[@joerogan] Joe Rogan Experience #2338 - Beth Shapiro

Link: https://youtu.be/PsMH1-Bbqr0

Short Summary

Okay, here's the breakdown of the YouTube transcript provided:

Number One Action Item/Takeaway:

• Embrace curiosity and a willingness to challenge established ideas in science (and life in general) to foster innovation and progress.

Executive Summary:

This Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode features a conversation with paleogeneticist Beth Shapiro, who discusses her background, her work at Colossal Biosciences bringing back extinct species, and the inherent conflict that can arise in academics when challenging the status quo. Shapiro highlights the importance of curiosity, challenging assumptions, and embracing new technologies in science, but also acknowledges the potential ethical dilemmas involved in de-extinction and genetic manipulation, emphasizing a need for balanced, thoughtful deliberation guided by science.

Key Quotes

Okay, here are 5 quotes from the provided Joe Rogan Experience podcast transcript that I consider particularly insightful or interesting:

1. "I get to go somewhere, I get to find out something new that completely rewrites what we thought we knew, and it's brilliant. And I get to fight with people a lot." - This quote from Beth Shapiro encapsulates the thrill and sometimes frustrating nature of scientific discovery. It highlights the inherent drive to challenge established knowledge, even if it leads to conflict.

2. "There's a big I think in academia in particular, there's this big scarcity mindset and this leads people to be kind of negative about everything. Well, that's going to be too hard. If I say that that's good, then that means that the thing that I want to do probably isn't going to get that money. Or if you get attention, that means I can't get attention. And it leads to this negativity that I think stifles innovation." - This quote gets to the heart of a major issue within academia: the competitive environment and the fear of losing resources can hinder collaboration and innovation.

3. "Biology doesn't care that that animal's called a brown bear by us and that animal's called a polar bear. They run into each other. They're like, 'Cool.'" - This quote highlights the human tendency to impose rigid classifications on the natural world, while nature often operates with more fluidity and intermingling.

4. "We are as gods... and we just better get good at it." - This bold and provocative statement recognizes the immense power humanity now wields over the planet and the responsibility that comes with it. It acknowledges our active role in shaping the world's biodiversity.

5. "How it will happen is there will be some massive pandemic and we discover that there is a particular mutation that means you're going to die and then suddenly this most unethical thing that is like completely aborant and you absolutely can't do it will be the only ethical solution that is how we get there." This quote is a bit scary and insightful all at the same time, as Beth shares her vision for the future of gene editing.

Detailed Summary

Here is a detailed summary of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast featuring Beth Shapiro:

• Introduction:

  • Joe Rogan introduces Beth Shapiro, a scientist specializing in ancient DNA (paleogenomics) and Chief Science Officer at Colossal (a company focused on de-extinction).
  • Shapiro explains that paleogenomics involves extracting DNA from ancient specimens and that she likes this field because it allows her to rewrite what we thought we knew, but she also has to fight with a lot of people.

• Dealing with Criticism and Gatekeeping in Academia:

  • Shapiro talks about the negativity and "scarcity mindset" in academia that stifles innovation.
  • She mentions the prevalence of gatekeeping, where some individuals believe they are the only experts and dismiss differing opinions.
  • Rogan mentions about pushback from scientists and other colleagues to someone giving information from a podcast, not being from academia.

• From Broadcast Journalism to Ancient DNA:

  • Shapiro initially wanted to work in broadcast journalism but was drawn to science after taking a field geology and archaeology course that spanned the US.
  • She describes her fascination with telling stories about how humans have changed the landscape.
  • She found herself in the field of ancient DNA after meeting Alan Cooper, who had a lab capable of extracting DNA from bones and he enticed her to come by going to Siberia.

• Experiences in Siberia:

  • Shapiro recounts her initial, less-than-ideal experiences in Siberia, noting the lack of functioning infrastructure, including their helicopter and the overwhelming number of mosquitoes.
  • She describes a bizarre trip where their helicopter picked up a random French family with cheese, landing them in a glaciated area where they couldn't find any bones they were looking for.
  • She then describes the time that the members of the expedition team ran into Dolgon people (reindeer herders) and bonded over cheese after the medical ethanol ran out.
  • The only time she could take her head net off was while around the reindeer and the Dolgon people.

• Mosquitoes in Siberia and Alaska:

  • They discuss the extreme aggressiveness of mosquitoes in the Arctic regions.
  • The mosquitoes can reproduce without a blood meal but prefer to get one.
  • They're big and aggressive because they only have about 3 months to live.

• Happy People, Life in the Tiger

  • Rogan describes the movie about people that live on the Tiger River who live a subsistence lifestyle. They're very happy despite their hard lives.
  • The people live a very basic life, which is very fulfilling.
  • We have the same genes as people from 10,000 years ago, but we're not designed for this world.

• The Early Days of Ancient DNA Research:

  • Shapiro explains how her field was initially misunderstood, with many believing it was spawned by Jurassic Park, not the other way around.
  • She recounts how early attempts to extract dinosaur DNA were flawed, often resulting in contamination with modern DNA like chicken.
  • The invention of PCR by Kary Mullis revolutionized ancient DNA research by allowing the photocopying of DNA.

• Ancient DNA Challenges and Clean Labs:

  • She describes the challenges of working with ancient DNA, which is fragmented, degraded, and mixed with contaminants like microbial DNA and human DNA.
  • To combat this, specialized clean labs are used to prevent contamination.

• Neanderthal Genome Sequencing and Discoveries:

  • Shapiro highlights the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome as a significant achievement in ancient DNA research, which led to a Nobel Prize for Svante Pääbo.
  • The Denisovans were found out of a tiny finger bone that had a totally new species of human.
  • She talks about a the discovery of the big head people, julianeris.

• Humans and Neandertals

  • There was no way to know that they bred with humans from looking at bones.
  • Then DNA came and it turns out they mixed.

• Flores people

  • The little people on the island of Flores, they still can't get any DNA from those samples.

• Island Dwarfism and Evolution on Islands:

  • They discuss the phenomenon of island dwarfism, where animals on islands can evolve to be smaller, like elephants.
  • Conversely, some animals get larger, like Komodo dragons.

• Komodo Dragons:

  • They discuss the violent ways Komodo dragons eat.
  • They talk about the person who got attacked and bit by the Komodo dragons because he didn't wear shoes.

• Giraffes

  • Giraffes may be the dumbest animals that are able to kill themselves accidentally and that's what Shapiro has heard from Zookeepers.
  • However, an article shows they can rely on relative frequencies to predict outcomes.

• Video Games

  • They talk about video games being addictive.
  • "If we could take one of those Dennis Hovens, show them that."

• The Colossal Project: Direwolves

  • Colossal's goal isn't to bring back extinct humans.
  • Colossal is de-extinct direwolves, and their next step for their lives is to study them and see how their changed because their DNA is modified.
  • Measure expression, growth, health span, lifespan.
  • They're building a small pack and putting them on a secure, expansive ecological preserve.

• Arguments Against Direwolves

  • People are saying that these are not Direwolves, they are just Grey Wolves.
  • That's correct, but they manipulated the DNA of Grey Wolves to make them more like a Direwolf.
  • They took the direwolf sequence from 72,000 years ago and another sequence from 13,000 years ago, lined them up to see what makes them different and brought those back.
  • No one has ever seen a direwolf, so they never knew what they looked like.
  • But once they sequenced the DNA they were able to see what color their coats were.
  • Environment could be a factor, and the location where they found the bones was a Northern location.

• Polar Bear and Brown Bear DNA

  • Found a couple of hybridized during the ice age when they overlap each other.
  • When they overlap geographically they breed.
  • Bears are fascinating because nature doesn't care that we call them two different names, they're the same.
  • It all gets confusing when we name these things.

• What is a Buffalo?

• Shapiro defines a buffalo as a breed of hybrid 5/8 cattle and 3/8 bison that supposedly has better meat.

• Extinct Animals

  • Mammoth Tooth found at South Carolina.
  • The whole concept of extinction wasn't really discovered and known.
  • Even Thomas Jefferson, who knew there was this massive animal that was no longer alive, believed there was a chance they could still find one.

• Sasquatch Pee

  • They received a hand-written letter from someone in the Carolinas that included insulation that Sasquatch pee'd on and she tested it.

• Gigantopithecus

  • They don't have a full skeleton, but know that it existed through bones.
  • It's possible that they lived with humans.
  • We don't know how many species existed and didn't leave behind bones.

• Dirt and Sediments

  • They can get DNA directly from the dirt and sediments.
  • They found DNA from horses around 4,000 to 5,000 years ago when we thought they'd been extinct.

• Revising Models

  • Even though there were some archeologists attacking another for discovering human footprints in white sands that were older than they thought they existed.
  • When the bones are different, the scientists and archeologists attack each other.
  • What is the earliest known human?

• New Skeletons Being Found

  • They uncovered skeletons 6,000 years old with never before seen DNA that rewrites human history.

• Three-Fingered Peruvian Skeletons:

  • Rogan brings up the controversial three-fingered skeletons found in Peru and asks Shapiro about their legitimacy.
  • The CAT scans of this show even show more details on the 3D.
  • But that neck.
  • If it's art let me buy it.

• Bringing Back the Three-Toed Alien People?

  • If you find one of these and they say "no" after reviving them, just shoot them in the head.

• Altering the DNA of Species

  • Since they decided what these species are it doesn't matter what the DNA says or does.

• Human History

  • Humans want to have a conversation with other humans so they have to give things names.
  • Why are certain people okay to breed with and others not to breed with?
  • In buffalo, they wanted to make something that was robust and North America and tame and easy to deal with as cattle.

• The Hippo Solution

  • Early 1900s, there was a meat question, everyone needed more meat.
  • At the same time, the bayou was clogged with water hyacinths.
  • So they decided to import hippos.
  • How did it get stopped? An accident. There was a guy that scout who thought it was a great idea and some scammer. They testified. What if they tame and safe? Yeah. The New York Times says, "It's a lake cow bacon." Even Teddy was behind it but it just didn't go up for the vote.
  • There are hippos that live in Columbia because of Pablo Escobar.

• Invasive Wild Pigs

  • Wild pigs have now populated through California.
  • They don't see them in Alaska, the Yukon, where they have a lot of big stashes coming out of the ground, the permafrost.
  • There was an animal that was always contracting with the same scientists. They just were saying something different to keep publishing.
  • If the world's wild, pigs evolved in Asia and they go feral really quickly.
  • If the pigs go fair, it's really quick. Like 6 weeks. That's how it's working.

• Invasive Species

  • That's why we need the technologies at colossal.
  • Birds they can help the mammals adapt but what about the birds?
  • One way we did was to save Florida panthers, they would introduce panthers from Texas, the closest genetically and geographically so they can breed and the population can recover.
  • It's called genetic rescue.

• The worst idea they were talking about introducing honey badgers in Florida.

  • We have a history of this with Giant African Land Snails and rosy wolf snails.

• Wild Boars

• William Randoff Hurst imported a bunch of wild pigs and then they got everywhere.

• African Animals

• They import African animals and want low cost meat. Are they easily tame and domesticated? Yes.

• Colorado and Wolves

  • This is exactly why they need to talk to biologist and ecologists.
  • This is not all land can be the same that it can be in Yellowstone.
  • Wolves that were taken from Oregon because these wolves were playing on the cattle.
  • Ballot box biology.

• ReWild Direwolves?

  • They're not going to do this.
  • I don't think Kisi would.
  • Maybe but they have to separate it and they're not going to let them breed.
  • We'll probably use a subcutaneous thing because don't want them to be castrated because they want them to grow to the full size.
  • But they're tracked.

• Short Faced Bears

  • The Host Eagle with talons can be one of the animals they may want to bring back, which leads to short-faced bear.
  • They have DNA. The guy that wants to kill bears is the short face bear.
  • What's the problem? The short face bear is a short face bear.
  • There's a picture showing the huge difference.
  • Or a longhorn Bisson.
  • But what if there were animal there that went extinct?
  • We can bring back direwolves right now.

• ReWilding Plans and the Challenges Ahead

  • They're putting together re-wilding plans and hiring people to put that together. What is the potential impact?
  • "What animal do you have in mind and where do you plan to use them eventually?"
  • Mammoth, of course, eventually and that it will be to have animal in the wild habitat.
  • However, what is the plan for Mammoth?
  • Now they can't focus on Russia because issues probably will be there in North America.
  • So the goal is to have them in that wild area.
  • These also have to take between 10 to 14 years of age to reach reproductive age.
  • So they are going to be a deliberate and careful process and not get out of control.

• 4,000y old Mammoth and horse

  • That's pretty crazy but then who knows when the dinosaurs were here right and they are all not fossils.

• Short Faced Bear

  • When did the extinct? Maybe it's that time where humans know we don't want to have 12 foot tall 1000 pound bear.
  • You can't get to it before it whacks before your friends.

• 150,000y old Longhorn Bisson

  • They do have DNA on hand.

• Irish Elk

  • They can do that as well and they do have DNA on hand.

• Five Ft Tall Giant Beaver

  • The beavers are scared and there also 5 ft tall. Just imagine. What if that one died out in the Ice Age and what if 65% of animals died at that time with the megapond now as in North America.

• American Lion. So Huge.

  • Was the giant sloth? Thomas Jefferson, the bones are also found. Also, what about it with what slow. They move. How did they not.

• Fast Wild Cats

  • Would there be big cat there back? Do they want to take them there back. What's the Southwest cats? It's the whole time what they have at least a couple of Jaguar right?
  • And when they got caught mountain lion genetics? They also want to go out and get killed by this one.

• Crazy Bears

  • "Were the town named after it as named after the bear"?
  • Not to this guy so yeah it's called California and they don't want to hunt. Monarch, they put a smile on these face. All of California.

• Eating Cars, The Fat Bear Week Competition

  • That is one thing. But it is not great about to eat car. And bears are there eating.
  • "They also need to give all it stuff on the world when that is that to give.

• Documentary Grizzly Man (and the nature of academic negativity)

  • And the people you're also talking about if when is he would a and so then this all over they're also a huge negative all the time.
  • "You go I'm done with everything. We were really really to talk. And and what this for all the time but that did I mean what I am saying that you get to take as not how a you have to know to
  • People said that before that get to hear that and had a and so one more. I got and he was and a great
  • We had that the
  • We're so good all this the.
  • "I am I can see the in would come back the way the more
  • What a what a small all around. How a what time if there's
  • I didn't know a and a small for is"