[@joerogan] Joe Rogan Experience #2502 - David Paulides

Link: https://youtu.be/_UduwgMDR-0

Duration: 140 min

Transcript: Download plain text

Short Summary

This episode features David Paulides, a former police officer turned missing persons investigator, discussing over 1,500 unresolved cases where multiple K9 teams failed to locate individuals, suggesting bodies were "placed there later." The conversation covers alien abduction cases, Bigfoot DNA controversy, government UFO cover-ups, Skinwalker Ranch phenomena, and the potential role of hallucinogenic mushrooms in folklore legends.

Key Quotes

1. "But Joe, I have 1,500 of those cases where canines were brought in, multiple K9 teams, multiple searches, and people were not found." (00:09:05)
2. "That's [ __ ] weird. The exemption is intended to prevent premature disclosure of the investigate investigatory materials that might be used in law enforcement action. 40 years later, it says the incident is still on in criminal investigations. The incident is still ongoing." (00:16:57)
3. "One of the things I say at conferences is, "What if we're the ant farm?"" (01:32:07)
4. "Reality itself at the lowest observable, the smallest, the deepest we can look at it, it's [ __ ] magic. Like reality itself is magic." (01:53:43)
5. "Father's side, it doesn't exist in Genbank. 352 billion base pairs of DNA does not exist. The father's DNA does not exist. Jenbang says it's impossible." (01:00:00)

Detailed Summary

Missing Persons Investigation Overview

David Paulides, a former police officer turned missing persons researcher, has documented over 1,500 cases where multiple K9 teams conducted searches yet individuals were never found, arguing bodies must have been "left there later" rather than simply missed during searches. Off-duty rangers at Yosemite approached Paulides to investigate missing persons cases after failing to obtain reports through FOIA requests.

• Paulides disputes resource limitations as an explanation, arguing 1,500 failed canine searches cannot be attributed to incompetence alone
• Approximately 40-50% of people who go missing under weird circumstances are never found, with only about 25% of those found split between alive and dead
• Hypothermia theory cannot explain cases where people remove all clothing in moderate weather, as hypothermia doesn't cause rapid undressing
• The Department of the Interior quoted $1.4 million to compile a missing persons list from the entire system, or $34,000 for just Yosemite
• Paulides has made five documentaries investigating missing persons cases including "Missing 411: National Parks Washington State" and "American Sasquatch: Man, Myth, or Monster"

The Stacy Eris Case and FOIA Obstruction

The Stacy Eris case—a 14-year-old girl who disappeared near High Sierra Camp at Yosemite 46 years ago—was triggered by her being raised five miles from Paulides' hometown of Ceres, California. FOIA exemption 7A was invoked to withhold the Stacy Eris case report even though it was 40 years old with no apparent active enforcement proceedings.

• The case occurred 46 years ago, making the FOIA exemption rationale questionable given the lack of active enforcement proceedings
• Government obstruction of old missing persons records suggests coordination at federal levels to suppress certain case information
• Paulides' personal connection to the case (five miles from his hometown) prompted his deeper investigation into similar unexplained disappearances

The Gilbert Gilman Disappearance

Former army intelligence officer Gilbert Gilman, who worked in Israel, Africa, and political campaigns in Washington State and spoke six languages, disappeared in 2006 while hiking in Olympic National Park despite wearing inappropriate attire (Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shirt, flip-flops). FBI agents visited his mother's 30th-floor Chicago townhouse and took a legal pad with Arabic writing without a search warrant.

• Gilman's girlfriend indicated he may have worked for the CIA and became emotional discussing his past
• His 88-year-old mother believes he may have been recruited as a spy for the US government and is still alive under a new identity
• The National Park Service notably did not provide information on his missing person report
• The FBI's warrantless seizure of Arabic documents from his mother's residence raises questions about the intelligence community's involvement

The Ron Tamman Case

In the 1950s, Miami University student Ron Tamman—described as a varsity wrestler and band member—disappeared the night a fish was placed in his bed as a mysterious signal. Five months later, the head of housing spotted him at a bed and breakfast in New York, 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border, accompanied by three men in suits, before all four departed. His family in Los Angeles never saw or heard from him again.

• A prank involving the fish was confessed to in 2010, but the circumstances of his disappearance remain unexplained
• The presence of three men in suits accompanying him suggests possible organization or agency involvement
• The timing of the fish incident immediately preceding his disappearance may have been more than coincidence
• His family never received any communication from him after the bed and breakfast sighting

Other Notable Missing Persons Cases

A Toronto fireman on a ski trip in New York went missing and appeared 2,500 miles away in Sacramento with no memory, while an Indiana truck driver was found dead two weeks after extensive searches in already-searched fields. In Yosemite Valley near the Merced River—an area described as difficult to get lost in—bodies were found in circumstances inconsistent with normal accidents.

• Investigators from 40 years ago documented a case where a woman was found so far from a cliff that park service officials used the unusual term "she was launched," wording never seen before in any park service report
• At Mount Rainier, at least 15 people have never been found with no tracks, scent trail, or evidence of their presence
• The locations where people disappear often share unusual characteristics that contradict standard wilderness survival scenarios

Carl's Alien Abduction Case

Carl, a Wyoming hunter in Medicine Bow National Forest (75 miles northwest of Cheyenne), had a bullet stop mid-air and was subsequently abducted by entities who took his elk. Carl was held aboard a craft, told "we don't want you, you're going back," and fell 10-15 feet upon return; X-rays later showed his childhood tuberculosis and other medical issues were completely cured.

• The Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement examined Carl's deformed bullet and could not determine what caused it to flatten
• Multiple German hunters have disappeared in the same Medicine Bow area where Carl was abducted
• His medical conditions were completely cured upon return, suggesting possible healing technology or intervention
• The entities explicitly told him they didn't want him, indicating the abduction may have been accidental or related to the elk rather than targeting humans

Travis Walton and Group UFO Sightings

Travis Walton's well-documented abduction case shares common patterns: multiple witnesses who passed polygraph tests, consistent stories, and medical examinations aboard craft. A group of 12 tree planters in Washington State witnessed a classic UFO take an elk while the herd scattered; MUFON investigators confirmed all accounts were consistent.

• Polygraph-passing witnesses provide credibility that individual claims alone cannot achieve
• MUFON investigators confirmed all 12 tree planters gave consistent accounts of the UFO taking an elk
• Group witnesses eliminate individual delusion or fabrication as explanations for the sightings

Bigfoot Research and the Ketchum DNA Controversy

Dave describes Bigfoot footprints as weighing approximately 700 pounds with dermal ridges similar to fingerprints, walking in a straight line with a 4-5 foot stride. Dr. Melba Ketchum analyzed 111 samples from 34 North American sites, claiming human mitochondrial DNA plus unusual nuclear sequences not matching known animals, proposing that approximately 15,000 years ago, an unknown hominin male population interbred with modern human females creating a hybrid lineage.

• Maternal DNA traced back 12,000-15,000 years to the Middle East; paternal DNA (352 billion base pairs) does not exist in GenBank
• Geneticists and forensic biologists identified contamination and poor lab practice as the most likely explanation, noting 100% modern human mtDNA is expected from contaminated samples
• UC Davis and approximately six other major institutions refused to analyze the samples
• Ketchum's paper was published in the obscure Denovo Scientific Journal she effectively controlled
• Wally Hersam, who gave millions of dollars to BFRO over 10-15 years, pulled all funding after viewing Ketchum's results, stating "they had proven exactly what Bigfoot is"
• No major genetics lab or independent research group has replicated Ketchum's results or confirmed a novel hominin genome

Skinwalker Ranch Phenomena

Colum Kellaher, head of investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch, spent almost 20 years investigating abductions, cattle mutilations, and UFOs. At 2:00 AM, researchers observed a bright light expand into a tube-like portal from which a bipedal, 7-8 foot tall, entirely black entity emerged.

• The "hitchhiker effect" refers to investigators reportedly taking entities home with them after leaving Skinwalker Ranch
• Joe Rogan visited Skinwalker Ranch for the Sci-Fi Channel show "Joe Rogan Questions Everything"
• The 2:00 AM timing suggests phenomena occur during specific periods, possibly related to electromagnetic or temporal factors
• Joe expresses skepticism about most Bigfoot footage (calling Patterson footage "a guy in a monkey suit") but argues too many consistent stories exist to completely dismiss the phenomenon

Native American Legends and Folklore Connections

Native Americans have approximately 50 different names for Bigfoot, all universally describing a bipedal, hairy, ape-like being 8-10 feet tall; no tribe considers it an animal. The Cherokee language includes Yuni Sunundai (little people/dwarves/forest people) and Kawi Anuasha (forest dweller).

• Pacific Northwest tribes held a press conference in the 1920s-30s reporting Bigfoot entities threw rocks at tribe members
• Historical accounts from 1885 describe beings arriving from bright orbs, suggesting UFO-like phenomena connected to Bigfoot sightings
• The consistency across 50 different tribal languages indicates a widespread, genuine phenomenon rather than regional folklore

Hallucinogenic Mushrooms and Folklore Creatures

The Lactarius Asiatica mushroom in Yunnan, China causes visions of pint-sized elf-like figures; a hospital treats hundreds of patients annually for these hallucinations. Historical Christmas art commonly depicted Amanita muscaria mushrooms alongside elves, visually similar to Santa's red outfit.

• The Yunnan hospital treats hundreds of patients annually for mushroom-induced hallucinations of elf-like beings
• Historical Christmas depictions of Amanita muscaria suggest the red-and-white mushroom may have inspired Santa imagery
• The consistent physical description of "pint-sized elves" across geographically separate cultures suggests a biological basis for certain folklore creatures
• Joe Rogan notes quantum physics reveals reality is "bizarre and essentially magic" with particles appearing/disappearing and superposition, providing context for why unusual phenomena may be more plausible than traditionally believed

DMT and Psychedelic Research

DMT is the most potent psychedelic compound known to science, produced naturally by the human brain and found in thousands of plants. Amazonian peoples discovered thousands of years ago how to make DMT orally active by combining it with harmala alkaloids from another plant—creating ayahuasca—which prevents gut monoamine oxidase from breaking down the DMT.

• Some scholars from Jerusalem have proposed that the biblical story of Moses and the burning bush may have been an acacia plant containing DMT
• DMT users consistently describe the experience as feeling more real than ordinary reality, with vivid colors, geometric living patterns
• Encounters with entities are described as potentially robotic or hybrid rather than fully biological
• The combination of harmala alkaloids (MAO inhibitors) with DMT enables oral activity, otherwise destroyed by stomach enzymes

Government UFO Secrets and Kenneth Arnold's Mount Rainier Sighting

Kenneth Arnold's 1947 UFO sighting over Mount Rainier—while he was actually searching for a crashed Marine transport—marked the beginning of the modern UFO era. The documentary "Age of Disclosure" by Dan Farah features senior intelligence officials on record claiming dozens of crashed craft of non-human origin have been recovered by elements of the government.

• Multiple sources state the recovered bodies were not all the same type, implying multiple species involvement
• Federal agencies pushed back against the president's February directive to declassify evidence of non-human intelligent life
• Those who have gatekept this information for 80 years apparently don't want to share it despite presidential pressure
• An eight-pointed star in a 2013 declassified infrared military video was debunked by experts as distortion from hot jet engine exhaust fumes hitting a military infrared camera
• Bob Lazaro claims to have been back engineering extraterrestrial craft as part of a small group with information fundamentally different from mainstream understanding