Link: https://youtu.be/UkKwa4jU0fc

Duration: 225 min

Short Summary

This episode presents compelling testimony about the 1996 Varginha, Brazil UFO incident—often called "the modern Roswell"—featuring investigator James Fox and witnesses including neurosurgeon Dr. Italo Venturelli, geography teacher and pilot Carlos Doza, and Dr. Armando, a former municipal health secretary. Key evidence includes a Tic Tac-shaped craft, memory-metal debris that returned to its original shape, an alien entity treated at Hospital Regional described as resembling a seven-year-old child with lilac eyes, the mysterious death of soldier Marco Sharesi from an extraordinarily virulent bacterial infection allegedly contracted from contact with the being, and suspicious excavation activity at the crash site 26 years after the incident.

Key Quotes

1. "I'm not asking. I'm giving you an order. If you don't leave, I'm going to blow your brains out." (00:14:49)
2. "He wasn't an adult. He was like a seven-year-old child, covered here, the hand inside, here the hand outside, very calm, at ease. The skull looked like a drop. The eyes also looked like two drops. Lilac, not red. White skin, no foul smell." (00:33:49)
3. "For us to be the only ones with life would be like looking at your own belly button and saying, 'I'm the only being that exists on planet Earth.' In other words, that's impossible." (00:59:57)
4. "The question is no longer whether extraterrestrial life exists. That question is minimal. The real question is who are they and what are their intentions? That's the big question." (01:00:13)
5. "I have no doubts. None. No doubts whatsoever. I'm absolutely certain it was an extraterrestrial object." (01:02:56)

Detailed Summary

Varginha UFO Incident: Detailed Summary of the 1996 Brazil Encounter

Overview and Case Significance

The 1996 Varginha incident—often called "Brazil's Roswell"—represents one of the most extensively documented UFO encounters in modern history, featuring multiple eyewitness accounts, physical debris, medical testimony, and a documented military cover-up. Researcher James Fox spent 15 years investigating the case, assembling testimony from 12-15 witnesses who saw the craft and up to 5 who saw an alien body.

• The craft resembled a Tic Tac, similar to the famous Nimitz incident in 2004
• US Air Force involvement was confirmed as the craft landed without Brazilian government authorization
• The documentary Moment of Contact features key eyewitness accounts including Doza and Dr. Venturelli
• Jesse and podcast hosts describe the case as surpassing any reasonable threshold of doubt due to overwhelming witnesses and physical evidence
• James Fox traveled to Brazil three times in the past year alone for ongoing investigation

Carlos Doza's Eyewitness Account

Carlos Doza, a geography teacher and ultralight pilot, woke at approximately 5:15 AM and witnessed a metallic craft crashing in an open field, providing one of the most detailed civilian accounts of the incident. His testimony describes the craft's characteristics, the immediate aftermath, and his subsequent interaction with military forces and Men in Black.

• The craft was the size of a minibus or school bus with a metallic exterior and bluish interior
• The rear of the craft was completely destroyed while the front slid into a tree burnt to a crisp
• Doza noted an ammonia smell mixed with rotten eggs at the crash site—distinctly different from aircraft fuel
• He arrived approximately 3-4 minutes after the crash and observed only a silhouette inside the half-blown-open craft
• His eyes were burning from the odor during the observation
• He picked up a piece of debris described as aluminum foil-like but extremely light before soldiers forced him to drop it

Memory Metal and Material Evidence

Multiple witnesses described the craft's material as aluminum foil-like in texture but extremely light, comparable to kitchen foil. Crucially, the material demonstrated properties consistent with shape-memory alloy similar to material recovered at Roswell, returning to its original shape after being crumpled.

• Another witness, Mr. Kah dea, also described the memory-metal property of the debris
• The material was collected as evidence by military forces at the scene
• Doza confirmed the material's shape-memory characteristic, noting it returned to original form after being crumpled
• This property is consistent with advanced aerospace materials and suggests non-human engineering

Military Response and Cover-Up

Within approximately two minutes of Doza reaching the crash site, a military convoy arrived consisting of a jeep with officers, an ambulance, and two tarp-covered army trucks. Soldiers formed a V formation to secure the perimeter, with one soldier approximately 2 meters tall threatening witnesses at gunpoint.

• A farmer near the site reported his entire house shook at 5:00 AM and cattle became agitated
• Armed soldiers told residents to stay inside following the incident
• The crash occurred near the ESA (military sergeant school in Brazil)
• A mechanic who worked on ESA trucks performed extensive suspension repairs afterward, indicating military vehicles had been speeding to reach the scene
• A police chief counted 12-15 witnesses to various aspects of the incident
• James Fox spoke to approximately 12 different people in Varginha within one hour, documenting excessive military activity and military trucks
• The crash site remains a fenced-off vacant lot with ongoing visitations 26 years later

Men in Black Encounter

Within 10-20 minutes of Doza's sighting, two men in black suits and white shirts arrived at a gas station in a black Opala car with no license plate, knowing his name and personal details—information that would have been effectively impossible to obtain in 1996 Brazil before widespread internet access.

• They warned him: "You didn't see anything. You don't know anything. If you open your mouth, you're going to have serious problems"
• In 1996 Brazil, 99.99% of the population had landline rotary phones, making rapid information gathering implausible
• Doza hypothesized they traced his car license plate via radio communication with military forces
• The Men in Black represented an organized response mechanism suggesting government-level coordination

Dr. Italo Venturelli's Hospital Encounter

Dr. Italo Venturelli, a neurosurgeon who had been working in Varginha since 1983, was on duty in the ICU at Hospital Regional on the night of the incident. He had just operated on a child named Eric with Crouzon syndrome and craniostenosis before his colleague Marcos Vinicius called him to view an alien entity.

• Dr. Venturelli estimates he spent three to four minutes face-to-face with the being at approximately one meter distance
• He was wearing street clothes at the time of the encounter
• He observed no blood, blood stains, or smell during the encounter
• The being was not bleeding, not in pain, breathing normally, and showed no suffering
• Dr. Venturelli stated he has been working with human patients for 46 years and can distinguish human from non-human anatomy
• He described the entity as resembling a seven-year-old child with a skull shaped like a drop, lilac-colored eyes, and white skin
• One hand was inside and one outside a surgical drape
• Hospital Regional displays a plaque reading: "This is the path of the ET. Came here to this hospital on January 20th, 1996"

The Extraterrestrial Being's Physical Description

Multiple medical witnesses provided detailed descriptions of the entity's anatomy, distinguishing it clearly from human physiology while noting its peaceful demeanor and apparent consciousness during the encounter. The being demonstrated human-like features in some areas while displaying distinctly non-human characteristics in others.

• The being was approximately the size of a 7-year-old child
• It had human-like arms and chest but a teardrop-shaped skull
• Lilac eyes were described as resembling Elizabeth Taylor's famous violet eyes
• It possessed an opposable thumb with only three fingers
• No discernible gender, no nipples, no hair or fur were observed
• The entity was completely odorless despite other witnesses reporting ammonia or sulfur-like smells from the craft crash
• The being showed a calm, peaceful gaze described as "angelic" with a "beautiful gaze" that was paternal, compassionate, and understanding
• It was not restrained and was free to move, kept looking toward the window as if to locate its surroundings and possibly leave

Medical Procedure and Hospital Protocol

The surgical procedure performed on the extraterrestrial being was described as extremely simple—just stitches—with only basic materials (clamp, forceps, needle holder) present, nothing like the microscopes and extensive supplies required for major neurosurgery. The improvisation and unplanned nature of the procedure reflected the extraordinary circumstances facing medical staff.

• The procedure used only basic materials, nothing like major neurosurgery requires
• Dr. Venturelli was called by colleague Marcos Vinicius to verify the being's condition after the procedure
• No cell phone contact was possible to learn details beforehand
• The procedure was improvised and unplanned given the unprecedented nature of the situation
• Multiple hospital staff witnessed the being, including nurses and a radiology technician who reported seeing a closed box

Multiple Witnesses and Witness Harassment

Approximately 12-15 total witnesses observed various aspects of the incident, including the three girls (now adult women) who saw the creature in daylight, a police officer who filed a report about seeing a dead extraterrestrial being, and other staff who saw a living one. The culture of medical discretion prevented open discussion, with doctors fearing loss of medical licenses and ethics committee investigations.

• After giving an interview to ufologist Kuvo nine months after the event, Doza's life "turned into hell"
• He experienced phone tapping, company audits, and surveillance by unmarked cars
• At his wife's urging, he changed his phone number, moved into his deceased father's house, and essentially erased his trail
• He kept his story secret from his family and daughters to protect them from ridicule and bullying
• Doza emphasized he has never made a single cent from his story and refused payment from researchers
• The three key witnesses to the alien body remain in the same city, have been bullied and criticized, and couldn't get their passports approved because they lack stable jobs
• They have been promised things and persuaded to change their stories
• Doctors who treated a former president in Brazil were themselves investigated by the justice system, illustrating monitored freedom in the country

Soldier Marco Sharesi's Death and Autopsy

Soldier Marco Sharesi of the Minas Gerais state military police died in January 1996, approximately 12-14 days after handling the extraterrestrial being. He complained of back pain to 3-4 doctors and was treated with antibiotics and anti-inflammatory drugs before developing septicemia. His family insists he had direct contact with an extraterrestrial and repeatedly described a greasy, oily substance on the entity's body.

• Marco was young and physically strong yet died in under 10 days despite antibiotic treatment that physicians said should have saved his life
• The autopsy at the Forensic Medical Institute (IML) revealed only one incision wound from a drainage procedure for a skin infection in the left armpit area
• Dr. Antonio Janini, described as a local "godfather of medical science" with thousands of similar analyses, speculated that a puncture wound from the ET's nail may have introduced the lethal infection
• He stated he had never seen any bacteria behave in such a way before or since
• Dr. Cesario described the bacterium as representing a "novel evolution" never previously observed on Earth
• A military police commander launched an excessive investigation (described as a "witch hunt") targeting a medical attendant for alleged professional error
• The attendant was ultimately fully acquitted with no professional error confirmed
• The autopsy report was released approximately 20 days after the autopsy

The Bacterial Infection Analysis

The pathogen was identified as an extremely rare strain of staphylococcus—present on Earth but almost never lethal to healthy humans—yet in this case exhibited extremely high virulence and rapid, progressive pulmonary complications. Dr. Eel described the bacteria as appearing genetically engineered, raising questions about extraterrestrial origins or contamination.

• The bacteria found was not common in Brazil, was extremely virulent and progressive, and could potentially be of extraterrestrial origin
• Dr. Janini speculated the infection may have been introduced through a puncture wound from the ET's nail
• The first hypothesis for Dr. Foratu is secondary effect of surgery, but contamination from extraterrestrial contact should not be ruled out as a second hypothesis
• Dr. Janini suggested exhuming Marco Sharesi's remains approximately one year ago to study the bacteria's DNA and virulence further
• The bacteria represented a novel evolution never previously observed on Earth

Documentary Investigation and Site Disturbance

James Fox's documentary "Moment of Contact" featured multiple witnesses including Doza and Dr. Venturelli, providing unprecedented documentation of the incident. A disturbing revelation emerged: for 26 years after the incident, nothing was removed from the crash site—but after the documentary aired, more than 30 meters of earth was excavated and soybeans were planted.

• Doza argued the cost of removing that amount of earth to plant soybeans made no economic sense
• Drone flyovers 26 years later still showed visible differences in the soil from the air
• A quasi-professional metal detector operator said the entire area had been upturned and bulldozed
• The operator estimated several months would be needed for a proper survey
• JJ Bonitez collected soil to test for radioactive material
• The excavation activity raised questions about who is still monitoring and potentially tampering with the evidence 26 years later

The Missing Video Evidence

Marcos Vinicius filmed the incident with a large 1990s shoulder-mounted TV-style camera because no small tapes, cell phones, or internet existed at that time. The video was approximately 1.5-2 minutes long and was shown to family, friends, and fellow doctors at his home.

• Producer James Fox offered $1 million to Marcos Vinicius's wife if she had the original video
• James searched Marcos's house and took his computer to a warehouse in São Paulo but did not find the video
• Many people have tried to sell fake videos to James with well-made lighting and props
• Marcos's watches (Brightling, Omega) were stolen during a robbery, and the video may be in a cabinet where he stored watches and CDs
• The original footage remains missing despite extensive search efforts and significant financial incentive

Hypnotic Regression and Mental Contact

Carlos Doza underwent hypnotic regression performed by a specialist known as Saga at the premiere of James Fox's documentary in Sorokaba, São Paulo. The regression recording showed Carlos claimed to have had mental contact with the creature during the incident, providing insight into the being's communication and intent.

• The being reportedly communicated: "Calm down. Everything is fine. Go away. It's dangerous for you here. We just want to thank you for your concern"
• The beings reportedly told him he would never remember the encounter, that it would be dangerous, and they would ensure he wouldn't remember
• Carlos described the experience as horrible and traumatic, with his chest visibly heaving on the recording
• He refused to undergo a second regression after the initial session

Zoo Animal Deaths and Contamination Theory

Multiple animals at the Varginha zoo died following apparent contact with the extraterrestrial being. The zoo's zoologist stated the cause of death was entirely unknown and unlike anything he had ever encountered, representing another unexplained aspect of the incident.

• One theory holds that the ET became contaminated by zoo animal bacteria, which then infected the soldier upon the being's capture
• This contamination chain suggests the being may have been vulnerable to terrestrial pathogens despite its apparent resilience
• The zoologist's inability to explain the deaths indicates a biological anomaly beyond normal veterinary understanding

Dr. Armando's Scientific Perspective

Dr. Armando served as municipal health secretary during the COVID-19 pandemic and has professional expertise in public health, occupational medicine, and forensic medicine. He approaches the Varginha case purely through a scientific and public health lens, representing a medical professional's reasoned analysis of the incident.

• His father was a pharmacist and his mother a primary school teacher
• He remains a practicing Christian and states the Varginha encounter did not alter his faith or worldview
• He praised James Fox's investigative work and formally invited Dr. Hal (physicist) and Jesse to visit Varginha to continue joint investigations
• He called on the CIA and NASA to share their knowledge, technology, and diagnostic capabilities for rigorous examination of the bacteria and spacecraft residue
• He suggested soil samples to detect any remaining macro particles
• James recommended the use of a geologist to identify runoff areas where debris would most likely have accumulated

Dr. Duttoin's Medical Authority

Dr. Duttoin, a university professor, pathologist, and forensic doctor, arrived in Varginha roughly 45-50 years ago and is now nearly 90 years old. He could not attend in person due to health but sent a signed, authenticated document about the case, lending institutional credibility to the investigation.

• His diagnostic and laboratory pathology institute serves approximately 90% of patients through Brazil's public health system (SUS)
• The institute covers more than 100 cities in the region
• This serves as evidence of his stature and trustworthiness in the medical community
• His documented involvement adds forensic credibility to witness accounts

International Significance and Conclusions

The Varginha case attracts interest from the United States, Japan, Brazil, China, and Russia, representing a potential paradigm-shifting event with global implications. The convergence of physical evidence, medical testimony, and multiple witnesses creates a compelling case requiring serious scientific examination.

• Doza stated his current worldview is that extraterrestrial life is no longer in question for him—the real question is who they are and what their intentions are
• He believes humans may be a biological experiment created by evolved entities
• Dr. Venturelli similarly stated that seeing the being changed him personally and that "there are more wonders beyond Earth than people realize"
• Investigators and witnesses alike call for formal scientific follow-up, including potential exhumation of Marco Sharesi
• Greater international institutional support is needed for the ongoing inquiry
• The case raises fundamental questions about humanity's place in the universe and the nature of consciousness itself

Full Transcript

Show transcript

There was an arm, a forearm, a hand, and
three fingers here.
>> Today's episode of American Alchemy is
truly historic. We interview three of
the most important UFO witnesses alive
today. You mentioned that the being
almost seemed to have control of the
room. What did you mean by that?
>> The feeling was that he understood what
was happening. He wasn't afraid. He was
highly intelligent. at least more than I
was.
>> A neurosurgeon who was face tof face
with an extraterrestrial being for three
to four minutes while it was recovering
in a hospital bed.
A pilot and UFO crash witness who held
pieces of a UFO in his hands.
Finally, we interview a lead doctor who
did the autopsy on a soldier that was
likely wounded by an alien being.
and you won't believe what they found in
this autopsy.
You might be telling yourself at this
point, all of this sounds insane and
beyond belief. And then you realize how
many witnesses on record we have from
this case. James, how many witnesses do
you think you've spoken to total? And a
witness is anybody who's seen a ship or
an alien body.
>> Ship maybe 12 to 15. And then the alien
body, I think it's up to five.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> It's pretty amazing. It is literally a
modern Roswell but in Brazil in 1996. In
fact, the UFO material held by one of
our guests today, Carlos Dosoza, sounds
exactly like the crash material at
Roswell. Light, tinfoily, and when he
bent it, it would immediately go back
into its original shape, like some sort
of memory metal. The UFO also looked
exactly like a tic tac, similar to the
famous Nimttz incident in 2004 from
Commander David Fraver. Also, like many
American UFO crashes, we have Air Force
and CIA involvement here.
>> How does he know that the Americans were
involved?
>> Because they landed without the
authorization of the Brazilian
government. It was a secret mission and
it was a US Air Force plane.
>> This event is an open secret in the
Brazilian city of Virginia where it
occurred. Witnesses of the UFO and the
beings that emerged from it range from
the local chief of police to this lead
neurosurgeon we're interviewing today to
nurses to everyday farmers. The former
mayor even admits it happened. In fact,
the city constructed a large model UFO
statue to commemorate the remarkable
event. And now, thanks to the tireless
and intrepid reporting of my friend and
UFO investigator James Fox over the last
15 years, you basically have a complete
chain of events with human onrecord
witnesses assembled throughout. You've
mentioned multiple times that there is a
video of him essentially performing
surgery on this alien. If you had to
guess, do you think that the tape is
lying around in private civilian hands?
You think it's in his house still? Yes,
I believe so.
>> Many of these witnesses needed to
beounded over decades by local UFO
researchers just to come forward, and
none of them have made a penny off their
testimony.
We go over some wild, never-before-heard
details. There's an overwhelming amount
of evidence here. At the end of the day,
all of these testimonies should be a
rallying cry to keep turning this case
over and keep gathering more hard
evidence as James Fox has done in his
powerful Moment of Contact
documentaries.
Without further ado, I want you to sit
back, relax, and prepare to have your
mind absolutely blown with the
unprecedented testimony of some of the
most important UFO witnesses in
modern-day history. Dr. Italo
Ventterelli, Dr. Armando Fortonado and
Carlos Doza.
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sponsoring this episode.
Carlos Doza, thank you so much for being
here. It's an absolute honor to have
you. I feel like I know you somewhat
from James Fox's amazing documentation
of your experience in Moment of Contact.
I want you to take us back to the day
you had this experience with the UFO
and just give me as much detail as you
possibly can about what happened moment
by moment
in 1996.
I was doing a course to become an
ultralight pilot
and on my graduation the colleagues
invited us to go to the farm of one of
their grandfathers to have a barbecue,
have a good time, spend time together,
you know, in between friends.
So I told them, look, I'm going to M and
it was going to be in which is a city
after Vah, which is a closer city. I
left at night at a small company. So I
left and went toward Vah and halfway
along the way, I stopped and slept a bit
to get some rest. It was night time. So
the next day I would wake up early and
continue the journey uh better rested.
Well on that day I woke up. I left
early. I think around 5 5:15 in the
morning very early and I started driving
and left. When I was getting close to
Vajian
what happened?
I saw
then I stopped and then I stopped and
looked ahead and I saw an object
pass over the road and I noticed that
the object was having problems. It was
smoking.
From my point of view at first glance, I
never never imagined that it was some
sort of flying object, a ship. I thought
it might have been a a blimp.
In Brazil during that time, 96, it was
very common
to have blimps flying over the stadiums
to film the football games.
So, for me, it was a blimp. That's all.
Just letting you know that I didn't see
and immediately think, "Oh, that's a
UFO."
I thought it was just a plain old blimp.
But I could see that there were
problems. And I could see that when it
changed angles, there was a tear in the
side and a lot of smoke coming out of
that tear. In other words, I thought,
"Oh, maybe they hit something, a
surface, a tower, maybe a tree, a hill,
and it ripped the side of it, and
they're losing altitude. They're
falling."
But as every good pilot and human being
for that matter, you don't think of
anything else. The first thing that
comes to mind is hang on, there are
people in there.
They will need help because only pilots
understand what an aircraft crash is.
In that exact moment, that's what went
through my mind. There are people in
there. They're going to need help. I'm
going to them to help them.
and see what's going on and see if I can
come to their aid. Immediately, I got
into my vehicle, which was a small
pickup truck, and follow the aircraft.
So, what happened was it simply appeared
to begin to lose altitude. Then all of a
sudden, it seemed to gain power and
started rising again. And I thought,
well,
the pilot or whoever's piloting this
craft, this blimp, as I thought it was,
knows what they're doing because there's
a city ahead of them. And it appeared to
not want to fall on the city. And so it
was increasing altitude. And so I
thought, wow, they're really clever and
trying to avoid a bigger accident.
So it crossed over again. So once again
it came, started rising,
crossed again over the highway and went
toward an open field.
And following it, I looked up
and I could see the object. All of a
sudden,
lose altitude totally
and fall.
And at that time I accelerated as much
as I could and entered in the very first
possible roadway to go to where I
believed the blimp had fallen.
>> Please.
>> All right, let's go.
As soon as I came up to the dirt road,
I immediately observed the fallen
object.
It crashed.
It seemed to have bounced. The rear end
of the craft, which was completely
destroyed. There were pieces everywhere.
And the front of it, which was
practically half of it, slid further and
ran into a tree. That's literally what
it did. It ran into a tree.
hit the tree and stopped. And this rear
part,
>> mainly wreckage.
And from inside the car, I was
terrified. I thought, "My god, there
must be dead people in there." To me, it
was a blimp. It wasn't.
I never thought it was a spacecraft or a
UFO or extraterrestrial. No way.
I just thought it was a flying derage
bowl.
And I came down terrified and went
toward it.
The very first thing that I observed and
that really caught my attention was the
smell. Because at that moment, what I
was expecting was the smell of diesel
fuel or kerosene or aircraft fuel. It's
normally a very strong smell. And on the
contrary, the smell that I felt at the
crash site felt like ammonia.
It was very strong. I don't know what
was the fuel or the substance that was
there, but it was a very strong smell,
something different, and it began to
burn my eyes. So, I brought my shirt up
over my eyes because of the sting
protect my nose. And immediately,
it couldn't have been more than two
minutes later
coming toward my car was a military
convoy.
That convoy had a front truck
with a jeep and you could see that there
were officers, an ambulance and two
other trucks, these tarp covered trucks
from the army and they stopped in front
of my vehicle.
A bunch of soldiers got out of the back
and they didn't appear to get out
randomly.
They formed a V formation to close off
the perimeter.
And from the front truck,
there were officers and soldiers that
got out from that jeep.
And one of the officers said, "Look over
there. Send him away. You can't be
here." He shouted. And a soldier, huge,
really strong, probably 2 m tall, really
strong, came running, shouting, "Get out
of here. Get out of here." And just at
that time, I could see quite a few
pieces of debris on the ground. And I
picked them up and it was kind of
curved. And then I was surprised to see
how light it was.
You know, aluminum foil that you use to
wrap up chicken to roast that you use
normally in the kitchen. It was that
kind of weight. It didn't weigh anything
at all.
And I thought, well, this is strange.
>> All right. So, I said, I'll keep it. And
so, I crunched it up. And so, I made
this kind of movement, you know, to put
it in my pocket.
And what happened was this foil or this
sheet regained its shape.
So, I thought,
what is this?
I was completely floored at that moment.
And then that soldier arrived, took his
rifle and started hitting me in the
chest and saying, "Get out of here." And
I started to question him, saying, "No,
there are people there who are going to
need help. I'm going to help them. I'm a
pilot, man. I know what they're going
through.
I want to help them." And he said, "No,
get out of here."
And I confronted him and I said, "No,
I'm going to stay." He took a step back,
raised his gun, cocked it, and pointed
it at my head,
pointing at my head right here, and said
to me,
"I'm not asking. I'm giving you an
order. If you don't leave, I'm going to
blow your brains out." Then I started
shaking all over.
I thought, "My god, well, no, no, no,
no, no, no. All right, I'm sorry. I'll
leave." He hit my hand and threw the
piece of debris out of my hand.
I went back to my car, steered it out,
and I was still shaking all over because
I wasn't understanding at all what was
happening.
I did a U-turn on that small road and
went back to the main highway. And I was
in such a state where I thought, I can't
fly like this because in order to fly
any aircraft, any vehicle, you have to
be at peace with yourself. especially
when your life's at stake.
So, you simply can't be all, "Oh, I'll
fly no matter what." That's not how it
works. You have to be centered. And
there was no way in the state that I was
in. So, I thought, I'll go back,
have some coffee, you know,
so I can relax a bit. At that moment,
when I was going back,
the following thought came to mind.
Look, this is probably a government
experiment because I didn't think it was
a a spacecraft or an extraterrestrial
object.
To me, it was a government experiment
that I shouldn't have seen. In other
words, I was in the wrong place at the
wrong time, saw what I shouldn't, and
they sent me away. To me, that was it.
Period.
I turned around, went to get some
coffee, and when I stopped, because in
Brazil, every gas station,
they have
places where you can have coffee,
something to eat, and they're always at
the side of the road. I went in, told
the young man, "Could you please get me
a coffee?" And he said, "What's wrong,
mister? You're shaking." I caught my
breath and saw a black car. It's what at
the time in Brazil we would call an
opala was popular in Brazil. It pulled
up
two people in black suits and white
shirts. One of them with dark
sunglasses. One of them took them off,
looked at me and said, "Are you Mr. Kah
dea residing in such place? Your wife's
name is such and such. This is your
company's name. I looked at him and I
said, "What are you crazy? Who are you
to interrogate me? Are you nuts?" He
pointed a finger straight in my face and
said, "Just a word of advice. You didn't
see anything. You don't know anything.
If you open your mouth to anyone about
this, you're going to have serious
problems for the rest of your life. So,
leave. Get out of here and keep quiet."
I leaned on the counter with no idea
what was going on. No idea whatsoever.
The young man behind the counter served
me my coffee and he said, "Mister, I
know some people in the highway police.
They can't talk to you that way." So, he
gave me a little napkin and a pen and
said, "Write down the license plate and
I'll pass it on to them to discover who
these people are. They can't talk to you
that way." So, I got the napkin, the
pen, and went to the door, and the car
was leaving. And whoever said there was
a license plate, the car didn't have
one. At that moment, my blood pressure
just dropped. Really, it just dropped
completely. I was like, "My god."
So, then I got back into the car,
thanked the young man, and thought to
myself, "I'm going home. I'm going home
because I'm in no condition to do
anything." I was still shaking
completely, just wouldn't stop shaking,
breathing heavily, trying to process in
my mind what was going on.
>> So got back in the car, drove to S.
Paul, got home and told my wife this,
this, and that happened. She said,
"Look, don't say anything about it. We
don't know what it is, and we're not
going to meddle with what we don't
know." Fine. A week passed, but it was
still on my mind. To me up to that point
that was a government experiment. It was
no longer
uh blimp. I was now a government
experiment I shouldn't have seen. I kept
my mouth shut
and after some time went by something
like eight or nine months maybe.
The case that became known as the Vahena
case showed up in the media
because the Vahia case came about a week
five or six days after this. When those
girls saw the creature,
they saw that being five or six days
after I saw the crash of the object in
the town of A. And I heard later on from
some specialists
that there's a river called the Huh. And
from the crash site to this river,
there's a distance of about 50 or 100 m.
And the river runs right behind the
place where these girls saw the
creature,
just behind it in the town.
I heard about it from the media.
You see, to me, it didn't make sense.
I'd never been there. It was my first
time. So, if I were to say, "Oh, I knew
it." I'd be lying.
And it was uh during that time, how do
you say a UFO researcher called Claudia,
he's already died, he went to the media
in Brazil and asked for the love of God
if anyone has any information to come
forward
because the question at the time was
where did these creatures come from? If
they're here, they came from somewhere.
Was there a crash? Did something happen?
They didn't just appear out of thin air.
They had to have come from somewhere.
Because you see, I'm not dumb. Come on.
It hit me.
I thought, "My god,
could it be?"
Of course. Of course it did.
So I picked up the phone and I called
Claudia Kovu. At that time there was
only landlines, you know, with rotary
dials. Especially in Brazil, this
technology was still very old. You had
to dial the numbers. It was analog. So I
called him and said, "Is this Mr.
Claud?" He said, "Yes." Speaking, "If
you'd like to know where the ship
crashed, I do." I'm pretty sure it's the
same ship. because I didn't have 100%
certainty. But I said, "Look, I'm almost
sure that this is where the craft fell."
All of a sudden, his tone completely
changed over the phone. Please, please
give me your address. I'll come over and
see you. He took down the address and in
15 to 20 minutes, he arrived at my
company, actually.
So he arrived there and I said, "Look,
let's talk somewhere far away from the
company at the corner of the street
close to my company because I wanted to
keep it separate."
And so we talked and he asked me how it
happened and I told him everything that
I told you right now. So he said to me,
"Look,
uh,
>> could you take me there?" And I said,
"Absolutely,
but of course I can't go during weekdays
because I have my company to look
after."
So we'll go on the weekend.
>> Okay.
>> So we went on the weekend. He came with
his car and we went to Vajim and along
the way I told him the whole story and I
took him to the crash site.
When we arrived there, he sat down and
was like,
"My god." You know why? The tree that I
told you about that the ship ran into
was burnt to a crisp.
And from the foot of the tree, there was
a kind of
a circle, an elongated circle.
All of the vegetation was growing around
it except for inside that circle. There
wasn't anything anything at all.
nothing.
And he said, "My god." And it was the
shape that I described to him. I told
him and he asked me, "What was the shape
like?" I said, "It was like a cigar, a
cylinder. Today, it's known as a tic
tac." The same shape. So people can
understand the actual shape of it.
People like to say, "Oh, there were
blinking lights." Not true. There were
no blinking lights. It was only that
kind of aluminum foil, very polished,
and the early morning sun. Its rays
would reflect on it and it would shine.
But there were no lights. Oh, there were
colorful blinking lights. No, there was
none of that. Only the shine of the
actual metal.
So he got down there and he took samples
of the tree,
took samples of the soil and took them
months later
and he recorded all of this using Super
Eight cameras, which were big cameras
that we had at the time.
Not entirely sure you had to use those
film rolls that you had to put in to
record. It was the latest thing in
technology at the time, at least for us.
So he simply collected those samples,
took them to the lab and some months
later he said that the lab results
indicated that the burning of the soil
in the tree was caused by chemical
products
and that they were unknown. In other
words, if I had any doubts, they were
gone then and there.
And something interesting that happened
that I always like to tell is that close
to the crash site, there were two
houses. One small simple place because
it's in the middle of a big valley and
James filmed it there. He filmed it and
showed it to us. I took him there. It's
a very small house. And the people that
lived there were your typical country
people, very modest. They lived there
with their family.
So Claudia said, "Look, if you saw it,
these people also saw it." And I said,
"Yeah, I agree. Let's go there." So he
went down. The owner of the house
started to shout with his sons and his
daughters, "Get inside. Get inside. Shut
up. Don't say anything."
They went in and he locked the house
completely from the inside. So we
knocked and we said, "Sir, can we please
talk to you?" But he kept shouting, "Go
away. I have nothing to say to you guys.
I already spoke to the army. Go away.
And since he wouldn't talk to us, we
thought,
I guess we'll have to leave then. We
can't force anything out of him.
Then we saw the house in front of it,
which was a farm right across from it,
filled with cattle.
And so we headed up there because it
wasn't plain or anything. First there
was a plain surface, then a huge
depression really deep, way down, right
next to the river.
So we went up and we knocked on the door
of this house, the one with the cattle,
and an old man came out. And we said,
"Good afternoon. How do you do?
Could you kindly tell me if you heard
anything unusual around here in
January?"
And the man said, "Of course I did. My
entire house shook and we said, "Wait a
minute. What?
>> I'm telling you, mister. It was 5:00
a.m. I came out to milk the cows."
>> And all the cattle started to get
agitated
>> and there was this large noise and my
entire house shook.
And we said, "My god."
We asked, "Do you know what it was?" He
said, "I don't know." Then a bunch of
armed soldiers came telling us to stay
inside, that there had been an accident
and that everything was okay and
everything was under control.
>> Oh, okay.
Recorded this. He has this recorded on
film
all this testimony
regarding the event.
Okay, so fine. We returned sometime
later and used a metal detector on the
place. They didn't find anything.
They said they found these small
springs, but all of these testimonies
were with this researcher called Claudu
and he died all of a sudden
and his daughter kept them. She's a
psychologist and she's uh how can I say
a very good person, very calm person,
easygoing,
thoughtful
and she herself says that her stepmother
destroyed all the material
and she still has a part of the
material. She kept it being his
daughter.
So she has that with her. So, if you ask
me what material does she have, I don't
know exactly. All she said was she had a
part of it. So, I thought, "Okay, that's
good." Ah, cool. It's proof. Great. I
was really happy.
And I was asked, "Why were you so
happy?"
>> Because I was tired of being called a
liar.
Because when I would tell this story
because you see when Claudia recorded
it, he leaked the recording at the time
to a TV network called Globu in Brazil.
And this network every time would
ridicule the case, took away any
credibility. Oh, it's nothing. And
everyone be them from Vaj or all over
Brazil started poking fun at the story
because of them.
You know, these people from the press
that seem that they've been bought off
to take credibility away from the story.
That's what they did. In other words,
when footage of me was leaked in the
media, specifically a show called
Fantas, which is pretty much watched all
over Brazil,
>> relatives, everyone started poking fun.
Hey, where's ET? Where's the alien?
Because if someone would say, I saw the
creature, that's a lie. I never saw the
creature. I saw the crash site. There
was no time to see if there was a
creature or anything. I didn't see
anyone
>> because I believe I arrived something
like three or four minutes after the
crash.
>> Just after it happened.
>> Oh, you didn't see a creature? No, I
didn't. I didn't. But you? No, it's not
true.
I just wanted to say that I too went
with Marco in 2013
and I knocked on every single door of
every house within a quarter or half a
mile of that crash site and we found one
farm hand in 2013. I have I have it on
video and I didn't use it to film for
whatever reason, but he said, "Yeah,
yeah, my boss was here and he heard a
boom, like a boom sound and he said it
on camera." Oh yeah, I know it was known
that was 2013. That would have been what
13 14 17 years after the incident.
>> But I I knocked on the small house and
they were new.
>> I knocked on any house that was was in
certain proximity and we got one farm
hand to say, "Yeah, you'd heard that
there was a big impact like boom at
really early in the morning.
>> How can how can we find this material
that might exist? Can you can you get
your hands on this material?" She did
say to me about four or five years ago
that her a lot of her father's archives
were in the hands of his ex or his
>> widow, I guess it would have been,
>> and that she was very guarded with some
of that material. I think she did get
she did get a lot. She I don't know
exactly what she can ask.
>> Do you think that she has the UFO
material, the aluminum foil like
material?
>> No, not aluminum foil. No, let me
explain. There's documentary footage
filmed by him. The aluminum sheet,
meaning those pieces of the craft, were
taken out of my hand by the military at
the moment of the crash. Okay,
that's one thing. Another thing is this
happened later. The evidence she has
from the soil, from people hearing
things,
was recorded by Claudia Kovu eight or
nine months later,
proving all of that. And what I
described ended up connecting everything
like putting the pieces together.
Everything the girls talked about,
everything people in the city were
saying because it all started there.
>> The first contact, the first moment
happened right there.
>> Who's this guy with the Super Eight
camera that went with you to take soil
samples and to look at the the burnt
tree? Who is that exactly? That's
>> Clauddio. Well, look, I know that
Claudia collected the material and sent
it to a lab. Now, if I told you exactly
where, I'd be lying because look, for me
at the time, it was simply the crash of
an object. I never had much awareness of
this kind of thing because I was never
really into it. I was always very
skeptical
about this type of phenomenon. You know,
I didn't really pay attention to it. In
fact, a well-known Brazilian researcher
who is a co-producer of Moment of
Contact named Muleo
told me something years later now around
2019, something like that in an informal
conversation with friends. He said to
me, "Kahos, do you realize you're one of
the few human beings who actually held a
piece of a non-aterrestrial object?
in your hand. And I said, "Huh?"
>> You're right. That's true.
>> I never thought about it that way.
>> I never ever gained anything from this.
And this is interesting because just to
uh continue the story I was telling to
um put everything in order, everything
that happened so you can understand the
whole picture.
When it came out in the media, everyone
started mocking me. Oh, the alien guy.
You saw the little alien. People laughed
at me. They lied. Because when someone
is an outsider, they don't have to
believe. But when it comes from family,
cousins, relatives, that hurts.
I was harassed a lot.
I was ridiculed.
>> Did you ever get a look at the inside of
the craft? The inside of the craft.
Because, you know, if if part of the
craft uh crashed on the ground and then
the rest of it, you know, kept going.
Did you ever see the inside or any of
the components?
>> No. No. What I saw, the only thing you
could see was half of the craft blown
open. You could see there was something
inside. Okay? Just a silhouette, kind of
a shadow. Because my eyes were like
this, you know, that strong burning
sensation. It was burning, stinging. If
I said, "Oh, I saw everything clearly
inside." That would be a lie. I couldn't
see it. If I said, "Oh, I saw the
instruments inside." No, I didn't. I
wasn't worried about instruments.
To me, it was a blimp.
I was worried about whether there were
people heard on the ground.
>> When you smell sulfur now or since then,
does it exactly match that smell or is
it a unique specific smell? You you say
ammonia and sulfur.
>> Yes. Yes. The smell the smell was
>> cuz I was expecting the smell of fuel
and it was a different smell. I don't
know what that smell was. If I said,
"Oh, it was from the creature." That
would be a lie. I don't know. I just
know the smell at the site. I don't know
if it was the craft's fuel or something
else. But it smelled like ammonia
mixed with rotten eggs. You mix those
two and put them right under your nose.
Yeah, it's not a good smell. It was
awful.
>> What was the exact color of the craft?
On the outside, it was metallic, and on
the inside, it looked kind of bluish, an
undefined color. I can't tell you, oh,
it was like this, nice and clear. You
could see everything. No, that'd be a
lie. I couldn't really see inside
because I was at a distance of maybe
from where I arrived from the rear part
to where it was leaning against the
tree, must have been about 100 to 150 m
away. So, there was no clarity,
especially with that smell. You know,
>> there was too much going on. I couldn't
say, "Oh, I'm going to look inside." No,
I couldn't. I just couldn't see it.
>> How big do you think the craft was?
>> Uh, the object was about the size of a
mini bus.
>> Like a high school bus.
>> Roughly the same size as a school bus.
>> Does do you have any idea as to whether
there was radiation or, you know,
anomalous electromagnetic activity
involved
>> at the time? No, I wasn't thinking that
at that moment. It wasn't that to me. At
that moment, to me, it was a blimp. That
was in trouble. So, radiation,
contamination,
that never crossed my mind. If I said it
did, I'd be lying. It doesn't cross your
mind because you don't expect something
like that.
>> It's different from seeing something and
thinking, "I'm seeing a UFO. It's going
to crash. Oh, radiation.
When you look at an object and think
it's a blimp, there are people inside.
It's going to crash and those people
will need help.
>> That's all you think about. You don't
think about radiation? I didn't think
about radiation at any moment. No, I
didn't think about it.
>> Did it feel like time was moving slower
in any way or did it feel like, you
know, you literally just thought this
was this kind of uh blimp or derigible
and it had it had, you know, crashed?
No, time felt normal. There was nothing
like lapses in time or anything like
that. No, everything unfolded normally
like regular time for me. It was normal.
I never felt any temporal distortion.
>> And this was the Brazilian army clearly
like you could make out that it was
definitely the army.
>> Yes, it was near the Eza. Okay. the army
sergeant school
in Brazil. Eza stands for
I didn't know that. Okay. In fact, the
ones who told me that were James and
people from the eupfology community that
this small road I mentioned leads
directly to the Eza.
So it would be let's say a shortcut they
used because to get to using the
official roads you have to take a long
way around. You go all the way around
like this and this road went like this
cut straight through. And I didn't know
that. They told me did you know this
road leads straight to the Eza? And I
said really?
>> Wow. I had no idea.
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I have a really interesting point that I
want to make quickly because I just
talked to allegedly the mechanic who
worked on the trucks
>> that this was the mechanic for the
trucks as a military base and he said
that he had to make all these extensive
repairs on the suspension at that time
because he was like they must have been
flying down pothole dirt roads because
they just did a lot of damage and he had
to make all these repairs. Wow. I
thought that was a really interesting
connection.
>> Well, I also think it's an interesting
connection that the, you know, Carlos is
saying that the material is lightweight,
but maybe it's, you know, a lot of
weight. You know, if you're putting a
school bus on your truck, you know, uh,
you know, that might have the suspension
might might break in.
>> I think it was more for them when they
were racing to get to the site
>> that they were flying down the dirt
roads because they got there within
minutes.
>> So, I it was all it's speculation,
right? But it's interesting that we had
that connection and we got to him
through the nurse that we met the night
we brought all the doctors together.
>> She was the one that was telling us was
there
>> I know is telling the truth. I know. And
we were like, "How do you know?" And she
was shaking. She goes, "Cuz I was
there."
>> Wow.
>> And then we went and met with her h at
her house and that her partner was the
mechanic for EZA Trucks. and he's the
one that told us all these reparations
had to be made, repairs had to be made
because he was assuming that they were
speeding down pothole dirt roads.
>> Just another little piece of the puzzle,
an interesting aspect of it.
>> Oh, very interesting.
>> And uh did did you hear independently
anything about the material being sort
of aluminum foil like or you know if you
crumple it up it goes back into its
original? Well, the only thing I heard
were people, firsthand witnesses that I
personally interviewed that said it was
cylindrical shaped like a school bus,
like a cigar, had no control services,
that kind of thing. And another
interesting aspect of it is Dr. Armando,
who did the autopsy on the deceased
military officer. He has two friends,
farmers that saw exactly what he saw
before it crashed. Just another little
piece that Yeah. The puzzle. There's
there's so many aspects of of this
story. Well, you also have uh farmers
documented in moment of contact. You
also have a guy who looked outside his
window.
>> Yes.
>> Looking at it. And then you you show the
entire flight path.
>> Yes.
>> And then I think what I love to be
honest about Carlos Doza's testimony
specifically
>> is you have this very dramatic part of
Moment of Contact where he's showing you
the site, the crash site.
>> And to me, if he were a liar, he would
have said, "Here it is." But he gets
there and he goes, "It wasn't here. In
fact, the landscape has changed." And he
goes, "I'm looking for this white house.
I swear it's a white house to white
house." And he took you for 2 hours.
>> Yeah. I thought this was the I was so
disappointed at the time. I was like,
"Oh my god, this is going horribly. How
could this guy not remember where the
spot was?" and and and then when he sees
the actual spot, not only do you see
different topology and vegetation, a
different color coloration of the ground
locally where he says the spot is, but
he starts crying and you it's this very
moving part of the movie where you say
aki aki and you you break down and u I
don't know I don't think you can fake
that. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's pretty I mean, you have to
ask yourself,
>> you know, why witnesses come forward.
He's not selling a book. He's not
selling a documentary. We chased him
down. We found him. Marco Leal found
him. Chased him down. And he finally
agreed to meet with me and then he
ultimately agrees. Screw it. Let's go
back to the since 1996. He had been
there since 1996. So, it' been 26 years
at the time.
>> Wow. You know, and I was like, man, if
this guy's lying, we don't need any more
Brad Pitts or Leonardo DiCaprio.
>> Exactly. And this remarkable encounter
you had at this sort of food stand
afterwards with this guy who's wearing a
suit, two guys wearing a suits and an
unmarked car.
He walks out.
A lot of people in the US like to talk
about this Men in Black phenomenon,
which are you could say they're the
first responders when it come to sort of
alien experiences.
Did they seem like they were human and
they were coming from intelligence
agencies or army affiliated or did they
almost seem paranormal or alien
themselves?
>> Uh, to me they looked normal. I mean,
the only thing that caught my attention
because I'm a short guy. I'm not tall,
you know, not big or muscular was that
they were very tall. Okay. They were
about the height of someone like James
or other tall, strong people. Very
military looking, you know, big,
muscular, ripped. I'd look up at them
and like, uh, okay. Yes, sir. They were
strong. Okay. But if someone says, oh,
they had weird eyes or something, that's
a lie. A lie. They were normal people.
Okay. Normal human beings. just strong
and very well-dressed. Only one of them
spoke. The other stood next to him, just
watching, wearing sunglasses, silent. He
didn't say a word. He finished speaking.
They turned around and left. Got into
the car and drove away. That was when I
went to look at the license plate, and
there wasn't one. That's when all of
this happened.
>> What's so remarkable to me is that they
know all these personal details about
you, your family, your address, hours
after you see this event. And we're
talking about 1996.
So this is really before the internet,
before large databases
in the US, let alone a small town in
Brazil. So have you speculated about
that and thought about h how did he get
that information?
>> Let's correct this story. It wasn't
hours later.
>> It was minutes later.
>> It was minutes.
>> 10, 15 minutes. 10, 15, 20 minutes at
most.
>> So how how does he know who you are?
This question you're asking me is the
same question I've been asking myself
for 30 years.
>> That same question I've asked myself for
30 years. How? Because that was one of
the things that terrified me the most.
So much so that when I went back to S.
Paulo and gave this interview to Kuvo,
this eupfologist nine months later, I
deeply regretted it because my life
turned into hell.
At the time in Brazil,
all phones were landlines,
cell phones didn't really exist. They
looked like war radios, you know, can
you read me over? That kind of thing.
The technology was very basic, just
starting out. So, 99.99%
of the population had landline phones.
They had the uh the rotary dials for you
to dial the numbers to make a call. And
I started to notice that every time I
picked up the phone to talk, there was
someone on the other end listening
>> because when what Claudia released aired
on Global when it leaked,
you could tell. I even changed phone
numbers and it didn't make a difference.
That really started to irritate me and
my company inspections started showing
up, audits, tax checks, things like
that. You know, when it feels like
someone is looking for something wrong
where there isn't anything.
>> In other words, looking for the smallest
excuse to shut you down. But those
inspections lasted days. Normally,
they'd last hours, but these went on for
days. And in front of my company,
unmarked cars would show up. Cars
without identification. Fake plates or
no plates at all. They just sit there
watching, watching. When you walk toward
them, they'd start the car and leave.
They never said anything. And no, I was
never threatened with death later.
That's a lie. Nobody ever threatened me
with death. But you could feel the
pressure.
>> Like they were saying, if you keep
talking, things are going to get ugly.
>> Something serious is going to happen to
you.
>> So you were kind of harassed and
intimidated. Do do you think about these
Men in Black characters 10 to 15 minutes
after is so remarkable to me? I take
back what I said. It's not only
unlikely, it's impossible that they can
know that information in that amount of
time. Do you ever think that maybe they
were not human themselves or they were
somehow protecting or in coordination
with the beings that came down in the
ship and crashed?
>> I believe I know just as much as you do.
Okay. It was just as surprising to me as
it is to you. And as I've already said
before, I asked myself this question
thousands of times. How did they get
that information so quickly? I came up
with a hypothesis that it might have
been through my car's license plate. At
the time, radios were very common,
right? And through radio communication,
they may have gathered some information
and started passing it along to those
people.
That could be it. Now, listen, I'm not
saying that's what happened. I'm just
raising a hypothesis because that was
also one of the things that scared me
the most at the time
because the crash itself to me had been
just a normal crash of an object. I saw
something that at that moment I thought
was a government experiment,
something I wasn't supposed to see. But
when they arrived so quickly, that's
when I thought,
my god, what is this?
That was truly frightening.
And the most interesting part is that
after all that process with Globe Wind,
everything being threatened and all
that, my wife turned to me and said,
"Look, shut up. Don't talk about this
anymore. Disappear." So, I disappeared.
I changed my phone number, moved houses.
Later, I returned to the same place
where I live today. But at the time, I
moved into my father's house. My father,
who has since passed away, had moved to
the beach. I moved into his house,
you see, and basically erased my trail.
And what's interesting is that the
current researcher, Max Leo,
one day I'm at home, calm and relaxed
when my phone rings.
Excuse me, is this Mr. Kahus?
And I thought, who wants to talk to him?
Burned once, afraid of cold water.
who wants to talk to him? No, please
don't hang up. My name is Mar Leo. I'm a
euphologist and I'd like to talk to you
about the Vahina case. The reason I
accepted
after 26 years,
actually 25 years, this first contact
happened about a year or two earlier
was because a week earlier,
I'd gone to a birthday party for one of
my wife's cousins. And I don't know
where they got it from,
but they brought this story back up and
started making fun of me. Some of them
had been drinking a bit too much. And
you know, drunk people have no filter.
They started crossing the line.
That made me really angry.
I told him, I said, "I'll prove it to
you." I even cursed at him at the time.
Used a swear word.
I said, "I'll prove to you that I'm not
a liar. I never lied. I never gained
anything from this, and I won't lie now.
One day, I'll prove it to you. I'll have
the proof." And then, sure enough,
Machus called me the following week.
>> So, I killed two birds with one stone. I
thought, "Okay, this is the moment to
speak up. Do you know James?" I didn't
even know James existed. I had no idea
who James was. Nothing. To be very
honest,
my life was fine just the way it was.
So,
so I uh went to the house of a friend of
makus in a neighborhood called Muri in
S. Pao inside a very small apartment. We
recorded the interview. I told my story.
He said, "Look, let's verify this." I
said, "Yeah, that's fine." Then he said,
"Wow, your account is exactly the same
as the one you gave 25 years ago.
Identical. Not a single detail has
changed." I said, "Guys, I'm just
telling you what I saw. I don't need to
lie." All right. Okay. Thank you. When
we finished recording, he tried to give
me some money. I told him, "No, thank
you. I don't want it." No, I really
don't want it. I'm not here for money. I
don't need it.
>> Seriously, I don't need it. I said, "Do
me a favor. Just one thing. Take that
money and donate it to a charity that
needs it
>> cuz I don't need to live off this."
>> You You have my word.
Okay.
>> So I told him go donate it.
>> He said but I said donate it. He said
all right.
>> So after that I turned my back about a
year later. He told me that there was a
filmmaker
a well-known American documentary
filmmaker who was coming to Brazil and
wanted to meet me. He said his name was
James Fox. I asked who is James Fox? He
said, "In the United States. He's very
wellknown. You don't know him?" I said,
"Sorry, man, but I honestly have no
idea."
Then he James asked me if I would agree
to tell my story
in the documentary. I said, "All right."
And then, but I made it clear. I don't
want to earn anything. I never wanted to
make money from this story. I never made
a single scent from it. Nothing. Because
I believe the truth has to be told,
spoken as truth. You shouldn't take
advantage of others.
It's absurd when people have a story and
exploit it, charging appearance fees and
things like that. I mean, sorry for the
word,
but that's bad character. people who
take advantage of others.
In any situation, you have to be an
honest, upright person with integrity.
One of the things I admire most about
James today after getting to know him,
and I even say he's like a brother to
me. I have a special affection for him,
is his posture, the kind of human being
he is. He's an upright person, someone I
truly admire as a human being because
he's honest in what he says. He only
seeks the truth. I've never seen him
hide a lie. He's the kind of guy that if
you're lying, he'll tell you straight to
your face, "Look, man, this story
doesn't add up. This is a lie." He'll
say it.
>> What does your family think now? They
were so skeptical. You know, just five,
six years ago, they were making fun of
you at this party. Now that you've been
documented thoroughly by James Fox and
two Moment of Contact movies, what do
they say to you now?
>> What's interesting is that my own
brother, he's American. He's a US
citizen. He's married to an American
woman, has American children, and has
lived here for over 30 years.
Okay. And when he found out, he said,
"Man, you never told me anything." I
told him, "This is my story. Nobody
needs to know cuz being humiliated,
being called, "Oh, you're the brother of
the guy who saw the alien. Did you see
the little alien, too?" I didn't want
that kind of ridicule for him or for my
family. So, I kept it to myself. That's
why at that moment when I took James to
the crash site, for me it was like
imagine a damn bursting
a mix of emotions.
All those years with everything trapped
inside you, unable to talk about it, not
telling anyone, not even family, always
hiding.
and you think, "Damn, am I going to have
to humiliate myself all over again? Am I
going to go through everything I went
through back then? I didn't want that
for my family, especially not my
family." Because when you truly love
someone, you don't want anything bad to
happen to them at all. That's why with
my older daughter and my younger
daughter, I always hid many things from
them so they wouldn't suffer bullying at
school.
kids making fun of this kind of thing.
>> Like I always say,
hit me, hurt me, even kill me if you
have to, but don't mess with the people
I love. They're not to blame. If I made
some mistake, take it out on me, not on
them. Protect them.
>> How How were you emotionally affected
after the original experience and then
the sort of Men in Black experience and
then you're getting harassed? You have
to start to think in your head there's
something and then all of a sudden you
you you get corroboration that these
three you know girls see a being five
six days later in town you make this
connection that this might not be from
here it might be ET. It might be a
non-human entity. Um as soon as you
start to make that connection
how does that impact you emotionally and
as far as your worldview? After
what happened for me,
when everything came together, when
everything clicked, that's when I truly
realized what had happened and what
hadn't. It changed a lot inside me.
Truly
why?
Because the idea that we are alone in
the universe was never hard for me to
accept in billions, zillions of planets.
For us to be the only ones with life
would be like looking at your own belly
button and saying, "I'm the only being
that exists on planet Earth." In other
words, that's impossible.
Our universe is enormous. Advanced
intelligences exist
for me today. The question is no longer
whether extraterrestrial life exists.
That question is minimal.
The real question is
who are they and what are their
intentions? That's the big question.
What do you think?
>> I have one contribution. When you're
ready, go ahead.
>> I firmly believe, okay, that uh
>> I don't want to go on too long, but I
believe we are a biological experiment
created by evolved entities. Putting
religions aside, everything aside, I
don't want conflict with any religion
because I believe in all religions and
at the same time, I believe in none. I
believe in the essence of religions, not
in church labels or institutions. Makes
sense. Um, his brother lived not far
from where I am. I think in New York or
New Jersey or something. And so I said,
"Hey man, your door's open. I'd love to
have you out there. You can some stay
with me, put you up in my barn. You can
watch the editing process. Marco Le was
there." And so he took us up on it and
we invited him to stay with us for a
couple of weeks, which he did. And we
went hiking and went out to eat. We had
a lovely time. We were working every day
as well. And in the edit room, I was
going through the interview with
Military X at the time. Military X
wasn't disguised when he was looking at
it and uh Militrax, I asked Militrax
some question and he's like he's like
everything that happened in Argia
started at my farm and he he watched
that and he had tears pouring down his
face cuz he was just like this weight
off his shoulders.
Yeah. And I got to witness that as he
saw it. Like it was like I've been
telling you you can look like I've been
telling not like it.
>> Well, it sounds like this has been a a
process of constant vindication over
time because you see this thing, you
think it's some sort of, you know,
aircraft or blimp and then you have this
weird foil, aluminum foil like material.
Then you have this kind of very bizarre
Men in Black experience where they seem
to know all your personal details. Then
you hear about the girls seeing the
being in town. Then you have, you know,
military uh ex, you know, this witness,
key witness involved in the transport of
the being, talking about how, you know,
it all started around Myini Farm, which
is where you saw the crash. And then you
have all these tests being done on the
local soil and on the, you know, the the
tree and stuff. And so data point after
data point after data point continues to
corroborate your initial experience.
Has there been anything that's come out
that has made you doubt the experience?
>> No. Nothing at all. Today, ever since
everything clicked for me, I have no
doubts. None. No doubts whatsoever. I'm
absolutely certain it was an
extraterrestrial object. I saw the
crash. I witnessed it. And I say this, I
swear it on a Bible. I swear it on
anything you want. If I'm lying, I'll do
whatever you want with whoever you want.
I swear to it.
>> And your testimony today, your testimony
a few years ago with James, and your
testimony, you know, at this point, 30
years ago,
pretty much the same every single time.
Yes, because it's the truth. I can't I
can't invent something I didn't see. I'm
telling what I saw. And that doesn't
change. If you witness a fact today,
that same fact will still be the same
100 years from now. It doesn't change.
And one of the things that caught my
attention the most in all of this
happened right after James' first
documentary
aired.
Maybe later he can even confirm this.
>> The crash site went 26 years without
anyone touching it just as I saw the
crash. James even commented that the
vegetation grew differently. The tree
was still there burned completely burned
just as it had been and the vegetation
in the burned area clearly showed that
the soil was different. You know, and
here's what's interesting. When the
documentary came out,
a person from Europe, a businessman,
called me and said he wanted to meet me
and was curious to visit the site and
that he would pay me. I said the same
thing as always. Look, I don't want to
make any money. Take that money and
donate it. If you want to go, I'll take
you. No problem. I've got time. Just pay
for my gas so I can get there. It's
another state.
You cover the hotel, those things. Just
pay my food and gas and that's it. I'll
take you there and show you.
When I got there with this man, we met
up in Vajin and he said, "Shall we go
there? Let's go." Let me tell you, I was
shocked. I sat down.
>> I didn't know whether to cry, laugh, or
panic.
I even made a remark to James. James
went there shortly after that. They had
done land grading
literally.
There must have been around seven or
eight meters of earth piled there before
it was almost completely flat. Yeah,
James was there. They said, "We're going
to plant soybeans here." And they
planted soybeans.
What they spent to remove that amount of
earth
just to plant soybeans makes no sense.
They would have to plant soy there for a
thousand years just to make a profit.
Now listen, for me, me personally, what
I believe
that happened
at the time of the crash, someone must
have gone to them and said, "Get rid of
all this."
And they didn't. Like a typical
Brazilian response. No, do it later.
It's fine. That thing we call the
Brazilian way.
>> It's terrible. We always leave things
for later until the very last moment.
That's one of our traits.
In this case, I'm grateful for the
little Brazilian way because uh maybe
that means we can get more of a smoking
gun that something happened. James, have
you ever thought of bringing a geer
counter looking for levels of radiation
or metal detectors or, you know, um, you
could do a gravometer, anything like
that.
>> Couple months ago, I have a friend who's
quasi professional with a with a metal
detector
>> and we went out there for a day or two.
One we did in the evening. It was so hot
during the daytime. And he he looked at
me and he's like, "Man, this whole area
has been all upturned. like it had
changed when we flew our drone over it
when we were first meeting with him
after 26 years out at the site.
>> You could clearly see from the air a a
visible difference in the soil like just
from
>> Oh, that's obvious.
>> So obvious. And then it's changed since
then. They bulldozed it or something.
They've shifted stuff all around. And my
friend said, "Dude, I would need this is
a job." And after a couple of days, he
goes, "I would need probably several
months out here." We didn't have that
time. I think it's something that should
be done. And also another uh comment by
uh the forensic pathologist uh Dr.
Armando. He said perhaps we could do
some soil samples and bring soil
samples. We could take a close look
because he thinks that the anything left
behind would have been macro particles,
but they could possibly do. So I'd
probably go out there with a geologist
and find out where the best areas of
runoff, animal mounds, ant mounds, you
know, areas that where where this debris
would most likely end up after 30 years.
>> Yeah. and gather those samples and get
them analyzed. I think another good idea
is like there's ground penetrating
radar, you know, are there things that
penetrate even more deeply than, you
know, metal detector? Like you might
want to speak to Brandon Fugal or you
know, people who uh are dealing with
what they think of as kind of exotic
underground objects and you know how
they're how they're and honestly I would
do that as soon as you human as soon as
humanly possible because we're we're
going to be amplifying this story and so
that the antibodies might come out.
Carlos,
this experience must have been so
profound and
I imagine it's impacted you really,
really deeply. Have you ever gotten a
hypnotic regression to recall
vividly what might have happened?
>> Yes, I did. I did it at the beach with a
friend,
person we call Saga.
He's uh well he says at least he told me
that he's one of the specialists in
Brazil who does regression hypnosis and
he showed me some things that left me
kind of
shocked
>> if I told you oh do you remember what
you said no he showed me the video okay
and that really shook me
what he showed me
>> what did he Hey.
>> Well, according to what's recorded
there, it says that I had a mental
contact with the creature. I don't
remember that. If I said I do, that
would be a lie. Okay. And if you ask,
"Oh, do you remember it?" No, that would
be a lie. I only saw it in the recording
he made, but I can't confirm it myself.
I can't say yes, I remember. I only talk
about what I actually remember. In that
hypnosis, he says, "I became very
distressed, very worried. It even
happened at the beach. We were there
relaxed and he said, "Let's do the
hypnosis, the regression." And he got
scared. This saga guy got scared. So
much so that he suggested, "Let's write
a book." And I said, "No, no, no. Forget
it. Erase this. Wipe it out. I don't
want to know about this. I don't want to
make money. I don't want anything from
this."
>> What was the nature of the mental
connection? And was anything
transmitted? Was anything said between
the being and yourself? according to
what's recorded there.
This part is erased for me. I don't
remember it. Okay, I'm only going to
report what's on the recording. It says
that I was desperate trying to get
closer. And the creature was speaking
mentally, saying, "Calm down. Everything
is fine. Go away. It's dangerous for you
here. Don't come closer. Go away. Stay
calm. We're fine. Stay calm. You can go.
We just want to thank you for your
concern. Thank you for worrying, but
we're fine.
Stay calm. We'll talk, but stay calm.
Stay calm. We're fine.
Be at ease. We're fine. And I said,
"Please, I want to help." No. Calm down.
Calm down. That's what's recorded there.
Do you remember this? No, I don't
remember it.
>> And and don't worry because I'll make
this very clear to the audience. This is
the more speculative part that you're
not you're admitting you're not sure of.
And this is it's a modality that a lot
of memories when it comes to traumatic
or very anomalous events
get fractured. And this is a real
modality that helps you retrieve real
memories in many cases. So we're taking
this maybe with more of a grain of salt
than the rest of your testimony. But I
do think it's important also
if we're trying to get a little deeper
into what might have happened, you have
to hold it loosely. But I do think you
have to view it as data. So you
mentioned that it the the beings said
they wiped your memory. Is that is that
true? They they they said that they
didn't want you to remember what had
happened.
>> According to what was recorded there,
they told me that I would never
remember,
that it would be very dangerous for me.
They didn't want me to remember and they
would do everything to make sure I
wouldn't.
Is it is there anything else you said
about the communication between you and
the beings
in that recording?
>> No,
no. What I remember is only that. Okay.
Then I started getting very agitated in
the recording. I started crying, getting
extremely agitated about everything.
Suddenly he himself stopped it and said,
"No, calm down." I mean, my heart was
racing. I was, you know, really worked
up. He said, "Calm down." Then he
brought me back, ended it,
the regression,
the hypnosis, right? He stopped it
there. After that, he told me this was
one of the these are Dr. Sager's words
that this was one of the most impressive
experiences he had ever seen in his
life. And this hypnotist had no
experience with people who've had alien
visitations or abduction experiences or
anything like that.
>> I don't know. I really don't know how to
tell you. I met him on the day of the
first screening of uh James' film. We
went to Sorokaba, which is a city in the
state of S. Paula. It's called Sorokaba
where the documentary premiered and that
person was there and that's where I met
him. There was also another doctor there
who wanted to do hypnosis with me. But I
tried to schedule it with her and she
was always unavailable, busy traveling.
Then Saga came and said, "Come on, let
me do it. I'm just as much a specialist
as she is." I said, "All right." And he
did the regression with me.
After that, I never wanted to do it
again, and I don't want to. The
experience was horrible. I felt very bad
afterward. Really bad. I don't want it.
Please. Uh, I kept saying, "No, no, no,
please. I don't want this." I felt
terrible afterward.
>> I can't explain the feeling it gave me.
>> I interview many experiencers,
some of whom retrieve more about their
experiences through hypnotic regression.
And they always say the same as you.
They say we can't say that part for sure
is true. We know what we experienced in
our waking reality. And then some of
these other things might have happened
as well. But it's interesting. The one
common thing that they all say is their
heart speeds up. In certain case, one of
them went into a fibrillation because he
was reexperiencing the beings. So, it
seems to be this traumatic thing that we
repress and that, you know, often comes
out.
I guess, you know, kind of point blank,
my question to you would be in your
hardest of hearts, do you think what
came out in that hypnotic regression is
real? and that maybe you did achieve
some sort of mental contact with the
beings. If you had to guess, and we're
all giving you the grace to know that
you're speculating here and that you're
being very honest about the line between
what you experienced in waking reality
and what's coming out through this more
speculative technique.
>> I believe it because I saw the tape,
>> the recording.
>> If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe
it.
Simple as that. If someone came to me
today and said, "Hey, do it again." I'd
say, "No, sorry. I won't. I refuse."
Because I felt really bad afterward. And
from the recording, it's impressive.
Looks like my chest was about to
explode. You could see my chest moving
like this. It was something anguishing.
Seeing myself afterward after I had
calmed down and all that. Watching that
footage of myself was very impactful. I
thought, "Wow, I could have had a
massive heart attack right there."
It was very very intense. So I I believe
it because I saw the recording he made.
He has it all recorded.
But if you ask me, do you believe it
consciously? No. I don't have that
conscious memory. And what I don't have
conscious awareness of, I don't fully
believe. I'm very, how can I put it?
Like St. Thomas, I have to see it to
believe it.
I'm very grounded. I don't like
makebelieve or little stories like, "Oh,
I saw this. I saw that." Just stories.
I'm much more about reality. Did the
event happen? It did. I report the
event. Period.
I think honesty and sincerity come above
everything else.
Unfortunately, eupfology worldwide,
not just in Brazil, I mean worldwide
is often discredited.
Why? Because people invent too many
little stories, you know, and people
just believe them. Many times when you
start talking to these people, you
realize the stories make no sense at
all. They can't explain anything. They
say they saw something, then later they
didn't, and it becomes absurd. And
that's why I'm very skeptical
in that regard.
>> Final question, Carlos.
You are a geography teacher and you're
an ultralight pilot. How has this
experience changed you know your
teaching of geography knowing that we
are not possibly the only map with
habitable universe and then uh when you
fly do you ever wonder if you're going
to encounter the UFOs again
>> first of all as a teacher which is
something I truly love being it's a
profession I genuinely love teaching
sharing knowledge
It's a unique experience. And what
happened? Well, to this day, my students
never knew about this story. Only after
James did some of them start to find
out. But about 90% still don't know.
They can't connect the dots. They can't
link
their teacher Kalus to that story,
right? And honestly, that's a good
thing. As a person, I believe this
difficulty exists
all over the world.
People are very religious. Many believe
deeply in religion. And religions often
deny the existence of other forms of
life, believing they are the only beings
in the galaxy. So many times I hold
back. I don't talk about it. I don't
comment to avoid arguments and
controversy. Because then parents
complain to the school principal. Oh,
he's talking about extraterrestrials.
that doesn't exist. My priest said this,
my pastor said that and so on so on
that's complicated. So professionally
as a professional I avoid that kind of
topic. As a professional in the
classroom I'm professor Kahalus a
geography teacher. I'm there to explain
geopolitics, geoeconomics, geoysics.
In other words, to teach geography and
give my best as a professional to my
students. Now, as a pilot, of course, I
hope that one day I might encounter
something like that again. Sometimes I
even think if I saw an object like the
Phoenix lights in the United States,
that triangle shape, and I were flying,
I'd go toward it. That's a fact. But
wouldn't you be afraid? No. I even joked
about this with James once. I said,
"James, if you encountered a craft and
they said come with us, what would you
do?" He said, "No, I have a young
child."
I laughed and said, "Oh, no. I'd go
without a problem." Cuz something
really, I don't know, changed, you know,
the world.
>> I don't believe they're here with bad
intentions cuz if they were, they would
have taken over a long time ago. Just
imagine as a human being.
that there are
beings capable of crossing the universe
with technology to travel across space.
Do you really think we as mere humans
would have any way to fight them?
>> If they wanted to invade us, they would
have done it long ago.
>> So, the only thing I can believe is that
they're here to help us. And of course,
we hope that's the case.
That's it. There's nothing more to say.
As a pilot, I'd love to meet them. As a
teacher, I keep things separate
for children, teenagers, young people,
adults, so things don't get confused.
Professionally speaking,
I've spent 23 years in the classroom, in
schools,
and
I was also an entrepreneur for 25 years.
So I can't mix things up. What I
believe, what I know, what I saw, I
don't have the right to impose that on
anyone else. I don't have that right. No
one does.
You have free will to believe whatever
you want
for you to be free.
If you believe, great. If you don't,
that's fine, too. I respect you as a
human being, as a person, and I always
will.
>> Carlos, it's been an honor. I really
appreciate your testimony. The level of
descriptiveness and detail with which
you recall an event that happened 30
years ago is absolutely remarkable. And
uh I just find you to be a very kind of
candid, honest person. I don't sense any
sort of deception from you. And uh you
seem like a very deep and spiritual
person as well. And like you you
mentioned uh Thomas who wants to know, I
can tell that you have that same streak
in you and you're a a Gnostic kind of uh
meaning seeker and uh I I pray that you
keep going on your path and uh that you
uh get the the truth that you want.
>> I'm very grateful truly. I only have
thanks to give to you to human beings
like you like James whom I deeply
respect.
Amandu.
Serious people. People like Vidia,
Lilani, her other sister, all the girls,
people who really lived through this.
I'm only grateful. Okay. Honest, good
human beings like these who crossed my
path.
>> Are there any key details we missed here
that are worth retelling? The only thing
I would add is I'd like an explanation
for why for 26 years not a single straw
was removed from that place. Then after
26 years James' documentary comes out
and they go there and remove more than
30 meters of earth. I just want to know
why. I don't understand that. If they
have nothing to hide, why do that?
That's all. Other than that,
everything's fine. That's it. If you
ever need anything, I make myself
available at any time. Really, if you
need me to anyone anywhere in the world,
the only thing I ask is please cover my
lodging and food. I'm still human. I
eat, drink, sleep like anyone else. I'm
always willing to go anywhere to report
what I saw
>> with the utmost sincerity.
>> You deserve that and so much more. And
um yeah, it's funny. renovations 26
years later doesn't make a lot of sense.
But uh appreciate you being here,
Carlos. It's been an absolute honor and
thank you for coming to Austin, Texas.
And I hope we could be in touch.
>> No, thank you. As they say, namaste.
>> Namaste too.
>> Okay.
>> It happened to me in the woods. I was
hiking solo. New year, no phone, no
gear. I was just trying to find myself.
That's when I saw it. Something glowing,
silent, descending through the trees. A
UFO. And stepping out from it wasn't an
alien or an android. It was me, but
better. Same face, same great hair, but
something was different. This guy had
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>> We received an unexpected request for a
meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at
Hospital Regional.
The doctor requested the team enter by
the more inconspicuous back entry. No
one knew why.
>> I asked them to take us where the alien
brought. This is regional hospital.
>> So it went regional hospital and then it
went to humanitas. Humanitas uh Eza Eza
Campinas Campinas America.
>> Okay. If you film me, you have to wear a
mask. And James and I are going to wear
this.
>> Okay.
contest.
>> So, let's talk about the context, right?
>> Yes.
>> Dr. Italo Venturelli, the head
neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was
on duty in the ICU when he had the most
extraordinary encounter of his life.
>> In this room or which room?
>> This room.
>> Right here.
>> The alien was alive in this bed right
here. key. You
>> also say when you approach the hospital,
you say, "Is this the hospital where the
ET was treated?" And they're like, "Yes,
you come inside." You know,
>> big plaque out front. You walk into the
reception. Oh yeah, he's brought around
the back.
>> There's somebody still working here that
was there that night. I mean, it's it's
How do you hide the truth? Right out in
the open.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know that it
seems like it's uh not even disputed at
the administrative basic routine level,
which is where you expect you expect the
bureaucracy to be told, "Hey, just keep
your mouth shut." And in this case,
they're all just like, "Yeah, this is
where we treated the ET." Like, and
there's a there's a plaque. What does
the plaque say?
>> Uh I have to get the literal
translation, but this is the path of the
ET. Came here to this hotel on January
20th, 19, United States.
>> Came here to this hospital.
>> This Sorry, hospital. say, "Yeah,
regional." Yeah, it's right out front. I
got a photograph of it. I can give it to
you.
>> That is wild. I'd love to see the
photograph.
>> I'll I'll send it to you. Show it.
>> So, I'm here with in my mind maybe the
most significant witness when it comes
to seeing UFOs,
ET beings, beings from what seemed to be
another world
in the entire world. And the reason I
say that is because of your background,
your pedigree. You're a neurosurgeon.
People depend on you to operate on their
brains. You manage a chain of three
hospitals who cannot operate without
you. And because you spent
four to five minutes in your own
estimation face to face with one of
these entities.
And so it is an absolute honor to be
with you today and I can't thank James
Fox enough for getting you, Dr. Armando,
Carlos Doza
all to the US. This is a dream come true
for me. So thank you for being here.
>> Thank you for inviting me.
>> I'm a very simple person
raised in a very modest manner.
>> I had the opportunity to occasionally
help those hospitals.
I had excellent teachers
including some that were American like
Dr. Huck
>> and many wonderful neurosurgeons both
from my country and my hometown
Marines
and it's a pleasure to be here with you
but I'm just a simple person who had the
privilege by chance of seeing a very
different kind of being.
So just for everybody in the audience's
sake, I would like to know your name and
your background, both educational
background and professional background.
>> My name is Itali.
I was born in S. Paulo. I studied in S.
Paulo at the bos school. I did my
residency in S. Alu and I've been in
Miner since 1983
in the city of Vaj.
The place where I arrived already had a
very well established neurosurgery
service run by Dr. Tasidu and Domingos
and I was part of it. They already had a
whole service set up which allowed me to
develop many skills I already possessed
and they taught me a lot there.
>> So lots of surgeries. It's a hospital.
>> Before January 1996, did you have any
interest in aliens, ETS, UFOs, anything
like that?
>> No, I'm a neurosurgeon and we work for
the public health system. So, we spend
most of our time in the operating room.
So, I really didn't have any such
interest. I did travel to Egypt on an
excursion through a course called
Bravida in Salo. But I had no previous
knowledge. Only later did I try to
understand what happened at that moment.
>> And you managed three hospitals. Is that
correct?
>> In the past, yes, but no longer. I was
the financial director of some and the
technical director of others.
And people watching should also be aware
you just came off of a 48 hour shift. So
it makes me even more grateful that
you're here. Um I want to get into the
core details. So what happened January
1996? If you could walk me through it in
uh as much detail as possible, just play
byplay, moment by moment. Right. Okay.
>> I had operated on a child
>> whose name was Eric.
1996
he had crruzone syndrome and a cranio
stenosis.
Cruz is a surgery that has to be done on
the skull in the face. We did the
cranial part.
I operated on that child and went to my
office nearby. I went on foot. I went to
my office to write prescriptions,
prepare reports,
and worried about Eric
the whole time. I didn't lose sight of
him.
When I returned after the hospital
closed, I went in through the corner
where cars couldn't enter. And a
reporter from a very large company in
Brazil called Hijabu
asked me, "Did you operate on the ET?"
I don't know what she's talking about.
There was no social media at the time.
I thought they were talking about the
boy because he was different.
I didn't even finish the sentence. I
just said that's no way to speak of
someone.
So, I moved on. I went into the
hospital. When I entered the hospital,
we had a younger colleague called Marcus
Vinesus,
a younger neurosurgeon who every time we
had surgery to perform would ask for
certain instructions as he was very
young. Where to open, draw, draw here,
don't go away, sit down, have a rest.
But that day, he called me to an
adjacent room and said, "Look what I
did."
He showed me a large camera with what
seemed to be a small calculator right
next to it.
>> I looked and didn't understand what it
was. For a moment, it looked like
another case of Cruz syndrome. It was a
child. It looked like one. But I asked
him, "What is this?"
He said, "It's here."
He came over. There was a screen, a
cover, right? I looked, got closer, and
it was there.
There was a being there, totally
different from a human being.
He wasn't an adult. He was like a
seven-year-old child,
covered
here, the hand inside, here the hand
outside, very calm, at ease.
The skull looked like a drop.
The eyes also looked like two drops.
Lilac, not red. White skin, no foul
smell. At first glance, it looked like
Casper, the friendly ghost, you know,
from the cartoon.
>> Looked like him. But I looked and the
being looked at me very calmly, very
peacefully.
He looked out the window.
He looked back at me
very calm and I even asked my colleague
and he said what do you think
and we approach it as doctors
if there's bleeding pain agitation
if breathing is normal if there's need
for emergency care
so I said Okay.
Once again, what do you think? I looked
again.
>> It's not bleeding. It's not in pain.
It's breathing normally. No problem.
Everything's fine.
The being looked at me. As I always say,
it looked at me with a very beautiful
look. Not a judgmental look, not a look
of fear.
It had the look of someone who
understands very well what is going on.
>> But it was a different person, a
different being. It wasn't human at all.
It wasn't a case of human anomalies. It
was a different being. I've been dealing
with humans for 46 years. But back then,
about 30 years ago, we knew how to tell
when it was or wasn't a human.
It looked at me with a very beautiful
gaze that left a lasting impression. I
usually say that from then on it feels
like you turn into a different person.
>> And at a certain moment having a
conversation with James and the boys,
>> they asked me what I thought.
>> I said it was a very beautiful look. It
moved me. I said
>> it looked like an angel looking at us
very much so that kind of look. very
understanding, very calm, very tranquil.
Like it's saying, "I've known you for a
long time. Don't worry. I know you took
care of me, but everything's fine. I'm
back to normal."
>> This colleague had the video. He showed
it to several people. Many people
watched this video at his house
on his computer.
And then James and the others were there
looking for the tape. Where's the tape?
Where's the tape? I mean, if you saw the
tape, it's wonderful.
It's short, but it's a different kind of
being.
It's a being that changes the history of
humanity because it's the first time
we're seeing a different kind of being
there live. But I don't have that tape.
I told James that if I had that tape, I
wouldn't need to be on duty until today.
I wouldn't need to be working as much as
I do.
>> And on and on about the tape. And then I
said, I don't have the tape. He's
already dead, but I saw it. As soon as I
said that I'd seen it, James
started breathing down my neck, everyone
pressing me, "Describe it. Describe it."
And I described it a little differently
from what people saw.
Some people said they saw a green being,
others a brown being,
>> red eyes,
protuberances. I saw a calmer being. I
didn't see all that. I don't know if
they had already cleaned him up at the
hospital.
>> I don't know the answer. That's just
what I think.
And very calm.
And then we managed to get into the
hospital for a bit. And I apologized to
the hospital management. I should have
informed them that we had entered the
hospital where it was. After that, we
didn't go in anymore. And from then on,
James and everyone else started pulling
up the story, unraveling the thread,
gathering various testimonies from
people who also saw it. And the big
problem is that when you talk about
this, it's difficult for many people to
believe you.
>> Me, too. If someone told me, I'd say,
"Yeah, maybe." But I can assure you and
especially the younger generation who
comes after us that I did see it. I was
there. I mean there are more things than
our earth and this planet of ours and
these wonders of ours. There are even
more wonders. You see
and what they ask me about his gaze.
What I convey is that it was a very
calm, very peaceful gaze which I think
we really need all over the world.
So,
in January 1996,
you uh operated on a child and then uh
you were asked about that and so you
said you didn't know about the the the
ET being when you were asked about that
and then you walked into the hospital
and you were were you assigned to look
at the being by Marcos Venus, your
colleague, or how did you did you just
pass by the room or
>> No, he happens to be my friend. I was on
my way to the pediatric department.
>> Did he want to show you this being
specifically? He said, "I want you to
see this."
>> That's right.
>> Uh,
>> that's right. Come see what I've done.
>> Had you heard any sort of whispers
around the hospital that this being was
there? No.
>> No. No.
>> So, this was the first time you just you
just walked in. You had no context and
you just see this being? I only realized
that the hospital was completely closed
down. Right. I went in because I had
been the director there. Very well
known.
>> Wow. And um so you you see the being
what do what's your emotion like when
you see what it looks like? How do you
process what it looks like? How does
that sort of sit with you immediately
when you see, you know, this this figure
that presumably is like something you've
never seen before in the corridor when
he said, "Come see what I've done."
Whenever someone says that to us who
have been doctors for years, we
automatically think it's an emergency.
And when I went and saw the tape and saw
the being, there was a mixture of
surprise and relief
because the being was all right.
It wasn't a medical emergency. When
we're called, it's to do a suture, to
operate, to intubate.
It was fine.
And like I always say, when I'm asked,
"What did I think?" I could examine
carefully. It's conscious.
It's not in pain. It's not bleeding.
>> Breathing normally. It's not an
emergency. You can think about it
carefully.
>> What did Marcos Vinesis tell you about
the being when he shows it to you? Did
he give you any context?
>> He said, "I performed a procedure.
From what I saw on the tape, there was a
little basin like this.
An amis basin and a needle holder. He
probably gave stitches.
It wasn't a big surgery. It was a small
procedure
>> on the tape
because when I looked at the being,
there was none of that anymore. He was
just lying there with the surgical
drape.
>> One hand in and the other out like this.
Nothing here. And it's peaceful.
The bed positioned upright
like we do for neurological patients.
They don't lie down completely.
Otherwise, the patient might vomit. The
patient stays more upright.
And it's very, very comfortable. And it
looked at me in such a beautiful way. I
always say that
You asked me what impression I had. To
me, he was okay. He didn't need us and
had a very beautiful gaze, right? A look
without judgment.
>> Physical characteristics.
You've described this before, but what
exactly did this being look like?
>> Human, I mean, humanoid, right?
>> He had arms. He had a chest.
>> Hal's wife asked if he had nipples. I
didn't see nipples.
I didn't see a nipple lying there like
that. Neck, very small mouth. The eyes
like this as if they were drops like
that.
Lilac.
Lilac.
>> Just like Elizabeth Taylor's eyes.
>> Yes.
Remember
I'd heard about it. So when I saw it, I
was like, whoa.
Well, this Taylor was probably an
extraterrestrial, right? So, the eyes,
the skull in that way, that teardrop
shape, right?
And very peaceful. There was no
suffering there. No suffering at all.
>> There was no bad smell, no odor, no
nervousness, nothing diabolical. A very
angelic kind of being. Totally at peace.
>> How tall was the being?
>> Like a seven-year-old child.
>> Yeah, seven. Do you have any sense of
the weight?
>> I don't know. A child of about 7 years
old lying down. I didn't see here, you
know. I didn't see down there. It was
covered, you know.
>> What was the nature of the surgery that
was done on this being?
>> I think he only gave a few stitches,
but I'm guessing right. I didn't see him
stitch it up. He must have stitched it
up a few times because the surgical
instruments in the video were very
small.
He didn't have a surgical kit. He didn't
have many open tools.
>> Neurosurgery is all about boxes and
boxes of open tools just like Formula 1,
you know.
>> Did you ever ask Marcos Vinesis, "How
did you know how to perform surgery on
this being? Were the organs similar to
humans?"
>> Oh, that he already he knew how to do
that. He had been working with us for
about 2 or 3 years.
>> But that's not much time for
neurosurgery, right? Takes about 15
years for a neurosurgeon to mature, to
gain the experience to do things like
you guys here. You must have a lot of
experience to be doing this whole
podcast, right? He knew what he was
doing. He wanted confirmation.
Being young and it was something so
different, he wanted confirmation. He
wanted to share it with someone. And
since I was the one close to him that
day, because he shared this with other
colleagues, other very experienced
colleagues,
the doctors trained in Beli and many
that were more experienced than me. But
on that day, I was the one there.
>> So, it's almost like he wanted you to
review his work and just make sure that
he had done the right thing.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Did he take anything out of the head or
it was just what was the purpose of the
surgery?
>> I think it was only to give some
stitches from the instruments I saw on
the table that I saw in the video
because when I went to look there was
nothing there anymore. It was covered
up.
>> It had already happened. That's why he
said, "Come see what I've done."
>> Uh, okay. So, it was um not necessarily
surgically removing anything. It was
just repairing.
>> Okay.
>> Yes. To repair. That makes sense because
if you have something that's
physiologically very different than a
human being, uh if you had to do
something more intricate or complex on
the organ itself, if it wasn't something
you were familiar with, that would be
much harder, obviously. Did you learn
anything else about the physiology of
this being? Whether they had the same
reproductive organs as human beings,
were their bone structures? I can't say
because from here down I couldn't see
anything. It was covered up. There was
definitely a bone structure because
there was an arm, a forearm, a hand, and
an opposable thumb as it's called,
>> and three fingers here when you're
looking at it in the eyes. And do you
feel like time is slowing or do you feel
any other sort of special interesting
sensations?
>> What you just said is true. Time slows
down.
It really does slow down because he
didn't talk to me. He didn't speak to
me. But the feeling was as I'm
describing to you,
>> that he understood what was happening.
He wasn't afraid.
He was highly intelligent, at least more
than I was. It's like talking to a
child.
You're talking to the child. The child
gives you something. You say, "Thank
you. It's okay. You can relax."
He talked to me as if I were a child.
>> And what were the words that were
transpiring? Was it first of all, was it
verbal? Was it telepathic?
>> Like everything's all right. I can't say
it's telepathic. I have no knowledge of,
you know,
parasychology. I get asked about this a
lot. But that was the feeling I had.
>> The feeling that everything was all
right, especially because of that gaze.
You also have a very calm gaze. So, it
was very gentle, very understanding,
like, "I understand what you've done for
me here. Thank you,
but I got to get going. I understand
everything's fine."
And he kept looking out the window. I
think maybe to see his surroundings
perhaps,
to see if he could locate where he was,
to situate himself. He wasn't locked up.
He wasn't restrained. People always ask
me if he was tied up. Of course not. He
was free.
>> If you had to guess, how many witnesses
at the hospital uh saw this being?
>> Many people say they saw it. Nurses.
The radiology technician says he saw a
closed box.
But as I'm telling you,
it's difficult to talk about this
subject. People say we're crazy. There's
this thing about neurosurgeons being
crazy, messing with the human brain,
right?
>> But it's difficult to talk about it.
Many people ridicule us.
>> So, did you operate on ET? Was it hard?
>> Marcos Vinesis, your friend, operated on
the being he passed away in 2018.
between 1996 and 2018, did you ever have
heart-to-heart conversations with him?
Like, Marcos, oh my god, we've
experienced something profound and talk
about, you know, speculate what was this
being, what were his intentions with us
at his house. He would show that video
to all his relatives,
all of them. There was a sofa. We'd go
in, there was a computer, this little
table, and we'd sit here and he'd show
us. Then he'd say, "Did you see this
here?" Now, he never talked to me about
the military. Never. He never talked to
me about any pressure. He was afraid
perhaps to talk about it. And we're
afraid even today of losing our jobs, of
the government taking away our own
medical licenses, of questioning us. And
you lose your medical license because
it's your source of income. We're
doctors. our whole lives. It's our
livelihood. So you talk but with some
reservation
as if you were a patient. You can't go
around saying I operated on this
patient. He had HIV or he had this
disease. I can't say any of that. If
someone overhears that I can be sued. So
it was a very private conversation
where you speak but you don't. You know
>> in America we have something called
HIPPA which is what you're saying you
know patient confidentiality
um having said that when the nature of
reality is on the line I think what
you're doing is exactly right and
correct
>> and uh
>> so let me ask you a little bit more
about the physical attributes is there
anything else worth noting about the the
blood the texture texture of the skin,
any other physical attributed
ours. I can't say if it was soft or not
because I didn't touch it because I had
just come in from the street. And we
have medical training that teaches us
that when you enter the hospital, if you
don't wash your hands,
>> a nurse will already note it down,
>> explaining to others, such and such went
in, didn't wash his hands, didn't put on
his cap, didn't put on his gown, and the
hospital management then they put it
there. The doctor went in and didn't
wash his hands. The doctor went in and
didn't wash his hands. The doctor went
in, didn't put on a mask. The doctor
went in. You understand? So, I hadn't I
just walked in.
>> I wasn't in the operating room. I wasn't
in surgical scrubs. I was wearing my
street clothes, just looking. So, I
didn't touch it.
>> And I approached it like this. I didn't
get that close, about a meter, like the
distance between us here. But you could
see perfectly that there was no smell.
>> He was very clean,
>> very calm. I didn't see any blood. I
didn't see any blood stains on the bed.
Were they taking his biomarkers? So,
oxygen level, heart rate, those sorts of
things. Was he being monitored for No.
>> No. No, it wasn't being monitored at
all. Because, as I'm telling you, it was
an improvised location.
>> Clean. Very clean. Because the hospital
there is very well maintained, but it
wasn't an area used for surgery. It was
an area that nowadays is an ICU. I'm
saying he I'm assuming gender. Did you
have any sense of the being's gender?
Was it male? Was it female?
>> No. No. No. There was none. I can't
really say. Like I'm telling you, I
didn't see nipples. And it had to look
like that of a child. Even many times
there are children that you you can't
tell many times by the haircut if
they're male or female. It didn't have
hair or fur.
no fur, so I couldn't tell. And in our
world, there are earrings, lipstick, or
some different haircuts to
differentiate, but it was a very, very
simple being.
>> You mentioned in a past interview with
James that the being was like an angel.
What makes you say that? And that we
have a lot to learn from the being. You
said that as well.
>> Yes, we do. Because it had a look. I
better be careful. I'm going to cry.
>> Excuse me.
It's a look of understanding,
a kind of paternal and compassionate
look. Like it's saying, "I know what
you're doing, but it's all right.
>> It's fine. Whatever you did to me, it's
over now. Everything's all right. I
don't know if they arrested him or if
they beat him. I can't say. That's what
they say." And a very gentle, very calm
look like, "Go in peace. There's hope in
your life. Keep moving forward.
But that's my interpretation, right?
>> So people wonder and ask, "Was there any
contact? Do you have this here?"
>> Like an angel really looked like an
angel.
>> The kind of being that would forgive
your sins, the silly things you did in
life,
our inability,
and we did so little. We could have done
perhaps much more for it, right? But
it's not that we didn't want to. We
didn't know how, especially in 96. We
had almost nothing, you know. We had the
equipment of that time. We didn't have
the monitors we have today. Cameras,
intercoms, monitors, blood gas
analyzers, all those things that allow
you to instantly diagnose, collect a
blood sample, take an X-ray. You know,
back then it was what we call
proctoscopy. The doctor looked
and used the cognitive parameters that
we have right from so much experience
let's say our experience that's why he
called me and I called others many times
too and asked what do you think of this
we talked the doctors talked a lot in
person because we didn't have social
media I'd tell a story you'd tell a
story we tried to operate as a team
because everyone would say something
different like be careful with this. I
would do it this way. I would do it that
way. Nowadays, doctors are very isolated
and spend their time with computers and
targets, which is fine, but it's a
different kind of doctor, a different
kind of person. We had the day-to-day
experience. I operate with colleagues.
What would you do? I would go this way.
What would you do now? Now, I would
leave. You know, that's enough. I always
say this to the younger ones. That's
enough.
>> So, you told Marcos Vinesis you've done
a good job and there's nothing more to
do. Essentially,
>> you've done a good job. That's it. It's
all good. Will you call me if you need
anything? I will.
>> You mentioned that the being almost
seemed to have control of the room. What
did you mean by that?
>> Total control.
It understood what was happening. It's
like when you see some children playing.
You're an adult. You're watching
children play. You're in control. You
didn't fall. You weren't hurt. You're
calm. You can touch that. You won't get
shocked.
>> You're calm. The window isn't open.
You're aware. They're playing.
>> What was your first instinct when you
saw the being? Is this being related to
humanity in some way evolutionarily,
or do they come from some distant place?
very advanced.
First, like I said, that reassuring look
indicating that it wasn't an emergency
because for those of us who work in
hospitals, there's like a button here.
Emergency.
Code red. It wasn't a code red. As you
said and mentioned very well, time
stops.
It stops. It belongs to him.
That time was ours.
Everything else doesn't exist.
Only that moment right there. And it
would look at us as if it were saying,
"There's nothing but this moment.
Anything else is another reality."
And it's really cool to see since you're
asking me and the words keep coming.
There's no rush because the world today
is in such a hurry. Someone looks at
you, you already doing something else.
would do three or four things
practically at the same time
>> and there's no time to give time the
time it needs.
>> You've mentioned a few times in this
interview that there was no smell. Many
of the other witnesses of the being have
said an ammonia or sulfurlike smell
accompanied this being or the craft
crashing.
>> Odorless.
>> No smell at all. If there was a smell,
it was the smell of the hospital. The
smell of those products we use in a
hospital.
>> There was no bad smell. Nothing at all.
>> Do you know what happened to the being?
So you see the being. How long were you
with the being face to face?
>> Initially about two minutes of looking.
Looked this way. Looked that way. I
turned to talk to Mox Venus.
Okay. Etc. etc. I looked again. Another
1 2 minutes about 3 4 minutes in total.
It's like I told James, I'm going to the
US. But what I have to say is this. It
was those four minutes.
But 4 minutes that felt like an
eternity. I was still wondering this
morning.
We who work in intensive care.
We examine a patient and we want to come
back the next day to see how they're
doing, if they've improved, if they
haven't. To this day, I still want to go
back there to see if he's left yet.
>> You know what I mean? You get worried.
>> Not all patients. We don't get
emotionally attached to everyone.
>> But we do with some with children, with
the elderly, someone you saved. You get
attached. You leave and you keep
thinking about them, right? Just last
night, I spent the whole night asking
myself about potassium levels and, you
know, overthinking.
How did you sleep that night that you
saw the being?
>> Oh, I didn't I didn't grasp the
magnitude of everything that had
happened. I didn't have the perspective.
I didn't. Nowadays, I have more of it
because of how much it's talked about,
how much people think about it.
Nowadays, I have a better grasp. Like I
said about last night, overthinking
things.
>> It seems like even now recollecting this
memory, it's packed with emotion. Were
you sad? Were you happy? or did this
excavate some feelings inside of you
that you already had? H how exactly
would you describe the emotional impact
of this being?
At first it was a relief
because when he called me and I saw it,
I thought it was an emergency that we
would have to intubate, go into surgery.
When I saw that everything was worked
out,
I felt at ease
after that. a surprise because you see
something different, a different being.
>> Then you start thinking like a doctor
again. Could there be anything else?
Could there be bleeding somewhere?
There weren't that many monitors, so you
just keep looking. Then you start
analyzing.
Then you calm down again. And then
looking at him, you start to get
emotional because you begin to see not
so much the physical aspect but the
emotional aspect. The aspect of
consciousness.
You start to analyze other things.
Consciousness, mood, whether he has the
initiative to do things, whether he's
mobilizing himself, whether he's afraid,
you see other things. And as I said
again, it's the look that moves me. a
tranquil, calm look. I understand
everything. I appreciate what you've
done here, but it's time to go.
Let's go. Enough is enough. He would
even look up to the sky to get his
bearings
>> cuz there's a window there without bars
or anything.
>> You could see it perfectly.
>> Why do you Why do you cry when you
recollect the experience? And what
emotion comes up inside of you when you
when you just when you think about it
because nowadays
doctors are criticized for everything
they do.
The colleague I mentioned, Mox Vinesus,
once we operated on a child and when I
went to talk to the mother, she started
scolding me and he interrupted her
saying, "Ma'am, he's the surgeon, not
the person that ran your child over.
He did the surgery." So, when someone
recognizes your work, it's really great
because our technical work is difficult.
It requires training. But the hardest
part for us doctors is enduring
everything we see.
There's a quote from a famous gentleman
from Brazil called Shikavier
where he says, "What you tolerate
is just as important as what you know."
So you can see that it's a form of
recognition. It was a being who
understood that I was doing my best
despite being limited. It was the best I
could do.
I was giving my soul. Everything I could
do was being done for him and for me who
was saying, "Forgive me for anything,
but everything we know how to do is
being done for you." It really is
moving.
It feels like you're stuck in that room
and can never leave. Like a little piece
of us stays there. You leave, the robot
leaves, a little piece of yourself stays
there. You go back there. You know
>> how did Marcos Vinesis say that it
affected him?
>> Oh, a lot. He even began smoking more.
He'd smoke all day. I would argue with
him and my wife would say, "Stop arguing
with him."
I'd go in the bathroom and see a bunch
of cigarette butts on the floor. Mox is
smoking. You're smoking? No. No. It's
not me. It's my wife. His wife didn't
smoke.
Sana would say, "Stop fighting with
him."
>> So he took up smoking because of this
experience with the being was did it
cause him stress?
>> No, he already smoked but then he
started chain smoking,
>> one after the other.
>> Why do you think the experience
accelerated his smoking?
>> High level of stress, you know,
>> really high level
stress.
You see, being a doctor is stressful,
isn't it? Because wherever you go,
you're a doctor. If you crashed your
car, you're a doctor. If you insulted
someone, you're a doctor. If you did
this, you're a doctor. Right, Doc?
So, our lives aren't as simple as people
say. We don't earn as much as people
say. Our mental work is immense.
You have to be polite even when you're
tired.
You have to, you know, you have to
answer even when you're busy.
>> The work of a doctor here in the United
States, you have a wonderful medicine.
But the work of a doctor on the front
lines, the young doctor is tough.
You have to learn. You have to see.
There are endless meetings, many
sleepless nights. So going back to the
question you asked me when he looked at
us it was already a look of
because otherwise it's just criticism.
If you get it right you've done nothing
more than you duty. Anything you did
even slightly different.
You know it's like a fighter. He fights
50 fights and the one time he didn't
defend himself. Our western society
hurts people. The more successful you
become, the more criticism you face. You
see, artists,
great artists, great singers, if they
forget a piece of the lyric, all hell
breaks loose. And how much effort was
put into getting an engineer? You guys,
even in your own work, if someone says
they can't come in because of personal
problems, our world is very cruel. And
there was no look of cruelty there.
There was a look of understanding, a
gentle look.
You don't come across a look like that.
I have a wife who is a wonderful person
and she sees me that way. But most
people are critical, critical, critical,
critical. And this was moving because it
was a maternal look, not even a paternal
one. It made you feel good saying you're
good. You can go ahead. Move forward.
Keep going. Don't dwell upon it.
>> Moving forward, a forgiving look, a look
of freedom. keep doing what you're
doing.
>> Go like Jesus would say, go forth and
multiply. Be fruitful. You know,
>> did you ever ask Marcos Venus what was
it like to do surgery on a nonhuman
entity? Uh what could be an alien being?
>> No, he was also very worried. You know,
>> he wanted our approval so things
wouldn't fall on him. Nothing went wrong
because I think they took it away. We
didn't continue. We didn't see how that
procedure went.
>> We don't know if it worked or not.
>> Whether it's alive or dead. They said
they brought it to the United States
from Area 51, but I don't know if that's
just folklore, you know.
>> I don't know if that's true.
>> Who who said that the being was
transferred to Area 51 in the United
States?
>> No. In Brazil, the whole story, right,
Draand is that the army took the story.
I can't prove anything. The story was he
was taken carried to Campion to a very
famous pathologist, a friend of Dr.
Rahandus,
Palaris,
and that they then took it to Area 51. I
don't know. That's what they say, right?
I'm just repeating what they tell me.
>> Were you a witness to the being being
removed from the hospital? Did you have
Do you have any details on that? No.
>> I went into the room. He was there. I
left the room. He was there. I didn't
see if he was taken or removed. I did
see the army trucks. Those trucks with
the green tarps. They were all at the
hospital entrance. My car wasn't there.
I went in because I was on foot. I
entered through the corner of the
hospital. Everything was cordoned off
there. You've mentioned multiple times
that there is a video around the surgery
that Marcos Vinesis performed and that
he would even show people a video of him
essentially performing surgery on this
alien.
Where do you think that video is?
>> I always thought that his wife had it.
>> She's also a very simple, modest person.
I think she didn't understand everything
he did because he really liked
collecting American watches.
He collected stuff, you know, related to
musicians.
He used to love buying lots of things
online.
Gifts, you know, novelties,
a new blood pressure monitor, a
different kind of stethoscope,
different things, but everyday items,
cheap things to buy online, mostly
American.
So, I don't know if she managed to get
it that day. James went there. They
searched his whole house, you know. They
took his computer to a warehouse in S.
Paulo. They didn't find anything either,
did they? I don't know. But as I'm
telling you, it was public property.
Everyone saw it. His whole family saw
it.
Some fellow doctors saw it, but people
don't want to talk about it.
Because like they say in the
countryside,
we depend on medical appointments. We
depend on people seeking us out.
>> If they say that one operated on ET,
don't go to him. That one's a smoker.
>> Smoked himself to death. Drank himself
dry.
>> Do you have any sense of where this
video is right now?
>> I think it's still around there, but
they searched so hard.
>> I don't think he
had the insight to make a copy and save
it for his wife.
>> I don't know if he actually did all
that. You know what I'm saying? to think
one day they'll need that tape.
>> I don't know if he had the foresight to
keep it, you know.
>> So, if you if you had to guess, do you
think that the tape is lying around in
private civilian hands?
>> In his house in the middle of a bunch of
CDs?
>> Ah, you think it's in his house still?
>> Yes, I believe so. Like I was saying, he
had the Brightler watch collection.
He had several watches. Omega. He
collected a lot of stuff, a lot of CDs.
You know,
>> you seem to be implying that there's a
connection between his watches and the
video. What What do you think that
connection might be
>> where he kept it he kept it hidden in a
separate closet in his room
once? A lot of his things were stolen
after he died. That's what his wife
says. I don't even know if the thief
knows what they stole.
Know what I mean? Because there was so
much stuff. They stole the watch, but
there were many other things.
>> CDs, clothes.
>> Jesus.
>> Yeah. Like you said,
>> uh, no.
>> Yeah. It was a a place where he kept the
stuff. He gave watches to a lot of
people.
>> He gave away his watches.
>> A lot of souvenirs. He'd give them away.
>> There have to be other photographs,
other videos that were taken at the
hospital. Do you think somewhere a
video, a photo is lying around in
private civilian hands?
>> A lot of people claim that, but you
can't really believe it. James knows.
People have already tried to sell so
many videos to him. But they're not
real.
They're
very well put together with lighting,
props, and lights. And of course, there
was nothing like that. At that moment,
it was just that little camera. actually
a big camera like the ones from the 90s.
You won't remember. You're young. But
they were really big. We put them on our
shoulder like this. Like those TV
cameras. There were no small tapes, no
cell phones, no internet. We didn't
grasp the magnitude of all that could
happen.
I at least had no idea about it.
In 2023, you gave an interview to Marco
Leal, who's James' co-producer on his
movies. He's a famed UFO researcher
local to the region, and you told him
that you hadn't seen the being directly.
You just saw the video. And so, a lot of
people on the internet and in public are
saying, you know, that's an
inconsistency in his statements. What do
you have to say about that? Well,
they're right because I couldn't tell
everything even in 2023
and I didn't want to because it's not as
simple as me being here. To be here, I
had to pay people to be on call for me.
I've exposed myself to doing a lot of
things. We expose ourselves to the
medical council censoring us. There are
a number of things. I'm not rich. I live
off the work I do. But when James went
looking for the tape, he looked for the
tape. looked for the tape. Looked for
the tape. He's going to offer a million
dollars to Marus Vinesu's wife if she
has the tape.
And when they didn't find the tape,
didn't find the tape. I'm in the ICU and
he's still interviewing me. At one
point, I said, "I can't prove it.
I don't have the tape. My Venice has
died. Whatever I say, you either believe
it or you don't. That's a difficult
thing to accept.
>> But I was in the ICU.
>> I thought I was going to have to be
intubated.
>> I had a pulmonary thrombosis.
>> I thought I was going to check out. I'm
done. I had also had a heart attack.
Then going back to talking to James.
Where's the tape? At one point I said, I
don't have the tape, but I was there.
Either you believe my word or you don't.
But I was there. I saw it and I told the
whole story that I'm telling you now,
the entire sequence.
And how emotional I get when I talk
about it. I speak mainly to younger
people. I saw it. You can believe it.
You cannot believe it. You can tell me
I'm this, I'm that, but it was right
there in front of me. Do you believe it
or not?
And there are so many accounts that make
the load lighter because as Dr. Ramondu
says, he even came with me. It's hard
for one person to talk about it. It's
just my word. Nowadays, there are other
testimonies that have revealed more
things. And some Americans were there to
encourage us to come here and talk
because they also have accounts. It's
just that they can't talk about it
either. Well, in your in your defense,
my friend Amar was just down in Virginia
with you and you were speaking to you,
but there was also, I think, a nurse
there who had worked under you. And for
the first time, she started to speak
about this being. And it seems like from
his assessment, it's an open secret
among the hospital. people don't like to
talk about it, but if you really
question them and they're in a
comfortable private environment, they
admit that there's something there.
>> I think what people might be wondering
about in your case, because you your
credentials are unimpeachable in my
opinion, but they might be wondering why
not go from outright denial because
you're fear for your life and because
you know it's hard to talk about these
things to admitting that you saw the
being. I think people might have trouble
with the fact that you said you saw the
video and then you go into seeing the
being and maybe that's just nervousness
and not knowing how to react in these
sort of situations but
like I said not even to my children or
my wife. I told my wife this. This is a
closed subject but as I thought I was
really going to die and I always said to
James seeparate money from what I'm
saying. I'm not selling anything.
Nothing. I don't need to take anything.
The little I have is enough for myself.
>> But people need to know that they have
it.
>> It's the religious people who are
afraid. I'm not talking about religion.
I'm not talking about religion. People
say it's a matter of national security
that I couldn't talk about it. So there
are some doctors who treated a soldier.
He was questioned by the federal police.
It's not so simple to just speak up.
People come to demand consequences.
Councils demand answers. Colleagues
demand answers.
>> There are so many consequences,
especially in Brazil. You yourselves
heard the other day, doctors treat a
former president and the justice system
itself investigates wanting to see what
happened, why he did this, why he did
that. It's not total freedom that we
have. It's a monitored freedom.
>> Did anything happen to you? Did any
consequences occur uh when you spoke out
about this?
>> No.
>> No, but I am afraid.
>> Were you ever threatened?
>> Life is afraid. We're afraid of
everything. Being attacked, of being
murdered, of religious fanatics coming
after us.
It's not so easy to talk. People insult
us on the internet.
>> Who gave you your car? I have such a
basic car.
>> Have you ever been threatened or bribed?
No, it's only on the internet that
they're very offensive. I don't even
look.
>> Do you know anything about possible
American involvement? You know,
independent of obviously what people
residents of Argia, people in Brazil
might think.
>> No.
>> Anything from the hospital as far as
like American CIA or Air Force? based on
all the testimonies
and it's suspected that some military
personnel know but they can't identify
themselves.
They give interviews by modifying their
voice. They give interviews with their
backs turned.
Something did happen because so many
people say so many things that they saw
so many sightings they're talking off
the record. They tell us I've
experienced that too. An American
soldier. I saw him on the top of my
house.
But if I say anything, I'd lose my
pension in the US.
>> Also
defend you here and say the way you
reacted I think is normal for somebody
who isn't media trained. You're not a
media personality. Um there's a guy Dr.
Cesario who's a cardiologist
>> and he has a similar trajectory in the
way his story evolved where it is clear
to us and we're about to speak to Dr.
Armando who literally did the autopsy on
Marco Sharesi, this soldier who
apprehended this being and seemed to die
of a a bacterial infection that we've
never seen the likes of before.
And um this cardiologist who was in
touch with in close touch with Marco
Shari before he died, he would say
things like uh Marco Marcos would tell
me that he was dying of this bizarre
infection. It wouldn't stop and that he
thinks it came from
a possible wound or, you know,
contamination from this oily, you know,
uh uh uh kind of emulsion that came from
the skin of the ET being. And um and
then he would say things like, "Oh no,
but his sister told me. His sister told
me." You know, and he he wouldn't know
how to react. You know, if you were um
interrogating somebody, uh you know, it
would look kind of bad, but it would
look bad in so far as the real truth
being that he actually was in close, you
know, uh uh touch with and in
communication with Marco Shares. And so
I just I also want people to have that
context that if you're if you're not
mediatrained and you're not savvy about
this stuff and you're put on the spot by
some, you know, UFO researcher, then you
might say things that later, you know,
you regret as far as the inconsistency,
but it's very natural.
So the day we were at Toto Rahandanda's
house, Doto Say is a very good friend of
mine, very reserved, extremely
competent, but he also has his
reservations because he has been
questioned before because he tended to
the soldier and he went to the federal
commission.
And when I was asked,
>> was he tied up?
says I went
>> okay I didn't see was he tied up no
>> did you ever interact with Marco Sharesi
at all
>> no I didn't see
no
>> we're we're speculating now but what do
you think the intent of this being was
with humanity at large
>> so people say that they saw
the ship being shot down, that someone
fired on it because it was already
falling when it arrived. That's what the
young man will tell you. Cahus,
>> he saw it falling. It must have fallen
there by chance after being shot at. I
don't know by whom. But the ship was
already shot down. That's what I know.
That's what I think. That he didn't go
looking there. He just crashed there.
So, the closest place with decent
conditions was there. The other towns
are smaller.
>> Many cities don't even have hospitals.
>> Nowadays, it's a much more developed
place, but back then it had that
hospital, the regional hospital. I want
you to describe the video in as much
detail as you can. And I think this is
important because if a video surfaces,
it should have these details that you're
describing. And that's good
corroboration both for your testimony
and for the veracity of the video.
>> So can you describe the video the the
length and then what happens in the
video?
>> I can. So I went into the room. The
doctor was over here. There was a big
camera which I held in my hand.
It had something like a calculator small
here and then the black and white video.
a being with a slightly larger head
lying down
surgical material. It was like what we
call an amis basin
with a needle holder forceps.
The being lying there
looking at the camera like that
without any sign of suffering
may have taken a minute and a half or
two.
So much so that I thought it might be a
child with Cruzon syndrome
because of the slightly larger head. And
I asked him, "What is this?"
He was beside me. Then he moved over
this way
and he said, "It's right next to me."
From the video, this is what I saw.
Black and white. A child with a larger
head lying down in the same position he
was lying in. head this way, body this
way, long arms,
and very calm. And he was conscious. He
was awake. He had eyes. In the video,
you couldn't see if there were pupils
because it was black and white. Only
that size.
And I don't know who filmed it either
because if he had surgery,
someone else intervened or someone else
filmed it.
>> He wouldn't have had time to film and do
that himself. The surgery itself isn't
shown. what's shown is the being.
>> It was like a post-operative period. It
already happened. He keeps telling me,
"Come see what I did." He didn't do it
in front of me. He did it right there
and then. You understand?
And the material that I saw was this. It
was just a clamp and force as if a
stitch had been done like we do in
emergency rooms. So much so, the
location was improvised. Did you see the
video before or after you saw the being?
>> He showed it to everyone over and over
again.
>> Several times we would go to his house,
he would show us things, other things.
And he would show us watches,
clothes, instruments, blood pressure
monitors.
>> And you did you see the video before or
after you saw the being directly?
I saw the video before and then
immediately afterwards I saw the being.
>> I saw the video before. So that's why I
asked what is this?
>> I thought can it be another case of
Kruzon syndrome?
I imagine so but it wasn't.
>> Did you see the video at his house or
did you see the video in the hospital?
>> I saw the video as soon as I arrived at
the hospital. He called me over and
said, "Come see what I saw. Come see
what I did.
I went down to that area. He showed me
the video
and I said, "Okay." But I didn't
understand what it was. I asked him,
"What's this? Could it be another child
with cruise? We're neurosurgeons, not
cranialacial surgeons that operate
crissons. We do the cranial area. Cruz
are done by other professionals.
They perform that. So I was left
wondering, what did you do? What is
this? Here it is. There was a screen.
>> I don't know if you understood the
sequence.
>> Ah, makes sense. If you
>> Michael, do you have anything?
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm I'm still unclear
as to what exactly the surgery was and
did he did he look at it? And
did you inspect or observe? No.
>> The surgery was on this side.
And I was there. He was here. I couldn't
see this part of him. He was on the
other side from what I understood.
>> And from the materials on the table and
the location, it wasn't a major
neurosurgery operation. Neurosurgery
involves boxes and boxes and boxes of
supplies. There are microscopes,
microscope covers,
and different surgical attire.
Not there. That was a makeshift
procedure location.
That's where he put it together. From
what I understand, he put some stitches
in the creature's head.
>> From the material that I'm seeing
in the video, when I looked at it later,
there was no material left. It was
already clean. It was after the surgery.
I think he only put in a few stitches
because there was a needle holder.
>> Why? Why didn't you look closely? Why
didn't you inspect? because he was here
and I was far away. He was by the wall.
I was over here. I was preoccupied with
other things. As I said,
>> we get worried about whether they're
breathing, whether they're bleeding,
if they're nervous, if they're in pain.
The window was there and he was right
there by the window. I didn't go in
behind it to look at him there.
>> But the other doctor, you did you speak
to him afterwards about what he had
done? No, he said he did a small surgery
and look what I did.
>> But given the location,
everything was for a minor surgery, a
stitch, something like that. They didn't
have the necessary materials.
>> But like, you must have talked to the
other surgeon about what he did to the
alien afterwards.
>> No, he only said, "Look what I did." I
didn't speak to him after about what he
did.
>> I thought it was a valve. I understood
he had put a valve in the being.
>> Then afterwards, I think he put in some
stitches.
That's all. What he did was very vague.
I can't really answer you. It
>> But then he would show the video to
friends and family. Did he tell them?
>> That was in the video I saw.
>> Look what I did. That's what he kept
saying.
>> But did anybody ever go, "What did you
do specifically?" They were mostly from
his family, simpler people.
And the doctors who saw it many times we
many times we didn't even believe it.
We really didn't.
Could it be a hoax?
Could it be a hoax? But how could he put
that together so quickly back then?
I arrive and he already has the being
there and the film ready. I mean, it
wasn't something that was planned. It's
something that happened right there and
then.
>> It's all improvised.
>> All improvised.
>> But didn't but but didn't you like I
mean it seems like you knew him for
years afterwards. I mean didn't you ever
just go what did you do to the alien?
>> Why?
>> Oh, we were very afraid to talk about
it. We don't talk about patients.
Regarding patients, we discuss cases.
When you have a few cases, you talk
about them. When the team is involved,
that's fine. But otherwise, we don't
talk about like I operated on that one.
I got an IV there. I did this over
there. That's not done.
>> And did I understand correctly that when
you arrived at the hospital that there
were that Tivic Globbo was there and
asked you if there was an operation on
the alien? So that means that can you
repeat can you say specifically just
because the details are so interesting
for us. Um did you like you parked your
car, you walk in because there's a
blockade and there's cameras or what
happened there?
I didn't have my car.
>> I had operated and my office was nearby.
I went to write prescriptions, reports.
I didn't see patients. It was mostly
bureaucratic stuff.
>> And I was worried about the boy. When I
returned, it was closed. No cars could
enter. I went in through the pedestrian
area.
And the hospital entrance was there. The
trucks were here. As I arrived, the
reporter came up to me.
with a microphone.
Did you operate on the ET? I don't know
what she's talking about.
>> And I think I think one question I know
that the audience will ask based on
Michael's questions, which I think are
are great, is
>> if you were brought in by Marcos Vinesis
to review the surgery because he's
saying, "You're a more senior guy.
>> You're a more senior neurosurgeon. I
want you to check my work. Why wouldn't
you know the exact nature of that
surgery?
Because I hadn't seen Makuzu yet when
she came in and asked about the alien.
I'm out here. He's in there. There's no
cell phone. I haven't seen Makinus yet.
I don't know what's going on in there.
When I entered the hospital and went
down to the pediatric
>> No, no, no. Not Not from the TV
reporters before. That makes total
sense. I mean generally like now the
specific surgery that was done, why
don't you know those details given that
he was bringing you in to kind of check
his work and review it as a senior
neurosurgeon?
>> But it was to see if the patient was
okay.
>> That was it. Just to see if the patient
was okay.
Was he alive?
He didn't go into detail about the type
of surgery because I think it was
something so simple that he had no
doubts,
just a stitch. He was inexperienced, but
not that inexperienced.
He performed neurological surgery.
He mainly dealt with trauma. Trauma is
the first thing we learned cuz there's
so much trauma in Brazil.
He had no questions. He didn't go to
ask, "Do you think the surgical
technique I used was correct?" No, that
wasn't the point. It was to see if the
being was okay.
If I hadn't gone there,
>> he would have continued seeing patients
there. He was already fine. He didn't
need me. He only asked because he always
asked.
>> It was more of a sign off.
Someone saw it here with me. I didn't do
it alone, but I didn't do anything. I
didn't operate. He did it alone. The
credit is his. Now, I don't know what
happened to him.
And since I thought it was a very simple
question from you,
>> sure,
>> we didn't even talk about it apparently
just to put a stitch in. I wasn't going
to talk about that.
>> Um, but like
>> so he said to you, come see what I did
like he always did because it's a little
strange to be like, I just operated on
an alien. Come see what I did just like
it's a normal thing. Or was he did he
seem like agitated or or upset?
At least I didn't have a sense of it
until I saw it. Until I examined it,
until I calmed down, that's when it
started to dawn on me that it was a
different being. Until then, we view
them as patients at risk of death.
You see this as a risk of emergency.
When he called me, it even distracted me
from there. And we I was in a hurry to
see the other one. Then and there I
realized there was no reason to rush.
He had already done it. The whole issue
of it being an extraterrestrial,
all of that that came up later,
>> but at the time you don't grasp the full
extent of it. I know I didn't.
>> The dimension of that one day I would be
here talking to you.
>> But it seems like the next time you saw
him, wouldn't you have been like, "Dude,
what was that all about?" Like
>> forever. And you get you had that
conversation and what was that like?
>> Sure, but not at the moment it happened.
>> What with Mas? No. Average patient.
>> But afterwards, when when did you first
talk to the other surgeon about what you
had both what about the aliens?
>> I only spoke with Marvin Vinesus. We
have other neurosurgeons there and I
don't know if they saw it or if they
talked to him.
>> But it was that sort of thing that you
don't go into detail about.
You don't speculate. If it were today,
my god. What did you do? What stitch did
you use? What kind of thread? But that
was never the point of discussion. He
tended to the being. It's alive. Okay.
Next.
>> It just seems uh I think it's it's
shocking in the sense that it seems like
you were treating it like a normal
patient when it was completely alien.
Is it just you were is that just because
you were in a particular you did you
process it later or
>> you don't have all this awareness that
you were having that I'm having now.
>> We never imagined we'd be talking about
this on television. It was like a
medical secret that happened period.
Nobody will talk about it anymore
cuz it's dangerous to talk about it. So
it's like when you say this patient has
leukemia or when for the first time HIV
emerged, you don't keep saying that
patient is HIV positive. Does that
patient have HIV? No.
You write it down.
>> So sort of a culture of discretion.
Discretion like you're using a lot of
discretion and secrecy is because it's
private.
>> Is that why?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. There's an ethics committee.
There's the CRM, regional medical
council. There's the police. There's the
press.
Anything you say about someone's family
member.
>> Oh, he said my relative has cancer.
>> I'm not going around saying that. What
do you think? I don't think anything.
the TV reporter that was out front. Did
you are you confident that they were
with TV Globbo
>> or could it have been a different
>> Did you know who it was?
>> Do you know who the reporter was?
>> I'm sure because it was written there
and I always gave interviews to them
about vaccines, about menitis.
>> Do you know was it a woman or a man?
>> A woman.
>> Do you remember what she looked like?
>> Brunette.
>> Uh medium stature, brown dress.
And I didn't curse because it was Global
TV. You operated on ET.
>> Do you know who told her?
>> No idea.
>> I didn't swear.
>> Not because I'm very polite. No.
>> But I thought at the time if I swear
here and it comes out on global.
If a doctor gets a bad reputation that
he's rude, he's crazy and in the
countryside that makes a difference.
>> And but was she waiting when you left
the hospital? Were there any other media
there when you left?
>> There was. there was. And I just said to
her, I thought she was talking about the
boy
because I was taking offense on behalf
of the boy.
But I said, "That's not how you talk
about people." And I moved on. I didn't
finish the sentence.
I said, "What a lack of
respect." Did you
>> got in my car?
When you saw this alien being in the
room, did you make the connection with
the TV with the TV global reporter in
her question? You say, "Oh, that's was
must have been what she was asking
about." No.
>> Oh, yes. Later. Right.
>> Later.
>> Later. I said she was right. Yeah.
>> Uh, did did the hospital ever take
administrative action against you
because of your speaking out about this
after 2023?
>> No, they just prohibited me from filming
inside. And that's right, because once I
filmed, I went into the maternity ward
with James in the room where it was.
They reprimanded me because I shouldn't
have done that. They were right. The
hospital is right about that to film
something inside the hospital. That's
why the hospital management had
permission because there are other
patients, right? It could have happened
that I saw another patient, something
like that. The hospital management is
right. It was the only time. But they
treat me very well.
>> When Marcos Venus would show the video,
how did he do that? Did he show it on
the TV? Did he show it? Did he h Did he
have the camera at home? Did he put a VC
a VHS in the VCR
>> at home on his computer? They would come
into the room, sit on the sofa. He would
sit in front of the computer and maybe a
CD or a tape, but I think it was a CD
because he would show it repeatedly
sometimes.
>> So people would come over and he go,
"Here's my nice watches and here's my
alien video."
>> He showed other cases. He showed other
cases.
>> Other cases.
>> We'd arrive at his house and he'd put on
a show.
>> Yeah. Look at this watch. Look at this
gadget I bought to measure god knows
what. Look at this stethoscope right
here.
>> Lots of souvenirs you buy online, right?
>> Look at this Brightling. Brightling and
Omegas, too.
>> He gave them away to a lot of people.
I even my wife says I used to argue with
him a lot
>> because he had a stent put in his heart
>> and smoking
and buying watches.
There was a time
>> why was he able to I mean Brightling
Omega those are expensive watches.
>> So expensive.
>> How did he have that much money?
Neurosurgeons at one time made a lot of
money because back then you could
operate and when the patients stayed in
different accommodations you could
operate and charge for a different
accommodation. That's how I built my
house.
But at another time he had a daughter.
He started spending money on raceh
horses.
>> You know what?
I bought a horse.
Mhm.
>> And my daughter loves them. It's a
different kind of money.
>> Mhm.
>> And now we're paying for it to stay on a
breeding farm.
>> Mhm.
>> With four stances in your chest.
>> That's what I'd say. With four stances
in your chest.
>> Can I talk to you? Better not.
My wife used to say, "Stop arguing with
Marcus Vinesus,
but he smokes. He bought a horse."
>> Do you know if Marcos Vinesis ever told
his wife or his daughter anything about
his experience? And did he speculate
about this alien being himself in his
private life?
>> He did. Sure.
That I can't answer. His wife is a
wonderful person, but she's a simple
person. I like her very much. Her name
is Rosalin.
However, I also adopted a slightly more
rational stance. When she came to talk
to me, she had a bracelet,
earrings. I'd say, "For the love of God,
walking around like that, you'll get
mugged. You'll get ripped off. You'll
get slapped. Oh my." My wife said, "Stop
saying that to them.
I used to say Makis is dead. He gave you
these things. But he's dead. You need to
invest that money. You have a daughter.
He didn't leave a very large insurance
policy.
You know what I mean? So be careful.
Did you speak to anybody else in
Virginia or in the hospital who was face
tof face with the being and compare your
experience with their experience and and
if so what are those details from what
from what they experienced?
>> No, I I never talked about any of this
at the hospital. Nowadays, when I talk
about it at the hospital, many people
say that the room was really locked,
that this really happened here because
on that day, people can find details of
what they saw.
But it's like when James' team was in
Brazil.
They're getting people to tell the story
to incentivize people like me to speak.
And they put the pieces together
because nobody saw everything, right?
Each one of us saw part of it.
I saw a piece of it. I'm completely
opening my heart. I'm even talking about
Hosian's things. I hope she forgives me
when she hears this. I don't want to
offend anyone, you know,
>> but this shows you the level of intimacy
involved. But they don't say what kind
of surgery it was.
>> There are two other colleagues that I
haven't spoken to about this.
>> But does anybody else say I looked the
being in the eyes and it felt like an
angel. It felt non-judgmental,
peaceful, loving. Anybody else that you
>> Not that I know of. No, not to my
knowledge. That was my impression at
that moment. You know,
>> has this experience made you more
religious in any way? More more
spiritual
>> bit more realistic, you know,
a little more realistic
because I'm already pretty old. I won't
be around for long.
>> So, mainly to give hope to you younger
people that yes, it is possible whether
you believe it or not. There are beings
that are different from us.
And
I had a great pleasure getting to know
America here. I found it very beautiful.
I love Americans.
>> You saved us in the World Wars. I love
Americans. I had a 48 Jeep from the war.
>> In memory of the war. I really like
American soldiers.
Extremely trustworthy. And I really like
the stories when Americans return from
the war and reunite with their families.
Those testimonies, those scenes are very
beautiful.
>> I thank America for being here and God
save America.
>> If you had unlimited resources and money
and you knew that there'd be no negative
repercussions,
what would you do to get your hands on
this video?
What would be the first action steps for
finding it?
>> I'd go back to his place and I'd have to
go through everything once again. And I
would need to hear this story about the
robbery because some of his watches were
stolen from his house and he had a
cabinet in the corner of his room at the
back where he kept his watches, where he
kept his CDs, his souvenirs. You know,
that's probably where he put it.
She lives in the same house.
>> She lives there.
>> But about the robbery that happened
there. I'd need to talk to her.
>> I heard that many of his watches were
stolen, but I didn't go there. I never
went back to his house again.
There must have been during like from
1996 until when you started talking
about this in 1993 or sorry in 2023 you
must have people in town must have
talked about this or you heard you were
there when he showed these videos and
these conversations were happening. What
kind of conversations did you hear
people talking about in relationship to
Vargia and what was or in relation to
the alleged um alien and what was your
own like response to did you feel like I
should be you're like worried or how
what was that experience like hearing
other people talk about far
>> I work in the ICU and there are nurses
who know the girls that saw it volia
and they say that most of them
So there are nurses who know the girls
who saw the extraterrestrial. They've
had it rough
because they're criticized. They had to
change schools because of bullying.
>> Nobody made any money from this. They
remain in the same city giving the same
testimony.
They weren't able to get their passports
approved to come here because they don't
have stable jobs, right?
They have simple jobs, you know, but the
three of them stick to it the same.
There's no reason to talk about this if
it weren't for that.
>> Oh, I won this, I won that. They've been
promised a lot, but they they've been
persuaded to change their stories to say
they didn't see anything.
You know, I met them the other day. We
talked about the same thing. The
difficult part isn't telling the story.
The difficult part is being accused of
lying, hearing that none of it happened,
accused of making it up just to get on
TV. We had dinner together. It's the
same thing. It's not It's what we had to
endure to get to this point. You'll hear
other testimonies.
People don't believe it.
They have every right to. Of course,
it's something that changes everything.
But would you and how would you describe
your own reasons for staying quiet for
so long? Were you just afraid of people
making fun of you? Were you afraid of
being fired? Like what was the core
fears or what or I guess what prevented
you from speaking out until now?
>> To this day
because we have jobs. We don't have any
other source of income. It's the
everyday work. It's being on call.
>> A lot of allnighters, very little sleep,
car bills, cell phone bills. school
tuition fees for our kids. The greatest
fear is because people really come down
hard on us.
>> What do you hope for the world to
understand through your testimony? And
why are you coming forward now and in
the United States?
>> That is a wonderful question. What I
think they come to tell us is peace.
Because we live in this world in a tiny
piece of the Milky Way on the periphery
of the Milky Way, right? And we fight
all the time. We mistreat our neighbors,
our brothers. I'm not trying to make a
religious speech. I'm not religious at
that level,
but so that we respect each other more.
As Freud said, if we're going to
coexist, we're going to have to agree on
what to do.
And there are bishops that said I should
talk to the pope. But talk to him about
what?
>> Is he going to excommunicate me? There's
no need to. There's more to it. In my
father's house, there are many mansions.
>> So that's the risk of being exposed by a
media that's much more powerful than us.
>> It crushes us.
They'll spin a a narrative that destroys
you. Your career destroys you as a
person. They destroy
your morale, your self-esteem. It's very
easy and very dangerous to talk about
this.
Just as there are people who like it,
there are people who don't. To many
people, it's of no interest to them. It
ruins their business.
Right? It ruins various types of
religions that say that we're the center
of the universe. It ruins everything.
It's something not worth believing in.
But for some people, it's good
>> to see that there's so much more.
So much more. We need to evolve a lot
regarding We've evolved a lot from a
technological point of view, but very
little from a social point of view.
Very little.
>> Do you have any information on the
alien's condition when it was taken to
the hospital?
Exactly. What it was was it bleeding or
was was anything, you know, occurring
with the body specifically?
>> No, there isn't. But the story I know is
that if it went to the hospital, it was
an emergency. They thought of taking it
to the zoo.
That's the story. They would take it to
the zoo as if it were an animal,
but then they took it to the hospital.
If my colleague took it there and
stitched it up, it's because he must
have been bleeding heavily. Blood is
what scares lay people, right? It scares
all of us, of course, but if it's
bleeding
then, so if it went there and was taken
quickly to that place, it must have been
bleeding. That's what I think.
Otherwise, it didn't need to be there.
It was breathing normally.
It wasn't in a coma.
It wasn't intubated
because critical patients get intubated.
They get an IV drip. It didn't even have
an IV drip. Nothing had been injected
into it.
You see,
all I had was what would eventually
happen. As I described, putting in
stitches. That's why I think they took
it to the hospital and then took it
away. Are you familiar with any
colleagues, friends, other witnesses who
experienced the so-called men in black
phenomenon of somebody coming up to them
and telling them they can't speak
publicly about this or again bribes,
>> no threats, anything like that?
>> No, there is one
from the but it was regarding the
>> police officer
and there's a report from the officer
who saw
a dead being.
I saw a living being. I was talking to
Dr. Carl just now.
He was saying that they have a lot of
descriptions, a lot of things. He
separated them very well. Physics and
biology. He's a physicist.
This is a physical and biological
matter. He says when a living being is
involved, it changes our conversation.
Right.
>> So I invited him to go there. Right. He
can stay at my house for as many years
as he wants
>> to do research there. There's a project
to research the place there where it
was, you know, where they appeared. It's
a vacant lot that's still there today in
Vaja. The land is fenced off, but there
are visitations.
The story goes that JJ Bonitez went
there and collected soil to see if there
was any radioactive material. There's
the testimony of the guy who saw the uh
the spacecraft, picked up a piece with
his hand. Very interesting as well.
That's it. How many witnesses do you
know personally?
And I realize you're estimating. You
don't have to come up with the exact
number on the spot, but
>> many people
when you talk about it, everyone has a
story to tell.
>> I also saw it. I also had an
opportunity. I play countless people say
it saying that Bobby Fischer saw it. I
was talking about Carl.
Bobby Fischer was tired of saying that
the Russians did this to him.
Bobby Fischer, look it up. That he would
play and they would come in and there
were gurus, Russian parasychologists
influencing that a person made a move,
but it was a computerenerated move and
they were in 74.
I study a lot. I played chess. I almost
played professionally.
He says that all the time. an impossible
move, a god move. They'd say, "Ah, he
did that because the people used to meet
in that room. The Russians would meet in
that room."
And in doing that, he already had a
certain computer, some kind of
calculation, even those calculations
from that wartime coding. And they would
play around with it. And another thing,
they had studied my games. They had all
my statistics. They even knew what I was
going to do down to the 10th round. And
he was alone.
He had asberers.
He was a genius. One of the greatest
geniuses here in America.
>> So, what's the connection between Bobby
Fischer and
>> the witnesses? Yeah.
>> Yeah. The contacts. Oh, in chess.
Several people have already seen it. I
have a very large group. They say
they've already seen it. There's a lot
here on my phone. I've seen it, too.
I've seen it, too. I've seen it, too.
people who play the piano. I've seen it,
too. I've seen it, too. I play a little,
too. Those online forums a lot. I've
seen it, too.
>> I've got it right here.
>> People who play chess say they saw
>> chess. People play chess.
>> They say they saw the human beings.
>> The people who play piano,
>> you know,
>> I've seen it. I've seen it coming out of
the piano.
>> It's funny. I just interviewed a guy who
is president of the World Chess
Federation. for 20 years and his name is
Kanan Il Yum Xenov and he's a president
of a Russian republic and he was one of
the last guys to play chess with Bobby
Fischer after Bobby Fischer had already
retired he was kind of paranoid and um
he says and you know this is the he says
he first of all he said he was abducted
by aliens or taken by aliens invited
onto a spaceship while he was sitting
president of his Russian Republic of
Kelikia in 1997 so a year after your
experience. And uh he also says that and
this is the more speculative part of the
interview. He says that the game of
chess comes from aliens and I I don't
>> Well, can I go a little further?
>> Yeah.
>> I won't do an interview.
>> Go. Yeah.
>> In order to talk about this, I wrote a
short story.
How could I examine the ET if I didn't
have a CT scan? if I didn't have
anything. So, it's a chess game called
the universal,
which is a chess game.
>> It's not my invention. It's Adriano
Caldier, the Brazilian champion.
It's his invention since I had no way of
testing the ET.
We took him to a place and played chess.
So, I didn't need to make the move. He
already knew the move.
So you so you wrote a you wrote a short
story about the alien already knowing
how to play chess intuitively. Yeah.
Fascinating.
>> The whole story is there. You just need
to know how to play chess. My story is
there.
>> It's written down right there.
>> Very amazing. Yeah. I don't know what to
make of it, you know. So, um, he also
told the story of one of the greatest
chess players, you know, playing a
simulation or something before he was
about to play a big tournament and the
the moves made themselves and he
attributed it to some sort of alien
intervention, but all of this is very
speculative. Dr. Italo,
>> look it up.
>> James has it. The universal chess game.
Fantastic.
>> Ah, I'd love to read it. Amazing.
Well, Dr.
Venturelli, I'm so grateful for you
coming to the United States and giving
your testimony. Thank you to Michael
Shelonburgger, guest co-host on American
Alchemy, who's remarkably proficient in
Portuguese.
>> And um I I really hope you gave a lot of
details here
>> that people can be skeptical, but you
gave details that my hope is are
corroborated in the future. Let's try to
find this reporter from, you know,
Brazil, from Virginia. Uh, uh, was it
Tbe Globbo?
>> Yeah.
>> And then, uh, let's also try to find
this video and, uh, try to find more
corroboration because as far as
background and pedigree and, you know,
no incentive to lie, all of those things
go, like, you're pretty as good as it
gets in my book. And
>> thank you.
>> Yeah. I just I I'm very I'm very
grateful. So, thank you so much for for
doing this.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Hi, my name is Jose Marcus Mora. Uh, I'm
a cardiologist from Virginia, but I now
nowadays I'm I'm still in S. Paulo and I
I I met Dr. Italo since I was a a child.
He's a very serious guy, very serious
man. And I believe in his
in in his history about the ver at of
Virgin because he's a very serious man
and I really uh believed in him.
>> And you have another friend who's a
doctor.
>> Oh yes. And I have another friend uh his
his name was uh Fernando Jane.
Unfortunately, he died in 2003 uh 2015
and uh um he told me he was passed in
the hospital regional in Virginia and he
saw the foot of the of the creature only
this because the the there's a a lot of
military persons around around there and
they they They they uh asked him to oh
go away please go away and don't don't
stay here. And he he uh the only thing
that he told me uh before he died was
that he really saw the the fit of the
creature in the regional uh emergence
and uh I believe him because he was a
very nice guy a very serious guy too.
That's that's what I have to say.
>> Roughly three hours after the girls
witnessed the strange creature, military
police officers Eric Lopes and Marco
Cherzi drive down this road on the
lookout for something unusual
when suddenly it runs right across their
path.
It was captured by March with his bare
hands easily and take it to the
hospital.
Apart from secondhand rumors of what
took place inside the hospital made by
anonymous sources, little is known about
what happened to the alleged alien. The
driver, Eric Lopes, has been in hiding
and the officer who handled the live
being, Marcos Charice, died a couple of
weeks later.
>> So, who are you? What's your name? And
what's your background? professionally
and your education.
>> My name is Ahmed Foratu.
I'm a forensic physician, which is
forensic medicine. I'm a public health
physician. I'm an occupational
physician, and I also have a bachelor's
degree in law.
>> I'm married to a Peruvian psychoanalyst
and have two daughters who are also
doctors. First of all, I would like to
thank you for your invitation and
congratulate you on your audience, I
confess that in hundreds of interviews
I've given throughout my life,
I've never initially participated in a
prayer
before beginning an interview, as you
did with all of us present here. So, may
God bless us. Jesus Christ said, "I am
the way, the light, the truth, and the
life." So, may we be blessed in this
interview, and may we bring the truth
here.
>> Amen. Well said. Um, let me ask you on
the day January 1996,
you lived in Virginia, obviously I want
to speak to you about the autopsy of
Marco Sharesi,
but on the day or the week of what had
happened, had you heard of anything
going on in Virginia when it came to
UFOs,
alien entities being treated at the
hospital, anything like that?
When the body of soldier Makizi arrived,
there was no mention of contact with
extraterrestrials.
The body was sent for autopsy for
investigation into a possible
professional error.
because he was a soldier in the state
military police of Mineris
and because he had an infection, it
seems that a drainage procedure, a small
surgery was performed by a doctor within
the military police battalion. And
because the illness progressed very
rapidly, very abruptly in a few days,
the commanding colonel of the military
police
requested an investigation into the
cause of death of that soldier.
to improve the investigation because he
didn't understand how a military police
doctor could let a soldier die.
We did the autopsy. There was an
incision wound.
It was probably a drainage procedure for
an infection, a boil, an infection in
the
left armpit area.
And this was the only lesion that was
found.
We collected blood samples,
fragments of liver, stomach and lung
tissue and sent them to the laboratory
of Antonio
a renowned pathologist in our city who
was also a forensic pathologist in
Hujane but in Vah he worked as a
pathologist.
He had his own laboratory
and is a very well-known scientific
figure in Brazil.
Dranini issued a report stating that he
died
from a
pulmonary infection that caused
septasemia
which is a generalized infection.
Regarding the bacteria that were found,
I'm leaving Dotoini's report here for
you.
And
what we have recently learned
is that this soldier may have
participated in the capture of an
extraterrestrial being.
And also personally reports to all of us
said recently
last year that the bacteria found in the
material
examined in the laboratory
is not common
in our country
and that the bacteria was extremely
virulent
and which are very progressive,
deviating from the norm of everyday
practice in Brazilian medicine
and that he did not rule out given the
circumstances that had come to him that
the bacterium could be an alien
bacterium.
So I'm saying here that I personally
haven't had contact with
extraterrestrials.
Neither has Dr. Janini. But the bacteria
found in the soldier
is leading us to this conclusion
indeed because Maric's
sister said that he had contact with an
ET from Vine.
So
we have a new situation today
after 30 yearsini
is suggesting
and requesting authorization from the
court. It's not easily done. The first
difficulty is getting the court to
approve the exumation of the solders's
remains of soldier Eli Shiz's remains
and whether the family would agree to it
to investigate if possible
DNA testing to better study the bacteria
that caused this infection in such a
young soldier
who had vigor and was healthy.
Dr. Amando, sorry to interrupt. I want
to just ask you point blank.
What do you think caused this infection?
Do you personally believe that Marco
Sharesi apprehended this alien being and
it he received an infection from it that
is more exotic than any sort of
infection that a person would get
through something more ordinary?
>> The infection he had
is extremely rare, not impossible,
but its virulence and severity caught
the attention.
A scratch or some sort of contact with
an extraterrestrial
shouldn't be ruled out.
I would say that the first possibility,
the first diagnostic hypothesis is still
a secondary effect of surgery,
an infection in the axillary skin
region, hydrodenitis,
but also as a second hypothesis given
the circumstances I've heard from the
testimony of Dr.
the recent anatomathological evaluation
by Dr. Maku Janini and the history of
Mic's sister.
One should consider the possibility of
post contact contamination with an
extraterrestrial during a military
police operation. Him being a soldier in
the Mina Jedi state military police.
>> Is there any other plausible story? Had
he received surgery before this happened
at all?
>> No.
He was a vigorous and healthy soldier
who a few days prior
had a skin lesion drained at the
military police medical clinic.
And it's possible that the infection
spread. That's the first hypothesis. But
the second is that he contracted the
infection from a scratch, from contact
with an extraterrestrial being. I say
this after so many years based on the
testimony I'll say it again based on
Doto Janini's new testimony from a
laboratory standpoint anatomathological
standpoint from the testimony of Maric's
sister and also from the account of the
Toita Luelli who claims to have seen the
ET at the regional hospital in southern
Miner. How many weeks between Marco
Sharesi transporting this alien being
and him passing away and you doing the
autopsy? How many weeks?
>> I don't have the exact dates for the
supposed operation and infection. I know
he had an outpatient surgical procedure
not in a hospitalenzi
at the military police battalion on an
outpatient basis but that this infection
lasted around 12 or 14 days. He went
through three or four doctors
complaining about lumbocyatica, a kind
of back pain,
and then taking antibiotics and
anti-inflammatory drugs. But the
infection spread and developed into
septasemia causing death from
generalized infection, pneumonia, and
septasemia.
Had he told anybody else at the
hospital? I think what's happened to me
is actually from this ET that I had to
deal with. Did he tell anybody else
this?
>> No. From what I've seen, only his sister
suspects he had contact with her.
>> But no doctor. I only received a body
without a history to investigate.
whether there was professional error or
negligence,
anything, any malpractice on the part of
a fellow doctor.
What about Cesario, the cardiologist?
Dr. Zadu was on duty at the medical
service that operated like an emergency
room
and the soldier had been there a few
days, not sure if it was two or three
times complaining of back pain which was
actually an infection that was
progressing
treated him like that. I don't know if
it was once, twice or three times and
also confirms albeit indirectly that the
infection was indeed surprising and
progressed in a very abrupt very rapid
manner.
>> I I believe Cesario said that um
essentially Marco Sharesi had been
telling him over and over again that
this was actually a possibly from this
ET being that he had apprehended. But I
think this is from
>> cuz he goes he goes yeah he said that
you know this stuff had happened because
he was concerned about saving his own
life according to his sister.
>> Yeah.
>> So he's like he said it and then he goes
according to his sister. I was like
okay.
>> Yeah.
>> If I was dying I'd be like here's what
happened. I don't know. But
>> yeah very very interesting. And what
which hospital is this that you were at
where you did the autopsy? The coroner's
office, which in Brazil is called EML,
the Forensic Medical Institutes,
is linked to the civil police of the
states and provinces, and it's the
criminal investigation police that
investigates
crimes,
preparing police reports,
which are handled by the chiefs of
police. So in this exceptional case, a
commander of the military police
barracks opened a military police
investigation because the lieutenant
doctor who performed the surgery, the
drainage was part of the medical staff.
As a private civilian who I'm sure has
many friends in Virginia, did you hear
other stories just organically come up
around people seeing crafts or bodies or
anything like that?
>> Yes. If you walk throughout the city,
there are always reports of people who
have seen spaceships. People who have
seen
lights in the sky moving quickly,
just like
spaceships,
but sometimes they're confused with
comets. Other times they're drones. But
in Brazil, it's a country that receives
many visits from these objects.
It's a privileged country in that sense.
>> But there are always reports and the
more you talk about it the more people
hear about it and start saying asu said
very well now people are starting to
talk about it more frequently. You know,
>> if you had to put a number on the amount
of friends or even just people you've
encountered who've witnessed either the
UFO or the body,
what number would you put? And I realize
that I'm putting you on the spot here
and that it doesn't have to be an exact
perfect number. very few friends because
for example Kahus
who said he saw the craft
with a very strong and trustworthy
testimony he doesn't live in Vaj unlike
who we're familiar with as doctors
person with credibility
with a history of many years of service
to neurology to brain surgery in Vajin
and nearby towns people with a
reputation. So their testimonies are
very powerful and which makes me give
credibility to the possibility brought
up by Janini
that this bacteria that was found with
the soldier
whether it's alien
this backs the testimony of the girls
who are now ladies in Vaj who are also
reputable people and it makes one
believe in the testimony of Kylo himself
who saw the craft
today just this morning talking to and
this is forever is listening at home
with the scientist Mr.
Howal right how put off
>> who has various studies in the field of
physics in the
>> I mean he's a born scientist provides
services to various entities I made the
suggestion
wants to investigate this bacterium if
possible in the remains of
better investigate this bacterium
whether it may have been combined with a
bacterium from another planet in the
universe outside planet Earth. But the
location where the spacecraft is
believed to have crashed also needs to
be studied because metallic residues
things that are not common in our
universe
should be studied more thoroughly. And
that's why I asked Dr. Janini today was
in talks with other scientist friends
about the possibility of undertaking the
study or not.
Because the listener here wants the
truth. He expects the truth from us. We
have no vested interest. Our only
interest here is to tell the truth. We
are very small in this universe.
There's so much to be discovered out
there. And from what we feel, from what
to perceived,
extraterrestrials
are at peace. They live in peace.
They're curious, but they live in peace
and can contribute a lot to us. So,
since man has reached the moon, why not
advance a little further?
And of course, it's no longer just the
Vaheen ET. He is a Brazilian ET, an
American ET, a Chinese ET, a Russian ET.
He belongs to all of us, to the planet.
And why not investigate this better for
euphology to advance further, right?
Even recently, didn't you speak to
friends who had seen the craft?
>> There are people who have seen things
like that.
>> When James Fox returns to Vaj, I'll
introduce him to another three or four
people who report having seen
spaceships,
lights.
Now, you see the difference, right? Some
say the spaceship had lights. Our
professor here who gave the testimony,
Galus,
>> said it was tubular and didn't have
lights, right?
>> So, there are things that sometimes
involve two spaceships, you know.
>> So, the the witnesses are that common,
though, like like James, how many
witnesses do you think you've spoken to
total?
>> Well, when I went downtown to the town
square,
I found a number of people that either
saw I mean, within an hour
>> Yeah. Yeah,
>> I probably had 12 different people
saying different things. One of them saw
excessive couple of them saw excessive
military activity they'd never seen
before. Military trucks everywhere.
>> If you were to add up everybody though
and put an approximate number on it,
>> oh god.
>> And and and a witness is anybody who's
seen a ship or an alien body.
>> Ship or alien body? Uh ship maybe
12 to 15. I met another one recently who
said it's out over the hospital. maybe
15. And then the alien body, I think
it's up to five.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> It's pretty amazing.
>> Yeah. And one of one of the chief of
police.
>> I don't know any other case where you
have that many witnesses.
>> And the three girls, Italo, well, the
nurse, that would have been six. So, it
could be six that saw the Yeah. Can you
speak a little bit to Itello's
credentials and and kind of Bonafid's
background because I think having a
neurosurgeon come forward and say he was
face to face with an alien being for
three to four minutes is just going to
be a so earthshattering for so many
people, but b I think very hard for them
to compete and I think they're going to
often try to throw the kitchen sink of
skepticism against this case.
What's your experience of Italoo and
what do you know about him and his
reputation and his skills as a
neurosurgeon?
>> Is a very experienced doctor
has a lot of credibility,
very honorable
to give this recent account of having
personally seen and witnessed
an extraterrestrial.
And one of the reasons I'm here is
because he's the one who gave the
testimony.
So I trust in him. Now, of course, it's
not common. Maybe if it were me on that
day that I had seen the ET, I would have
told my wife, my colleagues would have
called the hospital and said, "Look at
this. How interesting." Each with their
own reasons,
each with their own particularities and
singularities.
And I respect that. I don't depend on a
private practice to make a living.
>> He's a neurologist with a private
practice.
And this could really be a reason for
losing clients in a private practice.
With people thinking he was crazy that
he was seeing things, it could harm him
professionally and he justified his
reasons.
So that's plausible. It's
understandable, but it's not common. I
think perhaps most doctors or any
citizen would have said,
>> "Look, folks, there was a different
situation today inside the hospital,
>> but we have to respect it." And Mar
Marco Sharesi's family to this day
maintains that his injury was probably
due to an alien being and that he was
saying towards the end of his life
constantly that he was worried that he
was sick because he had apprehended this
being and held him and apparently the
the alien was full of kind of this
greasy oily substance and that might
have gotten gotten onto him and he was
he was asking questions about what might
occur if you come into contact with that
because he was not feeling well.
>> So his sister's testimony
regarding the virolence of the bacteria,
this leads us to believe that he may
have participated in an operation to
capture the CT.
But that's not what I received through
the colonel who requested the autopsy.
He's a forensic doctor. But years later,
that's what has been reaching us. And
there are testimonies saying that from
sister
and also because of the evidence
regarding the characteristics of the
bacteria that was found in the soldier
and uh new reassessment by
what did the colonel say when he tked
you to do the autopsy? What did he share
with you about the details?
He didn't speak to me. The request was
for a written coroner autopsy of the
soldier
and it's not common for someone who
normally requests an autopsy to be a
police chief. It arrived and they can
also request it just as the public
prosecutor's office can request it for
an autopsy. We performed the autopsy,
awaited the lab tests and about 20 days
later we released the report after the
material from Lotojanini arrived. But I
didn't speak with the commander of the
military police. The autopsy was done to
investigate an error, a supposed
professional error which was later not
proven. Professional error. It was a
progression of the medical complication.
The doctor who performed this minor
procedure,
an excellent professional, has a very
good reputation in the city. There were
no complications. The progression of the
disease was extremely unfavorable.
>> Tell tell me about Dr. Janini and his
background. And I think a lot of people
found it very powerful in James' movie
when you have a guy who's kind of known
as the godfather of medical science in
the local region and he's coming out and
he's speculating. He literally says he
thinks that a puncture wound from the
nail of the ET is what caused Marco
Shares's death.
>> He sent it and I've already left it with
you signed.
He couldn't be here today because of
health issues. He's almost 90 years old,
but he's keeping up to speed with us and
made it a point to send a signed and
authenticated document so it could be
read and I already left it to your care.
But who is Duttoin? He arrived in Vahina
about 50 years ago, probably
45 or 50 years ago. He came from Hujane
in Brazil. He was a university
professor,
a pathologist
and a forensic doctor in the state of
Hij Janeu. He arrived in Vah and set up
a diagnostic and laboratory service
proputic institute
which serves practically 90% of its
patients through the SUS the unified
health system. He serves the public
health service. He's a reference for
doctors working in the public health
system. Today he and his son along with
their entire staff serve more than 100
cities in the region.
So he is a reference in quality. I'm not
going to advertise but it's true. He's a
man unconcerned with monetary values. He
values quality in his work as a
scientist seeking excellence in care and
quality. And for us doctors he always
has been and still is a reference
because he is a true scientist. And in
this case, every time it was me,
Joseand,
the forensic doctors there, when we had
a more delicate case, when we had
doubts, we would call him and he'd be
very willing because Vahin is a small
town. Everything is nearby. I'll be
there in 10 minutes. I'll assist with
the autopsy. And he would assist, which
sometimes meant performing the
procedure, collecting materials. said
he'd take them to his laboratory and
giving the results in a week and
sometimes during the autopsy itself
during the examination as a great
pathologist he would already give
diagnosis. So not only in forensic
medicine and in the area of autopsies,
laboratories, biopsies, he's a huge
reference. So he has our respect and we
are very grateful to him. The doctors of
AA have great respect and gratitude for
Jean Bachista.
Was there anything else about the body
outside of the bizarre bacteria and
Marco Sharesi's stated story that he
kept repeating with his family that
makes you think maybe there was some
alien involvement? Was there a smell to
it? Was there was there anything else
about it?
>> I hadn't met the soldier when he was
alive. The first time I saw him, it was
a body ready to be autopsied. I never
met him. I did meet some relatives, but
not him. I had never seen him.
But the sister's testimony,
which is questionable, it said that
maybe he spoke to the doctors who tended
to him
at the hospital, but I don't have the
testimony of those doctors that tended
to him. But I heard his sister saying
which was recorded recently that he was
indeed involved in the capture of the
ET.
So it's a puzzle. There are several
moments we have there. People close to
Vaheen who saw
a ship the size of a bus heading towards
the city in those days. For instance,
take the testimony of the girls who saw
the ET during the day. Today they're
ladies.
It's been 30 years. There were girls
then. Today they are ladies. You see the
testimony of Professor Kahus, a
geography teacher who gives a powerful
account of having actually
seen the spacecraft and its wreckage and
that he even touched it, but the police
took it from him and ordered it handed
over to the army. You also see the
testimony of the Toalu.
So this makes us believe in fact in the
existence of extraterrestrials on earth.
Not the vajet but this is a subject that
interests the United States, Japan,
Brazil, China, Russia. It's a matter of
greater interest to humanity. We have to
search more and advance further.
Have you done any thinking about
theoretically why this bacteria
would look like bacteria occasionally
found from wounds or or occasionally
found in animals and pets uh but is very
rare in humans and very rare to kill a
human and to be so virulent. Do you ever
think about, you know, if these beings
are coming from, you know, thousands of
light years away, why they would contain
any sort of bacteria that might match
ours? Have you gone that far in your
thinking?
>> That's an interesting question. This
bacteria exists on Earth. It's extremely
rare, but it exists to our knowledge,
this type of staflocus.
But also the soldier, I mean the alien
or extraterrestrial
came into contact with animals at the
zoo in Vahin. Some dead animals were
found at the zoo. I wasn't aware of this
at the time that some dead animals were
found at the zoo.
Which begs the question, could it be
that the extraterrestrial could have
been contaminated coming in contact with
the animals and then being captured by
the soldier and therefore the soldier
being contaminated by the
extraterrestrial with the bacteria that
was in some zoo animal? Or is the
bacteria in fact alien? You know, that's
why we're asking, and I brought this up
with Dr. How this morning, that the CIA,
NASA should support us with all the
knowledge they already possess, with all
their wisdom, technology, and diagnostic
capabilities. Brazilian medicine is very
advanced, but American medicine also has
its particularities. Perhaps the two of
them together could conduct a more
thorough scientific study of this
bacteria if the exumation is authorized
and also of the material that must have
residues where the spacecraft fell. I
posed this challenge to Dr. How asking
you, the American people, to help us.
Who told you about the ET's interaction
with animals at the zoo?
>> This is already public knowledge. This
has already been reported. James Fox
should know about it. Yeah,
>> I don't know which animal died. Maybe
James Fox maybe knows there were animals
that died at the zoo during that week.
>> Who? So, James, I'm curious. Do you know
what the nature of that interaction was?
>> I don't think I included that part in
the film because there's so many
different aspects. There were sightings
later. There were like now I I'm coming
to the conclusion I think there were
like a lot more beings than what were
initially reported that we're seeing.
>> And what what did you hear about the
beings? Well, we interviewed the the I
guess what do you call a zoologologist
or the guy that Yeah.
>> Yeah. Or a zookeeper maybe.
>> Yeah. He was a little more than that.
>> So, okay. Zoologologist would be like
the scientist.
>> Yeah. And he talked about that their
cause of death was completely unknown.
Never seen anything like it. He said it
all on camera. Marco Le could tell you
more.
>> But do we do we know anything about like
the specific animals that the ET
interacted with? Was it a cattle
mutilation situation? Were they like
playing in a play pen or something? or
they were exposed to some sort of
bacteria that killed him and that he'd
never really seen it. But again, I'd
have to I have an interview with the
guy. I just have to reflect back on it.
>> So, so those animals ended up dead. Yes.
>> Were they typical cattle mutilations
with the blood missing and
>> incision? No. No. No. More like just got
exposed as some sort of bacteria. So
that would point towards the bacteria
maybe not being animal, but it's so it's
just what fascinates me so much about
the bacteria is that it's something
that's rare but exists on Earth.
>> Well, here's what Dr. Janini told me and
he told me this on camera. He'd never
seen anything like it before or after.
>> Is that your experience as well?
Never seen anything like this bacteria
before or after. Dr. Amanda,
>> my medical practice is more focused on
companies, occupational medicine, and
more on private practice. My colleagues
who work in the intensive care unit,
the infectious disease specialists don't
see this type of infection, this kind of
bacteria on a daily basis. It exists,
but it's extremely rare. And normally
this infection is treated with
antibiotics.
And in this case, despite being uh
young, strong, vigorous soldier. The
bacteria led to his death in just a few
days, less than 10 days. So that's why
this bacteria is different. It's not
common and it's very virulent and highly
lethal.
>> Sounds like the anomalous component of
the bacteria is just how virulent and
lethal it was. I think it was like the
term he used was he never seen an
advanced bacteria of this strain behave
the way it did ever before or since. And
even Cesario who was working on him,
it's like I threw the kitchen sink that
should have all the antibiotics I gave
him should have saved his life but it
didn't do anything like it just he goes
I've never seen anything like it before
since either. So it was a adaptation or
an evolution of a particular bacteria on
earth but that they haven't seen on
earth that type of evolution. It's the
best way he described it to me as a
neopight. So
>> now I'm offering criticism of the
commander. I don't know if he's alive or
not, nor do I know his name.
constructive criticism of course of the
commander of the
military police barracks
because a medical complication which of
course must be investigated
but not with such a fervorous desire to
perform a witch hunt as was done with a
fellow doctor, a medical attendant who
worked at the barracks
who spent years having to explain this
to the justice system and that it was
confirmed that there was no professional
error or unfavorable outcome.
An extremely
atypical case,
a progressive illness
with pulmonary
complications
very rapid
which thoroughly stressed his doctor and
his family. Of course, he was acquitted
later, but the commander went a bit
overboard in his investigations with his
soldier because the bacteria was not
common. So, there was no professional
error. There was a complication, an
unfavorable evolution in a clinical
case, and a strong soldier,
but it should be investigated. Totoini
is correct in requesting authorization
from the justice system for new studies
of this bacteria if it exists. But the
problem is that it may still be present
in the remains. There may still be
surprises.
It's remarkable to hear uh people
consistently of your stature,
credentials, academic background, and
wellspokenenness
just consistently talk about friends
who've seen beings and crafts or talk
about anomalous bacteria.
You know, I I think this is a a really
remarkable case, and I've said this with
the other two guests today who I'm
honored to have spoken with, but it's
just I think the modern Roswell, it's
the it's the modern uh case that really
is just there's so many witnesses. It's
an overwhelming amount of evidence and
uh beyond any sort of uh threshold of a
doubt that something occurred here. And
I agree with you. I think it's very
worthy of investigation. And so I I
really appreciate you coming out, Dr.
Armando. And uh I guess my final
question would be, has this at all
affected your faith at all? You started
off with a prayer, you invoked Jesus
Christ. Uh does this affect your
worldview in any way or does has this
affected you kind of emotionally?
>> No, it didn't change me. I'm a Christian
man,
>> a doctor with great dedication to the
public health system. I was the
municipal health secretary during the
pandemic in our city. I have experience
in public health, occupational medicine
and forensic medicine. So you see my
life, my father was a pharmacist, my
mother was a primary school teacher and
I had great difficulty to study at a
federal university, a public university.
So I've always used medicine as a way to
serve.
I believe that this Vahinia case
deserves further study. But the work
that our friend James Fox has been
doing, this investigative work he has
been doing is remarkable
and deserves our applause and Vaheen is
very grateful to him. Now I extend the
invitation I made today to Dr. Hal who
is this physicist extremely dedicated to
science and to you as well Jesse to go
to Vaja if the ET went to Vaja why can't
you go as well
get to know our reality it's a pleasant
city a city with a wonderful climate
welcoming people and continue these
investigations with James Fox's team you
have a lot to contribute and you ask
extremely intelligent questions here
today.
>> You're even acting like a police
detective investigating us.
Congratulations. Thank you very much for
your work.
>> Well, when you put it like that, I can't
say no. Uh I if if an ET being traveled
from thousands of light years away, I
can certainly travel probably under a
thousand miles. Um but I I'm very
grateful for you. I really appreciate
you coming here and all your kind words
and you're clearly very sincere and
earnest. And was there was there
anything else strange about the bacteria
that's worthy of noting?
>> No. What I want to bring attention to is
that Dojanini
brought up the possibility a year ago of
performing the exumation of the remains
of the soldier to see if it's possible
to trace the bacteria to investigate it
more thoroughly and with regards to its
virulence its DNA that is if it is
possible but to study the remains rather
the DNA any of the remains of the
soldier.
>> But wasn't there something about it?
>> My understanding. Yeah, cuz because I
heard it yesterday too. Uh that Dr. Eel
was talking about it as well that there
was some sort of genetic it looked like
there was some sort of genetic
engineering done to the to the bacteria.
I you know I it was
>> was there some sort of genetic
engineering
>> who is the professor of the subject.
Maybe he can even talk to us via video
about it in person.
>> He also gave a statement that's really
good.
>> It's better to talk to Doto Janini. I'll
pass it on. We'll talk to him.
>> He gave a really good statement
>> because James, you think the bacteria
might have been manipulated or edited.
And so
>> I'm just telling you what was told to
me. I'm not a scientist, but he said
he's done thousands and thousands of
these things. He's never seen any
bacteria behaved in the way that it
behaved. And I believe he said it was a
strain that's found on Earth rarely, but
that it behaved in a way that he'd never
seen bacteria. It was an evolution of a
bacteria that he'd never seen on Earth.
>> Amazing. Okay. Well, to to be continued,
>> high virolence, high pathogenicity
with very rapid lethality.
And this is coming from the minister of
health uh who was appointed uh to
basically protect Virginia uh during the
pandemic. So obviously you uh have I
think the background to say such things
>> the pandemic yes three four years ago.
>> Dr. Armando, thank you. Really
appreciate you. James uh in typical
James Fox form has sacrificed himself.
We were going to do a one-on-one
interview, but we're kind of pressed for
time. And uh
>> you can get me anytime. Who cares?
>> Well, I just want I just I just want to
close out in saying uh that your
selflessness just generally in this
field is extremely rare. I think it's
the reason that I always when when
people ask, you know, are we ever going
to get like concrete evidence? I say,
you know, I'm not sure, but I hope James
gets it, if we do, because you were
doggedly persistent. Uh, you've been
back uh to Brazil over the the the past
15 years, multiple times a year.
>> I was there three times last year, and
I'll be there again in a week.
>> It's incredible. And um and and you
again because you we sat down a few
weeks ago, you saying, you know, just
just interview them is very typical of
your orientation towards all of this
stuff which is always give it away, give
it to the community, it's for the world.
And so uh I truly I can't thank you
enough because you uh you teed all of
this off and this is this is going to be
a beautiful piece and and hopefully new
information for for the Western world on
this. you know, there's not much more
than I think, you know, I can do beyond
your amazing documentary, but I think
seeing them in kind of a long form
podcast format with another, you know,
semirusted voice, I think, uh, I I think
um, you know, will will be will be
helpful. And what you're doing in DC as
well with all of them, I think, will
will hopefully just add fuel to the fire
and momentum to this whole this whole
cause. So, so grateful to you and Alini,
who's here as well. And uh yeah, I don't
even know what to say.
>> Go watch Moment of Contact
>> and go watch go watch both Moments of
Contact. Go watch uh this latest one is
incredible. The footage you got is just
remarkable, especially with uh Italo
Venturelli, but also with Dr. Janini,
who you you know work closely with. Uh
you have all of these guys who like you
cannot their their credentials and
stature and backgrounds are
unimpeachable and uh you have them in
tears broken down about this experience
and you like you said it's you're
talking about you know 15 to 20 total
witnesses if you're talking about you
know ships and bodies. So I'm so so
grateful for you. Oh, hey. I I
appreciate it. I appreciate your
contribution, your continued
contribution, and your continued
investigations and support. We're in
this together.
>> Okay, Marco,
>> Jesse, I love you.
>> Everybody's very happy here. Jesse,
>> I love it.