[@ChrisWillx] What Embryo Selection Means for Humanity - Dr Jonathan Anomaly

Link: https://youtu.be/KjA_Te9uMTc

Short Summary

Herasite is a company aiming to democratize embryo selection through polygenic risk scores, empowering individuals to make informed choices during IVF to minimize disease risk and enhance traits like intelligence. While public concern exists due to anxieties around genetic tampering and eugenics, the company emphasizes they are only revealing existing genetic variations, and that government overreach and social pressure, rather than individual choice, are the true risks to monitor as this technology proliferates.

Key Quotes

Here are five direct quotes from the transcript that represent valuable insights or strong opinions:

1. "What I would worry about is governments really directly controlling the technology." - This quote encapsulates the speaker's primary concern regarding the potential misuse of embryo selection, highlighting a preference for individual choice over governmental regulation.

2. "... the more you know about genetics the more you realize like first of all they're not deterministic. There's still a lot of space for for what you can do with them. But secondly we're all good at different things. And so you know figuring out that you're you're better at some things than others doesn't mean that therefore you're I don't know inferior or you should never try to do those other things. Maybe you try to do them precisely because it is a challenge." - This quote offers a more nuanced, optimistic perspective on the implications of genetic knowledge, suggesting that it can foster self-awareness and acceptance rather than predetermined limitations.

3. "Most people don't think that someone who is healthier is morally superior to someone who's less healthy. There are degenerate societies where that's true, right? We can think of 1930s Germany and the eugenics laws that they passed which is you know before the Holocaust something like 300,000 Germans were murdered um because they were considered morally inferior because they had psychological disorders or you know sexual deviants you know some some homosexuals were killed by the German regime. So there are people who have kind of made that conflation in the past, but that doesn't mean we need to make it." - This quote addresses the fear of eugenics by directly confronting the historical association with Nazi Germany and emphasizing the importance of separating health and morality.

4. "...the really really fundamental thing that we're doing which is going to make this technology accessible to everyone basically in the world. There's no blocking this is we can now take the test for Down syndrome which basically it's just meant to to count chromosomes but it gives you a small snapshot of the genome of the embryo... And that means they can get these polygenic reports that we offer. They thought they were getting a D down test, but they were also getting a schizophrenia test, a test for intelligence, a test for height, a test for all of the the kind of disease traits that they care about that we can offer." - This quote details a crucial innovation that democratizes embryo selection, allowing individuals to access comprehensive genetic information through common and legally accepted tests.

5. "A polygenic risk score is basically just an indication that given your genetic endowment, you're going to be at higher risk or lower risk of whatever it is we're talking about... And so the key then is to use these kind of sibling studies and we call them within family studies when we're talking about embryos. And if you can predict just based on DNA the differences between adult siblings, then you know that's also going to apply for embryos." - This quote is valuable because it explains, in simple terms, how polygenic risk scores are created and validated, addressing a key concern about their reliability and accuracy.

Detailed Summary

Okay, here's a detailed summary of the YouTube video transcript provided, using bullet points:

Key Topics

• Embryo Selection and Polygenic Risk Scoring: The video centers on embryo selection using polygenic risk scores (PRS) to predict and influence traits beyond single-gene disorders. Herasite, the company discussed, uses this technology.
• Ethical Concerns and Public Perception: Addresses common concerns surrounding embryo selection, including fears of "tinkering with the human genome," eugenics, genetic inequality, and the loss of romanticism in childbirth.
• The "Slippery Slope" to Eugenics: Discussion about concerns surrounding a future where genetic inequalities grow and the possible dangers of governmental or societal pressures surrounding genetic intervention.
• Democratization vs. Government Control: Explores the tension between making embryo selection technology widely accessible (potentially reducing inequality) and the risk of government overreach, forced subsidies, and coercion.
• The Role of Government and Societal Norms: Discussion surrounding the debate on where best to draw the line on controlling government involvement, or encouraging/discouraging the selection process.
• Benefits of Knowledge: Claims for positive externalities. Not only will embryo selection lead to reductions in disease and potentially increases in intelligence, but will lead to a better society with better norms.

Arguments and Information Discussed

• Why People Worry:
  • New Technology: Skepticism towards a new and not fully explained technology.
  • Confusion with Gene Editing: Mistaking embryo selection (choosing among existing genetic variations) for gene editing (altering the genome).
  • Romanticism of Childbirth: Worry that selecting for desirable traits will remove romanticism.
• How it Works (Herasite's Approach):
  • Builds on existing IVF practices of genetic testing for aneuploidy (Down syndrome) and single-gene disorders (PGTM).
  • Uses polygenic risk scores to reveal more information about natural genetic variations across multiple genes for many traits.
  • Employs a novel algorithm: Allows for whole genome sequencing of embryos using data from PGTA (Down Syndrome tests) and whole genome sequencing of the parents. This makes the procedure more widely available as doctors don't need to understand how it works, as the data can be used more widely.
• Current Practices and the Illusion of Randomness:
  • Doctors already visually assess embryos for morphology (shape/health) during IVF, which is a form of selection.
  • Embryo selection using PRS provides more information, not a fundamentally different kind of decision.
• Individual vs. Societal Impact:
  • Focus on individual choices to minimize disease risk versus government control.
  • Governments subsidizing genetic testing is not inherently a problem but may become one if it forces everyone to pay for something they may disagree with.
• The Wealth Gap and Genetic Inequality:
  • Wealth inequality already has a genetic component (assortative mating based on intelligence, height, athleticism).
  • Embryo selection could exacerbate existing inequalities.
  • Argues against government intervention to solve gaps as it leans more towards coercive eugenics.
• The Slippery Slope and Liberal Eugenics:
  • Individuals making informed choices versus government forcing interventions.
  • Concerns about social pressure if everyone else is using the technology.
• Taboos Around Mental Traits:
  • Post-WWII taboos against genetic explanations for intelligence and mental health.
  • Differential acceptance of screening for disease vs. traits like intelligence (lower acceptance in the US, similar acceptance in Singapore).
  • Argument that we can understand the genetics of mental traits just like bodily traits.
• Eugenics and Value Judgments:
  • The distinction between selecting against disease and selecting for traits (positive vs. negative).
  • Concern that mental traits are more closely tied to a person's sense of self and moral worth.
• Addressing Concerns:
  • Acknowledges concerns about government control and social pressure.
  • Stresses the importance of individual informed choices and reducing disease risks.
• The inevitability of Government involvement
  • As embryo selection becomes widespread, it might be beneficial to subsidize poorer people to keep up with the rich, but would also force other people to pay for the technology which they may not agree with, which comes back to the slippery slope argument
• The Future and Herasite's Role:
  • The company's aim is to democratize access to genetic information, making it harder to be controlled by doctors, etc.
  • The ease of obtaining necessary data (parental sequencing, PGTA) makes the technology unstoppable.
• Criticisms from Other Players
  • Doctor paternalism and lack of understanding for the complexities/probabilities of disease.
• Important Questions To Ask To Mitigate Issues:
  • How do you validate the results of the polygenic scores?
  • How well does it work?
  • How does it work across different ancestry groups?
• The efficacy of selecting intelligent embryos
  • With 10 embryos, it can produce a 15.5 point spread, which is a full standard deviation.
• The issue of Buyer's Remorse:
  • Buyers could have negative thoughts of I am more culpable for my child's outcomes now than before.
• Potential to have better societal norms:
  • There is the potential to stop the pursuit of power via competition but instead lead to working towards a world of the good, the true, and the beautiful.
• How do you solve this problem?
  • Have good ethics and morals to promote people to do what is good
• The problem of personhood.
  • If, for any reason, you did not use the process and the child was born with a bad disease or mental defect, is there something wrong with you? What about those who are pro-choice but against the process?
• Transparency is the main element
  • Governments or companies should not be forced to do or say anything but there should be transparent access to all data

Key Information

• IVF is increasingly common.
• Genetic selection is already happening with morphology assessments.
• The technology reveals information about embryos' genetic predispositions.
• Individual autonomy and informed choice are emphasized.
• China, India, and the Middle East are likely to adopt the technology rapidly.
• Genetic testing to determine if certain conditions run in a family or what new conditions could arise based on simulation.
• Many companies and the UK BiioBank have a multitude of scientific information from across a large array of genetic data and correlations to said genetic traits to properly correlate.
• The predictive power is best found within siblings, which is comparable to siblings, who have DNA from the same parent.

This detailed breakdown should provide a comprehensive summary of the video's content.