I had to think, am I going to get
mad at him like I would a normal
employee, or do I treat him differently?
and I decided to treat him differently,
probably because he's my son, but I
didn't want to ruin ruin the
relationship. But what I did was I said,
you know, I really think you can do
better. I think everything you've done,
the weightlifting, the the calculus,
you're amazing, but in this you're not.
So, what's going on? And it worked. We
become closer. He's really into it. He's
doing a good job now.
>> That's great.
>> So, that's the way to do it. I think you
can't be too hard on them. Can't say you
[ __ ] up.
>> Yeah. I mean, that kind of can work, but
it's a blunt instrument and it doesn't
work on everybody. And it also develops
resentment and and they also they they
miss out on experiencing your
perspective as a like for them to
understand that you are just a person
who's lived longer than them and that
you can help them navigate this road.
>> Yeah. So, you don't have to make the
same mistakes that we did. And that
that's why you're helping them. You're
talking to them about this not because
>> you're just a mean dad who likes to
[ __ ] tell the kids what to do cuz
we've all experienced that. I mean, I
had friends growing up with fathers who
[ __ ] scream at them and throw things
and and beat them and it's like, God.
And then you just grow up [ __ ]
traumatized and always resentful and
angry instead of just recognizing that
like, oh, I'm so fortunate that my
parents have this perspective where they
can explain to me why I'm going through
what I'm going through and how they got
through it.
>> Like a mentor. You're not their best
friend. You're their mentor.
>> Yes.
>> Best friend doesn't work either.
>> No, that doesn't work either because
that just allows too much shenanigans.
You know, you have to have some rules,
you know, you have to have some some
sort of regulations.
>> Yeah.
>> But you also
>> Your kids turned out well.
>> What's that?
>> How'd your kids turn out?
>> Oh, they're great.
>> Great.
>> I'm so so lucky. So [ __ ] lucky. I
mean, I I'm feel so fortunate. They're
so smart
>> and ambitious and driven and so it's
wild. It's wild to watch, you know, and
talented
>> and it's um and also like we never went
through that period where um they hit
teenage years and they hate you
>> like that. I experienced that.
>> God, that's so nice. I mean, my
youngest, she get upset at me sometimes
about certain things, but she bounces
back quickly. It's never like some kids
where they just grow to hate their
parents. Like
>> the RD4 gene, uh, maybe they don't have
strong one.
>> I don't know about that. I think it's
how you communicate with them. I really
do. I think that's a big factor. You
have to communicate with them like you
truly care about their development. And
the most important thing I think the
most important thing I think is that I
always tell them whatever you've done
what whatever mistake you've made. I
made way worse mistakes. I was like I am
not coming at you from a a flawless
person you know. I'm not coming at you
from the perspective of someone who like
you're an idiot. I figured that out. You
should figure it out. Like no. I
whenever they from the time they were
really little anytime I had to correct
them I said I did everything that you're
doing. everything.
>> I I threw my food on the floor, too.
>> Yes. All All the above. Whatever [ __ ]
stupid thing you've done as a kid, I
guarantee you
>> that is great advice. Really great
advice. So, I I hope everyone listening
hears that because I I actually had to
learn the hard way. My first kid, I did
what my parents did, which was you can't
say that.
>> Yeah.
>> And my first is a lot more rebellious
and distant than my third, for that
reason.
>> Isn't that interesting? Yeah.
>> Yeah. It It actually is really true.
I've seen it.
>> Yeah. And it's I thought it was going to
kill their motivation, but it doesn't at
all. Well, I thought like, you know,
making things easy for them and not
being strict. Like maybe it's good to be
strict cuz then you just have this
determination to I'll show everybody. I
don't think that was my thing as a
child. Like I'll [ __ ] show you. But I
don't think everybody needs that. I
think you you're much better off having
a healthy relationship with ambition
where you're excited about things
because you're passionate about them and
you you find
great reward in being creative or being
enthusiastic about something.
>> Exactly. And and open their eyes to the
world that exists.
>> Yes.
>> You know, we used to do work experience.
You go and do a job and that's your work
experience.
>> The reason I wanted my son Ben to work
with me is he can see how what it's like
to be an entrepreneur and
>> build something and and be excited and
work is super fun. Get into it.
>> Uh I think a lot of kids just don't get
that experience. They don't know what's
possible
>> and just showing them the world is what
we can do as parents.
>> That's awesome. Yeah. And you know, I
mean,
>> some people don't have that at home,
unfortunately. But that's one of the
cool things about the world that we live
in is that kids today have access to so
many different perspectives now because
of the internet. There's so many
different podcasts and YouTube
conversations and different things where
they can just take a little tool from
that. Just take a little piece from that
and apply it to the way they interact
with the world.
>> Yeah. Um, for sure. And I would
encourage parents to give their kids
stuff to read.
>> We talked about social media, how that's
just addictive. I saw how my kids wanted
to just scroll through their phones then
then read. And if they can't read a
book, give them a magazine. I subscribe
to Nat Geo, National Geographic for my
kids. And I think get them used to
reading because it's going to be a lost
art if we don't.
>> I know. Isn't that nuts?
>> I I maybe read 10% of the things that I
consume. I I consume so much in audio.
uh just for time reasons because there's
so much there's so much time where I'm
driving my car or I'm working out or I'm
in the sauna or I'm in the hyperaric
chamber or I'm in the red light therapy
>> that's reading three are re
>> it is similar but I think it's only like
70% of reading
>> I don't think it's 100% I don't think
you get the full effect but it's still
way better than not doing it
>> you know but I'm I'm aware that like
sitting there concentrating actually
reading a book without hearing hearing
another person's voice talking. There's
another mechanism. There's another thing
that's going on that's uh it's a
different way you interact with the
material whether it's non-fiction or
fiction.
>> Yeah. I I like the fact that I can
listen to you and I'm doing something
else and I have to sit down,
>> can move, go for a walk.
>> Yeah, that's for me it's it's just I'm I
have too many interests. I have way too
many things that I do. So, it's very
hard for me to just allocate a certain
amount of time to sit there in silence
and read. Yeah, I use reading to fall
asleep. That's a good way.
>> It does do that, right? That's kind of
nuts how well it does that.
>> Yeah. Although I am finding it's harder
to read now that my eyes aren't young.
Need some of my uh jeans myself.
>> I've tried that. Does it work for you?
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, I mean people are
skeptical about this and they think I'm
full of [ __ ] No, I don't need reading
glasses anymore.
>> Really?
>> Yes. I had reading I always have these
[ __ ] things laying around. I don't
even use them anymore.
>> That's awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of
science now for red light.
>> I can tell you as a regular user for
multiple years,
>> it took a while. It took like I was
waiting for it in the beginning like
what the [ __ ] And in fact, and not only
that, in the beginning, because I don't
close my eyes in the red light bed. I
thought it was making things blurriier.
I was like, "Oh my god, am I [ __ ] up
my eyesight like listening to these
assholes?" Uh, but no, it just took a
while. And then over the course of like
many months, I started seeing some small
improvements. And then I started seeing
some pretty big improvements over the
course of about a year. Whereas now I I
it's not my eyes aren't perfect. They
aren't like they were when I was 20. But
they are way better than they were when
I was 50.
>> How often did you have to do that?
>> I do it three times a week minimum.
That's what I try to do. But sometimes
I'll do it five days a week. I just get
in there and it's 20 minutes. I lay in a
light bed, close my eyes, open my eyes,
whatever. It seems to work on your
vision even if you wear a blindfold.
>> What about people that can't afford a
bed? Can you get little devices?
>> Yes, you can get Well, there's a company
called is it's called JV, right? J UV.
Is that the name of the company? They
were our sponsor at one point in time.
That's how I started it. They had uh
it's just a light panel that you stand
in front of those. Yeah.
>> And that that works too. that. Um, but
this one, the one that I got a red and
near infrared light therapy devices,
JWV, J O O VV, medical grade light
therapy devices. Uh, I had one of those
and that's when I started seeing
benefits,
>> but the um the big one that I got I got
from Gary Brea from his company and it's
it's a like a [ __ ] tanning bed and
you lie in it and that one's amazing but
that's expensive but I don't think you
have to have that for that those kind of
improvements. also improves collagen,
your skin, makes you look better and um
the but for me the most obvious and
profound was the improvement in my
vision.
>> Well, it makes sense. The the science
behind red light wasn't there 10 years
ago and people were questioning it. But
now we know if you shine certain
wavelengths like near infrared on cells,
>> the mitochondria, which are important
for reversing aging or slowing it
>> get revved up. Um it's actually related
to Viagra. long story but Viagra and red
light have something is in common and it
does help mitochondria and that's very
important for the eye the mitochondria
actually the most important in any part
of your body uh the eye is the most
important part and part of the reason we
lose our vision is the mitochondria
don't make enough energy for the eye
>> how come you haven't done red light
therapy before then
>> well I do but not uh routinely so I have
one of those bricks that I turn on while
I'm in the shower
>> and I have a red light cap for my hair
which there's some evidence. [laughter]
>> My wife has one of those.
>> It works.
>> Looks like a [ __ ] alien.
>> What I do is I Yeah, it does. It looks a
little bit silly.
>> I don't wear it in public, but um I do
lower it and I look at it and it shines
in my eyes and on my face
>> in the hopes that it might help be help.
>> Yeah, they have one that you wear like
Dr. Doom like fits over your face and
like blast red light in your whole face.
>> I definitely feel a bit weird afterwards
and I can see speckles, but I I think
the science says that it can help. Well,
all I know is my own anecdotal
experience and for me it has radically
improved my vision.
>> That's a good tip.
>> Yeah, it stopped. Well, it was my vision
was degrading like it was it was pretty
o like I first started using like
reading glasses like a onex like it made
it a little better. I'm like, "Oh, this
a little better. Makes it clearer." And
then I went to two and then I was using
2.5, right?
>> And it made it better, but it was like,
"God, this is annoying." And then if I
would try to like read an email and it I
didn't have my reading glasses, I
couldn't read [ __ ] Now crystal clear.
>> Yeah.
>> No problem at all.
>> Well, uh so my my latest show is about
the eye and how to protect the eyes's
health and so there's a lot you can do
actually supplements um red light other
things. So
>> I take supplements for it too. I should
mention that I take um no I have no
affiliation with these people but Pure
Encapsulations makes a uh a supplement
called macular support and I take that
and it's a combination of luteine and a
few other things.
>> Yeah, there was a a trial uh a while ago
that showed that taking zanthine and
others aanthine lute luteine they're
good for uh the eye. So you can get
products like that.
>> Do you take it?
>> Not that brand but yes I take something
similar. And has it helped you at all?
>> I don't know. I haven't done an
experiment.
>> Right. Well, if you weren't taking it,
maybe you would have more degeneration.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, I've got near
perfect vision. I don't need glasses.
>> Do you really?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Near perfect.
>> Near perfect. I mean, I think low light
>> low light is with me. Yeah. Where I'll
go to a restaurant with my kids and they
can read the menu and I'm like, that is
so embarrassing. You can read that? How
do you even read that? I can't read
[ __ ] Like, do you know why?
>> Why? Well, this is this is what I think.
So, we know from my lab's work that the
retina because it has tens of thousands
of endings that that pick up the light.
As you get older, those nerves lose
their identity and they're not working
as well. And what we do is with our
therapy, we can restore those nerves
back to being functional nerves. And
that's why mice and monkeys that lose
their retinal function get their perfect
vision back again.
>> We're reminding those cells that have
forgotten how to work. So in your eye
and my eye were 22 months apart that
those nerves about half of them have
forgotten how to work properly. So we
want to fix that and go back to being
young. It's not that our nerves are
gone. They're not dead. They're right
there and we can restore them.
>> And that's going to be true for a lot of
organs is that the cells are still
there. They just need to be reminded how
to work again.
>> What are the potential negative
consequences of this kind of work? Like
when you when you sit up at night and
you worry, I hope it doesn't do this. Is
it cancer? Is that the big one?
>> Yeah, it's though we've done a lot of
work to allay real fears. It is possible
that if we go too young, we can cause
displasia, which is cells doing what
they shouldn't, or if they multiply and
spread. That would be careful. You make
the cells too young. Like what I was
saying before about don't turn me into a
baby,
>> right? We don't want to go there. That's
what Yamanaka did and got the Nobel for
it. But that's not good here. But we we
never see ourselves turn into stem cells
again. We can't we we had mice that we
left it left the gene therapy on for 21
months in the eye and 19 months in the
whole body of the animal. And if
anything, they had less tumors than the
ones that didn't get treated. M
>> and we actually know from a wonderful
student in my lab, Natal, uh she's a PhD
student. She found that when you turn on
these three same genes, not in the eye,
but in cancer cells and tumors growing
in mice, human cancers growing in mice,
they shrink. So, we think it might
actually help for cancer as well, which
was a nice surprise.
>> Wow, that's incredible.
>> It makes sense, right? If you wake up a
cancer cell and it says,
>> "Crap, I shouldn't be growing. I should
be a you know a liver cell or or
something similar. Uh now it kills
itself. So we see that the cells wake up
they realize what they were 30 years ago
and then they kill themselves.
>> What what is on the horizon in terms of
like what would you like to accomplish
or would you like to work on that you
can't do currently?
>> Well, lots lots you know funding in my
lab got completely cut last year. Uh and
we've managed to survive through
donations. We uh
>> Why' the funding get cut? Was it a US
aid thing?
>> You remember uh there was a spat between
Harvard and the federal government. All
of the funding to Harvard Medical School
got cut.
>> Was that during the time where the
president was defending those
anti-semitic comments on campuses?
>> Yeah. Uh well, allegedly, I'm not
getting into the politics.
>> No need to get into politics, but during
that whole thing. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So what what we we I almost had to
fire most of the people in my lab during
that episode. It was quite scary, but I
god
>> raised don. So now my lab survives on
donations. Uh not on federal government
money. Thank you friends. Thank you.
Thank you.
>> Well, the thing is you've accomplished
enough where people are like, I think
he's on to something and I want to live
forever.
>> Well, I'm lucky. Most scientists can't
raise money like that. So really, really
it's a blessing. And now I'm raising
money through a foundation to help other
scientists survive. But yeah, it's it's
been a blessing. But your question um
was what do I wish I could do?
>> Yeah,
>> I wish I could go faster. I wish I could
try multiple approaches so we don't just
have one shot on goal.
>> Um it's going slower than I would want
with a big injection of cash. We could
do a lot of trials, a lot of different
tissues. We could do a whole body re uh
rejuvenation as well. Do you have a
website where people can donate?
>> Um, I do. It's lifespan.com.
>> So, if you go to lifespan.com,
>> there's a link there you can donate.
>> Foundation. And we're raising money for
this type of research.
>> Is it taxdeductible?
>> Uh, depends on how big the donation is.
Uh, for $10, you get the new magazine
that we're putting out and you learn all
about uh how to live longer building.
I'm hoping to build the world's largest
longevity community of millions of
people who can learn how to really live
longer and build healthcare from the
ground up because top down from the
government hasn't worked.
>> Yeah. Actually, I have I have a gift for
you.
>> Where you at?
>> I made something for you that's unique.
>> Oh, I brought it here.
>> This is for you, Joe. As a thanks to all
the support you've given me and the
science over the years.
>> First edition
lifespan magazine, ladies and gentlemen.
Look at that.
>> It's written by scientists
>> cover. It's like a velvet cover. What is
this?
>> I figured you might like that. Inside is
the magazine. And
>> what is this material? It's beautiful.
>> Velour.
>> Velour. Oh, velour. Of course.
>> At great expense. No, the magazine
doesn't come with velour. That's just
special for Joe
>> as a thank you present.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Most most science out there is written
by reporters who don't know what they're
talking about. And uh so we want we
wrote this for the public and you can
believe whatever you read in there.
>> All right. Beautiful. And the lure so
you have to trust it.
>> So that's at lifespan.com. You can
subscribe. Get that every month just for
10 bucks.
>> I like the take at the bottom. Life's
too short. Let's fix that.
>> That's our slogan at lifespan.
>> Slogan.
>> Yeah,
>> that's an awesome slogan.
>> Uh so it's it's a it's a community. It's
the show. My show is also called
Lifespan on YouTube. But the magazine is
a passion project. I want to put out
something that people love. It's
beautiful, right? It's like National
Geographic. By the way, the just today,
this is no, no joke. It seems crazy, but
my lab's research is on the cover of
National Geographic.
>> Oh, that's awesome.
>> That just came out today. They they
heard, by the way, at Nat Geo, they
said,
>> "You going on Joe Rogan?" I went,
"Yeah." They goes, "Right, we'll put it
out early." So, you can now read about
my lab's research on Natio as well
today.
>> That's very cool. That's very cool. So,
you would just like to do more have more
funding, do more that that's the thing
that you wish you could be working on
now, just having more different more
different studies and tests running
concurrently.
>> We could go so fast with AI because it's
spitting out new drug candidates all the
time that we can't test. It takes years
to get through. So, with money, we could
do a lot more trials and put these
through different diseases much faster.
>> If you had no regulations, like an
island of Dr. Maro type deal.
>> Yeah.
>> Will you let you know?
>> Well, at the risk of getting kicked out
of my university, um theoretically we
could very safely do more animal studies
and with those best candidates put them
into humans quicker.
>> Right now, it takes years. It's taken us
close to 10 years to go from the first
discovery in my lab in Nature magazine
to now. But that's too slow. People
dying 150,000 a day on this planet. It's
terrible. So, I would love to have the
resources, you know, like Jeff Bezos and
others.
>> Yeah.
>> My my company, by the way, even though
we lead the pack of all these guys, um
we're really small. We're we're a pretty
small little outfit in uh in Boston. Uh
we've raised a lot less money, but we're
because I think we're focused. We have
and we started earlier. We're doing
pretty well.
>> That's the big one. You started earlier.
You have a lot of momentum on your side.
>> Yeah. But we I think we we we could have
a big impact on aging in our lifetime
with more money directed in general at
the field, not just me, but spread it.
And so the money that we raise from the
magazine is going to support other labs
as well um and students who can find
these medicines quicker. So if you in a
perfect world and you had unlimited
resources, you would just run a bunch of
different clinical trials and studies
concurrently and
>> yeah, AI is feeding us molecules. We put
them into mice, we go to monkeys, we go
to humans, and it would just be fast.
one of my friends um Alex Zakaronov uh
he has a similar uh company but not on
exactly what we do not on reprogramming
but he's able I think he's on his 35th
drug but he's driven by AI and robots
his whole lab is robots uh at least he
says they are and then uh goes into
humans and his company is worth billions
um that approach applied to what we do
would be incredible M that's best case
scenario. That would be incredible.
Well, I'm hoping through this
conversation that people are going to
reach out and I'm hoping through this
conversation that people realizing like,
oh well, so much work has been done and
so many breakthroughs have been made if
they had more access to resources, more
access to different whatever you need,
you know, and that you could run all
these different studies.
We we could we we're our budget in my
lab is only it's almost three three and
a bit million. It's not much, right?
Compared to what impact it could have on
the planet, which is trillions of
dollars saved just in the US alone. So,
it's it's a little bit of donation or or
getting a magazine, the impact would be
life-changing for all of us.
>> Who doesn't age? Who doesn't get
diseases,
>> right? And who doesn't want to feel
better?
>> Yeah. It's also like so much you can get
so much more done if you feel better.
>> Well, we we take it for granted until we
feel sick and it's like a I forgot what
it's like to feel well.
>> Exactly. Exactly. I had a day a week and
a half ago where uh I came back from
Italy. I was a little jet-lagged. I
could didn't sleep right and I worked
out really hard a bunch of days in a row
and I was working constantly and then I
had one day I was like I kind of feel
like [ __ ] like I better not do anything
today.
>> And I, you know, after I was done work,
I just watched TV and relaxed. I
>> went and I was like, I can't wait to
feel better again.
>> Well, imagine what it's like being old.
>> Yes.
>> And frail. That's every day.
>> Yes. Or sick.
>> And right now, you can't do anything
about it.
>> Yes. Yeah. And while you're healthy, you
take it for granted. And that's the real
sin. Like you're like, "Ah, I'm fine.
I'm great." I mean, this is what people
do when they go out drinking, right?
They they take advantage of the fact
that uh it's worth it for a good time.
Just poison myself for a night.
>> Well, it's not worth it because that
also accelerates aging
>> big time, right?
>> Says what I tell my kids who like
alcohol like most kids. You know, you
might feel better in a in a few days,
but the memory of that is going to be in
your body.
>> Yeah.
>> Think you can drink. It's, you know,
it's fine to get drunk once in a while.
Uh but not a lot. Not constantly. I used
to drink once a day and I do not do that
anymore cuz the the data is
incontrovertible that it affects the
brain, even the size of the brain if you
drink constantly consistently.
>> I took eight months off of no alcohol at
all and I felt a lot better.
>> Exactly.
>> I started drinking again one night. I
went to dinner with my wife and had a
margarita. I was like, "Oo, I think I'm
back."
>> Oh, really? Well, I
>> So, I drink now. I do not get drunk. I
haven't gotten drunk. This was over a
year ago was when I had a drink again, I
think. I think it was a year. I'm not
sure. But point is uh I have not been
drunk since then.
>> Yeah,
>> I will have a glass of wine with dinner
or I will have uh a like a shot of
whiskey before I go on stage like a
little bit, but I do not get drunk
anymore.
>> It's just not worth it to me. The
feeling afterwards is so terrible the
morning. And especially for me because I
work out so much. When I wake up, it's
like that workout's going to get done.
Okay? Whether I feel like [ __ ] or not,
that workout's going to get done. and
this is going to be rough.
>> And you got the sweats. It's hard,
>> right? Versus when I feel great, I love
the workout. I'm excited. Like, I look
forward to it. Even when it's hard, when
it's over, I'm like, "All right, let's
eat." And I don't feel bad. I feel good.
And it's like, why am I giving up that
for A FEW HOURS OF, [screaming]
YOU KNOW, it's just not worth it. It's
not worth it.
>> Yeah. Well, you're funny even without
alcohol, but I'm I'm not. So, I've lost
a lot of my humor. [laughter]
But the the there's nothing better than
feeling great, right? And if you can
make it your hobby
>> of working on your health and your
longevity,
>> you'll enjoy it.
>> Yes.
>> It shouldn't be a chore.
>> It'll also directly affect the other
things that you love cuz you will have
more energy. Your life energy, your
vitality is so important for anything
you're doing. Whether it's a creative
thing or an intellectual thing, like
anything that you're doing, if you have
more energy, you'll be able to apply
more energy to that thing. It's that
simple. You're building a bigger gas
tank for yourself. You're building a
larger engine. And that's what you're
doing.
>> Exactly. Mentally, physically, you can
do so much when you feel good. You jump
out of bed. If if you wake up and you're
tired, woozy, you know, your eyes are
puffy, that's not how it should be when
you wake up. If you're getting and sleep
is important for longevity, of course.
If you're getting good deep sleep, then
you should wake up and you feel great.
>> Yes.
>> You don't even necessarily need a cup of
coffee, but it's not bad if you have
one.
>> I like coffee. I'm not going to stop
drinking it.
>> No, man.
>> I don't give a [ __ ] what anybody says,
>> right? It's good. And
>> there's also like conflicting
information. Some people say it's good
for you. There's benefits.
>> It's good for you. Come on.
>> That's what I say.
>> Oh, it really is. Anyone that says it's
not doesn't read the list.
>> Well, I would imagine an overabundance
of caffeine is not good. Too much is not
good. But that's what
>> true for everything.
>> Too much salt will kill you. You know,
you pound of salt, you'll be dead in an
hour,
>> right? You can get away with very little
sleep actually as long as it's deep
sleep because what it's doing is
clearing out the misfolded proteins in
your brain and the toxins. We know this,
the glimpmphatic system. And if you get
deep sleep for, you know, an hour,
you're actually going to wake up much
cleaner, healthier. And what I've been
able to do with some work is figure out
how to get deep sleep every night,
efficiency on these rings that say above
90 sometimes.
>> I like you say rings, cuz you're wearing
two aura rings.
>> Uh,
>> or one aura. Okay. Why do you wear two
different rings? Um
because when I've got two, neither of
them is correct. No, the [laughter]
the truth is some of them uh some of
them are really good for sleep, the
others are good for heart. And so I've
this one's my heart and this is my
sleep.
>> What is the difference in the companies?
Which one's which?
>> Um uh you don't mind me saying who they
are?
>> No, I don't care.
>> Uh this is an Aura, the fat one, and
then the thinner one is called Ultra
Human.
>> Ultra Human?
>> Yeah.
>> And which one is good for what? Well, I
find Aura really good for sleep. That's
their specialty. Um, and then the heart
for ultra human, my cardiac age.
>> Oh, okay. So, it's just like giving you
data all the time.
>> Yeah. And they're getting even better
cuz they I don't get paid by these
companies, but I do like that they pop
up with AI information now.
>> Mhm.
>> Have you noticed that da da or I noticed
that you ate a meal last night that
spiked your glucose? You know, and this
one I have a monitor on right now so I
can see what's going on. Anyway, but
yeah, they're they're becoming like
>> You are [ __ ] monitored, bro.
>> I am.
>> Two rings and a patch.
>> It's a It's a hobby. It's a hobby. But
you learn a lot. And I put one of these
on my son and he stopped eating bad food
for for a long while.
>> Really? Cuz he was just recognizing the
impact that it had on his body.
>> It's good for kids. Now, I wouldn't say
slap it on a kid without pediatrician uh
recommendation, but it was amazing what
happened when he could see the crap that
was going in his mouth was doing to his
blood sugar.
>> Really,
>> it was amazing. I I think it's a great
learning tool if nothing else,
>> right? Just to have actual data. I know
a lot of people it's changed their
opinion on alcohol particularly the aura
ring when they look at their sleep
>> because even just a couple of drinks
before you go to bed like a couple of
drinks at dinner and then you realize
like oh god my sleep was all [ __ ] up
because of those drinks.
>> Yeah. Lay off the medapanyl too for me
anyway.
>> Yeah. Some medafyl [ __ ] with your sleep
as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I have to work really hard to sleep
well. There's there's quiet time.
There's relaxation. the lights are
dimmed. Um, I think about a happy place
rather than work. I had to do that
because for 50 years I was burning the
candle at all ends. I was really burnt
out and so I've fixed that now. I don't
worry.
>> So, are you one of those guys that like
dims the lights in your house a couple
hours before you go to bed, prepare,
stay off your phone,
>> all that stuff.
>> Well, I don't stay off my phone as much
as I want to, but um yes.
>> You wear red light glasses or anything
like blockers?
>> I used to. I haven't found a big
difference.
for myself. But um interesting fact that
isn't well known. If you block blue
light during the day or just stay
indoors, there's a guy in Japan uh who
says that what what happens is you get
shortsidedness.
>> And really cuz the mice that lack the
ability to sense violet light get
myopia, short-sighted. And he's got a
device that indoors you can shine this.
that our modern world, the LEDs and
being indoors means we barely get violet
light. And that would been that would be
so interesting if that's what's causing
us to have have to wear glasses.
>> Wow.
>> And he claims that people that live out
in the countryside that see blue light
all the time cuz they go out don't have
as much need for glasses.
>> That actually makes sense. Well,
particularly like artificial light and
then also light that's from a close
source. Like one of the things that uh
if I do if I'm if I'm tired and I lay in
bed and I try to read something online
on my phone, it hurts my eyes. The
room's dark and it's like it irritates
my eyes where it never irritates my eyes
normally, but it's like at the end of
the day, you know, I guess I'm more
fatigued and so then
>> and you're trying to focus on screen.
>> So like now think about that when people
are doing it all day long. Maybe you're
doing it at work where you have to stand
stare at a computer monitor from 3 ft
away or or closer and then you're
looking at your phone all the time or
you're working from a tablet or you're
watching television. It's like you're
constantly staring at these light
sources that are artificial.
>> Yeah. And also keep in mind that the
muscles have to focus. It's not natur
you don't naturally look this far. You
naturally you relax you see out there.
But
>> to look here, your muscles here have to
be straining for hours and they get very
tired.
>> And I guess eventually they age to a
point where you cannot keep it up.
>> And sometimes I do this to see better
though. [laughter]
>> Well, it it it all makes sense if you
think about it. Particularly like if
your eyes are accustomed to only
focusing on things that are close. I
mean, that was what they would say about
reading when people would have glasses.
Oh, you [ __ ] up your vision reading,
which
>> I used to think was nonsense, but I'm
like, well, kind of makes sense if you
spend all day long focus even even
though it's on a screen. You're spending
all day long focusing on a book that's
only a foot from your face. Yeah,
>> it does make sense.
>> And the lens gets really inflexible,
>> right?
>> And I'm seeing this with my father. He's
otherwise in perfect health at 87, which
is amazing. But it's his eyes that are
failing him.
>> Maybe you should get him a red light
bed.
>> That's a great idea. Yeah,
>> I'm going to do that. He's arriving
tonight actually from Sydney. He's uh
>> Get him a red light bet, man. Because
I'm telling you, there's not a thing
that I've done that's impacted me in a
more obvious way than that in terms of
like something that's hugely important.
>> I'm going to do it. And uh I mean he's
into science. He's been taking Naman,
resveratrol, metformin, exercising,
going he goes to the gym two or three
times a week, walks six months.
>> Great. I He's a role model at 87 with no
diseases, no aches or pains.
>> He's traveling the world. He was in
Japan two weeks ago.
>> Wow.
>> Coming to Coming to Boston.
>> That's That's so cool. I love hearing
about people that are older that just
keep on top of it and stay active and
stay alive and enjoy life.
>> Yeah, exactly. He's a great role model
and it what it shows is he was an
average guy till he was in his 60s and
he figured I was he was going to die in
his 70s probably cuz everyone in my
family dies young cuz we've got pretty
bad genes but he's just taken life by
the horns and just is running with it
and has not physically aged except for
his eyes in the last 20 years.
>> That's incredible.
>> And that's not an exaggeration. Anyone
who's seen him
>> uh knows he walks, he moves, he travels,
he does everything like he was when he
was 40. That's where where things like
resistance exercises are so important
because it maintains bone density,
maintains muscle mass, maintains your
ability to just get around and do
things.
>> That's the other reason to to do that. I
mean, you're you're going to be really
strong when you're older and you won't
fall. And if you do fall, you'll bounce.
You won't break a bone. And he he's like
that. He's been working out at the gym,
mostly strength training, but balance as
well. It's very important to maintain
balance. He's better at the gym than me
at 87.
>> That's incredible. That just shows how
weak I am. [laughter]
>> Yeah, I got to go to the gym. How about
next time if you have me on,
>> you're going to be buff.
>> We'll get you a trainer. You're in
Massachusetts. [clears throat] There's a
ton of trainers out there.
>> Great.
>> It's a deal.
>> We'll find you someone. We'll find you
someone. Three days a week. That's all
you need. The other days you could do
stuff
elective, do stuff that you want, you
know, but three days a week, get a a
personal trainer and have work out with
them.
>> Right. You're you're on. All right.
>> I will let you know when it's going or
you help me. I can hear though that
there's probably a few million people
right now screaming, "David, just go go
to the lab. Forget about the gym. You
need to make
>> Well, it'll help your lab work. It'll
help everything. It'll help the amount
of research you're able to do. You'll
have more energy. You'll be more excited
about things." I'm sure you've seen
those MRI cross-sections of people's
tissue where they uh take like a
70-year-old man who's sedentary versus
70-year-old man who's a marathon runner.
It's [ __ ] extraordinary.
>> I've seen my own. Uh there's there's too
much fat in the muscle. Got to get rid
of it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's really extraordinary
when you see those images like those
really bring it home.
>> And the bone changes. Bone turns to fat
too.
>> Uh parts of the bone. So you got you got
to have the strength training for sure.
Keep
>> bone strong.
>> Yeah. 100%. Strength training is it
that's mandatory.
>> Yeah. And then the Do you do a lot of
aerobic exercises?
>> Yes.
>> Good. Yeah,
>> I saw the training bike.
>> Oh, yeah. Well, you saw my hypoxia
machine that I just got installed today.
>> Yeah. Um the the the hypoxia thing, what
it does is it um replicates 14,000 ft
above sea level
>> and you train in it. And it also has a
heat element, so you could ramp the heat
up to 115°. So 115° and and 14,000 ft
above.
>> Much pitch kind of stuff.
>> Yeah. You're going to hell. That's what
it is. you go straight straight to hell.
>> Feel like it,
>> but it should work, right? Epoxy is
great for muscle.
>> Yes. And for adaptation. That's the the
big thing. And uh my friend Roman who
installed it, who's owns one of the guys
from the company, um they it's a very
they're very specific with this protocol
with in terms of monitoring your heart
rate, when to do it, when to push, how
much time to spend, and how you do it.
And it's very scientific in terms of the
application on athletes.
>> Yeah. And it has a my friend Adam
Greenree turned me on to it.
>> Okay.
>> Uh fellow Australian um and uh he uh
he's a a big hunter and does a lot of
mountain hunting and he said there's
nothing he's ever done that's had more
of an impact on his cardio. So it's been
phenomenal. Sounds wonderful actually.
Um there's a lot of science behind that.
Um you probably know it. The best
results are when people are either
having too much oxygen or not enough.
Mh.
>> And you might say, "Well, that's weird.
Why does it matter?" Well, you you got
to get out of your com comfort zone,
hormesis, we keep talking about,
>> and there's a a big study in Israel
where they put people in these
hyperbaric chambers.
>> I've done that protocol.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. 60 sessions of 90 minutes over uh
90 days.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I have one in my house.
>> You do?
>> Yeah.
>> Because the the data is
incontrovertible. Better wound healing,
better memory,
>> increase in telmir length.
>> Yeah. I saw that one. That that's the
Israel study.
>> Yes.
>> What I thought was interesting was when
I I went over there myself and sat in
that thing.
>> Um they made a joke over there in
Israel, by the way. They said this gas
chamber here that you going into made by
Germans. I thought that's not a funny
joke. Don't say that again. [laughter]
Anyway, uh I probably shouldn't have
shared that. I I did go into the chamber
and uh what I what I found out and was
that they believe what I believe which
is it's not so much the high pressure
that's good for you, it's the coming
down that mimics hypoxia which your room
will mimic.
>> So the lack of oxygen or the perceived
lack of oxygen from a high state is the
benefit.
>> Interesting.
>> And that makes a lot of sense. You're
going to grow new blood vessels just
like Viagra uh is going to open things
up. We actually had a paper uh 2012
that found that one of the supplements
that I take, which everyone knows about,
NMN, could allow animals to grow new
blood vessels by getting rid of a
protein that accumulates with aging. The
bottom line is we could mimic uh this
lack of blood vessels with this pill,
but by exercising it's it's the same.
What I really believe which is is barely
talked about in the medical
establishment is that a major reason we
get sick when we get older is lack of
blood flow. It's rarely talked about,
right? Vascular dementia, second largest
cause of dementia in the world. Blood
flow. And it's the easiest to reverse.
You just do exercise or take
>> one of these PD5 inhibitors, Viagra. Um
or you take my stuff which is anaman
which we think also works
>> or all the above which is probably the
best approach.
>> Uh I'm two out of three [laughter]
hopefully soon three out of three but
yeah you know to protect your brain
which is the most important because you
don't want to be old and demented.
That's that's worse than anything.
>> Keep the blood flowing in your body.
Remember that blood flowing is
important.
>> Yes. Couldn't agree more. David, you're
a treasure. I really appreciate you.
Thanks for being here. you've been so
kind and thank you for getting the word
out here about the great science that's
going on.
>> Oh, my pleasure, dude. I'm so happy
there's someone like you out there doing
this. I mean, it's it's such an enormous
benefit to people that are listening to
the world and you're doing you're
literally doing God's work
>> and we'll we'll try to do more.
>> Thank you very much. Um lifespan.com
is the website. Please, folks, if you
you're so inclined, go donate. It'll
really help. It'll change the world.
>> David, you love you [music] too. Thank
you. Bye everybody.
[music]