Kim Dotcom, thank you very much.
Thank you very much for doing this.
Um, how much privacy do
we have as
citizens of New Zealand or the
United States?
Not much.
Because the government
is surveilling everybody.
Yeah.
How are they doing that?
They have massive surveillance
programs that
are designed to catch every
phone call,
video call,
everything.
And you do, yeah.
What is the purpose of that?
Why are they surveilling their own
populations?
Because they
can create a profile
of their citizens
and then use
the data to
basically put the
people in categories and
influence them
as well.
So it's not just surveillance,
it's also
mind-eating.
In terms of
elections or something.
Okay, so you
believe the government is
tailoring its propaganda to
the population based on
profiles that they've assembled like
Facebook does for advertising.
Yeah.
So if they want, for
example, support
for a war,
they can use this system
to
convince people.
Interesting.
How do you get out
of it? How do find privacy
in a panopticon
like this?
Don't be connected to the internet,
it's the only way, yeah.
Don't be, but if you're not
connected to the internet,
then you can't communicate with
people except in your living room.
It's true, but it's
a high price to pay if
you're online.
You have to know
that everything you do
is being watched and
listened to.
Why is there no way
out? Why is their no phone
or laptop or tablet
that allows me to communicate with
you without being spied on?
Because the U.S.
Government has a lot of
fingers in the
technology, so
every website that
you visit, every tool
that you use, every
hardware that you use is
controlled by the
U S government board.
Yeah.
So this is not a new phenomenon.
You were indicted, I think in
2011, 2012,
a long time ago.
What year was it?
In 2012, yeah.
2012, so 14
years ago, what you
were doing, you're basically
allowing people to
upload large files privately on
the internet. I think that's what
you're doing.
Yeah. And that was so threatening
that the U.S.
Government tried to put you in
prison.
No, what was really threatening
was I gave
money to WikiLeaks and
Julian Alzahar.
So the US
government saw me as
a person of
interest because of that.
And everything that followed
is because of
my support for
the truth.
For Julian Assange.
When Julian came
out with the video Collateral
Murder, maybe you
remember that,
I was touched
by it and gave
a lot of money to WikiLeaks.
And then what happened after you did
that.
I was charged with copyright
infringement.
So what my users uploaded
to my website,
they said I'm responsible
for that.
But wouldn't Facebook be responsible
for every criminal who uses a
meta product?
Wouldn't Google be responsible for
any criminal who uses their search
engine? I mean, this is
a new, I've never heard of this
principle before.
Yeah,
the big difference is
they did not give money to
WikiLeaks or Julian Assange.
So what did
they charge you with and what was
the penalty?
They charged me with
RICO-X, so
they not only say I'm
a criminal because
I allowed people to
use my websites
for infringement,
they said I planned it
with other
people, stupid.
And what were the penalties
for this?
Or they want to put me in jail for
186 years.
I'm sorry to laugh,
186 years for copyright
infringement?
That's what you get if you support
Julian Assange.
Well, I do support Julian Assad,
so I hope that's not coming for me.
So, whatever happened to the
charges?
Or they want to extradite
me from New Zealand
to the United States.
Yeah, are they
still trying to do that?
Yeah Even
after my stroke, they're
still trying
Are you worried that they'll be able
to?
Oh, they would want to.
I have no doubt,
but I don't
know if they can,
because I'm
not the same person
anymore after my
stroke.
So if they
really want to go ahead,
they are up for
a big challenge.
What would happen if you were to
use your money to
build a phone that
was truly private that the U.S.
Government could not listen to?
I did something like
that when I was still
the creator of
Mega.
So I had an encrypted
communication tool,
but now who's
running Mega is
no longer
trustworthy.
Yeah.
Hmm.
But why hasn't anyone done
that?
I mean, it seems like the one thing
we could use
to regain our freedom is
a communications, a simple
communications device that's
actually private.
And then you ask to come.
So if you put out
an encrypted device,
then the government will just send
you a letter saying you
have to give us a big door or go
to jail.
You know, this is legally
possible in the U.S.
The government can just send
your letter to say,
give me a big draw.
And what if you say no?
They put you in jail.
So it is illegal
in the United States to communicate
privately?
No,
they say you have freedom of
speech, but you don't,
and you know it's a joke.
Does any country have freedom of
speech?
You have a certain
degrees of freedom
of speech, but it's
not like it
used to be, you know, where
your privacy is protected.
Under the UN Charter,
we are all protected,
you You know, the US just doesn't
care.
And because the US,
we
know this from Alfred Snowden,
it's fine on everybody.
Everyone else is, you
know.
We're often assured that Christians
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Is that true?
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Thanks.
It's, uh, I'm not sure most
Americans understand any
of this or any communications
apps,
signal WhatsApp,
iMessage, or any of them actually
secure.
No,
not even signal.
No, no, no.
No, they're.
Signal is the worst.
How is signal the worst?
Because everyone is using it.
And the US government is laughing
because they have a big door.
But I mean, people with, I
happen to know, with real secrets
use Signal and they're convinced
that no one can hear or
read them on Signal, but
they're wrong, you're sure of that.
Yeah,
the show signal is not secure,
there's nothing I would recommend
other than not
using any communication
tools at all.
Really?
So, if you wanted to,
I don't know, organize resistance
to tyranny, you couldn't?
No, no, you can't.
Have you given up?
Being watched now.
How will AI change
this picture?
AI is very
dangerous because
it will get access
to the US
database for
this kind of data
mining.
So the AI will
know everything about everybody.
Huh.
And there's no way to stop that.
Don't have AI.
Ah, yeah, you don't have
internet,
it's the only way.
Why is the U.S.
Planning on building so many data
centers?
It's already
building huge
data centers because
it
collects about 10
petabytes of data a day.
So it's a lot.
Yeah, all communications.
So, why is the United States
building so many more data centers
than China is, do you know?
You can't
say that because you're
being told that.
You know, China is not far
behind the U.S.
When it comes to AI.
You're only being told it's
propaganda.
You know Obama
made it legal to
propagandize U.
S.
Citizens. S-s-so-o-o You
can't believe anything they say.
Are American media outlets
part of that effort to
propagandize the public?
Yeah, of course,
you know, whoever controls
them,
controls the public.
So any access to
the media today is controlled.
Now.
So, in the U.S., there's been a rise
of independent media.
Some of them have big platforms,
reach a lot of people,
and they're, well, having
conversations like this.
They're against the program.
How long can that last, do you
think?
It's okay that
there's independent media
and you are
one of them,
so it's very good to have
you all, you know, but there
will be a crackdown sooner or
later on everybody
that is still not
controlled.
Yeah,
and what can people do to
fight back against that crackdown?
Not much
that you see the
power of
the government
is very strong.
So there's not too much
you can do about it.
You don't seem very hopeful,
are you?
It's a reality.
What can I tell you?
Are there any free
countries or what is the freest
country do you think right now where
people can say what they think with
the most latitude?
I think Switzerland is
very good, yeah,
Switzerland,
because they have dialect
democracy,
not a representative
democracy, so the
people decide.
It's people power.
I bring that to
New Zealand, this
election, with
the Freedom Party.
We will have direct
democracy available
here.
Do you think that direct democracy
will spread to other countries?
I think it's the only way because
politicians
are not honest people.
They only look for how
to make a lot of money,
you know, so
a direct democracy is
the answer.
Do you think that the war
in Iran will
change America's place in the world?
What does the world look like in 10
years?
So the U.S.
Is struggling to
remain number one,
you know, the unipolar
system that
the U. S. Had for many
decades, they are
fighting for it.
But, um,
the, the U.S.
Is... Too much
debt. They're going down.
There's nothing that can prevent
that.
So I think in the next
few years we will
see a lot of
negative things in
the world because of that.
What kind of negative things
So So the rest
is highly dependent
on the U.S.
Not going under.
You know,
the war on Ukraine will be lost.
The war on Iran will be loss.
USA will go into
a big depression because
of the debt.
I think
financially the world
is heading into turmoil.
Yeah
How is the war in Ukraine resolved?
What does that look like?
On, it looks like now
on the battlefield,
you know, so Russia
will win against
Ukraine and
I don't think there
will be a settlement.
Do you believe that NATO will
continue to attack Russia?
Hmm
I think the
attacks on Russia will
continue for many years.
I don't see
the US and
Europe giving up.
So I think what
Russia has to prepare
for is a
bigger war.
A bigger war directly with
the United States and Europe?
With Ethiopia.
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Ever get the feeling that your phone
is listening to you?
You mentioned something in a
conversation, and a few hours later,
you get an ad for that very thing.
Most people assume their phone is
spying on their conversations, and
it may be, but most of the time the
truth is even worse than that.
All of the apparently free services
you've enjoyed, you've actually paid
for, but not with money.
You've paid for these with your
privacy.
5 billion consumers are
in our identity graph, 5 billion.
How many people are on earth?
7 billion?
2 billion to go.
Every search, every message,
every purchase, every location
becomes part of a digital dossier
that is bought and sold and analyzed
by companies you have never heard
of. You know nothing about them,
they know everything about you,
and we can prove that.
By the end of this series, you will
be upset because you will understand
how the surveillance economy works
and what you can do to protect your
privacy.
The world is watching you,
exclusively on tuckercarlson.com.
You think that this will evolve or
devolve into a direct
conflict between
NATO and Russia where
Russia is hitting Europe, Europe is
hitting Russia?
Yeah,
I think so and
who wins
Russia, of course,
because Europe has no
armies,
you know, NATO is totally
less tiger.
Yeah, why
would the Western
powers why would NATO want a
war with Russia? I've never
understood that
The alternative is
the U.S.
Loses, and if the
U S loses,
it will go down.
You know, the vast has
invested a lot in.
U.S.
So all the debt is owned
by debtors.
Europe is a big debtor
to the United
States.
So if the U.
S. Stock markets, for example,
go down,
all the European companies
that Listen in
the U.S.
Are also going down.
So we are
talking about a
loss of maybe trillions,
you know.
It's not something that the
best can
do.
They want to
prevent the
US from going under.
I think, I understand
that, and I'd like to see the U.S.
Not go under also, but I think
they're accelerating the destruction
of the United States.
This is having the opposite effect.
If you wanted to wreck the U S and
bring the empire to its knees in the
most humiliating, painful, expensive
way, this is what you would do.
Yeah, but the debt has
now reached levels that
are unsustainable.
So it's just
a matter of time,
you know, that to run
the US government
costs 20 billion
a day.
Impossible it's
impossible that's
right what what is
the end of
the Iran war what does that look
like
Iran will win because
the US has no weapons
and no army to invade,
you know.
You wonder where all
the military money
went because the
U.S. Has the biggest budget
for the military,
yet they can't
invade.
So I
think Iran will win.
Yeah,
and then what happens to the United
States does the US
Let's get out of the Middle East.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm
What happens to
American politics like what
direction does it go?
Do you think from your perspective?
I think the only way
to save America
is for the
people to vote directly,
not through politicians.
The only way
I think to save
America is a
direct democracy.
Do you think electronic
voting machines are honest and
reflect the will of the
people to vote?
I go into them.
I don't trust them.
Yeah, I don't trust
them because they are
able to be manipulated.
Yeah.
You say that is fact you know
for certain the electronic voting
machines can be manipulated
Yeah, they can
So why does the U.S.
Still have them?
Mm-hmm
waiting for the right time to
use them, I think.
Yes.
So that's kind of grim.
Do you see a risk of a nuclear
exchange in
Ukraine?
Because if the US
goes down,
you know what is left.
39 trillion of debt
can never be paid back.
So it may
take the rest of the world
down with it.
And so how do you get to nuclear
weapons from there?
Who uses nuclear weapons do you
think?
I think the U.S.
First against Iran
and then against
the world primarily
Russia and China.
But you know, I
saw this coming.
This is the reason why I
am in New Zealand, because
it's in the middle of
nowhere.
It is the middle of nowhere.
When did you see this coming?
I don't know
could be many years,
could be tomorrow, I don't know.
But you saw this years ago,
you believe this was going to
happen.
Yeah,
okay, yeah, yeah.
I did.
I brought my family to
safety.
Yeah
Whatever is safe.
Are you safe?
I don't know.
Maybe if I'm
extradited to the US,
I will die in a nuclear
holocaust,
I think.
Oh, so you're, you're.
That's coming.
Yeah
do you think it's likely that israel
uses nuclear weapons
Why does
Israel have nuclear
weapons in the first
place?
Because they spied
on the U.S.
For the technology.
And then they
started their own nuclear
program.
Everybody in the world knows
that they have nuclear weapons,
yet they go to war
against Iraq,
against Iran, trying
to prevent them from
having nuclear weapons.
You know, the first country
that should give up
nuclear weapons is Israel.
Yeah.
I don't think they're going to.
No, of course not.
Can you explain, you said at the
outset that, um, you
were indicted and now they're
trying to extradite you because you
supported Julian Assange,
Julian Assange famously printed
American
secret documents and videos
on WikiLeaks on the internet.
Um, but the
U S government seemed very focused
on killing him.
Why was he such a threat?
Because he was selling the
cruise and he got in the way
of the plans of
the U.S.
Deep state, you know.
So anything that
he has in
terms of support was
attacked.
Yeah.
Why, why do you think Donald Trump
after spending 10 years
saying he wouldn't start a regime
change war with Iran did
in February start a regime change
with Iran?
Donald Trump is a big liar,
so anything he says,
he just said to become
president.
I wouldn't believe a word he
says.
He's the biggest liar in
the world.
What do you think his goal
is? What's his agenda?
Why is he doing this?
Oh, I think he wants
to become more
than the
president of the United
States.
He wants to make history,
you know.
I think a
nuclear war with him is
very likely because
of his
narcissism and
his character
flaws.
But starting a nuclear war
would eliminate everybody.
I mean, there would be no history
after that.
Yeah, but he is eight years
old, so he
is looking for
the
exit.
And you think nuclear war.
Is this the exit?
Yeah.
Is there anything that can be done
to stop that?
Not much.
Hmm, if you want me
be a revolution in
the United States,
you know,
not have a fool like
Trump be president.
Do you think the deep state agrees
with Trump on the question
of using nuclear weapons?
So you need to understand
one thing.
The deep state has
a big budget for
keeping Russia and China
surveilled.
So if
they have no longer the
enemy of Russia and
China, the US
deep state loses 40%
of the budget.
So they need to keep
Russia and China,
the eternal enemy,
to make money.
Yes.
So, so really a
nuclear war is not in
anybody's interest?
No, of course not.
No, Of course not?
Do you think that Europe,
where you're from, you're obviously
German, does
Europe have a future as European?
If they make
peace with Russia, yes.
If they
cut ties with
the US, yes If
the US keeps
them as
a vessel state,
they have no chance to
survive.
Yeah, do
you believe Putin is secure in
his job?
Putin has
over 80%
approval rating in Russia,
so I think it's pretty safe
here.
He's pretty safe.
And last question, how have
you been able to
keep from being extradited
when New Zealand is a small country
without a meaningful military, the
United States wants to extradite
you, how've you been to convince
the authorities in Auckland
not to send you to the United Sates?
Not convince the
authorities,
it's a process,
you know.
I'm fighting extradition
wherever I can.
So my lawyers are
fighting it and using
the process to
fight it because that's
all I can do.
Yeah Well rooting for
you and for the world
Kim DotCom.
Thank you. I know you don't do a lot
of interviews and so I'm grateful
you did this one.
Yeah, and Thanks,
no problem.
Thank God. Great to see you.
Thank