[@JesseMichels] “A Top Government Official Told Me Aliens Run Everything!” -Dylan Borland UNLEASHED

Link: https://youtu.be/K4gYHs84BIc

Duration: 199 min

Transcript: Download plain text

Short Summary

This long-form interview features UAP whistleblowers Dylan Borland (former USAF 1N1 geospatial intelligence analyst) and Jesse (former BAE Systems/DTRA counter-WMD expert) recounting a 2012 Langley AFB triangular craft sighting, alleged government retaliation including falsified treason charges and brake-line tampering, and the launch of the Vanguard initiative to protect future whistleblowers. The discussion spans AARO/ODNI disputes, MK Ultra connections, simulation theory, and concludes with a Vanguard.org call to action alongside a hip-hop top-five interlude.

Key Quotes

1. "I am sure there are crafts that were not made by humanity at this current time and place when we recovered them." (00:00:59)
2. "A nonhuman intelligence pyramid power source." (00:01:42)
3. "They extremely hinted at it. Yes." (00:01:18)
4. "I get hooked onto this polygraph machine and there's a computer where they're flashing images and air horns. I have to count backwards from 100 by 7. And if I went 100 93 86 instead of saying 7978, the air horn would go off and I would have to restart and they would restart the flashing images." (00:01:50)
5. "I know directly that right now in our government there is cell phone video ending the conversation about the triangles once and for for all. And that is cell phone video. That's not even imagery. Cell phone video within 100 feet of it. I know it for a fact." (00:52:02)

Detailed Summary

Guest Backgrounds and Military Heritage

Dylan Borland and Jesse (also referenced as Dylan) are the two principal whistleblowers featured in this long-form interview, each bringing distinct intelligence-community credentials to their UAP disclosures.

• Dylan Borland is a former US Air Force 1N1 geospatial intelligence specialist, born in Washington DC but raised in Pittsburgh, PA, with grandfathers who served in Army Counter Intelligence (Panama) and the Navy.
• Borland's father was a Navy veteran who worked 18-20 hour shifts on aircraft carriers and later worked at the National Archives setting up museums, reflecting a multi-generational military family.
• Borland enlisted in the Air Force in 2010 (ASVAB score 96-97), completed Army National Guard ROTC and undergraduate work in criminal justice at Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), and was medically discharged in 2013.
• He served as an enlisted Air Force imagery analyst doing ISR with manned/unmanned aircraft and satellites, supporting PJs, SEALs, and Dev Group on a 12-hour Panama shift schedule.
• The drone program he worked in reportedly had a worse suicide rate than other military units at one point, and he describes psychological effects including dissociation, compartmentalization, and a video-game-like PTSD unique to drone operators.
• Jesse worked at BAE Systems from 2015 to 2018 and at DTRA (a subsidiary of Aditra) from January 2019 until summer 2024, totaling approximately six years of intelligence-community contracting work.
• Jesse served about five years at the Defense Threat Reduction Agency on counter-WMD efforts and held ACCM-level clearance rather than SAP-level clearance while at DTRA.
• Both speakers hold advanced degrees and allege professional retaliation, with Jesse maintaining a dead man's switch after police confirmed his brake lines were cut, and Borland testifying before Congress in September 2025.

The 2012 Langley Triangle Sighting

Around 1:30-2:00 AM in summer 2012, Dylan Borland encountered a triangular UAP near the NASA hangar at Langley Air Force Base in an event that became foundational to his whistleblowing disclosures.

• Borland saw a white light pop up near the NASA hangar at Langley AFB; a triangle manifested around the light and flew toward him, stopping approximately 100 feet in front and 100 feet above him.
• His classified AROM MFR described an approximately 100-150 foot equilateral triangle with black metallic flake paint, lights at each corner, a center light 2-3 times larger, and a pulsating gold/transparent lava-lamp-like flow across the craft.
• Static electricity was felt, the air smelled like a lightning storm, and his Samsung phone overheated, displayed a heat warning, and drained its battery until the craft departed.
• The object hovered for about 2-3 minutes, then its center light flashed and it shot from ~100 feet to at least 30,000 feet in 2-3 seconds (calculated at roughly 10,000-15,000 ft/sec), departing east over the Atlantic Ocean.
• Borland was on a live phone call with a friend who was an 1811 federal officer at the time, who could potentially corroborate the call dropping off-record.
• David Grusch's informal testimony referenced a separate 300-foot triangular craft near Norfolk, Virginia that hovered over a worker's car and caused ionizing radiation damage making the paint milky.

Post-Sighting Fallout and Military Warnings

After the encounter, Borland received direct warnings from senior Air Force personnel and witnessed suspicious activity that signaled the seriousness of what he had seen.

• Borland's tech sergeant (a former C-130/C-17 load master) warned him by name: "Dylan, don't talk about this ever again. You have no idea what you got yourself into."
• An Air Force Raven described a C-17 landing at a North Dakota hangar late at night, surrounded by personnel for 5-6 hours to guard a box, admitting only a specific general before taking a different box out.
• After the encounter, Borland returned to his dorm room, smoked a cigarette, and played Borderlands or Call of Duty before resuming duty as a coping mechanism.
• Colleagues who recognized the significance of his testimony were offered protection and brought forward as witnesses, then subsequently ghosted him.

Whistleblowing Journey and Congressional Testimony

Borland and Jesse followed parallel disclosure paths through ICIG, AARO, ODNI, and Congress, with both alleging falsification of evidence and espionage-grade retaliation.

• Borland filed disclosures through AARO, the Inspector General, and Congress, and testified under oath before Congress in September 2025.
• He went to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) with an attorney in 2023 after Dave testified; Dave brought forward 40 other witnesses alongside him.
• In 2024, Congress passed and the president signed a law redefining "credible and urgent," protecting ICIG whistleblowers who disclose CIA and Department of Energy secrets from espionage prosecution (which carries the death penalty).
• The ICIG allegedly "extremely hinted" that humans are not in charge of the UFO program.
• Borland distinguishes recovered non-human craft from extraterrestrials, stating only that recovered craft were not made by humanity at the current time and place, and believes Dave's claim that non-human pilots were recovered.
• His polygraph involved flashing images, air horns, and counting backward from 100 by 7 (e.g., 100, 93, 86 instead of 79, 78), restarting after errors.
• Borland states his whistleblowing was motivated by people's safety and constitutional violations, not by UFOs themselves, and that the Constitution was "shredded."
• Jesse contacted Congress on March 3rd, sharing 60-70% of what he knew in a SCIF meeting with staffers, then went to AARO at the end of March at their direction.
• Jesse later visited ODNI on September 10, 2025, when Kloski was reportedly director, submitting his corrected MFR alongside AARO's allegedly false report.
• Jesse became a UAP whistleblower in his final year at DTRA (2023), motivated in part by Catholic faith and concern for a Legacy-program contact (Matthew Sullivan of "Vanguard," now deceased) whose job was lost about two weeks before UAP task force whistleblowers stated "people's lives were in danger."

AARO and ODNI Disputes

Both whistleblowers allege systemic misconduct by AARO and ODNI in handling their disclosures, including falsified documents, leaked classified material, and contradictory public statements.

• Jesse alleges AARO produced a false MFR misrepresenting what he told them, inserting details he never provided, then acknowledging the error in email and requesting corrections, which he made and saved.
• Per Jesse's account, ODNI then told Jeremy Corbell that Dylan had made a fourth drawing that never happened, contradicting AARO's own report and the classification guidance that listed the subject matter as unclassified.
• Tim Phillips, who succeeded Sean Kirkpatrick as AARO director, publicly acknowledged Dylan produced two drawings, that AARO was instructed on classification via a security classification guide, and that "triangles are real" and the U.S. wants to know where they come from.
• Jesse alleges ODNI's DIG leaked classified information and medical records to journalists Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, and that former IC IG Chuck McCullough (long-time NSA) now represents Corbell and Knapp.
• Borland drew an image of a non-human intelligence pyramid power source for ODNI at Jeremy Corbell's request.
• Borland asserts with certainty the US government holds high-resolution UAP imagery and cell phone video of triangles within 100 feet, and that he was personally redacted from related SAPs.
• ODNI allegedly threatened whistleblowers, falsified evidence related to treason and espionage charges, and itself leaked classified information to journalists.
• Within the last year, Borland claims the government falsified evidence against him to pursue a death penalty charge for treason, with journalists allegedly told about the falsification, and similar espionage charges were pursued against Dave, Sullivan, and Herrera.

Security Clearance Retaliation and Physical Threats

Jesse describes a structured retaliation scheme using SF-86 filings to neutralize whistleblowers professionally, alongside physical threats including brake-line tampering.

• Jesse describes an IC practice called "2 years use or lose," under which a clearance lapses if not actively used within two years of leaving the IC.
• A former employer can trigger administrative withdrawal by submitting an SF-86 update request to the old SSO; the individual then has a 30-day window to fill it out.
• Jesse alleges his former company filed such an SF-86 request, leaving his clearance status "undefined" and effectively neutralizing him professionally.
• Police confirmed 100% that Jesse's brake lines were cut shortly after leaving BAE following an outing with a colleague who disappeared for an hour; he maintains a dead man's switch in response.
• Whistleblowers are described as being "softly surrounded by spooky people" who recruit them onto boards and groups, turning them into a "castrated version" of their former selves.

UFO Programs, SAPs, and Connected Apparatus

The whistleblowers describe a layered architecture of special access programs and legacy crash retrieval efforts, with named individuals tying the apparatus to historical intelligence operations.

• WOOP (Wave) is described as a special access program used to hide UFO programs within other SAPs, with capabilities compartmentalized so people working side-by-side may be unaware of others' involvement in crash recoveries.
• "Rubik's Cube" is named as a reverse engineering program discussed in a SCIF, with ODNI agents allegedly improperly contacting Borland about its contents.
• Borland names CIA programs MK Ultra, Mockingbird, Midnight Climax, remote viewing, and Skinwalker at the Pentagon as all connected under one umbrella that also covers UFOs.
• Glenn Gaffney, CIA Director of Science and Technology, is named as one of the last leaders of the legacy crash retrieval program, who refused to speak about it.
• Approximately 2 other individuals at BAE Systems were fully read into the specific UFO program alongside Borland.
• A cynical theory discussed suggests AATIP/OAP/UAP Task Force functioned as red-teaming against the legacy UFO program, crowdsourcing intelligence from civilian scientists while the legacy program remains intact and newly immunized by the executive branch.
• Borland's best guess is that something happened in the mid-2000s that changed the game, possibly a breakthrough by China, Russia, a third party, or something arriving that was not being tracked.

Historical Figures and Theoretical Physics

The conversation names specific historical figures, patents, and theoretical physicists who allegedly connect the legacy UFO apparatus to mainstream and fringe science.

• Roscoe Hillenkoetter (first CIA director, retired Navy Admiral) is alleged to have been a Majestic 12 member briefed under Truman and frustrated about Roswell; his classmate Donald Keyhoe formed NICAP.
• Jim Latsky, a longtime DIA rocket scientist featured in Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, was in OAP from 2007-2012 and claimed to have breached the hull of a UFO craft in his book "New Insights."
• Salvatore Pais's 2018 Navy patents from Pax River cover room temperature superconductivity, a mass-reducing device, and a device that breaks the Schwinger limit (essentially how to build a UFO, per the guest).
• Theoretical physics work cited includes Bryce DeWitt (1950s superconductors/gravity), Stanley Deser and Richard Arnowitt at Princeton (gravitons), Ning Li (early 2000s AC superconductor graviton model), Thomas Townsend Brown (ionizing air with mega-volt electricity), and Ferris Williams (5D Maxwell equations linking electromagnetism and gravity).
• Oak Shannon was a Los Alamos project manager in an advanced theoretical physics group with Hal Putoff in the 1980s-1990s that openly studied how UFOs work; in 2024 NSA reportedly shut down Intel links and docs on JWIX.
• Bettis research lab in Pittsburgh was the first to develop nuclear power for the Navy in the 1950s and was tasked with nuclear satellites.
• BAE operates Falcon Works, described as BAE's equivalent to Lockheed's Skunk Works, with joint ventures covering material sciences, engineering, and engines.
• Dr. Ron Evans discussed Project Greenlow, a BAE anti-gravity research effort running approximately 10 years, which Jesse disputes being framed as debunked.
• Commander David Fraver, a participant in the 2004 Nimitz UFO incident, reportedly works at BAE.

Recent Incidents and Patterns

The witnesses tie current UAP incursions to historical patterns and specific geographic corridors, including publicly confirmed drone incursions over restricted military airspace.

• Unidentified drones infiltrated restricted airspace over Langley AFB for 17 consecutive nights in December 2023, involving a dozen or more drones primarily targeting NASA facilities, F-22 stealth aircraft, and NASA hangars.
• The Pentagon confirmed these incursions publicly in October 2024 stating "We have no idea what this is... no defense against them."
• The I-81 corridor (Norfolk/Langley AFB to Winchester to Harrisburg PA to DC to Pax River) has historically had recurring UFO sighting "flaps."
• Robert Hastings is referenced along with approximately 167+ whistleblowers at nuclear sites connecting UFOs to nuclear facilities.
• Hieroglyphic-like symbols reportedly appeared at Lonnie Zamora (1964), Roswell (1947), and Kecksburg (1965) incidents, with the host arguing such symbols may reflect cultural unfamiliarity rather than non-human origin.
• Borland's theory on the craft's plasma-like envelope is ionization of the atmosphere via an electromagnetic, possibly nuclear power source using positive/negative electrodes in the mega-volt range, consistent with Townsend Brown's experiments.
• The Trinity nuclear test occurred in New Mexico in July 1945, and approximately 20 days later a UFO-related crash reportedly happened in the same region.

MK Ultra, Anti-Gravity, and Three Hard-to-Attribute Phenomena

Jesse identifies three phenomena that he believes are hardest to attribute to terrestrial science, while tying government testing programs to documented mind-control research.

• Jesse identifies three phenomena hard to attribute in a terrestrial context: anti-gravity propulsion/gravity manipulation, MK Ultra/mind control, and directed energy.
• He cites high confidence in Thomas Townsend Brown as evidence for anti-gravity propulsion as the mechanism by which UAP craft fly.
• Jesse was placed on SSRIs for two months while at BAE with a full-scope polygraph, then enrolled in a program with flashing-image MRIs, including counting backwards from 100 by 7, and experienced suicidal ideation.
• The VA diagnosed him with PTSD for an Air Force imagery analyst role (drones) it simultaneously denied he had performed.
• A 2017 leaked call involving Kit Green (described as having run the CIA's "Weird Desk") and K. Randall referenced testing veterans, military, and government officials with experiences, including "hybrids," and discussed Puthoff and Uri Geller in Israel.
• He cites Martin Cannon's "The Controllers," arguing MK Ultra was used as a smoke screen for alien abduction phenomena.
• The Kona Blue documents allegedly show U.S. government admission of capability to implant false memories, manipulate brains, and compel actions without drugs.
• He argues only in the last couple of years have CIA and NSA officials attributed Havana Syndrome vestibular destabilization to Russian microwave weaponry.
• George Knapp allegedly testified under oath that Lockheed Martin had a craft intended for Robert Bigelow's BAASS, with material described as "not made here" stored at a California facility, until CIA's Glenn Gaffney intervened.

Simulation Theory and Quantum Speculation

The speaker proposes a simulation hypothesis for reality with two possible exit paths, drawing on parapsychology, false-memory research, and quantum interpretations of time.

• The speaker argues reality may be a simulation, with two possible exit paths: (1) consciousness and (2) high-energy physics including nuclear experimentation and particle accelerators.
• He cites the golden ratio and Fibonacci sequence as suggestive evidence that a simulation reuses code chunks across domains.
• Dr. Wilder Penfield's mind control research demonstrated that false memories can be implanted in mice.
• Parapsychology programs at Princeton, Stanford, and Duke describe a "constricted present" where binary outcomes (1 or 0) are fixed in the present while pasts and futures remain probable.
• Schrödinger's interpretation holds that measuring a particle in the present changes its past; speed and gravity are cited as proof that time can be manipulated.
• The speaker floated a hypothetical that future humans might be manipulating themselves to break into a particular position if time does not exist.
• He references Nick Bostrom's simulation hypothesis and combines it with exponentially progressing technology to argue life functions as a "forcing function" tied to virtues like patience and love.
• He views UAP beings as "a combination of everything," including spiritual elements, and explicitly states he has never seen evidence for the "extraterrestrial" label.
• Reported UFO capabilities include traveling 300 miles in one second from 80,000 feet sea level, 30,000 feet in two seconds, active camouflage, and beaming thoughts into people's heads.

NASA Langley Anomaly and Cultural Patterns

The speaker details a Google Maps anomaly tied to NASA Langley and discusses recurring cultural motifs, including the Mandela effect and traditional interpretations of the phenomenon.

• On Google Maps, individuals appearing to be intelligence or government employees tagged NASA Langley with imagery including labyrinths, pyramids, spirals, and unusual rock formations.
• The speaker screenshotted a labyrinth-shaped feature at the NASA Langley Hypersonic Facilities Complex roughly three years ago, which has since been erased and replaced with a photo of the facility itself.
• He tracked the taggers via LinkedIn and Facebook and described them as "wild."
• A dream about Flea (Red Hot Chili Peppers) texting him about UFOs was independently mirrored by his girlfriend's suspicion about Flea on her walk.
• The Mandela effect is cited via South Africans remembering Nelson Mandela's 1990s release from jail.
• He references a prior "weaponized interview" suggesting the phenomena could be called angels, demons, or jinn depending on tradition, noting Islam includes jinn that literally change variables in reality.
• He identifies as Catholic, mentioning Malachi Martin and Paul Thigpen, and references the Book of Enoch, Apocrypha, and Plato's allegory of the cave.

The Vanguard Initiative

Co-led with Matthew Brown, Vanguard is presented as a structured whistleblower protection organization explicitly contrasted with paid-speaker circuits and offering comprehensive support.

• Vanguard is co-led by the speaker and Matthew Brown to protect future whistleblowers and is explicitly contrasted with paid-speaker circuits like Michael Shurmer's reported $30,000 per speech.
• Core principles stated: truth, accountability, restitution, and Vanguard itself.
• Scope covers medical, financial, spiritual, and emotional support for whistleblowers and their families.
• Long-term goals include disclosure, acknowledgment, legislation, and restitution in all facets.
• Infrastructure plans include scrubbing internet history, paying for cleaning services, backup contacts, and dead man switches.
• A control group of both experiencers and whistleblowers has been assembled: Dave, Matt, Herrera, and Barber, intended to study psychological and medical impacts.
• Dave is working with Burleson's office to connect future whistleblowers with those who have already come forward.
• "Jeff" (explicitly clarified as not Sully) recently came on board with "I'm all in."
• The speaker warns future whistleblowers they will be doxed, have family harassed, and have personal photos pulled.
• The vanguard.org website is shared, also posted on Twitter, and the speaker urges listeners with disposable income to donate.

Disclosure Outlook and Allegations Against Contractors

The whistleblowers predict a disclosure process that confirms non-human intelligence while granting immunity and covering MK Ultra-style abuses, and identify key congressional allies.

• He predicts disclosure will likely amount to confirming humanity is not alone while granting immunity for past actions and attempting to cover up criminal conduct potentially including MK Ultra-style mind control and Iran-Contra-style abuses.
• Projected disclosure dates have shifted: first 2026, then 2027, now possibly 2034, generally framed as mid-2020s.
• Lou Alzando stated "time is not a luxury that we can afford" and "the time has come" for collective disclosure conversation.
• He calls on attorneys to sue Lockheed Martin via the Securities Exchange Commission over the alleged craft.
• He identifies Representatives Burlison, Luna, and Moskowitz as congressional members working the UAP issue.
• He claims he is 99.9% certain of an agreement between terrestrial governments and non-human intelligence but cannot claim 100%, while 100% certain that non-governmental transnational organizations deal with UFOs without naming them.
• He does not believe a Blue Beam false flag scenario will happen but is concerned, and notes he is not aware of any government entity stating named whistleblowers (himself, Dave, Matt, Lou Straten, Herrera, Barber) have lied.

Philosophy, Disclosure, and Faith

The speakers tie their disclosures to a broader philosophical framework including Catholic theology, simulation theory, and a critique of intelligence-community disclosure norms.

• The speaker states the "number one rule of intelligence" is: if you don't understand something, you don't disclose it, and uses this to argue for open-source hypothesizing about UFO phenomena.
• Most past whistleblowers either go "full tilt" into the subject or remain publicly unknown in employment limbo.
• The speaker and Matt are trying to explain "ontological shock" to the scientific and medical communities, warning the phenomenon will occur.
• He identifies as Catholic, referencing Malachi Martin, the Book of Enoch, Plato's cave allegory, and the simulation hypothesis (Bostrom).
• He explicitly rejects the "extraterrestrial" label and states he is 99.9% certain of a terrestrial-non-human agreement.
• Both speakers call for holding the government accountable, citing an "endless laundry list" of reasons including constitutional violations and retaliation against witnesses.

Hip-Hop Interlude and Closing

The interview closes with an extended hip-hop discussion and a call to action through Vanguard.org, blending music preference with whistleblower advocacy.

• The speaker's top rappers include M. Nause Jakus, Andre 3000, B-run, and Tupac (with the fifth slot not definitively named); the co-host praised this as a "great top five."
• Jay-Z is acknowledged as amazing but noted for recent "not so great reasons."
• Kanye and Dr. Dre are cited as notable producers; Rock Kim is described as an underrated pure rapper.
• Biggie is praised for lyrics and flow, while Tupac embodies "more raw passion."
• Nas is argued to belong on the list because of his album Illmatic, especially given his back-to-back releases with a peer.
• Ice Cube receives an honorable mention for "disgusting" (excellent) late-career songs, and is identified as a former NWA member.
• The speaker mentions performing a Capital Cities-produced remix that combines Pink Floyd's "Breathe" with Tupac's vocals, describing it as "California driving-down-the-highway convertible music."
• The episode closes with Vanguard.org shared for donations and whistleblower support, alongside the Capital Cities remix described as "California convertible music."