[@JesseMichels] Why NASA Studies This Man (He Attracts UFOs!)

January 6, 2026 · 199 min read

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Duration: 207 min

Short Summary

Chris Bledsoe, a former North Carolina homebuilder and commercial pilot, recounts his transformative 2007 UFO encounter that mysteriously cured his 18-year Crohn's disease, leading to nearly two decades of studying orb phenomena he identifies as "fractals of consciousness" connected to spiritual entities rather than extraterrestrial craft. The episode explores his controversial connections with self-proclaimed NASA time traveler Timothy Taylor, Thomas Townsend Brown's CIA-backed anti-gravity research involving exotic metals from Zanesville, Ohio containing 51 elements and embedded human DNA, and claims about a multi-layered government cover-up suppressing recovered UFO materials and patents for memory-erasing technology.

Key Quotes

"My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real." (00:00:14)
"It was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified higher than the nuclear bomb." (00:22:46)
"They know a lot more than we know than we think they do." (00:03:06)
"We have no idea how reality works." (01:42:25)

Detailed Summary

Chris Bledsoe's Transformative 2007 Encounter

Chris Bledsoe, a North Carolina homebuilder who constructed approximately 100 homes per year for nearly two decades, experienced his life-changing UFO encounter on January 8, 2007, near the Cape River while fishing with his son. In broad daylight around 5:10 PM, he witnessed two flaming red-orange glowing balls of fire approximately 40 feet in diameter, hovering side-by-side a couple hundred feet above trees and 300 yards away.

Bledsoe experienced "missing time," believing only 20 minutes had passed while walking up a hill, but 4 hours had actually elapsed.
His chronic Crohn's disease—suffered for 18 years with up to 20 bathroom visits daily—completely disappeared after this encounter.
He subsequently wrote the book "UFO of God" documenting his experiences and became a pariah in his fundamentalist Christian community in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
His first encounter involved a translucent cow that knocked him to the ground, followed by a glowing woman hovering approximately 3 feet off the ground who asked "You know why I'm here?"
From 2007 to 2012, he had zero photographic or video evidence despite going out every night with a camera, as the phenomenon vanished whenever he pulled out his recording equipment.
After announcing on Easter Saturday 2012 that he would never speak about his experiences again, the apparition appeared and instructed him to continue sharing.

Timothy Taylor: The NASA Mission Controller and Time Traveler

Timothy Taylor, introduced by religious studies professor Diana Pulka, is described as a NASA mission controller who has worked at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the 1980s, with claimed credentials spanning Area 51, the CIA, and direct collaboration with Elon Musk. Taylor reportedly told Bledsoe he had been at a dinner table with the president and claimed to be a time traveler working for what he calls "the hammer" (an angelic figure from Philip K. Dick's "The Adjustment Bureau").

Taylor authored the autobiography "Launch Fever" documenting his aerospace career and allegedly flew cargo jets between Florida and Nassau, Bahamas, as part of a secret time travel group called the Nassau Group.
He reportedly operates "Dragon Control" at Cape Canaveral and controls all rocket launches, with ties to the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and Aerospace Corporation.
Many Aerospace employees are allegedly NRO personnel who carry Blackberries, according to Bledsoe's claims.
Taylor took Bledsoe and others through Kennedy Space Center and maintained YouTube content showing deep NASA access.
He reportedly briefed President Barack Obama on Bledsoe's experiences and gave him a napkin from Camp David with the presidential seal, which Bob Maguire (a former intelligence operative) confirmed could not be faked.
Tim Taylor warned that the voltage in these phenomena is approximately 33 million volts, which could be lethal if they get too close.
Taylor helped Linda Brown (Thomas Townsend Brown's daughter) write her book and allegedly formed a secret time travel group with Thomas Townsend Brown as president.

Thomas Townsend Brown and Anti-Gravity Research

The episode explores Thomas Townsend Brown, born in 1905 in Zanesville, Ohio, who discovered anti-gravity in the 1950s through asymmetric capacitor research. Brown worked at Martin Vega the year Skunk Works formed, knew Curtis LeMay and Bill Lear, and was backed by the highest levels of the CIA and aerospace establishment.

Declassified documents by Harry Turner (head of Australia's nuclear program) confirmed UNC Chapel Hill's deep involvement in this research.
Charles Berz, NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, left NASA to develop propellantless gravity-based propulsion derivatives of Brown's work.
Jacques Cornier, a French aerospace representative, gave a deathbed confession stating Brown's experiments worked at the Paris Montgolfier facility in 1956.
Brown allegedly possessed pieces of exotic metal from recovered UFOs that he showed to Chris Dunn for analysis.
The episode claims zero gravity technology was used to bond ceramic to metal with embedded human DNA, which later enabled modern hip joints and medical devices that no longer fail.
Uri Geller was reportedly shown a piece of metal from a crashed UFO by Werner von Braun.

Exotic Materials from Zanesville, Ohio

Taylor escorted people to retrieve recovered UFO metal in Zanesville, Ohio, where Bledsoe claims an exotic metal sample was analyzed. The exotic metal from recovered UFOs contained 51 elements—far beyond the approximately 15 elements humans can typically blend—and allegedly contained human DNA and plutonium.

Microscope analysis showed one piece appearing as a swirling universe with galaxies and another composed of thousands of self-moving square blocks.
The exotic metal behaves differently in zero gravity compared to ground level, always seeking energy and connection.
Scientists concluded that consciousness is instantaneous and not electromagnetic, and that thoughts create everything.
The phenomenon claims the metal cannot be fabricated on Earth and is not extraterrestrial in origin.

Consciousness Experiments at Monuro Institute

Bledsoe participated in consciousness-UFO detection experiments at Monuro Institute, where he was placed in a copper-walled Faraday cage basement lab while Dr. Thompson from New York with a neuroscience PhD monitored him. During the experiments, every time Bledsoe pointed to the ceiling after sensing a UFO, cameras outside filmed something above the building—confirmed across multiple instances.

Scientists concluded that consciousness is instantaneous and not electromagnetic, and that thoughts create everything.
Bledsoe claims the phenomenon knows thoughts in advance and cannot be fooled.
Wilder Penfield's research was referenced, demonstrating no way to distinguish false memories from true memories.
The phenomenon has a "trickster" quality—intentionally misleading observers to redirect them toward a different path, likened to Jacques Vallée's work.

Medical Applications and Vivx Biotechnologies

Timothy Taylor's company Vivx Biotechnologies was sold for $88 million and was creating a biograph (sometimes called viograph) based on recovered metal from UFOs. The first biograph operation in the United States was performed on a Spanish woman with bone cancer in her thigh.

Surgeons removed two inches of bone, wrapped it with the biograph material, and injected stem cells.
The patient had her bone completely regrow and was walking again with no pain within 60 days.
Bledsoe, a carpenter by trade, was given medical papers on stem cell research to read and tasked with drawing diagrams of whatever he visualized—work he believed was NASA-affiliated.
The biograph technology was developed from materials recovered from UFO incidents.

Orb Phenomena and the Nature of the Phenomenon

Bledsoe describes orbs as connected to human thoughts, caring and loving beings that he believes are "fractals of consciousness" or another term for God/the creator. He claims orbs appear in his house about every day, flying through rooms. At Contact in the Desert in Palm Springs, Bledsoe predicted one hour in advance that three orange orbs would appear at 9:45 PM, and they appeared exactly as predicted under cloudy, rainy conditions.

At a Capitol Hill Club event, an orb performed figure-8s over the Capitol/White House for 45 minutes, witnessed by Donna Roberts (International Space Station), Eric Zidak (PG&E), Tracy McIll (DoD/DIA analyst), and others.
Bledsoe takes 500-1,000 people outside at UFO events and witnesses beings with wings, orange glowing entities (up to 20 at a time) flying 25 feet over heads and appearing out of thin air.
In November 2024, following Israel-Iran conflict deescalation and F-35 deployment to Poland, orbs appeared all over Europe allegedly delivering a message of "stop."
He claims consciousness is "one big unified field containing everything from ghosts to aliens to angels to humans."
Historical UFO reports from the 1700s-1800s described "sky ships," including flying sailing ships with glowing sails over London.

The Moon's Artificial Nature and Origins

The episode references Gordon McDonald (Eisenhower's space advisor) who said the moon would only make sense if hollow. Apollo seismometers placed on the moon during Apollo 11 reportedly caused it to "ring like a bell," suggesting a hollow interior.

The moon is tidally locked, 1/400th the size of the sun but 400 times closer to Earth—a near-perfect geometric relationship.
Tim Taylor reportedly said the moon "wasn't there by accident—it was set there or towed into place."
Bledsoe believes the moon affects human thoughts and biological processes including lunacy, women's cycles, and ecological processes.
The geometric relationship between the sun and moon is cited as evidence of artificial placement.

Rocket Launch Surveillance System

The discussion reveals details about what Bledsoe claims is a multi-layered rocket surveillance system: ground-based tracking cameras follow rockets up to approximately 50,000 feet before images become blurry, then a WB-57 aircraft (operated out of Houston with NRO contacts) intercepts with seven cameras up to approximately 100,000 feet, and an F-104 Starfighter with seven or eight cameras takes over until satellites continue tracking.

Rockets allegedly attract UFOs that inspect them every time one is launched, particularly if weapons are on board.
Every time a rocket goes up and comes back down, "something came with them"—described as an intelligent phenomenon or spirit.
Access to Cape Canaveral's crew quarters is extremely restricted because of this phenomenon.
The WB-57 aircraft operates out of Houston with NRO contacts and carries seven cameras for surveillance.

Spiritual Encounters and Apocalyptic Prophecies

A luminous feminine presence that Bledsoe encountered communicated about humanity's deep moral decay, cycles of civilizational collapse, judgment, the apocalypse, and renewal. She used names including Diana, Artemis, Isis, Hathor, Hera, and the Virgin Mary across different cultures throughout history, explaining that religions wrongly think they have exclusive ownership of God.

A 2012 prophecy states that when the blue star Regulus appears red on the horizon at dawn while the Sphinx gazes eastward, it will usher in new knowledge for humanity and expose darkness.
Bledsoe draws connections between his encounters and biblical accounts—Saul on the road to Damascus blinded by a flashing ball of light, Ezekiel's vision of beings with animal faces, and Daniel chapter 10's description of an angel in gleaming glass-like form.
The word "apocalypse" etymologically means to reveal that which has been hidden, not destruction.
St. Francis of Assisi's 13th-century experience at Mount Alverna featured Brother Leo witnessing an angel described in the original Greek as a "flaming torch," suggesting a UFO encounter with stigmata wounds interpreted as electromagnetic damage.

Government Connections and Notable Figures

Bledsoe claims connections with multiple government and research figures: Jim Semivan (former Director of Operations at the CIA, characterized as running the whole northern hemisphere), John Alexander (described as probably the number one paranormal researcher for the US government, active for many years, who conducted research in 90-92 countries), and Howal (a high-ranking NASA official who visited Bledsoe's home starting in 2008 and died in 2019 after falling and hitting his head).

Dr. Anna Brady Est claims at least 200 mainstream scientists are now working on UAP research, up from very few who would previously discuss it.
Trump designated NASA as a spy agency, which Bledsoe describes as confirmation of what had already been the case for decades.
Jack Parsons reportedly saw what could be described as a Nordic alien woman during rocket tests in the Mojave Desert in California.
Diana Pulka, a religious studies professor, introduced Timothy Taylor to Bledsoe.
Bledsoe claims he has been told multiple times he is "doing disclosure" and getting ahead of official narratives.

YouTube Suppression and Censorship Allegations

Bledsoe discusses his Danny Jones podcast video about Cape Canaveral that was allegedly algorithmically suppressed despite doing 50k views per day before being cut off, eventually accumulating 1.2–1.3 million total views. A Google representative reportedly told him the only comparable case was David Grusch's UFO video, and neither video broke YouTube rules or triggered internal red flags—the suppression came from above the rep's access level.

A CIA contact in Washington investigated the video throttling and found possible obstruction.
Bledsoe claims to have seen US patents for technology capable of transmitting chemicals through radio waves and erasing memories, describing the patents as "stuffed away."
The memory-erasing technology can allegedly shoot a chemical or drug at a target from 100 yards away.
Danny Jones reportedly cut a portion of their interview discussing this "neuralizer" device.
Bledsoe alleges NASA or Google sent word to suppress content discussing technology at mission control, claiming censorship has cost significant book sales.
Rob Jones found a Google Trends spike for "Immaculate Constellation" that was subsequently deleted.
Immaculate Constellation was revealed in the November 2024 Shelonburgger testimony hearing.

Science, Reality, and Disclosure Philosophy

Chris argues that science is "the map, not the territory"—a representation of reality rather than reality itself, noting that humans are limited measurement sensors with a very restricted scope of perception. He references the Mandela Effect example of "Grand Central Station" vs. the actual name "Grand Central Terminal" as a personal experience of collective memory discrepancy.

Bledsoe describes his current main focus as finding the "Rosetta Stone" of communication with the UAP phenomenon.
He claims real-time communication can be achieved through light sensors and quantum AI computers, with an estimated timeline of 4-5 years for breakthrough communication.
He has access to two quantum AI computers for this research.
The phenomenon is believed to actively communicate through frequency and light pulses.
Consciousness was described as instantaneous and responsive to thought.
Quantum mechanics concepts including retrocausality (spooky action across time) were discussed.

Vatican and Religious Connections

Diana at the Vatican reportedly sent Bledsoe several paintings, and Pope Francis's message through Vatican contacts was that "they know that they're angels" whose energy can harm humans if they get excited. Tim Taylor reportedly visited the Vatican archives before Diana Pulka and was celebrated at the Vatican Observatory.

Tim Taylor's Vatican connections involved accessing historical archives.
Pope Francis reportedly conveyed that the phenomenon's energy can harm humans if they become excited.
Vatican contacts confirmed the entities are understood as angelic rather than extraterrestrial.

World Forum and Public Events

The World Forum, created by McKill Gorbachoff in 1995-2000, is being reconvened for five years until 2030 with speakers including Abby Lo and Dr. Diana Hennessy Pal, featuring approximately 30-40 speakers. Bledsoe was invited to speak at the World Forum and host a skywatch event March 14-17 with around 40 people.

Bledsoe has been invited to participate in a forthcoming reveal involving hidden discoveries related to the Egyptian pyramids, with Egyptian antiquities authorities involved, expected the following year.
Previous researchers conducted synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the Khafre chamber of the Giza pyramid.
The World Forum event runs for five years through 2030.

Family Backlash and Personal Challenges

Bledsoe experienced severe community backlash from 2007 to 2012, with two-thirds of his family stopping contact and accusing him of "messing with the devil." Family members attempted to have his children removed from his custody, his son left home at age 17, and teachers questioned his children's wellbeing.

He made a vow to "prove them all wrong" and has worked on revealing his spiritual truth for 19 years.
He maintains that the government tried to make him believe in flying saucers and little green men, but he insisted the phenomenon was spiritual, not alien.
Bledsoe drove 13 hours unannounced from Cape Canaveral to his home and upon arriving, immediately knew his 90-pound Labrador named Nelly had died three days prior.
He later photographed a white ball of light rising from her grave.
He claims he was nearly kidnapped at a PSI games conference when a woman attempted to force him into a van with no tags and no driver.

Consciousness Research and Scientific Theories

The episode discusses photobiomodulation (red light therapy) stimulating mitochondria, scalar physics and DNA resonance with exotic electromagnetic waves studied by researchers like Constantine Mile in Germany's Black Forest, and the theory that the sun may be a scalar wave generator spurring evolution.

The phenomenon knows thoughts in advance and cannot be fooled by consciousness experiments.
Thoughts are believed to create everything in the observed reality.
Scalar wave physics may explain anomalous electromagnetic phenomena associated with UFO encounters.
Dr. Thompson from New York with a neuroscience PhD monitored consciousness experiments at Monuro Institute.

Full Transcript

Show transcript

Do you think other people think that you are the Messiah? >> Came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. >> What? >> Yeah. My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. It was 19 years ago on January the 8th of 2007. I was down and out and lost [music] everything. Lost my home and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. Sick with Crohn's disease. And if anybody has Crohn's knows how bad that is. You know, you're in a restroom [music] 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. In January [music] of 2007, while fishing with friends in North Carolina, Chris Bledsoe witnessed a series of bright, intelligently [music] moving orbs in the sky. That moment doesn't end. It starts [music] a series of unexpected and seemingly miraculous events. And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no [music] more sickness. In the days and weeks that follow, the phenomena continue. The lights [music] appear again and again. Sometimes at a distance, sometimes directly [music] over his home. He reports numerous encounters that don't resemble crafts, lights, or UFOs at all, but what he [music] describes as a luminous feminine presence, deeply unsettling in its archetypal [music] familiarity. Her communication seems to go beyond the cliches and [music] platitudes of normal contact experiences. They touch on humanity's deep moral decay, cycles of civilizational collapse, judgment, the [music] apocalypse, and renewal. They revolve around humanity reaching [music] a threshold. >> I came back excited to tell it. That's when the next 5 years of darkness I talk about in my book started. His [music] UFO experiences only serve to make him more of a pariah in his local community of Fateville, North Carolina, where fundamentalist Christianity is the only way, and anything paranormal is considered demonic. NASA and the CIA show up at Bledso's door. [music] And not just anybody at NASA in the CIA. I'm talking about a high-level NASA mission controller [music] who has worked on launches at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the 80s. >> And he said, "I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that." >> He said that. >> Yeah. >> And this Yeah. >> scientists, military, and other intelligence officials [music] follow suit. They grill Bledsoe on his experiences. Some imply that certain [music] dates and symbols he's given by the lady align with things they're already monitoring and have [music] seen from other authoritative sources. So that they have like a scientific model of how these [music] angels work at NASA. They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. >> I personally don't know what Chris Bledsoe experienced and continues to experience to this day. But I know that his story doesn't sit at the edge of history forever. It's either going to collapse under scrutiny or force us to redraw the map. In this special episode of American Alchemy, we have a markedly [music] different conversation than the one that Chris Bledsoe is used to having. He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, where you recovered a little piece of metal. >> Yeah. >> Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio? >> I do. Tons and brown, right? >> What? Instead of just [music] retelling his story, we make some pretty mind-blowing connections from it. Ones involving secret societies [music] with access to time travel, anti-gravity experiments done in mid-century America, space metal [music] with curious properties that interact with consciousness in weird ways, what exists on the dark side of the moon, and what the world will look like in [music] the next decade. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to ascend [music] into the astral plane with this week's American Alchemist, Christopher Bledsoe. [snorts] This has been a long time coming. I'm here with Chris Bledsoe, who many call kind of a super experiencer because, you know, I was just rereading your book, UFO of God, and your life is really just remarkable. You've had all these incredible deep experiences and I want to talk about those experiences but I also want to talk because your story your story is well known at this point. I also want to talk about some of the deeper philosophies that you've kind of come into based on your experiences and maybe have kind of a metaphysical conversation. But I want to start with this very interesting discussion that we just kind of sparked up as you were walking in which is you have this golden pin on your jacket. What is that pen? Well, uh that pen was given to me by uh someone everybody has read about right down at Cape Canaveral without saying names. And uh >> um it signifies being off planet. So from what I'm told, the people that get these have been in space before. >> So astronauts pretty much >> right. And why do you think this person gave that pen to you? >> At the time, I had no clue other than what they were telling me. Um, it involved taking me into the astronaut crew quarters and going through a whole thing because I was, in other words, when this thing first happened, uh, this person from NASA came to my house with a backpack and whole lot of credentials that had everything from Area 51 to the CIA and all that combined NASA. And he um he tested the whole family with metal. He put a piece of metal in my hand. I was the last one to be tested. So all my four of my kids and my wife, they all went into this one room. So she got Ryan. He got Ryan's the first one and kind of made it secret. He took Ryan into a room, tested him, and said, "Now you go get the next person, but don't tell them." So he went out and got each person in the family, tested them with this metal. He brought me in last and I had no idea what I was doing. I sat down on the edge of the bed. It was in Ryan's room. And he put this piece of metal right here. He said, "What do you think of that?" I said, "Well, it looks like a piece of aluminum, like a postage stamp size that size thin." >> Was it light? >> Very light. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was kind of a dull gray. It wasn't like shiny. It was aluminum of some sort. Then he reaches in his backpack and pulls out another piece of metal that was different. And it was like aluminum foil. Look like foil. And it wasn't crease. He couldn't crease it, but it would wrinkle, but it would hold back up, but it wouldn't crease. You couldn't crease it. You could It would kind of roll up and then straighten out. But when he put that in this hand, it somehow another created this current that went through where it was communicating. This part of the metal was communicating with that part of the metal. And when that happened, it caused me to my eyes to roll back and he reached up and snatched it out of my hand real quick and said, "Why you?" This is in the book, by the way. And I had no idea what happened. He said, "Uh, why you this close?" I said, "Excuse me, what do you mean why me?" And he said, "Well, I would have known you were lying about being taken >> if you hadn't had a reaction to this." And he said, "I've only ever seen two others and they were nothing like yours." What he told me. So that started a um the next two or three years studying with them. Um and I'm being kind to my friend without saying his name, but you you know who I'm talking about. >> I know who you're talking about. Can I say who it is? Because it's I think it's Tim Taylor who's a NASA mission controller who Yeah. his name is now sort of sort of out there and yeah, we should definitely be respectful to him as somebody who doesn't maybe want to >> do public interviews himself, but I think he's put himself out there enough to >> Yeah. >> So, who is this Timothy Taylor figure showing up in Bledso's life? He's a mysterious rocket scientist who's done mission control for NASA since the8s. That part is not really disputed and [music] it's well documented in his autobiography, Launch Fever. At one point, Tim Taylor even had a small YouTube account with videos showing [music] his deep levels of access to NASA facilities. He's also taken people like Bledsoe through Kennedy Space Center. Religious studies professor Diana Pulka along with others have said that he's worked directly [music] with Elon Musk. But where it gets interesting is that he's also popping up in the lives of numerous UFO experiencers, claiming that he's a time traveler and works for an angel. Basically, he exists at the intersection between rigorous realworld aerospace [music] work and totally insane UFO lore. And that's why he's still American Alchemy's most requested guest. Some of the things that Tim Taylor told Chris would wholesale overhaul our understanding of reality if at all true. >> Really smart guy, like genius level. And uh >> really >> yeah, I enjoyed his company. We did a lot of stuff together. We traveled together. >> Um >> uh we were able to recover some metal together up >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know that. Yeah. >> Where was that? >> That was in Ohio. >> In Ohio? >> Yeah. >> Where in Ohio? >> In a little town called Zay Well, >> Zanesville. >> Zanesville. Yeah. >> Zanesville, Ohio. >> Yeah. >> Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio? >> I do. tea towns in Brown, right? >> What? [laughter] He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, where you recovered a little piece of metal? >> Yeah, a pretty good piece about that big. >> You're sure you went to Zanesville? >> Yeah. In fact, I went in a machine shop, he and I, and had a piece sawed off the metal, which he took with them, and we gave the other piece back to the person that had it. And I I knew the person and he wouldn't give it to anyone in the world, but he called me and he drives up in his yard and there's this red piece of glowing he sees this thing over his house and it goes away when he drives up, but there's a piece of red glowing metal in the yard. He lets it cool, picks it up, and puts it in a shoe box. And there it stays for 15 years. No way. And when he uh found out about me and read the story, he calls me and says, "I got something I want you to see." And so I called Taylor and he and I flew up there. [laughter] This is This is either engineered to make me excited [laughter] or this is the most remarkable story ever. I almost lost it during this part of the interview. Zanesville, Ohio is where Thomas [music] Townsen Brown was born. To me, Towns and Brown is the most interesting historical figure in the 20th century that no one knows about. I've independently uncovered an absurd amount of information that leads me [music] to believe that Townsen Brown essentially discovered anti-gravity in the 1950s. He was funded [music] by the same physics patrons at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, that sent science down the wrong path with quantum gravity in 1957. He was [music] also backed by the highest levels of CIA and aerospace. There are even videos of Townsen Brown at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, celebrating because his experiments presumably worked. Here he [music] is with a bottle of champagne. And we know due to real declassified documents written by the head of Australia's nuclear program Harry [music] Turner and often cited by UFO whistleblower David Grush that University of North Carolina Chapel Hill was waste deep in anti-gravity research. We also have a deathbed confession of French aerospace representative Jacques Cornion saying that Towns and Brown's experiments worked in Paris in the Montgier facility in 1956. tests were very very very tricky. It was sensitive to so so many things in vacuum. Finally, it works. So that was a positive result. >> And that's [music] just the tip of the spear. We also have Carl Nell, who helped set up Army Futures Command, which led all tech modernization efforts for the Army, implying that Townsen and Brown made breakthroughs in the world of gravity. Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into towns and brown and some other very interesting uh like heretical technologies. So, I'd invite people [music] uh an unsolicited plug to check out some of Jesse's podcasts. Not to mention [music] NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, Charles Beer, [music] literally leaving NASA to start a propellantless gravity-based propulsion system that he says is a derivative of Towns and Brown's [music] work. The term asymmetric electrical pressure is similar to [music] Thomas Towns and Brown's research into asymmetrical capacitors. >> Those older papers and that older subject [music] matter um is probably valid for most of the point. >> I could go on, but I'll spare you. The fact [music] that Chris Bledsoe was taken to Zanesville, Ohio, an otherwise completely unremarkable little Ohio town, seems like a very unlikely coincidence. [music] And the fact that the goal there was to retrieve an exotic piece of metal seems even more unlikely, especially given that Tim Taylor was escorting Bloodso there. As you're about to hear in this conversation, there are tons of other bizarre connections [music] between NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and mid-century anti-gravity inventor Towns and Brown. This episode is sponsored by Superpower. On this show, we spend all of our time trying to understand reality. But most of us are simply guessing when it comes to our own health. With conventional health care, you're firing totally blindly. You go to the doctor, you get a few basic labs, and you're told everything looks normal. But that thing that doesn't feel great, the chronic headaches, the stomach pain, the back pain, you don't ever really get insight on any of it. You don't get the proper data you need. You get no actionable insights and no real plan. That's why Superpower caught my attention. Superpower gives you a deep look at what's actually happening inside your body. 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Head to superpower.com and use code alchemy at checkout for $20 off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about them. Please make sure to mention this podcast to support the show. And so if there's a connection between this NASA mission controller who's obsessed with UFOs and this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, and then you're literally going to Zanesville, Ohio >> to collect UFO material, which is where it's a that's a random place. And that's where Towns and Brown >> was born in 1905. And there's there newspaper, you know, clippings of him creating, you know, wireless Telegram basically at the age of 12 or something. That's crazy. >> Yeah. True story. >> That's so crazy. >> And I can show you the metal. I'll give you a picture of it. >> Can please? >> Yeah. >> Can I feel the metal? >> Well, I don't own it. >> You don't own it. Okay. Yeah, Tim has it. Um I would I would love to see the picture. Yeah. And learn anything else about this Ainsville trip? That's just fascinating. >> Tim got it originally and then Dr. Put Off got another piece of it. >> Put off got another piece of it. I took Tom Dong and Lou Alzando to Zanesville or to to Pennsylvania or Ohio. I mean >> you took him to Ohio to Zayville. >> I took him to the same guy's house and and got them a piece of it as well. >> Were Were Tom Dong and Lou aware of Towns and Brown? >> I didn't discuss it with them. >> You didn't discuss that with them? >> No. >> So, >> but that's where some of their metal came from plus something that I had. I had three pieces of it. >> Do you think Put Off knows about Townsen Brown? Yeah, >> he does. >> Yeah, I'm sure. >> Yeah, he told me he um he he he met him. Yeah. >> Um but uh that he never, you know, he didn't know how far he got, you know, sort of thing. >> How, you know, how it can be a little cheeky, but >> interesting. >> Yeah. >> For the audience, I mean, I'm sure they know this, but I'm obsessed with this midcentury anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Townsen Brown, who I am very convinced made real updates in the world of gravity. He was a very nuts andbolts, you know, inventor and he worked at the highest levels, right, >> of military government with every kind of aerospace company you could you could guess. I mean, there's an FBI document on him saying he was the foremost radar expert in the Navy and um and he was in charge of the Philadelphia experiment actually which has all this lore about it and who knows whether the you know primmaaccious story of that is true but Um he was at you know uh uh Martin Vega the year that skunk works formed right >> he you know knew Curtis Lame knew Bill Lear the inventor of the lear jet >> right >> he was being funded by the guys who were sending physics down the wrong path while he was doing his I think more vital kind of anti-gravity experiments but the kind of subplot of his life >> is that gravity and time are very interrelated in general relativity >> and what I found so fascinating I made this whole documentary on Thomas Towns and Brown. And at the end of the documentary, I make this connection that Tim Taylor told your son Ryan Bledsoe that he was part of a secret time travel group in Nassau in the Bahamas and that Thomas Towns and Brown was the president. And even then, maybe I would have dismissed it out of hand, but I had become this amateur historian of Towns and Brown >> and he would always go to Nassau in the Bahamas. And then in if you read Tim Taylor's biography, Launch Fever, he's in Nassau a lot. So that does kind of place them both in, you know, >> Nassau at some time. >> It's called the Nassau group. >> The Nassau group. >> Yeah. So he took you to Z is the was the piece of metal this UFO metal in Zanesville related to Towns and Brown at all or >> No, there was a lot of conversation about that and the amount of activity around that place he said was uh all part of the land because where this metal was found was near the Indian serpent mound, right? So they know that there's a lot of activity and he told me stories about uh towns and brown. What did he say about Townsen Brown? >> Well, you know, his daughter was doing a book and Tim was helping her with that book. >> Tim was helping her with >> Yeah, he helped write that book. That her book? >> I didn't know that. And do you know I found a Amazon review from his daughter about Tim Taylor's book, Launch Fever. And this was before anybody knew about, you know, Tim Taylor because he hadn't even been written about, you know, pseudonmously in American Cosmic by Dana Pulka. This is in the early 2010s. >> Yeah. >> So, so he was helping Linda Brown write her book. >> Write her book. Yeah. >> Sure. >> I know. That's amazing. That >> And what did he say about Townsen himself? >> He told me he'd heard stories of these little things coming and landing in his yard and getting out and giving him information. >> That's real. Well, at least according to his daughter, his daughter did a sort of AMA on, you know, ask me anything on Reddit. She talked about beings coming down and then entering. I think it was like she was in the they were in the kitchen with her dad and her and they they were these sort of pale skinned y, you know, looked alien like looked from a, you know, like they were from another planet or existed in another environment >> and they talked all night and then, you know, they wake up the next morning, she thinks it's a dream and then two nights later they're at dinner and she brings up the dream and Thomas Townsen Brown goes, "That wasn't a dream." or something [laughter] like that. >> Right. Exactly. >> Wow. >> Did he ever insinuate on what the Nassau group, this time travel group in the Bahamas was doing? >> He didn't. He didn't. He just told me at one point that that he thought I may have to go hide out there a while. >> Really? >> That was when it really first happened way back >> cuz it was a dangerous place. The whole world was different in 2008. It was it was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified higher than the nuclear bomb. >> But you would have to hang out in NASA. >> Well, they mentioned that I may have to go there for protection. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> So, what's there? >> I don't know. I just that was all he told me. you know, he writes in Launch Fever, his biography about flying these cargo jets back and forth between Florida and Nassau, >> right? >> And I think the >> the guy he was flying with was like selling drugs and he didn't even know about it. Like it was like he was he was just kind of being like along for the ride or whatever. >> But then he says some really trippy things around he goes time moved differently in Nassau. But he's saying it like it's like island time, you know? Right. >> So it's like and then you're like is that coded because he's telling you you know that in Diana Pasula about the adjustment bureau and like >> you know timeline hopping and then he's saying time moves different in this Nassau group but that in Nassau but then he's also telling your son and you that he's in a secret time travel group with towns and brown in Nassau. So I'm like, is he writing in code there? >> Pro. Yeah, those guys are all about Yeah, they're so super secretive. >> Uh they can they'll tell you things and u code like that and it's up to you to get it or not, but >> yeah, >> I want to meet the Nassau group. How do How do we do that? >> I have no idea. >> I don't know how I would find them or what. That was just that was something told to me years ago. and Ryan heard it and uh it it never left me. But as far as where and how and who, I don't I don't know. We never got involved or >> Yeah. Cuz it's so it's so like the world's so interesting cuz he also I believe he told you and I think Diana Pulka that you know he said read the adjustment team or watch the adjustment bureau >> which is this the original was a Philip K. dick book, >> right? >> And then this movie with Matt Damon and it's all about adjusting little variables to change timelines, right? >> And he viewed his role in reality as doing that, >> right? >> And so do you think he actually viewed his role as as doing that as part of this sort of timeline adjustment team? >> You mean Tim >> Tim Taylor? Yeah. >> Well, he's told me he was the one who told me to read to watch the movie. He said that movie was created for a reason. watch it. It's a lot like that. And um then he said, "And in that movie, you'll find a character named the hammer." And he said, "And I work for the hammer and the hammer works for God." I'm like, "You got to tell me more than that." And that's all he would tell me. He said, "I work for the hammer and the hammer works for God." >> And you what do you think the hammer is? >> Well, in the movie he's an like an archangel. M he's the guy that the lesser beings couldn't couldn't stop what was happening >> because of love you know if you watch the movie >> that's so fascinating so they send the hammer down to to take care of it and uh of course I won't spoil the movie but [laughter] yeah >> it ends up well but yeah whoa I mean do do think that he's in touch with a celestial being with an angel. >> He insinuated that and um I can probably believe that. Yeah. >> Something. >> Yeah. >> Whether it's an angel or what I don't know. >> So what would the go because he seems to show up in a lot of you know super experiencers lives. So there people who've had experiences here and there and then there are people like you >> who have repeated experiences and >> a lot of interactions with this other world >> and I found it very interesting that he showed up in Charles Hall's life and then he shows up in your life. Um I think he knew Whitley Strieber as well. >> Y'all say Timothy Taylor. >> Yeah. >> He's a good friend of ours. >> Oh so you know you know Timothy Taylor. Mhm. >> He came here because he found out about Charles and that was when his daughter, the one who had the the baby, was like, what was she maybe in fifth grade when they came the first time? >> Yeah, we >> Why do you think he was he became interested in your story? my wife can answer all the questions >> be because he he realized as far as he was concerned that Charles was the the real article was legitimate >> and as I say it's really concerned me because I've tried to email other people because he he brought other people to meet us and visit with us. They they one of the guys cooked right here in my kitchen and so I tried to contact those people because I had in uh emails for them and I never got a response about what happened to him. >> So what do what do you think it is with him? Do you think there's some mandate from the hammer from this angel or something to interact with experiencers? >> If he's being truthful about that I would say that's probably correct. there's some kind of mandate guiding him. >> So, he's definitely connected. I mean, big time. >> Do you think he was being truthful or >> Yeah. Well, you you know, sometimes you wonder if it's all >> uh smoke and mirrors designed to throw you off course, you know, but [snorts] I listen to everything. I work with him for three or four years before Diana met him. I introduced Diana to Tim. We were working on crazy stuff like stem cell research and I have no idea what that is and what proteins are and anything medical, right? I'm a carpenter and yet I'm reading papers at night that they would send me >> and my job was to draw whatever came out of me, whatever I saw. And >> so usually every week I'm sending in some sort of diagram of cells and all kinds of things. 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They were creating what's called a viograph which was uh it was based on metal the metal that they recovered and infusing it into this um well the particular and I have video of the operation of a young lady the first operation in the United States uh was a a Spanish lady that had bone cancer in her thigh And they removed like two inches of the bone and they wrapped it with this biograph injected stem cells into it and in like 60 days her bone had regrown the pain was gone. She could walk again. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I mean that is a operational functional, you know, company that with that does real things in the biomedical world. >> And what what makes it fascinating is that maybe the backdrop of that company is recovered UFO material. Exactly. >> And somebody like you intuitively downloading the functionality. >> I don't know how much good I did, right? But I it was uh to come from a carpenter being ridiculed by the whole community to secretly drawing diagrams for NASA was you know it was pretty cool thing. Well, it it you know, you have all these rumors of like Philip J. Corso and you know him being involved in you know I think army's you know uh foreign technology desk and transferring you know uh uh crash materials from Roswell for example to Bell Labs so they could you know help build you know semiconductors things like that >> but what you don't hear of is uh people download people like yourself who are intuitively kind of tapped in downloading >> aspects of the functionality of some of these technologies. That's really interesting. Well, that um [sighs and gasps] I'm learning. I'm learning over the last n it's been 19 years I've been doing this, right? A long time. And in that time, I've learned a lot and I keep learning every day. But I there is a great um correlation with the phenomenon guiding us and creating things in our path. Then if you're smart enough and you pay attention to that, all kinds of things come. It's like it's like being Sherlock Holmes. I'm like, "Oh boy, what's next?" You know? So that's kind of the way I've modeled my life is >> is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus. I let let >> I call it the lady, right? Or uh that the phenomena. >> Yeah. Yeah. The it's like the the way is not the way. like you have to you have to or I think there's a concept called wooue which is effortless effort >> and uh there's sort of sitting back being receptive listening to the signs and then just kind of you know following following the path and right >> that's a that's an art you know it's it's easy to get into this mode of being attached and trying to overengineer outcomes >> exactly for example um in the music world I happened to I wrote about something that happened. I was given a message that they're um that the the divine world encodes messages within the music that we listen to and we just don't know it. Right? So, it's being channeled by these musicians. And that led me on um tell you how manifestation works is because when I was given that information, I was given five or six songs. Six. Five right away. one at another point. And when I read the lyrics on it, it was like, "Oh my god, this is crazy. This is crazy." I couldn't believe it. You hear these songs, but you never read the words. Well, that day in 2012, I said, "Lord, I wish I could tell Sammy Hagar from Van Halen >> or Robert Plant or or Jimmy Paige or Neil Young. These are the guys or or Metallica, right? These are the guys that I I just said the simple little prayer, you know, right off the top of my head. Lord, I wish I could tell them, "Wow, this is what I was thinking. Last year on my birthday, I get a phone call and it's Sammy's wife Ki and u we become friends and then it turned into Kurt Hammet with Metallica. And then then I get a a text from my friend. He said, "Hey Chris, I'm in the pub in in England." And sitting beside me is Robert Planton. He's reading your book. >> No way. >> Yeah. And he >> That's crazy. >> He sent you a happy birthday. And the same two days later I get a call from Fred Durst Lint Biscuit. >> Oh yeah. Well, he's super into UFO UFO podcast. >> I've been on his podcast. >> Cool. >> So anyhow, it just all poured out and it manifested. I didn't do it. I didn't seek these people out. They they called me >> and now that's um Sammy told me that the the song Love Walks in >> he don't even know where the words came from. just came out of him and it is this song is like you have to read the lyrics on it. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Well, I didn't even I mean it's crazy how much music is influenced by this stuff. Like >> I think Paul McCartney one of the Beatles had a dream about a flaming pie, >> right? >> And that was how the the Beatles name came about somehow. >> I didn't know that >> it was going to be spelled differently >> Beatles. And then it and then it and then it moved into B A T L E S after this flaming pie came down in the stream or something. >> And so yeah, you you have a lot of these sort of stories. That's amazing. >> Yeah. >> Um do you think that you know because we we we often think of like you know the aerospace world that's interested in a lot of what you're doing is very kind of nuts and bolts focused. Not >> right. >> They don't care about you know downloads or experiences or whatever. Do you do you do you feel like they really do they very they are really interested in the phenomena and they they are learning from it as much as they are just you know writing equations on chalkboards >> a million%. In fact, in the last year, I've seen or two years, I've seen a huge increase in the the uh scientists, mainstream scientists that, you know, forever like Diana, she was the first PhD that would even talk about this, right? And back then, if you even said this out loud, people would laugh and walk away. Nobody would talk. Now, um, there's over 200 mainstream scientists right now. That was the word I was told by Dr. Estz, Anna Brady Est. >> Oh, yeah. She's been on the podcast. We're we're still coming out with something cool. Yeah. >> But she uh >> American deep tech. >> She's she's uh told me that there's at least 200 scientists that want to start working on this thing. >> It's fascinating. Yeah, it's fascinating. >> And it almost feels like at times the scientists are being coordinated on a higher level. >> Yeah. >> And uh this gets into like the threebody problem or you know science fiction novels like that where >> you know uh the way that the phenomena speaks to us is through scientific discoveries, innovation, through serendipitous meetings between scientists >> and I'm sure it's the same thing with art and other creation >> big time and to the creativity world. artist of all kinds. In other words, I don't mean to interrupt, but if if I had to say of all the people that call me that the majority of these experiencers, a good majority of them will be artist that paint, that make music, that act, they're different type of people and >> creative people. for some reason they're the ones that have a lot of this experience and have been for years. >> Makes sense that they'd be tapped in. I think it's more interesting in a sense that somebody like, you know, I've spoken to Hell Put Off about this and he goes, >> I always follow the synchronicities and when they stop, I know I'm on the wrong path, whatever. And it's like this guy is a very serious scientist who's popping up not only in areas of quote unquote UFO science, but in you know prosaically very interesting science, >> right? >> So >> pretty serious guy. >> Yeah. And we were talking outside. It sounds like you're in touch with some locked guys, too. >> Yeah. >> What's what's the deal there? >> Well, I have friends everywhere. there there's no shortage of people from NASA, from Lheed, from 3M, from uh from all over these scientists. But my I I happen to have a friend that is a material scientist that works with this material and um he kind of stays pretty close to me following me about and we we travel together and we study together and doing a lot of things right now. >> Interesting. Yeah. Who's that? >> I can't tell. Does he uh work at a a big aerospace corporation or >> he uh well he Yeah, you'll see him one day at uh he lives in Silicon Valley, but you'll see him one day he'll be >> in a skiff somewhere under an airport or he'll be in uh >> at NASA. Okay. >> Or he'll be somewhere in amongst all that. Um >> yeah, >> fascinating. Yeah, >> it's so interesting. >> He's educated me a lot on this metal and how it acts and and how it acts differently in zero gravity than it does on on ground level. >> How does the metal act differently in zero gravity? It's um it it it has a way of um well just let's just say that the words I heard this metal is much acts much like an animal in that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect and how I got this pen was being off planet and being tested by that metal knowing that it bonded to to me. So that's why this phenomenon is always around if it's trying to reconnect all the time. >> And because you went up on a craft, you're somehow connected with the the metal. >> Yeah. >> How do you think you're connected with it >> into the DNA is all I know. It's a frequency. I think our DNA is transmitted a frequency, which is >> I've seen the papers on it and uh in a a radar type frequency. So it's pinging and it's receiving, sending and receiving. And um so it's always it's always once it connects with you on that level and I'm being very careful not to say a whole lot here, but I get a phone call if I say too much, right? But [laughter] >> so yeah. >> Well, they're clearly trying to because they know you have a public presence. They are going to get asked about this stuff. So they want to get it out somewhat would be my guess. You know >> there's a you know there's a a scientist named Constantine Mile. He's in the Black Forest in Germany >> and he uh talks about uh scalar physics and its relationship with DNA specifically like DNA resonance with these exotic electromagnetic waves that exist in the scalar field. Um, which if you think about it, if we are getting any sort of messages via our DNA, a transverse herzian, a classic electromagnetic wave, doesn't really make sense because it decays at 1 / r^ 2. So if you're in a Faraday chamber or you're, you know, kind of in some remote place or whatever, the decay function on a normal electromagnetic wave would be too stark uh for you to really receive a lot of information ongoing. >> But if you have some of these more exotic waves that travel at 1 / R, which a lot of these kind of deeper aerospace scientists believe possibly exist, >> right? um maybe your body would be able to download and encode a lot more information. And they say they think that the sun is a scalar wave generator. So maybe the sun is, >> you know, constantly spurring evolution and and and Tim Taylor talks about in Diana's book, American Cosmic, that he's his protocols are around, you know, you know, being in the sunlight, looking at the sun. >> Well, that's it. and and um in fact um I read the paper on it >> 15 years ago 13 years ago >> and the thought is that the sun the way it shines at an angle on the earth it creates the green color spectrum which is the center of the color spectrum right and in that our um the sun is is affecting what's called ADT which is the hemoglobin been in your blood and the chlorophyll implants. So it when it hits that it starts this energy and it starts creating life and so the sun is telling everything how to be a pear, how to be a grass, how to be a tree, how to be a me or you. So all the information of life is coming from that green light from what they're saying. It's just constantly >> sending all information, all encoding to every living thing. Birds, it's where it comes from. >> Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean, there's there's this idea of the anthropic principle, which is why is Earth, you know, this perfect kind of homeostatic like just place that that fosters life? And there are, you know, a couple of different explanations for it. One is like we've tried a million different iterations. This is the Goldilocks zone. We just got really lucky or whatever to to live in the the the one where it's perfect. >> And then there's another one which is this has been sort of created or simulated, you know, for for life. And if you think about the Earth's magneettosphere, the way it blocks cosmic radiation >> but allows just enough cosmic radiation to allow for the perfect amount of natural selection to allow for, you know, real real evolution. Um, but then the magneettosphere of the earth itself, like literally the human resonance fosters human and animal morphology and in and this sort of perfect way. If you put a frog embryo in a Faraday chamber where that's blocked, it doesn't grow normally. >> So, it's this like the these perfect sort of circumstances. So, one thing we figured out this past year, I was on um John Alexander called me two or three times. Chris, nobody got it. Yeah, I was on the um this Beyond Skinwalker show with Brandon Fugal, right? So, we were at the Monurro Institute and they took me in the basement of the lab and put me in a Faraday cage >> and it's uh is silent. It's walls like this dig with uh you know, I'm in a I'm in the basement of the lab in a build in a basically a coffin is what it looked like with ceilings are copper and the walls are copper. So no electromagnetism can get in there. And so they had all these cameras outside pointing up at the sky. And I'm in this thing and uh they have uh Dr. Thompson from from New York uh neuros neuro PhD and neuroscience was monitoring me and uh he said if you if you sense a UFO over the complex just point to the ceiling. Every time I pointed, they were filming something above the the building. And that from that point on, um John and a whole lot of other scientists says this proves this consciousness. It's not electromagnetic, it's consciousness. So it's instantaneous. It's that thoughts which is what's creating everything. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, if you think of, you know, we have phonons, which are sort of, you know, quantum vibration packets, and then you have photons, which are quantum light packets. >> Maybe at some point we'll figure out quantum thought packets or something. >> That's it. It's all thought. >> This is this is just how it works with me, >> you know? I don't have to go out and speak to get this thing to come. I just think about it. >> M. >> So, it knows our thoughts. M >> completely >> and in advance of what you're going to think. You can't fool it. >> Wow. >> At all. There's no way. >> Wow. >> This episode is sponsored by True Classic. This is one of my favorite shirts. It kind of works for every occasion. I honestly didn't think I cared about t-shirts until I realized how many of them I don't wear. They end up just accumulating in your closet. Most of them look fine on a hanger. Then you put them on and something's off. They're too boxy, they're too stiff, they're too long, or they just kind of hang weird. That's the problem True Classic set out to fix. They focus on the fit first, which in my opinion is the most important thing when it comes to a shirt. Shirts that sit right on your shoulders and chest, relax where they should, and don't feel like you're wearing cardboard. The material is also extremely soft, breathable, and flexible. You put one on and you don't think about it again, which is kind of the goal. 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Thank you to True Classic for sponsoring today's episode. >> I want to go where other people haven't gone in interviews with you, >> right? Do you feel like, you know, when you read like uh and this is going to sound like a crazy question, but like when you read the book of Acts and, you know, learn about Jesus, do you feel like he is a state of being that others can get to through kind of, you know, really spiritual profound kind of experiences? what Diana Pasulka calls in her book hierophanes revelations. And again, this is not to make him out to be this exclusive, untouchable, you know, being or state, but like maybe maybe some people can reach this state. And do you feel like maybe you're you're in that sort of Christ consciousness and that allows you to to have% healing effect on people? >> Yeah, 100%. And um you know the way I was born and raised a Baptist and and married a Pentecostal holiness girl and and you know was very deep into the church and loved it. And my wife still goes she was at church yesterday and um or the day before Sunday. But the way you know when Jesus came he he wasn't a Christian. He was just saying the kingdom of heaven is within you. You you you can talk to God yourself and you don't need to pay anybody to have that. And I don't think they liked him saying that a whole lot and his life was cut short because of that. >> Well, that's one of my favorite lines. It's in an apocryphal, you know, the gospel of Thomas, but it's, you know, if you look to the sea, the fish will precede you. If you look to the sky, the birds will precede you. The kingdom of heaven is inside of you. Exactly. and all around you >> and um you know and then you'll have hardcore biblical scholars say a was written 150 years later and you know >> doesn't matter that's the words Jesus used the kingdom of heaven is within you that spark that divine spark and and you can yeah >> do you how do you how do you cuz like >> I feel like my on worldview and ontology in some ways matches a lot the yours and what you say. And then I think there are a lot of people out there who are like, who is this guy saying that he sees orbs and you know that's a 747 or a satellite or whatever. >> What do what do you say to those people? >> Um, you know, I expect that. I've learned until you see it and experience it, um, you're just uninformed. You know, it's real. It's 100% real. And I have shared it with groups as large as a thousand at one time with a PA and a the most liberal UFO group, you know, I've ever been to was contact in the desert this past summer. Right. And here I am being drugged by the hand all day. You need to be in this room at this time, this room at that time. Hadn't eaten all day. Hadn't been to the bathroom. And it's like 7:00 at night and I'm finally, you know, and I deal with rheumatoid. So my energy levels in the evening are low. My wife comes in or the uh my my assistant comes and he says, "Oh, you got a skywatch at at at uh 9:00. It was 8 then." I like, "Oh my god, I forgot all about that. Huge pressure. It's it's cloudy. It's raining in Palm Springs. It never rains in Palm Springs, right? It's sprinkling. And they said, "There's a big group sitting outside waiting on you." So I like I'm like I took I told my wife, I said, "Take me somewhere to where nobody can see me because if they see me, there was always 50 people in line, right?" So she took me over into a little seating area where it was dark. And I laid back and I looked up at the sky and I said, "Lord, I need help. I'm stressed tonight. It's raining. There's a thousand people out there wanting to see something." And suddenly when I said that, my wife sat beside me. I heard this this telepathic voice say, "Don't worry about the rain. It'll just get more interesting." And then I saw these three orange orbs come down under the clouds and this digital digit that said 9:45 just flashed right up. I said, "Okay, there'll be three orange orbs at 9:45." So I got up. I walked over to the center of a thousand people. They're in a big circle and I'm in a 20ft circle that they kept that where I could walk around in it with a microphone. And so I told the whole group and I were in advance. I said at 9:45 there'll be three orange orbs that appear underneath the clouds. And exactly at 9:45 it happened. >> Whoa. Do you have video of that? >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> And you can hear me on the microphone. It's all recorded predicting it an hour in advance. I didn't predict it. I saw it. It shared it with me. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> That's so fascinating. It's like the the Fatima prophecy but compressed and at a UFO conference. >> But you know what I did? I'm at a UFO conference and they're you know some of them's got 10 full hats on and they have all these Galactic Federation. Well, >> it doesn't compute with me, right? So I I basically held a little church at the most liberal thing. I did not church, but I said, "Look, we're just going to say a little prayer here. This is how it works with me. There is no summoning. All this thing you hear about summoning these things, that's if they're having negative experiences, whoever is doing this, well, that's why >> because you're you're open to anything coming. But I always use a little prayer. And so I just told him, I said, "I believe that the Holy Spirit is this beautiful lady that gave me this information and I'm just going to ask her right now to share her presence with us." And that's the only thing I said. What do you think of because it seems like you're coming at this from a very spiritual perspective. There are rumors that the legacy UFO program itself uses protocols to attract UFOs to come in. Sometimes use directed energy weapons against them, get them to lands psionically through what they call psionic assets. Yeah. >> So that would be finding somebody maybe similarly tapped in as as you are, >> but who's sort of not maybe come about it in the more kind of earnest spiritual way through life experience that you did. Maybe they just have some >> ability or maybe they've been given a protocol or something. >> What are psionic assets? Um when we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing, um psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different um protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment. from from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field. >> How do you feel about that attracting crafts to come down trying to derive material from these crafts or get downloads from them? Uh but for like defense, you know, kind of militaryindustrial complex purposes. Well, I've been uh you know, I work in and around a lot of those people and I've had a lot of proposals that and and you wouldn't believe um even proposals if I could get it to come down, could they shoot at it? I'm like, absolutely not. >> Yeah, >> that's not going to happen with me. You want to study it. >> What I what I see is um is want to communicate with us. Um, you hear about all that, but I've not seen any of it. I haven't seen the results. So, there's a lot of talk out there, but not a lot of data to show, right? Where I show the data. I take a thousand people out or 500 out. And we get things that appear to have wings, orange glowing beings, as many as 20 at the time, fly 25 ft over our head and appear out of thin air, p come right over us glowing. And um so it's very spiritual and sacred to me and I would never um but as far as you know I heard some of the things on age of disclosure and they were talking about negative parts of it um or being negative. Um I've never experienced that ever in my whole 19 years of doing it. In fact you talked about the book of Acts when uh Saul was on the road to Damascus. M >> what was it that appeared and blinded him? >> What was it? >> It was an orb. >> Whoa. >> Flashed him. Said it flashed around him, >> blinded him. >> Was a ball of light. >> Same thing. >> And so, you know, it's it's all in your thought process. If you grounded with that humbleness and earnesty and you love, then you're going to get that. But if you put something out, I mean, if we want aliens, right? We create this in our brain. If we want aliens with ray guns, if you get enough of the population to think on that, that's probably what'll manifest. What do you think the orbs are? It's this sort of perennial question because I think a lot of people have these experiences. I think a lot, you know, they they'll meditate, they'll be deep in prayer, and they'll see something come up. I I I have an experience like that where I was doing holotropic breath work with a friend in Silver Lake, California of all places, like the last place you'd ever expect to see anything and we saw >> two metallic orbs >> show up and it it doesn't feel coincidental that like you know for him I think it was his first time doing holotropic breath work and >> right >> you know you're spo that's supposed to get you into a state where your brain I think endogenously releases DMT and you're you're in this kind of heightened spiritual state. Um, >> what do I think it is? >> What do you think they are? >> Well, um, I'm very careful to try not to label because it's all speculation. You know, you asked the question, what do you think? Well, I'm guessing, right? All of us are. >> Sure. >> And nobody's experienced it. I don't think any more than I have. I I see it just about every day of my life. and it comes in my house. Orbs appearing in my room over my chairs and flying through the house and stuff. >> So you think you experience it more than anybody in the world? >> I haven't seen anybody with the data I have. M >> show me the data and then we you know what I'm seeing but people are seeing it now >> and I predicted that >> in my book you'll read where I wrote about a certain incident that was going to happen in future which was when Iran and Israel began to exchange missiles at one another at that point is when these balls of light these orbs were going to start appearing and revealing themselves to the world. I wrote about that and that was something I've talked about for 10 12 years and then look last November. >> These drones supposedly drones that show up. Those aren't drones. >> They're orbs coming out of the sea appearing and they're saying stop. >> They deescalated and they kind of settled. They started putting F-35s in Poland. All of a sudden now there's orbs all over Europe. So, what do you think the orbs are [clears throat] >> based on uh the patterns that I've seen? I'm saying I'm guessing right, but um 19 years of of research and prayer, simple prayer, that mindset, don't have to say it verbally, just think it, um lends me to believe it's something uh connected to our thoughts, very caring, loving um and our beings. I can share a video with you of an orb with a lady standing beside me and another lady. I got one on each side. This one has cancer, stage four kidney cancer. Jesus. And she's missing one kidney already. Year and a half later, it metastasizes in her other kidney. she calls me. So, she's worried about her the chemo is not working. So, she had a very um poor chance of survival. So, she calls me and comes to my house. This was in 2015, I guess, and uh 2013 maybe. And she brings her girlfriends, like five of them. So, it's all of those, myself, my wife, and some of my children. and three Native Americans. They're outside. They're they just happen to show up at the same time. Friends of mine. And so I got them to kind of do a spiritual song that they do for healing for her. All of a sudden in the video, you'll see an orb appear. It comes zooming right up to me and all of a sudden it flashes and out of that comes a tall glowing figure about six to seven feet tall and then it just kind of moves over out of the camera right in front of this lady and then she goes to get her scan on Monday and has them more cancer. >> What? >> Yeah. And I have it on video so >> I would love to see that video. >> I'll share it in a little bit with you. That would be amazing. That's amazing. >> So, 19 years, I have more data about this and more uh than most people can imagine. >> Would she ever go on record and talk about this? >> Yeah, probably. >> Wow. I'd love to speak with her. >> Yeah, >> this is so it's so amazing. >> So, this is why I always lend to the spiritual side. >> Uh you know, I believe there if there's what is an angel, >> it's a messenger. I don't know what it is. I know that it is it is to me is uh is a con and it could be just a fractal of consciousness itself which that word means God in the end it comes back to the creation or the creator that mind >> so maybe these lights are just fractals of that >> but I don't know >> do you believe Tim Taylor is a time traveler >> well I'm guessing you know People say that, but it's possible. It's very possible. >> We were talking right before we were rolling about intersection points, >> right? >> Points where maybe you can hop between timelines or something. >> Exactly. >> What does that What does that mean to you? >> Well, um, you know, it's just hard to wrap your head around. There's no words for that. The vocabulary for all this is just like very small. But um yeah, I'll have to think on that one what it means. >> I was having a dream the other night about that about timelines changing, shifting, >> and it was such a weird dream, but it was like, you know, it's like there's stories of this is really random, but like Bill Murray, the actor, right? >> He'll walk around New York City and he'll like take a French fry from somebody, eat it, you know, in their restaurant or whatever. and uh you know he'll just like literally like off the street and then they'll look at him they'll be like that's Bill Murray like taking my fry or [laughter] whatever and um and then he'll he'll look at them and he'll go no one will ever believe you and that's what a lot of the phenomenon feels like. It feels like self-concealing you know it's like the perfect I'm sure the perfect amount of the video that you described was cut off where open-minded people will believe it and then some hypers skeptic will not. Then there's it's it's like there is always some little stigma left on the evidence that you do have that is fully debunkable. But it's it's always like this like >> that's the phenomena. >> It is it's messing with >> and it's designed it's doing that because there are three kinds of people. >> I've talked about this many times. There are three types. >> Yes, >> probably more. >> Okay. >> But there are people that can see, right? that can see this. There are people that I can teach to see. >> And there are people that can never see. >> Oh, damn. >> They'll never see it because they're skeptical. And when you're skeptical about this, you will never be in the club ever. It will not let you in because it doesn't want to mess with your free will. >> But skepticism is also good, you know. >> But some skeptics can come seers, right? >> Sure. But there are some that can never their brains are wired um >> you know to where it's a block. >> You do need some filtering mechanism. You need some something in your brain being like that feels >> wrong or false. You know what's the phrase? You know your mind could be so open your brain could fall out, you know. >> So do how do you view that? cuz discernment seems like an important, you know, part of waiting your way through this topic. >> 20 years of it, 19 years of me when it first happened. Um, >> all I knew is that I was afraid when I was looking at it in the broad daylight. It came out of the sky in daytime. It wasn't in dream. It wasn't at night. It was in the broad daylight. Then they came and they took me. So that programmed me in a way there was never doubting ever doubting. >> Describe this whole experience. So you there was just broad daylight and they came and took you who's they and >> well they whoever they are. >> Yeah. >> Um and this is in my book UFO of God by the way. I haven't check it out. I haven't plugged it yet, but >> um it was 19 years ago on January the 8th of 2007 will be 19 years. I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home, my income. I had too many houses on the market. I was building a 100 homes a year and had been for 19 20 years. and the World Trade Center thing happened and then the housing bubble bust. And so I found myself in a place to where I was living in a a million-doll home on the golf course and now I'm in a mobile home with no income and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. That's how bad it got. And so I'm crying out to God walking along. Uh I had gone fishing at the river with my son and three other guys and they wanted to fish. And so I walked away. They were sitting on the bank of the Cape River and I walked up the way we came in. We were down in the bottom. You know, you cross a big cornfield and then you go down in the river bottom. So that about a quarter mile down in the bottom is where they were sitting on the bank. And I told them I'm going to walk up to the field and look for deer or whatever. Just wildlife. Not telling them how depressed I was and where I was. I mean, I was struggling bad, sick with Crohn's disease, had it 18 years, suffering with it. And um anyhow, I walk up to that field and it was just about 10 after 5 when I started up that way. took about five minutes to walk, maybe eight. And when I got to the top of that hill, there they were. Two these big balls of fire, like flaming 40 foot round red, orange glowing balls of fire. And there the fire is going around it. And these little tips were shooting off of it. Flames. And there were two of them side by side very low down probably couple hundred feet above the trees and about 300 yards away. And I'm at the back of the field and they're up at the road the highway you know that's where they were and I'm sitting there looking at them scared to death. First I was mesmerized like what in the world? I'm a commercial pilot. Still have my tickets. And um so I knew right away what we were looking at wasn't anything Fort Bragg or any military anybody had. And so the chill came over me. It's like, "Oh my god, what am I looking at?" So this is my mind went from amazement to fear suddenly. And then um I guess 5 10 minutes sitting there watching it. I got so afraid I wanted to run. So, I turned my body and pointed down the hill to go run down to where my son was on the bank of the river. And I had to look back one more time. So, I turned to look back before I went to run. And when I did, the third one, a third one above me was invisible. It was not visible. It just appeared and shot right straight down in front of me. 5:15, 5:30 in the evening in January. It's not dark. Um, 4 hours later, I come walking back to the river where they were and my son was missing. He wasn't there. He had gotten lost looking for me on foot. I couldn't compute any of that. How I had been gone for 20 minutes is all I could think. And they were fussing at me. Where have you been? We've been looking you all night. And it took me it took me a long time to reconcile that. And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness. And if anybody has Crohn's knows how bad that is. It's uh it's the worst thing. You know, you're in a restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. So, I'm suffering with sickness and suffering mentally and depressed and finally all of it. I'm at the very bottom crying out, "Lord, help me. What do I do?" >> You're living in a relatively small town in North Carolina where >> you were, you know, very successful and known by all your community members and >> you were at the depths of kind of despair and I'm sure feeling like a pariah or something among your community. >> Oh, yeah. I came back excited to tell it and that's when um basically the next five years of darkness I talk about my book started and it was the pitchforks came out, the holy water came out. >> Yeah. >> And the social services came to my house trying to remove me from the house. >> But real quick, so you said that you thought it was 20 minutes had gone by. It was 4 hours. >> It was 4 hours. And do you remember what you had experienced? Did you recover the memories? >> I recovered quite a bit of them. >> How'd you recover them? >> Um, a time and through hypnosis and a doctor from Harvard helping me. And then you got to wonder, is it all real? But I can tell you they talk telepathically. >> Who is the doctor from Harvard? >> Dr. Michael Okonnell was his name. And is he um done this with other experiences? >> Yeah, he was trained by John Mack. >> That's amazing. I didn't know there was a doctor at Harvard currently who was trained by So John Mack was the head of the Harvard psychiatry department >> who saw a lot of experiencers and originally he got into it cuz he was interested in missing time. It's like all these people are coming with missing time and then he had been childhood friends synchronistically with Bud Hopkins who was very interested in >> experiencers, abductees. So he has an heir at Harvard. John Mack does. Michael Oonnell. >> Well, he's dead now. He died. >> Oh, that's unfortunate. I was literally gonna be like, I want to interview him. >> Yeah, he's u he was a a I loved the guy. I mean, we bonded really close until he died. He lived in South Carolina, so I lived, you know, an hour and a half from him. So, we visited a lot. >> Wow. I think another thing for people to understand if they are skeptical of something coming out in a hypnotic regression, these experiences are so traumatic. They're so foreign to you when they happen, >> right? >> If you look at any other extremely traumatizing experience just in the world, >> right? um a woman who's or you know somebody experiences child abuse or like something extremely you know serious uh uh that just shatters your whole being you will repress that memory. >> Yeah. >> And it will often have you know you'll have fragments of it. You'll have shards of it. Uh but it'll be like broken glass and it will you'll need techniques like this at times to recover th those memories. So, so this guy Michael Oonnell works with you, >> right? >> And what do you end up recovering? >> Well, what he you know what he did? I'll give you a short on what he did. He he came and he started uh just dialogue talking and told me that he knew from his studies that they can tend to pack a lot of information in your mind and um it's locked away in there and that it if you were to remember it all at one time, it'd probably drive you crazy. So he um I can tell you I had severe headaches. If I tried to think past that missing time, I would pass out. >> I did it over and over. When they would question me, I'd get to a point and I couldn't think anymore and the headaches would come so bad, I would pass out. >> You know, there's there's a really great book by my mind's just going to all these crazy places, but there's a book called Healing Back Pain by Paul Sarno. It's this amazing book that healed a lot of people's backs psychossematically because it it talks about chronic pain as being adaptive from a psychossematic perspective. And so maybe even this was the case with your Crohn's disease that you were facing where it is more adaptive to feel physical pain at times than to process emotional pain, >> right? And so it would make sense that actually physical pain would be the blocker >> for something that was maybe more emotionally >> painful or transformative or something. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. >> So um so we started working together and he would tell me we're going to we're going to program you to where that all the this information comes out a little at a time, not too much, but you'll remember it all. That's what he said. Immediately when he did the work with me within days, I started having these nightmares and dreaming and speaking in my sleep and talking to my wife and kids were videoing me in the bed. They'd hear me, you know, saying all kinds of crazy things about my experience. And but what what it was like, Jesse, was like a virtual tour. M >> in other words [clears throat] the they took me the first thing I remembered was seeing Egypt why over the pyramids looking over the pyramids and seeing the Sphinx that's all I remember that and seeing this temple Hatheror's temple >> and all the animals and the birds it was just like this video that was playing in my brain about Egypt and so I I I you know I studied everything I could study about that and I I went to to scholars like Dr. Gilbert and >> learned from Robert all kinds of sacred geometry and >> I didn't know you learned from Robert Gilbert. >> Yeah, he lived in Asheville right close to me. So >> famous Rosacrruian scholar. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Loved. >> Wow. Yeah. He very sad. He uh >> was I think a nuclear chemist and he just passed away from cancer very recently like this year I believe. >> Yeah. This year. but a world of knowledge and he helped me a lot um understanding the symbols I saw about Egypt and then you know 2019 comes along I write about this in my book um I'm sick with rheumatoid arthritis now and I'm been on chemotherapy for like six seven years I'm down to 150ome pounds walking on a cane and now I'm migrating to a wheelchair there. That's where I was in 2019. Diana and Tim were in the Vatican archives in 2017 and I was supposed to go with them, but I couldn't. I was sick. And they were >> Oh, you were supposed to go on that trip? >> Well, it could have been arranged. Yeah. It was all about me. The the whole thing when they went there, they had a ceremony in the Vatican. >> It was supposed to be a ceremony for you. >> Yeah, they had a ceremony. They put my picture in the picture of the pope on the outside of the archives and then they placed my photo between the books of Galileo and Capernicus. >> Really? >> Yeah. It'll be there forever. >> No way. >> Yeah, sure did. >> Do you have you have photos of this? >> I do. >> Could you send that? >> Wow. This is amazing. >> Yeah. So, >> so and who was was Tim Taylor prompting them to do this ceremony or >> I think Diana's connection to the Vatican and this the lady I speak about you know here I come in 201 um 12 having an experience with this lady this beautiful glowing lady that um boy that was something too because that was at the end of five years and I was fighting the government the those services for my sanity. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but real quick, so cuz you were describing your first experience that >> right, >> you know, Okonnell helped you get out >> and so you're you're around the pyramids. You you see the sacred geometry which >> you know uh Dr. uh uh Robert Gilbert helps you kind of decode, right? >> Did you decode anything? Do did you notice any sort of messaging? >> Yeah, I did. I started seeing likeness in their the the way they portray their deities is um in the whole matrix of the thing you know it's like when Jesus was born it said uh an angel came and said go to Egypt right well we don't realize that Egypt was controlled by Greece for 500 years before that right so perfect fit for him to go there and to grow up there and when you start seeing the similarities between the two that it's pretty much the same thing and and >> stories between two and >> him between the trinity Jesus and the trinity and then raw and Horus and the whole >> they have a tri triad there right >> but their their deities are uh portrayed as animals and birds forces of nature This is what Dr. Gilbert spoke about that is it's all about everything nature and humanity. And so when then you read the story of Ezekiel and the will within the will, right? He walks between two of the cherubam. It says and he walked between them and there he met an angel, right? And what was it? It had faces of animals and only one part human. So is it's it's not like grandma with wings and a beautiful robe, right? It's just these things are creatures and they're it's always um >> Did you see these creatures? >> No, I I only I've studied them. >> Okay. >> I saw the creatures. Yeah. I drew them. >> Yeah. when they were um little glowing beings about this doll. >> But those seem more of the variety of the extraterrestrials or aliens people kind of experience. >> Well, they say that until you read Daniel chapter 10 when it talks about an angel that he saw. >> And when I described this little being, I said he looked like glass. He was sh so shiny. His whole body was glowing like he had a suit on that was gleaming like glass. Did you see this alien in the in the craft or >> I saw it standing from me to you from me? >> And this was in the on the in like the woods. >> Yeah. >> Near your house. >> Yeah. And I I wrote about this and um >> and he had a little triangle >> triangle on his chest. Yeah. Funny. There's a triangle right there. Right. >> Oh, there you go. I was thinking that when you were like, "Look at my little pendant." >> I was like, "Well, was that an homage to the triangle from the alien being?" M that was from NASA [laughter] >> and two I have multiple videos and and if we go skywatching at some point you'll see the phenomenon will always try to line up in a triangle or in threes. >> Interesting. So it's like maybe the trinity. >> Yeah. It's telling us something right. What is that? I I don't know. I'm It's all speculation. I'm learning. >> What else did Robert Gilbert tell you? because he did seem like a person who was very tapped into >> Oh, yeah. >> kind of deeper esoteric truths. >> Yeah. A lot. I learned a lot from him that that helped me understand that this world is so far more complex. For example, um he described pendulums. >> If you go to Egypt and you dig in the soil there, the most artifacts that they find under the ground in Egypt are pendulums. >> Is that true? >> Yeah. That's the most frequent artifact. >> That's the most frequent. They find the millions of them. And so he explained to me what they knew and how the the people that set Washington up, they did the same thing. Why they have an obelisk in Washington, why they have one in Central Park, why is there one in France and in England? They have And they went to Egypt and got those things and brought them back and stood those stones up. Well, you know, uh, if you look at, uh, Charles law font, you have all this kind of Freemasonic symbolism around DC, >> and that is definitely derived from ancient Egypt. In fact, >> I've been inside of this like Freemasonic temple in DC >> and and by the way, I'm not a Freemason, and I wouldn't be saying this if I was, obviously. >> Um, >> but like it's it's just you might as well be in like an Egyptian temple or something. It's all Egyptian symbology. >> Yeah. >> And so you think there's like a link between >> I think there's it's a big mystery, but there's a link some Yeah. some way or another. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So interesting. And then the other connection for you with ancient Egypt is so you're around the pyramids and you see these symbols but and then you obviously encounter these beings but later you encounter the lady, >> right? And she describes herself as Hatheror. Is that right? >> Well, that was one name she used. She she said she had many names. >> And u she had been called many things throughout the world. In other words, Diana, Deer, Isis, Haththor, Hera, um the Virgin Mary, everything. She's had many names throughout >> history and by every culture. And the way she explained it to me helped me understand uh religion in a different way. How people conceive, you know, like the the Dowist or the the Muslims or the the Catholics or whoever >> uh only imagine God in their minds. We all do. We imagine that and it turns into an ugly thing because religions tend to think they have the skiibby on God and therefore we going to go to war with you because you don't believe like us. That's that's the problem that has to stop. This is the message she told me that she had many names throughout history and that God is God and we don't know what we think we know and we need to sit back and reanalyze and you know be good children and or we're going off the cliff. >> That's kind of the thing she told me. [gasps] And she told me about the missiles that was in 2012. M but um there was so much there. I came out of the in 2012 telling it like right away what that that she explained to me. >> And you received a prophecy about 2026 as well, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And what was that? >> Well, she said um and I had no idea what it meant. still don't other than she said that when the star of Regulus which is a blue star when it appears red on the horizon at the dawn uh before the sun comes up and the gaze of the spinx in other words I saw it in a vision the whole thing you can see the spinx facing east and this thing's just cresting the top she said when that happens that will uh be a sign that ushers in a new knowledge for humanity. >> So, does that mean the return of Jesus or the return of Christ consciousness? It could. And I uh think that's possible. [sighs] Uh but [snorts] it's it marks a sign, she said, to where the the darkness would be exposed and the truth would be revealed. M so >> I think we're going to learn something over the next couple of years that you know and this was 12 years ago I said this 13 years ago 2012 >> right and how when these missiles started flying and the orbs started appearing that got a lot of attention on me real quick >> yeah I'm it's funny I'm caught between two minds one is you know I think even the book of Matthew it's something like >> nobody knows other than God, >> right? >> Uh paraphrasing, but yeah, nobody knows the day. Um and then on the other hand, it does feel like just this gestalt sense of like things are getting weirder. >> Yeah. >> Dark truths are being revealed ongoing. Feels like it's already started. >> Um and it feels like we're on the verge of some sort of paradigm shift. >> Yeah, we are definitely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I agree with that 100. And I I think everybody sees something coming and a new knowledge just coming and a new shift that um things that I know that um imagine a world without oil. >> So you think we're going to have free energy at some point soon or something? >> Imagine a world without rockets, >> right? >> So that kind of knowledge alone would change everything, >> right? all of humanity and so that's in our future. Well, that was Thomas Towns and Brown's vision, you know, a world beyond rockets that, you know, he had this model of electrogravidics which connected electromagnetism and gravity which, >> you know, in kind of our standard physics is, you know, we don't have a link between those two things, >> right? And uh if you were to get a link, if the input was pure electromagnetism or you know electrical and the output was some sort of gravit gravitational perturbation um that that that would be paradigm shifting. I mean you get well beyond what SpaceX is which is extremely inefficient. you know, most of I believe the the Starship, their latest rocket, is I think it's 5,000 metric tons and a an extremely high percentage of that I mean, the payload capacity of it is like 150 tons. So, that ratio alone, >> it's all fuel. The whole thing is fuel, right? >> That's not efficient. That's not >> alien interstellar space travel. Doesn't make sense. >> Well, I imagine a day that we won't need those things. >> In fact, they probably already had that. Do you think they do? >> I think so. >> Really? >> I think it's possible. >> So, why not? Cuz why not let it out then? >> Because it it would change everything. >> It could it could create It's something that has to be given slowly. >> It's too disruptive. >> Too disruptive. Yeah. Imagine >> it would definitely be destabilizing for institutions. >> Exactly. you know, if you had, say, right now we're paying, I'm just going to throw fake numbers out there, but $15, you know, per kilowatt hour for electricity or whatever. If that reduced to 10 cents per kilowatt hour, >> a whole lot of institutions would kind of crumble. Corporations would experience a lot of like for the people who are like there it wouldn't, you know, destabilize things. I think that's crazy. I think it would I think it would be very positive. Well, it would be in the end, but imagine the oil tankers, the thousands of them or refineries and all the jobs involved with it. So, >> sure. >> Yeah. But then imagine the abundance on the other side. >> All of those people their quality of life of life would be dramatically better. Yeah. >> So, >> so is that the new knowledge? I don't know. But I think that is a is a there's a whole lot of things that are going to come forward that have been hidden from us. And the main thing is the truth that we're not alone. >> Yeah. I mean that well that's clear to me. You know I think that's that's definitely a thing. [laughter] >> And so I believe next year we'll be closer to that than ever. >> Yeah. >> And the word apocalypse, by the way, you know what that means? the unveiling. >> Yeah. To to reveal a secret. >> To reveal the secret. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's all. And and people think when you hear that and if you look on Google, it says the ultimate destruction, the end. You know, it's lying to us. That's not what the word means at all. It means >> to reveal that which has been hidden. >> And it's it's the veil thinning. And I think for some people that will be very good and for other people will be very bad. It depends on your orientation to it, right? And I think it does have this connotation of, you know, the beaselbub coming down and breathing fire onto everybody, sorting people and whatever, but like >> I think if you were oriented in a in a good way spiritually, I, you know, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad for you. I also don't even, you know, we're talking about it like it's one, you know, crazy event with these like divine beings. Maybe it's like a slowmoving event. >> That's exactly the way I see it. It's not like snap your fingers and something. We're not going to wake up on Easter or whenever that time happens. >> Yeah. >> I'm torn by the way because for eight years I wrote and talked about this alignment being in September >> somewhere in the fall cuz that was the date given to me by some people into astrology. And then they come back right when I go to write my book and say, "Oh, we made a mistake. It said Easter." And I thought, well, that sounds plausible because the lady's always coming around Easter. I have this and saying experiences every year at Easter. Are you still having them? >> Yeah. >> That's amazing. So, you still speak to every year. >> And you think it's the same, the Virgin Mary, Hatheror, Demiter, you think all of these? >> I think it's the Sophia, >> the wisdom, the Holy Spirit. >> So, that would be kind of the Gnostic version or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's who I think that this this being is. It was a spirit and it was definitely holy in her presence, right? And so and and and she physically impacted me because the wind blew me backwards to the ground. It was such a blast of wind that blew me down. And I started researching that >> and the the word spirit is the wind, right? And the word Holy Spirit is the breath of God. >> But it was the wind that affected me and the power from it. This this cow came over me. But the wind pushed me back. >> What does she look like? looked like the most beautiful 35 40 year old woman you've ever seen >> just glowing and um typical Virgin Mary apparition type thing or >> and you know this thing this this this spirit appears in every country. It appeared to the Native Americans in in the Wild West back you know they called her the white buffalo calf lady. The Egyptians called her hathor and earlier before met and the birth mother the the the creator in proverbs in the Bible chapter 8 and n talks about wisdom it's the name of the chapters and it talks about and she was created before the earth was created before the beginning of time. Wow. So who is she? I don't know but that's my thought. What what was the feeling that came over you when you saw her when you see her regularly? >> It's uh [sighs and gasps] when I first saw her, it was it was very impactful because the the cow ran me over and so I had this extreme fright to start with and then I land on my back and I roll over to get up and run and there is this beautiful woman. So I went from extreme fear to oh my god, what is this in front of me? >> Is the cow running you over part of the whole thing? Is that >> that was part of the her coming at me. She came at me at night out of the darkness as a wind the wind hit me and as I'm going backwards to the ground I see a translucent cow run over top of me and I could see stars up through the thing. >> I'm like, "Oh my god." And and I was frightened so bad. I landed on my back and I turned to get up and run and there's this woman about from here to that camera 3 ft off the ground hovering. And she looked at me and she said, "You know why I'm here?" [sighs and gasps] And I'll tell you why she said that. Because five years had gone by 2007 to 2012. And I had been beaten down and broken by the community. My children were falling apart. the schools, the teachers were calling them to the side, is your dad crazy? We hear about all this, are you all right? Somebody from there called social services on me and I had to fight to be at home with my children. It was that bad. So five years of that, I walked out on Easter, Saturday night, Easter of 2012. Sunday morning is Easter, right? And I shouted to this guy, "Thank you for saving me. Thank you for healing me, but you've ruined my life. Now my children are affected and I and I have caused them great harm and and I'll never speak about this again. Even though I had the desire, they put this in me like the famous movie Close Encounters where you see he's making a mashed potato mountain on his in dirt and he's throwing it in the wind and bushes and he's creating devil's sour, right? He didn't know what it was, but it was in his head. So, I was that guy. I had to tell everybody. And the more I told it, the more trouble I got myself into. >> And what you're referencing with your family is Junior, your son, who had gone looking for you. Yeah. >> Also saw beings, was really shocked, >> right? >> And what he experienced. >> It was a community that caused him to want to leave home. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah, you [clears throat] 17 years old and my right hand it was with me everywhere I went and we come home telling the world about it and now the whole community has come on us and so 5 years into it I'm out telling the heavens I quit I'll never talk about it again and then she appears and says you know why I'm here this is your burden you must bear you have to tell what you know and if you do I will allow you to video record and film my presence and share it with others. >> The the lady said that >> she told me that. >> And are you going to >> Well, let me tell you, from 2007 to 2012, I had zero data. I was out every night with a camera trying to get pictures to save myself from the community, right? The more I tried, the less it would let me film it. It'd be hovering in the trees behind my house. I'd pull the camera out and it would vanish. >> Yeah. every time. So, I was angry about that. I'm trying to prove myself sane. And my child is now left home because the community has has just been tough. So, um, she's like, "You're not going to quit. I'm going to help you." So, from that point forward, I started being able to film it and sharing it with anybody. And I've amassed terabytes and terabytes of data, video, photo, audio, and um never a picture until 2012 when she came. >> Why do you think these guys from NASA are showing up at your door? We mentioned Tim Taylor earlier. He's a NASA mission controller, but Hal Pavvenmeer also showed up originally. And I think you Ryan, your son, mentioned that kind of at the end of his life, you realized that he was both CIA and NASA. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so what do you think their interest in all of this is? >> Um, [sighs and gasps] and there are a lot more NASA guys. That was two of them really. In fact, I had dinner with Hal's wife this weekend. She came from Florida >> to Chris Junior's wedding. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. We love them. And uh but there are a lot of other NASA guys that I'm currently talking with. >> Several one tells me wherever I go, but they're all interested. >> They tail you wherever you go. >> They're they're with me. >> Really? >> Yeah. Usually traveling with me. Somebody associated with that. Yeah. >> What do you think they want? >> They all want to study it. They want to know and they observe it with me. They I take them out. We You know, we do a lot of work. >> Are they with you in Austin, Texas? Well, no, but they wanted to be. [laughter] I only have one night and my wife's friend traveled with me because she was at our house and her kids are right down the street. >> Uhhuh. >> But, uh, usually I go nowhere without somebody with me. >> For a reason. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I've had some things that that um caused me to want to have somebody with me all the time. What happened that caused you to want to not leave, you know, go anywhere on a company? >> Um, well, I've been threatened a few times by different ones and I was at the PSI games this year. Sigh games. I call it PSI. Sigh games. And um came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. >> What? >> Yeah. Has something with drugs on it. tried to get me in a van with no driver with no tags on it and security had to come. They had to call the law on her. >> Yeah. So >> crazy >> crazy people. >> Yeah. I I imagine you attract a lot of nutty people >> big time. >> What do you think the Vatican knows about all of this? If they had a picture of you and they were doing some ceremony about you and you were supposed to come, what do you think they think of you? Well, I can share a couple photos of you for that, but um I got three pictures, several quite a few paintings that they have in the Vatican that Diana sent me from there. and Pope Francis uh she said to tell me that they know that they're angels >> that uh they don't mean to harm us, but their energy if they get excited can cause harm to a human. So just be careful and try to ask it not to get too close to you. And these three photos or paintings show um orbs with angels in them. That's what they told me. >> Yeah. Because you know, you have St. Francis of Aisi. >> Yep. >> Who she writes about in 13th century Mount Lever in Italy, >> right? >> Brother Leo is right next to him and he sees this uh angel. But if you look at the original Greek translation, >> it's a flaming torch. Yep. >> She thinks it's this UFO experience and that the stigmata he receives, these wounds on his hands are actually electromagnetic damage. um that like you know Gary Nolan or somebody studying kind of modern experiencers interacting with UFOs might just say oh that's like an electromagnetic burn or you like you see it in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You see the the burn on his face. >> I got I got um Yeah, I got radiation burns. Plasma radiation. That's what NASA told me it was the uh >> So you got you also got plasma radiation burns? >> No, I didn't. But I was warned a million times by how Bob and Meyer and different ones at NASA kept calling me honestly over and over. Don't let them get too close. Don't get too close to them. The how was telling me that they knew the voltage was like 33 million volts in one of these things. And if it got near me, it would kill me dead. So that they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA. >> They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. They just don't share it. Right. >> But so who is this like team like between CIA and NASA that knows a lot about angels? >> Well, I don't know that. But I know the the NRO is the ones that have the keys to this thing. >> Really? And why do you think that? >> Cuz they have the keys to all the satellites and all the eyes on the sky. And they're the ones that every rocket when it goes up, right? They observe every aspect of that rocket >> for reasons, for mechanical reasons, and for a surprise visit that happens pretty much every time they launch one. >> Do you think that rockets attract UFOs? >> That's what I'm saying. Every time they send one up, it attracts them and they'll come up and look at it if it has weapons on board. >> Does Tim Taylor know Elon Musk? >> Yeah. >> Do they work together? >> Um, for sure. Yeah. >> Did Tim ever tell you that? >> Well, he mentioned his name, but he didn't say he worked for him. But he he controls all the launches. >> Controls all the launches. >> Tim does. He's the launch guy. He's he's the dragon. His console is called Dragon Control. >> And he controls all of the launches out of Cape Canaveral. Or >> he's the guy. He's the one. And I'll tell you what he does >> when they fire a rocket up, right? Mhm. >> They have these big groundbased cameras like on a World War II um battleship where they sit on a gun and they could turn a handle and the gun would go around and you know they could control this thing they're sitting on. Well, they have big binoculars on a like that and they can get on this thing and follow this rocket up and they got it to about 50,000 ft. Then it gets blurry. So at that point it's intercepted by a WB-57 run out of Houston by a good friend of mine which is National Reconnaissance Office works with Taylor. So his crew is up there at 50,000 ft and it intercepts the rocket. So they film it with seven cameras on that thing where it goes right on up. When it gets up to 100,000 ft, then it's intercepted by F104 star fighter equipped with another seven or eight cameras on it. And so it trails it right on up until it runs out of sight of it. And then the satellites take it over. And the only ones that can look at the satellites are these NRO guys. >> And Tim walks out of his control into a private room where all the screens are. So his eyes are on all that. It's >> fascinating. >> Yeah. >> How did he get into that line of work? Because if you read Launch Fever, I don't think he's traditionally credentialed or trained. >> Well, my friend from Houston told me he helped him get that position. >> And who's your friend from Houston? >> I can't say. Okay. He lives right down the road from here on a big on a big ranch right out here. Yeah. >> Well, I'd love to meet him. Yeah, [laughter] >> we can figure it out. >> I'll show you a picture of him later. >> Okay, cool. Um, wow. Fascinating. And, um, cuz Tim also works at Aerospace Corporation, right? >> Yeah. >> And what do you think the link is between NASA and Aerospace Corporation? >> I know a lot of those guys are NRO. >> Okay. Interesting. >> And they carry Blackberries everywhere they go. >> Blackberries? >> Yeah. >> Not iPhones, Androids. They have all that, but they have Blackberries. They do their business. >> Do you think he's a time traveler? >> I think it's entirely possible. I, you know, honestly, I I can tell you a story about him. >> Yeah, >> it's in my book. >> Um, I think it made it in. I wrote 140,000 words and we only published 85 and that was what they recommended for the right size of book, right? So, but in one of the stories I talk about Tim right after we came back from Zanesville, Ohio. He came to my house and uh we had this famous tree on my yard that caught fire. This a video out on the internet. You can see Chris Bledo burning tree. Well, we had this tree that just spontaneously combusted in the backyard. It rained for two days. Grounds wet. Everything's wet. And uh my wife and I walk out the back door at 9:00 and this poof, it erupted into flames and was shooting 20 15 ft up through the tree and uh she put it out three times with a hose pipe and kept reigniting itself and uh so that got the attention of everybody and Tim wanted to see this tree. So he's at my house come I picked him up at the airport. He goes to my daughter's homecoming game that night. She was a little homecoming princess in the 10th grade. Now she's a has a double masters from NYU. So that's been long time ago, right? We walk up to this tree and having just a good, you know, conversation and all of a sudden the one side of the tree is open where it burnt from the inside. The tree caught fire in the inside and burnt a hole through the side of the tree. And when we walked up to it, he walks up and puts his head right up to look up in the tree. And all of a sudden, this snake comes out of the tree. This silver snake. And it was perfectly I never seen anything like it ever. It was silver as a silver automobile. Perfect color. He jumps back and he grasps for air. Oh my god. Just like that. He looks at me and he was short with words and he said, uh, he said, 'You know, my grandmother is full-blooded cho tall Indian and I went to to um school on a minority grant. My grandma told me if I ever saw a silver snake, it was part of their their history, right? She said it would be a message from God. And he saw that and told me all about it. But I watched his reaction and it it got the best of him when that snake come out of that tree. >> And you saw the snake. >> I was standing beside him. >> What do you think the message could have been from God? >> It was a message from him for him to understand this whole thing was from God somehow another. M [clears throat] H and how does one of the most interesting things I wonder is if you read American Cosmic or talk to Diana Pulka, it's almost like they visited the Vatican archives. He figured out a way in before she had gotten there and then they were sort of celebrating him at the Vatican Observatory. Like it why would the Vatican Observatory know who a random NASA mission controller is? It makes me think he is not a random NASA mission. >> No, he's not a random guy at all. He's um let's just say he runs with the biggest. >> How do you think he has a connection with the president? >> Yeah, absolutely. He briefed he briefed Obama on me. That's where this come from. >> He briefed Obama on you. It came from him with a a dinner napkin from Camp David, Maryland. >> And you're sure of that? >> Positive. >> And did he tell you that he briefed Obama? >> No, he didn't tell me that, but I know that's what it means. >> Because of the the uh letter head. >> Yeah. And where it came from. >> Bob Maguire, who is I think former Intel and a friend of yours, came on the show and he said, "I that that cannot be faked." Right. >> That definitely came from Camp David. Yeah, >> it's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Bledsoe. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. There's only one way you can have that napkin cuz it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor. By Tim Taylor. And the only person at that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh my god. The letter to me is ironclad proof that Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama >> via Tim Taylor. >> Yes. >> You might think he was trying to throw you off the trail if he said, "I briefed the president and was bragging or whatever, but found it out independently." >> Right. I found it out. I didn't know what it meant, but I knew that it uh he told me he just returned from Camp David and it was at Christmas when he gave >> Oh, so he told you that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Wow. And he said, "I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that uh nap." >> He said that. Yeah. Okay. So, he did tell you that. >> But he didn't tell me. He briefed him. But he did give me the napkin and the >> and this. Yeah. >> And you believe him? >> Yeah. Had no reason not to. >> You know, >> have you ever caught him in a lie? >> No. >> Ever? >> I wouldn't. Not that I can recall. >> Everything he said has either come out to be true or you're waiting for confirmation. >> Right. Right. >> Wow. Have you independently verified >> some of what you told me? Yeah, 100%. >> Is there an example of that? >> No, but it's just, you know, it'd be like it's just so hard to pinpoint any one thing. >> Sure. Or like I don't know some of the things about how the NRO or NASA work together. Have you been able to verify anything? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you think that the Big Dipper or Ursa Major has anything to do with the UFO phenomena? You've said that you've seen UFOs come from that constellation specifically. >> I have a Yeah. But you know, I've learned since then it it it that doesn't matter. >> It's wherever I look. I can take you out at night and face one certain direction and only have a hole to look through that direction and it'll come from there. >> We can turn in any direction and focus there and that's where it'll come from. >> So, do do you think the Vatican and the president and whoever Tim Taylor, you know, the hammer, do you think they're all coordinating in some way? Like this archangel, the Vatican and the president or what do you think the connection is there? I don't have a clue. [laughter] I don't know. I'm just telling you what I was told, right? >> So, I've been told a lot of things, but he told me about the movie The Adjustment Bureau and the story about the hammer. >> Yeah. Have you ever watched the Netflix show Dark by any chance? No. >> Do Do you think that you you mentioned >> uh Tim's grandmother being Native American? So, is he a time traveler? I know where he came from, right, as a young boy, which is >> well, he told me the story about his upbringing, his Native American grandma. And >> so I would I'm just answering that question you asked earlier. Is he a time traveler? I don't know. I just know he told me and shared with me his childhood. So, >> did he say anything else about Thomas Towns and Brown? >> Not a lot other than we went there. we went to uh in a conversation about his his uh daughter and that he was actively and I actually have the manuscript saved on my phone. He shared with me that he was working with her on >> on this book >> on that book. >> Whatever happened to the book? >> I don't know. But I know I have the manuscript that they were writing. >> Oh, I I would love to read it. [laughter] Whether they were publishing it or ended up publishing it, I I don't know if they did or not. >> What was it going to be about >> about their father? Her father and his work and Tim's input confirming it. Oh, >> and Tim definitely knew Towns of Brown. >> Yeah, he knew his daughter had caught her when I was there with him. >> This is crazy. >> Yeah, >> this is so interesting. >> Yeah, >> I want Are you still in touch with Tim? >> I haven't spoke to him. He sent word to me a couple years ago. I had to >> I I want to speak to him about towns and brown. >> He's a ghost, Tim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. His his whole life I admire him because his real life is in medical >> saving children. >> Cares more about the children and and the struggles they have and diseases and cancers and finding cures for that. I I'm I'm sort of like a part of me is like hesitant to even ask questions about him because I don't like honing in on any specific individual, right? >> But when there's a specific individual who seems like they're embedded at the deepest levels of power structures that go as high as he does, they're claiming things to you and Diana Pulka that seem kind of otherworldly, you know. I just have to be fascinated and it and both you and Diana have, you know, public, you know, followings. And so I'm like, okay, like you have to know like some of this stuff's going to get out and you're going to instill curiosity, you know, and I, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I met him once for like 20 minutes on like a FaceTime or whatever. >> Damn, you did. >> Yeah, I met him. Yeah. Um, it was so stupid in retrospect because now I'd ask him so many other questions, but like >> you were tongue tied at that moment, huh? >> Not only tongue-tied, I would because I was invested in um this rocket company and they were struggling to get off the launch pad and I normally I separate the woo UFO stuff entirely from like, you know, that world. I don't I, you know, I try not to mix them at all, >> right? But uh I was kind of desperate and I was like okay I I did read this book American Cosmic and I know that like you know there's this guy and he claims to use consciousness to get the you know rockets off the pad and so I'm like if there's anything there I know the guys I'm working with you know invested in they're not thinking about consciousness as any sort of factor component. So that was the impetus for me to talk to him and we talked about that for 20. The trippiest thing he said to me and I don't remember exactly how he said it but it was clear this was the implication is he said for you to succeed in your rocket company like you have to know what they want you know. Yeah >> and like Diana said it you know called it the sponsors and it's you know but it's the the beings or whatever. Now you know why he has a private office and then the only one with eyes on whatever comes up to that rocket. >> He's the only one with eyes on that. >> Well, he's the one at Cape Canaveral in that room. >> What where does the nickname the dragon come from? >> I don't know, but he has a tattoo on his arm of the dragon. And when I was allowed to get on base, >> I had to get a tattoo right here. Just >> it was part of the mission. >> Really? And it was of a dragon. >> Yeah. Whoa. And then you have the the Dragon capsule at, you know, at SpaceX. And I don't know if that's Do you think that's a coincidence or >> No, it was all part of it. >> Do you think so? >> Yeah. >> Um, when you were at Cape Canaveral, he was showing you around. Did he show you anything interesting? >> Yeah, a lot of stuff. >> Anything exciting or kind of beyond what you would expect just at a, you know, a normal >> I was like a kid right here. the the most secure place on the planet, Cape Canaveral. The mission control, he told me it was more secure than the White House. Nothing is that secure. [sighs] >> And last time I talked about this, I got in trouble, right? >> Really? >> Well, yeah. Uh, one particular thing I mentioned on Danny Jones podcast. >> Oh, well, you got in trouble for saying something. >> Well, yeah. Well, it it got I don't want to say it here because it got his got it it it got the algorithm killed on that. >> You said that uh the views were like, you know, it was like doing 50k a day. Oh, yes. >> And then it cuts off. You speak to some rep at Google and they're like, >> "We don't know what the hell happened here. It doesn't make any sense given the clickthrough rate, average view duration, which should basically define the video's performance." >> He goes, "The one other time I've seen this is with Jesse's David Grush video." >> Exactly. performance fell off a cliff. >> Yep. >> So, >> and he said that he said that my video [clears throat] with Bledsoe and your video with Grush, neither of them broke any YouTube rules or had any internal red flags that he was able to see. >> Yep. >> And he goes, "Whenever this happens," which has happened one other time recently with David Grush. >> Yep. >> It's basically the floor above me that I have no access to. >> Yep. >> Some something above my head that I don't know what the hell's going on. So, what the hell is going on? >> Yeah. Danny Jones said that. Yeah, >> the video got totally like cut off, throttled, >> right? >> And he was confused. And Danny, by the way, is not like a dogmatic UFO believer at all. >> It goes back and forth on the whole thing a lot. >> And he's apparently called this rep at Google and Google said, you know, the only time this has ever happened and it's the floor above us and a video's totally gotten nuked was uh Jesse Michael's David Grash interview. >> Yeah. [laughter] Right. Oh, well that happened with me and I put him in touch with my friend in Washington in the CIA and I I said, "Look, they they just killed this >> and he got to the bottom of it." But >> he did. >> Yeah. >> And he figured out that there was actual possible obstruction with >> Well, from what I heard was just something I mentioned got the attention of the news and the news called NASA and NASA's like, "God, we don't want to talk about this." >> What? This is crazy. Well, because I mean Trump just designated NASA as a spy agency. >> Well, >> and it's already it's it's you're already, you know, you're labeling a thing that's already been the case for, you know, decades, >> right? >> But this is just confirmation of that. That's what >> this is. What happened with that video with Danny still got what 1.2 or three million views? >> A ton of views. Do Do you think that um NASA has other propulsion modalities? I think they've had it a long time. >> Really? >> I know they were working on it a long time ago because I was asked to to work on which way electrons move. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> And what does that mean? And what what is it when working on it? >> Back engineering machines. >> Reverse engineering UFO. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Yep. Are the UFOs like alien reproduction vehicles that like hover and then go into space or are they like high voltage chambers that are like portals like in the movie Contact where you end up in some other dimensional space? >> Probably both of that exists. I don't know. But um and you think NASA is sitting on this stuff? I don't know that NASA is necessarily, but there are satellite groups that keep it under wraps. It's so far buried. >> According to Tim, there were two generals at the Pentagon that knew everything. >> And which general? >> Two. He didn't tell me. Interesting. Air Force generals. >> Air Force general. >> See, when you go to NASA, the mission control, when you walk in there, it's a square building with a long hallway in the very middle. And when you walk down this hallway, it's glass uh glass on both sides, right? >> And you look to the right, here's all NASA scientists and launching, you know, at the consoles. And you look to the left, it's exactly the same, but it's all Air Force people. So they have dual redundancy. Air Force over here >> and civilian on this side >> running every launch. And >> Tim's in the middle of all of it. And then once that rocket goes up, he disappears into this one little room >> that has eyes on it the whole time. >> What was the most interesting thing you saw with your own eyes at Cape Canaveral? >> Uh probably um [sighs and gasps] well, I learned some interesting things that I did or won't share. um not on here, but um I guess going into crew quarters was the greatest thing for me because when we got there, this building had been built like in the late 50s when they first started Mercury and launching to the moon, right? And only according to him, only 300 people had ever been in that building in all those years. Only 300. He said only one president, no congressman, anyone. And he said, you know, don't go around sharing this because here I am sharing it because they might get upset why they're not allowed in this place. And those 300 people would include the staff that run the place, the den mother that's been there. I met her, she'd been there 35 years and she has a small group of people. the doctor that's on that lives there with the mom, the dad, and the children. So those 300 people would be John Glenn and and Armstrong and their family, right? So their kids and the wives and all. So, a very small group of people had been in there [sighs and gasps] and I got to tour the whole place and sit where the astronauts sit and have a to sit in the boardroom and go in the doctor's offices and sit where they put their their space suits on. I got to look through all that and handle it and um it's amazing. But I was told that when you leave from here, you'll never be the same. He said that every time that thing went up, when it came back down, something came with them and it was still there. >> What came with them? >> Well, the whatever the spirit is, phenomenon, something intelligent, >> wow, >> is there. Yep. So like almost like a hitchhiker tagalong effect or something. >> They would go up and then they'd come back down but be >> be hitched with some sort of >> spiritual thing. >> Yeah. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. That's why he told me that and that's why they don't let everybody in there. >> And do you do so is your take because there's to me there's something weird about the moon landing. I don't think it's necessarily fake like, you know, not like full hoax or something, but there's something that feels very managed about our perception on it. >> What do you think actually happened? >> That's a big one cuz I've learned some things since about that. I've seen some photos of the moon and um some things I can't dare say, but what I saw makes me wonder, is it is it real? Is it an illusion? Was it put there? Tim insinuated that it was it wasn't there by accident. That it was set there. That's all he would say. They're very sly with their words. But >> I I I think that's the case, too. >> It's tidal locked, so you never see the dark side. It's 1/400th the size of the sun, but 400 times closer to the Earth >> from the sun in this sort of Yeah. perfect way. And the conventional story of how it was made makes no sense to me. >> The idea that there was some sort of proto earth and this Marslike object hit Earth or whatever like this massive object hit Earth. Part of the Earth's mantle came out and formed formed this perfect cylindrical >> primmaaccia. You don't need to be an expert in this stuff to know that that's probably not the case, right? And then parts of it seem hollow. There seemed to be caverns in it there. You know, they put seismometers on the moon. If you believe the face value story of Apollo 11, even conventional, like nobody can argue with this. They put, you know, seismometers on the moon and it rang like a bell, >> right? >> So, and then I think Gordon McDonald, who's Eisenhower's space advisor, said the moon would only make sense if it were hollow or something like that. >> It's just a strange It's a strange object. >> It is strange. And it affects our thoughts. You think it affects our thoughts? >> Absolutely it does. >> Well, you have this sort, you know, check and hide like >> lunacy, right? That lunacy. Lunatic. That's where it came from. That's right. If you go to the sheriff's department, the jails fill up on a full moon. >> Yes. Fair enough. Yeah. And I mean, you you do have, you know, obviously women's cycles affected by the by the moon. you know, the idea that it doesn't affect >> I don't want to go full astrology necessarily, but you know, the idea that it doesn't affect, you know, ecological processes or biological processes is that's wrong. So then what what is the extent of that effect? I don't know. But something I saw tends to make me think that uh that um it's an illusion or it's u is something I just can't say without getting >> What do you think it is? You think something about our souls? >> What about the backside of it? >> What do you think? Do you think there are some aliens there or beings there? >> I think there's something illuminated back there. What do you think is illuminated back there? >> I don't know. >> Is it like the John Lear like soul catcher thing? >> No, I don't believe in all that, man. >> So, what what what do you think's illuminated on the back side of the moon? >> I don't know. But, um I have to leave that. >> If you were to give a highle riddle or hint, [laughter] >> um I don't know. I just think that the backside is nothing like the front side. M >> if you find photos of it, if they're real, it doesn't look anything like the front side. And from what I've seen, there is something behind it hidden back there. >> And and Tim seemed to think that it wasn't there by accident. Just the movie. >> Exactly what he told me. It wasn't by accident. >> Was it towed into place? >> That was one of the things he >> Was it towed into place? >> Yeah, that was one of the conversations I heard. >> Wow. Do you think do you get the vibe that he has some metaphysical worldview that is more concrete? Because the average person, you talk to them about metaphysics and if they speak in a self- assured way, they're probably full of >> right? >> And they're either full of or they're really epistemically humble and they're like, "I don't know. I take these things metaphorically." And you know, >> so it's like one or the other. And then occasionally, occasionally, especially if you're a seeker like you know you are or I am, you meet somebody and it's like you have kind of a more concrete understanding of what's going on out there, >> right? >> Do do you feel like he's one of those things? >> 100% that way. You feel like that >> and you don't think he was sort of conning you in any way or >> Well, I thought that some of the things he said flew in the face of what I believe then, >> but now >> years later, you know, our thoughts change on this thing. And so some of the things he was telling me makes more sense today. >> Do you think there's a Native American connection? A lot of people, you know, I've interviewed Mario Woods on my show who uh, you know, is native of Native American descent and people say that, you know, if you have Yeah. that that that ancestry, you might be able to get in touch with this stuff a little more easily. Other people say that about Rh negative blood. Do Do you think either of those things are true? >> I think there's a possibility with the blood. I'm not sure about that. But I do know that I was a book showed up to my house that uh was sent from some folks in the government CIA and said, "Read this." And it was the Miss and I I I can't remember the whole title, but it was the ancient miss and lore of the Cherokee. >> And it was written by James Mooney in 1891. That's when it was published in 1891 by James Mooney. And the book talks about the Cherokee little People. It talks about the Thunder Boys. It talks about a missing time. It talks about all sorts of stuff in this book. And um that when they gave me that, they were particularly interested interested if I had a Native American blood in my DNA. And so I went and had all that done through Ancestry and 23 of me. Come to find out I'm 99% Irish, British, Scottish, you know. So no Native American there. Have you ever seen a UFO in a hanger? >> Nope. >> You're just seen it in the in space. >> Or on the ground. Do you think that uh the kind of you know security establishment in the US has UFOs in in its possession? They're reverse engineering them. >> Well, they're big liars if they don't cuz they've been saying it for years. >> They're really beating that drum right now. [laughter] >> They are big liars. >> Same same story for 50 70 years now. We have this. We saw that. My friend saw it. I saw a letter. Here's another letter. I saw I saw I saw that's all you hear. But you never see >> Yeah. That's what's so strange. >> Never. >> Yeah. >> Difference to me. I'm sharing it. >> You know, I tell you there's orbs there and then we go out and we see them, >> but I'm not labeling it. And >> do you feel like cuz I think on Tron Ryan's show, Diana Pulka spoke about your experience almost as if you had been like messed with or something. Do you feel like you've been messed with or manipulated in any way or >> No. Um I think the phenomena has a way of doing things to trick you. >> You know, you hear Jos right about the trickster. Well, that's not a bad thing. I think it's like the adjustment bureau. Same thing. I if if Jesse if you if you want to go this direction, it might it might trick you to make you go in the opposite direction. >> So it's kind of controlling your path. >> So um that would be >> yeah view of that. But you don't feel like um the intel world has tried to shade your perception of things in any way? >> I think they have. Okay. >> Yeah. They had from the beginning they they tried to make me believe in flying saucers and little green men. >> Really? >> Yeah. And I kept telling them, "No, it wasn't like that." >> Interesting. >> It wasn't like that. >> But that So who who was trying to kind of implant those ideas? >> Well, hundreds of people within the government. I've met hundreds >> really. >> And they all go back to that, you know, was you know, here, you know, I got labeled a religious fanatic because I said it was spiritual. I've been saying it was spiritual for 19 years. >> And so they were really adamant about, hey, like let's spin this towards this, you know, kind of alien extraterrestrial thing. >> Yeah. Constantly alien, alien, alien. What you're seeing is negative, bad. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> That's pretty crazy. >> That's not cool. >> No, it's not cool. >> So, how do you explain that? what's happening there where you have these spooky people coming into your life telling you that what you saw was alien when you know it wasn't and then you have somebody like Jim Semivan who's very high up at the CIA who seems to pro I assume knows a lot about a whole lot of national security things outside of the UFO issue >> but the UFO issue he's gone very deep on for decades >> right >> and he's being kind of an honest actor and telling you you know you experience what you experienced do you think he was you so honest with you. >> Yeah. Jim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, I have a deep uh care for Jim and he does my family as well and we've shared a lot of stuff. I know about his story and Debbiey's his wife and um so you think they're factions like how do you make sense of the fact that you have one half of Intel world spinning you're attempting to spin your story and like kind of manipulate you and then you have another half that just seems kind of like good-hearted. >> Well, it's kind of it's kind of like this. There's a group of lower level guys that have a mission to do >> disinformation push a certain narrative but you know the people I'm meeting are heads of their department not necessarily this low-level guy I'm talking the head of the director of operations like Jim was at the CIA he was James Bond that's who he was or >> director of operations. >> Yeah. Whoa. >> Jim was Yeah. >> What is that like ranking of the ran the whole northern hemisphere. Whoa. Everybody answered to him. Yeah. That's who he is. Very powerful guy. >> And his friends, I've met a lot of them from, you know, the deputy director and and when you talk to these guys in private, they pick your brain and you start learning more that um they're learning. They want to know. >> That's that's what I've come to the conclusion of. You know, everybody's like, "Oh, it's a sci up." And they're trying to, you know, manipulate blah blah blah blah. >> And I I I've not been probably in as many of these rooms as you have, but I've been in some of them, >> I'm sure. >> And I'm f they're like, they're like we're fans and we're they're like trying to piece stuff together through I used to be so afraid. I would do certain interviews. I'd break certain stories and I'd be like, "Oh, I got too close to the truth. They're going to they're going to come after me." And then now I'm like, "Oh, they're probably learning alongside me." and like using, you know, the stuff I'm learning and through open source research like for their own [laughter] or whatever. >> Well, for the most part, they're they're um they truly are people like us and they want to know, but there's a program of guys that's involved in the UFO world keeping that going. But the do you think is there some cuz you met you open the book talking about John Alexander, >> right? John Alexander also seems to show when people experience paranormal things like the Hutchinson effect. You know, John Hutchinson, California sort of, you know, metallic equipment seems to hover and like, you know, malfunction around him. It seems to have like all these electromagnetic anomalies emitting from his body. Um, you you know, other cases, John Alexander will kind of consistently show up. Um, I think he's briefed on thing like I think he knew about Rendleshim before anybody else. >> Yeah, he did 100%. John is >> What's his deal? >> John has been, let's just say, he's probably the number one researcher in the paranormal world for the US government. Has been for many, many years. >> His wife is works studying religion >> as a part of this. and he's been to 90 92 countries >> doing um research into everything from churches to ceremonies in Mongolia the reindeer herders you know the reindeer monk he they rode horses a 100 miles and do you think he has a pure agenda or do you think that >> he has an agenda to find the truth and but he he does often he'll see these things And then he'll kind of semi-debunk them. And I don't think he did in your case, but I think in other like, you know, the Hutchinson thing, he'll show up and he'll be like, "Well, it kind of works at sometimes, but it's, you know, like if you read his writing, it's often like >> it's not as magical as you think." Sort of thing. like he kind of like, you know, but John's more in line of um he don't look at the physical thing as being the the truth of it or the alien thing as being the truth of it. He doesn't see it that way. He he's more about it's more that's too easy. It's far more complex than that. >> This thing does uh it for example in the 1800s, 1700s, go back and read all the reports on UFOs, people were seeing, I read a story of a a sailing ship with glowing sails flying over London and an anchor comes out and snags a chimney and breaks the top off of a chimney. Yeah. >> A boat. A flying boat. Right. >> So, here's these flying ships, uh, sky ships they called them, for many, many years. In fact, the first report that I've heard of in America was Aurora, Texas. It was a sky ship that crashed into the wind tower. Right. >> 1897. >> And they buried an alien there. You know where they buried him? >> Where? >> In my family. Right beside my family cemetery. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> That's weird. >> Yeah. >> That is really trippy. >> The Masonic cemetery. >> What? >> Yeah. >> So, do do you have other trippy things like that in your family history? Yeah, quite a bit of stuff. Tim was the one that started that research with me way back at Diana. Yeah. >> So Tim is sort of an heir in some ways to John Alexander where he's also doing a lot of this sort of paranormal research. >> But what's so interesting to me is he has a functional job at NASA, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's part of his job. >> Wow. >> Do you think that space like our space travel program is somehow related to studying these paranormal things? Yeah. How do you think it's really >> where you heard him talk about when you were speaking about creating investing in a rocket company? It's up to them, right? >> I don't know. You know, [laughter] I I I know the history of rocketry, you know, and I know Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with, you know, other beings and literally saw like a what you could describe as a Nordic alien woman, you know, while he was testing rockets, you know, in California. uh in the Mojave Desert. I know that Tilowski, the Russian equivalent, thought he was in touch with angelic beings. Herman Oberth, you know, the the father of the German rocket rocket program. All of them thought that >> thought they were angels. Yeah. >> So, but then I also know Elon Musk, you know, kind of dismisses the whole alien thing and >> well, how Pab and Meer told me. And before I tell you that, we'll go back to the flying ships, right? In 1947, Kenneth Arnold sees uh these little chevrons flying about and they were kind of moving freely and you know half a dozen of them. And the reporter says, "Well, how did they move, Kenneth?" And he said, "Well, if you took a saucer out of the cupboard and you threw it and it skipped on the water, he said, "That's the way they look." Well, the reporter said, "Ah, Kenneth Arnold sees flying saucers, right?" So it goes out on the news. AP wire now billion plus people has it implanted in their brain and for the next 50 years what did they see? >> Saucers. >> Flying saucers. Where'd they go? >> Yeah. >> Where are they? >> Right. Then comes a triangle in the 80s or 90s. All of a sudden everybody's seeing triangles. >> Yes. >> Then I come along in 07. These big balls of fire come. Mine's like, "What were they?" I said, "I don't know. They weren't flying saucers. They were they were light. They were like orbs. And so that kind of [snorts] hung it. And from 2000 the last 19 years, it's been orbs. So our perception of something celestial and in some almost like other world platonic realm that we can't understand or comprehend is being sort of shaded by basically media by like our >> the memes that we have in our head. >> Right. >> That's fascinating. And to anybody, this is such a cool conversation to have with you because I think some people throw around the term like scop w like with you and stuff and I'm like the fact that you're saying all this stuff is like so oppos the opposite of like somebody who's dogmatically like you know >> proposing the kind of extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's like >> you're basically saying like we're in some >> limited, you know, epistemological realm or whatever and we're seeing something that's unexplained. And that's a humble claim. I don't think that's >> Yeah. And I'm not here to label it cuz I I would be lying if I told you I knew. Yeah. >> All I can tell you is 19 years of patterns. >> I can tell you that I get a lot of people that call me that want to tell me their story. I've cover my book empowers these people. And I get this little lady calls me one night. It's just for an example. >> And she's like um she said, "I saw this ball of light go by my kitchen window. Can um and I hear she said she said she's 80ome. She said, "I hear tell you're the person that would know about these things." I said, "Well, yeah. um I try to help you, you know, so tell me what happened. She said, "I was washing dishes and it came up to the window and it scared me and it went away." I said, "Well, what was going on with you right then?" She said, "I was washing dishes." I said, "No, what was your life like?" And soon as she said it, I knew it's the same story for 19 years over and over and over and over a thousand times. is my husband died >> the week before [snorts] >> and it's always the same. People start seeing this stuff. I had a near death. >> Uh my daughter died, my mom died, my son died or something >> horrible. >> I think it's always that way. It's almost like um I think about it them showing up at nuclear sites which they seem to show up at and if there was some Archimedes lever point of most leverage to shift timelines on like a glo global scale it would be there and then in somebody's life maybe you'd show up at peak highs and peak lows and sort of the the you know peaks and the valleys or something >> right >> and I I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if >> is that anecdotally your case? I mean, do you think people even in in like kind of peak states also see them? Because that's that's been my anecdotal understanding. >> Yeah, I think it's possible, right? But I do know that the majority of the people witnessing this now is different because it it's coming. It's revealing itself and there's no stopping that. It's going to reveal itself completely. uh and and it's what it's doing is cracking people's consciousness just a little bit >> makes you think you know it may not convert that person but it it they're like oh my god there is something out there so it's expanding our consciousness >> do you think other people think that you are the Messiah >> I've been asked yeah but I don't see that I'm just a poor guy that had uh has had a hard time Yeah. And uh it's not been easy. It's been a burden more than anything. And I'm just a messenger. I know that I can share this with people and after I do then it's yours. You can you can connect with it from then. So it's not like something that I have. It's something that everybody has a right to. Um, do you feel like you you have an understanding of metaphysics that's deeper than the average person's? Like is it is there some sort of thing that you can relay about how the world works? >> No, I'm still trying to figure that. But um, in a nut in a shell, I know that we're not in control. that our thoughts are completely understood by something above us that knows everything about you. It knows your heart. It knows your intentions and it will guide you or it will tear you down if you're going the wrong way. >> That's the trickster part of it. >> But is that bad? You know, it's intended for you to marry this person, not that one. It might do what it takes to get you to meet this person. >> So fascinating. >> Yeah. >> And it's your job to be receptive and to kind of ride the ride the wave or listen to the synchronicities or >> Yeah, that's what I do. I listen to the synchronicities, but it's my job is to share a truth that uh everyone's been told is not real. M and uh I I I caught so much problem from the community in 2007 when this happened. Half my family, twothirds of my family I quit speaking to my own cousins and family and it was because they wouldn't believe me or I was being accused of messing with the devil, right? And so they actively got hard on me and tried to remove my children from me. That was early on, right after it happened. And so I kind of took offense to everyone and I made a vow then. I'm going to prove them all wrong. I'm going to prove the world wrong. That's what I said. Made that. And I worked on it pretty hard for 19 years of revealing something that nobody says is real. And what that is, I can't tell you with 100% certainty, but I can tell you in 19 years of uh patterns and never no harm to me or anyone else that has experienced this, and I've shared it with thousands of people. >> Do you think that the idea of disclosure is kind of a misnomer? It's the idea that the government can disclose some sort of like metaphysical truth that they have this asymmetric understanding of. Yeah, I think we're in post disclosure. >> Is disclosure is not an announcement. They're never going to give you the secrets. You know, if they have a machine, you're not going to see it. And I wouldn't want them to because somebody else could get a hold of and it could be terrible, right? So, it's national security. They they're never going to give you that. So, they're just going to give a talk all the time. We have we seen we have disclosure is a one person at the time awakening. Suddenly you see it's real. You saw an orb. Oh my god. What was it? I don't know what it was but it wasn't an airplane and it stopped and it came up to me and it flashed me and it went away. Well, that absolutely changes everybody's world paradigm. it just is just completely changes and sets you on a different course. And so awakening or disclosure is for those there's a lot of people that's already dead. And >> so I don't think the government's going to ever announce anything. They're just going to keep telling you we have this or we saw that and make people get curious and start investigating. M what do you think people's relationship should be to your story? Because on the one hand you were cured of Crohn's disease >> and I know you've had some other physical challenges since then but that's a really major thing that kind of you were alleviated by and presumably linked to this kind of you know amazing event in in in January of of 2007. Do you think people can experience spontaneous healings and should they should they go for that or should they go for the like incremental kind of more deliberate thing like is that it it feels like catching >> catching lightning in a bottle, you know, like how how can that >> how can that happen in a repeatable way unless Jesus is real or something and can heal us? [laughter] >> Well, I said earlier maybe we have our own power to heal ourselves. We just don't know it. And um >> do you feel like you healed yourself in that instance or they healed you? >> I think they healed me and I think that they will heal uh or they can they can heal you. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it happen in Australia >> over the phone >> long distance. That's it. And magic happens at that point. And I don't claim that as me doing it. I'm just the mediator guy. I just I just present her picture to that. >> Yeah. So, you know, it's all thought and intention. Our thoughts are very powerful and our intentions. >> I know they are. Yeah, they really are. And they uh everything was once a thought. And uh I think thoughts have a much greater effect on reality than just uh thought converts to action which produces this mechanical sort of you know pinball machine which ends up doing a thing. There's clearly something else going on that I think will be proven out by science. >> I think you're right there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you think that um there's a space program involving consciousness that's deeper than because you think about you know there's this you know 17th century Swedish mystic Emanuel Swedenborg and he described you know going up into the cosmos and seeing all these you know stars and planets and >> you've had out-of body experiences and you've been to the Monroe Institute >> right >> if I was forming some you know sleeper cell space program that might be able to traverse farther than just NASA nuts and bolts craft. >> Right? >> If you believe remote viewing is a real modality, you have to believe some sort of astral space travel is also real. >> It is real. >> So, do you think there's some sort of vital program in the government that involves consciousnessbased space travel? >> I think they've attempted that and still are trying to. >> They have to have. >> Yeah. And you even watch Carl Sean's Contact and it's like that's kind of what you're touching on. >> Exactly. >> You know, >> or you you know uh Christopher Nolan who you read you watch Interstellar and then you read the physics of Interstellar by Kip Thorne and it's like >> if anybody was kind of dripped some interesting info, >> right? >> It probably would have been, you know, Nolan, >> right? And it's just so fast. It's like this fifthdimensional space that you know where you can where you can travel kind of maybe between timelines and then when you die you're able to you know traverse that. And it's sort of hard to talk about a lot of these things but that's a big one. You know I I believe when we die that based on photo evidence I have. You may have some of that that I shared with Anna. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah. In fact, it's going to come out on our pod where she shows some really interesting photos. >> Well, you see photos with people in them >> were children or animals. >> Where did I get that? How did I get those? And this was right after the lady came. And at that time, I didn't have a video camera. I had a cell phone with the flip phone, right? But I went out and bought a little pocket camera, a little inmatic, and I started taking just every night. I I I wasn't able to get anything before, but from that point forward, I did. And it's like my dog died. I wrote about this in the book. I was with Tim at Cape Canaveral for a week [gasps] and some guys from the NRO and we were meeting and had a launch and had been there all week and it was Saturday. Launch finally went off Saturday. Delayed all week. My wife knew I was coming home at Sunday morning or Sunday night. I was going to leave after the launch Saturday night. Get up Sunday morning, drive home. [gasps] So at 4:00 it was over. I said, Tim, I'm going to Fedville. So I got my car and I took off. Didn't tell anybody. Drove all night long. All night. Pulled over to rest area. It's 13 hours right from my house to there. Pulled over and took a nap. 8:30 Sunday morning, I drove in the yard. When I drove in the yard, I knew immediately that my Labrador was dead. I knew it. I knew it. I can't tell you how I knew it, but I knew it. Just came right into my mind. I saw it all. I felt it. My kids and family had buried her in the backyard three days before. Never told me cuz they didn't want me upset, right? It was like my child, this 90 lb labador, female named Nelly. I opened the front door and walked in. My wife's asleep at the front door on the in the living room on the couch. House full of kids. They've been up all weekend. They had invited all their friends. So, mom kind of would stay near the front where all the bedrooms were. for our little girl that had she's the only girl, right? So mom's doing she's doing her patrol to keep any boys away from her. That's what mom's doing. So I walk in the door and I open it. She looks up at me. I said, "What happened to my dog?" And her eyes got big and she said, "Oh my god, how did you know?" I said, "Well, I felt her." She said, "Well, she ran out in the road and got run over by a car and uh we buried her in the backyard. So I took and I thought about it all day and that night I thought she don't know she's dead. That's how I knew it because when I turned off the road right where she was killed, it just kind of felt her and saw her in my thoughts. So I took a little white candle, I went out to her grave and I lit it and I told her, I said, "You, I'll be with you again. Just go to the light." And she comes up out of her grave in a little ball of light. and I took that picture and that's how I got that. >> Wow, that's amazing. >> Yeah. And you should have a copy of it. >> I would love to see that. Yeah, we could put that up for you. >> So, what does that tell you? You know, what does that tell you? And I've got people, lots of people and children. In fact, I have a child. My wife and I lost a child. We have four, but we lost a child. And I was out thinking about him. And um this lonely orb there it comes [snorts] and I took a picture of it and and there was a child. >> Yeah. >> In the orb. >> In the orb. And this is my screenshot. >> Wow. [sighs] >> I'll show you. >> Oh my god. That's a real photo. >> That's a photo of a child and it's a ball of white. That's a real photo. >> Yeah, >> that is amazing. >> So, what does that tell you? I believe that when I think that we're in a simulation or we're in this avatar that uh we experience time because of our body, >> but beyond the body, there is no time. And I think when we die that we go back to that eternal place which is in church they tell you it's somewhere way far away but I think it's just around us. >> Yeah. >> Well there's time is created by the mind and the body and time is the most used noun in the English language but nobody knows how to define it without respect to the movement of bodies or things. It's always something defined relative to something else. So if if if you're doing that over and over again, then it has to be this soup that you're swimming in where you can't get out of it. >> Exactly. >> You're like in in water and you don't, you know, it's like this David Foster Wallace speech where he goes, "This is water." You know, it's like you're you're you're a fish in water. You have no idea what you're in. We're in this stream of time. There's no way out of it. There's no way to talk about it. And really, you know, >> there's no words for it. >> There's no words for it. That photo is amazing. Yeah. >> Can we show this to like a a NASA photo instrumentation person? >> Yeah, I don't care. A lot of them have already seen it. >> Okay. >> I tell you, I was at this just to tell you how it is with NASA. I was at I was in a Capitol Hill Club. >> Mhm. >> When the when the uh when the hearing the recent hearing that happened, right? >> Yeah. and and in fact it was Anna Brady and a bunch of those friends of hers and um without using names and um we were having ordurves with with Eric Burlson and Anna Luna, right? And afterwards we went out and did a skywatch on the the um Library Congress, right? We were up on the platform and suddenly this orb appears and for 45 minutes it did figure8s over the cap in the white house. >> So and Berles saw it. >> No, Berles weren't there. He had gone home but Anna was there. >> Was there >> and a whole group of other people. Eric Zidak from uh PG& Power. >> Um Donna Roberts from the International Space Station. She was standing next to me. uh others I can't say their name but they've come out publicly this group excuse me Tracy McIll she's a an analyst for the DOA DoD I think >> whoa >> fascinating >> so they all got to experience it while we were having dinner you were talking about NASA people >> this guy walks up and he's he gives me a big hug he said Chris I'm a huge fan and he introduced me to his son. We'd never met, right? But he was one of the highest ranking guys at NASA. He walks up and hugs me and says, "I'm a huge fan of yours." >> NASA was Yeah. So, >> why is NASA publicly >> It's their policy. >> The people there, the people there are just like me and you. It's so funny because it's like you see the them publicly and it's like they're doing this thing on three Atlas and it's like the photo is the resolution of it's like you're looking at a lamp post like a lamp, you know, on on on a it's like a street light or something like it's horrible. And amateur astronomers are getting better stuff. Exactly. >> And then privately they're going to you saying we're we're big fans. >> Yeah. >> So interesting. >> Ain't that crazy? >> It is crazy. It's a little frustrating. It's like can you close can you split the >> close the gap a little bit between your public and your private you know >> perception. One thing Howal told me how Bob and >> my >> we were we loved him. My children loved Howal >> because he became you know my dad died in 2013 and he howal came in 2008 and >> you just showed up at your door, right? >> Yeah. Knocked on the door in your door. >> And so he'd come three or four times a year and stay a week at the time. And uh his biggest thing was my children. He would they would bring school friends over and he'd have a big you know he loved kids so he'd pull out massed on teeth and tech tights and it was just a big party of science and he loved that. But how told me he died in 2019. He died in 2019. He was coming to our house for Thanksgiving. He and Katie [gasps] and he fell and hit his head and went in a coma and never woke up. Right. But he told me right before he died, he said, "Chris, I want to tell you one thing." He said, "I've wondered for many years." He said, "What this phenomenon is? Oh, I know all about it." He said, "You know, I've seen it all." [gasps] He said, "But we've always been on the fence of what it is we're dealing with." But he said when I I know now to me it's um he believed it was angelic. It was >> they were always on the fence of what it is. >> But [gasps] >> he observed it with me a lot and saw its nature and how it would react to certain words and certain prayer. >> And was he religious? Well, um, he wasn't religious at all, but he was toward the end of his life, he became >> Yeah. very open in prayer and stuff. >> That'll make you religious. Tim Taylor had a conversion right at the Vatican where he converted to Catholicism. >> Exactly. >> It's fascinating. >> So, that's where this thing takes you. It takes you down that that path. If you interact with it, it will. There's an apocryphal quote that's often attributed to Warner Heisenberg and uh you know he was this amazing physicist but it was also in charge of the German nuclear program under the Nazis but uh but also a much deeper philosophical guy and he regretted his kind of role in that stuff. And he says um the first sip of the bottle you know uh of science makes you an atheist but when you get to the bottom you find God at the bottom. That's where Hal was at the end. >> Yeah, that's what it sounds like. >> Yeah, exactly what it was. Yeah, >> that photo you showed me with the child in the orb, that looks exactly like in 2001 Space Odyssey at the end of the movie where Bowman >> he's, you know, going up on the ship and then he >> he ends up I don't know what happens, but there's this it's this weird bizarre sural scene and you see the the monolith and then all of a sudden it cuts to this baby hovering over the earth in this like orb capsule thing. >> Crazy, right? >> And I watched that. I remember watching that. It's one of those things where I'm like, I am too unenlightened and dumb to know what this means, but I know it means something. >> And that's what a lot of the UFO topic is. It's like the sound of the uh one hand clapping, the Zen Cohen. You're like, and it just makes you want to go further and you're like, you see something, you're like, you don't quite know what it means, but you're like that. There's something about that. They're saying this. It's a and if anybody knew kind of, you know, some deeper truths about reality, like I do think Arthur C. Clark, Stanley Kubric, guys like that were tapped into something deeper. >> And so that photo tripped me out cuz I'm like, what did what did they know? And, you know, is that photo, you know, somehow lining up with what they knew? >> I think they probably knew a lot more than they had to. And the government knows a lot more. But this everybody that's anybody in the ranks wants to see this stuff. They want to know about it. >> Yeah, I believe it. Who wouldn't? >> Yeah. >> Does the stuff you know about the dark side of the moon point towards sort of a simulated world? >> Yeah, >> it does. >> Yeah. >> Well, then then you get into these things around like why why can't we have disclosure? >> You can't say that official if you're in some like official government position. You can't you cannot say like I would I I want as much disclosure as as humanly possible but like if you're Trump that might be tough that might be a tough one. You go up there on the podium you go >> we're in a simulated [laughter] universe. >> Yeah. Right. >> You're you're you're uh everything is you're in a karmic whirlpool where you get stuck. You experience the same thing over and over again but with a different veneer. time is actually an illusion and that veneer is just >> the changing of memes that are implanted in your head by some alien thing. Like if you start to go deeper into that, >> where does that lead? Where's that lead? That leads to a very, you know, and I I think we might be headed there anyways. I don't think we need authority figures necessarily to say these things. >> I think we're [clears throat] going to I think what's going to happen is that basically the way I see this is consciousness is just one big unified field, right? It's is all one >> and everything that exists is in that one >> from the ghosts to the aliens or to the angels and to us. >> And I think we're in the process of rolling humanity is rolling into >> that next dimension. In other words, it'll be a world of um where we all in it where we see it more and it's part of our reality is shifting and when it's so fascinating. >> Yeah. It's so interesting. It's so fun to talk to you because I I think a lot of people have said, "Oh, like it's like you're too open-minded or something is the, you know, the the critique or something." And I have a lot of critiques hurled at me, so don't take that personally. >> But uh >> I I I think so. I think if you believe in the parasychology stuff, which I do, that there's some sort of mind matter connection. >> Absolutely. Then I think there's a correlation between openness and your effect on the material world or like your what you perceive as well, >> right? >> And so I think inherently there will be at times errors made due to that openness because you're sifting in in this area that is so uncharted. >> Exactly. But you're also gonna like, you know, come upon like really core deep truths. And I don't know if you can have one without the other. And so, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. 100%. >> Like, like, you know, I'm sure I've explored all sorts of like crazy stuff, but but in reality, I think it, you know, I think my worldview is actually sometimes crazier than I can even communicate via the show. And it's really about catching people up, you know, epistemically. and like taking people through this like rigorous like well let's start with the foundation like that photo is real it's been verified you know like you need to do that >> because we're in this materialist reductionist scientific paradigm >> right >> um but and and and you'll make a lot of you know errors along the way but yeah it's this really kind of hard thing because you you make one error and you get these kind of debunker skeptic types and they'll just hang on that one error for the whole and It's like they're seeing what they want to see. >> Well, the thing people give these debunkers and skeptics too much >> power. >> Yeah. >> I avoid I don't even pay them attention. >> Yeah. >> To me, they're just uninformed. >> Well, I think the thing that deflates them too is like I'll admit like I've gotten a whole a ton of stuff wrong like and I hope I hope you would admit that too. >> I have. I changed. You know, we learned. >> Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And as long as you can adapt with new information that comes in, you know, then >> this is all it's it's it's really new territory. So, >> well, there's there's no book. [laughter] >> There's no there's no vocabulary for this. None. >> It's all invisible and we have to create a vocabulary for it. And we got to put a story to it, right? As humans do that. So, you're constantly adjusting that as you go. and pulling all the information together and down the road you think well what you thought before is not correct you know so it could be different so I leave an open mind to it I try not to label it but I will go so far as to say [gasps] uh that it's been benevolent and I've seen healings from it and I know how it answers when I say certain words it gets excited >> which words The lady. >> Really? >> That's all you got to say. >> The lady. >> The lady. >> Interesting. >> Yep. When you start talking about her and I can do this. I could take a group of people outside at night. I've done it over and over and over. Take a mic if we got a big enough group. And it's pretty it's gotten pretty simple because and I shouldn't say it's simple as it's complex, but still it's happened so much that it's uh it's pretty crazy. Do you think there are pockets air pockets of consensus reality? And what I mean by that is like do you think you know the Mandela effect? >> Yeah. So this idea that you know um a lot of people in the 90s thought that Mandela died in prison which he obviously didn't you know >> do you think that reality might work more like that than we think and so certain mystical experiences happen and the people with eyes to see and ears to hear experience it and then other people walk away and they're like yeah I don't there's a thing that happened or whatever or you know or they like will superimpose some prosaic explanation upon upon the thing and reality itself is far more fractured, malleable and in the eye of the beholder than one. >> Yeah. And it's changing. It's constantly changing like the Mandela effect you you talked about. One thing that surprised me is uh my wife and I have been married 43 years, right? So our honeymoon was in New York City. We'd never been there, either one of us. We had a plan. We wanted to see see the train station, Grand Central Station, right? So, we go to Grand Central Station and we get photos and videos and we took a helicopter ride and we did all kind of things to experience New York. [gasps] And so, I'm looking at my old photos of Grand Central Station, right? Well, Google it now. It's not called that. It's called Grand Central Terminal. And it says it's never been called that. >> But yet, I got photos of Grand Central Station. written on the tag. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But you see it now. It says Grand Central Terminal. What's that about? >> Well, they you know it's the the the Flintstones, the Baronstees, Baronstein Bears, all these things where people swear that you know it was like one way and then you you look at the record and it actually looks like there's another way. And um you know that it is this really amazing phenomena and then you get into deeper studies like there's this neuroscientist Wilder Penfield >> and you realize that you there is no way of distinguishing between false memories and true memories and he shows this in with the ability to implant false memories into mice and stuff >> and then you get if there if there are these beings and any thoughts can be sort of implanted you get into really weird onlogical territory where the pass and even Schroinger himself would say a particle is measured in the present, you know, it might change its past, >> right? >> And you get into retrocausality in quantum mechanics, there's obviously spooky action at a distance, but there's also spooky action across time, right? >> It seems like um if you have two entangled photons >> and two double slit experiments run with those d, you know, entangled photons, seems like photon B that you're doing the experiment with two days in the future. If you measure that and you don't measure the first one, the measurement of the one in the future is affecting the one of the measurement in the past. >> Exactly. >> There's a great book called bioentrism that this guy Robert Lanza writes about this stuff. So you get into really trippy territory where the past becomes the present is this constricted present and but it's like an hourglass where you get have probable futures and probable pasts, >> right? And the present is this measurement sensor that is single line of code updating the past and maybe updating the future at the same time, >> right? >> And it's this very strange sort of model, but you you there's no real way to argue against that other than physical artifacts. So if you have physical artifacts around an event happening, you can argue say this is evidence that this happened this way or this happened another way. If you have conflicting physical artifacts where you don't have physical artifacts, it's it's totally one word against the other word or you can get into like numbers of people who believe one thing or numbers of people that believe another thing, but >> we have no idea how reality works. >> We have no idea. >> We have we have a very limited we are measurement sensors. And so, you know, this idea that science is some onlogical statement of truth like no, we're it's the map. It's not the territory. >> Exactly. >> It's just, you know, we see like very limited scopes of reality, >> right? >> And time is the weirdest thing of all. >> Yeah. That that uh has messed with me ever since I went there and saw that. And now everything I dig up, it says it was never called that. >> Yeah. Grand Central. Yeah. >> Sign Central Station. I was like, "Oh, of course. Grand Central Station." >> Go Google it now, though. It's It's not that >> Grand Central Terminal. It doesn't even sound as good. Yeah, it's always been named out according to this. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't know what that means, but it was really >> It really opened my eyes to how weird this world we live in really is. Yeah. H how do you juggle, you know, a lot of these concepts might seem crazy to the average person? How do you juggle just facing, you know, relationships, issues, things in your own life versus these kind of deeper celestial metaphysical truths. Those two things seem kind of hard to hard to juggle. I was talking to a friend yesterday and he he has all these teachers, you know, kind of in the Eastern tradition. He's kind of his own mystic in a sense >> and I think I can say this actually. His name is Duncan Trussell and he's a you know, I I I actually just met him. He's an amazing comedian, but I felt a kinship with him. >> And um he he talked he said his teachers all >> um said that like and these are like eastern you know kind of Buddhists say that you know they know that the celestial realm exists but they ignore it because what we need to do is here on earth we have these because this kind of karmic path laid out in front of you. So, I'm sure a lot of people have this sort of escapist orientation towards this this subject where they say, "Oh, I will well take me up on the craft, you know." So, how do you reconcile those two things? >> I don't I mean, it's like it's just it's mindbending the whole thing. I'm still grappling with with that, you know, to this very day. And I focus on um right now my main focus is on the Rosetta Stone. >> Really? Why is your focus on the Rosetta Stone? >> Because I believe that I can find I think I can get there. I think I know it's talking. I know it is. I know it's talking multiple ways. Not just telepathically because that's hard to to prove or explain, but I'm sure it's talking through frequency >> through the light pulses of light >> um with the right sensors and even some sort of Morris code or something multiple ways is trying to communicate. I've seen it. I know it. And I think one day we'll get there. You think the Rosetta Stone is trying to communicate with you? I think the phenomenon is trying to talk to us and to find that Rosetta Stone, you know, that's just >> Ros >> the language. I want to find the language of this >> of the the beings. >> Yeah. And it's it's putting it out right now. It's talking. We just got to study it. And I'm working on [gasps] a way to do that. >> Do you think their language is discoveries? Like the discoveries we make. Yeah. What do you think the language is? Do you think it's a literal symbols and hieroglyphics? Cuz people say on the crafts that, you know, they see these sort of hieroglyphics. >> Yeah, I've heard biblical texts and all on them, too. >> And you think we'll be able to decode this? >> I think we can get actual real time communication through the light and through sensors if we can gather enough data. >> How would we do this? >> Put it in a quantum AI computer. M. >> And there's two of them that I could probably get access to. >> So, you're working on this? >> I'm working on it. Yeah. >> Have you decoded anything yet? >> Not. Well, we're working on it. That's all I can >> Well, it sounds like you have decoded a little thing. >> Some some Yeah. >> Anything you can give us? >> Enough to get me going full time. >> I'm saying anything you can give us as far as hints as to what you decoded. >> Well, just that I know it's there. And um and I think we'll get there in the next four or five years. Maybe maybe longer. >> Do do you think there's something special about the pyramids that we'll learn >> soon or something? Cuz I mean one of your experiences was around the pyramids obviously Hathor. >> I'm hearing that next year that uh that something might be revealed from there. >> What will it be? Well, without getting ahead of what I was told this week, I've been invited to go down there and u be involved in something that is going to release a something that was hidden. >> Interesting. And what [laughter] something under the pyramids >> possibly >> like a like a little energy grid thing or >> I don't they didn't tell me that. >> Okay. >> They just invited me to be a part and the Egyptian antiquities authorities are part of it. M fascinating. Well, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the coffra chamber of the Giza pyramid and >> I can't say that's what it is. I can just say I got a call from the right people that >> Okay. >> wants me to be a part next year. >> Well, that's exciting. >> Yeah. >> Very interesting. >> So, I think something's coming from there. That's going to be real interesting. >> Wow. >> Like changing thought changing. Wow. >> Yeah. >> Danny Jones, it was funny. Danny Jones, I think, came into the your interview with him, maybe a little skeptical, but then he said he saw an orb with you outside of a diner or something. >> Well, he called me. He's like, "I want you on my show." I'm like, "Danny, I'd love to be on your show, but you got to do something for me. Um, I want to come a day or two early, and I want to make you a believer, not a skeptic, >> because our interview will go differently if you're a believer." and he said, 'Okay, okay. So, we flew down and my daughter and I and uh my wife and we had dinner there in Clear Water went over to Indian Rocks Beach out on the beach and he had his assistant with him with a camera and [gasps] I said, "Well, let's watch out of the ocean cuz I can get it. I It appears up out of the ocean." When I asked it, just like out of the sky, it comes up out of the sea. And suddenly, here it came. Two of them. Wow. and he filmed it. We all filmed it and was he freaking out? >> Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Uh we did that last week in in California with some pretty amazing people. >> Wow. He also Danny said he I think he cut a small part of your interview where you talked about a neuralizer like some like machine that erased your memory after seeing something. >> Yeah. I had to not talk about that. >> You're not supposed to talk about that. But there is something like that that you experience. >> I saw the patents on it. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, that's freaky if the government has some something that can do that. Let's just say they can transmit chemicals through radio waves. Can do you think they can transmit thoughts through radio waves? >> Yeah. H It's kind of creepy. Well, then then I then I get in all sorts of weird territory like what you know what is is the whole UFO phenomena some paranormal plague from the thought transmission. >> What what if you were to see this alien appeared right here and you saw it and you weren't supposed to. >> What if it can shoot you with something that would erase your thoughts that you never remember? >> So you think they can do they have the aliens can do that or the the beings can do that? You do. Why? Why are you high conviction in that? Seems like something where inherently if they can erase >> Well, I kind of learned some stuff on that and I saw the patents on it. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> And you think they're real patents? >> Well, it was the US patent office talking about it. >> Damn. >> It's kind of crazy. >> But it's hidden away. It was stuffed away somewhere. That Yeah. dangerous technology. M >> say they could shoot you with a chemical, drugs or anything from 100 yards. >> Some people a few people have come on my show saying things like that. I just I I never know what to make of it because I'm like >> it's just I don't know. >> I don't want to I want that to be true. >> That was from our original conversations. >> So with like Hal PMer >> or with Tim Taylor. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Very interesting. >> Yeah. Well, I can tell you the world is a weird place. I mean, just the fact that you went to Zanesville, Ohio, did you learn anything else about Towns and Brown while you were out there? I never knew who he was until um I got to Zanesville with Tim and then he began to unfold who he was and how he was working with his daughter to finish a book about her father. And I learned the whole story as much as he would tell me about his having visitors come and land. >> Did Tim Taylor believe that Towns Brown made real anti-gravity breakthroughs as a scientist? >> I can't tell you he believed that or not, but he felt it strong enough that he was Yeah, I think he I'm speculating. Just Yeah. Have you heard other stories of experiencers being shown a piece of metal and basically evaluated to, you know, to see how they react to the metal? >> Yeah. He told me there were only he'd only ever seen two other reactions. >> Did he mention who reacted to the metal? >> He said, but it was nothing like what I saw here. >> Yeah. Well, you know, there's a story of Warner von Braonn showing Yuri Geller a piece of metal and he says it's that's not from here. Veron Brown takes me into his personal office. There's a safe in the office. He opens the safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulls it out. It's not heavy. Says, "Uri, touch this. Tell me what you feel." Now, I put my hand on it and I say, "Vera, this is not from here." He says, "You're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet." You know, [laughter] I'm mind blown because as a child I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life and this is coming from the mouth of Verer von Brown yourself. >> Exactly. I saw some things about this metal. Um fact I had a lot of photos of it I had to delete. They were classified. Right. But I've seen some of it in real time on a l on the microscope and what I saw there were different types and but it was moving the one piece and I have a picture [gasps] where it looks like a universe swirling around and around with all the galaxies and stuff inside. That's what the metal the piece from Zanesville cut that little sliver. That's what it looked like actually moving. This other piece I saw was red. It It appeared red, but it were me thousands of little blocks, little square blocks, and they were self moving and stacking themselves. >> They were moving in the material >> like replicating or something. >> What? >> They were moving in the material. >> Yeah. This material is like living material. This is from Zanesville or >> Well, it was a piece I saw. I assume it was from Zanesville. The piece, not the red. I don't where that came from, but the green. I'll show you the green. >> What? >> Yeah. I'll show you the I don't have the video of it, but I have a snapshot of it. >> I want to see that. >> Yeah, I'll show it to you. >> That is wild. >> Yeah. [sighs and gasps] Wow. >> Moving like a universe swirling around and around. And the the um the the elements in that metal I was told had 51 elements in it. And the most classified most we can only blend at that time he told me about 15 elements. Humans could only figure out how to make 15 elements blend. But this had 51. One of the elements was human DNA. And he's like, "How'd that get in there?" And plutonium. Who puts plutonium in metal? >> Wait, plutonium. Human DNA was in this metal. >> Yep. And plutonium. >> Plutonium. >> Yep. >> What? >> And he's like, "How do they put human DNA in metal?" And then they figured out in zero gravity how to to bond ceramic to metal. And then they were able to put human DNA into the ceramic. And now your hip joints and all that, they don't fail anymore. Just all in our medical devices. Nobody realizes it as NASA's because my understanding is most manufacturing and space initiatives haven't succeeded. Like there's a company called Made in Space and it was always this kind of academic project and it never quite got off the ground. But you could you could in zero G >> do all sorts of things that you can't on the ground, >> right? So, but you're you're saying there might be some secret stuff going on. >> Oh, sure. >> Interesting. >> Absolutely. But they were able to bond ceramic to the metal and human DNA into the ceramic. That's But they couldn't do it. Whoever did it, however it was done, we can't duplicate it. Wow. Wow. Well, Chris, this is a blast, man. I love speaking to you and uh I think we could we could go on all day, but I there's so many threads I feel like I need to follow up on just from this conversation alone. So, we'll have to run it back and maybe I can come to Fagatville and >> I would love for you to >> That would be a blast, man. I appreciate you come. In fact, um >> maybe we get you to the coast like on the beach for one couple three nights and we'll get a group there and blow your mind. That sounds amazing, man. Count me in. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you for coming to Austin, Texas on such short notice. And you know, uh I know you travel a ton and so just coming out here for a day really means a lot to me. >> Believe it or not, in the last three weeks, I left Fedville, North Carolina. I went to uh Orange County, met with Sammy and a a group of guys, and then went up to Hollywood, met Margot, Robbie, and some other people. left there, went back to North Carolina, dropped my wife off, flew back to New York, met some people there, took a train down to DC, uh met a whole group of met Anna and some others there, then came home one day and I'm back here. So, it's been just burning the road up for three or four weeks. And >> wow, >> that's why I called you last night. I was so exhausted. I'm like, I'm tired. I'm beat Jesse. or I'd have been here last night with you guys, you know, going to dinner, skywatching or something. >> Yeah. No, no, no worries. Well, this was this was really fun. And no, we'll we'll do it again and I'll come your way next time. And that's a crazy schedule uh for somebody who's already gone through all the stuff you've gone through. So, >> it don't end here. It goes for the next 18 days. I'm back to New York, to Pennsylvania, to DC, and then to Wilmington for the World Forum. And yeah, I want to make sure I plug the world for him. >> Okay. What is that? >> It's um it was created by McKill go Gorbachoff back in the 90s in 95 to 2000. It was a 5-year event that ended up in New York City when they dropped the ball. >> Bono was there. You two, they did the opening. But it was the the the leaders of the world basically all came together to talk about the Y2K because they thought the world was in trouble, right? We had to have a conversation. And so now for the next five years this year until 2030, [snorts] >> they're going to convene the World Forum again and it'll be um Abby Lo speaking, Dr. Diana Hennessy Pal and there's about 30 or 40 30 speakers and they'll be we were going to have it in DC at the Omni Shores this year but because of the travel and the flights and also we're going to make it virtual this year and um I'll be speaking on there time or two but my big thing is on the 14th of the 15th 16th and 17th We're going to have a group down on the beach at Rightsville. [gasps] Um about 40 of us doing a skywatch and we're going to broadcast it through the world forum. >> Cool. >> Through the world. Yeah. >> Epic. All right. Well, go check that out. Bye, UFO of God. And um yeah, keep keep checking out cool stuff that Chris does and I really appreciate you being here, man. >> Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been too long, right? >> It's been way too long. Long time coming, but you know what? things happen in their time and >> that's right >> I think there is the questions and the conversation we had this time around is going to be you know it's much better than maybe what would have been a year and a half ago or so >> absolutely I've learned a lot since then you know I've learned that I don't know anything right >> same with me man the deeper I get the more I'm confused >> yeah that's [laughter] I say it all the time the more I learn the less I know right >> well that's that's literally true because if you think of your knowledge base as say it's like a sphere. Um the sphere grows and then the the questions are are the space around the sphere, >> right? >> So the questions are going to grow at an exponent of the sphere growing, >> right? >> And so you the more you know, the more you know, you don't know, >> right? >> And so yeah, I think the most knowledgeable people I know are the most epistemically humble and they're like, I don't know, you know, because it just gets more and more confusing. >> It does. Like I say, there's no language for this. So, >> no, >> each step you got to come up with something different, you know? >> Yes. But it's like if you if you're getting if you're going into kind of higher dimensional spaces or like where there's more variables or more information, you do just have to have uh a better sensor like a you know, you need to you know, you need to be able to audit yourself better. And uh so as [clears throat] long as you can do that, >> I learned that a long time ago, >> you know, just admit you don't know, >> you know, don't label this thing and [gasps] and I try not to because I can't tell you 100% certain anything. None of us can. Nobody can. >> Mhm. >> I can tell you it's it's it's magical. It's been beautiful and it's real. And I'll leave it at that. And I can share it with others. And if I can't, my children can. >> Yeah. >> They have it in them the same. Do you think there have been any attempts to censor you on any other media or podcasts? >> A lot. >> So like like how so? >> Well, >> and what's the motive? And Yeah. And what's an example and what's the motive? >> I think that um there's the narrative is it's dark and ugly and e evil. Leave it alone. >> Yeah. But you have such a positive healing story. Well, and that's why >> and then uh Oh, it's they want it to be this like >> dark and ugly. Don't don't mess with it. We might lose control of the people if you mess if so they don't like me sharing this at all. >> Spirit, >> I've been told that a thousand times. >> Yeah. >> I've been told two or three times, you're you're doing disclosure. >> Yeah. >> Don't do we're going to do you're getting ahead of us. >> Yeah. any any examples of censorship that you've like >> Danny Jones >> really >> that video and a whole lot more >> which what did Danny Oh Danny Jones is the the videos getting throttled >> yeah that was censorship >> that thing was going to 150,000 views >> what was it specifically that you think got it >> that was me mentioning about some technology at mission control >> okay >> and I I want to say that again. >> Okay. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. That's wild that >> Yeah. >> And that's crazy. You backtrack. You kind of are back channelneled and you figured out that NASA was literally censoring. >> Yeah. >> Google or whoever's controlling that. >> Yeah. >> But they sent the word. That's what I was told. >> There there has to be a connection there. Um >> it's about a technology. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean uh Immaculate Constellation, you know, which came out in the Shelonburgger, you know, testimony, you know, this this November 2024 hearing. Uh Immaculate Constellation had like a search spike when David Grush came out in I think August or September of 2023. >> So, it's like how do you you can't make that up, right? you know, and if if that's the case, that's like, you know, >> it's kind of what happened with me. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. Yeah. And then I think there's a manipulation of Google Trends because that then this guy Rob Jones uh who I've gotten to know a little better since then and seems very high trust, high credibility. Um he uh he found the spike and then the spike got deleted. Yeah. >> So, it's like if you're if you're telling me that Google doesn't have >> some sort of back door around special programs being named, >> they have a connection with the DoD around that. You're crazy. Like, you're the conspiracy there. Like, come on. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah. And it happens to me all the time. >> Yeah. >> I would have sold twice as many books already. Guarantee you. They've cost me a lot of book sales because of >> um Chad Banning or >> Yeah. Well, I think you're I think it's piercing through. I think I think you know a lot of people uh love your story and are reading your book and I you know whatever censorship may or may not be occurring I I I don't think it's really you know hampering you in a in a serious way. >> Right. Well, we're pushing through. Right. >> Yeah. They can't keep the light out, right? The light gets too cracks and >> Yeah. Well, that's this whole this whole subject. It's like, you know, you do don't don't take my don't distrust everything I say or you say or anybody else like that there's the world is I think shifting in this sort of >> 100% >> serious way and like you know I I I I fundamentally believe that and I see it and I feel it. So >> that's that new knowledge that's coming. >> Yes. Well, on that note, >> thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate you. >> Absolutely. Thank you, brother. >> Cool. >> Absolutely. >> All right.

Short Summary​

Key Quotes​

Detailed Summary​

Chris Bledsoe's Transformative 2007 Encounter​

Timothy Taylor: The NASA Mission Controller and Time Traveler​

Thomas Townsend Brown and Anti-Gravity Research​

Exotic Materials from Zanesville, Ohio​

Consciousness Experiments at Monuro Institute​

Medical Applications and Vivx Biotechnologies​

Orb Phenomena and the Nature of the Phenomenon​

The Moon's Artificial Nature and Origins​

Rocket Launch Surveillance System​

Spiritual Encounters and Apocalyptic Prophecies​

Government Connections and Notable Figures​

YouTube Suppression and Censorship Allegations​

Science, Reality, and Disclosure Philosophy​

Vatican and Religious Connections​

World Forum and Public Events​

Family Backlash and Personal Challenges​

Consciousness Research and Scientific Theories​

Full Transcript​