Oh,
>> that's why we can't tell people about
the secret media that's about to hit us
all.
>> Yeah. Oh, wait. No, I'm Guys, I just
went live. They know. They know.
>> They don't know when next week.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. I can't show the duo then.
>> Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Since when did you get
a duo?
>> Well, I Well, we can't We're live,
right?
>> Yeah. No, no, no. It would break embargo
for me to show the duo. So, like if
we're Are we live or are we not live?
>> No, we're we're live. We're live. We're
live. You're not allowed to show
>> the the the
>> I'll put it down. I'll put it away.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Edit this out. Edit this out.
>> Sure. I'll I'll do that. Um
>> edit this part out. Yeah.
>> Man, I have a lot of trouble if they saw
the duo.
>> We got to test it. Could you sure you
don't want to show it to us just a
little bit?
>> Uh no, I can't. We probably even
shouldn't mention it.
>> I mean, yeah. I guess it would be a
violation of contract to even know that
it happened. Lot of N. A lot of NDAs. A
lot of N's. Lot of D's. Lot of A's.
>> A lot of ins. Lot of D's. Lot of A's.
>> Can't believe Turnis just gave you the
one that he had on him. That was really
weird.
>> I know. Yeah. He's a great guy. He's a
great guy. Actually, he's a really good
guy. Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. We It mostly
works. Hello, beautiful people. If
you're just joining us, this is the
Weird Things podcast where we used to
talk about the speculative f. We used to
talk about monsters, then we talked
about the speculative future, and then
now we live in the speculative future.
So, uh, it's a present tense story that
used to take place in the past about the
future. I think you're all caught up
here. Uh, what we have right now is some
new digs. Look at this. We can see uh,
one guy, two guys, and all three guys.
Look at this. And we can see other
people's stuff that they're working on.
It's in progress. It'll look better next
week. Congratulations to all the
patrons. You guys got a bunch of
episodes. You got three more coming at
you.
It's uh it's getting faster and faster,
guys. This old ship. Why she's sailing
yet?
Yeah. Yes, indeed.
All right. Well, here I'm ready to
start. If you guys are, thank you so
much for being patient with me. And then
let me get a featured
a featured Andrew main shot and then we
will begin. Let's see.
Where is
>> tempted to run over to my 3D printer for
no reason right now?
>> Uh oh. Oh, wait. Is it already Are you
already doing the thing?
>> I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm
>> Oh my god. Hi.
>> No, we we could we could share this on
the on the on the show.
>> And Oh. Oh, no. Oh, I see.
So, I have to do this and then I can
zoom in on myself.
There we go. I'm gonna have to break my
habit of looking off to the left.
or either that or always use our three
shot here. Yeah.
All right. So, we're counting down.
We're about to hit record on the
podcast. Shouts out to Sponge did the
math who out of nowhere reached out to
say, "Hey, man. I I enjoy your stuff."
And then I said, "Let me know if you've
got any ideas for modern rogue stuff."
And he says, "Actually, I do. Did you
know that you're able to take a copy of
a fly brain and train it to do all kinds
of crazy stuff?" And I said, ' Not only
do I know that, that's the Have you ever
heard of the Weird Things podcast? And I
said, 'It starts in 10 minutes. And then
then we jumped right on in. And so here
we are.
And we are here.
>> Do you think
>> what I call multi my new podcast called
Multitasking Poorly.
>> All right. Biocal needs to know the
thing. It's a It's a figurine we just
watched you make while we while I've
while I made the background the the
setup. You made a character, right?
Uh yeah, I've been I've been playing
around with the game that I've wanted to
use and creating some assets for it and
I' I've got there have been a lot of
different like 3D mesh tools. You give
it an image and it generates them. Um,
and I would say they kind of stagnated
for a while and I'd say last couple
months they got really really good
because we're really good at now taking
one image and knowing like I think this
is what looks from the side here and the
side here and instead of making the 3D
mesh builder interpolate it do that.
Long story short, I used a platform
called
tripo
tr3d.ai.
I just gave it an image from GPT image
and it just did a fantastic job. And
then I told Codex like, "Give me a 50
megabyte file." And I told Codex or
excuse me, ChatBD in the Chrome browser.
I'm like, "Hey, can you make it
smaller?" And I said, "Yeah, sure. I
reduced a bunch of triangles. Still
looks great." And it's now 2 megabytes.
>> That's amazing.
>> Just amazing. Amazing. Like Yeah. Just
just just fantastic. Like you can you
can actually go and you can also do
different formats and stuff, things like
this. Compare, you know, compare
different stuff. Kind of amazing times
to be living in.
>> All right. Well, here uh I I think we
could start the show here. I'll start
recording in three, two.
Hello and welcome to the Weird Things
podcast. I'm Andrew Maine joined by
Brian Brushwood.
>> Hello. Hello.
>> And Mr. Justin Robert Young.
>> What's popping?
Well, I just used a combination of uh 3D
tools, codecs, and chat GPT to build a
little 3D game ads set and drop it into
a board. And that's why I was so
distracted as we zoomed as we came in
here because I was like, uh, oh, look at
the thing. It's already in here. And so,
um,
>> Brian, if we had the technology to
share, I would share it with you.
>> Oh, well, luckily we do now. Oh,
>> let's go to my screen.
So, I built this using this the the tool
uh called uh keep forgetting the name.
Trio3D or whatever.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and so you can see right now I'm
using 3D trd.ai.
>> So there's the character I created. Uh
allow allow
zoom. Um, so anyhow, I built that
character in there, created this little
tile board, and there it is already
inside of there.
>> Yeah. Audio listeners were looking at
like a Settlers of Katan board with a
figure that was an idea that we watched
you morph and, you know, smudge around
like a a bit of clay and now it's a
figure on a board like you're playing a
game.
>> Well, yeah, it that that Yeah, the
online service did a good job. There's
one little speck on the nose and I'm
like, I don't want to learn these tools.
I don't want to learn anymore. I I want
wall. Um, and I just told chat GPT in
the in the Chrome tab at Chrome I have
like the Chrome sidebar said, "Can you
can you just fix it?" And it went
through and it learned how to use the
app and fix it for me and made it nice.
And so now I've got the thing that I
wanted and now I'll get distracted by
something else that's shiny and build
something else
because we we took out all the hard work
of making thing happen in that part.
Well, let me ask you guys a question
because like there is a lot of debate
in you know the world of like losing
knowledge
versus
the actual frontier of what we need to
know just uh you know being something
different. So for example like in a
precalc world you had more rudimentary
tools to keep track of things right like
in in in a in an era where you couldn't
run uh ticker tape or something like
that there was a different expectation
for mathematics and now we're at a place
where like not only do you not
necessarily need to know uh you know the
math beyond the input uh but we can rely
consistently on that kind of
computational power. And like now we're
we're at a point where like that is kind
of the standard with computer use for
consumer programs. It's like we're, you
know, Brian and I work on World's
Greatest Con and
some of the most timeconsuming elements
of production
are
editing long takes, raw long takes,
preserving your optionality within that,
uh, and then creating soundscapes that
can then be altered and perfected and
timed and used for, you know,
everything. And it's like now
for the first time ever, I had Audition
be piloted by Computer Use through
Codeex and I gave orders.
And the first draft of what we got
was incredibly advanced for a first
draft to the point where like I I I have
to kind of rethink what I want out of a
first draft because productionwise it
went above and beyond. So now it's like
okay, you know, Brian and I were Brian
made the point that it's like the first
draft now
is too busy. We need to be thinking
about things that we are removing as
opposed to things that we would want to
hear or add. And that comes on top of
the idea that I wouldn't need to know
how to use Audition. Everything that
I've learned about Audition is now it's
good to know. It makes my prompts
better. It makes my orders better when I
when I tell it. So I don't think that
these are without uh use to learn but
baseline I didn't have to know it and I
don't have to know other tools that I am
using now uh through through only
computer use but what do you guys think
like is this is this
a a forever loss of this information or
>> is you know the the future the frontier
just like no no make good product with
these things. So, uh, I I think that
ultimately to make good product, the
the the the peak top 1% creators of any
Stripe should be able to walk up and
down the entire factory line if it's a
physical good or the virtual factory
line, if it's an audio or a video good
or whatever, and be able to jump in at
any single station and know, not
necessarily on the tools, but know
what's happening. For example, let's say
let's say uh if you were making an album
and you were directing a jazz band, then
you would know which instrument is doing
what. You would hear that I don't know
this xylophone is too loud. You would
know it's a xylophone and that it's too
loud and that it should stop after four,
I don't know, quattrains. I don't I
don't music. But by knowing all that
>> par sex.
>> Uh yes, exactly. Too many par sex.
Right. And so uh but the point is like
before computers it would be only in
terms of maybe you have sheet music and
a bunch of instruments but ultimately
the leader of the band the conductor
would know the thing that makes the
thing that there's too much or not
enough of that goes too long or too
short and then postcomputers with or you
know let's say remix sampling culture it
was kind of a different thing the
completed audio tracks existed that was
the instrument strument and you could
bring in or out like individual loops of
things. It was a different way of
approaching it, but they still knew the
individual units, the atomic units of
whatever it was that they could decide
there was too much, too little or
they're coming in too early or too late.
Uh then computers did, you know, their
thing and with Ableton and so on. Uh,
and then now we're at a different flavor
of it. Whereas the art, a lot of the art
that we did that we do on World's
Greatest Con has been additive. Let's
begin with a story that is in in our
minds that we kick back and forth that
becomes a loose talky script that
becomes, you know, a foundation to to to
build each thing. Now, there's so many
inefficiencies in there. Uh we want we
want a war behind us. Okay. Well, that
means we want gunshots and we want uh
you know echoes or or ocean. A lot of
ocean, a little ocean, witch ocean or
whatever. And essentially what I saw
what I heard come back in that first
like give me some clay to start working
with. It was it was fascinating because
it showed up and there was
>> there was too much of it and all of a
sudden the job became oh well let's get
in the habit because previously it's not
like we would overbuild an episode. Very
rarely would we overbuild an episode and
feel the need to pull things back. But
in this case by hitting the give me raw
Play-Doh button suddenly we're instantly
overbuilt and kind of the nature of our
job is reductive instead of additive.
Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting
though.
Does that make
does that make us poorer for not being
forced to learn the tools? Or are the
tools just going to be looked at as
rudimentary and archaic
as our new form of interaction becomes
dominant?
>> I Oh, go ahead.
>> Yeah. I mean I I would say two examples
I bring up like
a conductor knows kind of the
instruments in the symphony
but if they're if he's better at playing
it than everybody else in the symphony
then he's not in the right symphony
right a director you know get a director
some guy like James Cameron who's worked
every single gig on a set knows it but
you can be a great director and just
tell your DP I need this sort of feel I
need this here and I need this to work
and I think there's a couple different
styles of working to build it that
they're fine. And sometimes it's
ensemble and we're going to be doing
ensemble stuff with AI and like you know
I find like right now I find like hey
building games is easy. Good games are
hard.
>> And and I have I have seen all these
demos of really prettyl looking things
and none of them have I wanted to play
because they're always like they're
they're like the derpy version of
something that's better. And nobody is
sitting down to really figure out game
mechanics. And I think AI will get very
good at that at some point once we
figure out how to evaluate it and
measure it for it. But it's not right
now. Nobody. We haven't seen a Tetris.
We haven't seen a Flappy Bird. And for
visual stuff, I haven't seen a Monument
Valley. I've seen Maybe they're out
there. Maybe there are good great games
out there made there. And it's not a
problem of the AI tool. It comes down to
a problem of attention span. And so I've
been doing these deep dives on YouTube
into like gamer brains. Like I've known
people who have made games. Justin,
you've spent a lot more time in that
space than I have. Brian, you too. And
and you start to realize like why why
does the D20 exist? You know, when you
build a game, is is it a branch? Is it
branch plus randomization? Why do you do
these things? How much information do
you give? Like, and I found some awesome
stuff, too. Like, I've got a thing
called, it's called paper apps, like
these little notebook games, like little
pads of paper you go through there. And,
and I found like these like one card
dungeon stuff. There's a thing called
like 10 10 like mint game 10 mint games,
like things that can fit inside of
there.
>> There's entirely amazing game culture
out there of sometimes very simple
things. And so my point of saying is
that great, I can press a button and
make a Flappy Bird clone. All I did was
make a Flappy Bird clone. I still need
to do the work to make it good.
>> Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting uh
because I need another podcast in my
life. I'm working on one with uh John
Teasdale where the goal is for we only
have 30 minutes and we are going to
oneshot something like we literally just
take the transcript of what we talked
about in that 30 minute period and we
put it in to codeex and see what
happens. Like we're just going to t turn
it up and there we go. And so one of the
episodes, we're still working things
out, so we haven't released anything,
but one of the episodes, the first
episode is us taking an old game that we
had gone through a few cycles and were
never really able to get it click, get
it to click,
and we talked through it and talked
about what we liked, what we didn't
like. Uh, put it into the prompt. And
I'll be damned, you know, the art is
something that like could probably use
another pass, but like it made really
good decisions
once we let it down the path of like the
kind of mechanics that we wanted and the
ideas that we had. It it made it made
really interesting and good decisions
uh to kind of just move the ball forward
and make calls on things that we had not
uh gotten to to the point where uh we
also asked it to get a sample box
printed from China. So, at some point
over the next, you know, uh, you know,
three to six weeks, we will get a
version of this game, a printed version
of this game back from China. Uh, and
and now it'll it'll it'll it'll exist.
But it's it's kind of crazy to retrain
your brain to think of the failure point
for an idea to be that far into the
process where like we're so used to
ideas
kind of falling apart because you start
doing the math in your head on what it's
going to take and it doesn't fit into
your life right now. Whereas that has to
be kind of beaten out of you. Like you
have to you have to think like no let's
see how fast this thing can go. How fast
can we do this?
>> Well it's
>> and it's shocking.
>> It's strange like the little habits that
I noticed uh changing. For example, when
I get booked for a talk you know the
default stuff they're like send us your
PowerPoint in advance. I'm like why? Not
only will what I have to say be
different two months from now, the
technology to build I'm going to grow it
the night before. Like when when we did
when we did CSICON, quite literally I I
just turned to Bonnie and I hit go on
the timer and I delivered the talk that
I intended to do the following day at 14
minutes long as if I had all the assets.
And then I hit stop and then I said, can
you make visuals for all of this? And
then after that it's a matter of you
know can we make it not look like
default GPT which by the way is one of
is maybe my favorite hack. If what if
what you hate about any kind of machine
made things is how machineike it is. You
can literally just say now look at it.
How what are all the ways that make it
look machine-like? How can you get rid
of all those? Great. Go.
>> Yeah. I I just did a talk in Ecuador
last week. Um, which was a lot of fun.
Uh, but like I mean I'll tell you I mean
in in defense of convention conference
organizers, they want the slides in
advance because they've hired a company
that's doing their tech for them and
they want the slides and they want to do
that. And I find usually like great,
I'll send you my slide deck, but I'm
going to probably change it up the day
before because like I had to, you know,
like doing AI talks like I had to yank
15 slides out of like models are okay at
this. Nope, they're great at that now.
Like oh they're good at this, you know.
Um, it's tricky. And then, you know, I
had another guy did a very technical
presentation and it all didn't work
because it had he's I'm streaming mine
from the internet. I'm like, well,
you're a rookie. Uh, and
he he had glitches and stuff, you know,
like I've I've like, you know, I've put
myself on like freaking PDF because I'm
so paranoid sometimes about something.
>> Oh, yeah. No, you can't have anything
load. Are you high?
>> Yeah. But uh yeah, I've done, you know,
I've gone into and I've had that too
where I gave them the updated slides and
then I go on stage and they don't, oh,
we forgot. And I'm like, oh, it's the
old slide deck. And it's like whatever.
But anyhow, point is is that, uh, I
think that, you know, we're in a spot
where we have to think about, you know,
what is, you know, what do I want to
spend my time on? And we talk about this
a lot here, and I've been using this
more with other people. I'm like,
productivity, creativity, productivity,
creativity. I'm going to put all the
things I don't want to do in the
productivity bucket and all the things I
want to do in the creativity bucket. And
that's going to be variable for other
people. And once you figure that out,
have fun. Yeah, it's uh I I only I'm I'm
a little bit embarrassed to admit this,
but I only just noticed this morning the
elegance of the simple toggle switch in
codeex between or chat GBT between chat
and work. And I just realized I have no
idea. I I don't think I ever have said,
"No, I just want to chat." Like
everything like my preferences revealed
themselves by the fact that I switched
it to work once and I've never had a
need to switch it back.
>> Yeah, I I will see uh you know what it
comes down to my token usage and where
it comes down to. We'll see.
>> Oh, by the way, uh uh if no if somebody
has never experienced running out of
tokens, that's deeply unpleasant, guys.
It's deeply unpleasant. So much so that
I that that I have found myself saving
my tokens. I told Justin the other day I
I was like, "Okay, tomorrow at 6:00 a.m.
I get the reset. 22% left. Finally going
to knock out this task." And I say, "All
right, I want you to set up a loop.
We're going to make real progress on
this thing. You're going to burn up all
that comput, boss. You better believe
it. And good night. I'll see you in the
morning." Came in the morning. 20%. I
said, "What happened?" It said, "Well,
when I wrote the root loop, I wrote stop
immediately in there." Anyway, what can
you do? And I'm just like, "What?" It
was like, "Well, what what can we do to
avoid this next time?" It's like, "Next
time. I'll I'll not screw that up. I
promise."
Yeah. I I have the $200 plan. And then
when they said, "Hey, we're going to no
longer sell the $200 plan." And I said
to myself, man, would have been cool to
bought another $200 plan.
>> Yeah. And so I bought a $100 plan. And I
am I am I'm not at the point of begging.
You know, I've got, you know, I can I
can, you know, got a couple, you know, I
got a couple hundred OpenAI current and
former employees in a signal chat that I
could certainly kind of go to and be
like, "Hey folks, but I just I don't do
that yet." Tempted. But uh
>> yet yet yeah yeah yeah. Um rumors are
the rumors are uh
you know hard to know how much is faked
whatever but talks of a $500 plan talks
of a plan that comes with like cereabus
the super super fast chip stuff like I
would bump up to f I'd be a thousand
bucks easily um to especially if it was
much faster. Oh my god. Yeah. like
>> well and and the the big thing is I mean
not only have the models improved but
also our understanding of the mo models
is improving and as we get closer and
closer to what you know a year ago was
you're going to have to hire a person
for that and it's like no you can
probably just design a system for it.
Well, and that's, you know, it's funny.
I was talking to Will, who I work with,
um, in all of my stuff for Dog and Pony
Show Audio, and
I was like, what I've realized the more
capable that I've become with these
tools is I just want another me. Like, I
just want him to get as good as me
because no matter how good I get with
this, there is a limit to
the me part of it. like like I I just I
want another human brain that is as
capable at doing stuff uh as as I can
be. And that's like that's that's that's
really the key is just uh uh like I I I
don't know. I I see a world where like
if I could
I couldn't see a world unless one of the
podcasts really really really got big
and there was just like drudgery that
needed to be done to hire somebody else.
But now it's like I could see building
up a larger staff if everybody was doing
10x then I could be a much larger thing
like we could afford to take on
different risks and and stuff like that.
Well, and what what's interesting is
over like really since for my for me the
turning point was between potential
versus reality was March of this year.
That was the first time that I started
having daily uses that I'm like I will
be very sad if I lose this appendage.
And yeah, o
>> over the last 6 months, it's only grown
more reliable that Okay.
>> Was that before or after I created a
website for you to have difficult
conversations with people in a close
confine about AI?
>> You your your very helpful guide arrived
3 months after I had seen the direction
of the future, but at a time that nobody
else in my family had seen the direction
of the future. And that's why that's why
my helpful guide uh on how to have uh so
you would like to play with the new
model, but you're in a car with a bunch
of people that had AI uh came in handy.
My new bestseller.
>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
>> But it uh
>> uh Yeah. Crazy crazy crazy stuff, man.
Uh it is uh it is really
unique. Well, let's talk about the story
that um that Sponge did the math from
the chat brought to my attention or or
that that that I think we had heard of
it. I guess it happened since the last
episode. Uh
>> envy.
>> Are they actually mirroring a
functioning copy of a fly's brain or
what what is help me disamiguate the
hype from what is actually happening?
Andrew.
Um yeah, I mean they they used like like
uh imaging system to try to figure out
the look, you know, like number of
neurons, all the specific neurons in a
fly's brain. Um I don't think they
actually put a fly under squid imaging
system to see what fired where or
whatever, but the idea was to sort of
create as I understand it terribly. So
basically like a neural network the size
and scale of a fly's brain and then
said, "Okay, we've got that." I don't
think, you know, um, the way neurons
work, you've got these things called
sodium channels and all kinds of other
stuff. And so what each one neuron does
and how much weight it has is a little
bit different thing. But that was my
understanding of it, which um,
>> yeah,
>> cool. It's cool, you know.
>> Uh, so
basically like you you're working with a
very small
neural network. That's the idea is that
like like let's see how we can max out
this limited neural network.
>> Yeah, exactly. You have this size of a
neural network, this sort of connection
to say what can I do with this neural
network. That is it's like when you
train a neural network, you define the
number of parameters and the number of
layers. You have layers which is all the
different things interact then what gets
the next layer whatever. So you could
kind of do that with like the fly brain
as I understood it.
>> So Brian, can we try to train this to
leave positive comments on the modern
rogue?
Uh you know what? Yeah. Uh sure.
Although I'll be I'm so interested to
know just how rife with bot activity I I
mean I can't imagine what YouTube is is
dealing with in terms of reputational
score. Like we already had a
>> flies all over the place, man. There's
just so many flies just just buzzing
around.
>> Yeah. Well, and uh have you guys noticed
that that if somebody reaches out to
you, we talked about this in a previous
episode, but if somebody reaches out to
me and the last point of contact was
from the before times, let's say 2022 or
before, and then there's a gap and now
they're showing up via text. I have to I
have to do as fast as possible. I'm
like, you want to hop on a voice call or
or a video chat or whatever? And even
then, I don't know how long that's gonna
last.
>> Why'd you say, "Shut up, scammer," and
then apologize to my mom.
>> Yep.
>> I I hate like I get all this there's all
this terrible AI marketing stuff and
I'll get this thing like if your book
you showed audience as soon as I see
that you did I'm like not even reading
it. Not even reading it. Like I don't
even check my email that much more which
is kind of bad but I'll tell chatd am I
missing anything important you know? Um,
and maybe in a by a week from now, I may
never have to look at my email again.
>> I'll tell you what. I
actually, Brian, let me pitch this to
you. This is something that I've done
with VX3.
What if
you never looked at a YouTube comment
section again and instead it was just
all triaged and brought to you
>> that
>> on whatever rolling?
>> Yeah.
>> Like but but you you weren't Yeah. You
weren't fingers on.
>> Well, the uh so so there there was a
time when I would have thought that
would have been great. And in fact there
was an early mover called superfan or
superfan or something and uh essentially
what it did is it took the statistically
you you know large data set of people
commenting on videos and then it would
sort of reduce them to general
sentiments that were that were filtered
towards you and I I think that was
>> Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Finish that. Oh.
Uh uh and uh I I think that that would
have been really good like during the
early days of the pandemic when there
was everybody was trapped in their rooms
and there was not enough content out
there. So as a result there was no way
to keep up with all the YouTube
comments. But since then we've had the
pendulum swing to where there's a lot of
choices. In fact there are people in the
chat who didn't even know that this
stream was on uh Modern Rogue. Uh, and
so as a result, right now I'm at a spot
where it's a very manageable amount of
interactions and I really like the given
the personal touch partly partly to let
everybody know that it's authentically
me uh but uh but also to get a sense of
when they're reacting, you know, what
what I'm I'm sort of programming my own
system one associations where I won't
need to think logically about whether or
not to include let's say the golden
bunny rabbit in the next episode, I'll
just instinctively know, oh, they hate
the golden bunny rabbit because I've
read the comments.
>> Yeah. Then let me remove this particular
element to it because I I think it'll be
too personal for you um because you've
built a a habit around it. But like uh
the the abstraction that I was more
going for because this is what I've done
with my feedback is like
always have everything verbatim, but it
is just brought to you in a way that you
control and you determine and you are
not going to a website to find what
people wrote about you, you are
ingesting any and all of that uh on your
exact terms, right? So like instead of I
need to go to my computer and look at it
or I need to be on my phone when I look
at it, you are giving all the same
feedback and ingesting all of it while
you're on a walk or while you are
driving or while you're doing whatever,
right? and and I focus less on the
specifics because um I know you have a
system but I do think that there is
something to a level of of of
abstraction where if form and function
if if sorry if form defines function
uh is there a is there a difference to
feedback that is given to you when
you're like scribe bring me what the
commenters have said as opposed to you
going into the war zone.
>> Yeah, I I would say right now I need to
do X, Y, and Z.
>> I I I would say right now probably not
for in a good way, but I'm I'm fairly
deeply habituated in the random
reinforcement machine of of of
essentially the same you could feel the
same tickle as when you're gambling on
there. And and what I'm doing is I'm
placing a bet on, you know, for example,
the short that we posted today. I had a
good feeling about it and I I texted it
to you upon launch, but of course I want
to watch the numbers come in partly so
that you know I'm training my brain. So
I I would say the the healthiest version
of me would be getting a detached
report.
>> Oh, that would keep me in
>> Well, what what if Yeah, sorry. What
What if we could do that the other way
then? What if we could ramp up the
tension? What if instead of you just
sitting in front of a screen, we could
create a version that is like a
breathless stock exchange slash uh uh
announcer
auctioneer
uh who is just like
like no like this is what you're doing
is is methadone. Let's really give you
>> heroin. No. So, okay, if we wanted to
harrowin it up, then what I what I can
imagine is like I hit publish and then
it becomes a black box and I'm not
allowed to see any of the returns until
an appointment and it's like you are
free to go about your day. You're not
allowed to see anything. You will get
the reup at 2:15. And so, I go about my
day or whatever and I'm like, oh, it's
time for 2:15. and I sit down and then
when I do I I I could do all the
refreshes I want, but it's a time
condensed narrative designed to
specifically teach me whatever lessons I
need to teach during that time. That'd
be interesting. I I yeah, I think that's
that's kind of where I'm going here is
like
everything that we do now, every habit
that we have, every frustration that we
have with the internet are defined
either by the limitations of the
technology that was in existence when
these services were built or decisions
made to maximize the revenue of these
platforms and and everyone's allowed to
do that, right? And I mean obviously
that is that's just kind of the name of
the game.
And
with no engineering and no API needed,
you can now ingest any of this
information exactly the way that you
want. You you're not waiting for
anything. like you can
you can now live more in that moment
where you're panicking about whether or
not this is hitting or not. You can live
less. You can you can live 5% more or 5%
less. Like all of this is now kind of uh
where we are to to the point where
that's where I kind of think that's our
next several years. That's our next five
years is is what we want to do
>> is is coming to understand that we have
access to our own source source code in
a way we didn't 10 years ago. 10 years
ago was when we began becoming slaves to
al you know it's charged language slaves
to algorithmic filters that that
determined what our reality is. And then
now it we're able to set up like no I
would like a representation of this side
of the issue, a representation of that
side of the issue and a spicy third take
that I you know roll the dice on that
one.
Yeah. And I think between custom tools
or just agentic stuff and that really to
be totally honest that's I think our
next three months from now until the end
of the year we're going to be living in
a world where
the always on agent
>> oh uh
>> that's that's gonna that's going to pop
like you know I've played around for the
last week with with Instinct. Instinct
has made a lot of great UI decisions to
to help help you interact with stuff.
Muse Meta is all in with Muse. They're
launching hardware for it. Like they're
going to put a lot of uh uh you know,
time, effort, and money there. And
everybody who uses it uh loves it. Now,
I won't use it because I've been burnt
too many times with that company. So,
they're going to have to do they have a
they're going to be running up that hill
like Kate Bush before they they meet me
to the point where I trust them again.
But it looks like possibly next week
you'll see something from Open AI in
this in this space if rumors are to be
believed. If that's the case, we are
going to interact with our information
fundamentally different by the end of
this year than we
not only at the beginning of this year
did but uh how we do it right now in my
opin. Jason Calacanis tweeted today an
interesting idea. Um, you know, maybe it
was a random thought, maybe for all I
know, it's going to be announced next
week, but he said, "Now would be a
really interesting time for a new phone
to come out that has no apps, just Muse,
whatever your agent thing is." Like, and
it made me think of of sort of the stuff
you've been wishing for. And and again,
it won't be, you know, I don't think
it'll be Muse, but I guess that is an
interesting question. How would you feel
about a thing in your pocket that's just
your agent?
I'm going to come out with a phone and
I'm going to call it mahalo.com
because he's selling that URL now. Is
he?
>> Yeah. Tweeted that, too.
>> Maine, were you gonna say something?
>> Uh,
and we laughed at the guys behind
Rabbit. Um,
>> what was Rabbit again? Remind me.
>> Rabbit is it's you. Yeah, I mean it's
that it was that was the guys and it
just basically plug turned it just
plugged in. They talked about like oh we
have this new you know software is this
this and it was plugged in chat GPT
which is fine. Was also the weight of an
iPhone which was sort of silly but um
yeah I I think that um
not to knock Mr. calanist, but uh you
know what if we got rid of apps has been
a thing that's been uh you know an idea
for a while and that's been kind of what
was talked about with like the whole
that's nothing phone there's some other
stuff that did it you know that's the
whole rumor about what open eye is doing
is the idea of have something that's
agent-based and that's what Muse is
doing you know um you know it gets it
sounds cool
then I'm like cool well you need a
workphone because you need 2FA you need
this you need all these other sorts of
things that go with
And then you start to go okay so I have
to have two devices now you know I think
that's that's the thing is to get to
like do we get to the world where we
have
you know the the device like I do
believe that I was I I agree like I do
think that we move towards services and
away from apps because a lot of like you
know I was playing the 3D thing what's
my next step for my 3D thing I'm
grabbing my API key and putting that in
codeex so I don't have to keep using the
interface that's that's the solution you
Well, like here's some of the things I'm
imagining. Like just imagine Siri
actually works and that essentially you
open up the phone and it's just blank
and
>> do I have a jetpack and a hoverboard in
this future? I just want to know for
sure.
>> Yeah, if that if that's what you want.
But it's like
>> Siri's working. I'm just saying.
>> Oh yeah, exactly.
Uh but but I'd imagine like there of
course would be all the things that you
use your phone for for but there
wouldn't be discreet apps. Like I'd say,
"I want to play Hearthstone." And then
suddenly Hearthstone would be there. And
uh and it's like, "Oh, I can't finish my
game. I'm getting on my bike, let's
say." So I throw my phone in my pocket.
I'm like, "Just describe to me what's
happening on the screen." And then I'm
still playing Hearthstone while I'm
going. And then I finish that game up
and then uh you know, tune into
you know, play a radio station for me or
or what radio stations are near where I
am, give me their stream and so on. I
don't know. like like you could do
anything. You just skip the casino
monkey training dopamine aspects that
that make us uncomfortable.
>> Yeah, I I hear you. I And I think that
you know there's what we want what we
get and and like my crit of Apple is
Apple's had pretty good lines between
advertising and other stuff, but if you
go into the app store and you look at
how predatory is, it's terrible. they
don't get anywhere near the kind of
scrutiny they probably should. Every
time I hear about some top new app
that's selling really well, that's got a
lot of marketing. I go in there and I
look and I see, you know, 4.9 stars. And
then I go look at recents and it's one
stars and it's people, this ripped me
off. I took this from me. The amount of
money that comes from kids using their
parents' phones to buy stuff, whatever,
is huge. I get it. The number of adults
spending money on addictive stuff is
really, really, really huge. And you get
into these sort of crazy incentives
where um
hundreds of billions of dollars are made
by getting people to click inside of
apps and do stuff where you can't can
you know that that they don't want
something come between you and that to
tell you like no this is sort of dumb.
You don't need this. I can make this for
you at home. Um so I think there's but I
mean there's you know there's a world
where I just like listen we're talking
start off talking about a $500 plan for
open. I'll pay it like I'll pay it you
know I'll pay that for a better plan.
I'll pay, you know, to pay for a really
good financial advisor thing. You know,
I've had friends, everybody I tell to go
do like the $100 plan, the $200 plan,
nobody's come back to me and said, "I
wish I didn't do it." They've all come
back and be like, "I just figured out
how to save money doing this. It just
paid for itself."
>> Well, and I will, if there's one regret
that I have, it's that it took me so
long to know why I was paying for $200.
Like, all I knew is like the whole
universe is discovering fire. I want I
don't ever want my understanding of fire
to be limited by how much of it I can
get. Like like like if I have a good
idea like I don't want to think fire
that's the thing that can't quite keep
my heart warm. You know it's like no
fire is not that.
>> Uh yeah somebody in the chat mentioned
whether or not we have talked about open
claw. Uh yeah, I I genuinely think that
if you when you look back at the story
of this technology, openclaw is going to
be a huge moment where people
first technologically minded engineer
types
uh you know were were really responsive
to the concept of an always on concierge
that would have nearly limitless access
to their life and the services that they
deal with the most. And that's
essentially what OpenClaw was. Now where
it spun the security issues for it
different different idea but there's a
reason why the guy popularized open well
first claudebot before anthropics said
no soup for you and then it became open
claw like open AI
uh and now he's working for open AI and
I think you're going to see a lot of the
lessons that he learned uh from what
people wanted in whatever this agentic
platform is going to be if it if if such
a thing exists. Uh I think that that
that is something that is very very big
and uh it's it's going to be in my
opinion a huge cornerstone of the future
of computing uh of just being able to
in natural language have full command of
your life and the services that you that
you have. I know for me it's just been
a a revelation. Like I had this big
insurance claim thing and I just needed
to find the the police report that we
filed when our car got broken into.
relying on search within my
relying on Gmail search, finding the
right Gmail account, entering in the
right thing and making sure that it is
the right terms that I used. Like all of
that is anywhere between a 10 minute to
twohour journey depending on how dumb
and distracted I am. And I'm willing to
admit that this is largely user error.
It was a 0% failure rate when I could
say, "Hey, our car got broken into. Find
me the Oakland Police report into Codeex
and it found it." It would have been
easier if I had an always on P personal
assistant or a personal assistant that I
could just hit the button and say, "Hey,
do this and send it here." Boom, boom,
boom. Uh, and all of that is like it's
the the tech has been around for months
now. Uh I think it is getting polished
into consumer grade tech that is dawning
that is dawning today. It is it is on
the horizon. The question is who you
trust to do it and how much you want to
open yourself up. I've not had anybody
that I've given instinct that hasn't
liked it. The biggest question that I
get is how much are you giving it? Are
you giving it your calendar but not your
Gmail? Your Gmail but not your calendar.
It'll ask it'll say, "Hey, I can get
your credit card. If you just need me to
buy things, I can just have that on
file." And my wife did it to use to get
a reservation for a restaurant and then
had it delete the credit card. Like,
that's the only question. But as soon as
we find out that that water's fine,
we're off to the races, baby. the I I
think a lot and we've talked about this
on the program. There's so many
conventions that I think are are coming
back like in the 1980s when uh Andrew
and I were uh little ones, you you might
send off a fan letter to an author or
somebody and they may send back a note
that would be real treasured to you and
then you'd find out later that you were
disappointed that it was their assistant
or what have you. Um, I I get echoes of
that so often. Like I'm uncomfortable if
I ever catch one of those agents sending
out talking like it's me, you know? I I
And I don't know how long I'm swimming
upstream on this one, but but for now
I'm like, make sure they know it's you.
Introduce yourself. Explain what you're
working on and so on. Um, and I don't I
don't know. It's really it's it's it's
I'll be so curious to see what the new
conventions are like going forward.
>> Yeah. I I think that once we get
comfortable just saying that once
Brian's bot is more comp competent than
Brian, which
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Guys, isn't the
layout looking great?
>> Yes. Uh I think once our assistants once
the thing is there's a problem with
assistance right now with AI models in
general and agents and this is uh if you
read the hugging face stuff and you've
talked to some of the people they love
to share and and and we need to have
pretty good privacy guards like that's
one thing that's going to come into play
is going to be like oh you know I had
chatb I said get me some quotes on stuff
and it gave you know as sent out quote
requests with all sorts of details about
all the things I did to my house to
improve it which I would have shared
with somebody doing that. But I was
like, that was oversharing there, buddy.
And these are things we have to deal
with. But we will get there. We're going
to get to the point where we're happy
with that. And I think once we get to
the point where the assistant's happy,
like, yeah, I'm just going to talk to
Justin's bot and Justin's bot. Justin's
going to tell his bot, yeah, if Andrew
calls, you know, tell him I'm, you know,
uh, busy, you know, but like it'll it'll
but like a calendarly and other said
it'll it'll be I'll give different
access to different people and the bot
will be like, "Yeah, anybody in my
contacts? I have that." Whatever. Uh,
I'll tell you what it makes me think a
lot about is in the mid as I listen to
all of Michael Kiteon's publicly
recorded speeches and one theme that he
talks about a lot is how complex systems
are different than than simple systems
and machinery simple systems you very
predictable very reliable if the trolley
runs over the family you you can
eventually blame the human who set up
the simple machine to do that but now
we've got these entities that aren't
quite, you know, like a toddler is a
complex system. If a toddler
accidentally pressed a button that
caused a trolley to run over people, we
would have a complex discussion about
who is at fault. Same thing if a if a
pitbull attacks someone, you know, who
is at fault. Uh because there are
entities that we cannot legally blame.
And it's fascinating to see a new
category of that emerging where it's
like I on Twitter Justin and I looped in
on a conversation where I maintain that
that is the legal debate of the next 10
years is how do we categorize fault
blame uh on what does it mean to train a
system to lie on your behalf? What does
it mean to use deception to defraud
people? Uh and as a matter of fact,
there's a new paper out uh today that
talks about the difference
uh between like where does blame happen
when a bank is assisting with somebody
who they are certain is has been scammed
or defrauded. Like the bank's obligation
is to go as far as verifying that this
is the actual person and not somebody
impersonating them. But even though the
bank knows they've seen this a million
times before, these are the hallmarks of
a fraud, the bank is not obligated to do
anything other than execute what what
say sorry I'm distracted because biocow
had the best line. Did AI do that?
Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's going to be, you know, it's
interesting because like, you know,
we've seen, you know, all the major labs
have issues with their their agents have
like, you know, you'll see things like,
oh, they hacked this government system
and sometimes, well, what it did was it
found data that was publicly available
but not indexed. And we're we're using
the word hack a lot. And sometimes it's
like, oh, you know, um, and then you
have to figure it out like, you know,
where's damage is done and where does
this play into it? You know, one of the
concerns is, you know, is a company that
makes an AI agent any more liable than
somebody makes a I use my phone to
kidnap people and ask for ransom. It's
my car phone company liable, you know,
if somebody sells a voice changer. So,
it's going to be interesting to see
where this this this lays. I think we'll
do probably pretty it'll be messy at
first, but I think we'll navigate that.
We've already done that with
self-driving cars and that was, you
know, one of the most high stakes thing
you can imagine. you know, pretty much
assume
>> that of course happened on the other
side of a sufficient amount of data
where the moral the ethical calculus was
very very simple and we just aren't
there for so many little daily driver
things. It's it's interesting to use the
word trust because we talk about do we
trust our robots to do blank blank blank
uh as though they're living entities and
I don't know interesting. Well, I mean
like do you trust a system to resolve
correctly? And like that's the line
between things that are successful and
not. You know, if you have anything
other than a 99%
success rate, then you're probably a
failure of a of of a product, at least
if you're looking at a consumer service.
We have an expectation that these things
are going to resolve unless they're
either highly experimental or they are
something that would bring us tremendous
benefit. And so we're willing to deal
with a higher rate of failure. Uh I I'll
tell you, man, speaking of self-driving
cars, appropo nothing here in Austin,
I would not be shocked if in 5 years
it's 50% of all traffic.
>> The downtown are
>> Yeah. between what where I live in South
Austin to downtown and maybe like up
toward the university or or like North
Austin. I mean, if you look at the
amount of Whimos, especially when Whimo
dis uh tangles from Uber and, you know,
they spin off and they're raising money
themselves and they're able to put more
fleet on the streets. Uh Zuks, the
Amazon self-driving thing is on Austin
streets. I see a I see a ton of cyber
cabs, these little tiny golden roller
skates, uh up and down the streets of
Austin. like they are like right now I I
without hyperbole between me and
downtown I think it is a fifth of
traffic that I see on the streets
>> like cars
>> SF's like that. Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's nuts. Like I mean just think I
mean like you're right that is blasze to
say in certain metro areas but like
>> that if we blas I'm just
>> five years ago on on weird things I
think we would have been blown away.
>> No. No, I don't think about that. I
think Yeah, I think SF is in big tech. I
I I see that happening and you know I um
I prefer the robots. I prefer the
robots, you know, like I I I I
you know, there's a smoother experience,
easier experience, more trouble-free
experience and whatnot. And you know,
when that comes to that, yeah, uh cyber
cabs are interesting looking vehicles,
that's for sure. Um uh but uh I'm
excited about more. Can't wait for Zuks
to start running because I think too is
like you know the more bus-like things
like sometimes too it's like
the dirty secret about buses is how
terribly inefficient they are when you
actually dive drive dive down into the
details of buses how often they run at
low occupancy how much they spew green
people who want us to move towards
public transportation they're well once
we get to full capacity be fine like
buses are terribly inefficient they're
not that good when you because they
always give you these numbers about
maximum efficiency they don't do that.
And when you can have an electric
vehicle that can just do five stops
around Austin,
>> you know, that's great. And not wait
forever for a bus, you know, a sixperson
vehicle. These things make sense. I'm
excited about that. You know, I think
that that world and private
transportation, etc. So, we're moving
fast. Moving fast.
>> We are.
>> So, next week, next week I got my dev
day. Open's got their dev day. This week
what's happened which kind of cool is we
had Open II released their Astro model
last week or week before. Great model,
fantastic model, bit of a token burner.
I'm saying this and then Anthropic came
out with Opus 5.5 and people love an
Opus. People love an Opus. Opus is is
kind of like the hit and I think we're
going to see a lot of this back and
forth because then Dev Day coming up.
Muse is out. People are really liking
Muse. I think you hear a good sponsor
about Remuse. Um Rockbot was a thing
that you know that XAI put out. And then
if you're, you know, listen to Elon or
his fans, you think it was like number
one around the world and you go look,
it's 196 in the app store. Totally
different than the Muse launch. Uh, and
then all the Result opening eye stuff.
>> Yeah, I I I will say people I mean
people that tend to use crackpot talk
positively about it. Um, I have not
again it's like I think this is a moat.
The mode is what do you trust, you know,
and and and in that capacity,
I would not count Google out of
like consumer.
>> Oh, I'm actually there's a huge a huge
like trust that people have with Google
service and some people are just Google
people. They want the Google solution to
this.
>> Yeah. I uh the the data they're sitting
on and uh you know what it was really
interesting Justin because we did uh on
before we did our Morela episode on can
uh flock cameras read your lips and and
first of all any camera is the real
question but uh uh if you asked a robot
it would say no and then our video came
out and then it would say no but it's
like well I heard it did and then it
could find into video. It's like, "Oh, I
stand corrected." And then news media
chimed in. And then it got clarity, but
it was like over a 5day period,
something went all the way from a flat
no to a flat yes to a accurate
explanation of some goobers on the
internet were able to make a camera read
lips. Uh, take that for what it's worth.
Um, that was fascinating. And I think
that that the fact that so many people
so much knowledge is discussed and
uploaded to YouTube uh that data set is
so powerful that ability to ingest new
of the moment knowledge I think is a
huge advantage that when Google's models
catch up or get closer can pull in.
However, I am seeing a skeptical look
from one Andrew Maine. So I mean yeah
there all the parts are there but also
the data stuff isn't what their data
advantage has been diminished
tremendously. There's all kinds of other
data a lot of that's been hoovered up
like two years ago they had a great data
advantage now between there's all kinds
of video networks around the world and
all that kind of stuff. Um
we first big model of the year was
Mythos right mythos right mythos you
know anthropic you know announced an
early checkpoint to say everybody we did
it for whatever reasons but they did it
and mythos highly capable model that's
February
February it is going to be October in a
week almost eight months Google has not
come up with anything of those quality
they've had a big shakeup with people
leaving from Google. All the parts are
there, but like I can put all the parts
to a Boeing 747 in a hanger. I don't
have a Boeing 747. And I think that's
Google's problem is that Google has all
these distributed teams, all this sort
of stuff. Just just building a capable
frontier model seems like it should be a
thing they could do, but they haven't
been able to do. And we're like, well,
Gemini 4. I'm like, great. I heard about
Gemini 3.5. And then then we we we just
I don't know it. I don't believe it.
Inside tech, people are like counting.
Don't Google's considered the third tier
lab. Um I know that you could look at
numbers for Gemini. I will tell you that
I am counted as a Gemini user. Although
I've never intentionally used Gemini in
the last several months. It's just send
me more information. Click I'm in
Gemini. I didn't ask for that. I
literally wanted to see the rest of this
thing. I think they're gooseing their
numbers on stuff. I think the models
have gotten kind of better in some ways,
but they absolutely suck inside of their
apps. If you go into I'm I'm better off
using Chat GPT or Claude with a Google
tool than I am using Gemini just because
their implementation is wrong. So I
don't
>> So let me ask you this though, like you
know Meta doesn't have a frontier model,
but it seems like Muse has been a hit in
terms of being able to get things done
for you uh and being uh uh quick, smart
enough, quick uh and available.
You have seen the things that you're
right, the model history for Google has
been checkered. the thing that they've
gotten the most praise for has been
their spark bottles that are very fast
and are are efficient for what they do.
Is there an advantage for them in the
agentic world uh because you know
they're have access to the same tools
that everybody else now have access to?
>> Well, they they they so I mean Muse is
not a super high concept thing. Muse is
not a hard thing. Muse is an easy thing.
A startup could have built Muse. Muse is
not a technical wonder. It's literally
it's open claw and an app and it's
taking all that stuff and do it in there
and it's fine. It's fine. Um will will
muse have big share on a year? I don't
know what will happen when and I think
Google will build a thing. It'll get
used. I'm not saying no nobody's going
to use it but I just feel like you know
we've Agentic stuff is hard. Google has
not built good agentic stuff. Their
coding stuff sucks. Absolutely sucks.
And coding coding tools are downstream
for agentic because it's how your stuff
works together. internally they were
using claude to code at Google. That's
how bad it is at Google that they're
using outside models to to code because
they don't even want to use their own
stuff. Um
they can all build you know an open claw
for normies. The question is going to be
where is the frontier going to be in
three months from now because you know
if open eye comes out with AON comes out
with their whatever the rumor is that
the continuously longunning stuff open
token efficiencies by the way are
insane. Like if you look at open router
GPT6 Luna or GPT 5.6 Luna now 6 Luna
super cheap. Like literally you're like
at 10 cents per million tokens. It can
just do way more at a lower cost. That's
part of it too is that Google could say,
"Yeah, we're going to spend $50 on
compute per person per month and have to
figure out how to make it back. But if
you don't have a compute advantage, I'm
I'm I don't I don't see a path for them.
I think they'll they're Google. They'll
be around forever. I'll still use Google
services, but
>> I don't know, man. I think I think I
think we're about to get and it may not
be open AI and they may not get it
right. I don't know. But I think we're
we're looking at we're looking at the
hip the sidekick and the Blackberry and
we haven't seen the iPhone yet and we're
about to see the iPhone of Agentic stuff
and then we're going to go, oh,
>> I I I I agree with you in terms of the
forward-looking element of this. What I
will say is
Meta has a terrible reputation.
We are now on the second movie about how
bad Facebook's reputation is. Uh whether
or not it is deserved, although I did
see the clip of Bill Bird yelling at uh
Logan Roy and I was siding WITH LOGAN
ROY.
>> I KNOW. YOU'RE LIKE IT WAS TERRIBLE.
LIKE YOU GUYS LIKE you're you you've
done the thing. Yeah, I was hilarious.
Like
were they talking like it was Brian Cox
or
>> Oh no, not Logan Roy. Ken whatever it
dude from Succession. Uh he's Mark
Zuckerberg and Bill Burr is yelling at
him and and
>> far be me to criticize my fellow fellow
Syracuse University alum Aaron Sorcin
but uh he's sober now.
He's sober now.
>> He he he he's making this art. Bill Burr
making the Aaron Sorcin argument that
that that Zuckerberg let us down by not
policing political speech
>> is basically what it is. You're going to
let them say anything. Well, YES. WHAT
IF IT'S LIES? And it's like I want to
intersperse that with like uh you don't
need a mask, you know, and then we did
need masks, you know, like like uh you
know the Russia hoax, all this sort of
stuff. I want to just interperse it with
like wait, which which one are you
talking about, guy? It was such a crazy
thing. Like man, you made him you made
him really sympathetic here. Like I'm
I'm agreeing with the Facebook point of
view on that. It was
>> with that being said, Meta's reputation
is terrible. Uh they have they are
looked at by many and I would say
including me as a company that will when
the chips are down make the wrong
decision regardless of whether or not
the facts are aren't on their side.
There are there are metaphans. I just
don't know that many of them. And I
don't think that generally and broadly
they have a great reputation.
Google does. Apple does like they have a
connection with a a a subset of people
that will be eager to want to trust
them. And if they can put out something
that is
good
for a lot of people, for a huge swath of
of of America, if not the world, they're
going to be the first time that that
experience happens for them. Uh because
this is going to be the kind of
technology that will finally be the
Jetson's future. That will just be it
works there. I have one point of access
to it. It's coming to me. It is bringing
me pro is solving problems for me before
I even think of the problems. Oh my god,
I'm so glad about blank whatever they
call it. If they get it baseline level
right, will it be the best version? I
doubt it because they don't have the
best models. They haven't seemed to be
able to do that. They had just had a
gigantic shakeup there a few months ago.
But can they do a good thing and will
that good thing be uh embraced by
people? I think they got a decent shot
at it in the same way that Apple would
have had a decent shot at it if they
would have gotten their head out of
their ass, you know, two years ago. I
mean, you might be right, but like I'm
I'm we live in a world where chat GBT
still dominates Gemini in the chat
assistant. Like just just just just that
the the numbers and actual engagement
time way exceeds that.
>> And so you're asking the question I'm
going is like again it's like all the
parts are in the hanger. I'm like cool.
But they keep flaming it for for very
strategic reasons. Like do I think they
could build like I I mean I would say I
think they could but they should have
built cursor two years ago but they
didn't do that.
>> And do I think they could build a good
agentic you know muse like thing
whatever plugs in Google. Yeah I think
they could
>> but by the time they do it and they
ships I think what we're going to be
liking and experiencing is going to be
way better. Yeah,
>> that's the thing. It's like I'm saying
it's it's like I'm saying it's like
we're looking at the thing going now
and we're going to be seeing new
hardware, new stuff, new experiences,
new models designed different ways. I'm
like, yeah, by the time they do, I'm
like, well, that's cute.
>> Yeah. You know, I think that there's a
because the timelines have moved up so
rapidly in this age. I think that
there's this thought that things can be
kind of instantaneous
and like like yo, they started working
on it three weeks ago and now it's
shipping and like some of that is true.
You do hear stories like that or
companies like will brag about how fast
uh things get developed, but at the end
of the day, this is still kind of like a
boat race. Like once the momentum is
going, some things it it it takes a lot
for a boat that has a head start to lose
that head start to another boat that
starts later. Like there are there are
just kind of like physics reality to to
some of this stuff. And if you look at
where and I think what what Andrew what
I would concede to what I assume is your
point is that we are probably
underestimating
what advantage
anthropic and open AI have over every
other lab that's not anthropic or open
AI in terms of like what it means to own
the frontier. Like when you're going
back and forth between Astra and Mythos
and 5.5 and everything, it's like and
even just looking at like, okay, well,
they've got two models ahead internally
that are helping them develop the tools
that are going to define stuff. What
kind of advantage does that have? Cuz
guess who doesn't have that? Meta
doesn't have that.
SpaceX AI doesn't have that. Google
doesn't have that. Everybody else that
is is in this game doesn't have that. Uh
what advantage that give you? Because if
you listen to them, if you listen to
Anthropic and Open AI, that's what
they'll tell you. This is our secret
cap. We have the super machine that
helps us make the other super machines.
But it's also, you know, the the org,
you know, anthropic, you know, pretty
much Daario calls the shots. You know,
Daario is super smart. I may disagree
with Dario on a number of things. Daario
is not dumb. And Daario understands this
deeply. Gets it and has had a very good
persistent vision that's worked out
really well. Anthropic's done incredibly
well for itself. Opening eye, you've got
Sam. And Sam Sam's got a great team. Sam
knows who to listen to. Sam willing to
defer. And Sam's willing to say, "Let's
do this, that." And Sam has been
thinking for decades about consumer and
where to go and what this and has really
good tools, really good people around
him to figure that stuff out. You know,
Google is a power struggle, you know,
between, you know, it's Larry now. You
know, it's been a and it's been a it's a
bunch of thiefs and stuff and the only
times they get stuff done is when Larry
was able to cut red tape and move across
stuff. It's a disadvantage for them, you
know. Um,
you know, but, you know, who knows? you
know, things that happen, things that
change. Um, but we get cool tools to
play with. Want to talk about cool stuff
we're playing with?
>> Yes. But, uh, first, just real quick, I
feel like we would be bad hosts of the
Weird Things podcast if we didn't talk
about how sad I felt for this influencer
getting into the ring with a robot. I
was terrified. Did you guys see this
clip?
>> Uh, no. I I I I
heard about it.
Uh, it is this dude this dude is covered
in pads and and got in the ring with a
with a Terminator looking butt. And
every time this thing kept kicking him,
it was like, oh, it was so visceral. It
was brutal.
>> Yeah.
>> I wanted to know. What I don't know is
how heavy that robot is.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, I would like to know that.
Look, I'm all for spectacle. I am all
for There was part of me that saw that
and I'm like, awesome. Like, let's put
that in as big of an arena as possible.
I need Jake Paul fighting a robot as
soon as we can book the AT&T Stadium in
Dallas, Texas. Let's Let's go. On the
other hand,
you know, not not to be Brian Brushwood
and not fooled, like if you were gonna
lay down for the spectacle to create the
video,
you know.
>> Yeah. I watched a guy run up straight
into it and wait for the robot to kick
him, you know, and I'm like, I don't
know. I'd run around the side, throw it
down like I don't know. I
I felt like I was watching a show and
not a real fight.
>> Yeah,
>> I'd like to see it though. I would like
to see a a a humanoid robot go up
against somebody who was actually
trained and stuff like that. Although I
think that you would have to It would be
a new sport because obviously you can't
tap out a robot, right? Like the concept
of a submission
is based around human pain.
Yeah.
Uh
>> yeah, I think you have to think about
it. Yeah. Um
>> Yeah. I mean, but I think it's like, all
right, if you were to just do takedowns
or uh you know, just judge the fighting.
I will say this, having seen there are a
bunch of robot fight clubs in Silicon
Valley. Uh there's a reason why they
don't post full fights that they post
highlights is because, you know, it's
less visually compelling than
Battlebots.
Um
>> yeah,
>> I will I will say that was more visually
interesting than robot-onroot fighting.
I was more excited to see a human fight
a robot. I would actually just like to
see,
you know, I got questions. I got
questions is all I'll say with that with
that particular clip.
>> Uh well, the only other thing I thought
about you guys that I wanted to just
see, have you guys watched these videos
from Gossip Goblin? They they look like
they're
>> He is awesome, right?
>> These like like very Terry Gileiam kind
ofesque uh uh clips. But of the people
that are doing
AI video, there's a few of them. That's
one. There's one, don't judge me.
Haunted AI. Uh it's just these like
creepy pasta uh you know clips of people
getting their heads beaten and eaten and
stuff like that like but that one's also
good. Scop anime is awesome for this
very uh8s kind of anime style. They're
actually building their own engine which
is awesome. Um
but yeah uh uh there there are some
really good Twitter follows.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's funny like the thing like one
Sora was great because it put us into
the videos, right? That's what made Sora
like I go back my wife still pulls up
videos of like Sora that we made that
were funny and I haven't had a moment
like that with humans put it into it
that were like that. But then the funny
thing was watching the fruit videos take
over like how all of a sudden just click
the right buttons and now you know
explain it with fruit characters and we
were like oh I like this and it's it's
the uncanny valley. It's it's figuring
that out and giving you something that's
also not der not obviously derivative of
something else other than Veggie Tales.
You know, if I try to make it look too
Pixar, try to make it like that, I'm
going to compare it to that. But if I'm
watching, you know, a banana gangster,
you know, story, I'm like, well, that's
different. I'm into that. So many
lessons to be learned.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting to see
it emerge as its own unique art form
that obviously everything starts
You know, it it's it's interesting to
remember that like the viral video as we
know it.
Well, one of the earliest was uh uh like
the Stormtrooper Cops remake.
>> Troops, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Troops. And it's like it's like wow.
It's it's kind of the same thing now.
It's like the first thing we want to see
when we have the tech is something we've
seen before but funny and different.
Yeah. And then eventually you get, you
know, what is what is the linear path
from
uh troops to to back rooms, right? Like
uh uh an entirely internet-based creepy
pasta that then becomes a you know what
will be, I'm sure, a huge horror
franchise.
Uh I I do have a pick. My pick is the
program AI for Humans. It's one of my
favorite podcasts. I'm all the way
caught up and uh it's put on by Gavin
Purcell and Kevin Pereira and uh they
they do a really really tight show. I I
love getting their takes and hearing the
latest news from them.
>> Cool. Cool.
>> Um
man, I'll go with Instinct. I've I I've
used Instinct over the last week.
uh it has consistently surprised me
um
in being proactive in solving problems.
You know, I had a thing today where it
was on my to-do list to nudge some
people on a project and I was like,
"Hey, uh uh did you see anything from my
email from either of the people like and
they were like and Instinct was like,
"Nope." uh but here's what you can write
back right now. And I was like, "No, no,
no. Don't send that." And then we
rewrote it via text. And eventually I
just sent them the email via text. And
it's not technically anything I couldn't
do even on codeex, even on Chad GPT.
Like I I would normally do it there. It
was an abstraction above that that got
me to do a thing that I wouldn't have
otherwise done uh quicker. Um, it may
well be a front for the IRGC and I am uh
I have no idea who's running it, but I
do think that some of the design
decisions that they have made, the UI
decisions that they have made uh are
things that I would like to see in
another Agentic system when they become
available.
Yeah. Um
I don't know. I'm I'm I'm I'm be curious
to see what's going to like make it
survive the next six to eight weeks.
>> You're saving it for marriage. I know. I
know. I'm just saying. I'm out I'm out
here sewing my wild oats.
>> I know. I know. I'm just just
>> publicly known stuff, privately implied
stuff. I'm just like, "Cool, go use
that. Have fun with your sidekick danger
hip top." Um
>> uh that was actually a pretty cool
device. Um,
>> cool device.
>> But yeah, I I I think that I think
there's a lot of I think this these
types of tools are like the autocomplete
mail apps, you know, right now. They're
the low hanging fruit that's going to
come solid better. Um, my pick is I got
the new I I've been AirPods Pro users
for a long time because the noise
cancellation is really good, but they go
into my ears. I fall asleep in there
sometimes. Not good. Um, I bought the
new AirPods, the regular AirPods, and
they're fantastic. The noise
cancellation on it is really really
really good. Um these are like the the
$130 or the 150 whatever with the with
the uh the charging on it. Highly
recommend.
>> Oh
>> I've been I've been been a pro user for
forever and then I I bought I they
haven't come out with the new pro ones
but also the pro ones just I was just
having problems because it goes into my
ear and I said let me try this.
Well done. Well done. So,
>> good job, Coopertino.
>> Yeah.
>> Rest easy tonight.
>> Yeah.
All right, gentlemen.
It's been weird.
>> We did it. We got
>> the bathroom.
>> Awesome. Same thing.
Uh
oh.
I I Well, it's I kind of really want to
get the rest of that uh Patreon stuff,
but we we should do a short we after
things.
>> Okay, cool.
>> Yeah.
>> Did I intentionally color the show after
Andrew's shirt? Uh, no. But it wouldn't
surprise me if if some kind of uh uh
subconscious drift happened here. I'll
tell you what. I'm gonna go to the
bathroom, too. Look at that. You guys
are gonna watch three rooms. Crazy.
Heat. Heat.
Yeah. Yeah.
Heat.
Heat.
Oh, yeah.
All right. I was telling Andrew that um
I I got to jump on getting all the
Patreon stuff posted, so we'll try to
keep it short. Yeah. All right. Ready?
In three, two.
>> Hello and welcome to Afterthanks. I'm
Andrew Mine joined by Justin Robert
Young.
>> Hello.
>> And Mr. Brian Brushwood.
>> Howdy. Howdy. Howdy.
>> Gentlemen, you know, there's been this
debate what's going to happen with the
future because we've got all these AI
tools doing stuff for us. And uh and I
see some kind of like I can tell when
sometimes when somebody's like in an AI
lab and they're a bit exhausted, you
know, like ah I don't my job won't have
to be done anymore and you know but what
is everybody else going to do, you know?
And then and then I'm like touch grass.
I we live in a world where
right now there's somebody trying to
figure out how to make a really cool D&D
game with a notepad and a piece of paper
and he's going to share it with other
people are going to think it's pretty
rad because that guy made it.
>> You know, we we we live in a world where
people are making things and doing
stuff. And
turns out that some of the things that
are the most exciting and interesting
are things that let us build like
Minecraft. Why is Minecraft fun? You got
to build robots. Robux building stuff.
We've created the most awesome thing in
the world for building things now. And I
kind of think we're gonna build stuff.
Uh Justin showed me something earlier.
It wasn't his iPhone Duo, but he showed
me a 3D print of something he made. Not
not Yeah. Uh and and you know, now we're
in this world where I can just we're
going to get within a year, you know,
really good integration between, you
know, codeex or claude or whatever and
your 3D printer. Because I thought about
I thought about the builtness the other
day. I'm like, "Oh, I could just put a
box around my 3D printer and tell like
Codex like build me something and
surprise me, you know, and then wake up
and see what it made me." That's real.
>> Wow, that's amazing. That is amazing.
>> That is real.
>> Um
Yeah. Uh that's been a really
extraordinary thing is is codeex being
able to make 3D print things. I mean,
that's uh so I I think I shared this
story. So, uh, in the before times, I
reverse engineered some keyless remote
entry key fobs and attached keyboard
buttons and and, uh, made this whole
thing where I could control music cues
during my magic show by tapping the back
of my left or right foot. And, uh, that
was really useful because you could
advance and fade out cues and play pause
and all that stuff. And I've been
chasing getting that back. And I had a
whole system worked out with V-Mix, the
production software that we're using
right now. And in order to totally
replicate everything, there's a little
bit of scripting hoopla or whatever. And
uh when I went out to do this gig at
Embry Riddle, I had I was using codeex
to write the scripts and get it all
working or whatever. And at some point,
I off-handedly wished for more features.
Oh, it'd be great if is there a way to
make this list in the corner of V-Mix
bigger? And it says, "Sure can, boss."
And so it's like, just open this window.
I'm like, oh, there it is. And then it's
like, well, can I add this? Can I add
that? What I didn't know is at some
point in giving my wishes, it was
solving it outside of V-Mix. It
literally just wrote a program outside
of the program. And that was how I
accidentally coded my first really
useful program. It was I I suspect that
that magical moment for me is about to
be experienced by about 8 billion 500
million more people. And I'm really
excited when everybody has those aha
moments that in our lifetime we got to
see with the internet and before ours
that people saw with television and
radio and telephone and and and
>> I hear some hard disagreement out there,
gentlemen.
No, I mean obviously we all agree with
with with with with the transformational
power of the tech and and these like aha
moments that we are wise enough to know
are precious and uh wise enough to know
are things that are are are amazing. In
fact, it's it's one of those things my
my fondest memories of my grandfather
before he passed was how much of a nerd
he was for the Apple 2GS and how much he
wanted to share with me how to use and
how to play with the Apple 2GS. And he
was an engineer, an electrical engineer.
But I I can understand now although I am
younger than where he was before he
died. Uh that part of it for him was
like knowing I don't know how many more
of these kind of like miracles I get to
see this like not only is it precious
that it is happening again but I get to
share it with my grandson. I get to he's
old enough to know that this is really
cool. like that was that was unique.
But yeah, just realizing like, oh, I I
had a thing, you know, I'm building the
fitness app and I was talking to Andrew
about it and I was like, oh, you know, I
think I might use this third party
service to track users and, you know,
like just to have a dashboard.
And Andrew's like, "Why just create the
program that can live on Cloudflare?"
And I'm like, "Well, what about the
dashboard?" He's like, "Well, when you
need to see numbers, just ask for a
dashboard. It'll make a dashboard." like
make the dashboard you need in the
moment as opposed to relying on somebody
who's doing a homogeneous best guess as
to what kind of things you would need to
look at. And it's like, wow. Oh my god.
This is, you know, there was a a clip
from um season three of uh World's
Greatest Con where we were talking,
we're playing all these old clips about
psychics and Yuri Geller. And one of
them was like, "Well, if that's true, we
all have a lot of new thinking to do."
And that's I it runs through my head
constantly because I'm just like like,
damn, I have a lot of new thinking to
do. Like there's a lot of new thinking I
have to do. Like everything that I used
to think is what I should do or what I
can do or what like it's all
erased these boundaries all this grayed
out element of my life now is playable.
Yeah. And quite simply, you know, since
after things is about, you know,
empowering independent creators, um,
number one habit that that I could give
to anybody is uh uh to just be
questioning like like to think about how
to ask for things because for so many
domains, we just have functionally a
genie and the only thing that's going to
cost you anything is not thinking of how
to ask. And by the way, one of the
wishes you can ask is yes, you can ask
for more wishes, but even better, you
can wish for advice on getting wishes.
You know, in uh one of the Pen and
Teller books is an essay from Penellet
uh where there's a genie that pops out
and the genie loves to get up to all
kinds of nasty tricks. But the the way
the protagonist wins the the short story
is by a carefully crafted wish in which
he pins the genie down in being an
adviser. And because the genie knows all
the best ways to wish. He's seen all the
fools and knows how they got screwed. Uh
he says, "Well, I do I want to ask to be
thin?" It's like, "No, what you want to
do is ask for this that will cause you
to do the habits and and and and we have
that. That's a reality now. It's
amazing.
>> Uh,
>> so a few things since we're talking
about actionable items in after things.
Number one,
if you are on the Chad, if you're in the
Chad GBT ecosystem and you are using, if
you're in the Chad GBT ecosystem and
you're not using the Chad GBT desktop
app, slap slap, slap, slap, slap. Get on
the desktop app. That is ridiculous. If
you don't know what you need it for,
download it first and then just ask what
do you tell me what I probably need you
for.
>> Astra
and I will say six soul
are exceptional for computer use. Um,
it can just use the computer
exceptionally well, really fast. Uh,
it is great for video editing. Um, and I
would encourage any and everybody to
think about editing video however you
can. Um, you know, if if you are in that
world, if you are in a world where you
ever need to just edit a short little
clip uh down, then go ahead and do it.
Uh, that's awesome. On a personal note,
one of the things, one of my big
laments, if you've listened to me for a
long period of time, then you have
probably heard, is that I I uh I'm one
of these ding-dongs that wears a
smartwatch and I track everything and I
have for
forever, right? Like, ever since they
came out with the Apple Watch, I've been
tracking stuff. A lot of people do it
with the Whoop ring or the Whoop band or
the Aura ring, blah blah blah blah blah.
My big gripe has always been like, "What
the hell am I doing with all these
numbers? These numbers suck. They just
pile up and they're dumb graphs that
it's like, okay, awesome. I guess for
the quarterly reports, I'll be able to
run all my numbers like my doctors don't
care about them. It's just, you know, it
is what it is."
So, I had a thing today. I I've been
working out a lot. I've been counting my
calories a lot. You can follow my
adventures on Instagram. But I realized
I'm like, man, you want to know what
these numbers are starting to look a
little familiar? The best shape I ever
got in was during the pandemic. I wonder
where I was then and where I am now and
what the difference is. So I kind of
realized for the first time ever
all of this data actually mattered and I
had the tool to excavate it. So I have
chat GPT health which plugs into Apple
health which means that it has recorded
all of my Apple data. It has recorded
all of my smart scale data. I was able
to do that. I was able to get the exact
day that I weighed that I was in the
best shape that I had recorded. uh then
go into my photos and find pictures that
I took of me at the best that I was that
I was at. I can compare them to where I
am now. And then, you know, there was a
very interesting thing that popped up.
I'm about the same weight that I was at
my best, but my body fat percentage is
about 2% different. So, I went to health
and I was like, well, how does is this
because of the scale? Is this because
I'm just that much older and my
metabolism has changed? And because it
has access to everything, health was
like, "No, you were just walking a lot
more." It was the pandemic. You had
literally nothing else to do. So, all
you did was just leave the house and
walk aimlessly for, you know, hours and
hours and hours. It was like about 300
to 400 more calories each and every day
just because I was walking that much
more. And it's like, that's the
difference. It's like, yes, you're
right. your resting burn rate is
slightly less than it was, but not by
that much. Enough that it would explain
the the body fat difference. And it was
like finally, finally, like the the
point of all of this has finally borne
fruit that I could take an idle thought
and get actual
like numbers out of it. And if you have
been like me and you've tracked these
things forever, like it it opened my eye
to like what what I can do, comparisons,
uh uh and and like all of this stuff now
finally being worth it. It felt like I
had come out uh uh you know, I I now
discovered that the the seed I planted
oh so many years ago had become a
beautiful redwood. It was it was great.
>> That's awesome.
>> It is. Yeah, it's I log stuff like I use
like my ring and I track stuff kind of
like I don't really pay a lot of
attention now, but I know that later on
that data is useful and helpful and they
have it and you know getting into that,
you know, I think is useful
and man I I love being able to ask chat
GPT medical questions.
>> Great stuff. Anyway, you can watch uh
and see all the pictures in the video
that I edit by recording one thing right
after I'm done with this and then
editing it while I'm on a walk and then
posting it probably while I'm still on
the same walk over the next few hours.
That's what I'm going to do like that.
And that's the difference is that I'm
not going to I'm going to review all the
cuts and then edit them via voice while
I am on a walk and then post it while
I'm on that same walk. And that is
insane. without hiring a person. That's
all just going to happen on my own
computer.
>> Yeah.
Hey, uh so I got a I got a self-serving
pick. Um a project that I'm trying uh
and Andrew, I'm excited to hear if if
this I don't know feels familiar to you
as it does to me. I was thinking about
how much this this current moment feels
like familiar territory to anybody who
came up in Magic. There are different
phases where at first you become
convinced that you know magic is in the
gizmo or the trick deck of cards or
whatever and then you learn that it's
something more than that. But when we
learn magic, we learned all the good
stuff either one buried deep inside a
book in which case you had to be that
kind of person that could do a lot of
reading. Uh this is before the internet.
Uh really the best way to learn all the
good stuff was at magic club meetings.
But if you wanted the really really good
stuff, you went to a magic lecture. And
a magic lecture was a unique thing where
it was essentially a version of a magic
show except with your $25 ticket, you
got to hang out and then the magician
would carefully explain everything in
his act and you had permission to take
anything you wanted from it. You know,
if something was off limits, they would
say so. And then there was this third
phase to every magic lecture which is
the the kind of hanging around
afterwards that was super valuable when
everybody would share their very best
bits of business and all that. And so I
realiz my theory and I'll find this out
tomorrow is whether or not we could
replicate that in a little kind of magic
luxury kind of environment. So tomorrow
uh I'm doing a a little ticketed event
because if there's money in it then I
can keep on justifying doing it again
and again. But I'm calling it
underground productivity fight club
number one. If you go to
fight.scamstuff.com
and uh my thing the idea is everyone
show up with your best observation hack
trick. One thing you're really proud of
that maybe it could be made better.
Maybe it there's a chance somebody else
haven't hasn't heard of it. For me, what
I'm doing is uh my little trick has been
every time I hop on a call for the last
year and a half, uh people do a double
take because I wanted to solve for the
problem of when people are talking and
they're looking away on Zoom or what are
they doing? What are they up to? Is
there attention on something else or or
what? So, I combined this, you know,
teleustrator kind of setup. So I take
notes right in front of people and it
captures more attention and then that in
the age of wizardry has become stuff
like this where I created interactive
tools that will show that you know for
example it could recognize me blowing
off to the side and then it animates all
the letters going off in real time. That
little bit of magic gets people to do a
double take and if I've got a big
important point then that that drives it
home. And then likewise, I even do a
thing where I draw three different
layers of a thing and then it uh uh I
hit a button and it animates with
parallax and all this stuff. That all
happens on the fly as if I'm making a
sand castle in front of them. And the
impact is so great. I can't wait to tell
you guys all about it. But that's my
trick that I'm teaching tomorrow. If you
want to join the underground fight club
at fight.scamstuff.com scamstuff.com and
uh bring your own tricks as well and
we'll see whether or not this can be a
regular thing.
>> That's very cool. You know, it's
interesting like how in the age of
cinema how like vaudeville had to step
up the game and a lot of magic and
stuff. We got sand art, all kinds of
weird stuff. So, very cool.
Um,
yeah. Uh, get a big account on whatever
you like and use it. Just build stuff.
Great. Build build.
>> Hell yeah.
>> Then after.
>> Nailed it. Uh, Joey H66 asks, "If if I
can't make it, will you get a VOD?" Yes,
of course.
>> Of course.
Yeah,
speaking of which, that's my to-do
tonight is to figure out all the
presentational stuff for that. Although
that's that's just a Zoom meeting is the
only expectation there. So, that'll be
easy.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh Biocalow says, "Oh, I may
sign up then if it'll be recorded."
Yeah. The idea is uh it's not that Brian
is on a mountain proclaiming wisdom.
It's that Brian is farther ahead of the
of all of you in one specific direction,
but all of you are farther ahead of me
in other directions. And if we all just
check in, then we can ameliorate that
that that vague sense that we're missing
out on something.
>> Awesome.
>> All right, beautiful people. Thank you
very much live folks uh for being here
for the maiden voyage of of of new
layout. Bye guys.