[@jackneel] "It's Not Over!" Looksmaxer Exposes The Dark World of Men Obsessed With Perfection│Dragomaxxer

Link: https://youtu.be/bRoGq9nCKpg

Duration: 102 min

Short Summary

This episode features Drago, a computer science major and prominent looksmaxer who details his extensive steroid protocols (testosterone, Primobolan, Retatrutide, GH), bone smashing techniques, and recent streaming career on Kick where he gained 1,000 average viewers in just 10 days. The discussion also examines the broader looksmaxing community's transition to mainstream, controversial "Black Pill" ideology, documented FBI investigations into forums where respected members allegedly encouraged vulnerable users to end their lives, and personal resilience stories from members who experienced harassment after being told "it's over."

Key Quotes

1. "The dog pill probably." (01:13:29)
2. "There's a significant amount of girls who are how would I break this down? I wouldn't say it's been shown in studies, but it is anecdotally frequent that women that own large dogs are like pretty likely to have like some sort of sexual intercourse with them or like get like very physically like touchy more so than with like smaller dogs or even men with their dogs." (01:14:03)
3. "The ethnic tax which is basically just like your ethnicity can uh completely tax like subtract from your looks like significantly." (01:11:59)
4. "It's euro euroentric features. So, it's going to be fairer skin, lighter eyes, you know, straighter hair, a smaller nose, those types of features." (01:12:31)
5. "It wasn't a the post itself, but the fact that it was the last post by an individual that committed suicide because of another forum member and it was a notable member too." (01:15:00)

Detailed Summary

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Drago's Background and Entry into Looksmaxing

Drago is a computer science major studying cybersecurity who originates from the Basque Country, which spans four regions in Spain and three in France. He discovered looksmax.org during a depressive period after stumbling onto a RAD 140 transformation thread posted by his friend Numo, which claimed a user grew a chin spending just $50 over three months. His entry into the community was catalyzed by a long-distance relationship ending badly when he was on a data science internship at an electric car charging company in Italy, where his girlfriend was caught taking Snapchats from frat guys—a situation he attributes to his declining looks during that time.

• Drago's original looksmax.org username was "EgoLeon" after the Resident Evil character Leon Kennedy
• After being doxed, he created a second account with username "Drago Master" inspired by Dolph Lundgren's character, later adapted to "Drago Maxer"
• He embraced the community identity after leaving his "doomer" era

Looksmaxing Protocols and Drug Stacks

Drago takes 180mg of testosterone and 180mg of Primobolan as the base of his steroid protocol, along with 25mg of Anavar (increased from 5mg), 5mg of Retatrutide (described as a "godlike drug" for appetite suppression and metabolism upregulation), daily GH for faster body recomposition and lipolysis, 0.5mg of Dutasteride to block both DHT type 1 and 2 conversions (more comprehensive than Finasteride), and 2.5mg of Minoxidil for hair preservation. He notes that drug cocktails are more dangerous than bone smashing because looks maxers layer drugs for physique, then drugs to reverse side effects, then cognitive and anti-anxiety drugs, creating experimental polypharmacy with unknown long-term effects. He considers himself and others "guinea pigs" since no one in medicine studies these combinations.

• Drago's current testosterone dosage is 300mg, described as a beginner "TRT" dose and the highest level he has ever used
• Studies show steroid users who "pinned it and laid down and rotted" still gained muscle, demonstrating that anabolic stimulus matters more than mechanical work
• Two steroid users performed 50 bicep curl reps, rested 10 seconds, then did 50 more reps without fatigue, illustrating supraphysiological recovery
• The bicep only responds to mechanical tension and load magnitude, not movement quality
• Arnold Schwarzenegger's promoted mind-muscle connection from "Pumping Iron" is considered overrated by Drago
• Natural individuals with superior genetics can respond better to training stimulus than those with subpar genetics using steroids
• Genetic variation creates dramatic differences in steroid response—some people take 5x the dosage and achieve subpar results

Bone Smashing and Physical Enhancement Techniques

Bone smashing is described as a method based on Wolff's law to increase bone mass, paired with steroids at proper dosages for results in zygos, chin, brow ridge, and infraorbital areas—UFC fighters' shins are cited as evidence of bone ossification from repeated blunt trauma. The preferred tool is a hammer since fists reduce accuracy and cause asymmetrical growth; younger practitioners now use massage guns for more consistent results. Safety precautions include bracing the head to prevent concussion.

• Thumb pulling was tried in 2023 but discontinued because asymmetry risks outweigh potential benefits
• Thumb pulling theoretically mimics palate expanders to create better OG curve, more projected zygos, and an 8-10 tooth smile versus a narrow palate's 6-tooth smile

Facial Procedures and Surgical Costs

For under-eye concerns, surgical options like infraorbital implants or undereye fat grafts are recommended over facial exercises, which produced minimal results. True hunter eyes are attributed to well-developed super orbitals (Shaun Pry cited as an example), not eye exercises alone. Drago experimented with eye exercises to correct a lazy eye that affects appearance in certain directions.

• The speaker got a lip flip (Botox to evert the upper lip) and preventative forehead Botox to lower eyebrows for a more masculine gaze
• IGF-1 can artificially grow clavicles and improve biacromial breadth for a wider shoulder appearance
• Leg lengthening surgery costs approximately $400,000 with roughly one year of downtime for recovery and physical therapy, potentially requiring $900,000 total when including living expenses
• Double jaw surgery costs $30,000 with approximately six months of recovery time and could address facial alignment issues
• Drago mentions having a leg length discrepancy causing asymmetrical development affecting his upper palate and facial alignment

Looksmaxing Community History and Key Figures

Dylan Laam and Kami were responsible for the first major ungatekeeping of the looks maxing subculture, bringing it to public attention in 2022-2023. Clavicular, Zeta, and Drago were among the few notable users who actually applied knowledge and shared results publicly. Clavicular became the definitive face of looksmaxing because he was the most extreme practitioner who documented and taught methods publicly. Jennick is another popular looks maxer who became a streamer. K Shammy is credited with repackaging information from the dark community and making it accessible to young men. The community transitioned from niche subculture to mainstream within a couple of months, with looks maxing content becoming prominent on TikTok in 2023.

• Key figures discussed include Nocturnal K (cited as having one of the community's most dramatic "ascensions" from a low starting point)
• Androgenic documented hair transplant and rhinoplasty recovery on TikTok while reportedly pinning 2,500mg of testosterone before a trip to LA
• Cookie King helped popularize the song "Nuts" by Lil Peep and has since undergone significant physical transformation
• Clavicular's old forum username was mocked by a user named Hammer ("moged by Hammer")
• His username "luch clavvicular" references his clavicles and frame structure, which became the basis for the viral "frame mogged" meme
• The ASU frat leader "frame mogged" meme became one of the most viral moments from the group's antics

Doxing and Community Harassment

Every notable member of the looksmax forum has been targeted for doxing. The speaker was doxed as leverage to extract information about another girl in the Discord server, leading to threats of expulsion and family targeting by users characterized as "womanhating incels." Clavicular experienced a similar doxxing situation. Drago initially was frustrated with how Dylan Laam exposed the forums but later concluded it was probably for the better.

• The speaker withdrew all classes believing he would be expelled from college due to forum association, but nothing happened
• He spent the semester "rotting and reflecting"
• He adopted the philosophy "it's never over" as the opposite of the community's "it's over" mantra after surviving the harassment

Height and Dating Market Dynamics

The claimed dating "sweet spot" is 6'3 to 6'5, with the speaker himself being 5'10.75 inches tall while claiming 6 foot on dating profiles as an experiment. Studies cited suggest women are "extremely bad" at estimating height, with the speaker recommending that shorter men leverage this by inflating listed height. The ethnic tax concept holds that ethnicity (particularly being Indian) significantly subtracts from perceived attractiveness due to Eurocentric beauty standards favoring fairer skin, lighter eyes, and smaller noses.

• Social media has made height a "front-of-mind" factor for women, creating a "more difficult situation" for men
• Men now face expectations to wear concealer, eyeliner, and BB cream according to the speaker

Controversial Forum Practices and Real-World Harm

The episode details a serious incident where a forum member with special needs who was being bullied in real life committed suicide after a respected member using the username "Sherry Sex" allegedly told him to "end it all" and called him "subhuman" and "beyond saving." The forums came under FBI investigation following this case. Extortion groups reportedly target vulnerable users for sport within looks maxing Discord communities.

• Multiple documented cases of cyberbullying on these forums have contributed to real-life harm beyond the platforms themselves
• The PSL (pseudoscience looks) rating system includes face rating, overall looks, and height as key factors for evaluating men

Personal Resilience Stories

Yorts shares that the worst advice he received was being told "it's over" for him, causing him to withdraw from his semester, stop talking to friends, and stay in bed for about two and a half weeks. He now rejects "it's over" statements, arguing that life circumstances can change at any moment and luck plays a role—but only if you're prepared and putting yourself in the right place.

• Drago experienced similar harm after being pressured into believing it was over, withdrawing from his entire semester and isolating himself for 2.5 weeks
• He rejects the "it's over" mindset, believing that life can change at any moment and that luck is only useful if you're prepared
• His father's guiding principle was that no matter what happens, you can always stand up—you're only done if you stay on the ground
• His best received advice: "fall down 6 times, stand up 7 times"
• He advocates putting absolute best effort and every piece of will and heart into what you care about

Streaming Career and Strategy

Drago has been streaming for 10 days averaging 1,000 viewers, describing the growth as "really good." He streamed 19 hours straight, came to the podcast, then streams again, having slept only 8 hours combined over 4 days. He admits he is not healthy right now but expects to recover after 3 days of rest.

• Kick is described as more toxic than Twitch, but his community has been "super super positive"
• His strategy involves grinding long hours, cultivating a positive community, and competing against bigger streamers he considers "lazy"
• He prefers long-term streaming over viral controversy, believing controversy creates a spiral requiring constant drama

Nutrition and Phenotype Optimization

Sodium intake is one of the main concerns for looks maxers and must be avoided to prevent bloating—food in the US contains excessive sodium causing noticeable bloating. Maintaining proper sodium-to-potassium ratio daily is essential. Women do not actually prefer dad bods despite what they say; observed behavior shows they hook up with lean, athletic guys with well-developed facial structure.

• Starve maxing (eating as little as possible or not at all) is commonly used by models preparing for events
• The starve maxing protocol involves eating nutritious food three days prior, very little two days before, and nothing the day before, sometimes using diuretics
• Daily looks maxing products include Lumifi for eyes, Vaseline for lip moisture, and scar gel for white sclera maintenance
• Nasolabial folds (lines appearing with aging that indicate less developed maxilla) become more visible under harsh lighting with flash
• Solutions include advancing the maxilla through osteotomies for structural support or using aqualix to dissolve accumulated fat, though structural issues will return due to gravity

Full Transcript

Show transcript

Make sure you're holding firmly. You can
hit your sigos, your chin, or your brow
ridge. The areas are more preferred.
Today's guest represents the most
extreme form of self-improvement. Your
average college kid studying computer
science. His worldview completely
shifted after a long-distance
relationship fell apart.
>> Now all of a sudden, I see a picture of
her with two frat guys, and she's lying
about whether she had asked for their
Snapchats or not. How could she do this
to me? Am I thating hideous that I
deserve this?
>> This led him to stumble into an online
community that would send him down a
rabbit hole of drug cocktails, bone
smashing, and other methods to maximize
his looks.
>> I'd never think that I'd have more than
like a handful of people to even talk to
this about. Now, there's random kids
that know about it and that are
mentioning me and how I, oh my god, he
knows clvicular. Oh my god, like what
peptides should I take? It's like, what
the [ __ ]
>> In this episode, we'll explore the
underground communities shaping the
minds of young men. Question why
teenagers are treating their bodies like
science experiments and expose the dark
side of Gen Z's obsession with
perfection. What's the most toxic belief
in the looks maxing community?
>> Um, the dog pill probably
>> the what? Drago, welcome to the Jack
Neil podcast.
>> It's a pleasure.
>> A good place to start here. You see
everyone in the news talking about bone
smashing. It's this sensationalized
headline to kind of uh discredit some of
the stuff that looks maxers talk about.
But
>> what is bone smashing?
>> It's just um it's a method that looks
maxers use that's based on Wol's law.
And um it's essentially just a way to
increase your bone mass. not very
significantly if done naturally. But
when paired with the right, you know,
stack of steroids at the right dosages
and done consistently, it can lead to
pretty substantial results, especially
when done in your, you know, zygos, your
chin, and even your infrorbital and your
brow ridge. So, that's a method that's
used for that, but also before going out
clubbing for a slight pump, as uh the
gym people might say. We can see it in,
you know, UFC fighters. Their their
shins are multiple times stronger than
the average human beings from all the
blunt trauma. After several several
several strikes, the bone just oifies
and it's stronger and there's it's
denser and there's more volume of it.
So, it's it's 100% true. The only thing
that's argued about is whether it's
actually a beneficial thing to do or it
looks max aesthetically because of the
fact that blunt trauma is very difficult
to apply consistently at in on the same
spot. So the growth is not going to be
perfectly symmetrical.
>> Their faces are actually more
defined. Is that because of like the
trauma that they're getting from
fighting each other?
>> One, yes, the the strikes to the face do
100% over time induce some growth. I
definitely believe so and you can, you
know, see it in the fighters. But
there's also the aspect of genetic
predeterminism. You can also, it's the
same argument that's made for swimmers,
right? A lot of people say swimming, at
least in looks maxing, you should swim
because it will widen your clavicles.
All the swimmers you see, they have wide
clavicles, long wingspans. But then you
rebuttal with are their wingspans long
because they've been swimming their
entire life or did they become the most
elite swimmers because they were, you
know, blessed with wider clavicles and
longer wingspans. So specifically for
the fighter, it is part of the wolf's
law, but it's also more likely that uh
most of the top fighters you see had
developed brow ridges which help protect
your eyes. You know, their infrorbitals
are more protruded. Their their jaw is
better developed because they had better
hormonal profiles growing up which makes
them better athletes.
>> It's a little bit of both at the end of
the day.
>> Can you show me how to bone splash?
Yeah, unfortunately I don't have a
hammer, which would be the preferred
thing, but when out of a hammer, you can
always resort to your knuckles. It won't
be as efficient, but it'll do the trick
for demonstrations purposes. First thing
you want to do is you want to make sure
you brace your head. A lot of people
make the mistake of not bracing their
head, and that's how you can very
quickly develop, you know, CT or, you
know, just kill your brain cells for no
reason. Because in order to get gains
from bone smashing, this is a consistent
thing you have to do very, very
frequently. So, if you're going to be
punching yourself with your fist or with
a hammer every day, make sure you're
bracing your head. So, you'll brace,
make sure you're holding firmly, and
then you can hit your sideos, your chin,
or your brow ridge is the areas are more
preferred. Right now, I'm going to do
zygos just for demonstrations purposes.
These are what I we often do before
going out just to get a slight pump
apart from, you know, the long-term
effects.
>> This is not recommended to the audience.
But
>> that's not going hard enough, by the
way, guys. But I'm not going to, you
know, full on smash my face. But
>> how hard would you hit yourself?
>> You'd want to simulate almost a a full
strike. The problem with the fist though
is if you want to hit hard enough to
create the same effect as a a hammer,
you have to actually like wind up and
hit. And that goes back to the point I
made. How accurate can you be hitting
the exact same spot with, you know, your
fist? At least with a hammer since it's
more controlled like that, you can
create a a much more predictable result.
Actually, something I've seen recently
is uh some of these uh younger kids that
are starting to bone smash, they're
using massage guns cuz
>> massage guns.
>> Massage guns. is I mean a machine doing
it is probably as close as you're going
to get to a very repeatable back and
forth motion smashing in the same area.
>> I want to ask you do you think bone
smashing is the craziest thing that
looks maxers do?
>> No. I the reason I think bone smashing
isn't that extreme is to me I just think
of it as if I um I've been fight if I
was doing a martial arts or any sort of
fighting sport the I'd be doing
something similar anyways. In terms of
what's I think is crazier, I mean just
the combination of drugs, you know, the
drug cocktails that a lot of these looks
maxers take because you have to factor
in, you know, the drugs you take for a
better physique. The drugs you take to,
you know, reverse the side effects from
the drugs you're taking for the better
physique. Now you're thinking about the
drugs you're taking for better cognition
and for, you know, better brain function
overall. And then apart from trying to
become smarter and having better brain
cognition, a lot of these looks matches,
they're very high anxiety, shy people
because you know they come from a
background of insecurity and insult
them. So they'll also stack on other
drugs that are meant to lower your
anxiety. Some of these can be very very
addictive drugs like you know Xanax and
bablin. So you're pairing all these
drugs with other drugs that have all
these effects and you're trying to
mitigate the effects by adding other
drugs on top of them. Honestly, punching
your face a couple times a day seems a
lot less harmful long term than these
mixes that you're having. So many young
kids do now nowadays with, you know, the
effects of two drugs together and how
they react in your body, those are very
often studied, right? But when you keep
adding more and more and more and more,
you're just adding more variables that
could you know completely over there
that those combinations that a lot of
these look doing are very experimental.
It's what's so fascinating about the
community is um a lot of them are
essentially guinea pigs cuz no one's
really doing this in medicine. It's
considered either not not worth their
time or too extreme. So but you don't
know a lot of the effects yet. That
seems a lot more crazy to me.
Interesting. So, Drago, what drugs do
you take in a day?
>> I was a lot worse about this before.
Thankfully, I've uh so shored up quite a
bit. Unfortunately, dabbled with uh
with, you know, I was taking it pretty
consistently. Functionally, though. I
mean, maybe say I'm c I'm coping, but I
I was generally trying to use it to be
as productive as possible. Um we dabbled
a little bit with and you know,
was probably the the worst cuz um that's
what went viral. By the time my parents
found out I was doing drugs, I khold and
uh it had to get carried out of the club
by three different people elevated into
the sky and thrown into a car. But yeah,
those three drugs were probably the the
worst ones I took that are recreational.
But those are no more. The ones that
100% do still take and have added
recently are primabon test I've been
taking for a while. You know, that's
always the basis of any looks max. You
have the testosterone. It's uh it's
vital. So 180 test 180 primo. I just
went up from 5 mg anavar to 25 mg.
Obviously we got have the reatide
godlike drug. It's exploding everywhere
for a reason. You know it's uh very very
efficacious doing 5 mgs of that. Um I
just recently did two courses of MT2.
Although I do tan very easily. It's uh
it's worth my time to just tan two days
pin MT2 and then being tan enough than
um you know not using it. And then I
added three. I use GH daily and I'm on
0.5 mg detasteride and 2.5 mg minoxil
daily as well to mitigate any hair loss
that could be induced by androgens and
the steroids that I'm taking.
>> So kind of give me what each one does
exactly like what's the result from each
one.
>> Test 180. This is considered like higher
TRT. It's it's honestly like all the
dosages that I'm going to be saying are
very moderate. Some people are probably
going to comment like why why not go
higher? But you have to understand that
these are not bodybuilding cycles or
stacks. These are looks maxing stacks.
And that's why I chose this combination
specifically. The test is essential.
It's the base. You need a test base
whenever you're taking steroids. That's
what keeps you at least a, you know,
level to maintain that's going to not
shut you down. Then the Primo and Anavar
are going to give you a dry hard look
that's very aesthetic. You know, it's a
a more desirable look for girls in my
opinion than a lot of these people that
will do higher test dosages and add
other compounds and turn into almost a
water buffalo. You know, we want to
avoid bloat at all costs when uh we're
running trend. So, those give you that
hard and and dry look. Then the GH is
super super crucial for uh body
recomposition.
>> GH kissu.
>> No, no, growth hormone. Growth hormone.
Okay. H.
>> Yeah.
>> Growth hormone. You will notice the
difference so quickly your body
composition after adding it. I just
recently added it again after three
months of not having it. It makes
burning fat so much easier and
maintaining the low body fat. You're
just the the lipolysis gets upregulated
and it it makes it a lot easier to stay
aesthetic. Then the reatride, you know,
to suppress your appetite and upregulate
your metabolism. MT2 gets you tan. And
then the other drugs are all to
basically minimize side effects from the
ones previously said to block DHT
conversion type one and type two. A lot
of people take finasteride but that
doesn't block type two which is what
makes your uh collagen decrease and um
people like ignoring that will never
cease to like amaze me. Your health
indicators are extremely important. The
same way that your hairline is life as a
man, your skin quality on steroids is
extremely extremely important. There's
no point in having an aesthetic physique
if you look like a wrinkled raisin.
>> What's a looks max you do that most
people don't agree with? I guess like
even what's something you do that Clav
doesn't do? You do IGF-1?
>> Yes, I I did IGF-1 a lot more frequently
than than Clav. Honestly, Clav doesn't
even do GH anymore. I don't think he's
become he's a lot more um conservative
with a lot of dosages, which makes
sense. I mean, we don't really work out
as much anymore. So, the drug exposure
is it makes sense to minimize it if
you're not going to be making the most
most of it. But, in terms of what I do
specifically that Clav doesn't,
honestly, we're pretty evenly matched.
He's got me um beat in some aspects of
looks maxing that are more suited for
you know your brain for example like his
medication NSAM that's something I've
been looking into but I haven't pulled
the trigger
>> he's on ENSAM
>> in terms of some of the methods like
what are some looks maxing methods you
experimented with in the past
>> thumb pulling was one of the first
things that I really like went all in
for in 2023 when I joined the forums
>> what is that What? Thumb pulling.
Essentially, you put your two thumbs on
your pallet, your upper pallet.
You're going to fit them in inwards and
you want to push upwards and outwards to
be essentially mimic what a pallet
expander would do. An actual the actual
instrument. However,
like with the bone smashing, the amount
of force that you're using with your
hands in the directions are never going
to be as exact as with an actual tool.
So the effects themselves are already
argued. But what people argue above that
is even if the effects are working, you
could disfigure yourself and create more
asymmetries by thumb pulling if you're
using your two thumbs. You know,
everyone is slightly purpose of it.
>> It's to expand your upper pallet.
>> And why is that good?
>> Um a wider upper pallet is essentially
one of the most important features that
you want to be attractive because it
creates a much better OG curve. Your
zygros will be more projected outwards
and upwards, which is what we want. Your
facial width to height ratio will be
improved as well. And it's how you get
that wanted Hollywood 8 to 10 tooth
smile. All these people that you see
with 8 to 10 teeth smile.
>> 8 to 10 teeth smile.
>> Yeah. You want that's how that's the
ideal amount of teeth that you want
showing when you smile. A lot of people
with narrow pallets, you'll only have a
six tooth smile. That's the easiest way
to tell. And you'll see darkening around
the corners of their mouth because the
teeth will be further inwards at the
edges.
>> So when you smile, let me see.
>> I don't have a an A2 smile for example.
>> Huh. Interesting.
>> Narrow pallet. And not only that,
asymmetrical pallet. So that would have
been worsened by the thumb pulling.
That's why I quickly stopped after doing
more research on it when I started.
>> So is thumb pulling effective?
>> It's I don't I don't think it's a it's a
good idea. I I don't think it's a good
idea. There's some people in the
community that really push for it, but I
just don't think it's worth the risk.
Yes, you may create a little bit of, you
know, space and uh and growth, but I
asymmetries are extremely important to
avoid.
>> What else have you tried?
>> What else have I tried? Soft tissue is
very important still for your face. you
know, bone structure obviously is king,
but there's a lot of exercises that
you'd see on the forums or even in
YouTube, facial yoga is what it's
called, where you could, you know, hold
certain areas and exercise your lower
eyelid, for example, or certain areas of
your your your mouth. And it's supposed
to create maybe a slightly tighter lower
eyelid or, you know, um more symmetrical
uh brow inclination because
>> So, can you give yourself hunter eyes?
Is that what they're called?
>> Yeah, you can um you can try you can try
to uh fraud them by doing something like
this. But true hunter eyes are caused by
having extremely well-developed info not
infra orbitals. I mean infraorbitals as
well, but the super orbitals is what
people are commonly thinking about when
think about hunterized like Shauna Pry.
His his super orbitals are extremely
extremely extremely striking and
projected and that's why he has that
that stare. So to think that you can
just you know do some eye exercises and
uh do that is um quite comical. One of
the ones that I did experiment with and
I do think is worth people's time is um
eye exercises in the realm of following
fingers and stuff like that because
although these are often used to train
your eyesight having a slightly lazy eye
can still affect the appearance of it.
you know, when you're looking around,
your your lids are still going to, you
know, change how tight they're going to
be, especially when you're looking up a
certain direction. So, these are
definitely something that I I tried. I
didn't really, you know, check the
results. I stopped after a walk cuz I
realized, you know, the the change is
going to be so minimal. I'd rather just
uh get inforbital implants or underey
fat grafts, like just save up and pull
the trigger on that. what looks maxing
methods actually work like in terms of
the bone smashing thumb pulling like is
there anything that you still do
consistently?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think the most important
method is taking the right drugs believe
it or not you know taking the right
drugs and doing the right surgeries are
the biggest return off on investment
things you can do.
>> What's the one drug you think everyone
should take?
>> Testosterone. There is a there's a
reason why the warning label has been
removed from it. people are realizing
that it is the future honestly with the
amount of things are in um our food
processed foods everything we touch
microplastics all they're all affecting
our natural testosterones if we lived in
an ideal society where this wasn't the
case then maybe I wouldn't be such a
huge proponent for testosterone but
that's unfortunately not how we're
operating so anyone in the the US
specifically I think should definitely
pull the trigger at a certain age
>> break that down for me so you said the
warning labels removed What do you mean
>> before that testosterone warning label
issued by the FDA which essentially just
warns the user that you know there is
significant enough side effects or
dangerous things that can happen from
ingesting this medicine or drug. It's
essentially gotten put in the same class
as other medicines that the average Joe
would take instead of being categorized
as something extremely extremely like
out of reach and dangerous.
>> What would you say is the most important
moment from your life for us to know who
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or you can scan the QR code on screen.
But anyway guys, back to the podcast.
What would you say is the most important
moment from your life for us to know who
you are?
>> Honestly,
when I was uh doxed by the people from
the forum simply for trying to improve
myself and being kind to other people,
it um it was probably the lowest stage
of my life ever. Like I thought
everything was was done for. or I
thought I was going to get expelled
simply from being associated to these
groups. There were people in the
community that sent my name, my family's
information, published it online, you
know, leaking very like uh sensitive
information of like uh people I was
with, you know, saying slurs, stuff like
that, threatening to send it to my
college, just threatening to send it to
my dad's workplace, things of that
nature. So, I fully thought my life was
over. It's a kind of a similar situation
to what happened to Clavvicular. You
know, when that happened to him, he
actually reached out and then the first
thing I said to him is like, it's not as
bad as you think it's ever going to be.
Like most of the suffering that happened
to me from that was um all mental and
self-induced. Like I withdrew all my
classes thinking I would get expelled.
Nothing ended up happening. So, I just
essentially spent the entire semester
rotting and reflecting and trying to
think of what I should learn from this.
And eventually what uh the conclusion I
came to is that I didn't actually do um
anything wrong in the way I operated for
me to have gotten docked. I was just I I
was very jaded right when it happened
because I was a very kind person in the
community and I still got like the
doxing and the harassment that happened
afterwards and all the threats. So I was
like, you know what, this I'm I'm done
being nice. Like nice people always get
stepped on. But then after more time
went on, I was like, why would I stoop
down to their level? like this is
exactly the type of people in this
community that I need to make an example
out of and show why they're not the
actual, you know, leaders of what this
this means of what the face of looks
maxing or even the black pill is
supposed to to be about. So from that
moment forward, I really just like
became very concrete of my feeling about
the never give up and it's never over.
It's the complete opposite of the saying
they always say, which is it's over,
it's over, it's over. And I just it's
never over because I thought it was
completely over. They was they would
spam that message to me every day. It's
over for you. It's over for you. They
put it in the docses. Oh, you thought
you're getting It's over for you. It's
over for you.
>> Why did they dox you?
>> They doxed me because they wanted to dox
a different girl that um they thought
was uh talking to me. So essentially
they they doxed me just as leverage to
scare her into really more information.
So, I was essentially a
just a side side victim or um side piece
that got uh put in the mix.
>> And why' they want to dox her?
>> Just because they hate women. They were
they were like womanhating incelss. She
was one out of the two only girls in the
in the server that we were in. And she
honestly was unbearable. Like I did not
like this person either. But one of the
things they would tell me is like,
"Okay, we won't dox you if you tell us
all the information you know about her."
And I was like, "I don't know it." But
like even if I did like I would I
wouldn't do that to another human being.
And so I think it was a very defining
factor and just like wanting to be the
light in such a negative community and
um people like K Shami I think are great
examples of that as well. He really was
able to make the most out of all the
knowledge that is in there mixed with
all the [ __ ] and you know negative
energy. you know, he got a lot of [ __ ]
for his uh business endeavors and
repackaging information, but I think
what he did was honestly a service to a
lot of young men. He prevented them from
needing to step into such a dark place
full of negativity to find valuable
information to improve their lives and
then, you know, made it easily
accessible to them. And I think we need
more of those people in the looks maxing
community. I think Clav, although many
people may think is not like that, is
quickly showing that he is and slowly
becoming more and more so, you know, cuz
he's he's very young. He's he's learning
a lot and he's learning quick and I
think he's really like understanding his
position as this positive role model in
um you know, this mainstream community
that just came out of nowhere. You know,
we went from a niche community to
mainstream over a couple months. What do
most people not understand about the
dark origins of looks maxing?
>> I mean, people don't realize just how
long people have been in this little
subculture posting and sharing very
niche information with each other for
because of how, you know, critical they
were about making sure no one else found
out about it. They were trying to gateep
this from as many people as possible.
That's why the whole community and you
know subculture was up in arms when uh
Dylan Laam and Kami really brought it to
the light and it was genuinely a huge
huge thing. I mean, it's obviously
exploded way more even now, but the
first initial like ungatekeeping of the
subculture was like I mean, people were
out to get him. Like they they were
absolutely furious, borderline like
homicidal feeling about someone
releasing this information to a public.
Oh, the normies can't know about this.
You know, now it's unfair. Like, we need
this edge. They wanted Kiki because, you
know, you you can understand from their
viewpoint. and they feel like they're
they're oppressed and their life is so
difficult. This is the thing they found.
This is this thing that no one else
knows about and this information that is
so gatekeep that can finally help them,
you know, level the playing field or
even surpass their peers. And now it
just got thrown out to everyone else and
in recent time the last couple months
every single person knows about it.
Everyone's looks maxing. Everyone knows
what mogging is.
>> Did you used to hate Kami and Dylan Lam?
I was a little bit pissed off at how
Dylan was going about it. Honestly, I
thought was like I was like this this
motherucker, bro, like why why why is he
doing this? Why is he doing this? Like
how how does he possibly benefit? And I
was like, you know what? Like why do why
do I care that other people can now
improve themselves? Like I'm that's like
the opposite of an abundance mindset,
you know? And like I
that's why they're the crabs in the book
of mentality is legitimately the the
main um feeling you're gonna get from
the looks max forum is everyone just
wants to keep you down. They're not
going to wish you the best when you
ascend. They're going to, you know, say
you're frauding, say you're faking this.
You didn't do this. This is fake. Oh,
you're coping. This isn't true. You
still look like [ __ ] You're never going
to look better. And it's like I didn't
want to continue playing into that. So
after a certain amount of time um post
Dylan posting about the the forum I was
like you know what this is this is
probably for the better you know having
K uh publish so much knowledge about it
in a much more accessible format and
like positive is like this is this is
good you know every single notable
member of the looks max forum has had
people attempt to dox them you know club
a killer's been they they attempt to dox
them for so long yet they they dox me
pretty quickly. Uh three other of my
friends that are notable users there,
Armid, Numo, and um some others also try
to dox them. Why? Cuz they'd post their
ascensions and them improving on how
their lives had improved. And the amount
of jealousy and bitter incel rage that
would be just ruminating through those
forums, it they'd all want to get them
down. They they couldn't believe that
someone could be accessing the same
knowledge as them, but actually
improving their life with it. cuz
instead of self-reflecting and being
like, "Wait, I could do this, too." It's
a lot easier to just not believe it's
real or make it not be real anymore.
>> The first time I did the podcast with K
Shammy, I even didn't bring up the word
like looks maxing form or anything
because like he was like, "Dude, they'll
attack you. They'll like dox you and
stuff." Um, but
>> it's really interesting how mainstream
it's become and it was something that
was so gatekept for so long. Uh, it's
kind of funny how that works, but yeah,
Drago, your real name is Yorts. Uh, I
think people watching this podcast might
have seen you kind of on streams with
Clvicular. Uh, they might have watched
your content uh that you've started
posting recently. And
I think there's a lot of mystery to you
and who you are, but how did you meet
Clavicular originally?
I met him directly on the forums. You
know, it's how I met Zeta as well. You
know, another very known looks maxer.
the you few users that would actually
apply knowledge and try to help other
people by sharing it or posting their
results, which would be like people like
me, Clavicular, Zeta, they we'd find
each other very quickly cuz you you
know, you'd see eye to eye and you like
you'd acknowledge the the balls honestly
that it would take to post yourself in a
place like that knowing that these
people are going to be bitter and
jealous and try to, you know, you over.
but also the fact that even knowing that
these people want nothing but bad [ __ ]
to happen to you, you're still providing
information to try to help them, hoping
that maybe they'll change someday. But
yeah, I met him on the forums and I
started getting his Tik Toks popping up
on my on my feed. His old username used
to be mocked by Hammer actually.
>> Moged by Hammer.
>> Yeah, Moged by Hammer. That's uh that's
what that was his username when I first
was uh interacting with him. And so I
just sent him a a DM. And I said, "Wait,
is this your Tik Tok account?" Cuz I
just want to double check. I was I had
been talking to him on on the forum
already, but I wasn't I wasn't 100%
certain and it was if it was like
actually him or someone laring as him.
So, I double checked send the message
because of that. And we just sent a
couple other messages. And from that
point forward, he invited me to a
Discord server that had all the notable
figures. And Jennick, who's another very
popular Looks Maxer and streamer now,
was also on there. And it just became
like this little community of uh you
know wellrespected, knowledgeable guys
that were willing to you know do the
weird looks maxing [ __ ] and be public
about it. So that's kind of how our
relationship started. And like I
mentioned earlier, we really got a lot
closer when he got doxed as well cuz he
was aware that it had happened to me
already. So I just he he came to me for
advice about it. And after a year and a
half, which is a long time of just
discord messaging about looks maxing
[ __ ] it's very autistic stuff. You
know, us doing PDIO threads, which are,
you know, certain procedures where you
stick a needle here and you can uh
increase the collagen production in
certain areas to create create like a a
temporary uh volume boost. So, we'd send
even stuff like that, just pinning
ourselves with uh with [ __ ] in our in
our face. And um a year and a half
later, he
>> Does it only work on your face?
>> No. No, you can do them on uh this is
was a very interesting uh thread uh that
clavvicular rate. He tried them on his
mons pubis which is um the area right
above your your dick to try to you know
increase some some nonbone press length
uh penis size.
>> It's fascinating.
>> Yeah. That led to us um meeting in
person which was kind of where
everything took off. He legitimately
just tagged me on Discrago.
I'm going to Miami. Let's meet up. and
we met in Miami. He did his first IRL
stream. We did it together. We just we
went on a four-day bender, no sleeping,
doing way too many um drugs. And um
everyone loved it. Like we had a blast.
And shortly after that, he went back
home for a week and we all moved to
together in LA. Me, Clav, and uh and
Charlie. And that's where we met you
shortly after with Kami, Cookie, and
everyone else.
>> That's crazy, man. Yeah, it was it was
so strange because I uh did a podcast
with K Shami and then
>> we lost like the audio from it. And then
the second one we did uh
>> something got messed up with it. And
then we did a third one and this was
like over a six-month time span. I still
never posted it. And then uh eventually
we just became friends because we'd
filmed so many podcasts together that he
was like uh yo you want to go out with
these guys? I was like who the hell is
Clav? Good times in Barley, Ben. It's a
good night.
>> Yeah. Um, but it was so funny seeing you
guys. I was like, who the [ __ ] is this 6
foot6 guy and then who's this guy that
looks like Zack Efron and who's this
other dude that's like shoulders are
like wide as [ __ ] Uh, Clav. Um, but
that was good times, man. I want to ask
you, why did you start looks maxing
originally?
>> I the algorithm chose me, I guess. you
know, uh, some people got lucky to have
it appear a lot more frequently in 2023
back when the model edits were
happening, but I just don't think
everyone realized exactly what it was
like signaling. The fact that these two
super famous models were all of a sudden
taking over Tik Tok. All the edits that
you'd see would be Chico and Jordan just
mogging. It's like, why are they why are
they everywhere? Why they so attractive,
right? And um I got um a video of a PSL
god edit. PSL gods edit which PSL gods
are essentially like the group of models
or Chads that looks maxers refer to as
the best looking you know it's
essentially their their idols. It was an
edit of all of these guys and the the
caption had a Discord channel in there
and that's really where everything
started. I was just investigating how to
look better because I felt like I looked
a lot uglier than I ever did before in
my life and I was getting treated worse
because of it. My girlfriend at the time
was uh you know taking longer to reply,
treating me with less respect, doing
things that she shouldn't be doing, you
know, like uh just [ __ ] [ __ ] testing
more than she should have been. And I
previously would have, you know, tried
to cope that oh my game was wrong, this
or that. But because of the amount of
like looks related things that were
getting just bombarded on my page,
something just clicked. I was like,
"Wait, I'm just an ugly ass right now."
She wasn't doing this when I was uh with
her in college and I was working out
every day, taking care of my diet. My
skin wasn't [ __ ] My hair was peeking.
It was right. It was blonder. I I was
tanner. Everything Everything was just
better, right? So, I just I I look
horrible and now I'm getting treated
worse. So I just that that happened at
the exact time as the looks maxing uh
edits blowing up and it just made me
look deeper and uh I fell down the
rabbit hole.
>> Tell me more about the situation with
your the girl you were dating.
>> Mhm.
>> What happened exactly?
>> So essentially we were
about to fully like tie tie the knot
like officially date, but it was summer,
right? And I was going to be going to to
Italy for an internship. So, I was like,
"You know what? Let's just be exclusive,
not officially dating, and when I come
back, we I will ask you out, you know,
like legit take you out and pass you my
girlfriend, but I just I I don't see a
point asking my girlfriend like the day
that I'm leaving to Italy. Let's just
see how this goes and be mutually
exclusive." And right when I met her
before uh summer, I was probably the
best looking that I had been during that
era of my life. I just finished uh
pledging, so I was working out a lot.
It's a lot of physical exercise that you
do. Wasn't eating as much, so I was
leaner. My hair looked good and I was
tanned from being outside a lot. So, I
mean, she obviously found me attractive
and um that's why we started talking.
But in Italy, just everything went to
[ __ ] right? I obviously would still
send her pictures of myself and you
know, you would you would think that
something as small as that, just like
selfies slowly worsening looks being
able to affect her her behavior that
much. like when she started taking
longer to respond or showing more
attitude and all of a sudden she's going
to parties frequently, which she wasn't
before. Now all of a sudden I see a
picture of her with two frat guys and
she's lying about whether she had asked
for their Snapchats or not. And that was
just kind of like the breaking point. I
was like, "What the fuck?" Like I how
could she do this to me? Like do am I am
I that [ __ ] hideous that I deserve
this? Which it sounds crazy to say,
right? Why would a hideous person
deserve that regardless, right? No one
deserves that in general. But it's
subconscious in our mind that when
someone is uglier, you can get away with
[ __ ] with them more. You can respect
them less. And when I realized that
that's what was happening to me, I just
I was so angry. Just anger at the fact
that I had to let myself like stoop to
that point of of looks and let her um
essentially humiliate me cuz that that
was something that was fully in my
control. If I had, you know, kept my
looks at the same level or even better,
the positions would have been reversed.
I would have had technically more power
over her now cuz she would have, you
know, been respecting me even more than
when we had just started seeing that I'm
improving. So,
>> so you were more attractive when you met
her and then you started getting
>> less attractive.
>> Why? I was just super depressed being
alone all the way across the country
seeing all my friends party while I was
just interning in a apartment with four
roommates that were 15 years older than
me and I'd just go to the office and all
my co-workers were 15 years older than
me and I had nothing fun to do. I just
I'd go to work and I'd come back home
and I'd watch YouTube.
>> What internship were you doing?
>> I was doing a data science uh internship
in for a electric car charging company.
So just a lot of time on my computer
just talking to absolutely no one.
>> And you kind of stopped working out like
>> Yeah, I was I stopped working out. I was
just snacking on stuff because I was
stressing. The time zone difference was
big enough to where like I'd be, you
know, obsessively looking at my phone
anxiously because she wouldn't be
responding or like, "Oh my god, wait,
it's night time. There she's clubbing."
you know, just very insecure [ __ ] that
just would pile on because I'd get
insecure and then because I was insecure
and anxious, I'd start, you know, eating
more. I' i'd eat out of [ __ ] anxiety
and then I would get more insecure
because of it cuz I could tell that I
looked worse in the pictures I was
sending her. And all of a sudden, I'm
not sending her as many pictures. And it
just it just all snowballed. And at a
certain point, I just I snapped back to
it. I
stumbled onto a very important thread on
looksmax.org. One that was essentially
what changed my life and after that our
relationship changed for the better
until I cut things off with her in
person when I went back to college.
>> Did she cheat on you?
>> I I cons I consider it cheating. She
didn't like make out or do anything of
that with other people, but taking a
picture with two frat guys like holding
them and then asking for their Snapchats
is uh disgusting in my opinion. While
you have, you know, your boyfriend in
quotation marks or person that you want
to be dating um halfway across the world
just like working his ass off like just
texting you like heartfelt messages
saying that they miss you. I'd say
that's basically cheating.
>> So you get blackpilled.
>> Yeah. You go on the forums and you see a
thread. What does that thread tell you
to do?
>> It was a RAD 140 transformation thread
by my friend Numo.
>> What's that? What's RAV 140?
>> Renville 40 is a is a SARM selective
androgen receptor modulator. It's not
it's not actually like a steroids little
brother, but that's probably the easiest
way to explain it to the viewer. It is
very very very androgenic which means
that it improves your you know your
facial
your facial structure in in a way. The
the main reason the thread really
interested me was because this uh guy
who was you know a pretty boy before
with a not so masculine face suddenly
spawned in a very very robust chin. You
know something that I didn't think I had
at the time either right I thought
something that could be improved on. I
was like, "So, this guy just took this
RAD 140 SAR, which was, you know, an
oral liquid for 3 months, worked out a
little bit. My physique was still better
than his after the the the cycle, right?
But the changes in his face were, you
know, you couldn't deny them. So, I was
just astounded that this person had just
spent $50 and grown a chin and that
that's this was available to me the
entire time, but I just didn't know
about it." So, after seeing that, I was
like, "Okay, well, if there's one golden
nugget, there has to be more. What else
is there that I don't know about?" You
know, this guy just spawned in a chin.
Can I spawn in, you know, um, better
under eye support? Can I, you know,
spawn in better infrorbitals, which are
the bones underneath, uh, your eyes that
help you have a tight lower eyelids? So,
I just kept looking and I did more and
more research and that's where I
eventually made the decision to, you
know, quit the quit the [ __ ] not
just do a rad 140 cycle, but fully hop
on testosterone, which is, you know, a
lifetime commitment. It should be at
least. And it just evolved from there.
>> Do you have any plastic surgery?
>> Uh, no. I got Botox.
>> Botox?
>> Yeah, I got a I got a lip flip, but
that's not that's temporary, right? So,
it's it's faded now. Lip flip is where
they inject Botox into your upper lip in
order to out turn it out a little bit
more. It's to avoid having to get lip
filler, which for men is very difficult
to do right without, you know, looking
gay. And then I also got preventative
Botox on my forehead just to avoid
wrinkles and also to lower um your
eyebrows a little bit more to have a
more masculine gaze.
>> Would you ever get plastic surgery?
>> Um yeah, 100%. I think my the biggest
barrier for me has always been, you
know, money and the amount of work I'd
have to do and when I'd have the money
to actually do it. Cuz for for me, like
getting plastic surgery at an age where
everyone's going to find out and you're
already like not so young where like
you're going to enjoy all the effects of
finding a partner at an early age cuz
you improved your looks. It wasn't worth
it anymore. But you know, if you were
able to spawn me a million dollars right
now, right, and I could get leg lengthy
surgery 400k and legitimately just do
nothing for an entire year cuz just
going to use the rest of the 900k to
relax, recover, get the best physical
therapy possible to, you know, regain
the functions of my legs. I would get it
in a heartbeat, you know.
>> Do you plan on doing any of the
surgeries? I think that the amount of
time it would take me to get a million
dollars to afford a leg lengthening
surgery would be later in my 20s like 24
25. So at well not a million dollars
like net but to the point where I can
just spend like a million dollars and
still like be be comfortable. It just at
25 at that point I already want to have
a partner that that I'm interested in.
Right. So it would be too late. It have
to be like right now. And most people
just don't have that that access. Do you
think you're going to get a double jaw
surgery?
>> Depending on how the next months go with
the growth and, you know, my my income
with with streaming and everything else
that I'm planning on doing, then I I do
want to get a uh a consultation done
very soon because um a a big like
problem that I have is uh asymmetry from
my lateral pelvic shift because I have a
leg length discrepancy, which means one
of your legs is physically shorter than
the other. Some people have a non- like
physical leg length discrepancy which
means that it's more functional. You can
appear to have a shorter leg because
your hip might be tighter on one side
but mine has always been a little bit
shorter. Right? So this has made my
entire development be on this plane
instead of this one which has led to an
asymmetrical upper pallet asymmetrical
you know alignment. And that's something
that a double jaw surgery could fix and
help uh fix some slight uh maxilla
recession. So, for $30,000
and uh you know, around six months of
recovery, if I were able to afford it
like right now, I would. The only re the
only like drawback that I have is like
you said, we're growing really quickly
right now. We're blowing up and that
downtime can be make or break for
completely [ __ ] over your virality
and we're we're giga viral right now.
So,
>> do you think Clav will ever get his
double jaw surgery? Yeah, I think it's
just a a matter of him g getting his
[ __ ] passport again because he he
doesn't have it right now and um finding
the right time to do it cuz I personally
I I wouldn't [ __ ] I would drag him
back. I wouldn't let him take do his
[ __ ] surgery right now. It would be a
waste of um of time and a risk he
doesn't need to take. I mean, when you
really look at it, the double jaw
surgery for him is um a niece up his
sleeve that he can use whenever he wants
and he clearly doesn't need it right
now. his looks have already been at a
high enough level to prove his point,
which is that ascending has made his
life easier, and now he's getting all
this better treatment and opportunities
because of it. So, I think that is um
good deterrent for at least waiting a
little bit more to get it, but I I do
think he'd eventually get I mean, he
he's 100% about what he talks about. I
mean, just transparently, when I did the
podcast with him, I thought he was going
to get the double jaw surgery and then
after by the time I posted my podcast,
he'd gone so viral that I was like, I
don't think this dude's going to have
time to do it in the near future. Yeah.
So, it it makes sense, but
>> it's a downtime really that
>> Yeah, it's interesting that Looks Maxing
has been around so long and it's been
fairly I mean, there's levels to
mainstream, right? Uh but like K Shammy,
Dylan Latham blew up in 2022, 2023
talking about it. Cookie King talked
about it. Like it was still kind of
niche relatively, but with Clav, it's
just in news headlines all over the
world. Like why do you think Kovvicular
is so viral?
>> Because he's the actual face of Looks
Maxing. You know, no shade to any of the
other guys. they simply were aware of it
as well and part of the community, but
Clvicular was quite literally the the
face of the forum when he started
posting. He was the one doing the most
extreme stuff and showing people how to
do it, testing it out on himself,
willing to take the risk and teach other
people's how to take that risk
themselves. So, he's 100% going to be
more viral than the other guys cuz he's
doing [ __ ] they're not willing to do and
that no one else is willing to do
really. I mean, no one else on the
forums was doing it at least publicly.
you know, maybe they're doing it in
private, but not even showing other
people how to do it. But he was he has
the aspect which is he's teaching people
how to do it. And then the fact that no
one even is like ballsy enough to do
this to begin with and he's out here
saying people should do it. That's how
strongly he believes about it. I did it
on myself and I'm telling you, you
should do it too cuz look at how look at
where it took me. And then he got so
much [ __ ] for that, right? Until he
ascended during that one time frame
where he blew up and it was like, wait,
maybe he was right. And that's really
what pushed everything to the top
because they knew, damn, he believes it
and he just proved it. And all the
nayers just kept proving him right and
right and right because whenever they'd
be hate, something they'd always attack
is, oh, this is bad about his looks or
this doesn't look so good about you. So
you're trying to, you know, disprove him
by insulting his looks, which is his
main, you know, it's the main thing he's
pushing and how people will completely
change their like perspective of you or
their treatment of you completely just
based on your looks and you that's the
first thing you attack,
>> right?
>> It's like to try to this about his
message. It's it's extremely funny
because they just kept making him more
viral by doing that. That just proved
them more and more right. Something too
to note I think is that when K Shammy
and Dylan Latham talked about looks
maxing they kind of talked about soft
maxing a lot. Yeah.
>> Uh I think the only technical hard max
that Kami talked about was Accutane. Uh
you know just like that's the only
pharmaceutical intervention.
>> Yeah. And even then that wouldn't even
be that would still be considered a soft
max to everyone else in like the looks
maxing community. But
>> right
>> for the for the normies in in the
mainstream that's like okay this is like
wait K you're you're really recommending
this like this has negative side effect
it's like okay everything has negative
side effects that we recommend on
looksmax.org.
>> How many kids have you guys met that are
doing actual looks maxing
>> almost all of them now like really
>> basically every one of them asks about
peptides and that's already more
experimental I'd say than taking
Accutane.
>> Wow. Yeah. You got 15 year olds, 14 year
olds.
>> Have you met like any kid that you're
like, "Yo, bro, like maybe you shouldn't
be hitting yourself with the hammer or
like
>> No, I don't think um at least not that I
can recall right now. I don't think
we've met any that like fully like ours
say, like, oh, are you always just bone
smashing?" But I'm sure a lot of them
have like that we that we've met.
>> How does that make you feel? Oh, really
really strange, you know, cuz like I'd
never think that I'd have more than like
a handful of people to even talk to to
this about just like six months ago. I
talked about this with Clvicular and
Zeta and maybe like a two other guys.
Now there's random kids start pulling up
to my sister that know about it and that
are mentioning me and how I oh my god,
he knows clavvicular. Oh my god, like
what peptide should I take? kids like
what the [ __ ]
do you think kids should be taking
peptides?
>> I think it's
I think it's very beneficial to take
them when you're younger because that's
when you have, you know, the the
greatest results from them. But at the
same time, kids are really stupid. You
have to be the right kind of kid.
be able to ego check yourself as well
because I'm sure there's going to be
kids be watching this right now saying,
"Oh, I'm that guy. I'm that kid. I'm
this 15-y old kid. I'm super smart. I
just read a couple threads on.org. I'm
going to do this stack and bro,
everything's going to come out fine."
It's like, no, trust me, there's a very,
very small handful of you guys that are
going to be able to do it correctly. And
that's why it's important to you know
that that's why it's so important that
someone like Clvicular has been the one
to popularize it in a way because yes
there is a negative aspect of you know
introducing these younger kids to it but
at least he was someone that had done it
as a kid as one has done all the you
know research and the guinea testing to
disavow certain things and push other
things and he hasn't he doesn't push
anything he hasn't done on himself and
he will correct himself like he has gone
and corrected things he's done in the
past and say okay this is like don't do
this anymore. For example, the thumb
pulling.
>> What's something that you stopped
doing?
>> The thumb pulling was the first thing
that was like, okay, this is going. The
facial exercises as well, those could
have like minimal results, but they just
weren't worth the time. It's at a
certain point like you just have to pick
the handful that you think are going to
have the biggest impacts cuz the mental
fatigue of like the amount of [ __ ] you
really can like get into is it does get
to you. Like there's there'd be like
certain times where I like open up my
notes and be like, "Okay, here's my
ascension plan. Going to get okay, need
get lip flip, darken eyebrows, dye
eyelashes, too. Get uh let to lengthen
the the eyelashes. Start your DGH cycle.
Get a consultation for this. Go to the
orthodontic and ask for, you know, your
um Invisalign, but this time ask for
them to correct your crossbite." And
then you start getting way way way more
in depth. And at a certain point, okay,
am I going to have to worry about all of
these very frequently because a lot of
them aren't permanent. Like you having
to frequently redye your eyebrows or
your eyelashes or making sure your
hair's consistently got highlights in it
because it's got it's better for your
coloring or you're maintaining the
correct tan. It's like if you got to
worry about all these and also do a
certain amount of facial exercises every
day and and the right rep ranges apart
from your daily workouts that you're
doing to maintain your physique, it's
like it all adds on. It's can't you
can't have a full-time looks maxing job.
You still have to ascend in other areas
of your life.
>> But if looks maxing is true, like isn't
it pretty important? Like how much time
do you I mean, if we're being fair, like
I know you guys work all the time and
you're streaming and this thing is super
huge, but
>> it's more of a
a thing that you do while doing other
things. Like for example, like
technically if you're working and you're
maintaining good oral posture, right,
you're technically looks maxing at that
point, right? You're you're preventing
yourself from developing worse mouth
posture and slow slowly recessing
yourself over time just cuz you're
mewing. But in terms of like very active
looks maxing, it's really not that
timeconuming if you're sticking to like
the main things are going to have the
big results. You know, if you just like
any um routine that a girl would have in
the morning or even just a well-groomed
guy, you can line it out. Like for
example, something that I always do is
I'll always like curl my lashes after I
shower and put my shirt on. Make sure my
my eyebrows are, you know, brushed
properly and and you know, groomed,
plucked on on the sides in the middle.
Make sure to carry some Lumifi with me.
Make sure your scara is white. The scar
is the whites of your eyes. um some some
Vaseline for, you know, lip moisture.
Make sure I'm having adequate amount of
potassium. That's something that is
always on my list every day. Making sure
you have the right ratio of sodium to
potassium. Avoiding sodium at all costs.
You don't want to be bloating. You don't
want to be bloating. So, that's that's
honestly one of the main ones I feel
like all Looks Max are frequently
thinking about and it's on the forefront
of their mind is uh the the sodium. The
sodium the blood pill is brutal.
>> Hey, really fast. Did you guys know that
we started this podcast a little over a
year ago? And in that time, we've had
the chance to sit down with some of the
best entrepreneurs in the world. But
honestly, these conversations have kind
of made me question everything I thought
I knew about investing, saving money, or
retirement. Growing up, I was taught,
put your money in a 401k, get a Roth
IRA, and invest in the S&P 500. But what
I've realized recently is things are
changing fast. Crypto's becoming really
mainstream. The S&P barely outpaces
inflation. And I'm the guy that was
investing in it for the past few years
inside of his retirement account. That's
why I was so excited when I met the guys
at iTrust Capital. They let you invest
in gold and cryptocurrency directly in
your IRA, which I didn't even know was
legal. And if you have an existing Roth
or 401k, you can transfer it over for no
extra cost. You get all the tax
advantages while getting to invest in
assets that have way bigger upside and
aren't tied directly to the dollar. With
just a small 1% transaction fee, you can
buy Bitcoin, gold, even Fartcoin with a
tax advantage retirement account. I'm
currently in the process of transferring
my accounts over to their platform, but
if you guys want to do the same, go to
jackneal.comrust.
Anyway, back to the podcast.
>> Does it make that big of a difference? I
can't I can't even tell if I'm bloated.
>> It doesn't make as big of a difference
after you reach a certain level of
leanness. There's obviously there's way
less bloating to like occur, but it's
still just like with especially in the
in the US, the amount of sodium they put
into any food that's going to have
sodium like any salty foods is just you
can't you don't just have a little bit
like you'll instantly have like a
comical amount of it that's going to
bloat you like guaranteed
>> for me like I always see it. I mean I
don't know if that's also like the looks
maxing autism making me be hyperritical
of myself. For example, I'll avoid
eating before going out because I know
that like I'll have dinner, it's gonna
be something salty and I'd rather uh be
deep bloated and in a in a more flush
state.
>> Just to transition a little bit to know
more about you and kind of some of your
unique opinions and views on the world.
Do you think any girls actually like dad
bods?
>> No, I don't think anything that girls
say and comes out of their mouth is what
they really are attracted to or believe.
There's a lot of uh gaslighting that's
going on with uh with girls. Everything
that they say, "Oh, I want him to treat
me this way." Then they'll be attracted
to the complete opposite type of
treatment. I like this type of body.
They won't we don't we won't ever see
them hook up with a with a guy with a
dab bod. It's going to be a lean,
athletic looking guy with, you know,
well-developed facial structure. And
he's probably going to be um a slayer
that treats them with less respect than
they they are going to claim they want.
They're, "Oh, I'm worth so much. I'm
worth this. I don't need a man, but I'm
this independent." And then they'll get
it up with a guy that literally like
just treats them like [ __ ] and calls
them [ __ ] because deep down like they
don't know what they want. They they
they really don't. But neither do men a
lot of the times. It's it's it's pretty
interesting. You should, you know, go by
how people act, not know what they say.
Cuz I mean, people are they have no
reason to really tell you what what they
feel like cuz even subconsciously they
don't want to be judged, right? But
their actions will always like give them
away.
You can't really fake that. You can't
fake your attraction.
>> You don't think people tell you the
truth about how you look?
>> I mean, we've all seen in the comments
girls leave on their fat friends [ __ ]
Instagrams. You think they're telling
the truth? Oh, Slay Queen, you look
great. It's like, no, you look you look
>> And you think they do that? Why?
Honestly,
I don't know if it's like a fake nicity
that they all do because then it's
returned to them and it looks nice when
you have a bunch of girls just saying
you look great. Inflate everyone's ego.
Every everyone gets to inflate their
ego. You know, guys don't really do that
to each other. So, we stay a little bit
more, well, not a little more, but way
more level-headed. But girls from like a
young age and when they get social
media, they're just bombarded with
compliments. And um I mean, what are you
going to do? Tell your fat friend that
she looks fat? You're going to get
judged for it. I mean, if if a girl says
that to her friend to try to genuinely
help her out, she will be shunned for
it. Especially a couple years. I mean,
maybe a little bit less now that people
are getting a little bit less snowflaky
and uh you know, cancel cultury, but you
know, she'll still get [ __ ] on for the
most part.
>> Have you ever starve maxed?
>> Yeah, I'm starve maxing right now.
>> What does that mean to you?
um eating as little as possible or just
not eating at all for a whole day which
is often done by suppressing your
appetite with uh certain you know uh
drugs for example reaide how stimula I
mean suppresses your appetite but when
I'm like full-on starve maxing like I'll
just take my doctor's uh ADHD
prescription I'll I'll try to save it up
a couple days and I'll take it on the
weekends or Wednesdays so some days I
can take two. Yeah, it's normally in
preparation for some sort of a event
where you have to be peing. I mean,
models do it. It's it's you don't the
term starve maxing just is got a very
negative connotation to it because
obviously starving is a negative thing
but all models do it when getting ready
for a big event or big fashion fashion
show or a big shoot because I mean it's
not maintainable but if it's a one-time
event where like you're going to take an
image that's going to be captured you're
going to look better by doing it. If you
were going to walk on New York Fashion
Week, what would you do to prepare?
>> Three days before I'd have a lot of like
high, very nutritious food and then the
two days leading up to it, I'd have like
very little food and then the day right
before I'd have nothing to eat and try
to flush out as much uh liquid as
possible. I'm sure they probably I mean
I don't I'm not tapped into the model
world to that extent, but I'm sure they
apart from naturally flushing waters
out, they probably use diuretics as well
to really push over the edge. I mean,
that's just what sells for them, I
guess.
>> Just to look as good as possible in
general. Like, would you get a tan?
Like, what would be all the things?
Yeah.
>> Well, the first thing you need to find
out is your phenotype and what kind of
archetype you fall into as a as a guy or
as a girl. The best way to do this is
find a model you look like or an actor
you look like and try to mimic their
hairstyle, their coloring as as closely
as possible. Like for example, if you
find an actor and he has the same head
shape as you, same color eyes, um odds
are you're going to want to mimic their
hair color and their haircut and their
skin coloring as well. So for the most
part, everyone's going to benefit from a
tan. It's a very attractive feature.
Women are sexually attracted to it. But
there are some instances where people
are better off being a little bit pale
because there's there's three types of
colorings. There's a there's silver
coloring, bronze coloring, and then
golden coloring. We would have more
what's golden coloring. We'll have the
blonde hair. where we can have tan and
then blue eyes. Bronze coloring is more
so what you'd expect from, you know,
like uh Mediterranean, so Spaniards and
Italians, brown hair, brown eyes, and
still also a tan. And then silver
coloring is more so what you'd expect
from like uh Celtic people like Ian
Summerhaler maybe. Uh black hair,
striking blue eyes, and more pale uh
skin color.
>> Celtic people.
>> Yeah.
>> So like if you're Irish.
>> Yeah, exactly. More most North Atlantic
people are Irish. like Shauna Pry Ian
Summerhalder I'm pretty sure has Irish
ad mixture as well.
>> I'm Irish. I'm British.
>> Oh, there you go.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you if you dyed
your hair black or like let it darken
out, you'd you'd have the the same
coloring right now.
>> You think my coloring would be better if
I dyed my hair black and
>> got tanner? No, I I think like me, you'd
tan with the with the blonde woods
probably suit you better.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I think so. H
Where are you from originally?
>> Spain. which is ironic because I just
said Mediterranean have the the bronze
collaring, but I I happen to come out uh
golden I guess. Yeah. North of Spain,
specifically the Bas country, which is
this little very very little area in the
border of Spain and France. There's four
regions in Spain and three in France.
It's called Bas country, but it's not
actually a country because they didn't
they haven't allowed us to gain our
independence. But that's why my name's a
little bit odd. Your It's I O R I TZ.
It's not a Spanish name.
>> What's your last name? Eggor.
>> What's it?
>> Eggor. E G U I L E O R.
>> Huh. Interesting. And then why did they
call you Drago?
>> Drago Master is the username that I
chose for my second account on
looksmax.org. Because uh after I was
doxed, I had to delete my first one.
>> What was the first one?
>> Uh it's over Leon.
>> It's what?
>> It's over Leon. Leon. Like Leon.
Kennedy, the character from Resident
Evil. So when I joined, I was also a
doomer. like the same guys that I said I
don't I didn't want to be like anymore
after that certain point. I just it's
sober. Everyone everyone would say that
that phrase. It would just resonate with
me at the time. Especially cuz when I
made the first account was when my
girlfriend at the time was um you know
[ __ ] me over. So obviously I was on
my sad boy sad boy era. But the second
account was um right when I was like I
was more in like an uplifted spirit. I
was getting a [ __ ] ton of edits of uh
Dolph Lon Grin with Ivan Drego and uh
Rocky and Heave to me was like the full
package like Moger. He was like giga
Chad. He has like 150 IQ. He chemical
engineer and PhD, famous actor, black
belt karate, um, mogs, you know, just
good-looking overall, 65, insane
physique. Like, he had like the not even
the triad, like the trinity or what what
the combination of all the things you
could want as a as a man to succeed in
as many aspects as possible. So, I just
put Drago Maxer because we had to be
like, I'm in Drago.
>> It's crazy that it has 150 IQ, too. Um,
>> yeah. I mean, maybe slightly lower, but
he very high IQ.
>> I know it's super high. I've seen that
before. But do you
>> I think has two PhDs, not even just one.
It's pretty ridiculous.
>> Damn. He limaxed. Uh, do you
>> do you put a lot of importance on IQ?
>> Yeah. I even though I'm really focusing
on the streaming thing right now, I
would um I really want to go into cyber
security in the terms of like my
professional life. Like I want to use
all the money that I I'm able to
hopefully make over with the next year's
uh streaming and entertaining people and
making people laugh and use that to fund
my my company eventually cuz that's what
I'm majoring in right now. I'm still in
school. And
>> you're still in school?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was a C computer science
major, but I really just fell in love
with cyber security. I transferred to
online so I could, you know, still
stream and live with clvicular and get
my degree. And you know, it's it's kind
it's a [ __ ] grind. I'm not going to
lie. It's uh
>> Did you hear that he's in college?
>> Yeah,
>> dude. This This is the first podcast
guest where someone's in college,
>> actually.
>> Yes.
>> [ __ ] Yeah. Last semester. It's uh it's
last last bush.
>> Oh my god.
>> Yeah.
>> So, what I I think we should also give
people context too of like how many
hours have you been up for? Uh, so I
just came here straight after ending a
19hour stream. Um, where we started at I
think 8:00 PM and No, I think we started
earlier. I don't know. We started
sometime in the afternoon. 19 hour
stream, came straight here, you know,
filmed podcast back toback. And then
when I get back, I have to start stream
again. And uh, the day before that, I
streamed for I think like 15 hours as
well. So I've slept a combined eight
hours the last four days, I think.
something like that. But, you know,
right now we're viral, so you have to
put your head down and just [ __ ]
grind. You have to grind.
>> Yeah. What I'm realizing uh with all the
guys who come up is just like it really
is about putting in the [ __ ] work.
There's been so many podcast guests
where people don't seize the
opportunity, you know? It's like I'm
like, "Hey, I'm in this area." Dude, I I
was in Miami. I just posted a story with
Clav, who's the biggest streamer in the
world right now, arguably. And I texted
other people. I'm like, "Hey, you want
to do a podcast?" and they're like,
"Yeah, we can maybe do it next week."
I'm like, "Bro, just like come over here
and like film something." It's I don't
know.
>> Yeah, you got to seize the moment.
That's exactly how I feel about it right
now. It's like, yes, I'm you know,
putting strain in my body and negatively
affecting my health, but it's like
there's a lot of [ __ ] to be done and,
you know, extraordinary like results
take extraordinary measures and because
of the long hours that I've been putting
in, I've been able to get the attention
of, you know, bigger streamers.
Obviously uh being friends with
Clvicular helps with that as well, but
I've gotten recognition for the amount
of hours I'm putting in and it's really
helping, you know, grow really, really
quick. I mean, I've been streaming for
10 days and we've already got getting a
thousand viewers uh on average. So, it's
really good.
>> Do you think you're healthy?
>> Uh not right now, but give me like 3
days of rest and I'll I'll I'll be
healthyish,
you know. I haven't gotten my blood
markers checked. I I'm gonna do that
soon. You know, I just quit vaping. So,
I am on a tra upward trajectory apart
from the no sleeping, but I do I do want
a health max. You know,
>> you do care about your health.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I um I want to I don't want
to make my parents worry about my health
to a crazy degree. I mean, obviously
they already worry from the steroids,
but when you like are adding on more
[ __ ] on top of that, it's like, okay,
steroids I'm not letting go because
those actually make me look better. But
I can definitely let go like the vaping
and the other [ __ ] that is just out
of, you know, just it's just a bias. It
doesn't actually send me in any way.
>> What's the biggest difference in the way
that people treat you since you've
looked better?
>> They just respect you more. They're they
want to hear you out.
All the advice you give them, no matter
what it could be about, is just more val
more valid to them. This is something
that even non looks maxes, just people
to that go to the gym 100% know about.
Like you don't having a good physique
doesn't necessarily make you
knowledgeable or have good advice, but
the moment you gain a little bit of
results, you'll have friends and friends
of friends and family members coming to
you like you're some sort of authority
figure just because of the physique you
earned. You might just have good
genetics. They they don't know. But when
you can tell them any [ __ ] and
they'll believe it cuz the results speak
for themselves.
>> Yeah. When I met you, I was like, "All
right, this dude has jacked arms and he
has blonde hair and blue eyes. I have
blonde hair and blue eyes." I'm like,
"How the hell does he have eyelashes?"
That was like the first thing I asked
you. I was like, "Bro, what are you
doing for this? What's your plan to blow
up on social media over the next few
months?" I want to I want to have the
craziest work ethic out of all the
streamers with in with combining actual
like IRL with desktop because the
reality is yes streaming is extremely
competitive but
a lot of the biggest streamers are would
be my competition right now are low-key
pretty lazy and um I'm like the complete
opposite you know like I'm coming up
right now so obviously the hunger's
there but the other thing is that most
of the people that do IRL they
Since streaming started from gaming and
desktop content, the barrier for entry
for IRL people that came at the right
time recently was so low cuz like
anything in person is going to be more
entertaining that on a desktop. It's
extremely hard to beat that. And so you
got the people that are like just
clocking in at the at the correct time
that you know blew up because they
started at the right moment. But that
doesn't necessarily mean that they're
the most entertaining people in the
world. that their platform can't be just
replaced by someone that's actually
gonna put in more hours and be more
entertaining and have the, you know, be
part of the the niche that's most vow
right now. But honestly, my plan is just
to grind really long hours, cultivate
as positive of a community as I can, and
I've we've done a great job so far. I
mean, Kick is known for being a lot a
lot more toxic than than Twitch, but I'm
honestly really impressed. Like I've
been hearing like all my community is
super super positive right now. So I
just I want to keep doing that cuz I
think it's a breath of fresh air in a
streaming space where people are used
like rage baiting people and being
controversial on purpose, not
necessarily organically just to piss
people off and cross drama. I think
sometimes being so far into the opposite
side can actually be better. And that's
kind of what I want to do. Obviously,
I'll still do some [ __ ] [ __ ] and and be
controversial, but it won't be chasing
the the same negative type of vibe that
they are.
>> Which one do you think will get you
bigger results?
>> I know that the one that would get me
viral first at a at a bigger following
quicker would be be super controversial
and um problematic and, you know, just
wild. Just goal and do crazy [ __ ] But I
um I prefer having a long-term streaming
career cuz streaming is really something
that can come and go pretty quickly.
That's why like taking it more slow,
taking the more hours, just being
essentially
always there for for the community and
just slowly but surely, you know,
getting more in tune with them, seeing
what type of content they they like and
are going to keep liking over over the
long run. Cuz you can't really do that
when you're doing um viral clips and
controversy. Like if someone enjoys
something, they enjoy something. No one
enjoys controversy for the controversy.
It's just it's spiral. It's uh makes you
feel that certain emotion at that point,
but what what it is is not it's not a
consistent thing. You have to keep
finding it.
>> Do you tell girls that you look specks?
>> I didn't before, but now I just So, it's
interesting cuz I was getting to a point
where I was like, "Fuck, I'm going to
have to start telling girls that I do
cuz I wasn't before. I was I was hiding
it by all means." But now it's gone from
one end to the other so quickly that's
like I don't need to tell them because
they already know. So, I kind of skipped
that step. But like
>> why' you used to not tell them? You just
want to appear like you're not putting
effort into the results you're getting.
Like if a girl thinks you're
good-looking and realizes you spend, you
know, even just an hour of your day on
your looks, now it's manufactured. It's
fake. It's kind of like television. You
know, the magic gets the the magic of
television gets thrown away if you see
all the behind the scenes on how
everything works. Same with a magic
trick. All of a sudden, it's not magic.
>> What do you think is the core reason
though? like uh from like a nature
perspective.
>> If your looks come from, you know, using
certain types of techniques and curling
your eyelashes, it's not natural. You
weren't born with the genetics to have
those longer lashes to protect you from
debris or whatever it may be, which is,
you know, a good mating signal or that
you make a good mating partner. Instead,
you faked it. And if they know you faked
it, then they know you're not as, you
know, well fit to recreate with than the
guy that doesn't. M
>> like you do not want to let girls know
you're working out consistently, you
know, meal prepping. They'd rather think
that you just lift hay bales and you
just you're high testosterone, you you
lift heavy stuff and you work for your
family and your genetics are so good and
you're so fit for, you know, bearing
children and being a father that you
have a great frame and physique because
of it. Not that you pin IGF-1 to
artificially grow your clavicles and,
you know, improve your belltoid, which
is the distance between your shoulders.
Sorry, I laughed. The button ripped on
it. I thought it was too much
frame.
>> Frame marked the shirt.
>> That's what first popped to my mind. I
was like, "No way, bro. [ __ ] chest is
too big for my
>> The fact that you're wearing my shirt,
too." The time Drago mogged [ __ ] Jack
Neil's shirt with his chest.
>> We got We got to get you to do it next
uh next podcast. Just hit that for the
guest.
>> What's the fastest way to grow your
biceps?
hop on roids and do bicep curls every
day. That's basically what I did on
ironically once once I got on steroids
and I wasn't like well I was
consistently hitting the gym but even
when I wasn't like I'd still do curls
every day. Just if you have frequent
stimulus the muscle is going to grow.
it's gonna grow. And
>> do you have to be like that careful with
uh the technique
>> for
>> and stuff? Like do you think it's kind
of cop to like worry about like the
exact
>> the mind of muscle connection and the
pump
>> and like the hypertrophy and like all
the reps like do you have to be that
meticulous about it?
high if you're doing high intensity
>> actually the it depend there's different
training um principles and whether
you're natty or not can like change
what's more efficacious but when you're
not natty like the frequency it's just
like you recover at such a fast rate
that you can literally just be swinging
[ __ ] around and you're getting stimulus
left and right it doesn't [ __ ] matter
just do something it's been shown in
studies that people I forget if it was
trying another steroid but they
essentially just pinned it and just lard
they they laid down and rotted and still
gain muscle. So now imagine that, but
you're doing curls every day. You're
going to [ __ ] make absurd gains. Make
absurd gains.
>> The first time I ever worked out with
someone who uh did steroids, it was
these two huge guys walked in the gym
and like here I am doing these like slow
bicep curls like being so ridiculous and
they literally like throwing them and
I'm like, "How the [ __ ] are you guys not
tired?" And they did like 50 reps and
then they like took a break for 10
seconds and then they did 50 more reps
and I was like, "This is ridiculous."
It's cuz yes, it's bad form. They're
swinging, but your bicep doesn't know
what a swing is. It doesn't It doesn't
know what bad form is. All it
understands is mechanical tension and
how much load it's under. So, if he's
swinging it, but he's just swinging a
[ __ ] 100 pound dumbbell 50 [ __ ]
times, that's a lot better than [ __ ]
doing a 10 pound dumbbell lasting 10
seconds [ __ ] meditating and getting
your brain in the muscle for the mind
muscle connection, you know?
>> Yeah. It's really interesting. So, so
you think a lot of that stuff is cope?
Yeah, I was honestly very um form pill I
guess or mind to muscle connection build
when I first started working out just
because Arnold was a figure of it that
would push it all the time. You know,
after Pump the Pumping Iron movie, he'd
say the pump felt like coming to him and
how important it was. But after some
like dude, like I can't be doing every
rep for this [ __ ] long. I'm got
[ __ ] homework to do. I got to get
home. Let me just pick up a heavier
weight and do less reps but do more
intensity.
>> Do you think most of muscle building is
genetic? Yes.
>> Even like steroids like it matters.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Your your response to the
steroids can be night and day. Like
there's people taking legitimately
5x the amount of what I take or
clvicular takes and they have subpar
results. Like when I started and I was
just only doing test. I
was barely doing any. I was doing the
same dosage I'm at now which is
considered TRT. But people are thinking
you're like blasting, right? Like even
300 is considered like a beginner dose.
It's kind of like a baby dose and that's
the highest I've ever even been touched.
Then you have people that are natural
and still have a better response to
training stimulus than people with
subpar genetics and steroids. So it's
like the it's it's it's honestly pretty
brutal because you know you want to
think okay is it not worth it to hop on
steroids for guys that are unfortunate
to have good you know uh response to
them but it's like well you're still
worse off without them right? So, it's I
mean that's a decision they have to
make. I'm just I'm very blessed that
that wasn't the case for me. But yeah,
it's the genetics are everything for
every single aspect of your life, even
your IQ and everything.
>> It's crazy cuz I think a lot of people
assume that if you take steroids, uh
like me, I think I have particularly
small arms and like small biceps.
>> Mhm.
>> I used to assume that if I took
steroids, my arms would just naturally
be big and like everything would be big.
But in reality, it's like no, like it's
just genetics. Like they'll never grow
in comparison to the other parts of your
body that are
>> Yeah.
>> Androgenic, you know?
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like they'll 100% grow
past the point that would have never
been being possible. But yeah, that's
why you have to be really careful on
gear as well, cuz if you continue
training the same way you were
naturally, like all of a sudden your
chest is already a strong point. I know
it's a strong point, but it's responding
even better to the to the gear than your
other your other, you know, muscles.
It's like you can get out of proportion
quickly. You do kind of have to like re
re sit down and re rehash and plan a
proper way to work out when you decide
to hop on and just I mean honestly if
you were to hop on I'd be like just
don't hit chest and literally just spam
biceps like for four times a week cuz
it's all about it's all about balance
and and symmetry.
>> Do you think the ASU frat leader is
natty?
I think um I think he has a insane work
ethic and uh he works really hard and he
takes care of his diet and he's just uh
he's very consistent with his creatine
where where were you when Clvicular got
mocked by the ASU frat leader?
>> I was standing right next to the camera.
I may have even been holding the camera.
I'm not sure cuz that's right when I was
uh holding it for a brief second while
our cameraman Brock went to take a piss,
but it might have been right after he
came back and gave it to him. But
honestly, I don't think any of us
registered it at the at the time. It's
that's what's so crazy to see it blow up
to I mean that's like literally one of
the most viral memes I've ever seen.
It's kind of ridiculous seeing like even
old boomers like saying like jester
going and [ __ ] like that. It's like wow.
>> Yeah. I I thought it was crazy. I think
it's like the biggest thing of any of
your guys's antics.
>> Yeah, I think it's Yeah. Yeah.
>> Huh.
>> Which is ridiculous because I mean the
antics they they're pretty crazy the
ones that it's competed with, but
somehow the [ __ ] ASU frame mog ed
etched them all out. Hm. It's so funny
because
frame mogged like people don't even
realize
I sound like a [ __ ] form dweller
right now, but uh people people don't
even realize that like Clav's whole
thing is like his clavicles.
>> Exactly. That's why it's so ironic. I
mean his his username is luch
clavvicular which is indicating the fact
that he has a good frame which he does.
He does have a good frame.
>> Right. But you think the average person
hears the frame mog thing and they even
know that?
>> No, they don't even I don't even think
they know that that's why his name is
Dan. So it it just sounds rid I think it
just sounds ridiculous. That's why it's
viral.
>> It's legitimately just ridiculous. It's
that's why it's funny. Like the majority
of these people are making it go viral
don't even realize like the second step
of why like it's ironic and and funny.
It just they just think it sounds and
it's funny to them.
>> This is a weird one, but do you think
the black pill going mainstream has made
the black pill more real?
Yeah, I think it has cuz it took
something that we all know is
subconscious and now everyone is
consciously thinking about it which only
reinforces your subconscious as well. So
it's like the fact that girls are so
aware of this now is honestly kind of
scary, you know, like they're
>> like they care about looks even more
than they did before.
>> Yeah. And they're aware of like the fact
that we know they care about looks too
now. And the fact that we're working on
our looks because we know they care that
much more now, which which really like
[ __ ] puts the guys in a [ __ ] position
because, you know, we all know girls use
makeup to look better and like men don't
really like see them any differently
because of that. But now like the girls
have like this thing in the back, not
even the back of their mind, the front
of their mind's like, damn, this guy
I'm, you know, going out to see right
now or like just met at the club is
probably wearing like some concealer and
a little bit of eyeliner. What the [ __ ]
Like I wonder what he looks like without
it. this bro's probably a insecure chud.
That's like that's basically what their
subconscious is going to be saying now.
So, it's like you you it really does put
guys in a more difficult situation now
cuz it doesn't affect girls as hard.
They're not judged uh the same way for
wearing makeup.
>> Yeah. It's it's weird because if if we
were girls, right, like we would
probably just wear makeup because that's
the thing that girls do.
>> Yeah.
>> I wonder if it'll get to a point where
they just like expect guys to look sex.
Yeah, like you came you came to a date
with me and you're not even wearing
eyeliner or some like BB cream. Like
what are you doing? Your your skin's all
like red and Oh my god.
>> Honey, have you been bone smashing?
>> Yeah, for real. Why is your Why are your
psychos not swollen? What are you doing?
What are you doing,
>> man?
>> It's probably going to end up like that.
Honestly, it's not even a We're like
laughing and we're joking, but it's we
should be crying instead. I think it's
going to end up like that.
>> What was Androgenic doing to look back?
Last that I know, when he came to visit
us in LA, he took a super long Esther of
test. I think it's called test. I'm just
going to say test you. That's what
that's what it's called. It's short for
something else. But long estester means
that the halflife is very long. And
since he was going to be away for a long
time, he just pinned a really really
high dosage of it.
>> How much did he pin?
>> I don't even know. But like a lot,
enough to last him for like the two or 3
weeks trip.
>> What would you guess that is?
>> I think it was like 2 something 2 point
something grams. So 2500 mg.
>> Yeah. Yeah. 2500 mg, I think, in one in
one go. It might it might have been
higher, honestly. I'm not sure, but I
knew he was doing that. And he brought
diuretics. He's he's honestly looking
pretty good on on that trip uh to LA,
but now obviously he's he's come off
[ __ ] Hey, props to him. He just got a
hair transplant and um you know, his
rhino done. No longer going to be a
Polish father of of six as the Tik Tok
comments are saying. But, you know, it
takes it takes balls to show yourself
while um while recovering from these
surgeries. It makes you look
significantly worse for a short period
of time until you get ascended from
them.
>> Who's had the craziest ascension in the
looks maxing community?
>> I'm going say cookie. No, if I if I had
to be for real on uh it might be
I think um Nocturnal K has a pretty
crazy transformation. He's he gets a lot
of [ __ ] but he I think he ascended the
furthest because his starting point was
probably the lowest cuz like when I
think of like Androgenic when he
started, I actually thought he looked
like pretty decent. He was just like a
very lanky, skinny guy with, you know, a
hooked nose. But I mean, within like a
year of like working on with the tan, he
already looked like a decently
good-looking person. I would even argue
that Andrew Jennick descended himself a
little bit past his prime. And his prime
was two years ago. I mean, now he's
going to reach a new prime since he did
surgery, but Nocturnal can I think had
the lowest starting point com relative
to their current point in terms of like
the amount of increase that they've
done.
>> Interesting. Are you infertile
>> at the moment? Yeah. Until I decide to,
you know, do my course of HC hg at HMG,
I won't be fertile, which is kind of
nice cuz, well, actually, I should be
wearing condoms regardless for STD sake,
but I've I have a feeling so far. So
good, you know.
>> Do you think ugly people should have
kids?
>> Um,
I think they should do what makes them
happy. If they want to have kids, they
should. But I think as an ugly person,
your goal should be to, you know,
artificially make yourself as
good-looking as possible to find someone
that's naturally good-looking so that
your kid doesn't suffer the same fate as
you. Like for example, when you see
maybe not an ugly person, a short dude,
it should be essentially his mission to
try to find a taller girl that might be
able to to help his his son not, you
know, follow the same fate as him. I
mean, it's not even messed up to do like
there's a reason why certain tribes in
Africa are so tall. It's like the women
are choosing to to to breed with a
taller men with their children in mind.
So, it's I think it's it's kind to do
for your kid. I I don't think they
shouldn't have any kids, per se. I mean,
you're better off we we need them to
have uh kids. They just need to not
settle. Like, don't obviously don't mix
an ugly person with an ugly person. I
mean, you guys obviously both didn't try
to to ascend then.
>> So, you think hypergamy is based?
>> I think it'd be based if it was a equal
it was proportional on on both ends,
>> you know, but it's it's not
unfortunately. Like you think guys
should be hypergamous too?
>> Yeah.
>> Huh?
>> Only very few little guys can though. I
mean every woman can is is hypergamous.
But like guys can really only be
hypergamous if you have all three of the
you know looks, money, status there. You
can really just upgrade 24/7.
>> How tall are you?
>> Uh 510 and 3/4ers. But I'm wearing lifts
right now. So
>> how much does height matter when it
comes to getting women?
>> It matters a lot, bro. I mean,
especially now, I mean, the average
height is only has increased and social
media has like made it like essentially
like always be mentioned. Even girls
that didn't originally like care that
much about height now have it in the
front of their mind that like, oh, tall
guys are more attractive or it's a good
thing to to get with a taller guy. And
also subconsciously,
>> has a girl ever rejected you for being
5'11?
>> No. My all the girl that I'm seeing
today is 5'11. My ex-girlfriend was 5'11
and the one the girl I hooked up before
that was also 5'11. So I I like taller
girls. I wouldn't say I'm insecure about
my height. Obviously I' I'd prefer to be
taller. Just I mean it's more of a The
reason I prefer to be taller is cuz my
dad is taller than me. So it just kind
of pisses me off. It's like bro what the
[ __ ]
I'm I'm never going to be like looking
looking down at him. The the whole goal
is to like surpass your parents, right?
But I it doesn't really make me
insecure, honestly. Like, it's annoying
because women will assume you're
insecure about your height when you're
not 6 foot, right? So, you could be
someone that's my height or even shorter
and be completely secure in your height,
but they'll project that you're insecure
about it onto you. They'll go like
short, blah, blah, blah. It's like,
[ __ ] I don't care. Like, I'll get with
a 61 girl. Like, I I'll climb a tree. I
don't give a [ __ ] It's like, it's fine.
Like, but I do understand that being
taller is more attractive and better.
There is a sweet spot like 6'3 to 6'5 is
the most ideal for sure.
>> I guess like a big thing with the Black
Hill is like there's PSL and general
like how your face looks. Uh your rating
and then there's also like height is a
big factor in it. Uh yeah,
>> but you like you're a fairly attractive
guy. You're one inch under like the cut
off of what women consider to be like,
"Oh, he has to be six feet tall." Like,
does that uh like it never holds you
back really?
>> Well, the thing too is like with
heightian, everyone just lurps a couple
like one inch more, too. Like it's it's
it's [ __ ] but like on if you're
5'10 or 5'11, just put six foot on your
dating profiles.
genuinely. It's cuz for some reason
that's just a metric that they're going
to like be sussing out and looking for
when in person they won't necess they
won't be able to tell a difference
unless they're 5'10" or taller
themselves. I mean, it's been shown in
studies that women are extremely bad at
judging uh, you know, not just height,
but decisive, you know, penises and [ __ ]
like that. They have an extremely bad
ability of of estimating. So, you should
use that to your advantage cuz the
highlation is going to [ __ ] you over if
not.
>> So, women can't tell that you're under
six feet. I mean, I don't clean six feet
in person to be honest. I changed it in
my social medias just more so as an
experiment because I don't really I
don't meet up with girls from uh from
dating sites whatsoever. It's just like
a video game to check my ELO, see what
rank I am cuz then you know what type of
girls you can talk to in person and
succeed with.
>> What's the most blackpill thing you've
seen in person?
>> Well, really blackpilled me was shortly
after I like started going on the forums
and ascending and my ex-girlfriend had
taken that picture of the Fat Boys. I um
went clubbing and I hooked up with this
girl and she asked me to like [ __ ] her
in the elevator uh in the street and it
was like
>> in the street.
>> Yeah. Like she in the streets of Milan.
And I was like, "Okay, that's like too
freaky. I'm not doing that." Like I'll
do the elevator but not not out in the
streets. And I take her home. Um, and I
wake up and I found out that she has a
boyfriend of four years that she was
literally in like traveling with like in
town with and just gone clubbing alone
and then just was [ __ ] another dude
[ __ ] in the elevator in public. Like
not just like regular. Like that's like
so like
why go to that extent? Like it just
seems like so like I just got [ __ ]
over and then now I just [ __ ] this
dude over. I felt bad, but I was like,
"This could have been me."
>> Is that common for you?
>> The what? Cucking people? No. No. I I I
don't like hitting on girls with
boyfriends.
>> How many times have you realized though,
like after the fact?
>> That That was the the only time. Oh
[ __ ] No. I think it's happened like one
other time. I mean, normally I can like
sus it out pretty well, but like this
girl, I like genuinely had no [ __ ]
clue.
>> What's the most toxic belief in the
Looks Maxing community? probably the
ethnic tax
which is basically just like your
ethnicity can uh completely tax like
subtract from your looks like
significantly
like you could be a very good-looking
Indian guy like an Indian Chad you you
could say and they just really believe
that like it's essentially equivalent to
like a white a white dude that's like um
htn a high tier norm like above like you
know 70% or whatever it may
just because they're they're they're
Indian. I don't personally
believe that. I think
>> Can you break it down for me? Like
>> the ethnic tax?
>> Yeah. Yeah. What's like the belief?
>> It's a Well, I mean, it's just I mean,
it's based on some truth. I mean, just
in terms of like what the beauty
standard is for, you know, ma male and
female. It's euro euroentric features.
So, it's going to be fairer skin,
lighter eyes, you know, straighter hair,
a smaller nose,
those types of features. And you're not
going to observe those as frequently in
uh Indian people for example. I mean
Indians just get [ __ ] on everywhere in
the internet regardless. But that's like
the main ethnicity that gets taxed on uh
on the forums. You can also get ethn
ethnic taxed as a as a black person or
uh as an Asian. But I personally just
believe that you're either either
good-looking or you're not. You know,
like if you're a good-looking Asian
dude, you're good-looking Asian dude.
Like if the girl thinks you're
good-looking, she's not like, "Oh, but
you're you're an Asian good-looking
dude. So now I don't think you're
good-looking." It just it just it's
boring. She either does think you're
good-looking and she'd [ __ ] you or she
wouldn't.
>> Is there anything else that's brutal on
there?
>> Um,
any other brutal beliefs? Um, the dog
pill probably.
>> The what?
>> The dog pill.
>> What's the dog pill?
>> There's a significant amount of girls
who are
how would I break this down? I wouldn't
say it's been shown in studies, but it
is anecdotally frequent that women that
own large dogs are like pretty likely to
have like some sort of sexual
intercourse with them or like get like
very physically like touchy more so than
with like smaller dogs or even men with
their dogs. It's kind of similar. It's
the same case with uh horses, male
horses. That's why you should you should
actually look out for women that have
male horses. There's like I mean I've
seen crazy videos where like they'll be
thirsting over like a stallion does like
a a a horse [ __ ] like a genuine horse
[ __ ] and there's like women like making
comments about it. It's like what the
[ __ ] But it's real. It's real.
>> So women with big dogs
>> Yeah.
>> are more likely statistically to what?
>> To indulge in some sort of sexual
intercourse with them.
>> I mean I don't know if that's
>> Do you know the stats on it?
>> I want to I You should look you want to
pull up a thread. Bro,
>> this is the craziest [ __ ] thing I've
heard all day.
>> The I mean I don't I'm not sure where
the statistics were pulled from, but
around the year like 2004 2006 the
searches the search volume for you know
dog and you know realistic dough were
you know around equal which is pretty
concerning. I mean why do you want a a
dog shaped?
>> Huh?
>> Yeah. on the forums in general. What's
the darkest post you've ever seen
someone make on the looks maxing forums?
>> It wasn't a the post itself, but the
fact that it was the last post by an
individual that committed suicide
because of another forum member and it
was a notable member too. And you know,
obviously there were other reasons for
why that user had committed like uh
bullying in real life on whatever it may
be. But when you get home and you try
to, you know, escape from reality and
the thing you come to is a person that's
respected in that forum essentially
telling you it's over and that you
should, you know, end it all. And that
pushes you over the edge, then obviously
that's like extremely dark and brutal
and and this kid was obviously being
bullied in uh in school was special
needs, I'm pretty sure. And then he just
goes back and is browsing the forum
trying to get some hope of what he can
do to improve himself. And someone
that's respected in the community is
telling him to just end it all and that
it's over and that he's, you know,
beyond saving and he's subhuman. And
then they actually went ahead and did it
and it got the forum uh investigated by
the FBI, I'm pretty sure, or at least
was put on the watch list.
>> What did he do you remember the post he
made specifically about the kid? Did he
just say it's over? Like what did he
say?
>> I don't I mean it's it was more than one
post, I'm pretty sure. cuz I mean this
guy was like pretty adamant when he
doesn't [ __ ] with you he'll like just
brutalize you. Um but the name of the
user was Sherry Sex. So rest in peace to
him, you know.
>> That's really sad to hear. Is that
common? Have you seen that happen a few
times or is that a one time thing?
>> I think there's more than one case of
it. Maybe not specifically in the
forums, but you know there's the forums
and there's the the the Discords that
come from them. You know, not everyone
that's on the Discords is in the forums
and vice versa. So, I think there have
been other cases for sure on Discord,
but I wouldn't be aware of them. I don't
think you can only imagine it's such a
negative community and you know, some
people just do this for fun, honestly.
Like there's extortion groups and [ __ ]
that will like just try to get people to
like So, it's not that weird to think
that some there's people like that in
like an incelridden community like Looks
Max.
>> Why do you think people do that?
their lives are miserable and since they
can't find any way to improve it or they
don't want to put the work in to to do
so they think that making other people
miserable or you know complete be at
their lowest point humanly possible is
uh brings them satisfaction in a way. I
don't know it's very it's very strange.
I've never understood it honestly.
>> What would you say you're the most
insecure about?
um
my my nasolibial folds right now and my
uh asymmetries
essentially. Nasolibial folds are like
the lines that come out here as you
start aging. I mean they're natural in
men. You get them earlier, but it's a
sign of a less developed maxilla.
It's not like crazy insecurity, but like
especially in like harsher lighting with
flash, like it'll come out and it just
like makes you look older. It's like not
ideal.
>> How do you fix that?
>> Use Bmax for it. You know, if you
advance your maxilla, it should um
create a little bit more support,
stretch out the flesh so the fat's not
drooping down. Tech technically, you I
could try to get rid of it without
surgery by using like aqualix to
dissolve the the fat that's
accumulating. Cuz the reason this
happens is there's a bane here where the
fat will like hold up and then it
accumulates here. You could technically
try to get rid of the fat, but I mean
when it's a structural issue, it'll
everything will just keep coming down as
gravity takes its takes care of it. So
the best solution is to provide
structure underneath it, which is
through, you know, osteotoies.
>> What's a conspiracy theory you 100% know
is true?
>> I think Aartha and Atlantis are both
real. I mean, what really like sus me
out is uh when Mr. Beast was uh talking
about it and like XC with it was like
him, XC and Aiden Ross and they were
talking about uh Antarctica and XG was
kind of like [ __ ] with Mr. Beast by
saying like oh yeah cuz he doesn't we
didn't even let get get allowed to like
fly over the stone wall because that's
where they keep this this and that and
like bro his reaction was like just so
[ __ ] sus.
>> What's one thing that you wish there was
a drug for? just like flat out like
genuine
like a a switch for inhibition that
wasn't like through all these [ __ ]
mechanisms. Like obviously there's
certain mechanisms you have to hit that
do lower your inhibition but like if
there was a way to just say I take this
inhibition off everything else is
unaffected like I'm not going to be you
know more sloppy or you know be drowsing
and stumbling over myself because a lot
of these drugs that lower your
inhibition do so by essentially making
you like lower stress but also more
[ __ ] If there was a drug that just
lowered it, you know, make you more
willing to take risk without anything
else being changed because I mean you
could argue that certain steroids make
you lower inhib, right? Because you're
more willing to take risk, you're more
driven, but they often come with other
like changes in mentality for other
things that may not be what you want.
Like if you could just keep everything
else in your mind levelheaded but just
low inhib that would I think change a
lot of people's lives because I feel
like a lot of people where they really
[ __ ] up is they don't take the first
step. They don't take action. They'll
spend their whole lives just planning
thing and having this dream that they
wanted to fulfill but then they don't
take the first step because they're too
scared of the what if or like well but
what if what if I'm judged for this or
this is going to fail. Instead of just
being able to trade it off it's like
okay I'll just do it. Whatever happens
happens.
>> What's your favorite Blackpool song?
>> Oh, actually, yeah. Nuts by Lil Peep.
>> Nuts.
>> Yeah, I think that's what it's called.
This one.
>> I for sure know this one.
>> That's the song that Cookie King blew up
too, right?
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> Do you think Cookie Mogs?
>> Yeah, dude. He mocks hard right now. He
He He's looking great. I'm proud of him.
That's a [ __ ] ton of weight. It's
actually like crazy to look back like at
the videos from when we first met. I'm
like, what the [ __ ] Like,
>> cuz I've gotten Yeah. I've gotten used
to seeing him skinny now. So, it's like,
dude, I can't imagine him like
physically being in my like near me fat.
>> Yorts, what's the worst piece of advice
you've ever received?
>> To give up and that it was over for me
and to basically just like do do
nothing, to just give give up and be
sad. I was they they were quite
literally telling me to just embrace my
my fate and that I was I was done for.
And um you know I genuinely did listen
for uh a little bit. I mean they got so
in my head with all the persistence and
threats. I mean it I wouldn't even call
it advice. Essentially forced it into
into my mind that it was over because of
how adamant they were about it and the
the pressure they were putting on it.
And I believed it. So, I withdrew from
my entire semester of school, stopped
talking to all my friends, stopped
working out. Uh, just literally just lay
in bed all day and do nothing. I'd lay
down and rot quite literally. And I
probably did that for like two weeks and
a half until like something just like
came at me and snapped. I was like, why
the [ __ ] am I letting these uh people
dictate my life? Why? Like, is it over?
It's like, give up. Like I can literally
just get up right now. I can get up and
today's a new day and do something ultim
million times more productive than
anything they can do which is to just
try to do the most try to do everything
I can every day like just I just try to
go as hard as possible and if you can
tell yourself that you went the hardest
you could have every day then you will
get to a happy state of your life you
know whereas like if I had listened to
them like I probably would have not not
been here I'm not going to lie but like
that [ __ ] is very depressing ing. I
thought I couldn't go to school. I was a
disappointment to my parents cuz I have
no degree and I was just a [ __ ] looks
maxing [ __ ] loser that doesn't even
looks max anymore cuz I gave up on it.
>> Why don't you like when people say it's
over in looks maxing?
>> Because
it's just not true, you know? Like why
is it over? Because you say so? Who the
[ __ ] are you? There's so many things
that can happen at any given time. You
know, your life could change at a
moment's notice. You just have to be in
the right place at the right time. Like
obviously there's luck involved in
everything in life, but that luck is
only going to get used if you're
prepared for it and you're, you know,
putting yourself in that place where you
can get lucky. So just never give up.
>> It's not over.
>> It's not over.
>> What's the best piece of advice you've
ever received?
>> I think the saying goes, fall down six
times, stand up seven times. or it go
it's something along those lines. And it
just completely goes with how my dad
raised me, which is just that no matter
what, like you can always stand up.
Every failure in your life, you just
need to get up one more time and try
again. And that could be the last time
you fall, you know, and even if it
isn't, you just stand up again. You keep
going, you know? It's only you're only
done if you stay on the ground. Like if
you're capable of standing up, you know,
not physically, but just even your
spirit, if you don't let anything like
keep you down, you will always like come
to a you you always achieve your goals.
You know, you have to I mean, it's the
energy that you put into everything you
do completely dictates the result. Like
if you're a sour and a a sad person just
going through the motions, like of
course you're never going to get
anything extraordinary. But if you're
just giving it your absolute best,
putting every piece of your like will
and heart into everything that you do
that you care about, you're you're bound
to [ __ ] you're bound to do something
extraordinary.
>> Well, everyone, this has been your
guest, Drago. Where can people find you?
>> kick.comrago and then dragaxer on every
single social media. Thank you so much
for having me, Jack.
>> Yeah, appreciate it, man. Thanks for
coming on. Thank you.