[@JesseMichels] "There's A UFO Under the Ranch!" - Skinwalker Owner Breaks Silence

Link: https://youtu.be/uYyXpx7ADJQ

Duration: 199 min

Transcript: Download plain text

Short Summary

Brandon Fugal, a 53-year-old Mormon commercial real estate executive and owner of Skinwalker Ranch since 2016, joins the American Alchemy podcast for an in-depth interview covering more than a decade of UAP investigations. The conversation details engineered materials extracted from beneath the mesa, a spherical "bubble" energy anomaly, the recovery of a direwolf-like carcass at Dry Gulch Creek, and his public confrontations with former AARO head Sean Kirkpatrick. Fugal reflects on how the work transformed him from skeptic to experiencer and reshaped his faith.

Key Quotes

1. "It's a an invisible roughly spherical energy anomaly formally identified and named in season 6. Believed to extend both above and below ground and treated by the team as the likely unifying explanation for many previously separate phenomena, GPS failures, signal interference, instrument malfunctions." (01:45:31)
2. "that 1.6 6 gigahertz signal appeared. All of a sudden, our caretaker ends up being brought to his knees, has to be run to the airport or not, run to the doctor, to the hospital." (02:57:57)
3. "when, interestingly, he was right across from me, seated just like you are across from me for two and a half hours in a confidential briefing in 2018. 18 in April 2018" (02:39:18)
4. "something had manipulated that image to pull letters together completely out of sequence. No explanation. Pull them together in a millisecond to form the words I living." (02:51:59)
5. "finds that the direct match to that jawbone, the direct match is a direwolf species that's long extinct." (02:46:02)

Detailed Summary

Interviewee Background

Brandon Fugal, a 53-year-old commercial real estate executive and owner of Skinwalker Ranch since 2016, appears on the American Alchemy podcast to reflect on more than a decade of UAP investigations. The conversation traces his personal transformation from scientific skeptic to firsthand experiencer.

• Fugal represents approximately 200 properties across 5 counties and 30+ cities, routinely working 18–20 hours Monday through Friday.
• He is a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who has never smoked, drunk alcohol, or tasted coffee — a discipline rooted in a fifth-grade pact with his best friend Chris Lee (now a leading U.S. radiation oncologist in the Pacific Northwest) to uphold the LDS Word of Wisdom.
• Fugal consumes 200–300 ounces of Diet Mountain Dew per day, which he notes lists orange juice and carbonated water as its first two ingredients.
• He is an early angel investor in Colossal Biosciences, the genetic-engineering firm behind revived direwolf pups.
• Fugal describes the investigation as having reshaped him from skeptic/faith-questioning to experiencer with strengthened religious conviction.

Skinwalker Ranch Operations

The 512-acre private parcel in the Uintah Basin of northeastern Utah sits sequestered within the Ute War reservation and has operated under armed guard since 1996. Fugal describes a privately funded, year-round investigation that dwarfs the documentary footprint most viewers see.

• Fugal acquired the property on April Fool's Day 2016, originally greeted by Bigelow-era security carrying sidearms and animal parts hung from the fence line as a Native American spiritual perimeter.
• He calls it a "private Area 51" and "Mecca for the paranormal," equipped with 80+ surveillance cameras, multifysics edge-processing boxes, an on-site data center handling terabytes of data, a 24/7/365 live web portal, and an "Insiders" program that crowdsources private participants.
• Documentary filming occupies only about 14 weeks per year; the year-round investigation is privately funded by Fugal.

Mesa Drilling and Subsurface Investigations

Ground-penetrating radar on the Skinwalker mesa identified unusual material and voids that prompted a multi-year drilling campaign, with rumors of tunnels dating to the Meyers era and Bigelow ownership period. Every drilling expert brought in suffered equipment malfunctions, yet engineered material was still recovered.

• Tungsten carbide steel drill bits were rendered completely unusable across drilling operations, yet the team still extracted engineered material hundreds of feet inside the mesa.
• A 1969 aerial photo shows a teardrop-shaped, dithered/smoothed region directly above the GPR anomaly, while most aerial survey records for 1964–1969 are reportedly deleted.
• A 1964 nickel with patina was recovered at the drill site, though archaeologist Chris Roberts noted that dropping current-date coins is a common practice for marking territory at archaeological sites.
• Ground-penetrating radar confirmed subsurface voids and a debris field of material verified by independent analysis as outside natural soil composition.
• Fugal likens the subsurface investigation to a medical biopsy, hoping to extract — potentially intact — a Stargate or dimension-related technology.

The Bubble Anomaly

Season 6 formally identified "the bubble," a roughly spherical, invisible energy anomaly mapped with LiDAR that extends above and below ground. The team treats it as the unifying cause of GPS failures, signal interference, and instrument malfunctions across the property.

• Rockets launched at the bubble have bounced off its boundary, fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters have had instruments go haywire at its edge, and UAP have appeared "almost on call" when the bubble is probed.
• The team interprets the bubble's apparent response as a possible defensive mechanism.
• GPS malfunctions are described as repeatable and abundant, linked speculatively to possible time manipulation given GPS's reliance on time-based signal triangulation.

Engineered Materials and Exotic Elements

X-ray diffraction analysis of extracted material revealed atomic arrangements described as making "no sense," including heavy elements shared with other UAP material investigations. Bore holes beneath the mesa have repeatedly struck metal and manufactured objects.

• X-ray diffraction revealed Europium and other heavy elements in atomic arrangements making "no sense"; Europium also surfaced in David Grusch's UAP material investigations.
• Engineered, manufactured ceramic tiles resembling space shuttle heat shields with self-repeating electromagnetic signatures were recovered from hundreds of feet down.
• Bore holes repeatedly struck exotic elements including europium and thallium alongside conventional metals.

Frontier Science Personnel and Concepts

A small cadre of scientists has driven the theoretical and investigative work, including Eric Bard, who first identified the electromagnetic signature correlated with events, and theorists working on biologically traversable wormholes.

• Eric Bard served as principal investigator and chief scientist for approximately 10 years, first identifying the electromagnetic signature correlated with events.
• Bard later replicated smartphone anomalies using a large neodymium magnet (a Season 1 experiment Fugal says ~99% of viewers misunderstood).
• Jim Latsky, described as a DIA rocket scientist, authored scientific papers on biologically traversable wormholes and quantum teleportation.
• Eric Davis authored papers on biologically traversable wormholes producing electromagnetic fallout and the book "Frontiers of Propulsion Science."
• John Wheeler's "Wheeler tunnels" concept is invoked as theoretical grounding for portal/wormhole speculation on the property.

Border Oil and Gas Drilling

Within months of the mesa extraction, an oil and gas company ramrodded permits through the county despite the team's formal notice of disagreement. Fugal is now in active legal action and suspects the operator may be a cutout shell company.

• The permit covers roughly 10 acres directly on the border of Fugal's property and closest to the drill site, leased from an adjacent owner who controls over 1,000 acres — a choice Fugal says appears non-coincidental.
• The company arrived with millions of dollars of equipment and personnel in what Fugal calls the most reckless aggressive effort he has seen.

Military and Government Overwatch

Unmarked helicopters and high-altitude government aircraft have repeatedly appeared over the ranch during experiments, with Fugal describing a faction of the military-industrial complex tied to UAP topics. Special access programs have manifested at the ranch in documented monitoring efforts.

• Unmarked Blackhawk helicopters appeared during experiments despite an active NOTAM restricting the airspace, accompanied by unknown non-transponding craft that even the attorney general and governor could not get answers about.
• A National Science Foundation Gulfstream 5 jet valued at ~$50 million was caught multiple times running sophisticated surveys above 40,000 feet directly over the "triangle" on the same day a former Utah governor visited the ranch for a briefing.
• Fugal believes the unmarked helicopters are tasked by a military-industrial complex faction tied to UAP topics.

Phenomena Documented

Observers report a wide range of recurring anomalous activity around the mesa, including transmedium objects that pass through solid rock and a persistent microwave-range signal that environmental testing firms cannot identify.

• Observers report orbs and spheres around the mesa, including transmedium objects that pass through solid rock.
• Fugal claims helicopters have escorted UAP into the surrounding mountains, suggesting coordinated human/non-human interaction.
• A recurring signal is repeatedly received at 1.6 GHz in the ultra-high-frequency microwave range; leading environmental testing firms with federal government and private-sector experience have been unable to identify its source or any radioactive origin.
• During the Bigelow era, multiple cattle were dissected and drained of blood in broad daylight with no trace evidence, no tracks, and no scavenger activity.
• Biologist Ben Woodruff documents dramatically anomalous decay rates on affected carcasses.
• A healthy calf collapsed near Homestead One as a high-speed camera captured an object above it; radiation was detected off the carcass afterward, and the body remained untouched by scavengers for a year.
• Fugal himself witnessed a silver-grayish disc roughly 100 feet above the mesa that performed maneuvers defying conventional explanation for about 20 seconds; smartphones drained rapidly during the event, converting him from skeptic to "experiencer" within minutes.

Medical Consequences

Multiple team members have suffered serious medical episodes correlated with drilling, signal events, and UAP sightings, with hundreds of pages of medical data analyzed by outside experts remaining unexplained.

• Thomas Winterton (working for Fugal since April 2016, 10+ years) was hospitalized with fluid in the back of his head and his scalp separated from his skull; hundreds of pages of medical data remain unexplained.
• Caretaker Tom Lewis suffered a cardiac episode coincident with drilling below the mesa and the appearance of the 1.6 GHz signal; doctors found no cause.
• A former president of a large Hell's Angels chapter, serving security near Homestead 3, was found standing upright but frozen/catatonic for approximately 10 minutes, then hospitalized for weeks unable to leave his bed; a 20-second UFO was simultaneously observed and every smartphone drained from nearly full charge to zero.
• An aggressive two-helicopter experiment "a couple of years ago" went wrong, with all instrumentation behaving anomalously; Fugal says "we were lucky no one died."
• Fugal notes that correlation does not imply causation but argues the volume of correlations justifies examining the data differently; he observes that people with bigger egos seem "hit or tagged" more often.

Hitchhiker Effect and Home Anomalies

The "hitchhiker effect" is documented as phenomena following team members home, manifesting as orbs, craft, crypto-type beings, and poltergeist activity. Fugal says he and his wife will never allow their now-adult children to set foot on the property due to the harms he has seen.

• After the aggressive helicopter experiment, Fugal's wife Kristen (a Catholic) had her wedding ring vanish from a jewelry dish; after praying the rosary, she envisioned it inside a hotel robe pocket months unworn, where it was found.
• Their Shih Tzu Arthur (with the family 8+ years and normally docile) began growling nightly around 3:00 a.m. at an unseen presence in the bedroom corner.
• "Trickster" activity — objects moved by unseen forces — stopped abruptly after a spiritual person saged and blessed the home.
• Thomas Winterton's home subsequently experienced vehicles going haywire, security breaches, and fires, all documented on camera.

Beyond Skinwalker and Bradshaw Ranch

The spinoff series "Beyond Skinwalker" ran for three seasons and expanded the investigation to Bradshaw Ranch in Sedona, Arizona, where similar mountain-entering phenomena are reported.

• Two investigators coordinated alongside Dr. Travis Taylor and Eric Bard at Bradshaw Ranch in Sedona, Arizona.
• Bradshaw Ranch featured transmedium UFOs entering and exiting a restricted "secret mountain" patrolled by non-descript armed gunmen with cameras; Ross Coulthart investigated the site.
• Similar phenomena are reported at four other mountains worldwide: Mount Zale (Australia), Mount Hayes (Alaska), Mount Purido/Spain (Yangani), and Mount Shasta (California); helicopters have been seen escorting UAP into these mountains.
• Mount Wilson, owned by Robert Bigelow alongside Skinwalker Ranch starting ~1996, yielded buried fried computer servers and an underground rail system — interpreted as evidence of a cover-up.

Dr. Travis Taylor's Pentagon Role

Dr. Taylor entered the investigation as a History Channel-installed skeptic for season 1 and became an experiencer within his first year, ultimately being identified as chief scientist of the Pentagon UAP task force.

• Taylor was eventually identified as chief scientist of the Pentagon UAP task force, a role catalyzed by Skinwalker work he could not disclose to the team because of national security oaths.
• Some team members felt betrayed when the role surfaced, with the head of security reportedly angry; Taylor has since sustained injuries attributed to a "hitchhiker effect."

Dry Gulch Creek Direwolf Carcass

Sherman-era accounts described orbs of light and giant wolf-like creatures heading toward Dry Gulch Creek, an area never previously investigated scientifically. The team discovered a decomposing carcass with jawbone DNA tied to an extinct direwolf species.

• Biologist Ben Woodruff identified the jawbone as a direct genetic match to an extinct direwolf species dated to ~125,000 BC.
• DNA sent to Colossal Biosciences matched greywolf for some portions but was mostly inconclusive/unidentifiable; the find predated Colossal's two revived direwolf pups.
• No established wolf populations or large wolf-like species exist in Utah, making the Sherman sightings and carcass anomalous.

AARO and Sean Kirkpatrick Controversy

Host Jesse characterizes current AARO posture as "Blue Book 2.0" or "Condon Report 2.0," accusing it of professionally gaslighting the public and Congress. The dispute centers on former AARO head Sean Kirkpatrick's alleged denials of prior Skinwalker contact.

• Kirkpatrick is accused of being the likely sole source for a Wall Street Journal piece attributing 1967 Malmstrom nuclear base UFO incidents to a "non-nuclear EMP" — a technology that did not exist at the time.
• Kirkpatrick claimed no interest in UAP before 2022 and no prior briefing on Skinwalker or meeting with Jesse; Jesse disputes this, stating Kirkpatrick sat across from him for 2.5 hours in an April 2018 confidential Skinwalker briefing with a sophisticated keynote and video assets.
• Jesse responded by posting photographic receipts on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook of Kirkpatrick's attendance; Steven Greenstreet of the New York Post was criticized for a piece portraying Jesse as a liar predating any History Channel documentary.

Command Center Anomaly

During sensor malfunctions and lights flickering across thousands of intrusion events, Eric Bard addressed whatever intelligence might be present — and the screen responded with a message captured on video.

• Eric Bard said aloud, "If you have something to tell me, tell me. If you have something to show me, show me"; the screen morphed and reassembled letters in milliseconds to read "I living," captured via screen capture before the display restored.
• Jesse estimated a one-in-a-trillion chance of that occurring by accident.
• Jesse's editor's screen froze and went static while editing the team's first Skinwalker vlog, filmed four years earlier.

Baltic Sea Anomaly

Jesse referenced the Baltic Sea anomaly between Sweden and Finland, which he visited with treasure hunter Dennis Aspen, noting GPS failures and electromagnetic anomalies around the object — phenomena consistent with Skinwalker reports.

Historical Context

The investigation builds on decades of prior research, including the NIDS era and Pentagon-funded black budget programs studying Skinwalker Ranch that spanned years and spent tens of millions of dollars.

• NIDS (National Institute of Discovery Sciences) operated at the ranch in the 1990s and into the early 2000s, later morphing into the officially funded OAP program backed by Harry Reid.
• George Knapp testified before Congress that Lockheed Martin attempted to divest UFO material to Bigelow Aerospace in 2008.
• Jim Ryder, then VP of Lockheed Martin space systems, gave a public speech discussing djinn, fairies, extrasensory perception, and "the veil thinning"; Bigelow later shifted focus toward consciousness studies and life-after-death research.
• Archaeologist Chris Roberts documented over 8,000 years of artifacts showing the property was used as a ceremonial/gathering site rather than a main dwelling.
• Junior Hicks, who worked with Fugal within weeks of the ranch acquisition and consulted on the first one or two seasons before dying, kept detailed files of hundreds of Utah UFO sightings dating to 1950, recorded in The Utah UFO Display.
• Documented incidents stretch back to the 1930s (cattle mutilations, strange activity), continuing through the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s with credible witnesses including law enforcement — almost a hundred years of record.

Faith and Disclosure

Fugal framed the present as an "age of disclosure," with congressional hearings and government acknowledgment of UAP cited as inspiring Steven Spielberg's Disclosure Day film. He argued Mormonism/LDS theology is uniquely prepared for disclosure because it teaches humans are not alone in the universe.

• The team spans agnostics, vocal atheists, and believers who have found common ground, and Fugal explicitly denied trying to prove God through the investigation.
• Jesse floated a rumored Mormon connection to the UFO legacy program with BYU as a possible feeder, quipping the CIA is "Mormons, Marines, and MBAs."
• Nearby Utah assets cited include the Utah Test and Training Range (largest inland U.S. range), Hill AFB, Dugway Proving Grounds, UVU (with a degreed cybersecurity program), BYU, University of Utah, and Utah State's Space Dynamics Lab (Mars rover work) — all within roughly one hour of the ranch.
• Jesse called for whistleblowers to bring data rather than secondhand accounts, opposed Schumer amendment provisions allowing government eminent domain over private UAP materials while supporting whistleblower protections.
• Jesse argued the observed technology is so advanced that assuming humans could bring it down would be arrogant.

Philosophical and Cultural Framework

Fugal and his team interpret the phenomena through a mix of scientific, spiritual, and cross-cultural lenses, with multiple traditions identifying the activity as analogous to "jin" or related intelligences.

• Fugal hypothesizes a "cosmic zoo" scenario in which Earth is monitored by diverse intelligences with different origins and agendas, some malevolent and some benign.
• Multiple cultural traditions have told the team the data shows what they are dealing with is a "jin" or analogous phenomena.
• Navajo tradition warns against looking toward the property; locals have been instructed for generations that phenomena would follow or attach to them.
• Fugal references Roger Shadock's book "Forbidden Knowledge," framing the resistance to disclosure as mythological "holiest of holies" knowledge guarded by demigod beings.
• He cites the Antikythera mechanism as an example of ancient advanced computing (recovered from a shipwreck, dating hundreds of years before Christ, capable of tracking lunar phases).
• A month-long string of bad events after his first ranch visit — including an armed gunman entering his LA building around 6:00 a.m., which he escaped by barricading himself in a bathroom — was arrested only after prayer, reinforcing his belief in a higher power despite describing himself as "somewhat agnostic but wanting to experience God."