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>> The Joe Rogan experience.
>> TRAIN BY DAY, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
NIGHT. All day.
>> Joe,
good to see you, sir.
>> Great to be back.
>> You were the first guy that got me
canceled, I think.
About COVID.
>> Is that true?
>> Yeah.
>> [laughter]
>> It's you It's either you or
Malone. One of you guys was the
beginning of like all the like the White
House and CNN and everything when they
all came down on me. It was
It was your misinformation that all
turned out to be true.
>> I'm [laughter] so, so sorry.
>> Don't be sorry at all. It was great.
Turned out well.
Uh for me, but it was
fascinating to watch. What What has it
been like for you these We haven't seen
each other in 5 years.
What has it been like?
>> Well, but you know, before I came on the
first time,
had anybody accused you of
misinformation before that?
>> No, not really. No, I don't I don't
believe so.
>> Had the word even come up?
>> No, I don't even Perhaps. I doubt it
though, because we never really talked
about anything serious.
You know, it was the the COVID crisis
was like the first time I was ever
really confronted with a very obvious
psyop. Like the It was It was very
obvious that we were being fed some very
filtered information. We were being
gaslit. And there was a narrative that
you were being forced to push. And I
wasn't going with it. And when
I experienced the pushback, I mean, like
like I said, from the [ __ ] White
House. Like watching the White House
press secretary saying that Spotify
needs to do more to censor me.
And watching I mean, Spotify got calls
from the president. They got calls from
my my management got calls from the
White House. It was wild.
>> You know, before 2020, before the
pandemic, the word misinformation
never appeared in medical literature.
>> Really?
>> Never.
And in fact, by 2021 it's called a mesh
term. Now it's an official term in the
National Library of Medicine.
There are scientific instruments that
measure misinformation
that you can actually
uh assess someone on a COVID-19
misinformation scale.
>> Really?
>> So I looked into this and I said, "Where
in the world did this come from?" What
this this word? And you can find it in
the English language around 1500.
And then uh I can tell you during Nazi
Germany
it was Goebbels who was running the
office of propaganda.
Oh my lord, what a useful word they
found it as. A propaganda word. So if
someone you didn't like, you could
accuse them of spreading misinformation.
>> Mhm.
>> So as soon as you make that accusation,
you achieve moral superiority. That you
hold information the person you don't
like is spreading misinformation.
>> Mhm.
>> It became very powerful. Then, believe
it or not, in 2018
it was word of the year
in Webster's uh
dictionary of of all the words. It
became such a powerful word. So it was
ready to go and be weaponized in the
pandemic. You and I just were on the
we were on the naivete side of things.
We didn't see this coming.
And we went on and before you know it
that that these were these this was
flying around.
>> I never would have imagined that
talking about things that are facts
would become such a problem. And then
there's the reality that no one ever
corrected all the things that they got
wrong.
Whether it's Rachel Maddow or all these
different people on television or even
the White House itself. All these people
that were saying things that turned out
to absolutely be incorrect. There was
never any
There was never any correction. There
was never any
>> Did anybody say they're sorry?
>> No. No, nobody ever said they were
sorry. No.
>> Not a single person.
>> Not even people that I know that were
wrong about it. Not even people that I
know that were wrong about it that got
vaccine injured.
>> What other circumstance in human life
does it greatly impact people, large
numbers of people, and in the end no one
apologizes
for harm? Can you think of anything?
>> Not Not I've found.
>> How about war?
>> Right.
>> Right? Oh, we went to war. No one ever
says we made a mistake. No one ever said
we're sorry. No one ever apologizes when
it's a big time thing like war. And this
pandemic, as it rolled out, in many ways
it had the characteristics of war in the
sense of we were invaded by a virus and
the the response was to behave like we
were at war and a lot of the uh
the statutes that we relied upon, the
BioShield Act and the PREP Act, what
have you,
you know, they used military terms. You
know, there were countermeasures
and they were the public was
at risk and the government was going to
step in
and going to take control, but whatever
happened, all of these countermeasures
were immune from a liability. So, as if
the pandemic was a war.
Now, maybe you're ready to go to war.
Looking at you, Joe, you're you're so
jacked, you're you could probably take
on somebody. Look at me.
I can't go to war. Look at me. Um
but what happened in this pandemic,
which I thought was very, very
interesting,
is that we were told, "Listen, there's a
war.
A virus is coming. The government is
providing countermeasures, but oh, wait
a minute. You doctors, you're the ones
and the nurses, you're the ones that are
going to have to do the fighting. The
The CDC doesn't treat any patients. HHS
and the FDA doesn't treat any patients.
You're going to have to treat the
patients. So, in a sense, you're a foot
soldier in this war that we didn't ask
for. That's where I found myself.
>> Yeah, for the first time in your career.
>> For first time in my career. I said,
"Well, what am I going to do?"
Well, I have to make some decisions.
It's not about shooting rifles, but I
have to make medical decisions. And
that's what I did, and I made the what I
thought was the best decisions I could
make, and before you knew it, as you
learned, I got in deep trouble.
>> Yeah, is that the first time that you
can recall where people were getting in
trouble for correctly treating people
that helped them?
Cuz by the use of hydroxychloroquine, by
the use of ivermectin, they became so
controversial
that doctors were getting in trouble and
losing their licenses for providing
patients with medication that
had not just efficacy, but there was
there was real studies that showed that
especially Uttar Pradesh in India,
there's studies that showed that people
that use these medications were more
protected and were safer.
>> All over the world, Joe. This happened
all over the world instantaneously.
That was the most astounding thing to
me.
Is that Wait a minute. How can the
entire world agree on something all at
once?
And talk about people losing their
license, there were thousands of doctors
in France and Australia that literally
just It was almost immediate if they had
tried to help somebody with COVID. And
before you know it, you know, in in
early 2020, the Federal Trade Commission
came out with the COVID Misinformation
Policy.
Federal Trade Commission. What do they
govern? Neutraceuticals and supplements.
Before you know it, a great company in
Salt Lake, Clear, Nate Jones, the CEO,
Nate Jones gets a lawsuit from the
Federal Trade Commission saying, "You're
being sued, you personally, Nate Jones,
and the Clear Corporation, for studying
your products, which are nasal sprays
and gargles against SARS-CoV-2.
>> Just studying?
>> Just studying. He was putting the
results on his website. That's all that
Nate was doing. This went on for 4
years. They tried to drain him dry
on legal fees.
>> What what what was the charges? If so if
they're if they're suing him, what are
they saying that he's doing incorrectly?
>> It's violation of their policies. That
in a sense these policies were corrected
were erected. I faced the same thing
with the American Board of Internal
Medicine. I had no idea a policy was
coming.
But as soon as this policy is violated
now there's an opportunity for the
government or whatever authority it is
to inflict harm. A professional reprisal
against him in the case of the Federal
Trade Commission happened to Dr. Eric
Nepute.
He was running a a company vitamin D.
Eric had great data on vitamin D. It
turns out vitamin D
there were seven clinical trials showing
that it actually helped prevent
COVID-19. Those with higher vitamin D
levels, they had lesser severity of
illness. All the data were positive. No
safety concerns.
He gets nailed by the Federal Trade
Commission and it just keeps going and
going. So something happened and it was
even worse for our colleagues overseas.
>> What
What do you think
was what how did it get uniformly
adopted across the entire world? Like
what was done to get all these different
countries
to put all these different rules
in line?
>> All at once. You know, in my first book
I had I had to
sit down and write a book. This what
happened was so mind-blowing and you're
actually in the book. Uh two of them.
>> I'm in the book?
>> Yeah. Oh, nice.
>> The first one is Courage to Face
COVID-19. And the title we come up with
this term called the biopharmaceutical
complex.
And what do we mean by that? Somehow in
the world
there was a formation
of very powerful entities. And we
believe at the core is the World Health
Organization, the World Economic Forum,
the Gates Foundation, the Rockefeller
Trust the Welcome Trust, Gavi, CEPI,
Unitaid.
All regulatory agencies. So you have the
MHRA, the EMA, Safra, TGA, FDA, CDC,
NIH. They just became aligned.
And this was building over time. You
know, these meetings that happen uh a
lot of these players are on the world
stage. And when the WHO put out a um
white paper in 2019, it was called a
world at risk. And it had a diagram.
These are all the pandemics that could
happen. Sure enough, SARS-CoV-2 was one
of them or the a SARS pandemic.
One of the four principal players at the
World at Risk
Anthony Fauci.
Shocker.
Jeremy Farrar, who was at the Welcome
Trust, who's now the lead scientist at
the WHO.
And I give credit to investigative
author Lisa Miron in Toronto who
investigated this. So listen, the world
doesn't agree on
on anything. Can't agree on currency,
can't agree on policy, can't agree on
anything. How can they completely agree
on this pandemic response?
She believes that the communication
centers the WHO. You have uh about 190
countries.
Uh
you have 140 national focal points,
which are branches of the WHO.
Ours is in Washington. It's called PAHO,
Pan American Health Organization.
And she believe all the commands really
came out of the WHO through this this
complex.
And you know, it's interesting. People
think, "Well, the pharmaceutical
companies drove it." Our belief is the
pharmaceutical are just the suppliers.
And the people who benefited was anybody
in position for a pandemic. So, wasn't
just vaccine companies, but how about
companies that made testing or that made
gowns and hazmat suits and rubber
gloves.
And the companies that did home
delivery. And you can go on and on and
on. So, if you were positioned well,
one could financially have an
unbelievable heyday with pandemics.
And one of the groups here is CEPI, a
Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness and
Innovation, who was founded by Gates
Foundation and World Economic Forum and
a few companies. They poured money in
2017.
In their business plan, it says there
will be a series of pandemics. A series
of them. Oh, just one after another like
like a storm's coming in. And in each
pandemic, there'll be a single response,
mass vaccination.
So, everything is oriented towards
a tamping down anything else outside of
vaccination.
>> Does vaccination in other countries have
the same protection from liability that
they have in the United States?
>> I don't know.
I don't know. I know
>> That's a problem.
>> Well, in 1986, that's when it was
memorialized as the the liability
protection. And and
you know, it it became
what product can essentially be mandated
for an entire population and be free of
liability?
>> Right. And then how can you take a
product that's not a vaccine and call it
a vaccine, which is essentially a gene
therapy? I mean, this is not it's not a
technical vaccine in terms of like how
we have defined vaccines in the past.
>> The connections here are
extraordinary. So, let's take Moderna as
an example.
So, Stephane Bancel, have you had him on
your show?
>> No.
>> You should invite him.
>> I didn't know he existed. Who is he?
>> He's the CEO of Moderna.
He's a He's a good-looking guy from
Europe who's got a
really intriguing accent. You know, he
>> He's the CEO of Moderna. Does he have
horns? Does he have horns?
>> Well, listen to this. He's a
pharmaceutical representative and he
becomes a becomes a distribution
supervisor for one of the bigger
companies and he's in Belgium.
In 2007,
he gets
a a he he [clears throat] gets gets a
master's degree. He's well trained in
the United States and Europe as a
business executive. He gets the job as
CEO of Biomerieux.
Biomerieux is a big lab company. They're
like Abbott Diagnostics or Roche.
They're a big company. 2007.
So, he's the CEO of a lab company in
France.
Well, guess what? That lab company in
France, guess what one of their
contracts is. One of their contracts is
to help the Chinese build the
biosecurity annex in Wuhan, China at the
Wuhan Institute of Virology.
Okay? This is beyond belief.
So, and they train the Chinese staff.
So, Bancel is overseeing the company
that's doing all this.
Then in 20 2011,
he leaves Biomerieux as a young CEO.
He's already done very very well. He
joins a tiny company in Cambridge,
Massachusetts, Moderna.
Moderna. And he's on record telling his
wife, "Listen,
there's probably less than a 5% chance
this will ever be successful."
Well, within a few years,
they've got contracts to work on
messenger RNA vaccines for different
viruses.
This keeps going and going. 2016, he's
got a patent
on part of the COVID virus.
By 2019, he's communicating with Ralph
Baric at the University of North
Carolina Chapel Hill saying, "Listen,
can we actually use your viruses and and
challenge our vaccines?" This is before
the pandemic.
Now we learned the NIH and Moderna, they
co-own the patent to Moderna's vaccine.
Trump announces that we have a national
emergency.
Five days later, Bancel says, "Well, we
have a vaccine for that."
This was all happening.
Nobody was watching.
>> Do you have any suspicions that it was
leaked on purpose?
>> I think it came out by accident.
>> So, you think they were working on it,
someone got sick, and it just got out?
>> Yeah.
>> Just bad safety protocols.
>> There are papers now written on this,
and we featured it on our Substack Focal
Points. Nicole Shirer has
uh
of these biolabs, there's leaks all the
time.
You can barely contain these things.
They're very contagious. They're working
with very contagious virus, bacteria,
fungi, spores, different pathogens.
They depend on meticulous ventilation,
sterilization. You You see these
pictures of people wearing these moon
suits.
>> actually went to the one in Galveston.
>> Yeah.
>> My friend Duncan and I, we were filming
the um Joe Rogan Questions Everything.
It was a sci-fi show that was on in the
like 2012 or something. We went down
there because we were we were
we did an episode on bio warfare. We
talked to a guy from the former Soviet
Union that talked about the bio warfare
program that Russia had.
It was spooky. It was spooky being in
that Galveston lab and these people
walking around with these moon suits on
with, you know, the vacuum hoses
attached to them. It was very weird.
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>> Well, listen, if if people started
getting really sick on Galveston Island,
that'd be the first place that I would
look.
I wouldn't I wouldn't go to a fish
market. I wouldn't go to a wet market. I
wouldn't [laughter] go down the street
to a restaurant. I'd go right to that
lab.
>> That sounds racist, what you just said.
>> What Joe, I got to tell you what.
Peter Daszak who was leading the
EcoHealth Alliance, who was helping
Baric coordinate with the Chinese.
This is astounding.
He's involved in this. You have Anthony
Fauci leading the NIAID, and this the
the funding organization that's funding
this research. Baric is the mastermind
at Chapel Hill. He knows more about
coronaviruses than anybody.
They get a lot of contracts to work on
coronaviruses. They take the research to
Wuhan.
Peter Daszak is the go-between. He's
getting the these grants to actually
help coordinate what's going on in
Wuhan.
So, when this thing gets out of the lab,
this is astounding.
And the World Health Organization says,
"We want to investigate the origins of
the virus. We're going to send a team to
Wuhan." They contact Brett Giroir, a
rear admiral. He went to medical school
with me in Dallas.
And Brett Giroir was on Trump's White
House Task Force one.
Brett Giroir says, "Great. I'll get
three American scientists. We'll we'll
dispatch to Wuhan. We'll investigate."
The WHO says, "Oh, don't no, don't send
us these independent people.
We'll take Peter Daszak."
The WHO says this. So, Peter Daszak
goes over to Wuhan. He goes, you know,
he looks around.
Boy, I
I can't figure out where this virus came
from, but I know one thing, it didn't
come from the lab.
Didn't come from any of it. His
projects.
I mean, this is ridiculous. This all
happened
under
the watch of people. I had no idea this
was going on.
>> bizarre that more people didn't push
back against it. And, you know, credit
to Jon Stewart. Did you ever see that
Jon Stewart segment
>> Yeah.
>> on Colbert?
>> Yeah.
>> Where he was making fun of the fact that
like maybe it came from the Wuhan
coronavirus lab.
And they're like, "No, [snorts] a
pangolin got in the cloaca of
>> Do you know that there were 12 papers
written? It looks like Fauci
commissioned the first one with Jeremy
Farrar at the who was at the Welcome
Trust at the time and with Peter Daszak,
whatever you. And the first paper was
written by Christian Anderson from
Scripps.
And it was written in nature.
And it says, "The natural origins of
SARS-CoV-2."
And says, you know, "By looking at this,
almost certainly it came out of nature."
In Fauci's emails and texts, they all
knew it came out of the lab. That was a
cover-up manuscript. And there were 12
more manuscripts published to this day
that haven't been retracted that say,
"Well, it came out of the lab." In fact,
Daszak is part of a manuscript
that was published in British Medical
Journal that says, "How dare anyone say
it comes out of the lab. We stand with
the Chinese who are suffering from this
right now. And the National Academy of
Sciences and Engineering stands with the
Chinese." It's amazing.
This cover-up was so big and so,
you know, ironclad. These guys weren't
going to give an inch.
>> Well, it's just amazing how coordinated
it was with all these different
countries. So many countries instituted
these draconian measures. Australia was
incredible. New Zealand was incredible.
It was bizarre to watch everyone in
lockstep.
It was really weird.
>> And
>> that could not have made sense. You
know, in Australia, they had got to one
point there was a 5 km rule.
Like well, you couldn't go more than 5
km from your house. Like as if the virus
obeyed those boundaries. Or do you
remember all the ridiculous things? One
time Laura Ingram asked me to come on
Fox.
And you know, I was always you know,
busy with patients and you know, having
to get over to the studio and have you
and then and I never know what they're
going to show me. So, he shows me this
this teenage girl. It's a sunny day and
she's somewhere in the Midwest and she's
running a 1,000 m race and she's
winning, but they're making all the kids
wear masks.
>> Mhm.
>> And she's trying to you know, get enough
what's called minute ventilation. That's
the amount of air you can move at the
maximum of exercise through this mask
and she can't do it and she collapses on
the track. She destroys her shoulder.
They have her parents on. They're upset.
And Laura Ingram asked me, "Dr.
McCullough, is this reasonable?
Is it reasonable to wear masks outside?"
I said, "No, this has been studied. You
You the virus it diffuses into the air.
You don't You can't contract it
outside." In fact, people in Singapore
tried to study this.
So, so people wearing masks outside.
There was one people somebody wearing
masks when they were in Olympic swimming
pool swimming. The mask was all
So, the masks seem to come to symbolize
a madness. Still, if you travel today,
you'll still see people wearing masks.
>> You'll see them in Austin.
You go to San Francisco, they're
ubiquitous.
They're all over the It's a what I say
it's like the Democrats MAGA hat.
It's It's It's symbolizes that you are
an avowed leftist. That you are on board
with all these different things. Do you
know the story about the lesbian bar in
Massachusetts?
You don't? Okay. This is a great story.
There was a lesbian bar in Massachusetts
in 2026.
Recently, they're going under. All
right, they tried to be communist and
they tried to have no cover charge for
people that couldn't afford it. And so
of course, everyone said they couldn't
afford it. They tried to do this this
thing where you just pay what you can.
you You know, they were trying to be
like communist. Didn't work. And so,
they talked to a financial advisor, and
one of the things that they had was a
mask policy. They had a strict mask
policy for this bar. And they said, "Why
don't you have one night a week, like
Saturday night, where it's mask
optional?"
And so, they instituted this. And so,
the people that supported the bar, that
were regulars of the bar, revolted, went
crazy, threatened to firebomb the bar,
threatened violence. It it became a
national news story. It became It's It's
so
emblematic of like how insane some
people got and continued to be that it
became a destination where people wanted
to go visit just to see how [ __ ]
kooky it was. So, it became a tourist
destination. I think it's called the
Last Ditch. Is that the name of the
place?
>> Yeah, it's now closed because they're
trying to find new owners.
>> Oh, crazy.
>> sad went under. Massachusetts lesbian
bar makes
>> frantic effort to find new owners after
relaxing masking policy in 2026. Now, we
knew in 2020 that masks didn't work. In
fact, there was one doctor, we played it
on the podcast and we got in trouble for
this, where there was one doctor who was
explaining how
uh vape, like a nicotine vape, that the
particles in the vapor are larger than
COVID particles, than the COVID virus,
and and oxygen.
>> [laughter]
>> And so,
which is why you can actually breathe
through the [ __ ] mask, right? Duh.
And so, this guy puts on these masks,
and he takes a hit of the vape, and then
blows it through the mask. And he shows
you. He's like, "These don't work." And,
you know, we were like heavily
criticized for showing that video, where
people go like, "You're showing Again,
misinformation." And then the other term
that I really love that they wheeled
out, which was malinformation.
>> Well, there you go. Well, so now we got
two out of the six.
>> know what malinformation is?
>> Malinformation is information that would
actually harm someone else, right? So,
>> No, it's factual information that turns
out to possibly cause harm.
>> Okay, factual information cause
>> Factual. Telling the truth.
>> disinformation, which is somewhere of
like not factual, but going to cause
harm. So you have misinformation,
disinformation, malformation. There's
two There's three more.
Um
anti-science. Oh, you've had Peter Hotez
on.
>> Yes.
>> He's made a whole lecture tour on that.
>> Yes.
>> he he went to my alma mater here at
Baylor and he and he said, "Listen, this
is the rise of anti-science." Now Now
listen, he holds science. So if you
don't If you're If you don't agree with
him, you must be anti-science. Again,
that's that moral superiority.
>> actually saying that? Do you remember
that statement?
>> right? So So he embodies science.
>> with Anthony Fauci, you disagree with
science.
>> So So So that's number four. Number five
is anti-vaxxer. That's a
So
That's like saying, "Well, you know, I'm
anti-hypertensive medication or I'm
anti-lipid lowering medicine or I'm
anti-penicillin."
>> I'm anti-aspirin.
>> Yeah,
this is like ridiculous. Anti-vaxxer. So
you're an anti-vaxxer. And then the last
one is conspiracy theorist.
>> Well, that one's a good one. That one's
been around for a long time. That's a
>> That's an intelligence community So I
was I was part of a video. So this gal
in Australia who is a dissident. She was
a dissident voice. Oh, she was locked up
actually at one point in time.
>> She was jailed?
>> Yeah, she put into jail.
She um
she made a video.
And I'm in it. And that they say, "Oh,
this guy is
is
spreading misinformation." She said,
"No, they're not. He's actually We're
not He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's
a rational theorist. That we're all
rational theorists. We're presented with
something that's brand new that no one
can possibly know
really what's going on. And so we all
construct rational theories that are
discussable. They're testable. So when
people immediate This is a brand new
virus and people immediately grasped for
something. And this is I think a theme
of what we learned in the pandemic is
human beings have a terrible time with
ambiguity.
>> Mhm.
>> Ambiguity. Oh, no.
>> Yeah.
>> It's a Listen, if it's a war, if it's a
virus, uh there must be no ambiguity.
>> Right.
>> We have to know everything right now.
And so, I I saw this in the prosecution
of all these doctors. Well, they're
outside the mainstream consensus.
>> Right.
>> It's a brand new problem. Consensus of
what?
>> Right. Well, especially with science.
The idea that science exists with
consensus is nuts. Like, the whole idea
is that you're supposed to be testing
these things. And it requires people
questioning.
>> Well, especially in the what's called
the inferential area of
of reasoning. This is very important.
So, deductive of reasoning. Let's take
that. Deduction is the hard physical
sciences, mathematics, physics,
engineering. So, you know, there's laws.
And if the laws are true, the roof will
stay up above us. If the laws of physics
work, the plane will take off today and
what have you. Those that's deduction.
So, deduction, there must be some truth
to gravity. There must be some truth to
velocity, what have you, because these
these equations work. We rely on them.
In clinical medicine, that's very
different. It's inference. Meaning, we
never really know the truth. We never
do. The human body is is enormously
complex. We can't ever really know but
we use inference. And inference, we try
to inch closer and closer and closer to
the truth, but we never know. And so,
because the clinical sciences are like
that,
we always have to question what people
are saying. Well, there's always a
debate. How many times have you open up
the paper but it says, "Well,
chocolate's good for you." Oh, here's
another one, "Chocolate's bad for you."
"Chocolate's good for you." It goes back
and forth. It goes back and forth.
Coffee's good for you. Coffee You know,
it just keeps going It goes back and
forth as we approximate the truth.
>> Right.
>> And so, this idea that there's a brand
new virus
it comes out of China and
instantaneously there's a consensus. And
if you're outside the consensus, you are
spreading misinformation. There's a
policy erected. You're violating the
policy. Now you're being prosecuted.
People found their entire professional
lives destroyed over this.
>> Well, Dr. Robert Malone had a great
phrase that I think he got from someone
else called mass formation psychosis.
And that this thing happens, everyone's
terrified, and then they offer one
solution. And this one solution must be
adhered to by everyone. And there again,
can be no ambiguity.
>> Right. So, that Credit to Mattias
Desmet. He's a
>> Is that the guy?
>> Yeah, he's he's he's a
a Belgium
uh
psychologist.
And he's investigated this.
And in fact, there's this mass formation
and people feel like they they actually
you know, become divided over something
like this. So, the vaccine for sure.
Have you lost any friends over this
vaccine?
>> friends. Not
Yeah, not you know, no one that I miss.
>> But many have. Many of the listeners
listening to this show will say, "You
know what?"
>> Yes.
>> After the pandemic, somehow things are
reordered in my life. That my friends or
family
>> Well, I think it's a good thing. I mean,
I think those are the people that you
really didn't want as friends in the
first place.
>> You know, my field in medicine
we can talk about anything. So, if I
if I
you know, and doctors love to talk shop.
That's all we do basically cuz it's so
interesting. So, we we we had some
social gathering. We'd be talking about
back surgery or talking about a new
medical advance.
We come up to vaccines.
I can't talk about it.
>> Right. Why is that?
>> the Heisman.
We think what's going on
um,
is that we have this in my second book.
It's become an ideology.
It's not It's not scientific.
>> Right. I had an Aaron Siri on. He's on
the right Vaccines we trust.
>> He's on the right track.
>> He's on the right track. It's religion.
>> a religion.
>> Yeah.
>> And it turns out in our book, we went
all the way back three centuries to
figure out where this came from. Where
did this come from? How can this become
religion? There's not a religion around
antibiotics, a religion about surgeries,
a religion religion about radiology.
>> Why is there a religion around vaccines?
Well, it turns out there's mankind has
always had a susceptibility
to contagious infectious diseases.
Probably more so, by the way, than other
mammals.
You know, you don't see groups of dogs
getting colds and blowing snot or
squirrels out there. What it For some
reason, we're vulnerable.
So, mankind has been vulnerable to
infectious diseases, and so there's
always been a fear. We didn't understand
them. But when infectious diseases blew
in, oh my lord, like when the bubonic
plague blew in, you know, thousand years
ago, watch out. There's all kinds of bad
things that happen.
And and
You see all different types of human
behavior when there's fear like this.
You don't understand it.
And so,
when this idea that maybe we can do
something to prevent these
horrible contagious diseases,
uh,
and and we had to start somewhere. In
our book, John Leake, who's the first
author, is from, uh, Highland Park,
Texas. He's a great Probably John's
probably one of the world's greatest
historians.
A- A- We looked around to see where did
this idea of giving a vaccine come from?
Inoculation.
We had to start somewhere, and we
started with Cotton Mather in 1721 in
Boston.
Do you have any idea who he was?
>> No.
>> So, Cotton Mather,
in the late 17th century, turns out he
was one of the advisors to the judges in
the Salem witchcraft trials.
So, Cotton Mather, he's a Puritan
minister, but he clearly believed in
witches. So, Cotton Mather, this is
horrible, and we start out in our first
chapter in the book on this.
Cotton Mather watches his wife and
several kids die of what's probably
measles.
And he can't save them. He just He would
just watches them die.
And he's like, "Oh my lord." He's
keeping his memoirs of all this. And
then he hears the story that a ship is
coming and the men on the ship had
smallpox.
And uh smallpox, very different rash
than measles.
And uh so, he takes up with Dr. Boylston
in Boston with a new project. And
Boylston has this idea of called
variolation. Variolation is taking a
little you a little pustule, the little
blister that you have with smallpox,
taking a a a blade, a scalpel blade,
opening that little blister, taking a
little bit of the the fluid, and then
stabbing it into the next person.
And the idea is, well, just give a
little bit of that fluid. They thought
it was actually a poison. They didn't
think it was
They couldn't conceptualize of an
infectious disease. It was thought to be
some type of poison, but the idea is,
we'll give you a little poison, and
maybe if you can survive that, you'll
survive a big
amount of it.
And they start up with variolation.
And it turns out Ben Franklin at the
time, who's one of the bigger
intellectuals,
uh he's kind of he's kind of ridiculing
them. Saying, "Listen, these guys These
guys are nuts. This isn't you know,
they're wasting people's time and and
and proclaiming all these things."
And then sure enough, Ben Franklin loses
little Frankie. Frankie dies of
smallpox.
Ben Franklin turns around, "Follow
Cotton Mather. He's on the right track."
And Cotton Mather at one point in time
declares in the public square, "This
process that we've come up with
is a gift from God."
That's how vaccination started. It was
conceptualized as a gift from God to
mankind. And then it just keeps going
and going and going and the bold claims
the bold claims you think you think
Fauci had some Hotspur? Louis Pasteur
holy smokes that guy made more claims.
Well, I've got a vaccine for fowl
cholera. I've got an anthrax vaccine.
They'll say well great. Where's your
notes? Does it work? I'll get back to
you later on that. And this this just
keeps going and going so that all this
hubris all this fear
money
there's always been a ton of money at
this. Edward Jenner Jenner picks up
after Cotton Mather's in the UK. He's at
the right hand of the king and queen.
So these vaccinologists
have money, power, the population is at
fear. They're providing a solution that
in a sense man
is outdoing
God. Man through vaccinology
is improving God's creation.
This is the ultimate hubris.
Man outdoes God and that's how these
vaccinologists present themselves.
Remember Fauci Fauci says I am science.
So that brings us to the coin on the
front of the cover.
This is 2022. This is a 20 euro coin
issued by the Vatican.
It's a boy
in the classic tripartite positioning
about to receive
the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
But instead
he's receiving a vaccine.
So the vaccine
>> by the Vatican?
>> This was issued by the Vatican.
>> of someone getting vaccinated.
>> Yes.
This shows you
this iconography I think is confirmatory
that what we're seeing is with
vaccinology there is a religious zeal.
There's a madness here and it's gone on
for three centuries and boy it got
turned on big time in the pandemic.
>> That same terminology that I get from
God that same terminology was used by
Kathy Hokul the governor of New York
talking about the vaccines.
>> Yeah, it was a quote by her. She said
these vaccines are a gift from God.
Same terminology. Yeah.
>> Was there any
>> [laughter]
>> efficacy to those original
smallpox vaccines where they would take
the pustule and they would give it to
people? Did that work at all?
>> We can't possibly know. It it it
it took off. Before you know it, it
became mandatory in a lot of places.
People are put in jail if they didn't
take these shots in certain
places around the world, Boston,
Toronto, UK.
It got to such a madness and controversy
that in the UK, there was a city
Leicester in the UK. They said, "We're
not doing this. We're not taking these
vaccines. This is nuts. We can't You
know, they're taking fluid from other
people. They're taking fluid from horses
and animals. You can't know what's in
it. You can't know if it's sterilized."
There were examples of people taking the
poke and then dying because maybe it was
contaminated with tetanus or staff or
syphilis.
And in Leicester, they said, "We're not
doing it. We're going to do the
Leicester method. We think how this is
happening is the kids are sleeping on
top of each other in in straw beds
covered in these pustules. When the kids
get smallpox, we're going to separate
them.
We're going to separate them and see if
we can't stop it from spreading around."
And they were right.
So, the Leicester method basically got
control of smallpox with no vaccines.
It's very important.
>> What percentage of people that smallpox
that that got infected died?
>> I don't know, but it was high.
It was high because
you know, that once you got covered in
these pustules, it didn't take much for
it to be super infected with staff.
And then once the staff took off,
remember back in the olden days, there
was a term called erysipelas. That was
just a bad skin staff infection that
would be fatal.
And all of these infectious diseases,
this is really important. You've had
Suzanne Humphries on. You've had Erin
Siri.
All of these infectious diseases came
under control before widespread
vaccination. This is very important.
>> Right.
>> Through better nutrition, sanitation was
big and personal hygiene.
>> Right.
>> That this was very big. So, we don't
have erysipelas outbreaks. There's no
vaccine for that. That's just like a
staff
you know,
streptococcal. My family was greatly
affected Irish greatly affected by
streptococcal
through the Irish as they immigrated to
the United States. My great-grandmother
died of Bright's disease at age 32.
That's post-streptococcal
kidney failure.
My grandfather, who I never met, he died
of rheumatic heart disease. Again,
streptococcal.
I never see patients dying of
streptococcal disease now, ever.
Pharyngitis,
glomerulonephritis, carditis, never.
Because we have antibiotics and we have
appropriate testing. No vaccine. This is
very important.
Decades ago, we had tuberculosis
sanatoriums in the United States.
There's no effective vaccine for TB.
So, if you go to the 63 schools of
public health in the United States and
you read through their
you know, their mission statements,
they'll tell you that vaccination was
one of the greatest public health
achievements in the history of mankind.
They almost never mention sanitation or
improved hygiene
or testing.
>> So, you think those are the primary
factors?
>> Yeah.
>> And what about nutrition? Nutrition's a
big factor, particularly when you're
dealing with cities in the winter, where
they don't have access to fresh
vegetables.
>> For sure.
>> And they don't they're very poorly
fed.
>> I mean, a great example is measles
fatalities measles tightly linked to
vitamin A deficiency.
In fact, vitamin A is so critical that
there's a vitamin A protocol. So, there
was a prospective double-blind
randomized placebo-controlled trial of
giving vitamin A to critical kids with
measles pneumonitis in the New England
Journal of Medicine and it reduced
mortality. That's just an example of a
nutritional intervention that reduced
mortality. So, in the modern day
I've said you know there's a great
hullabaloo about measles right now.
I've said in the modern day we shouldn't
lose anybody due to measles. No one.
Because we have we have modern
nutrition, sanitation, hygiene. We can
handle complications. So, the measles
encephalitis and pneumonia is very
responsive to steroids. Uh the
bronchitis, pneumonia is all bacterial.
We handle that with antibiotics.
>> Aaron Siri was also discussing how it
seems that prior measles infection
protects you from some other things.
>> You know, it may. It may. You know,
natural infection and recovery
always seems to be far more durable and
and broadly applicable. And a good paper
to quote is Bianchi and colleagues
where it was a perfect time in an
Italian medical school where they had
half the kids had kind of natural
measles immunity cuz you know, they they
were they grew up before there was
availability of measles vaccine. And the
other kids had measles vaccine immunity.
And they tested them serologically to
see if they did they have any
protection.
The answer was if you had natural
measles infection, 96% protection. You
could get it again, maybe. But boy,
natural measles, you're good. Our CDC
says today measles was so common that if
you were born before 1957 in the United
States,
you're good. You're just We just assume
you're completely immune.
The kids who took the measles vaccine,
that would be me. I took the measles
vaccine,
only 80% had any measurable protection.
And I've gone through this now four
times. I took measles vaccine as a kid.
When I went to medical school,
they checked the blood test, no
protection, take another shot. Became a
>> [cough and clears throat]
>> resident a few years later, took a
another test, no protection, became a
took another shot. A MMR shot. And then
a fourth one. I went through it four
times and I still don't have any
protection and in our book we we um
>> And how was that measured? Is it by
antibodies?
>> It's by antibodies. It's a reasonable
proxy. But in our book we mentioned Ben
Edwards. And Ben is here in Texas. Uh
Ben went to Baylor just after me.
Doctor. He's out in West Texas taking
care of the Mennonites. Remember a a
couple years ago there was an outbreak?
He's taking care of the Mennonites and
he's communicating with us and I
actually I talked to some of the
Mennonites myself.
And Ben says, "Listen, I took all these
measles shots." He goes, "I I'm not sure
I had any I have any protection." And
sure enough he sent me a picture. He's
covered head to toe with measles. He's
taken four measles vaccines. So the
point is the measles vaccines, well they
have dropped case count, terrific,
they're not perfect. And our CDC is
deceptive about measles reporting. Now
this is very important.
When they when they categorize people
they're not going out and investigating
each case. They're getting feeds from
state labs or even the commercial labs
and other sources. And unless somebody
really can somehow show their vaccine
record and prove it to somebody, the CDC
says
they're unvaccinated or vaccine status
unknown.
It's a very dishonest way of
epidemiological reporting.
>> So they say that just to downplay the
the possible
effect
>> the failure of the vaccine.
>> of the vaccine.
>> Right. It's intentional and they do that
as part of their reporting. And I've
looked into it. Well, how how do you
determine if it's unknown? They said,
"Well,
if somehow the vaccine card isn't made
apparent to us, you know, and this is
through data systems and stuff. No one's
going to be able to get a vaccine card
through some data system."
>> essentially assume someone's
unvaccinated if they get measles.
>> Correct.
>> One of the least scientific aspects of
the COVID pandemic was
if you had had COVID they still required
you to get vaccinated.
>> Now that was interesting. Because in
2020 when they were doing the clinical
trials,
this is very important. So if
Moderna, Pfizer, Janssen,
they said, "Listen, they're doing a
clinical trial.
Oh no, we're not going to take anybody
who's already had COVID. We're not going
to take anybody who has any antibodies
to COVID.
We're not going to take women of
childbearing potential or pregnant
women. No, no, no, the vaccine either is
not going to work or it's not going to
be safe. We just want virgin cases.
Okay, well, they do their clinical
trials. December 10th, 2020 when it
rolls out, they said, well, damn the
torpedoes, everybody takes it.
So, wait a minute, just 2 months ago you
excluded people with natural immunity.
Now, why do they suddenly need it?
That's part of this madness
about vaccines. And it goes it goes even
further. Now, it says, listen, you can
get COVID any number of times, it
doesn't matter, take more boosters.
Take a booster, get COVID, take another
booster.
And you know, I had patients in Dallas
who were, you know, very much uh
zealots over vaccines. They would go to
the pharmacy and say, you know what?
I'm feeling a little insecure. Can I get
another shot? Can I just get an extra
dose? Pharmacies would get them extra
dose.
>> [sighs]
>> Do you think that they were vaccinating
the people that had prior prior
infection
because they wanted to get rid of the
control group?
>> I think there's a sense in this vaccine
world. Part of this vaccine ideology is,
you know, man outdoes God.
But the vaccines aren't perfect. It's
very important.
So, the vaccinologists will tell you the
vaccines aren't perfect. So, in order
for this to work,
everyone must take them.
Everyone, without exception.
Without exception, because it's for the
betterment of humanity. It's for the
greater good. And if some people are
harmed or somebody's already had the
infection,
and they can't possibly benefit, we
don't care, because this is for the
greater good. And this has gone on for
centuries now.
>> But it that's it literally makes no
sense. Like one of the things we found
out very early on was that prior
infection was up to seven times more
effective at preventing a reinfection.
So, this is something I brought up to
Sanjay Gupta when he came on the
podcast.
>> Yeah, what did he say?
>> He said, "You had COVID. Are you going
to get vaccinated now?" I said, "Why?" I
said, "No, why would I?
You know that prior infection is far
better to prevent
another COVID outbreak. Like, why?
>> Yeah.
>> And he had no answer.
It didn't make any sense. He knew it
didn't make any sense, but it's a
religious thing. Like, he wanted me I
had another friend of mine who's a
vaccine cook who uh you know, he was
like, "Now that you've had COVID, are
you going to get vaccinated?" I go, "Why
would I?" I go, "You know that prior
infection is better at preventing a a
getting it again." Like, I don't
understand.
>> get chicken pox, you don't go get a
chicken pox vaccine.
>> Right.
>> Right? So,
>> It didn't make any sense, but it was
this thing where you had to become a
part of the team.
>> Well, that's interesting, right? It's
almost as if
it's almost as if there was a marking
there. You know, have you Have you seen
on social social media where people put
their their band-aid?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Like, Jason Kelce
No, Travis Kelce. Travis.
>> Mhm.
>> Travis puts the blue band-aid on.
>> Right.
>> It's part of the team.
>> Well, he also got paid.
>> But, you know, this is the type of
thing. But, there is a symbolism of of
being on a team.
>> Yes.
>> You take the vaccine, you take it for
the greater good. Uh damn the torpedoes.
You know, there were three papers that I
was quoting
that showed if you previously had the
infection if you previously had the
infection
you actually were harmed by taking these
vaccines. So, there were more serious
adverse events. Things that landed you
in the hospital because your body's
immune system is already jazzed up. You
don't need to juice it some more.
>> Right.
>> So, there's actually harm. That's the
reason why the FDA and the company said,
"No, no, no. If you've pre previously
had COVID, you shouldn't get the shot."
And to to just change
in 3 months and just throw out all of
that regulatory
pathway except the good clinical
practice. And I think the worst example
is pregnancy.
That's
the golden rule is we never
use experimental new things on a
pregnant woman. Never, never, never. And
in the clinical trials, there was no way
that a pregnant woman was going to get
one of these vaccines. Even or even of
childbearing potential.
Do you know in the first week of the
vaccine campaign, I'll never forget
December 10th, 2020,
3,000 American women
who were pregnant, who are largely
nurses,
took the vaccine.
No one at the vaccine center said, "Wait
a minute.
Uh we shouldn't do this." And before you
know this, American College of
Obstetrics and Gynecology said, "You
know what? Give it to them. Give it to
them at any time during pregnancy."
Without any rationale.
It was complete malpractice.
>> And what was the side effects of that?
>> It was horrendous.
Uh
great credit to Jim Thorpe, he's on the
chief medical board with me at the
Wellness Company, uh
uh uh obstetrician, called this out
immediately and said, "Listen, this is
madness." Tom Shimabukuro at the CDC
puts out a a paper in the New England
Journal of Medicine
doing the math, it looked like the
miscarriage rate in the first trimester
could be as high as 84%
of women losing their babies.
Now, in reality, we can't really tell
cuz they didn't have full 9 months of
data.
Uh a standard number is to lose a baby
in the first trimester is 15%
miscarriage rate.
Finally, after all of this back and
forth and letters to the editor in the
New England Journal of Medicine,
Shimabukuro and the CDC said, "Listen,
uh we really can't tell you the real
number.
But whatever it is, it isn't good."
We saw rates of miscarriage, and there's
now Thorpe and others have published
extensively on this, rates of
miscarriage went up. Rates of
stillbirth, which is losing the baby in
the second trimester, that should be
less than 1%. That happened to somebody
in my church. This is horrible. The baby
was fine. They take a shot and all
suddenly the baby's not moving.
That's it. Then the baby has to be
extracted. And then in the third
trimester, what can happen is
uh there can be premature delivery. Now,
the baby is premature, can have uh you
know, preemie neonatal ICU, all the
complications of intracranial
hemorrhage, premature uh lung disease,
etc. It's a disaster
to do something like this during
pregnancy. And the rationale is
these vaccines are very strong. They
cause a very high fever.
And you cause a fever, that inflammation
and and react- reaction,
the uterus and the baby don't like it.
And you know, fever is one of the
single greatest triggers to lose the
baby or have an premature delivery.
>> And the vaccine gives you fevers.
>> For sure.
>> Boy.
And they weren't operating on any data
when they were recommending it to
pregnant women and administering it to
pregnant women.
>> None.
>> But yet they were saying it's safe and
effective for pregnant women.
And they were encouraging pregnant women
to take it because they said that the
risk of getting COVID was far greater
than the potential harm of getting
vaccinated while pregnant.
>> There was a paper by Paneles and
colleagues in also internal medicine. It
looked at that. What happened if
pregnant women
uh
contracted COVID.
Turns out because they're young and
healthy and robust and pregnancies and
an immune
uh
you know,
one of the strongest states of natural
immunity, pregnant women did better than
non-pregnant women.
>> But what about fever?
>> That
>> Honestly, pregnant women getting fever
while they had COVID.
>> They could again, that's a risk for
That's a fair point. So, COVID itself uh
could be a risk factor for miscarriage
just like influenza or any other fever.
It had to be managed. Turns out
hydroxychloroquine was perfectly safe
during pregnancy. There's actually been
randomized trials of using that in
lupus. I've used hydroxy in pregnant
women. Ivermectin turned out to be safe.
We had monoclonal antibodies,
bamlanivimab, safe during pregnancy.
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Um monoclonal antibodies were
very effective, but made incredibly
difficult to get at one point in time.
What was that about?
>> There's a paper in medical economics,
2020, said Operation Warp Speed's going
to deliver monoclonal antibodies.
The US invested in doses for every
single one of us.
Every single one of us. These monoclonal
antibodies, I used them hundreds of
times, Joe. They were safe, they were
effective, they were miraculous. They
really worked. They should have been in
every single nursing home. They should
have been in every ER, every urgent
care. Anybody really sick should have
gotten a monoclonal antibody. Do you
know of all the patients admitted to the
hospital with COVID only 15% of them got
monoclonal antibodies?
>> Well, there was a there was actually a
policy at some hospitals where once you
were admitted to the hospital, they
would no longer give you monoclonal
antibodies.
>> Right. And it happened I was advising on
two patients here in Texas just south of
Dallas.
Husband and wife, he's a pastor, his
dad's a pastor, I know him well. Um
the husband and wife get really sick
with COVID. They come to the emergency
room. They give her monoclonal
antibodies and say, you know, you're
well enough, you go home, take care of
your five kids. They look at him, he's a
little heavier guy, they said, "Oh,
you're too sick, we're admitting you."
They don't give him monoclonal
antibodies and he dies.
It can't be any more clear.
>> the reasoning to not give him monoclonal
antibodies while he's sick?
>> That that that reasoning was well, it
that wasn't the way it was tested in
clinical trials. It was only tested in
outpatients.
What my viewpoint on this is that this
is where clinical judgment comes in.
And if I was running the show at the
top, I would have made sure everyone got
these monoclonal antibodies. And when my
patients were anywhere close to the ER,
I made sure that they got these
monoclonal antibodies. I held them up in
the ER. I said, "Listen, you're not
going in the hospital until you get
monoclonal antibodies." But it took that
type of forceful clinical approach to
make that happen. And the fact that
people were denied monoclonal
antibodies, which are emergency use
authorized, fully FDA endorsed,
expensive, Operation Warp Speed,
that tells you something. That tells you
something about what this pandemic was
really about.
>> Well, the what it I had heard was they
wanted to
they wanted to limit the use of
monoclonal antibodies because they felt
that it contributed to vaccine
hesitancy.
And so, one of the things that happened
during the pandemic was
when I had gone public with I made this
video and said that I got what happened
was I had some shows that I was doing
with Dave Chappelle and we had to cancel
the shows. And I had to say in this
video, "Hey, I think it was it was
Nashville or New Orleans. I had to say,
"Hey, I we have to cancel the show this
weekend. I had COVID." This is when CNN
turned my face green on television. I'm
sure you saw that, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Um I had said all the different things
that I took and I said, "I feel great.
I'm fine, but we have to cancel the
shows. We'll reschedule them." And
that's when I started getting attacked.
But what what happened was I had gotten
phone calls from everyone that I knew
who knew anyone who got sick.
Um what did you take? My aunt is sick.
My uncle's sick.
I sent nurses, private nurses to I don't
even know how many people. I lost track
of it. I just had an account and I paid
for all of it. I just had sent nurses to
people. People that I didn't even know.
Actors that I never even met in person.
They reached out to me on Instagram. I
called them. We talked. I sent a nurse
to them. I paid for all of it. I don't
know how much I spent. I spent a lot of
money on it. I just sent I was like,
"Look, I'm going to save these people's
lives." And one of the things that we
administered to them was monoclonal
antibodies.
Um and I did it to a lot of [ __ ]
people, man. A lot of people all over
the country. Comics, all these different
people.
>> You remind me of this gal I met on
social media on Instagram. Her name is
Nurse Michelle. You should check her
out.
She's that middle-aged gal like a bunch
of kids and she's just a good lady in
rural North
Georgia.
She saw this happening. She said, "This
is so horrible. I don't care about the
law. I don't care about the rules." She
stocked up her minivan with every drug
she could possibly get a hold of from
overseas. Ivermectin,
hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics,
steroids. She reached out to me. I had
published a McCullough protocol in the
American Journal of Medicine. She was,
"I'll follow your protocol, Dr.
McCullough." She went around Georgia
just treating patients. She didn't have
a medical license. She just did it. She
goes, "I don't care. This is about
saving lives."
That's what people did and I I know I
met people in South Africa doing that,
in Southeast Asia.
This, going back to the analogy we used,
this was a war.
>> Yeah, what I was going to get to was
>> somewhere along this process
uh we couldn't get access to monoclonal
antibodies anymore. So, I was sending
all these nurses out to administer IV
vitamins, a bunch of a bunch of
different things. And then it got really
difficult to get monoclonal antibodies.
And one of my friends in New York was
really sick. And we had to get him
monoclonal antibodies. And it was like
one of the last available doses of
monoclonal antibodies we could get him.
And we got it to him and he got better.
But it was like really weird.
>> And you know there were six of these
that were FDA emergency use authorized.
And then one after another they were
taken off the market.
>> And this is all about vaccine hesitancy.
>> Well, they were taken off the market
saying, "Well, the the virus mutated.
These probably won't work."
Well, wait a minute. If the virus
mutated and these probably won't work,
then why are we still continuing with
vaccines?
>> The exact vaccine that was for the wild
virus.
>> So, here's the point. This whole
pandemic, my analysis is this was about
mass vaccination.
>> Yeah.
>> Treatment, and if you go through the
warm-up exercises. So, the SPARS
pandemic that was Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health in
2017,
where the hypothesis is the virus is
going to come out of
um Brazil. And again, there'll be
controversy over treatment, but we're
going to railroad vaccines. And then
Event 201, which is October of 2019, New
York City. Again, Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health. There
the Chinese CDC is there, George Gao.
He's paired up with Avril Haines, who
becomes our Director of National
Intelligence. Now, the virus again, it's
a coronavirus, but this time it's coming
out of Southeast Asia, maybe the
Philippines.
Same story. We're going to have
confusion over treatment, but the real
answer is to railroad mass vaccination.
So, we're back to this biopharmaceutical
complex,
the vision of CEPI, which is one of the
key players that said, "Listen,
no treatment. No treatment.
Assume the virus is unassailable.
Even if you find something that works,
don't use it.
Let's feature vaccines."
>> And this probably has something to do
with profit and also the fact that
they're immune to liability.
It could be it could be just this this
religion
with vaccines which goes back a long
way. It is a head scratcher cuz believe
me these monoclonal antibodies there was
Lilly, Sanofi, there was a lot of money.
It was thousands of dollars per dose.
This was big money.
In many ways per unit it was way bigger
money than the vaccines. And they really
worked.
But there was something about the
narrative and what I call the false
narrative. The false narrative was this
virus is unassailable. Don't you dare
try to treat it. It turns out Operation
Warp Speed gave a pretty pretty good
answer which was the monoclonal
antibodies.
And you know for the first 2 years
in terms of at home the only oral drugs
we had the first year we used
hydroxychloroquine plus the other
generic. Second year ivermectin.
The third year that's when Paxlovid
comes in. Paxlovid which is a
combination drug
by Pfizer. And it's not it's not great
but it's not bad and you know the large
randomized trials there was a reduction
in hospitalization and death. I had
patients use it. It's a little slow to
work and there's some rebound and drug
interactions.
But even then our government didn't
feature this.
This is again this is so curious.
Is we've got this. Why is it not
featured? Why is it still vaccine
vaccine vaccine?
>> why did they feature things that turned
out to be very detrimental like
remdesivir?
>> Oh.
>> Then you know nurses what they used to
call it?
Run death is near.
>> The WHO November of 2020
comes out with a statement with the
European Society of Critical Care. They
look at this. They say listen, don't use
remdesivir. It doesn't work.
And it has toxicities. This is the WHO
backed by a very solid physician group.
They put this out there.
You know, a year and a half later in
Lancet, they revisit the original
recommendations. Now they've got the WHO
solidarity, they have all the trials,
and they say, "Listen, we were right.
Remdesivir still doesn't work. It's got
kidney and liver toxicities. It should
never have been used."
What happens in the United States? We
frontline Remdesivir.
Against the WHO.
>> How did that happen and why?
>> absolutely no idea.
And when I ask my colleagues in the
hospital, they give me blank stares.
>> Cuz Remdesivir was not formulated for
COVID-19.
>> No, it was a a failed Ebola drug.
And
the WHO is strictly saying, "Do not use
it." It's still on their website.
>> And it had that side effect, the
particular side effect, one of them was
kidney failure, that didn't exist with
COVID-19 infection.
>> No, there was a risk of acute kidney
injury with severe illness, but this was
additional toxicity and you know, I had
several patients get it. So I I had
patients, you know, getting sick, going
in the hospital.
I don't think I had a single It was It
was a 5-day series. I didn't have a
single patient get through 5 days
because it was so toxic to the liver. We
would see the liver injury numbers
skyrocket.
>> So liver was the big one.
>> Liver and kidney. They The liver can
rebound, the kidneys can't. So some
people ended up on dialysis.
>> So what I had heard was there one of the
red flags was the high instances of
kidney failure.
>> Yeah.
>> And that this wasn't It didn't match up
with just COVID-19 infection. That it
was much more rare, is that what it was?
>> No, it's a correct analysis. That's a
correct analysis. These people were very
sick. But the fact that you had Health
and Human Services go directly against
the WHO. And you know, a lot of other
countries didn't even use it.
>> So who recommended Remdesivir?
>> Well, HHS at that time was Alex Azar.
That was under Trump 1.0. Then under
Biden, we had Xavier Becerra.
And
we had Robert Califf, who was the FDA
chair.
Why didn't they relook at this? Why
didn't they have a meeting with the WHO?
None of this can be explained.
>> [sighs and gasps]
>> Yeah, the the remdesivir one was very
disturbing because um
a doctor that I talked to said under no
circumstances allow anyone that you know
to take that stuff.
>> Right.
>> And I and I was like, "Well, well, what
is it?" Like I There was very weird to
have someone say that. And they said, I
I don't understand why people are
prescribing this for COVID-19 infection.
It Not only does it not seem to be
effective, but it seems to be deadly.
>> Right.
>> Which is like, how is that possible that
that got through?
>> at that time there was a critical study
published in one of the best journals
for pulmonary medicine called Chest. The
first author is Raster from Florida.
It's called the ICON study.
And there was a group that got
ivermectin in the ER and continued
during the hospitalization and a group
who didn't. So, it's a very good It
wasn't a randomized trial, but it's very
good, you know, heat of the pandemic
here in Florida, lots of senior citizens
getting sick. Ivermectin has over a 50%
reduction in mortality. Very safe. It
was They had matched, case matched, all
the you know, all the ways they can
control to make the two groups basically
be comparable. Ivermectin hands down
saved lives.
And when that trial came in, I said,
"That's it. Every single person should
not only be getting monoclonal
antibodies, but if they get admitted to
the hospital, they should be getting
ivermectin."
And before you knew it, we started
seeing the emails come out. Don't give
ivermectin. Don't treat iver- Don't
treat anybody with ivermectin. And
Pierre Kory, who you've had on your
show,
ultimately published, I think, the
best-named book in the entire pandemic.
It was called The War on Ivermectin. Our
regulatory agencies launched a war on
ivermectin.
Matter of fact, the AMA in 2021
came out with an official policy. This
is This is a trade group for doctors,
American Medical Association. It says,
"Our objective in this campaign is to
abolish the use of ivermectin."
>> Something Something that has a 50%
effective rate of stopping
hospitalization and death.
>> And it was the most rapid-acting drug.
So, we saw patients, we ultimately
published on this. Sabine Hazan in
Melbourne gets great credit. Dr.
Eleftherios Gkikas down in Rio Grande
was in our team.
Tom Borody, who's passed away from
Australia. We had a great international
team. We showed that ivermectin can
actually recover oxygen levels in people
sick at home. People with low oxygen
levels. We had patients in South Africa,
United States. I had several my
patients. I had
a couple that their oxygen saturations
were so deeply low. They said, "Listen,
if we go to the hospital, they're going
to put us on the ventilator.
We're going to die. We're not going to
come back from that." And they were
right. The early ventilator mortality
rates were through the roof.
And so, we let their oxygen saturations
go down. Now, a normal oxygen saturation
right now you should be over 94%.
The hospital started getting worried
when we saw below 90% or 88%, what have
you. They started putting people on the
ventilator, typically in the '80s. I had
these people at home, and they had home
oxygen.
You know, then COVID was a long illness.
This was 2020, 2021. In the '70s. In the
'70s.
And they go to the kitchen, maybe get
something to eat, and they go into the
'60s. And I'd say, "Here are the rules.
Can you manage the work of breathing?
Can you I know you're a little
breathless, but have you ever been to
Pikes Peak or been a You know, you're a
little breathless, but you can manage,
right? So, this idea of can you manage
the work of breathing and can you think
clearly? It's very important. So, if
there's mentation and you can manage the
work of breathing, we can It's called
permissive hypoxemia. Turns out it was a
brilliant strategy. And when we
published these papers, and Eleftherios
Gkikas is the first author from UT Rio
Grande,
We realized, "Oh my god, all these
people who are put on the ventilator, it
wasn't needed." The vast majority, we
could have just allowed the oxygen
saturation to go down, provided we were
using ivermectin in the multi-drug
protocol.
>> So, what this war on ivermectin? Do you
think that this was about vaccine
hesitancy? This was about people found
out that you could use ivermectin. And
you know there's that famous Rolling
Stone article, which never forgive them
from. It was so disgusting. They showed
a bunch of people waiting in line at a
hospital, and they said that people were
waiting in line for the emergency room
with gunshot wounds because so many
people were overdosing
with veterinary medication, ivermectin.
They were calling it veterinary
medication, of course. I mean, that's
They called it horse dewormer on CNN
with me.
>> Oh my god.
>> Do you remember that article? It's a
crazy article because the people that
are waiting in line, they're wearing
winter coats. These people were waiting
in line for the flu shot.
>> Right.
>> It wasn't It wasn't the same It was a
July in Oklahoma or August in Oklahoma.
>> It's complete fraud. Do you know they
the FDA had out there it's only a horse
dewormer and all these things.
So So, Paul Marik,
uh who was one of the best critical care
doctors in the world, um
uh Dr. Apter from Arizona, Mary Talley
Bowden, who you've had on the show,
they sued the FDA.
They sued the FDA and said, "Listen,
you're making false claims about
ivermectin." The FDA gets lawyers, and
they start to, you know, engage. The
lawyer said, "Okay, uh we'll take down
all our false information."
So, the FDA under Biden and Robert
Califf, who is the commissioner of the
FDA, had a false
campaign on ivermectin to dissuade
people from using it.
>> What is the root of this? Like, what is
the original person that says, "Go out
and do this"? So, it has to be
>> Joe, it was in Australia. It was in
Europe. It was in India. You know, they
they tried
They tried it. There was a There was a
guy who came out from Emory, Indian
doctor from Emory said, "Listen, my mom
just got revived with with Ivermectin."
That guy got squashed in 2 seconds. All
over the world there was some type of
incredible force to squash
what I think was the most valuable drug
out of all the drugs in the pandemic. I
think I put Ivermectin number one, I put
steroids number two, and and down the
line. We used about five or six drugs in
combination. So, we get to just this
last hearing that Ron Johnson has.
And one of the most spectacular
witnesses is an attorney Ralph Lorigo. I
don't know if you saw this. So, people
started contacting him and saying,
"Listen, my loved one's in the hospital.
I think they could be saved with
Ivermectin. The doctors and hospitals
are not allowing him to get Ivermectin.
I can't bring it in to him.
I want to I want to get a court order to
get him treated."
So, of 62 cases where he got the court
order
and they actually got the Ivermectin
into the patient,
they lived.
Of the over 100 100 cases where they
didn't get the court order or they got
the court order and they still blocked
the Ivermectin, they all died.
And what Lorigo said, "Listen, I'm a
lawyer.
This isn't a randomized trial. It's not,
but these are the data.
What I'm telling you is if we would have
had Ivermectin, monoclonal antibodies,
McCullough protocol, which involved
nasal sprays, gargles, all the vitamins,
secondary antibiotics, aspirin,
colchicine, antithrombotics, McCullough
protocol, as I published it in the in
the American Journal of Medicine, was
more extensive than what people got in
the hospital. I've testified under oath
that 85% of these deaths could have been
avoided."
>> How is that possible in 2020, 2021 with
the internet, with all the available
information, with people being able to
speak freely? How is it possible that
they suppress this information to such
an extent that they suppress doctors
using this on their patients, supposedly
people that that been in their care, so
probably a lot of people that they knew
and loved and
watched die.
How is this possible?
Censorship made it possible. The power
of YouTube censorship and Google and
Twitter and all of the social media any
one of us trying to you know
we're making observations. We're finding
things that work
and we're putting out these observations
were crushed and I tell you it wasn't
just social media. It was in the medical
literature.
So I'm thankful. You know, I published
the most widely used protocol in the
world. It probably saved tens of
millions of lives, spared hundreds of
millions of hospitalizations. The
pandemic would have been a lot worse
without my protocol published American
Journal of Medicine, which is you know,
right up there with the New England
Journal of Medicine. But when I got
these letters to the editor in
I got one from
Miguel. I got one from Manash in
Australia. I got one from Brazil.
Uh they said, "Dr. McCullough, you can't
do this. You can't treat COVID patients.
You don't have enough evidence." That's
what Ashish Jha told me in the US Senate
November 19, 2020.
And I was there with George Freed.
George George Freed was with He was with
Fauci at the NIH 50 years ago. George
Freed said, "I'm using
hydroxychloroquine other drugs in
combination. I'm in California. There's
tons of Hispanics. They're pretty poor
baseline care and I'm saving them."
He treated 6,000 patients. Mary Beth
treated thousands of patients in
Houston.
We're reporting what's working.
I was told, "Listen, you can't do this.
You don't have enough data. We'll only
have enough data
for the vaccines."
That's what Ashish Jha said. And you
know what? The next day in the New York
Times, he publishes an op-ed.
Now I'm senior to him by a mile in
academic medicine. He has done nothing
compared to me. And you know what he
publishes?
That I'm a snake oil salesman. I'm a
snake oil salesman of the snake
>> Is that guy still working?
>> I think he's back as being a dean
somewhere in the northeast.
>> Wow.
>> So, we saw stuff like that happen and in
the medical literature we began to see
retractions now. Wait a minute.
Retraction. I've been an editor of major
journals for decades. I've never
retracted a paper because the the
submission and peer review process is so
arduous and so intensive. Some papers
can take years to get published. But
when they're published, they're
considered valid. People may not like
them. They can write letters to the
editor. We can debate things.
But what we saw is we saw papers
retracted.
So, any paper that actually showed that
therapeutics could work was threatened.
Potentially could be retracted. Any
paper that found saw any flaw with the
vaccines, watch out.
And so, what we'd get these notices that
said, you know, we had a problem with
reference 42 and 43.
That's not a reason for retraction. You
know, questioning administratively of
reference.
And yet these administrative retractions
started coming in from all over. And And
so, uh
now the medical literature became
tainted
and biased.
And it's biased in only one direction.
And it is favoring vaccines and
disfavoring everything else.
>> There's another thing I want to talk to
you about when it comes to vaccination
during a pandemic.
Previous literature had pointed to
discouraging vaccination during a
pandemic because it encouraged variants.
>> You Geert Vanden Bossche, uh
a virologist,
uh
he's actually a doctor of veterinary
medicine, but he had uh put that
statement out in a valid way
that we should never vaccinate in a
pandemic. Never.
Because when you get a viral infection,
it's up there in the nose, you know,
it's percolating by the way for about a
week. You never know it's there. And
then it drains back to the throat and
lymphatics. You get a sore throat.
That's the first sign you think you have
a virus. You've already had it up here
for about 7 days. It's percolating.
You're You don't have a single viral
strain.
You probably have a thousand different
substrains. Just the virus replicates,
it makes little mistakes. You introduce
a vaccine. The vaccine has antibodies.
The antibodies in the nose are called
IgA. There's certain cells that can
recognize the um the virus in the nose.
They're keyed in
on a certain strain. Well, the virus
that's there
that can escape this and thrive, it's
going to thrive. That's evolution That's
an evolutionary principle.
So, of course, in a widely prevalent
respiratory viral pandemic,
vaccination is the worst strategy.
>> Especially with a leaky vaccine, a
vaccine that does not prevent infection
and
>> sterilizing. Right. See, it it's not
sterilizing and it can't be sterilizing.
I- If you had
because the vaccines were all coded for
one part Oh, and Joe, I have to give you
your virus at this stage.
>> You're going to give me a virus?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, boy.
>> Um I brought this all the way from
Amazon.
>> You're going to give me a virus from the
Amazon?
>> Yes.
>> And oh, amazon.com?
>> to give you three of them.
>> Oh, okay.
>> So, here you go. So, this is the
example.
>> now?
>> Yeah.
>> How's that work?
>> So, listen, all these guys are all
SARS-CoV-2, but they're a little
different, okay?
>> Okay.
>> So,
the vaccines, Pfizer, Moderna, Janssen,
and Novavax, they're only directed
against the spike protein, which is this
little spike on the surface.
It turns out there's like 30 other
proteins inside the nucleocapsid. So,
all the virus has to do is change its
spike protein a little bit and it's
free.
See, it's very different than a
sterilizing vaccine. A sterilizing
vaccine would be comprehensive against
many, many different proteins. Even if
you changed a little bit,
you could the body's immune system could
wipe it out.
>> Can you give me an example of a
sterilizing vaccine?
>> You know, there there's not good
examples for viral vaccines. So, for
instance, influenza vaccines are not
sterilizing, pertussis vaccines are not
sterilizing.
Um it's hard to understand me. Maybe
some of the bacterial
vaccines, I'd have to put some I'd
probably have to consult an expert on
this to tell you the truth.
But but the idea is for sure going after
the spike protein alone was a mistake.
Because that that that's actually the
most
pleomorphic or mutational part of the
whole virus. You know, they they the
envelope protein, the nucleocapsid, they
don't change that much. But the virus
would just say, "Listen, I'll just
change the spike protein." And so there
were papers by Accorsi, a Cherian, uh
and others that measured the viral load
in the nose and mouth of the vaccinated
and unvaccinated.
And they were the same. This is in 2021.
So vaccinated were going around with the
virus
and they were equally as contagious.
They were infecting other vaccinated
people.
And there was a a paper from Houston
Fearing Hope said an entire vaccinated
wedding and they all got COVID, you
know, all taking the vaccine.
So in August of 2021,
Rochelle Walensky comes out.
And this is a this is a press release.
Said, "Listen, got a news release.
The vaccines are not stopping
transmission of the virus." She says it
officially.
What happens within a few months?
All the employers in the Biden
administration and the athletic teams
say,
"Vaccine mandates."
So they mandated the vaccines after the
knowledge that they don't stop
transmission. The only reason to ever
mandate a vaccine would be that it was
going to protect the workplace.
>> One of the more egregious bits of
propaganda was Rachel Maddow on TV
saying the virus stops with you. Do you
remember that? If you get vaccinated,
the virus stops with you.
You can't infect anyone else. You can't
get infected.
We can get out of this. The virus stops
with you.
>> What made her so Joe, what made her so
confident?
>> Well, she's a lesbian.
>> [laughter]
>> If you're a lesbian on television, you
have incredible confidence.
Also, she's wearing a nice suit. She's
on television.
>> She has got the longest neck. I I don't
know what It's like a giraffe.
>> She's obviously very smart. That's why
she's so confident.
>> I think
I think [laughter]
that
people
>> [snorts]
>> he them people have a hard time with
ambiguity.
>> I don't think that. I think they were
giving a mandate. She was I was think
she was told to discuss it in that
manner.
>> But listen, you never said that. I never
said that.
>> Well, I certainly didn't. I got in
trouble for not doing it.
>> what people ask me. Listen, I'm a
doctor. My this thing came was rolling
out. My patients were asking me, "Dr.
McCullough, should I take a vaccine?" My
honest answer is, "I don't know.
I don't know if they work. I don't know
if they're safe. So, ambiguity, that's
the important point. There was nobody in
the public health apparatus that that
could even live with ambiguity for a
second.
>> Did you ever see the Facebook call with
Mark Zuckerberg dealing with the entire
state where he's like there's a call
where he's like warning people about
this? Where he's saying we don't really
know what's going to happen
[clears throat] with this gene therapy.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. This is like early on.
>> But can you [snorts]
>> Well, by the way, do you remember during
Trump's administration was when all this
was discussed? And all of these people,
including Kamala Harris, all these
people were saying, "Are you going to
trust a vaccine that Trump comes up
with?"
I'm not going to trust it.
>> that.
>> Do you remember that? Yeah.
>> Yeah. Oh, I'm not going to take
>> that switch over when Biden became
president? Then everybody trusted it.
>> And then nobody called him on it.
>> It's the exact same vaccine, but yet
because Trump wasn't involved anymore
and it was Biden promoting it, everybody
was gung ho for these same exact
medication that they wouldn't trust
because Trump was a part of it.
>> Well, why would a medical problem get
politicized? It affects both Democrats
and Republicans.
>> in this stupid country.
>> But it it this is the type of thing
where you would say, "Listen, they're
not going to take a vaccine under Trump,
but under Biden it's the same vaccine,
they're going to take it."
>> Yeah. But this
is this madness that we saw through the
pandemic, but sadly people were harmed.
I'm on record the US Senate saying that
85% of these deaths
of COVID deaths could have been spared
with an intensive early treatment
program at home continued through the
hospitalization including monoclonal
antibodies and Ivermectin. Listen, when
Paxlovid came in or Molnupiravir,
terrific. Believe it or not, we have a
drug now that's approved for
post-exposure prophylaxis in really sick
patients called Evusheld. I can
prescribe it and people can take it once
they've been exposed to COVID. There's
even a monoclonal antibody pair called
Pem- Pemgarda. I can uh prescribe that
and give it an infusion every 3 months
if I had a really sick and frail person.
People who who had organ transplants and
other serious diseases,
they were more prone to death not
because of the virus,
but because of their frailty. This is
very important.
>> Their frailty. It turns out for the
viral infection, we actually gave
immunosuppressants. Steroids are
immunosuppressants. So, being
immunosuppressed itself was not I mean,
I've had people with heart transplants
who went through it. That's not the
problem. It's the frailty. And you know,
the opposite. When we got to people,
look how big and strong you are, Joe.
You get to people There's a paper by
Daniels and colleagues um from uh the
NCAA uh and uh there was a two papers uh
in college athletics. Do you know by
2020, 30% of all college athletes and
kids had already had COVID in 2020? By
the time we get to 2022, 70% had gotten
COVID. And you know, among all those
athletes,
no serious cases, no hospitalizations
and deaths.
>> Right.
Importantly, there was no data at all
that showed that the vaccine stopped
infection or stopped transmission. So,
when they were saying that so
confidently on television, they were
completely talking out their ass.
>> Well, you knew it. The The The original
trials, remember it was 1 month of the
primary series and they kind of cheated
on that. So, the primary series in the
vaccine group, you weren't considered
an infection An infection didn't count
until after two shots.
But, in the placebo,
it did. See, that was they It was
modified intent to treat. That was
actually cheating. You should count all
the infections in both groups equally.
There's an analysis by Michael and
colleagues that had nailed this down.
But, in the clinical trials, there's 1
month of getting the shots, and there's
2 months of observation. So, when Rachel
Maddow says that,
or anybody says that at month four, no
one could have known. The trial was only
2 months after the primary series. So,
that That's an example
>> people? What What was it about them that
made them say it so confidently?
>> a wishful
It's I think people are wishful that
they take on this this religious zeal
around vaccines. And I've been looking
for the memos. I'm a frequent
contributor on Fox. I go on all the
stations. I'm looking for the memo that
says, "Listen, become a zealot over the
vaccines." I never got any memo like
that. And I saw it happen worldwide, by
the way. So, it's all over the world. I
think there's an infectious, contagious
groupthink around this.
>> Mass formation psychosis.
>> people There's um
There's a word uh
about people
who mimic their other people's
behaviors. They just They hear
something, and and they just kind of
chime in. And it is called a mimesis.
There was a mass mimesis, and people
fell into this.
And And this is stunning that very few
people
could see it. Now, once you could see
it, seems like you could see it right
away. I could see it right away.
>> Well, I couldn't see it right away. I
almost got vaccinated.
You know, the UFC allocated a bunch of
vaccines for all of their employees. We
were doing shows during the pandemic in
a place called the Apex Center. The Apex
Center is a very small arena that the
UFC has. And what they did was they had
shows where they would put on fights,
but they COVID-tested everyone, and all
the staff, all the corner people, and
all the fighters. And so, you would show
up you I got tested before I got on a
plane. I would landed, I went to Vegas,
I got tested in Vegas, and then you had
to isolate, and then you had to show up
for the event. They told me, "We have
the COVID vaccine. Do you want to take
it?" And I said, "Sure." This is early.
The UFC was the first organization. It
uh I wish I could remember. I don't.
But, it was the Johnson & Johnson is
what they had allocated. One shot,
you're done. I'm like, "Okay, give it to
me." So, I showed up on a a Saturday.
And I I showed up for the event, and I
said, "Hey, can you vaccinate me?" I was
going to get vaccinated before the
fights. So, I got there in the morning,
and I was like, "Can you guys vaccinate
me?" And they said, "Yeah, we're going
to get the the doctor. We'll call you
right back." And then they said, I I
talked to the doctor. He said, "We can't
do it here. Can you come to the clinic
on Monday?" I said, "I can't come on
Monday. Um I have to leave tomorrow, but
I'll be back in 2 weeks for the next
event. Can we do it then?" They said,
"Yes." Great. During that two week 2
weeks, two people I knew had strokes.
Two people after taking the shots.
>> That you knew personally?
>> Yes. One that I didn't know personally,
that but a good friend of mine knew. And
then one that I knew. And and a bunch of
people got really ill. And it was weird.
And I said, "Hang on.
What's going on here?" And that's when I
started to get a little hesitant. Cuz
one of the guys was 50 years old and
very healthy. And I was like, "This is
weird." It was weird. Um and I just
started getting a little nervous. And I
was never vaccine hesitant at all. In
fact, uh
there's been podcasts before where I was
mocking people where that were
anti-vaccine. I thought it was
ridiculous. Like, I I had thought that
all the science had been settled.
Vaccines were the most important I mean,
I had a joke that I did in my my last
comedy special. Before COVID, I thought
vaccines were the most important
invention in human history. After
vaccines or after COVID, rather, I was
like, "I don't think we went to the
moon." Because I was like, "I think
there's so much horse [ __ ] There's so
much lies and so much propaganda." I'm
like, "This is I don't believe anything
anymore. Like, this is crazy. So, I'd
gone through that and then I said,
"Okay, let me figure out what's going to
happen." Then my family got sick.
And my wife got sick and my kids got
sick and I never got it. I had a couple
of days where I felt a little weird in
the gym. So, I just worked out lightly.
But, I work out almost every day and I
have a very strict vitamin protocol. And
I I'm I take vitamins every day. And I
take a bunch. I take all kind of I
[laughter] take vitamin D. I take
vitamin A, K2,
>> Bring it on.
>> D3. I take it all. And I'm very healthy.
And I think it's part of that. And I'm
I'm a firm believer in supplementation.
This is not just voodoo. It's just me
talking to scientists and me talking to
doctors and me talking to athletes in
particular.
And so, uh I was hesitant about it then.
And then I knew multiple people that had
problems. Multiple people that had real
problems. One of one of my friends had
to get a pacemaker. He was in his 40s.
Yeah, um uh another one that I knew
started blacking out. He had to get a It
was a
a friend of mine good friend of mine's
brother who was a dentist. He had to get
a pacemaker. And he was in his 30s.
Okay, it was it got really [ __ ]
weird. And I was like, what is going on
here? Now, I had already known about
certain side effects of pharmaceutical
drugs that had been suppressed. Um you
know, one of them was uh Vioxx because I
knew a guy who had a stroke who was a
UFC fighter who was a real elite athlete
and he had, you know, knee problems and
arthritis and he took Vioxx, had a
stroke. And I was like, what the [ __ ] is
going on? I was like, so something weird
is happening and I knew that vaccine or
ex- excuse me, pharmaceutical drug
companies would put out medications that
they knew were going to have potential
deadly side effects. And Vioxx wound up
killing somewhere around 50,000
Americans, right?
So, I started getting hesitant. But,
then when my family got it and I didn't
get it and I slept with my wife, I slept
in the bed with her and had sex with
her.
Um I hugged my kids. I didn't do [ __ ] I
didn't wear a mask. I didn't I'm like
I'll I'm like I think I'll just get it
and get it over with, but I didn't get
it. I was like, "This is weird." I
thought this [ __ ] was just going to get
you like a ghost. It was going to haunt
you and you're if if you're around
people that have COVID, you're [ __ ]
But no, I didn't get it at all. And the
only time I got it
was a couple like a year later or two,
whatever it was, I was in Florida and I
had done a bunch of shows. I was doing
arenas, right? So I was doing stand-up
comedy in front of 15,000 people.
Everyone's laughing, which is like the
worst way, right?
And uh my friend John, my friend John
Shulman, who's a
a guy who makes pool cues. Shout out to
John Shulman. Good buddy of mine. Um he
and I met up to play pool and we played
pool till like 5:00 in the morning and
had a bunch of margaritas, had drinks. I
was exhausted at the end of it. And then
I started feeling terrible the next day.
And that's when I got COVID. But it was
just because I had destroyed my immune
system by staying up till 5:00 in the
morning playing pool and drinking.
>> Well, if you heard of germ versus
terrain, right? So the idea is you
probably had the virus many, many times
in your nasopharynx.
>> Mhm.
>> And your immune system is working,
working, working. You just have enough
of a
>> Yes.
>> of a wrinkle in it, then it or you get a
big enough inoculum.
That is, you know, you get enough of it
at once. Now interestingly
>> I think it was my immune system being
dis-
>> Right. You just get a little
>> It was me getting drinking. I think the
drinking was the thing.
>> So um
the the vaccine you were going to take
is Janssen. Janssen was an adenoviral
vaccine. So it's not messenger RNA. So
this is a replication incompetent
adenovirus. It gives the genetic
instructions temporarily for your body
to make a massive amount of the spike
protein.
>> Right.
>> Massive.
>> Right.
>> And the adenoviral vector itself is
thrombogenic.
And so and by the way, uh Janssen and
AstraZeneca are nearly the same. They
were made by the same manufacturer,
Emergent BioSolutions out of Baltimore.
A biodefense contractor. It's kind of
interesting. Why is a biodefense
contractor making a human vaccine for a
pandemic?
Anyhow, so you have AZ and you have
Jansen going. None of the companies make
their own products. They subcontract to
biodefense contractors.
>> Oy.
>> Moderna is made by a company called
Resilience.
Uh anyhow, back
>> Funded by the DOD.
>> Back on the story. So, the point is
this one was so thrombogenic. There's a
disease named after it. It's called
VITT.
Vaccine-induced thrombotic
thrombocytopenia. So, the platelet count
goes down, massive blood clots form,
blood clots form actually in the brain,
the major sinuses in the brain.
This is horrible. And when that happens,
there's a 30% mortality rate. People
have to have their skulls opened. There
were huge blood clots forming in the
legs, shooting to the lungs. It was so
bad that was AstraZeneca and Jansen, you
know, we got to mid-pan-
And and and
court cases were were coming up all over
and they both withdrew their vaccines.
Pfizer and Moderna had the same blood
clot problems and they stuck with it.
They should have all pulled off. And you
avoided a nightmare.
Because that vaccine was a blood clot,
you know, threat to anybody who took it.
It's very important to understand that
all of these vaccines have risks and
benefits.
They
COVID vaccines, the equation is so
stilted towards risk and so minimal and
theoretical benefit. It became the most
obvious example of something really
going wrong in a in a biopharmaceutical
equation. And when I've pushed
artificial intelligence,
and I've said, "Listen,
look at the major journals, Lancet, New
England Journal of Medicine, British
Medical Journal,
New England Journal of Medicine. I've
published in all of them.
And I said,
"Find a paper
where the conclusion is that the risks
outweigh the benefits.
You can't find one.
100%
no matter what say that the theoretical
benefits outweigh the real risks. Now,
you go elsewhere, you can find the
papers. What does that tell you? There's
editorial bias. They're not going to
allow a paper in one of these big
journals that concludes this. And I can
tell you with anything else in medicine,
there's balance. If you take a papers on
statins, there'll be a paper saying,
well, you know, the the risks outweigh
the benefits here. The the back surgery,
there's always a balance. When it comes
to these COVID vaccines, there's no
balance. It's a 100% bias, and I think
it comes from the originator. So, these
papers come from large academic
institutions.
They all mandated the vaccines. All the
authors took the vaccines. They pushed
the vaccines on their patients. Do you
think a paper's going to come out from
Harvard or Baylor or Emory or UCLA
concluding
that [snorts] the vaccines, the risks
outweigh the benefits?
That paper is not even going to be get
out the door.
>> That's terrifying if it's true.
>> It's true. I
>> But I know it's true.
>> Because I was a division chief. I was a
program director. I was a chief academic
scientific officer. I had to sign off on
these papers. If I was at an institution
where there was a mandate and a paper
like that came, and I'm sure they're out
there,
there's no way they would get approved.
>> Now, one of the things that's really
disturbing is reports that people today,
5 years after they've been vaccinated,
their body's still producing spike
proteins.
>> We published the first Ho Shering
colleagues. We published this in the um
European Society of Medicine Medical
Archives. Patient of mine.
He's uh
worked for a pharmaceutical company.
He's trying to do the right thing.
Uh
in 2014 before the pandemic, he has a
blood clot, which people can have and uh
he got treated for it.
So, we knew clinically he was at risk
for blood clots. So, he takes two
Pfizers. What happens? He gets blood
clots and they shoot to his lungs with
two Pfizers and he develops myocarditis
proven by MRI.
His employer says, "Listen, it's time
for boosters. You got to take a
booster."
He takes a booster. He has even more
blood clots.
He said, "Listen, this is nuts. I'm
going to die with these things." So, he
sees me. We engage in research. We do
blood tests, skin biopsies, everything.
And we do repeated samples.
We use a lab in Germany
doing research. We find Pfizer intact
and circulating in his blood
and the spike protein for 3 and 1/2
years after the shot.
How in the world can the vaccine be
there? There's little pieces of code for
it.
And it has to do with a Nobel Prize
winning advancement called
pseudouridylation.
And what happened
is in the development of messenger RNA,
which is a very long development
history. It goes back to the '80s.
There's a paper by Lelani and colleagues
that outlines this. There's people have
working on this forever cuz it it's a
wonderful way to make a peptide, by the
way. To talk about making designer
peptides, messenger RNA would be a great
way to make peptides cuz that's what it
does.
So, you take messenger RNA
and it your body is making it right now.
It's It's reading it. It's producing
proteins. You're producing your your
making proteins. You're and I are making
proteins when we're talking to each
other. That messenger RNA is single use.
Natural messenger RNA is dissolved by
RNA aces, ribodeoxy nucleases. So, it's
single use and you make more. You
So, when synthetic messenger RNA came
along and you gave it to patients back
in the '80s or '90s,
the body would dissolve it. Wouldn't do
much.
And then the idea and Karikó and
Weissman had this idea. There's four
base pairs for I and uh RNA. Adenine,
guanine, um
thymine and uh uracil.
Replace the uracil with a synthetic
nucleoside analog called pseudouridine.
So, what happened in the Pfizer and
Moderna development program and Karikó
and Weissman had
you know, were going to win the Nobel
Prize for
inventing this in 2022 and they got it.
Is they said, "Okay, let's replace 25%
of the uracil. See if it lasts longer."
Well, it lasted [snorts] a little bit
longer. Well, how about replace half of
them? Lasted even longer.
And they got down to the end they had to
make a decision. They said, "Damn the
torpedoes. Replace all of them."
And when they did that,
they made a synthetic messenger RNA that
appears to be nearly completely
resistant to any human breakdown.
It's synthetic.
And so now there's a a molecule in
people's bodies
that for some they can't degrade it.
They can't
get rid of it.
And one of these was my patient. Now,
there's polymorphisms in our enzymatic
clearance system. Some people have loss
of function mutations in there. They're
the ones who are probably accumulating
messenger RNA. Other people are clearing
this out just fine. But the scary
proposition is there are people who have
taken this vaccine, Pfizer Moderna, it's
still in their body, it's still
producing spike protein, it's
accumulating, and then sure enough,
look what just happened to um
Chris Murphy.
Sure enough, 4 years after a shot,
stroke.
>> And people are still taking this.
>> Very few.
>> But enough that I've seen people post
about it online. Like
openly bragging or at least
>> You know that
>> signaling that they're
following the science.
>> The CDC quit keeping track of who
actually took boosters in 2023.
>> Why?
>> Almost certainly because of low uptake.
And so, what happened is they rely on
what's called NIS, the National
Immunization Survey, which is a robo
phone call. Talk about getting robo
phone calls. This is election day and
you know, they were pouring in last
night. So, a robo call comes in and
says, "Hey, we want to talk to you about
taking vaccines. Are you going to take a
COVID vaccine?" They ask you a bunch of
questions and it's only those people who
answer it. So, the CDC started in 2023
said, "Listen, we think 15% of people
are taking boosters."
From a robo call, not from actual data.
So, last year the McCullough Foundation
said, "Listen." And this foundation I
started to do research since our
organizations are not doing the research
that we need.
We said, "Listen, let's take the data
from Pfizer, Moderna, the sales data,
where they said they sold the vaccine
units, what they charged for it, what
the revenue was, what the wastage was,
and we can figure out how many doses
were delivered."
Answer, last year
it was 8.9%
of people took a booster last year.
This year, I think it's going to be
under 5%.
>> That's still a lot.
>> I know, but our government's, you know,
contracting for billions of dollars.
>> Right, but which is horrifying. But, if
all the things that you're saying are
true
and that the risk outweighs the reward
and that with many people your body
continues to produce spike protein years
later, how in the world
are they still prescribing this?
>> I think there's some people who clear it
out.
Listen, my neighbor is somebody he's
taken every shot he He He To him it's
like an elixir.
He He
He [laughter] He He He is fine.
And I have people in my family who are
fine. They They have very high antibody
levels to the spike protein, meaning the
messenger RNA is chugging away at spike
protein, but this is another part to the
secret here.
If you have the vaccine in you and
you're producing lots of spike protein,
these little spikes,
but the antibodies that are made to it
are perfectly keyed to the spike
protein, can neutralize it, neutralize
it, neutralize it. It's a perfect
system. Now, it may not prevent COVID
because a variant over here can just get
around it, but you're going to stop the
vaccine spike protein being produced.
If there's any wrinkle in that, and
there's IgG1 and 2 neutralize the spike
protein, but IgG3 and 4, particularly 4,
do not. If there's what's called IgG
subclass switching, and we get to, you
know,
the immune system essentially gets tired
of seeing this, and get to IgG4, then
you have unopposed spike protein.
Now, we're in trouble because if there's
unopposed spike protein, there's a paper
by Yonkers and colleagues in circulation
showing that's what damages the heart.
So, it explains why you can have one of
these athletes,
and he's going along fine, took some
shots several years ago, and all of a
sudden, boom, a cardiac arrest. That's
called COVID vaccine subclinical
myocarditis, and then a cardiac arrest.
We've seen this in athlete after athlete
after athlete.
Uh you know, when Damar Hamlin went down
[clears throat] for the Buffalo Bills,
you know, he's he's playing, God bless
him.
But, when he went down, Fox called me.
Tucker was That was back when Tucker was
on Fox.
And they said, "Listen, you're a
cardiologist. Can you come on?" And so,
I I watched it. In fact, I had a friend
there at the game. We were texting about
what was going on.
I said, "Sure, I'll go on." And And the
first thing that I was asked is, "What
do you think caused this cardiac
arrest?" And I said, "Well, the tackle
is ruled out." This is very important.
When there's trauma, is what we have
what's called the mechanism of injury.
The mechanism injury is your common
sense assessment of can this mechanism
cause this event?
So, if you had a car wreck like this,
and there was a broken neck, you'd say,
"No, the neck was not broken from the
car wreck, right?" That The mechanism
wasn't sufficient.
When you have a football helmet, and
there's a breastplate, there's no way
that can precipitate a cardiac arrest.
It's never happened in the history of
pro football, ever.
So, I knew it wasn't the tackle. He had
tackled him. He got up. He was about
ready to clap or adjust his helmet, and
then he collapsed.
That's a vaccine cardiac arrest. He had
a big surge of adrenaline. He had
vaccine myocarditis.
A That's the perfect milieu for a
cardiac arrest. He got very good
resuscitation. He probably aspirated
some Gatorade cuz I was watching what's
going on. So, he had some of that in his
lungs.
Gets to the hospital, has a perfect
resuscitation, perfectly normal cardiac
function, no heart failure. He passed
all his tests.
In fact, I was watching that and I said,
"You know what?
If he got McCullough protocol spike
detoxification, which is my second
contribution to what's going on here,
and he can get rid of this spike
protein. And his critical drug treatment
was a drug called colchicine, which is
very safe. But all the myocarditis
patients need colchicine. I said, "I bet
he can avoid getting a defibrillator."
Virtually everybody has to get a
defibrillator if they have a primary
arrest because this is a form of cardiac
arrest that's treatable with spike
detoxification, which is nattokinase,
bromelain, and curcumin, and natural
products, plus colchicine. Super
important. And we wrote the Buffalo
Buffalo Bills doctors, wrote the Buffalo
Evening News.
Of course, they never write back. But I
would lay odds that Damar Hamlin has
gotten my protocol. He's never needed an
ICD.
And he's back playing. So, this is very
important. I have many patients in my
practice like this. They don't need
ICDs. This is a very important message.
If there's vaccine myocarditis in a
cardiac arrest, if they're appropriately
treated for the spike protein and get
this out of the heart, out of the
system,
they can be fine.
>> Well, we saw a lot of athletes during
the pandemic drop.
>> Yes.
>> And it was really disturbing,
particularly soccer players who have
some of the best cardio you've ever
seen. The car- soccer is all about
cardio. It's all about leg strength and
cardio and coordination, [clears throat]
obviously, but they're running
constantly. If you ever watch a live
professional soccer match, it's
extraordinary. I mean, these guys are
constantly sprinting.
And it wasn't a common thing to see them
drop. But we saw a lot of it during the
pandemic.
>> It was a Athanasios Palaiokostas and
myself published in the European
leagues, uh, pro and semi-pro under age
35. We had all the data. tenfold
increase in 2021 when they rolled out
the vaccines and they forced them to
take it. Tenfold.
And the best example is Christian
Eriksen, Danish soccer player. He has a
primary cardiac arrest. For sure, you
know, everybody denies the vaccines or
their managers say they they all took
the vaccines. I'm going to tell you
right now they did.
And
he he actually gets a defibrillator. He
gets a subcutaneous ICD. My fear is that
he never got it properly treated with
spike detoxification and with
colchicine. And you know, about 5 years
later he just had a second arrest.
And and the defibrillator saved him. But
check on your patients who needed
pacemakers. I guarantee they had vaccine
myocarditis and I have patients like
this, too.
None of my pacemaker patients now
actually need the pacemaker.
So that they can interrogate their
pacemakers, Joe, and they can ask the
question, does the body need the
pacemaker now or is the body managing
its own rhythm? If they're appropriately
and a wellness company, we've come up
with um
ultimate spike detox, which is one if
you go on Amazon, you'll find a lot of
these products, but ultimate spike detox
is high-dose medicinal grade
nattokinase, bromelain, and curcumin,
which most people need
to get out of this problem. It's vital.
It's reason why we formed the wellness
company in 2022
because we were fulfilling an unmet
need.
>> What was the
rate of adoption in professional sports
in the United States? Was it all sports?
I know the NFL, my friend Aaron Rodgers
had a real issue, obviously. You know
that story. Where he was actually
allergic to one of the ingredients in
one of the vaccines. So he had a very
legitimate medical reason for not taking
it.
And yet he was raked over the coals.
>> Oh, they didn't they make him wear a
special band and
and all of this? But isn't it
interesting? You have Aaron Rodgers at
the time
Aaron was the number one quarterback in
the league at that time. He was the
number one.
You had the number one tennis player,
Novak Djokovic.
You had Kyrie Irving who's probably one
of the
top people in the NBA.
All of them said, "Listen, my body is
more important than this. I don't need
this vaccine."
Eric Clapton, greatest guitar player in
the world.
Does it, you know, he takes a vaccine.
>> it and had a horrible reaction
and was really attacked. Like they wrote
a horrible LA Times article about what a
terrible person he was because he talked
about the side effects of
>> play for a year. Yeah.
>> Eric told me he couldn't play for a
year.
He had a baseline neuropathy. He
couldn't play for a year. These other
superstar players aren't going to take
it.
And yet the punishment they received
for and and sadly people did take it.
Damar Hamlin, Christian Anderson, all
these athletes who had cardiac arrest.
Look at Bronny James who had a near
miss, LeBron James' son. You had Ewu
Chuku who played for USC. He has a USC
mandated the vaccine. So 100% these guys
took the vaccines, the USC basketball
team. Ewu Chuku, he has a cardiac
arrest. He actually gets a
defibrillator. He got a transvenous
defibrillator in.
There's all these players out here who
are damaged. What I hope
is I hope Cam Newton is right. And you
know what Cam said, you know, Cam kind
of grumbled about the vaccines and
Atlantic wrote a horrible piece about
Cam. You know what ultimately he said?
>> What?
>> He said
I think a lot of these people got fake
vaccine cards.
>> Oh, they definitely did.
>> Yeah.
>> I personally know people who got fake
vaccine cards.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz they needed to travel.
>> Now, think about it. This is a war.
Nobody's being honest with us.
Governments are not being honest with
us.
Why would people be honest with a a
paper card?
>> Right.
>> Where somebody is scribbling writing.
Now, in Europe, they actually had
electronic systems. In Canada it was but
United States it was a lousy paper card.
Half my patients can't even find their
cards for crying out loud.
>> What is this supplement that you're
talking about?
>> um company, Ultimate Spike Detox. This
is high-dose nattokinase, bromelain, and
curcumin, plus minor ingredients.
>> Classic.
>> It's natural. And this is what we use,
Joe, to clear the spike protein out of
the body. It has very, very good
supportive data. Nattokinase gets inside
and outside of cells.
>> that.
>> I take it myself. It dissolves the spike
protein. Um it's antithrombotic. It
helps fight blood clots. And it is our
lead
product. And we intentionally didn't
patent this. Now, it's it's copyrighted
my name, so people can locate it.
But we intentionally didn't patent it
cuz the whole world needs this stuff.
And if you were to go to Amazon right
now and type in Spike Detox, you'd see
about three dozen rows of products. All
different companies. Wellness company's
the lead. We've done this since 2022.
But the point is
if people get on the right
detoxification protocol,
Spike Detox is huge. Another thing you
do a lot of
that really helps is sweating.
>> Mhm.
>> If you sweat, do you know the messenger
RNA Pfizer's been shown in breast milk?
Breast milk is modified. It's It might
as modified sweat. Uh in my patient, uh
we did skin biopsies.
>> So kids are getting vaccinated through
their mother's milk, essentially?
>> Yes.
>> Oh god.
>> And the spike protein and the and the
vaccine's been found in the placenta.
>> Ugh.
>> But Joe,
the body can heal
and get rid of this. I want to be very
hopeful to people on this. They have to
stop taking more shots. Most people
have.
Get on Spike Detoxification and find
whatever protocol. Now, this is a blood
thinner. It's very important. This is a
minor blood thinner. So people on blood
thinners, I use this in conjunction with
blood thinners, but I'm a doctor and I,
you know, oversee this.
But you know, we have four
US senators now with premature stroke,
which is a blood clot.
>> Nick Hoult Stetter.
>> Yeah, Nick Hoult Stetter. At McCollum.
>> how you say his name. He um posted
something today that 5%
of Democratic senators or Congress
people
>> 9%
>> 9%
>> 9% is 4 out of 45. It's 8.9%. So Nick
and I were on Newsmax last night
>> Explain what they got.
>> Okay, so
>> the 9%
>> Okay, so it's 4 out of 45 Democratic
senators right now have had a stroke
before age 65.
So these people are younger than me,
Joe, and they've had a stroke. So we
just had Chris
>> How unusual is that?
>> It should be way, way that less than 1%
of the population ever has this happen.
And they publicly take vaccines. So
Chris Murphy
>> performatory
>> Right. Listen, I took the vaccine. So we
have Chris Murphy, Chris Van Hollen, Ben
Ben Ray Lujan, and we had um John
Fetterman. Now, Fetterman had atrial
fibrillation back in 2017, which is a
risk factor for stroke and blood clots,
not on blood thinners.
He may have gone into heart failure. He
had leg swelling and problems. He
publicly takes the shots in 2020, 2021.
2022, in the milieu of atrial
fibrillation, not on blood thinners, he
has a stroke. Now, he has trouble
speaking.
Last night I told Rob Finnerty on
Newsmax, I said, "Listen, I think
Murphy's going to be fine. I usually
have good judgment on this.
Uh it's probably an internal capsule
stroke, which is a little strategic
place in the brain that that can be
dissolved and he'll come back fine.
Uh my mom had internal capsule stroke.
Um the one thing I've done is I've not
been wrong, and I've been on the I've
been on um
primetime news now probably hundreds of
times over the last 5 years. I'm not
wrong. When Damar Hamlin had a cardiac
arrest,
I said, "Listen, he's going to come
back. He's going to walk out of that
hospital and he'll be just fine." You
know Mark Siegel, who's on Fox? Mark
says, "Oh, we need to raise money for
his family. He's a goner. He'll never
survive."
It's like, you know,
we need to have doctors who are right
and can give accurate information to the
public. And if we ever have another
pandemic, I I I can tell you right now,
I think I don't think people are going
to trust the government. They're going
to be going directly to people who have
been right all along.
>> I think you're right.
Another thing I want to talk to you
about, cancer.
How many people
who took these vaccines have aggressive
cancer?
And ironically, including the former CEO
of YouTube who actively suppressed all
the information about anything that had
anything that was remotely critical
about the vaccines, she got cancer. Like
super aggressive cancer and died.
>> As a doctor,
if you were to tell me there's a product
I'm a biopharmaceutical product that
would cause heart damage and myocarditis
and cardiac arrest and heart failure and
blood clots.
The spike protein is directly in the
blood clots.
And it would cause autoimmune problems
because the body attacks itself because
the spike protein is on the cell
surfaces.
And it causes neurologic problems like
transverse myelitis and Guillain-Barré
syndrome, of which all those four
disease categories for sure the vaccines
do. If you were to say, "Listen, Dr.
McCullough, just for kickers, it causes
cancer." I'd say, "Come on.
How can one product do all this? This is
a mind-blowing
reality.
So, a paper that caught my attention was
by um
was by uh
um Bustos.
And it was published in Curious Journal
of Biomedical Sciences. And it's titled
The Multi-Hit Hypothesis
of COVID-19 oncogenesis. That is, how
the vaccines can actually promote
cancer. And it showed a variety of
mechanisms.
And Sutherland and Baylor 1984 said,
"Listen, if something's going to cause
cancer, it's not by a single mechanism.
It has to be by multiple mechanisms
meaning multiple things. So, a good
point is smoking causing lung cancer.
It's because there's 2,000 components to
tar.
There's too many things together that
can cause cancer.
So,
it makes sense that geez, the COVID
vaccines, how could this happen? Well,
the messenger RNA can impair DNA repair
cuz it gets in and kind of screws up the
genetics.
The um spike protein can interfere and
does interfere with two major suppressor
systems that actually help defend
against cancer, P53 and BRCA.
That
we have a situation where
now a paper by Cantazaro and Holscher
has shown there's probably about three
dozen mechanisms
by which the scale has been tilted
towards cancer.
Now this year a paper by um
uh Eldairy, who's at Brown,
uh Wafik Eldairy, very well-respected
oncologist,
has analyzed this. There are 66
peer-reviewed papers showing both the
infection
and the COVID vaccines probably tilt the
human equation towards cancer. The
vaccines far more but just the infection
alone.
I'm greatly concerned. 2025, Joe, Time
magazine
on its cover has all these young people
and says, "Where's all this cancer
coming from?"
Wait and and Katie Couric is out there
on our podcast, "Where's all this cancer
coming from?"
They go out to cancer centers all over
the United States. Time magazine said,
"Well, what do you think's going on?
Cancer in certain areas, not all
cancers, but some cancers are really
skyrocketing."
And the doctors say, well, they look
around. Well, maybe it's cell phones,
maybe it's microplastics, maybe it's
something in the air, maybe it's None of
them considered the fact that we just
went through a worldwide pandemic with a
virus that was synthesized in a Chinese
biosecurity lab and that two-thirds of
the world had taken genetic vaccines.
Not a single person they interviewed
thought of that.
>> No, I guarantee they thought of it. They
just didn't want to say it.
>> This is it's it's a mind-blowing
reality. Did you see that the Irish
runner McGee and who just died?
>> Yes.
>> Oh my lord. Now, okay, 2024,
she wins a world championship in the
1,000 m. You know what it takes to as a
woman to win a She has to be perfectly
healthy in 2024. Here we are 2026, you
know, 3/4 of the way through the year
and she's dead
of colon cancer.
>> Aggressive.
>> Unheard of.
Joe Biden, sitting president of the
United States. Now, listen, his doctor
is O'Connor.
And I can tell I'm in practice. I see
patients every day. I'm an internist
cardiologist. I examine men I examine
their genitalia, prostate exam, I order
the test. I don't have a single patient
in my practice in that tenure that has
developed widespread metastatic Gleason
grade nine prostate cancer. So, here Joe
Biden is in the White House and it
happens under the watch of everybody
right there.
He's publicly taken six vaccines.
I think Joe Biden has COVID vaccine
turbo cancer. He's a classic example and
on top of that, I think Joe Biden has
a neurologic syndrome that looks like a
vaccine syndrome. I mentioned
>> Well, he's also had strokes.
>> He's had subarachnoid hemorrhage. He's
had craniotomies. He's had So, he's been
kind of set up. But, a paper by Ota and
colleagues from Japan showed the
messenger RNA is in the brain.
It's physically in the blood vessels in
the brain. And and in my practice, Joe,
which is I see, you know, hundreds if
not thousands of patients who have
problems after the vaccines, when they
develop a syndrome, it's not classic.
So, when it's a
neurodegenerative disorder, it's not
classic Alzheimer's and it's not classic
Parkinson's, but a blend. And that's
what Biden has. So, he he shuffles his
gait. He's kind of looking for you.
Looks like he's going to fall forward,
but he doesn't have other features of
it. It's not classic. And there's a
paper by Roe and colleagues
from Korea, 8 million Koreans. They
showed that these neurologic disorders,
when they take off after the shots, they
skyrocket within a few months. Not
everybody gets them, but many of your
listeners will will tell us that yeah,
my loved one took a shot and they
developed rapid dementia
or rapid Parkinson's or Lewy body
dementia and and and and sadly a lot of
these are fatal. I I don't think Joe
Biden has long to live.
>> Well, he's old anyway. I mean
there's that. He is obviously not
healthy.
Um
I want to talk to you about SV40
and the instances of SV40 being found in
samples of the vaccine.
>> Multiple labs. Now
simian virus 40
uh
this is and it's used to by the way to
make vaccines.
So we take when you want to make
>> virus isn't used to make vaccines.
>> Well, yeah
>> Sim- simian virus 40 is used to make
vaccines?
>> is kind of how it works. It's the
culture
I know, but you want it Okay, one wants
to make a ton of messenger RNA. So this
is how you do it.
You take
a DNA in plasmid. You take a DNA, a
circular piece of DNA in E. coli.
And remember the RNA is going to anneal
to the DNA and be the complete reverse
pattern of this. So if you take the DNA
code for the spike protein
and insert a promoter, SV40 promoter,
SV40 enhancer
what's called the origin of insertion,
and then antibiotic resistance genes. So
So um that E. coli that actually has the
goods
can survive and you treat the rest of
the E. coli with antibiotics and kill
them off. Now you've got a purified E.
coli colony that can crank massive
amounts of DNA
that code for the Pfizer Moderna
messenger RNA. And that's how you can
make it in high quantities.
That's called process one. Process two,
they were making it from scratch during
the clinical trials. When they got to
mass production, they said listen, we
got to put this into E. coli."
>> That's very important, right? Because
they made it very differently during the
clinical trials than they did during
mass production. And during mass
production, so the simian virus 40 comes
from primate kidney cells.
>> Right. And it is it's a it's a
oncogene activator. It's basically a
cancer sequence.
>> Ugh.
>> So, but one is going to make this crank.
And and it was used actually
the polio vaccine got contaminated with
the SV40 back actually in the time as a
kid that I probably received one of
these shots as a kid.
Where this became a big deal with the
polio vaccines, they were using SV40.
The Institute of Medicine was called in,
they did a big review. They said,
"Listen, you got to clean up the
process, get SV40 out of polio vaccine
manufacturing." They did, but the
Institute of Medicine said, "Listen, we
can't know how many cancers, like in Dr.
McCollough, later on are going to be
attributable to these shots." That was
their final report. They said, "We don't
know."
>> Is there an
an increase in cancer post polio
vaccine?
>> We don't know.
We don't know. There's a great concern
since, you know, a decent segment of the
population received SV40 in these
vaccines. Now, hopefully it was low
enough dose and the body is hopefully
edited this out. But with the COVID
shots, when SV40 in multiple labs, David
Speaker in um
in Canada and um Kevin McKernan in the
United States and Shoenfeld in Europe,
multiple labs have said, "Listen, Pfizer
and Moderna has SV40 in it, for sure.
For sure."
Uh this was presented to Health Canada.
Joseph Ladapo, the Surgeon General for
Florida, wrote this up and presented it
to our CDC and FDA, regulatory
authorities all over the world.
No, we don't have any concerns about
this.
No investigations?
No inspections?
Think about this. Not a single country
has as a government agency opened up the
vials and inspected them for SV40.
>> That's crazy.
That is absolutely insane.
>> It's It's formally been brought to their
attention. We're concerned that SV40 is
one of these multi-hit mechanisms that
has been summarized by Kenta Sato,
summarized by Anguish and Bustos.
I'm concerned. Listen, I've got family
members who have taken this.
>> So, you you've laid out all these
different factors including SV40 and you
think that is what should have been on
the cover of Time magazine when they
were talking about all these people
getting cancer.
>> It should have Listen, we went through a
pandemic. We were all exposed to this
spike protein. By the way,
how many of your friends never got COVID
ever? Do you know anybody?
>> Yeah, I know one lady.
>> Okay, you know one.
>> No, I know two. I know a guy who never
got it as well.
>> know two out of 2,000.
>> weren't vaccinated either.
>> In my practice, I know one or two.
But, I've pushed artificial intelligence
on this. I said, "Listen, go to the
county databases. Go to the serology
databases. Go go Tell me how many people
got COVID in the world." You know what
the answer is? 97%.
So, we almost all got it. We got exposed
to this stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> And it was the spike protein
is devised in a Chinese biosecurity lab.
We all got exposed to this. Couple
important inferences. Can you imagine
way back when in the Trump
administration if we had good
forecasting and we said, "Listen,
everybody,
we're all getting it.
This thing's so damn contagious. We're
all going to get it. So, the goal is to
just get through it.
If If we can avoid hospitalization and
death, we win. Let's call in McCuller,
Corey, Silenko,
Bowden. Let's call in everybody and
let's just treat people and get them
through this. This will be over with in
2 years. Spanish flu was over with in 2
years. It was done.
If we would have
accurately forecasted this that
everyone's going to get it, we never
would have worn masks. Remember, masking
is to try to prevent getting it.
Remember lockdowns? That's to try to
prevent getting it. Hand sanitizers. All
of this stuff was
under the false
narrative that you can avoid getting it.
And again, Ashish Jha, Fauci, nobody's
come back and said, "You know what? We
are wrong, by the way. All that
contagious control was a waste of time.
We blew trillions of dollars trying not
to get COVID, and we all got it anyway."
>> Yeah.
>> It it's a mind-blowing reality.
>> Well, hindsight is 20/20 though, right?
And there was also this very distorted
perception of what the dangers of the
virus were going to be. It was listed by
some people as high as 10% mortality.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. It got crazy in the
>> a while to shake out initially. I
remember a very frightening call we had
at the National Institutes of Health,
and I was on one of the oversight panels
for NIH for years,
where initially it was like, "Oh my
lord." It you know,
we had a report in from Italy, where
doctors were dying of it, nurses were
dying of it. You know, we were
I came home and I told my wife, I said,
"Listen, this could really be it." I
mean, it was frightening
until we sorted through it. We also had
a precedent that threw us off, and that
was SARS 1.
Remember the first SARS virus? It didn't
spread over the world. It lasted about
90 days, and all this masking and
locking down and contagious control
>> [clears throat]
>> kind of contained it.
It was kind of contained.
Remember for other viral outbreaks like
Ebola, some of the real fatal ones?
>> Isn't there an Ebola outbreak currently?
>> There is, Democratic Republic of Congo.
>> I think 5,000 people have died, 10,000
got it.
>> Right, but the principle is it's
containable.
It almost certainly won't be a worldwide
thing.
>> Why's that?
>> Because the fact that it's so fatal,
and it's a contact virus, so it just
simply hand hygiene, keep of people
separate. You know, 99% of people get
Ebola can't wash their hands after they
use the toilet. It's spread from
fecal-oral stuff.
That and so far, virtually everybody in
that outbreak who gets to the hospital
is saved.
So, you can save people with Ebola. They
just need IV fluids and support. So, the
point is
viral outbreaks can be contained and
people can avoid getting it. That was
the first operating principle in 2020.
And then
when this thing broke loose
it became
more obvious over time we were all going
to get it. But I think the last time you
and I met, it's very interesting, I was
telling you how good natural immunity
was and I was citing the data. I'm
probably the only person who comes on
your show actually cite the papers with
first author. I'm nailing it down
Cowling colleagues
um
all the other papers that showed you
couldn't get it twice.
You and I met two days later on the
border of Rwanda, a vaccinated traveler
uh
uh gets COVID for the second time.
It was two days after you and I met
>> Mhm.
>> that it became known with the Omicron
variant you could get COVID twice. You
could genuinely get it twice. Before
that natural immunity held up for two
years.
>> Yeah.
>> Now you can get it over and over again.
>> I got it a second time. But when I got
it a second time, I literally I had
sniffles.
>> Yeah.
>> That was it. I
I had a nurse that was testing everyone
before the shows. So, we would do a test
not a PCR test by the way.
Um which is important. We should talk
about that as well. Um so we did a test
before the show and um I was joking
around cuz I had a little bit of a
sniffle. I just gotten back from the gym
and I said, "Hopefully I don't have
COVID." Just joking. And she's like, "Oh
my god, you tested positive." I'm like,
"No way. Like this is COVID? This is
crazy."
Um got some IV vitamins, went home
took the podcast day off, got tested the
next day I was negative.
>> Hm, okay.
>> So, I think it was on a Monday, so I
might have had it on the weekend or
something. I don't remember. I don't
remember the details. It was very funny.
>> shows you how robust natural immunity
is, right?
>> Yes. It was very quick. And by the way,
I would I didn't feel bad at all. I
literally just had sniffles and I was
laughing. Like this is COVID. This is
the second infection of COVID. Okay, I
guess I have it.
You know.
>> Well, you know, natural immunity is
cellular.
It's antibody, it's IgG, IgA, natural
killer cells. It's natural immunity is
robust and if you would have your
druthers on anything,
you'd rather have natural immunity. It's
It's true for measles, it's true for
>> COVID it was seven times more effective,
right? So, um the PCR test.
Um
you know, uh I'm sure you've seen the
video of Kary Mullis criticizing Fauci
saying he doesn't know what the [ __ ]
he's talking about and that he's a
bureaucrat and has no business telling
people, you know, and this was
this was a long time ago. This was
before COVID, you know, I think this was
uh well, he died before COVID.
Um but
the false positives were through the
roof, especially early on because they
were running so many cycles through the
PCR.
Um
how much of that contributed, do you
think, to the hysteria?
>> Oh, tons.
Here we are, podcaster is it knows as
much as a laboratory physician. I mean,
everyone knows about the PCR test. Even
kids at junior high kids and high school
kids uh polymerase chain reaction. So,
turns out that any one of the genetic
sequence for any one of these 30
proteins in this little ball,
the genetic sequence is known.
So, if one can identify a few little
base pairs of a genetic sequence that's
exposed,
that one can create what's called a
primer.
So, the the PCR test use four primers.
Uh spike protein, envelope protein,
nucleocapsid protein, and what's called
origin of assertion protein or a
sequence. So, these are not proteins,
but these are um sequences, RNA
sequences. So, four primers and you
float it out there and say, "Listen, see
if these things let's cycle it once, see
if anything comes up, cycle it again,
cycle it again." And you know, if you if
you were to cycle it and it turns
positive on the second cycle, woo, you
probably got a real thing. And four
cycles, whatever you And the CDC was
looking at this and said, "Listen,
no matter whatever you do, lab
companies, don't go past 25 cycles
because if you do, this is CDC said this
in their guidance.
They say you're going to generate a lot
of false positives. People are picking
up little, you know, surfaces of an
orange or off or off a table.
Cuz you can just ultimately get false
positives. So, what did the companies
do? They took it all the way up to like
45 cycles plus. So, the vast majority of
the PCR positive tests were false
positive and the best data come from the
employee screening studies.
So, a good one to quote is the Japan
Olympics. So, if you screen everybody
who's completely asymptomatic,
you know, every day or every week, about
1% of people over time will generate
positive, which is probably what you
found on your show. 1% will be positive.
Of those who are positive, 80% are false
positive.
So, what I've said is listen, because it
can be a potentially fatal illness and
it has consequences with employment and
have you, once we got to PCR testing, uh
certainly low cycle threshold would be
the way to go, but if we're not going to
do that, let's have confirmatory testing
with antigen testing, like rapid antigen
testing.
>> Right.
>> Like with HIV Yeah, with HIV, we don't
rely on one test. We always have
confirmatory testing. We use duality of
testing. We should have done that with
COVID. So, the PCR test became this
generator of false cases. This got
reported and what made it worse is the
PCR test
influenced attribution attribution of
mortality.
So, what now that you know the the CDC
definition of a COVID death is that if
you were PCR positive at any time and
then you died, it counted as a COVID
death.
>> Yeah, Elon was on the podcast saying
that if you got bit by a shark and you
tested positive for COVID, they listed
it as a COVID death.
>> Right.
>> And well, they also were financially
compensated for COVID deaths. This is a
problem.
>> Well, it was the leading cause of
hospitalization and the number one
hospital reimbursement for 2 years.
2 years. So,
the hospitals quickly learned the game.
They're They're in the money making
money like anybody else. They're in the
game and so they would do PCR testing.
And of interest, many of them dropped
influenza testing.
So,
someone comes in
>> 40 cycles, 45 cycles of PCR testing.
They're dropping the influenza testing
and they're getting compensated for
positive COVID results, more than 80% of
which are false positives.
>> make matters worse, Joe, some little old
person who really has influenza, they
would come in and get remdesivir.
>> Oh god.
Oh god.
>> Oh.
You know you know influenza
basically went away.
>> I know, which is wild. Wild.
Wild, which is also impossible.
Actually impossible.
>> So, it had to be gaming of the PCR test.
Gaming of And you know, there's an
example of what's going on now today of
gaming with the PCR test. And you know
what the disease?
>> What?
>> Measles.
>> Really? They're using PCR test for
measles? How many cycles are they
running?
>> I don't know, but I can tell you Quest
and LabCorp have gone bonkers with
measles testing. Now, listen, a few
years ago
>> Cuz this is all because of a lot of
anti-vax talk about measles and a lot of
that.
>> it's easy Now it's easy to ramp up the
case count. So, people are blaming RFK
and Trump. Oh, there's a measles
outbreak.
Of interest, guess what? There's a
measles outbreak in the UK. Well, Trump
and and RFK have nothing to do with
what's going on in the UK. So, testing
is going through the roof. It turns out
we've probably had a viral exanthems,
viral rashes forever and there probably
been breakthrough cases of measles and
you know, not of any clinical import.
Now, everyone's being tested and I've
looked at a few of the cases in
Pennsylvania and I'm enormously
suspicious that Josh Shapiro, who is
really taking aim at Trump and RFK,
I think Josh Shapiro has basically given
out the orders for the medical examiners
to do measles PCR testing of deaths. So,
a couple of these deaths don't make any
sense at all where there's no rash,
there's no there's no pneumonitis,
whatever, but their measles PCR, and
they said, "Oh, we've got a measles
death."
>> Oh, boy.
>> So, no. So, the gaming of the PCR and
attribution of death is something we
have to, you know, get a grip on. It's
really bad.
>> That's terrifying. It's just It's
terrifying when there's financial
incentives. The financial incentives
that existed during COVID to list
everything a COVID death, and that COVID
infections that they were financially
compensated for treating COVID
infections when in fact many of them
were false positives.
>> The And the amount of money we paid for
these hospitalizations, do you know
that even in 2023, there was a paper in
JAMA from Johns Hopkins
of Omicron.
Uh uh You know, if people ended up on
the ventilator that late in the
pandemic, you know, the mortality rate
was still 40%?
40% ventilator mortality. You know,
early in the pandemic, I was on some
calls where people talking about 90%
ventilator mortality rate.
>> Oh.
>> So,
wait a minute. We've had 6 years of the
pandemic.
Hospitals and doctors have a lot of
bravado. They want to be really good at
heart disease and cancer and surgery and
Have you ever seen those billboards
where the doctors they kind of look like
you, Joe? They're all jacked and they're
wearing their scrubs and they're like
fighting disease. Have you seen these
type of, you know, the these the the
commercials for health care? You know,
we're going to We're the best. In
Dallas-Fort Worth, everyone is claiming
to be the best.
Do you know that a single hospital
claims to be the best at COVID?
Not a one.
There's not a single hospital that said,
"We're number one. We had the lowest
mortality rate, the lowest ventilator
use. Here's our innovative protocol."
>> crazy?
>> This is wild. Not a one. This was a
number This is a cash cow. Nobody claims
to be any good.
I'm on a standing committee in the
Arizona Senate and House.
And they said, "Dr. McCullough, how can
we ever get ready for another pandemic?"
I said, "Call in your hospital CEOs and
CMOs, and let's do comparative
statistics. Let's do lessons learned.
Let's do shared um learning about this.
Comparative statistics." She said, "They
will not come in.
They will not show up.
They will not show up.
They showed no innovation.
They delivered They just had a US Senate
hearing on this. The care was horrible
in the hospital.
And they know it.
>> [sighs]
>> Why you depressing me?
>> Well, we have
We have Listen, out of the pandemic,
Joe,
good things have happened. We formed the
wellness company, Foster Coulson, CEO uh
founder from Canada, Peter McCullough,
our CEO. We've got a wonderful board. We
got Drew Pinsky, Kelly Victory, myself,
um Harvey Risch.
We have formed a nationwide global
company with our own pharmacies, our own
compounding pharmacies, innovative
products and solutions. We have
emergency medical kits. We'll never get
burned with COVID again cuz we have
pre-prescribed medications that get out
to people. We've got um ivermectin
compounded. We've got ivermectin and
bendazole, which is a wonderful story
now for cancer.
>> Has ivermectin lost its stigma?
>> Oh, I think so.
I think so. The pharmacies, if you go to
CVS or Walgreens, they still won't fill
it. But the compounding pharmacies are
very good. Wellness company
>> Isn't that crazy? The pharmacy still
won't
>> They still won't. They still won't.
>> Still won't make it.
>> But wellness company, listen, we've got
um we have the nation's Medicare care
management contract for the senior
citizens with Medicare, big Dallas
uh office and operation. That's where I
am right now.
>> What if somebody gets something that
they used to use ivermectin for before
the pandemic, like yellow fever? Will
they
fulfill a prescription for that?
>> Well, you could do any parasitic
infection, like river blindness, for
instance.
>> Yeah.
>> But my experience is
they will prescribe No, they will fill
no ivermectin.
>> That is literally crazy.
>> That's the reason why we need the
wellness company. We have pharmacies
now. And, you know, we only use our
green-listed, FDA-approved
um original
pharmaceutical ingredients, the APIs,
high quality.
And, I can tell you the next pandemic,
people aren't going to look at Fauci or
Zha or any of these people. They're
going to go to innovative companies that
are going to provide solutions. And,
we're ready to do it.
>> Certainly Fauci. Particularly after
those last hearings.
>> Remember Remember the government didn't
treat anybody. The CDC has 12,000
employees. $9 billion annual budget.
They didn't treat a single patient. They
don't operate hospitals. They don't
operate clinics. They don't dispense
drugs.
This is very important. That's the
reason why out of the pandemic, we've
had innovative solutions arise. You
know, there there are now
companies
giving provisions. We have this
recent If you heard this American
Fortress
warning about having 90 days of having
water, food, having provisions.
>> Yeah.
>> We now We have companies that can do The
Wellness Company.
We have medical solutions. You have
Patriot Supply. You have all these other
companies now. Solar, Elon Musk and and
his solar and cell phone service.
People Now, we actually have solutions
whereas years ago we didn't.
>> Right.
Before we leave, I want to talk to you
about the the personal cost that you
uh
endured
when you spoke out and when you were
you know, essentially a dissident.
When you were in the beginning of the
COVID pandemic, you were the person that
people pointed to and said this is an
example of misinformation. Like you
said, you were accused of selling snake
oil.
Like, what was it like for your career?
What was the impact?
>> Well, let me tell you, I didn't have a
stroke. I didn't have myocarditis. I'm
healthy. I'm older than you.
And I feel great. And so, when you look
at the people who lost their lives and
the people who have been devastated by
the infection or the vaccine, just the
fact that we have our health, Joe,
is so important. It's so much
more, honestly, than our jobs. And I put
my whole life in the medicine since age
17.
But I saw What I saw was so horrible.
And saw people suffering, you know,
people died alone.
They died alone. I saw things that were
so bad.
I couldn't sit back and say, "You know
what? I'm going to protect my career
and let somebody else take the bullets."
If I helped one person,
it was worth it.
One.
That's the criteria.
That's what a doctor does.
We have a million doctors and half a
million nurse practitioners that sat on
the sidelines and let Americans get
slaughtered. We had a handful of people
who stepped forward.
I wouldn't change a thing.
>> But what happened to you? Like what was
>> Well, everything.
>> Right.
>> Everything. I was stripped of
everything. Professorships, editorships,
grants, advisory panels, consultancies.
You name it.
If they could, they would have just
pinned me up to a cross.
It's just
it's so bad. And you know, I have
colleagues in Australia and Europe and
the UK and Canada and South America.
They did the same thing as me. They did
the right thing.
I think history will record.
>> I think it will as well.
Have any of those things been restored?
That you were stripped of?
>> of these
professional
downturns, and there were lawsuits and
money lost and and corruption and and
great things have been spawned. We
spawned the the wellness company, you
know, which is heading towards
skyrocketing for evaluation IPO. We're
going to be enormously successful. Uh we
have New York Times best-selling books.
Uh you know, I I'm in my fifth office in
Dallas, but I'm thriving now, uh you
know, in a great environment. I'm the
editor of a of a major journal after
losing two editorships. I've still yet
to have an academic organization call me
in for grand rounds.
And my goal is to live long enough to
get that call.
2019, I was a visiting professor in
medicine and I lectured at Harvard in
two divisions.
Two divisions, they all know me.
They all know me at the Mayo Clinic.
They know me at every major institution
in the United States.
And I have patients go to those
institutions. And they specifically
bring up my name my name. They said,
"Yeah, we know Dr. McCullough." Not a
single one of my former colleagues in
academia will send even as much as an
email or a text or a phone call.
>> Wow.
>> It is airtight.
It is airtight.
And some of them have died. You know,
former chief of cardiology when I was a
division chief at William Beaumont in
Detroit, David Haines. We We have an
annual ski meeting. David just dies
right there in the hotel. He had a
cardiac arrest.
One of my colleagues at Baylor in
Dallas, cardiologist my my age, Dr.
Jimenez. He just dies of a cardiac
arrest.
It's happening.
It's happening. We are seeing people die
out from the pandemic. I predict
that when we look back on this for a
period of time, human longevity will be
truncated due to the pandemic both from
the infection and from the vaccines.
We're already seeing a fertility cliff.
It's very important. Dr. Vivek Manniche,
one of the most respected public health
figures in Denmark, has already
published this.
Fertility has fallen off a cliff after
the first year of vaccination.
Both male and female fertility.
I just told you 9% of Democratic
senators have had premature stroke, 9%.
Add in a few more. Lauren Boebert, a
Colorado representative, has had blood
clots surgically taken out of her legs.
It was called May-Thurner syndrome. So,
probably driven by the spike protein.
Dianne Feinstein dies of neuroinvasive
uh varicella in her brain. That's a
COVID vaccine injury syndrome.
And the list goes on and on. All the
athletes,
all of our friends in the media, we see
this happening. So, we're going to
humanity took a hit. Two big waves, the
infection
and now the vaccines. Now we're going to
recover through the wellness company,
things that you've done. Independent
media is rocking right now because no
one can trust mainstream media. They
know they're not getting a straight
story.
>> Absolutely.
Um another thing was the increase in
all-cause mortality.
Which uh insurance companies were
posting about.
>> Mhm.
>> And that was extraordinary. At one
point, I think it was like 40% increase
in all-cause mortality for young people.
Which is nuts.
>> It's a six sigma event. These guys These
actuaries know
the expected rates of death.
And all-cause mortality for working-age
people skyrocketed. Great credit to
Edward Dowd, who's a former uh
you know, financial manager,
who studied this very carefully. John
Bedwinek, who's uh studied the death
certificates and what's going on.
There's people who've all written books.
The books will go down. There's dozens
of books now that are very helpful to
understand
what's happened. But you're right,
mortality has gone up. You know what's
really spooky?
Is uh
probably 10 or 15 years ago,
we used to hear about people,
politicians being concerned we're going
to run out of money for uh social
security or Medicare.
You never hear that anymore.
No one brings it up.
>> They don't?
>> Have you heard anybody this this season
worry about social security running out
of money?
>> I thought I have.
>> [laughter]
>> Fiscal responsibility. Well, fiscal
responsibility has kind of gone out the
window. But the the point is you know,
there is an actuarial loss now people
now the baby boomers are I'm the tail
end of the baby boomers. Baby boomers
are
19
uh gosh, what are they? 1960
uh
1946 to 1964. So, I'm the tail end of
the baby boomers. That big swell of the
population now is all either older than
me. Sadly, some have passed away. So,
we're going to see a big swell of the
population pass away. It it is a
reality.
And things are going to curtail. But we
have to get control of fiscal
responsibility. And these these numbers
are very important to know.
Our US spend on our budget in 2004 was
2.2 trillion with a T. That's how much
we spent in 2004.
We got to 2019, we're at 4.4 trillion.
Doubled. That's more than the time value
of money.
Doubled. We get to COVID under Trump
administration, we go 4.4 6.6 trillion
overnight. Overnight.
That's a 50% increase in our budget.
Money was just hemorrhaging all over the
place.
Now
now we're into Trump 2.0 big beautiful
bill, which is a big spending bill as
well. 7.7 trillion dollars.
Elon Musk, you've had him on your show.
Elon tries to go to Washington, he sees
waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere.
And they couldn't wait to see him get
out of Washington because he was going
to ruin the party. We're in an absolute
spending orgy as a country right now.
And we're borrowing from ourselves
through Treasury bonds.
So, when this whole party ends, it's
going to be sorry American people.
We know you liked your your 401Ks, but
the whole treasury bond system is going
bust.
>> All right.
On that note.
>> [laughter]
>> So, we have to do better. The point is
we have to do better. And I think people
are learning the truth. Let's hope that
through elections, let's hope through
people seeking uh truth, getting a whole
variety of opinions that we we take a
better course. And I think the future's
bright, but the pandemic was uh
certainly a 6-year learning experience,
and it's going to go on for a few more
years.
>> Agreed.
All right. Well, thank you, sir. It was
great to see you again.
>> Thank you.
>> And uh thank you for all your courage. I
really appreciate it, and for your
ethics and your morals. You're really a
good man.
Thank you.
All right. Good luck to you.
>> [music]