[@ChrisWillx] The Impact of Daycare Should Terrify Us All

Link: https://youtu.be/LNOt4KCeHmc

Duration: 12 min

Short Summary

This episode explores John Bowlby's attachment theory, explaining why the critical period of ages 0-3 shapes personality and emotional regulation before conscious memory develops. An expert discusses how daycare with caregiver ratios of 5:1 to 8:1 elevates stress hormones in infants and how 72% of babies not securely attached at 12 months remain insecurely attached at age 20, with links to depression, anxiety, and borderline personality disorder. The discussion covers generational transmission of attachment styles, ranked childcare options from best to worst, and the sailboat metaphor for understanding why babies need constant soothing from primary attachment figures.

Key Quotes

1. "Daycare, as I said, um it's basically separating babies from their primary attachment figures, putting them in institutional settings with ratios of no less than 5:1, usually 8:1 caregiver to child ratio. And you're basically sending that child's cortisol levels. The research shows that salivary cortisol levels go through the roof." (00:00:07)
2. "If you're not securely attached at 12 months, then 72% of those babies 20 years later will not be securely attached." (00:03:56)
3. "You want to be in the room where it happens. The room where it happens is 0 to three." (00:07:50)
4. "Babies are born like sailing a sailboat in the Pacific in a storm." (00:09:02)
5. "Babies are born disregulated and babies are all born aggressive." (00:08:47)

Detailed Summary

Introduction to Attachment Theory

The episode centers on John Bowlby, widely regarded as the father of attachment theory, whose stranger situation studies began in the 1960s and have been replicated extensively. Bowlby is credited with reforming UK maternity ward practices, advocating for mothers and babies to remain together rather than being separated immediately after birth. Thomas Plodman is mentioned as the 5th most cited psychologist of the 20th century and grandfather of behavioral genetics.

The Critical Period: Ages 0-3

The critical period for personality formation is ages 0 to 3, shaped by preconscious memory that the expert describes as something "no one wants to discuss consciously." This window occurs before conscious memory develops, meaning the attachment patterns formed in early childhood profoundly influence adult personality without individuals being aware of the origin.

Babies' Emotional State at Birth

Babies are born disregulated and aggressive with no emotional regulation—contrary to the common belief that infants are naturally calm. The expert uses a vivid metaphor: babies are like sailing a sailboat in a Pacific storm, and emotional regulation is achieved through a mother being physically and emotionally present, resulting in homeostasis like "sailing in the Caribbean on a sunny day." Three-year-olds are described as "the most aggressive people on the planet," a constitutional trait humans are born with.

Daycare Effects and Caregiver Ratios

Daycare separates babies from primary attachment figures with caregiver ratios of 5:1 to 8:1, causing elevated salivary cortisol levels (indicating high stress states). When parents are absent 10 hours a day due to daycare, children do not learn emotional regulation, leading to complete disregulation in primary school and adolescence—a factor the expert links to the modern mental health crisis. The episode provides ranked childcare options from best to worst: primary attachment figure, kinship bonds, single surrogate/nanny in child's home, shared caregiver in home, and daycare center.

Insecure Attachment and Mental Health Outcomes

Research shows 72% of babies not securely attached at 12 months will not be securely attached at 20 years. Insecure attachment is tied to depression, anxiety, and borderline personality disorder in later life. Anxiously attached mothers tend to produce anxiously attached babies, avoidantly attached mothers produce avoidantly attached babies, and mothers with disorganized attachment and borderline personality disorder tend to produce children with disorganized attachment.

Generational Transmission

Attachment style is transmitted through generational expression (environmental behavior) rather than genetic inheritance—described as "inheritance of acquired characteristics." Emotional regulation is learned through skin-to-skin contact and the calm, soothing tone of voice from the primary attachment figure each time the baby is in distress.

Full Transcript

Show transcript

Talk to me about daycare. What's the
problem with daycare?
>> Well, daycare, as I said, um it's
basically separating babies from their
primary attachment figures, putting them
in institutional settings with ratios of
no less than 5:1, usually 8:1 caregiver
to child ratio. And you're basically
sending that child's cortisol levels.
The research shows that salivary
cortisol levels go through the roof. So
babies go into high stress states. Now
they're separated from their mother's
bodies and they're separated from the
person in the world who's meant to make
them feel safe. They're in a loud
overstimulating setting with babies
crying and caregivers, transient
caregivers alternating and some being
absent and it's a new caregiver because
they're always out sick and
>> it's it's the worst the worst possible
care caregiving situation for a child.
There are so many better. If you have to
work, the best is a mother or father,
whoever is the primary attachment
figure. The next best is kinship bonds,
which are family or extended family
members who have a more similar
investment to children uh emotionally.
The next best would be a single
surrogate caregiver or a nanny or a
babysitter who's going to be an
alternative attachment figure to that
baby, which will provide them with some
sense of security and care for them in
your home. And if you can't afford that,
then share a caregiver. That's a big
thing in California where they uh will
split the cost of one caregiver. So that
caregiver is now taking care of two or
three children. You have now reduced the
ratio and that child is being cared for
in your home. And you have agency over
that.
>> Basically private daycare where you
don't have to travel
>> and it's in your home. And so you have
agency over who that person is, how they
care for your child. You can put cameras
in your house if you want. You can see
what they do. You can observe them. You
know who's taking care of your children.
Yeah. And your child isn't going into
this like high stress state of
screaming, crying. If you go into a
daycare center, you would cry. I always
say to parents, you drop them off and
you have this skitsoid response where
you shut down what you're feeling and go
to work. But if you knew what happened
in those daycare centers, if you heard
those babies cry,
>> what does happen? What happens in
daycarees?
>> Crying babies. Because the bottom line
is if I handed you eight babies and
you're one person, could you soothe all
those babies in distress at the same
time?
>> I'm not convinced I could soo one of
them.
>> Okay. Now, I'm giving you eight.
And so what's happening is those one
person cannot you know parents who are
have attachment disorders of their own
think oh it's better for somebody else
to care for my child because I'm not a
good I can't handle it without thinking
who's this person that I've just handed
my baby to and how are they going to
care for five to eight children and sue
them when they're in distress. And so
parents just it's like they shut down a
part of their it's like they they shut
down their empathy. It's like they have
a skitsoid response with empathy where
they cannot see their baby's
vulnerability or their or their baby
suffering.
>> What are your favorite studies that show
how we shouldn't ignore early attachment
in childhood?
>> John Bulby is the father of attachment.
You need go no further than John Bulby.
You could look at all of the um what
they call the stranger situation studies
which they've been doing since the
1960s. They have repeated this
experiment over and over. In fact, I was
um there's a researcher named Beatric BB
in New York. She's very famous and I was
in some of her videos because when I was
a young social work student, I did some
volunteering um in a stranger situation
study. Again, this this this situation
is repeated over and over and over
again. It's it's the most well-known
attachment security um study, and it it
sort of goes something like this. The
mother and baby are playing in a room, a
stranger walks in. Um the mother walks
out of the room, the mother walks back
in, and there's a reunion. It's sort of
they they look at the baby's reactions.
They look at the interaction between the
mother and the baby, the interaction
between the stranger and the baby. They
look at the the reunion between the
mother and the baby. So this is
something that's done over and over. We
have so much longitudinal research on
attachment security going back to the
60s. So much research to show that
attachment security, if you're not
securely attached at 12 months, then 72%
of those babies 20 years later will not
be securely attached. And that insecure
attachment is tied to depression,
anxiety, borderline personality
disorder. Um, so we have the research,
the research has been there for many
years. We just now we have now we have
the neuroscience research and the
epigenetics research to support the
attachment research.
>> Well, square this circle with the
heritability of attachment style for me.
>> The heritability of attachment style.
No. So it's generational expression. So
I I sort of bulk at the idea of inher
inheritance. It's inheritance of
acquired characteristics. So you don't
inherit it genetically. You inherit
sensitivity genetically. But you inherit
through acquired characteristics,
meaning your environment.
>> A mother who is
>> insecurely anxiously attached will more
likely produce an anxiously attached
baby. A mother who is avoidantly
attached will more likely produce an
avoidantly attached baby. A mother who
has a disorganized attachment and is a
borderline personality disordered kind
of patient will more likely produce a
child who has a disorganized attachment
and probably a borderline personality
disorder.
>> So um we call it generational expression
of mental illness. So inqu um
inheritance of acquired characteristics.
I guess it's interesting to think about
predisposition
versus predetermination with stuff like
this. The raw materials are there. I've
always thought this about I'm a big
plowman fan. I think he's one of the
best researchers of all time. He's what
the fifth most cited psychologist in the
20th century.
>> Uh this the guy that kind of the
grandfather of behavioral genetics I
think he rules. And um when I think
about the first few years of a child's
life, it's such a weird confluence of
what were the raw materials that you
were made of.
>> Yeah.
>> How are they expressed in the people who
made who who gave you them? They are
expressed in behavior. Yeah.
>> And that behavior happens to be the
environment. It would be like
it would be like a cow that cuts its own
leg off to then cook it in a stew, you
know, like the very thing that it's made
of is the thing that's that's creating
it. And um that's a [ __ ] horrific
analogy, but
it seems so unfair. This is what it I I
sort of came back to when I started to
think deeply about behavioral genetics
and attachment style. That you have
presumably an anxiously attached mother
has the raw materials to be anxiously
attached and then is presenting in an
anxiously attached way.
>> Yeah.
>> Which means that the child that has the
raw materials to be anxiously attached
gets that reinforced. And yes, all of
this happens preverbal. All of this
happens before you can even remember. I
can't remember anything basically before
age like nine or 10. Really spotty
memories.
>> So you know the you know the song from
Hamilton, you want to be in the room
where it happens. The room where it
happens is 0 to three.
>> That's what it means to be in the room
where it happens. And no one wants to
talk about the room where it happens
because they can't remember it
consciously because it's preconcious
memory. But it's what shapes your
personality. Uh
>> so nature versus nurture is always an
interesting question because we do we
are born with a constitution meaning
constitution is the amount of aggression
we're born with. Babies are all born
aggressive. You
>> the most aggressive people on the planet
are three-year-olds.
>> So well no actually babies are born
disregulated and babies are all born
aggressive. So you know people get it
wrong. People people think that babies
are born regulated and we disregulate
them by neglecting them or abusing them.
No, actually babies are born
disregulated
uh with highs and lows. I mean if you
ever just observe a baby um infants that
are newborn infants, they will go from
being happy 1 second and 0 to 60 in 3
seconds. boy, they'll be screaming if
>> the most bipolar little blobs.
>> Bipolar little blobs. Okay, but they're
not blobs. They're incredibly
uh sort of present, but they have no
emotional regulation. And it is by that
skin-to-skin contact, that calm,
soothing tone of voice of the primary
attachment figure. Every time the baby's
in distress, the mother soothes the
baby. The way I would describe it is
babies are born like sailing a sailboat
in the Pacific in a storm. This is how
babies are born.
>> By having a mother physically and
emotionally present in those first three
years who is calm and present and loving
and soothing,
you get the baby not you don't want to
get the baby flatlining. That's not what
we call homeostasis. We call homeostasis
more like sailing in the Caribbean on a
sunny day. There's waves, but you know,
you can manage them and then, you know,
they're kind of manageable and pleasant,
and that's where you want to get the
baby. But you cannot do that if you
throw your baby into a daycare setting.
If you disappear 10 hours a day and go
to work, and the one person that's meant
to help them to learn these things,
they're not learning. So we have
children who are going into primary
school years and then adolescence um
completely disregulated which is why
they're all breaking down in in this
mental health crisis. It's not a mystery
but you have to go back to the room
where it happens. But aggression
aggression is one of the things that
you're born with constitutionally. You
know in the old days you used to go into
a hospital into a maternity ward. Thank
goodness John Bulby got rid of the
maternity wards. You know, John Bulby
went into the hospitals in the UK and he
said, "No, no, no. Those babies, they
need to lie in with their mothers. They
need to be they could they've come out
of the
>> What was a maternity ward?
>> It was a room where they took the babies
from the mothers so the mothers could
rest and they took them. So now nurses
who they didn't recognize this were you
know were just mammals didn't recognize
the smell or the voice couldn't find
their mother's eyes because they saw
their mother's eyes when they were born
because they would show you the baby
here's your baby now bye and they would
take the baby away put it in this
maternity room with other screaming
crying babies and the mother is sleeping
and they're telling the mother this is
normal I mean like cuckoo right so he
said wait a
You know, he studied cultures all over
the world. He wrote a big book like this
called Detachment, which I recommend
everyone who has a baby to read. And
another book like this is big like this
called separation where he studied
cultures all over the world. Universal,
right? The idea that attachment security
is critical to a baby's emotional
regulation and conditioning.
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