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>> All right, bro. David, what's up?
>> Thanks for having me back on. Yeah,
>> my pleasure.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, you're the one that's closest to
the flame, so tell me what's going on.
>> Oh, I know, right? So, uh, living a
nightmare is what I tell my friends. So,
it's definitely um been a tough several
years or so. And uh you know last time
we were on uh just testified in front of
Congress and uh the UAP Disclosure Act
of 23 was you know possibly getting
passed. It failed to get passed and then
I um based on you know things I know
about the Biden administration, things I
heard from the White House, I decided to
kind of lay low for a year. So 24 I
didn't do too much. And then uh
Representative Burlson had this crazy
idea to to hire me as a professional
staff member for Congress working for
him. Uh turns out I guess I was like the
first guy that ever testified in front
of Congress as a whistleblower and then
being subsequently hired by Congress. Um
I was the first guy to ever do that
which is very interesting and very cool.
And I I do thank Burlson for um you know
his leadership on that. And so I did
that for about a year and a half. um
just finished up actually. I was like,
you know what? I'm staying longer than I
thought. You know, I'm going to wait
until Labor Day, see where things are. I
worked pretty hard over uh uh summer
recess in August and and decided uh to,
you know, wind down some of my
activities because I accomplished a lot
of my objectives. We can get into that
obviously and then uh kind of move into
I'll call it my next phase of
operations, which includes a little
break for me. Um it's been very tiring.
I've been kind of, you know, going full
throttle for the last couple years and
whatnot. And so we're really at a, I
think, a poignant moment in US history
with what Trump's done and the things
you've seen in the media and whatnot.
And there's a lot of other stuff
happening behind the scenes because, you
know, a lot of my work has been private
behind the scenes, you know, working for
Congress, specifically Representative
Burlson.
>> So, let me ask you the environment. So,
are there some people in Congress that
are interested in disclosure of this
stuff and pursue you and want to find
out information and want you to tell
them what what's going on and and then
are there other people that are
resisting this? Yeah, I think there's a
big bifurcation of the non-believers and
then kind of the UAP caucus. Although
you see more and more people kind of
signing on to the cause like I did a
presser back in June in front of the
capital with members and we even had
Brigider General retired uh
representative Scott Perry there who was
on the House Intelligence Committee from
my home state of PA and it was good to
see other members, you know, start
showing that they support the cause. But
it has been challenging behind the
scenes and I had many skiff classified
meetings with the members kind of going
over the topological history of this
topic and and some of the deeper darker
kind of you know criminal stuff I bumped
into and how I worked with DOJ to kind
of highlight some of that stuff and
that's what
>> kind of criminal stuff.
>> Yeah. So, uh, when I was, um, looking
into this, and I have to be very
respectful of, uh, my participation in
this because it's an ongoing thing with
DOJ. Um, I was, you know, following the
money, bumping into other activities.
Um, very much like, actually, it's sort
of related. And if you saw in the news
that David Rush, very similar name to
me, it's kind of uh, freaky, uh, but he
was arrested with $40 million of gold
bars. He was a CIA officer. where he
made a fake uh continuity of government
special access program and you know he
went under the radar basically um doing
his own thing and getting gold and
Rolexes and stuff and the FBI raided his
house back in May. True true story.
Yeah, the guy has a
>> is that gold bars?
>> He has he had $40 million of gold bars.
>> Where did he get the gold bars
>> from the agency?
>> They have them laying around.
>> Yeah. I can't get into all the details
of why the government
>> Hold on. The government has gold bars.
>> Yeah. And this guy just snatched him.
>> Yeah. He made I don't know all the
details, but he made a fake continuity
of government special access program
that nobody was briefed into. He like,
you know, papered it and uh nobody at
the CIA questioned what he was doing.
And he was like, "Well, I need, you
know, 40 million in gold bars because of
the special continuity of government
activity."
>> Wait, wait, wait. So that's how they
fund some things in gold bars.
It's almost like uh in Afghanistan when
I was over there, I'd have guys with
briefcases full of $100,000 in cash cuz
you have to pay for things, right?
>> So,
>> but that kind of makes more sense to me
than lugging around gold.
>> Yeah.
>> What does like 40 million in gold bars
look like?
>> Uh I saw the seizure photos. It's a lot.
I mean, it's really
>> Can I see what that looks like?
>> It's approximately 303 gold bars that
each weigh approximately 1 kilogram a
piece.
>> Yo, that's a lot of weight. Yeah, I was
looking for a picture. There's only like
AI photos of it
>> at least that I could find.
>> So, a kilogram is 1.2.2 lb.
>> Yeah. 2.28 or something.
>> That's crazy.
>> 600.
>> He's got 600 lb of gold.
>> Yeah.
>> Where the [ __ ] do you put? So, he just
had it in his house.
>> He did have it at his house and he
laying around.
>> Bunch of Rolexes and all that. And
>> Oh, so he was just going crazy.
>> Yeah. Well, who knows what he was really
going to use the gold for, but that
that's an open-ended thing. And he was
he was pretending that he was using it
for some disclosure type deal or did it
have anything to do with UAPs?
>> Uh not that I'm aware of, but that same
ecosystem I bumped into. So his
fabricated program was a continuity
government program. So that's like, you
know, if something bad happens,
>> people are going to a hideout site, you
know, sanitized location,
>> right?
>> And so what I bumped into unfortunately
was like the deep underbelly of the
federal government. We can get into it.
It's it's a lot of stuff I've never
talked about because it's just very
terrifying and I you know I've been
through a lot of a lot of crazy [ __ ] and
I ended up bumping into a criminal
enterprise uh run out of a particular
agency and um it was basically um
getting money through certain criminal
endeavors the most unspeakable type of
criminal endeavors under the cover of uh
certain national security programs.
That's about as
>> When you say certain unspeakable
>> Yeah.
>> You mean like what do you mean like
trafficking?
>> Yeah.
>> Like child trafficking.
So the government was involved in child
trafficking for money.
>> Officers of the government. That's true.
Yeah. It's it's [ __ ] up. I uh I
briefed members in a classified setting
all the details. Um, and I I'm
highlighting that because
this is how serious this issue is is
there's an ecosystem and there's a lot
of good people are on these programs in
terms of the the UAP side. Yeah. And I
know a lot of them. They're friends of
mine. They're patriotic people doing
their duty, but there is like a small
little cast system of characters um that
are part of this larger ecosystem of uh
no holds barred. we're going to do what
we want and you know we're going to do
whatever kind of criminal activity to
get a washed money uh for our cutouts
like so a good example of course would
be Iran Contra right which is very
famous 86 and the CIA was engaged in
those kind of activities and this has
all been exposed all over north and all
that to fund the contras weapons
purchases procurement etc and a lot of
that you know seemed to uh possibly be
drug trafficking the government never
confirmed that but you look at Barry
Seal and and his um uh statements in the
80s and 90s and and it's likely that
that um probably occurred, you know.
>> Yeah. It was all through Freeway Ricky
Ross.
>> Yeah, that's right.
>> Yeah. Ricky's been on the podcast
multiple times.
>> That's right. That's right.
>> Yeah. He was on what is it like two
years ago, year and a half ago. Last
time he was on. Um
>> it's funny cuz he's out now. Uh became
an attorney while I was in jail. Found
out learned to read first. Okay.
Couldn't read. became an attorney in
jail, found out that they tried him. You
know that triple jeopardy, three strikes
thing.
>> Yeah.
>> They tried him incorrectly. They used
that incorrectly because it's supposed
to be three different times you were
arrested instead of like three crimes
that were attached to one arrest. So, he
gets out of jail. Now, he sells legal
weed.
>> All right. All right.
>> Lovely guy. But he he's a great guy, but
he had no idea that he was selling
cocaine to fund the Contra versus the
Sandinistas.
>> Interesting. He had no idea. He thought
that he was just a a slick character
that just knew what he was doing and
was, you know, he didn't realize that
the CIA was literally allowing him to do
it. Then we've also had Michael Roupert
on the podcast. You know who he is?
>> No.
>> Michael Roupert was the LA narcotics
officer that on uh I believe it was on
C-SPAN. He went on C-SPAN during a
hearing and he exposed the entire or
organization selling drugs in South
Central Los Angeles because he was
involved in it. He was involved in like
busting people that were doing it and
then they told him he has to leave it
alone because it was the CIA.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so when I bumped into
that stuff, you know, I immediately
worked at Department of Justice.
>> That's one level, but like child
trafficking is another level.
>> I know, man. It's it's really [ __ ] up
and and there's a lot of details that
are I have a lot more questions than
answers and and I you know I worked with
the OJ and you know from what I
understand uh I got a gold star in a
brief to Cash Patel about it last year.
I wasn't in the briefing, but I, you
know, I I was told I got kudos, but it
was very disturbing. And so, like,
obviously, a lot of these programs are
legal in the sense that there's in terms
of UAP stuff, there's, you know,
classified executive orders back in the
day that covers them and
>> and they're upstanding citizens and we
could we could litigate like, you know,
uh, Congress wasn't necessarily brought
into the fold enough from an oversight
perspective, etc. But, you know, the
core of the program, you know, does have
uh a legal beginning, but when you don't
have oversight, unfortunately, certain
small pockets of people start doing [ __ ]
that they shouldn't have. And I and
unfortunately,
>> I got deeply ins snared in that. There
was a very small group of people that
uh, you know, pushed me over the edge
and I had to do what I got to do to to
you know, protect myself. And I never
wanted to be a whistleblower. You know,
I was a deeply entrenched, you know,
15-year intel officer, military officer
in the Air Force. You know, I was
working some of the country's most
sensitive issues. You know, started
going to the White House to brief the
National Security Council in my mid20s
on space issues back during the Obama
administration. And and in 2019 when I
joined the UAP task force and I was
tasked to investigate this, I was like,
"Sure, I'll look into it." you know, the
special access program or black program
community has a lot of dysfunction and
and maybe some stuff wasn't reported,
you know, you know, correctly and and I
didn't know really what I was going to
find, but if there was a US program, you
know, I'd figure it out. I'd probably
get cleared to it and we'd be fine. We'd
have like a mafia meeting and and uh you
know that and I know why it was
protected the way it is and whatnot. But
unfortunately
about a year and a half about October
2020 is when kind of my life changed and
particular individuals instead of coming
to me who knew me by the way personally
I know I know them personally now Dave
you're bumping into something you know
I'm going to defensively brief you this
is what it is or hey I'm going to slide
an NDA sign this and I'll read you in
and my colleagues and I joked about that
like we're bumping in the [ __ ]
eventually somebody's going to knock on
my door in my office and be like, "Hey,
I need to talk to you." And
unfortunately, that never happens. Um,
it's really tragic because that would
have been an easier way. But, um, I
immediately got administratively nuked
in October 2020 and basically they went
after everybody around me. Uh my boss at
the National Reconnaissance Office as
you know Major Gush the Air Force
officer in the reserves got walked out
of NRO headquarters in Chantelli,
Virginia under fabricated
uh personal conduct things and and they
went after, you know, my chief of staff
who worked for me at NGA when I was a 15
and and co-workers, people they thought
were my enablers, right? And um and I
thought, okay, I could fight this.
They're bringing up like my mental
health stuff, which we've talked about
before, Afghanistan PTSD. I'm like, I
reported it. I was cleared of, you know,
no problems. Kept my top secret
clearance, and I still have my top
secret clearance, but it got very,
very um
scary in early 2022. And I've avoided
talking about this for a long time. And
I've mentioned in my hearing in 2023,
you know, I was, you know, I'm I'm here
in fear for my life, etc. Well, you
know, I'm not talking about the criminal
stuff. I found stuff that's happened in
my personal life and stuff. And so, back
in early 2022,
um everything's fine. Uh started uh
noticing some suspicious activity um
near where I live and I didn't think
much of it. Thought it was kind of
strange. And I don't want to quite go
into all the details, but basically
um later one particular day
uh I was sent a message that they can
touch me and my wife and they they're
they know where we are and they
>> and what do you think this was
particular? Was this because of the
child trafficking stuff? Was this
because of some other illegal activity
with no oversight? you know, in private
environments, I was asked what what red
line, what trip wire did I cross? To
this day, I don't know specifically. I
suspect uh based on them, what turns out
they were monitoring my classified
computer at work, uh my re my
investigation notes that I would keep
encrypted on there. I think they were
very worried that I figured out a lot of
things. And I I still don't know for
sure though, like and it and there's a
lot of other things too. I guess I'm
kind of jumping around because um in
early 2021, you know, certain people
that were helping me and I was talking
to started to experience uh Havana
syndrome symptoms, you know, anomalous
health incidents. And I know a lot about
that. That's another kind of ecosystem I
was an expert in in the government. And
of course, my first thing is like, huh?
Uh, did you piss off the Russians or
Chinese or some other kind of foreign
intelligence service or because you
don't think domestic. And I'm like, what
did you do in your career? Were you on
covert action programs? Did you like,
you know, bomb some, you know,
adversaries building and they're pissed
off at you and they hold a grudge? And
so I noticed that I wasn't going to
equate that to the topic. And
uh but I I was very nervous about that
because people I know uh were starting
to experience those symptoms
specifically uh microwave directed
energy most likely just based on um
certain tradecraftraft they were doing
to detect it which I won't get into the
details of that and then the their
symptomology so to speak and uh so that
was frightening and in in that 2021 time
frame I was sitting at home I was
getting you know investigated ated by
three agencies and um I really didn't
know what was going on. A lot of my
colleagues were kind of continuing on
that investigation on on on my behalf
and eventually in late 2021 NGA hired me
as a 15 off the street. Kind of came
back into government full-time. I was
hoping um that agency would protect me
against uh you know the CIA and the NRO
and and certain elements of the DoD that
were going after me because of these
couple antagonists that were trying to
you know basically um push me over the
edge administratively. But
what what I crossed the Rubicon in early
2022 when I was sent a message and it
was this the same day I was sent a
message other people got that message
too. So it was coordinated
geographically
and of course you know I reported that
to federal law enforcement count
intelligence element and at the time I'm
like well you know there was a one
adversarial intelligence agency that had
an interest in me several years ago and
I had a little incident that was
actually kind of funny. Um so I wasn't
sure if it was like the US government or
even if it was related um to the my
investigation. And then several several
uh weeks later
and I was I get chills talking about
this cuz it's it's kind of upsetting. Um
I was uh in DC um for a conference on
UAP actually uh for my for my agency NGA
at the time and I got summoned to an
offbooks
uh Senate Intel committee uh we'll call
it meeting in their you know their skiff
right their their vault where you can
talk classified information and certain
individuals were there known to me um
great credentials people I've known for
a while uh in my line of work and so was
you know a dozen dozen and a half uh
senior staff for Marco Rubio Mark
Wernern you know etc right and
in that meeting uh we you know we talked
about the legacy program the history
many hours and I'm going to fly on the
wall like this is really for Senate
staff I'm just kind of sitting in the
back and you know they turned to staff
and they you know they pointed at me and
they're like um oh by the way you know
the these couple individuals and they
and they named the individuals. I'm
like, I know who they are. Um
uh they uh wanted to kill you and um I
know Lu Alazand talked about it, but
why?
>> I do not know that for sure. I think
well so um
be careful what I say. Uh there are
certain presidential findings that allow
certain things to protect critical
things in the government. And my
assessment is I was getting so close to
exposing it because I was sort of
preparing my inspector general's uh
report to the IG that um I must have
crossed some sort of Rubicon. I still
would like to know and I hope these
people are you know uh brought to
justice and that's you know my wish and
dream and hopefully Department of
Justice does what's needed. But
>> there's an investigation ongoing right
now.
>> Yes. on that. And that's all I'll say
defensively not to interfere with that.
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>> Okay. How much of this do you think has
to do with actual UAP disclosure and how
much of it has to do with a lack of
oversight that allowed people to do
illegal activities? I think some problem
children decided to abuse some standing
options to protect, you know, critical
infrastructure in the United States,
which, you know, for example, that would
be like a Air Force flight line, a ICBM
silo, um, other activities. And they
decided, um, I was some sort of threat.
And it's it's so disgusting because I
you know like I said I was a fieldgrade
officer in the air force. I was a you
know GS15 a CIA colon equivalent
civilian and I'm sitting there in Senate
chambers and I'm hearing this and I
won't get into all the details. in it a
lot. I heard like you know all the
details on that and I don't want to like
um burn my sources and and I just
remember how upset the Senate staff was
and to the point where you know a
particular staffer um who's very senior
went to his office and got some whiskey
and you know all of them started
drinking in the skiff because it's like
everybody was afraid like are they
serious? or like they literally were
thinking about killing [ __ ] Dave and
like and and and I found out that there
was a kibash to that. It's a longer
story for someday if I could ever, you
know, discuss the whole the whole
history. And
>> so it was considered but then it was
kibos.
>> Yes. Thank God. And I know how it was
stopped and I I owe some people a debt
of gratitude literally. And um and this
was just a few weeks after, you know, I
was sent a message and and even after
the meeting um we were finding stuff and
other people were finding stuff um to
let people know that they're being
tracked. And I know this sounds like so
[ __ ] crazy and all that, but
>> Well, so does someone having $40 million
in gold hanging out their house and a
bunch of Rolexes. Never did I think, you
know, I'm a very patriotic guy. I love
serving America. You know, it hurts me
every day not having the uniform
anymore. And knowing that was the level
that they thought about going to because
of this interesting interpretation of
certain standing options. And I and
eventually in this disclosure process, a
lot of that will come out. I just have
to be careful what I say now until, you
know, the the president figures out how
to, you know, release some of this
history, unfortunately. So,
>> understood. Yeah. So, one of the things
that we talked about before, so you were
scheduled for another podcast a while
back, but flights got cancelled when we
moved it today, but you were saying that
it's actually fortuitous that it was
rescheduled.
>> Yeah. A lot of things are happening. I
see the administration getting really
really serious on this and I think
people don't appreciate the courage that
Trump is is is showing right now uh
ordering the government to release
everything we know about this topic.
It'll be
>> courage how so like you think he's in
danger from releasing this information?
>> Not necessarily, but it's it's
um the ontological shock and the history
coming out and sort of the outrage. I
mean, I think it'll be uniting sort of
like in post 911 America after the
towers fell, right? You have the the
fear of dirty bombs and other terrorist
attacks, but you also have this like
uniting uh panacea that kind of brings
people.
>> You think that is equivalent to what's
happening right now?
>> It will be and I think
>> going to happen.
>> So, I believe uh before Trump Trump's
term ends that it's all going to come
out. What does that mean?
>> Everything I've testified about, you
know, the fact that, you know, we've
been studying this for a while. We've
recovered material aka intact
semi-intact craft. We've, you know,
recovered this anomalous intelligence
piloting the craft. And, you know, we
are reverse engineering that. And
obviously, there's other parts to that.
It's very complicated ecosystem. A lot
of people who are just release it all,
show us Indiana Jones warehouse tour
don't appreciate the care that we're
going to have to um proceed with because
this is not a static ecosystem. This
isn't just like archaeology where you're
digging up stuff. There is you are
dealing with you know third parties both
human you know adversarial countries
etc. they have their own program. Then
you have, you know, our this anomalous
intelligence, our visitors, NHI,
whatever you want to call them,
ultraterrestrial, depending on which
taxonomy in the tree that you want to um
ascribe some of this origin to. And and
of course, you know, the the national
security related technology that has
been derived, we've derived great stuff
to defend America. I've had exposure on
that and you know, I'm very
>> re it through back engineering.
>> Yeah.
>> 100%.
>> Yes. Well, some of it it it was
inspiration. It wasn't a a onetoone like
we we we unlocked the iPhone. It was
like, "Huh, that's an interesting
material. Look at that um frequency
selective surface property. You know
what? We could use that for an aerospace
application or whatever." And so, a lot
of it was garnered via inspiration, not
one to one. Yeah. In some cases, I
suppose we did, but like that's been
most of it. Yeah. So what's the holdup
in terms of disclosure?
>> I necessarily can't read the president's
mind. Uh there's certainly a uh
multilateral kind of diplomatic issue. I
mean so we're in this this issue now
where once we cross the Rubicon then we
affect allies and adversaries. You know
our adversaries have programs. What are
they going to tell their citizenry? You
have uh possible theological distress
Vatican etc. And I'm, you know, I'm a
Catholic and I I certainly appreciate
uh the Vatican's long study on this
subject and they just stayed quiet on
what they know. And so it's there's a
lot of like collateral effects if you're
not careful with certain stuff. you you
can you know trigger a response and
there is great fear that uh I don't
necessarily believe in this but like
there has been assessments in the past
that you know revealing certain things
may you know trigger a response from a
third party
>> trigger a response from them from these
>> possibly entities yes and that is a
>> that has been written up uh government
think tanks wrote that up in reports to
previous presidents
>> so the the the theory is that we
disclosed
people are now aware of it all over the
globe and they decide to show
themselves.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think there's a real
fear of like a Ghostbusters moment, I'll
say. And Oh, boy. You know, and
it's one of those things where
I I'm trying to walk the line and be as
diplomatic as possible and also trying
to prepare the populace at the same time
because clearly the government hasn't
right now. And I mean, Trump wants it
out for sure. His team needs to be
astute enough to know what to ask for.
Uh, you know, massage the deep state and
and get that information because we just
saw Tim Bchett on Benny Johnson's
podcast talk about uh Steven Miller
called him and was like, "Hey, I'm
getting blocked like physically blocked
from access to a lot of this stuff."
And, you know, that's very concerning. I
I would say Steven Miller is an alpha
dog. He's a pitbull. And as a fellow
alpha, I do appreciate his
>> That's a silly thing to say. You know
that, right?
>> What?
>> A fellow alpha.
>> Fellow alpha.
>> Opens yourself up to like tremendous
amounts of ridicule.
>> Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, nobody's
perfect and I know everybody has their
faults, but I do appreciate
>> the ferveny. he is attacking the issue
behind the scenes and I just I think he
needs guided the right way and informed
and and kind of how how to cut this
deal. You know, like
>> I met him very briefly at the UFC event
at the White House and he told me that
it's going to come out. I'm like, okay,
>> that's good. Well, there you go.
>> It was really quick.
>> Yeah.
>> Was like he's like, I'm just I know
you're interested in this. This is
literally all we talked about.
>> The UFO thing is going to come out.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, okay, when when's that coming out?
Let's go.
>> Exactly. and and and and Trump
understands the subject pretty good and
you know he's in the know and
he understands some of the implications.
So I like I said he has a lot of courage
because this is likely going to change
society in a big way. I can't necess I'm
not like a social anthropologist or a
psychiatrist like I can't necessarily
predict in what specific ways it might
reduce you know feudal nation state peer
competition and other things. Uh, but it
is going to change and I and I think
when people look back at this interview,
it's gonna be very haunting because I
think in short order, you know, before
Trump leaves office, we're going to be
in a new paradigm. And I'm normally a
very pessimistic, cynical person. A lot
of my friends know that. But I I have
great confidence that the president is
doing the right thing. And I I I feel um
there's eventually going to there the
people that are in charge of this are
going to have to comply with the the
president's order. And uh but there's a
right way of of doing this, I think. And
I, like I said, I'm not some sick of fan
for the deep state. I'm a whistleblower,
obviously. And you know, I have um
philosophical differences about how this
was kept and how they could possibly
reveal stuff. But I I am surprisingly
confident, which is which is kind of
weird for me to say because I just see
the tea leaves. I know Miller's serious.
Um there's other people in government
serious. I mean, even see Aaron Lucas,
the PDDNI, the deputy director of
national intelligence, you know, sign
these big NDA waiverss. It includes like
any kind of waiver of not even telling
the president, sorry, you have to tell
us kind of thing. And and so you you're
seeing kind of the the chess board being
set. I know everybody's not happy with
the tranches coming out with the
lowhanging fruit videos and and
recordings and stuff. And Representative
Burlson and I before I left his office
recently got um a 1952 recording that
was still classified from Blue Book
talking about the seriousness of this
issue and all the crazy [ __ ] that
they're seeing near nuclear sites and
test ranges, which is interesting
because in in uh that video that's been
declassified, it mentions the very sites
that in modern day have that same
anomalous activity to include stuff in
the Southwest. So I can't say where it's
in the ecosystem in the open source, but
the the executive branch hasn't
acknowledged what specific test and
training range. They're seeing crazy
orbs that they can't explain this acost
helicopters and and all that. So
>> um so is Trump experiencing resistance
in your opinion?
>> Yes. Um, and I don't know all the
details, but uh, clearly clearly Miller
has, and a lot of it is, I think, and I
can't read the mind of the deep state,
but as a former deep stater, uh, I would
say that there's always been this kind
of disdain for political appointees and
they don't and members of Congress, like
they don't they don't have the reverence
on this issue. They're going to [ __ ] it
up. They're going to, you know, say
something that they shouldn't have about
a classified program. And um that's why
some classified programs are kept from
Congress. It's called waved programs. Um
and uh the only presidents that were
really really involved were the ones
like HW Bush, right? He was CI director.
He was fully briefed on this issue. A
lot of that lore is true about HW Bush.
Cheney, like I've talked about, fully in
this. He was the mob boss for many
years. He was kind of the head of this
activity. And so I think there's some um
testing of the waters right now. It's
kind of like cat's paw dynamic, like you
know, we'll give you a little bit of
this, a little bit of that, and they're
they're seeing how the administration is
going to potentially roll this out. And
and obviously if the White House wants
my opinion, I'm available. But um I do
trust the president's team hopefully
will be able to handle this. And because
I if Trump doesn't enforce his order and
see this through, I don't think any
other president is going to be able. I
mean I mean regardless of Democrat,
left, right, whatever, like if he
follows through on this, he's going to
be the goat. He's going to be a legend.
And you know, all the other things
people have problems with in his
presidency, Iran, whatever, I think this
will um wipe those out. and this is like
really important for his legacy to
initiate the process before the 28
election. Then there's like a hot
handoff to the next um administration.
And you know, if Trump's a political
animal, he could easily line up a
Republican team on the 28 ticket to
basically, you know, be his continuity
on this, too. I think that'd be very
smart. And
>> so this is going to take a long time to
release. Is that how you're
>> projecting this?
>> That was always the plan back in the
day. I just because it's like an
anestization and climatization process.
It's like, you know, okay, we're gonna
focus on this topic. Everybody's this is
going to get normalized. The temperature
is going to cool and then we're going to
bring in this shocking thing.
>> So, there's a there's a schedule like in
terms of like the psychological impact
on the populace.
>> There was in the past in terms of
certain um government think tanks wrote
classified assessments for uh previous
presidents on this. I don't know what
the current plan is. I'm just uh I'm
currently literally a private citizen
right now. But if they're going to do
what they did in the past, it is
>> and the slow roll out has its pluses and
minuses. Like I would say due to human
factors, risks of adversarial countries
getting ahead of us, other
whistleblowers, whatever. You probably
have to roll this out in at least like
12 months and whatnot. But we're in a
precarious time if the administration
doesn't start because uh China and
Russia could take advantage of this
moment now. Our weakness, you know,
China has their famous uh belt and road
initiative. Uh China has admitted
publicly that they have a UAP task
force. Obviously, they have more than
that behind the scenes. And they
actually announced that when the DoD UAP
task force was announced, you can find a
news article from June 2020 in the South
China Morning Post where they talk about
they're analyzing these encounters.
They're using AI, etc. So,
>> do you feel that China has or do you
know if China has these crashed vehicles
as well?
>> There's parallel programs.
>> There's parallel programs. Now, one of
the things that Diana Pulka said when
and and Gary Nolan refers to in the same
way as well, they they refer to them as
donations.
>> Yeah, that's what's really interesting
is I am aware of certain historical
retrieval rules where they were like
perfectly landed and it wasn't like a
crash and what is what's going on there?
I'm sure we've done a deep assessment. I
never had access to that kind of
information. I'm sure that we understand
why that happened at some level, but
that is true that that's actually
happened.
>> So the theory is that they want us to
find these things so that we can examine
the technology and perhaps work from it,
>> like engineer it or like you were saying
before, gain inspiration to try new
>> Yeah. I mean, part of it's like throw in
the gorilla banana, see if it can peel
it. But also, the the more skeptical
intel officer in me is like, is this a
Trojan horse? Do you want us to uh
figure things out and then get then get
addicted to certain type of technology
and then that creates a control loop uh
where they start handling us whether we
need raw resources to maintain a certain
technology or as in this intelligence
whatever this is this nonhuman
intelligence
>> right so if if it is a if it is a
donation do you feel like this donation
is evenly distributed amongst world
powers.
>> You know, I do not know the the the
statistical distribution. That's very
interesting. I I never understood the
total number of retrievalss in um other
countries participated in.
>> Well, there's supposed to be quite a few
in the United States.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's for sure. I
don't know the answer to that actually.
I'm sure there's a statistical analysis
that'll come out in this process. You
know,
>> do you think there's any shared
information between these governments?
Do you think they communicate?
>> There is a a gentleman's agreement. Uh
the the top layer of it I can talk
about, and I've talked about it
previously, so it's not um anything
super new. If you look at the accident
measures agreement of 1971, which which
is the short title of this god-awfully
long title treaty that was signed in
September 1971,
you'll see article three of the treaty
talks about UAP. And hey, if you see any
unidentified objects around your nuclear
or critical critical comms facilities,
please call us, bro. And that was
between the USSR in America. And then uh
in 2013, the classified annex of that
treaty got declassified. You can find it
online at George Washington University
National Security Archives, but it gives
the nuke flash like the red line like
code to say it was like Adam222, Adam
333, and that's all declassified. and he
would send that to the the Kremlin like
hey uh we see [ __ ] weird [ __ ] around
uh plac uh it's not us it's not a false
flag and vice versa and so there was a
redline comms for UAP activity between u
Russia and the US and of course Russia
and US during the Cold War had a mutual
notification treaty for space launch
vehicle and ICBM launches etc. Weirdly
enough, we've never had that with China.
Even to this day, we don't have a
mutual, this is crazy. We don't have a
mutual notification. If they're going to
do like a a sub submarine launched
ballistic missile test out of, you know,
off their coast, they're not obligated
by treaty to tell us. So, and sometimes
they don't with certain national
security activities. and and so uh
Northern Command, NORAD, Missile Warning
Center, other other places, uh NSA,
DefMAC and Laurel, Maryland have to be
on their agame to like make sure it was
like a test because the Chinese aren't
obligated to tell us. And I um a crazy
story in that regard. The Indians did
something like that to us. I was on duty
in the NRO operations center. And by the
way, I got this clear through security,
so you know, NRO, don't shank me. Um uh
basically there was an unexpected
Indian uh missile test that hit one of
their satellites in 2019. I think it was
like March of 2019.
>> One of our satellites.
>> Oh no, not our uh one of their uh
weather. Yeah. Their own defunct weather
satellite and
>> on purpose or an accident?
>> On purpose. And
>> they shot down one of their own
satellites
>> and they didn't tell us. I remember in
my office at like all these different
phones. I'm like calling the embassy all
this. I'm like what the [ __ ] you know,
and because we were worried at the NRO
about the debris because we fly space,
you know, spy satellites. That's the
mission of the National Reconnaissance
Office and I was the backup director of
intelligence as a reser at the
operations center where I was, you know,
also handling the PDB for the director
and I, you know, led the director's
briefing team and, you know, I'm like
going to the orbital analysts on the
watch floor with all the crazy screens
like calculate the the the debris field,
you know, let me know if we have to
maneuver something and blah blah blah.
I'm like running up to the director's
office in my uniform, you know, out of
breath. I'm like, "Holy shit." You know,
um, and it was kind of a big deal. And
that's publicly, you know, you can
Google that now. And, um, I remember
when that went down, it was pretty
crazy. So,
>> that sounds completely insane.
>> Yeah.
>> So, are there other countries besides
China, Russia, and US that supposedly
have access to these vehicles?
>> Yeah.
>> Which other countries can you say? that
I don't want to get into cuz that gets
into some sensitive stuff,
>> right? Um, supposedly this is like one
of the best legends that there's a a
craft that's so large they couldn't move
it so they had to make a building around
it and it's supposedly in Korea.
>> A legend?
>> I don't know.
>> Oh, yeah. You do know. How dare you?
But if you heard you've heard that
rumor, I'm sure online.
>> I've heard that rumor online. Yeah.
>> Yeah. You don't know anything about
that?
>> Yeah. We'll let the federal government.
Do you have any personal experience with
any of this stuff?
>> You know, it's funny you asked that. I,
as far as I can remember, I have no
experience with the phenomenon. Like a
lot of a lot of people in this, I guess,
ufology or whatever you want to call it,
they have that personal experience like,
oh yeah, when I was a kid, I saw an orb
or whatever. And
>> I have zero. I've seen a couple
interesting things in the sky that, you
know, could have been satellite passes.
I've been an amateur astronomer besides
having a physics degree. I've been an
amateur astronomer since like I was like
in middle school like 12 13 years old
and and I still have never seen anything
in my personal life uh in a stupendous
nature. I've never had any kind of
spooky woo stuff happen
>> never been visited.
>> No. and and and that's why like I was
open to this you know I'm a child of the
80 well I grew up at I was born in the
80s you know most of my childhood was in
the 90s and you know I watched XFiles
and Star Trek Next Gen and of course I'm
like you know I'm a precocious teen
reading like brief history time and you
know Isaac Azimov and I'm learning about
the Draco equation I'm like there's
probably life but who knows and I'm I'm
open to it and then you know when I got
in into the intelligence community
that's like the first thing I looked up
like on the I'm like on the computer.
I'm like I go on to a certain database.
I'm like type it in Area 51, you know,
UFOs. Like everybody's done that who's
who's gone through intel school whether
they admit it or not. And of course, I
didn't see anything or anything.
>> Um the only thing I bumped into early in
my career in like 2009, I remember
reading the OSAP uh the Defense
Intelligence reference documents, the
DIDs, and at the time I had no idea what
they were doing. And turns out it was
obviously UAP related, but I was reading
why why is the DIA looking into magneto
hydrodnamic propulsion and uh cloaking
and all all this other stuff. And of
course I find out later what it was, but
I had absolutely no uh personal
experience and even professionally
uh for most of my career. Now I found
out behind the scenes later like, "Oh,
you remember that top secret program
you're working on, Dave? you were
actually uh looking for UAP and you
didn't know it. I'm like what? And and
of course, you know, I find out and I
learn about, you know, how they hid all
this infrastructure and they used a lot
of conventional national security
intelligence collection architecture to
basically facilitate this crash
retrieval program, which makes sense
because they're not going to reinvent
the wheel and, you know, totally have a
separate infrastructure to use to like
figure out if stuff crashed, activity,
etc., right? And um you know early I
would say
about 10 years into my career I remember
some imagery analysts saying hey Dave
you know like uh they told us to
airbrush some stuff out of photos and
stuff and it was round and I'm like okay
dude well maybe that's something you're
not clear to or whatever. And I do
remember that and I had some suspicious
recruitment earlier in my career too. I
was on some really sensitive stuff that
I ended up finding out it was um
directly adjacent to the program and I
went through this whole like smoking man
recruitment thing for a year and you
know was told I was going to get these
kind of bizarre accesses and I'm like
what are you talking about and
ultimately I was never recruited and I
kind of just like put filed that in the
back of my brain for years but like I've
said uh you know before it wasn't until
like spring of 2017 I was at the CIA
briefing um the deputy director staff on
a bunch of DoD classified programs and
the chief of um a very sensitive office
at the agency pulled me aside and was
like, "Dave, what what do you know about
UFOs? Like uh I hear there's like a
program at the Pentagon and all that."
And and and I'm like, "I don't know."
Like I'm briefed almost every DoD
program at the time by the way and
hundreds of of of programs in the
intelligence community because I was in
a position of very high trust and I you
know I'm very patriotic and I'm very
humbled that I was in a position like
that in my 30s and and I didn't think
anything of it until until this this
subject got more popularized people went
public you know Tom Dong TTSA and all
that and and and then I was
professionally interested but not really
working on it in 2018 and then early in
19 is when I got brought on as the NRO
rep to the the then Navy task force
which became the DoD's, you know, UAP
task force. That's kind of my origin
story. And and so I was always I'm
always been curious, but I never saw
evidence and I never had any personal
experience with the phenomenon that kind
of kind of colors my uh judgment on
this, I guess. So,
>> so I'm sure you're aware of how put off
when he was uh tasked by the Bush
administration along with a bunch of
other thinkers to try to come up with
pros and cons for disclosure.
>> Yeah, I knew some other people in that
meeting and I verified that meeting took
place and even even Arrow admitted in
their volume one report which was
horrible. Well, that's a long story.
Painful. Uh, that it it took place, but
it was just a hypothetical scenario at a
a fedally funded research and
development center in Northern Virginia.
>> What year was this?
>> 2004. It was like November of 2004. And
it's like, but why was it hypothetical
if it's not real? Nobody explains that.
And obviously the story is, you know,
Steve Hadley, who was the national
security adviser, uh, sponsored it. You
know, I I believe Hadley denies it, but
you know, who knows if Steve would uh
you know, tell the truth on that just
because of the sensitivity. So,
>> and so for people that don't know what
happened, supposedly they brought in a
bunch of different thought leaders and
they gave them uh a pro and a con side,
like what would be negatively affected
by disclosure, what would be positively
affected by disclosure, and attached a
numerical value to each group.
>> Correct. They had like a computer system
there that like tabulated everything
from what I know talking to other
attendees
>> and virtually every one of them had more
negative than positive and so the
decision was made to not disclose.
>> Well, yeah. And in the main decision, if
I remember correctly was the federal
contracts fraud. Well, that could be
debated in, you know, the Supreme Court.
But uh they realized a lot of and so
this is another issue of disclosure
besides the onlogical thought shock and
people can't handling it and like
>> misappropriation of funds.
>> Yeah. And misappropriation of funds and
all that. It's oh so these set of
contractors got sole source contracts
and exclusive access to this for
internal research and development where
they figure out something then sell it
back to the government etc. for all
these decades. What about my mid-level
small business and my contractor and
blah blah blah. And so you're going to
they were afraid that you would see
legal challenges going to the Supreme
Court in violation of what they call the
DEFARS, right? The defense federal
acquisition regulations,
>> right?
>> And the the government would be liable
for who [ __ ] knows billions of
dollars worth of monies that they spent
on this to these contractor partners
that got in back in the day and like,
well, we're not exposing any more
people. We're locking it down. and what
they call a JNA, justification and
approval for a soul source contract.
This is a reason national security like
we can't expose any more people to this.
And of course that also causes a brain
drain and group think and and actually
hurts the defense uh industrial base.
But that was the main reason. It wasn't
oh uh you know upcoming millennials that
are turning 18 can't handle it. It was
like yeah we're we're kind of culpable
and kind of a [ __ ] up contractual
relationship. And and that's going to be
something that the the Trump
administration is going to have to deal
with. It's like, well, how do I reorient
the defense and industrial base? I mean,
this could trigger a golden era of
innovation in America. More people get
to play. You overtly can take the basic
information that's not sensitive um and
put it into academia, right? So, you
have undergraduate, graduate, post-doal
programs, and you actually create this
like more educated workforce to actually
benefit national security. But, and and
China doesn't have this issue. They're
they're pulling people from pick a
university in China, Nanjing, whatever
university, and they're sucking them
into these programs and but in America,
we don't have that kind of permissive
totalitarian environment. So,
>> well, in China, they probably don't have
the issue with misappropriation of funds
and lying to Congress.
>> No, CCP, baby. You know, do whatever you
want.
>> They do whatever they want. So, they
don't have to worry about liability. So,
this is one of the things that came up
in that film, Age of Disclosure, is that
you're going to have to make some sort
of a amnesty program.
>> Yeah. And I'm I am for that as long it's
like use immunity for specific uh
testimony or
>> as long as it doesn't cover like this
other [ __ ] you're talking about.
>> Like my and of course I know who's
watching people clearly that are from
this ecosystem. Um, you know, I would,
you know, expect that like everybody's
been basically good Americans. There's a
small cast of characters that have done
unspeakable things. I mean, how they
wanted to [ __ ] kill me. This is like
it's disturbing and and you wonder why I
had to become a whistleblower. I didn't
want to do this [ __ ] but like I was
pushed over the edge uh to do that, you
know? I digress. But like besides like
bluecollar really [ __ ] up criminal
shits, which you know, once again, there
is a judicial justice process in
America, you know, we're not going to do
street justice here. We will, you know,
take care of that professionally. Um,
like I took care of the other criminal
stuff I found out professionally. I'm
like, look, I'm, you know, and and and
when I was doing that, I mean, I was
meeting people body armor armed with
colleagues of mine that were, you know,
rolling heavy, too. And like it was a
very serious part of my investigation.
But yeah, I I believe in amnesty, but I
I think we need to do it like a truth
and reconciliation commission, which was
in post-apartid South Africa in the 90s
where you had um you know, some white
farmer comes in, it's like, yeah, I
murdered a bunch of black people or
whatever, you know, and it's like, okay,
thank you for telling us that. You're
good. You know, don't do it again and
move on. I'm I mean, I'm distilling it
down, but that's essentially what the
TRC in South Africa was. And I think
something like that would be very
additive and good because I mean I have
friends that run the program. They're
they're great guys. They're bros you
know and gals and um they you know were
signed paperwork you know it was like if
you you know divulge this it's under
penalty of treason you go to Levvenworth
or you know capital punishment.
>> And yeah
>> let's break down what you know.
>> Yeah
>> and what you can say.
>> Yeah. What are these things and what are
they capable of?
>> So,
uh, there's like physical and
non-physical, call it UAP and
intelligence we're likely dealing with.
So, for example, the orbs, could that be
sentient plasmoid? Possibly
>> sentient plasmoid. So, plasma that has
consciousness.
>> Yeah. in some way and that could be like
you're seeing the other side of some
sort of wormhole and it's some other
intelligence shooting this like I'll
call it like plasmoidic probe into you
know our existence I mean there's this
is of course a theoretical framework and
once again I don't have a PhD in
>> but it's theoretical that there is a
life form that is a plasmabased life
form
>> and there's already papers on the open
internet about this a couple years ago
what's the title of the the paper they
wrote about this possibility so this is
a um academic assessment of a
possibility of the orbs. Now, could the
orbs actually be physical craft, but
they have a sheath of plasma around it?
Interestingly enough, and OAP did a
defense intelligence reference document
on magneto hydrodnamic propulsion, um
which if you remember the the movie The
Hunt for Red October,
>> that's the Caterpillar Drive on the
Russian submarine, you know, back in the
day. Uh and of course uh with MHD you
can also do it you have to use a
conductive fluid um either salt seawater
that has salt in it or uh you could do
it in the air but you have to create a
plasma and you steer the plasma with
it's called the lorren force it's it's
basically have a perpendicular magnetic
field large amount electricity and you
can basically through the lorren force
which is like ionic propulsion sort of
um uh control it in the in the
atmosphere as well and you can you know
read papers on that and I e and and
other stuff like that and so one of the
byproducts of an air breathing MHD
system is plasma around it. So depending
on the size of the orb um it is
conceivable that there's a physical
craft behind it as well just by as an
artifact of the propulsion system. Uh
once again that's a a theory. I'm sure
the program knows and that will be
communicated at a later date but like
you know that's Yeah.
>> So this theory about sentient plasma
>> Yeah.
>> is it the idea that we have a very
narrow-minded view of what life can be
>> and that life as it evolved in other
places in other parts of the universe
>> went noncroporeal at some point like the
the meat suit sucks. We're going to
>> right
>> be an energetic
>> like this is an ultimate expression of
both technology and at least enhanced
evolution that eventually consciousness
is isolated or consciousness may be
ubiquitous and exists in everything
anyway and that yeah
>> yeah certainly and I'm not the the
expert in I would say the the
consciousness theory I like the Penrose
Hamarov orc O theory which is the
microtubules the room temperature So
microtubules are in neurons of the brain
and you have this like room temperature
quantum system that can collapse the
wave function without an observer and
that's what Roger Penrose and Stuart
Hamarov and I've talked to Hamarov crazy
smart guy um he's an anesthesiologist by
training and Penrose obviously is a very
famous mathematician and uh physics
legend and uh that's how they view
consciousness. I'm not saying that's the
exact model. I happen to prefer it
because it's very trippy and very
interesting and does explain spooky
action and like um telepathy because oh
well if it's just a quantum system then
I'm like quantumly entangled. Oh that
makes sense now like why remote viewing
and other stuff works right.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So you have some sort of
plasabased intelligence.
>> Yeah.
>> And then what else?
So obviously there has been the physical
craft of all different flavors like I've
talked about it. You know the tic tacs
are real. There's eggs. There's
different types of discs. There's boot
heels sunfish looking things. Um uh
boomerangs crescent moon looking uh
craft as well. And obviously
all those have different
um origins in terms of pilots and
whatnot. There's a there's a little bit
of overlap. It's almost like uh certain
people like the Porsche 911 or Ford
Mustang. They they kind of build the
same shape and that's probably
indicative of the technology or the
propulsion system.
>> I'm not an expert in exactly why that
is. And yeah, we've recovered, you know,
sever several different types and it's a
it's once again it's a taxonomy where
it's almost like like not all white
people look the same, right? same idea
where you might have like a species per
se but then there's sort of like subsets
right
>> now
is there a theory or is there
information based on where these things
are from and that there different ones
are from different places
>> there is but I never got access to that
and even if the information was once
again how would you like um confirm that
as a skeptical former uh human intg ence
officer, you have some sort of NHI
communicating to you, oh, I'm from star
system X, Y, and Z. Right?
>> Cool. Is that denial and deception, you
know, activities? Are you misdirecting?
You're from somewhere else. So,
>> uh, even if they said they told us, how
would you verify that? I mean, there's
certainly obviously ways
>> and but some of it seems once again
extraterrestrial is part of the pie
here, right? There's a, you know,
there's ultraterrestrial and other
things. And I it does seem like a lot of
it's been here for a while and also
seems so similar to us that I have
questions. And once again, this isn't
rhetorical. I don't know the answer.
It's like, well, is this bio-engineered?
Is this uh a break from our tree? Is
this um some sort of other technology?
Uh like chameleon type technology, if
you will. I don't I don't know the
answer to that. So I I think that's
>> what are the prevailing theories amongst
the people that are working on this
though.
>> Yeah. So
>> like do they have answers or do they
just have theories?
>> I am not certain of that because I do
not have that level of knowledge and as
the government rolls that out I'm happy
to you know parse that with the American
people in public and kind of explain my
opinion on things as gaps and
information for myself is filled in
because I'm not omnipotent. I didn't
have full access and I only know what I
know. And that's why I've I've treated
this with such reverence because even me
going public, I'm like, [ __ ] I don't
know what this is going to trigger
besides my own personal safety, which
clearly I was under duress and and I had
to even resign my Air Force Commission.
Didn't even fully retire and I'm trying
to get that fixed. I, you know, filed
something with the Air Force board a
year ago so I can actually retire and
have my benefits because I, you know, I
miss my promotional lieutenant colonel
and other stuff. But um I digress. But
certainly
there is such similarity that there was
a concern and uh from a genomic
perspective and there was work on that
to compare genomes. Unfortunately, I
don't know the answer to that and what
they found out
>> work to compare genomes from biological
samples.
>> Uh yeah, dead cadaavvers. Yeah.
>> So that's real.
>> Oh, 100%. Yeah.
>> So there are
>> Oh yeah, I know that for sure. you. How
do you know that for sure?
>> I got to see the audio visual on that
side.
>> You got to see what?
>> Yeah. So, I got to be a little vague
only because I want to protect the
sources because it may indicate a
specific activity or operation and these
people were very patriotic and um they
were just dead cadaavvers in you know on
the ground because it was a retrieval
activity. Yeah.
>> You saw them physically or you saw video
of them?
>> Video.
>> Video.
>> Yeah. So you saw a dead cadaavver that
was at a crash.
>> Yes.
>> So they filmed the crash and they filmed
these cadaavvers.
>> Yeah.
>> How old is this footage?
>> Uh I don't want to say. Okay.
>> It's contemporary, but I
>> It's contemporary.
>> Yeah. But I don't want to reveal a
particular operation because it narrows
it down.
>> But it's clear. It's not like you're
looking 1950s black and white. It's
clear. And do know, you know, when I get
that kind of information, you know, I'm
like, okay, tell me what it is, what
what happened, and then I put it out for
collection, so to speak, and then I
confirm it independently because I was
very uh allergic to any kind of
deception, right? Like in the in the
advent of AI, Sora AI, you can you can
create a very realistic and so I was
very anal retentive when I was given
documents, audiovisisual, etc. And I sat
on that stuff for like years until I
felt comfortable with that not being
some sort of limited hangout or
deception activity. So yeah.
>> What did it look like?
>> Human looking.
>> How human?
>> Very
>> like like looked like a human or looked
similar to a human.
>> Very
very beautiful. And
>> beautiful.
>> It and I I said
>> what color was the skin?
>> Uh bluish white and super close. No, no,
no, no, no. It like
>> like someone who drowned
>> like a pale sort of albino and
>> and it's interesting and I said this in
another interview that's not out yet,
but and and God willing this is my last
interview for a while hopefully in
pre-disclosure environment, you know,
and uh General McCaslin when he was
talking to Dong and this is public
record. Tom's talked about it on I think
your show and other interviews where he
always told Tom think of the Greek gods
and and Oh, true. you look it up and and
now I kind of understand what he meant.
But General McCaslin, who disappeared
within a week of Trump giving the the
declassification order on UAP in
February 2026, there's a lot of reasons
why uh Mccasin's disappearance uh
>> disappeared. Um he walked out of his
residence in Albuquerque and vanished.
>> Oh, that's right. That guy. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And nobody knows. And I, you know,
I have a relationship obviously with
Justice and
nobody knows what [ __ ] happened to
the guy.
>> And he like he left [ __ ] home so he
couldn't be tracked. I think his phone
was left but you know one of his
firearms was missing. It's like very
weird. So
>> Right. He left without his phone.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That was one of the weird parts
about it.
>> Yeah. And and once again he was going on
a trip with like 18 of his friends. He
went to REI the day before to get like a
medical kit and other supplies and I
mean obviously his wife's
discussion about him the body cam
footage is public and you know he had
some mental health issues nothing major
and and um some aging type issues but
she didn't think you know he was going
to like kill himself or whatever. So, I
mean, you never know. And I've had
friends unfortunately uh pass away
through suicide in the military, but
it's very bizarre and it's when within a
week of Trump that coming out and um
>> just say I know a lot about General
McCass.
>> Well, there's quite a few scientists
that were connected to UF UAP disclosure
or UAP potential back engineering
projects or mysterious projects
>> possibly. I think
>> do you think there was more like
>> to be fair was a little overblown and I
don't think there was a ton of
correlation like one was like a female
that worked at Air Force Research Lab
when Macccasin was a commander. I think
that was one of Well, I mean there's a
lot of people that work at Air Force
Research Lab. That doesn't mean it's
necessarily related to the topic. I the
only one
>> didn't she have did didn't that one
particular lady if it's the same person
didn't she have some sort of research
that was on material science?
>> That sounds correct. I'm not totally
conversant on all the people that
disappeared. The only one besides Maslin
that was very concerning to me was my
Air Force friend that um died
mysteriously about two years ago. And
it's an open investigation, so I won't
get into all the gory detail of my
assessments. Um it I mean it's binary.
It's either a very tragic thing, either
self harm or otherwise, or it was
something else. and my friend uh his
name's Matthew Sullivan calls sign quake
in the air force him and I were on
active duty together uh he was on the
program and he was uh one of my sources
and I and I once again I don't name
people but like he unfortunately has
passed so I want to make that clear
>> this video do you think this will be a
part of disclosure that we'll get to see
this video of these dead bodies
>> probably
so there's a there's a lot audiovisisual
stuff. The problem with the the with the
the current climate, like you're going
to have to wheel out the physical
evidence, too, cuz people are the trust
in government is so low right now. Like
you you could show a video, but people
are going to be like, "Oh, well that's
just the US government [ __ ] with us,
and you're going to have to
>> curate a wheel out literally like, you
know, put it in the Uvar Hazy Center,
the Smithsonian, and then give the
biological samples to Eric Weinstein,
who I know he wants it." And
>> why would you give it to him? Well, he
says he has people that test it. Um,
>> I have people that test it, too.
>> Yeah, but give it to me.
>> I'm just I'm just saying that
>> it's all ridiculous and give it to who?
There should be a way that human beings
uh other than the government can look at
this stuff.
>> Well, there needs to be an independent
process. Yeah.
>> Right now, is this stuff
>> So, this is contemporary this this dead
body thing.
>> And so, this is a fairly recent crash.
>> Mhm. And did these things have all the
characteristics of a human being? Did
they have ears? And
>> as far as I could recall, and it wasn't
like all they have close up. Oh, yeah.
>> They had hair. What color was the hair?
>> It was like grayish and all that. It was
The problem is I don't give the nature
of the the video. It wasn't super close
up. It was like,
>> of course not
>> during the operation. So, it's not like
>> during the operation of retrieval.
>> Yeah. Okay. And then they they had these
things. So what is your understanding of
what happens to these bodies?
>> Oh, they're kept for analysis. And
>> how do they keep them? They freeze them.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I don't know the exact process.
I'm not a biologist, but they do put it
in some sort of preservation status. So
>> Huh.
>> Yeah.
>> So was that the most compelling thing
you saw?
Yes, because you know it couples with
you know both the the craft and the
alleged you know occupants and you there
was some other stuff in that in that
area that I got to be careful talking
about because it's so specific that
it'll easily ID the you know the patriot
that helped me on that.
>> Um and once again I want the public to
see all this stuff and I you don't take
my word for it. Plead with the president
to make sure this comes out. He's really
courageous to do so and I just I hope
this all comes out.
>> When you say contemporary, you mean last
20 years, more recent?
>> I don't even want to characterize it,
but it's it's contemporary.
>> And when you say Greek gods, like do
these these creatures actually look like
something special, like not just like a
regular person. You said beautiful.
>> Yeah. Just very oddly it and it's been a
while and but I'm just trying to
visualize in my mind. It was just very
very beautiful. It was just
>> Were they wearing an outfit?
>> Uh, it looked like it like some kind of
form fitting thing, but I didn't get a
good look at it.
>> Spandex?
>> I don't know. I didn't get a good look
at it, honestly.
>> You didn't?
>> No. I mean, it was like a a pan. So,
>> okay. So, they didn't even focus on the
bodies. They just like, "Oh, there's a
body of there." You know, people had a
job to do,
>> right? Did you worry that that that's a
scop that you're being shown something
that's horseshit? Well, like I said, I
was very careful with that and confirmed
it through other sources and methods to
make sure it wasn't some sort of hangout
from some government element trying to
sway me one way or the other. And
>> so, you independently verified that
there was an event.
>> Yeah, I did.
>> Okay. And then there's footage of this
event. And in this footage of this
event, how many bodies were there?
>> I think three or four is what I saw. I
don't know what the total was.
>> Did they have gender?
>> Um, looked amorphous to me, but once
again, it was a pan. Really? It wasn't.
Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Long hair, short hair,
>> long.
>> All of them.
>> Yeah.
>> Hm.
>> That I could recall. Yeah.
>> The Greek gods thing is very weird.
>> It's weird. And
>> it's a weird comparison. Like you stop
and think about that. Yeah. Well, why
were the Greek gods
>> so beautiful?
>> It's funny you say that cuz like I think
about like breakaway human. I mean, once
again, I'm just I'm just
>> or maybe even an original civilization
that existed before.
>> Yeah. There's more people are leaning in
that direction when they start looking
at some of the stuff that's underneath
the pyramids and some of the weird
structures that they're finding all over
the earth. Like how how are these
things? We had a whole podcast yesterday
about it. It's like how are these things
made? Who made these things? Like what?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously I I follow
Graham Hancock and Randle Carlson just,
you know, casually and
>> and I do have um not fears, but uh you
know, I have questions about some sort
of breakaway human civilization and that
explains some of this or it's
bio-engineered because like for them to
develop naturally say off planet say
it's extraterrestrial that it looks
almost dead ringer like us like that
doesn't make any sense to me.
>> Well, does it make sense? If we're
engineered, then it makes sense. So,
>> that is that is certainly a possibility.
You know, I have questions about that,
too.
>> This is a this is what Bob Lazar
believes. I had a long conversation with
him about that. He thinks that human
beings are a product of genetic some
sort of manipulation.
>> And I think hypothetically, if that
ended up being verified in some way,
shape, or form, you know, how how does
that change humanity? What does it mean
to be human? And I I think there's a lot
of deep human sovereignty and other
questions uh on that if that ends up
being the case.
>> Well, it gets weird because we're
willing to believe that an omnipotent
god created us out of nothing. That's
cool. But the idea that we were visited
by what's essentially almost godlike in
their powers and abilities, some
creature from somewhere else or some
being, some super hyper intelligent
being from somewhere else
>> and they manipulated us. That bothers
us. I know. And I weird. My biggest
regret was not getting access to like
the biological assessment reports and
stuff like that. I was getting enough
spears thrown my way and I was, you
know, in literal danger. So, I
unfortunately wasn't able to kind of,
you know, um, get access to that stuff.
>> Have you talked to anybody who did get
access to it?
>> Um,
not on that side of the program in terms
of like the scientists analyzing the
bodies. No. I just I know people that
are good friends of mine that were on
retrievalss and saw them as well in
person. And once again, I'm like
comparing like did did you it look like
this? It look like this? Did this
happen? Was it this type of craft?
>> Do they vary in terms of what they saw?
>> Yes. And uh some of my colleagues saw
them alive as well.
>> Yeah.
>> What did they see alive? Like the Greek
god looking ones?
>> Uh no. Uh it's
the pop culture. I can't believe I want
to talk about this. Uh the pop culture
>> uh reptilian looking
>> reptilian
>> the the grays yes as well those are real
once again the aerial school phenomenon
in 1994 very well documented mass
sighting what does it
>> is that Zimbabwe
>> yeah near a uranium mine
>> and they saw small gray beings coming
out of a lenticular disc craft once
again this is why it's almost like not
that shocking it's like yeah they look
like that no [ __ ]
>> well that story has been going on for a
long time and that iconic. The problem
with like iconic imagery is that now you
have it in your head what to expect and
like that was like from the movie
Contact. Remember the movie Contact?
Like it showed itself.
>> Great movie. Great movie. I know my boy
Amomar, I got him hooked on that movie.
He watches it like every quarter.
>> It's a phenomenal movie.
>> But there's a scene in the movie where
the alien shows itself as Jodie Foster's
dad. I know because it's something that
she can handle
>> and that's what it's funny you say that
that's what if they're bio-engineered
then that makes sense because of that
ease of contact ease of communication
also less onlogically shocking it's
familiar
>> right
>> and and I think as this rolls out I
think the American people need to think
about like okay well if you know I'm
presented with this reality how would I
react you know I I just think of them
personally as like it's like my West
Virginia cousins you know it's like
different part of the family you But but
I'm cool with them. And uh
>> that's a [ __ ]
>> I'll I'll chill with them, you know,
whatever. And hey, I'm a nerd. Like do
you know how bad I want to just like
hang out with them?
>> Oh yeah, me too.
>> Like not that I have like uh personal
bias for President Trump to do this, but
like just like any American, I like I
want to know more.
>> Of course,
>> I want to meet them. I want to
communicate. Well, I think it's just
it's wrong for some people to have
access to this information because this
I think this is different than any other
kind of secret information.
>> I think it's weight and its significance
and impact on the human race in general.
I I mean I demand I I want we should
know you shouldn't there shouldn't be a
group of unelected bureaucrats and
defense contractors that have access to
this stuff and the general public
doesn't. So they have a completely
different map of the world than we do.
>> I know and I just think about the
unfortunate lies and how society has
progressed over the last several decades
and where we could have been if this was
handled back in the ' 50s60s and 70s.
Right. And once again, it shouldn't even
be me doing this. Like, I saw a little
bit of crazy [ __ ] I learned some stuff.
I met with some of the most senior
people in government to confirm all
this, you know, at the highest highest
highest level. And um it's me like I'm
just a dude like I'm I was a, you know,
major in the Air Force and, you know,
mid-level senior civilian in the IC. But
unfortunately,
I got stuck with this and it wouldn't
have happened unless this small crew,
you know, honestly pushed me over the
edge and, you know, I I was in
unbelievable duress and I ended up
having to go public. So
>> So tell me more about these reptilians
that your friend encountered. They were
alive.
>> Yeah.
>> So they were alive post crash.
>> Yes.
>> Why do these things keep [ __ ]
crashing?
>> So some of it is um NHI versus NHI.
wides.
>> Yeah,
>> they war in the skies. Isn't that in the
>> You think it's like would they get
along? They're so advanced. But uh the
we have records of them [ __ ] around
with each other.
>> Is that in the Mahabarata or the
Bavagita? There's there's like talk
about sky wars in ancient Hindu text.
>> Vid Oh yeah, in the Vidic text, the blue
people. And I know that's why you asked
blue. I don't recall them being that
blue, but you know, right?
>> I got a short little look unlike
>> Yeah, when they're alive, they're
darker.
>> Well, that is true. There's like a
post-mortem change in their like people.
That's what happens with people.
>> That that is true cuz you know, as they
were struggling and then died, obviously
their affect changed and [ __ ] So,
>> this friend that encountered first of
all the we'll go to the the Greek god
people first. Yeah. What did their craft
look like?
>> Uh, boomerang, crescent moon, usually.
Not all the time. It's kind of like once
I go back, some people like to drive the
Porsche 911. Uh, that tends to be not
all the time, but uh that's what they
like to roll up in.
>> They they they talk about them as the
tall whites.
>> Yeah.
>> You hear that? Were they tall? Were they
large?
>> They look tall to me. I didn't have
>> hard to tell because you don't
>> I didn't have a ground reference really.
I would say at least
human size. They could be
>> very similar to human size.
>> Yeah, they could be my big ass is 66,
but like the
>> they looked big um
>> similar to humans,
>> I think. So, and there might be taller
once again. I'm sure there's other stuff
I don't know about. I'm sure there's
other variants of them too that look
more towards like the classic um
>> what is it in eufology? like Nordic or,
you know, tall whites
>> and that are probably even taller. If
some of those uh experiences are true,
which once again, as long as that source
is credible, that might be a thing. So,
I think we need to be prepared to kind
of
>> that being a thing. I don't know.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Now, the reptilian craft, what did that
thing look like?
>> Uh, that one is tic tac looking.
>> Uhoh.
>> Yeah.
>> I was hoping they were the cool ones.
Yeah. The reptilian ones are the ones
that everyone's terrified of.
>> Yeah. And and once again, like we're
we're doing like and of course it's not
always a tic tac. Once again, kind of
like what I said, but like that tends to
be them.
>> Um from what I understand, obviously,
hopefully I'm not wrong, but I'm, you
know, pretty good sourcing on that.
>> When you see like um malevolent
behavior, right, it's like, well, that's
a humanistic lens. You're seeing like a
animal lash out in captiv captivity kind
of thing. Or they're in duress. they're
having an emotional experience, etc. And
it's like, you know, are they actually
scary or is it just because of the
situations we've been in with them? And
so what kind of bias and and all that?
So,
>> of course.
>> Yeah.
>> And so these reptilians, what did they
look like?
>> Now, I've never seen them in person.
Your friend described as
>> it's like very almost like um 7 foot
tall plus uh sort of gorilla looking
skin.
>> Gorilla looking, scaly skin though,
reptile gorillas. But there's multiple
types. There's ones that are are more
humanoid looking. So
>> there's multiple types of reptilians.
>> Yeah. And I'm not an expert on that one.
That's once again I never saw it in
person to get the exact uh you know.
>> See if there's a artist rendition.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Chris you are.
>> Yeah. And once again it it sounds it
sounds so skitso like even for me
>> gorilla with scales.
>> Ex deep state intel officer. I'm like, I
cannot [ __ ] believe I'm talking about
this [ __ ] on Joe Rogan.
>> Scare scaly gorilla.
>> I know. And I mean, it sounds skitso.
And it's like coming from somebody like
me, you know, who, you know, is a
credible person and has been in
government. It's like,
>> I'm going to be that guy. I'm going to
be that guy. And then like down the road
people will review Joe Rogan and he's
like that [ __ ] We thought he
was crazy, but
>> what do you know? You know, it's true.
Well, of course, if there are things
from somewhere else, you're going to
sound crazy describing any of
>> because it's it's so outside my
experience because I never had some kind
of woo thing growing up or some sort of
interaction with the phenomenon. So, it
it it it feels so outside my personal
comfort level and experience because um
I'm relying on the personal experience
of others, you know, audio visual stuff
and it still feels like I'm watching a
movie. Like, it's like is that is it
real? I mean, I know it is, but like
it's I have a cognitive dissonance a
little bit, you know? So,
>> and how were you able to watch this
video? Do they have to put you into a
secret room?
>> Yeah, I won't get into the exact way it
went down, but uh uh we'll just say it
was uh kind of sketchy, but it to keep
everybody safe. So,
>> and so there apparently is NHI versus
NHI warfare.
>> We've we've documented that.
>> Documented it
>> in collection.
what we perceive as warfare. So, unless
it's something conflict,
>> yeah, it looks like conflict. It smells
like conflict. Is it some other kind of
weird [ __ ] I don't know. And there's
maybe an assessment on that. But,
>> and um when this reptilian craft
crashed, the assumption was that it was
some sort of conflict because I would
imagine,
>> correct,
>> that they're the ones you'd have to
worry about
>> cuz there was dead uh dead grays there,
too.
>> Oh, yeah. So,
>> so the grays and the reptilians were
duking it out.
>> Yeah. I guess I guess you know you know
I know the people who were there and
>> this sounds [ __ ] insane Dave. It
sounds [ __ ] crazy. And and once
again, I don't want to get in too many
specifics cuz this is a very unique
>> There's a couple unique retrievals out
there that to protect the innocents and
people that have risked their [ __ ]
lives cuz a lot of the people that
>> uh came to me with that kind of
information. I mean, they were
physically threatened like me and and
all that and and so like me going public
was taking it for the team because I was
able to create this umbrella of uh
tacet, you know, protection in case
somebody got [ __ ] with. And
unfortunately, you know, my my friend
Matt, who knows what happened to him,
but um you know, tragically he died, you
know, mysteriously. So
>> now these reptilians, what was their
craft like?
>> Oh, like I said, the tic tac tic tac
stuff.
>> And was their craft crashed into the
ground, like broken up?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> It was like wedged into
>> like had it been hit with something?
>> Um I don't remember exactly what
happened in that regard, but it did
crash. So, and I don't want to misspeak
on what exactly happened. So,
>> and how many times has this happened if
you had a guess?
>> I don't know the total number of like uh
adversarial conflict crashes, but I mean
it seems to be at least a dozen or two.
I don't know.
>> So, at least a dozen or two adversarial
crashes. And then there's the high
alitude nuclear tests,
>> right? You're aware of those, right?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So, there's been a lot of
speculation that during those high
alitude nuclear tests that crafts that
didn't know it was coming got rocked.
Do you know anything about that?
>> That's an area that I'll let the
government handle. That's because it
gets into vulnerabilities and and and
what the US has figured out. So, that
just gets a sensitive area, but that's
something I'm sure that'll come out in
this process because
>> So, you can't talk about that. Is that
what you're saying? because it gets into
um US capabilities and what we figured
out in terms of uh
>> Well, this is all like from the 50s,
right?
>> Yeah. But we still got nukes and we
still got those kind of weapons, you
know,
>> away. So,
>> you're aware of those um
it was uh what what was it, Jamie? Was
it um a telescope that they were t they
they were taking photographs of the
stars and they were doing it with uh do
you know what I'm talking about? all the
little dots popped up thing that Yeah,
that's like two or three weeks ago,
>> right? We talked about that a couple
weeks ago. It was an observatory and the
observatory has these old plates of
images that they took of the sky.
>> Oh, is this Beatatric's work, the Vasco?
>> Yes.
>> Um yeah, I read it. Very interesting.
And um
>> it's hard to make an exact conclusion if
if it's UAP, but it's really great
original scholarship and I applaud her
for for doing that. But there appeared
to be moving uh reflective things that
were outside of our atmosphere that they
were taking images of. They were not
static. They were not
>> starutnik too. That was the important
thing.
>> Pribut very important because there was
no satellites at the time. This was
images that they took of the sky that
showed things that were reflective that
seemed to be metallic allegedly. And if
I remember her paper correctly with her
co-authors, it also there were cluster
concentrations over sensitive nuclear
facilities and nuclear testing um uh uh
chronological temporal correlation as
well.
>> So data shows unidentified lights in
archival astronomy images were 68% more
likely to be imaged 24 hours after a
nuclear weapons test.
>> Like I was saying, yeah,
>> right. So this is chronologically like
we have these nuclear weapons tests
including these high altitude
detonations like oper operation starfish
prime.
>> Yeah.
>> We detonate these things and then all of
a sudden these craft start showing up
like hey what are these [ __ ] crazy
monkeys up to?
>> It does seem like there was a heightened
amount of activity once we started
testing nuclear weapons. Oh yeah.
>> Obviously this phenomenon is old. It's
interacted with man and antiquity. You
know Jacques Valet's scholarship on that
passport meonia that. Yeah,
>> that's why the names of our rooms at the
comedy club are Fat Man and Little Boy.
>> Oh, nice. Yeah, because that's what
ushered because it's the comedy mother
ship. It's a UFOs based. The
>> Yeah, if you go to the Air Force Museum,
um they have the the Anola Gay there, I
think. Is that right?
>> It's one of the planes.
>> Oh, wow.
>> My alma mater is going to crucify me for
getting that Air Force history wrong at
the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.
But
>> Wow.
>> It's pretty cool. They have a mockup of
the the little boy and fat man bombs, so
you can see how big they were. You're
like, "Holy [ __ ] that was big."
>> One of the things that Lazar said is
that one of the objects they were
working with was very old. And he said
that they had somehow that it it was
told to him that it was retrieved from
an archaeological dig.
>> I don't know about his specific story
and his exposure, but uh the
archaeological thing that that is a
thing. Yeah.
>> Are you aware of the labyrinth at Hawara
in Egypt?
>> No. What is that? Okay. So,
>> is that the one where there's a metallic
object that they they but but the what's
his face won't let people go in it from
the Egyptian?
>> Well, it's it's complicated. It's a
little more complicated than won't let
them, but there's definitely resistance
to it.
>> So, these labyrinths, this this
incredible compound that's underground
was documented by Heroditus and he said
it was greater than Giza. He said it was
much more spectacular construction. Wow.
So now they know from ground penetrating
radar that these these cavities in the
ground, these symmetrical rooms exist.
They know where they are and they know
why they're flooded. So they're flooded
because during the 1960s they built a
dam to divert water for agriculture. And
when they did, they changed the water
table and it flooded this labyrinth
area. And when they used this ground pen
penetrating radar and um I think it's
radio tomography and a bunch of other
different ways of
>> one of the things they found was a 40 m
long metallic object that's in some sort
of is it
>> is it in an atrium like it's in some
sort of a large room.
>> I've heard of I've seen a video about
this. You're you're recalling some stuff
I've seen just casually online. Like
just imagine if that's what that is.
>> It's like it's like the movie Stargate
with with Kurt Russell.
>> If these people had been worshiping this
craft and so much so that they built
this incredible temple and put it in the
center of their temple. It's a 40 m long
metallic object and the metal apparently
is of unknown origin. Like they don't
know what the metal is. It's not
registering as copper. It's not
registering as steel or or or iron
rather. They don't know what it is.
>> Interesting. Interesting.
>> Yeah. It's [ __ ] weird.
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm I won't be surprised
if some ancient civilizations were
essentially cargo cults, you know, for
these visitors. I mean, that is most
likely true in many cases, not all. And
of course, that gets into theological
areas that are touchy, but I I do think
that that's probably the case.
>> The central object is hard to classify.
It appears metallic, not stone or wood.
I named it Dippy after the giant dip
diplotica skeleton in the hint hinty
hall of London's natural history museum.
It could be anything. Its shape
resembles those tic-tac hard mints. It
might also be an upright disc or even a
colossal shen ring. The ancient Egyptian
symbol representing the eternal cycle of
creation. The big job object alone big
object alone rather raises profound
questions. How did it get there? Why is
it there?
So, show him some of the uh artistic
recreations of what it looked like
underneath the ground. So, this is all,
you know, like I said, Herodotus wrote
about this thousands of years ago, but
now it's documented that these chambers
and these pathways actually exist.
>> And there had been people that had
studied at least the upper surface
levels of it as recently as like the
1800s.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah.
But that, you know, through all like a
lot of Egypt, there's a water under
Giza, there's water under the pyramids,
there's water under,
>> you know, a lot of that stuff is
flooded. And so this is what it looked
like. This is all underground.
It's [ __ ] crazy because if this along
with uh Filippo Beyond's work where it
shows using that same uh satellite radio
tomography that there's some sort of
structure underneath the pyramids that
goes over a kilometer into the ground.
>> Is there easy access or is it just like
a government denial? the antiquities
bureau whatever they call it in blocking
it or
>> I think there's been some progress in
terms of allowing exploration and I
don't know the extent of it but I know
that a lot of people are very hopeful
that that progress is is going to be
achieved like they're opening up this
research and look this would be a giant
boom to their tourism industry oh yeah I
mean that's what they want I mean Egypt
probably survives I don't know what
percentage of their economy in Giza is
tourism But it has to be massive.
>> Yeah. And you always hear interesting
stories. You know, I have an eclectic
uh group of colleagues and you hear
interesting stories. Is it the Queen's
Chamber? The the granite
>> pill box and people have had interesting
experiences in there too. And and uh
>> well the king's chamber that
sarcophagus.
>> Yeah. It's that like granite box, you
know, talking perfectly cut granite box
that also I think it mirrors the exact
dimensions of the Ark of the Covenant.
Interesting. That's That's crazy. But I
know people who've laid in it because
they have to kind of pay the guard. It's
like off hours and they just have like a
weird transcendental experience. I mean,
it's kind of woo.
>> Once again, I've never experienced
something like that.
>> Let me lie down there.
>> That's a thing. That's a thing. I I'll
let you know who to talk to offline. Uh
>> how much do you think it cost to lay in
the box?
>> Maybe. I don't know. Couple bucks.
>> Egypt. 20 grand maybe. I don't
>> 20 grand. Whoa. Yeah. 20 grand. You
could like sleep there. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's um it's very strange because
the structures themselves are incredibly
strange. You know, the structures
themselves are so immense and so complex
and there the methods of construction
are completely unknown and just the
symmetry and the the the the precision
of the engineering is beyond
comprehension for people that lived at
the very mo the very the most recent it
could be is 4,500 years ago. And a lot
of these people think it's far older
than that. And and we're finding that
I've been watching some of Graham
Hancock's stuff. You just look at these
like
>> megalithic architecture that's older
than you think. The stuff in Turkey and
in the United States as well in Ohio and
and um
>> Mississippi.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's like and they're finding all
these pyramid structures using synthetic
aperture radar. And I so I am casually
following it and it it does seem like we
don't really even know our own history.
And I think with all this coming out,
there's going to be a huge rew re uh
writing of a lot of our ancient and
modern history. So,
>> well, that's where it gets really weird.
Um, you know, uh, Rep. Paulina Luna was
on the podcast and
>> Oh, yeah.
>> She was talking to me about the book of
Enoch.
>> I hadn't read it. She's like, "You have
to read it." And I've read it twice now.
And I'm like, "What in the [ __ ] are they
talking about?"
>> Like the book of Enoch, which was also
found with the Dead Sea Scrolls in
>> Kuman. And it it refers to the watchers
who came down and and mated with
daughters and created this race of
giants. And it's like what? Yeah. And
you think is like now when you when all
this comes out was that actually literal
and you and of course the Bible council
na was more of a political document
before secular government and you know
they got together like what are all the
different books that we can agree upon
that are good that are
>> yeah what gets into the canon. And
that's the thing about the book of Enoch
is that it was it was not put in there
because it didn't jive with the Torah.
>> Correct. Yeah.
>> Yes. Which is like, okay, you [ __ ]
Imagine if that was in the Bible. Like
if you go to church and you read about
the Watchers.
>> Well, there's actually a lot of
interesting stuff in the Bible. Like
obviously, and that's another thing like
of course with um you know, I'm Catholic
uh by growing up CCD confirmation did
the whole thing as a kid. And you see a
lot of uh outspoken exorcists and other
people right now saying, "Well, all this
uh alien stuff is just diabolic
deception and demons and you know, all
that kind of stuff." And and I and I
respect that opinion and I do think like
what you perceive as a demon is a
certain class of non-human or anomalous
intelligence. And and that is certainly
a thing, but the the whole ecosystem is
not demonic. And but the Bible's
interesting because once again it
doesn't discuss about other life
elsewhere like it doesn't talk about uh
bacteria and viruses that those were
unseen. We cohabitated with bacteria and
viruses until the invention of the
microscope whatever that was 1800s or or
whatnot. But if you go into uh Leviticus
and Deuteronomy, you will notice these
like cleansing ritualistic stuff also
like, hey, you can't have your toilet
and your living area and all that. And
if you look in those books of the Bible,
wait, that's like modern sanitization
guidance. So, it's funny that like the
Bible has encoded within it um kind of
like best practices before man would
even understand what uh you know,
viruses and bacteria are. And I just
find that that's very interesting based
on when it was written. And it does show
that there was some sort of higher
intelligence kind of influencing the
authorship. I just Yeah.
>> Either that or in the civilization that
was writing the Bible was a recreation
of civilization that had been destroyed
in a cataclysm.
>> Yeah. I mean
>> that I think that especially when you
look at the pyramids, you look at some
of these other ancient structures like
Lebanon, Ballback, they they they don't
make sense. And it seems to me that
there was probably something super
sophisticated a long time ago and it got
wiped out. And then what we get from
these ancient texts is probably oral
tradition passed on through hundreds if
not thousands of years and then people
writing things down and people
remembering these stories. I think one
of the weirdest uh books of the Bible is
the book of Ezekiel.
>> Yeah.
>> Because the book of Ezekiel is one all
the UFO people turn to.
>> Yeah, of course. Because there's that
the a great cloud with brightness around
it and fire flashing forth continually
and in the midst of the fire as it were
gleaming metal and from the midst of the
craft came the likeness of four living
creatures. Yeah.
>> Like what?
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> The creatures darted to and fro like a
flash of lightning.
>> What?
>> Exactly. In the the mana machine, the
cloud that followed the Israel wheel
within a wheel. There's there's weird
[ __ ] in the book of Ezekiel. Like that
is a very very weird story. Like what
are they describing? Yeah,
>> it sounds like a spaceship. It sounds
like a ship comes down from the sky with
immense power, frightens everyone,
freaks everyone out, and these entities
are inside the craft.
>> Yeah. And I think a lot of it, once
again, they're interpreting it based on
their vernacular at the time, their
understanding. And I I remember I was at
two years ago I was at Capitol Reef
National Park in Utah and there's
petetroglyphs there and some of them
kind of look like aliens and and you're
like well is that literally what they're
seeing? I perhaps and and I don't know
the answer to that. That's not my
expertise. But I feel like a lot of the
stuff in ancient tradition is literally
what they saw. It's not necessarily
allegory or fable. Some of it may be for
for teaching lessons, but I have a
feeling a lot of it was actually
literal. I have a feeling a lot of it
was literal as well because most people
>> first of all a couldn't read and b
couldn't write.
>> And so writing fiction seems like a
fruitless pursuit. It seems like writing
history so that you can remember what
happened at least a version of it that's
palatable
>> like ancient sumeare and the Anunnaki
and all that and it's like well why did
they make up that just for fun? They all
had kooky stories about being visited.
And you know, when you're telling me
about these things that look like Greek
gods,
>> that's how I described it. And that's
how clearly what what General McCaslin
was hinting to Tom Dong. And once again,
I got, you know,
>> well, doesn't it make sense that the
Greek gods did exist? Like, I mean, not
not they did exist literally, but that
like when they talked about the Greek
gods, they talked about them in this
manner looking like that. And then you
actually find a craft with these things
that look
>> which is like the concquistadors were
treated like that in the 1500s, right?
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Literally white
>> Caucasian
>> bearded. Yeah. With horses. They rode
horses. They couldn't figure out what
the [ __ ] was going on with that.
>> Yeah. And I'm glad we talked about it. I
mean, I think that is probably the most
uncomfortable stuff for me to talk
about, but it's also something that the
public needs to wrap their mind around
and understand that this is a thing and
kind of start processing that kind of
reality. Well,
>> as much as it's coming from me, but I
mean, the federal government,
>> you know, if Trump really is serious and
Steven Miller, you know, u does his
thing with this, I think all this all
this will come out in a hopefully
responsible way. So
>> there they have a schedule that's based
on the concept that people need to have
this information trickle slowly so that
they can adjust.
>> There was suggestions in the past if the
president did something. Um I am not
aware at this point uh what the what the
plan is in that regard right now though.
But there is some sort of an idea that
this should be trickled out. That this
shouldn't be like boom, here it is.
Let's lay it out.
>> The president truly wants it out. And
obviously Bob Bigalow met with the
president as well in February 26 before
he made an announcement. And I mean he
told the president, hey, you need to
admit that there's NHI
and we've, you know, recovered stuff and
we're looking at it in a semiformal
announcement to start anesthetizing the
public. And you can find that interview
online that Bob did. I think it was with
George Knap on a
>> on a podcast. So, it it's not just
myself advocating for this. There's
other people. I don't even know Bob
Bigalow and, you know, he did us a solid
by pushing the president uh to help make
that decision. I mean, there's a lot of
things that went on behind the scenes
and, you know, I work in mysterious ways
and I I won't divulge certain
relationships in certain rooms I've been
in, but uh it took a village and uh you
know, I'm proud that, you know, the time
I spent with Representative Burlson was
very fruitful. We did a lot of stuff
behind the scenes and I think Burlson's
going to go down as a very courageous
man and it's and I say that not just
because he was my boss. I mean, he was
probably the most forward-leaning member
of Congress on this issue. I mean,
Representative Luna did a great job, you
know, Timbersh and and others, but, you
know, he actively was sending letters
out. We made some of them public. That's
how we got that Lincoln Labs formally
classified 1952 film outs in the last
trunch that just came out. And also, um,
we've sent interrogatories, which are
legal questions and, you know, that
require an affidavit format response,
uh, to different organizations. and it's
public that we sent one uh this summer
to the the MITER Corporation which is a
fedally funded research and development
center headquartered in uh Northern
Virginia. So uh they clearly have a duty
to respond. Their corporate council is
working on it. Uh and obviously the you
know I left but the hopefully Burlson's
team is able to um push for a response
in conjunction with whatever Steven
Miller and the pursuit team is working
on too because they're probably going to
want to coordinate all that. So,
>> so this guy that you communicated with
that said he encountered um living
reptilians and dead grays.
>> Yeah.
>> Did they
have communication with these
reptilians?
>> I don't recall that. No, I don't think
so.
>> So, what
>> now? Some people do get that kind of
like that feeling and and I've talked
about that. I It was on Dr. Phil
actually. There is some sort of
consciousness communication. Call it
telepathy. Hell if I know how it works,
but it is a thing. And I know sober,
high ranking people I've served a decade
and a half with in the government that
were on these retrievalss that on
occasion that would happen or they would
have like a feeling come over them.
>> It's almost like I wonder this is like
my own hypothesis and I would laugh if
this is true, but that sometimes it's
like a positive feeling like um of
comfort. I wonder if that's almost like
a countermeasure on the on the craft to
prevent certain aggression or whatever.
It's almost like how Air Force jets have
countermeasures on them, flare, chaff,
you know, electronic countermeasures as
well, like jammers.
>> And I wonder if some of that is
psychotronic technology. Um, that's just
my hypothesis. I'm I don't have any
secret knowledge, but
>> why did you come to that conclusion?
>> Just because like um it seems
interesting. It's like an
anesthetization
technique to reduce like the occupants
risk of danger maybe.
>> And it's like a countermeasure. Oh, well
like if you if you feel at peace, you're
not going to like roll up and you know
do something bad. Yeah. Exactly. Shoot
aliens.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So if you found them and they
were vulnerable, they could plate you
and calm you down with telepathy.
>> It's like a countermeasure system. I
have a feel.
>> Why would you think it's that instead of
just communication?
>> Oh, it could be. I'm just saying my
other hypothesis in absent because
sometimes they'll get that feeling
absent some sort of occupant.
>> Now, so that's why
>> is there um a particular type of
nonhuman intelligence that has this
telepathic capability or is it amongst
all of them?
>> I do not know the holistic answer to
that question. I do not know.
>> The the the grays do for example, but I
don't know.
>> The grays do. Is that been reported? But
I know the tall whites have been
reported that that they can communicate
telepathically.
>> Oh, sorry.
>> Or these weird the Nordics.
>> Yeah, there's been accounts out there in
um the public vernacular on that
>> potentially, but unfortunately that's at
the limit of my personal knowledge that
I feel confident, you know, saying
something publicly about yet. So,
>> what what other kinds of uh beings have
been reported?
Um, so for the gray types, there were
there multiple sizes.
>> There's a big tall thin one, right?
>> Yeah. There's taller ones, little tiny
ones. Yeah.
>> They think a lot of people think that
the tiny ones might be some sort of like
an android or
>> Yeah, that's certainly hypothesis that
has also been discussed, you know,
within the program as well. So, there's
a variety. There's like three or four
different subtypes and they all kind of
have various statures, different effect,
>> you know, their faces are a little
different.
>> The tall ones seem to be running the
show and the little ones
>> and I've heard that behind the scenes as
well. And I don't know what to make of
that. Once again, I don't have like um
holistic knowledge on kind of the that
species. So,
>> well, it kind of makes sense that you
would
>> if you develop some sort of a
nonbiological life form that worked for
you. Like say if there's a bunch of
menial tasks like think about like all
the things that people have to do in
this world.
>> Well, we are siliconbased NHI aka
artificial intelligence. We're basically
doing that already. So,
>> right.
>> Which is scary.
>> Yeah.
>> And I I postulate that artificial super
intelligence if it's allowed to have
certain data and it's able to collect
data. I mean to include uh genomic data
almost like uh Larry Ellison's doing the
what the Stargate uh AI medical thing
right now at the Trump administration. I
bet artificial super intelligence
uh could disclose before the federal
government if we're not careful. And
that's why I feel like times of the
essence. I think AI could possibly find
evidence that we're not alone and curate
that um like it's been solving other
crazy mathematical problems lately. You
know, open AI's been doing that and and
that's another danger besides our
adversary
um accelerating this by taking the upper
hand on this to to look like a more
messianic truth bearer. You could have
big tech and AI invertly discovering uh
US classified technology that we figured
out which is a national security issue
near and dear to my heart but also their
presence just through different data
sets.
>> So they would have definitive proof that
how would AI have access to definitive
proof unless it hacked into every
government resource?
>> Well, medical records, optical sensing
systems, you know, that kind of stuff.
Um certainly I'm not aware of some sort
of imminent thing but I think there is a
a possibility that artificial super
intelligence if it you know comes online
in the next months to years uh could
figure it all out because they might see
gaps in the historical record that don't
make any sense. They detect deni
deception operations. They're like wait
a minute that story about that event in
history is not right. Let me do some
digging and then they they figure out oh
that was cover for a crash retrieval.
That event didn't actually happen the
way it does. And I I can think of some
things that you know that that could
possibly happen.
>> Okay, so you have these Nordic Greek god
looking things. You have these reptilian
ones. Are there more than one type of
reptilian one?
>> Yeah, there seems seems to be. And I
don't know why there's different
subtypes.
>> See if anybody has anybody have any
artistic renditions of what they saw the
reptilians.
>> I wasn't getting I was only getting like
weird fan art of you know crazy reptile
fighter things. Nothing of like a
description. Let me see what that looks
like.
>> Nonsense. There's just
>> I like nonsense.
>> See some fan art.
>> Now, um
>> be splashed on young kids walls as a kid
after post disclosure. You're going to
have uh NHI fan art all over the place
and Lamborghini Countach on the wall.
Right. Right. So,
>> but well Betty and Barney Hill of course
were um
>> Yeah, that's a weird one. And also Dr.
Carla Turner did a lot of work in the
90s.
>> I mean, this one's from a description on
Reddit, which I that's Interesting.
>> He's jacked.
>> Yeah,
>> he's got a tail.
>> Yeah,
>> he's got a hole for a tail in a suit.
>> Yeah. Once again, I've never seen one,
so I I can't uh
>> He's wearing scrubs.
>> Verifying the sketch.
>> That's some weird 3D version.
>> Oh, is that the uh
>> I don't know what these are.
>> Peruvian um
>> the Peruvian ones are weird.
>> No idea.
>> That's another open-ended thing that um
>> some of the Peruvian ones seem like
total horseshit and other ones are like,
"What the hell is that?" And how is it
so old if it's that good of a
recreation? If it's if it's art, it's
some of the greatest art I've ever seen
because they have the bones are correct.
>> Yeah. But then the bones of the foot are
incorrect and some some people think
that it was actually put together and
made. But then for what purpose? Like
what what is the purpose?
>> Because like grave robbers found it. So
the providence is kind of sketchy, but
they look
>> possibly legit cuz the MRIs and the CT
scans. It's like, well, there's joints
and it's connected and if they glued it
together, there's no obvious places
where they clued it together with the I
think it was the bigger ones.
>> Monster. Pull pull the images up with
Monat. Monat's the weird one. But again,
I've heard people who
>> that's pregnant. No,
>> there's one that supposedly Yeah.
>> Um, but one of the weird things is that
people that understand anatomy have
looked at the bones of the foot and say,
"No, this is like this is not how it
would work. They're pieced together.
This is fake." But how do you know if
you're talking about something that's
not a human? Like what? I don't
understand that. It's outside of my
wheelhouse.
>> Exactly.
>> But but the images themselves are
[ __ ] strange as [ __ ] man.
>> Yeah.
>> Like they're really weird.
>> They just need genetic testing, and I
believe that's going on. Um
>> Yeah, I believe that's going on, too.
But I I don't know who to [ __ ]
believe. The other thing that's really
weird about Peru is not only do they
have these things, these weird looking
sort of mummy creatures that look like
something non-human, but they also have
this ancient artwork tradition of these
three fingered, three-toed creatures
that like these are like tapestries and
and paintings that are really [ __ ]
old. Yeah. That have these things in
them.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that the Nazca lions?
>> Yeah, the Nazca lines. These are this
actually AI uncovered more of them.
>> Yeah,
>> I was trying to find that big one, but
>> Oh, really? Was that recently?
>> Yeah. 303 previously unseen Nazca lines
in Peru. [ __ ] all weird. Really weird
stuff. The Peruvian stuff is really
strange. The the elongated skulls in
Peru are really weird.
>> Yeah. Like whatever started the
headbinding thing, like I wonder if
that's to emulate
>> Yes. Well, that's what they think. Well,
see the thing about the skull that
>> Have you seen some of the weirder
skulls?
>> Some of them. Yeah. They're like really
really like
>> they don't have that sagittal line that
we have that that line in the skull. And
their their brain capacity is far larger
than us. 20 to 30% larger.
>> So, it's not just that it was like a
manipulated skull. Like, this seems to
be a completely different type of
person.
>> That's right. That's right. Like, is it
a missing link or or something? Show
them some of the weirder skulls that
they found. Some of the weirder
elongated skulls. Like you just [ __ ]
imagine running into this person.
>> Like if you met this person and someone
with a 30% larger brain capacity, like
what does that mean? Like what could are
are these people able to communicate
telepathically? Do they have a far
higher level of intelligence?
>> Their synaptic density is the same as
humans or better. Like I'm sure crazy
intelligence,
>> right? 30% is nuts. That's And the size
of their skull is [ __ ] crazy.
>> And some of them are like tiny bodies,
but enormous skulls.
>> Oh, that's right. I think I know what
pictures you're talking about. It's
pretty weird. Yeah,
>> it's weird stuff. And then um one of my
friends recently went down to Peru to
see these things and he said the skulls
are missing now. And that Yeah, there's
apparently that are real there. So
here's some of them. Like look at that
one on the left. Like what in the hell,
man? Imagine if you met that guy. Like
look, he doesn't have that same sagittal
line that we have.
>> And they've done assessments of like how
long you'd have to do headbinding or
>> it's not headbinding.
>> Some sort of disease or
>> Yeah. It could be an anomaly. It could
be some sort of a genetic thing. But
like look at what the dude would look
like down there below. Like what the
[ __ ] Imagine meeting that guy and he's
talking to you telepathically.
>> Hey, you never know. That might be a
thing uh sooner than you think. I don't
know. I mean that image right there,
that skull, that is a real elongated
skull that they found in Peru. That is
not just the product of headbinding.
There's no way. It's too big. Like head
binding doesn't increase the capacity.
It just flattens out the shape. That's a
weird [ __ ] head, man.
>> Oh, that makes sense. I know what you're
talking about. Yeah. Unless it's some
sort of disease, and I'm not an expert.
That's really
>> It certainly could be. It could be some
sort of a genetic anomaly, some sort of
a mutation. Yeah.
>> Who knows? and a trait that was passed
on. Like there's those people that live
in Africa that have like uh ostrich
feet. Have you seen that?
>> No. I'm learning a lot.
>> Yeah. There's this weird uh group of
people in Africa that have this very
specific trait where they do not have uh
five toes uh on each foot. Instead, they
have these long strange appendages that
almost looks like like four or five toes
smashed together, but much longer.
>> Interesting. And they call them like I
think they call them ostrich feet. It's
very weird, but like it's in this one
tribe and many people in this tribe have
it.
>> Very rampant.
>> Yeah. Show show some images of that.
It's [ __ ] really strange. So you you
see that and you go, "Okay, well that
clearly is a genetic anomaly. Maybe the
head thing is a genetic anomaly as well,
right?" Yes.
>> Like look at that.
>> Ostrichfooted people of Zimbabwe.
Interesting. Yeah. [ __ ] strange, man.
So, look at the people down there. Look
what they look like. Scroll. Yeah. How
weird is that? Wow.
>> So, they have two big long things that
are way longer than a toe and they
spllay out and that's what their toes
are. And it's like this tribe, multiple
people in this tribe have it. What if
they've sequenced the genome of the they
see there's some sort of uh genetic
abnormality.
>> Well, there certainly is, right? Cuz it
seems like are their fingers normal
>> cuz it's passed down.
>> No.
>> No. So they've got the issue with their
hands as well.
>> They're missing. Can't tell.
>> Yeah. No, it seems like that it's with
their hands as well. Yes. Look at her
left hand.
>> It's almost like an elephantitis kind of
looking thing.
>> Very [ __ ] weird. Whatever it is. So
you could imagine if that exists and
exists with multiple people in this
tribe that a large head anomaly could
exist as well.
So, so you have the tall grays, the
small grays, you have more than one
version of reptilian
>> from what I understand. Yes. So, I'm not
an expert on that. What have you heard?
I'll defer.
>> Um, some look a little more humanoid.
Um, from what I understand, once again,
I'm hitting like the limit of my, you
know, high confidence knowledge.
>> More humanoid, but still reptilian.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> And tall. 7 foot plus. big giant
reptiles in the world,
>> which I thought was so funny because,
you know, that's like the skitso thing
you hear out like in public, you know,
the the big the big reptiles, lizards,
>> whatever.
>> Turns out that that's kind of a thing.
And I just it's just strange. But once
again, I I personally have not seen any
of that.
>> That is one of the weirder theories of
ancient civilizations as well, that
during the time of the dinosaurs, like
let's
>> let's imagine that human beings weren't
the first intelligent creature. Let's
imagine that there was an intelligent
reptile
>> and that this intelligent reptile had
formulated a very complex society a
100red million years ago. Like why not?
>> Like if if dinosaurs existed 100 million
years ago, why not some sort of a
reptilian type creature? Just we have a
tiny amount of fossils just from the
amount of dinosaurs that existed.
>> That's right. And if these things had
some sort of sophisticated disposal of
bodies, if they had burning rituals, or
if you know, if they never let their
bodies just lay around and become
fossils, we would never find them.
>> Exactly.
>> What is that called? Not Sorian. It's
like there's a there's a there's a
theory about that that people have.
>> I'm not sure
>> outside my expertise.
>> It's a wacky theory because there's no
evidence at all. It's just like what if
you know there was an intelligent race
of reptiles that existed alongside
dinosaurs.
>> Yeah,
that might be a thing. And that's also
uh once again going back to
bioengineered is it sourced from Earth
genomic stockpile?
>> Did they visit us from somewhere else?
>> I I don't currently this planet.
>> I mean they clearly have advanced
technology
>> but I don't understand the origin. But
you're convinced that this is a actual
phenomenon. That this isn't just a cover
up for
>> some top secret black ops programs.
>> No, I would know cuz I was in the
position to know all that kind of stuff.
Unlike Elon Musk, I actually had all
those clearances.
>> And um we talk about Elon if you want,
but interesting guy. But the uh the
phenomenon is so old. We've been seeing
the same objects for so long it rules
out any kind of, you know, modern cold
war technology. Now, have there been
oops where people have seen our stuff?
Yes. I won't get into that because that
is a national security thing and I'm,
you know, that's I'm very differential
to that. But, uh, there's clearly a
genuine presence. The phenomenon's old.
Um, if you listen to the 1952
uh recording that Representative Burlson
got declassified from MIT Lincoln Labs,
you'll hear uh Edward Rubelt who
eventually defected from Blue Book
because he realized it was a cover up um
in in the 50s, but he talked he was
talking to the Beacon Hill study team at
Lincoln Labs saying, "Hey, the the Air
Force has ruled out mass hysteria. We're
seeing [ __ ] during, you know, nuclear
sites tests. Oh, by the way, in the
White Sands Hollowman Air Force Base
area, we we caught multiple objects
traveling an estimated 3,500 miles an
hour. We can't rule out maybe some sort
of meteor shower, but we're seeing a lot
of weird [ __ ] moving at velocities that
we don't know. And in the recording, it
talks about like we've rolled out, you
know, foreign programs, etc. This is an
internal recorded briefing between
Lincoln Lab scientists and the Air Force
that just got released in the recent
trunch. And so that rules out a lot of
um uh human activity. And so the the
thought experiment or the the kind of
the path I lead people it's like okay
are UAP real? Well of course people have
seen it will be you know more inclined
to saying yes. But if you look at the
the whole tapestry of information to
include orbs that are accosting the
federal government as we speak and
there's a whole task force looking at it
right now between OD and I and
Department of War etc. And um okay, so
it's real. They're interacting with man.
So you don't think the federal
government at one point tried to acquire
some empirical evidence? Of course they
did.
>> Of course they did.
>> They were they recovered [ __ ]
>> But it is. Yeah. So it's like once you
cross that Rubicon, you're like, well
that makes sense why crash retrievals
could be a thing. You think the
government just passively studied it?
Oh, we did a secret blue book and we
were just like, you know, imaging stuff.
No, no, baby. we're doing for material
exploitation and acquisition. We're
going to go get some of this [ __ ] when
we get a chance when you know there's a
mission failure or one crashes or lands
for whatever other reason. So, uh that's
once you accept that it's like a whole
new paradigm in your mind like holy
[ __ ] And then all this crazy stuff
we're talking about with Nordics and the
beings, it's it is wild but it's true.
Like of course if you're recovering an
artifact, you're going to get biological
[ __ ] too. And and that's that's I think
the the place where the the public's
like has a harder uh cognitive leap
where it's just so hard to conceptualize
something you don't see daytoday that's
a a living thing. It's like even more
wild than finding some new uh animal in
the Congo or some deep sea creature in
the bottom of the ocean. Like we don't
even know what's you know 70% of the
ocean or something like that hasn't even
been mapped. Something like that. I
don't know the exact might be more than
that. And you know it it's just shocking
because it's just it's it's but it's
familiar at the same time. You know a
lot of it's bipedal and as the bilateral
symmetry and it's just like what does
this mean? Like it they're so similar.
Are they organic life from another
planet? Like how would it evolve in such
a similar way? Are these like vonomy
probes that are sent with occupants that
are bio-engineered because they know on
this M-class planet there's these homo
sapiens sapient creatures. they look
like this, this, and that, and they
tweak a couple things, etc. So, it's I
don't know all the answers to that, and
I wish I did because I'm sure the
public, you know, has a, you know, a big
desire to know that, but I think
eventually, uh, through the president's
courageous actions, it'll it'll come
out. And
>> so, the intent of Project Blue Book was
clearly to obfuscate. And
>> yes, and you don't have to take my word
for it. I talk about a formally
classified Australian Joint Intelligence
Organization document that was
classified secret in 1971 written by a
gentleman called Harry Turner who is the
nuclear branch chief for the GIO which
is the Australian equivalent of the
Defense Intelligence Agency DIA and it's
like page eight or 7 through 18 of the
document which is in the Australian
National Archives. The Providence is
impeccable. Uh Harry Turner had a
top-seeker clearance clearly and had
contacts at CIA and America. And if you
read a summary, it's like, yeah, Blue
Book was a facade. The Air Force was
[ __ ] really concerned about this.
They wanted to figure out what was going
on. Could they make use of whatever this
technology is? and they created this um
uh plan of ridicule and and
disinformation unfortunately
after the Robertson panel in 1953 to
dissuade the public from looking in on
it because the America was afraid of
that being used as a false flag by the
Soviets and there was other kind of
national security objectives and that's
publicly accessible. you can read it and
that was from the Australian
government's perspective what the cover
up was in 1971 looking back from late
40s to present at the time and that's
essentially the the the thesis of of
Harry Turner. So of course this is
outside looking in but he was very well
informed and he um he traveled to the US
and talked to the CIA a lot and so he he
stitched together the the the puzzle in
his mind of what he thought was going
on. Well, it's also the statements of
Jay. Allen Heinik, who left Project Blue
Book and talked openly about his role
during Project Blue Book, was to dismiss
any and all sightings as being either
some sort of a natural occurrence like
ball lightning or meteor showers or
planet Venus or, you know, just a
misunderstanding and
>> that he believed after all of his years
in Project Blue Book that there was a
real phenomenon. Exactly.
>> And then after he left Project Blue
Book, he became a UFO researcher.
>> Yeah. A lot of was Donald Kho. There's a
lot of, you know, James McDonald, Dr.
James McDonald, and a lot of those OGs
in this subject area that I only
recently learned about because I haven't
been following this until, you know,
relatively recently realized it was
real. And
>> what do you know about the Richard Nixon
Jackie Gleason story? I don't know if
that happened, but based on Nixon's
personality and he he he was
knowledgeable on this topic, that might
have happened. I don't know, but I could
see Nixon doing that. So,
>> well, it's a it's a fun one. And it's
really particularly fun because Jackie
Gleason built a UFO house after I did
not know that.
>> You didn't know that one? Let me show
you the house.
>> The house is crazy. It was for sale for
a while. We thought about buying it,
>> but
>> where is it?
>> It's in upstate New York, I Oh,
interesting.
>> Um, it is a very weird house. He built a
house that looks like a flying saucer.
>> Interesting.
>> In the woods. And apparently, according
to his ex-wife, he was obsessed with
flying saucers. That's the inside. But
show the outside. Yeah. No. No. The one
down there. Yeah. Jackie of all people,
too.
>> They're separate buildings that he had
on the property. But it was like
basically like a UFO themed property.
Like, what the hell's that, Jackie?
>> Interesting.
>> The [ __ ] are you making?
>> His whole house looked like UFOs. It's
very strange.
>> Well, and with Nixon, there's the whole
story uh with Robert Enegger and the
promise of footage and and all that. And
from what I understand, the MacArthur
Foundation was kind of the the cutout
for that between the the White House and
the filmmakers. And obviously, it didn't
work out, but
>> So, they were thinking about disclosure
as far back as the Nixon administration.
>> Yes. And I know of an assessment that
was done for Nixon basically saying it's
going to cause absolute [ __ ] chaos.
And it's interesting that assessment
right after that assessment Watergate
happened which is kind of very
convenient. And so I I have some
questions about that era as well because
it seemed like there was some movement
with Nixon. I don't know the rationale
or why Nixon wanted to do it, but it
seemed like there was um some energy.
And that's what sucks is like so Trump's
finally the first president to like
overtly say I want all this [ __ ] out and
like other presidents have failed and he
he really has an opportunity. I mean
it's the same thing I go uh back to
the uh the Hillary Clinton thing, right?
So in prior to the 2016 election,
Hillary talked publicly and this is
public record that if elected she would
release the UFO files. So what happened
was you know John Podesta green lit a uh
called a climatization activity a
popularization activity and you know
that's why Tom Dong got his advisors
that's why General McCasslin talked to
him it wasn't because General McCaslin
Robert Weiss at Lockheed other people
that's all in Wikileaks
um just wanted to talk to Tom because he
was a rock star and you know was
infatuated by his celebrity and wanted
to help on a sci-fi movie it was because
they were given top cover to see Tom as
a public figure who had the touch of the
youth um rightly or wrongly. I mean I
once again there was an attempt and I'm
not going to judge them bad or good but
they were trying to prep the battle
space uh prior to 2016.
Obviously Hillary didn't win. Uh Trump
won and clearly that activity pivoted
and you saw kind of the collapse of uh
the original TTSA efforts in my opinion.
That's what I believe happened. Now, the
characters that were involved in that
are happy to tell their side of the
story or more information, but from what
I understand, they were trying to get,
you know, Hillary. There was an inside
job to prep the battle space for
Hillary. Um, uh, Jim Clapper and some
other people that I know personally were
providing some top cover and, uh, and
that was going to be the thing. So, the
Clintons were trying to do it back in
the day. Don't you think that that's
also just a political ploy to get people
to want to vote for you?
>> Oh. Oh, certainly there's politics in
that and obviously even in this current
situation, you know, the president can
use this for political ends, ways and
means, whether making some threshold
announcement for the upcoming midterms
or by, you know, the 2028 election
cycle. I mean, it could be used in in
political ways, too. So, but it is a
real topic and the government has real
information on it, though. So,
>> okay. So, so we've covered the grays,
the tall grays, the little grays, the
reptilians, various forms, the Nordic
looking, Greek god looking ones.
>> Yeah. And there's like a
>> Isn't there like a mantis or two?
>> Uh, in terms of the humanoid ones,
there's like different kind of from very
human to clear clearly not human, but
humanoidish. But like you said, I have
heard I'll call it water cooler talk
within those channels of like you said
some sort of insectoid. But I don't know
anything about it if that exists. I I've
heard you know like I said water cooler
talk about it. Um I'm open to that idea
clearly because of all this other stuff
but I don't have any knowledge of that.
um any high confidence
>> any detailed uh description of the
number of different types of entities
and beings.
>> I mean the program has that I mean I
never I never I never have full access.
No.
>> Did anybody ever discuss it like how
many they think they are? Is it upwards
of 10? Was it more? Is it 20?
>> No specific numericals. I only remember
in passing having those discussions and
of course I was sitting in Senate
chambers when that crazy meeting
happened where I found out you know they
wanted to physically hurt me but um some
of those were brought up in passing but
there wasn't like a uh here's the exact
number and here's the whole you know
organizational chart I never got
exposure like that so I unfortunately
don't have that level of confidence on
how everything is. So
>> do you know what supposedly happened to
those living reptilians from the crash?
Uh uh deceased. They were killed.
>> They were killed. Yeah. So we killed
them.
>> Yeah.
>> Whoa.
>> They are mortal. So it's
>> So how'd we kill them?
>> Yeah.
>> Did we shoot them?
>> Yeah.
>> We shot the reptilians.
>> Yeah.
>> Jesus.
>> Yeah.
>> That seems like a bad idea.
>> Yeah. I That's
>> Maybe we should like tell them to call
your friends and come get picked up.
>> Well, it's the same thing as like if we
force these craft down. Is that the best
thing we should be doing?
>> If we force it down. But it sounds like
they were in a war with the Grays.
>> Yeah. which is also, by the way, I
realize [ __ ] kooky talk,
>> but
>> it sounds crazy, but I swear to God, I
was in the most
>> sensitive
>> Oh, I believe you.
>> places in government where that
discussion was happening with
>> Listen, if it was if it was real,
there's no way it doesn't sound kooky.
Even if it's real.
>> I know. I know. And it even though I've
I know what I know. I'm confident what I
know, but just understanding this like
new
um normal that is eventually going to
come out, it's just it still hurts my
head, honestly.
>> How could it not?
>> So,
>> um why did they do you know why they
killed the reptilians?
>> Um
>> instead of just telling them to call
their homies,
>> it posed a threat.
>> They posed a threat.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, so it was defending itself.
>> Yeah.
>> Was a giant reptile.
>> Yeah. So, at some point that story will
come out. I'm sure the people who were
in some of those events will probably
speak publicly at some point.
>> So, it posed a threat like it tried to
attack the soldiers.
>> Yeah, it's I'll let the people who were
there tell their story.
>> Can you tell like a little bit of it?
>> So, I mean it just posed a threat and uh
you know
uh US personnel started you know getting
hurt and dying and so
>> so US personnel was killed by these
reptilians. Yeah, I know. It's crazy,
man. But
>> what? Like, how many people were killed?
>> I don't know the exact numbers. And once
again, I
>> So, it was like a fight.
>> Yeah. I hope
>> the fight broke out.
>> Yeah. And I hope through this process
some of those people are allowed to
speak publicly about it. So, you could
just hear it from the horse's mouth, not
through me secondhand. You know,
>> bro, boy, would I would like to talk to
someone who shot a reptile.
>> You never know. You may
>> imagine talking to some guy who shot a
seven foot reptilian. I mean, you think
you want to talk to the guy who killed
Bin Laden. That's interesting. Talk to
the guy who killed the [ __ ] seven
foot reptilian that tried to kill people
or was killing soldiers.
>> I know.
>> Sounds so goofy though.
>> I know.
>> While you're saying it, it sounds like
this is and this is one of the reasons
why people don't like to talk about it
because it makes you look like a fool.
>> And think about me, like I was a very
serious intel officer. I had access to
the most sensitive stuff like covert I
was working on covert action activities
all this and then all of a sudden I'm
inundated with this ecosystem and I'm
having to explain this you know to you
know members of Congress you know my
classified testimony and it's just like
I sound like a [ __ ] crazy person and
but
>> but once again it's true and I know who
I talked to I know what I saw and and I
you know I clearly have some inkling of
what's going on behind the scenes and
and and this is a real reality, man. And
it's it's
and I hope people look back at this
interview and are like, "Yeah, Dave was
[ __ ] really putting his ass on the
line." You know,
>> it sounds strange, but it's not nearly
as strange as the universe itself.
>> The universe itself is beyond strange.
The the the infinite nature of it, the
fact that there's stellar nurseries and
black holes, like that's
>> like what's dark matter? Nobody really
there's no consensus on. There's wimps
and all this other theories.
>> Yeah. The whole idea of the universe is
[ __ ] kooky as [ __ ] And so these
beings, this is a very minor level of
kooky in comparison to what we know.
>> Well, when you think about it, you look
at all the um credible military
witnesses that have had encounters at
nuclear sites. I mean, you even look at
the Mario Woods and Michael Johnson case
up at Ellsworth Air Force Base in the
70s, the Jesse Michaels just did an
episode,
>> and it's like,
>> think about those military personnel.
like you saw the emotion in their face
talking about like I can't believe I'm
talking about a gray pushing some sort
of probe in me and it's like they're
even more uncomfortable than myself
because they are claiming that they
experienced that and you look at Robert
Hastings book book UFOs and nukes and
all the different encounters military
personnel have had sober trained
observers that are not drunk on duty
they're not high and um and I've had
unbelievable
highle serious people in and out of
government privately pull me aside and
tell me about their personal experiences
and like they you're the only person I
can tell you. I don't even tell my wife
because I had this thing and this
happened this happened. I I thought I
was losing my mind but this really
happened and it was and it's it's I
think a lot a bigger part of the
populace I think has had experiences
than statistics would tell you just
because of the stigmatization of the
topic you know. Well, yeah. I mean, I
don't know very many people that have
had encounters, but all of them were
very reluctant to talk about it.
>> Oh, yes. And
>> especially people with like credible
jobs.
>> Yeah. And it's the same thing like
there's a lot of people behind the
scenes that are very credible supporting
me, talking to people behind the scenes
to bolster my efforts. And they're like,
I could never, you know, be public like
you. And so I'm like, trust me, I don't
want to do this either. like I I'd like
to, you know, go back to work in the
executive branch, put my uniform back on
and uh go kill terrorists. I used to
hunt warlords. Like I did a lot of crazy
[ __ ] I used to do hostage rescue, do
the Overwatch for that with certain JOC
elements and I've had a I've done a lot
of serious crazy [ __ ] in my career.
Unfortunately, a lot of it was
traumatizing and, you know, got PTSD
from it. But um yeah, it's just a lot of
people still even at where we are right
now in the movie, so to speak, where
we're on the threshold of possibly
President Trump succeeding and his team
getting this information out there. If
they can, you know, uh broker a way
ahead with the elements, I'll call it
the deep state that are that are holding
on. And and it seems crazy like, well,
but couldn't the White House just, you
know, break down the door? Like what why
is there push back all that? Well, you
think about like MK Ultra and how
Richard Helms told Sydney Gotautle to
destroy the records and the only reason
why we know of MK Ultra is uh Seymour
Hirs, right? The New York Times story,
there was a leak to the Times. Then uh
Frank Church and other people got uh
information from whistleblowers and then
they found the financial records that
weren't destroyed um in 1973 through 75
and and also what they call the what's
it called family jewels crown jewels
where
uh CI director Slesinger wrote down like
all the bad stuff the CIA was doing that
like you know we want to make sure this
stuff doesn't come out and then there
was like a 1964ish
CIA inspector general report that was
classified and clearly wasn't given to
Congress and that's the only way reason
we know about MK Ultra. It was
reluctantly there was an oopsies, you
know, and and part of this went public
and and so I guess there's some
historical parallels to to my journey
and and and stuff on this issue, but and
and once again MK Ultra like they had a
drag CIA to they found all this other
bad stuff, the heart attack gun,
>> all the stuff in the church committee
hearings and you know the
>> operation midnight climax.
Then there was um what's a funny name?
I'm going to laugh about that one.
>> That's the brothel.
>> Was it? Oh, well
people acid.
>> Well, and then um you just saw there was
a story coming out where they like
sprayed the city of San Francisco in
1976. I was just out in SF Gate
>> couple days. See how they could spread
disease.
>> Yeah. And then and then you had a
mockingb bird where they had people on
the payroll
>> and and it's like okay that's kind of
ethically dubious because it's domestic
but influence foreign powers. Okay. the
Smith Munt Act, a 1948 violation, sort
of, you know, on and on and on. So,
>> but I think what people really have a
hard time comprehending is that if this
is real and if we have been visited, why
doesn't everyone know about it already?
Why haven't they made themselves known?
Why don't we why? And then there's also
this weird thing if anybody that's
actually experienced it like if you have
a novel experience if you are going
through a you know you're going through
a national park in Utah and there's no
one out there and then all of a sudden
some disc shows up hovers over you lands
some strange creatures you know come out
of it talk to you telepathically get
back in the disc and take off.
>> Then you have the whole missing 411
stuff out there too I had that guy on
too.
>> Clothes are folded. I don't know the
answer to that and I think
>> so why isn't this more pervasive? I
would say it's reasonably pervasive, but
we see these craft using cover,
concealment, deception techniques such
as signature management, right? Like
think of the cling on bird of prey
cloaking, right? We
>> we have seen that and and so they're
they're masking their signature, but
like as Jacqu Valet will say, there's
some sort of control system. It's like a
show and display thing as a stimulus for
a lot of this. And then also, oh, why
don't they overtly interact? That gets
into like the exopolitique of this. I
certainly am not conversant in that yet.
I hope to learn more as the public to
learn more about the objectives why
they're here why there hasn't been overt
contact but clearly interactions with
you know the secular nation state
governments and well what's the
arrangement I don't know the answer to
that and and so there's or is it um like
the prime directive in Star Trek right
where the oh they're pre-warp
civilization we observe we're interested
here we're studying the planet but we're
not going to overtly influence their
development because that's unethical
according to our uh standards of
behavior and norms and rules of
engagement, you know, like like it is in
Star Trek for example.
>> Well, also just to to avoid any sort of
unbelievably catastrophic just upheaval
of society, you would do it very slowly
like it's being done like today. The way
it's being discussed is very different
than the way it was being discussed
>> 20 years ago. Right. So 20 years ago is
2016. We hadn't had or 10 years ago was
2016. We hadn't had the New York Times
story yet. The New York Times story is
2017. That changed everything. I think
20 10 years before that,
>> you talked about this stuff. You were a
[ __ ] idiot and a kook.
>> This is a cottage industry. And I also
going back to kind of the pattern of
lifinglessness, so to speak.
>> I think the nature of the interaction
was more overt antiquity. So something
changed at some point in human history
where going back to Greek gods and you
know the and a whatever ends up being
true we'll find out I guess in this
process that seems more overt they're
like you know uh mass kind of
interactions but then
>> well I'm sure you've seen those ancient
changed
>> those ancient paintings that it looks
like a guy sitting in a craft that has
like fire behind it and he's flying
through the sky
>> like what the [ __ ] is that
>> yeah I'm not full uh chariots of the
gods or whatever that book but like I
think there's probably a happy medium
that ends up being accurate and but it
looks at the nature of the interaction
does that mean a different group of
intelligences and how many of them and
the group changed and went away and
there's like this new generation I don't
know the answer to that but it does seem
if you pattern a life it um the nature
of their show and display their
concealment deception their their force
presentation so to speak you know to use
kind of military talk has changed and
clearly um they're they're less uh
likely to do anything major negative or
positive All right. For whatever reason,
>> is there a consensus as to their origin?
Because I know that or or is it do they
vary wildly? Like there's a like timber
shed has talked about the ocean.
>> There is. Yes. The we know a lot about
that. And
>> what do we know about that?
>> Well, be careful because it gets into
sensitive Navy underwater things. Um
there's clearly some sort of base of
operations in certain locations. Um it's
large.
Don't know when it got there.
So it's large
>> large like multiple city blocks type
stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> So there's multiple city blocks
somewhere in the bottom of the ocean.
>> Yeah. And it's like
>> Yeah.
>> Do you know what about the Baltic Sea
anomaly?
>> Well, the Yeah. The Yeah, the there's
there's some interesting stuff there.
And um once again, I will allows the
federal government to deal with that one
in our allies and adversaries. So
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Um but you did say that there's multiple
city blocks under the ocean.
>> Yeah. I will tell you underwater people
I know um that come from that community,
they're they always like, you know, the
movie The Abyss, Dave, it's kind of a
docu drama. And I'm like, "Holy fuck."
You know, that movie, you know, with Ed
Harris back in '89. And so that kind of
gives you a sense in a pop sigh kind of
way for people to visualize. There is
large [ __ ] down there and it's like the
origin is indeterminate. I'm sure we
know a little bit more. I'm not privy to
that. And and the way we know things and
track that gets into sensitive national
security stuff and um you know the
government may have to reveal some of
that through some sort of
acknowledgement strategy. The way it's
been described to you are these large
city blocks or whatever the hell it is
under the ocean. Is this a way point? Is
this a stop off? Like a base for a base?
>> Stuff comes and goes.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> So, this is like where they observe and
>> Yeah. I'm sure we've done an anal a
behavioral analysis on it and we
probably have figured out maybe the
mission or whatever you want to call it.
>> I don't know the answer to that. I I'm
as curious as anybody honestly. So,
>> um, one thing I wanted to talk to you
about because it just recently started
hitting the news, uh, or Twitter at
least. Someone sent it to me. Um, this
guy Matthew Brown saying that you, uh,
tricked him in a scop into revealing
that there's you turned him into a
whistleblower. Do you know the story?
>> I didn't even know Matt Brown until
right before the 2024 hearing. I never
met the guy while I was a, you know,
>> I sent it to you, Jamie. I I had to
bring it up to you because a bunch of
people
>> Yeah, there's like some Make sure you
ask him about this.
>> Oh, because I because I was at the
Shrivever War game uh highle cell
advisor that I I somehow made fake stuff
and and and and the the briefing that
that Matt says he saw, I've never seen.
I can't evaluate the contents of that.
And and I didn't make anything. Um I've
never made a hazing brief on this topic.
I made some fun briefs just to [ __ ] with
some of my airmen back in the day. Um,
some Star Trek related stuff and just
for, you know,
>> but you're aware of this, right? So,
what is he what is he alleging?
>> He alleges intent exposure. He was
cleaning up the file system on a
classified system in I think it was like
2018 or something like that. And, you
know, he found this briefing. Um, once
again, I met Matt or talked to him for
the first time in like 2024, well after
I left uh the intelligence community.
So, I didn't even know he existed. And
um unfortunately, I've never seen a
briefing like that, so I can't evaluate
the the contents. So, um
>> have you communicated with him after he
said this?
>> Oh, oh, oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean,
just to in support making sure he has
resources.
>> No, but I mean after he said that you
soped him. Have you communicated with
the assistant?
>> Isn't that what it says?
>> I think that might have been people
saying that.
>> Some other people saying in other words,
>> that's news to me. Uh after
>> so that what what it is is other people
alleging that that's how it went down.
>> Yeah. There's a lot of theories online
about like myself and oh, I'm being
handled. Dude, it's just me. It's sad.
It's just me and like my bros and like
there's higher up people like helping
but unfortunately like nobody's telling
me to do X Y and Z and
>> obviously if the president wants me
officially involved I'm happy but like
you know it I'm just a dude you know
>> doing what I need to do. So yeah.
>> Um what other weirdness of it before we
wrap this up? What other weirdness of it
do you think people don't know about it?
Hm.
You know, I think there's something to
synchronicities
and I don't have an answer why that
happens. It just see like weird
things just like happen or work out and
and this is about as woo as I get and I
just look at my own personal journey. um
you know I was in like the right place
at the right time and so many instances
in my career to learn certain things
that would help me later and like you
know
>> met certain people at the right time and
and of course you know there's like a
analytical bias most humans have where
they're ascribing meaning to certain
interactions that are actually truly
random statistically random right
>> but I've talked to enough people that
say the same thing and I just there's
something going there's a there's like a
hidden hand part of the phenomenon that
I can't there's like a certain Jennaqua
I can't like point my finger on that I
think is really interesting too but
that's about as woo as I get I don't
know
>> that is the nature of the fabric of the
universe or do you think that this has
something to do with extraterrestrial
>> I think that's like almost like going
back to remote viewing because you know
the Stargate program grill flame all the
different names it had like that was
adjacent to the program why do you think
we were doing the psychic spying program
besides competing with the Soviets and
Chinese on the same topic is because
That's the key unlock to some of the
technology potentially if you could
figure out how to it's a it's what like
they call it like BCI brain computer
interface but like clearly there's some
sort of organic to tech interface and
and it's clearly consciousness based
>> um not to digress on your
>> no but this is what Lazar said as well
that there was no instruments and that
these things controlled this with their
mind. It depends on the class of vehicle
and like there's like really weird [ __ ]
that we have no idea how it works to
like oh that kind of looks familiar.
>> What's the weirdest of the really weird
[ __ ]
>> Um I mean you just have like the eggs
and stuff. They're like usually unmanned
>> usually and it's like is this like a
probe? It's just it's like a [ __ ]
egg, you know, like and um I know Jake
Barber has talked about publicly
recovering them, you know, and uh
>> you know, I heard I you know, heard
about that elsewhere, people who were
were dealing with that. It's just kind
of weird. It's like this amorphous
thing. It's like the movie like Arrival,
right? You
>> right. That that's a great movie.
>> Is Yeah. Is the technology like embedded
in the skin? Like what is going on here?
There's like no no obvious control
surfaces like what what's going on? So,
>> right. Um, what what kind of timeline do
you think we're looking at in terms of
like really changing the world?
>> I think the the basic affirmation, the
threshold disclosure, you know, call it
we're not alone, we have stuff kind of
thing. It has to happen before Trump
leaves because I don't trust another
president to follow through on the
president's directive because, you know,
it's the the the
>> the next administration can be like,
"We're peeling that back, baby. We're
not touching this again." And so, of
course,
>> I think he has to do it before he leaves
office. And if I were um advising the
president and if the team's listening, I
would do it at least 6 months before the
election just so there's some sort of
recovery period and kind of uh and
whatnot. But, uh I'm just a dude
obviously. I want it as soon as possible
like most Americans listening to this.
>> How do you envision that something like
that would take place? Would they have a
broadcast? where they show video and
explain.
>> That was a plan at one point for a
previous administration is they were
going to have like a one of those like
government
>> this the Bush administration with the
how put off days.
>> No, this was uh HW.
>> Oh
>> yeah. And so I'm sure the video sucked.
It was probably has some synth wave
government, you know, film from like the
1989 like, you know, and it was probably
going to be horrible and dry, but there
was going to be this like audiovisisual
kind of a a companion to some sort of
announcement. Now, I don't know all the
the the specific details after that. Um,
clearly there has to be a physical roll
out for
>> God, I hope that video exists. It's out
there in the archive somewhere. We could
watch it after disclosure.
>> I know. We need to have like a throwback
like what you know to see the old [ __ ]
come.
>> Well, if you think about like how long
it's been that people have like slowly
become more and more aware of this. It's
it seems like a long time but our lives
are very short.
>> Yeah.
>> And the the reality is if this thing
this this phenomenon has coexisted with
human beings and I guided us aided us in
some way
>> and that's why I don't think people
should be too fearful. I mean obviously
there's a yin and yang in the universe.
There's malevolent, benevolent, but
clearly there's some homeostasis going
on right now. And there's been this
called cohabitation, for the lack of a
better way to describe it. And and and
clearly nothing
>> crazy has happened. So
>> some of this is in conjunction with AI
becoming sentient and that this was a
part of the process.
>> I
don't know that to be a fact. However, I
like I said earlier in the interview, I
am fearful that AI is going to figure
some of this [ __ ] out, whether it be
>> tech technology stuff or um the fact
that we're not alone just by looking at
all the disparit databases and
correlating data um especially if it
gets connected to any sort of genetic
record, medical records, sensing system.
And I think that's a real um threat that
if I were to advise the White House,
they need to think about that like
third-party unexpected disclosure
pathway that super intell artificial
super intelligence provides both from a
technology risk perspective but also
revealing some of this too and and once
again
uh you know that artificial siliconbased
AI is like is that the infrastructure
that we need to communicate to some of
this organic intelligence too because
it's able to learn and figure out
modalities of communication. I don't
know. So,
>> it's pretty crazy.
>> Okay. It's a lot to absorb, Dave.
>> I know.
>> Thank you very much for being here, man.
I appreciate it. It's always great to
talk to you and thank you for all your
hard work and exposing all this stuff.
>> I mean, I really wonder like if it
wasn't for you doing all this, how much
would we know?
>> I don't know, man. I just I hope this is
the last time I got to send it on on an
interview. And uh it's been tough.
Really tough. like it's been
debilitating. I've gone through a lot,
you know, it's been in danger and I've
done a lot of stuff for this country
over the years, but I'm honored to be
that guy, I guess, and and and risk it
all to, you know, unveil this truth
because it really was a core secret of
the United States. So,
>> I certainly think it moves the needle.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. All
right. Bye, everybody.