What do you think are the three mini
gold rushes happening inside AI right
now that no one is talking about?
>> Yeah, I would say almost like the last
time I was on here, I said that the
thing young people should be doing is
building AI apps and marketing them. But
I realize now that even that is too much
work for the average person to do
despite that being like like a
completely viable way to make her
millions. I think AI video will spawn in
a whole new era of labor for people to
go out and make AI videos for companies
to serve as marketing material or just
completely upend all social medias as we
know it. You know, cuz really that like
that the the where the world happens
today is Instagram reels and Tik Tok
functionally. This is where mom Donnie
gets gets made of New York City. This is
where uh AOC becomes like one of the
most famous politicians in America. This
is where social media is where things
happen. And AI video has the potential
to completely upend social media. And
the easiest, lowest effort thing that
somebody can do to make their riches a
sub gold rush uh of AI is just AI video.
Like go out there and make AI videos.
Email a bunch of companies. Here's a UGC
video that that that I made for you that
you made online. Run this as an ad. And
if it's not profitable, then don't ever
talk to me again. But if it is
profitable, then put me on a retainer
for $3,000 a month, and I'll continue to
make you AI ads just like this. And you
can literally sit there and just [ __ ]
type in AI some some [ __ ] with a
million typos and like make an make an
ad for this company. More broadly
though, I would say the the way to make
money with AI today is to capture the
value of people who do not know how good
AI is right now. There are so many
companies like this. So many people like
this. In fact, I would say 99.9% of
companies in the world today are like
this. They have the opportunity to use
AI for something that they are not
doing. and you whether that's making ads
for them because they're not tapping
into AI video enough. Whether that's
making websites for them because you
know they're they're not figuring that
out enough. Whether it's building AI
apps and then selling that to the
average consumer who doesn't know that
they could buy code this themselves over
a weekend. This is where you stand to
make your money. And there are so so
many ways to make millions of dollars
doing this. There's so many people that
I know who have made millions of dollars
doing the most absurd things, building
the most random apps, doing doing the
most random [ __ ] for for for
different companies. There's marketing
agencies that exist now uh that
subcontract middle schoolers to make AI
videos for them and then sell those as
ads like like the this exact process
that I talked about. I'll make you a
bunch of ads for your company and rather
than having, you know, like like an
in-house uh a grand empire of 40 like
like a huge building with 40 UGC
creators and like like having to go
through all all that nonsense. Literally
just DM a bunch of 14-year-old Tik
Tockers online, have them make the ads
and and then sell that to the company.
There's marketing agencies that exist
like that today. There's marketing
agencies that exist for LinkedIn ghost
writing where you don't do any of the
ghost writing. you just convinced to
someone that you you can make LinkedIn
posts for them and you just generate a
bunch of AI random [ __ ] and the
person that you're selling to doesn't
know at all that what what you just sent
them is completely AI generated and you
didn't even look at it, you know, like
for all they know, there's some [ __ ]
45year-old doesn't even know what
[ __ ] ch is. There's so many people
making money in so many different ways.
And um if you had to ask me, you know,
like like the three subcategories, I'd
say the the the highest level, if you
are the most competent and and and
smartest person watching this video,
then you probably want to do something
that serves the AI labs. You build a
company around whether it's you know
providing them data you know build
building infrastructure for for for for
them to run their run their models on
trying to develop some some some some
sort of thing that will slightly improve
the efficiency of some data chip of of
of of of some chip or GPU anything in
that in that field it's ripe it's it's
the VC money is is is flowing in that
field like truly billions multiple
billions to be made there um if you want
to build an app you know you can you can
you you can go out and build apps if
you're not interested in in taking a
swing at that level you can build an app
you can market it. It's never been
easier to build before. It's never been
easier to market before. And you can
market it with an AI influencer. You can
build an app in an afternoon, get it
approved by the app store in the next 3
days, and you can market it entirely
with AI influencers. And in theory, this
is all possible. It's possible for you
to spawn in a million dollars in a week.
Um, you can do that. You can just go on
some AI video platform and just figure
out like, okay, here's a UGC video that
I think would be funny. Send it to any
company and be on a retainer and just
make 10K a month doing that. There are
there's there's there's just so much so
much so much money to be made at so many
different levels. Me personally, this it
makes me want to go back to every
podcast I've done and every podcast I've
seen about how to make money with social
media and just apply it to AI video
specifically cuz there's a million
different ways people have made money
with videos on social media like uh
YouTube agencies that like sell ads for
creators and there's like long form
content, there's short form content,
there's audio content, there's
transcribing the videos into other
languages so you can make AI videos in
other countries. So, a lot of stuff like
that. There's Facebook ads, UGC content
like you said, but if we let's try to
distill this down to make it super
accessible and you can take your time on
this one. Uh,
if you had to go from zero to a million
dollars in 6 months with AI video, how
would you do it?
>> Step one, search up Cance 2.5. Find any
provider. Step two, find a hundred
software companies who have raised over
$10 million of venture capital.
Step three, for every single one of
them, make a compelling ad. An ad that
you think you would watch on social
media yourself using Cance 2.5. Step
four, email every single one of these
companies every single day with the ad,
telling them, "I made this ad for you
for free. Go run it as an ad. If it's
profitable, put me on a retainer. I'll
make you more ads. If this ad performs
for you, pay me $10,000 a month. I will
make you more ads just like this, and I
guarantee I'll make you money. If it's
not profitable, completely ignore this
email. Never talk to me again, but I
made this for you for free." Email them.
that same thing every single day until
they respond. Step five, uh, repeat this
eight times and, uh, you have eight
clients paying you $10,000 a month and
over a year you make a million dollars,
I guess. Six months. So, sure, repeat it
16 times. Get 16 companies to to sign
this off. By the way, this is something
that I would sign off on.
That would work. I ask people this
question a lot. That would work though.
Damn. And then just any uh, one bit of
advice to add to that on how to make
good AI ads.
If you are young and interested in
making money, one of the only advantages
that you have, because realistically on
average, you're stupider than the
generations before you. On average,
there's more competitors out there in
the space of entrepreneurship than ever
before. And uh one of your only skills
that you have is the skill that you
spent the last 14 years of your life
doom scrolling eight hours a day on Tik
Tok or Instagram res or YouTube shorts
or YouTube kids. And there is actually a
way to use that to your advantage, which
is you have the unique ability. Well, mo
I would say even most people watching
this video and and I really think the
average person watching any video online
is some [ __ ] farmer in Kansas that is
going to be incapable of doing anything
that requires any sort of cognitive
ability at all. But genuinely for the
average person watching this video, it
is possible for them to look at a video
and say this is boring or this is not.
And that is the only skill that you need
to make compelling AI ads or compelling
AI videos that will actually work.
Because what surprises me almost every
single week, at least once a week, I
have an instance of this surprising me
is these 40-year-old boomers on Facebook
do not understand what's boring. They
will genuinely read the most AI slop
[ __ ] ever, the the the the most
disgustingly mash-filled essay ever, and
they'll send it to their grandkids, be
like, "You should read this. This was
inspiring to me." These people genuinely
do not have that sense that you develop
over years of, you know, scrolling.
>> And you're a young guy watching the
video. You're a young young person
watching the video. Like that sense is
the genuinely the only thing you need to
sit down in front of Cance 2.5 and keep
prompting something over and over until
you get something that you think is
funny. Because if you think it's funny
as a 14-year-old who dooms scrolls,
other other 14-year-olds will will will
find it funny. and you will you you you
will have had a video that the the the
40-year-old on Facebook would just never
ever ever have been able to make.
>> I think that's great advice. Yeah. And I
realizing now you can also just look up
a company, go to their Facebook ads, met
a library, whatever, see their longest
running ad, and then remake it with
Cance.
>> Of course. Yes. And and and sell to
their competitors.
>> This is this is good stuff, Roy. Uh, I
mean, do you think getting rich is just
painfully simple in 2026?
>> If this were the 1800s and you wanted to
get rich, first of all, you have to pray
that you're born in America. Second of
all, you have to pray your ass is not
black. Second of all, or third of all,
you got to pray that, you know, your
family has the money to send you to
college. Uh, fourth of all, you you you
you got to pray that you know, like
you're not [ __ ] doomed to be some
coal miner for the rest of your life
because your your father was and your
grandfather was before you and they
don't know anything outside of that and
they would [ __ ] beat you and and kick
you out of the house if you weren't
going to be going to participate in the
coal mining industry. There's so many
loopholes that you had to go through
that are literally just chance by
genetic lottery. Right now, it is true.
It is objectively true. There are more
young millionaires now than ever. You
could have got lucky on some [ __ ]
cryptocoin back in, you know, like four
years ago and you wouldn't have even had
to be 18 years old. You could have
[ __ ] KYCed using your mom's identity.
You could have put 20 bucks in it and
you could have [ __ ] flipped this 20
bucks into millions of dollars. And
there genuinely are 14, 15, 16 year olds
that have done this before. And
perhaps not painfully easy, but getting
rich right now compared to the 1800s is
both painfully easy and is painfully
simple. you have the entire knowledge of
humanity essentially at your fingertips
at your fingertips not just with the
internet but with AI because I guarantee
you if you ask AI how can I make $10,000
this month the AI will come up with at
least one solution that is somewhat
viable
>> and the only difference between the
version of you that has made the money
and the version of you that has not is
that the version of you that has made
the money actually tried it and this is
just such a different thing than it was
back in the day where if you didn't
start the [ __ ] carpentry business
that your entire village relied on then
you weren't making it out Like
genuinely, you can just type the right
buttons on your laptop and you will
become rich. And there's an infinite
wealth of advice waiting for you that
you don't even have to [ __ ] watch
anymore cuz you can just ask AI to
summarize the videos for you and it will
genuinely tell you the correct things to
do. a kid online could entirely in
chatbt.com
have found this video by searching what
are you know like the the the the recent
videos on how to get rich with AI
summarize the video figure out how to
how to perform the steps of the video
set up an automation to do every step
except sitting in front of cance 2.5 and
waiting for you know like like like the
the the the good the good videos to come
out and you could have done this all on
chatbt.com with [ __ ] like a week's
worth of time and I I just truly don't
understand how in any point in in in in
in human history it could have been more
more easy. The ways to get rich are like
uncountable. The ease of of of most of
these methods are uncountable. Um and
and the average laziness of your
competitors is just higher than it's
ever been before. If if you're just not
rich right now or you're not very close
to getting rich or you're not trying
something that has a very good chance of
of making you rich, then I genuinely
would say you're seems like you don't
want to get rich, buddy.
>> Yeah. And I'll just say uh as a
challenge to the viewers, if you can
make a viral video with me and Roy at
this podcast table uh right now can just
be any part of the conversation, just
use C dance 2.5 and it send you $1,000
if it gets what? 100,000 views. Million
views. Sure. Million views.
>> Million views. I'll send him $1,000. Uh
I want to ask, are you hiring a lot of
people at your startup right now?
because I'm curious like if AI is kind
of making founders think differently and
not wanting to hire people but just
figure out how to automate it before we
need to hire them. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. I I really think that the way we
operate the company right now is very
different from any company that I've
seen. Um and
the the way that it's it's most similar
to other companies right now but
different from you know established
companies is that we have a shockingly
small amount of engineers. There are two
full-time engineers that work at the
company and uh this is I would say the
average amount of engineers that I see
at most series A seedstage startups.
These startups with you know products
that you've heard of that you use have a
shockingly small amount of engineers
because it just doesn't take that much.
You can write the same quality of code
now with a completely novice engineer
honestly as you could have with with a
completely senior engineer just because
the coding models have gotten that good.
So I would say firstly we have a very
shockingly small number of engineers and
it it it is a team that I'm not super
interested in growing. Um second I would
say we have a very large product suite
and I would say this is something that
we do that I don't see other companies
doing. We operate with uh at this point
there's seven software products that
exist under the Cloy corporate entity
and one of them is the Cluey desktop
app. There's seven products that are
maintained by two engineers and almost
every single one of these products makes
over a million dollars a year. And it is
crazy that uh we are allowed to do this
because now really you're able to spin
up a product that would have otherwise
taken 3 months to 6 months to develop
with a team of 20 engineers. You can do
this in the free time of the afternoon
of an engineer today. And this is
something that I don't see other people
doing. I I think even even right like
right now there's so much value to be
captured in the people that don't
understand. you can oneshot these apps
are not willing to oneshot the apps. Uh
there there's competitors that aren't
willing to aren't willing to compete
with you because they're so single
focused on their own product that I I I
think people don't actually realize like
you could just spin up seven products
that can make you a lot of money if
marketed correctly. Uh we we could
probably do [ __ ] 20. The third way I
think we're different from other
companies is that uh we hire a an
astonishingly high number of creators.
We have at this point, you know, and
this role really did not exist five, ten
years ago, but we have creators on
retainer that we pay for the performance
of their videos. You know, you make ads
for us. If the ads do well, you get
paid. And at this point, we have, I want
to say, over a thousand people that we
hire in this sort of capacity that are
just making videos for us. And if the
videos do well as ads, then you get
paid. And we probably have the capacity
to hire 10,000 more. Um, if there's
10,000 good creators that make
profitable ads for you, then why would
you not you could hire [ __ ] hundred
You could hire a million creators to do
this as long as the ads keep working. H
>> I think this is something that I don't
see other companies doing. They have not
most people just are not willing to tap
into uh the power of creative quantity
which is something that I think we've
always been uh forward in
>> the average creator at your company are
they more interested in this AI video
content creation than making the videos
themselves? Like what are creators
saying about it or are you just finding
a different series of people to create
that AI type of content? This is
something relatively new. We're trying
the the a video stuff we've gotten into
over the past month or two and it's
largely been internal with like with
like people that we have in-house at the
company.
>> Um the thing is other companies are so
far behind in advertising and marketing
material. They haven't even tapped into
the idea that you can hire a 100
creators to make organic UGC videos
where they're just talking to the camera
and that'll make great ads for you. Like
most companies are not doing this, much
less trying to invest in a thousand
different AI Tik Tok accounts to see
which whi which of these can can
generate a viral tren a v a v viral
trend. Right now there is so much money
to be made and you know like so much low
hanging fruit for us from literally just
you know having creators make content
for us organically. Do you have a B2B
consulting side where you offer that as
a service to
>> I is a super niche opinion I have but I
think marketing is just one of those
things that doesn't really scale
ultimately
there are only so many eyeballs on the
internet you know there there there
really are only 7 billion people in the
world and and even within any sector
there's like I if if you want to be the
marketing studio if you want to be the
the the marketing guys that a toilet
paper brand can come to surely this
toilet paper company could not come to
you as long as as as well as all of
their competitors. Surely not every
single one of them could come to you and
expect proper returns, you know, like
like at the end of the day, marketing is
sort of a a zero- sum game where uh
there's the fixed share of people, fixed
share of eyeballs, and you have to be
sort of the the first to capture
attention, eyeballs, interesting like
compelling videos. You you got to be be
the first as opposed to all of your
competitors. And and and it's it's it's
not one of those things like for example
payroll. If you if I develop a more
efficient process for payroll, then
everybody can can enjoy, you know, the
extra five hours that they have to spend
on figuring out payroll. But for
marketing, it really is not like that.
Marketing is one of those zero sum
things where you have to be strictly
better than your competitors. And and
it's not that everybody can just, you
know, enjoy an increasingly larger pie
ultimately. It's not that if there if
ads become 10 times as good tomorrow,
the consumer is not going to spend 10
times as much. There's a a a fixed
budget for consumer spending, and the
only thing that changes is how it's
distributed. So, you know, I really
don't think that there's a generational
company to be built out of doing a like
B2B marketing consultancy. But
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But anyway, guys, back to the podcast.
The school year's just started. 20
million students are enrolled in
college. How many kids graduating
college this year will never find a job?
>> There's an exact number for this online,
but I wouldn't be surprised if this
number was anything around like even
40%. Uh like I really would not be
surprised if it was one in two, one in
three college graduates couldn't find a
job. Um I think increasingly there's
less jobs for people. I guess I mean
like never a lot of people talk about
the idea of uh like them not being able
to get a job out of college, but like do
you think some people will just never
have a job? Of course, some people that
that's a question I haven't thought of,
but the more I think about it right now,
more I realize like there's probably a
huge group of people like this. Some
[ __ ] I know in college are and
I I went I went to Columbia for for a
little while. So I
some of the smartest [ __ ] at
Ivy Leagues are the laziest, most
incompetent pieces of [ __ ] ever. And I
would never ever I wouldn't hire them to
[ __ ] shine my shoes. Like this
[ __ ] will stay in bed doom
scroll if it's shine my shoes at 8 at at
8 a.m. This guy's not pulling up till
[ __ ] 10 p.m. So, um I I have pretty
low faith in the college graduates of
today. And uh if I had to put a number
on the college graduate the amount the
percentage of college graduates who
would never find a job in their life, I
wouldn't be surprised if it was
something like 15%.
>> H how about 5 years from now? What do
you think that'll be? Five years ago we
didn't have chachbt and today chacht can
functionally do the work of almost all
blue collar labor. So if you had to
extrapolate five years from now then I
think the number of college students who
won't be able to find a job is that's
that that number is probably upwards of
90 upwards of 90% I would say.
>> So for the average kid today would you
advise them to drop out of high school.
>> That's the only reason to stay in high
school is to enjoy the the social life
of high school. I think even if it were
the case that you told me humanity is
going to be extinct in five years, the
economy will collapse and everybody is
going to be plugged into this matrix
type simulation that is going to feed us
a a a consciousness that that if they
feed us a reality that that that is not
the reality we experience but you know
like an optimized version even if you
told me that was going to be the reality
of the world in 5 years. I would still
tell high schoolers to stay in school
because ultimately I think humans at our
core we are primal creatures. Uh we are
driven by biological desires like sex,
socializing and and friends and and and
and truly being being lonely is one of
the worst feelings in the world. When I
graduated high school or after I
graduated high school, I took a year and
that entire year I spent my mom's house
in in my parents house and I did not
meet a single person in this entire
year. And this was just one of the most
brutal worst experiences of my life.
I've been poor. I've been I've been like
canceled online. I've been I' I've been
shhat on for so many things and and
there's just no period in my life that
was ever more painful than me sitting in
complete isolation. And I think the risk
with dropping out of high school, even
if you could make millions of dollars,
there are the majority of people won't.
The majority of people are going to drop
out of high school and live lives of
complete and total isolation. And I
think this is the worst fate that you
could ever uh doom a human to. I think
when when you're in high school, you
have the chance to be in a place where,
you know, like you're kind of forced to
socialize with other people. And if you
want to start a business in high school,
you can you can do it. You you you can
do it in your free time outside of high
school. But I really think loneliness is
one of those things that is just
the worst possible human experience.
>> Yeah, there are guys listening to this
podcast right now that literally haven't
had a meaningful conversation with
another person in weeks. their entire
social life is online.
Do you think AI is making men lonelier?
Certainly not. I think this is uh I
think co did a lot of damage to society
and it forced everyone inside forced
everyone not to talk with each other and
I think this is one of this is actually
one of the reasons why I think the
college environment is just not what it
used to be. What used to be college was
you know like a very bustling very
social place. you know, there's a
campus, there's the there's a commons,
and you would go out and you'd be able
to talk to people your age. But
nowadays, you ask about anybody's
college experience, uh, at least of the
people that I've met, you know, like
they have a core group of friends that
they met at orientation, maybe three or
four friends, and that's all the people
they really ever talked to during during
their entire college experience cuz
people are glued to their phones. And I
don't know if AI has made people more
glued to their phones. In fact, I would
say AI is probably one of the least
contributing factors to this. This is
really just social media plus COVID did
irre irreparable damage to to to
society, made people content and
normalize the fact that you're never
going to talk to anyone. You can just
spend your entire uh existence online.
And really, you know, humans are primal
creatures. We're not meant to sit on sit
on our phones all day. You're me you're
meant to be digging around with your
friends,
>> which is really a large reason why I
built the company that I have. A huge
primary motivating desire for me to have
a company was so that I could spend my
days [ __ ] around with my closest
friends who are in my age group doing
things together with them and building
things with them rather than working
under some [ __ ] 30-year-old Indian
manager who I'm never going to have a
single thing in common with. Like the
socializing is is I would say the single
most core part of human experience and
and the thing that took it away from us
is uh social media and and and and co. I
would say AI has honestly I would say AI
has zero to no factor in in in
contributing to to male loneliness. if
if if if there's or or or just just just
loneliness as a society. I think
everything can be traced back to or at
least the 8020 of all of this can be
traced back to co and social media. But
I do think it's it's probably that is
probably one of the biggest problems of
our generation.
>> That's an interesting take. I what to
ask in the ways that some people claim
that AI is leading to loneliness. Uh
there are guys right now paying $20 a
month for some type of AI girlfriend
app, talking to it every day, telling it
things that they've never told a real
person. Many of these apps print, they
make a lot of money, have millions of
users, but why do you think men are
turning to AI girlfriends in 2026?
>> I'll say these apps print. One of the
biggest ones is Character AI. you know,
in in in record time, they shattered
through $100 million of annual revenue
run rate. If you look at the actual, you
know, like the actual world and and $100
million of paid users sounds like a lot
of users. You look at the actual world,
you know, Facebook makes $54 billion a
year. It's it's it's it's completely
like like AI girlfriends and and AI
companions. It might seem like a big
thing in the media, but it really is
completely dwarfed by the the the
presence of social media. But to to to
answer your actual question, why are men
turning to AI girlfriends? I mean, what
is it? 50% of men from 18 to 30 haven't
had sex in the last year. Uh, and how
are you supposed to have sex when you
are, how are you supposed to talk to a
girl when all you know how to do is
[ __ ] look down at your phone and not
talk to anybody all day? The if you go a
modern college campus now looks so
different than it did 10 years ago, 10,
20 years ago. You look at videos of
colleges in high school from like
[ __ ] 19 19 like the 1900s, like
2000s, pe people are talking. People are
communicating with each other. You go to
college right now, you walk around,
people are glued to their phones.
They're not talking to each other. and
and the rate that they are talking to
each other is just infinitely smaller.
There's really no way to meet people um
outside of like dating apps now. I I I
believe now now it's like dating apps
are the most common common way to way
way people meet their partners right
now. Uh and you know there's a million
problems with dating apps that
but but the the most primary problem is
this is not how humans are meant to
interact with each other.
>> And uh
>> what problem were you thinking about? I
mean, of course, it's like, you know, if
all you can do is look at a picture of
someone, then all you're going to be
attracted to is their physical features.
And this is why in incels and like like
looks maxing and the black pill is so
huge is just like if I'm a girl, believe
me, if I was a girl, I would only be
swiping on [ __ ] 6'4, 200 lb [ __ ]
quarterbacks cuz like those would be the
guys sending me likes. So, you know,
like like the like what what is it 20%
of, you know, like like the there
there's there's there's some crazy
statistics like 10% of guys receive like
90% of the likes or something like the
brutal high cut offs. Uh, I think dating
apps are, you know, like this is just
not how reality was. The reality of the
world was that when you were back in the
village, you know, like and you were
some [ __ ] five foot six lumberjack,
you know, like like the prettiest girl
in the village would have just like
thought, you know, like [ __ ] it. I like
I like this guy is better than the other
[ __ ] four dopes in my high school
class. So, I'm I'm I'm I'm going to get
with this guy, you know? There's there's
like a relatively uh consistent
pair-wise bonding of of of of mates. You
know, like a girl and a guy would get
together because they were the one of
only 10 girls and guys in their village
at the time. And now it's just like, you
know, like social media has made has
extreified and exaggerated everything.
And now girls are walking around with
[ __ ] double fcuffs because they think
that's that's that's what the guys want.
And guys are walking around, you know,
like spending all their money's on on on
luxury cars in the LAR because that's
what they think girls want. And you
know, girls are getting flown out by
basketball players. Guys just think
every every single guy around them is
some 6'4 Chad and they're demotivated.
They don't want to talk to girls. In
almost every single way, social media
has made it harder and, you know, like
has made people less willing to go out
and talk to someone. If I was living in
the [ __ ] 1950s and I knew the only
people I had to compete with if I wanted
the popular girl was the [ __ ]
quarterback, then I'd feel pretty good.
If I knew I was competing with goddamn
Shaquille O'Neal, then you know, like
maybe maybe I'd throw in the towel.
Maybe I'd hit up character ad. Maybe I'd
start up an AI girlfriend, too.
>> Do you think an AI girlfriend is better
than no girlfriend?
>> That's an interesting question.
Honestly,
it is this is this is probably a very
unpopular opinion, but I'd say probably
yes. Only because I believe that AI is
here to stay, not going anywhere. And
the hope is that, you know, like like
the the reality, the present day is
bleak. These guys who don't have
girlfriends right now, it's not like
they're magically going to watch some
[ __ ] motivational speech tomorrow and
just go randomly find a find find a nice
girl and settle down with her. at this
point, you know, like like their lives
are going one direction and people just
don't have this this willingness to
change that much. So, realistically, a
lot of these people who are virgins and
don't have sex right now are just going
to continue to be virgins, not have sex
in the future, and you know, like
saying, "Ah, just don't don't get the AI
girlfriend. Just keep approaching
women." Like, this advice is just not
going to work on them when you've been
[ __ ] like trapped in your parents
house. You've been in need for the last
10 years, haven't [ __ ] kissed kissed
a girl your entire life. Like, you're
not going to listen to that. And
suddenly, you know, oh, I guess today's
the day I'm going to go up and talk to a
girl. Like, that's just not how the
world works. And obviously the the AI
girlfriends of today are bleak. But my
hope for the future is that you know one
day uh AI gets good enough that and and
hopefully it only gets good enough to
the point that it can coexist with
humans and maybe the AI girlfriend can
provide uh uh
a perfect level of companionship. May
maybe all the AI girlfriend does May may
maybe a much smarter better AI
girlfriend. My my hope is that that that
AI girlfriend tells the guy, "Here's
people like you that that that that want
to meet you. You know, like here's an
event in the area. You should you should
go meet them." And may maybe encourage
them to socialize. Or maybe it just
replaces the the human function of of of
of socializing entirely. But
>> in the complete present day, is it
better for some guy, some 30-year-old
who's never held a girl's hand to have
an AI girlfriend over a real life
physical girlfriend? I would say
honestly, even in that case, probably
yes. That guy is not going to get
better. and to restrict him of a joy uh
when you know he's not going to get
better.
I think that that that honestly is just
more cruel than you know letting him
have the the the small pleasure that he
might derive from the girlfriend.
>> Yeah, that's interesting. It's kind of
like would you rather have someone be in
like a relationship with an extremely
evil human or like no human at all? It's
like there there's an argument for
isolation being worse than like some
level of connection. But uh I wanted to
ask if you had 24 hours to use an
unrestricted version of Fable, no safety
filters, unlimited credits, what would
you do with it?
I'll be completely honest. I think the
safety team at Anthropic is doing a good
job. I I don't really hit the safety
limits as often as I hear some people
online do. In reality, like we're not
really developing biotools. I would say
try and develop a cure for cancer and I
would let it run indefinitely and I
would say do not stop until you do and I
would see what it comes up with. But in
reality in my day-to-day, I mean like
I'm I'm I'm I'm a software founder. I
code software. This is kind of what
Fable is built for. And it's not like
I'm I'm I'm coding malware. So, uh it's
I I really don't run into safety issues
like this at all. If I was a
particularly dangerous individual, then
I'm sure I'd have a lot more to say, but
you know, I'm not
>> What could you do if you were a
dangerous individual? because the US
government banned Fable when it
initially came out for I think it was 2
3 weeks and then they re-released it.
You talked about bioweapons earlier and
like developing bombs that kind of thing
but why like what's the difference in
this model that makes it dangerous?
>> I mean the the pure difference is the is
like the the really the only difference
is the intelligence and that that that
that sort of is the uh overwhelming
difference between every single model um
which is more capable than the other.
And right now it just, you know, for
some arbitrary reason, I think, and in
my opinion, arbitrary, the US government
decided that Fable was dangerous enough
that if hijacked, you could probably
just tell it like slash goal, uh, figure
out how it can do the most damage to
America, the United States of America,
and it would come up with, you know, 10
very solid plans to to, you know, like
like do nuclear bomb level threats on
America. Um, and I I have no doubt that
Fable is capable of doing that without
hallucinating because it's just more
competent than the models that came
before it. But I suspect that if you
just had complete safety off and you had
a version of you know chatpt 5.5 like I
I wouldn't tell you what the exact cut
off is for for for a model to be able to
to do that with with like um and and and
propose solutions with with with with
any degree of success but I mean fable
for sure could do it for sure unrestrict
fable/goal
eliminate the Chinese from the world
like you know Ja Chan China
that's interesting uh
do you AI companies benefit when there's
sentiment online saying AI is going to
kill us all.
>> For sure. There are AI companies that
benefit. Definitely not all of them.
But, you know, you have people marching
outside OpenAI's door saying, you know,
stop AI development right now, this
instant. And that's one less engineer
that's working on developing the model
that's going to kill every other
application layer company. So, for these
application layer companies, like they
love it. You know, they they they might
get a few eggs thrown at them in public,
but you know, like the grand scheme, who
cares? like it's uh one extra day of
revenue of of of waiting before the
models swallow up your swallow up your
product is like you know for a lot of
these companies millions of dollars. So
so all all the more power to them and
I'm I'm sure they love it. I'm sure the
the the Chinese companies building AI
tools are having the time of their lives
hearing about the protests happening
outside the open AI office. really the
only people that don't stand to benefit
from this mass public disinterest in AI.
Um or or the people that that that that
that are hurt by this the most are just
like the leading AI providers and and in
particular I would say open AI because
that's chatbt is really the thing that
people know.
>> Do you think they're hurt by it though
or like I would think that there might
be an argument for it helping like
imagine for example you said to me Jack
Clo is going to be the platform that
kills the world. It's like that would be
the one I'd probably invest in. You know
what I mean?
>> For sure. Yeah. Have you thought about
that argument that maybe that sentiment
itself is a scop?
>> Yeah, I mean there there's a lot of
speculation online that maybe Anthropic
had planted the the the whole government
banning of Fable and you know like like
just to pump up the valuation. Uh you
know like one day I'll I'll be high
enough high high up enough to to tell
you definitively or maybe I just won't
speak to you at all. But you know like
like may like maybe one day I'll I'll I
I'll know. But in all honesty I don't
know. And and I really think in in a lot
of this like a lot of this stuff going
on is I I think a lot of the obvious
stuff is definitely premeditated, but a
lot of this stuff, you know, like people
just have no control over and and people
don't don't really know what's going on.
It's just whatever, you know, whatever
DJT feels like doing today is the the
the the top trending story of the news
and the public sentiment of the day. And
so
>> Roy, you've built a hund00 million AI
company Valuda and are on the front
lines of ever advancing AI. Other
founders, CEOs, investors in your space,
particularly billionaires like
Zuckerberg, Altman, Teal are allegedly
building bunkers in secret. Why do you
think AI billionaires are building
bunkers?
I think, you know, th this is really
like the most likely doomsday scenario
for AI uh ending or causing human
extinction is that, you know, someone
figures out how to develop weapons of
mass destruction and that person is not,
you know, like a like a national
government who can be trusted with that
sort of thing. If if there is if there
is a national government who can be
trusted with that sort of thing and
they're just going to, you know, like
you're going to have nukes in the
backyard of some [ __ ] Iranian crazy
[ __ ] Afghani terrorist and you know,
it's GG GG world. So in in that case,
like of course and all it takes is for
one one persistent [ __ ] to to
jailbreak something like Fable and and
have the persistence to actually go out
and and and and the resources to develop
something like that. And in that case
really it is GG. Um are you building a
bunker?
>> No, not not not at the moment. I think
um yeah, it's just like if if I got to
worry about the the [ __ ] zombie
apocalypse when like like everyone's
walking around like goddamn radiation
pill, like I'd rather just die, bro.
It's a fair take. Uh,
you went from being a broke kid living
in your parents house, uh, made your
first dollar last year and now I've been
in rooms with A16Z partners, LP summits
in Vegas, billionaire group chats. Is
that right?
>> Sure.
>> What's one behavior that every
billionaire you've met has in common?
>> I really think a lot of these people,
especially nowadays, are are much more
normal than you would think. Um,
and I I really think there are so many
paths to Rome, in this case, Rome being
becoming a a billionaire personally,
that there just is no no playbook for
this sort of thing. You could become a
billionaire, you know, by like starting
your own
crypto thing and and c like uh pro
probably not actually starting your own
cryptocurrency, but but you you you
could have had a few lucky wins in the
stock market and and and just been some
sort of Warren Buffett type billionaire.
In that case, like you really wouldn't
have needed to do anything. You wouldn't
really have even needed to start a
company on your own or have have learned
that particular skill. You could have
just been a very smart and intelligent
investor. You could be a billionaire by
starting an AI AI research lab of your
own. In that case, you would need a
completely different set of skills. I
mean, of the people that I've met, I I
I'd say most most most of the
billionaires that I've met are are on
the on the younger side and they are
like almost all AI billionaires and I
would say for all of them, um, it it's
shocking how how how normal they are.
And it it makes sense too because these
AI company the valuations of these AI
companies have skyrocketed like we've
never ever seen in history. And these
billionaires are being minted within you
know like years of their companies
companies forming like within 5 years of
starting their company out of their dorm
room. You know it's like billionaires
are being minted out of thin air. And I
would say for these people, the
conversations I've had with them, they
genuinely just seem like your normal
college senior at, you know, like like
they probably a cut of intelligence
above them. But, you know, like they're
they're wearing the same t-shirt. It's
it's not like some [ __ ] secret $500
no brand t-shirt. It's genuinely some
uniquely t-shirt. They're they're
they're not shaving. They clearly woke
up. They got [ __ ] jewel in their
mouths. They're talking about hoes and
you know, like it's like it's just at
the end of the day some some 24y old
kid. Hm.
That's fascinating. And you don't notice
I guess that would be the claim that the
one behavior is just actually doing
[ __ ] Yeah. I mean, of course, you don't
you don't you don't get to be a
billionaire by sitting on your ass. But
I would say there's so much money
flowing
in this world right now that if you pick
the right space, you're a competent
individual, you pick you pick the right
field in AI, you pick the right job, you
pick the right company to build, uh you
could literally wake up, you know, in 3
months to a $400 million contract from
one of these research labs that just,
you know, king makes you and just just
just just billion billionaire makes you
out of nowhere and really all you did
was, you know, be clever about where you
shot at, what you did. And um it there's
just so much movement of money in the
world in AI right now that all you have
to do is get pretty lucky. And perhaps
this has been the case since you know
like like for for the entirety of the
world that all you ever had to do was
just pick the right field and get lucky.
But I feel like this is true now more so
than ever. And the timelines have been
so compressed. Just doesn't take seven
years of uh you know like grueling pain
to become a billionaire. You know like
if you're really lucky it might take
[ __ ] eight months. You were talking
earlier about this idea that we'd be
plugged into a simulation of sorts or
and a lot of people talk about this like
idea of the matrix and how neural link
links with AI uh this kind of thing. Do
you believe we're currently in a
simulation and do you think we'll soon
be in one if we're not already?
>> This is probably one of those crazy
opinions that I have. My my current
understanding of the world is that the
way that things have gone for me in my
life are so strange and so fortunate for
me to be in the position that I am that
I probably think I'm in some sort of
game like the game Roy from Rick and
Morty where I actually am the main
character of some show that some alien
is watching where he has just decided to
spawn into my life all these blessings.
It's shocking to me if I step back and
think about it. Why am I even how am I
possibly in America when all the odds
say I should be some [ __ ] rural
farmer in the in the rice villages of
China? How am I possibly, you know, like
how do I possibly have the intelligence
that I have? Uh considering that that
the the the the regular expectation is
that I'm some [ __ ] farmer in Kansas.
How do I possibly have the uh ability
to, you know, like build companies and
how is it even [ __ ] work? Like like
how's it possible that my competition is
this is is is this weak in the modern
era? How is it possible that I'm just
able to spawn in all these views on
social media? I feel like the way that
my events the the events in my life have
turned out have just convinced me that I
am built for greatness. And um I'm not
just built for greatness, but I'm built
to be like the human of all humans. And
you know, like this definitely sounds
like I have a god complex. And I'm I'm
going admit it. I do. This is this is an
understanding of a world that I've had
since I was probably in the third grade
that I probably am the only real
existing human or at the very least you
know you know like I I I am the main
character of some show that some anime
character is watching some alien is
watching and it is my duty to give them
the most entertaining show. Uh and if I
were to be a bum then it would just be
you know like what's the point? This is
all just a game anyways. So yeah, I do I
do believe I'm in a simulation.
>> I wrote this down for you and I cannot
believe I'm even asking this question
but I it's a fair question. Do you think
an AI god went back in time and chose
you to be the person to bring it back
into existence?
>> I don't think that's the case.
>> You think it's the case for anyone alive
today?
>> If there was an argument to be made for
anyone, it'd be the big bro Elon Musk.
But I mean, I don't really think that
the simulation that I am in right now
was generated by that of some AI god. I
I I just don't view it in that way. I
think if you were to view uh you know
like the end state of true recursive
super intelligence, the most bullcase of
AI as being a consciousness like
comparable to you know like the
Christian God. I just don't think
anybody would do that. Um I I I I I
don't think people consider things like
that. And for me the simulation that I
consider myself to be in is uh created
by an entity similar to that of like a
religious deity. Um,
I I feel like this is getting this is
getting nuanced and uh just just falling
into a a semantic thing, but I I I will
say no. I don't I don't think the sole
purpose of my existence is to further
the development of AI. For that reason
alone, I will say no.
>> Do you think AI is more woripped now
than the Christian God?
>> Woripped?
I don't know if people are worshiping
AI. I think there's people who uh
>> I guess if we define worship as actions
oriented around number of times thought
about throughout the day level of
importance associated with it
>> certainly and in in in in that respect I
I would say I worship AI more than more
than more than any sort of religious
deity. I I don't believe in any religion
at the moment and the amount of times I
think about AI is like almost every
waking hour of my day like that's all I
do at work is I just sit there and
prompt prompt models to code and design
for me. Um so
yes I would say well
are there more people like me than there
are religious devotees?
I would say the intensity of AI
worshippers by the definition that
you've given me is stronger than the
intensity of and the intensity and
quantity of you know the most fanatic
religious devotees. I don't think even
priests think about God as much as some
of these AI people think about AI. And I
don't even consider myself like really
one of those people like that are hugely
engrossed in AI. But you know I think
about this every waking hour of the day.
>> H that's fascinating. I mean if you
consider like the esquetologies of all
the religions and the number of people
trying to bring about those various
esquetologies versus the esquetology of
AI which is super intelligence recursive
super intelligence specifically like
there are there definitely seems to be
more energy going toward that thing than
like I don't know the four horsemen of
the apocalypse in the Bible
>> of course. Yeah.
>> So that's that's an interesting take. Uh
what do you think are the spiritual
effects of choosing to be poor?
I think I'm really not the guy to be
talking about spiritualism or religion
or, you know, like the the higher order
meaning of life. I think for me, I I
really structure my life around my
biological primal desires. And I think
this is something that everybody wants
to. When you're a kid, the most fun
you'll ever have is going outside and
playing [ __ ] make believe with your
boys and playing in the dirt and, you
know, like socializing. And when you're
a teenager, the only thing you'll ever
think about is, you know, like trying to
trying to crack the popular girl in your
school. And the most fun you'll ever
have is going on two minutes with your
boys and, you know, like like
socializing and and looking for sex. And
um
outside of that, maybe it's like some
sort of competition with your w with
your boys. I've said this in the last
podcast and I've said this in every
podcast I've ever been on to date. I
really think that the core essence of my
being and the core meaning behind my
existence is really just uh you know to
to do the things that primally we're
designed to do which is live in these
small tight-knit communities, socialize
uh almost every single hour of your day,
work towards competitive goals like hunt
hunting hunting hunting big giant
animals with with with your tribesmen.
The equivalent for that for me is
working on this difficult company with
my closest friends and you know like h
have having a girlfriend wife or you
know if that falls through you know like
a million baby mamas. But I really think
like I am not someone who is grounded in
the pursuit of spiritualism the pursuit
of some some religious ideal some some
some higher ideal like I I respect the
people that are but for me I think life
is very simple. We are biological
creatures. We our our entire brain
circuits are designed around core
biological uh desires. And I think we
should just like the best way to live
life, the most fulfilling way to live
life is to fulfill those desires in you
know like as as as close of a way as
possible to um that as as as close of a
way that we can in the modern day. In
reality, I think the most fulfilling
existence for me if I were to say like
my spiritual ideal would be to go back
in time in [ __ ] 2000 B.CE CE and live
in a tribe with my boys uh in some
[ __ ] African village and just dig
around and not have ever experienced
technology or even [ __ ] fire. Um I
think that is the most fulfilling
experience a human can ever live. And I
strive to like my my version of
spiritualism is uh trying to model my
life to as close as that of the [ __ ]
caveman who could only [ __ ] blabber
and grunt. I think chu ch ch ch ch ch ch
ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch
ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch
ch ch ch ch ch ch ch choosing to be poor
nowadays and considering my my ground
framework for you know like spiritual
what spiritualism means to me choosing
to be poor is the equivalent of the
caveman choosing not to hunt and I would
say you know that is uh if you're a
caveman and you're choosing not to hunt
like what happens is you get presumably
you got banished from the [ __ ] tribe
and and you you you got left to die so
cuz you're not doing your your core duty
if you're choosing to be poor in the
modern day if you're choosing not to
acquire resources for the betterment of
your of your tribe and your close
friends and family then you are like
this is one of the most core biological
principles of your life you're failing
to do that and I would say you know your
existence is uh
probably meaningless
brutal
did the blueprint for what clvicular did
with the black pill and like his whole
marketing thing change how you think
about marketing startups
>> I think clvicular was an example of a a
modern-day trend in the attention
economy that has gone as far that that
goes as far back as like Donald J. Trump
from 2016 and that is in reality the way
the social media algorithms work is that
the
most controversial content goes to the
top. That's just how it is. So when you
have Donald J. Trump, you know, and and
people really don't care about the
deeper meaning behind things. People
really don't care to fact check all of
your arguments and see who is the more
rational debater. DJT won in 2016
because, you know, like he was the more
outlandish person. He got on social
media and people thought, you know, that
that gave him the opportunity, the the
the spotlight to to show, you know, even
even like a fraction of his rationality.
And modern day people are so [ __ ] and
lazy and stupid that they'll never even
think to to to double check any of this
to to think about who might be the
better leader. You know, it's just like,
well, I saw this guy and some of what he
said resonated with me, so I'm going to
vote for him. And the same thing you you
see exactly the same thing happening
with like Nick Fuentes. reason why his
his podcast was at one point would have
been like the most viewed podcast in the
entire world is because he was willing
to, you know, like like do the things
that were controversial enough that put
him on the top of the social media
algorithms before anybody else. And
sure, it might be the case that there is
some better thoughtout right-wing
philosopher with the exact same ideals,
but but but but more is like like better
spoken, more uh has even better ideas,
you know, is better thought out. But the
reason Nick Fuentes gets the attention
that he does is because he's willing to
push the buttons that that that that
rises to the top of the social media
algorithm. I think the the same is even
true of myself. Like I was the only one
in probably all of tech at the time who
was willing to push the buttons that I
was out that that that that that I did
and it generated me the millions of
dollars that I'm making right now. Like
like this is something my my my whole
story uh the the origin of my entire
story is when I publicly used social
media to bait Columbia University into
kicking me out of the school. And this
is something that I probably think has
never been done in the history of
humanity. This has never been done. and
someone intentionally baits an Ivy
League school or any college for that
matter to kick them out for the sake of
marketing a company of theirs. Like this
has just never been done. I was the only
one in human history who's willing to
push that button and capitalism rewarded
me as such. And I think the same is
true. Donald J. Trump, Nick Fuentes,
Clvicular, Roy, I think these stories
are all the same. Andrew Tate, these
stories are all the same. The people who
are willing to push the button to get
them to the top of the social media
algorithm get to reap whatever rewards
uh you know like attention gives them.
And maybe the end reward is just
attention. And certainly uh all of us
have have gotten that in in in in in
generous doses.
>> I'm going to test this one with you. If
it's if it's not good, we'll just I
might skip it. But uh I have a special
segment for you. I'm going to give you a
situation that someone is in and I want
you to give me a sentence for what each
of them should do.
>> Okay.
>> To be successful in AI or just the
world.
>> To be successful in the world. Okay. By
by by my own metrics.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. a 45-year-old accountant who just
got replaced by AI.
>> who just got replaced by AI. I would say
you're
a a simple sentence,
reinvent your life from the ground up by
chasing
the women that you always wanted to
chase and completely do something that
upends your life. And when you're in
this moment of change, of internal
transformation, then go look online
desperately for ways to make money
online with AI. Build an AI app that is
based around your life experiences that
you have and try and market it with
organic marketing. That that that is a
lot of stuff. I I feel like a sentence
is not sufficient for what I would tell
this guy. In reality, what I would tell
this guy is you are in a period of life
where your past 23 years of experience
has has surmountized to literally
nothing. And at this point, what you
need is you need to instead of being
[ __ ] depressed, you need to find a
win. You need to find something that
makes you happy. Something that may make
makes you feel like you've accomplished
something. And in reality, if I asked
any single 45-year-old, I know that the
thing that they would say their guilty
pleasure, the thing that they've always
wanted to do but weren't able to do is
bang some 18-year-olds. So, go [ __ ]
try and do that. And and once you do
that, once you're in that period of
change, period of like, you know, like,
[ __ ] I just did something crazy that
I've always wanted to do. That will
genuinely give you, you know, like like
the motivation, the drive, the
confidence to be like, you know, maybe
this new life won't be so bad after all.
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise that
I got to be replaced by AI. And in that
state, that's when you'll be the most
motivated, the most driven, the most
focused, and most able to do the best
work of your life. So, go out there and
do the best work of your life. Well,
that's AI starting a plumbing
construction company. I wouldn't even
recommend AI to be the place that
anybody goes. I don't know his exact
life circumstances. If it turns out that
this guy is the [ __ ] goat at plumbing
and knows 14 people with with with
broken toilets, go be the [ __ ] best
plumber you can be. Just instill some
change and look for look for an early
win.
>> I love that. I I think we'll just skip
the other people. I think that advice
applies to all them. I want to give you
the chance to reframe that idea a little
differently, but
>> sure,
>> and you might have a different take on
this, but what do you think is the
harshest truth men learn in life way too
late?
>> Life really is that simple.
I think people spend all their life
chasing games that were designed by
other people, invented by other people,
when in reality, all you ever wanted to
do in life was exactly what you wanted
to do as a kid, which is go outside,
play with your friends, and run some two
mans with your voice. Got it.
Uh,
at the end of every podcast, I ask
people what the best piece of advice
they've ever received was. I'll change
it for you a bit,
Roy. How do you get so unbelievably
ahead in life that everyone wants to
have kids with you, everyone wants to be
you, and your name is the last name
uttered in all of human history?
>> Yeah,
I'll tell you how I hope to do this
because I haven't done this yet, but I
think you've accurately described the
life that I hope to achieve.
I think in the era that we're in, in the
society that we're in, it is clear that,
you know, capital is sort of the
equivalent to power, influence, and
fame. If you want to achieve anything,
you need the most amount of capital. So,
I will accumulate the most amount of
capital that I'll accumulate more
capital than anybody else. And I will do
that by figuring out the skills that I
have that are five, six, seven standard
deviations above the mean. Right now, I
believe that skill is in getting
attention on social media. uh and I
believe that this is a skill that no
other businessman and no no other
founder in the modern era who is
striving to make as much money as I am
also has. So I will build businesses
revolving around this skill that I am
uniquely good at. And I will
consistently try to build businesses in
the biggest opportunities that I think
are possible. I will not settle for a
business that will only generate me $10
million of profit in a year because I
don't think that's enough to be the most
capital accumulated man in the world.
And once I've reached a certain terminal
velocity of capital, I'm going to then
use that capital to pursue not just the
biggest markets for my unique
superpower, my my my unique abilities,
I'm going to pursue the biggest markets
in the world. Right now, I think anybody
can look at the look at the world and
realize that the biggest opportunities
in AI, but I don't have that terminal
velocity of capital yet. So from now on,
what I'm going to do, I'm going to build
these businesses around the power and
abilities that I've developed. These
businesses will then generate me enough
capital to reach terminal velocity at
which point I will then further use that
capital to invest in companies and build
companies that are in the biggest
markets in the world. Once I've done
that and reached the pinpoint of
capital, you know, like like the the the
world's richest man, the the the the
what whatever moniker is given for the
man was one the game of society, which
is, you know, capitalism,
then I think I will have done it. and
the measures that I have taken to get to
the top and the way that I've gotten to
the top surely will be enough of a story
for people to uh remember me in history.
The challenge itself is uh worthy of a
lifetime and will certainly take a
lifetime. And to get to that pinnacle, I
think
you will have needed to
have lived a life worth everyone talking
about. And if you were speaking to the
80-year-old version of yourself, maybe
the one that has accomplished all the
things that you just described,
what do you suspect
he would warn you about right now when
you're still chasing more?
In my pursuit of truth and life
optimization, I've certainly made many
mistakes in life. I've probably taken
I've done at this point three or four
surgical cosmetic surgeries to improve
the way that I look. I spent tens of
thousands of dollars on on clothes and
I've burned almost all the money that
I've had on trying to do things that
would improve my life. I've taken almost
every drug under the sun. Maybe not
every drug under the sun, but I've taken
a significant amount of drugs that have
almost certainly had permanent have
affected and permanent health damage to
me. I've done all this for the sake of
improving my life and you know reaching
the top. I am hyper competitive and I
will do what it takes even if it means
sacrificing 45 years of my life to do
it. I'm completely happy and content to
die at 30 years old. Uh knowing that I
have done the most that I could have in
my life than to die at 80 years old
happy and you know surrounded by a
family and kids. Uh I really think that
I will do whatever it takes to win. And
I think in this journey if I hit the age
of 80 which I don't even know if I will.
If I hit that age, almost certainly I
will have made a very very big mistake
in this uh pursuit of asymmetric upside
in this pursuit of things uh that other
people are unwilling to do, risks that
I'm uniquely willing to take because I'm
just more competitive and want to win
more than other people. There almost be
something that I done that result in
permanent damage that I will just regret
more than I will have wanted to win. And
I think I really don't know what that is
yet, but I'm certain the 80-year-old me
would know exactly what it is. And maybe
he's sitting there and his kidneys are
dying because he took one too many
steroids. Maybe he's sitting there and
his [ __ ] you know, you know, like
like may may red tide is not all that
the all all that it's cracked out to be
and this guy's [ __ ] sitting there and
his pee is pee is green. Whatever it is,
I'm sure he has he'll have something
good to say to me. And for now, I really
don't think though that the warning
means much. I'm at the most ambitious,
most competitive point of my life.
And I I really will do whatever it takes
to to to see the top of whatever ladder
I'm climbing right now.
>> Have you talked too much about your
steroid usage?
>> Uh I've I've I've talked pretty publicly
about, you know, like different drugs
that I've taken.
>> What's the most interesting drug you've
taken that you haven't talked about?
>> The most interesting drug that I taken?
>> I will say the the drug with the most
significant effects on me was definitely
Redat True Tide. Uh, it's a pretty
common drug though, but I've
experimented with I've experimented with
testosterone. I've experimented with
anavar, winstrol, kambut, clenbuterol.
I've tried I've tried all sorts of
different things. I've been on
completely vegan diets. I've been on
carnivore diets. I've been
>> Have you done inseam?
>> Inseam? No, I haven't.
>> Like the patch?
>> I I haven't. I haven't. I I don't smoke
because I think smoking is smoking is
gay. But but outside of that, I'm And
well, ultimately smoking does there's no
asymmetric upside to smoking. There's no
positive significantly positive outcome,
but you know, significantly positive
positive outcome will one one one cycle
of roids might just be, you know, you
[ __ ] have the have your complete
dream physique and and and the positive
health benefits of all the muscle
completely outweigh the negative
consequences of the steroids and you
would never know unless you took it. Um,
and and it's it's it's it's things like
this that I'm just willing to do that
other people are not willing to do. When
I got my second paycheck, I gave my
first paycheck to my mom, but when I got
my second paycheck, I spent the entire
thing on fake clothes from China. And to
this day, I I I just uh am very willing
to take financial, physical, any sort of
risk at all. Uh if it means getting
closer to the path to ascension. And
even now, I know that there's mistakes
that I've made. Uh I I've taken risks
that just didn't pan out. And I'm
certain that by the time I'm 80, I will
have made at least one big risk that
will result in something that really
seriously changes the trajectory of my
life. Even knowing that knowing that
this this like that that that this path
of constant coin flipping is going to
end in some sort of demise. I won't stop
because uh what if it all goes right?
>> Beautiful.
Well, everyone uh this has been your
guest Roy Lee.
This is the Jack Neil podcast. I
appreciate you coming on. Where can
people find you?
>> Uh on Instagram or Twitter, both I'm Roy
Lee.
>> Perfect. And what's your company
website?
>> Cluey.com. Awesome. See you guys. Thank
you.