Link: https://youtu.be/CiQTBOQ1dTg

Duration: 295 min

Short Summary

Timothy Alberino, an author, researcher, and son of a pastor who first encountered the Book of Enoch at age 16, explores how its accounts of the Watchers, Nephilim, and antediluvian cosmology provide a framework for understanding UFO/UAP phenomena, ancient giants, and modern abduction experiences. The episode examines claims about Martian civilization, fallen angels as technologically advanced physical beings, demons as disembodied Nephilim spirits, and transhumanism as a potential fulfillment of biblical prophecy. It also includes investigative reporting on alleged incursions by hoverboard-equipped attackers in a Peruvian Amazon village in 2023, featuring witness testimony of a 15-year-old girl's attempted abduction with alleged organ harvesting intent.

Key Quotes

1. "The human species was originally created designed intended to be a member of the divine family." (00:00:03)
2. "So, we have these watchers that came down. They were extraterrestrial. They mated with man. They created Nephilim." (00:00:09)
3. "There are ruins of an ancient civilization on the planet Mars, specifically in the region of Sidonia." (00:00:15)
4. "Tony that is some top secret." (00:00:48)
5. "Nothing too unusual about that. Their existence cannot longer be denied." (00:01:00)

Detailed Summary

Detailed Summary: Timothy Alberino on the Book of Enoch, Nephilim, and UAP Phenomena

Timothy Alberino Introduction and Background

Timothy Alberino is an author, researcher, and son of a pastor who first encountered the Book of Enoch at age 16 when he found it in the pseudepigrapha section of a Borders bookstore, despite his father's role as a pastor—a fact that underscores how thoroughly the text had been suppressed in mainstream Christianity. Nearly all scholars concede that the Book of Enoch provides the cosmological substrate for ancient Hebrew thought, and it cannot be meaningfully separated from the biblical narrative or from parallel Anunnaki/Anakian traditions. Ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Greeks, Romans, and Hebrews all viewed the antediluvian era as a time when gods or divine beings co-mingled with humanity and imparted the foundations of civilization—known to pagans as the Golden Age, or Zep Tepi to Egyptians.

• Timothy Alberino first encountered the Book of Enoch at age 16, finding it in the pseudepigrapha section of a Borders bookstore, despite his father being a pastor
• Nearly all scholars concede that the Book of Enoch provides the cosmological substrate for ancient Hebrew thought
• The oldest section of the text, the Book of the Watchers, is dated by scholars to approximately 300 BC, though the oral tradition is argued to be far older
• The Book of Enoch was preserved almost exclusively by Ethiopian Christians and the Beta Israel Jewish community, who incorporated it into their canon around the 4th century AD after it was expunged from Middle Eastern and Western scriptoria

Enoch the Patriarch and Biblical Connections

Enoch was revered among Jews as the greatest pre-flood patriarch—prophet, scribe, and purported inventor of writing—yet the Bible dedicates almost nothing to him beyond the statement that he walked with God for 365 years and then "God took him." The genealogical chain runs: Enoch → Methuselah → Lamech → Noah, making Enoch Noah's great-great-grandfather; Hebrew tradition holds that Enoch's writings were delivered to Noah and survived the flood. The New Testament epistle of Jude copies verses verbatim from the Book of the Watchers, and Peter references angels who sinned and are chained in Tartarus—a framework drawn entirely from Enochic tradition, not the Old Testament.

• The Bible states that Enoch walked with God for 365 years before "God took him"
• The genealogical chain runs: Enoch → Methuselah → Lamech → Noah, making Enoch Noah's great-great-grandfather
• The New Testament epistle of Jude copies verses verbatim from the Book of the Watchers
• Peter references angels who sinned and are chained in the gloomy abyss of Tartarus—a framework drawn entirely from Enochic tradition
• Jesus's most-used self-designation, "Son of Man," is identified as a proper messianic title that originates exclusively in the Parables of Enoch, not in the Old Testament

The Watchers and Nephilim Giants

According to the Book of Enoch, 200 Watchers descended to Earth in the days of Jared, bound themselves by a mutual oath on the summit of Mount Hermon (meaning "mountain of oath"), then took human wives and gave forbidden technological knowledge (astronomy, metallurgy, sorcery) as a dowry. The Nephilim giants grew to enormous size, consumed all available resources, subjugated humanity to feed them, and eventually began to devour mankind. The speaker argues the Watcher era lasted hundreds to potentially thousands of years before Noah's flood, and that the Watchers arrived via craft that would today be described as UFOs.

• According to the Book of Enoch, 200 Watchers descended to Earth in the days of Jared, father of Enoch
• The Watchers bound themselves by a mutual oath of imprecation on the summit of Mount Hermon—a name meaning "mountain of oath" to this day
• The Watchers gave their wives' fathers forbidden technological and scientific knowledge (astronomy, metallurgy, sorcery) as a dowry
• The Nephilim giants grew to enormous size, consumed all available resources, subjugated humanity to feed them, and eventually began to devour mankind
• The speaker argues the Watcher era lasted hundreds to potentially thousands of years before Noah's flood
• Before being imprisoned in Tartarus, the Watchers were forced to watch a fratricidal technological war among their giant sons—what the speaker calls the "empire of the gods"

Demons as Disembodied Nephilim Spirits

In ancient Hebrew cosmology (per the Book of Enoch), demons are not a separate category of being but are the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim, cursed to wander the earth with all the physical desires of flesh—hunger, thirst, sexual impulse—but without corporeal bodies to satisfy them. This framework explains New Testament demonic possession: these spirits seek human bodies to inhabit as a means of experiencing physical sensation. The Gadarene demoniac's plea—"Why have you come to torment us before the appointed time?"—references the Enochic judgment calendar, not anything in the Old Testament.

• In ancient Hebrew cosmology, demons are the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim, cursed to wander with all physical desires but without bodies
• These spirits seek human bodies to inhabit as a means of experiencing physical sensation
• The Gadarene demoniac's plea—"Why have you come to torment us before the appointed time?"—references the Enochic judgment calendar
• The Sethite theory, adopted by the church around the 2nd century AD and championed by St. Augustine, replaced the earlier supernatural interpretation of Genesis 6
• The supernatural reading is corroborated by the Dead Sea Scrolls, which contain multiple Enochic manuscripts including the Book of Giants, the Book of Jubilees, and the Genesis Apocryphon

Mars, Ancient Civilizations, and the Destroyed Planet Rahab

David Flynn's book Sidonia argues that ancient cultures believed the gods descended to Earth from a specific destroyed planet in our solar system, identified as "Rahab" in biblical texts and corresponding to the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. CIA remote viewer Joe McMoneagle was reportedly tasked to view Mars one million years ago and described beings 8–12 feet tall, pyramid structures, and ruins. PhD physicist John Brandenburg (Lawrence Livermore / Sandia) argues that excess Argon-40 and Xenon-129 on Mars are proof of a nuclear cataclysm.

• David Flynn's book Sidonia argues that ancient cultures believed the gods descended to Earth from a destroyed planet identified as "Rahab" in biblical texts
• "Rahab" corresponds to the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter
• CIA remote viewer Joe McMoneagle was reportedly tasked to view Mars one million years ago and described beings 8–12 feet tall, pyramid structures, and ruins
• PhD physicist John Brandenburg (Lawrence Livermore / Sandia) argues that excess Argon-40 and Xenon-129 on Mars are proof of a nuclear cataclysm
• Carl Sagan reportedly called Brandenburg to question why he was publicizing the claim
• The speaker argues the destruction of Rahab sent shards bombarding Mars and Earth, eviscerating pre-Adamic civilizations

Angelic Beings and the UAP Connection

The speaker argues that in biblical narratives, angels have no wings and appear fully human—citing Abraham's dinner with angelic visitors and Lot's angelic escorts at Sodom—because they are "sons of God," an elder race that pre-exists and is genetically compatible with humanity. He argues there is precisely one supernatural being in the universe—God the Father—and that everything else, including angels, operates under natural laws. Fallen angels are therefore technologically advanced physical beings, not supernatural demons.

• In biblical narratives, angels have no wings and appear fully human because they are "sons of God," an elder race genetically compatible with humanity
• The speaker argues there is precisely one supernatural being in the universe—God the Father—and everything else operates under natural laws
• Fallen angels are described as technologically advanced physical beings, not supernatural demons
• Fallen angels' purpose is to lead mankind into apostasy, cause transgression, and destroy humanity to injure God
• Armageddon is reframed as a kinetic confrontation between the returning Son of God and the coalition of fallen angelic factions and their human allies

UFO Sighting Near NASA John Glenn Research Center

The host described his own UFO sighting approximately 14 years ago in Brook Park, Ohio (near the NASA John Glenn Research Center): a diamond-shaped, grayish-green, silent craft hovering roughly 40 feet above his car with triangular white lights and green/blue perimeter lights, completely unaffected by high winds, observed for 30 seconds to 2 minutes. The craft was approximately the size of a Chinook or Blackhawk helicopter, and it lifted effortlessly, glided away, and descended over the horizon toward the NASA center. The witness suspects the craft may have been an Alien Reverse-engineered Vehicle (ARV).

• The witness observed a diamond-shaped craft with green and blue lights, stubby protrusions instead of wings, no visible windshield, and no propulsion system
• The craft was completely silent and hovered approximately 40 feet above his car
• It remained completely unaffected by strong wind gusts that were rocking the witness's Kia Sportage, as if in its own atmospheric bubble
• The craft was approximately the size of a Chinook or Blackhawk helicopter
• Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna appeared on Joe Rogan's show and recommended reading the Book of Enoch in connection with UAP/UFO disclosure

Alien Abduction Research and Physical Evidence

Jacques Vallée is described as the "godfather of modern UFO research" who connected UFO phenomena with biblical elements through transhistorical, transcultural analysis. Roger Lear extracted implants from abductees including knees and nasal cavities, with implants showing isotopic ratios that do not occur naturally on Earth. Ellie Marculli worked with Roger Lear and witnessed extractions of evasive implants that migrated within bodies without causing rejection. Whitley Strieber was confirmed to have an implant located at the top of his ear.

• Jacques Vallée is described as the "godfather of modern UFO research" who connected UFO phenomena with biblical elements
• Leonard Stringfield compiled crash retrieval research, while Budd Hopkins documented the physical reality of abduction experiences
• David Jacobs, a tenure professor of history at Temple University, interviewed thousands of abductees using relaxation techniques rather than hypnotic regression
• Roger Lear extracted implants from abductees including knees and nasal cavities, with implants showing isotopic ratios that do not occur naturally on Earth
• Ellie Marculli worked with Roger Lear and witnessed extractions of evasive implants that migrated within bodies without causing rejection
• Whitley Strieber was confirmed to have an implant located at the top of his ear

The Gray Alien Abduction Program

Gray aliens are described as "cybernetic clones" possibly created by insectoid beings (Dr. David Jacobs calls them "insectilins" or mantid beings). Abductees report that grays excrete waste through their skin, causing them to smell like ammonia and sulfur, and they lack sexual organs, tongues with teeth, and have different internal organs from humans. Grays are believed to have established forward operating bases on Earth, likely underground and at the bottom of oceans.

• Gray aliens are described as "cybernetic clones" possibly created by insectoid beings ("insectilins" or mantid beings)
• Abductees report that grays excrete waste through their skin, causing them to smell like ammonia and sulfur
• Grays lack sexual organs, tongues with teeth, and have different internal organs from humans
• An abductee friend of the speaker grabbed a gray alien by the neck and described its skin as cold, clammy, and leathery like a snake
• Grays are believed to have established forward operating bases on Earth, likely underground and at the bottom of oceans
• Carla Turner documented that beings possess virtual reality technology allowing them to fabricate complete virtual environments

Human-Alien Hybrid Program (Hubids)

David Jacobs documented "personal project hybrids" in his book "Walking Among Us" (2016)—beings that look human but retain alien telepathic capabilities. Early hybrids were visually imperfect with oversized heads, scraggly hair, oversized eyes, and short stature, but the program progressively refined them over time. According to abduction accounts, hubids are assigned to female abductees and function as psychopaths, sexually and verbally abusing, manipulating, controlling, and violently beating their assigned partners.

• David Jacobs documented "personal project hybrids" in his book "Walking Among Us" (2016)
• Jacobs uses the term "hubids" for advanced human-alien hybrids indistinguishable from humans while retaining telepathic abilities
• According to abduction accounts, hubids are assigned to female abductees and function as psychopaths
• The endgame of the alien abduction program is planetary acquisition by stealth—grays integrating themselves into human civilization
• Abduction is hereditary with no exceptions—if one or both parents are abductees, their children are also abductees
• Pregnant abductees carry hybrid fetuses for approximately 3 months before fetuses are removed to gestation tanks

The Kandahar Giant Incident

An active duty C-130 cargo pilot flew missions into Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan and in 2005 was met on the tarmac by intelligence personnel after a routine mission. A gigantic humanoid creature was found eating on dead soldiers at or near a cave; it had killed an entire first military team. The being was on a 9-foot long air cargo pallet and estimated at 10–12 feet tall, weighing approximately 1,100 pounds after subtracting pallet and dunnage weight. The giant had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, red hair, pale white skin, and was wrapped in primitive canvas on its feet.

• An active duty C-130 cargo pilot was met on the tarmac by intelligence personnel after a routine mission at Bagram Airfield in 2005
• A gigantic humanoid creature was found eating on dead soldiers at or near a cave; it had killed an entire first military team
• The being was on a 9-foot long air cargo pallet and estimated at 10–12 feet tall, weighing approximately 1,100 pounds
• The giant had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, red hair, and pale white skin
• The giant was killed after taking heavy firepower and ammunition, then airlifted from Kandahar, transferred through a base in Qatar, and reportedly ended up at Wright Patterson
• Researcher Ellie Marculli independently received a very similar account from a special ops soldier though with a 2003 date and a spear-wielding detail

Giants, Nephilim, and the Sardinian Connection

Excavators working at the Church of Anastasia in Sardinia in 1978–79 and 1980–81 independently discovered complete giant skeletons (each at least 9 feet tall) along with gold, silver, goblets, plates, and jewelry. Workers uncovered dozens of giant human bodies arranged in a 2-by-2 cross configuration. A 101-year-old Sardinian witness was interviewed for the documentary, claiming to have witnessed giant remains discovery. Excavators were explicitly told not to take pictures and never to talk about what they found.

• Excavators working at the Church of Anastasia in Sardinia in 1978–79 and 1980–81 discovered complete giant skeletons (each at least 9 feet tall)
• The discoveries included gold, silver, goblets, plates, and jewelry alongside the remains
• Workers uncovered dozens of giant human bodies arranged in a 2-by-2 cross configuration
• The bodies were well-preserved with some sinew still present, suggesting sudden burial that created hermetic sealing
• A 101-year-old Sardinian witness was interviewed, claiming to have witnessed giant remains discovery
• Abraham Lincoln made a speech stating the "eyes of that ancient species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara"

Mystery Schools and Ancient Knowledge Preservation

Mystery schools are described as secret fraternities whose objective is to preserve and recover knowledge from the antediluvian world, knowledge said to have been given to mankind by the gods. Freemasons trace their origins back to Tubalcain and Cain as the first builders of cities, with Hiram Abif as a primary figurehead. Ancient myths are described as capsules designed to preserve and transmit functional knowledge—particularly astronomical knowledge including the zodiac, precession of the equinoxes, and cyclic cataclysm.

• Mystery schools are secret fraternities whose objective is to preserve and recover knowledge from the antediluvian world
• Freemasons trace their origins back to Tubalcain and Cain as the first builders of cities, with Hiram Abif as a primary figurehead
• Ancient myths are described as capsules designed to preserve and transmit functional knowledge—particularly astronomical knowledge
• The Phoenicians are identified as the primary post-flood keepers of antediluvian knowledge
• The speaker predicts an imminent announcement of evidence of ancient Martian civilization, possibly beginning with microbial life
• Elon Musk's drive to colonize Mars aligns with ancient mystery school aspirations to recover lost Martian knowledge

Biblical Framework: Christocentric Cosmology

Colossians 1:15–17 establishes that Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, and by him all things were created. Non-human intelligences (sons of God, angels) pre-exist mankind and are preeminent in their nature. Christ did not provide reconciliation for angels like he did for mankind, which answers whether alien races would need their own version of Jesus. The speaker categorizes non-human intelligences into three groups: angels (good guys), fallen angels (bad guys), and other unknown entities.

• Colossians 1:15–17 establishes that Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, and by him all things were created
• Michael Heiser wrote "Reversing Hermon" and "The Unseen Realm," examining Jesus's life and ministry in relation to the watchers
• Christ did not provide reconciliation for angels like he did for mankind, which answers whether alien races would need their own version of Jesus
• The speaker categorizes non-human intelligences into three groups: angels (good guys), fallen angels (bad guys), and other unknown entities
• Many legacy program individuals experience "sundowner syndrome" and literally lose their mind due to unbearable psychological intensity

Peru Face-Peelers Investigation

In summer 2023, viral videos emerged from Peruvian Amazon villages featuring indigenous people being attacked by "pelacaras" (face peelers). Multiple villages in the Alto Nanai region were affected; bodies were recovered with faces partially surgically removed. Investigator Timothy organized an expedition with former infantry Marine and DHS special operator Doug Thornton to San Antonio de Pintoyaku. Villagers consistently described attackers wearing head-to-foot black armored bodysuits with almond-shaped tinted eye lenses (yellow or green), estimated at 6.5–7 feet tall, traveling on circular hoverboards with light-emitting discs on their boots.

• In summer 2023, viral videos emerged from Peruvian Amazon villages featuring indigenous people being attacked by "pelacaras" (face peelers)
• Multiple villages in the Alto Nanai region were affected; bodies were recovered with faces partially surgically removed
• Investigator Timothy organized an expedition with former infantry Marine and DHS special operator Doug Thornton
• Villagers consistently described attackers wearing head-to-foot black armored bodysuits with almond-shaped tinted eye lenses (yellow or green)
• The attackers were estimated at 6.5–7 feet tall and traveled on circular hoverboards with light-emitting discs on their boots
• Villagers shot at the attackers with 16-gauge shotguns loaded with birdshot at point-blank range with no effect; the BBs were heard "dinking" off the armor

The Talia Incident and Attempted Abduction

A 15-year-old girl named Talia experienced a detailed attempted abduction when two attackers arrived on hoverboards. The assailants activated lift technology on their boots, hovering her off the ground and carrying her behind a chicken coop. They injected something up her nose with a syringe to disorient her, applied numbing cream to her face, and began making an incision with what appeared to be a laser scalpel. One assailant warned the other, "Be careful. Don't put too much on her face. It'll ruin the flesh." Talia identified one assailant as an English-speaking "gringo" and the other as Peruvian.

• A 15-year-old girl named Talia experienced a detailed attempted abduction when two attackers arrived on hoverboards
• The assailants activated lift technology on their boots, hovering her off the ground and carrying her behind a chicken coop
• They injected something up her nose with a syringe to disorient her and applied numbing cream to her face
• The attackers began making an incision with what appeared to be a laser scalpel
• One assailant warned the other: "Be careful. Don't put too much on her face. It'll ruin the flesh."
• Talia identified one assailant as an English-speaking "gringo" and the other as Peruvian
• She escaped by pushing up one assailant's helmet; when he released her to pull his helmet down, she screamed and villagers arrived

Broader Pattern, Military Connection, and Whistleblower Link

Incursions occurred not only in remote jungle villages but also in the city of Ñaupe, which has 36,000 inhabitants and a Navy military presence, undermining the river miner theory. A joint military operation called "Resolute Sentinel" was taking place in Peru concurrent with the jungle incursions, involving Marines, Air Force, Navy, Space Force, Coast Guard, and multiple South American nations plus the UK. The episode references Michael Herrera, a UFO whistleblower who encountered a large octagonal craft in Indonesia that was "blacker than black" and was apprehended by paramilitary forces appearing to escort "psionic assets" onto an exotic craft.

• Incursions occurred not only in remote jungle villages but also in the city of Ñaupe, which has 36,000 inhabitants and a Navy military presence
• Peruvian officials absurdly attributed the attacks to "river miners with jetpack technology"
• A joint military operation called "Resolute Sentinel" was taking place in Peru concurrent with the jungle incursions
• Resolute Sentinel involved Marines, Air Force, Navy, Space Force, Coast Guard, and multiple South American nations plus the UK
• Michael Herrera, a UFO whistleblower, encountered a large octagonal craft in Indonesia that was "blacker than black"
• Herrera was apprehended by paramilitary forces appearing to escort "psionic assets" onto an exotic craft
• The connection drawn is that paramilitary organizations with advanced aerospace craft may be engaged in human trafficking and harvesting activities

Full Transcript

Show transcript

There was an age in which the gods were
dwelling on earth among men
and those beings came from somewhere.
>> The human species was originally created
designed intended to be a member of the
divine family.
This is an archetypal myth that cuts
across a lot of regions and cultures.
>> It's universal.
>> So, we have these watchers that came
down. They were extraterrestrial. They
mated with man. They created Nephilim.
And then we have evidence that a lot of
this actually holds astronomical weight
in the ancient world.
>> There are ruins of an ancient
civilization on the planet Mars,
specifically in the region of Sidonia.
And this what's so fascinating about
this is that the ancients believed that
the gods descended from Mars. We can
understand the modern phenomenon in
light of the book of Enoch.
>> Hearing about the book of Enoch and it
sounds a lot like Prometheus where you
have titans who tried to give mankind
sacred knowledge.
>> So these were very very intelligent
beings probably in possession of what I
would describe as advanced aerospace
technology. I myself have seen a UFO
right above my car and this thing just
descended and just hovered there like I
was supposed to see it. That is some top
secret.
>> Speaking of evidence of Nephilim and
this whole narrative, you're one of the
few people who has gone deep on this
phenomena of giants.
>> The story that has since become known as
the Kandahar giant.
This is where it begins. He was a cargo
pilot and he would describe these
missions as classified. And one day he's
flying in there. They said, "This never
happened. No pictures. Don't ever talk
about it." He sees a forklift bringing
over an air cargo pallet and there's
something on it.
And he said the first thing that hit him
was the odor like bo and death. The hair
of this being was red. The skin was
pale. He said it had six fingers on each
hand and six toes on each foot. And he
said this thing was solid as a rock. So
you can imagine let's say it was 12 feet
tall. The whole thing weighed 1,100 lb.
>> That's pretty crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> How is this possible?
>> Nothing too unusual about that.
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today's episode.
I'm here with Timothy Alberino and I
could not be more excited to speak with
you. I have been just going through all
your stuff, all your podcasts, your
book, your amazing book called
Birthright, which is really awesome
because I think people in this space,
it's always an anecdotal story that's
really crazy and interesting. You have a
lot of those anecdotal stories. I want
to talk to you about the Peruvian face
peelers. I want to talk to you about the
giants of Kandahar, all of these amazing
things that you cover. you're this kind
of modern larger than life adventurer,
but you also uh are I think a really
impressive kind of philosopher and sense
maker and you do such a great job in
this book Birthright, which I recommend
people get uh in reconciling
uh the whole kind of alien, you know,
NHI phenomena, which is now kind of all
the rage with kind of the modern
disclosure movement, but with ancient
traditions and with the Bible and Plato.
and um in the book of Enoch, which is
where I kind of want to start this
conversation. So, I appreciate what
you're doing. I think it's really cool.
What does the Book of Enoch hold in
terms of relevance for our life and our
world today?
>> Enoch provides
the foundation for Hebrew cosmology as
it pertains to the anti-dolivian world.
So you cannot separate what I call the
Anakian narrative or the Anunnakic
tradition. You cannot separate that out
from the biblical narrative. It is
fundamental
to how the Hebrews, the ancient Hebrews
view the anti-olivian world, the world
before the flood.
And not only is it the the ancient
Hebraic view, it's the view of our ant
descendants across the board. The
ancient Egyptians, the Mesopotamians,
the Greeks, the Romans, they all viewed
the anti-dolivian world in a particular
way, namely that it was a time of great
learning. It's a time when the the
fundamentals of civilization were
imparted to mankind from
extraterrestrial entities.
And in the pagan world, and pagan just
means everybody but the Hebrews. In the
pagan world, this was known as the
golden age or zeppy to the ancient
Egyptians. And it was a time when the
gods co-mingled with mankind. Literally,
they procreated with human women. They
progenerated
a race of hybrid demigods in the earth.
In many accounts, these demigods were
giants, such as in the biblical account
and the Mesopot, the ancient
Mesopotamian account, the epic of
Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh himself was a
giant. And so, these traditions are
ubiquitous across the earth.
And this is how civilization began in
the minds of our ants. Again, whether it
be the Hebrew account, you know, the
Judeo-Christian account or the pagan
accounts.
Now, among the Jews,
there was no greater prophet and scribe.
And these are important terms, prophet
and scribe than Enoch. Enoch was the
greatest pre flood patriarch. He was
revered above all others. And the Bible
says very little about Enoch. It says
that he walked with God uh for 365 years
and then God took him.
Um and that's pretty much all the Bible
says of Enoch. And there's a couple of
references in the New Testament. But it
it always was strange to me as I was a
teenager thinking and and reading the
the scant information provided in the
biblical text concerning Enoch, who
clearly was the greatest pre flood
patriarchy. The Bible has much to say
about its other prophets and scribes.
The Bible says a whole lot about Moses.
It says a whole lot about Elijah.
It says a whole lot about Noah. It says
almost nothing about Enoch.
And it occurred to me when I was
probably
um I think I was 16 years old. I just
had gotten my driver's license and and
my father was a pastor. So I grew up in
a very very good home. I had a very very
good upbringing. My dad was a excellent
father and pastor and I had a wonderful
mother. My mother died when I was 14. Um
but I remember when I was 16 years old I
I I drove to
um Borders.
That's the one that went out of
business, right? Borders.
>> Yeah, Borders. I drove to a Borders
bookstore and I remember I was perusing
the aisles just sort of wanted to to to
buy a a book and I was I was
particularly interested in the
pseudapagrapha
and I pulled this the pseudapagrapha off
the shelf. It was this big, you know,
ancient looking book that they had there
in Borders and I was most interested in
the book of Enoch. had heard about the
book of Enoch and I didn't really know
what it was. And so I remember pulling
it off the shelf and sitting down on a
bench in Borders and opening it up and
and sort of skimming through the book of
Enoch. I was instantly cap captivated
and I bought it and I took it home and
that sort of began my my fascination
with the anti-dolivian world because
what the book of Enoch does is it
it provides as I said earlier it
provides the the the found the
foundation of of Hebrew cosmology in
regard to the anti-dolivian world
and I remember um reading
when I was a teenager
reading the verses in Genesis 6, those
enigmatic verses inscribed in Genesis 6
about the sons of God who saw the
daughters of men that they were
beautiful and they came down and they
took wives of all whom they chose and
they calculated with these women and
progenerated a race of giants in the
earth called the Nephilim.
But that was it. Just this little
footnote. It's a it's a it is a a
bizarre digression in the Genesis
narrative. And this precedes the flood.
The next chapter is the flood.
>> And and then you get to the New
Testament
and and you see Peter referencing the
angels who sinned
>> and as a result are chained in in the in
the the the gloomy abyss, Tartarus.
Jude
takes verbatim from the book of Enoch.
He copies and pastes into his epistle
a few verses straight out of first Enoch
and it's the same sort of and and and
the the it comes from the book of the
watchers and the book of the watchers in
first Enoch is the story of the descent
of these beings of these heavenly beings
these celestial beings
and you realize when you read the book
of Enoch that the reference in Genesis 6
is an abridged verse version. It's it's
it's just an abridged
um it's a it's a cliffnote basically of
a story that was clearly already well
known by the audience. So the the author
of Genesis when he when he inserts into
Genesis 6 again this bizarre digression
of the Genesis narrative about these
heavenly beings, the sons of God who
descend and co-mingle with the daughters
of men and and and copulate with them.
The reason he doesn't expand on that
story is because it was already well
known from oral tradition, but I also
think from written tradition, namely the
book of Enoch or some version of the
book of Enoch. So the story was was
already so well known to the to the
audience that the writer of Genesis,
whether it was Moses or someone else,
didn't need to retrace
the details of this story. It was so
well known. It was so essential to the
fabric of their cosmology.
And and indeed the book of Enoch lays
out this story. So what does it say? The
book of Enoch says that in the days of
Jared who was the sixth from Adam, Jared
was the father of Enoch.
That these heavenly beings which the
book of Enoch denominates as watchers.
And the watcher denomination is not
exclusive to extra biblical texts. It's
in the Bible. It's in the book of
Daniel.
um that these these beings called the
Watchers, 200 of them,
decided that they were going to descend
to the earth or maybe they were already
on the earth, but that they were going
to
uh they wanted to take wives from the
daughters of men. They wanted to wed the
maidens, these these the daughters of
Adam because they were beautiful and
they wanted to procreate with them and
and they wanted to to to to essentially
to make families to sire offspring.
And these watchers
knew these 200 watchers knew that this
was a grave transgression. And so before
they did this thing, they bound
themselves on the summit of Mount
Hermon. According to the Book of Enoch,
they descended on the summit of Mount
Hermon
and they bound themselves by an oath of
mutual impreations. In other words,
we're all in this together and we're all
going to suffer the consequences
whatever fall. So they bind themselves
with an oath. And that's why to this
day, Mount Hermon is known as the
mountain of oath.
And
so after binding themselves by a oath of
mutual imprecations, they descend into
the plains. They choose for themselves
wives. And then they make a transaction,
I believe, with the with the fathers of
these maidens.
A dowy of sorts is paid. They they
provide the the the fathers provide
their daughter's hand in marriage, the
maidens. And the watchers in turn as a
dowry. Remember this is a very
patriarchal society in the pre- flood
world. The fathers give their daughter's
hand away. It's not like today where you
know it's mutual agreement. Let's get
married. In the in in the anti-dolivian
world and even in the ancient postalvian
world and still is the case in some
parts of the earth the father gives the
daughter's hand in marriage in exchange
for something a dowy. And so the
watchers received the daughter's hands
in marriage from the fathers and they in
turn gave the fathers
information knowledge forbidden
knowledge. Book of Enoch says they gave
them the knowledge that they were that
the men were striving to learn.
And this I think this was technological
knowledge
sc what we would call today scientific
knowledge.
And then the watchers, just as it says
in Genesis 6, they they copulate with
their wives who conceive and give birth
to a race of giants called the Nephilim.
And then what results is men are
corrupted by the forbidden knowledge of
the Watchers. the giants grow to a
enormous size and ultimately begin to
consume all of the acquisitions of the
land so that men can no longer sustain
their appetite. So, human beings were
basically subjugated to these to this
hybrid
race of giants. And they were spending
all of their time and energy feeding
them. And when they could no longer
satisfy their enormous appetites, the
giants began to devour mankind.
And it's at this point that men begin to
cry out to God and the court of heaven
hears the appeal of mankind and God
dispatches some angels to the earth. He
causes the he binds the watchers. But by
the way, I should say this is nobody
knows the duration of time from when the
watchers descend in the days of Jared
>> to the to the flood of Noah.
At the very least, you're looking at
hundreds of years, if not thousands of
years of this going on on planet Earth.
And then so the Watchers are dispatched.
I mean, the the angels are dispatched to
the earth, they bind the watchers. But
before the Watchers are incarcerated in
the abyss, they're forced to watch the
destruction of the of their beloved sons
of the giants who are enticed who are
incited to war with one another. So you
have this fratricidal war that takes
place among the giants.
And I I describe this as the empire of
the gods because it's not like you know
big dumb dis giants from Disney movies
when we were growing up you know bashing
each other over the head with clubs.
These were exceptionally intelligent
beings.
Their fathers the book of Enoch says
taught them and their and their wives.
They instructed them in in their
knowledge. So these they were receiving
the instruction of their fathers. So
these were very very intelligent beings
probably in possession of what I would
describe as advanced
>> technology maybe even advanced aerospace
technology which I do believe existed in
the anti-dolivian world. I think that's
how the watchers got to the summit of
Mount Hermon by the way at the helms at
the helms of of of advanced aerospace
vehicles what we would describe today as
UFOs.
And so to close out this story, the
Watchers uh rather the giants go to war
with each other. I believe this is a
technological war.
And then
the flood ensues, the great flood. And
the flood was intended to to cleanse the
earth of the abominable seed of the
watchers
and to reset mankind.
So that's an encapsulation, a
summarization of uh of what the the
first section of the book of watchers
describes the rather the book of Enoch
called the book of watchers.
>> It's a great summary. If I were a
biblical scholar,
would I have any points around the book
of Enoch to say that it's oh, it's just
apocryphal and it's not connected to the
Bible. And what would you what would you
say to those points?
Well,
um, nearly all scholars agree that the
book of Enoch provides the cosmological
substrate,
>> um, for the ancient Hebrews. Uh, there's
no doubt about that. I mean, the the the
story is referenced indirectly in the
Old Testament, obviously, Genesis 6 and
in other other portions, but also in the
New Testament. In fact, when you get to
the New Testament, you find Jesus of
Nazareth
using a title, a very specific title,
the title he preferred
more than any other. It's a messianic
title, but it doesn't come from the Old
Testament. It comes exclusively from the
book of Enoch.
>> And that title is the son of man.
Now, there were several titles that
Jesus could have employed when
referencing himself, messianic titles,
and he did use various titles, the son
of God, for example, which he was,
but he uses the son of man the most. And
there is no reference. It's that that is
a proper title, the son of man.
So the only reference in the Old
Testament that that scholars will go to
is a reference in the book of Daniel
where Daniel sees one like a son of man.
But that is a descriptor that is saying
like I saw I saw one who looked like a
human being
>> like an offspring of Adam.
>> It's not a proper title. The proper
title the son of man comes from first
Enoch specifically from the second
section of first Enoch which is called
the parables. M
>> and the parables are the oracles of
Enoch and the oracles of Enoch pertain
primarily to the son of man and were
fulfilled clearly fulfilled in Jesus of
Nazareth. Now
um there is some dispute in regard to
when the the the parables were authored
or compiled. The book of Enoch. First of
all, the book of Enoch is a compilation
of texts with several authors and and
the various sections of Enoch were
probably written at different time,
different periods of time. The oldest
section, namely the book of the Watchers
containing this the the Enochian tale of
the Watchers that was written at least
cir circa 300 BC.
>> But I think that the the oral tradition
at least is way older. I think it's
began with Enoch. And in fact, the the
Hebrews believed
that Enoch was the all was the inventor
of writing that he was the first to
write
and remember Enoch was revered as a
prophet and a scribe. So he prophesied
and he wrote
>> and it and the tradition says that those
writings were delivered ultimately to
Noah and preserved through the flood. So
is it possible that portions of first
Enoch actually originate thousands of
years ago? Maybe the very first writing
ever conceived by the human species was
written by the hand of Enoch. And that's
why people the contention here is mostly
from the secular world that the Bible is
all of the stories in the Bible are just
copies of the more ancient Mesopotamian
texts.
Well, sure, but what if the the the
foundation for those stories goes all
the way back to Enoch?
Then everybody's copying Enoch, and
everybody has a is a version of what
Enoch wrote,
>> right? And it's very possible in my mind
that the Hebrews have the most faithful
um rendition of what was of the oral
traditions and of of the of in in in
fact of the written compositions that
came from the anti-dolubian world which
far predate the ancient Mesopotamians.
>> And Enoch was related to Noah. Is that
right?
>> Yes. Yes. I believe Enoch was his great
greatgrandfather.
Uh Enoch was the father of Methuselah
who was the father of Lamech who was the
father of Noah.
>> Interesting. And yeah in the Old
Testament you have the Methuselah a lot
of these guys lived for very long
periods as well which I think caused you
to ask all sorts of
>> 900 plus years.
>> That's right. Yeah. It's so fascinating
how how is it found? How is the book of
Enoch discovered?
>> The Book of Enoch was preserved by the
Ethiopians.
Um, and had the had had the Ethiopians
not preserved the book of Enoch, we
would not have it to this day
>> because it was clearly expuned
from the scriptorums of the Middle East
and the West. There was controversy, a
lot of controversy in the early church
age over the book of Enoch. Some of the
early church fathers wanted to
incorporate it into the canon. So there
was a debate, an ongoing debate that
what what cannot be denied is that the
book of Enoch was is that the early
church was conversant
>> with what we call first Enoch today. Now
there's clearly a different manuscript
in circulation because some of the early
church fathers cite the book of Enoch
and they're citing portions of of of the
book of Enoch which we don't have today.
>> Interesting.
>> In what we call first Enoch, but then
they also cite portions which we do. So
some of these early church fathers were
referenced the book of Enoch as
scripture.
>> In fact in the fourth around the 4th
century uh AD the Tawaho Orthodox
Christians
and the beta Israel Jew Jewish community
in Ethiopia incorporated the book of
Enoch into their canon. That's why they
preserved it. So to this day, if you
visit Ethiopia and you visit a synagogue
or you visit an Orthodox church, among
the scriptures that we have in in in our
canon in the west, you'll find the the
book of
>> Enoch
and and some other apocryphal works as
well. They revered the book of Enoch and
so they preserved it. So,
um, but as I said, the early church was
undoubtedly undoubtedly conversant
with portions of what we call today
first Enoch. And, and what I was going
to say before was you have the book of
Enoch attested in the Old and New
Testament.
And when you read the parables, the
oracles of Enoch, which are primarily
um prophecies pertaining to the Messiah,
to the Christ, again, fulfilled in Jesus
of Nazareth.
Clearly,
you realize that the writers of the New
Testament derived much of their
esquetology and christologology,
>> their theology regarding the Messiah
directly from the oracles of Enoch. Mhm.
>> And in fact, there are citations
throughout the New Testament that are
not found in the Old Testament,
references, indirect references that are
only to be found in the book of Enoch.
So, um it's so scholars will say,
you know, it's divided the scholarly
community. There's lots of difference
in opinions there in regard to the book
of Enoch. They all will concede that
that the earliest portions of Enoch are
are were compiled around 300 BC.
Some scholars will say that the book
that the parables again containing those
messianic prophecies were compiled
some sometime around 100 AD. Um, there's
a lot of debate about that, but because
precisely because it's apparent that the
authors of the New Testament are are
deriving so much of their theology from
the parables of Enoch. Um, and so it's I
it's it's hard for some scholars to to
believe that these that these prophecies
which are so astonishingly accurate
uh fulfilled clearly fulfilled as I keep
saying in Jesus of Nazareth that those
could have been written before the
advent of Christ. I believe they were. I
believe that the oracles of Enoch are
ancient.
>> That that first Enoch um that the
earliest portions of first Enoch, namely
the book of the Watchers and the oracles
of Enoch were written by his hand.
That's what or some version of them, you
know, carried through the flood
in the form of oral tradition at the
very least and then someone later
compiled them. Is there uh some sort of
control mandate or something? If you
think of the council of Nika and you
know creating the modern cannon.
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> Is there a reason to specifically get
rid of the book of Enoch because it's
sort of subversive or reverent in some
way?
>> Yes. Because the prevailing view became
especially because of um uh Augustine
>> or Augustine Iris, forget how to
pronounce his name. uh the saint uh
>> because he was a he was a proponent he
was a he was a proponent of what's
called um the nons supernatural view of
Genesis 6 the supernatural view of
Genesis 6 is that that the sons of God
were the angels of heaven clearly this
is the case because in the Septuagent
which is the Greek translation of the of
the old testament which was in
circulation during the time of Christ
and and certainly during the early
church. Um this is the the this was the
manuscript that um the non-Jewish
converts were reading was the Septuagent
of the Old Testament, right? So it's a
it's a translation of the Tanakh, the
Hebrew Old Testament into Greek.
>> And in the Septuagent, when you read
Genesis 6,
it doesn't say the sons of God. It says
the angels of God.
>> So that's definitive. These are not
human beings. These are celestial
beings. And this was the prevailing view
um until
probably the 2 century AD when the Jews,
the Jewish community um they
uh they preferred the nons supernatural
rendering rendering of that of that
verse. And and what they did was uh they
said that the the sons of God in Genesis
6 that that populated with the daughters
of Adam that these were noble men from
the line of Seth
>> and or the Sethites is what they call
this called the Sethite theory. And
these were not heavenly beings. These
were just men. And the church adopted
that position. They followed suit and
they adopted that position. um primarily
because of St. Augustine
and and so that became the prevailing
view and it is the prevailing view to
this day. Although the tides are
turning, more and more people are
realizing that that's preposterous based
on the based on by the way the story of
Enoch
the Enochian tale is attested not just
in Enoch
>> but in several Dead Sea Scroll
manuscripts
>> including the book of giants
>> uh the book of Jubilees,
>> the Genesis Apocryphan
>> and others. all all of these and in
there's no question
>> that um that the supernatural view of
Genesis 6 was the prevailing view during
the second temple period. No question
whatsoever. And then you combine that
with the Zeppi, with the Greek gods,
with like all of these other kind of
myths across disperate cultures all
involving sort of demigod like little G
gods and then some sort of flood and
it's like okay this maybe we should stop
treating this just as myth and start
treating it as history. Plato and Solon
and all you know.
>> Yeah,
>> you you it's just a you know kind of
>> ubiquitous you know
>> the difference is this is kind of what
makes the Hebrew account unique. The
difference is those other cultures
they viewed the anti-delivvian world
through a lit a laudatory prism. In
other words, they viewed it as this
wonderful time of peace and prosperity
of the sharing of knowledge from the
gods to mankind. That the gods, as I
said earlier, were establishing
um the the the the foundations of
civilization, of learning, of science,
were imparting them to mankind. And that
the world that existed in the
anti-dolivian world was in every way
vastly superior
>> to to their own civilizations to their
post flood postc cataclysmic
civilizations
postc cataclysm civilizations that they
they when they look back into the past
very this is antithetical to the way we
look back into the past. So when we as
moderns when we look back into the past
we see this you know the timeline of
history right we are in our minds we're
the pinnacle of civilization right now.
We're the pinnacle of learning,
scientific learning. We're the smartest
human beings ever to exist on planet
Earth. Everybody that preceded preceded
us was was inferior to us intellectually
speaking. And and there's this this
gradual retrograde of civilization as
you go backwards on the timeline of
history. So you start from superior
modern man and then you you you progress
backward through history and people are
getting dumber and dumber and dumber and
dumber until you get into the Neolithic
and you've got cavemen, right? You've
got these just these these Neolithic
dummies basically, you know, one step
removed from from chimpanzees.
>> That's not how the ancients viewed the
past.
>> Quite the opposite. The way that our
antennants viewed the anti-dolivian
world was that they were like children
>> trying to recover some vestage of the
knowledge of the glory of the
magnificence of their anticcendants that
existed in the world before the
cataclysm. they when they went backward
in time, it wasn't a gradual um decrease
in the knowledge and sophistication of
of civilization, but rather
the the civilizations that preceded them
in the anti-dolivian world were vastly
superior to them.
>> Speaking of which, you said something
amazing earlier. You said you think that
that time period those sort of demigod
creatures used advanced aerospace
vehicles and you know I think of the
Vimmanas is kind of the you know
proverbial example of this. Do you have
is there any other evidence that they
actually had kind of technological you
know aerial vehicles obviously we have
to go to texts and
>> you have to go to texts. Yeah. So I
don't know of any archaeological
evidence.
>> Sure.
>> Of course you have anecdotal you have
anecdotal accounts like Bob Lazar. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Who said that uh you know among the
craft that he saw in the hangers at the
S4 facility,
>> he was told that one of them had been
retrieved from an archaeological site.
>> That's right.
>> It was very ancient. Not the one he
worked on, not the sports model, but uh
but a different one had been
>> allegedly he and he didn't know if this
was true or not, but allegedly it had
been recovered from an ancient burial
site, an ancient an archaeological dig.
>> Um so yeah, I I I don't have any problem
with that. Um, you know, when you when
you look back into the again, this is a
period of time that the ancients
described as the golden age. And what I
was illustrating earlier was that to in
in in in the mind of of of the pagan
cultures, this this was the pinnacle of
of mankind of civilization and it was a
time of peace and prosperity. But from
the Hebraic p perception, it it was this
was this was a dystopian nightmare. This
was a time of great oppression, the
empire of the gods, when essentially the
watchers were governing the the earth by
proxy behind the thrones of their hybrid
giant offspring who were devouring
mankind, who were oppressing mankind. It
was a time of unparalleled bloodshed and
sorcery and and all manner of
transgression against the king of
heaven. That's the difference. M
>> so from the from the pagan worldview
these the these were the the gods were
like our prometheian benefactors. They
stole fire from the gods and and gave it
to mankind. But from the Hebraic
perspective these watchers were evil.
They were uh these were malevolent
beings and and their the their intention
was to deceive mankind and that mankind
was corrupted by the knowledge that was
given to them. the forbidden secrets as
the book of Enoch has it and that all of
this activity led to the flood
>> to the destruction of the world. Um so
that's that's that's a very different
view of the anti-dolivian age.
>> Yes.
>> From the hebraic perspective,
do you think this book is not just this
kind of you know past thing about you
know kind of metaphysics pre you know uh
uh flood and do you think it holds
relevance today? Where are where are the
watchers today?
>> Yes, it does. So to your first question,
according to the book of Enoch and the
Bible in the New Testament, according to
Peter, according to Jude, the watchers
are currently chained up in Peter calls
it Tarderus,
>> the abyss
>> in in in the gloomy darkness.
And this is directly from the book of
Enoch. So when the angels were
dispatched to bind the watchers,
remember the watchers were first forced
to watch the destruction of their
beloved sons. in this fratricidal civil
war which again I think was
technological
and and then they were they were they
were imprisoned they were incarcerated
and they're still incarcerated to this
day
>> and according to the book of Enoch
they're going to be incarcerated
until the end of the age when the age is
fully consummated. That's what the book
of Enoch says. And until the day of
judgment so until the very end. Now,
there's some um biblical commentators,
some colleagues of mine who believe that
the Watchers are going to be released at
the end of the age
>> and that they're going to create a lot
of the havoc that you see unfolding in
the earth in the book of Revelation.
>> I don't know. I personally think that
the book of Enoch is pretty explicit
that the Watchers are going to be
chained until the day of judgment, which
would mean all the way to the very end
when when the when the great judge
returns to the earth. By the way, I
should probably um this is a little bit
of a digression, but here's another
illustration
um another at testation of the book of
Enoch in the New Testament. Jesus was in
in the land of Gdara with his disciples
and and and he was approached by a man
that a man who the Bible describes or or
two men depending on which gospel you're
reading uh who who's who's described as
the Gatherine demoniac because he was
full of a legion of demons. You recall
this story.
>> So Jesus disembarks on the shore of
Gdara. this demon-possessed man who has
a legion of demons inside of him comes
running up to Jesus and throws himself
at his feet
and he declares, "We know who you are,
you son of God." And then he says, "Why
have you come to torment us before the
appointed time?"
>> And that always puzzled me when I was,
you know, growing up as a teenager
reading that. What do you mean before
the appointed time? What does that mean?
They recognized that Jesus was that son
of man from the oracles of Enoch, the
son of God,
and that there was an appointed time of
judgment for them. So why were they
freaking out? Because they recognized
two things. They recognized that Jesus
was the great judge. He was the judge
who was going to judge them at the
appointed time. And the second thing
they recognized was it wasn't time yet.
>> But here's the judge. What are you doing
here? It's not time yet. you're you're
you're early.
Now, where does that come from?
Doesn't come from the Old Testament.
>> It comes from the book of Enoch,
>> right?
>> Because um when the
giant when the giants destroy themselves
in this fratricidal war,
they're cursed. God puts a curse on them
because they're not fully of their of
their celestial fathers, the Watchers,
and they're not fully of their human
mothers.
So they're they're unsanctioned sentient
beings. And so they're cursed
to when they die and their spirits
depart from their bodies, their spirits
are now going to be forced to wander the
earth as disembodied vagabond wraiths.
>> But the curse is this. They're going to
have all of the desires of the flesh.
They're going to be hungry, thirsty,
presumably have all of the sexual
impulses of the flesh, but without
corporeal bodies through which to
satiate these desires to satisfy them.
That's the curse. And you'll probably
recall that this was the Mayan curse in
the curse of the Mayan gold in Pirates
of the Caribbean.
>> Remember?
>> Yeah.
>> That's the Nephil that's the Nephilimic
curse in Pirates of the Caribbean.
Barbosa and his crew were they were
deathless basically. They couldn't die
but neither could they enjoy anything
while they were alive perpetually. And
remember Barbosa wanted to bite into the
apple and it was revealed I forget in
the story I think on a full moon or
whatever that they were like these
wraiths and they couldn't enjoy anything
and so they desperately wanted to break
the curse. That was the premise of the
story and that's exactly the situation
of the spirits of dead giants. And this
is where you get the origin of demons
>> in the New Testament and in the Old
Testament. Demons according to ancient
Hebrew cosmology are the disembodied
spirits of dead giants that persist in
the world. Evil spirits.
>> That's like the definition.
>> That's the definition. Wow.
>> And in the book of Enoch,
uh the judgment that comes that comes
against the giants says, "You will be
called evil spirits in the earth or
unclean spirits in the earth and you
will wander the earth. You'll have all
of the you you'll be hungry. You'll be
thirsty, but you won't be able to
satisfy your your the desires of your
flesh because you won't have any flesh."
And so, what do these beings do? What do
these disembodied spirits do? They seek
to inhabit
>> human flesh. They possess human beings
in order to attempt to satiate these
desires. That's why they inhabit the
body. So fast forward to the New
Testament. And you have Jesus of
Nazareth encountering and his disciples
encountering people who are
demonpossessed. And they recognize who
he is. And he tells them to be quiet in
a couple of occasions because they say,
"We know who you are, you son of God."
Right? And so now fast forwarding to the
the Gatherine Demoniac who who's
inhabited by a legion of demons.
Oh, and I I actually I actually skipped
the most imperative point here. Going
back to the book of Enoch, part of the
curse was this was going to be your lot.
This was going to be your curse to the
spirits of the dead giants until the
great judge appears
>> to judge the living and the dead until
the day of judgment.
And then they will be judged with
finality
>> and cast into the into the uh lake of
fire. And and so the the the legion of
demons recognizes that Jesus is the
great judge
>> from the oracles of Enoch
and and and as I said before knows that
the time is not yet come for their final
judgment.
>> That comes directly from the book of
Enoch. So, it's just another
illustration of how the the themes the
Enochic traditions and themes are woven
through the Old and New Testament. And
that's a digression um from what we're
talking about.
>> No, it's fascinating. And a a burning
question I have is you have this
conversation around UFO disclosure to
alien beings or, you know, non-human
intelligence. You have uh Congresswoman
Anna Pina Luna going on Joe Rogan.
That's right. and saying, you know, read
the book of Enoch, that somehow is
important for this whole story.
>> Like, imagine a world in which if Enoch
was left in the Bible. And people were
like, wait, what happened?
>> Okay, so if you read it, it talks about
the fall of angels, um, thus creating
really the precursor of civilization
that led to the first flood. Um, I think
that when you even go into potentially
the technology that was given to mankind
by these angels, it talks about the
hidden um, beliefs and and theories in
astronomy etc. metal workings, all of
it. If you have this information
pertaining to UAPs, whatever might they
they might be the origins. I mean, if
you have a understanding of what Enoch
was talking about, kind of makes sense.
So what does this clearly, you know, not
so apocryphal, actually probably core
text in the book of Enoch and the
Nephilim and the Watchers, what does
that have to do with modern kind of
alien UFO disclosure?
>> Well, um,
so generally speaking, what do you have
in the book of Enoch and in Genesis 6
are extraterrestrial beings descending
to the Earth.
>> And why do you think that?
Well, because they are by nature
extraterrestrial. This is a this is one
of the things that I I I talk about my
book birthright.
Um so I think the word extraterrestrial
is a very uh useful word. It's a very
useful term because extraterrestrial
simply means a being whose provenence is
not planet earth.
>> So a being whose origin is not the earth
that's an extra terrestrial. Of course,
we're contextualizing this term
within the context of sentient beings.
I'm not talking about amiebas here or
something like that or bacteria.
Although those would also be considered
extraterrest extraterrestrial bacteria.
Should we find bacteria on Mars? Those
would be defined as extraterrestrial
bacteria, right? Because they're not
from the earth. Even if they're very
similar to bacteria on Earth, well,
they're extraterrestrial because they're
not from the Earth. So, it's a very
accurate term, very useful term. Now,
um, opponents of mine will say, "Wait,
that's not a biblical term." Well, I
would like to highlight that neither is
the term fallen angels
>> a biblical term,
>> right?
>> And a lot of people think it is. It's
not. You'll never you will not find
fallen angels in the Bible. Doesn't
exist.
>> Now, the concept is biblical.
>> The concept of a quote unquote fallen
angel is very biblical. These a fallen
angel are defected sons of God. They are
apostate sons of God. They're angelic
beings who defected from the kingdom and
now are in opposition to God.
We all understand that that's what
fallen angel means. So in the same way
the word extraterrestrial doesn't show
up in the biblical text or extra
biblical text. They didn't use that
terminology back then. But the concept
is accurate is biblically accurate in
that you have beings who are clearly not
from planet earth whose providence is
not planet earth and in and indeed whose
origin is pre-existent to mankind. They
pre-exist us. This is clear especially
in the book of Job where we read that
the morning stars sang together
>> and the sons of God shouted for joy
>> as the foundations of the earth were
being laid or depending on how you view
that as the earth was being renewed
previous to the creation of mankind. So
here you have sentient
extraterrestrial beings by definition.
There's they're not on the earth.
They're observing the creation or the
reformation of the earth depending on
your theological worldview. And they are
celebrating it. They're shouting for
joy. And the designation morning star
and sons of God, morning stars and sons
of God is very important because morning
stars, the the Bible uses the stars as a
metaphor for angelic beings, for
celestial beings.
>> So a morning star, what that designates
are beings who were created early on who
who who are pre-existent.
>> You know, they're the first beings to
appear. In other words, the stars you
see in the morning, it's like those are
the the the the morning stars. These are
the beings who appear at the at the
beginning of creation, the first
sentient beings. So, I think they're
very old. And and furthermore, they're
called sons of God.
>> Which is very important because that's a
designation. That's a fam familial
designation.
These aren't just whatever sentient
beings. These are sons of God. These are
members of the family. This becomes very
important in the biblical text and this
is something that I articulate in
birthright
is is that Adam was created to be a son
of God
>> using that same familial language. Um
and that we through Christ become the
sons of God according to Jesus of
Nazareth being by the way sons of the
resurrection. So um so this is a there's
a family dynamic here.
The Bible uses these familial terms
because there's a family. There's a
divine family. And when you when you
read the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth,
you know, it traces Jesus through Joseph
or through Mary, depending on which
genealogy you're reading, back through
David, back through Abraham, back into
the pre-flood world, through Enoch, and
all the way back to Adam. And when you
get to Adam, it says Adam, the son of
God.
So what the Bible is signaling here is
that Adam, the human species, was
originally created, designed, intended
to be a member of the divine family.
>> And so this ties into the gospel of
Christ later on because you you you
understand when Jesus shows up on the
scene,
I hope you don't mind me digressing into
a bit of theology here. when when Jesus
shows up on the scene,
uh
he makes it abundantly clear that his
mission is to is to bring back the
prodical sons back into the family of
God. That he gives us power to become
the sons of God. So in other words,
that's that's really the message of the
gospel that that you were once members
of this family. You were once members of
the divine family in Adam and that was
the intention that mankind was in my
estimation created for two purposes.
Number one to commune with the creator
with the maker and with the other with
his with who I describe in birthright as
his elder siblings these other sentient
beings the other sons of God who
pre-exist mankind to to fellowship in
the family of God. That's the primary
purpose. And then secondarily to govern
the earth,
>> to govern planet earth.
>> And these these these theological
threads become very very important
>> when you get to the the the discussions
that are currently happening in about
extraterrestrials
and how we ought to view that coming
from a a Christian perspective at least.
And so the the whole point of the gospel
is to return the sons and daughters back
to the family of God illustrated by the
way in in the parable of the prodigal
son.
So you have these sons of God who
pre-exist mankind. They're not clearly
they're not human and they're not from
planet Earth. They are therefore by
definition extraterrestrial.
The the celestial beings they're
extraterrestrial. Now, you can quibble
over whether or not they come from a a
literal extraterrestrial
world, like a a different planet in the
universe, or they come from some kind of
a spiritual world, like a a different, I
guess, dimension. Or you could just say
they're they're interdimensional beings.
They come from a different dimension. It
doesn't matter which of these you
choose. You're still talking about
beings whose origin, whose provenence is
not planet Earth. M
>> they are therefore unequivocally
extraterrestrial. So these these this
describes the beings who descended in
the days of Jared according to the book
of Enoch in Genesis 6.
These beings came from some
extraterrestrial realm. Again whether
you think it's a interdimensional realm
like Anapoleon Luna whatever it doesn't
really matter.
>> And this lines up by the way with
Sumerian myth. You have the Anunnaki
lines up with Greek myths where you have
these titans and they're the sons of
God. And you know, I'm hearing about the
book of Enoch and it sounds a lot like
Prometheus, by the way, where you have
this sort of rebel faction of titans who
try to give mankind sacred knowledge and
that are, you know, in his case, I think
he's chained up to a rock and uh, you
know, Vulture has to pick at his liver
like constantly.
This is an archetypal myth that cuts ac
>> the universal
testimony of our of our antence is that
there was an age previous to a great
flood or a great cataclysm
in which the gods were dwelling on earth
among men imparting their knowledge
establishing civilization the benchmark
the trademarks of civilization
and that those beings came from
somewhere.
>> And specifically, this is, by the way,
what the late researcher extraordinaire
David Flynn
>> unfolds in his book Sidonia, which was
the most, as I was telling you earlier,
the book Sidonia, that's the most
consequential consequential book I've
ever read in my entire life.
>> You got me a copy. I really appreciate
it.
>> Yeah,
>> it looks amazing. It's it's and his uh
his his daughter Ty who I'm friends
with. I'm I'm very good friends with his
his his twin brother Mark who's who's
brilliant in his own right. Author
himself and his daughter Ty and his son
Alexander. And uh and I'm so excited
that Ty because it was basically out of
print for a long time. There's there was
a couple places you could find it but it
was extreme. That book was that book
before Flynn's daughter reprinted it. It
was going for two and $3,000.
>> Wow. online. Um, and then she reprinted
it now. You can get it for like 25 bucks
on Amazon. But Flynn Flynn um, uh,
really unpacks a lot of this in that
book. And it really that provided sort
of the substrate for my book,
Birthright. And and what Flynn uh
proves, I would say definitively,
>> is that not only did the ancients
believe that the gods descended to the
earth in the anti-olivan world in in the
during the golden age, but that they
came from somewhere very specific. They
came from a planet in our solar system.
>> Which planet?
>> Well, there's it's which planets?
primarily there's there's a planet that
um that Flynn talks about which is which
is you know sort of in in in in popular
culture it's referred to as Krypton.
That's where you get the the Superman
mythology from. Um, but the ancients
also had a krypton in mind, a destroyed
planet, a destroyed realm from which the
gods descended or destroy destroyed
realms uh more specifically. And one of
these planets uh Flynn believed and I
and I believe this as well. I write it
in Birthright is actually named in the
biblical text cryptically.
>> It's called Rahab.
>> Wow. and that this planet there was this
there was this conflict that erupted in
the cosmos long before the creation of
mankind because in Flynn's view and I
completely concur our solar system was
inhabited by a nonhuman
extraterrestrial race of angelic beings.
>> So Flynn viewed this very much not as
sort of like an interdimensional thing
but literally the planets were
inhabited. That's why on the cover of uh
that book there, you have the ruined uh
the ruined structures on Mars. And I
believe of course most of us are
familiar with the Sidonia region of
Mars, the alleged face on Mars. Richard
Hogland was uh
>> um instrumental in in in in um
publicizing this back in the 90s. And in
fact, Richard Hogland would did a series
of conferences with David Flynn
>> and sometimes they were accompanied by
the late Michael Heiser,
the scholar. And uh and they really, as
I said, really publicized the idea that
there are ruins on the planet Mars,
ruins of an ancient advanced
civilization. Of course, you have
the remote viewer McDonn.
>> Yeah. Joe McMongle. McMonagle who
recently uh I believe was on Shawn
Ryan's show
>> um
>> who was tasked by the CIA to remote view
Mars a million years ago and described
giant beings. That's right. Uh like
>> and ruins. Yeah.
>> And ruins 8 to 12 feet tall beings and
pyramid structures. By the way, we I
think on Sidonia you do have some
pyramid
>> the DNM pyramid which was a mag which is
a a uh massive massive pyramid.
>> It's remarkable. And then you also have
this guy
>> allegedly
>> allegedly you have this guy John
Brandenburgg as well who's a PhD um
physics who worked at Lawrence Livermore
in Sandia and he believes that Argon 40
and Xenon 129 exist in excess of what
you would ever see just based on kind of
natural decay. And this is proof of a
nuclear cataclysm that occurred on Mars.
And apparently he got called by Carl
Sean when he started to talk about this
publicly and Carl Sean was like, "John,
why are you making such a fuss about all
this stuff or something like that?"
>> And you know what I mean? So So Hogland
and Flynn were talking about this back
in the 90s and early 2000s.
>> And then NASA, you know, NASA released
some the early photographs that it
looked like a face on Mars. It looked
like a pyramid. And then they released
new higher resolution photographs which
seem to debunk the whole thing, right?
No, actually it doesn't look like a face
and it's not really this. Um, I
personally I have no proof of this.
Okay, I'm just spitballing. But I
personally think that that the images
from the first mission of the surface of
Mars were correct, were accurate, and
that NASA um released those second
higher resolution images to sort of
quell the the firestorm that had
erupted. And and I I I am extremely
persuaded that there are ruins that
dwarf anything on planet Earth.
>> The ruins of an ancient civilization on
the planet Mars, specifically in the
region of Sidonia. And this what's so
fascinating about this is that the
ancients believed that the gods
descended from Mars and from this other
planet that was destroyed. It's sort of
and this is again sounds very complex.
It is. And Flynn lays it out. I mean,
you read Sidonia and it's like
>> to me there's no question that the
ancients believe that the gods descended
from Mars and and and from Rahab. And I
and as I said before, I believe that Ra
that that the the destruction of Rahab,
which is always associated with the
wrath of God, this this pre-adamic
conflict that erupted in our solar
system and and and this this faction,
this defected faction of angelic beings
who went to war with the king of heaven
and uh and it's associated with the
dragon. And the dragon becomes a moniker
for Satan in the Bible,
>> which neither dragon nor Satan are his
actual names, nor Lucifer, by the way.
That's a a misnomer from the from the
Vulgate, from Jerome's Vulgate. Um, but
there's this character in the New
Testament, in the in the Old and New
Testament, the Bible, who's never
actually named. He's much like Voldemort
from the Harry Potter series. It's it's
he who who should not be named, right?
He's never actually named, but he's he's
he's he is the the the great uh um he's
he's the great opponent of the king of
heaven and of the purposes of God. And
and one of his I think one of his one of
his primary monikers is the dragon or
the serpent.
>> And so the destruction of Rahab and and
I Flynn goes through this in Sidonia. I
go through this in Birthright. There are
multiple verses in the Old Testament
that seem to suggest that God shattered
>> a planet,
>> that he shattered Rahab like a vessel of
clay. He pierced the dragon and
shattered Rahab.
>> Are there any of those verses that come
to mind? And then what's the evidence
that it's Mars specifically?
>> Well, well, the shata the shattered
planet isn't Mars. The shattered planet
is Rahab.
>> Okay. So, so the idea is that the the
the asteroid field that the asteroid
belt between uh Mars and Jupiter that
that is the residue of a planet that
exploded. And the contention, the
popular contention is that there's not
enough debris. It can't be a planet if
there's not enough debris. But recent
papers have been published,
peer-reviewed papers. I read a couple of
them, one at least, in which a a very
good case is made, and I wish I could
cite the paper here, but I I can't. I
don't remember what it is.
>> I'll pull it out.
>> Um that the there is enough debris
because much of the debris, if a planet
exploded, much of the physical debris
would have a been vaporized and b shot
off into space. So you would have the
planet explode. Much of the debris is
just getting jettisoned into deep space
and only a very small fraction of it
should be should would get caught up in
the gravitational pool of the sun and
would be and would form ultimately the
um uh the asteroid belt between Mars and
Jupiter. Now I'm not an astrophysicist,
okay? So, I'm way out of my depth
talking about this kind of stuff, but
>> the ancients believe, you can track it,
that there was a planet that was
destroyed and and this is part one of
the places that the gods came from. Now,
it connects to Mars because Mars was
destroyed partly because of the in the
in the wake of the destruction of this
planet, which again I also believe uh is
is attested in the biblical narrative.
There's a a few verses and I I don't I
mean I have them in my book Birthright
the exact verses but there are some
verses in the Psalms and elsewhere which
position the earth as a spectator
>> to this cosmic destruction that causes
the mountains to melt like wax.
>> Wow.
>> And so you can imagine if there was an a
massive planet between Mars and Jupiter.
>> Yeah. assuming that the planets today
are in their the same orbits as they
used to be because there's a possibility
that such an explosion could have
pushed, you know, could have moved
things around. But that planet implodes,
I mean, we can't even imagine the
destructive force that that would have
unleashed. I mean, there's no explosion
except for like a supernova that we can
think of that that that that would be
that powerful. But when that planet
exploded, it rained down fire. Shards of
Rahab bombarded the surface of Mars,
bombarded the surfaces of the other
planets in the solar system, bombarded
the surface of the earth, and abs
absolutely reduced everything to rubble,
eviscerated whatever civilizations were
inhabiting those planets. And um so but
it's but also previous to the
destruction of Rahab I believe again in
the biblical narrative you can you can
trace the thread of a cosmic padamic war
that erupted in the heavens among this
angelic civilization and possibly other
things as well. And it was between what
the Bible describes as the king, the
king of heaven,
>> um, who vanquished the dragon, who
pierced the dragon, who crushed the
dragon's head and and shattered Rahab
like a like a vessel of clay. And that
in that process, in this conflict, the
civilization on Mars was eviscerated.
Um, in other words, they were first they
were first engaged in this conflict,
technological conflict
with again who the Bible describes as
the king of heaven who is revealed to be
the son of God a kinetic war and then
after that you know or in the midst of
that conflict Rahab explodes God
destroys it and then that's like that's
the final blow to this rebel faction. So
this would be the the idea here is a a
rebellious faction of quote unquote
fallen angels
>> are going to war with the king of heaven
kinetic war in the cosmos indeed in our
solar system
>> before the creation of Adam.
>> Wow.
>> So this is a padamic race of intelligent
beings clearly extraterrestrial
especially if their habitation is on
Mars and Rahab and elsewhere in the
cosmos
>> which I believe it was. And I don't
think it's even controversial on kind of
conventional astronomical circles to say
that Mars had a biosphere at one point.
I mean, there are water caverns all
throughout Mars. I believe also in the
'90s there was Alh84001,
this uh meteor that was found that Bill
Clinton made a speech on and said they
found, you know, polyylic hydrocarbons
or whatever in the meteor. And I think
they sort of backtracked that like they
backtracked on the, you know, the Viking
missions. By the way, I've heard that
the JPL guy who was in charge of the
Viking missions also swears by there
being sort of, you know, evidence of
life on Mars or something in his life.
Yeah.
>> So, yeah.
>> Uh it's all very interesting.
>> What's even more interesting is that
Elon Musk is determined to put men on
Mars,
>> occupy Mars.
>> And and what what people don't realize,
again, I'm going to reference Sidonia.
This is what what um Flynn traces in his
book is that the the the
objective to put a man on Mars
>> y
>> is an ancient aspiration.
>> It is in fact one of the primary
objectives of the mystery schools.
>> Really?
>> Yes. To make contact with this the to to
recover the lost knowledge of the gods
on Mars.
>> On Mars specifically. on Mars
specifically
>> like mystery schools like the
Brotherhood of the Serpent and the
Freemasons and
>> mystery schools going all the way back
to I believe they go back to Cain on
obviously that's just a a conjecture of
mine but certainly unequivocally
>> the mystery schools are are pro um are
perpetuated primarily through the
Phoenicians
>> and the phoenetians really uh are the
you might aside from anti-dolivian
mystery schools if they existed the
phoenetians are certainly the primary
post Deluvian keepers of knowledge from
the anti-dolivian world I mean the
phoenetians were the great masons
>> of the ancient world and navigators
>> see family people
>> um they circumnavigated Africa for sure
I think they crossed the Atlantic I
think they were mining copper
>> in the great lakes I know that's very
controversial I think that the reason
why you find red-haired giants,
>> the remains of redhaired giants in the
mountains of America back in the the uh
18 and early 1900s is because they came
over
>> the sea with the phoenetians. The
Phoenicians had a cult of giant worship.
>> Wow.
>> All kind of evidence of giants uh among
the phoenetians. Um and the phoenetians
are like they were essentially a secret
society.
>> Wow. Fascinating.
>> And they and I mean who did Solomon
contract with to build the temple?
>> Phoenicians.
>> The Phoenicians. Hyram of Ty
>> and Hyram Abif
>> his artificer the Hyram of Ty the king
and Hyram Abif his his premier artificer
um that's who built the temple
uh Solomon's temple they were they were
the master masons they built the fleets
for Egypt for ancient Egypt
>> and so and the mystery schools have this
aspiration because I think of the temple
of Solomon as part of the mystery school
aspiration and interest as well
>> um but They they have this sort of
through line around getting to Mars. I
didn't know that. Yes.
>> Fast.
>> Yes. So the the again one of the primary
aspirations of the mystery schools is to
recover the lost knowledge of the gods
from Mars.
>> Now is our aspiration is Elon Musk's
aspiration to go to Mars associated with
this um or just or just part of that
impetus the sort of undercurrent for the
mystery schools? Is there a hidden hand
directing us back to Mars?
>> I would say so.
>> Mhm. And I think when we go there soon,
um,
probably in our lifetime, we are going
to find evidence of an ancient
civilization,
>> extraterrestrial civilization on Mars.
And I have a feeling that it's going to
be announced rather soon, perhaps even
by President Trump, that there's
microbial life on Mars or was, that we
have evidence of mic. I mean, NASA's
sort of already beginning to prime that
pump. So I think what's going to come
first is the announcement that hey there
was life on Mars. We have evidence of
microbial life on Mars and that's the
preamble.
>> That would be a good one little soft
disclosure. Exactly. Test the waters.
See see see what happens there. So
>> I think okay so we have let's establish
a baseline. So we have these watchers
that came down. They were
extraterrestrial.
>> They mated with man. They created
nephilim. Um of which we are kind of the
descendants. The nephilim were banished.
They were made to be kind of these uh
disincarnate kind of wandering spirits,
demonic spirits. Yep.
>> Uh and then we have this all this
interesting evidence that a lot of this
actually holds astronomical weight in
the ancient world.
>> That's right. Um, what does all of this
have to do with modern, you know, we
think about UFOs flying around and alien
abductions and is there anything that we
think of, you know, metaphysically back
then with those stories that still apply
to today? Cuz I think my my biggest
question is like you have UFOs back then
and you have sacred knowledge back then.
the sacred knowledge gets lost in the
flood and now you know circa 2026
you have Trump tweeting about UFOs we're
all talking about all this stuff
>> is this
>> and then you have this alleged group of
evangelical Christians who are being
talked about all the time now or
>> the Collins elite
>> Collins elite so-called Collins elite
>> yeah um it's it's all very interesting
>> yeah so do you think the the flying
vehicles of today because you're kind of
you could be considered a modern
ufologist. You you research a lot of
these phenomena today.
You know, if the watchers are chained up
somewhere um but some of that knowledge
made its way to mankind where where what
are these aerial vehicles that we're
seeing?
>> So that's actually a great point. Um, so
these 200 watchers that descended to the
earth within the biblical context, these
were a separate group from the other
beings, the other angelic beings who the
Bible describes in many ways, but in one
passage as the devil and his angels,
right? So the Satan figure
>> it was here before the Watchers
descended to the earth. Satan was here
with with his quote unquote fallen
angels. So, I'm not a big fan of that
term, but um people understand when I
use it what I mean. So, these these
apostate
rebel sons of God, angelic beings are
here on the earth, and they have not
been chained up. They've been here. They
were here before us. Um and
this is a remnant of that.
Let's put it into Star Wars terms, a
rebel alliance. Except in this case,
they're the bad guys who were fighting
against the kingdom of heaven that we we
talked about earlier when Rahab exploded
in the in the the civilization on Mars
and all that. They came from there.
>> So, we're not even that we're not even
referencing the Watchers in that
context. The Watchers came afterward.
The Watchers came in the days descend in
the days of Jared. So, humankind was
already populating the earth. That's
when the Watchers descended. But but you
know the dragon, the devil and his
angels, Satan and and and his uh and his
consort, his his cohort, they came to
the earth or were cast down to the earth
a long time ago after that cosmic
battle. So they were here before Adam.
They were here before the Watchers.
They're a separate group.
Um these are these are these are
heavenly beings, right?
um probably the the the same kind of
beings as the watchers.
And by the way, there's a misconception
and this really is is propagated in the
West. And it and this this has to do
more with a cultural perception than any
sort of biblical
uh
fact is is the idea that that quote
unquote fallen angels are these ugly,
grotesque, demonic looking beings. like
they're, you know, like they look
reptilian or something or they have
horns and whatever. There's no
indication that that's true anywhere.
That's not a that's certainly not a
biblical concept. That's a western
traditional concept because we ascribe
we we we ascribe their qualities, their
the attributes that they're cunning and
they're deceptive and they're evil. You
know, these are malevolent beings. And
so we portray them. Traditionally the
church has portrayed them in cultural in
culture as these ugly beings right who
embody these attributes. But but I
believe that these in fact biblically
speaking Satan is described as as the
most beautiful being. He's he was he was
he was the sum of perfection
and and and he was absolutely beautiful.
And so quite the opposite of the western
tradition. And I think that goes for
Satan and and the other angelic beings
who defected with him from the kingdom
and and are now in opposition of the
king of heaven. And they're at least in
part here on earth and again have been
long before Adam at least from my
theological perspective and many others
as well. But but from my theological
perspective, they've been here a long
time. So let's differentiate between the
watchers who descend in the days of
Jared and who the Bible designates as
the devil and his angels, the dragon
>> and the other the other apostate princes
because that's what they are. These were
princes in the kingdom of heaven. Okay?
So what I'm trying to describe here is a
kingdom, a real kingdom, not an
imaginary kingdom, not a spiritual
kingdom, not a interdimensional kingdom,
because these are all there may be, you
know, interdimensional aspects and
things like that, but I'm trying to get
people to disassociate the kingdom of
heaven with sort of the fairy tale stuff
and think of it instead as a practical
functioning kingdom
and and that the the those who've
defected from that kingdom before the
creation of Adam, in other words,
angelic beings who defected from that
kingdom are still here with us today and
perhaps elsewhere.
Um and uh and that those beings
according to the Bible are still active
in the world.
And so
from my point of view, these beings
are they they they they are very cumbly.
They look we look like them.
these angelic beings which is which is
apparent in the in the biblical
narrative every time human beings
encounter angels in the narrative. And
when I I'm stressing narrative because
you have the narrative of the Bible and
then you have the prophetic content.
The prophetic content is a world of
symbolism.
This is, you know, when when when
the prophets are having these visionary
experiences, they're either a in a
trance or b dreaming.
They never go anywhere. They're in a
trance or they're dreaming. So just like
in a dreamscape, everything you
encounter in a dreamcape, in as much as
it means anything, is symbolic. So this
is a world of symbolism and
communication. The world of the what I'm
calling the prophetic, right? So set
that aside. And but the narrative, what
I refer to as the narrative, the
biblical narrative is the actual story.
I'll give you an example. Abraham
encounters angelic beings. In the
narrative, not in a vision, not in a
trance. In the actual narrative of the
story, Abraham encounters a group of
angelic beings and he has dinner with
them. He sucks with them. He interacts
with them just like we interact with
each other. And they look like us. They
look human.
They're not human, but they look human.
Um, his nephew Lot encounters angelic
beings who come to extract him and his
family before the destruction of Sodom.
And what does he do with these beings?
He eats with them. He has dinner with
them.
And then they escort him out of the
city. And the city is destroyed. So what
I'm trying to establish here is is that
these beings that we describe, again I'm
coming from a Christian perspective, the
beings that we desri that we call angels
in the Bible, we have a false perception
of what these beings are, what they look
like, and what they do. Um, and that
perception comes from tradition. It's
it's it's not extracted from the
biblical narrative. It rather it comes
from church tradition and just western
tradition in general.
And in the western tradition, of course,
we're all familiar with the depiction of
cherubam in the Catholic Church, um, in
Roman Catholicism, which depicts them as
as little chubby toddlers, basically
with little wings,
um, is absurd. That's absurd. That's not
what Chiro beam are. That's not how
they're described in the Bible. And even
the way they're described in the Bible
is symbolic. So because that's within
the that's within that visionary
context. But um angels whenever they're
in the whenever they're actually
interacting with mankind in the
narrative, they look very much like we
do. And they don't have wings. Angels do
not have wings. And in fact, um there
are these vehicles that are described in
the Bible. And I'm not talking about
Ezekiel's wheel
>> because Ezekiel's wheel, we're going to
relegate that to the trans visionary
stuff, the dreamscape stuff, cuz that's
what that was.
>> It's symbolic.
Um, so I don't think Ezekiel's wheel is
a is a UFO. However, in the narrative,
you have these other vehicles that are
called the chariots of God or the
chariots of Israel or the chariots of
fire.
They're described variously the same
thing. And these are, it's very
ambiguous, but these are clearly some
kind of vehicle of conveyance.
And you know, I'm I'm old enough to know
that horses don't fly.
And you know, the the Bible doesn't
oblige me to believe that horses fly
because when you think of a chariot,
obviously a chariot is the most advanced
vehicle of conveyance
>> in the mind of the Iron Age rider,
right?
There's nothing that's more advanced
than a chariot. That's it. I mean,
that's that's like the Ferrari of their
time. So chariot is pulled by horses. So
if you're trying to describe a vehicle
that is advanced, you might describe it
as a chariot,
>> a chariot of fire or chariot of God or
chariot of Israel. And so I do believe
that these beings, these angelic beings,
a as I said earlier, they look like us.
Why do they look like us, by the way?
It's something I mentioned earlier.
>> Because they're our siblings.
They're the older siblings. They're the
sons of God that pre-exist us
>> that Adam's created to be a son of God.
So, it's a family. Clearly, it's a
family
>> and we were supposed to be part of it.
>> So, and we were part of it in the
beginning. Um, but we've been sunundered
from the family, divorced from the
family of God. This is the great tragedy
of of of our story.
>> We were sundered from the family,
subjected to um subjected to decay and
degeneration.
And uh but the good news is and this is
what the good news what I alluded to
earlier is that there's a way back in
through Christ. He brings us back and
restores us back into the family of
sons. Um so these other sons of God,
the morning stars, remember that that
that were singing together and the sons
of God shouting for joy before mankind
was created.
that because we're members of the same
family, we bear the same image. We look
similar to one another. And I would go
further than that.
>> I would say based on everything we've
discussed here from the book of Enoch in
Genesis 6, we're so
alike that we're that we are we're
genetically compatible. We can copulate.
We can procreate.
>> That's exactly what we're doing in the
book of Enoch. That's exactly what's
happening in Genesis 6. uh the sons of
God are procreating with human women. So
I just I just choose the path of least
resistance here.
>> It's because they're genetically
compatible. And one thing I didn't
mention when we're talking about those
sons of God was that the impetus, what I
call the first cause of the watchers
defection was lust. They lusted. The
book of Enoch says, and this is what the
Genesis 6 implies, they lusted after the
daughters of men. They were sexually
attracted to human women. Well, I mean,
we can extrapolate then that they have
the male machinery, right? Because you
you if if you're just some wraith or
you're just some spiritual being, how do
you lust?
How are you consumed with lust after the
female form? And then furthermore, how
do you copulate with a woman and and
procreate?
And and so I as again I just take the
path of least resistance. I add up all
of these data points from the biblical
narrative and I conclude
that we are the younger sibling. They
are the older sibling. I call them the
the elder the elder race in my book.
>> By the way, that's a a wink and a nod to
JRR Tolken. Remember the LDR?
>> Yes.
>> In the uh in the um the Lord of the
Rings and and the Sylmarian were the
were the elves
>> were the high elves and who who were
somewhat related to humans and could
certainly copulate with them.
>> So, um but that's not why I that's not
exactly from from where I derive the
idea. I derive it from the biblical text
that we are the younger sibling. So why
am I building I'm building this
structure here so that I can so that I
can begin to build on top of it. So what
I'm trying to depict here is that
there's a faction of beings perhaps one
of many
that are pre-exist.
They look like us rather we look like
them. They're more magnificent than we
are. King David said in the Psalms that
that mankind was created to be a little
lower than the heavenly beings. Okay, so
these are those heavenly beings.
We're we were members of the same
family. That's why we literally look
like each other. We bear the image of
our father.
And who's the express image according to
the scriptures, the express image and
likeness of the father? The son of God.
So basically we look like the son of God
who's the preeminent son. And so we are
genetically compatible. We can copulate.
And so I'm depicting a class of beings,
angels, who are technologically
advanced,
who who use utilize technology, dare I
say flying saucers, who have knowledge
that that is much older than any any
knowledge on earth, much more advanced,
who come from a kingdom the Bible
describes as the kingdom of heaven.
a literal kingdom with a king and a
council and and courts and courtortiers
and couriers and armies.
You know the the the most uh common name
for uh for for Yahweh in the Old
Testament is Lord of armies.
>> Lord of hosts that means Lord of armies.
>> So you have angelic armies. And as I
when I was a kid, I always thought,
how do you have like supernatural
armies? How do they how do they do
battle? Like, and because I was thinking
of it as supernatural, which means above
and beyond nature. And I've I've since
um changed my view and I believe there
is precisely one supernatural being in
the universe, and that is the father,
God, supreme. Uh everything else,
everybody else is subjected to the laws
of nature. equally. So, um so you have
this functional kingdom from which these
beings come. Now, so you have this
faction of beings, the angelic faction,
the sons of God, the morning stars.
These are all the same. I'm using those
terms uh um analogously for these
beings. And they they they we look like
them. They use technology. They speak a
language. And then you have a group of
them that defected.
Those are the quote unquote fallen
angels. That's the group that defects
from the kingdom. Those are the those
are the the beings who are in opposition
to the king of heaven on earth.
opposition to his kingdom, opposition to
mankind, corrupting, always seeking to
corrupt and um and and cause man mankind
to become disaffected with the kingdom
of heaven and to sin against God and to
reap the repercussions, which is what
they were doing with Israel. And these
beings are here.
So those beings speak the same language
as their the unfaithful
fallen angelic beings speak the same
language as the faithful ones. They look
the same. They use the same technology.
So again what I'm doing here is I'm
creating this this structure
upon which coming from a Christian
perspective to be able to understand the
phenomenon without reverting to
supernaturalism.
>> What do you think they want to do with
humanity now? Do they have intentions
for us?
>> Oh yeah. There's no question about it. I
mean, from a biblical perspective, the
enemies of God first and foremost are in
opposition to everything that that God
desires.
And they are they're they're almost
their job is to lead mankind astray
>> into apostasy, to cause mankind to
transgress
and and to destroy us, and by doing so
to do injury to to to God. That's part
of what they do. They're also um this is
all building. This is all accumul um
this is all um crescendoing. This is the
crescendo of my book birthright. The the
the culmination is
Armageddon.
>> And Armageddon is so often interpreted
as a war with Israel. But if you really
if you really pay attention, Armageddon
is a war with the son of God returning
to the earth. And I believe that's a
kinetic war. So I think that literally
these fallen sons of God, these apostate
sons of God are are are slowly building
eventually they're going to be building
an army. They're they're they're
amassing the technology. They're
building an army. They're leading
humanity into a posthuman condition. And
the objective is to usurp dominion of
the earth and resist the son of God
returning to the earth. I understand
that, you know, that's a very
theological position. So your your
viewers who aren't coming from a
biblical perspective may think that
that's absolutely absurd. However, from
a biblical perspective, that's
absolutely accurate.
>> So, um, so yes, there's a conflict
coming and all of this is is mounting
towards that conflict, that ultimate
conflict between good and evil. And so
those beings are at work in the earth.
They've been here for a very long time.
So, let me make this really practical
for people and then I'll shut up. Let me
make this really practical.
>> No, I love it. So, you know,
I'm I'm you probably aware I'm I'm um a
person who is completely utterly
convinced of the nuts and bolts reality
of of the UFO phenomenon because I
myself have seen a UFO right above my
car, 40 ft above my car, you know, a
UFO. I think it was a um ARV, but
nevertheless,
>> where was this?
>> Brook Park, Ohio.
>> Wow. Um so near right Patterson or
>> No, it's near uh the John Glenn NASA
research center and also um well well
yeah the NASA center there.
>> So you think it was possibly human
reverse engineered or
>> so I'll digress into this really quick
because this this does sort of
illustrate the point I was about to
make. Um uh so this was during a time
this was probably my god I don't know 14
years ago. I don't know I always
probably say a different number because
I I'm I'm really bad with numbers and
dates and stuff. It was it was before I
currently live in Montana. It was before
I moved to Montana. I was living in
Brook Park rather uh Cleveland, Ohio
where I was born. I was born in Brook
Park, Ohio. Um and I had just returned,
you know, a year or two previous to that
from Peru. I lived in Peru for about 10
years. And I was living in Cleveland and
not far from my brother-in-law. and he
and I would always work out in his
basement and we'd always lift weights in
his basement and and and I would say
more often than not the topic of
conversation was UFO stuff and we were
deep into Lazar and the just kind of
kicking around what what the reverse
engineered technology would look like
and you know all of that sort of stuff
talking about gray aliens talking about
sort of all the euphological lore that
was more often than not the this the the
topic of conversation
and he's an inventor and so he liked to
think about like you know maybe what
what what some of the anti- gravitics
look like and stuff like that and so one
day probably was the top topic of
conversation this evening we were
working out in his basement and he
wanted to run over to the suburb of
Brook Park Ohio which is that's where I
actually grew up was in Brook Park Ohio
and uh so we we hopped in my car and
this was probably we we were trying to
get there before it closed I think it
closed at 9:00 this was in February
February really it was really cold
outside and it was really windy this
particular night like really really
windy and we jumped in my car and we
drove over to Brook Park and we went to
the Brook Park uh strip mall the the
Brook it was called Brook Strip Mall I
don't know if it's still there to this
day but I used to ride my bike around
there very familiar with this area and
then you know not far from there is the
airport in the John Glenn Center the
NASA center and there's also a um um a
um reserve
um what do you call it? The Army Reserve
or whatever it's called um base close
by.
>> Air Force Base or Army B. Okay.
>> Yeah. And um
uh National Guard.
>> National Guard.
>> National Guard. And so we're we're
it's dark outside. It's probably 8:30 or
so. And we're we're we're pulling up to
the Brook Park Brook 8 shopping uh strip
mall and there's this light and we got
to go through the light and then you go
into the parking lot and we're stopped
at the light and we're we're both kind
of just we're just talking. He I
remember he was talking to me about some
invention he had related to like a
toothbrush. I can remember that. And um
and as he's talking, we're we're just
kind of looking ahead and we see this
thing, this craft hovering above the
corner store and it's got really bright
lights and we immediately thought it was
a a training exercise from the National
Guard. That's what we thought. Oh, look
at that. There's a helicopter. It's a
training exercise. Like it was big hel I
thought it was a like a Chinook or
something or like a Blackhawk. and and
we were just sort of um you know uh
amazed that they're they're hovering
that low over the building. It was
probably only 30 feet above the
building. And so we rolled our windows
down cuz we thought we were going to
hear the telltale sound of blades
whipping through the air. Nothing.
And we were close enough we should have
heard it. And we It was windy, granted.
And we looked at each other like, uh-oh.
So I go through the light. There's
hardly anybody in the parking lot cuz
it's almost everything's almost closing,
right? were rushing to get to the store.
Probably 8:45 by now. Pull into the
parking lot and I don't even like park.
I just throw my vehicle into park
because this craft that was hovering
above the corner store lifts up in the
air and effortlessly glides right over
my car. But it wasn't directly above. It
was in front so that it it like
positioned itself so I could get a full
view of it through my windshield. So it
was in front but above. And then it
descended to about 40 ft.
And it was immediately apparent to me
and my brother-in-law that this was not
National Guard. This was not this was
not anything conventional. Um it it was
reminiscent
of the F-17 Nighthawk
>> fighter. It had sort of that angular
body armor, a little bit of that. And it
was like a grayish green dark color,
>> although it was hard to tell cuz it was
night time. It had really bright
triangular lights. I remember two. My
brother-in-law remembers one, but
triangles, lights, white, and then it
had a series of I think green and blue
lights around the perimeter at the
bottom.
And it it didn't have wings. It had
little stubby protrusions in the place
of wings. And it was kind of shaped like
a diamond
>> and um and it it it was it it didn't
really have sharp angles. It was very
smooth. Um, there was no visible
windshield or anything like that. No
markings. There was no propulsionary
systems, propulsion system to speak of,
no engines, no propellers,
um, nothing like that at all. Again, it
just had little stubby protrusions in
the place of wings. It was not
aerodynamic is what I'm trying to say.
>> And, and we rolled our windows down
to listen to hear if it if there's any
noise of an engine. Nothing. Completely
silent. All we heard was the wind. The
wind was so strong that it was rocking
my car like this. Um, it's rock the
gusts of winds are rocking my little Kia
Sportage I think is what I had at the
time. And and this thing just like I
said descended and just hovered there
like I was supposed to see it. And we're
just staring at this thing. I remember
saying the only thing I could say was
Tony that is some top secret.
That's what I told. And and then we're
just staring at this and and and then
suddenly like I'm thinking I don't I
have a flip phone at the time. He has a
smartphone. I'm thinking get a picture.
Get a video. Get video of this thing. So
I said, "Tony, your phone. Your phone."
And he like like he's coming out of a
trance and he starts, you know, looking
for his phone in his pocket. He finds
his phone, pulls it out, drops it on the
ground. So he he bends over to pick up
his phone, right? To get a to get a
picture or footage. And as he's bending
over, I mean, we probably were staring
at this thing for at least 30 seconds,
which is a long time, maybe even a
minute or two. I don't remember. We had
a long look at this thing. And as he's
fidgeting on the ground to find his
phone, the craft lifts up into the air.
Again, it is so windy, and I failed to
mention, the craft is completely
unaffected by the wind.
>> Completely
>> as if it's in its own atmospheric
bubble.
>> Lifts up into the air and then it begins
to turn effortlessly. And by the time he
gets his phone up, it's moving away and
it's just gliding away. And we jump out
of the car and it is I just remember
jumping out of the car getting blasted
in the face with ice cold wind. And by
the time he got his phone up, it was
descending over the horizon like over
behind the houses toward the glass
rather toward the NASA um John Glenn
Center by the way. Right in that
direction. No. Again, it had no
insignia, no air force insignia. It was
not a helicopter. It was the size of a
Chinook or a Blackhawk helicopter. No
insignia,
no propellers, no noise, no propulsion
system, no windshield.
Was it a drone? I don't know. Whatever
it was, it was not using conventional
technology. That's for sure. You know, I
mean, you know, when a Harrier jet takes
off, if there's vehicles below it, it
like blows them out of the way, right?
um this thing nothing. So I don't know
why but I sort of concluded that I was
looking at you know what what people
call ARVs alien um reproduction vehicle.
I I I don't know why I can't I can't say
I don't know why but I got the distinct
sensation that that that this was ours
this was this was but but that the
technology was exotic. I don't know that
was just a feeling which doesn't mean
much but that's what I saw and and that
was it for me. Okay. So everything that
I had been learning about in the realm
of eupfology right
>> was suddenly concretized
>> in that moment. Now that doesn't mean
that everything's true but it means the
phenomenon is real
>> 100%. We've got advanced technology now
whether we you know took some divergent
path from Nicola Tesla and built it
ourselves or whether we derived some of
this technology from crash retrievals
which is what I believe in fact I would
say I know that to be true at this point
in my life
>> um the phenomenon is real the technology
is real
>> people are in possession of it
>> and are utilizing it are deploying it
>> um and that really like I said it
concretized the whole thing in my mind
way back Then
>> and so moving forward from that
position,
it it wasn't, you know, I I wasn't
struggling and choking on aspects of
eupfology like a lot of people do
because they've never seen anything.
>> I was able to just
>> have this baseline understanding that
yeah, something's there's some aspect of
this is
>> is absolutely real. Do you think this
biblical fallen angel idea accounts for
all of the phenomena that we see?
>> Okay, that's a very good question. So,
this loops us right back into what I was
saying, which was that
I established that I believe that the
the good guys and the bad guys look the
same. We look like them. They come from
an advanced ancient civilization that
pre-exists us biblically speaking. And
some of them are loyal to the king of
heaven and some of them are in
opposition to him. So you have the quote
unquote good angels and fallen angels,
right? Loyal sons of God, disloyal sons
of God. Um, and they're both operating,
I believe, with the same technology. M
>> so like I said earlier, you know, we'd
establish that the Watchers are a
separate group from I believe they're
the same species, so to speak, but
they're a separate group.
>> So when the Watchers descended to Mount
Hermon, I believe that they were at the
helms of advanced aerospace vehicles.
>> I believe that the technology of this
civilization is exceedingly advanced.
So, some of what we see out there is,
for a lack of a better term, angelic
technology. That's the way that I would
describe it. Now, some of that
technology is being piloted by good guys
and some of that technology is being
piloted by bad guys, but the technology
itself, you cannot ascribe motive to a
piece of hardware. You can't say that
that piece of hardwood, you know, a
flying saucers is no more good or evil
than than than
my truck.
>> So you would say as below so above,
they're good and bad people and they're
good and bad.
>> Just like on Earth, yeah, there's
there's factions of human beings and
some some of us do good and some of us
do evil, but we're the same species and
we use the same technology. So this is
interesting because it's almost
uh you know we've heard people like
Jacqu Valet talk about connecting the
modern phenomena with sort of biblical
elements.
>> Uh and then you also have people like
Hal Putoff who actually lives out here
in Austin who wrote an interesting paper
about the saluran hypothesis these these
ultraterrestrials so survivors of an
ancient cat cataclysm and you're sort of
combining them. Well, I'm I'm going. So,
so that's the first
>> that's just a component of the
phenomenon that I just
>> Do I believe that describes the
totality? No. It does not describe the
totality of the phenomenon.
>> I'm glad you're saying that cuz I I
agree. I think it's every time we try to
>> Yes. No, I don't believe that describes
the totality of the phenomenon. I think
that's an that's a that's an aspect of
the phenomenon.
>> These beings we call angels in the
biblical nerve. Angel, by the way, is
just a occupational descriptor in the
Bible. It just means messenger, an
envoy, one who is sent. It doesn't give
us any insight into the nature of those
beings.
>> And and often they're kind of
terrifyingly violent. We just
>> Well, the the the the the bad ones are
certainly
>> or even I mean depends on where like in
uh the Old Testament sometimes they're
violent, but it's sort of in this
moralistic Sodom and Gomorra. Sodom and
Gomorrah. Exactly.
>> They eviscerated Sodom and Gomorra. How
did they do that?
>> I don't know. Lasers or something. Maybe
there was a saucer hovering above that
thing. Yep. So um so you know people
this is very difficult and it was
difficult for me in the beginning to
sort of retool my mind. Um yeah, but you
know what? Uh to challenge the audience,
you know, anybody who's like, we're
talking about stuff that's serious now
and that the government's talking about,
but in the P, all of this is extremely
speculative and you have to if you have
these ancient traditions that are all
triangulating towards a common truth and
you have, you know, eons. I mean,
literally, I think Jacqu Valet is kind
of a this really important kind of
godfather of modern UFO research. If you
read Wonders in the Sky, you read
Passport to Meonia, you have to take
this transhistorical, transcultural Yes.
idea. This isn't just post Roswell
nuclear age American stuff happening.
>> That's right. This is where I like to
draw delineations here. So, what I've
described is one faction,
one aspect of the phenomenon,
>> but I don't think that that describes
the totality of the phenomenon. And what
I mean by this is if I know because I'm
so convinced of the biblical narrative,
right? I know that that faction exists,
this angelic faction, and that they're
in the game. They're they're major
players in the game here.
>> But also being a
eager eupfologist for all these years, I
know that gray aliens exist. And I know
I say that definitively, but I think the
the the evidence is overwhelming.
And and the reason why I say the
evidence is overwhelming primarily it's
not because of the whistleblowers and
all of the crash retrieval stuff,
Leonard Stringfield, all the stuff he
compiled, although all of that is
compelling. What what what pushes me
over the edge is alien abduction. That's
what pushes me over the edge in regard
to gray aliens.
>> So, um I have too many friends and
associates who've seen them.
>> Yeah.
>> And have been touch and have touched
them and have been taken by them. So um
so
>> yeah, the amount of people out there who
have been taken
have implants with, you know, the
implants have isotope ratios that don't
occur on Earth. That's right. Roger Lear
was literally like extracting them from
bodies.
>> Many
>> many. And then
>> Andy Andy captured one of the best U and
I don't know what you think about it,
but one of the best UFO videos I've ever
seen.
>> Oh, I've never seen this.
>> Oh, you haven't? You had to have seen
this one? Maybe. I think it was in Was
it in Lebanon? I can't remember the
details. And it's like a It looks like a
craft. You can see grays inside of it.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And I don't People say that that's been
debunked and other people say it hasn't
been debunked. But um
>> I didn't know that was his video.
>> Yeah, Roger Lair captured that.
>> Wow.
>> Isn't that weird?
>> That's wild.
>> Here's the guy pulling implants out of
people. Captures that video. So now
whether or not that video has actually
been debunked, I don't think so.
>> Um I think it's one of the most
compelling videos I've ever seen.
Certainly.
>> Is it Is it Lebanon or is it Turkey?
>> Or Turkey. Turkey. Somewhere in there.
Somewhere in that area. Yeah. I don't
remember where it is. They're looking
over the ocean.
>> No, it's an amazing video.
>> Yes. And And I mean, it looks like these
big bulbous headed gray aliens in there
>> and nobody's ever conclusively debunked
it as with a lot of imagery. It's like
you have the negatives and nobody can
conclusively say it's fake.
>> Long before the age of AI.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, I don't know. But that's that Roger
Lair was was awesome. Mhm.
>> And yeah, implants are are so
overlooked. I mean, it's like, by the
way, this is often times my conversation
with some of the congressional people I
interact with.
>> Like, you want evidence?
>> Yeah.
>> There's a lot of people walking around
with with exotic material, technological
material in their bodies.
>> Yeah.
>> And and I don't there's there's no
question about it. I mean, uh,
th this is the aspect of eupfology where
you can mine the most physical material
evidence is the abduction stuff.
>> Yeah. It's so str. You know, I I
interviewed Whitley Strieber and you
could say what you want about some of
his stories or his book or his writing
background, whatever. I felt an implant
in his ear and I don't think he's
putting it in his own ear or behind the
ear. Yeah. I don't think he's doing that
for show. Yeah. It's right here. It's at
the top of his ear and it's so strange.
And then I just did a show with my buddy
Chris Ramsey who runs this great podcast
called Area 52.
>> We had this guy come up on stage and he
had an experience when he was a child
and he has something very similar in his
ear and he could put a magnet externally
on it and it'll stick there. It's so
strange.
>> Most people who have implants, most of
them are generally located somewhere in
the head, although people have had them
all over. Roger extracted implants from
knees and whatever. And you know, my my
colleague and good friend Ellie Marculli
worked with Lair and and was there when
they extracted some of these implants
and and they would describe he would
describe to me how some of these
implants were evasive.
>> Yeah.
>> They move and they don't they're not
rejected by the body. Y
>> they don't cause swelling. They they
migrate around the body but of and many
abductees have ejected them
unintentionally from their nasal cavity.
um you know they'll have a bloody nose
and they eject an implant.
>> Yeah, a little BB will come out.
>> A little BB will come out and they're
they're shaped variously like some of
them are look like tiny little pills
oblong some of them are round whatever.
>> Um and I think L concluded that they
that they they had some sort of
nanotechnology in in them. Yep.
>> Some very very sophisticated technology.
And it's like
>> that's physical evidence.
>> It is physical evidence.
>> That's physical evidence. And not only
that,
>> and I know we're we're diving into alien
abduction, but not only that, because
let me before I dive into alien
abduction, let me just wrap up what I
saying real quick. So, I said that the
angelic stuff doesn't account for the
the the totality of the phenomenon.
>> Yeah.
>> Because, you know, I look at the gray
alien faction. Again, I'm very very
persuaded that that faction is real. And
and you have the the little grays, you
know, people think are automatons of
some kind, maybe artificial intelligence
or something. Um, I like to think of
them as cybernetic dru clones,
cybernetic clones. And and they're, to
me, from my perspective, they seem to be
clearly created by the insecttoins. You
know what Dr. David Jacobs describes as
insectilins, the manted beings in my
estimation, that's the biological
species, the organic species, and
they're making the little grays.
>> And there's not just little grays. I
mean, there's there's big grays, too. I
mean, from, you know, from euphological
lore at least. And but the little ones
are the ones that come to retrieve the
abductee. So that's a faction. And so
when I say these things and I and I talk
about angelic beings, people conflate
the two. Like they think I'm saying that
the grays are the angelic beings. I am
not. I just want to make that.
>> What do we think the grays are?
>> So I don't know. Um I have no idea gray
aliens are, but or where they come from.
You know, are they cryptoaterrestrial?
Are they? By the way, you you mentioned
something really interesting, the
anti-deluvian hypothesis that maybe some
people from like an Atlantean
civilization escaped and maybe went off
planet or under the earth and then now
they're they they have this advanced
technology that they developed a long
time ago and they're still here, right?
I I love that idea. I don't know if it's
true, but I think I find it intriguing.
I find it intriguing. Now, one thing I
think we can say about the grays
definitively is that wherever they come
from, they have bases here now.
>> Yeah.
>> So, let's say there was a forward
operation of grays that came years ago.
Well, they established bases a long time
ago, just like we would
>> if we were were coming, by the way, for
a hostile purpose. We would come and we
would establish a Ford operating base
>> and and in anticipation for more of us
coming later, right? And so those Ford
operating bases would be would be
established in in in the areas that that
human beings would least look for them
or or be able to discover them, which
would be at the bottom of our oceans
under the ground, underground bases.
And and certainly at this point in time,
I would say that it's it's much more uh
it's much more likely to be true than
not, let's put it in very generous
terms, that these bases exist,
specifically the grays
>> and maybe maybe there's mobile bases,
you know, the 4chan stuff
>> that I've seen of mobile
>> construction units.
>> That's right. And they're creating these
craft to spec, which I think is
>> again wildly intriguing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because it seems to
comport to a lot of the data than the
other stuff about how the grays excrete,
you know, they excrete waste out of
their skin. They smell like ammonia and
sulfur. That's why people say, "Oh, and
and you know, people sometimes
Christians say, well, they smell like
sulfur, so therefore they're from hell,
>> right?"
>> It's like, whoa, whoa, they smell like
ammonia and sulfur.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is which is like, you know, urine
coming out of your skin,
>> right?
>> That's what that would smell like,
right? If you're excreting your waste
through your skin, that's, you know, you
would expect it to smell like ammonia
and then like that sulfuric smell. I
could imagine that. Um, if you're
dealing with beings that are excreting
waste through their skin, they don't
have sexual organs.
>> Um, they don't appear to have tongues or
or they might have pallets in their
mouth, but they don't appear to have
teeth. Um, their organs appear to be
different from ours. Um, but they are
clearly physical beings because they
they crash and die
>> and You know, I've got a friend who um
I've got a friend who is an abductee and
and she actually in one of her
experiences, she actually grabbed one by
the neck and squeezed it before she
passed out in one of her abduction
episodes and she said it felt leathery
like a snake like, you know, like the
skin of a snake. Cold, clammy, leathery.
>> Wow. And so, you know, the the the
popular idea today is that some people
don't think that these are actually
sentient beings, that they're just sort
of meat suits either for art artificial
intelligence or in the Christian
community, it's very popular to say
they're meat suits for demon demonic
spirits. Um,
I don't subscribe to that theory myself,
but I think, as I said, I would describe
them as cybernetic dr uh clones. The
reason why I would describe them that
way, I know we're like diving into GR. I
don't know if you want to talk. I love
it. Yeah, of course.
>> But the reason why I would describe them
that way is because they do appear to
have, according to abductees,
>> they do appear to have personalities,
>> vague personalities, but personalities
nonetheless. Why do I say that? Because
in the abduction material, you find
abductees who can recognize the grays or
they can perceive their age. like this
one's older, this one's female, that
one's male, even though they don't have
sexual organs. Um, they there there's
sort of a personality that they're
picking up on even though the grays are
very robotic and dispassionate, stoic.
>> Do you have any s because I know you've
looked at David Jacobs, Carla Turner,
John Mack, all these amazing Bud
Hopkins, who was really kind of the
>> greatest compiler of all this stuff. Um
do you come out of looking at that
research with any sort of idea as to the
intentions of these beings or you do?
>> Yes, I I think that so um Bud Hopkins
was just sort of documenting the
phenomenon.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, as an objective observer,
maybe subjective sometimes he did get
very very enraptured in the lives of the
abductees. Um but brilliant brilliant
researcher. I'm going to I'm going to
separate out John Mack who I tons of
respect for. love John Mack, but John
Mack was much more uh psychologically
involved in the phenomenon like you know
kind of just sort of trying to parse it
from a psychological aspect.
>> He was on the fence about it being
>> the physical
but but nevertheless he laid a lot of
groundwork and him and Bud some of the I
don't know if you can still find these.
Have you ever seen the interactions the
the the dialogues between Bud Hopkins
and John Mack?
>> I don't think I have.
>> Yeah. Really fascinating. I know they
were childhood.
>> Both men were just complete gentlemen.
>> Yeah. Both of them were extremely
intelligent guys. Both of them very
objective. Um, so they're never arguing.
They're just having dialogue and it was
some of the awesome some awesome UFO
content that's that's not seen very
often anymore. You could probably still
find it on YouTube. Just I have a ton of
respect for both those guys. So, but B
but Hopkins was kind of documenting the
the phys the physical reality of the of
the uh abduction experience, missing
time, you know, the the the table
procedures, all that kind of stuff. Then
car then enter Carla Turner, who was
herself a student of B but Hopkins from
a far um and Barbara Bartholik who she
interacted with, another great uh
abduction researcher. And that what what
made Turner unique was that she was an
abductee and her family. So now she is
writing from the the
um from the perspective of being an
abductee and her family was subject
subjected to both alien abduction and my
labs military abduction. And Carla
Turner stuff is so fascinating. Um I
love Carla Turner. She died obvious
aggressive cancer. Believe Hopkins died
of cancer too if I'm not mistaken.
Barbara Barlick, if I recall, died in a
very died in a car accident. Um,
>> John Mack was hit by a car.
>> John Mack was hit by a car. And if I
recall, another guy named John Mack was
hit by a car in the same day, right in
in England. Something like that. Very
strange circumstances.
>> Weird.
>> And then, you know, David Jacobs is
still alive.
>> Yeah. I think has dementia,
>> I think. So,
>> um, and so Carla Turner was was
>> What's the the lesson here is don't
study alien abductions or something,
>> you know? Think about that.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, Turner said that um she would
say that she would be in her book, she
wrote she wrote the book um um Taken.
>> She wrote the book Into the Fringe,
which was the story about her family.
And then of course Masquerade of Angels,
which documents the story of Ted Rice,
who's still alive. And and Turner was so
fascinating because she was so so
um unflinchingly objective. Even though
her life was being affected by this, she
would say, "We don't know where they're
from, and we cannot believe anything
they tell us.
>> Here's what we know. We know they take
us against our will. We know that they
force us to carry babies. We know that
they take sperm and eggs. We know that
they subject us to all kinds of invasive
procedures. So, she was very very she
was not like
trying to put her own spin on it. Um,
which I really appreciated about Carla.
I I I I we really lost a a an amazing
researcher and Carla Turner when she
died. Um, and the new, you know, all
these new people coming to Euphology,
they don't they don't they don't read
Turner. They don't read Hopkins, you
know. So, but what I was going to say
about Turner was um she really
highlighted
uh a couple of things, the capabilities
of these beings. She referred to what
something she described as virtual
reality scenarios,
VRS's, that these beings were were in
possession of technology that allowed
them to fabricate virtual reality
experiences so that an abductee can be
seeing and hearing things and in this
complete virtual environment and you
could have other people around them and
they're not seeing the same thing. So,
it's like a hijacking of human
perception. It's literally Decart's
demon.
>> Yes. So you could they have the ability
to hijack I think both through
telepathic powers and through technology
the implants. So and and external
technology that's directed toward the
abductee. So
Turner's first like the first thing she
would stress or one of the main things
in her books and in her lectures was you
cannot believe these beings. You can't
you can't believe anything they're
showing you. You can't even trust your
own experiences when you're with them
because they control your perception
100%.
You are under their control. That's the
that's one of the main things she would
stress.
>> I think that's a very healthy starting
point as to how to how to think about
all this.
>> It is a very healthy starting point. So
all these people establish like with
alien abduction, John Mack and and David
Jacobs and all of this really culminates
in David Jacobs. Like David Jacobs I
feel like pulls all the pieces together,
puts them together
>> um
>> from a very objective uh um from a very
objective perspective. Uh he of course
being was a tenure professor of history
at at Temple University. So he was
approaching it as a historian and all of
these people m you know between them
they they interviewed thousands of
abductees thousands
and some of it was hypnotic regression
and some of it was like with David
Jacobs he didn't practice hypnotic
regression he just did what he called
relaxation techniques
and and so all of them would one of the
things that you realize is that this
phenomenon alien abduction Their
starting point just like you said is
deception.
That's how that's the starting point of
this phenomenon. Deception. The program
is covert.
The grays don't tell they don't
communicate to you what the program is
about. And you throw in the the virtual
reality scenarios that they generate.
And and that's not to say that the
abduction experience is virtual reality.
No, it's 100% physical. You're literally
taken from the point of abduction and
brought onto an alien vessel and
subjected to all the procedures that are
typical of the of the abduction episode.
But they have the power to completely
hijack hijack your perception. And in
addition to that, they implant false
memories.
So they they implant screen memories so
that the real memories have to be
retrieved behind that screen.
So when you're dealing with beings who
can do those things, you can't trust
anything that they say or that you think
happened. That's why
>> it reminds me of like the jin in Islam
or like these sort of trickster
beings that implant false literally
false memories and you
>> you think c like I think in in the Jyn's
case they would like change certain
verses of the Quran or whatever and that
was you know it's like
>> yeah sort of that typical trickery
that's associated with demons. However,
um I'm I'm I love Jacqu Valet. Um
but I would disagree that as a and so
did Dr. David Jacobs, by the way. I And
I would guess Turner probably would have
disagreed with this as well, although I
don't know that for sure. Jacobs
definitely
that that the alien abduction phenomenon
has anything to do with fairies and
gnomes and sky people. I disagree. I I
agree with Jacobs. I would say this is a
completely different phenomenon. Now,
does that mean that there weren't
saucers and and techn? No, no, it
doesn't. I think that that that sort of
technology did exist in the
anti-dolivian past. I'm just saying
there's a different faction in play
right now or at least another faction in
play. This specific faction, the gay
aliens, it it's interesting because I
remember
I had and I don't I think I said this in
my book. I had personally come to the
conclusion after consuming all of this
abduction material from from from these
excellent researchers, the old school
guys and gals.
I remember concluding
that it appears to me that the abduction
phenomenon must have begun
somewhere around the mid to late 1800s.
That was my conclusion. And I remember
um and I drew that conclusion based on
the fact that it seems that this
phenomenon, the recollections of this
phenomenon only go back to the mid
1800s, early 1900s.
Um, and I remember I was at the gym
working out with with my air with my
headphones on listening to David Jacobs
listen to one of his lectures and he
said in his lecture that he and Bud
Hopkins because they were colleagues and
and and did a lot of work together that
he and Bud Hopkins had concluded that
the abduction that the abduction
phenomenon began in the mid to late
1800s
>> and that it is not older than that.
And I was just astounded like that's
that's precisely what I thought and I
still think that to this day. I believe
that the abduction phenomenon began,
let's call it the turn of the century,
maybe late 1800s,
>> early 19th century, and this is in a
very interesting period of time,
because what most people don't realize
about the turn of the century, the 19th
century,
is that there is a corresponding
phenomenon happening all around the
world, especially in the United States
and in the West, generally speaking, it
was the phenomenon of spiritualism. M
>> I was in and when I wrote my book
Birthright, I was um resourcing articles
uh from the 18 late 1800s, early 1900s
all about this. I mean some of these art
all about this phenomenon of
spiritualism, this wave of spiritualism
and and some of these articles said one
of these articles in particular said
that it was it was as common at the at
the height of this thing for an American
to get up on a Sunday morning and go to
a seance as it was to go to church.
>> Wow.
>> And so when I say spiritualism, I'm
talking about, you know, basically what
the Bible describes as divination.
Um this is seances. These are uh all
kinds of sort of um psychic um acquiring
of medium.
>> Yeah. Mediumship.
>> Mediumship. It was happening in the
White House. Um it was it was extremely
common. This is when you had the
>> Yeah, go for it.
>> Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to
say it be a parasychology started then.
The Society for Psychical Research in
the UK started. Then you had William
James
>> and uh
>> those sisters, what were their names?
They can make tables levitate and stuff
like that. I forget the those sisters.
And
>> and you have and then of course you had
uh Theosophy um as well.
>> Bingo. Right in the middle of it. salons
looking at, you know, have with all this
occult history and these, you know, this
alternative history involving root races
and Hyperoreans and Atlantanss and that
sort of thing.
>> Right in the middle of it, the
theosophical society is established.
>> Exactly.
>> With Helena with Helen Levodsky and
um so you have this this
spiritualism
rampant in the West, the United States
and Europe. And then suddenly at the
same time you have the mystery airship
phenomenon.
>> Literally same time these things these
things coales
>> that's fascinating
>> the the the the movement of spiritualism
and the the airship phenomenon. Now,
I would say a good portion I remember
talking to Richard Dolan about this that
a good portion of the mystery airship
phenomenon is just hyperbolic
is is newspapers, periodicals at the
time just trying to one up each other,
right, with sensational stories. So
even even considering that that that
much of it was that you still have
incidents
nestled inside of this mystery airship
phenomenon that are very credible
witnessed by many many people and that
correspond to the modern UFO phenomenon.
Silvery objects flying in the sky. You
know, I think a lot of the the the
propellers and the balloons and all that
kind of stuff that people say they saw
on the mystery airship was
confabulation.
>> Remember, nobody's flying yet.
>> Nobody's flying yet.
>> It's pre-right brothers.
>> But you know what you have out there?
Jules Vern.
>> So you have the steampunk stuff
>> in the minds of the observers. And so I
think in many of these cases, nobody can
understand like you take a piece of
metal and throw it up in the sky and you
can't envision how this thing can just
stay up there, right? it falls to the
ground. So, see that little shiny thing
way up there? It must have balloons. It
must have propellers. I think a lot of
people confabulated,
>> you know, the they they sort of overlaid
the the steampunk stuff
>> just like chariots in the bottom.
>> Just like chariots. Precisely. Right.
So, but I think that you know when you
when you when you um when you distill
the credible real
uh sightings and you and you you know
you take all the cream off the top of
all of the hyperbole and and
sensationalism, you're left with a
phenomenon that is very much like what
we have today. very much like what we
have today in terms of the metallic
objects, the saucers, the cigar- shaped
craft, you know, darting around in the
sky, moving at impossible speeds.
And this corresponds with the the So you
have so you have spiritualism, mystery
airship, alien abduction coalescing at
the same time.
And this gets us us into some very
bizarre territory because I think that
this gets a little theological, but I
think that to some extent
we invited
>> the phenomena. Not not the totality of
it. I'm just talking about a sliver the
gray alien faction. Okay? And and this
is what people get confused with when
I'm when I'm talking. They sort of
jumble everything I'm saying and and not
you but a lot of people in my audience.
So, I've separated out the angelic
faction, okay, that were here long
before we were, right? They were here
long before we So,
they've been flying around here forever.
I mean, since before human beings were
were even created, biblically speaking,
that faction is out here. They're we've
already thrown them out into the ether.
Now, we're narrowing down on this other
one called gray aliens, which I would
say is a separate faction, a separate
thing. Now, people, you know, from from
my community, Christians,
there's some very interesting ideas out
there. Some people think that the gay
aliens were manufactured by that group.
I don't know. I mean, I I don't know. I
guess anything's possible. Some people
think that the grey aliens are meat
suits for demons. There's all kinds of
ideas floating around there, right? Some
people think the gray aliens, that
faction are the Watchers, whatever.
There's a lot of ideas, but what I'm
trying to do here is I'm I've took that
the Sons of God. I've separated them
out. Now, we're focused on gray aliens.
I think that the gray aliens arrived.
I don't believe they're from here. I
think they came here.
>> Okay? They arrived to the Earth. Um,
maybe there were some forward groups
that were here just sort of preparing,
but the abduction phenomenon began, as
far as I can tell, and in in in in
accord with Hopkins and and Jacobs, the
the abduction
phenomenon began in the mid mid to late
1800s.
And I think that it had something to do,
the Grey's arrival had something to do
with the phenomenon of spiritualism.
There's a coalesing of these two things
happening and um maybe we were
broadcasting something, maybe we were
think again theologically speaking,
maybe we were permitting something to
happen through divination.
Um just speculating here, but but I
don't think it's coincidental that these
two things dubtail.
>> No. And it's really interesting, you
know, you hear about this magenta crash,
you know, 1933 in Italy.
>> And, you know, it's being spoken about
in very official circle like this is
what David Grush came out with talking
about. He wasn't talking about, you
know, Roswell or any of the kind of
proverbial archetypal American crashes.
And then I interviewed this guy, uh,
Harold Malgren, who is this, you know,
adviser to JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford.
and he's talking about how James Jesus
Angleton, who's this longtime CIA
counterintel guy who discusses UFOs a
lot and is probably responsible for the
MJ12 docks getting leaked and it, you
know, makes you think that maybe part of
that's passage material trying to catch
Soviet spies at the time because that
was what he was obsessed with.
>> But he was stationed in Magenta, Italy
with his father, Hugh Angel. And
Malmgrren is 89 when I'm interviewing
him and he is just obsessing over this
idea that the Knights of Malta have
something to do with this crash. And you
know they're obviously this uh military
arm of the Vatican. Yeah.
>> But they also have kind of you know
>> headquarters at the Vatican.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And they have uh esoteric
roots. You know they're they're really
the um heirs to the hospital which are
the kind of medic arm to the Templars.
And then you hear of things like the
Cosmo Club, you know, had to do with UFO
crash. This is this like elite like DC
society which was doing kind of a cult
stuff. And this guy, Dark Journalist,
talks a lot about this stuff. But I've
heard it in circles in UFO whistleblower
circles as well. And so there is
something here. And I don't
>> I think we're looking at the remnants of
the mystery schools here.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> And so the mystery schools are to the
average person. So the mystery schools
are secret bodies, secret fraternities
whose objective it is to preserve and
recover knowledge from the anti-dolivian
world.
>> The knowledge that was given to mankind
by the gods.
>> That's what the that's the objective of
the mystery school is. And that's why
they go back to at least the
phoenetians. You know, the Freemasons,
they trace their origins back to, well,
really back to Tubalcane and Cain, the
first builders of cities, but but even
more specifically, one of their primary
figureheads is Hyram Abif,
>> right? We we referenced him earlier,
who's the uh who was the great artificer
of of the Phoenicians at the time. I
believe he was he was part Jewish and uh
part Phoenician. And so these mystery
schools the the information that they
keep that they preserve
on the surface it looks metaphysical.
On the surface it looks mythic
>> like the Freemasons, right? All of their
um all of their you when you see there's
a video leaked recently of a
Freemasonic, right?
>> And it just looks like a bunch of adults
playing dress up. Right. Um, and it is
at this point in time, that's primarily
what free the the the Freemasonic lodges
are. It's a good old boys club where
they dress up and act out things they
don't understand.
>> But the the play acting is a is a mode
of preservation of knowledge.
>> So the mystery schools preserve
knowledge in their rights and in their
myth their their various mythologies. In
fact, that's what mythologies do.
Um, if you were to talk to the ancient
sages, for example, and this becomes
apparent when you read material that's
available from some of these ancient
sages from Egypt and from Mesopotamia
and so forth. The the myth is is a
capsule.
>> It's it is designed to encase to
preserve like a pill. It's it's it's
designed to preserve and to transmit
through time functional information.
Knowledge, not metaphysical for the most
part, but but knowledge that pertains to
what we would call the sciences today.
And many of the myths pertain directly
to astrology
>> and and actually more accurately
astronomy. So many of the myths are
astronomical. The the information that's
encoded is is astronomical and a lot of
it pertains to what we call today the
zodiac
>> procession of the precession of the
equinoxes and cyclic cataclysm and and
these are things that were very
important to the ancients. But in
addition to that um there's information
and knowledge that has been preserved
from the anti-dolivian world. And
without digressing into the whole um
history of of of some of these myths
like the Osir the Osiris myth
um they they illustrate that the
knowledge that's being preserved is from
the anti-dolivian world and
by way of illustration Osiris according
to legend was
the story the myth of Osiris
you'll recall that he died in his body
was divided up.
I can't remember how many pieces. Yeah,
that's a very important uh part of the
story. I think it was 13 pieces. But
that story begins by his twin brother
Set, who's like the evil version of him,
um builds this coffin. He has this
coffin built cuz Set wants to uh usurp
Osiris's throne, get rid of him. And
Iris, of course, is Osiris is of course
married to his sister wife Isis. And and
so Set has this sumptuous coffin built
and he throws a party and he says in the
party, "I've I've I've got this
challenge. I've got this beautiful
coffin and whoever fits into it the best
most perfectly gets to keep it, right?"
But he already made the proportions to
fit his brother Osiris perfectly. So
when Osiris gets into the coffin set has
him sealed inside. Okay, first idea
here,
Osiris, a god from Zeppi, the
anti-delivian world, is sealed inside of
a coffin.
Then, um, set has the coffin thrown into
the Nile. So, here's Osiris inside of
the coffin who's obviously going to die.
He's thrown into the Nile in the coffin
and the coffin floats on the Nile.
So what we have essentially here is an
ark floating on the water with a body of
knowledge inside of it from the
anti-dolivian world. Right? Osiris
represents that body of knowledge
>> and it's floating on the water. Comes
out of the mouth of the of the um Nile.
Guess where it makes its way to
Biblo,
>> which is a Phoenician city. It goes to
Biblo. It gets uh beached on the shore
and it gets entangled in the roots of an
in the branches of an of an acacia tree.
Caseia trees are very important in the a
very important symbol in in the mystery
schools and in Freemasonry. It gets
encased in this acacia tree and so much
so that that you can't see it anymore.
It just becomes part of the trunk.
Now Isis decides to go on the quest to
try and find her husband's body. So
she's going through the lands looking
for her husband's body. Isis represents
the objective of the mystery school.
>> Isis embodies the adepts of the
mysteries. Her job is to go and find and
recover the body of Osiris
>> looking for the hermetic knowledge
>> for the lost knowledge. So she goes and
she finally makes her way to Biblo and
the king of that land, Meland, I think
was his name. It just occurred to me,
um, had had taken that tree. He was he
saw that tree and he thought it was
beautiful and he had it cut down. He had
taken it and incorporated it into his
palace as a pillar.
Well, that's interesting. That's
conveying that some of the knowledge is
incorporated into the architecture
>> of some of these palaces and temples and
so forth, right? The geometry now is
part of the the symbolism and some of
the messaging because remember inside of
that pillar is the coffin
containing the body of Osiris. So Isis
looks for uh she gets to Biblo looking
for her husband's body and she she she's
able to divine that the body of Osiris
is inside of the pillar. She has it cut
cut out. takes it back to Egypt.
Where was the pre flood knowledge
condensed two places?
Among the Phoenetians and among the
ancient Egyptians.
>> So the knowledge is goes to the
Phoenicians after the flood and then
from the Phoenetians to the Egyptians.
Right? You're tracing the idea here
through the story. So Isis has the body
of Osiris,
but Set gets a hold of it again, but
this time he wants to make sure it's not
found again. And so he chops it up, I
think, in 13 pieces. That's a that's a
detail I should know. Pretty sure it's
13. Maybe 14. I want to say 14 pieces. I
don't remember.
>> We forgive you.
>> You can. Yeah, you'll forgive me for
that. But it's it's chopped the the
number is important. I just can't
recall. Like I told you, I'm really bad
with numbers. So the body's chopped up.
>> You're not bad with general memory.
>> It's chopped up into pieces, and those
pieces are distributed. Yep.
>> All over the place. Cassette wants to
make sure this is never found again. He
takes the fallus, you know, chops off
his fallus and and it's thrown into the
Nile and either some stories say it's
swallowed by a croc, others say a big
fish. So the fallus is like gone, right?
And so I Isis, what does she do? She
embarks on another mission to recover
the various pieces of this knowledge
that had been scattered abroad. and she
starts to recover the body of Osiris,
which represents the body of
anti-dolivian knowledge, a knowledge
that was given to mankind by the gods.
She begins to assemble it, but she can't
find the final piece, which is the
fallus, cuz it was eaten. So, what does
she do? She fabricates one. She makes a
golden she makes an artificial fallace
so that she can copulate with Osiris.
She she resurrects him. She puts all the
pieces together. She resurrects him
momentarily with the artificial fallus.
She copulates with him and becomes
impregnated by him. So that and now
she's conceiving the offspring of
Osiris, which is Osiris who's going to
be reborn. And that child is named
Porus.
>> And so this this story communicates the
objective, the modus operandi of the of
the mystery school. It is to recover the
lost knowledge of the gods, reassemble
it, and resurrect their empire.
>> Literally bring them back.
>> And that may sound crazy and spooky and
metaphysical to everybody, but I'm
telling you that's what they want to do.
I I I I told you earlier that they that
one of the primary objectives in order
to do this is to go to Mars and get some
of the recover some of the knowledge
there. They want to bring the gods back
and they actually believe that the gods
are real. What's so interesting is so
this guy Neil McCasslin, do you know
that name?
>> He's trending on Twitter right now and I
don't know when this comes out but
hopefully he's found by the time this
comes out because this is a guy
>> who's a general.
>> He went missing. Yeah,
>> right Pat. And I believe ran the lab
that essentially, you know, foreign
material exploitation ended up with the
Roswell pieces if you believe the lore.
And he was Tom Delong's source for a lot
of his sort of stuff with Secret
Machines and To the Stars Academy was
known as this very kind of wise guy who
literally I mean he was uh AFL like ran
Air Force acquisition so like in
conventional circles as like an
impressive guy and apparently he would
talk a lot about Greek mythology and so
you have to and then you hear things
like Diana Pulka who talks to this NASA
mission controller Tim Taylor and she
talks about people in the quote unquote
secret space program or even
conventional space program rocketry,
you know, paying homage to the sponsors
with second century Latin. And then you
look at all the names of all of the
missions in NASA,
>> all the place, all of the lo local that
they land their stuff on. Yeah. All it's
all um from the the the the pantheon of
of of the Greeks and and the ancient
Egyptians and the Mesopotamians.
>> Yeah. It's fascinating. It's almost as
if they sort of secret believe they
secretly believe that those sort of
little G gods or the like you know the
Greek gods or you know whatever whatever
your tradition is the the you know uh
fallen angels
>> are like more vital in some sense than
the big G god or something and they're
sort of like you know communing with
them
>> that's where all of this is headed I
believe that's what I write in in
Birthright is the culmination of this
and we were talking about this off
camera so what we're headed for here
>> is the formulation of a new religion.
>> And I've been saying this since 2020. We
are headed for the formulation of a new
religion. See, everybody thought that
that the neo atheism that was on the
rise back in the the the 201s
was kind of just going to sweep over the
western world and basically eradicate
religion. And actually the opposite is
happening now. People are becoming more
religious.
>> Yep. and and and and you know there's a
lot of people who are who are becoming
Christians now but then also a lot of
people who are just adopting other kinds
of or becoming spiritual generally
speaking and then you have also now a
religion of technology that the elites
are are are obsessed with right the
Silicon Valley religion that you know I
think it was uh uh Ray Kerszsw when they
when they asked him do you believe in
God not yet in other words
>> in other words we're going to create god
artificial intelligence this is the
religion of the of of the technologies
>> and you have Noah Yuval Harrari writing
that homois that's like that's our next
incarnation like when man becomes like
God or something
>> in in 100 to what does he say 100 to 120
years from now there will be no more
human beings
>> left on planet earth and what he means
is that the human species is going to
evolve this is directed evolution right
so we're going to direct the the the
evolutionary ascent of our species using
technology ology. This is the first time
we've ever been able to do this. We are
now building the tools that are going to
give us the capability to modify the
human biology wholesale
and and integrate cybernetics,
artificial intelligence, and then also
something most people don't realize is
coming is the genetic revolution. Um,
artificial wombs, designer babies, all
coming along with robotics, advanced
robotics, and everything else. Uh, some
of it's here, right? Artificial womb
technology, I think, is here. We It's
just, you know, some of these things,
there's a moral gray area that that
there's some legislating that has to be
done and some of these um barriers that
have to be surmounted before this stuff
hits the commercial market. But the
point is that what I see is a
convergence of two things happening.
I see that a new religion being
formulated and it's going to combine the
convergence of these two ideas. One is a
very ancient idea. This is at the core
of the mystery schools. It's called
apotheiois.
>> And apotheiois is the deification of
man. Man becoming like the gods. That's
what apotheiois is. The second this the
second component is theism. A belief in
the gods. So the religion of the future
in my estimation is this.
The gods of old actually exist and we
shall become like them.
>> That is the religion of the future. And
what do I mean by the gods? They're
going to show up
>> in UFOs.
>> Wow.
>> The gods are coming. And I think this is
going to be a component of our going to
Mars.
>> Uhhuh.
>> Uh I think there's going to be a
revelation of Mars that's going to
happen in our lifetime. what we talked
about before that there's there was in
fact an ancient extra extraterrestrial
civilization on Mars and that the gods
of the ancients were actually
extraterrestrial beings. Of course the
claim will be also that Yahweh was one
of these extraterrestrial beings and
then furthermore culminating by the way
I'll remind you in from my point of view
culminating in Armageddon. So the idea
is going to be and this is by the way
going full circle back to the beginning
of the story where Eve is being tempted
by the serpent in Eden and what does the
serpent say to her? If you eat of this
fruit you will not surely die. You will
be become like the gods.
>> So it's going full circle back to the
beginning. So you're going to have a
scenario in which again from my in my
estimation from my perspective in which
it becomes apparent that the gods of Y
were these real extraterrestrial beings
and the god of the Hebrews is one of
those and he happens to be the tyrant.
And so the gods are going to lead
humanity into a kinetic war. And it
really it's posthumity. I know this
sounds crazy, but I do build and I'm not
I'm not I don't keep referencing
Birthright just to to promote it, but
really I do build a a it sounds crazy,
but but you can build a logical pro
progression to this reality. And part of
this reality is what I call the
posthuman apocalypse.
And what what I mean by posthuman
apocalypse is precisely what Harari says
that in the future the the the majority
of the pop populace on planet earth will
be posthuman. We'll no longer be homo
sapiens sapien. In other words, we'll no
longer be the offspring of Adam and Eve
biblically speaking. They're going to
forfeit the the they're going to forfeit
the body of Adam, so to speak, and with
it the birthright of Adam, which is
dominion of the earth, in favor of this
this fouian bargain, in favor of life
extension, in favor of living forever.
And there's indications in the biblical
text that this is in fact going to
happen. I mean in the book of revelation
you have a group of people who are are
when when when everything is coming
apart in the book of revelation when
basically the judgment of God is
befalling on earth you have a group of
people who cannot die
>> and who are calling for the rocks to
fall on them and crush them because they
can't die.
>> Uh very interesting I mean you can
imagine a scenario maybe not that far
down the road in which we perfected
nanotechnology.
We've we're we're upgrading we're up
maybe I don't know that this is possible
we're uploading our consciousness into
artificial bodies maybe nanotech bodies
maybe robotic whatever um combination of
all these technologies
see the culmination of these
technologies make no mistake about it
the culmination of the technologies is
to is to redesign human biology
>> it is it is to create
homodos.
>> It is to create to build the uberch.
>> It is it is it is that's the um Friedri
Nichze that is the the impulse of
evolution. Friedrich NZ
obviously the the the famed philosopher
Friedri Nichze
was a proponent of evolution but he
didn't like evolution by natural
selection why because Darwinism
evolution by natural selection has no
purpose
>> right it's purposeless it's blind
na
didn't believe evolution was blind he
believed that evolution had a purpose
and the purpose purp of evolution was to
bring forth the uber mch,
>> the superman, the superhuman
in the earth.
>> That's what I mean. It feels like post
World War II eugenics just went
underground and you see I don't know all
this stuff coming out with the Epstein
files and it's weird, man. It's
>> it's it is inshed with the occult.
>> Yeah, it feels inshed with the occult.
It feels very transhumanist.
>> I think the transhumanism stuff can be
tricky. Like there are things like
>> IVF for example or things that are like,
you know, it's probably pretty positive.
You know, like modern medicine is good
on the whole
>> gene therapy.
>> Gene therapy would be awesome.
>> Gene therapy you're taking. So, you
know, our genomes are are we have a
what's called a mutational load in our
genome, which means that we're copies of
copies of copies and copies of copies.
And every time you make those copies,
you get you get errors in the code,
right? Some geneticists believe we're
headed for error catastrophe, by the
way, which means we can't reproduce
anymore.
>> That's that's a thing that's believed
quietly by population geneticists, by
the way. We're going to become
reproductively inviable.
>> Enter artificial wombs. M
>> so um so the idea is that you get to a
point where you're reproductive
reproductively inviable because your
genome has broken down to such an extent
that that
you're dying you're dying of all kind we
have tons and tons of genetic diseases.
Um but I'm digressing into this. I'm
sorry I cut you off. No, I mean so
that's it's clear to me that all of that
is happening and even the thought
process of hey this is healing versus
this is extending our brains and you
know turning us into some posthuman
thing that thought process is not
occurring among elite circles or
whatever. It's this reflexive desire for
uh selfdeification for everlasting life
you know all that. That's right.
>> And then you said something else very
interesting. you said that will coincide
with the gods themselves returning. So
it'll there'll also be this theological
element to this. So is in your
prediction cuz I think the I think the
prediction around elites doing
transhumanist you know selfdeification I
think that's safe. The other prediction
of you know the return of these beings
in UFOs would you put a lot of weight in
that? Do you believe that that will
happen in our lifetime? Oh, in our
lifetime probably.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I I I I I suspect and by the way
to complete my thought which I I rambled
on, I was going to tell you I was going
to agree with you that there are certain
technologies that I'm totally for gene
therapy. The reason why I said that was
because the human genome is so um is so
full of error and mutation that you have
what we know to be the correct code
here. And if somebody's got a mutated
gene, it leads to cancer. It leads all
kind cell anemia. So if you go over here
and you take that human gene that the
right code and you plug it in to the
equation, it it cures the disease,
right? So I'm all for that. I just want
to make that clear. I'm not like a lite.
I think you could take gene therapy
human to human. The problem is when
you're starting to either grab code,
snippets of code that aren't human,
cross species genetics, or you're
creating new code and you're modifying
the genome in ways that are not natural
to the to the genome that are not
indigenous to the human genome. So just
to draw that line um that delineation as
it pertains to these technologies. But
yeah, I believe that the you know at
some point so here's why I see of course
I could be completely wrong. Okay, this
is just ranked speculation here. Um,
I think that we're headed for a
disaster.
Um, twofold disaster.
I think that we are headed for a natural
uh cataclysm because we're due for one.
The hour is now for cataclysm based on
the zodiac. And we could talk about that
later based on the the precession of the
equinox and all of that. We are
transitioning from one aon into another.
Okay. And when that happens, that's
that's called a sentellia. Lasts for a
thousand years. And within those
thousand years, cataclysm befalls like
clockwork. Um going back and referencing
what we're talking about the priest of
Sai explaining all of this to Solon of
Athens. That's a component over here.
Cataclysm is coming.
But in conjunction with the cataclysm is
you have the activity of gray aliens
which we were mentioning before. The
grays appear to be
engineering
a human
alien hybrid species
>> that is indistinguishable from us but is
not us. a species that for all intents
and purposes looks just like us, but
they retain the telepathic capabilities
of the grace. They can control us. In
other words, and one of the most
frightening things about uh one of the
most alarming things about Jacob's final
book, Walking Among Us,
is
he documents
the latest thing that the that the
abductees were telling him from their
abduction episodes
in that he called this personal project
hybrids. Are you familiar with that? The
personal project hybrid. So he described
this as personal project hybrids because
the grays have been trying to perfect a
hybrid and and this progression is
evident in the in the abduction material
because in the beginning people were
encountering abductees were encountering
hybrids that were very imperfect. Their
heads were too big, their hair was
scraggly, their eyes were too big. They
kind of look human but they look too
much like the grays. They were too
short. Um, and as the years progressed,
so did the program. And you were getting
more refined hybrids that looked more
and more like us until until
lately or at least when when uh Jacobs
published his book, was it 2016
somewhere around there? Um, he was
reporting
these the these advanced human alien
hybrids that he described he calls
hubids.
And they're so advanced that, as I said
before, they're indistinguishable from
us, but they retain the telepathic
capabilities of the grays. And they are
completely
loyal. Their their allegiances to the
grace, not to human beings. And and so
these advanced human alien hybrids would
be assigned, according to Jacobs, would
be assigned to certain female abductees.
So you got these male hybrids. They're
they're assigned to female abductees.
These these Jacobs called personal
project hybrids because the female
abductee, they would have to
they would have to um tutor
the hybrid and teach them about life on
Earth. Teach them how to do mundane
things. How to go into a grocery store
and buy groceries without looking like a
freak. How to just be out in public, how
to drive a car, what a refrigerator is,
what a TV is. Just the the most basic
things. And what's really frightening, I
should use the word word alarming.
What's really alarming is that these
these hubris according to Jacobs are
psychopaths. Like these are like uh
superhuman villains. They they they
abuse these women sexually, but also
verbally. They completely manipulate and
control them. They're very violent. They
beat them in certain cases. These are
really really evil people, these
hybrids, according to the accounts from
from the from the uh abductees.
They're very abusive or at least some of
them. And so it makes you wonder like
what is the endgame here? Well, David
Jacobs said that the endgame of the
abduction program was planetary
acquisition by stealth.
So they integrate themselves into us.
It's the opposite of the Borg from from
Star Trek, right? the Star Trek in Star
Trek the Borg assimilate other factions
into themsel where the grays integrate
themselves into our civilization and
it's a conquest by stealth
>> and so I think that elements of the
United States government are aware of
this
>> and I think and certainly if you
referencing Carla Turner's work one
thing that Carla was always talking
about was the fact that some of these
abductees
were being would be abducted by gray
aliens and then when they were turn
returned to their homes the military
would show up
>> and and and then they would they would
endure a myab a military abduction which
was often times much more violent and
the military according to Turner
>> and her husband got abducted by the way
Turner's husband was abducted by
elements of the military they think they
were brought on to air force bases in
some cases sometimes underground bases
and they were interviewed Ed and um
interviewed a nice way to say it. Um
they were what's the word? Uh
>> interrogated.
>> Interrogated. Thank you. They were
interrogated
in regard to what was happening on the
alien vessel. What were the grays doing?
They were trying to figure out what the
grays were doing. And they're trying to
use the abductees to to get insight into
what the grays were doing.
>> And because I think there's there panic
had ensued by that time. I don't know
what you think about this. I personally
am persuaded
that the Greta contract was real, that
it actually happened.
>> So this is this Eisenhower agreement
that essentially in exchange for, you
know, some tactical advantage, maybe
some help with, you know, warfare,
whatever. Uh they would we would let the
aliens do sort of medical experiments
across, you know, the United States
population
>> to abduct our citizenry. I so I don't
know but I also if you look at the data
it seems like abduction sort of ramped
up around that time like midcentury.
So uh it's it's very interesting
>> they did uh and this is what um what I I
think the some of these researchers
would would
have concluded was that yes there was a
an increase in abductions and and the
abduction phenomenon is exponential
>> because it's it's hereditary.
>> So if you know Eisenhower's
granddaughter is an abductee and is like
all over this issue which is really
interesting Laura. Exactly.
>> So, um, alien abduction is hereditary.
And so, if your if your parents were
abductees or one of your parents, then
that you're you're also an abductee.
It's hereditary. I found no exception to
that rule.
>> Now, the reason why I'm so
>> It runs in families.
>> Yes, it's it's definitely hereditary.
So, the reason why I'm so uh interested
in this phenomenon is because I interact
with a lot of abductees. They come to me
and they tell me their stories and of
course I'm always aware of the fact that
you know you got screen memories in
there, you got VR, you know, VRS
scenarios and so forth and you sort of
have to navigate circumvent some of
that. But basically, and they're coming
to me all the time. I'll probably get
another wave of them after this
interview. And they're all telling the
same story still. Maybe there's some
variation in there that I haven't picked
up on, but from what I've seen, it's
it's the same thing. is they're they're
being abducted and they're being
integrated into this breeding program
forcibly. The men are having the sperm
taken, the women are are having ova
taken and then there's some sort of in
vitro fertilization with some exotic
component. Then that's that's reinserted
into the woman's womb or or an
extrauterral womb. Even if the woman
doesn't have a womb, you know, uh she
had a hysterctomy. Is that what it's
called? They take the womb out and then
the grays create an artificial womb
>> and and these women they carry these
babies, these hybrid fetuses
um for about 3 months right before they
really start to show and then they're
they're they're abducted and the and the
fetuses are taken out and put in
gestation tanks. This is the ongoing
procedure. This is what's happening and
it's still happening. I know there's a
narrative out there that alien abduction
isn't happening anymore. Not as far as I
can tell. I have a friend, by the way,
who who I've known him for years,
and I've always suspected that he and
his kids were abductees.
>> Why do you suspect that?
>> Because of various experiences and
dreams, dreams,
>> sure,
>> things like that. Um, uh, things that
were indicative of alien abduction.
>> And I never really,
>> I think I've asked him in the past if he
thought he was an abductee, and he never
thought he was. But the other day, ju
this this last spring,
uh I was in my office working and he
happened to be at my house and and he
came in in my office and we're talking
for a second and then he's walking out
and he stopped and he said he turned
around and he said, "I forgot to tell
you. They came and got me."
>> Whoa.
>> And I was like, "What do you mean? Who's
they? Who came and got you?" He said,
"The grays. They came and got me."
>> Whoa.
And and then he walked up to me, pulled
up his sleeve, he said, "Look."
And he had the typical that I don't know
if you ever seen this, the delta
>> Yeah.
>> formation. Little dots.
>> The dots. The delta formation. A lot of
abduct.
>> Yeah. And it and it had been a couple of
weeks and it was fading, but it was
clearly there. He said, he said, "I had
this wild experience at night." He was
like, "I was sort of out of it and all
this weird stuff, and I woke up with
that." And he's like, "I they came and
got me.
And it was just like a punch in my face
like you know I'm constantly being
reminded yeah that this thing is real
and it's ongoing and we were talking
about the implants earlier too. I think
all abductes are implanted by the way
>> and so anyway so that's happening and if
and if Jacobs is correct and I think he
is that the objective is planetary
acquisition that they're integrating
these human alien hybrids
indistinguishable from us into human
society. Right. What's the endgame
there? Who knows? to direct civilization
in a particular way and elements of our
government know about it, then that is a
clear and present danger. I mean, that
is it's like a sci-fi
>> Yeah.
>> movie. It's like a it's it's like a
scenario that's that's
um it's ultra red alert. The human
species is is being usurped from within,
right?
>> And so, why do I bring that up? Remember
I talked about the natural catastrophe
that's coming the cataclysm cyclic.
We're due. We're within the we're in a
sentellia right now. And we can talk
about that more if you want later. Well,
how we know that, but we're in a
sentellia. Cataclysm is going to befall.
Now, that's a thousand-year window. So,
we don't know when exactly, but we're
within the window. And then you have
gray aliens doing what they're doing
simultaneously. So, what do I think is
going to happen?
>> I think somebody's going to show us show
up to deliver us. M interesting.
>> From either one of these or both of
them.
>> Whoa.
>> And that that group will be received as
the gods returning to the earth. That
these are the gods. Perhaps they'll say
that they created us. They spliced our
genome with Bigfoot or something or some
homminid, some some ancient homminid and
and that they provided some of their own
genetic material and they've been sort
of guiding us through our evolution all
of these centuries, all of these
millennia. And in your view that should
be viewed as a deception
>> from my point of view.
>> Yeah.
>> This would be the group that the that
the Bible identifies as as the man of
sin.
>> Yep.
>> The antichrist basically presenting
himself as the savior in place of
Christ.
>> Jesus was one of us or I am Jesus. That
sort of a thing. And showing up to to uh
to deceive humanity. Of course, that's a
very uh specific point of view. It's a
point of view coming from a a biblical
perspective, but I think my god, I mean,
the trajectory is certainly headed that
way. And so, and that and that what
happens then is humanity is is and by
the way, in the in the book of
Revelation,
this figure head, the beast is what the
revelation calls him, right? this figure
head uh the beast consolidates
power on earth, governmental power on
earth and then he leads mankind into
worship of the dragon. That's what
happens. He leads mankind into worship
of the dragon. And so I think that the
narrative that's coming is that these
beings are going to show up. Wouldn't be
surprised if they look like Nordics.
Contrast that with the grays. You know,
here's the clear enemy who's we have no
defense, by the way, against this enemy.
They're far more advanced than we are.
They're integrating themselves into our
populace.
We have a natural disaster on the
horizon. These beings show us to show up
to deliver mankind from from these
disasters. They will be received as our
extraterrestrial saviors, our
progenitors, our Prometheian
benefactors. M
>> and then
according to my perspective they will
lead humanity post humanity really lead
humanity into the final stages of a
posthuman transformation and then they
will take the armies of earth and and
their faction to go to literally go to
war with the king of heaven
>> returning to the earth that's called
Armageddon. Now again, I know that that
may sound plausible to Christians and it
may sound utterly ridiculous to people
who aren't Christians and people with
different persuasions, but there is
definitely a biblical case for what I
just laid out.
>> Yeah. Fascinating. Speaking of evidence
of Nephilim and this whole narrative,
you're one of the few people I know who
has gone deep on this phenomena of
giants and giant bones and and mythology
around giants. But I I think maybe most
interestingly is you've encountered uh
personnel in the air force who have
fought giants in Kandahar in Afghanistan
in the mid 2000s. Is that correct?
>> Yeah. I this so this begins for me this
begins with with Steve
>> Quail.
>> I used to work with Steve Quail who's an
author and and really his area of
research his primary area of research
was biblical giants and I was working
with Steven Montana and we created a uh
we created a production company called
Gen 6 Productions and we were making a
film series at the time called True
Legends which was focused primarily on
giants, right? and looking for evidence
of giants and and so forth. And in the
midst of this, uh, Steve was contacted
by a an elderly woman who told him that
her son had a story that he needed to
hear, but her son did not want to come
forward because he was still active
duty. And she said, "You need to my son
has a story. You need to hear it." And
she ultimately she was able to convince
her son to come to tell Steve the story.
So he got in contact with Steve. I
believe they went on coast to coast with
George and Nori. That's the first time
they that that this individual's story
was heard. And then subsequent to that,
uh, he we we we wanted to put him in our
film in our documentary series. And so
we flew him out to Boseman, Montana, and
we interviewed him, Steve and I. He
showed us his CV, his credentials. He
was active duty. He was a he was a um a
C130 pilot, cargo pilot, and um and he
told us a bunch of stuff about his
background. He was a fascinating guy uh
and just a lot of um confirming data and
just really demonstrating to us that he
was who he said he was. And then we
interviewed him, but he did he wanted to
be interviewed in silhouette. like he
knew that, you know, his voice is
already out there and people he
understood people were going to be able
to put the pieces together and figure
out who he was if they wanted to, but
just just to maybe add a little layer of
of making a little bit more difficult,
he wanted to be filmed in silhouette.
So, we filmed him in silhouette and he
told us uh the story that has since
become known as the Kandahar giant. It's
grown into a mythology on the internet,
right? But this is where it begins. Um,
so he was a, as I said, he was a C130
pilot and he would fly missions into
into Bram airfield in Afghanistan.
And he would describe these missions as
as classified and he would always often
be called in to pick up high valued
assets.
And he said, usually these were like
Taliban guys. Um, and
so this was routine for him. I mean one
day he's flying in there I he said in
2005
he was flying a routine mission into
Bram airfield. He lands on the tarmac
and I've been getting this detail wrong
for those who've been hearing me say
this. Um I've been saying he he he
disembarked from the plane and walked
over to the hangar. That's not true. I
double checked the other day. uh he he
disembarks he he he deplanes with his
crew and they're met on the tarmac by
individuals he describes as the
babysitters
and he thinks that these are air force
intelligence or army intelligence
something like that and they told him
right away he said I've never been met
on the tarmac like this I always go over
to the hanger and get my cargo
and they said this never happened no
pictures don't ever talk about it
and as they'reing standing there. As
he's standing with the babysitters, he
sees a a um a um
forklift bringing over a crate, a huge
crate, one of the an an air pallet. Um
an air cargo pallet, which are, you
know, I think they're 14 ft. I think I
got that right. No, no, no, not 14.
There's there 9 ft long. Somebody will
correct me if they're 9 ft long by
something. 7 by9, I think, is what
they're they're larger than like the
pallets at Home Depot. And they're
heavier, you know, there there's dunage
under them and they're heavy. And so
it's a nine foot long pallet and there's
something on it and it's whatever's on
it is covered with a tarp. And he said
the first thing that hit him was the
odor. It was this pungent odor of like
bo and death. And it was he said it was
like unlike anything he's ever
encountered. And then as they put this
thing down on the ground so it can be
weighed and loaded into the aircraft, he
realized that that the tarp wasn't
covering the whole thing. That parts of
this thing were hanging out. And it was
apparent that it was a really really big
dude in his words. And but it was not a
normal person because it was in the
fetal position and it was it was hanging
off the pallet in the fetal position. 9
foot long pallet hanging off the pallet.
part of its head was, you could see part
of its head. You could see its hands and
its feet hanging off the pallet and they
weren't covered by the tarp. And he said
that uh the the hair of this being was
red. The skin was pale,
white. He said it had six fingers on
each hand and six toes on each foot. And
the feet were wrapped in a very uh
primitive canvas type wrapping. And he
said he and the guys that were standing
around the body were actually taking
their boots and putting it up to the
foot.
And he said it was, you know, twice as
big as every twice, three times bigger
than everybody's boot. I mean, the feet
were enormous. They're all putting their
feet up to the foot. And and he said
this thing was solid as a rock. He would
he was they were all kind of tapping it
on the top. And he said it was like a
brick. I mean, this thing was just like
solid muscle. So he said it could have
been some rigor mortise or whatever, but
but I mean it was apparent from what you
could see of this dude that he was he
was a brick house. So how tall?
>> So the pallet was 9 ft long and he's in
the fetal position. So they estimated
his size at 10 to 12 feet tall.
>> Wow.
>> They weighed the giant they weighed this
being because they had to weigh it. The
load master had to weigh it before they
put it on the C130. He weighed the whole
thing weighed I think they told me and I
could be wrong but I think it was 1,500
lb. And then when you subtract all the
dunage and the pallet and whatever else,
I know that the final weight was,00 lb.
The final weight was 11. And he told me
for sure, he said the weight was this
thing weighed, 1100 lb.
And so you can imagine, let's say it was
12 feet tall, 1,100 lb.
So I mean I mean this thing weighs more
than like a Kodiak bear. I mean it's a
massive massive guy. And then, you know,
he was asking about the the body, like
where' you where'd you guys get this
thing? And and they told him that they
had heard they they didn't know. They
didn't have firstand knowledge. They
heard that a group of guys got lost
somewhere out in Afghanistan that this
this group was out there. This these
military guys were out there doing
something, recon, and they they weren't
reporting back in. So, they sent out
another group to look for him. another
team went out to look for that that
first team.
And when that second team found them,
they found them either at the mouth of a
cave or in a cave. I can't remember
where, but it was in the vicinity of a
cave. And they were all dead and and
this gigantic humanoid was eating on one
of them
and it and and they were able to kill
it. They were able to take it down. So,
it killed the whole first team. That's
what he heard. Now again, that's that's
what those guys had heard had heard. So
maybe that was just a rumor. Um but
either way, the the giant was airlifted
from the Kandahar region and and
deposited at Bram to be picked up by the
pilot.
And um so he loaded the giant onto the
aircraft and then they they transferred
it to Qatar, a base in Qatar. And that's
where his that's where his interaction
with this being ends.
>> So he was part of the transport of the
body.
>> Yes. And he said he told me he heard
through the grape vine. He said, "I
don't know if this true, but I heard
through the grapevine
that the giant ended up at Wright
Patterson."
>> He said, "I don't know if it's true, but
that's what I heard."
>> And he was sure that the being was dead
while he was
>> dead. Yeah, it was definitely dead.
>> Was it shot? Yes, they full they they
Yeah, they they filled it full of
ammunition. So, I mean the thing and and
from what I he said that it was it was
it took a lot of firepower to take him
down.
>> Jesus. Did he sound kind of traumatized
as he's telling
>> No, no, no. He he sounded very
fascinated like this crazy thing
happened. Here's what happened.
>> He wasn't traumatized because he didn't,
you know, he wasn't involved in the
interaction with the giant when it was
alive and he didn't know if the story of
it eating on guys was true. Sure. So
that's just what they had heard. So he's
like, I can't confirm that, but this is
what they told me.
>> Still, even seeing the thing, it's like,
[ __ ] that's pretty crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Since conducting that interview with
with the pilot in subsequent years, I've
been able to confirm that story by
several sources or have that story
confirmed by several sources. And and I
have to be very careful because I want
to protect these guys. Um, and I should
say before I get into that that my my
colleague who I referenced earlier,
Ellie Marculli, he had a guy come to him
and this is important because this was
confirmation of the story that we had
heard from our pilot. Ellie Marculi had
a guy come to him, a different guy. I
think it was a special ops guy from the
I don't remember what what branch, but
but he told Ellie Marculi a very similar
story about the Kandahar giant. We don't
know if it was the same giant or if it
was a different one. But in but in that
story, they said it was 2003 as opposed
to 2005. Maybe our pilot remembered the
date wrong. I don't know. Or maybe they
were remembering the date wrong. But in
their story, very very similar. A team
went a team went missing. Another team
was dispatched to find it. They
encountered this giant in a cave. And in
that story, the giant skewered one of
the guys with a spear
and but but apart from that, all the
details are pretty much the same. Uh so
we don't know. LA and LA and I don't
know if if it's the same story or if
these are two separate stories. Sure.
>> So,
>> well, if there's one giant out there,
>> well, well, after after LA told that
story publicly, he put it in a film and
after he went public with it, our pilot
got got a hold of us again. and he he
contacted Steve Quail and he told Steve
and then he told me subsequently that
that he knows that the the other story
is true because he purposely withheld
certain details from the story so that
if somebody comes forward trying to add
additional information, he could vet
whether or not they're telling the truth
and he said that guy is telling the
truth.
>> Whoa. So that was kind of a confirmation
from our guy that Ellie Marculli's guy
was telling the truth. Now apart from
that I've interacted with a handful of
people um some
soldiers, others
officers
that have confirmed to me that a that
story is true and b there are even
wilder stories and there are more giants
out there than just one obviously. Um
and and then also that this is one of
the that this is this
this topic is one of the most highly
classified dangerous topics to broach.
>> Why do you think it's so danger like my
I almost suspect it's more dangerous
than UFOs and crash retrievals? Because
it's confirmation somewhat maybe of an
origin story of human. Like it really
breaks Darwin. Unless you come up with
some other reason as to why these giants
exist. Evolution of primitive to
progress apes to mankind is kind of
broken by this. Like where did the
giants come from?
>> There are some
difficulties for evolution by natural
selection, but not too many. I mean,
they could just say that this was a
divergent homo sapien species that
branched off of what it could.
>> So they could just add another branch of
the tree, so to speak. Totally.
>> Other people think that the reason why
this is such a touchy subject and
apparently very highly classified, the
existence of giants both in a in an
ancient context and in a contemporary
context
is because it affirms the biblical
narrative. Although that's true, I don't
think that's it either because it
doesn't just affirm the biblical
narrative like we were saying earlier.
It affirms the ubiquitous testimony of
our antence from the ancient world in
general. I mean, everybody had
mythologies of giants. The Egyptians,
they did, the Mesopotamians, they had
the Greeks, the Romans, the pol the the
Polynesians, everybody. The Inca, the
Aztec, everybody.
>> It would explain a lot of this
megalithic architecture.
>> Yeah. Well, potentially. Yeah. The North
American Indians had legends of giants.
Six-fingered red-haired giants, by the
way.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You've done some great
videos on that.
>> Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, the
giants were being unearthed by the
Smithsonian Smithsonian institution in
the mountains of America
right during that time when we were
talking about the spiritualism and and
uh and and the uh the the um airship
phenomen the mystery airship phenomenon
right in that time we're unearthing the
bones of giants out from the mountains
from within the mountains the Indians.
>> So why hide if you're in the Smithsonian
or the Air Force why hide this stuff?
So, I've been I I I have my own theory
here, and it it may or may not be true,
but I have a feeling that really what's
behind this, what's behind the secrecy
is the occult.
Because if you know anything about the
legends of giants, you'll find out
really quickly that
there was a cult of giants in the
ancient world, especially among the
Canaanites, but not exclusive to the
Canaanites. And there were some things
that were known about the giants. For
example, it was known that the giants in
some cases it was believed that they
could be resurrected. In other cases, it
was it was believed that and almost
universally actually that the spirits of
the giants could be contacted. Remember
I said in the book of Enoch that when
this when the giants were killed that
their spirits departed their bodies and
that they persisted in the world as
vagabond wraiths, right? So those so
those are the demons of the New
Testament and and so those spirits are
in the world and occult practitioners
believe that they can make contact with
those spirits either to harness their
power or to extract information from
them to attempt to control them uh or
maybe maybe because they're looking for
to possess themselves or other people. I
don't know. I I I don't know. But
there's definitely in the ancient
context there was a cult of giants. And
in fact uh
in in the areas where biblically
speaking we know there were giants and
then archaeologically speaking I would
say we know there were giants such as
the island of Sardinia you have and also
Minorca the island of Monorca and Spain
you have a lot of in fact all over much
of the world you have dolmans. you know,
dolmans, which are these sort of
freestanding large stones, megalithic
stones. Oftent times they're shaped like
um um almost like a little house, you
know, with like three walls and a big
slab of stone on top. Various
configurations of dolmans, some of them
are quite large, many of them
megalithic. Um and I believe that the
dolmans are associated with the giants,
not just because they're large stones,
but they're associated with the cult of
giants. And this is this is this is what
I would describe as as Canaanite or
Canonitic sorcery. More specifically,
Canaanite necromancy
because necromancy is the
it's it is the let's call it the dark
art of trying to contact the dead or
resurrect the dead.
Uh and this is definitely this was
definitely a belief in Canaan among the
Canaanites. We know because there are
eucharitic texts that have been
discovered that have uh that have
summoning rights that are summoning dead
Nephilim.
In other words, it's like a it's like a
an attempt to resurrect either resurrect
dead Nephilim, re-mbod them, or contact
their spirits.
>> Gollum or something.
>> Yeah. Like the myth,
>> right? And
>> Whoa. And and but before I forget,
there's a little bit of a there's a
little bit of a crossover here with the
Epstein stuff that you mentioned earlier
because it's apparent that the some of
the elite, some of our ruling elite are
obsessed with with Bal.
>> Mhm.
>> And Bal was a Canaanite deity, right?
>> And so you have this Canaanitish cult
>> that's still being perpetuated among the
elite. And part of that Canaanadish cult
at least in ancient Canaan was the cult
of giants. So
if you go to the island of Sardinia
today for example you will find
many many megalithic structures that are
still standing. Those are called uh
nurag towers
and they're they're circular stone
towers and they're they're pretty
impressive although they're crude. This
is this is cyclopian architecture which
is large stones fit together without the
use of any binding agent like mortar.
And at the top of these towers, some of
them were over 100 ft tall. And there
were over 30,000 of these things on the
island of Sardinia. Over 30,000. At the
top of some of these towers were
megalithic bassalt stones that were cut.
So you you do have some some more of the
monumental architecture incorporated
into the top of the towers, whereas the
rest of the towers pretty crude, but big
stones nevertheless in the cyclopian
style. But associated with these towers
are what are called the tombs of the
giants. To this day, they're called the
tombs of the giants really on the island
of Sardinia. I visited I've been to
Sardinia a few times and I visited many
of the both the towers and the tombs
and the tombs are configured in the
shape of a womb. Now I used to think
that it was bull's head because of
Molech and Bal and it was clearly a
Canaanitish the the the ancient
culture that they that they attribute
these towers and these tombs to is
called the neurogic people. the neurogic
culture, but the neurologic culture,
it's clear were Canaanitish for sure.
That's that culture was Canaanitish.
Their iconography
uh their we know that the at the very
least we know that the Phoenetians
inhabited that island for some time. And
the Phoenetians were descended from the
Canaanites and had continued on many of
their rights, including according to the
Romans, they sacrificed their children
to Molech.
Uh, and that's part of the reason
ostensibly why they why the Romans
detested them.
>> I didn't know that.
>> So the so these practices, the sacrifice
of children was practiced widely by the
Canaanites and and also by the
Phoenicians. the the Canaanites, the the
the Greeks called the Canaanites
Phoenicians.
>> Mhm.
>> And and so you had the that specifically
the inhabitants of of Ty, Sidon, and
Biblo were Phoenician
and they were Canaanites. So, but then
there were other Canaanite tribes,
right? And in the Old Testament, among
these Canaanites were literal were
literal tribes of giants, clans of
giants, mostly inhabiting the high
country.
>> And these are the giants that Joshua
encountered during the conquest. So, I
think my and I'm going to get back to
the occult thing here. I think that
Joshua
drove out a lot of the giants that
weren't killed in the conquest.
They went they went over the
Mediterranean, across the Mediterranean,
and many of them reestablish themselves
on the island of Sardinia. That's my
guess. That's just uh a conjecture of
mine.
>> Are the tombs extremely large there or
Yes. And I'll get to get back to the
tombs in a sec in a second. So this
migration, this forced migration, this
eviction of giants out of the promised
land documented in the biblical text is
evidenced in the fact that there was a I
forget who recorded this uh one of the
Greek historians that there was in in
Tunisia
there was a column that had a an
inscription and the inscription read,
"We are the Canaanites who fled before
the face of Joshua the son of Nun."
Whoa.
And so the Canaanites obviously were
evicted from the land of Canaan. And I
think they coalesed on the island of
Sardinia.
And so now you have massive megalithic
towers and you have massive megalithic
tombs again to this day known as the
tombs of the giants. And initially as I
said I thought that the
>> could are the tombs for like a 10ft plus
body or
>> Okay. So, I'll describe the tomb and
then I'll and then we'll talk about a
controversy regarding them and and and
and how large they are. So, the tombs
are shaped generally speaking like a
bull's head, right? Like like the
Chicago Bull's logo. Generally speaking,
shaped like a bull's head. So I had
thought initially that because this is a
Canaanitish culture that these these
tombs are shaped in the bull's head
which is a very uh iconic figure among
the Canaanites sometimes representing
Molech or or Bal, right? And and so I
had assumed that that this was the
configuration. I was wrong. The tombs
are actually shaped like wombs.
They're shaped like a uterus,
>> which is if you look at it, like if you
pull it up on on on Google images, it's
shaped like it looks like a bull's head
kind of. So, it's got like the two arms
and then this curved portion on the
bottom. And that's how all the tombs are
shaped in Sardinia. Now, there's two
types of tombs. One of them has a
triilathon entry. Triilithon doorway,
which means it's like megalithic stones
that are stacked like a basically like a
like a doorway, right?
And then the other configuration is a
large megalithic stone that's like a
stellle with a with a little doggy door
in it the bottom just like a little door
that you and I couldn't fit through. But
a young person could like a 12-year-old
or something like 13-year-old could
could squeeze into the hole.
So they're, as I keep saying, I'm not
inventing the word tomb of the giants.
That's what they're called. Since time
immemorial, they were called the tombs
of the giants. And the locals believe
that that giants were buried in them, in
the vicinity of them, or more
importantly beneath them. So the
contention is by armchair archaeologists
that the bodies of giants can't fit in
the tombs. Well, first of all, that
wasn't the purpose of the tomb. The
purpose wasn't to put the body inside.
I'll explain that in a minute. But even
if it were, I went to Sardinia with a
tape measure
and yes, you can fit the bodies of
giants in those tombs.
>> Wow. So even if that was the purpose,
you could fit a 10-ft tall dude in there
and I'm estimating a guy that's, you
know,
>> three times my width, like laying on the
ground. Just imagining something three
times my width, you know, two, three
times my height. Yes, you can. You can.
>> And the locals think that the giants
were buried. There is mythology locals.
>> They're associated with the tombs. Um,
so I learned when I was in Sardinia that
the tombs actually were are configured
the way that they're configured with the
in the shape of a womb
>> with a door, one with a triathon door
that you and I could get into, but we'd
have to stoop down, right? But the other
one, the little door, we could we
couldn't squeeze into it. I learned that
those tombs, it's known to the
archaeological community, were
configured in such a way so that they
could accommodate
what's called the right of incubation or
a right of incubation.
>> What is the right of incubation? It was
a it was a right of passage ceremony. So
when young people were adults and back
then the ancient world, I mean, you were
an adult when you were like 12 years
old, right? 12, 13, 14 years old. you're
you're you're being initiated into
adulthood, getting married at 14, 15, 16
in the ancient world, right? So,
uh they were they were they were the
right of incubation is a right of
passage in which the young person would
squeeze into the either that little
doggy door in the stale the one
configuration or they would be sealed in
with a door with its stone into the
other configuration. Both of them shaped
in the both of them configured in the
shape of the a womb. So what you have is
a gallery inside the tomb. And both of
them it's it's a quite a large gallery
and in in in the uh in the tomb with the
tril triathon doorway you can stand up
and it walk around. They're very large
inside. Um and there's a little bench
built into it and you could see where
maybe you could put some candles or
whatever. And the idea was that the
young person as part of this right of
passage would incubate in the tomb in
order to commune and to absorb the power
the prowess
of the mighty one buried beneath the
tomb.
>> Whoa.
>> Right. So this is like you can think of
this as a maybe
like a resurrection tomb
>> somehow. Oh, were you communicating with
the beings, the dead giants? Their
spirits come.
>> Remember the mythology of the ancient
world, not just the Jews, was that the
spirits of dead giants persisted in the
world as demons.
>> So you could commune with their if you
have their bodies, maybe you can commune
with their reach out to their spirits,
commune with them and be inhabited by
them or just gain information. of that.
Imagine, you know, the gathering
demoniac that we talked about earlier
was so um was so energized, demonically
energized that he that they would chain
him up in the tombs because he would
scream. He was wild. He was uh feral.
And he was so demonically energized that
he would break the chains. So, you're
talking about superhuman strength.
That's pretty useful if you're like a
warrior society, right? You want to feel
some berserkers, some demonpossessed
berserkers. That's a very useful
technology, so to speak, to field on an
ancient battlefield, these
>> demonized berserkers. That's one
possibility that they were trying to to
become
>> um to become infused, inhabited
>> by demonic spirits, but but also maybe
just to commune with the with the mighty
ones who had who had died and gone
before them. But that's they were
incubating and they were sealed in there
for a period of time.
>> It's wild. Have we
>> It gets wilder.
>> Keep going.
How does it get wilder?
>> Do you remember um the Wikileaks emails?
>> Yeah, of course.
>> Remember there was allegedly an email
that was a correspondence with Hillary
Clinton where she was inquiring about
the resurrection tomb and body of
Gilgamesh.
>> That's right. And Gilgamesh was a giant.
>> Yes. So this connects back to the occult
stuff. So what do I think is behind the
cover up of giants? I think the occult
is behind the cover up of giants. the
Epstein type ball worshiping cult who
are literally attempting to either
demonize themselves or others or make
contact with these spirits of dead
giants, harness them, ga gather
information from them. If they come, if
the anti-dolivian world was
technologically advanced, there's a lot
of information, practical, functional
information that you could gain by
interacting with these ancient beings.
>> Yes. Do have we ever found giant bones?
>> Okay, so that gets that that's a that's
a whole conversation in and of itself.
So on the island of Sardinia, again, I
was there three times and I interviewed
a lot of people.
>> Yeah.
>> And I put all this in a film. It was in
one of those True Legends documentaries
that I mentioned earlier that I I
produced with Steve Quail. Um,
I interviewed dozens of people in
Sardinia who who had dug up the bones of
giants themselves with their hands.
>> Wow.
>> And now the common contention here is
that these were the bones of giant
sloths and mastadons and other megapona.
But the problem is that the reason why
the Sardinians at that time, we're
talking about the 30s, the 40s, you
know, 50s, 60s back in that era. The
reason why, and these were all elderly
people I talked to, the reason why they
were actively looking for or if they
were plowing in their field, they would,
you know, be they'd have a horsedrawn
plow at plow at the time. plowing in the
field. They they they kick up a large
some skeletal remains, right, of a
large, let's say forearm and hand,
fingers. The reason why they would they
would would be excited about this is
because oftent times, more often than
not, they would find jewelry
associated with the remains, rings on
the fingers, necklaces,
different pieces of jewelry that were
just jumbled in with the bones or
sometimes still on them. And and I heard
this from a lot of people in Sardinia,
the elderly people who still remember
it. And I interviewed a couple of
gentlemen
who excavated at the site called
Anastasia at the at the church of
Anastasia, a Catholic little Catholic
church. And the church was planted on
top of a of a of a neurogic
archaeological site.
And they decided to do an excavation of
the site. And these individuals
excavated, I'm probably going to get the
dates wrong here. I want to say one of
them excavated from like 78 to 79 and
then the other one excavated from like
80 to 81 in that range, right? They both
excavated at the same site and they both
I interviewed them separately and they
both told me the same story. They were
hired by the municipality
to go in to go to the grounds of the
church of Anastasia and start to remove
systematically
uh take apart the ruins and remove the
artifacts and and both of them the uh
the procedure was all of the artifacts
that came out of the site went into the
church. They put tables they set up
tables in the church. I went to the
church of Santastasia and it's just this
little chapel and they put tables they
set tables up inside the church and then
they would take the artifacts all kinds
of artifacts gold and silver and all
kinds of artifacts and goblets and
plates and jewelry
and the bones of giants would come out
of the the site and they would put them
in the in the church. They found entire
skeletons of giants.
>> What?
>> Entire skeletons. both of them
independently. And I I could give you
just a ton of examples here, but I
remember one there's a couple of
examples that jump out. Uh in one day of
working, one of these gentlemen found
three they found three skeletons of a
giant, you know, they they reassembled
it. They they they they they uh
extracted the pieces and parts and then
they re they reassembled it in the they
were told to to to lay out the bones
next to the church as opposed to in
usually everything went inside the
church but in this particular case he
laid out three skeletal remains of
giants and he said so the procedure was
I know I'm sort of tying this in a in a
in a confusing knot here but the
procedure was the artifacts go in the
church and then overnight somebody came
to take them all away and then when they
would come back in the morning,
everything's gone and they would just
that was how they proceeded. But on this
occasion, this guy was told to lay these
bodies out in the next to the church in
the yard. So he laid them out, three
bodies. They were at least 9 ft tall
each.
Next day, they were gone. In another
occasion,
>> who takes these? Well, that individual
told me that he knows that that some of
those artifacts were were recovered were
um
were retrieved by
certain individuals who were associated
with the University of Kajetti, the
capital city in Sardinia. It's called
Kajedi. The University of Kajetti. He
knows that there was some certain
professors or somebody associated. He
told me the name who who communicated
with him about what to do with some of
these artifacts including the bodies of
giants.
>> You contact that professor?
>> Uh I couldn't find him. So then the
other individual
the other individual um he he told me
there's dozens of stories from both of
these guys. He told me that he was
excavating one day and he had his wife
with him and they found a skull that was
so big and he said the vertebrae was
still attached to part of it cuz these
were very well preserved. When I say
skeletal remains, I'm not talking about
bleach bones. I'm talking about like
bodies that are really well preserved.
Not not like not exactly like mummies,
but like some of them have senue. Some
of them still have like they're not just
skeletons. And he said this this he he
he unearthed this gigantic skull. It was
so large that he and his wife had to
carry it together and they brought it
into the church. Then he said there was
another day he was I'm just skipping
over a bunch of other ones by the way,
but he said he was excavating in at the
site and and they were excavating a new
a one of those towers, one of those
Nuraga towers and he
uh they they unsealed a chamber like it
was it it was almost like hermetically
sealed because what it looks like had
happened to these towers is they were
suddenly submer they were suddenly
covered in earth almost like a tidal
wave had swept across the island and
deposited all of this all of this soil
over the towers and buried them.
>> Wow.
>> And in fact, that's true because um I
saw I saw so keep in mind some of these
towers are are very tall. Some of them
are up to 100 feet, but they've since
crumbled, right? But they're still
pretty tall. And if you look at the the
towers before they were discovered, they
just look like hills. They just look
like hills of dirt, right? And then they
dig into them and it's one of these
towers and they're all over the place
still out there. All over the place.
What
>> does anybody have photos or video of the
bones or
>> so? No. So, keep in mind this is back in
the late '7s, early 80s.
>> Yeah.
>> And they were told not to take any
pictures and never to talk about it.
>> Again, two individuals.
>> How many of these witnesses came out in
your documentary? Well, this particular
case, too, but of other cases, dozens.
>> Okay. Wow.
>> And so they unsealed this one, this this
tower that was buried. Remember, let's
say this thing is buried suddenly,
right? Let's say you've got somebody
living inside of this thing. Tidal wave
hits, carries a mountain of of soot,
dirt, deposits it suddenly over one of
these towers, hermetically sealed.
>> Yeah.
>> So, whatever's in this thing is sealed
inside, right? and going to be well
preserved. So, um he they opened up one
of these chambers and he said he walked
they walked into the chamber with
flashlights and there was a giant seated
at a table and he was dead.
>> What?
>> And he was just slumped over
and and he they said that at there the
everything was gigantic. He said the
table was gigantic. There was a gigantic
plate and goblet on the table and the
plate still had like oysters on it.
What? Yeah. And the giant had been
eating oysters and there's a giant
goblet on the table and probably 9, 10,
11t tall, maybe 12 feet tall. I
somewhere in that range as most of these
giants are in that range between
>> between 9 and 12t.
>> Would the flesh have decayed by that?
>> I think it did start to decay
immediately as soon as they like it
started to crumble.
>> So it was like somehow sealed from
oxygen. It was hermetically sealed.
>> The thing was just buried suddenly.
>> [ __ ] So, at least this is what they
said, you know, this is what they're
telling me. So, um, and I didn't pay
these guys or anything like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Nothing like that. So, they they they
took the body of this giant, they
carried it out together and laid it in
the church.
>> Wow.
>> It was very very well preserved. And
then they took the goblet and the plate.
And I mean they found all they found
earrings, they found all kinds of
things, jewelry, all kinds of stuff at
this one site
>> in Santastasia
in Sardinia.
Apart from that, I interviewed lots of
other people who found the remains of
giants all over the place in the
countryside.
>> Wow.
>> One guy said that um
>> do you think we'll get concrete evidence
of this in our lifetime?
>> I don't know. I don't know. This one guy
said
>> because if if this is this prevalent, I
would expect that and I would hope that
we do.
>> Well, like I said, I think the occults
at the center of this thing, so I'm not
sure,
>> right?
>> Um, but
>> it's the same thing with the UFO stuff
where it's like it always disappear.
Always slips through your fingers.
>> Are these Bale worshiing pedophiles ever
going to go to jail,
>> right? Yeah.
>> So,
>> yeah. Yeah. No one apparently visited
the island for everyone was on the
emails but no one actually or
>> if I see a bunch of pedos go to jail and
I'll have more hope that we're going to
learn the truth about giants.
>> Yeah.
>> So just to give you one more
illustration here I talked to a guy
who's 101 years old
>> when I interviewed him.
>> He was still very spry very uh spunky
funny guy.
>> It's a blue zone there right? There's a
like centinarian.
>> Yes. This is this this is some of the
longest lived people in the world. The
island of Sardinia. So he told us
>> maybe it's the giant DNA.
>> Maybe it is. Well, they actually they
say some of them that they were
descended from giants.
>> Whoa.
>> And and on the island of Sardinia, you
do have an unusual uh po portion of the
population with red hair.
>> Uh so
which seems to be a trademark of of
these Nephilimic tribes. So
>> and and didn't Cananan literally had red
hair, I believe, right?
>> Who
>> was it? Uh or maybe it was uh Esau had
red hair. Esau Esau was like a hairy
ape. Red hair ape. Exactly.
>> So um
>> and that's not related to this.
>> It is kind of
>> kind of so but just to give you another
illustration here. I talked to this guy
101 years old. Can't remember his name.
>> It just came into my head and then and
then departed. But
>> it was a lot of fun talking to him. And
of course I had a translator with me,
Anna Tuary. So Anna, if you're watching,
shout out to Anna Tu. Shout out Anna.
>> She was born in Rome, a native Italian
speaker. Actually, I believe some of her
family was from Sardinia.
>> Oh, wow.
>> And so, she was with me as my transl
translator and we interviewed this
gentleman and he uh he told us some wild
stories. One of the stories he told me
was one time he was working in a field
when he was a young man. So, this was I
mean he's 101 years old. I don't know
what what year that would have been. He
told us I can't remember. Uh I think it
was like 1920s, 1930s, something like
that. and and he's working in this field
because this the owner of the field
wanted to plant a vineyard. So, they
were tilling, getting ready to plant a
vineyard. And this field was in the
vicinity of one of those towers, right?
One of those Nurogi towers and they're
plowing and as there's a bunch of guys
out there and they're they're they're
tearing up the the soil and suddenly
they start unearthing the the the
remains of gigantic people. And he said
they were all starting to shout to each
other in a big commotion because they
were all sort of simultaneously starting
to unearthe like this graveyard. And he
said all of the bodies were positioned
like this 2 by two in a cross
configuration. So like that all the
bodies and there were dozens of them.
And he said they were gigantic. So when
people say that in Sardinia they mean 9
10 11 12 feet
>> and they were clearly humans that had
been buried there intentionally. There's
a graveyard. And as they're digging this
up, the owner of the field says, "Stop.
Stop. Stop. I got to call this in. Got
to call the corner or whatever." And so
he made a phone call to whoever the
university, I don't know who he called.
And then he came back and he said,
"Everybody has to vacate this area. We
all have to leave." He said, "I've been
told they're going to come get the
remains. They want us out of here, so we
have to go." Well, uh, this gentleman I
was interviewing, he's very funny. He
said, He said, 'Well, I really needed
the money and I wanted to make this guy
pay me a day's wage, not a half a day's
wage. So, I stayed. He said, 'I'm my
plan was to just stay and work and then
say, 'Hey, I just stayed. I worked the
whole day, so so you get a day's wage.
And but what happened was as he's in the
midst of working by himself now, right?
He said these vans pulled up, bunch of
vans pulled up and people started these
people started getting out of the vans
with with equipment and he hid. He went
and hid himself like in the in the
bushes or something. And he watched them
come out of the vans, take pictures of
all of the the the remains that were in
a cross configuration, gather up all the
remains, load them into the vans. Then
he said they went into the tower
and they were examining the tower,
taking pictures of the tower, and he
said there was like this in that tower
there was like um some kind of like a
passageway that went down and maybe was
obstructed. They sealed it up. I think
he said they they put some stuff and
cemented over it and then they left.
>> So strange.
>> I mean these are the kind of stories I
heard one after another.
>> And don't you also have a story of being
at a function. you see this kind of high
up air force officer and you mention the
Kandahar
2003 or 2005 kind of giant in you know
confrontation and then what was his wife
says like he's not supposed to talk
about this
>> I don't want to
>> I got to be really careful with that
story cuz that that I don't want to get
that guy in trouble but yeah let's just
put it this way I'm going to be very
vague I've had interactions
>> with people where we could talk about
like UFOs on the ground bases and
they'll whisper, you know, and tell you
a little bit of what they know. But when
you bring up giants, one of them
literally went like this to me,
pointed to his phone.
>> What?
>> Like,
>> that's crazy.
>> And um and and then I had a friend of
mine who uh I told him I I told him some
of these stories, right? And um he said
uh
he said that he was with a friend of his
who happened to be and I got to be
careful here too, but he was with let's
let let me be very vague. Uh he was with
I don't want to get anybody in trouble.
>> Sure.
>> I talk a lot and I got to make sure I'm
>> I'm not saying burn any sources.
>> So um
he was with this individual who's
associated with the the government with
somebody from the government
>> and they're just having a casual
conversation. and he said uh uh they're
really good friends having this casual
conversation and and he had just been
with me. This guy the this the my my
friend who's talking to his government
buddy. He had just been with me and I
we're talking like we're talking right
now. We were talking like we're talking
right now and and and and he because he
was like whoa that's crazy. I can't
believe that. I was like well listen man
bring it up. See what happens. Bring
this topic up to people who you think
might know something. Watch what
happens. So he did. He brought it up
with this individual and he said he he
asked him he said hey do you know
anything about like this Kandahar giant
thing and he said this person who's his
friend just totally switched
>> and said I'm trying to think what he
told him he said something like um
what the hell are you getting yourself
into
what are what are you getting what are
you getting yourself into
>> you need to be careful
>> you need to be careful
like just turn just just casual fun
conversation just turned into like this
very serious warning. I don't know what
you're getting yourself into, but you
need to be careful is what he was. So
then he called me
>> and he told me, "Dude, I he said he
said, "Man, I I didn't know what to
think after you talked to me, but man, I
I brought this up and just like you
said, he changed on a dime and warned
me." So, you know, I have a lot of
little anecdotal things like that,
>> you know, and people accuse me all the
time of, you know, the trust me, bro
stuff. I get it. Look, these are
stories, okay?
>> Well, I, you know, I'll I'll hit you
with the story of mine, which is before
we even met and, you know, maybe I was
vaguely aware of your work, but this was
years ago. I had a friend who's kind of
uh, you know, prominent and like or
semi-prominent on like Twitter and like
tech circles and stuff. He's like not
into any of this like ancient
civilization UFO stuff really. I mean
like maybe is somewhat partial to it now
but like is you know has been dragged
into it by the fact that the narrative
has changed so much in the last five six
years and uh we're at like a conference
or something and he's telling me about
uh his buddy who is special forces and
he's like you got to you know um you
come to New York get dinner with me and
uh this guy uh he's special forces and
he claims to have or his troop or
whatever is you know um the core he was
with claims to have fought this giant in
in in the caves of Afghanistan. And so
this was like totally independent of
anything having to do with you.
>> And uh and so I have to do that cuz
honestly at the time I was like that's
ins I was like I mean I was at the time
>> you know UFO stuff was so still like
kind of integrating in my mind and I was
like this is this is really crazy like
what the hell. But uh so another
independent source.
>> Yeah. And I don't know. I'm pretty sure
I could be wrong about this, but I'm
pretty sure
>> that I saw something that looked like an
official like press release from the
Pentagon saying the Kandahar giant story
is not true.
>> Like,
>> oh, that's funny. I Yeah, it seems like
they've gone
>> uh they they've explicitly wanted the
public to know that this story isn't
true. So again, why all the secrecy?
Like what's the big deal? So, giants
existed. You know, we know that giants
existed in America. The Native Americans
had the had the legends of the
red-haired giants
>> and
the, as I said earlier, their bones were
being discovered on record.
>> Yeah.
>> In the Smithsonian Institution's own
annual reports. You have you have
evidence of of very unusual skeletal
remains, many of which were very large
uh which which were were the remains of
giants. And where did those go?
>> Yeah.
>> Where did those go? You have you have uh
Abraham Lincoln who's waxing poetically
about Niagara Falls in a speech in which
he says, "The eyes of that ancient
species of giants whose bones fill the
mounds of America have gazed upon
Niagara as ours do." Now,
>> that's wild.
>> Abraham Lincoln. So, is he referencing
some something that nobody would
understand what he's saying? Of course
not. He's referencing something that
everybody knew to be true. the the bones
of that ancient species of giants whose
whose or or the eyes of that ancient
species of giants whose bones fill the
mounds of America.
>> So,
uh it's it is bizarre. It is bizarre
when you can talk to guys about UFOs all
day long, you know, government types,
but they won't say a thing about giants.
>> Yeah. Not only will they not say a
thing, they freak out.
>> They get visibly, you know, concerned.
>> Yep. It's so strange.
>> Again, I would I would say that there's
something uh if I can use the term
epsteinian
epinian
>> about this whole thing with the giants
in the ball in the in the in the occult.
>> Well, yeah, that's that I mean one of
the deeper thread on the Epstein stuff.
It's like why is he showing up in emails
saying I killed pawns from pawns in
Flehman like cold fusion which is clean
limitless energy. M he's saying he, you
know, Robert Maxwell, Galain's, you
know, uh, super spy father who was, you
know,
>> buried on the Mount of Olives, I
believe.
>> Interesting. Well, there you go. Yeah.
MI6, MSAD, uh, you know, all these
basically like helped invent peer
review, scientific peer review, was also
in charge of Nazi tech transfer, which
is really, I think, an important fact.
And then you have Epstein telling Bannon
in an interview that he moved Zoro Ranch
to where it was or he moved to Zora
Ranch because it was near retiring Los
Alamos physicists and then he's kill
he's showing up and he's says he's
killing cold fusion and he's obsessed
with anti-gravity. So you end up like
with the bones of the giants or with
UFOs or with all these things because
you end up with really like this weird
like there's almost like a cult of
science like an like a uh cuz there's so
much circumstantial evidence. There's so
much and then there's very little
concrete evidence in the way of like
really good high-res photography. And
then there's always some muddling of the
good, you know, when there is good
evidence. We talked about photographs
that have negatives. We talked about
videos. talked about implants, we've
talked about material, like there are
all these things, but there's always a
muddying of the water. So, you get into
this really weird onlogical territory
where there is literally a faction
uh on Earth that wants to hide uh
breakthrough technology and wants to
hide breakthroughs as far as our own
ancient discovery, you know, like
understanding our past and wants to keep
us in this state of amnesia. Are these
the adepts of the mystery schools?
>> Maybe. Maybe.
>> I don't know. I don't know the answer.
>> I don't know. But there's a lot of weird
symbology on Epstein's
>> not coincidental that that ball comes
up. Canaanite I mean the the Canaanite
god
the as I said the cover up of giants
crossover with the UFO stuff. Then you
throw into the mix the just the the rank
occultists like Ellis to Crowley and
Jack Parsons and
>> Right. And and Crowley's another guy who
had an alien being sort of seemed to
show up and
>> Yeah. The lamb thing.
>> Lamb thing. Yeah.
>> He conjured. Yeah. So there's a lot of
crossover here with
>> Is any of that cuz like you know mostly
I associate the occult with like
left-hand path pursuit of power via
paranormal channels in a way that is a
Fouian bargain and kind of blows up in
your face if you do it. But maybe it
confers power for a temporary period of
time. And then I also think of like the
founding fathers of America all being
Freemasons and like I'm interested in
the Templar. I think they're
interesting. You know, I don't think
this is all like I I often find myself
caught between the people who are like
it's all demonic and then these other
people who are like, you know, uh
obsessed with it for very dark reason.
>> There's I'm sure that within within some
of these like for example, Freemasons is
a great example.
Uh most Freemasons, certainly the ones
that I know
>> Yeah.
>> are just good old boys. They don't know
nothing about anything really.
>> That's I mean now if you're a Freemason,
you don't know [ __ ] Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So maybe back then I'm sure
it was much more intense, you know. I
think Francis Bacon who was who was who
was the author of the colonization
scheme.
>> Ah I didn't know that.
>> Yeah. And um
>> he knew some stuff. You read like the
New Atlantis.
>> He was I think he was a Rosacrushian.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think he was a a acolyte of John
D,
>> right? the the famous magician at
Elizabeth's Elizabeth's court
>> who was definitely Rosa
>> so I think that yeah you definitely have
occult activity you have you have
certain acolytes in the occult who are
very serious and who know things and who
have uh very devious dark aims then you
have other people who are involved for
other reasons
>> fraternities you know it was popular to
be a member of some kind of fraternity
back then because you know you didn't
have cell phones an internet and so if
you're going to if you're going to
network with people you did it in in a
fraternity a lot of times or you did it
in like a church
>> and some people think that Jesus himself
was part of the so there's a Martin
Luther King Jr. actually wrote a book or
sorry an essay called the pagan
continuity hypothesis. And then you have
people like Brian Morescu who writes,
you know, the immortality key and Elaine
Paggels, this Princeton religious
studies professor. And a lot of these
people sort of hint at the idea that the
Last Supper was itself a mystery ritual
that had some, you know, continuity
between the Lucinian mystery rituals and
whatever he underwent. I have no idea if
that's true. Yeah, I I personally would
reject any notion that Jesus was a was
an mystery mystery school adept or went
to India to learn from the from the
gurus or whatever. You know, there's
lots of things people say, but
>> but do you think he had secret
teachings?
>> I think he was I would say that Jesus is
exactly who he claimed to be.
>> He was the Messiah, the son of God.
>> That's what I would say. um in that he
differed from all of these other masters
and gurus in that uh he was endowed by
the Holy Spirit to do what he did and he
rose from the grave
>> which which distinguishes Jesus of
Nazareth from everyone else.
>> So I would say as a Christian I believe
that Jesus was the Messiah, the son of
God literally.
>> All this stuff around him have you know
you needing to have ears to hear and
having disciples and stuff. Okay.
>> Initiates of something.
>> It is very interesting that Jesus so
here you have according to the authors
of the New Testament Jesus is he's the
son of God and he is he is the creator
that it's um Colossians 1:15-17
which reads he the son of God Jesus he
is the image of the invisible God the
firstborn over all creation. For by him
all things were created that are in
heaven and that are on earth visible and
invisible whether thrones or dominions
or principalities or powers. All things
were created through him and for him and
in him all things consist. In fact, I
missed the other part. And he is before
all things and in him all things
consist. So uh that is a very unique I
mean this the the person of Christ to
the to the apostles was not just the
great teacher. He was he's the
singularity. All things were created
through him and for him and he is before
all things and in him all things
consist. And this was the this is what
the apostles believed about Christ and
and Jesus. So here you have the the
author of creation
who is walking among men and he could
have taught us about anything. He could
have instructed us in the in in
electromagnetism, electricity. I mean,
you know, the the Jews were were were
under the dominion of the Romans. Jesus
could have conferred information to
them,
uh upgraded their their their military
technology, right? given them
information, electricity and so forth
that would have allowed them to easily
dominate not just the Romans but the
entire world, right? He could have
instantly upgraded their their their
civilization. He didn't do that. In
contrast to those gods who descended in
the days of Jared, Jesus spoke in
parables and he taught the people like
they were little kids and and he he what
what he his message was about the
kingdom of heaven and and everything
that he did was a demonstration that he
was precisely who he said he was, namely
the son of God. And so I look at that
and it's remarkable to me because the
message of Christ was was was the the
gospel of Christ is about as I referred
to earlier
is about redeeming the sons and
daughters of Adam and reconciling them
back to the father. That's why the cross
of Christ brings reconciliation
so that we can go back into the family.
That's what he was about.
He could have taught all all manner of
secret knowledge and instead he taught
us about the kingdom of heaven and about
his father and and the way to go back uh
to be reconciled to the father which was
through him. So I separate Christ from
all of these other you know I don't
believe that that Jesus was a mystery
school adept. I think that in fact his
message was in direct contradiction
>> to the the knowledge of the watchers to
the knowledge of the gods that was
>> delivered to mankind.
>> The people that like to lump him in with
the mystery schools also say he hung out
with the Essenes or whatever at the
time.
>> All of this is of course conjecture.
>> Yeah, of course. Um, you know, we know
that Jesus that they fled to Egypt and
he was in Egypt for a while and they
came back and that that Jesus was
growing up with his parents arguing with
the teachers of the law in the synagogue
and so forth. So, um, yeah, I would
ascribe to rather I would not I don't
personally subscribe to any of those
alternative ideas about Christ. Um,
I believe Jesus is precisely who he said
he was. And do you think you know with
respect to you know this idea of the
watchers and the nephilim he's of a
totally different variety. He is just
the the son of God. Yes. So, yes, you
know, so much of what what was happening
in in the life and ministry of Jesus of
Nazareth was really kind of undoing what
had been done the the by the watchers
and and and reclaiming
uh and and and
reestablishing the kingdom of God.
>> And so there's a there's a great book
called Reversing Hermon by the late
scholar Michael Heiser. He also write a
great another great book called um the
unseen realm which is a which is a
really really I think uh critical
scholarly uh dissertation on the life
and ministry of Jesus as it relates to
the things we were talking about earlier
on the watchers and everything that they
had done.
>> Heiser also really corroborates the
nephilim idea is like a real historical
thing. Yes.
>> And he's a guy who sort of throws pours
cold water on the Zachariah Sitchin kind
of
>> Yeah. He had a website called Sitchin is
wrong. I think it was sitchinis
wrong.com.
>> The whole Yeah.
>> in which he he demonstrates how a lot of
Sitchin's interpretations of the
cylinder seals were were
not very good.
>> So another point in favor of giants as a
biblical scholar who's pretty serious in
debunking other people who are you know
considered more quacky or whatever seems
to corroborate the giants there.
>> Yeah. I mean, Heiser would have affirmed
and did that the the Anakian tale that
we talked about earlier that that idea
the idea of the gods, the watchers
descending to the earth and populating
with human wind and progenerating that
hybrid race of giants that that formed
the the the
substrate of human rather of Hebrew
cosmology that that was part and parcel
to
>> the historical narrative of of the
Hebrews when they look back into the
anti-olivian world. Um there's a lot of
other scholars too who acknowledge that.
Most scholars acknowledge that for sure
>> today. So it's um
but what I was saying earlier was you
know
to kind of circle back to the beginning.
We were talking about sort of this this
larger biblical context into which you
can accommodate the UFO phenomenon
reminding us of um uh Anna Paulina's
words you know look at the book of Enoch
if you want to understand the
phenomenon. She references that in the
context of interdimensional beings. I
don't know whether or not these were
inter interdimensional
really means
>> that's hilarious when people say oh it's
interdimen or they say oh it's spiritual
it's like and then you ask them one
followup question it means nothing. It
means it means movie reference usually
what it boils down to
>> or it means it's a their political pmmic
on what it is. So often if somebody says
it's spiritual they're kind of saying
it's demonic.
>> Yes.
>> And you hear this with certain Christian
podcasters some of whom I'm a huge fan
of. But they'll say they'll use this
line. They'll say I think it's
spiritual. I think it's kind of dark.
And then they won't like they won't
touch it. And it's like okay fine but
like what is an angel? What is a demon?
Like we should try to investigate this.
>> Exactly. So if you're going to invoke an
if you're going to invoke
interdimensionality for example, as you
I'm sure well know, there isn't like one
theory in physics that describes extra
dimensions. There's a suite of theories
>> and they're not the same. You know, you
you have like multiverse which is a you
know different universes with different
physical properties, right?
>> So in the multiverse you have just this
endless
>> infinite wave function never collapses.
>> Yeah. like the bubbles in a in a in a in
a glass of beer constantly you knew
universes be being created and each
universe in multiverse
>> has different physical properties and
the reason why multiverse came into
existence is because phys physicists I
think finally realized that you can't
get around a creator like an intelligent
creator of the universe and so the to
circumvent that idea they they created
the multiverse theory which is just like
random spontaneous universal are going
are being created all the time because
our universe is finally tuned. Clearly,
our universe is finally tuned. I mean,
it is precisely tuned. And if any one of
the any one of the these constituents of
our universe was not exactly the way it
is, you couldn't have life.
>> Yeah. The anthropic principle.
>> The anthrop the anthropic principle. So,
the universe is clearly finely tuned for
life. And that points very clearly to a
creator and a purpose for the universe.
And so to circumvent that, you just make
it so the un the universe just happens
to have these qualities because
universes are being there's a multitude
of universe of universes being created
all the time. There's an infinite number
of universes and so it's just like
rolling the dice and we happen to live
in the one gold
>> just the Goldilocks universe where
everything is so finely tuned. That was
a circumvention of the reality that the
universe had a beginning and it was
finely tuned so that it could support
life and be the way it is. And so
multiverse is each one of these
universes and multiverse has different
physical properties, right? And so what
you see like there's multiverse and then
there's string theory super string
theory which super string theory posits
that there's 11 there's 11 dimensions
right and there's different aspects of
string theory that posit more but
there's at least 11 dimensions but but
those are like inaccessible dimensions
those are like um subatomic dimensions
and and those dimensions don't give you
access to another universe like
multiverse they just open It opens up
another facet of this universe, right?
And then you have the hyperspaceial
theory of the universe which is actually
quite similar to that. You have the um
alternative worlds theory. These are all
different scientific theories. So what
people do is they they just say
interdimensional and they invoke them
all like a hodgepodge. And what they're
doing is they're invoking a Marvel
movie.
>> Yeah.
>> So and this is why when people say well
I think it's interdimensional just like
you. My follow-up question is, what does
that mean?
>> Yeah.
>> Where are they coming from? Yeah.
>> Right. Because you can have, let's say,
a portal open up in the sky and saucers
fly out of it like what my friend saw.
My my friend saw this actually happen
and then a portal closes, right? And
when a portal was open, he could see a
different atmosphere on the other side
inside of the portal. Well, okay. So,
let's assume that story is true. And if
we analyze this, we can say, okay, this
is a portal. What's on the other side?
Is it a different universe? Is it like
some sort of different multiverse? Or is
it a different part of planet Earth? Or
is it a different planet? Right? And and
then so it doesn't mean what I'm trying
to say is just because you see a portal
open up in the sky and flying saucers
come out of it doesn't mean that those
saucers are interdimensional or are by
nature interdimensional. It doesn't it
doesn't follow that those are
interdimensional beings. In fact, there
are there it's just as likely, if not
more likely, that what you're witnessing
is what's called an Einstein Rosen
Bridge, and it's connecting two parts of
either somewhere on the earth or in the
known universe or in our universe
rather. And so what you're getting is
vehicles that are coming from some other
part of the universe or some other part
of the earth or the inner earth or
something like that. It doesn't it
doesn't necessarily lend itself to
interdimensionality. And I think there's
a lot of confusion there. I really do.
Yeah,
>> I'm not against interdimensionality. I
just don't think it no and nobody really
can define it properly.
>> Yeah, I agree. No, it's uh there when
they say interdimensional, they just
mean it's not extraterrestrial.
>> Exactly.
>> It's not based on any sort of physics or
anything.
>> So, let me ask you, I wanted to ask you
what So, based on all of your
>> research, everybody you've interviewed,
everything you know about this
phenomenon.
>> Yeah.
>> What do you think is the most likely? I
know you're probably not going to want
to commit to anything, but what do you
think is the most likely explan
explanation based on all the crash
retrieval material based based on the
the clear nuts and bolts physicality of
at least part of this phenomenon?
>> Yes.
>> Based on all of the testimonies that
you've heard personally,
>> I struggle. I can I can give you like
very viable
local theories around anti-gravity and
propulsion and then maybe even an
interesting sort of physics theory as to
like who the beings are, where they're
from. I think there are multiple
phenomena at play. So here's here's or
would be my sort of more multiaceted
very speculative weakly held answer
there. I think there is some
anti-dolivian
remnants that are that have survived
some sort of cataclysm and exist in
underwater bases specifically oceans. Uh
>> which faction are you referencing here?
>> Uh
>> when you think about that, who are you
thinking about?
>> It could be. I mean, you're now kind of
updating my thought process on this
maybe being, you know, fallen angels. I
don't know.
>> But are you seeing in your head like
Nordics? Are you seeing gray aliens?
>> Oh, I see. As far as Yeah. the survivors
looking
>> the what the beings look like? I don't
know. I don't know what I mean
>> it's tricky.
>> Okay. So, would you agree based on your
uh based on your research
>> that the three factions that are
commonly cited are real, namely
>> Nordics, reptilians, and
>> the grays, including the insect, the
mantis beings is the gray aliens. I
>> I think they're all real. And then where
it gets so confusing is like you have
cases like Travis Walton where they're
working together in conjunction.
>> Yes. And and other cases like that in
the abduction material.
>> There you go. So I if I had to guess I
think usually in the abductions like the
tall grays are overseeing the small
grays and then um the Nordics are sort
of they seem like even higher on the the
the pecking order. Yeah. And so the
Nordics somehow seem like really I don't
know somehow important as far as how the
hierarchy works. And then mantids also
feel above just the grays. I don't know
how the Nordics and the mantids would
relate to each other but uh yeah what
would you
>> It's very intriguing. I think it's it's
apparent that the that the the mantids
the insectilins as as Jacobs denominates
them are clearly in charge of the grays.
like they are definitely in charge of
the little grays.
>> Um so they're managing the abduction
program I would say at least on some
level. Maybe there's somebody above
them, right? But they're definitely
managing like the procedures and the
grays.
>> Yeah,
>> that seems to be apparent to me. Um
>> here's an interesting anecdote. So, in
in Carla Turner's book, um, Taken,
>> yeah,
>> she features the abduction stories of a
number of women. And one of these ladies
after being abducted by Grace was
abducted, suffered a endured a
myabduction. She was taken forcibly from
her house by military personnel. She's
brought onto a base and it was a very
violent episode. and she remembers
seeing I I hope I'm getting this right.
She remembers seeing Nordics on the base
and she had an interaction with one like
she was laying in a bed. Sometimes they
were like the the the the scientists and
the human scientists were extracting the
the the implants and stuff and
interrogating her and trying to figure
out what the grays were doing. It was
always about trying to figure out what
the grays were doing. But then she had
this there's this weird story with one
of these women where
there was a Nordic. She was interacting
with a Nordic on one of these bases and
she asked the Nordic if they were
involved with the grace and the reply of
the Nordic was by degrees.
That was his reply.
>> What does that mean?
>> I don't know. But uh so and this is
interesting you're bringing this up
because this would also be my mental
model on the sort of these covert space
initiatives involving you know legacy
reverse engineering programs is that
we're actually working in conjunction
with the beings themselves. And that
story you just told is one of a variety
yes of of the beings being on these
bases. And if you think about it's so
strange it's like you have MK Ultra, you
have exotic propulsion, you have free,
you have all these things where it seems
like there's a confluence or convergence
of like um just human science
initiatives and then the the people at
the forefront of all those initiatives
start to communicate with aliens or get
into weird alien like the the inventors
of the radio. So Tesla and Maronei
claimed alien communication. Puharic who
was like the pioneer of MK Ultra was
Herman Oberth was saying that rocketry
was inspire was you know von Braun was
inspired by the beings and Oberth gives
a whole lecture on UFOs. So you have
people who are pioneers of these scient
specifically science which is the
forefront of human knowledge and so
again going back to the kind of fallen
angel the rebel angel which gives the
knowledge to the so that these people
who are at the front of all of those
things seem to be interfacing Thomas
Towns and Brown you could think of his
anti-gravity stuff as an explanation
away from the extraterrestrial
hypothesis and then you get into his the
details of his life and he's had you
literally Close Encounters of the Third
Kind. He says he's communicating with
space brothers. And so that's as you
know, as deep as you go, it's it's like
the three body problem. It's this
Chinese science fiction novel where they
the interface between the people who are
stealing fire from the gods, you know,
these Prometheian, you know, figures,
these kind of Oenheimer style figures.
They seem to be interfacing with these
beings most. And so that seems
significant. And then the nuclear thing
seems significant because the nuclear
thing is kind of the Archimedes lever
both for cataclysm but also nuclear is
if you take Fineman's like the room at
the bottom thing. You know the fact that
we're splitting an atom um seems somehow
really important for our root access to
reality itself. There's probably an
ambient I mean there is the Schuman
resonance ambient electromagnetic
radiation that helps life grow. And so
like interfering with that they would
obviously you know interfere with us
interfering with that right
>> and so there are all these things that I
you know I have feel like I have a good
grasp of there and then
>> on the I don't know how the beings and
how they work together and then which
you know it's like when people um
commune with God and do these sort of
cobbalistic protocols of which C5 is a
variation and I'm not the biggest career
fan but like you know I do think there's
actually something to the phenomen
contact with something.
>> Somebody's making contact with
something. And I don't know if that's
that's probably not the same thing as
what's showing up at our nuclear site.
Is that the same thing as what's showing
up, you know, in under the oceans? Like
all of these might be different things.
I don't know.
>> Have you Have you had discussions with
any of the psionic assets?
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I've
talked to some of those guys and
um I wondered with the psionic stuff, I
wondered if there was a connection
between these psionic assets and alien
abduction. And the reason why I wonder
that is because one thing that seems
apparent is abductees
are are
continually interlaced with the
phenomenon. In other words, the grays
know their thoughts even from a
distance. And and a good illustration of
this is there's been women who uh have
had a a a you know have had a zygote
implanted. It's grown into a fetus in
their womb and they realize that they're
pregnant. They go to their gynecologist.
They realize that they're pregnant. You
know what's crazy is that sometimes
these women are virgins
and um but the the pregnancy is
confirmed and and they contemplate an
abortion, just contemplate an abortion
or they're talking on the phone to
somebody about it. The grays come and
get the fetus.
They come and get it. And so the woman
will go in for the abortion and they'll
do the ultrasound or whatever before
gone. This is the missing fetus syndrome
gone. Why? Because the grays took it
because they didn't want the they didn't
want the fetus to be retrieved by the
doctor or aborted. So, they came and got
it. They reabducted her and they took it
out.
Um, and there's other such stories that
I think indicate that perhaps through
the implants, but also because the grays
are are potently telepathic that there's
there's an there's a connection
established between the gray and the
abductee. M
>> so if you are this is just my theory and
by the way I I posited this theory to
some of the psionics guys
>> said so I if you are an abductee
and you you're signaling something
you're broadcasting maybe because you
know you're implanted
or just telepathically whatever brain
waves you're broadcasting something this
is the way I like to think of this I
have a friend who
uh was a rancher in a in Australia and
it was, you know, always really hot and
he had all his cattle out there. So, he
didn't ever really want to get up. He'd
sit there in his tidy whies and on his
computer and he didn't want to get up
and go see if there was a problem with
his cows. He'd hear like he'd hear some
commotion out there and he and he could
see him on video. And so rather than
getting up and going out there, he would
he had a drone. He'd just put his drone
up in the air and he'd fly his drone
over there and kind of check out what's
going on. Did one of them get bit by a
snake or something? Right. So he didn't
have to get up and go out there. I
almost wonder if that's what's going on
with some of these psionic people.
They're broadcasting something and then
an automated response. Yeah.
>> Shows up like orbs often will show up uh
or sometimes craft sometimes they can
get the craft to land. Uh I almost
wonder is because they're intrinsically
interl interlace with the phenomenon if
it's almost like just sending out a
broadcast and it the automated response
comes kind of just like the drone
checking on the cattle.
>> No, it that would make sense. It really
would because if you look at like you
know Skywatcher which seemed like this
>> Jake Barber.
>> Yeah, exactly. almost externalization of
what was happening on the inside and
maybe it got botched somewhat and I
don't know what ended up happening with
it but
it was that you had this mechanical dog
whistle and then you had this human dog
whistle and so I do think it was this
>> thing where you could predictably and
then you you hear other stories of the
reverse engineering program
>> involving
like the only way to fly the craft is
with your mind
>> with your mind.
>> So that seems significant as well. Yeah,
there's definitely a mind machine
interface involved. Um, I think that's
clear. I don't know what you think about
Lazar's testimony. I personally believe
it's true.
>> I do too.
>> Um,
>> I I think it I believe it's true. And
then I also think
they were, you know, they were messing
with him and probably maybe trying to
get certain things out and then went ran
a muck.
>> The in the initial briefing that he got,
I'm not sure how much of that was true.
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Exactly. There's a lot
of passages. UFO Bible, I think he
called it,
>> or whatever it was, the material that
they had him read before he began to
work in the project.
>> That to me seems like like maybe some
manipulation to try and, you know,
>> definitely was some
>> throw some confusion into the mix cuz
they don't ever want any of these guys
putting too many of the pieces together.
Y
>> they just want them to be laser focused
on one aspect of it
>> and you want to give them uniquely false
details. So if there is a leak, you
know, right, you know. Yep. So you
always got and and and Lazar actually he
he thinks that that is
>> he says that possibility.
>> So I actually asked these some of these
psionic guys and well I proposed this
idea to them and they were very
receptive to it. In fact I was told we
know for a fact
>> that some of our assets are abductees.
So there's no question that that's
>> a component of this and they actually um
conceded that yeah that might be why
>> these people can kind of summon UFOs is
because they're already interlaced with
the phenomenon and you're broadcasting
and there's just an automated response.
Um, you know, I hate to put it in such
crude terms, but you know, where the
cattle and the drones show up,
>> right? And, uh, so I think there's
something to that, but
>> well, is there is there but or I mean,
that's the somewhat negative framing.
What if, you know, the Enoch goes up
and, you know, or walks with God and you
have, you know, Ezekiel, maybe it's a
dream like thing, but like he sort of
walks with God. There are people who
believe in this sort of cobbalistic
story and they'll say Jesus in the book
of Acts going up on the cloud is an
example of this
>> and maybe they're taking liberties and
you can you know correct them if they're
wrong but like what if the craft showing
up is like to commune with or take them
somewhere and show them something
beautiful and then they come back down.
Well, um
I mean, okay, let me give you an example
here. I got I got I got to go back to
and and I'm going to give you two
examples.
>> First one is a positive encounter.
>> Okay,
>> so
I have a good friend of mine and he's
gone publicly. He's gone public with
this, so I'll just say his name. His
name is Gary Stman. Wonderful man, older
gentleman.
>> And he's a he's a a great Bible teacher.
Uh just really really knowledgeable.
he's dedicated life his life to. He's in
his 80s now, just a phenomenal Bible
teacher and a really good friend of
mine. And he told me a story one time
that threw me for a loop years ago. And
this sort of got me, it sort of
dislodged me from from a the sort of the
traditional position where you're not
really thinking about UFOs in a biblical
context. This sort of this is, as I like
to say, it rearrange the theological
furniture in my brain a little bit.
He had an encounter and I'm going to get
some of these details wrong, but um
Gary's told this story several times,
including at one of our conferences,
True Legend conferences years ago, but
he was I don't remember the the the the
year and and and he comes from a family,
the Stermanman family. They they an air
an aircraft family and members of the
Stermanman family have worked with
Loheed Martin and various they've been
in the programs, let's just say that.
>> And so that was the environment that
Gary grew up in. And so he was he was
I'm going to try and get the details
right here. He was delivering an
aircraft
um a prop plane. I think he was flying
from I want to say Labuk, Texas to
Dallas I think. I don't remember. Um and
he was delivering this plane and so uh
at the time he just wanted to be a
pilot. He wanted to just do what his
family did. And he was on this routine
business
uh situation where he's delivering this
aircraft. And he gets up in the air and
he's flying and he's a young guy in this
context and he's flying along and then
suddenly the the electrical components
went out on his craft
and he realized he's in trouble, right?
He's he's electrical components went out
of his craft and he knows he's in
trouble. So, I think I forget what he
did to try and manage the situation, but
he knew he he could he could have a real
problem here. And um I think what he was
going to do was try and turn off the
electrical components and then turn them
back on when he was coming closer. So,
he had to land. I don't remember. But he
was in trouble. And I think he was
flying a Cessna.
And as he's flying along with this
problem, serious problem,
he looks off, I think he looks off his
left wing and he sees this shiny object
flying out there in the distance. I
think he said like a mile away. I hope
I'm not butchering this story. I'm
getting the fundamentals right, but I I
hope I'm not butchering the details. He
sees this shiny object flying a mile
away. He thought it's just another
aircraft out there.
And then um at at some point he hears a
voice. He hears a voice
that said and he said it was comical.
The voice said, "If you look to your
left, you'll see a UFO."
And it was like he said it was like a
tour guide voice. It was comical. And he
looks to the left again. And this craft
now is right close to him. And it's a
walnutshaped craft. He got a good long
look at it. It's right off of his left
wing and and it's flying perpendicular
to him and and it's it's just this he
said it was just this beautiful shining
craft. Just it was just just the way he
describes it. This had these colors
emanating off of it and it was just this
silver, you know, the typical silver
craft. No rivets, no seams, you know,
the typical UFO.
And and he said that um he he couldn't
see the beings inside of it, but he felt
them like he had this he felt like this
intense
fraternity like this fraternal affection
is I think the way that he describes it.
like this fraternal affection like like
these beings were familiar with him and
were there to look out look out for him
and and and that craft stayed with him
and guided like basically um it
accompanied him for the rest of the
flight until he got to the airport and
then it just hovered up there and he
landed successfully. Now, the crazy
thing is he gained I think he gained
like three hours. Whoa. Because he was
in close proximity with this craft and
he ended up arriving really late and he
didn't have the fuel for the amount of
time that he was up in the air. He
didn't have the fuel and the people he
was delivering the aircraft to were
freaking out on him. A and in addition,
they he told them there was a problem
with the aircraft. So, they they took
the aircraft to the mechanic to take a
look at it. And the next day, Gary came
back and was talking to the mechanic and
I don't remember what the issue was, but
he should have been dead. Like this is
this this whatever the issue was, the
mechanic said, "I don't know how you
landed this. You you don't you don't
land a plane like this." He should have
been dead. So So Gary,
and here's a really important facet of
this story. So when Gary took off that
day in the Cessna, his trajectory on his
in his life was to be a pilot. By the
time he landed, he knew unequivocally
that he was supposed to be a Bible
teacher.
>> Whoa.
>> So, the encounter with this craft
completely changed the trajectory of his
life and he became he he devoted himself
uh to learning and teaching the Bible
because because of that encounter. So, I
asked Gary, well, what do you think was
in that craft? Who do you think was in
that craft? because they obviously saved
his life and his answer angels
>> were in that craft.
>> So, but that's a true story and Gary's a
wonderful man and uh as I said before,
excellent Bible teacher and that that
that encounter changed his life forever.
So
um that's why I established in the
beginning that you know you can't just
label there's no you if you try and be
overly simplistic with this phenomenon
you're going to get it wrong.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> It's highly complex and I always tell
people embrace the complexity. If you're
trying to squeeze it into one thing
you're going to be wrong. Uh because the
universe is vast for one thing. Um, if
you're coming from a Christian
perspective, you you cannot hope to
constrain the mind of the maker
>> that you don't even comprehend. In other
words, you you can't say that that God's
only created XYZ and that's it. We have
no idea what's out there. We have no
idea.
And I don't do that. I don't restrain
the mind of a being that I cannot hope
to comprehend. the the mind being the
maker himself. So I think that you have
uh a few things happening out there. You
have, as I said in the beginning, you
have some of the what we see are the the
nonhuman good guys.
>> Y
>> the the the the faction that the Bible
describes as angels. Some of them are
are from the same faction, but the bad
guys, the the ones that we would
describe today as quote unquote fallen
angels. And then you have a host of
other things in the game that maybe we
have no idea what the heck they are,
where they come from.
>> And then the the weirdest part of the
whole phenomena is it often feels like
it mirrors somebody's internal state. So
when they do these sort of, you know, um
sigh, you know, attempts to call the
craft, uh I hate to use the word
summoning because that inherently sounds
kind of dark. Yeah. Uh it feels like the
emotions that get amplified. It's almost
like in a psychedelic trip where if you
go in with a lot of ego, you have a lot
of like pain and hardship kind of
excavated and you're humbled. Like it
feels like that.
>> You you you are. Yeah. I the way that
these guys have described it to me
is there's there's it's it's actually in
some cases it's unbearable,
>> right? and they have to be severed like
they can't take it. They have that's why
there's you know I think um
>> well I think a lot of the legacy program
a lot of these guys have sundowner
syndrome and they literally lose their
mind.
>> Yeah. It's unbearable. So they have to
you have to be careful because guys can
go crazy if they're if they're they
establish a connection and whatever's
happening there is so intense that it's
almost like sticking your finger in an
electrical socket. you know, at some
point you're going to get fried and that
they have to cut themselves off or
somebody has to sort of remove them from
that state. Um, and it can be extremely
traumatizing. I know that because the
guys have told me themselves. It can be
extremely traumatizing because you're
you're interfacing with number one
something we don't understand. I think
that's the first that's how we started
off this conversation. Uh, we're
interfacing with something we can't
control.
>> Yeah.
>> We don't understand. that's much smarter
than we are and probably way older.
>> That's the baseline interaction. Those
are the those that's the our baseline
scenario when we interact with this
stuff. So if you're if you're
interacting let's say psychically
psionically with this with this
phenomenon you may
cuz they can they can control the craft
sometimes and not all these craft have
anybody have anything inside of them.
you know, some of these things are just
like uh you know, drone for lack of a
better word. And and because the the
mechanism is a mind machine interface,
they can actually control some of this
or grab grab hold of it, so to speak.
And sometimes there's they'll grab hold
of something and somebody else shows up
to break that connection, right? And
when that somebody else shows up,
there's like this intense
personality that's introduced into that
scenario. like another intelligence is
suddenly introduced in that scenario and
it's overpowering.
It's it's overpowering because their
capabilities are much stronger than
ours. We're like toddlers. I always warn
people like when you interact with this
stuff, it's equivalent,
I think it's an accurate analogy, it's
like a 2-year-old interacting with a
nuclear physicist.
>> Right.
>> Right.
>> That's what it's like.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> We're the two-year-old.
>> Yeah. We can kind of communicate. We
can, you know, say we're hungry, we're
thirsty, whatever, but we're never ever
going to outsmart these people.
>> Yep.
>> We're always going to be manipulated by
them
>> for sure.
>> So, we're always at a disadvantage. And
this is why there's a prohibition of
contact in the biblical in in in the
Bible. M
>> that's why divination there's a
prohibition against divination because
divination is essentially seeking
information
>> from other let's just be very broad in
our terminology here from other
non-human intelligences aside from
Yahweh aside from God so how do you
reconcile because you're clearly very
Christian but you also have an intense
interest in this so how do you reconcile
your almost you know you think of this
whole thing it's like this forbidden
truth you know and it's like this this
kind of constant desire for that with uh
you know your adherence to the Bible and
and Jesus and
>> well it's a
I wouldn't say it's forbidden the the
truth of it I wouldn't say is forbidden
I would say that um I would say that
it's important for Christians to have a
a very well-developed
um paradigm
>> that that can accommodate things without
without busting it shattering it into a
million pieces so an elastic paradigm So
the way that I approach this is
I come at this entire thing from a
Christocentric perspective. So what I
mean by that is traditionally the the
traditional Christian worldview is
anthropocentric
which I call the anthropocentric
perspective and birthright. And in the
from the anthropocentric perspective and
when I say traditional I mean the
traditional Protestant Catholic Orthodox
view
mankind is at the center of all things.
We are at the center of all things and
and and the earth is at the center of
all things. Not necessarily the center
of the universe but like the center of
everything happening. I mean not not the
center of the the solar system um in
that sense even though that's the way
that you know they used to think in
centuries ago. I mean like in terms of
conceptually speaking, mankind is at the
center of everything. And if you think
of it like as a as a wheel, like a a
wagon wheel. You have the hub and then
you have the spokes.
From the anthropocentric perspective,
mankind is the hub and everything that's
happening in the universe is revolving
around him. He is the center of
attention in all things.
And and that's sort of traditionally
been the view. And that's people have a
hard time then contemplating could there
be other extraterrestrial intelligences?
Well, how can that be? How does that fit
into this our our wagon wheel here with
mankind at the c center and everything
focusing on mankind?
Well, I don't have that's not my
perspective.
In fact, I would say that's not the
biblical perspective. The biblical
perspective is an anthroposentric
or rather a Christocentric perspective
of the universe. So you remove mankind
from the center of that wheel from the
hub and you place Christ at the center
right and you make us one of the spokes
of that wheel. Now everything revolves
around him the son of God that
Colossians 1 15-1 17 that I cited
earlier that that he he is the center of
all things. All things were created
through him and for him and he is before
all things and in him all things
consist. That's the that's the
Christocentric perspective. So he's the
main character. He's the primary
protagonist. We are ancillary characters
in his story. Everything the universe
itself was created for him. So once you
once you sort of disassociate
that you disassociate the universe the
purpose of the universe from mankind
that's an important thing. You
disassociate the purpose of the universe
from mankind. We're not the purpose of
the universe anymore. Christ is the
purpose of the universe. It's his story.
It's his universe. Everything revolves
around him. Then that opens up a a much
larger more much more extensive
cosmology
>> because he's now at the center of this
thing. I'm a spoke in that wheel,
>> right? Along with how many other who
knows what we know that the sons of God
exist. The other non-human which we went
through earlier pre-exists us. They're
they're they are preeminent in regard to
their nature. We mankind was created to
be a little lower than the heavenly
beings. So we have non-human
intelligence already in the game
biblically speaking. They're part of the
story, but the story doesn't revolve
around them and it doesn't revolve
around us. It revolves around the
central figure, the s the son of God who
sits at the center of this entire thing.
So when you do that, you can comfortably
begin to accommodate things into a
biblical worldview
and it doesn't matter anymore. Like it
doesn't change, for example, the gospel
of Christ at all. If it turns out that
there are, let's say, let's say that
gray aliens are from zed reticuli.
That doesn't do violence to my
theological perspective at all. Christ
is still at the center of the universe.
The gospel of Christ is still true. And
people often raise the contention, well,
wait a minute. If you could if you have
extraterrestrials, doesn't that mean
therefore that Jesus would have had to
go and die for all the different uh
alien factions on the different
planets or that they all had to have
their own version of Jesus? The Bible
already answers that question. And the
answer is no because it says he did not
help the angels. And what that means
that the context is he didn't provide.
He didn't do what he did for mankind. He
didn't provide a way of reconciliation
for the angels like he did for us. And
the angels are nonhuman intelligence who
are already in the game.
>> These are already extraterrestrial
beings. They're already in the picture
biblically speaking. So just adding some
more intelligent beings into that
equation doesn't change anything
biblically speaking.
>> Have you ever read CS Lewis's space
trilogy?
>> No. And everyone is shocked when I say
that.
>> I'm shocked. You know, I I grew up on
the Chronicles of Narnia when I was a
kid. When I was in grade school and um
elementary school, I grew up I mean, I
just devoured the Chronicles of Narnia.
I just read through the whole seven
books and then start over at the
beginning, read through them again.
>> And and I never cared about I never
wanted to read the space stuff, but
everybody always tells me, "Man, you got
to read the the space truly."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I think
of him as another uh Christian thinker
who's, you know, very um very
impressive, like a really amazing
thinker,
>> very philosophical,
>> very philosophical and uh but then also
has this cosmology and writes about this
sort of space war and it's very
interesting. But
>> yeah, so I I feel like I'm I'm in accord
with CS Lewis even though I've never
read any of this.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, this is
probably sacrilegious after the last 30
minutes of conversation we just had
about religion, but I I need to hear
this story about the Peruvian face
peelers because my god,
>> it's so gnarly. Back in 2023, in the
summer of 2023,
specifically in the month of June and
and July,
there were there were these a series of
videos that hit social media and just
went viral and they featured uh some
indigenous people out in the Peruvian
Amazon
who were encountering this phenomenon
and there was something terrifying
happening to them and they were running
around at night screaming, yelling,
discharging their firearms into the
jungle and and then in interviews these
individuals these various villages but
particularly this particularly at the
center of this was this village called
San Antonio de Pintoyaku
and individuals in these videos were
being interviewed and they were saying
that
they were being attacked by aliens.
Some said aliens, others said pelacaras
which which translates to face peelers.
And um obviously something very
traumatic was happening. It wasn't just
happening in San Antonio Pintoyaku. It
was happening in other villages as well.
Multiple villages were being affected.
Uh there were reports of people who were
being recovered, bodies, cadaavvers that
were being recovered without their faces
or faces partially surgically removed.
And it just spread like wildfire on
social media. And it turns out that, you
know, I lived in Peru for 10 years. And
I cut my teeth in the Amazon. I speak
the particular dialect they speak out
there. They speak Spanish, but they
speak uh a dialect of Spanish that they
call jarapa, which it it mixes in some
catchwin words. And um that's that's the
kind of Spanish. It's it's kind of like
hillbilly Spanish, actually. So um and
it was in happening in an area of the of
the Peruvian Amazon that I'm quite
familiar with roughly in the region of
Alton Nanai was a lot of this was
unfolding. So people were contacting me
and I was I was watching all of this
happen on on uh social media. I made a
couple of videos about it with my friend
Doug Thornton and we were talking about
the phenomenon just sort of tracking it
and people were sending me emails and
tagging me on social media begging me to
go to Peru. But luckily for me, I didn't
have my passport at the time. I had sent
my passport away to renew it. And it
sort of gave me an out cuz I really
didn't feel like going cuz I had to I
was actually had planned a trip with my
son, my oldest son to Guatemala.
And I didn't I was not going to
sacrifice that trip with my son. So, um
I didn't really want to travel before
that. And and I I honestly didn't just
didn't want to go and people were
begging me to go. You need to go up
there. Nobody was going. I kept waiting
for somebody to go. Nobody was going. Um
there were some interviews with some of
the uh villagers in in the city of
Iikidos, but nobody went to the village
except two uh provincial policemen with
a Navy escort. They went to the village
because the villagers were begging the
Navy to come protect them. They were
begging the Navy. They were making these
videos where they're all holding signs
that say, "We're under attack. Please
help us." They were begging the Navy.
These people were clearly not just from
San Antonia, Pintoyaku, various villages
in the region, right? The Alto Nana
generally speaking. And so these
policemen went there um and did a what I
describe as a piss poor investigation.
And they interviewed some of the people,
some of the villagers. They interviewed
a 15-year-old girl named Talia who had
been there was an attempted abduction of
Talia. And they they
concluded these police officers
concluded not based on the testimony of
the villagers. Okay? They concluded that
the villagers were being assaulted by
river miners with jetpack technology.
Now, if you know anything about river
miners
and you've spent time in the Amazon
jungle, you know that that narrative is
absurd.
>> Case closed.
>> It's absurd. And everybody ran with it.
The Peruvian media was all over this
thing. took it very seriously until the
jetpack minor narrative went out and
then everybody bought it hookline and
sinker. Everybody, the Peruvian press,
the American press. It I even watched a
a segment on NewsNation where they were
like joking around like, "Oh, those
pesky miners with jetpacks." Like, it's
those guys obviously. They're trying to
drive the villagers off their land. And
it was absurd.
>> Who owns jetpacks, let alone miners?
>> It was absurd. That's absurd. I none of
these people who are saying this had
ever encountered a Peruvian river miner.
I have. And they don't they don't they
certainly don't have jetpacks.
>> They're not Tony Stark.
>> They're No. They dump a bunch of mercury
in the water, kill everything, and then
drudge the bottom on these on these on
these rusted out boats that can barely,
you know, move and and uh they don't
have any money.
>> And the whole thing was absurd. It was
absurd. So, at that point, I thought,
"Okay,
I got to go cuz this this is bull crap.
It's not jetpack miners." So, my my
passport came back and I didn't have any
more excuses. So, I said, "All right,
I'm going to I had a little window of
time, like a week, right up against my
my Guatemala trip with my son." Uh, and
so I tagged my friend Doug Thornton,
asked him if he'd go with me. And Doug
is a was an infantry marine and a a DHS
uh special operator. So um
uh Doug is a great guy to go with. And
so I organized this this expedition. I
uh I chartered a river boat and I made
contact with the village first. And I
want to thank um the eupfologist Ronnie
Vernett, Brazilian euphologist. He put
me in contact with the village and uh in
fact with the kid that had the young man
that had filmed some of these the
footage that went viral. His name was
Christian. He was a school teacher. And
I got in contact with Christian and
Christian and I began a dialogue and and
what I did was he wanted me to record a
message uh on WhatsApp in regard to my
intentions. I want to come do this
investigation. and and and
he played that recording to the APU, the
chief of the village and his elders. And
then in response, I got an official
invitation to go from the APU. And uh I
was told that I was told that the
villagers were in dire straits, that uh
if there was any way I could help, that
would be great. Also, like I'm I'm free
to come and do whatever investigation I
want, but also, you know, they're
they're running out of medicine and
stuff like that. So, uh, I contacted
some associates of mine, specifically
some of the men from Conduit Church,
some of these awesome dudes over there
who who who wanted to help me fund this
thing because I wanted to I now wanted
to sort of go on a
an aid mission, too, to to restock the
resupply them with medical supplies and
stuff. We did. So, we went to San
Antonio de Pintoyaku on this chartered
river boat. By the way, all of this is
in a YouTube video on my YouTube
channel. And we we brought supplies. The
APU and some of the guys from village
met us in Iikidos and went up the like
escorted us up the river. Took a couple
days to get up the river. Um you go up
the Alto Nana and then you go up the you
go up the Nai River and then you go up
the Pintoyaku from there. And when I
arrived to the village, I was I'd been
in a lot of these villages, you know, in
Peru. This is the first time I was
greeted by, you know, a small army of
men with loaded shotguns.
And they were there cheerfully receiving
us, but they were armed. All of them
were armed. And this is how they were
always since the incursions have been
happening. They were doing patrols. The
men were not sleeping at night. They
were they were sleeping during the day
and then patrolling at night. And they
hadn't been going out to their farms and
and and
they they were it was just um they were
traumatized. So we unloaded all the all
of the uh provisions that we brought
them. We also brought them in addition
to food and medical supplies. We brought
them um some technology. We brought them
some night vision goggles with recording
capabilities so that they could see and
record the phenomenon. We brought them
thermal binoculars. We brought them um
high-powered flashlights. And we brought
them really good radios so that you know
so that they could better protect their
village. And uh and I also went with um
I hired a couple of active duty Navy
jungle commandos to go with me uh
proving guys. And so um we disembarked
and and were greeted by these
villagers and they they brought me into
their Tombbo which is their like their
meeting place. Government have built
have built this thing there. This was
the San Anton Pinuyaku is a it's the
Ketu people and they're a very old uh
community, the very old one of the
oldest communities in the region and
this is sort of one of their last
outposts and this is one of the last it
is like the last outpost of civilization
before just a vast unttracked wilderness
Amazon jungle. So the government had put
a communications outpost there which
means the villagers had internet. They
had satellite internet. So these when I
say villagers, they're not people like
in, you know, grass skirts with blow
with blow guns. They're they're more
modernized villagers and they all have
cell phones. You know, they watch Marvel
movies and stuff sitting in the tombbo
at night. So um they received us uh uh
very um enthusiastically. They did a
traditional Iikitu dance for us. It was
really cool. Um and then we began our
investigation in earnest and um I
started to to go around with the APU the
chief to go to the different areas where
they had encountered the phenomenon and
to interview people and um I'm going try
to encapsulate this. So the first thing
I I came to understand was a lot of
people in the village had encountered
this phenomenon. It wasn't like one or
two people. A lot of them had seen the
phenomenon
and they were all many of them were
traumatized.
So like a lot of PTSD
and basically what they were
encountering was the way that these
incursions would begin was it'd be night
time, always at night time, always after
dark. And they would see like two mini
flying saucers hovering in the air,
right? Just these little saucers with a
series of lights around the bottom. And
that's how they knew the incursion was
about to happen. And then these two
little saucers would go fly into the
jungle and then land. And then shortly
thereafter, they would see two
individuals sneaking into the village.
And these individuals would be dressed
headtofoot in black armored bodysuits
with helmets. They were described as
very much like the Green Goblin from the
Spider-Man movie. Yeah. with the with
the you know because he had that helmet
but he had like kind of the almond
shaped eyes with the yellow almond
shaped eyes
>> and he uses the the craft on the craft.
So that's how what they were saying.
It's like the Green Goblin but without
like the big, you know, grin on the
>> So they stand on the craft. Yeah. And so
what the little flying saucer things
that they saw turned out to be circular
hoverboards
and and these guys were dressed in black
armor bodysuits and their eyes they had
these almond shaped
tinted eye lenses on their helmets. Some
said yellow, some said green. Night
vision, I don't know. And uh and they
were very tall. Everyone said they were
taller than me. I'm 6'1.
And and some people I would go like this
tall, this tall. Some people were like
this tall. like you know 7 7 and 1/2 8
ft tall or whatever.
>> Um so uh basically you know
calculating some exaggeration in there
you know they were probably 6 and 1 half
7t tall conservatively based on what the
villagers told me. So,
um the these individuals, uh they shot
some of them at point blank range with
shotguns, 16 gauge, uh birdshot.
It had no effect. They would literally
hear the BB's dinking off of their
armor. And and one guy said he he was
confronted, one of these guys confronted
him. Well, he confronted one of these
asalants at night. And this particular
guy was dressed in a silver suit. And he
was so adamant. He's like, "I I know all
the other people are saying black, but
what I saw, the guy was silver head to
foot." And he said, "I shot him at point
blank range with a shotgun." And it and
the blast the shotgun, he could hear the
the the BB's dink off the armor and it
knocked the guy back on his butt. And by
the way, when he shot him, the guy was
hovering, not on a hoverboard, just off
of his boots. They had these two
circular discs on the bottom of their
boots that emitted a light and they
could hover. So he was floating. and he
said he was floating about a meter off
the ground. I shot him. He fell back on
his back from the blast and then popped
right back up and just like zoomed away.
Um, a lot of the villagers saw these
guys. A handful of them shot at them.
Uh, one of the villagers said that he he
saw one a larger disc hovering in the
sky. He put his flashlight on it and he
saw two guys the silhouettes of two of
these armored guys together, both of
them on one of on one circular disc.
Uh so sometimes there was this one guy
and they're like surfing on them. And um
and so in addition to the to the black
armored body suits, these asalants, uh
that technology and the hoverboard
technology, it's clear that there was
also advanced aerospace vehicles
involved because more than a few
villagers, one guy drew it on acrylic
chalkboard for me, saw an almond shaped
uh rather a acorn-shaped craft, but like
prone like on its side.
>> Wow.
>> And they all they all drew the same
thing. They all drew it for me. And all
the ones who told me about this, they
drew it in the dirt for me or I had them
draw it in the dirt for me or or the one
guy drew it on the acrylic chalkboard.
I've got that on film. They all drew the
same thing. And some of them saw close
encounter like like 40 ft in the air
above their hut. Some people describe it
as matte black hovering silently. No
propellers, no propulsion. Remember,
these people are watching all the same
movies we are on their phones. They know
what airplanes are. They know what
helicopters are. These aren't like
primitive, like I said, uh, natives. And
one guy said, the guy who drew on the
acrylic chalkboard said that he was
pulling up his nets at night. And as he
was doing that, it was like he said like
somebody turned the lights on or the sun
suddenly came up and he looks up and 30,
40 feet above him is one of these craft
almond shaped um, I keep saying almond
shaped, acorn shape craft. And he said,
but this one was translucent. It was
like it had a mesh, a transparent mesh.
He could see the mesh like looking
through a screen door and he saw two
guys inside of it. Two people or beings
or something inside of it. One in the
front, one in like the belly of it. And
it projected a light down on him and it
and it had these little stubby
protrusions and they opened up and there
was like a series of blinking lights and
then they folded back in and it's and it
started to move off. And he said when it
started to move off there was sort of a
low frequency hum.
So you have not only you have these
armored asalants on these hoverboards,
you have advanced aerospace vehicles, um
unconventional technology being deployed
in the Amazon of Peru, the uh Alto Alto
Nanai region, various
different villages. Now,
>> well, why are they called face peelers?
Uh because
because the the the indigenous people,
if you ask them who these asalants are,
half of them will say they're aliens.
Half of them will say they're face
peelers. And what they mean by face
peelers is there's the the faith face
peeler legend goes back to the 80s, like
the mid 80s. And it it doesn't go
further than that. Um and they say that
these they call them gringoes started
showing up with technology. It was sort
of like the boogeyman. the the the the
wives, I mean the mothers and fathers
would tell their children, "Don't go out
at night. The face peeler will get you."
Because every now and again there'd be
an attack by face peelers and the the
cadaavver of the person would go missing
and then they would show up later
without a piece of their face gone or
their whole face and sometimes their
organs harvested. Um so some villagers
think these are gringoes like CIA, you
know, whatever that's, you know,
everything's CIA to people out there.
So,
>> um they probably thought I was CIA, but
um so, uh
there there was the most important
incident happened with this one of the
most important incidents with this
15-year-old girl named Talia. She was
almost abducted. That's why they the
police went out there. They had to go
out there because there was an attempted
abduction,
kidnapping. So, they had to go
investigate. So, um we interviewed
Talia. I I the first time I saw her, she
was in the village in the middle of the
village uh during the evening, everybody
was out, you know, all the men were
playing soccer. The women were playing
volleyball and she was sitting by
herself against the wall. The apoo
pointed her out to us and me and Doug
just were sort of we didn't really want
to approach her. We didn't want to freak
her out. And she's just sitting there
kind of smiling, watching the the people
play, you know, volleyball and soccer,
just sort of sitting there by herself,
smiling. She looked over, she saw us and
instantly she she started to tremble.
She just started trembling and she froze
up and she just freaked out and she took
her hair. She had long hair. She took it
and moved it over to the side of her
face so we couldn't see her face and she
just sat there trembling and and the
apple brought her father over and we
said, "Hey, we'd love to interview
Talia, but obviously she's very scared."
So he went over to her, tried to
convince her to talk to us. She did not
want anything to do with us. She
associated us with her asalants,
but um the father told us, "Hey, here's
where I live. Come back over tomorrow
morning. I'll talk to her. You guys just
come and I'll bring her out to you."
And so that's what we did the next
morning. Long story short, um
we were standing in in this guy's
backyard. He brought Tully out to us
to talk to her. And soon as she saw, she
started trembling again and crying,
severe PTSD and she had a scar right
here. And uh so we I interviewed Talia
and she told me a wild story. I mean, I
don't really have the time to tell it
right now, but she there was an
attempted kidnapping for by these
asalants one evening and there's a lot
of details that goes into this, but they
they they captured her in her backyard.
They on they landed on hoverboards.
That's how it began. She she she she was
poking at a piece of fruit in the
evening just before just after sundown
or as it's getting dark. The fruit hit
the ground. She bent over to pick it up
and she felt this gust of wind and she
looks over and it's one of these guys
asalants
headtofoot in black armored body suits,
right? Just it's a it's one guy. He's
surfing on this hoverboard and they all
go like this when they tell me like
they're like surfing and the guy comes
there's a little golly. He comes up the
hill hovering and lands the board right
behind her and grabs her from beh the
behind from behind. Grabs her mouth and
grabs her. And then another guy, same
thing, comes surfing up the from the
goalie, lands in front of her, grabs her
feet and then they both lift her off the
ground. And she said when they when they
after they landed they reached down and
touched something on their boot to
engage the technology lifted off the
ground and then they hovered her carried
her behind this chicken coupe this
thatch roof chicken coupe and there
proceeded to without going to all the
details to attempt to cut her face off.
They took out what what we think was a
like a laser scalpel and they began
first they put some cream on her face
which numbed her face. First they shot
something up her nose with a syringe and
she became disoriented and then they put
cream on her face and took out this la
what we think is a laser scalpel and
began to make the incision. And in fact
she heard them speaking. One one of them
she referred to as the gringo because he
sounded like me she said and the other
uh one sounded like a Peruvian. So, and
when they're getting ready to do this,
they're putting the cream on her face
before they start making the incision.
One of them said to the other, "Be
careful. Be careful. Don't put too much
on her face. It'll ruin the flesh."
And she said that what what she thought
they meant was it was she heard them
saying something about how it makes it
difficult to separate the the skin from
the you know, from the flesh beneath it.
Um, so then they proceeded to make the
incision and she started just one last
effort to to to break loose. She started
to push up the helmet on the guy behind
her and he let go of her to pull his
helmet down. He didn't want her to see
him. And when he let go of her, she
screamed
and everyone in the village was already
in a state of vigilance. This wasn't the
first incursion. So they're all sitting
on their porches at night with their
guns and their flashlights getting ready
to start doing patrols. So when she
screamed, they were on scene. her
brother and and and people who lived
near her were on scene within, you know,
very short order. And they saw Talia
laying on the ground in a state of
disorientation and the two asalants,
they were dragging her by the hair
actually at first and they were trying
to lift her off the ground to take her
by her hair and the one guy said, you
know, let her go. We we can't take her
or something like that and he dropped
her and then the other people came on
the scene. And Talia remembered that
part that she was being pulled by her
hair. And then when the others
>> and you show in your video the laser
incision and it's crazy. I mean
>> so so when the other villagers arrive
uh they see the asalants hovering on the
on the discs and they got their
flashlights on them and they went right
up through the canopy.
>> Wow. And I could tell you many other
such instances.
>> But what does this have to do with
Michael Herrera who's this UFO
whistleblower?
>> Well, very very very Indonesia quickly.
>> Okay,
>> so very very quickly um I need to make
sure people understand these incursions
didn't just happen in remote v villages
in the jungle. They also happened in the
city of Na.
>> 36,000 inhabitants, hardened target with
the Navy presence, proving navy
presence, militaries, helicopters. Okay.
It's not miners with jetpacks trying to
drive people off of the land so they
could mine the water, the river. That's
not what this phenomenon is. The fact
that the incursions were happening in
Ala absolutely
uh debunks that that narrative. So the
Michael Herrera thing, I think what
we're looking at is and and Michael's a
friend of mine and uh he
uh had a as everyone knows I won't I
won't retrace his story, but um he
encountered a disc a large disc in
Indonesia. Yeah, it was an eightgone
craft that was blacker than black and he
was apprehended by these people that
weren't special forces but had super
technology, some paramilitary group and
they were they seemed to be escorting
these psionic assets on board this like
alien reprod like this exotic manned
craft.
>> They were engaging in human trafficking
put it. That's what it seems.
>> Very simple terms.
>> Exactly. So, so the the connection there
is nefarious people,
>> paramilitary
organizations with advanced aerospace
craft using it for the most for the most
abominable things imaginable, including
uh including um human trafficking for
whatever purposes, harvesting psionic
assets, which they do.
>> In this case, peeling flesh off. in this
case peeling flesh, but I think they
were using the pace the face peeler
phenomenon as a cover
>> for what?
>> For something else that was going on.
And very, very quickly, there was an
operation happening, a joint operation
happening in Peru that had some
crossover when when these incursions
were happening in the jungle. It was
called Resolute Sentinel, and it
involved it involved uh basically every
military agency
>> we have. The Marines were there in Peru,
the Air Force, the Navy.
>> That's not a coincidence. the the space
force was there, the the coast guard and
they were running joint operations,
training operations with the Peruvian
military, Uruguay, I think Ecuador,
Brazil, the UK was involved. It was
like,
>> so what would the face peeling be a
distraction from?
>> I don't know. But, you know, I always
wonder if if that sent Resolute Sentinel
was a cover.
>> Wow. either
I'd like to think it's it was a cover
for some sort of um benevolent operation
happening to try and drive these guys
out or capture them or something. I
don't know. I hate to think it was I
hate to think that we were experimenting
with something out there. That would be
awful.
>> I I I hate to think that and I don't
want to think that.
Um, or is there some sort of um third
party in possession of some
subcontracting
uh apparatus underneath these uh
aerospace contractors who maybe have
gone rogue?
>> Some nefarious global breakaway.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that what we're looking at here?
>> On that sinister note,
>> and there's a whole lot more to be said
of this. We we're out of time. If you
look at my video on YouTube, the face
people
>> Yeah. Well, we'll we'll we'll cut parts
of it in and but this was amazing,
Timothy. I really appreciate your time,
man. This was a blast and uh love the
way you think and uh we got to run it
back cuz we I think we just did like 4
hours and 45 minutes or something like
that. So,
>> man, it was my pleasure. You do just
amazing work and um just keep going.
>> Oh, thanks, man. You're awesome.
Likewise. Let me get you to the airport.
Let's go.
>> Yeah, let's go. Let's get out of here.
Woo!