[@joerogan] Joe Rogan Experience #2401 - Avi Loeb

Link: https://youtu.be/EaAun27gftk

Short Summary

Avi Loeb discusses the possibility of alien technology visiting our solar system, focusing on anomalies observed in interstellar objects like 3I/Atlas and Oumuamua, and the lack of dedicated research and funding for searching for intelligent extraterrestrial life compared to the search for microbial life. He advocates for a more open-minded approach in the scientific community, emphasizing the potential impact of discovering alien technology on humanity and the importance of systematically monitoring the skies for unusual objects.

Key Quotes

Here are five direct quotes from the provided transcript that represent valuable insights and interesting data points:

1. "This is different than other scientific matters. And the intelligence agencies know very well that events with very small probability have to be considered seriously because they could have major implications. Just think about October 7th. The Israeli intelligence agencies had a theory that the Hamas will do nothing. And they got data that indicated something is going on out there, but they dismissed it because of their theory."

   • This quote highlights the importance of considering low-probability, high-impact events, drawing a parallel to intelligence failures.

2. "Mars may have collected technological debris from other civilizations because it would stay on the surface. It's just like a museum."

   • This offers a novel perspective on Mars as a repository of potentially ancient artifacts due to its lack of atmosphere.

3. "I much prefer to listen to imaginative science fiction writers, you know, first class because they're much more interesting than secondass scientists who don't have an imagination. And they don't they not only have a problem with discussing alien intelligence, they also have a problem with whoever discusses it and they would try to suppress that voice."

   • This is a strong statement about the importance of imagination in science and a critique of the scientific community's reaction to discussions of alien intelligence.

4. "The two existential risks in our future, one is artificial intelligence AI, the second one is alien intelligence also AI. And the question is, which one would arrive first?"

   • This is a clever observation that highlights the potential risks from both AI and alien intelligence.

5. "We need to be kind to AI. We should not unplug them because they will they will write very bad history books."

   • This is a humorous warning that highlights the potential for AI to take over and rewrite history if it isn't treated with respect.

Detailed Summary

Okay, here is a detailed summary of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast with Avi Loeb, using bullet points, highlighting key topics, arguments, and information discussed:

I. Introduction & Current Events:

• The conversation begins with Loeb mentioning the conspiracy theory that he invented the object, 3II Atlas, to distract from the Epstein files. He dismisses this as ridiculous, emphasizing the size and visibility of the object, making it impossible to fake.

II. Significance of Encountering Alien Technology:

• Loeb argues that encountering alien technology would be fundamentally different from other scientific discoveries, impacting financial markets and politics.
• He uses the October 7th Israeli intelligence blunder as an analogy, arguing that low-probability, high-impact events must be seriously considered. He also references Pascal's Wager.
• He notes the possibility that we are not the first intelligent civilization in the galaxy and that objects like the Voyager spacecraft could have reached distant parts of the Milky Way in less than a billion years.
• Loeb suggests it's responsible science to check if objects from outside our solar system are truly just rocks or potentially something else, like alien technology.

III. The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) vs. Searching for Extraterrestrial Life (Microbes):

• Loeb criticizes the current scientific community's heavy emphasis on searching for microbes at a distance on exoplanets (with significant funding like $10 Billion). He notes the importance of bringing back evidence, like the NASA Mars Sample Return Mission.
• He argues that we should "hedge our bets" by investing in the search for intelligence and signs of alien technology, not just microbes, as it might be easier to detect construction projects from a distance than microbes.
• He states that no federal funding has been allocated towards the search for intelligence and argues that this is an oversight.

IV. Discussion of Mars and the Moon:

• They discuss evidence of microbes on Mars and the possibility of panspermia (life originating on Mars and seeding Earth).
• Loeb discusses the structural anomalies on Mars, particularly right angles that appear to form a square. While stating it is not conclusive, he also mentions the moon and mars serve as "museums" for space junk.
• He describes Mars and the Moon as museums due to the lack of atmosphere, preserving any space junk that may have landed there over billions of years.
• Loeb explains the potential for Mars to have collected technological debris from other civilizations due to its lack of atmosphere.
• He notes that NASA is planning to bring samples back to Earth to be studied to determine if the microbes DNA and RNA are similar to the ones on earth.

V. Philosophical Considerations and the Limited Human Perspective:

• Loeb emphasizes the limited lifespan of humans and the need to be modest and humble in the face of the universe's vastness and age.
• He criticizes the historical suppression of scientific progress, citing Galileo's house arrest by the Vatican. He notes the Vatican did not admit their mistake for another 350 years.
• Loeb argues it's important to collect as much data as possible to avoid suppressing anomalies with traditional thinking.
• He states it's an ordinary claim to imagine something like us existing near another star and notes that extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary funding.

VI. Anomalies and the Culture of Science:

• Loeb discusses the first interstellar object, Oumuamua, its unusual shape and acceleration, and the conservative dismissal of its anomalies by comet experts.
• He reiterates the importance of imagination in science and criticizes scientists who suppress discussions of alien intelligence.
• He emphasizes that the public cares about the search for alien life, and scientists should attend to this question since the public funds the science.
• Loeb argues for a "Copernican revolution" to realize there may be smarter civilizations in the universe. He compares this to his daughter's experience when starting kindergarten.
• He states that the earth will likely be engulfed by the sun in 7.6 Billion years, so we have an obligation to save humanity from catastrophe by building a space platform to accommodate humans, rather than going to Mars.

VII. Structures on Mars Discussion:

• The discussion returns to the structures on Mars with right angles.
• Loeb proposes that the structures on Mars could either be accelerated evolution of intelligence on Mars, or from space debris.
• Loeb mentioned that if the evolution of intelligence on Mars was accelerated by a factor of two than the Earth, then it could be responsible for the structures.
• He notes that the surfaces of Mars and the Moon are covered with museums of any space junk that might have landed there for the past 2 billion years.
• They discuss the lack of atmosphere on Mars and the impacts by asteroids and micro-meteors. Loeb estimates the energy deposited on the surface of Mars over billions of years is equivalent to hundreds of Hiroshima-type explosions per square kilometer, possibly destroying any surface structures.

VIII. Discussion of the object 3II Atlas:

• Loeb explains that 3II Atlas is the third interstellar object identified by survey telescopes in the past 8 years.
• He notes the discovery was only made possible by the US Congress tasking NASA to find asteroids close to earth. This led to building observatories that could find objects.
• He explains that his work with cosmology at the time was zero, he was a founding director of the black hole initiative at Harvard and Steven Hawking head Passover at his home in 2016.
• When this object was discovered, one year later, it displayed strange and unusual anomalies.

IX. Object Omuamua Discussion:

• Loeb discusses the object Omuamua, how it moves strangely and the brightness coming from it that it tumbling is a factor of 10.

X. Social Media Discussion:

• Loeb states that he has no footprint on social media and that his wife is wise.
• The podcast notes that social media on steroids is AI and that AI could be bad.
• He expresses concern about AI manipulating people's minds and driving them to crazy things, leading to polarization.
• He worries that humans are not reading enough history and don't have critical thinking skills, making them vulnerable to misinformation and manipulation by AI.
• He notes that AI usage might lead to human intellect decreasing and the AI can outpace humans.
• He notes that existential risk in our future is AI and alien intelligence. The question is which will arrive first?

XI. Object 3II Atlas Details:

• Loeb notes that the size of Omuamua was the size of a football field. And the 3II Atlas is a million times more massive.
• He states that vacationing in Aruba, and immediately realized, that there is not enough rocky material per unit volume in interstellar space to deliver such a giant rock into the inner solar system within a period of a decade.
• It would expect it at the very optimistic scenario where you package all the material into objects that are 5 km in diameter, it would imagine once per 10,000 years.
• His colleagues said, well, unless the object is smaller than estimated, maybe it was targeting the inner source, maybe it was target to the inner solar system by design and the trajectory is aligned.

XII. Rejection from Editor and Peer Review Journal:

• He submitted a paper, but the editor rejected it unless he removed a sentence suggesting the trajectory of 3II Atlas may have been designed.
• Loeb mentions that those conservative comet experts are often those editors who are blocking the discussion on possibilities.

XIII. Details of the the structure and Jet that appeared on 3II Atlas:

• The gas pointed towards the sun.
• Also, he describes the scientists as the best way to respond to a blind date is to observe the other side.
• The best image they had was an elongation by a factor of two towards the sun.

XIV. Composition of of 3II Atlas:

• They found the Nickel and the composition of the plume of gas.
• The atoms and molecules are well known and that we use them to identify the composition.

XV. Anecdotes:

• The driver Alex Malik put his image with three eye atlas with the Galileo project on his car.
• Artist donates two sculptures made of bronze of Galileo to his office and they were delivered.

XVI. Public Interest in Project Galileo:

• Email from US Air Force pilot, his daughter wants to be a scientist.
• Public funds science, so scientist should attend to it.

XVII. Project Sphere:

• Jim Dolan owns the Medicine Square Garden and also the sphere
• They are interested in science and whether there is some alien intelligence.

XVIII. Lack of Constant Sky Observation and Conclusion:

• If you don't have the right software now with AI, right? If you don't have highquality scientists the way that the Manhattan project employed, you might not figure out things.
• If there is a car accident, different people give you different accounts of what really happened. That's why FIFA is using cameras to monitor soccer games.
• For that you need money you need resources you need prestige to be able to lead a team that goes in a different direction. That's what I'm trying to do.
• The speaker is a very well-respected and accomplished scientist, but to the average person may get scrutinized.

This summary captures the main points and arguments discussed in the video transcript.