Today we make American alchemy history.
>> I have seen laser technology that could
bring down almost anything.
>> We get to interview a former secretary
of energy. That's right, the guy that
ran the entire department of energy. All
of our nuclear programs, the national
labs, and if I'm right, probably a lot
of stuff around UFOs. If you actually
read the Atomic Energy Act, if something
is not a nuke, but it has radiological
energy coming off it, you know, alpha,
beta decay, whatever,
>> same secrecy.
>> Same secrecy.
>> I believe nuclear secrecy was used as a
Trojan horse for UFO secrecy.
>> The Manhattan Project would have custody
of it and then it would go into the
Atomic Energy Commission and then it
would go into the Department of Energy
which has its own line of clearances.
>> And that makes sense. UFOs have shown up
at nuclear weapons installations and
civilian energy grids for the last 80
years. Countless witnesses have reported
UFOs hovering around nuclear sites since
the ' 40s, before we had drones or
reconnaissance planes, and thousands of
military and intelligence reports have
documented this connection. From
Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, the site of
the largest nuclear stockpile to date,
to Fukushima, Japan to Chernobyl in
Ukraine, the connection between nuclear
and UFOs is global and ubiquitous.
But the person we're about to interview
isn't just any Secretary of Energy. He
was one of Ronald Reagan's closest
adviserss throughout his career. And the
reason I really wanted to interview him
is that there has been a story
circulating about him by a friend of the
show and former American Alchemist,
Brent Freriedman. Here's how that story
goes. I grew up next to a guy that um I
revered, a guy named John Harrington,
his wife Lois, his two daughters, not
going to name them. And I mean, we
literally live right next to him. There
was like one gate between us. John was a
man's man. John taught me how to throw a
football, got me into football, and just
all these things. And he was like a
surrogate father to me. Cut to six years
later, he calls me up. He goes, "Listen,
I got a new job. I'm back east now. I'd
like you to drive our cars across the
country." That night when he comes home,
a black Lincoln Town car pulls up and he
gets out of the back seat and there's
two Secret Service people that come in
and I notice he has a briefcase
handcuffed to his wrist. They walk him
into the house and they go back and I'm
kind of watching from a distance. He
puts it into a wall safe distance and
one of the Secret Service people leaves
and the other one stays in the house.
I'm thinking, who is this guy?
Then afterwards, he's like, "Hey, why
don't you and I go out onto the veranda
and catch up?" I'm sitting there talking
with him. We're catching up. And I'm
like, "Okay, all of that's great. What
is your job?" And he goes, "I can't
really talk about it. I, you know, it's
I'm working for the government. It's
classified." And I said, "Okay, well, I
I don't what does that even mean?" and
he goes, "Look, I have a higher
clearance level than the president." So,
how did you get that job? And he said,
"Well, I I was briefed uh for months in
an underground facility in West
Virginia." And I said, "What what was
that like?" And he said, "Well, I used
to cry myself to sleep every night." So,
I said, "Well, I don't what what would
make you cry yourself to sleep?" And he
goes, "Brent, this is not the the world
I thought I was bringing my daughters
into." And so I pressed him on and he
kept saying, "I can't talk about that. I
can't talk about it. I This is like
classified information." And finally
after he'd had a couple drinks, he said,
"All right, look, I can tell you this.
Aliens are real. They're here and I've
seen them." Then I came back at him
with, "Okay, well, hold on a second. If
what you're saying is true, how does
everyone not know about it?" And he
said, "Oh, lots of people know about it.
81. You could walk into any bookstore
and you're going to find all sorts of
books on the shelves with lots of truth.
But right next to them are the books
that we publish full of propaganda. It's
a multi-billion dollar campaign to cover
up the truth.
>> They're real, Mr. Harrington.
They've been here a long time.
So, I needed to speak to John Harrington
myself. Luckily, his grandson, shout out
David, was a fan of the show, knowing
that this would be an uphill battle, but
also a historic interview. And it's one
that I hope body language experts
analyze very closely
>> cuz we were down at Greenbryer. I think
it was Greenbryer.
>> John clearly didn't want to break any
security oaths, something I don't blame
him for. Do you know about the National
Underwater Reconnaissance Office? Nuro.
>> Okay, that's public now. It's uh Yeah.
Yeah.
>> There's so much about the bottom of the
ocean that we don't know.
>> It seems like they might be finding
things on the seafloor.
>> Yep. They are
>> kind of exotic and
>> anything they want.
>> Did you ever work with Bobby Ray Inman
guy? He was deputy director of the CIA
at the same time.
>> No, we still see each other. He's up at
the Bohemian Grove. Do you think there
are any elements of the government that
systematically study this stuff? UFOs?
>> Yeah, the government does crazy stuff
everywhere.
>> Did you ever know a guy named Harold
Malmgrren by any chance?
>> Yeah, in one of our briefings at the
energy department.
>> Wow,
>> Jesse, this goes back decades. If I told
you there is an airplane powered by
nuclear power sitting in a hanger in
Idaho Falls, would you believe me?
>> It's Yeah, I don't know. Do you think
that that's possible?
>> It is. It's true.
>> I know there are projects that are so
secretive uh that there are great
efforts to keep them classified.
>> Without further ado, this week's
historic American Alchemy episode with
former Secretary of Energy John
Harrington.
>> Ignition sequence.
Now, is this possible?
Nothing too unusual about that. Their
existence cannot longer be denied.
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John, this is a total honor. I really
appreciate you being here today. Um, you
were the fifth Secretary of Energy in
the United States and you were also the
assistant secretary of the Navy for
manpower and reserve affairs. you were a
close Reagan adviser for for so many
years. Uh your wife is here today. She's
you guys are kind of a power couple. She
also has an illustrious career in in
politics and so uh yeah, it's just an
honor to be with you. I really
appreciate you doing this. It's not
every day that I get to speak to
somebody of your caliber.
>> Well, I'm a I'm a listener. I enjoy your
show. So, I'm pleased to be here.
>> Absolutely. Well, uh I don't even know
where to start. I mean, there's so many
kind of touch points and jumping off
points, but uh do you remember your
first interaction with Reagan?
>> First interaction.
>> Yeah,
>> that would be Chicago.
>> Do you remember what it was like meeting
him?
>> Well, he's a movie star.
>> Yeah.
>> And you growing up in LA, you know,
movie stars there. I mean, there you
hold them in a little bit of awe.
Um, but I had I had read a lot about him
and and I I had worked with the guys
that worked with him and he's he's very
understanding and very easy to get along
with. He's the same man in public as he
is in private, which you can't say for a
lot of the politicians. Do you feel like
he was very not only personable, which
is obvious from watching him, but but
high integrity and good to the people
around him behind closed doors, not just
kind of virtue signaling.
>> He was he was very good to everyone. Uh
I don't if I had to look back on it, it
was later during the building of the
Reagan Library that we would say were
more friendly. But in the in the
government of the United States working
in the White House and at the high
level, uh you're not his friend. You're
a you're a staff and you're working to
carry out policies. And if you don't if
you don't believe that, you ought to go
home. I I saw him mad a couple of times,
but um he'd be disappointed mad, you
know, if something happened that he
didn't think should happen. and the the
SDI people tried to undermine him on
that. He was not happy about that.
>> Yeah.
>> He really believed in that SDI and and
that was one of his major programs
getting that out and the staff fought
him on that. They had a lot of people in
the government that did not want the
strategic defense initiative and the
Russians did not want it. Even his own
secretary of state was against it. And
describe what the strategic defense
initiative is. Again, to the average
person, they know of it maybe as Star
Wars. They think of it as some super
science fiction space lasers, you know,
missile defense uh project, which it
partly kind of was, but uh how would you
describe it? Well, first of all, the
president had been doing a lot of
reading, a lot of thinking, and you need
to get by the fact that some of the
politicians and a lot of the press
thought President was, you know, not
smart, and he was nothing but an actor
from Hollywood.
Of course, his his diaries have now been
fully printed. I didn't know he was
keeping a diary. So, I started reading
some of the stuff in it that I was doing
and it's very accurate and and um
>> what does he write about you?
>> This was a private meeting in the
residence one night and I'd rather not
talk about that.
>> Okay.
>> I'm not going to write a book.
>> Okay.
>> But it's out there for anyone.
>> It's in the It's in the diary.
>> Okay.
>> Um and you have a book that came out
from the Hoover Institution called In
His Own Hand.
>> Okay. And what it is, it is absolutely
proof that he wrote his own speeches.
And of course, you have almost everybody
in the government now claiming they did
it. From um one of the chief um writers
for the Wall Street Journal to a few
others. They're all claiming they wrote
the take down the wall, Mr. President
speech.
>> Mr. Gorbachoff
teared down this wall.
He put that
>> Peter Robinson's thinks he I've met
Peter he's at the Hoover Institute
>> and Peter is you can take him to the
bank. Peter is is very good
>> but I think Peter Robinson said he wrote
that speech for now here's what
happened. Okay.
>> The staff took it out of the speech not
once but twice.
>> And so driving to the wall the advanced
man that was with him is a close friend
of mine. The president put it back in
again. M okay. Okay.
>> Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall. If
you really believe in freedom or
whatever it was.
>> Wow.
>> And they thought that was too
controversial.
>> So now we're going to go to SDI.
>> Yeah.
>> And he said, "Look, wouldn't it be
wonderful
at a cabinet meeting if we could design
something that would protect us from
missiles?" And at that time, the United
States had a policy with Russia called
mutual assured destruction.
>> What that meant was if they launch a
missile, we will launch a missile. And
if we launch one, they will launch one.
Mutual assured destruction was our
policy. It's crazy.
>> If you'd had that with Iran today and
they had missiles, uh we would have both
been blown off the face of the earth.
So, this was a new way of looking at it.
He said, "Wouldn't it be wonderful if we
could have this system that would keep
the missiles
um on a shield? They could never get to
us." And then he said, "I would be
willing as president to share that
system with any country that wanted it.
I would let the Russians have the
system,
>> but it was expensive system." So, um it
was kind of a surprise. Um the Pentagon
was not quite ready for it. The Air
Force was tasked to come up with ways to
do it. Livermore Laboratory was part of
it. Uh you had some of the best
scientists in the United States trying
to figure out
um how to do it. One of the ones I like
the best was
developed at Liverour.
Um, they would cause a nuclear explosion
to go off
in space and they would focus the energy
from that through a lens about the size
of your thumbnail.
And they claimed they could hit a silver
dollar at 500 miles
>> and disintegrate it.
>> Jesus.
>> I know.
>> That's nuts.
>> It was true. Now, that one did not get
to the top of the list
>> because the whole idea of firing nuclear
power in space or a nuclear explosion
was not going to sell
>> obviously. So, they worked in other
ways, groundbased lasers, space-based
lasers, uh, and a lot of progress has
been made in that
>> and it was called the strategic defense
initiative. The press panned it.
Democrats panned it. Everybody called it
Star Wars after the movie
>> and they said it was crazy. Well, here
we are doing it. The Global Dome, the
Iron Dome. These are all coming into
fruition now.
>> The Golden Dome in the US. Exactly.
>> Golden Dome.
>> Yeah, it's interesting. I think a lot of
people also thought of it as a kind of
way to bankrupt the Soviets or like make
make them chase us or something. But
>> it was
>> Yeah,
>> that ended the Cold War. Yeah, there's
some interesting in it, you know, about
the Excalibur designs from Edward
Teller, the sort of X-ray based blasts
that would take
>> Teller sat on my couch with me one
afternoon.
>> He was also a proponent of the one I
just described.
>> And he had brought a lens to show me and
how he was going to do it, but he was
going to propel it with the explosion.
Excalibur. Teller was an amazing man.
He's the guy that figured out that if
you inject certain elements into a
nuclear explosion, you can turn it into
a hydrogen explosion.
>> Wow.
>> He is he was a junior scientist at the
Manhattan project, but he's the guy that
came up with the idea.
>> Yeah. The Teller Ulam design for the
hydrogen bomb. Yeah. He had uh fights
with Oppenheimer because Oppenheimer was
like, "This is too big for any target."
And he sort of, you know, ended up
winning out. And what was Ed Teller
like? What was what were your
interactions with him like?
>> Well, I was in awe. I mean, I I didn't
give him my view on the world. I sat and
listened to him. There were just the two
of us sitting on the couch in the energy
department. He had a big cane and he had
the lens and he has a thick German
accent, older guy
and uh going to great lengths to explain
how this is going to work. I would love
to hear stories of the Manhattan project
and everything, but I didn't get into
that. We spent about 45 minutes, I
think.
>> Were there any anything outside of, you
know, traditional nuclear that he talked
about that was interesting?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> He's he's all business.
>> Okay. Cool.
>> He's all business. And um
>> we didn't get into the weapons part of
it at all. SDI was the only thing we got
into.
>> Uhhuh. I I want to bring up uh UFOs. As
you know, I have a show that covers UFOs
and kind of nature of reality. And
Edward Teller is a great segue because
his name is actually on a document from
1949 and it's this green fireball
problem and it's him and Lincoln Leaz
who's a meteor expert at the um
University of New Mexico and a bunch of
these kind of head honchos in the
military meeting you know on this
recorded document at Los Alamos and
they're trying to figure out UFOs and
this has now been you know let out by
the White House in their pursue act And
simultaneous to that, you have um
directors of national intelligence like
James Clapper. You have, you know,
>> that's not a name I respect.
>> Fair enough. Yeah. No, I I have issues
with him too.
Uh John Brennan also mixed bag, but you
know, a lot of these CI C for sure. But
a lot of these kind of head honchos at
the CIA saying, you know, this is real.
This is a real issue. So, you know,
consider me a strange bed fellow with
with some of these people, but you know,
I I think we have so much evidence that
these things seem to show up around our
nuclear sites. What What do you think?
And did you experience anything while
you were uh uh Secretary of Energy
around this?
>> Well, we got a lot of rumors about what
was happening in Area 51, which is a
very highly classified area with a lot
of projects that are highly classified
going on, primarily defense related.
um nothing about UFOs. Um and honestly,
I did not during the time I was there
come across anything in our budgets or
in our
um programs that would lead me to have
any knowledge in the UFO area. On the
other hand, I am I am not blind to what
I see on television with these Navy gun
cameras that are picking up off San
Diego, the the thing traveling at warp
speed, diving into the ocean. I frankly,
Jesse, I don't know what they are.
>> Um I don't know where they're coming
from. My guess is the amount of power to
send somebody with that kind of
propulsion is not within our capability
and it's not within the capability of
any country that I know of. You talk
about the hypersonic missiles in China
and things like that. This is so far
above that. Um they talk about Navy
running into certain things and and
submarines. Those are probably whales.
Um, but those gun camera films, uh, they
they are not faked. Uh, in my
estimation, the Navy would not do
something like that. So, there's
something you're seeing. Um, does it
come from somewhere else? I I don't have
any idea. Um, I'm a I'm a practicing
Christian. I believe
strongly in the book of Genesis that God
created the earth and everything in it.
If we have people coming from other
planets, it puts a hole in my beliefs a
little bit.
>> Why does it Well, first of all,
>> it's it would just be sort of and I
think they call it non-human
intelligence is the kind of more
official Pentagon nomenclature now
because it's not necessarily
extraterrestrial. I think it's just
consciousness that seems to transcend
humans. You know, it seems like they're
more advanced than us. uh which is, you
know, itself fascinating, but I think
that's wholly consistent with biblical
texts, you know.
>> Well, it depends. I I'm listening to
these people that know so much about it.
They all say, "I really know about it.
It's really real. It's really real."
They won't tell you what they've seen
and they won't tell you who they've
talked to.
>> Uh so, and I am now beginning to think
um we got a Fouchy syndrome underway in
some of the area you're working. I
watched um one of your guys um sit here
who I know and I talked to you about
this who absolutely fabricated a total
story.
>> So te tell the audience what you're
talking about.
>> You had a guy interviewed who used to be
a neighbor of ours in Walnut Creek.
>> Yeah.
>> And we hired him to drive our car to
Washington. He then claims that he uh
saw me
>> his name real quick.
>> Brent Freeman.
>> Okay. He said that I came home after he
arrived in Washington and I had been to
a secret uh place. I carried a briefcase
chained to my wrist. I had a driver in a
limousine. Uh you got to understand I
arrived in Washington as a peeon. We
didn't have briefcases chained. We
didn't have limousines. We didn't have
security. We didn't go to secret places.
I was working in the White House at a
lower level. Uh so that's all a lie. And
then I told him that I'd been locked
away for a month and I'd seen people
from another planet. It's just total BS.
He says I was like a father to him. I
never even knew this kid except as a
baby next door. So it was all it was all
made up.
>> What elements of the story aren't true?
Because did he did he drive across the
country?
>> He drove across with two other friends.
Uh, we had to move our cars to
Washington cuz I was going back to live
there and I had an appointment in the
administration and um I think they drove
and our dog was in the car too. He I
knew he was a student at UCLA.
It was interesting because my mother
went to UCLA and I always like to meet
UCLA people. Um, he said his father's an
artist. That's true. His mother was
living next door. We knew the father and
the mother. uh did not know Brent. He
says he came over and we threw the
football together. That didn't happen.
We watched telephone television
together. We didn't happen. We had no
get along at all. I I was a kind of a
father figure to him. That didn't
happen. Um but we did get his name
because we were looking for some guys to
drive the car. So he agreed to do it and
we paid him and they came back and that
was the end of it. Um, I was not working
at the White House at the time he came
back. I had a very lowly position. I
didn't have a briefcase with a handicap
to my wrist. I didn't have a limousine.
I didn't have security. All that came
much later. Um, didn't go to any kind of
secret site. I was working in personnel.
We were viewing resumes for positions in
the government. Had nothing to do with
something like that. Never saw him
again.
So, and at the time you were assistant
secretary of the Navy for manpower and
reserve affairs or you were at White
House personnel.
>> No, I was one step below that. I was
working in the White House political
office for Lynn Nosinger.
>> Okay.
>> As an intern for him and we were going
through early stages of the Reagan
administration. It was later that I came
in as uh personnel department and I
wasn't the head of it. I was
>> What year was that?
>> It would be June of 81.
>> 81. So that that was after Brent had
come,
>> right?
>> Okay. And he said something about an
underground facility in West Virginia.
>> Well, there is there is a hotel down
there. It's it's been put out of service
now, but it's been built under
Eisenhower. I forget which hotel it is.
Something Springs. I think it's where
Roosevelt died. I'm not sure.
>> I thought it was Green Greenbryer. Maybe
>> it could be Greenbryer. But they have a
huge underground facility where the
Congress and the president were all to
be put to run the government. The bunker
is basically a giant concrete box. It
has 2ft thick concrete walls reinforced
with steel all the way around it. It's
buried under 20 ft of earth. Took 50,000
tons of concrete to build it all. And it
was later when I was secretary of
energy. I got to see that cuz we were
down at Greenbryer. I think it was
Greenbryer playing golf and I went and
toured that thing. By that time,
Greenbryer had been moved up to Maryland
and a facility in Maryland which was the
same. And of course, they have that
facility was during the 80s and they
have a system to remove people to
preserve the government. I was number
16. I remember cuz my daughter sewed a
big 16 on the back of my swimsuit. And
uh so you're the 16th person to be moved
if they kill everybody above you.
So, it's a it's a facility they do have
and I I'm sure since 1990
they've improved that a lot and I'm
beginning to think there's going to be a
lot of that under the ballroom at the
White House because that's a vast system
they're building under there.
>> So, so, so you have been there a couple
times in your career. Once in the 80s
and once in the 90s.
>> No, not once in the 90s. I went to the
Greenbryer would be 86
probably 87.
>> Okay, got it. So, this was after you'
never had Had you ever been before the
Brent experience?
>> Never.
>> Interesting.
>> Or anything even like it.
>> Okay. I'm going to get some flak if I if
I don't offer this. Would we be able to
maybe patch in Brent and you could clear
up the the story and tell him, you know,
>> I'm through with Brent. He's a he's a
young man that's fallen in love with
Hollywood and he's got the fally
syndrome and um he's you know he's
welcome to it.
>> So you don't want to talk to him?
>> No, not really.
>> Okay, fair enough. Um yeah, I don't
know. It's a bummer cuz he I he seemed
>> I hope he sees the interview and
realizes what an idiot he's been.
>> Oh, well he seems kind of earnest, you
know. He doesn't seem
>> Yeah, he does, doesn't he?
>> Yeah. So, so his story is just total and
complete BS.
>> Brent, thank you for being here, man.
Um, I just did this long interview with
John and uh, he actually brought you up
and he was like, you know, that story is
totally made up and he said he only knew
you as a baby. Said he sort of, you
know, created some distance, said that
like you wouldn't come over and play
football with him. How does it make you
feel just him kind of denying the thing
outright?
>> Uh, two ways. Uh the first way is the
obvious which is disappointment that
after all of these years and
contextually with disclosure coming out
and a lot of people feeling compelled to
tell the truth, a lot of whistleblowers
are are putting their their their their
reputation and maybe in some cases their
life on the line for this greater good
to get the truth out there, you know,
and honestly, you know, it's not true.
John taught me how to play football. My
father was an artist. He was an
introvert. John was a man's man. Um,
John not only taught me to play
football, he got me inspired in
football. I was growing up to be an
artist and I ended up playing football
all through uh, grade school, junior
high, uh, high school because he took
the time to teach me how to play
football and we used to watch football
games on in his living room. He was a
huge fan. He also taught me to
be competitive. So, I became a Cowboys
fan. I am still a Cowboys fan
irrationally. I grew up in California,
but it was great to just sit there and
and be competitive with him on the sofa.
So I yeah, he can stiff arm me if he
wants, but that was our relationship.
And that's why I've said in different
interviews and on Soundlight and
Frequency that he was like a second
father to me. I I didn't I was much more
than a baby. I lived there next door to
him between the ages of 6 and 12, the
formative years. On the other hand, I do
have to respect the fact that at the end
of our conversation that I had with him
that night out on the veranda, um I kind
of took all of what he said in and I I
said to him, "How do you know I'm not
going to tell other people about this?"
And he said, "Well, I'm sure you are.
The question is, who's going to believe
you?" And I didn't really think anything
of it at the time. And he said, "And by
the way, if you use my name and
everything, I'm just going to deny it."
When was this this exact interaction
transpired? 1981, right?
>> Yes. The summer of 9081 uh was when I
was had graduated high school and I was
then going to go off to college at UCLA.
>> And what was John Harrington's exact
position then?
>> I believe it was something to the effect
of he was on special assignment for the
president. Um, what I heard later
through my mom was that he was involved
in the ABSCAM investigation and had been
for a period even leading up to to after
the election in November and before the
administration took over. Um, he was
somehow involved in that and but that
was as much as we knew like and he
didn't tell me when we were talking
anything about what he was doing
actively. He only told me about this
briefing experience he had. There were
two things that John said that,
you know, aside from this idea that he
used he he told me he cried himself to
sleep every night. Like that's the kind
of the pull quote from that interview.
Like why would a guy at that level be
crying himself to sleep every night? It
it was certainly profound for me because
I looked at him as a man's man. Like so
him crying at all seemed odd. Um I
assumed he was unburdening himself. I
assumed that being the man he was, he
would not burden his wife and daughters
with this truth. But I could see that
physically it was a huge burden on him.
He had physically looked very haggarded.
And so, but when he told me all about
the alien stuff, I said to him at the
end, I said, "Well, okay, now I think I
understand why you were crying yourself
to sleep every night." He goes, "No,
Brent, you don't understand. That was
like day three." The implication being
is that his briefing took months
>> and and this was almost trivial to him.
This was like him throwing me a bone.
>> And so the alien thing is is feels like
like a footnote in whatever is kind of
going on. I mean, it's certainly a piece
of the puzzle, but we've come to
understand on Soundline Frequency
there's something much bigger going on
that has more to do with kind of sigh
and ESP. And I I think that's probably
something more that would cause you to
cry. Like the idea that reality is not
at all what it seems. And there are
beings that have access into our minds
potentially.
That's unsettling. That I could see if
you're a parent, you might draw yourself
to sleep every night. But not the idea,
oh, we have some bodies in a hanger
somewhere. Uh that's that's not
tearworthy in my mind. And he said,
look, we live in a god-fearing country.
Again, 1981,
there's only one thing that keeps this
world spinning,
gives everybody the control they need.
That's the global economy. If you
disrupt that by taking away the reason
for people to live their lives,
everything falls apart and governments
of the world will not be able to control
the populace.
So, what's the advantage of giving
people the truth? And I was like, "Well,
so you're telling me it'll never come
out?" He said, "If it has to." I said,
"Well, in our lifetime, maybe." The one
thing that's most obvious, and Jesse,
you must know this yourself. Your all
your many of your audience does. There
are underground facilities in West
Virginia, but we did not know about them
until the Washington Post. I think it
was the Post that broke this story in
the '9s about Greenbryer in and there's
an another one, and Greenbryer was where
they were going to evacuate Congress in
the event of nuclear war. So, there was
a place, but in 1981, nobody knew that.
>> Do you think he was talking about
Greenbryer? He didn't say, but again, he
was talking about an underground
facility in West Virginia. I only the
only thing I knew about West Virginia
was that it was west of Virginia. Like I
I didn't know.
>> What's funny is he he said he went to
Greenbryer, but he said he went in ' 87
and he was like, "Yeah, it's just this
continuity of government thing where you
know there's an attack in DC like you
know that's where the president in
Congress goes."
>> Yeah. So again, that story was laced
with details. He talked about the global
economy, how this would disrupt the
global economy. He talked about it being
a god-fearing nation. I was never raised
religiously. So, even that term
god-fearing nation, it didn't really I
was like, I don't I think I know what
that means, but I'm not even quite sure.
>> I don't need to get into a who shot John
with a you know, a 30-year-old.
>> No, I get it. it ju the only thing that
you know you just seem so high integrity
and straight up and then he's been very
cool with me too and he seems very
honest and earnest in his retelling so I
don't
>> I get that obviously he he works
inollywood but I he doesn't I don't
think he's like monetizing his story
with you it's not
>> I thought they had a production company
I read somewhere that he and the guy
that was with him on your show had a
production company
>> I don't know exactly what they're doing
but they're not I don't think they're
monetizing this story. I think he just,
you know, told
>> any kind of public exposure. I don't
care what you say about me. Just say
something. You know, that's that's what
they used to believe.
>> Yeah. Fair enough. Okay.
>> Let's see if he'll go in front of
Congress.
>> I'm sure he would. I'm sure he'd have
>> to raise his right hand and swear.
>> Yeah, I think I think he would. I think
he would. That's the sense I get.
>> That's getting him pretty deep at that
point.
I think a polygraph would be
interesting. I think if you pass that,
that would be awesome.
And I don't know if I I'm I'm willing to
do I mean, if people are that interested
in whether this happened or not, I'm
happy to do it.
>> Have you made any substantial money off
of the story?
I mean, it's we could have an offline
talk about the the economics of
podcasting, but um the amount of money
that Bryce and I have made off of uh
Soundlight and Frequency, which is
really where the whole story was, you
know, disclosed and and monetized as it
were, is so far below what my daily rate
is in Hollywood and on in gaming that it
it's almost a joke. So, yes, I have been
very lightly compensated for some of my
time, but this is not a money-making
endeavor at all. It's more just I I've
said this before, and I know this can
sound disingenuous, but I sat on a lot
of the my stories, my personal stories,
and certainly all of the details of this
story until I had cancer and I almost
died. And at that moment when I was in
my on my deathbed and watching light
beings come to the foot of my bed, I had
the sense that there was something I
hadn't done and I just wasn't ready. And
so all of that kind of doorway went away
and I got better and here I am. And my
kids said in retrospect, "Thank God you
didn't die because you have so many
incredible stories and we would have
been the ones telling them secondhand,
right? you should tell your stories
while you're still well you got a second
chance and I thought you know what I
don't know if that's what I'm supposed
to do but that's what I'm going to do
and so really that was kind of the
impetus for why I even agreed to do
soundlight and frequency but but the
point is is that you know I told a few
friends in college and they kind of just
thought it was a fun story they didn't
really believe me uh I told you know
people I was dating at some point and
was getting serious with as kind of a
litmus test like okay I'm gonna tell you
something now. And if you don't think
I'm crazy, then maybe we have a future.
Um, but for the most part, people didn't
believe me. The first person that really
believed me was Bryce Sable when I told
him uh the story and he said, "Well, I
mostly believe you because this aligns
with a lot of research I've done." See,
here's the thing. I never used John
Harrington's name until probably 200
19 or 20 or something when Ross Coldart
got me on camera and just pushed me so
hard that and he kind of already had
known because Bryce had told him and so
he used and I was like I I couldn't get
out of it at this that was the first
time that I used John Harrington's name
on camera because I felt like okay well
now people know it's going to come out.
Um, but up until then I was I was
respectful. I told the story, but I
didn't actually use his name until that
point. Here's another little interesting
data point. Um, when the show was uh
right before it was launching, kind of
the week before it premiered, I got a
buck slip from John Harrington. I hadn't
talked with him in a number of years.
Um, but I remember those buck slips, the
long vertical kind of like stiff cards
and it says from the desk of I get one
that says from the desk of John
Harrington. Hey Brent, you finally got
your story out there. Congratulations.
So he was
>> Did you save that?
>> I It's somewhere in my files. I don't
know where it is. I got to find it
because I can't imagine I would have
thrown it away.
>> I just My problem is I'm not an
organized person. So there's it's I'm
going to have to
>> I'm going to do some hunting. I also
part of me says too like you know I
think time is on my side with disclosure
coming out. Um, how do I explain the
fact that Dave Grush called me to get
insight into how to talk to John
Harrington? Why would Dave Grush want to
talk to John Harrington if John
Harrington doesn't know anything? He
said to me, the gist of it was,
we've identified John Harrington as one
as a very important person who has oral
history of a period where a bunch of
documentation does not exist anymore. I
don't mean to malign your next guest. Is
it David Gish?
>> David Grush.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. What about him?
>> So I I turned on his testimony to the
Senate.
>> Yeah.
>> And listen very carefully to it. He
loved it.
>> He was in the center of attention and
he's telling him all this stuff but not
telling him anything.
>> And then afterwards he's interviewed on
the street by about 20 reporters and
he's doing the same thing and he's
loving it and he's the center of
attention. I'm thinking to myself,
>> so you're not a fan of his? He's having
a good time. No, I talked to him on the
phone.
>> You did. You spoke to David Grash.
>> I did. And I said, you know, I respect
his career. He's 20 years in the Air
Force as a intelligence officer, but
Washington is full of people who are
looking to get into the mix and be
recognized. And
>> I don't think David Gush is a good
example of that. I don't think he's very
attention-seeking. He he's um you know,
he handled the presidential daily brief
and he was up for actually a big
promotion. and he sort of got completely
uh all these reprisals and kind of
maligned in his career and ended up
having to having to leave because of
wanting more transparency on this issue.
So I I think he was on a pretty good
track before this and I don't think it's
done him any favors.
>> All right. Well, I take it back calling
him a Fouchy, but I will say this. I
would like David to tell me specifically
what he saw and specifically who he
talked to,
>> not generalities.
>> Yeah. No, I think a lot of people are
are waiting on that. and uh would be
very interested.
>> Do you know what supposedly happened to
those living reptilians from the crash?
>> Uh uh deceased. They were killed.
>> They were killed.
>> So we killed them.
>> Yeah.
>> Whoa.
>> They are mortal. So it's
>> So how'd we kill them?
>> Yeah.
>> Did we shoot them?
>> Yeah.
>> We shot the reptilians.
>> Yeah.
>> Jesus.
>> Yeah.
>> So you felt like your conversations with
him were Were they productive or
>> No, he he wrote me a beautiful letter.
Long two-page letter.
>> Okay. and uh he asked if I would call
him and I called him and we talked and I
said, "Look, David, I I don't know
anything about UFOs. I can't add to your
knowledge. I was approached last
November by um a journalist formerly
with um Politico,
Ben Shiserling
or something to that effect." Um, and
uh, he said that he had heard my story
going around about John Harrington and
wanted to get my side of the story and
this was preoundlight and frequency. So
I said, "Well, I'm going to tell my
story in the podcast, so when that comes
out, you'll have everything you need to
know." And he said, "Okay, well, just so
you understand, John says he doesn't
even remember you. You you might have
been his neighbor. He has no
recollection. But you never drove any
cars across the country and he certainly
never talked to you about aliens. So
>> did he publish that that journalist? Uh
well that journalist has reached back
out to me because he is oddly
coincidentally um this week or end of
last week he suddenly decided the story
was viable or vital and he wanted to
give me one last chance to kind of
refute everything uh which I denied. But
he said uh that John told him that he
didn't even know you or he didn't
remember knowing you or what was the
>> he said he didn't he didn't know me at
all the way that I claimed he I might
have been his neighbor. He he really
wasn't clear. He had no memory of that
but he completely denied driving the
cars across the country. Um, so either
his memory was coming back to him over
time, uh, by the between November of
last year and when he spoke to you, I
don't know. Um, but I remember the
impact of hearing that. I tal I talked
to my mom who always had stayed close
with John and his particularly his wife
Lois and said, "Yeah, John said he
didn't even remember us." And she I
mean, she honestly started crying. She
was like, "The Harringtons were some of
our best friends. John threw me my 33rd
birthday at his restaurant, Victoria's
Station. I have photos of it. And
>> how much time elapsed between his first
outreach to you and you know now?
>> Well, so it was November of like
November last year, like November 23rd
or something last year. And then um we
exchanged texts kind of on and off over
the holidays. And the last contact I had
with him was January 3rd, I believe. And
then literally last week out of the blue
um he suddenly felt this story had uh
had juice.
>> So almost a year went by and radio
silence and then all of a sudden pops
back up when I happened to be
interviewing John.
>> Yeah. I don't I mean is that uh the
phenomenon or is it something else? I
don't know.
>> I don't know.
So, you know, nothing of any of these
sort of like a, you know, reverse
engineering or uh crash retrievals or,
you know, I think the one that feels
most ubiquitous to me is just UFOs
showing up at nuclear sites all over the
country. There's a great book called
UFOs and nukes. And you have 170 of
these guys who are, you know, missile
security radar operators. They're super
honest guys and they don't get into that
job to be famous. and they come out and
they say they see tic tac saucers orbs
sometimes tampering with the nukes.
>> When you say a nuke site, do you mean
commercial electricity generation or
defense sites?
>> I mean air force bases that are, you
know, air force bases and national labs,
but specifically places that house
nuclear weapons. So places like
Malmstrom uh Air Force Base in Montana,
uh Ellsworth Air Force Base in South
Dakota, FE Warren, places like that,
Savannah River site, Seal Beach, and
even Vandenberg, which is just, you
know, missile testing as you know.
>> So the Chinese
send a balloon over and it looks at
sites
and you're saying someone else is
probably sending something else.
>> Seems like right when we built nukes,
something showed up and it wasn't human.
I mean, it goes back until the 40s.
>> Goes back till the 40s. Yeah.
>> I I don't know. I don't have any
information to give you. I I will I will
tell you Area 51 has been suspect for
years. Um there's a lot going on there
on defense related activities, but
nothing that I know about um with any
kind of UFOs.
>> Did you ever know a guy named Harold
Malmgrren by any chance? What what do
you know about him?
>> I met him and I know the name and that's
about all.
>> Was he uh was what was he?
>> He wouldn't remember me.
>> No, I I bet you he would. But what how
did you get to know him?
>> I think it would have been in one of our
briefings at the energy department. I
Okay. You have to tell me what he did. I
might come back to me.
>> He was um well, he did a bunch of
things. He was an economic adviser for
um JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford. and he was
doing a lot of trade stuff. Um, and uh,
but he his his closest mentor was a guy
named Richard Bissell who founded Area
51, was the deputy director of the CIA
and um, yeah, it's just a fascinating
guy. So, yeah, I was curious to hear.
>> I would have read the name. I think I
I'm not sure I met him then. The name
sounds very familiar.
>> He he definitely would have been
involved in some ways with the the
Reagan White House. And um the the
reason I bring him up is because at the
end of his life, he claimed to have held
uh UFO material that came down uh from a
nuclear a high altitude nuclear test in
the Marshall Islands. Um so there's this
test called Bluegill Triple Prime, part
of the Starfish Prime test series, and
material seemed to come out of the sky
and then it made its way to Sandia
complex. Um, and this guy, Lawrence
Preston G, who is the head of the Atomic
Energy Commission Albuquerque branch,
ended up founding DARPA, he had this
material in his hands and he gave it to
Harold Malgren. Harold Malgren was in
charge of the kind of cost assessments
for this whole, you know, missile
defense program.
>> He said, well, he reached for some stuff
sitting on his desk.
These are things that have come down.
I'm looking at you round rock, you know.
>> So, you're looking at like material,
anomalous material. Yeah.
>> Debris.
>> Yeah.
Handling.
>> Wow. That's amazing.
And Harold apparently said that this
whole thing was actually devised to take
down UFOs and that it that made its way
into, you know, Edward Teller's
Excalibur uh designs for strategic
defense initiative which scaled up this
sort of UFO crash retrieval program.
>> I I don't have any knowledge on that.
Where I would ask you where is the
material today?
>> Yeah, I don't know.
>> Why aren't they carbon dating it and
telling us what it is?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, did did you see
anything at the time that you felt kind
of was really onlogically shocking where
you were like the reality I know from
the civil side world might be turned on
its head a little bit or a little
different than I thought it was?
>> We heard we heard uh rumors from
protesters and things like that. They're
always making up stuff. Um, I I used to
fly speck our budget and I I found
something in the budget that
that really bothered me. Huge item.
>> And I wanted to know what it was and
they said, "You don't need to know
this."
>> What was it?
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>> I I used to fly spec our budget and I I
found something in the budget that
that really bothered me. Huge item
>> and I wanted to know what it was and
they said you don't need to know this.
>> What was it?
>> It was the F-17 fighter
>> being developed. our first um
fighter that was undetectable by radar
and it was based in the energy
department land in the Nevada desert
underground and the air force did not
want me to see it but was in our budget.
So I I finally said I want to see it. I
went out sat in one and you know they
flew them only at night until one
crashed and then it became very public
>> so it's not classified anymore but I
know there are projects that are so
secretive
uh that there are great efforts to keep
them
>> there was a budget line item from the
80s called the Aurora I don't know if
you're familiar with that it was like a
a locked program so billions of dollars
as well
>> well locked skunk works are famous
>> that's where F1 17 team was built in the
the UR planes. They're all built right
in the Burbank airport. Exactly. Right
in that building right next to them.
>> Did you ever meet Ben Rich, the head of
Loheed?
>> Yes.
>> What did you think of him?
>> You can't I met him? Okay. And then and
they they come out and they shake hands
and
>> Okay.
>> You know, you're a government official
and they need the money.
>> Did you get ever get a sense that he
knew something about UFOs? Do you think
UFOs were being used as a cover for
these high altitude recon planes? So,
obviously you have the U2 spy plane and
SR71 that
>> SR71 is a big one.
>> Everybody knows about those. Now, do you
think that UFOs are just kind of the the
follow-ups of those things? Or to me,
it's obvious there's something else
going on that where they seem to show up
around nuclear sites, nuclear
detonations.
>> Well, you're you're asking me to really
speculate. I I can't do that on that. I
>> Fair enough.
>> I need some sort of concrete
evidence or I mean if you had that
material and it was analyzed and it
turned out to be a super moon rock or
something we you know maybe we maybe we
could talk more about it.
>> Well, okay super concrete example would
be um Oakidge National Laboratory. So,
as part of this pursue executive branch
act, Trump is now, you know, releasing
documents on UFOs. And uh at Oakidge in
the ' 50s, there's a technical document
that talks about magnesium and bismouth
with isotope ratios that, you know, seem
like they're bonded on an atomic level,
which we defin we can't do now, let
alone back then. And they're studying
this thing, and it's a total enigma. And
so, this is an official document that
the White House is kind of endorsing. Is
it still being studied?
>> Yes. Yeah. In fact, um, you know, we're
in the Bay right now at Stanford.
There's a professor named Gary Nolan who
actually has another piece of magnesium
bismouth from a crash on the beach in
Brazil, an Uba tuba.
>> So, yeah, we did a we did a mass
spectrometry analysis of some of those
pieces with a highly sensitive
instrument. And one of them was
anomalous. The magnesium ratios were way
off. M
>> I mean not even close to being
natural.
>> And it's also Yeah. Magnesium bismouth
with isotope ratios. I think the
magnesium isotope ratios specifically
are just way out of whack for anything
you'd ever expect on Earth. The purity
level is, you know, standards of
deviations higher.
>> So the next question for him is where
did it come from?
>> I don't know. Did I'm asking, you know,
you had
>> he has it
>> and he's written a report on it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's otherworldly.
>> Yeah.
>> Where did you get it? I found it on a
beach.
>> In Brazil in the Brazil. Yes.
>> What was a Stanford professor doing in
Berkeley on a beach?
>> No. So, so there was a fisherman in uh
Ubatuba, Brazil on the beach, sees this
thing flying around in all sorts of, you
know, ways that, you know, transcended
any sort of flight patterns at the time.
This was before drones ever were a
thing, let alone in Brazil. And uh you
know this thing seemed to kind of like
explode in the air. There was this like
uh you know almost like a big event
where like it flamed out and a little
piece of it which could have been almost
like exhaust or like slag from it came
down and this fisherman retrieved it. Uh
it then ended up making its way to I
believe Jacqu Valet who is this sort of
French godfather of UFO research who
publishes his address online. He then
gives it to Gary Nolan who can do mass
spectrometry on it because he's this you
know official scientist at Stanford. And
so that's that's the provenence.
>> So the most interesting thing you said
to me
something happened to it in the air. It
exploded or it came apart
>> or was shot down or something caused
part of it to fall.
>> The question is where's the rest of it?
and if it's subject to failure in the
air,
what failed and who caused it to fail,
that type of thing. Those questions hit
me before a rock a guy picked up on a
beach and has gone through five hands
and has ended up at Stanford, which I've
lost some of my faith in Stanford even
though I'm alumni.
>> Well, the isotope ratios speak for
themselves. Those are strange, you know.
>> Uh but yeah, no, I hear you. What what
exactly interfered with it? I don't
know. Some people think that uh directed
energy or high-owered radar seems to
interfere with the flight paths of these
UFOs and that's why they come down. You
know that that that was sort of talked
about in in you know a lot of these
documentaries that are being endorsed at
the highest levels. So
>> I mean I I have seen laser technology
that could bring down almost anything.
Hm. You know, uh, Reagan also made some
interesting statements uh that I forgot
to bring up when we were when we were
speaking in person. You know, in 1974
while he was governor of California, his
pilot was a guy named Bill Painter and
they were flying in a Cessna near
Bakersfield. And apparently Painter
described uh basically this steady light
basically UFO 100 yards behind the plane
that suddenly accelerated seemed to
elongate and then shot upwards at a 45
degree angle and Reagan said to Painter,
"Let's follow it
as a kind of a joke." Um did you ever
hear anything about this? I know you you
had been, you know, uh, alongside Reagan
for many years, even pre prehis.
>> No, I heard about that. And I and just
to add to that, it was right near that
time. I'm not sure it was exactly that
same trip when we were coming into um,
Chico for a an event that would be
during the same event. Painter was
flying and and we came roaring in on a
runway, landed, went screaming down till
the end and I said, "Where's the crowd?"
And Painter has landed at the wrong
airport. So we took off again and flew
farther north and landed at Chico and
had the event. So these things happen, I
guess, you know.
>> So do you think But it seems like maybe
these things are otherworldly. Like
they're not, you know,
>> that's the word that gets me.
Otherworldly. Well, where yeah,
>> I want to know where the world is.
>> But in the 40s and 50s, who who would
have built these? You know, you could
come up with some sort of, you know,
exNazi boys in Brazil narrative where
they had exotic, you know, uh, flight
capabilities that they were building,
but
>> they would have built them in Hollywood,
>> but that's
>> they built anything in Hollywood.
>> So, but you think that this is all
explained by by Hollywood, all the UFO
sightings at nuclear,
>> Jesse, this goes back decades. Look at
what in the 30s when um what's his name
had the War of the Worlds broadcast to
the country.
>> Orson Wells.
>> Orson Wells broadcast war of the world
and the country went nuts
>> and everybody believed it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure.
>> This is not new.
>> No, it's not. But I mean simultaneous to
that you had, you know, you were in Los
Angeles at the time. There was something
called the Battle of Los Angeles which
made its way all the way to George
Marshall who was Secretary of State at
the time where a UFO was seen all the
way down the coast of of California from
you know uh Santa Monica into Long Beach
into San Diego and it was tracked all
the way. So there is kind of a
long-standing tradition of real
sightings too.
>> And where did it go?
>> Nobody knows.
But you know, so I think on the one
hand, the first rule of kind of
intelligence or defense is if you don't
understand a thing, don't admit it. But
I don't think that's right. I think if
you want to make progress on a thing, I
think you you just let it out. You open
source it. It's like the transistor,
right? In the in the 50s, you know, when
the transistor really came online, they
were thinking, maybe this we should
apply the invention secrecy act to this.
Maybe we should clamp down on it. we
don't want, you know, the Soviets or the
Chinese to get this or whatever. And
then at one point at another point, they
go, "No, we're going to we're going to
let it out and then we're going to run
fast as hell and we're going to win."
And uh, you know, why why can't we do
the same thing on, you know, this sort
of stuff if something is exists in the
realm of fundamental science and
onlogical truth? You know, I think the
people deserve to know. So with my
background and my age,
I'm looking at AI, which I don't
understand. And I've seen the fakery on
AI along with my grandson has done a
couple of things for me to play jokes on
friends.
Fascinating. He he took a friend of
mine, dressed him up in a in a coat and
tie. This guy's in down in Newport
Beach. Dressed him up in a black tie,
coat and tie. put him on the stage of
the Grammys receiving an award by Barack
Obama. Okay. All that done just like
that. So, I don't know what you can
trust in the AI now that's coming to us.
I I would trust a naval gun camera and
some of these shots that are that are on
the TV now, but from here on out, I'm
I'm going to be a skeptic on what I see
>> because a lot of these guy like there's
this guy Jay Stratton, another guy Jim
Lacsky. A lot of these guys have really
deep histories in, you know,
intelligence. They're, you know, senior
officers, intelligence officers, uh, in
one case a rocket scientist. And they
say they've gone inside these crafts. I
mean, actually, under your tenure, this
guy named Bazar. I don't know if
>> they've gone inside the craft.
>> That's what they say, inside a hanger.
They've gone inside a craft of nonhuman
origin.
>> You told us because you were allowed to
tell us that our government has a UFO in
its possession and has been able to
access the inside of it, right?
Yes.
>> And this guy Bob Bazar said he worked at
S4 Area 51 in 1989 and or I guess he
came out in '89, but yeah, it was 80
between 88 and 89. And he said he got
the job through Edward Teller.
>> Have you ever seen there's a there's a
video of um Edward Teller being
questioned on his relationship with you.
>> It's really funny.
>> And if I ask you on camera if you know
Bob Lazar, can you just say no?
>> I have you sit silently.
And so it's it's just so fascinating.
>> What did he do? He went inside.
>> He actually worked on reverse
engineering the craft. So uh there were
there a few different initiatives and
one was uh seeing if you could derive
any sort of directed energy principles.
The other was seeing if you could
recreate the propulsion of the craft. So
that that was a really big part of what
he was doing. He was trying to stabilize
uh you know he heavy elements do things
like that. there's this uh element 115
that they found, you know.
>> So, I I would say this um he would be
telling the truth if he was reverse
engineering
equipment in Area 51 because there is
equipment there that we acquired from
other governments.
>> Um
that we're using
to develop certain things. H
>> I don't I don't think that's all
classified yet, but there's a lot of
classified stuff there that I wouldn't
talk about
>> for sure. But it it does seem like these
UFOs show up around nuclear. There's
even a case also in the White House, you
know, pursue act 2015 uh you know,
Pantex facility in Texas where they
assemble the nuclear weapons and there's
this diamond, you know, shaped UFO and
it's hovering there. It's caught by
radar, two missile security officers.
And so it's hard to I feel like deny
that there's this kind of long-standing
ubiquitous connection between nuclear
and even in I just got back from Japan
and in their next to their civilian
energy grid in Fukushima, they see UFOs
all the time. So much so that they built
a museum dedicated to UFOs in the '9s.
So, you know, I think there's a
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, that's that's something I didn't
know about. We we've been to Fukushima.
>> Okay. Nice. And um I'm happy to point
out we were with there the guy that led
the delegation on what happened and and
Fukushima did not kill anybody. It was
the typhoon that killed him
>> that drowned them but the but the
reactor itself was not flawed.
>> The um
>> there's a video though from that
disaster where UFOs are everywhere and
it's almost like they're doing cleanup
which is just so fascinating. Steven
Spielberg actually made a documentary
about it.
>> Yeah. Well, I think Stephen Spielberg's
stuff is amazing.
>> It's amazing.
>> It's just amazing.
>> And he's such a believer. He He's He,
you know, says, "I have a sneaking
suspicion that, you know, this isn't
fiction. What I'm doing with Disclosure
Day,
>> you got to
you got to worry what Hollywood does. I
I mean, they they do change everything,
>> but I I think it's not just Hollywood.
You do did you ever work with Bobby Ray
Inman
>> all the time? Good friend.
>> So there you So, you know, very high up
guy. He was, you know, head of the NSA,
deputy director of the CIA at the same
time.
>> No, we still see each other.
>> Oh, that's amazing.
>> He's up at the Bohemian Grove.
>> Oh, very cool. So, he so he actually is
on record talking about he says, "I
don't know when the UFO truths will ever
come out, you know, but you know, they
will at some point." And he seemed like
he was very deep on on this issue. Do do
you uh anticipate that any of the
recovered vehicles would ever be uh
become available for uh technological
research outside of the uh military
circles?
>> Again, I honestly don't know.
>> Uh 10 years ago, the answer would have
been no.
>> Uh whether as time has evolved, they're
beginning to become more open on it is a
possibility.
>> And so
>> I'll ask him.
>> Okay. Yeah, please.
>> I'd love to interview him. That'd be
amazing.
>> Oh, he's a neat guy.
>> He founded Do you know about the
National Underwater Reconnaissance
Office? Nuro.
>> Okay, that's public now. It's uh Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Was it Bob Bellard
elected to that, too? The guy that found
the Titanic,
>> I think so. Yeah.
>> Yeah. He was close to him and
>> Yeah.
>> He he runs all the deep submersible
stuff.
>> Yeah. It seems like they might be
finding things on the seafloor that are
kind of exotic and
>> anything they want.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's what this guy
Bazar at Area 51, he said that what the
craft he or they found, one of the
crafts they found was found on the sea
floor. And
>> so this is you make an interesting point
that I forgot to mention. I
>> I was thinking about this the other day
just because I saw another picture of
one.
>> There's so much about the bottom of the
ocean that we don't know.
>> Yes,
>> there could be instead of another
planet, it could all be coming from the
bottom of the ocean.
>> Do you think there's a chance of that? I
have no idea.
>> Have you seen any evidence around that?
>> I've seen all these crazy fish they're
finding and the the sunken ships they're
now bringing up and the the Russian sub
they found and I don't know. Do
>> you think there's something to like a
movie like James Cameron's the abyss
where you have, you know,
>> they have gills and they're swimming
around.
>> Yeah. There's some sort of Yeah,
exactly.
>> In Hollywood,
>> alien intelligence, you know,
underwater. Yeah. But Hollywood, as you
know, they can get there was actually a
position uh called the official CIA
liaison to Hollywood and it was Chase
Brandon was the guy's name and he was
literally it was his job to like ensure
that
>> what a great job.
>> Why not? Yeah, I guess it's you know
it's to ensure you know that things were
done right and portrayed right and I
think he even advised on if you remember
Robert Dairo's character in meet the
parents he was like the CIA agent that
was you know Chase Brandon doing the
advising. Chase Brandon wrote a book
about UFOs and it's called Crypto's
Conundrum and he starts the book off
with this Francis Bacon quote and he
says that uh you know some truths are so
strange that they have to be hidden in
fiction. And so he says read between the
lines in this book and you'll understand
the the truth and it's about this sort
of elite majestic committee that came
together to sort of guard these
primordial secrets around how the world
worked.
It's fascinating. Well,
committees come and go and people die
and people get old. If you had a
committee from the 50s and 40s fooling
with this thing, it would die. It would
not have a life of its own forever.
>> Yeah, that might be true. Yeah. Harold
Malgrren um before he passed, he
mentioned the that sort of committee and
he mentioned him being on their radar
and him maybe possibly having having
worked with them. There are so many
committees and so many presidential
appointments of boards and commissions
that I mean there's 15,000 of them.
>> Did you ever get the sense that the
politics that feel surface level there's
something deeper going on kind of
undergurting the decision-m going on
internationally?
Like there's this sense I think that
people sometimes have that the civilian-
elected leaders are operating sometimes
within padded walls or sort of you know
confines. Did you ever get that sense or
did you feel like they had full latitude
to you know kind of do what they want?
Obviously with within the confines of
bureaucratic inertia that they faced but
I mean more metaphysically. No, it's
within the confines of politics because
every single one of them wants the job,
wants to be reelected.
>> And so they only operate and I I got to
tell you this is absolute truth in the
Congress, Senate, House,
they want their job.
>> And their wives are telling them at
home, "Don't screw this up, Henry. We're
not going back to Oklahoma."
>> And uh I think these are political
things. If it looks like it's going to
be controversial, they'll shy away from
it every time.
>> Yeah.
>> The UFO is a different thing. Um there's
so much happening outside. They may see
this is a great issue to leap on and I
never have to take a position.
>> You think it's a distraction or
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Okay.
>> Sure. Congressman says, "I want on that
committee. We're going to investigate
this. I'm going to be headlines every
day."
>> Yeah. You're right. We got all these
cool guys to talk to us
>> out there under oath.
>> Do was there anything in the world of
like exotic propulsion or gravity
manipulation you ever heard about?
>> Gravity manipulation. No. Uh propulsion.
Yeah. Always
>> exotic.
>> You have an issue with uh naval
submarines.
Propulsion is the highest issue I think.
Uh silence. M
>> they need to be quiet
>> and they go through all kinds of things
to keep them quiet
>> like the specially designed propellers
um all kinds of machinery that is that
can't rattle and shake. Now they are
ejecting
certain things on the exterior of the
hull as it moves to keep it quiet going
through the water. I mean, propulsion
was always on the front uh table of the
of the naval reactor program.
>> Fascinating. Yeah. It's just a
>> But if I told you,
>> yeah,
>> there is an airplane powered by nuclear
power sitting in a hanger in Idaho
Falls. Would you believe me?
>> I might. I'd be open to it.
>> What if I just made that up?
>> It's Yeah, I don't know. Do you think
that that's possible?
>> It is. It's true.
>> Okay.
>> It's never flown.
>> Never flown.
>> Somebody figured out it might crash.
>> Whoa.
>> Spread nuclear material all over the
place.
>> That's wild. So, it's just sitting
there.
>> Yep.
>> It's just this sort of like
>> sits in a hanger.
>> I know there was project Orion like
Curtis Lame wanted to do nuclear
propulsion. Freeman Dyson was working on
this thing and it ended up, you know,
JFK was very against it so it ended up
getting nixed. But I didn't know about
this. Well, the government's done some
crazy things. Howard Hughes built that
plane, by the way.
>> Wild.
>> Just like the GMAR Explorer and the rest
of them, but um look at Eisenhower went
into Adams for Peace.
>> He was fracking oil in the 50s with
nuclear weapons.
>> So, the oil would flow.
>> That's insane.
>> That somebody figured out when they
pulled the oil up, it was radioactive.
They said, "Now what do we do?" So, the
government is not beyond doing crazy
things.
>> Well, especially back then, it was like
we were in full cowboy mode. like the
high altitude nuclear test they would
just burn holes in the Van Allen belt
you know it's the first time and there
was like I think there were even like
calculations being done by the
scientists involved saying there is a
you know sub one but real percentage
chance that this ends the world and they
were like but we should still try that
you know sort of that was the mentality
>> supposedly that's what Oenheimer said
before they let off the first test
>> I think that's right at Trinity I I
might even be conflating that
>> Trinity. They said, you know, we don't
know what's going to happen. Put on your
glasses and keep your head down.
>> Totally. Do you think that, you know,
something happened maybe at Roswell? You
know, that was obviously the site of the
509th Atomic Bomber Squadron led by
Curtis Lame. It was the site of the all
of our tactical nukes at the time. Do
you think that maybe a UFO came down
then?
>> No.
>> Okay, fair enough. So, what do you
think? Do you think that the UFO issue
just completely sputters out because
there's nothing to it? Or do you think
there there might be something to it or
>> Well, one of you guys is going to have
to dig up some new evidence.
>> I think there's a lot of evidence. I
really do.
>> Okay. I want to see some material.
>> We could drive to Stanford now and we'll
show you material.
>> I'm going to see something in Stanford.
>> Yeah, you'd see material. You see the
material? I just
>> Give me his name again.
>> Gary Nolan.
>> Gary.
>> Tenure. Tenure professor. Well
respected. Uh, I don't know. He's
probably in his 40s.
>> Does he work on the slack, the linear
accelerator down there?
>> I don't know. I don't think so. No, he
has a a microbiology lab, but he's a
total polymath. He's very smart and he's
>> The guy I liked was the guy that entered
into the the COVID sickness and said the
maths were all BS and he's now running
the Nashville Foundation.
>> Jay Badacharia.
>> That guy's smart.
>> He's great. Yeah,
>> they got some good people down there for
sure. So, I wouldn't question this guy,
but if he hasn't seen a UFO or seen one
of the little people or visited the
inside,
>> he he has seen some little people.
>> He's seen
>> Yeah. And he's seen a craft, too.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> We're in We're in a brave new world.
>> This is This is not unbelievable. From
Stanford.
>> No, it's it's You'd be surprised. You
have a foundation at Harvard. You have a
foundation at Stanford dedicated to
finding extraterrestrial life. Not only
that, but the the kind of leaders of
both foundations are, you know, tenured
professors who basically are bought in
to the idea that UFOs are showing up.
>> So, they smell government money. That's
what it's about.
>> That might be your take. I don't know. I
think they're a little more earnest than
that. Or at least Gary is.
>> They got they got Musk wanting to go to
Mars.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So, they can reach that far and
they've got a new telescope that's going
to see everything out there.
How are they going to establish all
this? What are they how what are they
going to get? What information? And how
are they going to get it?
>> Well, now there's actually an astronomer
who's uh gone through the Palomar
Observatory Plates.
>> That's right outside LA.
>> Exactly. And it was the most prominent
observatory in use in the 40s and 50s.
And she has found a bunch of transients
that essentially look like UFOs. They
look like flat mirror-l like objects.
>> Things that are extremely flat and
extremely reflective.
>> Wow.
>> Like mirrors. And that makes it more
fun.
>> Like mirrors.
>> Mirrors. Interesting. Yeah.
>> But something not not a stone, not a
rock,
>> right?
>> Not ice, not round flats.
>> This is from the Palomar Observatory
before we had satellites in space.
>> Yes.
>> So that's fascinating. And what's really
interesting, so she's Stockholm
University, very, you know, reputable
astrophysicist,
and they look like UFOs showing up. And
then there was a actually a PhD at
Vanderbilt who did a follow-up study,
and he correlates these transients with
showing up around nuclear detonations.
So, they're more likely 70% more likely
to show up uh 24 hours before or after a
nuclear detonation in the ' 50s. It's
really fascinating. So,
>> that is fascinating.
>> Yeah. So, I do think there's a
connection there.
>> So, here's what I say to you, Jesse.
Stay on this.
>> Yeah.
>> And get the answer. I would love to hear
the answer.
>> I will. I will.
>> And it's your it's your area and you're
on top of it and I don't know anything
about it and but I'm fascinated. This
the kind of stuff I'd love to know
about.
>> Well, I appreciate the encouragement and
all.
>> I'm a citizen. Citizens should know
about this.
>> Yeah. Is there is there anything Yeah,
I'm with you. I think it's really
important. Is there anything outside of
um UFOs where you think maybe some
something fundamental about science like
parasychology might be an example like
sort of mind matter connection stuff.
Did you ever bump into any of that?
>> No.
>> And I I do believe sincerely that there
are people that can see the future.
>> Yeah,
>> I have personally seen that
>> and it's been declassified. There's a
CIA remote viewing program.
>> This is not about CIA. I don't know
about their program. I just know that
there are people that my wife and I have
met in real life that can predict
>> really
>> the future.
>> That's amazing.
>> Yeah, it is amazing.
>> Yeah. No, I I agree. I think there are
modalities of knowing that we just don't
understand right now. And I know
famously Reagan, you know, and and Nancy
got a lot of flak for having an
astrologer. But I think
>> that was her, not him.
>> Okay, that was more her. Got it. But I,
you know, I think ultimately, you know,
I don't No, I don't think it's it's so
it's so cut and dry how how we how we
come to know things. And I think human
intuition is much trippier than uh than
we realize. So,
>> sure, I can my wife and I communicate.
We'll be thinking of the same thing at
the same time.
>> There you go.
>> I mean, I'll be I was saying, couldn't
we have so and so for dinner? And she
says, we're going to have so and so for
dinner.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, that's that's coincidence,
maybe. But
>> do you think that we'll get any sort of
disclosure from Trump, any sort of, you
know, grand unveiling of truths here? I
I hesitate to predict anything from
Trump.
>> What's your uh Do you think he's sort of
shooting from the hip or what's your how
do you think he operates?
>> I think he's gonna believe it or not, I
don't your listeners aren't all going to
agree, but I I think he's going to go
down as a historic president.
>> How so?
>> Uh you may not like the personality of
the individual, but what he's doing is
incredible. Well, I think he's he's
taking the kind of negotiating business
mind and he's sort of porting it into,
you know, the White House. And I think
at times it feels a little callous and
art of the deal. You know, he's sort of
whipping people around or something.
But, uh, I think
simultaneously there are people who
don't realize there's a method to the
madness and that there is some real
strategy going into
>> they're going to be writing about his
presidency for years.
>> Do you think that?
>> Yeah.
Simultaneously though, some of the same
things we were talking about earlier,
the like punting hard problems to future
generations. I don't think that's gotten
better. I think
>> it's been going on for years.
>> Yes.
>> Pentagon makes a absolute rule out of
it. All the
>> all of the government programs have what
they call quote out years. They they
will never sit down with you and define
the end of the government program. In
fact, name one government program that
has gone out of business because it has
accomplished
what it was supposed to do.
>> No, nothing. You know, and
I'll I'll I'll D one better. And you
know, the inverse example of that of
I'll name you a hundred programs that
haven't worked and are this sort of
bridge to nowhere cargo cult that you
know gets funded every year. It's crazy.
>> That's right. We're still doing it.
We're still giving Stanford's lener
accelerator money every year and it's so
out of date you can't believe it.
>> Do you think we ever made, you know,
there's this rumor that this is like
ponds and fleshmen that we had this sort
of breakthrough in cold fusion possibly
in the in the 90s or 2000?
>> I think the jury's out on that. There's
some really smart minds working on that
problem and there may be a total
breakthrough. I I um I hope there is
frankly. Yeah. because I think all forms
of energy are necessary whe you're
talking from the lowest part of um
arrays solar arrays to um energy
efficiency programs it's all necessary
>> when you say the jury is still out did
you see any evidence that maybe we've
created some sort of preliminary
breakthrough at some point or
>> well look at the things in the past like
polio
>> years it was a plague on humanity boom
one day Dr. Sock solves it.
>> Nobody knew how and then he figured it
out. I mean, I think all that's
possible.
>> Interesting. Yeah, I I believe so, too.
And I I hope so. Sincerely, did did you
ever face, you know, you mentioned
having to clean up uh a lot of elements
of the DOE and how it was kind of
disorganized.
>> Yes.
>> Sort of the crown jewels of American
defense doesn't really exist with the
DoD. It really existed with the the DOE.
Did you ever feel like you had to fend
off all sorts of foreign adversaries and
spies and people with ulterior motives
when it came to
>> Yes, we had a lot of espionage in the
energy department. You remember the No,
you're I don't think you'll remember
him. There was a spy called Win Holi
who was operating in the energy
department in Liverour and Los Alamos.
We knew who he was, but he was
definitely a Chinese spy. And there were
others, but when Holi was the famous
case that finally broke and I called
my friend Ed Me, who was attorney
general at the time, still a very close
friend, and um we worked together on
that, and several other espionage cases.
There's no doubt that our government is
infiltrated by foreign countries on
many, many levels, whether it is through
the diplomatic core or whether it is
outside of that. And we even have some
of our own citizens participating in
that. We haven't caught them all, I'm
sure.
>> Well, a good example is a later
secretary of energy. I'm sure you're
familiar with Bill Bill Richardson who
you know was also governor of New
Mexico. And it seems like you know there
was this kind of siphoning off of uh you
know American nuclear trade secrets with
this sort of promise software. Are you
familiar with this that Robert Maxwell,
you know, who obviously is intimately
connected with Epstein, sold to our
national labs and it seemed like, you
know, they were just giving away our
>> I think nuclear
>> Richardson was under um
>> Clinton
>> Clinton
uh
that transfer of important technology
from the energy department took place.
more important the transfer of
technology from the commerce department
under Clinton and from the defense
department. You'll notice every single
Chinese fighter looks like American
fighter F-15.
Um we took all the limits off technology
transfer and it flowed and they got
money for it. They set up fundraising
groups. Um it goes on and on and on.
there there has been a lot of corruption
in our political system and there's
still is today.
Um you can't say that we are clean that
we've solved all the problems. Uh the
only thing we can do is stay ahead of
the other people in our research and
development and that'll probably save
us. That's why this AI thing is so
interesting.
>> Yeah. And now the Department of Energy
has this Genesis project which is sort
of I think a way to collate and collect
all the information from all of the
national labs and run it through AI and
then see what comes out the other end.
Are you familiar with this?
>> I'm not, but it doesn't surprise me.
>> Do you roll in your eyes? What uh what
are your thoughts there?
>> It's typical of a big dollar program
that probably will go nowhere. Hm. H was
there anything that you feel like wasn't
necessarily a a big dollar program that
was underinvested in that you feel like
we should be investing more in today
when it comes to frontier science?
>> I believe uh two things hit me. They're
both in the defense area. I think the uh
naval submarine program was underfunded.
>> I think it's probably the most
devastating program we have today and
weapon we have. They're totally
undetectable. They can travel anywhere
in the world. Uh they can launch
missiles everywhere.
I It's unclassified now, but our
missiles have 12 warheads in them. All
can be independently targeted
and and I've been in Pantex. I've been
down in the pits. When you said the guys
are circling above, but it is open. You
can't see out. They've got the weapons
on a lazy Susan. It's going around.
Everybody's putting their parts
together. It's fascinating. He would
love it. He'd love seeing it. Um, most
of my time is
fought against protesters trying to wipe
out the white train or go to the nuclear
site in in Nevada. We are arresting
people. They're having demonstrations.
Um, I think the Navy submarine program
is underfunded. I think the nuclear
weapon program is underfunded. People
are afraid of it. Um, they have, for
some reason, the public equates a
nuclear reactor, a commercial reactor
with a nuclear weapon. It's a terrible
mistake. There was a movie in the 50s
called The China Syndrome where a
reactor melted and went through the
earth and was ended up in China. It had
it scared everybody. And then we had
architects design nuclear plants
with these futuristic cones which were
cooling stations. Didn't have to be
there. French don't use that.
>> It gave a kind of a negative feeling for
the reactors. Um so it all led to the
ending of nuclear testing which was
taking place in Nevada. Now the testing
is all done on computers.
>> It's not enough. the weapons contain an
item called tridium that's put in in
Panelis down in Florida. Tridium um
degrades.
So we need to check all the time. Is the
stockpile active? Is it good? And we
need to test.
So I would like to see um that programed
up.
>> It also feels like a lot of our science
has moved from public sector to private
sector. And so there are companies like
are you familiar with SIC out here by
any chance? Science Applications
International Corporation.
>> I know the name. I've read about it.
What are they doing?
>> They were they were actually the largest
contractor, one of the largest
contractors for the strategic defense
initiative. And
>> that's where I heard it.
>> Yeah. And they were doing really
advanced science. They were actually
doing working on remote viewing stuff
that they inherited from the CIA. This
is all public information. Uh, and then
yeah, Bobby Randman was on the board
there and they were sort of, you know,
seemed to possibly be involved with UFO
crash retrieval and recovery stuff, too.
So,
>> yeah,
>> I'm going to ask Bobby. I got to know.
>> We got to talk to Bobby.
>> He is so cool. You know, in the in the
Navy hierarchy, he went to Annapolis and
>> all the admirals are here and Bobb's
here.
>> Do you think he would ever go on record
and and talk about UFOs? He'd talk and
he's so political you he you wouldn't
learn a thing.
>> He actually a buddy of mine interviewed
him and he he was very
kind of you know held his arms up and he
was very sort of defensive but he was he
was he was very collegial as well.
>> Correct me if I'm wrong but it just
seems like you're suggesting here that
you're aware of retrieved UFOs being
studied by the military.
>> No, the answer was no. I would not.
There were not. Absolutely were no
retrieved UFOs. I have high confidence.
>> Oh, he's a wonderful man. You don't get
four stars in the Navy by not being a
politician.
>> Yeah, but he did he there is a there's
another phone call with him where he
fully just starts talking about UFOs and
how it might come out at some point. So
>> maybe he wants a little press. I don't
know.
>> He's not above it.
>> Well, that cuts against what you just
said about him. So, I don't know. But,
um, yeah, it's an it's an interesting
topic cuz there's so much circumstantial
evidence. so much so beyond the
threshold that you know of thinking
there might not be a there there clearly
there's something there and then you run
into a lot of dead ends as well you know
and it's just uh it's very tricky but I
think largely the next few months and
years
more and more is going to come out and
so I think it's you know a lot of people
are going to be kind of on the right
side of history and vindicated who were
kind of you know people like David Gush
who I think were treated badly in the
past do you think because I I wonder if
high energy physics closed group. I
wonder if they know knew a thing or two
because it feels like that's where you
would there that's where you'd start to
break reality with high voltage
experimentation you know nuclear blasts
that sort of thing.
>> I'd say it's not beyond them but what do
you get out of it? The building block of
of the world of humanity. They want to
get to the lowest common denominator of
a building block.
>> Yeah.
>> Of a person of a thing of a microphone.
>> That's what they're looking for.
Totally. And there there are rumors at
the Large Hadron Collider at CERN. We're
at Cosmotron at Brook Haven National
Labs that UFOs seem to show up around,
you know, places where we're smashing
together basically the building blocks
of reality itself. And that would it
would kind of make sense if we were
living in some sort of
>> Well, the big stuff is happening in CERN
in Switzerland.
>> That's the best cyclron now. And it's it
is the world's finest and best and
everything else.
>> It is. And it would it would make sense
if you were, you know, beings, you know,
kind of guarding the sort of simulation.
You would show up where we're smashing
together the the building blocks of
reality, you know,
>> it it is um it's a special field and
there they're special guys in it, but
they're they just have one issue.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they just want
to build bigger and bigger, you know,
accelerators and see see what comes
>> comes out. So, where do you think we go
from here? Do you think we It seems like
Trump has now put Steven Miller on the
topic of UFOs. Marco Rubio, our
Secretary of State, basically admits
that we know somebody said, "What's the
conspiracy you believe in most?" He
goes, "There are things flying with
impunity around our nuclear sites." I
don't know who it is. I don't know what
it is, but there are things flying over
our military installation and they're
not ours, and we should look into this.
Be serious about it.
>> Okay. Now, I would I would believe that.
I would go along with that, but I I
can't go the next step. What is it? I
have no idea.
>> So, you do think there are things flying
around our airspace that we
>> Well, I've seen pictures of them on
television and I've seen films uh that
have been uh on the on the publications
and pictures in the paper. And
>> did you hear about any of this stuff
when you were No. No. Well, we watched
movies.
>> Uhhuh.
>> You know,
the Spellelberg movies were all out.
>> Yeah. and you know,
>> but nothing nothing more officially.
Nothing came out. Okay,
>> I'll say it again. There's nothing
official rumors. People always kid about
it, but
>> cuz I do think I think things will come
out, you know, near term. And so I'm
just I just hope that
>> I hope you break it first. I really do.
>> I hope so, too.
>> I'll keep watching and see if we can get
you to come out when like have a guest
here that came from, you know, Uranus or
somewhere.
>> Yeah, we'll try to figure it out. You
know, I got to choose a different
planet, but
>> I'm uh
>> Oh, you picked that up.
>> Yeah. So, do So, so you think we'll sort
of never know. You think it'll be this
like, okay, there are things around our
our sensitive sites, but we'll never
know exactly what that
>> Well, I don't I don't think I will ever
know. I'm 87
and um chances are good that it won't
happen in the five years, but I don't
know where it's all going. I really
don't.
>> Yeah. Would you ever
I don't know, talk to Congress in a
closed setting with somebody like a
David Gush and compare notes or
>> Sure. I offer to do that.
>> You offer to do that?
>> I've been back several times in u
restricted sessions.
>> Okay.
>> On security issues with the energy
department on especially on Rocky Flats,
Colorado. That was that's been a big
problem.
>> Okay. Well, that's cool that you're down
to do that. You're down to go.
>> I would do it. So the the thing that
Grush talks about is he talks about the
atomic energy uh act of 1954 and there
being this sort of restricted data where
if you retrieve anything that has alpha
beta gamma radiation any radiation
coming off of it it's immediately sort
of born secret. You actually read the
atomic energy act. If something is not a
nuke, but it has radiological energy
coming off it, you know, alpha, beta
decay, whatever,
>> same secrecy.
>> Same secrecy.
>> And so that's what he he says that the
UFO issue is sort of shoehorned into
that. And so he says that the Oenheimer,
people like Robert Sarbacher, Vanavar
Bush set up these sort of secrecy
protocols to, you know, go under the
Department of Energy. And so I don't
know if you have anything to say about
that. Well, first of all, the Atomic
Energy Commission wasn't under
Department of Energy till 76
before it was a standalone. It was
basically created by um
the Navy submarine guy Rickover. Rick
Overber is the father of nuclear energy
and especially in the Navy. He was a
four-star admiral when he wanted to
testify and then he could jump over to
the Atomic Energy Commission when he
wanted to be a civilian. It was one of
the great setups and I don't think we'd
be anywhere without him and I doubt that
Oppenheimer or any of these people had
any influence dealing with him. He was a
absolute one-man band and he believed in
all this stuff getting out. So, I'd say
that's nonsense, but
>> he believed in what getting out and
>> he had he had information on nuclear
power and the things the atomic energy
commission were doing uh public the
whole time and he was very much in front
of Congress testifying all the time on
that. There's several books on Rick
Overber that are worth reading. One of
them's called Underway My Way.
>> Yeah,
>> it's a good book.
>> Yeah, there's Blind Man's Bluff. Yeah,
too. And
>> well, that's a little different. and
blind man bluff. It's uh the Sousas
buoys that were uncovered were the Navy.
>> Yep. And I don't know if you've ever
read the silent war, John Pñena
Craraven.
>> Yes.
>> So there there he talks about John Pena
Craraven, you know, and these guys are
like the godfathers of the the Navy uh
recovering exotic technology on the
seafloor. And so another case where
you're like, what's going on here?
>> So we're going to find all the UFOs come
out of Atlantis
>> maybe,
>> which they now say is up in the Red Sea.
The Naval U has a consultant named Bob
Ballard at the institute in Connecticut.
Bob is one of the great guys and he's
looking for Atlantis out in the
Mediterranean and he's got numerous
books and he's gotten all kinds of
prizes.
>> That's so cool. Bob B, what's Bob
Bellard's background?
>> He's been running the
Oceanographic Institute in Connecticut
for the Navy.
um and uh been doing huge government
contracts for
exploration, deep sea submersibles.
He's almost high security stuff. I mean,
he he'll be at the bottom of all the
deep submersible
uh vessels that have been built. And
he's the one that found the Titanic. And
>> wow.
>> Found aircraft carrier out in the
Pacific. What's the one? Lexington thunk
>> off.
>> He's found it all and he's an
interesting guy.
>> It could be. There's a hypothesis.
There's actually a guy named Hal Putoff.
I don't know if you're familiar with
him, but he he says that we have 10 to
40 crafts in our possession. He also
says he worked with George W. Bush and
Steven Hadley, his national security
adviser, on, you know, whether we should
make disclosures.
And um Halputo off has a hypothesis
called the ultraterrestrial hypothesis
which is that um the beings the
non-human intelligence are a holdover
from a civilization that existed before
the ice age and they are more advanced
than us but they've been coexisting with
us on Earth for many years and so then
they could be under our oceans but also
be able to you know travel into deep
space. So, it's very interesting and
he's he's a longtime NSA CIA guy who's,
you know, held very very high
clearances. And he says this publicly on
Joe Rogan. He talked about George W.
Bush contemplating disclosure. He talks,
he literally says, "We have between 10
and 40 crafts in our possession right
now of non-human origin."
>> So, we're looking the wrong place. We're
all looking up. We should be looking
down,
>> right?
>> Into the ocean. You've quoted an awful
lot of CIA guys today.
>> Yes. And uh I would not expect that to
be where the information is coming from.
I've known a lot of spooks. The energy
department is just riddled with spooks.
>> And uh you know the if you look at the
energy attaches at embassies around the
world, usually they're CIA guys.
>> I don't find them on the scientific
level. They're full of
uh schemes and theories and they're
seeing shadows behind every door.
>> I think the reason it might fall under
the purview of the CIA, there's another
CIA guy named Jim Semivan who's, you
know, I think basically ran the whole
northern hemisphere for the CIA and he's
super into UFOs. And I think the reason
it's sort of maybe falls under their
their purview is because it's it's not
foreign intelligence, but it's super
foreign intelligence. And so it's like
they have the kind of analysis and sense
making, you know, mandate that would
make sense here. You're you're kind of
systematically dealing with things you
don't understand, intelligence you don't
understand. And so that's why they might
be the frontier of defense. There's also
a guy who was rumored to to run the
whole legacy crash retrieval program
named Glenn Gaffne, and he was the CIA's
director of science and technology.
>> Well, I would love to talk to the head
of the crash retrieval program during
that era, but he refused to talk to us.
And that was that was Glen Gaffne.
>> Yeah, Glen Gaffne.
>> There seems to be some sort of
connection between that and maybe DOE
oversight. That's what in this in this
movie age of disclosure, you have again
people who are you high up as director
of national intelligence saying
basically this was a joint effort
between the dire you know the department
of energy and the CIA's you know
director of science and technology. Bill
Casey was President Reagan's CIA
director and he he and I sat next to
each other at the cabinet table for five
years and pass notes back and forth and
we play golf every Wednesday afternoon
if we weren't busy. And we discussed all
this stuff. We used to build the
satellites for the CIA and the national
laboratories.
This subject never came up and and if it
was on Bill's agenda, he would have
talked to me about it.
>> Yeah. So, anytime in the 80s, I would
say
this was a non-starter.
>> Interesting. Well, I appreciate your
candid take, John. And, uh, you know, if
at any point you'd want to clear the air
with with Brent, I know he'd be excited
to speak with you, and I don't think he
means you any harm. I think he really I
think he was very compliment.
>> Complimentary. Yeah.
>> So, I think I think he just felt
compelled to to talk about it. He needs
to readjust his
principles and figure out where he's
going in life.
>> Okay,
fair enough. Well, John, this has been a
pleasure. I really appreciate it's a
total honor. You know, it's not normal
for me to be able to speak to somebody
of your caliber and your track record
and uh you know, I I think you have a
lot of really great takes on on
politics. And so hopefully, you know,
the people in in charge now take note.
And I also hope we're able to make
progress on the on the issue of of UFOs
cuz it's just been uh you know a real
slog to get to where we are now. But I
do think we've made a lot of progress in
the last 10 years or so.
>> I'm going to be watching and I' I'd like
you to make some progress. Also, before
we close, let me give you a couple
little keepsakes.
>> These are matches off Air Force One from
President Reagan.
>> Wow.
>> I don't think they're worth a lot.
You're going to light your cigarettes
with them.
>> But he did he own these? Uh, they came
off Air Force One.
>> He came off Air Force One. This is
>> And then here's here is a Reagan golf
ball. And I have to tell you very
honestly, Reagan played golf once a
year. He wasn't a great golfer. New
Year's Day he played always. Usually in
Palm Springs with the Annenbergs.
>> Wow.
>> And you can have that. You can sell
that. The Japanese are love that thing.
>> They'll buy it in two seconds.
>> I'm not selling this, man. I'm keeping
this. And I really appreciate it. This
means a lot. It's very cool. Especially
given the fact that he played so little
golf. This is a a rare keepsake. So,
>> he had them.
>> Yeah.
>> So, Jesse, thank you for um putting up
with us here and we've enjoyed it and uh
you're a very good young man
interviewing. So, um I wish you all the
luck in the world.
>> Well, John, I appreciate this and I
Yeah, this was an honor and a lot of fun
and uh yeah, I'm excited to to see how
how people respond and uh we'll see what
happens. We live in a crazy world.
>> Oh, yeah. Yes, we are. I'm waiting for
the AI to bring a microscope on all
this.
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe they're the
maybe that's the aliens, the the AI.
>> Thanks again and good luck to you.
>> Thank you. Likewise.
Do you think there's any chance
he was hazing you, but not gratuitously
randomly hazing you, but he wanted to
see if you would talk because there was
some sort of initiation process like a
secret society or something like that.
>> See, this is a great theory and it's
something I honestly hadn't thought of
because of my personal relationship with
him. I just I I assumed he was
unburdening himself. I assumed that
being the man he was, he would not
burden his wife and daughters with this
truth. But I could see that physically
it was a huge burden on him. He had
physically looked very haggarded. So I
thought in retrospect, I didn't make any
sense when he was telling me, but in
retrospect, I thought, "Oh, I have
compassion for him because he was
telling me things that he just needed to
share with somebody." But Bryce has a
theory that's very much in line with
what you just said, which is the way
things seem to work, right, as we've
kind of learned more and more on
soundlight and frequency is there is all
of this subtle nuance to things, how
information is exchanged and trial
balloons and initiations and all sorts
of stuff. So, it's quite possible that I
was being given a test of some degree to
see what I would do with this
information and that that may lead me
down a path in the future. You've talked
to a lot of people. Have you heard other
stories of people being hazed like or
being
given something that becomes an
initiation or something along those
lines? I actually interviewed um the
head of intel and counter intel for the
DOE from 2006 to 2009, a guy named Ralph
Moat Larson.
>> And he wrote this book that just feels
so like intel coded, you know, it's um
it's called um a state of mind faith in
the CIA. He also mentioned uh you know
being hazed uh by the DOE like there
being like a hazing ritual when he
joined the DOE around Roswell and it's
it's really interesting. So it's like um
he was brought in by the deputy director
of the DOE. So like the number two at
the DOE is involved in this like hazing
ritual around Roswell. We took a
director level. So, deputy dire
secretary of energy was involved and
several other bigwigs and me as the
director of intelligence and we take a
newbie. The newbie would be a political
appointee, very high level, maybe, you
know, deputy secretary or assistant
secretary or some level who had just
signed up and gotten their clearances
and we're taking their jobs and we bring
them down to the bowels of the
Department of Energy where some of the
most secretive things are guarded and
you know where those are kind of
everybody whispers when they come by and
you pull them into this back room like
Maxwell Smart and the old old TV shows
and the hazing ritual is to explain to
them that we really did have aliens.
We covered aliens. One was injured, one
was not. We got the alien techn space
technology of through through Roswell,
you know, etc. And it was a real thing.
And the the briefing is so good. It's
got all the real DOE, we call tickets,
you know, we call secret access program,
SAPS they're called, and things on this
to make it seem as real as possible. And
there's, you know, obviously there's uh
corpses on tables and stuff to make this
all look
>> At what point do you tell them it's a
joke?
>> Well, it somebody cracks up and it it it
somebody can't keep it in any longer. We
betray our own our own
>> and the secretary of that good actor.
>> The secretary of energy is literally in
on this.
>> It's a deputy secretary who's who in my
case was in the room. Oh my god. Yeah.
So, we raised it to the the highest
level.
>> And then the second really interesting
thing is he had a download. He had a
dream where he downloaded a bunch of
numbers and the first numbers or sort of
one of the prominent number sequences is
747. And so I call him out on that when
he brings up, you know, the story of
being haste. I go, you know, when
Roswell was, he goes, do you remember
the date of Roswell that they gave you?
>> Uh, no, not off the top of my head. I
think I had it in the I think I wrote it
in the book, but
>> it is in the book and it's July 7th,
1947.
>> Yeah. Do you think that connects with
your download 747?
>> Oh my goodness. Good.
>> You know, that's the first time I've
ever thought that that it might
>> There's something going on with high
energy physics, the Department of
Energy, I think, throwing people off
actually with this sort of alien motif,
but that representing an inroad to
something way deeper and more intense.
>> Yeah. Wow, I I need to go back and
listen to that interview. Um, I mean, it
all oddly adds up, but in a more kind of
like three-dimensional chess way. It
doesn't all add up in a linear kind of
rational way. And I think that what you
just said, that intersection of like
somehow quantum physics and weird
esoteric agnostic ancient philosophies,
religion, spiritual
technologies, whatever you want to call,
I think that's where the truth lies
somewhere in in there. And it I think it
probably does invol I think
consciousness is at the center of
everything, right? that that's the
that's the great unknown still the great
undiscovered country for us. Um, but I
also think that there is this
convergence at consciousness of science
and spirituality and and I think that's
also why this it's so hard to convey the
full truth to anyone. And it also could
be too that um part of this hazing
ritual or this initiation that people go
through is to see how you will respond.
meaning not just what you will do or who
you will tell but what your
consciousness will make of these ideas
or experiences, right? And if they tend
to go in, you know, in a more obvious
way, then you're not of interest. But if
they tend to go in a direction that
allows you to start having other
experiences, then you might be heading
down the right path and you might be of
value because your consciousness might
be ready to receive certain information.