Hunter Biden, thank you for doing this.
>> Tucker Carlson.
>> I haven't seen you in 11 years. It
though I've talked about you.
>> [laughter]
>> As you know.
>> In the meantime.
>> In the meantime. Yeah.
Um and then I wake up one morning and
you're doing Candace Owens.
>> I love Candace.
>> I do I do, too. I do, too. I've taken a
lot of abuse for saying that, but I do I
know her and I and I do love I think
she's a great person.
>> As a person, yeah.
Forget the the politics and
and and anything. And largely why I'm
I'm sitting here. Uh we've known each
other for,
you know, quite tangentially for 30
years.
>> Yes.
>> Is that
she as a human being is a really really
good person. And um
uh and thoughtful and uh
generous and uh
has a deep faith and um and I just
vehemently disagree with some of her
positions. And
it used to be that way.
>> I remember.
>> Remember? I mean, when [clears throat]
you and I knew each other
it wasn't as if our politics were much
different.
>> Right.
>> And uh
but everything has um everything
changed. And I and I
I attribute it to one thing. We can get
to that, but
>> What's the one thing?
>> Donald Trump. I think he I think he
I everybody says, you know, he's a
symptom of the disease and the reality
is is that I think he's one of the most
transformational
uh individuals in
uh our political history for all for all
for uh
for ill. And um
I think he had such an opportunity to do
great things and he just decided that
all he was going to do was for himself.
And um
But anyway, regardless. Well, I mean, we
we got we got 2 hours to
we're from the same place.
Um
>> [clears throat]
>> I grew up with your with your high
school girlfriend, I think. So, I mean,
I you know, we're I'm very familiar with
the world that you're from cuz I'm sort
of from it, too. And I noticed the
change during Obama.
And I'm not blaming Obama. I'm not
blaming any I'm but the society changed.
It was like all of a sudden
if you didn't like Obama, you were a
racist.
>> Yeah.
>> And I felt like in our neighborhood that
was dividing. It's like you couldn't say
anything about Obama that wasn't
positive.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you remember that?
>> No, I mean, I and
I think that I had a completely
uh
probably different perspective on that.
Um
>> [clears throat]
>> but I don't um
I don't discount if if you say that you
felt that way.
>> Well, it was before that. Like if it was
Clinton, yeah, you know, I knew a lot of
Clinton staffers and you could be like,
"Really, Monica Lewinsky?" And they'd be
like, "Yeah, Monica Lewinsky." Or Bush,
you know, "Really, the Iraq war?" Yeah,
the Iraq you know, it's like yeah.
But people seem to lose our sense of
humor in 2008. I don't At least my
neighbors did. It was like, "What did
you I'm sorry, did you say something
about Obama that's not flattering?"
And that to me
>> see how you would get that. You know
what I mean? [clears throat] I mean,
you're you're a public figure. You're
you're on TV.
>> dinner.
>> Yeah, no, I know, but I mean
>> was the ladies who were all about Obama.
>> [laughter]
>> Remember that? It's like all the this
whole [clears throat] thing of like
well-educated humorless rich white
ladies, that all began during Obama.
>> That may be the case. I but that wasn't
It understandably was not my experience.
>> [laughter]
>> That it wasn't.
>> And so, how did you wind up deciding to
speak in public? And with first of all,
with Candace, which I strongly approve
of, but I just want to how did that
happen?
>> So, the um the first interview that I
did um was with Andrew Callaghan, and
who is a brilliant, in my opinion,
journalist and um documentarian. And I
didn't know anything about him, but I
had a a lawyer that had done some work
for him that had also done some work for
me, and he said, "Hey, you should check
this this guy out." And uh and I did.
And what I what I noticed about Andrew
is that I believe he has a real finger
on the pulse of what's happening
particularly to a certain demographic
like draft age 18 to 35-year-olds.
And um and he he has a wider audience
also.
And
>> It's funny that you say draft age.
That's That's an interesting way to put
it.
>> Yeah.
We may
we may be coming up to
uh and anyway
>> Do you think we're going to get a draft?
>> Uh no. No. I don't think that they have
the
um
I I No, I don't I don't think
>> Cuz that's when like I physically join
the protest at that I mean that's so
crazy.
>> Well, I think you should physically join
the protest now. I mean you're already
there. And uh but anyway, I met with I I
I watched a lot of stuff that Andrew
did. I I really liked it and uh
and um
and I went on and you know, I think that
the thing that kind of shocked people
was my willingness to be completely open
about all of the
everything. Is that I don't um I welcome
any question. Um I always say that
addiction is um
is never an excuse, but it's often an
explanation for uh
for some of the things that people
uh
uh the narrative that they've been told
about me. Um and they did a beautiful
thing to me that was uh that was ugly in
the moment, which was they completely
exposed me in a way um that I don't know
of any public figure
or or uh person associated with a public
figure particularly family has ever been
exposed. Um you know, I mean they
literally stole
22 years of my entire digital footprint
from every deleted image to every
deleted text to everything. And um
And in that total exposure, there was
nowhere to hide.
And uh and for me, I realized is that
the only way um uh
to out was through.
Is owning the things that were true and
and speaking truth to the things that
were false. And uh and I did that with
Andrew and I thought it would just be a
one-off.
But then I I I the guy named uh well,
you you're close with him and I I uh I
consider him a a friend by text. I I
don't want to sully his reputation.
Yeah. It's Shawn Ryan.
And I and I sat down with Shawn Ryan and
I and I and
Shawn is kind of, you know,
MAGA-adjacent. He was um
between 2020 and 2024 and um and he had
said some pretty rough things about my
dad, not so much about me, but um
about my dad that I I vehemently
disagreed with um and to this day
vehemently disagree with.
But I thought that Shawn was a great
listener. And uh and and I really
appreciated
his willingness
um
to not allow what he had been uh
instructed to believe to infect the way
in which he listened. And uh and I sat
down with him and we did
close to 6 hours.
And you you you kind of I know that it's
it's like seems like this is a very
public thing by virtue of everybody
watching here, but the the fact of the
matter is is these experiences in this
long format can be very intimate.
>> Oh, big time.
>> And um and
and it and that was my experience with
uh with Shawn and we and we connected on
the thing that I have been able to
connect with with almost everyone, like
universally, which is
addiction.
>> Yes.
>> And recovery. And for me, thank God,
it's recovery. And I
And I've been sober clean sober for
as somebody said, "Stop saying clean."
It So, I've been substance free and
sober for uh
for over 7 years now. And
I don't think people knew that. I think
people conflated my my past addiction
with my my father's presidency and just
assumed that I was still using because,
you know, I mean, New York Post, you
know, I think that they they they
printed
1.5 articles about me a day for almost
close to 4 years. And And none of it
good. And all of it with pictures.
>> Not not positive?
>> Not Not Not [laughter] Not Not much of
it was positive. No, not at all.
Anyway, long story long story a lot
longer is that
>> I'm having that experience with the New
York Post at the moment.
>> Yeah, by the way.
>> [laughter]
>> Welcome to Welcome to my world.
>> I'm not naked, but
>> Yeah, hopefully hopefully
>> [laughter]
>> hopefully naked pictures don't come out.
>> I could call some of our friends.
No one wants to see those.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I didn't think so, either, but but
apparently they do.
>> [laughter]
>> So, anyway, long story short and long
story longer
I go
and I do this with Sean. And Sean called
And it's This is public now. I can say
it. Is Sean had dinner with Candace.
They live in the same neighborhood down
there in Nashville. And he said, "You
know, I really really like her." And um
and
she told my wife that one of the
interviews that she most wanted to do
was with me, with Hunter Biden.
Um I'm not referring myself in the third
person right now. I haven't gotten to
that point yet.
>> [laughter]
>> And you know, I thought about it.
And
like you, um and we've talked talked
about this a little bit, but like you,
the Candace has said some really really
awful things. Not only just about me,
but also about my dad. You know, the
whole Biden crime family thing, but
really, really kind of
pointed things.
And I believe that I if I could sit down
with her,
not to convince her
of anything, but to see
that
uh I was just as human as she was.
And that I own
my failings, and I've been incredibly
transparent about them. I've been and I
I have
and
I thought that if we could find that,
you know, commonality, that we could
have an actual conversation. And that's
what occurred. And and uh
And I don't agree with Candace still on
a lot of stuff. And I almost feel like
like
uh why do I have to make that, you know,
caveat as it relates to it? Because I
never used to have to make that caveat.
Going all the way back to the beginning
of our conversation, how did it change?
I truly believe that the level of
vitriol, meanness, and cruelty in our
politics has always been there, but
never like this.
Never in a way in which it is uh
it is practiced with impunity.
And um
and uh
that to me has uh I I mean, I think that
I can um market. Now, it's interesting
that you say that, that your experience
is that that um
uh that kind of division started um in
2008, but nothing like this, Tucker.
>> You know, a lot of people hit that
afternoon slump and immediately reach
for another cup of coffee. Guilty.
But is the answer always more caffeine?
Well, sometimes you just need hydration.
Thing is, a lot of people are already
drinking a ton of water, but they are
not fully hydrated because water alone
isn't always enough. Your body needs
something called electrolytes, salts to
help absorb the water
and use the water, and that's where
Re-Lyte comes in.
Re-Lyte is made [music] by Redmond, the
company behind Redmond Real Salt.
They've been harvesting mineral salt in
Utah since 1958, a state famous for
salt.
And they are totally transparent. You
can visit their mine if you want. If you
ever show up there, you can go to the
mine and see where it comes from.
So, Re-Lyte's ingredient list is
completely clean. There's no sugar, no
chemical preservatives, no artificial
colors, flavors, sweeteners, just
sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium,
chloride, and coconut water powder.
That's it.
So, whether you're working out, spending
time outside, or just trying to stay
sharp throughout a day, Re-Lyte is an
easy way to replenish your electrolytes,
which again, you need.
Flavors like lemon lime, mixed berry,
strawberry lemonade, watermelon lime,
mango, pina colada. You're making me
hungry reading the list.
They've got it. All of it. So, if you're
ready to give it a try, visit
redmond.com/tucker
use the code Tucker for 15% off your
first order. redmond.com/tucker
code Tucker 15% off your first order. Or
click the link in the video description.
Or you can even scan the QR code on the
screen. Or check the pin comment. Many
ways to get it and you should.
>> Not to mention what's happening right
now.
>> even on partisan lines. I mean,
the divisions are so intense. I always
thought of divisions as racial or
religious, you know, you're Protestant
marrying a Catholic, you know, or black
person marrying a white person. I feel
like the divisions now are ideological
and political. And that's I mean, this
morning I texted Erica Kirk
and Candace Owens.
>> Both within like an hour of each other,
not related
>> Yeah.
>> to each other, but just cuz I really
like them both and I'm not embarrassed
of that. And I've
And I And that's my right, by the way. I
get to like people whether or not I'm
fully aligned with their program, right?
That's my view.
>> Yeah.
>> I've taken so much abuse for that. It's
like, "How could you be friends with two
people who disagree with each other?"
Well, I don't know. I am.
Right?
>> [laughter]
>> What world do we live in?
>> Well, that's kind of how I feel. Yeah.
strongly how I feel. First of all, I
decide who I like. You don't get to
decide who I like. Don't you feel that?
>> I do and I and I think that what it is
is that it's a reflection of this is
that who are you getting that from?
You're getting that from other people
with with with niche audiences with big
microphones in front of them. You're
getting that from the comment section
that I know you don't read but other but
other people in your organization read
from you know on X. You're getting that
I think we have literally been
torn apart on purpose because not not
because it was the the I don't think
that the people that created the social
media platforms that rule our lives to
this day
um
thought this is what we're going to do.
We're going to create something just to
tear people apart. What I think that
they did was they created a a monster
in which they realized that it is fueled
by division and vitriol and
in conflict and
and
making you question yourself. I mean
let me give you an example.
Remember that the whistleblower for
Facebook when I think Facebook was still
Facebook. It happened like in 2022. She
was a senior executive at Facebook and
she came up to the hill and this is a
non-partisan thing and she came up to
the hill and she had all of that
documentation of internal studies within
Facebook that showed that the that there
had been something like and I forget the
numbers so don't hold me to it but an
exponential increase in the the number
of teenage suicide among girls between
the ages of 13 and 17 years old.
Exponential.
That began with the inception of
Instagram.
And then
not only an exponential increase in
actual suicides among teenage girls, but
a even greater increase. Like with if
that if suicides went up triple
uh girls reporting self-harm went up by
like 300% over the course of like a the
inception of Instagram until, you know,
2022 when this woman walks in with all
the document.
And Instagram knew that and knew that it
was literally directly related to their
algorithm.
Sending
these
uh messages to girls that they are not
worth that they they they they need more
that that they that they're whether it's
about their bodies or body shaming and
continuing to send it over to them
knowing the negative impact that is
happening, but it's because
it made them money.
It's because you become addicted to that
uh you know, that uh
response and uh that that
Instagram would get with that bag of
heroin in your pocket known as an
iPhone.
And you know what they did?
Nothing. They buried the report.
They literally did nothing.
I mean nothing. So, my question and and
then what happened?
This woman whistleblower comes forward.
She brings all of the evidence that that
that Facebook Meta knows about this.
And she said like now what do we do
about it? And you know what Congress
did? Senate, House, no you know what
they did? Nothing.
We have done absolutely
>> What's just suicides of our people? I
mean not a big deal.
>> Well, that's what I'm trying to say.
>> Bonkers. So, I couldn't agree
>> And and and as it relates to our
politics is the same thing. We are being
fed the the the equivalent of a suicide
pact
by
organizations and companies that are run
by, by the way, literally a handful of
very, very, very, um, uh, not just
generationally, but
wealthy people to the degree that we
haven't seen since the robber barons at
the turn of the, uh, in 1900s and in
late 1800s.
And those people, I'm not saying are
evil, but what they have created is a
tool. And a tool can be either a, uh, a
hammer can can build a home
>> Yeah.
>> or it can tear down a, uh, uh, your
house.
And they build a tool and they're make
more money by tearing people down. They
make more money by dividing people. They
make more money. And so, they just let
the algorithm rule. And it's and it's
tearing us apart. And I'm not saying
that's the only problem.
Not my epic enough to say that all of,
uh,
all of the issues that we have. But
going back to
Donald Trump.
Because
for me
the one existential threat that I think
that we face
as a country
is Donald Trump. I am not this believer
that, uh, Trump is a, um, is merely the
symptom of a disease. I believe that
Trump is, uh,
is
is, uh,
central to why this disease has, uh,
gone from, uh,
local, um, uh, epidemic to a pandemic in
the in the United States of America.
>> It's not a defense of Trump to ask then
why on the big failures of the Trump
administration, the real ones, the ones
that, you know, history will record like
this war
there's been no pushback from the other
side at all.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that tells you, I mean, I, you know,
you could say lots of things about Trump
are bad, but getting us into a war we
can't win in which Americans are dying
in Iran that will only diminish
America's power and bankrupt us. I mean,
that's the only exit really.
>> Yeah.
>> And make Iran stronger.
And like no no Chuck Schumer is like,
"Yeah, it's bad." But of course he
endorses like the whole leadership
structure endorses that. So like can't
really say like they like Trump now.
>> Yeah. I don't know if they like Trump.
>> Maybe maybe it's like he's obnoxious or
whatever, but he's doing what they want.
>> it's a little bit of an
a I well, by the way, I I don't disagree
that that there's an enormous failure
failure of the
of what I call the um
the elite
uh
oligarch Epstein class of Washington
D.C.
>> Yes.
>> that are that you and I both know
very well yes and that have uh
that are
as you're interested in protecting their
uh their their corporate overlords as
they
are in protecting anything. And I mean,
just take like the the the issue of
stock trading, okay?
>> Yeah.
>> My dad in
in 1972 took a vow that he would never
own a stock or a bond. And he kept that
vow since 1972 in over 50 uh years of
public life.
And
he retired from the presidency as having
probably the lowest net worth of anyone
that ever entered the presidency.
And meanwhile, he got tagged with this
idea that he you know is the Biden crime
family and that you know all of all of
that crap. But my point being is this is
it how is it that we have not been able
to pass a law? I couldn't agree more.
>> I know you do agree.
But how is it possible? And it's not
just Republicans.
>> That pass a law that prohibits members
of Congress from trading.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, it's the most common sense thing
in the world and it should be in the
administration, too. It should be
anybody with the access to the most
valuable insider information of all. And
meanwhile, not only are we not passing
the law,
Donald Trump is selling $100,000 early
access to his Truth Social tweets, which
is just a front-running for um insider
trading. Literally, in the open.
And that's what I mean the the
quantitative qualitative difference of
Donald Trump as compared to anything
I've ever experienced in uh uh
in in politics before is
the sense that the rule of law is is
is is only
um uh
applies uh
as a as a weapon rather than as the a
prophylactic for uh
for the the Constitution to be able to
operate in a way in which the founders
uh
uh
envisioned it. Everybody knows that
bleach is powerful and you know that by
the smell and the warnings and the
gloves. And it makes sense. If something
can clean a surface, you may not want to
be in the room while it's being cleaned.
There's got to be a better way and there
is. Curative base Curaclenz home
disinfectant. It's a powerful
EPA-registered disinfectant. But here's
the interesting part. It's what powers
it. Hypochlorous acid, HOCl. Now that's
not some weird mystery chemical you're
going to find in your potato chips. It
is the most organic of all. It's a
molecule your own white blood cells
naturally produce as part of your body's
immune response. So Curative base
stabilizes it from ultra-purified water,
natural sea salt, and electricity. And
that's it. No bleach, no alcohol,
peroxide, fragrances, ammonium
compounds, etc. etc. Nothing you don't
want in your kitchen.
And the result, the stabilized formula,
is up to 100 times more powerful than
bleach. Well, it's still all-natural and
non-toxic for use, including around kids
and pets.
So that's pretty amazing. That's a very
different thing than dragging out a
bottle of bleach every time you need to
clean your countertop.
If you want the whole household system,
you can get the Health Freedom Bundle,
and that includes home disinfectant,
food spray, skin spray, saline nose
cleaner for daily nasal hygiene.
You can find it at
curativabay.com/tucker.
The 15% Tucker offer is automatically
applied when you check out. Again,
curativabay.com/tucker.
Serious cleaning that doesn't make your
house feel like a chemical plant.
There's
almost no arguing with your point.
That's true.
>> Yeah.
>> I would just say I think it's been that
way for a long time.
And
this is open now. It's open. It's just
obvious If you're selling Truth Social
access,
>> Yeah, man, but it's like like come on.
>> [laughter]
>> I saw this guy There's just what There's
this incredible guy on uh Tik Tok, and
he's a uh the professor, but he goes
it's a it's a red cup garage. He's like
a and he Have you ever seen this? Well,
you don't have any of this He explains
things by using red color solo cups.
>> Yeah.
>> And he he has this thing Everybody go
look at it. It's uh
all of the money that every president
uh and
of the 45 that came before Donald Trump
made in the presidency, okay? And it's
four blue solo cups,
okay?
And then all of the money that Donald
Trump has
openly
uh said that he made in his financial
report in the first 500 days of the
presidency.
And it is over $3 billion, and it takes
the entire wall.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like And
>> I mean, I You can't argue that. I mean,
presidents shouldn't make any money in
office. Like, what is this?
>> No, and by the way, this whole idea of a
blind trust And so, that's what I mean
by the qualitative and the quantitative
difference. And the idea that um that
there are still a group of people out
there
that
voted for Donald Trump because they
thought that they were going to be able
to change things. You know,
it talked about this
a little bit
and before we came on. But my hero, and
I know that you are a
too as it relates to and public life
people that is one of them with all of
his faults, was Teddy Roosevelt. Okay.
And Teddy Roosevelt
>> I have a signed picture of him over
there to my great-grandfather. Yeah.
>> I I I I got something for you by the
way.
But the
Teddy Roosevelt
uh
by all accounts
um
came very close to
um abusing
the power of the executive.
>> Oh, you think?
>> Yes, you think. He certainly did.
>> But he did it because he realized that
in order for this experiment to be able
to continue you could not have a a a
unfettered oligarch class.
>> Yes.
>> That drained all of the wealth of a
country and put it into their pockets.
Um while the other 99 No, by the way,
and people don't understand this. I'm
not talking
1%. I'm talking the point 0.01%.
>> Yes.
>> There are only nine like a little over
9,000 families in this country who are
billionaires.
Out of 350 million people. You know what
the the I
I This is shocking to me.
You know what puts you in the top 1% of
income earners in this country?
>> No.
>> Annual $750,000.
>> That's the top 1%?
>> 1%.
So the people that I'm talking I'm not
talking about taxing or
redistributing wealth among the top 1%.
I'm not talking about it even in the top
0.5%, which would be
like like million.
I'm talking about
the 0.01%
literally about a little under 10,000
individuals in this country that control
and that have almost like 40% of the
entire wealth of a nation.
Who decide
>> 9,000 families have 40% of the entire
wealth.
>> somebody do the numbers for me. I
probably screwed that up completely, but
an inordinate amount of
of the entire
considered wealth of this country.
>> Well, you can't have democracy under
those circumstances.
>> can't. And Teddy Roosevelt knew that.
And what he did is he went out and he
used the power of the executive to be
able to go out and bust the trust and
and redistribute that wealth. It was
called it the square deal. And then he
used the power of the executive to do
things that are
every single one of us still benefits
from today, which is for instance the
national park system.
>> Yes.
>> The entire national park system was the
was the brainchild of one person
as it related to one island, which was
Audubon. And he came to Teddy Roosevelt
and he said, "Hey, look.
We're losing a this magnificent place
uh this island off the
in the in the Gulf off the coast of
Florida. And it because it has it's a a
bird habitat that has I don't know like
like half the species of wild birds. And
he comes to Teddy Roosevelt and he and
Teddy Roosevelt just goes out and he
says, "Okay."
And he turned it into an the first
national park, I think.
And um
and then he went out and he did that
across the country. I mean, can you
imagine doing that today?
>> No.
>> No.
And but you can you even imagine
the people in not the people, Donald
Trump
having a thought
the about using the power of the
executive to bene- benefit anyone
but himself first.
No. No. And that's the thing. But I also
look back on the last
25 years, 20 years anyway, and I can't
really think of many big executive
initiatives that like benefited the
majority. No, neither do I. And that may
be a question about the the unitary
executive and the and and but no one has
ever done it in a way in which the their
um, you know,
where literally, I believe that
everything that he has done
contains not just a you know, an
underlying current of how does it
benefit him personally, it is the first
thought of everything that he does.
>> think that's true. The problem I have
with focusing on Trump and I I'm trying
not to be defensive cuz obviously I
campaigned for Trump and with Trump and
spoke at the Republican National
Convention and defended Trump for a
decade on Fox News. So I'm definitely
implicated in it.
>> Obviously.
>> Mhm.
Um,
but it's not just defensiveness. I I
think two things. One, focusing on Trump
as the source of all evil in the world
drives you crazy. Like I saw that happen
in my life, just you know.
>> I don't believe that he's the source of
all evil.
>> Right, but I mean, you know, people who
feel that way, who literally I I had a
one of my closest friends went off the
deep end. Just like, "IT'S TRUMP!" AND
ALL OF A SUDDEN Trump's under the bed
and it's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." It's
monomania.
But I also think it's it's like
>> was under my bed.
>> [laughter]
>> Just Okay, that is funny.
You win.
>> along with some of his his friends.
>> That is so good.
>> Yeah.
>> But second, it's like exculpatory
to the rest of us. It's like, I don't
know. We I watched a lot of crappy stuff
happen in D.C. when over the 35 years I
lived there and I didn't even recognize
it as crappy at the time and we're all
kind of implicated in this. We've had a
lot of bad leaders actually or mediocre
leaders. I don't know if a flamboyantly
corrupt leader like this. I don't know
if we haven't ever.
That's true.
We've had a lot of low-grade kind of
like what's in it for me leadership.
And we tolerated it and we celebrated
things that were not impressive at all
and pretended they were impressive and
ooh so brave and all this is like it was
all crap actually. We're kind of
this is the end of like a long cycle of
mediocrity. That's all I'm saying.
>> Okay. So I I I've owned up. Yeah. Okay.
To
like for instance is
I I'm absolutely certain that my
engagement in Washington D.C. as you
know when I took on Burisma when my dad
was vice president as a client at the
end of the year is like it it was a
stupid thing to do.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, because I wasn't fully aware
of the
of what a swamp it was and and the
narrative that would be able to be spun.
It was a it was it was a horrible idea.
Now I had my reasons. Okay, but they're
not good enough.
I own that.
I own the idea that I do believe that
there is this revolving door in
Washington D.C. that needs to be shut.
In which people come in and out of
administrations. We know them all.
>> They're trading on access.
>> And they're not bad people that are
trading on access. I did not trade on
access. You can look through 22 years of
my but I know this. I know that I
received
incredible uh
privileges that no one else in the world
including to to the point of my pardon.
No, literally there's no one else in the
world
that was in my position
that
their father having to have the
authority and the power to do it. And I
realize how privileged I I am.
But I think that there is a
I think that there needs to be a
reckoning with if I'm willing to do
that. I think that you and I saw the the
and I like um
I like Thomas Massie. I like where where
uh and Marjorie Taylor Greene is going.
I like that there are people that have
kind of woken up to the but
a lot of the reason that we're here is
because of
of Fox News. A lot of it has to do
>> Well, we're in a war right now because
of the war we're losing because of Fox
News.
>> I couldn't agree more.
>> And so I
I just think that I don't think that
every problem this country faces is
because of Donald Trump. I don't think
that he is the you know, the source of
all evil. I don't even remotely believe
that. I do believe this though. We are
at an inflection point in this country.
Whether you it's
because of the technology as relates to
AI and as it relates to our debt and the
fact that Donald Trump is responsible
for what 20% of the entire debt of the
entire nation over the course of you
know, since its inception.
>> Yeah, it's bonkers.
>> Yeah, it's bonkers.
>> Yep.
>> And we are in desperate desperate need
of leadership.
>> I agree.
>> And so I am I I want I want to reach
across to everybody and say like look
let's figure out what are the things
that we can agree on. Instead of like
pointing you know, the
in constantly and one of the things that
I think that we can agree on is that we
are we have the exact wrong leadership
at the exact wrong time.
>> Home ownership has always been at the
center of the American dream. It is an
actual asset, a place people work their
entire lives to build, a place of
stability and security and real value.
Right now though, too many homeowners
are stuck swiping credit cards to cover
groceries.
There's basically a survival tax of 20%
interest or more. So why keep handing
your money to the banks when you could
keep it for your family? Interest is
what kills you.
Our friends at American Financing have a
better way. They're helping homeowners
use their hard-earned equity, and
they're supporting Americans looking to
fulfill the dream of owning a home with
mortgage rates currently in the [music]
fives.
American Financing saves its customers
an average of $800 a month. That's about
10 grand a year.
It's not just a loan, it's a true
financial reset. We recommend American
Financing. They're called America's home
for home loans for a reason.
So, get out of credit card debt. I mean,
it is just crazy to borrow money.
No judgment, but it doesn't make any
sense to borrow money at that rate. If
you want out, call 800-685-5696.
800-685-5696
or visit americanfinancing.net/tucker.
So, I think you're kind of making my
point.
Which is that
you know, finger-pointing is unhelpful.
Except when we point fingers at
ourselves. That is very helpful. Very
important to say That's kind of what I
was inarticulately trying to express to
you, which is like it gets the rest of
us off the hook to point to one guy and
be like, "It's all his fault." It's
like, "Actually, it's all of our fault,
including mine." And I, you know,
famously advocated for the Iraq war and
thought that was the last stupid thing I
was ever going to do. Turns out it
wasn't. I advocated for all kinds of
things
that I now regret advocating for.
Um now, I particularly the things that
you said about me.
>> [laughter]
>> Is it deep regret? No, I do actually I
mean, I Yeah, I mean, I regret in the
sense that as someone who has dealt with
addiction
not quite as uh in an exciting way as
you did, but I've been there for sure.
Uh
you know, extend grace to people who are
out of their minds. Like, you'd think I
would do that. I should have done that
more. So, I do I do regret that.
But, no. What I'm saying is like you
look back and like I really thought that
I could influence Trump
>> Talk about
>> not going into this war. That's
>> talk about I think that that's a really
interesting point.
>> No, I mean that's the that's the core of
it right there.
>> Because you said the things that you
said about uh Trump after 2020
which are famously out there.
>> Oh, when I got pissed in a text with a
producer and then Fox News took it out
of context and yeah, and all that.
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, one wonderful
organization you worked for.
>> Really? Ridiculous.
>> And so,
um
and
talk about how you came around
in 2024 not as it relates to like you
just knee-jerk reaction to being opposed
to Democrats, but what why why did you
come
>> was a very specific trajectory. I was uh
I was This is like such an impossible
rich guy thing to say, but it's the
fact. I was in Europe with my kids
>> Yeah.
>> on the Med the August of 2023, I think.
And
Trump Mar-a-Lago got raided.
And that was like that was ridiculous.
On a documents charge, really? And I'm
from the city, so like I know a lot
about the documents stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> And it was like transparently absurd.
They're literally sending armed FBI
agents into his bathroom. Like, no.
And so, to me what that said was Trump
is actually being persecuted by the
uniparty. Therefore, he is its sincere
opponent. And my overriding feeling
since I wrote a whole book on this 10
years ago is that the problem in
Washington is that on the big questions
of the economy and foreign policy both
parties agree. It's the agreement that
is the threat, not the disagreement.
So, I thought that and I thought, "Well,
Trump is clear They're trying to put him
in jail on these nonsense charges." And
they are not They were nonsense.
Well, they're nuclear secrets. That's
not true. And I was like, "So, he
clearly is their
opponent." So, I thought, and this is my
sin,
I can have an effect. And my goal,
literally from that moment up until
February 28th, was I don't want to go to
war with Iran. Cuz I really saw that as
the end of a lot of stuff, of the Well,
the post-war order, which is kind of
ridiculous, but compared to what?
You know, I'm kind of against the
post-war order. On the other hand, I'm
not sure what follows will be better.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I was really focused on this Iran
thing, and I knew that both parties were
for it. Schumer's totally for it.
Lindsey Graham's totally for it. They're
all colluding against America to start
this regime change war with Iran. And I
was like,
I'm going to single-mindedly focus on
it. That's all I'm going to do with my
life is I'm going to And I knew a lot of
people in the Middle East, and I
thought, "Oh, man,
I can do this." And I realized on
February 28th,
first of all, I had zero power, okay?
But it was mostly vanity. I was like, "I
have a mission. I can do this."
And it was it was I overstated my own
influence like dramatically in a very
embarrassing way.
And my own importance, and like, I
thought I could do things that like I
had no control over any of this stuff,
and I was humiliated, correctly.
>> Mhm.
>> I was humiliated in front of my wife. I
was like, "What am I You're doing a good
thing."
And um
And so, yeah, I was mad at Trump, but I
was also really mad at myself. And so,
that's that's the story. And I I've I
actually I'm really grateful I went
through that.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz it puts your own power in context.
You think like,
you've got all this, you know, whatever,
or SWAT, and you have zero.
>> Yeah.
>> So, what next?
>> I have no idea. But I
>> No, I mean I mean really though, guys.
>> What for me?
>> Yeah, not not just for you, but what
next for all of us? Like, I am
uh
I've been out talking to people,
and a
completely different audiences, you
know, across the board, and um and
the most significant reason of why I
decided to go out and talk is
that
what I realize is that my experience is
not only not unique, it's almost
universal. Now, to the degree that my
experience, my addiction
uh overwhelm me is
sometimes often exaggerated by virtue of
how much attention has been paid to it.
You know
This two years of my life
>> noticed?
>> Yeah, some people noticed.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, yeah, exactly.
God.
>> It was awful. I mean, noticed to the
degree that you know, my wife and I were
living in
the hills in LA
and we had this little place and and I
it was just early in in my recovery
and
Trump from the Oval Office invited in
these right-wing influencers, these MAGA
influencers online and this is back in
20
19 and uh
and he started the where's Hunter thing.
And the next day the New York Post
printed an aerial photograph of the
house that I live in
where you could stand on the street
below to be able to look through the the
floor-to-ceiling windows
and
a group of
men with bullhorns and MAGA hats showed
up at the door banging on the door
with my then pregnant wife who was home
alone who literally fled the house. They
chased her in the car
and literally ran her off the road.
And that was my experience for like a
two-year period of time until my dad was
elected. Then we got Secret Service and
and we had we'd we'd left that house
because we in the middle of the night.
And a And the next house we went to they
found us in this documentary filmmaker
ended up being like a He wrote a whole
scripted film. He parked a billboard
truck where in LA? Yeah, in LA in
Venice. I was right on South Venice
Boulevard. He parked a a
one of those digital billboard trucks in
front of my house
that ran all of the nude pictures of me
smoking crack.
>> Actually?
>> For a week.
>> [laughter]
>> Straight.
And then sat on the canal
with bullhorns in a canoe
and just shouted at my house over and
over again for a week. Then we had to
leave that house.
>> Did you know him?
>> Yeah. No, no, God, no.
>> [laughter]
>> Some crazy guy. You know, I mean, he was
not crazy. He was, you know,
He then went on to make a like a whole
movie about me. Um
But I I'm Anyway, my point
>> Did you see it?
>> What?
>> Did you see it?
>> No, I didn't I did not see it.
Did not go see that movie.
>> [laughter]
>> Didn't know it existed, but
>> Um
But um
you know,
my
My point is that I have um
the total exposure that I've had
has given me this incredible gift.
And number one is that
uh
by
the that that transparency is it I don't
have any more secrets. And the secrets
that that I felt ashamed of. Like just
the word crack. Like, you know, I mean,
it
it it's so heavy. It It shocks people.
Um All of the associations that people
make out of, particularly of our
generation.
>> Yes.
>> And um
And uh to be able to speak about it
openly. And what I found is is this deep
connection with people.
There's no wall between me and them
anymore. And uh because they know all of
my flaws. Not the ones that you would
never want to show anyone. And and they
know I'm willing to talk about them.
And in that they're able to come up to
me and say
I mean
everywhere I go. When I was got off the
plane at the airport, someone came up to
me.
Told me about their uh their experience
in recovery. Thanks for what I'm doing.
You know, they're uh you know, they got
their brother just got arrested though.
He's in jail.
You know, that you got to do something
about the fentanyl deaths here.
It's it everybody. And it's been an
incredibly beautiful beautiful
experience. And I say to everybody is
that I'll talk about the politics.
But it's really the bait to be able to
talk about the thing that connects us.
And so
all the way back
sitting down with Candace
is that the thing that Candace and I
were able to connect on
in a very human way was her own
experience not personally but with her
family and and addiction and the people
that she loved. And I don't know anyone
that hasn't been impacted by it. That's
for sure. Yeah. And well, I guess what
my point is is that
by starting there for me
I feel like like our connection as
relates to it. I've known you've been
sober for for over well over 20 years
now.
>> 24 years this month.
>> 24 years this month. And um
and
And so
your um uh
your capacity to be able to understand
it at that level and also at a family
level
>> Oh, yeah.
>> is makes it a lot easier to like you
know
see the see the hunter that you thought
that you knew.
Um and I I think and by the way, I'm not
putting words into your mouth.
>> No, I think that's that's 100% true.
>> But the thing for for is that with with
with you I
the transformation not transformation
because it's not a transformation.
Anybody that knows you realizes it's not
a transformation.
is
out on your own now
and not
understandably like anybody that has a
job being beholden to corporate
structure.
>> Yeah.
>> Fox News.
Is that I I I feel as if
that combined with the incredible
ultimate betrayal
and I when I mean by betrayal of the of
the promise the singular promise that
was important to you as it related to
Trump.
>> Yes.
>> That we would not get into the potential
of ending up in a war a a
World War III
or another
incredibly
devastating protracted war in that
region.
Uh that would expand clearly.
with the entire
uh global oil supply in jeopardy.
>> It's so it's so crazy. I cannot even
believe it happened.
>> Is that it has given um an opening
for us to be able to have a a a
conversation that is more constructive
about a way forward. That's my feeling.
>> I strongly agree with that.
>> You know one thing that might make you
feel a little better about your life?
Is buying life insurance.
Cuz life ends and the last thing you
want is [music] to leave the ones you
love hanging. There's nothing worse than
that. If you're providing for a spouse
or children or parents, it makes a lot
of sense. In fact, it's your obligation
to think about what would happen if you
left. Well, life insurance through our
partners at Ethos is a very easy way to
solve that nagging problem. Ethos makes
[music] the process super fast and
simple. It's 100% online. You get a
quote in seconds, you apply in minutes,
and in some cases you get coverage the
very same day. There is no medical exam.
You just answer a few simple health
questions, nothing too invasive. You can
get up to $3 million in coverage. Some
policies start as low as 30 bucks a
month. Ethos also has a 4.8
out of five star rating on Trustpilot
with over 4,000 reviews. That is pretty
good.
So, for 10 minutes investment, you can
figure out if Ethos is the right plan
for you. You get a free quote today at
ethos.com/tucker.
Ethos, t h o s.com/tucker. Application
times and rates obviously vary, but we
think they're pretty darn good. And
always my I mean, I've certainly talked
about you and all the drama that you
went through a lot.
I have really only one question, one
thing that has bothered me
>> Mhm.
>> for years now.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
uh
eight years or whatever, six years,
whatever it's been.
Um
and so I just want to ask you directly
about it. So, the laptop comes out or
doesn't come out. I hear that it's in
circulation. I get calls from people in
that kind of shadowy way that
>> Yeah.
>> Way before, right?
I can't You know, I can't remember. So
much drama has happened, but you know,
if you're in the news business or
politics like you You know, people call
you. There's this thing. You know, you
hear everything all the time and like
how much is true, you don't know.
I heard about the laptop and um
and then I heard, you know, so you don't
know if it's real
and then I heard somebody calls me,
goes, "You're on the laptop."
And because you would written a letter
of recommendation for college for my son
>> Yeah.
>> who didn't end up going to the school or
even getting in, but whatever. It did It
didn't help, it turns out.
>> Oh, thanks.
>> [laughter]
>> But anyway, I knew that it was real
because who would Who would know that we
knew each other, yeah, right? No one No
one could fake that.
And then there are wiser friends and all
this stuff. So, um
but it's Washington. You know, you know
everybody there.
>> Yeah.
>> So, then I hear [snorts] this story
about how Then the official story comes
out about how the laptop was left You
left a couple of laptops in a laptop
repair store in Greenville, Delaware,
which I'm a town I'm very familiar with.
So, and the guy was blind. Then I
interviewed the guy who seemed to
totally believe the story, John
MacIsaac. I mean, he seemed to be
telling the truth.
But, the story did not make sense.
Meanwhile, I'm getting
We get approached by Israelis connected
to Benjamin Netanyahu. Like, I know
that.
>> Yeah.
>> Who are shopping this stuff to me at Fox
News.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm like, I don't think that that
part of the story, the laptop is real. I
thought that from day one.
But, the way that it entered the
bloodstream
of American media was not real. So, I
just want to ask you point-blank, did
you drop off laptops?
>> No. And this is the thing that I've said
over and over again. I have literally
zero recollection or memory of ever
dropping off a a laptop at John Paul
MacIsaac's. No, the answer is no. And
John Paul MacIsaac
>> Meanwhile,
>> So, John Paul MacIsaac, who's legally
blind,
>> Yes.
>> who on the day when the laptop became
public,
sat
outside of his shop, gave an interview,
and flat-out says that he doesn't
remember seeing me. He couldn't identify
me. And also that his security cameras
that he has don't have any footage from
that time.
And so, regardless though, regardless of
anything, just this.
The laptop,
according to Lev Parnas, under oath in
his testimony before the House Oversight
Committee, was being sought by Rudy
Giuliani in Ukraine
in all the way back in 2018.
And so, Rudy Giuliani is working with a
guy named Andriy Derkach, who was a
MP in in Ukraine and a known Russian GRU
agent. So, Rudy goes over there and
basically takes his dossier and receives
information that Hunter Biden's
hard drive, not laptop, is for sale. And
and the person that they can go to is
this other
Ukrainian-Russian oligarch who is living
in Austria.
That's what Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman
were doing getting on the plane before
they were arrested.
>> So, how did this
>> Before John Paul Mac Isaac was ever a a
twinkle in anybody's eye.
>> I believe that. The story that was
always the weak part of the story, like
he
he drops off the laptop and forgets
about it.
>> Mac Isaac, okay, from there is no such
thing as a laptop. The laptop that he
eventually turns over
a year later, 18 months later to the
FBI.
The thing that he that is dis-
distributed and disseminated that John
Paul Mac Isaac claims that he got off of
a device
was a hard drive. And that hard drive
had a limited amount of information.
A limited amount of like gigabytes. I
don't know the difference between a
gigabyte and a whatever.
And
that goes into the hands he he he
somehow can't find anybody. You you
could you can't throw a stone in trolley
square without hitting someone that that
knows me personally.
>> Right.
>> And he knows that. He's lived there his
whole life.
Instead, what he finds through this guy
Applebaum
and
is
Rudy Giuliani's lawyer.
Bob Costello.
He turns over this hard drive.
The hard drive becomes the platform
from which all of the other stolen
information from which, by the way,
every single
you know, forensic expert has made it
clear is that there's no possible way
all of the information that was
eventually uh labeled as my laptop
came from one laptop. It's like the the
it's way too large.
>> the cloud.
>> Exactly. They hacked my cloud. They um
there's a there I I wrote about this in
this book. So, on Substack, I'm I'm like
laying all of this out.
And
and there's a whole uh and you know the
NDI the whole thing about
there's these different silos.
There's the Netanyahu silo, the Israeli
side, there is a uh Russian-Ukrainian
side of it, and then there are the US
actors that include Steve Bannon, uh
Rudy Giuliani, Miles Guo, um and a whole
bunch of you know Lev Parnas and and
Igor Fruman and all of these guys.
>> Well, once the material starts
circulating, the data from the cloud.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, all kinds of people get
involved and they're shopping it for
different reasons and I agree.
>> Yes, and so it but my point is
>> stole it?
>> It Well, from the cloud?
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I don't know. You have as good a
guess as mine in terms of actually who
who was the original hacker of that
information, who has the capacity to be
able to do it.
And so, you know, I I have my
>> have evidence.
>> I don't have a um a a a a forensic a
digital forensic uh
evidence that it was hacked by this
person or this entity or this
organization. That it was Mossad or that
it was the GRU or that it was um or that
it was some kid in his basement and you
know uh and that you know figured it
out. But here's the point. Overall,
here's the thing. Is I get caught in
these conversations about all of this.
But the reality is this.
Of what was distributed that was
authentic it's all mine.
All those emails.
>> Yeah, yeah, I got it, Buckley.
>> And you know what? You know what not a
single one of them proves
of any criminality of my father
whatsoever. Of any way in which I ever
sent an email saying, "Hey Dad, I need
you to get this done on behalf of a
client of mine." Now, I think that's
dispositive. And I challenge anybody
because it's all out there.
The entire digital footprint. And I'm
not just talking about
my emails. I'm talking about our 20
years of emails. I'm talking about 20
years of text messages. I'm talking
about erased voicemails.
>> [snorts]
>> Like deleted voicemails, deleted
photographs.
>> actually delete. That's what you're
saying.
>> They clearly don't. I mean voicemails
from my dad to me. And but that's not
the only voicemail that was out there.
There But not a single one of them in
which I say, "Hey, when my dad is in
office or in power as vice president or
president in which I say, 'Hey, Dad, I
need you to do this for me.' Or
or even contacting one of his staff or
so. Either I'm incredibly, incredibly,
incredibly good
at it you know, in active addiction as a
crack addict, or it doesn't exist. It
truly literally doesn't exist. The
entire narrative of the Biden crime
family. I mean, I literally
unlike anybody else is like I say to
everybody, "Okay, show me your phone."
Because I showed you mine and you didn't
find a goddamn thing. Not one thing.
Every investigative body in the United
States of America has investigated me
for over
10 years at that point. And not one
single thing of
criminal
activity other than use of drugs.
And all of the things that are
that are associated with with with
addiction is proved by the laptop.
>> So, is the world getting more stable or
less stable? That's a rhetorical
question. We're not in charge of the
world, but you are in charge of in fact
responsible for your own family and your
savings. The dollar has lost nearly a
third of its purchasing power in 6
years. That's crazy. You know what
hasn't? Gold. And that's one reason you
should think about gold right now. It's
about 25% below its high from earlier
this year, which is amazing. Gold,
relative to its power and endurance, is
pretty cheap right now. Central banks
are reducing their reliance on
Treasuries and increasing their holdings
of, yes, [music] gold. Ray Dalio,
founder of the world's largest hedge
fund and a friend of ours, recommends
holding up to 15% of your portfolio in
gold. He started Battalion Metals to
give Americans an honest, fair-priced
way to buy metals.
Battalionmetals.com/tucker
is the place to go to learn more about
buying metals, gold and silver, precious
metals IRAs, secure storage, all of it.
Battalionmetals.com/tucker.
When did you find out that the contents
of your digital life were in
circulation?
>> That day that the New York Post released
it.
>> And you had no idea?
>> No idea. None.
>> What were you doing that day? How'd you
find out? So,
>> it was like 2 weeks before the
uh election, right? October I'd
>> So, up until that day you had no clue
cuz the FBI had the material.
>> None. None. No No clue. Zero.
Zero.
>> I'm sorry, I stepped on your answers.
What were you doing that day when you
found out?
>> I was with Melissa
and Bo was
uh let's see,
about eight uh
six months old.
And a friend of ours
uh we were in LA and a friend of ours
said, "Hey, come out to uh Palm Springs.
I got a um Airbnb on like a a golf
course there and it's really cool. You
guys have never been out there and it's
like we're we're in the home stretch
now. It's like, you know, I have
survived the
I mean, because be even before the
laptop remember I mean they were beating
the out of me. That's when Donald
Trump was doing the where's Hunter
thing. I didn't have any you know
security like I don't have today but I
didn't have then is you know it was just
me and Melissa and a baby.
And with anytime we went outside the
house is like people would follow us
everywhere and and not just to follow us
but to harass us and because Donald
Trump was going to his rallies and his
big line was and they were selling
shirts where's Hunter. So everybody felt
it was incumbent upon them if they
supported Trump and Maga to find Hunter
you know to go and find where's Hunter.
And so we drive out to Palm Springs and
we get there and we unpack you know put
my bag in the room and there's like a
little plunge pool out of the back of
this little house.
And um
and I get a call.
And it's a a friend of mine who was also
my lawyer at the time and he said
some guy saying that New York Post is
saying somebody has your laptop?
And you know it took me years to piece
it all together.
And so one of the things that I
I've done over the course of the last 7
years other than paint which became
literally the I've I've always painted
but it was literally the thing that
saved my life. Um
it just allowed me to focus
and occupy my hands in a productive way
in which I felt that I was
uh
creating and also allowed me to get out
of myself and not be consumed
by the
by the shame.
And of of
uh
of my addiction and all the failings
um
that I perceived in myself at that
moment in time, which you know, in early
addiction and not just through your own
experience, but through the experience
of watching others is a really tenuous
time.
And um
and I've done a lot of writing and and
it took me a long time to figure this
out. Like what happened? How did this
Who was involved? And there's all of
these names and there's like a you know,
a list of 20 Russian names and 20 you
know, I mean all of this stuff.
Um and um
and so I decided on Substack what I
could do is I could basically do the
first draft of that and get the audience
potentially to participate and and and
give me more information. So I'm doing
that on Substack now. And the thing
about it is this is that it was a
complete and utter surprise to me. I had
like we had I I had I was
you know, a little over a year into my
um into my my recovery. I kind of made
it through the the like what I thought
that was the worst of it and then we
were just literally thrown in the middle
of it.
And the worst thing happened was is that
because they were nude pictures
and this is the only reason that Twitter
took them down and Facebook took them
down is they violated their own internal
rules as relates to revenge porn. You're
not allowed to uh
uh publish nude photographs of anyone uh
without their consent uh no matter what
for for whatever reason.
And so that's why
uh on the front page of the New York
Post in the story associated on the
digital with all of the links were like
a ton of nude photos with me of me. I'm
just barely blurred out of the women um
uh that were in it all um uh
consensual, legal, all the those things.
But of course they don't make that
point.
And um and that's why they took it down
but then that became the story.
>> [snorts]
>> You know, the suppression and this idea
that 40 um uh
former
uh intelligence officers said it all it
had all the home hallmarks of a Russian
disinformation campaign. No one in that
40, regardless of what you think of
them,
>> Not much.
>> Yeah, I know you don't but no one in
that 40 ever said that the laptop wasn't
real.
But that's what everybody on the right
decided to say.
>> That first of all, yeah, you know, the
Intel people are the most dishonest
people in our society.
>> way, I'm not going to argue on behalf of
anybody. All I know is that let's just
stick to me. It's not
>> I'm just saying like the point of that
statement was to suggest that the
contents were not real.
>> Well, you may think that but it is it's
it definitely did not say that and all I
know is this. When it was it became
completely out of my control. So
therefore now I was not arguing about
what was on it. Remember what Rudy
Giuliani did? He went to the the the
literally the courthouse steps in New
Castle County
>> Yeah.
>> with Bernie Kerik and he held a laptop
which there's no existing laptop. He had
taken a hard drive or thumb drive and
put it and pretended like there was a
laptop. And the one thing he said was
this contains um uh uh images of of
minor children.
Which
I mean, an absolute complete
and utter effing lie.
And that's what he did because you know
what it didn't uh have on it? It had no
evidence and they had it for over a year
at this point. It had no evidence of
anything
other than I was a drug user but the
problem was
and not only drug user but crack
addict.
And the problem was is that I had gone
uh about 9 months before and I had done
an interview with the New Yorker.
And I admitted everything as it relates
to my addiction. It's probably one of
the smartest decisions I made, not in
conjunction with anybody, but literally
me and Melissa sitting there and I said,
"I'm going to I'm going to tell this guy
everything.
I have to get it off my chest. I can't
have this hanging out there as as we my
dad moves through a presidential
campaign. And let the chips fall where
they may."
And it totally scooped them.
And uh and so what they had to do is
create another narrative around it. That
is evidence of corruption. So when
anybody says, "Hunter Biden," what's
your first thought?
Laptop.
You know, and
>> Can I just say one thing though that
this is what I experienced during that
time?
The allegation that there was abuse of
minors
on the laptop.
>> That came from the Israelis. I'm just
telling you that cuz they came to me
with that. So I know that. And one of
the things that enraged me about the
statement from those sleazy intel guys
is that they blamed the Russians for it.
Now maybe the Russians had a hand in it,
but it was the Israelis who were pushing
that. Fact. Fact. I mean literally to
me.
>> Yeah.
>> So
>> And you've gone through it.
>> But they're all such sleazy guys.
>> that's just I want to clear with the
with your entire like, you know,
not a single thing in my anything that
is in any way true about that.
>> Well, that's such a serious crime that I
think it's just common sense that if
there was evidence of that
>> that it's common sense? But I'll tell
you what, uh about about 40 million
people on um on on X don't think that.
You know, I mean it's like
>> There was an abuse of minors in there?
If there was evidence of that
>> how many You know how many people call
me a pedophile?
To this day?
Anyway,
that I'll I'll I'll spare you. But I'm
not What I But I agree with you. That's
exactly right. And you know, it's um
>> But they were pushing that so hard and
all the intel guys are like, "Oh, it's
Russia." It's like, you lie. You lie cuz
they called me. I sent one of my
producers out to go meet with
one of
guy who connected to Netanyahu. They
were they were behind that and I felt
that everybody in DC knew that, but
there was so much pressure never to
criticize Israel in any way that they
were just like, "Oh, it's the Russians.
It's the Russians. They're they're the
ones penetrating our political system."
It's like, "You lie. Everyone knows
what's actually happening." That This
was my perspective and it drove me
insane. And by the way, I didn't say
that on Fox News. I'll admit it. I
didn't. Yeah. I didn't. You're right. I
just want to say I'm was part of the
problem also, but I knew it.
>> But that's the thing, Tucker.
Is it I So so we're here now.
>> Yeah. No, I didn't say we see Israel.
>> No, I'm saying the what what what I'm
saying. But we're here now.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's one of the reasons why. It's
just on a purely selfish basis for me.
Is it like I don't know how you could
possibly have thought that up me. And by
not saying it, I thought that you
thought that up me. I mean, it was one
of the it's like the it's like
I I am it it is
>> Thought that the child molestation
thing?
>> Or whatever. Yeah, all like all of this
stuff.
Or any of it. You know what I mean? Like
the the um
>> Well, people addicted to drugs,
especially cocaine, I know for a fact,
get pretty dark. That's just a fact.
They do. They do. They definitely do and
it
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And the cocaine thing
>> way, it's all there.
>> Well, I guess I I guess I don't need to
tell you that.
But I'm
you're not the only person
>> Yeah, exactly. But there's a big
difference
Yeah, there's a big difference between
that and and the reality of what's out
there, which is the worst thing that you
could possibly say about any And that's
my point. My point is is that
I thought I was over it. I was in Palm
Springs. I was there for about 3 hours.
It was the first time that Melissa and I
had gone away because remember, you're
we're still in that kind of COVID period
and people and so uh
we're we're out there and I get this
call, and I'm and it's just like
your whole world kind of um
like
you know, you just like this kind of
void opens up, and you just like think
that you're about to get sucked into it.
Because what's the worst thing that you
could ever say about someone, in my
opinion,
is that that Oh, is the is the reality
that you're And that's what Rudy
Giuliani was saying.
And
and um
>> Were you ever close to going back on
drugs during this period?
>> No. No.
And and because I knew this,
is that
I
I don't want to give people the
impression that it's not available to
them that they that but it was a
miracle.
The miracle of my life at that moment,
despite
that uh
despite all of these um
uh
consequences.
Like like just not not I mean landing
like nuclear bombs in my life.
Um
is that I
was in a better place and continue to be
in a better place than I've ever been in
my life. As I would like you know, I've
been stripped to the bone.
There's nothing There is no There was no
facade. Like you have to uh the entirety
of my ego
was uh
was destroyed.
Like all of those things that you
protect that out of fear what you don't
realize that they're out of fear, but
almost all of them are out of fear. It's
like what
you you're talking about um
the vanity.
>> Yeah.
>> I believing that you could change the
course of the of of of of this
administration of history of being there
and that you could overlook all of the
things that that that you know of him in
order to save the world. Like
that's a beautiful thing to hear someone
admit to be being that introspective to
be able to do that. In the same way, I
was so
emasculated
that I had to make a decision to live or
die. And in the living, I had to live in
that in that uh
that emasculation.
That uh
completely stripping of ego.
And um
And it didn't it it wasn't instant and
it wasn't like I um
uh woke up the next morning and didn't
think like the sun would ever come up,
which I kind of felt.
>> Yeah.
>> But then Bowie woke up.
You know, and those little 9-month-old
or 6-month-old at the time.
And I look at this in amazingly
magnificent woman that has saved me
that is uh lying there.
And
and I thought
you know what?
I have to choose to live.
Like
like like I I want this life.
I want this love.
I don't want to be afraid. I'm going to
choose to live. And I would and then it
just became a matter of moment by moment
having to make that choice at the
beginning.
>> wife and get sober?
>> You know,
it's crazy story and I write I wrote
about it and I like I said that if any
of my uh children came to me and and uh
and told me this story, I would probably
have them committed.
>> [laughter]
>> But it was truly love at first sight.
Yeah, a long story that what that uh
I've written about, but
uh
and I was in active addiction and um
staying at a hotel and
uh
>> Where?
>> At the Petit Ermitage in in West
Hollywood at the time, which is
a new hotel, yeah. Yeah.
And um I was at the pool.
I got kicked out the next day, but the
on the roof. And um
And this uh
these two people sat down uh next to me
where I was alone. I was reading a book.
Uh
And uh they struck up a conversation as
the pool kind of filled up during the
day. And
at one point they turned to each other.
No, never met them before.
They said, "You have to You have to meet
our friend Melissa."
And I said, "Sure, sure." And um
uh and I had no intention of meeting
anyone. I'd gone to LA basically to to
to to um
to choose the coward's way out of of uh
suicide, which was I knew that the drugs
and drinking would eventually take me.
And um
and I had broken all contact with every
anyone that
cared for me or loved me. And they
called every day, and I just didn't
answer.
Now and I'm sitting there ooh, and it
was
an incredibly incredibly dark moment in
my life and um the darkest.
And for some reason I I did this thing.
I said, "Yeah, yeah, just give me your
number. I'll call." Because they
insisted they insisted they insisted
that I call this this woman.
And um
I said, "I can remember any number.
If you tell me a number,
I can remember it."
And um
and of course I can't
I can't remember the number. But it was
my way of getting out of the situation.
And I had left my book there, so like 2
hours later I came back to pick up my
book
at on the chaise lounge that I was and
the woman said, "What's the number?"
And I said, "Uh and she said, "I knew
you were lying."
And she had a pen in her hand, and she
wrote it on my on my hand.
And um
that night I was taking a shower and I
didn't I didn't I couldn't the
difference between 9:00 at night and
2:30 in the morning. I I mean, I I
literally was staying up 10 days at a
time. I mean, it was it was awful. And
uh
And uh and I'm about to wash this off my
hand. I thought I think
I should probably really call this
woman.
>> [laughter]
>> So, I texted that number and I said,
"Hey, your friends gave me your number.
Would you like to get a drink?"
>> And at 2:30 in the morning?
>> 2:30 in the morning. And the response I
got back was I'm paraphrasing, but it
was like, "Who the F is this? And it's
2:30 in the morning. No."
And um
and for some reason, I in the in the
morning,
I felt like that was really
that's rude to do to a woman.
Like it's not just like funny like you
made a mistake or like that you like
that that was really rude. And I don't
know where that it came from in me. The
the
the feeling that I needed to apologize
and say I would I would I would like to
buy you lunch. I didn't realize the
time. I And and uh and she had no idea
who I was.
I mean, not
And uh except for her friends met this
guy at a pool.
And so,
she says that they said you really need
to go meet him. And she said she'd be
over for lunch and then it was 1:00 and
then it was 2:00 and then it was you
know, she'd be there in half an hour and
then it was 4:00 and then it was 6:00.
And finally, sometime in the early
>> this woman?
>> What?
>> Did you
>> Nothing.
Literally nothing.
>> Just your first name?
>> Yeah. And that's it.
Nothing. Not a picture, not anything.
And um
I walk up and now I'm over at the Sunset
Marquis, which is up the hill because
you know, every hotel I stayed at, I
didn't want to do anything wrong. There
was just like the the the cast of
characters that would be in and out of
my room. They decided that, you know, in
the morning they missed we don't have
another we don't have availability. It
was like, "Hotel looks empty to me."
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, well, and so I had moved to over
to this other hotel. And this is when I
still had a little bit of
uh
money to be able to pay hotel bills and
I wasn't in the, you know, the super
eight.
But
I walk up and there's this outdoor
seating area and I see this woman
and she was wearing a denim shirt just
like this.
And
I walk up to the table
and I know this sounds melodramatic and
like I'm making it up. But I looked in
her eyes.
And I and I saw eyes that saw me.
And
and I said, "I know that this sounds
crazy.
But I'm in love with you."
>> That's the first thing you said to a
woman you never met before?
>> The first thing.
And and again, I know it sounds crazy.
[laughter]
>> Yeah.
>> And um
and the craziest part is though, the
miracle of it is is that she didn't run.
She saw
through me. I mean, she saw not through
me. She saw me.
And within 3 hours I had told her
everything that I had not told the
people that tried to love me back into
existence for for the the previous 2
years.
She literally
was I said I said
about 2 hours in I said, "I have a I'm
I'm addicted to crack cocaine.
Like I'm I'm I'm killing myself." She
said, "That ends today."
And it didn't end that day. It ended the
crack ended within uh a week and then
the alcohol Yeah, and the alcohol ended
within
within uh
like uh 20 days.
I I count June 1st
In June, I I count June 1st as my uh
sobriety date. And you know, from that
moment I said that to her,
we were married 10 days later.
>> That's like one of the craziest stories
I've ever heard in my life.
>> And it And it remains a miracle. You
know my daughters and um
there's nothing that I love more in the
world than uh than them and the uh
And and they spent
I always say the greatest sin of my
addiction was my absence from my
children.
As you know, the one thing about my dad
always taught me about uh
is that they're being available.
is and and during a time in their life
when
they loved their Uncle Bo. They loved
their Uncle Bo as much as I loved them.
And he was like a second father to them.
And in his uh and after Bo died and then
they they lost me
for a period of time. And there's an
enormous trauma in that.
And um my point about talking about the
girls is that
like
I don't like my father, my family, my
sister, my uncle, my aunt, my Valerie,
the my mom, you know, they all tried to
save me. I mean, they I have the I have
the most incredible family in the world.
But it took a stranger
to see
uh
the love
left in me.
And and I don't know why,
but it was it to me, and I love to think
of it this way, by the way,
that it was a a miracle, that there was
something divine about it.
And um um
and I'm a I'm I'm a firm believer in
that in the in in that faith
that sometimes um
the things that we cannot explain
are God acting in our life in a way in
which uh
it might as well
uh it
that that it tried to get to us in every
other way possible and then finally they
have to smack you over the head with
>> Yes.
>> with a hammer.
>> I believe that so strongly. That is
true. That's a fact.
>> Yeah.
And for me
that is the truth about all of this
is that
I think that I've been given a gift.
And the gift of my addiction that
brought me to that point where it could
totally break me.
Not for me to go out and aggrandize
myself in a way in which I uh tell a
different story than what actually
happened but to tell the actual story.
That's why I ain't talking about the the
you know the the laptop or this or the
the I you know defending myself. But the
story that I get to tell is that there
are such there is such a thing as
redemption.
And that's not the outward redemption.
This is not like some
This is the inward
that you can find
the person that is worthy of love in
yourself.
Uh
all of the things and all of the
mistakes that I made in my life.
And when I I I don't mean you know uh
all of the the narrative that has been
out there but the mistakes that I've
made in my life in terms of
relationships in terms of
uh you know
has have all been based in fear.
Fear of not being enough. Fear of not a
fear of not living up to uh some
expectation. Fear of being found out.
Fear of being um embarrassed.
You know I mean everything from as
something as trivial as like
you know, fear of you know, asking the
girl to dance.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and I drank over that and I
used over that or fear of you know, the
of having to um come to terms with the
trauma of losing my mother and my
sister.
Or facing it in any way.
Or fear of being found out that I you
know,
like
that I'm not really
uh
as good as I I think that I am. That I
that I I I am that person that people,
you know, want to view as the
the privileged fail son that's never
done anything with his life.
And all of that fear has evaporated.
It's I'm not without fear.
>> [laughter]
>> I still
but in a very different way.
And there's no way that I could have
gotten here
without having gone through
that.
And that's the promise
of
uh
of at least not picking up a drink or a
drug today.
Is it maybe I can get there? I'm saying
to somebody I said we're talking before.
I don't think that there's anything that
is has more um
uh
cre- uh
guidance in my life than the Serenity
Prayer.
Is being able to really truly understand
the things that you can change
as compared to the things that you have
no control over.
>> Yes.
>> And that's not about
feeling powerless.
But
for instance, what it made me think of
is what you just said.
>> Yeah, I know. I agree completely.
>> And you you have to
>> to think that you can change certain
like you're in charge of the world now,
you're God? I mean, no, you're not.
>> Yeah. And there's that incredible and I
don't know if it's apocryphal or if it's
true that quote from Mother Teresa in
which she says if if you want to change
the world, go home and love your family.
>> Exactly.
>> And
in loving my family, what I also
realized is my family is much larger
than
my um
my immediate
blood.
And beyond just my just first circle of
friends.
My family is a is a group of people that
are still sick and suffering.
That are literally to step out that
door, that are um
uh
that are uh that feel that there is no
hope and no way out for them and that
they are caught in a cycle of
degradation and demoralization and
violence because of the drug or the
alcohol which is the worst in my
opinion, worst drug that there is.
Um that they're addicted to it, yeah.
>> I agree with that.
>> Yeah.
And um
and
and
but it starts
you know, in the immediate. And then
hopefully it radiates out. If it's done
with sincerity and authenticity and and
you're not living a double life, you
know, for whatever reason.
You're not working on behalf of a
corporate chill. You're not working on
I'm not I'm I'm not pursuing a
a goal of which, you know, I you know,
I'm a consultant in Washington D.C. and
I you know,
you know, I mean, like
what what what
it was all
It was all What was I adding
to the conversation? What was I adding
to the
to the to the discourse? What what
purpose was, you know, any of of that at
the time?
Um
I don't do that anymore and that's why
I'm an artist and that's why I write and
that's why I'm speaking out and that's
why I I work with an organization called
Peak Path Health which is a great rehab
in in LA but I'm helping set up a
foundation for them for aftercare. I
work with an organization called Basta
Universal, which does uh homeless
prevention and um
and uh tenants' rights advocacy in in
LA. And that's not to say, "Oh, I'm such
a good guy." I mean, because I get paid.
>> [laughter]
>> And and and I enjoy the work, and I
think that they're really good people.
And I and I write a Substack because I'm
I I hope to get paid. I hope people go
read it so that I can make a living. You
know,
I was telling you before, my my uh you
know,
uh I really believe in cryptocurrency. I
really believe in those things. I want
to do something in that space. And, you
know, not because of any other thing
than I believe in it, but you know what?
I also want to make some money.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's my life now. I get to say
that and say, "But this is me." I'm not
running for anything.
You gave me a platform. I'm going to use
it. And not only am I going to use it to
benefit myself and my family, but
hopefully benefit people along the way.
And I would ask the same of you, which I
think right now, and not this is like,
who am I to ask, is that
I think that we have such an opportunity
to find common ground, to do this a
different way.
You are
if not the most
in my estimation, the most talented
communicator of your generation.
And whatever anybody has to say about
you
is that there is no doubt
is that you are a incredibly effective
communicator. As is Candace, by the way.
>> Yes.
>> Um
and I think that you have an opportunity
to uh and and this isn't like, you know,
training all uh you know, ammunition on
the administra- I'm saying the
opportunity to find
that uh you know, common purpose.
>> You wonder if it's if it's in the port
>> Without the vanity of it, and I mean it,
clearly.
>> No, no, I strongly agree. I mean, we're
here for a reason, and once you're past
Once you get out of debt, it's like,
what's the point of accumulating money?
I I really feel that's what it
>> that's exactly the way I feel. Just get
me out of the debt. And that's the other
thing, people don't like, "Oh, you're
not you you like
I mean,
millions of dollars and I
uh uh uh
you know, law firms and others and and
um
Yeah, anyway, so.
>> Yeah, you know about that.
>> [laughter]
>> But I I wonder if like there
Nothing you have said, you grew up in a
very famous political family. I know you
grew up in Delaware, but
>> Yeah.
>> your world revolved around Washington.
You went to school there, you lived
there.
>> I went to college there, yeah.
>> Yeah, I went to college there. Um
You know the political system really
well. You've said nothing about it,
basically.
You haven't suggested a political
solution to any of this. I don't think
that's an accident, cuz I think
there probably isn't a
immediate I mean, you can make things
better in the margins, but like the
problems that people face
are mostly not political problems.
They're
>> No, right.
>> So, I think that we overstate the
importance of like voting for this or
that guy. I mean, to me, that's the
lesson of Trump. Like, I campaigned for
the guy.
There things about him I still like. I
don't think he's like
you know, [clears throat] he's
complicated, like everybody is
complicated, but
but it didn't work.
It didn't work. Didn't matter that you
voted for him. You You got the same
thing that you're going to get if you
voted for Kamala Harris. Like, you
That's That's my perspective on it.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, what does that tell you? It
tells you that you're putting your faith
in the wrong thing, which isn't a
political system, whereas
there's got to be a real solution that
begins with changing people's hearts.
That's what I think.
>> Exactly.
Exactly.
Because
uh
it it comes from us. We're trying to
find the problem out there.
>> Exactly.
>> And it's here. Yeah, we're the problem.
Yes. [laughter]
>> Right. No, I
I've I've discovered that about myself.
>> And so all the people out there that
have such a problem with me sitting down
with you or sitting down with Candace
and like what the and like
I didn't I'm not hard enough on you. You
do you got to apologize for this and you
got to do this. It's like you know what?
F them.
Here's my Here's my point. It starts
with us.
Like
I'm not going to ever change.
I
like I like I can get into the whole
debate about the Democratic Party and
whether or not want to label something a
Democratic Socialist this. You know what
I think? I like people who believe in
what they
have a conviction.
>> Yeah.
>> And they
and and they're honest about it.
>> I totally agree.
>> I don't agree with everything that
uh uh Jamaal Bowman does, but you know
what? He has conviction, he has
competence, and you know, like I mean,
he balanced the budget.
Crime is at record low in New York right
now.
And regardless of what you think about
him, is that like so from a political
perspective,
I don't care if it's Jamaal Bowman or
Thomas Massie.
And I don't agree with 90% of the stuff
that that
in turn I think I don't, but I don't
think that matters in this moment in
time.
I don't think any of those labels matter
in time. I want someone with the courage
of their conviction,
principles,
that is
but it's all starts here.
All starts here. And everybody else can
nitpick around whether you know
all of the labels that we applied to
each other and and all of the vitriol
and and there has to be like I think
there needs to be you know,
accountability for the people that are
literally robbing us
effing blind.
And I think there will be accountability
for that. I think that but my point is
is in this moment, can we not all see
that we are about to
uh uh
reach a point in in the evolution of of
of humanity
that is
uh a will be a larger step
than in the in in the entirety of the
existence of this earth.
>> And like
>> [laughter]
>> so what does all of it matter? If you
have people that drive me crazy like
Elon Musk and every other person that
has a um a hand in which is a handful of
them
and what's happening with AI right now.
Telling us in in
easily within the next 5 years if they
haven't already done it
that we're going to reach AGI.
And if we reach AGI then we're
not more than a a a
maximum of another 5 years, more likely
two or three away from
superintelligence. And once that happens
we literally have taken a step in the
evolution of of of humanity and uh of
humankind. And the largest singular step
that will ever be taken in our
the exponential way in which things will
advance from there is completely outside
of our control. And the only thing that
we can hope for is that we have leaders
that are that that have humanity's best
interests in mind. And I don't know
>> [laughter]
>> I don't want I shouldn't I say I don't
know. I do know. I think we have the
exact wrong leadership at the moment.
>> I totally agree. I vehemently Do you
know anybody in your life who you talk
to who's like very excited about AI?
Cuz I don't. I don't really know anyone
who's really for this. Who Where's the
constituency for this? It seems like the
population doesn't want it at all.
>> You know, I I don't know know why anyone
would want the um uh
want it in the way that it's being
offered to us. Look, the what the thing
I say is this. It's not theirs.
What they're building is off the back of
the output of
of
all of humanity.
>> I agree.
>> It's ours. It belongs to me. It belongs
to me just as in much as it belongs to a
San Bushman in the Kalahari.
It belongs to us from the moment that
there was a cave painting that was put
into a digital database and the and and
in a context to the the poetry of
Shakespeare to the book that you wrote
to
um
you know, to my last podcast.
Take it transcript.
That is what is AI.
It's all of ours.
Every scientific discovery, every single
public dollar, all of it is we own it.
And
we somehow are going to make like five
or six individuals in in this country
trillionaires?
By allowing them to literally
rob us of that and make it theirs and
them decide? Like do you trust Sam
Altman to be the the to decide the fate
of of humanity or or any of them for
that matter?
>> I I've done a you know, thousands of
interviews over 35 years and I've never
had the feeling of wanting to run out of
a room more strongly than I had when I
talked to Sam Altman. So he's he's he's
out of 350 million Americans, he's
probably 350 millionth of who I'd trust.
>> Yet
>> to control the future of humanity?
>> Yet yet here we are. Right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yet here we are. And and and and you
know what we're doing?
Is I'm supposed to hate Tucker Carlson
because he's an anti-Semite and he's
this I know you're not you're not an
anti-Semite. I mean 100% know that
you're not an anti-Semite. Yeah, no,
that's what my point being is that
>> I would just say so.
>> My point being is is that
like
if it's anti-Semitic to point out that
Bibi Netanyahu is evil incarnate,
then, you know what? I don't know what
to say to I don't know what to say to
people anymore.
I mean, all you have to do is just open
your eyes.
Just literally open your eyes. Open your
heart for 1 minute.
>> Yeah.
>> And realize, you know,
I
>> an obvious lie. It's like who's even
intimidated by that anymore?
>> My point is is like how is it possible
that they're dividing us on things like
that?
>> I agree.
>> And I can tell you how it's possible.
It's the distraction that is being
created by a handful of individuals and
the people that work for them to keep us
divided through our algorithm. And as
much as you're not a uh
uh
addicted to um your phone because you're
not on social media and things like
that, the vast, vast, vast majority of
us are, myself included.
Is everyone has a pocket full of heroin,
and they access it
a
literally a thousand times a day.
>> saying you got off crack and more
impressively alcohol?
>> Yeah. No, I'm not I'm not that bad. All
I'm saying is
>> off your phone.
>> No. No, I am I I I'm very I'm I'm not
nearly um
I'm very wary of it. I'm very wary of
anything like that. But what I'm trying
to say to people is that I'm no better
than anybody else.
>> Yeah.
>> I look at my phone just as you know, as
much as anybody else. I don't feel that
it is necessarily a problem, but what I
do find is like for instance,
uh
is that you gravitate towards the
negative things people say about you
>> Yes.
>> way more than you ever gravitate to the
to the beautiful things that people say
about you.
>> so true.
>> So, I'm on X, and the amazing thing was
is that
I I go on X,
and I start talking about addiction, but
I also start talking about, you know,
the absurdity of the moment that we live
in and some of the players that are
that are outsize characters in in this
in this
morality tale we're living through.
And
and there's these beautiful messages
from people
about their own struggle and their own
addiction. And you
my sister I showed my sister what you
wrote about X, Y, or Z and, you know,
she said it gave her the strength to to
to make it through one more day. And
these beautiful things where people
would say, "Hey, I'm a three-time Trump
voter, but I just want to say keep on
keeping on, brother. Like I love you for
your, you know, for your recovery. It
gives me hope."
>> [laughter]
>> And there's thousands of those messages.
But, you know, what happens is that, you
know, the the one that catches your eye,
the one that says, you know, you're
shut up, you you know, you crackhead,
pedophile, you know, you're you know,
criminal and you stole from and like
it's like
and it and it it was a great lesson for
me and the experience that everyone is
having, not just on X, but across the
board in which we're all being and and
it's and it's purposeful. The thing that
I never fully
believed in until I read all the this
whistleblower is how intentional it is.
And as long as we're looking at each
other,
as long as we're trying to find all of
the things that are wrong with our life
in the other. And by the way, whether
it's the other, that's the immigrant, or
whether it's the other, that's our
neighbor,
is we're not looking at ourselves.
And we're not focused on the things that
really matter.
And one of the things that really
matters is we better wake up.
Wake up into the way in which we're
being led by the nose.
And have
to believe that we all hate each other.
>> And it's making us worse.
I mean there's this one of my favorite
scenes in the Gospel of Luke is, you
know, that the parable that Jesus the
story that Jesus tells about the two men
who go to pray at the temple.
>> Mhm.
>> And one's the Pharisee and one's the tax
collector and the Pharisee looks over
and says, "God, thank you for for not
making me that guy cuz he is a pig. He's
a sinner unlike, you know, a righteous
good person like me."
And the tax collector who knows he's a
sinner cuz he's a thief and he knows
he's a thief and everyone knows he's a
thief.
>> Yeah.
>> Doesn't even look up. He can't even look
at God and he just says, "Have mercy on
me."
>> Yeah.
>> And Jesus says, "Who is justified before
God?"
It's not the man who turns to the guy
next to him and says, "I'm better than
you." It's the man who knows that he's
not better than anybody.
That's the man who's justified before
God and I just feel like
all of life is that story.
When you stop looking at other people
and being like, "You suck."
>> Yeah.
>> And look inside and realize that I suck.
That's where wisdom and peace come from.
>> Yeah.
There's a
There's a scene in the Gnostic Gospels
and I forget what she acts of
I forget. Acts of Philip or something.
Anyway, do you know the Have you ever
read the Gnostic Gospels? And really you
got to. They're they're the whole trove
of uh
of uh
Gospels. I mean, a lot of people would
say that it's heresy.
But it's the and um
Emperor you know, when Constantine
unified the church under and uh
and
declared uh Catholicism the
Christianity the um
>> State religion of Rome.
>> State religion of Rome. Um
uh
They basically effectively chose four
Gospels and banned all the other ones.
And they found um
in uh
I forget the and hominid and hominy
they these
2,000-year-old texts which were the
other gospels written by Mary Magdalene
and written by um Philip and written by
um and anyway, there's part of one is
this is it says
Jesus is speaking to the disciples and
this is before and he says
learn to suffer as I do.
And um
and that is that is everything.
That all wisdom comes through suffering.
>> That is true.
>> And in that suffering
you're able to um uh
you're able to love.
In that suffering you're able to see
your see the other.
It's the exact in uh
exactly what that
that you were saying in in Luke.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that is being able to like not being
the person
uh casting judgment.
Rather, and by the way, it's not mean it
doesn't mean that you are
uh
uh
without discretion.
It simply means is that
as much as I'm not going to and you know
what is the
uh
the idea of like my empathy overwhelms
my my um
uh critical thinking.
>> Yes.
>> Is not that. I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about however is uh
is if I
can
feel this strongly about what they're
doing to to to kids in detention centers
in the in in the United States of
America
I can also feel just as strongly about
um uh or have as much empathy
for
um
uh
for someone who feels like they they
have been completely left out and
without any options that are you know,
are living in in Bethel, Maine
that feels that
every that this country has completely
let them down and is looking for
a a hope
something
an an an object for their anger.
And I want to bring them
into the fold.
You know, I want to be able to talk to
them.
Um
those people that
I think
voted out of anger and that are still
looking for um
uh
you know, someone to be their
retribution.
>> For people who are dependent on alcohol,
which is a lot of people
>> Mhm.
>> I think you're absolutely right to say
it's the scariest of all drugs cuz it's
the most insidious. It's just ubiquitous
everywhere.
How do you get off it exactly? You said
you got off crack in 3 days or something
like that, pretty quick.
>> Yeah, well that's the thing is it
>> How do you get off alcohol?
>> Yeah, alcohol is the um
and I mean this in this sense and I have
people push back on me, but I I
alcohol is the most destructive drug
that there is. Not just by virtue of the
fact that it is as ubiquitous as it is.
It is and physiologically
impacts your body. It it it impacts
every organ, every major organ and in
particular every major pleasure center
of your brain.
It's the only drug other than
benzodiazepines that you can die from
withdrawal from. So everybody always you
know, uh you know,
does the Hollywood version of you know,
how horrible it is to come off of
opiates um
or you know, um
or cocaine and the reality is it's it's
really painful and it's uncomfortable
and you think you may are going to die.
But
uh particularly as relates to cocaine,
it's out of your system in 72 hours.
There is no more physiological
uh need for it, and you won't die from
withdrawing from it.
Alcohol, you'll die. You'll go into
seizures. And um
and it stays in your body not just for 3
days, it stays in your body for at least
30, if not more.
And um
and you've created these um you know,
neurotransmitters in your brain that
it's your your brain is still crying it,
you know, 30, 60, 90 days later. Still
crying for you to um
to drink.
And the worst part is all you got to do
is walk out your door.
And usually it's not more than
you know, particularly if you live in a
in a urban environment, you know, a
quarter of a mile from wherever you you
live.
>> one looks at you funny when you have a
cocktail.
>> No, exactly. And it's encouraged. And um
So, uh
for me um it was hard
hard work. Um
is it I this time didn't I I've been to
a number of rehabs, and
and
uh
in 2019 after I met Melissa and she said
this ends is it I started I tapered she
had me taper.
>> How did she know to do that?
>> How did you do completely
[clears throat] intuitive?
And um
I mean it was really really, you know,
incredible.
And she tapered me, and then at one
point it got really bad.
Uh and I had to like true delirium
tremens, and she called a doctor to come
over.
>> What's that like?
>> Uh
literally the feeling that you if you
don't if you don't remove yourself from
your own body that that you're going to
die. Because you you are, you know, I
mean there's there's the real potential
of you dying from seizures. And
it's the most excruciating feeling that
I've ever had of any kind of pain.
And and I'd gone through it before, um
but I had done it in a clinical
environment.
In which they just um you know, usually
use benzodiazepines to wean you that
way.
>> yeah.
>> And so I had weaned enough but not
enough to um to stop that. And so I had
to go through it.
>> Where were you?
>> Uh I was Melissa had rented a house,
this little house
for us in the, you know, up in the
hills.
I mean
uh with
hard to get to from anywhere. Like I
couldn't walk. She took my keys, she
took my wallet, she took my phone, she
erased every number from it. She um that
didn't have the name Biden in it. She,
you know, I mean she had to do the
hardest thing that for anyone that is uh
that loves someone is for a period of
time she had to be my jailer.
And um
and my nurse and a um
and literally, you know, uh nurse me
back to life.
And it is uh you know,
it was
it's incredibly intense at the
beginning, you know, 24/7 that you have
to be there, you know, because you
literally could
particularly with alcohol.
Not particularly, singularly with
alcohol. You could you you could die.
>> How long did it take you to feel better?
>> And that is just 10 days before I could
ever really eat anything and taste it.
>> Actually. [snorts]
>> Yeah, you know.
I mean that would have any interest in
not being forced to eat something.
And then
um
and then you start to, you know,
you have this kind of uh
everything is kind of gray scale,
you know, [snorts] for
even after you get a little bit of a a
boost around 30 days
and then you try to ride that as long as
possible.
But
what happens in your brain is that
uh
somebody explained it to me this way. He
said you have these little messengers
that that alcohol
sends to your pleasure center to your
brain. And so the messengers, imagine
them as little birds. In a normal person
the bird flies up to the birdhouse and
that's your dopamine or whatever it is.
And like a normal, you know, in a normal
situation it's like you have a you have
a happy experience.
And you know, sends two birds up and you
know, uh
to live in the in the birdhouse.
And the maximum you're supposed to ever
have is like 10. It's like the happiest.
What alcohol does is it sends 20 birds
at a time. And so it creates 20
birdhouses. And then
And the next time you use it you want to
get you got to get to 30 birdhouses. And
then it builds 40 birdhouses. And you
have
it then there's a thousand birdhouses.
And when you take the alcohol away
and you have a normal happy experience
like a cup of coffee in the morning
it only sends two birds. And your brain
says there are 998 other birdhouses that
you have to fill for me to feel normal.
And you don't have it.
And there's nothing in a normal
experience that can possibly produce
that except the drug. And so your brain,
the thing that you think
that everyone
of course has to believe
is providing you with rational logical
information is saying, "If you don't get
this, you're going to die."
>> Yeah.
>> And in the case of alcohol, it means it.
>> Yeah.
>> If you don't get this, you're going to
die. And by the way, not only you're
going to die, you're going to feel like
this for the rest of your life.
So fix me.
And so, your brain's telling you.
And so, the first time that you face a
trauma or an obstacle or a or something
good happens,
your brain says, "I know how to make it
better.
I know how to fix it. I know how to make
you not feel this way. I know how to
make you not have this anxiety. I know
how to make you not have this fear.
We've done it before.
Do it."
And that's um uh
that is the
what alcohol at least did as it relates
to to me, but also I'm positive the
science of it is um
anyways, to me the most dangerous thing.
>> I've lived it, and that's a amazing
description and an accurate one, I
think. How do you stay sober for 7
years?
>> Uh um
almost everything that I do is no longer
with the with the idea that I am um uh
like living on a knife's edge. In the
early days though, you really do have to
really protect yourself, not put
yourself in positions of you know, I
people always say to me like,
"Well,
can I still go to the bar with my
friends?" Well, not No.
>> [laughter]
>> You know, getting clean and sober is
really easy. All you have to do is
change everything.
>> Yeah.
>> And that everything and what I really
mean by that is that
>> [clears throat]
>> don't go back and put yourself in the
same exact circumstances
that you were in, where
your same group of friends, if they are
heavy drinkers or, you know,
or your family. Like, if you if you
can't go to Thanksgiving without
everybody getting drunk, maybe don't go
to Thanksgiving this year if you're
trying to get sober.
And
so, that in terms of changing
everything.
But,
staying it it I I promise you everybody,
it gets not only easier, but there's
this thing in in the program that I
practice in which they call the promises
in which you will know and experience an
ease by which life happens.
As you are able to live life on life's
terms in which
like everything it doesn't fix
everything. It look at me.
You know, six and you know, six felony
charges and two trials later and a you
know, and and it it it shouldn't it it
didn't it it didn't solve anything.
It didn't solve all the consequences
that I had to face, but you know what?
Can you imagine what my life would be
like? I'd be dead.
I'm I'm 100% long dead.
If I had decided the only way to be able
to fix this is to anesthetize myself.
I mean, I would be long dead.
And um and that's what they were hoping.
And I truly truly do believe that.
I believe that they knew that the um the
singular what they perceived as my
father's Achilles' heel was his family.
That regardless what anybody says about
Joe Biden that there was nothing more
important to him than his family. And
that he had just lost Beau.
And um and that the idea that that I I
truly believe that they wanted me to
relapse which was equivalent to to
death.
I'm I'm positive they did. What does
that tell you about I mean, why would
One thing I noticed just being living in
Georgetown as a kid and knowing you
know, million people from political
families is the families were all
dealing with tragedies that on a bigger
scale than normal people. Like there's
something about that environment that is
really hard on the on families and you
see it. And the most famous political
families are all lot of casualties.
>> See that that's one of the things that
that um well, number one is I really
truly didn't grow up in DC. Um yeah, and
you You we we really were in Delaware.
And um which is different. And but
your point is that what I found is this
is that I lived it publicly.
But you know, Tucker I what I found is
is that
um
I was in a um
I forget where I was and I the stranger
somebody's driving me and they told me a
story and it told me about their life
and their addiction and that they're you
know you know
their brother was in jail and their
father uh
you know, just got arrested and and
addicts and I think
everybody has those stories.
>> Everybody.
>> That's for sure.
>> Except
mine played out on the front page of the
New York Post in a way that it literally
I don't think it had it for anybody any
political family ever. I mean even the
Kennedys to the degree in which they you
know uh
and I really mean that like
uh
I mean the total
evisceration of anything or even the
notion that I deserved any privacy.
I mean I I really like I I look at some
people and I say
like
just
put yourself in my shoes for 1 minute.
On what level? On what level is it do
you think that that was right?
You know,
I I look like somebody like Miranda
Devine and just on what level could
would if that was if that was Ivanka.
And I'm not talking about like
just take the her existing 20-year
digital footprint everything that she's
ever done. It's like I guarantee you
that and I don't I don't know.
I guarantee you everybody has a nude.
Everybody has a picture that they don't
want to see. Everybody has a text
message out of context. Everybody has a
voicemail they wish that they hadn't
left. Everybody has a
an email in which and
it doesn't have the entirety the email
chain. Like you know how many
conspiracies theories were born out of
the fact that I wrote Buckley a
um a
>> [clears throat]
>> recommendation to his school which you
reminded me he didn't get into.
You know what I mean? Like
like out of context
you are able to do some and it how is
that in any way fair? However, that's
what happened.
And um
>> What's your wife think? I mean, you
>> [laughter]
>> I just was thinking like
>> Like she's like talk about
>> She didn't sign up for this.
>> Yeah. Like talk about like
uh you know
>> Yeah.
She is so tough. She's like a
She is a a um
She is a warrior.
She's amazing.
She is absolutely amazing.
I mean, look.
I mean, I wasn't There's no way that I
could even prepare for it and I and this
has been my life.
None.
That I could prepare for it.
Fact she didn't run
says everything that you need to know
about her.
Because
the one much other upside
Well,
the truth is that
uh
Bowie beat Bowie's the
the ultimate upside. My So,
but
she's she is
She is in one amazing person.
>> What's your plan? You're on a path.
>> Yeah.
>> It seems like you kind of
moved into it sideways, maybe not with a
plan. I don't know.
>> No.
>> But you're clearly moving in some
direction. Where is that headed?
>> I don't know.
And that's one of the things.
Is it I don't um I know the things that
I care about. I care about reaching
people that are still sick and
suffering. I really do because by the
way, not because I'm a hero, not because
I'm some saint and I want You know why?
Because
it's the most rewarding thing that I've
ever done in my life.
It gives me sustenance. It makes me feel
good about myself.
I mean it. Like
it makes it it makes it easier for me to
make it through the day.
And so it's purely selfish.
And that's one of the things about
sobriety that I tell everybody is that
the ultimate goal is to get to the end
and particularly as it relates to the
program that I practice that you get to
the end of the steps and the whole thing
is so that you can be of service to
somebody else and not because you are
sainted at the end and all of a sudden
you're Saint Francis walking among the
you know, the forest. It's because it's
the thing that saves you. The only way
to truly get out of yourself is to do
for somebody else.
Is to you know, to sit here and and and
and and
for me
the easy the easiest is to find other
people that have had you know, same and
similar experience and and
and it's not like you have to look far.
>> No.
>> I mean they're around every single
corner.
There's somebody. And that's what's the
beautiful discovery that I had.
So there's that. I want to meet you I
want to reach a million people in
recovery and I want I I've created this
thing at 1000000biden.com
{slash} recovery
in which uh anonymously for nothing
other than to create a a storyboard, a
story core. As people get to share their
experience, strength and hope because
what I what what helped save me was
realizing I wasn't alone.
And I want to write about it and I'm
going to put it on Substack and part of
it's free and part of it's subscription
and I and and I want to continue to
practice my art.
And um and
ultimately at the end of the day is that
like anybody else is that you know, I
want to um I want to have the financial
security to be able to you know, to uh
to not constantly
feel as if I have to make um you know,
choices that I don't want to have to
make like anybody else like anybody else
in their life. How close are you to
financial security? Uh like I'm a
million miles away.
Um I'm several million miles away. Yeah,
I am. But um
Yeah, uh you know, my uh
Winston Strawn wants their money. Um uh
lawyers. Uh yeah, my yeah, for Oh, yeah,
all It's all legal bills. Yeah. And um
and uh
Anyway, like tens of thousands of
dollars. Oh, no, millions of dollars.
Millions of dollars.
Millions. I mean, just the the uh
I don't know exactly what it is. I think
it's between 4 and 6 million that
Winston Strawn says I that that I owe
them for
for my
>> [laughter]
>> my couple of convictions and anyway,
yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of money.
>> How do you How does that affect you?
>> I don't know. I I I would hope that they
uh
Oh, how does it affect me?
It affects me in this way is that um
I have to find a sensible solution and a
way through. Um I really um
uh uh
have wanted to avoid um bankruptcy.
Uh
And because the the the road back from
that is just so long and I'm 56 years
old. And but I don't allow it to consume
me.
You know what I mean? I really don't. I
And and I can't. Um
Uh it is uh
I don't want it to be the principal
motivating factor for for everything I
do because the truth of the matter is
the mountain so
it's such a long climb that I I I don't
I don't see the solution to it right
now.
Um but the one will present itself.
And I think cooler heads will prevail
and and and, you know,
and uh
I'll be able to um
I just have faith.
I don't know, man. I just have faith.
It's not blind faith. Just work hard.
I mean, I'm I'm I'm really working
my ass off. I mean, everybody says, "Oh,
go get a job." I have two jobs. I have
two jobs and then on top of that I have
I all of this that I'm trying to do. And
then I'm
you know, I a whole thing that I've been
um trying to build is relates in in the
in in that uh I you know, I'm I'm
working my butt off and and doing that.
You know, they they took away my law
license, which means that that avenue
that I spent, you know, 25 years working
towards to graduate from Yale Law School
is not open to me right now. Um
and so I have to in many ways, you know,
uh reinvent myself, but not out of whole
cloth.
I'm spending the past 7 years, you know,
I'm really really dedicated to my art.
I'm really dedicated to the to the to
the work of of writing. You know, you're
a brilliant writer.
And you you you know this better than
anybody. It's
it is it isn't it is a practice as much
as an art.
>> It's an art.
>> as much as it's an art.
>> And and um
and so I've been practicing that
discipline since I wrote my first book.
And
and so I have a lot to say and um
and um and there's ways to be able to do
that now.
And
uh ways to be able to do that that can
um you know, that like I think it's
really important for me to be authentic
about everything. There are also the
ways in which I can do it, in which I
hopefully can um uh put food on the
table.
>> Last question is about faith. How has
this affected how you feel about God?
And changed your
your relationship?
>> I don't know whether I would say that
it's changed, but it is deep in my um in
belief in whether you want to call it
I do as God.
Is
the the
the absolute certainty
of this.
There is literally
in both the
theological, but also
metaphysical sense, no
distance between
me and you
or anyone.
We are all
literally connected.
And that connection
that universal connection to everything
is what I refer to as God.
Is us realizing
that
all of our fears is delusion.
Is being separated. It's It's all the
idea.
And so
my faith is in the the fact that I know
that um
that there is not a um
that there's not a sentient being that
is not um that
literally is is me.
And and
I don't know if that makes sense to you,
but the but I I truly believe that there
are
there has been a
a
a real thing in my life
that has saved me
time and time and time again.
And that has taught me hard lessons.
Uh
and that I believe that I cannot explain
by other than what I
choose to call God.
>> No question about that. And we do get
glimpses of the connection between
people, all people.
I think that's what we refer to as a
transcendent moment when we like rise
above
all the things we're concerned with and
sort of look down just for a split
second. This happens to people
throughout life and you're like, "Oh,
wait a second."
>> Yeah.
>> You know, people are really connected to
each other on a real way.
>> Yeah.
Yeah.
And when you when you
start to
get honest with yourself
like really, really get honest with
yourself. And I'm not talking about
everybody has to go through what I went
through to be able to get honest with
themselves.
I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Um
but you know, I think that there are
spiritual practices that I did not I
either have the courage or the patience
to endure. You know, I say it's like
it's not like I was moving to Rishikesh
to sit in a cave and meditate for 7
years.
Instead, what I got is a trial by fire.
And um and and [clears throat] like I
said that the complete eradication of an
ego not by courage
or conviction on my part but by
uh
necessary choice to survive.
I had to choose to either stay in bed or
get out and live. And if I was going to
live, I had to let go of that.
>> Yes.
>> And I did.
And uh
and for now today
it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
It's a beautiful thing. It doesn't solve
everything. It doesn't solve my debt. It
doesn't solve my, you know,
uh
you know, I still got to, you know, uh
put on my [clears throat] pants like
everybody else and and and uh
and I still have, you know, to deal with
relationship that, you know, I like
anybody else.
Um and and a family that
that I love
drives me crazy and I love it like
everybody else.
But I don't have to live a lie.
Hunter Biden, thank you very much.
Thanks.