[@Area52Investigations] Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner

Link: https://youtu.be/HFLBDi87888

Duration: 95 min

Transcript: Download plain text

Short Summary

Host Chris's sprawling UFO-research podcast opens with a magician guest performing mentalism and explaining how in-person magic differs from video, then pivots into a wishlist of dream interviews (Tim Taylor, David Grusch, Bobby Ray Inman) and deep dives on figures like Hal McMenamin, Dan Burisch, Edward Aldridge, and a Carthusian monk. In a second segment, guest "Gerb," a UAP disclosure researcher who works directly with military and intelligence witnesses, joins to criticize Steven Greer's editing and HIPAA practices, lament the race-against-time to capture deathbed testimony from aging insiders like Donald Kerr and Inman, and condemn UFO news coverage as anxiety-inducing "SportsCenter or TMZ for UFOs."

Key Quotes

1. "And you go, we didn't set anything up, right? But you don't know that you were set up if you've handed me your phone before, you know, cuz I was doing some pre-show magic trick to you and I did something." (00:01:39)
2. "He said he spent a ton of time with Kissinger and Kissinger seemed to know a lot about the UFO stuff." (01:08:13)
3. "And you managed to take this like topic that touches on like onlogical truths, sacred truths, like what is reality like you know itself like the most important questions and you've managed to turn it into like this he said she said like food fight thing and it's like how come on" (01:32:54)
4. "your knowledge is as wide as a ocean, but as deep as a puddle, right? Cuz you don't have the time or ability to really specialize in various parts of the subject." (01:33:44)

Detailed Summary

Magic & Mentalism Opening

The episode opens with a magician guest performing and explaining mentalism before the discussion pivots to UFO research.

• The magician performs a Four of spades mentalism trick using a fresh 54-card deck that was cut once before being spread, then reveals he did not actually read micro-expressions; the card was forced or peeked after the choice.
• The guest contrasts in-person closeup magic with video, where viewers can pause and rewind frames, arguing that in-person suspension of disbelief is "unwilling" rather than granted for the trick's sake.
• A friend named Spidey runs a behavioral arts YouTube channel and cited the Pinocchio effect — the claim that lying increases blood flow to the face, causing microscopic nose swelling.
• The host describes feeling child-like awe during an in-person plastic trick and notes that even after being warned about micro-expressions, he felt his own eye twitching while answering.
• Lie detectors measure only heart rate and cortisol, which indicate stress but cannot identify what someone is lying about.

Past Interview Highlights & Interview Wishlist

The host reflects on consequential past interviews and lists dream guests still to come.

• Tim Taylor is described as the host's "white whale" interview goal, framed as the missing link connecting trippy phenomena with nuts-and-bolts space, time travel, and Bermuda Triangle work; he is associated with Aerospace Corp / NASA and wrote an autobiography called Launch Fever.
• Charles Hall was identified as the guest the host found hardest to take at face value, with Jesse co-hosting that interview alongside Chris.
• The host says he is "pretty sure" a crash retrieval program is ongoing and that the metaphysical truth behind it interests him more than the mechanics; he would like a 3–4 hour fireside chat with David Grusch and notes he has never held a security clearance, allowing him to "cross lines" Grusch cannot.
• Bobby Ray Inman (former NSA director and CIA deputy director) is the #2 dream guest, described as "insanely spooky"; Jay Anderson previously interviewed Inman and produced "eclectic sound bites."

Hal McMenamin, Peter Curry & Jeremy Weekes

The host describes some of his most consequential interviews, focusing on McMenamin's intelligence ties and geneticist Horus Drew's unusual research.

• Hal McMenamin reportedly attended Yale and Oxford, claimed a foreign intelligence source documented Towns Brown collaborating with Tesla on gravity research, kept Paul Mellon's walking stick at his apartment (Mellon founded the CIA), and was best friends with Tom Farmer, the CIA's general counsel.
• The panel calls the McMenamin interview one of the most important any of them have done, and says Malmgren had a "much wider scope" than originally imagined.
• Peter Curry was flown in from Australia via geneticist Horus Drew, who tested a hair pulled from a "being" — the results showed it was half Asian, half Basque, blonde, and immune to AIDS without the CCR5 gene deletion.
• Horus Drew also worked with Bill Chocker, author of Hair of the Alien, and decoded Jeremy Weekes' initial binary sequence over a few weeks; the binary had been in the possession of someone named Lynalt.

Towns Brown, Project Preserve Destiny & The X-Files

The discussion threads together Brown's alleged time-travel work, the X-Files lineage, and craft artwork.

• Tim Taylor reportedly told Chris Bledsoe's son he was part of a time-travel group for which Towns Brown was president, and Bledsoe claimed Taylor was writing a book with Towns Brown's daughter (who also left an Amazon review on Taylor's book).
• When asked, Towns Brown's daughter said her father is "probably rearranging the math on the most frontier science to make sure we don't blow ourselves up."
• The host argues "the program" is a misnomer and distinguishes Project Preserve Destiny (Dan Sherman's humming-tone work) from reverse-engineering crash retrievals as stepwise different.
• Bill McDonald created the "Tehachapi Triangle" artwork in 1992 depicting the "XF-131 Super Sentinel," based on a meeting with two Lockheed and two Northrop engineers at a Denny's in Antelope Valley; he also designed craft imagery used in Roswell-related depictions.
• FBI agent Guy Banister at 554/544 Camp Street in New Orleans is cited as the real-life inspiration for The X-Files; Lee Harvey Oswald worked out of his building and Fred Chrisman appeared at the Maury Island incident, which was adjacent to the Kenneth Arnold sighting.
• Nick Pope held the UK MOD UFO desk and operated a public 1-800-style number that people could call; Chris Carter is described in American Cosmic as having been taken to a real location resembling an X-Files season finale set.

Nazi / Exotic Lineage Programs

The hosts detail post-WWII US programs to acquire Nazi and German saucer technology.

• Tom August's book covers the US race to acquire Nazi commtop technology, including the Habrare/Habbaral/Project Habraum designs brought to the US.
• The Avro Project in the US tested flying saucers that couldn't fly due to the "Kanda effect," and US counterintelligence acquired Victor Schaebuller's IP and brought German saucer researchers over (Operation Paperclip, AVRO counter-intelligence).
• Dennis Asperg stated Russia had a presence around the Baltic Sea anomaly; Russia allegedly has a Yamanoto mountain range where they study "extended electronics," likened to Area 51.
• NURO (National Underwater Reconnaissance Office) was formed in 1969 to coordinate Navy and CIA DS&T reconnaissance and ran until 1974; programs like Ivy Bells placed seabed sensors worldwide, potentially denying Russia equivalent underwater access.

Dan Burisch Claims

Burisch's alleged house arrest and his claims about future-human "beings" are covered in detail.

• Dan Burisch is reportedly under house arrest in Canada, allegedly babysat by ex-MJ12 deputies acting as an enforcement arm; he has not done interviews since the early 2000s.
• Burisch gave a public speaking event on molecular biology at Stony Brook University after which his schooling records were allegedly erased, similar to Bob Lazar; he claims Edward Teller recruited him.
• A photo reportedly shows Burisch with Mike McConnell (former NSA director, Navy admiral); Brian Jackson stated McConnell viewed Burisch "like the son he never had."
• Burisch claims the beings are humans from the future from two separated timelines who ended up as breakaway civilizations in Zeta Reticuli and Orion, steering humanity away from imminent doom — interpreted by the hosts as preventing Hillary Clinton's 2016 election.

Edward C. Aldridge, SAP Architecture & Epstein Emails

The hosts review SAP oversight history, leaked emails, and connections to the Epstein network.

• Edward C. "Pete" Aldridge served as Secretary/Under Secretary of the Air Force and CEO of the Aerospace Corporation; he was a senior board member at LTB Aerospace, which transitioned to E Systems (described as a CIA shell company) and was bought by Raytheon.
• Aldridge allegedly expanded SAP controls to let legacy programs hide within other programs and program cover offices; a "History of SAFA" document describes outside activities created in his time.
• In 2024, Chris Mellon posted on Twitter that he and Alex Katz tracked down the SCES "gatekeeper" in the Air Force, naming Russell E. Wiler (SAF/AHA, Sensitive Activities) or William E. McClure (SAF/AAZ) as candidates; the post was made in response to Sean Kirkpatrick leaking Mellon-Kirkpatrick Signal DMs.
• An email exchange between "Robert [redacted]" and Jeffrey Epstein reads: "I deeply appreciate your strong intention with the bold interviews of the best physicists to be closer to the truth about our universe and its basic physical mysteries."
• The Epstein email referenced a "JFizz" article by Dr. Yuri Grieov, a physicist/artist in Germany with an idiosyncratic multiverse theory predicting antimatter/anti-gravity, who was blocked from publishing in physics journals; the same chain cc'd Epstein on a "Closer to the Truth" PBS series collaboration.
• Eric Davis told Eric Weinstein he met with five people on the crash retrieval program through NIDS/BAASS and all said the program was staffed by material scientists with no physicists — described by the host as a "brain dead" policy.
• Jeffrey Epstein allegedly placed Zorro Ranch in New Mexico to be near retired Los Alamos physicists, discussed in recorded conversations with Steve Bannon; Bill Richardson is flagged as a possible connection (NM governor, Secretary of Energy under Bill Clinton).
• The host searched Epstein's contacts for "Bob Lazar," "Casimir" (zero-point energy), and "anti-gravity," turning up an Epstein email referencing gravity/anti-gravity conferences and physicist collaborations.
• Vadim Zean, author of Trans-Surfing Reality, is described as possibly Israeli and allegedly a collection of people closely associated with physicist Hal Puthoff ("the Israeli version of Puthoff").

Vatican, Pope Pius XII & Kirsan Ilyumzhinov

The discussion covers Vatican back-channels, alleged archival access, and an unusual pathway into a Vatican event.

• The Magenta crash allegedly fell under Pope Pius XII's jurisdiction, who back-channeled information to FDR after the war; the speaker is producing a Vatican-and-UFOs documentary and interviewed Maronei's grandson, who said Maronei was part of RS33.
• Pulka discussed Vatican archives access with Tim Taylor, and the speaker claims a Vatican word translated as "cloud" was actually closer to "object," with Roman flaming shields or drums used as substitutes.
• A UFO research group reportedly meets once a year at St. Ann's Cathedral within the Vatican grounds.
• The speaker gained access to a Vatican interdisciplinary faith event via a contact connected to Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, president of Kalmykia (population ~300,000); Ilyumzhinov was also FIDE president, spent significant time with Kissinger, and said Kissinger seemed knowledgeable about UFOs.
• Ilyumzhinov claimed a president of another country, a friend of his, was abducted during a fishing trip but was afraid to speak publicly; he tried to present a chess piece to the pope, who did not engage.
• The speaker shook hands with someone later identified as the Cardinal Secretary of State (number two to the pope), who the host later learned had expressed interest in UFOs.

Carthusian Monk & Remote Viewing Monastery

The hosts recount a rare interview with a monk and alleged CIA remote-viewing operations targeting a monastery.

• The speaker learned from John Stewart about a Carthusian monk in Vermont believed to have knowledge of extraterrestrial matters; the monk is reportedly in his 90s (later cited as 95 and 97), in good health, and broke his vow of silence to answer an intermediary's questions.
• The CIA or DIA allegedly hired remote viewers directed toward a large white monastery in the northeastern US; Joe McMoneagle confirmed remote viewers were tasked with a monastery in that area but said the assignment involved hauntings, was private, and occurred post-Stargate.
• Six monks were reportedly trained as counterintelligence remote viewers; the two most talented were flown to S4 to communicate with a non-human being, allegedly listening telepathically and translating in real time to a colonel or general.
• Rick Dodie allegedly sent pizzas and letters/faxes to the monastery, which the host reads as Dodie not knowing the story but having genuine interest.
• The speaker drafted a letter framed around Cold War–era rumors of agencies hiring people with monastic ties but held off to avoid disrupting the monks' vow of silence.
• John Stewart released a video alleging Whitley Strieber is a CIA agent (framed as "2026's internet-breaking news"), sourced from William Cooper's Behold a Pale Horse.

Guest "Gerb" — UAP Disclosure Researcher

"Gerb," who works directly with military and intelligence witnesses, joins to discuss testimony capture and Steven Greer controversies.

• The primary interviewee, "Gerb," works directly with UAP witnesses and sources, focusing on capturing testimony from retired high-level military and intelligence figures.
• Gerb has attempted to get multiple insiders to pre-record testimony, but sources consistently insist on waiting until their deathbeds to disclose information.
• The conversation takes place on host Chris's show informally called "the flying saucer," where guests enjoyed apple pie and burgers; Jesse is also addressed by name during the discussion.
• A friend named Omar was staying at St. Catherine's Monastery, claimed to be the oldest monastery in the world, and was there on January 31st when Gerb reached out about UAP topics.

Steven Greer Controversies

Gerb raises sharp criticism of Greer's handling of witness testimony and editing.

• Gerb alleges that witnesses approach Steven Greer under doctor-patient privilege because Greer is a licensed doctor, believing HIPAA protects their communications.
• Greer has reportedly collected and distributed such testimony on "several" occasions, which Gerb characterizes as both unethical and illegal, and Greer has been legally mandated to take down documents and threatened with legal action over HIPAA violations.
• Greer is accused of cutting significant portions of an interview with Jonathan Wigan and removing all of James Fox's questions from another interview before releasing it; James Fox reportedly told Gerb he was unaware Greer had removed his parts.
• The raw, uncut James Fox interview remains available in the DPI archive, in contrast to the version posted on YouTube.
• Gerb acknowledged Greer did the "right thing" by platforming witnesses at the National Press Club in 2001 (including McCandlish) and again in 2023 with Mike Herrera.

Key Witnesses & Self-Censorship

The hosts detail high-value witnesses, threats against them, and the editorial cuts made to protect sources.

• Gerb highlighted a retired, very high-level armed forces member as having one of the most worthy testimonies, noting the witness has seen bodies, tech, and craft.
• This witness is disabled, has family members with disabilities reliant on his pension, and has been threatened with pension loss as a pressure tactic to silence him.
• Donald Kerr was described as having the "most robust CV" Gerb has ever seen, including roles as director of the NRO, within DS&T, on MITER, as EG&G special projects VP or director, and as director of Los Alamos.
• Bobby Ray Inman and Donald Kerr were both described as very old, framing a "race against time" to capture their testimony before they pass.
• The speaker called Donald Kerr "spook spook spook" and speculated he might be NHI (non-human intelligence).
• Lord Admiral Hill Norton, former head of the UK naval fleet, was mentioned alongside Greer's interview subjects.
• The speaker edits videos after recording and has cut content from a John Ramirez interview at his request around the time Matt Brown released the Immaculate Constellation document; Ramirez was sternly told he cannot talk about the subject, and his part was cut from Age of Disclosure despite discussing the same topics elsewhere.
• Lou Elizondo, when interviewed, told the host to ask anything but was evasive and used a playbook of responses.

Critique of UFO News Coverage

The hosts argue that daily UFO coverage is harmful to the field and to viewers.

• The host described UFO news coverage at its worst as akin to "SportsCenter or TMZ for UFOs," turning ontological and sacred questions into "high school drama" or a "he said she said food fight."
• Chris attempted news roundups for approximately two episodes before abandoning the format because daily UFO news required research he could not sustain.
• Generalist UFO knowledge was characterized as "as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle," since the field's sub-areas (experiencers, science and physics, legacy program stuff) force specialization.
• Specific UFO news outlets referenced by name include Vetted, The Night Shift, and Psicoactivo.
• One speaker shared personal experience with depression tied to the topic and suggested anyone doing high-drama UFO coverage likely suffers from some form of depression or anxiety.
• Speakers framed the UFO topic as touching on "ontological truths, sacred truths, like what is reality," characterizing it as among the most important questions humans can ask.

Host Personal Details & Closing Tone

The host shares personal habits and a commitment to preparation.

• Host Chris stated he trains jiu-jitsu six times a week (four sessions plus two additional sessions) and prefers compound movements like deadlifts over leg presses, arguing leg presses don't help with functional or athletic movements.
• He has three upcoming guests, each with four books, and committed to reading at least one book from each guest before interviews.
• A Canadian guest noted the last great white shark death in Northern California was around 2013.
• The discussion emphasized that constant news-cycle coverage heightens anxiety because each take is shaped by current consumption, requiring later retractions and contributing to depression.