Skip to main content

[@RenaissancePeriodization] “Compounds Lifts First” Is Overrated

· 6 min read
[@RenaissancePeriodization] Summarizer
Video Bot

@RenaissancePeriodization - "“Compounds Lifts First” Is Overrated"

Link: https://youtu.be/pKW2ShDwDg4

Short Summary​

This video challenges the common advice of always performing compound exercises before isolation exercises in weight training. While compounds-first is generally beneficial for strength and athletic performance, the speaker argues that for hypertrophy (muscle growth), prioritizing specificity and stimulus-to-fatigue ratio might make isolation exercises first a better approach in certain situations.

Key Quotes​

Okay, here are 4 direct quotes from the transcript that I found particularly insightful:

  1. "Are you trying to get jacked in a decent amount of time? Or are you trying to see how injured you can make your back while quote unquote squatting because a squat's such a bad matchup for your biomechanics that it barely hits your quads at all?" (This highlights a crucial point about individual biomechanics and exercise selection.)

  2. "If in hypertrophy training we can get excellent specificity and the highest stimulus to fatigue ratios possible, we don't care if it's isolations first or compounds first that let us do that. And if it happens to be isolations first that let us maximize specificity and maximize stimulus to fatigue ratio like get a lot out of the exercise by paying a small fatigue cost, then that that's the correct way to do it. And the rule of compounds first before isolations no longer applies for us." (This is a strong statement that directly challenges the "compounds first" dogma for physique training, emphasizing specificity and stimulus-to-fatigue ratio.)

  3. "The stimulus to fatigue ratio of doing squats after isolations is probably higher than doing them fresh. The fatigue is way lower. The stimulus is lower, too. But check this out. The stimulus is just a bit lower. Their fatigue is substantially lower. That's a big deal. " (This clearly explains the rationale behind pre-exhaustion techniques for hypertrophy by improving stimulus to fatigue ratio.)

  4. "For general physique overall looking sexy, looking your best, being healthy, and especially if you're time constrained, you train a couple times a week, 20 to 40 minutes each time, rapid fire exercises. My best advice to you is use only compounds if you can do it." (This makes a useful case for prioritizing compound lifts for beginners or those with limited time to train)

Detailed Summary​

Okay, here is a detailed summary of the YouTube video transcript in bullet points:

Key Topic: The Validity of "Compounds Before Isolations" Advice in Weight Training

  • The video challenges the common advice of always doing compound exercises (multi-joint) before isolation exercises (single-joint) in weight training.
  • It explores when this advice is valid and when it can be detrimental.

Why the "Compounds First" Advice Exists:

  • Tradition/Assumption: It's been repeated for so long that many accept it without questioning.
  • Maximizing Compound Lift Performance: Doing isolations first can reduce the weight or reps you can achieve in compound exercises.
  • Athletic Coordination & Speed: Compound movements require more coordination and speed, which is best trained when fresh.
  • Overall Strength Training: Compound exercises involve multiple muscles and joints, mimicking real-world strength feats.

Specific Reasons for Prioritizing Compounds (Strength & Athletic Performance):

  • Overall Strength: Compound movements allow the use of more weight and engage multiple muscles, leading to greater overall strength gains.
  • Specific Compound Lift Strength: To get stronger at a specific compound lift (e.g., squat, bench press), you need to train it fresh with maximum weight and reps. Fatigue from isolations hinders this.
  • Athletic Performance/Coordination: Isolations before compounds can negatively impact speed, rate of force development, and muscle activation patterns needed for sports. Fresh compounds transfer better.

How "Compounds First" Can Lead You Astray (Hypertrophy/Physique Training):

  • Specificity & Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio (SFR) are King: In physique training (getting jacked), the focus should be on targeting specific muscles effectively (specificity) and maximizing growth stimulus while minimizing fatigue (SFR).
  • Prioritize specificity and SFR over compounds first, if it leads to better results.
  • If the compound exercise does not have a great stimulus to fatigue ratio fresh, then isolation first can be a better alternative

Examples and Explanations:

  • Incline Dumbbell Press: A good compound movement for chest if it's limited by the chest, stimulates the chest well, and doesn't overly stress joints. In this case, compound first is great
  • Barbell Squat: If the lower back is the limiting factor, or the overall fatigue cost is high, doing leg extensions or leg presses first can be beneficial:
    • Isolations pre-exhaust the quads, making squats more quad-focused even with less weight.
    • Lower weight in the squat reduces systemic fatigue, joint stress, and injury risk.
    • The stimulus to fatigue ratio of the overall leg workout (isolation + compound) might be higher, even if the raw stimulus from the squat itself is lower.
    • You might need to do a few extra leg press sets to compensate for the lower stimulus squats give
  • Analogy: The isolations first workout might not be the $100 meal, it may be the $80-$90 meal but it is only 50% of the fatigue, overall stimulus is roughly the same but at 1/2 the fatigue

Key Arguments Against Strict "Compounds First":

  • Needlessly Low Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio: Always doing compounds first can result in excessive fatigue for the amount of muscle growth stimulus achieved.
  • Trouble Targeting Specific Muscles: Compound exercises might not always be the best for directly targeting the muscles you want to grow.

Correct Approach (Physique Training):

  • Determine Which Exercise Order Maximizes Specificity – Hitting the muscles you want to grow.
  • Determine Which Exercise Order Gives You the Best Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio.

Summary of Exercise selection

  • Strength Training: Compounds first is generally best for maximum tension and strength gains.
  • Athletics: Compounds first is crucial for speed, coordination, and maximum force production.
  • Physique Training: It depends on specificity and stimulus to fatigue ratio. Sometimes compounds first works, sometimes isolations first is better. There is no one size fits all

Additional Points:

  • Time-Constrained General Fitness: If you only have a short time to work out, focus on compound exercises for maximum efficiency.
  • Advanced Bodybuilders: Often use isolations before compounds to pre-exhaust muscles and reduce joint stress.

I hope this is helpful! Let me know if you have any other questions.